From Homeless Addict to Treatment Center Director : Allen Kharlip

Allen Kharlip is an experienced Clinical Supervisor at addiction rehab Toronto, dedicated to providing support, guidance, and hope to individuals struggling with substance abuse and addiction. He has a strong background in addictions counseling, group facilitation, and case management, he is passionate about helping others reclaim their lives and achieve lasting results.He holds certifications with the CACCF which includes his ICADC, CCAC, and a diploma in counseling from Vancouver College, which have equipped me with the knowledge and skills necessary to address the complex challenges of addiction. His training and years of practical experience have developed a comprehensive understanding of evidence-based treatment approaches, therapeutic techniques, and relapse prevention strategies.He is committed to creating a safe and non-judgmental space for clients to explore their struggles and develop personalized recovery plans.

KEY POINTS OF EPISODE 

In this gripping episode, Allen opens up about his journey from addiction to purpose. After losing his brother to an overdose and facing multiple relapses, Allen’s path led him through several treatment centers—and eventually, into lasting recovery. What started as a fight to survive became a mission to help others heal. Now a leader in the recovery community, Allen’s story is one of pain, perseverance, and powerful transformation. If you’re struggling with addiction, supporting someone who is, or just need a reminder that change is possible—this conversation will leave you inspired and full of hope.

https://addictionrehabtoronto.ca/

Episode Transcript

(00:23):
How's it going, brother? How's it going?
Thanks so much for coming down, man.
I know you're a busy guy and consumes your life.
So right now you're you're a counselor at treatment center in
Toronto, a rehab center, right? What's that like?
Well, I'm actually the clinical supervisor.
Oh. OK.
Yeah, I'm a clinical supervisor.Yeah, the facility.
So what's that like? I mean, it's, it can be chaotic

(00:47):
at times. You know, it's definitely an
environment where, you know, it's great because, you know,
organically, you know, you see the transition and, and people
that come in, you know, so broken, hopeless, don't really
know where to, where to start, where to begin and, and just
come in there and, and you know,and to be able to sort of be a

(01:10):
part of that whole process for, for an individual, you know,
there's, there's, there's nothing like it, right?
You know, to see somebody get toa place of feeling, well, you
know, to start building their self esteem back up, you know,
feeling like they have some sense of purpose in their life,
feeling like, you know, this, this comes back, you know,
because drugs and alcohol RIP this out, right, no matter what,

(01:34):
right. So that, you know, that process
is, is really, really amazing tosee.
So, you know, I, I get to see that on a daily basis.
You know, obviously I, I manage the clinical team and the
nursing team and the sales team.So I have my hand in a lot of
different, you know, avenues. But I'm grateful, you know, for

(01:55):
that, for that opportunity because seven years ago I, I
remember saying that I wish for this right?
And when I think about, you know, how sometimes how hard
days are and how, how I look at responsibility today as a
privilege, not a burden, and think back like, yeah, you know,

(02:16):
I I really, I really wish for this seven years ago.
And and I, you know, I didn't have a responsible bone in my
body back in, in addiction and and alcoholism, right?
There was no such thing as responsibility.
I didn't show up for anybody. You know, you know, what's funny
is I just assumed your job title.
I do that a lot with people. And I'm like, you know, yeah,

(02:37):
you're this because I don't know, I just had this.
Nobody even told me that, right?I just preconceived notion.
But instead of me telling your story and telling you who you
are, why don't you, why don't you kick us off with, I mean,
that was beautiful what you said.
I love, I love hearing that sidebecause there's a lot of
darkness in addiction too, right?
So it's nice that you get to be a part of of the beautiful side
of it too, right. So tell us a little bit about
yourself, what it was like, whathappened, what you're like now.

(02:58):
Yeah, absolutely. The old, the old story.
So I struggled for a lot of years.
You know, I, I, I talk about this often more than not.
You know, drugs and alcohol wereexposed to me at a very, very
early age and, you know, family dynamic.
It was a big piece. And you know, I, you know, I

(03:20):
grew up in in Toronto and you know, over the course of my
young life, I saw a lot of things that, you know, no, no
kids should really see growing up.
And you know, that dynamic of chaos, you know, that's, that's
really the the word. I can, I can see it because if

(03:42):
you looked on thing, if you looked at things from the
outside, you know, I was, I was born in a very, very privileged
home. Pragmatically, all my needs were
taken care of. You know, I was fortunate that
my mom and dad were very well off as I got older and, you
know, so I, I had everything that I needed.
But, you know, addiction runs inmy family and, you know, my

(04:06):
brother was, you know, off to the races at at a very early
age. So, you know, I think social
crowds played a big part and, you know, I, I really wanted to
sort of emulate that for some reason growing up, you know, my
mom and dad weren't around too much.
They were travelling or working.My dad was never really around.
He was gone 3 weeks out of the month and come back for a week

(04:27):
and, and go. And I didn't really have that
strong of a relationship with him.
He, he was more, you know, closewith my, with my brother who
would go with him and travel. And you know, my dad tried to
help him for so, so many years, right.
So, you know, but on paper everything was good, checked
out, everything checked out right, checking the boxes.

(04:49):
So, you know, and at that time, I don't think, you know, even
though I had these like thoughtsof like never feeling good
enough and, you know, not reallyfeeling like I was adequate, you
know, maybe because I wasn't really focused on too, too much.
It was a lot of the, you know, situations or a lot of the focus
was on, you know, my brother andhis addiction, right?
And boy, did I use that excuse when that people asked me why I

(05:12):
wanted to use, right. I used every excuse in the book.
But anyways, things, things, youknow, growing up were, were,
were chaotic at times, right? So, you know, I got through
elementary school made, you know, was very social.
I started to really feel confident in that component
anyways. And then I went to high school
and I was one of those kids thatI couldn't get into the high
school that I wanted to because my grades weren't as good.

(05:35):
So I was one of those kids that was, I guess you can say,
fortunate or unfortunately, I went to grade 9.
So when I went to grade 9, they just started the high school.
So it was the first year of the actual high school.
So there wasn't too, too many people there.
And that that was kind of a weird experience for me.
I don't know. I didn't really like the people
that I was with. So that was a really tough year
for me socially. But then I ended up going to a

(05:56):
new school in grade 10. And, you know, I remember going
there and kind of feeling like an outcast because everybody
kind of knew each other already.Like, nobody goes to high school
in grade 10. Everyone comes from another
grade 9 or they come up from theelementary side of things,
right? So it was kind of, I didn't
really fit in too, too well until, until I was in grade 12.
And, you know, that's when, you know, alcohol started to play a
little bit of of a factor because I wanted to, you know,

(06:18):
fit in with some of the social crowd and the crew.
And it wasn't until so I did well in in high school, but it
wasn't until university where, you know, I was able to sort of
be on my own, right. Because, you know, my parents,
even though they weren't around,they were very involved in how I
was doing in school. You know, they from afar, right?
I didn't see them a lot physically, but you know,
financially they were there and,you know, they would always call

(06:40):
and ask like how things are going.
So, you know, there was a, therewas a little bit of like a
micromanaging component there, right?
So when I went to university, I mean, I was all alone and I was
with some of my buddies. And that's when, you know,
things started to really come into motion, right?
It was alcohol for a while, then, you know, sort of became
cocaine. And I was doing it
recreationally every maybe couple months here and there,

(07:01):
you know, just kind of enjoying my time, right?
And I remember when I first hit that cocaine line I bought, you
know, I want to feel like this for the rest of my life.
Same. I want to feel like this for the
rest of my my life and everything that I, you know, had
a distorted sort of thought or like slack of confidence, it all
just went away. The anxiety went away, the

(07:22):
feeling, you know, inadequate, the inadequacy went away.
You know, when I felt like I waslike myself, right?
And I thought to myself at that time, I don't understand why
people have a problem with this.This is great.
This is the best thing because Ialways associated hardcore drugs
with like, you know what you seepeople in the street and just
where it takes you, right? The guy under the bridge, right?
And you know, so when I did that, I was like, wow, like this

(07:44):
is this is amazing, right? So, you know, my first couple
years of university, I, I did extremely well, very good grades
and then I was introduced to theparty scene and learning how to,
you know, plan events and be a promoter, right?
I started a bunch of parties there with a couple guys and,
you know, we started booking DJsand getting people into the into

(08:04):
golf, really making the town like a good atmosphere because
that's what we wanted to do, right?
And that's when I really startedto enthrall myself in the scene
of things, right? So, you know, I always tell
people like, you know, what my sense or realm of normalcy is
could be different from you, butat some point we start to adapt

(08:27):
to that normalcy. So if I'm put in a situation
where things are really, really uncomfortable, but there's I
don't have an option or I don't think I have an option at that
time to make a change, I'm goingto adapt.
And it's starting to become a normal thing.
So going out and partying and hosting events and making
everybody feel like they're having an amazing time was

(08:47):
normal for me. My baseline, right?
And that was what was important to me, right?
That's where my values lined up with at that time because I
wanted people to recognize and know what you know, know who I
am and know who I could be and everything that I thought that I
wanted to be, you know, and you know, so that, you know, that
really, really took off for me. And you know, I, I finished

(09:07):
school, I got a girlfriend out there.
So even though when I was done and I went back to Toronto and
went back to my parents house, that reality, I just wanted to
keep that, that, that, that lifestyle, you know, So I would
go back and forth all the time. And, you know, and I really
started to do the same thing that I was doing out there and
in the Toronto scene and got connected with some my, my, me

(09:29):
and my best friend. We started promoting business
and we started hosting events and working with, you know,
other guys in the industry. And that really became my, my
sense of normalcy. So, you know, it was basically
like, you know, I love to party,I'm good at it.
And here's some money to do it, you know, and, and here's some
drugs that are all around you all the time at that point or

(09:51):
that age, it's like I'm, I'm living, I'm living the life
here, you know, or so I thought.And so, you know, I did that for
a bunch of years. And you can see over that time,
the progression of my drug and alcohol use became really,
really bad, especially the cocaine.
And but again, adaptation, normalcy, that was normal for me

(10:16):
because I was surrounded by people that were doing it too.
And that became my normal, right?
So when you enter this like this, this world or like this
vision and you're like so enthralled at it, it's like
everything seems to be OK, right?
If you're in a, you know, abusive relationship with
somebody and you and you stick around for so long, your brain

(10:37):
starts to adapt to it and then you think that this is normal.
You don't know anything else, right?
So going back to that, so I started, I started doing, doing
the, the club scene and, and partying and got big and you
know, with that and did that fora while.
And, you know, my drug use started to become really, really
bad. And when I was 25 years old,
kind of on the cusp of, of, of that whole scene, my brother

(11:02):
died of an overdose and, and my dad found him, you know, at the
house. And, you know, my dad was, so I
thought the poor man, like he, he, you know, was worked so, so
hard at his in his life to become who he, he became a very
successful person, immigrated from Russia, you know, didn't
have a $1212.00 in his pocket when he came.

(11:24):
And, you know, he became so successful at his work and he
just wanted to do anything he could to, you know, to help him.
And, you know, was a losing battle for him, unfortunately.
And, and that was a tough pill to swallow.
And you know, so I know at this point, you know, I still like
what I'm doing, but I know it's,it's, it's, you know, seeing

(11:45):
that it not that it, it shook mebecause he was into other
things, other substances, but I never thought I was going to
take, take myself there, right. And, you know, so I remember at
his funeral, you know, my mom going to me like, hey, like, you
know, I really hope you, you, you, you don't go down that same
path. And I look to stray in the face

(12:05):
and I, and I said, I already know I'm down that path, but I
won't, you know, and it was a bold faced lie, you know, but
still in my mind, I'm justifyingthat I'm OK and I'm OK.
So anyway, so I, you know, goingto my first stint to treatment
when I'm 27 because I start to realize I got a problem here.
And, you know, things in my lifestart becoming unmanageable.

(12:26):
And it was a slow sort of the slow burn, the slow burn, right?
And I, I go to treatment and we're like not waste wasting my
time, but just, I wasn't ready, you know, and I wasn't ready.
And what do I do? I, I come out of treatment and

(12:47):
I'm throwing a boat cruise that night with, with a bunch of
friends. We got out, we got, I can't
remember who the DJ was, but we had some DJ from from Europe
coming to do this party. And I miss the whole planning of
it become a rehab. So I come out two days later,
I'm back, back to doing what I'mdoing right away, right?
Instantaneous. Because you see, I associated

(13:08):
knowledge and theoretical concepts with what recovery is.
If I can just understand what they're saying to me and
delivering that message, I'm good.
I can figure it out. I can use successfully, right?
You know, the, the, the, the tale and the story that we tell
ourselves over and over, right? And boy, was I wrong.
But, you know, anyway, in that mindset, that's, that's where I
was. So yeah, you know, I struggled

(13:30):
for, for a couple years and, youknow, I, I meet, I meet a girl,
I should say, you know, when I was 25 and we start, you know,
dating. And, you know, I, I, I sell her
this like real good perspective on who I am, like version of you
version of me. Do you know who do you know who
do you know who I think I am, right.
And I'm really, really selling it because I can sell, you know,

(13:51):
I'm a good talker. I'm a good, I'm a good, you
know, and show people things arealways good, right?
Crack a smile on my face, deflect with humor, all of the
masks and all of the facets thatwe sort of uncover and carry on
and carry through, right? So I meet her, you know, we
start dating, we're together fora couple years.
And, you know, throughout that time, she really, really voices

(14:11):
a concern about my, my, my drug use because I'm out all night
partying and not coming back till the next day or being with
her leaving my room and going across the street at like 5:00
in the morning and, you know, continuing on.
So she, she raises concern and she's like, like, I can't be
with somebody like this, you know, and you know, again, like
in my most vulnerable state, I guess, you know, when you're,

(14:33):
when you're coming down, you know, you're selling, you're
selling yourself, you're sellingyourself on the version of who
you're going to be. And please, I promise I'm not
going to do it again. And all of those things, right?
So, you know, when I look back on this now, I, I think to
myself, that's, that's, that's powerlessness right there,
right? Because even though every single
fiber of my intention is, is believing what I'm saying, my

(14:56):
actions can't back it up, right?We're judged by our, by our
actions, not our intentions. So, you know, here I am trying
to sell her on this, this idea and this version of who I am.
So she gets pregnant and you know, I tell myself that time
like that, that's it. Like this is a sign from God and

(15:18):
and This is why I was meant to be clean and sober, but I can't,
I don't really understand or conceptually and execute like
like action wise understand whatit is that I'm what I have to do
here, right? I think I can just moderate or I
think I can just go to rehab again, you know, and, and I and
I can figure out a way to just balance this and, and and drink

(15:42):
and use like a normal person, right?
Like this is kind of like shortcut almost.
It's a shortcut I love. I love the.
I love the shortcut. Me too.
I love the shortcut, you know, whatever it is, just I'll do
anything but what you're presenting to me, right?
So anyway, so you know, I go to treatment a couple more times
and you know, you know, I come back and you know, she gives
birth and to to our daughter, She was born on July 30th, 2013,

(16:06):
right? I'm 27 at the time.
And I think I mentioned this when I spoke last week.
It was like, you know, she's born and you know, the first
thing that I go do after she's born as I hold her and then and
I tell him, like my daughter's mom, that I'm going to go to
sleep because I'm tired and I gopick up right away.
And that's my first day of beinga father.

(16:27):
What that's what that was, was, was was using in in a condo by
myself, supposed to be the fucking best day of my life, you
know, and being there for somebody.
But you know, self centeredness,selfishness, instant
gratification, entitlement, it'sall about me, right?
And so she's born and you know, and you know, I'm going through
the battles and you know, we're fighting a lot and you know, it

(16:50):
just, it doesn't end up working out.
So I, I go to treatment a coupleyears later and, and she breaks
up with me and, you know, I again, you know, just not
willing or ready to, to stop because I'm so, so used to this
crutch that I think thought thatI was needed, you know, because

(17:11):
as bad as the consequences were becoming, I was comfortable in
that chaos. I was comfortable in the
familiarity of the wreckage and I'm not comfortable in the
unfamiliarity, even though people are like, hey, like, you

(17:32):
know, come, come to this side ofthings way better.
It's way better, you know, like you got a good life ahead of
you. You just don't know it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I, I see what you're
saying, but I'm, I'm just going to stay over here in this
corner, right? And keep suffering, right.
And, you know, so you know, I, Iended up, you know, getting
addicted to, to opiates, you know, because the, the cocaine

(17:55):
and was, was putting him into some crazy levels of psychosis
and you know, all of those things.
So I, you know, one day I do some, some Percocets.
I don't know if I can talk aboutsome sort of Percocets.
And, you know, Percocet turned into oxys and, you know, turn
into other things. And, you know, before you know
it, a couple years down the roadand here I am, you know, using

(18:16):
opiates every day and I'm, you know, waking up and can't
function normal without them. And man, whatever what a
powerless feeling that is, you know, where it's like I have to,
you know, maintain. It's not even getting high
anymore. It's maintaining.
It's just it's existing. It's existing, not living,

(18:38):
right. And you know, so, you know, my
parents and she obviously raisesconcerns.
She tells them and my parents find out and I'm back going back
and forth and you know, recovery, not recovery, going to
meetings, not going to meetings,going to rehab, you know, doing
really, I always did well because again, I knew what was

(18:59):
expected of me and anything thatI did, I was very compliant,
right, And not, not surrendering.
There's a big difference betweencompliance and surrender, right?
And you know, I was, I call it, you know what I call it, I call
it conditional surrender. I will do this if I will do
this, if I see this happening, right?
Conditional surrender. It's not, it's not.

(19:21):
It's not surrender. Like surrendering on my terms.
It's surrendering on my terms and my will.
You know what I'm saying? So, so you know, here is here is
the plan. So I'm going to do these things
and, and, and this is what I'm going to get out of it, right?
And it's just, it's a recipe forexhausters because, you know,
they always say it in, in, in, you know, the fellowship, like
having expectations is like premeditated resentment, right?

(19:44):
So, so again, this is what I'm doing.
And you know, finally, I, you know, they've, everybody's had
enough of me. They've had enough of me.
And I go out to Vancouver Islandand, and go to go treatment.
I think it's like my my 4th or 5th time.
And treatment. And, you know, I'm there for,
you know, I think 5 months, six months.

(20:06):
And they tell me, hey, like you,you shouldn't go back to
Toronto. You should live out here for a
while, get some foundation underyour belt.
But I'm like, yeah, like, I guess, but I'm, I'm fighting it.
And you know, my mom and dad, mydad's like, you have to stay out
there. There's no, you have no choice.
So I say OK, like, I guess, you know, I'm going to stay out
there. But I think that was really the
first time that I really, really, really tried and did

(20:29):
everything that was asked of me in the way, even though I felt
uncomfortable doing it and I didn't want to do it because I
know, I, I really was like, I, Ifeel like I, I, this is just not
going to go down the right path.And, you know, the last thing I
want to do is, you know, have myparents have no kids, right?
And you know, it's sad, it's sad, right?
But you know, so I, so I go, I do well, you know, I start

(20:52):
working out there and I'm livingout there and I take a year.
Amazing thinking you're right. And you know, I, I thought that
my program was, was OK, you know, but again,
compartmentalization, right? It's like, it's like I was like,

(21:12):
you know, picture, picture you driving a car, brand new car,
shiny. It's beautiful.
It's got everything, all the bells and whistles and and
there's a crack in your windshield and someone's saying
to you, hey, there's a crack in your windshield.
Yeah, Look at my nice big ass car, black, you know, exterior
rims, everything. Yeah, but you got a crack in

(21:34):
your windshield. Yeah.
I just filled up the the car with gas.
It's got 24 inch rims on the tires.
It's got a surround sound system.
Yeah, but but your windshield's cracked, right.
So that compartmentalization. So I'm doing everything that I
need to be doing except I get into a relationship.
I get into a relationship with somebody that I was warned and

(21:56):
told not to because we're too new, too fragile, and we have
this, you know, connection. So I, I do it and something's
happened with, with, with that. And I, I relapse.
I relapse because of the pain of, of losing the connection

(22:16):
with this person that I think islike everything to me at the
time, because I got an extreme black and white thinking, you
know, I don't have it anymore. And, and my first sort of
solution is to go pick up. So, so where's my recovery?
Where's my foundation at? You know, I think that's great,
but it's not because there's cracks in it, right?

(22:37):
That compartmentalization to on that decision leads to that.
So obviously it wasn't my foundation wasn't, wasn't good,
right? So I relapse, you know, I, I go
back in for a couple weeks and Iget the girl back and again,
please don't do it. Please don't do it.
But I got to listen. I got to learn the hard way.

(22:59):
So, you know, anyways, it ended up becoming a mess and I relapse
again. And then I'm out and about for
about four months on the streetsin Vancouver, in on Vancouver
Island, on the streets, OK, nowhere to live.
My parents are done with me living with drug dealers, just

(23:20):
just not where I envisioned my life to be.
If you, you know, saw me my, my early years, I think in high
school and even a couple, first couple years at university.
But that's what ended up happening to me.
And you know, I had, I had a coat recovery coach out there
that, you know, God, God bless him, save my life.
And you know, after about 4-4 months of, of, of doing this,

(23:44):
this addiction thing, I was like, my, my, it was 150 lbs
scabbs all over my body. I look, I look brutal.
And this guy pulls me out and says, you're going to Vancouver
and go to the streaming center because it's different from all
the other ones. And it's not like the ones that
you've been to. And, you know, my willingness at

(24:09):
the time was, I mean, I just, I just wanted to die so broken, so
broken. So I get there, I'm doing the 10
day intro and I don't know, man,I, I go out there and I, and I
just as soon as I walked into that door, I'm like, something's
got to change here. You know, when it's like, OK,

(24:32):
like, you know, people have beenleading the horse to water, but
I can't drink it now. It's time to drink it, you know,
and I get there and I don't knowwhat it was, man.
It was, it was the energy and the culture and the people that
really, really saved me. And I was willing, I was

(24:56):
willing. So I, I, I complete there and
they tell me, they say, you know, at one point I thought,
OK, I'm going to do the 10 days and go back to Toronto.
But they're like, no chance of doing that.
Like you need to do this programfully, right?
So I go do it. It takes me 3 months.
It's a long term program. And in those three months
though, you, you know, you startgoing back to the fellowship and

(25:20):
you start going to, you know, meetings and you really build
connections with people and you really, you know, understand the
essence of what it means to helpsomebody, you know, help
somebody through their journey. Even when you're in the state
of, of, of shatterness and, and despair and vulnerability.
It's like, yeah, I don't care, Go help somebody else, go help
somebody else, go help somebody else, go help somebody else,

(25:40):
right? And that's what I did.
And I complete there. And, you know, they tell me,
well, where's your willingness? And I said, I'm willing to do
whatever it takes. Like, OK, well, you're going to
stay around here and you start volunteering your time here
because I think that you got a good story and a good message
and, you know, you've been through it.
So if you volunteer and you likeit, maybe there's a job you're
opening for you. And you know, the first thought

(26:02):
I thought I said, yeah, I'm willing.
But again, conditional surrender, I'm not making, you
know, $14.00 an hour to, to, to do this like and try to counsel
people just got nothing to do with me.
I want to go back to, you know, what I was doing, right?
And where's your recovery at? Where's your willingness at
what? What did that stuff ever do for

(26:22):
you? Right?
It just got you back to the sameplaces over and over again.
So I said, OK, I'll do it. And you know, slowly every time
I ended up getting a job and I start working with youth
initially, that was my first, myfirst real shot at right this
field. And you know, in that time, and

(26:43):
if I wasn't working, I was goingto meetings every day.
They said get a service position.
I got a service position, say get a Home group, I got a Home
group. They said, you know, get a
sponsor that will will take you through it.
And that's what I did. And then when I got onto my step
9, I started sponsoring other guys.
And that's all I really did for the first couple years was work

(27:06):
and do recovery, because that's all I, I knew in that moment and
that's all I needed to do because that's what somebody
told me, right? So I started really building the
trust and the essence of purposeand just seeing other people and
their story and that where they came from and how well they did
and, you know, start going to medallions and, and, and all
these things, you know, 20 years, 25 years.

(27:27):
You know, I remember my, my, my third or fourth meeting, you
know, I'm, I'm, I'm hurting really, really bad.
I'm on ORTS and I'm there and some in the sky winds up
becoming one of my mentors and the guy that runs or, or started
the, the treatment center that Iwas at takes 40 years, takes 40

(27:49):
year. And I'm thinking to myself, I
had 40 years. I can't even get 40 minutes.
So you know, I'm there and I'm listening and you know, I come
up to him after and I say, like,how did you do this?
Like this is this is crazy. I can't believe that this this

(28:10):
you're 40 years sober. He says to me, he says, well,
it's simple. He's like, I live by two
principles. Don't make decisions based on
bad feelings and don't do thingsyou can't talk about.
You do those two things, you're going to be OK.
And it's in that moment or in that sort of sequence, it seems
very, very, you know, simple. Obviously, as I, you know,

(28:34):
continue the recovery. Sometimes that's a difficult
thing to do right for, you know,but I did the best I could to
execute that. And I started working there and,
you know, all of all of this throughout this time, you know,
I, I look back on it and I'm in Vancouver and Vancouver Island
for about 6 years. And I'm going back and forth and
trying to be a dad for my, for my daughter the best way I

(28:55):
could. And even though it's so
difficult, you know, not to be around her or to be with her,
this was like my, my sacrifice that I needed to do because I'd
rather be someone that's there for her later in life than never
be there at all, you know? And you know, Jill's
institution's death, right? And it was hard.

(29:16):
So, you know, I started working there, I became a counselor
there and I actually, funny enough, started running the Co
parenting group there for guys that wanted to rebuild the
relationships with their kids and, and their spouses.
And you know, I over, over my time there was like, you know, I
saw a lot of families and a lot of people reconnect with, with
with their kids. And I was so happy for them

(29:38):
because I learned how to be happy for somebody else rather
than think about myself in the moment.
And I learned that from there. And, you know, they'd help me
really be a good dad and a good person and, and a present person
for when I came back here. So, you know, I got clean and
sober. I, you know, worked in, like I
said, for several six years and I went to meetings and

(30:00):
everything like that. And, you know, I eventually
ended up coming back here in May2023 and, you know, connected
with Eric and he said, hey, you know, I got a job at my
treatment center. Do you want to be a part of it?
I said, yeah, absolutely. And I remember we spoke probably
whenever before. And I kept saying I'm moving
back. I'm moving back because even
though I felt really comfortablethere again, like I do really

(30:24):
well-being comfortable in comfortability, right?
Like I always, always say to myself, like, I'll dazzle you
with my mediocrity because I'm. I'm OK, just like, you know,
having my head, my, my, my head above the water a little bit.
That's it. It's all I really need, right?
So I'm comfortable with that, right.

(30:44):
So, you know, that that opportunity and that, that job
in that field, like it opened upso much for me.
But, you know, I could have, I could have stayed there for
longer and been comfortable and all of that.
But I knew like in my heart, youknow, after making an amends to,
to not not actually an physical amends to my daughter, but you
know, writing a letter and, and,and doing all those things that

(31:06):
I needed to be there for her. And I, I made the move.
I was in a three-year relationship with somebody.
You know, she was supposed to come and move back with me, but
she never ended up doing that because it was just too
difficult for her. And I understand, but you know,
I knew that that's what I had todo and where I had to be.
So I made the move back in May 2023.

(31:29):
And you know, the rest is reallyhistory.
The rest is really history, right?
And, you know, along the ways, I, I was able to really, you
know, meet so many, so many great people, so many good,
good, wholesome people that were, were broken, you know,
and, and you know, they were, they were really good people.
And, you know, some of them did really, really well and, and got

(31:52):
their lives back and, and a lot of them didn't.
And, you know, it's really hard to see and it's difficult to
see. And, you know, I think the thing
a lot of times the, the thing that sometimes we, we miss
within our, you know, actions is, you know, the impact that it
has on our family. And, you know, so when somebody
starts doing well and getting their life back, you know, the

(32:14):
family gets well and gets their life back too, you know, and
it's this like overall like organic, like changing and, and,
and I guess you can call it transformation.
Yeah, it's almost like a ripple effect.
Right. It's a ripple effect, yeah.

(32:35):
Your recovery kind of just starts to affect everybody, but
not at first, in my experience. It takes time, you know, it
takes time. You heal faster than than they
do. They have their own healing to
do. I remember like I was at a
somebody is a 2 year medallion and you know, the dad gets up
and he goes, hey, I trust you now.
Two years trust you coming in myhouse and, and, and, and, you

(32:59):
know, watering the the plants. I trust you coming inside my
house and having the keys to it,right.
It's a big deal. It is it's a big deal, right?
We don't, we don't, we don't think or look, look at those
things in retrospect because, you know, in retrospect it's
just like, oh, it's my family. They they should trust me.
They should give me the keys. They should I'm.
Doing better I'm. Doing better now, right?

(33:20):
And even when you're like in, inthat, in that grips and that
cycle of addiction, like, you know, you think, you think
things are old, old to you, right?
Well, at least I did, right, youknow, and, and that was my
perception, right? And it wasn't until everybody in
my life was gone where I couldn't blame anybody else
besides me, right? So when I, when I say like, you

(33:42):
know, seven years ago, I, I remember, I wish for this.
I, I did and I do. And man, my life today is, is,
is, it's hectic, but it's, it's great.
And you know, I, I, I definitelydo a lot of things for myself
that I need to do it in order tokeep that maintaining and
maintenance. But you know, if I, if I sat

(34:03):
here and I told you, you know, that my, my recovery has been
linear throughout my, my seven years and that I've been like,
you know, tapped in, I'm a liar.I'd be lying to you.
You know, I've struggled over the years and you know, today
my, my solution obviously is notdrugs and alcohol, but my first
real like response to things is not drugs and alcohol.

(34:27):
The obsession is gone. But there's always other things
that can creep up, you know, whether whatever that is, right?
And, you know, you know, for me,I'm, I'm an all or nothing guy,
real, real hardcore type 3. If there was a type 4, that
would be me, you know, and you know, I, I got to watch myself
with, with other things, you know, like, because I have

(34:48):
struggled, you know, with gambling and I've struggled
with, you know, shopping and spending too much money.
And you know, again, like the, the, the, the perception of
like, I need to look good and beat this good, this person that
people can respect me, right? Like that, that, that, that
thinking can sometimes come back, right?
And depending on where I'm at spiritually and where my

(35:09):
condition is at, some days I look at that and weigh on that
more heavy than other rain. And I know that when that starts
to become more heavy and a sort of a more dominant perspective
in my life, that's when I know, OK, I got to tap back in.
I'm not in trouble yet, but I will be, you know, And you know,
the, the biggest thing I think I've learned over my time is,

(35:31):
you know, if it's not a big deal, I don't want it to become
a big deal, right? Because I don't want a little
thing to become a bigger thing. You know what I mean?
Yeah, 'cause it always starts asa little thing, right?
It's always not a big deal. And then it.
Yeah, I like that a lot, man. I, I resonated with a lot of
that. Thank you for sharing.
Yeah, that the first line thing.I hadn't thought about that in a

(35:53):
while. You know, that first line 'cause
I, you always, you come in and depending on, you know, who you
hang out with, what fellowship you go to, you hear a lot of
people, like, talk about that first drink and they fell in
love it. And that wasn't my experience
with alcohol, right? I was, you know, alcohol was
always there. It's a problem.
I don't drink today. I can't drink today.
I can't drink, but I choose not to.
But I can't just have one. But that was never my

(36:14):
experience. I had the experience with the
the stimulants where it was like, OK, you and you said it
allowed you to be you, right? And that was that.
My false perception too was likethis first line, Oh, I'm finally
this guy. I want to be.
People are laughing at my jokes.I'm the center of attention.
You know, I can talk to girls. And you said too, it's I loved
it. It's like all these thoughts and

(36:35):
any anxieties and worries and tomorrow it just disappeared
right, right away. I can relate to that too.
It was a it was a good solution for a while for a bit, right
until it wasn't. How did you know you were ready
to come back to Toronto? That's I'm wondering that like,
how did you know? People.
Yeah, people, people that knew me for a while, people that were

(36:56):
had strong recovery, Yeah. Yeah, those people you could
count on and they they weren't, they weren't yes men or yes
women. Yeah, of course, because here's
the thing, man. Like, you know, when the
beginning of of this last run around with with recovery, like
my faith wasn't there and I really truly had to learn that

(37:17):
God works to other people. And that was like my higher
power, a collective group of people that have no object or no
subjective or emotional sort of,you know, hindsight thinking in
my decisions, right? I needed that, right.
So that was, that was what it was, right?
It was just, it was learning to trust what other people thought

(37:38):
and how other people, you know, perceive things, right.
And I obviously, you know, I didsome writing around it and you
know, I would, you know, I was big into, like I was really big
into, into writing and doing, doing some written work to, to
really discover what like the solution was, right, like
journaling and, you know, just doing like 123 exercises in your
head. Stuff. 1 something like I, I had
to, I had to actually visually put it on paper because I could

(38:01):
see and, and, and, and also too,it was a healthy way of
processing how I'm feeling, you know, and being able to put it
out on paper. But you know, other people
really, you know, because I was scared.
I was scared because I was neverable to, you know, collectively
put any, any sobriety time in Toronto.

(38:21):
And you know, every, everybody, you know, I'm gone for six years
and you know, every, everybody that I know back then is other,
you know, has families or doing other things or not around
anymore. You know, so when I came back, I
really, really like I was, I hada lot of fear.
You know, how was I going to like who, who am I going to hang
out with? Because I built such a strong

(38:42):
community of people out there, you know, that we're all in
recovery, like every single person I knew there was, was,
was in recovery. So I, when I came back here,
like I got like, you know, 4-4 friends of mine that I grew up
with since I was a kid, you know, that are, that are not in
recovery. You know, you know, some of them
still, you know, smoke weed hereand there.

(39:03):
And, but you know, most of them,they're successful guys, right?
And you know, it, it was hard. It's it's hard to like, you
know, sometimes, you know, when I, when I'm, and even when I'm
with them, it's like, you know, I always go back sometimes to
like the what if, you know what,the what if, if I just would
have kept my head straight and where I would have been.
But I'll tell you, Anthony, like, you know, I'm so, so

(39:26):
grateful that I am an addict to a certain degree, if that makes
any sense, Of course, because you know, the, the journey and
being able to, you know, appreciate the journey along the
way. When I think about, you know,
when I, when I was telling that story about going into treatment
and volunteering, like in the moment, I'm like that.

(39:47):
I, what am I doing? What am I doing?
But, but I look back and I'm like, I'm so appreciative that I
just was willing to listen, right.
So I took that, that rationale with me everywhere I went.
So when it was time to go back and be a father in close
proximity and be a son, you know, to my mom and dad who are

(40:08):
getting old and. You know, we're just being
around for them more, you know? That's when I knew I was ready.
When you're not willing to wanting to leave, that's when
you know you're ready. You know, right?
So yeah, I got emotional when you were talking about going
into that last treatment center because I hadn't thought about
it. I hadn't had somebody kind of

(40:30):
explain it. I had that exact same experience
this last time, my third treatment center where I was so
broke into and, and I, I had thetools, you know, because I had
to put together some time. I knew what I had to do.
But I always say this, getting back into recovery is the
hardest thing for me. Staying out here is so much
easier than getting back in for me, for this addict and

(40:52):
alcoholic. I, you know, that's not
everybody's story, but it was sohard, man, to get back in here.
And when I went to that last streaming center, you know, I
always say this, there's a guy, Dave, Dave W, you know, 20 years
of sobriety. And all I remember about my
intake was he just looked at me.He said, son, welcome back to
recovery, you know, and I just started crying.
I was like, fuck, I made the right decision.

(41:12):
Thank God, Like finally, you know, it was, you know, luckily
only 5 or 6, probably a year of on and off, right, a year of
suffering, right? Because when you're in and out,
it's almost worse than just being out sometimes because you
know how good it could be. I don't know, it's kind of this
weird thing that happens. And so, you know, you brought me
back to that moment where I justwalked in and I was like, fuck,

(41:35):
I, I looked at my, my wife dropped me off, I looked at her
and I'm just, I felt so bad, like I couldn't even feel
anything in the moment. But you know, those first couple
days when you start to get your feelings back, I don't know, I
don't know if you remember this now because it's, it's been a
while, but I remember it's pretty fresh for me.
There was like, I'd say probably2 weeks in, you know, your brain
starts to clear up and you, you see it, you see it, right?
So you see it in the clients. All these emotions start to come

(41:58):
back and all the shit you put people through comes back 10
times stronger, you know? And I just felt so bad.
I was like, Oh my God, I can't believe I put these.
My mom, my dad, my wife, my sister.
I put them through it again. And I can't believe I did this
to myself again. Almost like you're on autopilot
and you don't really see what you're doing you're just kind of
doing it, you know, and then you're right.

(42:18):
Like feelings start to come backand it's like, I don't want to
feel this right now. I don't want to experience this
right now. This sucks, you know, I'm, I'm
doing everything I can to, to run away from it, you know, but
that's what I'm good at, you know, So when you're right, when
it starts to come back, it's like, you know, and then, and,

(42:39):
but that's also dangerous. And that's dangerous because we
want to try to fix everything. I want to try to fix everything
as quick as possible. I got to get back to work.
I got to make, I got to make up for lost time.
I got to be a good dad, you know, but how I don't, I don't
know how to do any of these things.
I've been stuck too busy using for the last 15 years, right?

(43:00):
But my thinking is so skewed that, you know, I'm trying to,
you know, I call it, I call it, you know, jump jumping off kilt
or, you know, something like that, where it's like I'm, I got
to, I got to remove an abstain from, from the guilt.
So I need to do these other things, right.
But in that process, I'm only making things worse because I'm
not learning about, you know, tolerance or patience or

(43:22):
trusting the process or appreciating the journey or, you
know, hearing anybody else. I'm just, I'm, I'm listening to,
to react and respond rather thanto understand, right.
And I always say feelings won't kill you.

(43:43):
Drugs and alcohol. Well, I love that, you know, so
I, I, I hear you, right. So you know that experience for
you too, like, you know, multiple treatment centers and
you know, you have all of these good things in your in your
life, but it's like, why is it not enough, right?
And you can take every good thing in my life and put it in

(44:06):
front of me and you can show me like, you know, I'm going to
lose all of these things. But if I'm not good internally,
no matter how much I love those people, it's not enough.
And people, and I feel like that's something that people

(44:27):
have a hard time understanding because logically, if the people
on that love you and care about you, it makes sense.
But you know, emotionally, internally, it's like it's, it's
not enough, right? So, you know, that's where you
really got to do the work on yourself on a consistent basis
to to get there, you know, and then when you appreciate the

(44:50):
journey and you're in that process, you start to
understand. Yeah, the UPS and the downs,
right. You're kind of appreciating the
downs as being a lesson. You know, this doesn't make
sense to me right now, but one day it will.
One day this will make sense. You know, you mentioned cross
addictions, which which I'm, youknow, I think the for me right
now, the phone is, is probably the big one, right?

(45:11):
The computer, the phone, yeah. And I, I, you know, gambling is
a, is a tough one for, for people.
Are you seeing a lot of people come in with gambling problems
yet 'cause I know they just recently legalized it in Ontario
not too long ago, about a year. Do you, are you starting?
I feel like a lot of people comeinto rehab maybe for something
else and then you have to kind of do the work that, oh, there's

(45:33):
this porn addiction here. Oh, there's this gambling thing,
right? Well, I'll tell you this.
I mean, if people are coming in with, with gambling additions,
they're they're not really disclosing it, right?
Because again, here's something that's provided or presented as,
as a normal thing to do Now, youknow, you're, you're watching
us, it's on TV, it's on TV and it's, it's become part of the

(45:56):
game. It's become part of the
experience. I guess you wouldn't like to
call it, right? You don't just look at a
sporting event or you know, and say, Oh, this is just a game.
It's an experience, right? And and, and betting and
gambling as become a big, big piece of it, right.
So to answer your question, you know, I don't see it off that
too, too much. I mean, if we've had some cases,

(46:17):
but I, I feel like, you know, asas we go, continue, it's coming,
it's coming. And it's probably the scariest
addiction, I think, because money is the drug and it's not
about winning or losing. So the same sort of feelings

(46:39):
that you try to chase with drugsand alcohol, there's chasing
with gambling and chasing with losing money or winning money,
right? It's it's that why am I escaping
by doing this? But you know, you lose all your
money then what, you know, So it's very scary.

(46:59):
And I'm sure, you know, as we continue to move along, you're
going to start to see it becoming more and more
prevalent. I agree with you and I I think I
know this. This has hit personally to me
too but I think like the rates of suicide, especially with men
in that have gambling addictionsare starting to go up.
I read that summer. It's a high suicide rate of
addiction. So it is true then?

(47:20):
Yeah, Yeah. So when you actually gamble
you're the same dopamine levels as cocaine, it releases the same
dopamine levels in your ad, right.
So that's the two are, are associated with each other.
And yeah, it's, it's pretty, it's, it's scary.
It's scary. And even like casinos, you know,
people just are so much, it's somuch, it's so readily available,

(47:44):
inaccessible, right. And, you know, you know what
they say like accessibility can be, you know, the, the devil's
playground for a person, right? Because it's right there in
front of you, right? So, you know, when people are
these days, you know, everybody's on the phone and
people playing online slots and blackjack and you know, it's
it's it's becoming, it's becoming like, I guess you call

(48:08):
it a pet like a pandemic, almostlike not a pandemic, but what's
the word epidemic? Epidemic.
Yeah, it is. Yeah.
Yeah. So you, you talked a little bit
about your kind of, you know, your mental health and how
important it is to kind of do your own thing because you're,
you're really busy with work AndI find that, you know, I, I can
get lost in helping other people.

(48:28):
I was mentoring for a bit and I've entered a lot of guys.
Luckily, one of the best parts of this, this whole thing by
far, by far, like bar none, you know, it's changed my life,
right? And I can't wait to get back
into it. What do your daily habits look
like to kind of take care of your own recovery?
So I pray in the morning. Sometimes I'll meditate, but I
pray in the morning. So I read, I read the just for

(48:51):
the day every day. Because again, I never know
when, whenever it is, I read something, you know, when it,
when it's going to hit, you know, and it kind of set me
straight, right? Because again, I need to be
reminded of certain things when I'm in, when I'm in extreme
thinking, when I'm in, you know,there's days when I wake up and
I don't want to, I don't want toadult, you know, I want to, I
want, I want to, I want to be, Iwant to be like a little kid,

(49:14):
you know, and I look at responsibility sometimes as a
burden rather than a privilege, right.
So, you know, reading the just for today, which is something
that I was true and near and dear to me in my early recovery,
you know, I do that and then, you know, I get to work and, you
know, I would like to say that, you know, I go to a lot of

(49:34):
meetings, but I but I don't. And you know, that's something
that I definitely need to continue to work on.
But I have a sponsor. I'm going through a book again,
you know, and I got a couple people reaching out, then I'm
going to take through the book, too.
And you know, when stuff sort ofslows down for me.
But you know, for me, man, like,like, physical exercise is so
important. You know, playing sports is so

(49:56):
important, tennis or, you know, baseball, I play in, you know,
Baseball League too. And I, I should mention that
like, you know, recovery, softball was such a big and an
instrumental piece to my, to my recovery when I was out there
too. Like it really was good to help
me bond and, and form relationships with other people
and meet other people, right? And so it was so cool to do
that. That was, that was, that was

(50:17):
like a really, really great timefor me, right.
So, you know, just just those things and, and reminding myself
that I that I need to have balance in my life and, and, and
understanding that like, you know, as long as I know I do my
best everyday, it's enough. Not much more I can do, you
know, So that and, you know, youknow, even working in the in

(50:42):
this field, like, you know, people always say, OK, well, I
work in this field. That's my no way working in an
environment like that has a has a mental big time, big time and
you got you got to have maintenance for yourself.
Yeah, you really do. So that's that's kind of what.

(51:05):
Yeah, I mean like if you if evenif you just look at the stats
and the numbers, right. Like this, they did the stats
and numbers do not favor us, right.
So you put that in the treatmentcenter environment.
How many clients do you get? You know, thousands, right?
In, in a month, I'm sure, or in a couple of months.
It's a big treatment center. You're going to see more people
unfortunately failed and succeed, right?

(51:25):
And I don't like the word fail because relapse is not failure.
I've learned that failure is thewrong word, but relapse and kind
of stumble a bit, right? Why do you think people relapse
like today? I know that that's kind of a
multifaceted answer, right? There's a lot of reasons, but
just like today, why do you think what are you seeing?

(51:47):
I think time, I think, you know,people when I really get it in
such a quick time and, and, and they sort of let go of the the
gas. I think people, you know, how
willing are they right? And, and I don't know, like,

(52:07):
like for me, man, like, and, andfrom the people that I've, you
know, gone and cleaned and soberwith this, just to talk to some
of the people that I went through treatment with.
And we were, we were willing to do whatever it took, right?
And I think sometimes people just have a lack of willingness.
And I don't mean to say that in like a rude or disrespectful
way. I'm just, it's, it's what it is.
But I think time, I think, I think people look at how quickly

(52:32):
or, you know, in a short period of time, I want to get
everything back right. And I I think that they sort of
just they fall off because of that, you know, they don't take
it as seriously or they don't they're not the desperation goes
away. You know, they start feeling
good, putting a little bit of weight back in some color in the
face, families talking to them. And then it's like, OK, see you

(52:58):
later, guys. I got everything I needed from
you. I don't need to be around here
anymore. Thank you.
But here I go. I'm going to go.
I got some catching up to do Deuces, right.
And I, I think though that's a big reason, but I also think
like, you know, communities is huge lack of community for
people connection like me. And you're having a conversation

(53:22):
right now and we can relate to each other.
And it makes me feel like I'm more normal just by talking to
you, right? Like if you're left to your own
devices and, and you're, and you're surrounding yourself with
people that don't understand thestruggle of what you're going
through, what you've been through, you know, you're going
to feel alone again. So what, you have some sobriety

(53:43):
under your belt. And sometimes I always tell
people, like, if you don't have a good program or you don't have
connections with people or, you know, you're not talking to
somebody, you're not doing what you need to do.
Like being sober is not enough either, because you start
feeling miserable again, right? And it's like, yeah, of course
people are going to go back to, you know, the, the, the thing

(54:04):
that's they're comfortable and that coping mechanism, you know,
because they know it's familiar,It's there, right?
So I think those factors play a huge.
Part too. No, that's a good answer.
And yeah, you mentioned community, you know, today I was
having one of those days where Iwas in my head and I was alone
and I, I'm grateful to be an addict too.
I want to say that too, because I, I truly am like I would never
have I would never have discovered these tools that I

(54:26):
have today to tackle life and anything that life throws at me
if I didn't, you know, get some sort of rock bottom, you know,
so I'm, I'm grateful too becauseyeah, there's a beautiful
there's you know, you mentioned mediocrity, but it's it's I kind
of I like that that idea of I have a purpose in a purpose in

(54:51):
my life today and it's not goingto be everything I want, but
it's going to be everything I need and then I'm going to find
out and it says this in the literature, right?
I'm going to find out that all along, it's what I wanted
anyways, right? All the stuff that I needed is
what I wanted. And I didn't really want the
car. I didn't want the control, I
didn't want the, you know, whatever.
Is is your car gonna hug you andtell you it loves you every

(55:15):
night? No, but two cars might, two cars
might, and then three. Is is money gonna fucking kiss
you on the on the cheek and say I'm proud of you and you know,
like I hope you have a good night.
Like, no, like people, man, like, you know, and all that
other stuff is just helps you provide some sense of comfort in
these. But it's not a sustainable
solution. Yeah, right.

(55:36):
And I have to learn that the hard way.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we're, we're,
we're stubborn people, a lot of us, right.
Yeah. Let's let's end with this.
I know at least on my on this podcast, I get a lot of messages
from from family members. And I'm sure you deal a lot with
family reaching out to you before the addict, right?

(55:56):
If you could say something to, you know, a wife struggling with
her husband or or husband struggling with her wife with
his wife going through this or amom and the kid that's, you
know, just doesn't know what to do anymore.
What? What would you say to that loved
one? I would, I would, I would say
like don't give up, you know, keep trying to, you know, fight

(56:20):
the best way that you can for that loved one and, and, and
don't give up hope because if I can stay sober and you can stay
sober and you already can reallystay, you know, anyone can get
this right. And I really think, I really
truly believe that, you know, you just can't give up hope and
do everything you can, you know,to, to help and just be there

(56:44):
for, you know, be there for themthe best way that you can and
doing it in a way that's like supportive, but there is a lot
of help along the way. I mean, you know, our
organization is, you know, big and saving lives, reuniting
families, right? That's what Addiction Rehab
Toronto stands for. But you know, just don't give
up. Don't give up hope.

(57:05):
You'll be amazed, you know, thatmiracles do come true.
And I always tell people like, stay in your shoes and don't
leave before the miracle happensand don't give up, right?
Stay a little longer, try a little harder, you know, and you
know, I always tell families like I aligned with this.
I always say like, don't worry, you know, your son or your

(57:27):
husband or your daughter in goodhands, you know, because you
know there there's nothing can teach you.
Live the experience, nothing, right?
And just don't give up hope. Love it.
Thanks so much for coming down I.
Appreciate it, man. Thank you.

(57:48):
Yeah, Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening.
Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe
for more content. The discussions and stories
shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational
purposes only. This content is not a substitute
for professional medical advice,addiction treatment, or therapy.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction,

(58:10):
please consult A licensed physician, addiction specialist,
or mental health professional. You are no longer alone.