From Nightlife to New Life: How Recovery Brings Freedom & Purpose With Erick B

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello everyone, welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud,
the podcast where we get real about addiction, recovery and
the messy, beautiful process of rebuilding your life.
Today I sat down with someone whose story is as bold as it is
inspiring. In today's episode, we delve
into the transformative journey of Eric BA Man, who transitioned

(00:20):
from the vibrant nightlife of Toronto to becoming a beacon of
hope in addiction recovery. Once a successful club promoter
entangled in the throes of substance abuse, Eric faced A
pivotal moment that led him to seek help and embrace society.
Today, Eric dedicates himself tohelping others find their way
out of addiction. He pursued formal education and
addiction counseling, established A rehabilitation

(00:43):
center in Etobicoke, and opened up three sober houses in
Toronto. Join us as Eric shares his
insights on the challenges of recovery, the importance of
community, and the power of turning 1's life around.
Today we talk about how addiction hides in plain sight,
the psychology of denial and self deception, why rock bottom
is different for everyone, rebuilding identity without
substances, the spirituality of recovery and ego surrender, and

(01:06):
how real fun and freedom are found in sobriety.
I had a lot of fun with Eric today and I hope you enjoy this
episode too. Eric, man, I appreciate you

(01:29):
buddy. Thanks so much for coming here.
I know you're a busy guy. You got a lot going on.
And I texted you and within seconds you said yes.
So I appreciate that. That's something that I learned,
you know, in recovery is like when someone reaches out, you
know, you, you do your best to to make it work, right?
So I appreciate you. Thanks for coming on.

(01:50):
Thanks for having me, yeah. We met about 10 years ago at
Jack's and I was saying this to you outside in the parking lot.
You had and, and I see this in alot of people that have been
working a good recovery program.You had this sort of levity and
lightness and like Zen in you and you were a young guy.
You still are a young guy. But I I remember I was attracted

(02:11):
to that. And I was like, I don't know
what it is that this guy has, but I want it right.
And and so I got your number. You gave me your number and, you
know, haven't looked back. You're a great friend.
I appreciate you. I'm happy that we're
reconnecting again all these years later.
And yeah, you've done a lot in that in that time for a lot of
guys and girls, but a lot of people in recovery, you know, So
why don't you get us started? Tell us a little bit about your

(02:33):
story and how you ended up here in recovery.
Absolutely. So, yeah, what can I say?
I, like I, I, I strongly believethat I was around recovery for a
very long time before I committed on, you know, this
program and, you know, entering a program that, you know, works

(02:58):
for me. But so I, I really lived a life
of like drugs, you know, sex, drugs and rock'n'roll for a very
long time. I started DJ ING at a very young
age, probably around 18 years old.
And the, you know, my boss at the time also, you know, was

(03:20):
using people around me were dabbling and stuff.
I wasn't really like, I didn't know really anything about like
heavy drugs at the time. More or less.
It was like, you know, just a lot of weed and, you know, kind
of like gateway drugs at the time.
And I started DJ ING started making really good money,
probably more money than a lot of my friends at the time.

(03:40):
You know, they were all really focusing on going to school and
university. And I was just like working on
making money. And I was very successful DJ ING
and I'm seeing all these, you know, events working for a
corporation at the time. And what can I say?

(04:00):
I, I did very well for myself, you know, like, but, but I
didn't have anything to show formyself because everything that I
was bringing in, I was spending it, you know, whether it was
clothes, you know, girls going out partying and things like
that. So I, I started hanging out with

(04:22):
a lot of people that were older than me at the time.
And even before that, my last year of high school, I went to a
school called Vaughn. I did, I did a Co-op my last
year and I wanted to do it at AIwanted to do it at a record
shop. So I applied for this position

(04:45):
at a place called Tracks Recordson Young St. and, and I got in
and because I, you know, I like DJing and things like that.
So I started working at this place called Tracks, which was
one of the most popular record stores in all of Toronto.
This was way before, you know, Internet and, and you know,
music online and things like that.
So all the music that was comingin from, you know, all over the

(05:08):
world that would get distributedhere would end up at these
record shops. One of them which being Tracks,
we were able to, you know, get all the new music.
And then all the these big DJs, you know, local DJs from Toronto
that were playing in all the nightclubs all over the city.
We're coming in and, you know, laying down the music and
picking out what tracks they wanted to play for the, you

(05:29):
know, the weekend coming up and,you know, the residencies and
stuff like that. So I really got to know a lot of
these big DJs. And lot of good actions, yeah.
Tons of them, right? So.
So through that I started getting into the underground
world of, you know, house, housemusic, you know, raves, you

(05:50):
know, after parties and things like that.
And I started hanging out with all these big DJs and we started
travelling. I started travelling with them,
I became friends with them. And slowly, slowly I started
hanging out with a lot of older people.
This one guy who owned a club atthe time really saw this, I

(06:12):
guess my personality and being Icould be a really good promoter.
You know, he loved the, you know, I was really like out
there and, and stuff like that. And I was very comfortable on,
you know, reaching out to peopleand inviting people out and
stuff like that. So he's like, I think you'd be
an amazing promoter and I want you on my team.
I'm opening up this club on, youknow, downtown and there's a

(06:34):
grand opening and you're going to be my main promoter.
So I, I took on this position and I started promoting this
nightclub at you know, the firstnightclub that I started
promoting at was called it, which was it was he had an after
hours called exit for years. And then he opened up like more

(06:56):
commercial club called it at thetime.
So I started hanging out there and promoting and meeting all
these lavish people and, you know, being a something I like
to call it, you know, and, and Ikind of like really felt like in
a way, like, you know, I had arrived, right?
Like the book tells me so. So, yeah, through that process,

(07:18):
I really started hanging out with a lot of people that were
older than me. I got introduced to to drugs.
I mean, I, I was going to a clubcalled Industry.
I was a regular there on a on a weekly basis.
So all the biggest DJ's from allover the world were actually
playing there. And this was a club that was
going on for like 2-3 days, you know, and, and I started

(07:40):
dabbling in, in, in pills. I was doing ecstasy.
I was gonna say, back then, ecstasy was like the big thing.
It was huge. Yeah, and you just pop a pill
and you, you could dance for about like 3 days, you know, so
like that was the first time I did it.
And then, you know, slowly, slowly as you start getting more
involved in it, you know, your tolerance level, you know rises
and and by, you know, the end ofthe week.

(08:02):
And I was probably doing about like 1015 pills throughout the
weekend just to get the same feeling, right?
So, yeah. And then, and then through the
that, like I said, I keep going back to that.
I was hanging out with these older people.
They were a lot older than me, probably like 10 years older
than me. I really wanted to fit in.
I wanted to be cool. You know, they started dabbling

(08:23):
in, in, in blow again. I was probably like 2022 at the
time. I really didn't know what was
going on. But I, I, I, I wanted to be like
them, you know, and I, I wanted to feel like them.
So I was always asking them, Oh,what's that?
You know, And my buddy was always like, no, you're too
young for this. And then one thing led to the
next and you know, I'm doing a little bumps here and there.

(08:45):
And then I, I got hooked on blow.
And that was like, probably about like a 15 year old ordeal,
you know, where for many, many years, I mean, I didn't think I
had a problem. I, you know, one of my sponsors
always used to say, you know, you're like a Shiner because you

(09:06):
shine on the outside, everythinglooks good.
You know, you got the house, yougot the car, you got the girl,
you got the money. But you know, on the inside, I
was dying. And you know, I, I, I call it a
slow burn. And you know, it slowly, slowly
strips you away from all these things that you love and the
things that you, you know, you're supposed to be doing in
your life, you know, but you don't realize that it's a

(09:28):
progressive illness, I call it right.
So over time you start, you know, losing things and you
know, your relationships start getting really, you know, you
know, your problems in relationships and business and
things like that. And that's what kind of happened
to me throughout the years. But I had a business partner at

(09:48):
the time where she knew I was just like I was in the grips of
the disease and I was in this spiral where I didn't have a
solution and I didn't know I could, you know, get out of it
really. But again, I didn't think I had
such a problem because when you surround yourself around those
people. Lower companions, yeah.
Yeah, when you surround yourselfaround, you know, those types of

(10:11):
people and, and, and and those crowds and those parties, like,
I mean, that's the only thing you know, you know, you that's
the normal for you, right. So that was very normal for a
long time, but she basically gave me a ultimatum basically
saying that if you don't go and get treatment, then we're going
to fold this business and we're going to go our separate ways.

(10:33):
And that kind of scared me a little bit at the time.
I did a walkthrough of treatmentcenter called Bellwood.
And, and I thought to myself, there's no way I can be in a
place like this. Like, I could do this on my own,
you know, And she, she gave me this whole letter and
everything. And basically I, I kind of like

(10:58):
blew everybody off in a way. I kind of made it seem like I
was doing really well for a longtime.
I kind of made it seem like I had my shit together.
I slowed down. I could really like, manipulate
and hide my using. By that time I had my own place,
so I wasn't around a lot of people.
So yeah, I just kept on keeping on doing what I what I was doing

(11:23):
right. And then I got introduced to
another buddy of mine where we started a promotion company and
we were promoting nightclubs about 5-6 nights a week.
And I mean, you're out drinking 5-6 nights a week.
You're, you know, everyone around you is using.

(11:44):
Very difficult to say. No.
It wasn't part of my vocabulary.So again, I was just like in the
grips of this, this, you know, the disease of addiction.
I think for a long time, but I, I really couldn't see the light.
I really didn't think. I, you know, I was always
justifying my using. I'm not that bad.

(12:04):
You know, all my friends are telling me I have a problem, but
you're all hypocrites because I'm using with you all.
You know, the thing was like, I would, I would use and then, you
know, I'd be using with them andthen also I would use on my own.
Yeah, you know, and I had a friend of mine who told me,
listen, like when you're by yourself and you're using like

(12:27):
the party's over, you know, you're not, you're not at a
party anymore. And then when it came into
recovery, I really started realizing there was a difference
between partying and using. You know, partying is like, I'm
going out, I'm going to dabble abit, I'm gonna have some drinks,
party, whatever. And, and I can shut it down, you
know, and, and using was, you can't shut it down anymore.

(12:49):
It's like you keep going and going and you keep getting more
and finding Ways and Means to get more.
And, and that's what it was for me for a long time.
I, I, I was taught hanging out with these guys that were older
than me. Like what you have, you finish
and you get more. There's no saving it for next
weekend. You know, there's none of that.

(13:10):
So, you know, I like to say I learned the hard way.
I really, I really realized in life that you are who you hang
out with, you know, you are who you hang out with.
And, and you know, the people I hung out with, we're just a lot
of them are users and partiers and I didn't really have a
direction on, on where they weregoing in their life.

(13:31):
We were just having fun, you know, and I guess I, I enjoyed
it for a long time until I didn't enjoy it anymore, you
know, and there was a lot of nights and early mornings where
I didn't like the way I was looking.
I didn't like the way I was feeling, you know, I was getting
very, very depressed. I didn't want to go to work

(13:51):
anymore. I needed drugs.
I needed things to, to use just to get me there and to make me
feel comfortable in the environment.
I became an introvert, you know,I didn't want to be around
people as much. I didn't want to talk as much.
Right. So yeah, I mean, it was, it was,

(14:12):
it was getting to be very, very dark for me, you know, and I'm
just trying to think about the life.
Was there was there a moment I can relate to a lot of what you
just said I we have very similarusing, you know, pasts.
Was there a moment where you kind of they, you know, a lot of
people say rock bottom, you got to hit rock bottom.

(14:34):
Maybe it was more than one, but was there a moment where you
were like, man, this is it? Like, I'm done.
I'm done. Yeah, I'm happy you're asking me
that question because going backinto my story later on where I
was kind of like manipulating everybody, pretending I had this
all together with my, you know, my first business partner, let's
say the second business partner that I had this promotion

(14:56):
company with basically introduced.
And, and you know, kind of brought to my attention another
letter that said the exact same thing that the first business
partner, you know, introduced meto like years before.
And just basically gave me an ultimatum as well, saying look
at like you've been using for solong already, you know, like

(15:18):
when are you going to change? You know, what are your plans
for your life? Like you, you know, you can't
get out of it on your own. You need help basically.
And if you don't go and get the help that you need, I'm going to
shut, you know, like we're goingto go our separate ways.
Yeah. So, so something for me there,
like at that moment, I don't know if it was the grace of God

(15:39):
that came in or, you know, some sort of awakening or I'll never
forget that morning because I, Iread this e-mail.
It was an e-mail that he sent tome at like 7:00 AM coming off of
whatever I was coming off of. And I was just like, wow, like
this guy's right. Like when am I going to change?
When I'm going to be using when I'm 50 years old?
Like maybe I do need help, you know, maybe maybe I do need to

(16:03):
like surrender to this thing or,or, or go to treatment or
whatever that may look like, youknow, and I didn't know what
that looked like at the time. You know, I was always like
worried all, you know, there's this thing, you know, about
people in in rehab or, you know,the stigma, yeah, the stigma
around it or people like, you know, they're those people under
the bridge or whatever that may look like.

(16:23):
But so I said, I, I will, I'll look into, you know, going and
getting help. That's, that's where, that's the
moment I kind of hit a, a real rock bottom.
And I said, OK, I'm willing to do whatever I need to do.
You know, I, I remember it very,very well.
I was on my porch in the front of my house and I was just like
crying out for help. Like I'm done.

(16:45):
You know, my girlfriend at the time, she's like, we'll do
whatever we need to do. We'll get you the help we need.
Reached out to my sister and, and but see, years before when I
worked for this other DJ companywhen I was 20 years old, the
owner of the company actually gave me a business card and he

(17:06):
told me that I should call this,this addiction counselor who is
Jay Pasternak, who he had on theshow.
So I reached out to Jay like years before, you know, coming
off a binge of like 3 days, you know, it might have been like a
Tuesday. And I'm like, OK, maybe this
isn't normal. Like normal people don't, you
know, they use Friday night, they go to sleep and you know,

(17:29):
yeah. So this was like Tuesday and I
was just like coming down and I'm like, I popped out this card
out of my pocket and it was, youknow, Jay's number.
And I'm like, you know, maybe, maybe I do have a problem.
You know, maybe I maybe I shouldreach out to this guy and like I
called him up and I, you know, Itold him what I was doing and
I'm dabbling in this and that orwhatever it is I was doing at

(17:50):
the time. But when I got off the phone, I
was like, I'm, I'm so young. I have my whole life ahead of
me. There's no way like have that
big of a problem, you know, but that was the first time that I
reached out, you know, which wasliterally probably around like
2023, maybe around there 22, something like that.

(18:11):
And I remember, I remember vaguely like I met up with Jay,
we went to a meeting, took me toa meeting, recovery meeting.
And I had no clue what people were doing there.
I was just, I was there, people were trying to talk to me.
People were trying to like, you know, kind of bring me in.
And I remember leaving the meeting and I, I just, I just

(18:33):
went right back down to the nightclubs for another like 7-8
years, you know, so I wasn't ready at the time.
I maybe I wasn't beat up enough,you know, so, but what happened
was I ended up, I ended up buying a house in, in North York
and we were, we were, we were partying a lot in this house.

(18:57):
Like I rented out the basement to another buddy of mine who was
a DJ at another promoter living in the house with me.
We were working and stuff, but we were having lots of parties
pretty much. And and my friend Jay had a
recovery house right behind my house, right.
So he, I would always see guys, I would always see guys in

(19:18):
recovery, you know, and I would like talk to them about
recovery. And I, I couldn't relate, you
know, I was always justifying it.
But yeah, one day I went out my backyard and I'm like, like, I
heard this voice. Are you my new neighbor?
And I'm like, who's that voice, you know, sounds so familiar.
And then the back window opened up and it was my addiction.
It's. Funny how those people just kind

(19:39):
of come into your life, yeah. So I looked up and I'm just
like, wow, I'm like, this is this is like meant to be that I
bought a house here and something was looking over me at
that. Absolutely at that time, you
know, and yeah, and I felt it. So from that moment on, I
started like talking to guys in recovery.
You know, I, I, like I said to you before in the beginning,

(20:00):
like I feel like I've always been kind of around it because
of that, even though I wasn't committed into the program yet.
And then and then what happened was I, I kind of.
When I fell to my knees that that that last e-mail my friend

(20:21):
sent me, then I was like, OK, I'll do whatever I need to do.
If I need to go away, I'll go away.
Lock me up, you know, and, and Iwas on a wait list to go to
Homewood. Yeah.
And before that, I was supposed to go to, like, Antigua, like
Eric Clapton's place. My parents were going to fork
out money. I was looking for a vacation.
I'm going to do this right. Yeah, you know, I was like OK,

(20:43):
I'm going to go away. I need the sun, the beach.
But I never ended up going. I told my mother I'm like
listen, I can do this on my own again.
I suffered for another like 7 years, but this time I was like
ready and willing to do whateverI needed to do, you know, and if
I needed to go away, I'm going away.
So, you know, we set up a visitation to, to do a
walkthrough this treatment center.

(21:04):
And I'll never forget, I remember driving on the highway,
I was in the back of back of my parents car and I felt like it
was like a 12 year old kid, you know, like there was like, I was
like, where the hell did my lifetake a detour?
You know, like I ended up in a hallway doing a visitation of
this treatment center, walking through the hallways, you know,
checking out the rooms. And I was just like, where did

(21:25):
my life take the wrong turn? Because everything looked
beautiful on the outside. Like I said to you before, it
was sex, drugs, rock'n'roll. Life was, you know, and then I
found myself just just at this crossroad, I like to call it,
you know, and, and then when I was there, I'll never forget, I
heard this voice and this voice said like, stop listening to

(21:49):
yourself and listen to other people that found a solution,
you know, very, very clearly. And then and then I remember
leaving there, there was a wait list to wait time to get in.
It was probably about like a couple months.
So I reached out to Jay and he'slike, listen, while you're
waiting to get into that place, why don't you just go down the

(22:11):
street? There's meetings at this place
called Jack's and just start going to meetings, you know, So
that's what I did Saturday afternoon.
I went down to a meeting. I was like out of my mind still
and, and I sat in this meeting and I met these guys that were
in recovery and I started hanging out with them and I

(22:34):
started going to meetings on a regular basis and I never
stopped going to meetings. And something shifted.
I started really changing who I was hanging out with.
You know, they say if there's one thing you need to change,
it's everything. And that's what I did.
I stopped hanging out actually with my best friends, people
that I was using with. I said, if you love me, if you,

(22:54):
you know, if you want the best for me, leave me alone for now.
Let me focus on this. And, and I, I really started
taking this program by the hornsand I got, you know, I got a
sponsor and I started working this program.
It's funny how you said like, you know, there was this thing
about you where it was just likethis.
I've always been a person where I've been like not too worried

(23:19):
about life or things. So my first sponsor always used
to say to me, Eric is like the no worries there, you know,
like, and then when I was taken through the book with this, this
woman who took me through this, you know, the program and stuff
where she really started workingwith me on the don't care
feelings, you know, like I have nothing to worry about.
I have nothing to care about. Like, you know, this higher

(23:41):
power, this, this God, this faith is going to take care of
everything for me. And that's kind of what I
started working through. So, yeah, that's kind of what
happened. I started going to meeting
study, I started working this program.
I, I turned my, my house that I was living in into a sober
living house. Wow.

(24:01):
So I started moving guys into the house that had, you know,
clean time, months, years actually.
And I drive around every single night to meetings with my car
filled up and I'd go wherever I had to go to pick up guys and go
to meetings with them. And I kind of felt like I just
brought this whole new energy into recovery.

(24:22):
We started doing retreats with like 30-40 fifty guys.
We'd go out to like different places and, and, you know, rent
cottages or lake houses and stuff like that and just start
opening up to each other and sharing and having this
commodity and this fellowship with each other.
And that's kind of really where my recovery kind of took off.
Yeah. You know, and, and, and I really

(24:43):
just, I started doing the work. I really start, started getting
down to like the nitty gritty of, you know, what we do around
here. And it's, you know, freeing
myself from the bondage of self and ego.
Yeah. All that stuff that's kind of
holding me back and, and just growing spiritually.
Yeah. And we always say it's not a
religious program, it's a spiritual program.

(25:04):
So I just try to like, be a goodperson today and, you know, love
thy neighbor as thyself. Like all these beautiful things
that we learn about, you know? They work, yeah.
Since we were little, we learnedabout.
Them. Yeah, there's something that
happens. I don't, you know, I I do
understand it, but I don't sometimes I try to overthink it

(25:24):
and it's, it's very simple. When I'm with new addicts and
new Alcoholics, I'm not thinkingabout me, right?
I'm not thinking about my problems and poor me and you
know, I'm, I'm just for that hour, 2 hours, 3 hours, whatever
it is, I, I'm able to get outside of my head and ask
someone else how they're doing. So you know, we're talking about
it outside today too, before we came in here.

(25:46):
So now you have three sober houses, right?
That that business grew. You know, you, you own, you
opened up a treatment center in Etobicoke.
What like if I were to ask you, you know, what's the common
theme? I I love this question of like,
you see a lot of guys come in and girls and you see a lot of

(26:06):
guys and girls go back out and relapse too.
What's kind of a common theme that you see with people that
are successful in recovery and putting together time and then,
you know, get to the relapse part too.
But what's the common? Yeah, it's a good.
Question I, I think like not rushing it like this is I was
just on the phone with one of myboys like this is a, this is a
slow process. You know, we come into recovery.

(26:28):
We want to get things really fast.
I want to get things back quickly.
You know, I have all these, you know, just because I'm clean 30
days or 60 days, I think I'm going to get the world back in
my hands. And it it's not, it's not like
that. Like it, it takes time and, and
you know, they say, you know, itworks if you work.
So you have to work this programand it takes time and patience.

(26:50):
You know, you're, you're changing.
People don't like to addicts don't like to change.
You know, it took me a long timeto even come to that
realization, you know, so it's, it's, it's a process.
You know, recovery is a lifestyle.
Yeah. This isn't, this isn't a, you
know, I'm just going to go to a meeting once a week and I'm just
going to, you know, try to stay clean and sober and things like

(27:12):
that. Those people will not be
successful in recovery. This is a lifestyle, right?
Like, so you like to work out, you know, you go to the gym on a
regular basis. That's a lifestyle.
You meal prep, you know, you, you, you do different exercises
on different days. You work different muscles.
Hand it out. Right.
There's certain things that you have to do.

(27:33):
So you get the results that you need and you're not going to get
big and buff the first day. It takes time.
You're going to see results in eight months from now or in a
year from now. It depends, right?
So I believe like recovery is really the same thing.
It's just, it's just for your mind, you know, it's your
thinking that needs to be, you know, checked, right?
It needs to be changed. You know, I kind of say that

(27:55):
people need to be brainwashed inrecovery and that's the truth,
right? Our goal is to like kind of feed
people, you know, positive, you know, reinforcements on a
regular basis, whether it's justabout being grateful or having
acceptance in life or getting out of self and doing things for
others. You know, like all these things,

(28:16):
these beautiful things, love andtolerance of others is our code.
Like all these things that we talk about, you know, in, in
meetings or in, in the program are things that they're great to
speak about at a meeting, but it's how am I putting them in my
everyday practice in life? The 99% of my life and my
practicing it, I can be good at the 1%.

(28:36):
And, you know, smile and shake hands and kiss babies and
meetings. It's easy.
Put out chairs. I'm great.
I'm doing great for sure. But then as soon as you leave
that room, the world hits you. Life happens for sure right now,
buddy. Yeah, exactly.
What are you going to do now? Yeah.
And they talk about the unmanageability and, and how we
can struggle with that because, you know, we want to live, you
know, we want things a certain way and, you know, we're not

(28:58):
living up to it maybe. Or, you know, we want things
like, like I said before, reallyquickly and really fast.
And so we struggle with that, right?
And, and a lot of people, I, I believe that just, they just
don't have the right tools or, or they're not going into their
toolbox and using, you know, what they need to be using.
Like, you know, they, they, you need to take action in this
program, right? So, you know, picking up the

(29:22):
phone, reaching out, I'm struggling.
I need help today. You know, whatever I need to go
to a meeting, I need to pray, meditate, open up a book, go for
a walk, you know, be around likepositive people.
You know, people are that are like, so today coming back to
like, I am who I, I hang out with today.
I, I, I, I'm around a lot of people that are recovered that

(29:45):
are living a life that are, you know, they're happy, they're
joyous, they're free, you know, they're, they're not, you know,
struggling with the obsession ofusing drugs or alcohol on a
regular basis, you know? Continually working on
themselves, absolutely in some capacity, absolutely inside work
that we have to do. Absolutely.
Yeah, this is an inside job. That's what one of my guys said

(30:06):
yesterday at a meeting. And it's true, it is.
It's an inside job. Like things aren't going to
happen just because I'm sober, just because I put the drink
down or the drugs down doesn't mean like my whole world's going
to change. I got to do work on myself.
That's why we do like, you know,an inventory.
We go and clean the wreckage of the past, you know, that we go
out and make amends to a lot of people.

(30:29):
You know, there's lots of programs out there that aren't a
12 step recovery program that they are doing this stuff, you
know, and again, it's, it's, it's trying to be a different
person today, a different human being, more of a spiritual
being, I'd like to say. And, you know, try to live a
different life today, you know, than when, when I was out there
using you. Know cheating stealing lying

(30:51):
right like this this like bank robber I love that that's great
do you I'm sure you get a lot ofand we have a lot of people that
that reach out to me that watch this podcast that are family
members of of addicts and loved ones.
I'm sure you get a lot of loved ones that reach out and say just
fix him, fix her. Like, help me.
I don't know what to do anymore.He won't stop.

(31:12):
He can't stop. What's kind of like, what have
you learned about the support system and family in an addict's
life? And you know, how do I support
my addict loved one? Yeah, it's a good question.
Listen, there's lots of programsout there that are going to help
support family members and lovedones for sure.
You know, they need their own program because the, you know,

(31:35):
this, this the addict and the disease of when he's using and
stuff, it really effects everybody around him, you know,
or her and, and a lot of people are going through a lot of
things, you know, when, when they're out there using, right.
So they need their own support network, their own community.
They need people that they need to talk to, you know, how to not

(31:58):
enable the loved one and, and, and, and give them money and
things like that to go out and use.
You know, there's a codependencyfactor there.
There is, you know, communication just got to be
some healthy boundaries set in place, you know, So these are
things that, you know, again, they're they're taught and they
need a program to learn how to deal with the addict themselves

(32:18):
when they're out there using, right.
Yeah, one of the great things about the rehabs that I've been
to, and it's 3 now. Hopefully, hopefully, God
willing, no more. Because I put my family through
a lot and I put myself through alot too, right.
But every single one I went to had a family program where the
family like county came in and got educated about addiction on
how to not enable, how to support.

(32:41):
What's what's your view on like family programs?
And because I mean, you mentioned a lot of it there.
Art. Art has a family program.
Yeah, I'm assuming. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What do you guys focus on? We focus on those things.
Definitely. There's there's enabling,
there's codependency, there's healthy boundaries.
There's, you know, just educating them on the addiction.
Yeah. What to expect when the loved
one comes home, you know, havingthe support in the community

(33:04):
that they need. But again, it's a lifestyle for
them to like, when do they starttrusting their kid again?
You know, like, just because thekids got 30 days or 60 days
doesn't mean OK here, you know, he's healed.
He's fixed. Yeah.
Yeah, he's cured, Right. So it takes time.
I mean, I even, you know, I see it all the time, people that

(33:25):
come up to like a year and then decide to go out or two years
and go out and then I just see the family just breakdown again.
Yeah. It's like, it's so sad, you
know, And like, I see parents crying all the time, like, help
our loved one. Like, I shared it yesterday with
actually a family member with a mother.
I said, listen, I can bring a horse to water, but I can't make
them drink it, right. It's really up to the individual

(33:47):
who has to put the time and effort into their own recovery
if they want to be successful. You know, how willing are they?
You know, I was willing to do anything I needed to do to get
my drugs. So I got to be willing to do
whatever I need to do to be freefrom the obsession of using, you
know, or the thought of using. And the longer I am clean and

(34:09):
sober, I feel like the harder I need to work in my recovery
because, you know, I'm coming upto like 15 years in October.
And it's, it's, you know, you think, OK, you know, maybe you
can be normal again. Or you can have a drink or smoke
a joint or, you know, there's people are doing mushrooms now
and, you know, DMT and, oh, they're good for PTSD.

(34:32):
And, you know, you just hear allthis stuff that's happening and
that that might be great and that might work for other people
and stuff like that. But I definitely don't want to
take any chances on that. You know, like for me, it's
about being completely abstinentfrom anything.
That's going to change the way Ifeel today.
You know I don't want nothing inmy system.
I I I'm so happy you brought that up because I had a point of

(34:53):
my sobriety today. Luckily I'm not battling with
that thought of like this. I need to find God through
psilocybin or ayahuasca, you know, and I shared about this a
lot here, but I was at a point where I signed up for an
ayahuasca retreat. I was very close to going.
I paid, I was excited. I thought it was the right
answer for me. And I remember speaking to my

(35:15):
therapist. She's in the program as well.
She's sober and clean as well. And she just said, what makes
you think you're going to do it once?
And that that that was what clicked for me.
And I was like, holy shit. And it scared me.
I was like, I'm going to relapseif I do this right.
So I love that you said I don't even need to or want to take a
chance because it's not worth the risk, man.
Like the risk reward factor. And that's how I have to think

(35:37):
today is like any decision in mylife when it comes to anything,
but it's especially substances. Steroids was one for me too.
I have to look at that again andsay like the risk just outweighs
the reward tenfold every time. It's not worth it because I
don't know what's going to happen.
I started smoking meth in my last relapse.
I never thought I would do that.Yeah, yeah.

(35:57):
You know what I mean? I'll be using needles for sure
if I go back up like I I'm like pretty sure because it it's just
like my the way my mind works. It just I want more.
I want more. You know, 1 is too many and 1000
is never enough. We.
Have the disease of more. For sure.
And then you said, I love what you said too, about I have to
work harder today because it's aprogressive illness.
If that's true, which I've foundit to be true, that means that

(36:19):
I'm more I'll technically this is my opinion.
I'm more than I'll today than I was 10 years.
So I have to work harder to keepthat at Bay.
For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I heard a speaker say years ago.It's like there's three, there's
three things that this thing wants to do to you, right?
So it's like it's irreversible. Like once you have it, you can't

(36:40):
go back. There's no going back to like
just managing or using once in awhile, right?
And then it's it's progressive. So it's going to get worse over
time and and that it's fatal, right?
So at the end of the day, you know, it's going to find Ways
and Means to kind of Take Me Out.
You know, like you said, it's very patient.
Yeah, very, very patient. It's trying to wait for the

(37:01):
right time, you know, slowly, slowly, OK, you got 15 years,
You don't need to go to meetingsanymore.
You don't need to work with guys.
You know, you own a treatment center.
You know, you got some sober houses.
You're doing good all these. Things.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right.
And then it just starts messing up with your head and then you
know, it's just waiting for you.It's waiting for the right time,

(37:23):
you know, and it could be on a perfect day, sun is shining,
you're in Miami, you're in Mexico, no one's going to know.
And then, you know, Yeah. And it's just the first one that
gets you, right. So it's like for me, I really
try to stay vigilant. You know, I kind of wear this
program on my sleeve. I tell everybody I'm in

(37:43):
recovery. I get approached all the time
with drinks. You know, I, I work as well as a
DJ so I play at a lot of nightclubs still in the city.
I have, you know, a couple residencies and stuff like that
that I DJ at. And for me, what I love the most
is that AM behind ADJ booth and I can set the vibe for this.

(38:06):
I can play whatever I want and Ican see people have a good time
and I don't judge. I don't care like if people are
using or doing whatever it is they want to do and if that
works for them, great. You know, I just knew when I was
doing that, I didn't know that there was people that were
getting clean and sober and thatthere was a solution.
So if I can be that guy in that industry or, you know, in

(38:30):
wherever, where they can reach out to me and say, look at like,
you know what, I think I have a problem or I'm looking to, you
know, for a solution in, in living a better life, in a
healthier life, then they can reach out to me, you know, and I
can show them away like beautiful.
Not, not everyone necessarily needs to go to treatment.
So my story goes is that I neverended up going to treatment,

(38:54):
right? I was on that wait list, but I
never ended up going because I spoke to my sponsor at the time.
I was three months into going tomeetings steady.
I had a sponsor. I was like doing the work.
And I said to him, listen, like,do I need to go to rehab?
You know, like my the opening, like, you know, they're, they're
allowing me to go now. And and he said, listen, if you
keep doing what you're doing, you don't need to go to

(39:15):
treatment. So I never ended up going to
treatment, but I lived in a sober house with guys for two
years. And, and that for me was
treatment. Yeah, because I'm outside of the
bubble. Like, like, you know, you said
that I own a treatment center and stuff that I went back to
school at 32 having, you know, some, some dreams and stuff like

(39:37):
that of opening up a place in recovery.
And we ended up opening up a treatment center at the time
with my, my, my sponsor. And, you know, and it's been a
it's been very successful and and I'm really grateful for
that. But at the same time, I think
treatment's a really good place for people to come and break the
cycle of using every day. You know, a lot of people like

(40:00):
need a time out from life. Not necessarily even addicts,
just just regular people could could do with just going to
retreat. Yeah, yeah.
You know, have disconnect. Yeah, disconnect.
Get off the social media. Get off, you know.
Your schedule and your regular, you know, things that you're
doing on a regular basis and, and just take a time out and,
and just kind of get grounded and realizing what you need to

(40:22):
work on in your life, you know, and start looking in the mirror
at yourself, right. And and that's why I think
treatments really good. So it it kind of breaks the
cycle of using every day, whether it's a 30 day or 45 or
60 day program, but the real work starts when you leave
treatment right? So I believe you know, us who

(40:42):
have sober living houses, wherever, whoever has them are a
lot more successful in getting the stats up where people can
stay clean and sober long term. Because now you're out of the
bubble of treatment. You know, you're, you're dealing
with everyday life. You know, we're getting back
into school, we're getting back into work, careers,

(41:03):
relationships, getting back intolike maybe you were separated
and divorced and you're you're having kids, whatever that is.
And you're able to navigate through those experiences clean
and sober with the support of a group of brothers in a house or
girl, you know, women in a housewith counselors that you know,
you can ask questions and, and have that like, not the thought

(41:26):
of, OK, I'm going to go out because life's getting tough.
And it's, and it seems like whenyou're, when you're dabbling
with that thought and dancing with that thought is one of my
counselors used to say you're dancing with this idea of like,
maybe I could, maybe I could do it.
I'll control this time, this andthat.
You're not bouncing it off anybody, right?
So it's a great idea in your head.
But to your point, when you're surrounding yourself with people
who are trying to live a better life clean and sober, you kind

(41:48):
of feel obligated if you're working a good program to tell,
to tell somebody like, hey, I'vebeen thinking about getting back
on ADHD medication and that was my thing.
I never told anyone, you know, Itold my wife, but I was dead set
on it. And she her first reaction was,
no, you shouldn't do that. But I wasn't telling people in
recovery. I wasn't telling them what I was
going through. You know, I wasn't telling them

(42:09):
my motive behind it. At the end of the day, I was
just trying to fix my inside. I was bored.
I was, you know, scared. I had all these emotions that I
wasn't telling anyone about. Right.
Yeah. So you, you mentioned a lot of
good stuff there, I think. I just want to say one thing.
I think like addicts or just whether they they call
themselves addicts or not, whatever that may look like for

(42:30):
each individual, people that come into recovery don't make
the best decisions in the first year.
And they shouldn't be making thedecisions for themselves.
You know, they should ask for guidance and direction, right?
Because that can go a really long way in figuring out if
they're going in the right direction or not, You know, So

(42:52):
that's why there is other peoplethat have come before us that we
go to, you know, for advice and like, should I be going to a
wedding like 3 months into the recovery?
Is that a good idea? I didn't, I didn't go to events
like that my first year. You know, people are drinking,
they're using like I go, I put in, you know, a booster and I
give them the money and then I'mout, you know, but you got to be

(43:15):
very, very careful. I think the first year in
recovery, you know, until you have a good foundation and, and
you're, you're spiritually fit and you have, you know, like
you're able, like eventually you'll be able to go anywhere
you want to go. I was.
Just going to say that so. I remember very very clearly one
night I was DJ ING at a place called Parlor Room and.
Yeah, I've been there. And I'll never forget it, but I

(43:37):
can't even remember how clean I was.
I might have been like five years or six years, but I, I
remember, I remember leaving andI, I got into my car.
It must have been like 3:30 in the morning.
I was by myself and I just started crying because I really
I was like free. Yeah, that gratitude cry.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
But I was just free. I'm like, I'm, I'm like, I can

(44:00):
go anywhere I want to go. I didn't even think about using.
How is that possible being in that environment and, you know,
being around, you know, people that were were using and stuff
like that. So for me, that was a spiritual
experience and there's been many, many spiritual
experiences, you know, graduating school at 32, you
know, was a spiritual experience.

(44:20):
I cried. I'm like, you know, to to have
that diploma and, you know, certificate to allow me to move
on and, and in this direction ofhelping people and stuff like
that. Yeah, you know.
That's, that's amazing, man. I, you know, I hadn't thought
about that in a in a few weeks. I would say I've had many of
those gratitude cries too, whereit's just you can't even
believe. Where you're at?

(44:41):
And it's not like it's not, it'snever I just bought a boat or I
just bought a car like it's amazing.
It's never ever that man. It's usually, you know, for me,
I wonder that standing out of mymind is I was driving down to
run a marathon, my first, no, mysecond marathon and I, I wasn't
a runner. I could never do things like
that, right? I never had the discipline, the

(45:01):
energy, the, the capacity to do that ever in my life.
But in sobriety, I was able to do something amazing like that.
And I was driving down to the tothe Toronto waterfront and a
song came on. It's usually, it usually happens
when a song comes on, right? And it just spoke to me and, and
I just, I'll never forget it. I was like, I can't believe
where I'm at today. Like I can't believe I'm free.

(45:22):
Like you said, I can do whateverI want if I'm willing to pay the
consequences. The sponsor said for sure.
Yeah. You know, it says that in one of
the one of the literatures too, is like, we can go anywhere.
It's funny that you bring that up.
We can go anywhere in the world.Yeah, as long as we're on in fit
spiritual tabition, right. Yeah.
So a a lot of people struggle with this.
How am I gonna have fun in recovery?

(45:43):
Like, what am I gonna do? I'm never going to get, you
know, my big thing when I first came in 10 years ago, my big
thing was how am I not going to drink on my wedding day?
I couldn't fathom that. And then people kept telling me,
just get through today, man. Just get through today.
Me too. And sure enough, on my wedding
day, I didn't have a drink. And that was, that was a
miracle. I love it.
So I can relate to that because I thought the same thing in the
beginning. You know, how am I not going to

(46:05):
have a drink of champagne on my wedding?
But yeah, it was just about focusing on one day at a time,
you know, but having fun in recovery.
I mean, that's the whole thing. Like, that's what I really want
to bring. Yeah.
That's what I try to bring to people because it is possible.
I can go out. I can have a blast.
I can go to music festivals, concerts.

(46:28):
I can go up north. I can be, you know, in the
cottage and hang out with people.
And my goal is that like, you know, doing these fun things and
activities is I have a lot more fun when I'm doing them with
other people in recovery as to both, you know, as opposed to
myself, right. So yeah, having fun in recovery,
it's it's the best thing in the world.

(46:49):
And today I can feel everything.I'm not blocked, I'm not numbing
it with things. I can actually remember what I
did the night before, the day before, you know, so.
Yeah, it it's like your priorities change too, right?
Like fun, just fun takes on a different definition.
Absolutely. So look at that sunset.
This is fun for sure. I never thought that was fun

(47:11):
before, but I can sit with my wife and just watch nature
unfold. Absolutely, buddy.
What a beautiful gift that is, you know, But I, I would have
said you were crazy if if you said that that was fun before.
Yeah, for sure. You know, Yeah.
Because there's a peace and serenity that you have within
yourself today, I think, you know.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like you can look at the little things today and be awake to it.

(47:35):
I think recovery is about being awake.
Yeah. You know, I heard a speaker say,
like, you know, I went my whole life sleeping, you know,
dreaming that I was awake, like,walking around pretending that I
was awake, but I really wasn't. Just because your eyes are open
doesn't mean you're awake. Right.
So coming into recovery and doing the work on ourselves, I

(47:55):
always say it's like when we come into recovery, you're like
a baby man. You need to be spoon fed this
program, you need to be loved and care for it.
And slowly, slowly start crawling.
And then you start walking a little bit and you look people
in the eyes and you start building this confidence back a
little bit, right? Recovery starts allowing you to
become the man or or woman that you want to be, that you're

(48:17):
really supposed to be, you know,And I, I believe the drugs and
the alcohol just strips you fromeverything slowly, you know?
So cutting, baffling and powerful.
Yeah, as they say. You know, I like to ask this
question towards the end of my podcast because I think I think

(48:38):
it's important. But you know what?
What do you say to that addict or alcoholic that's shaking,
scared, you know, crying, sweating, miserable?
What do you say to that person right now?
I would definitely say that there is hope.

(48:59):
And if you want to change your life, you can.
You deserve to be happy. You know, you deserve a better
life for sure. But you also have to surrender
completely. And if you surrender and if you
are willing and open and wantingto change, there is a solution
for you. But you're going to have to do
work. And it's just like everything

(49:20):
else, Anything you want to do inyour life, you have to work at
it. You have to practice whatever
career you want, you know, even being a father, you got to
practice being a dad or whateverthat may look like for you,
right? So I, I feel that yeah, there's
definitely hope for people out there that are struggling.
Like I have faith. I I see it, you know, if I see

(49:41):
it every day, I see, I see miracles around me all the time.
I. Was going to ask you is there?
I forgot to, but I think it's important to Is there a specific
case person? You don't have to obviously
break anonymity, but is there something that sticks out over
the years that inspires you likea certain scenario case?
Anybody picking up a year medallion or like a couple

(50:03):
years? For sure that that inspires me.
For sure. I have like, I just, I actually
just facilitated last week, A7 year medallion, a four year
medallion and a one year medallion all in one night.
And they're all three buddies ofmine.
So for me, like, what really inspires me is seeing the family

(50:29):
members so happy and seeing their loved ones change.
Like for me, that like just touches my heart, you know,
brings tears to my eyes. And like I, I just, yeah, that's
the gratitude I get when some, when I feel like, wow,
somebody's actually free from that bondage of, of drugs and
using, you know, and they're living a different life and

(50:50):
they're getting married and they're having kids and they're,
they could never even imagine their life.
I always tell people you can't even imagine what your life will
look like in recovery. It's true.
You know, it's it's beautiful thing, right?
But I always say normie normies won't understand.
They don't get it, but I, I feellike this program or, you know,

(51:13):
whatever program it is that you're doing, it's, it's a, it's
a gift from, it's a gift from God for me.
And there's a power like it's anunbelievable power.
But my thing I would just say isthat there's hope for sure, you
know? Awesome.
Yeah. Where can people find you?
Eric? Do you want to shout out
anything? Yeah, I mean, if people are

(51:35):
struggling for sure reach out to, you know, we have a, we have
a, a treatment center that people can, if they need
treatment or they need outpatient counseling or maybe
they don't need treatment, they just need a day program.
There's an online program that we offer to people.
So it's www.addictionrehabtoronto.ca.

(51:57):
We have sober living for guys that just want to come in and,
and you know, live in a sober living house for, you know, a
couple months that could be beneficial for them as well.
And what else? You can see me on the dance
floor. Yeah, I love it.
I gotta come see you. Yeah, I love it.
One of my favorite things to do now is is dance in in recovery

(52:19):
and and be sober because I, I'velearned over time that I do
actually enjoy the music. And you have to your motive has
to be right. In my opinion.
You can't just go to a nightclubto have fun.
In my, in my experience, sorry, I shouldn't say that I have to
go to places with the right motive.
I can't be going to just steal vicarious pleasure off for sure,
right. Yeah, I enjoy the music.
I enjoy dancing and so I love it.

(52:41):
Yeah. So that's funny you say that.
Like for me, I, I, when I stopped doing drugs, it really
brought me into what I really loved about music itself.
Like I loved music and dancing and, and then I felt like the
drugs and everything just took me away from it, so far away
from that. So now that I'm clean and sober,

(53:01):
like I just, I love the music. I feel it.
I, I love the energy of people. I love watching them dance and
have a good time and it's a beautiful thing.
So for sure, you know, you can definitely come out and see me
play if you'd like and that's it.
Love it man. Music is the best drug.
Absolutely that. Thanks so much, Eric.
I appreciate. You thanks for having me and I
wish you all the best Thanks brother, and many, many more

(53:23):
Yeah, thanks. Thanks for listening.
Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe
for more content. The discussions and stories
shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational
purposes only. This content is not a substitute
for medical advice, addiction treatment, or therapy.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction,

(53:43):
please consult A licensed physician, addiction specialist,
or mental health professional. You are no longer alone.

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