July 16, 2025 • 55 mins
Welcome to Recovering Out Loud! In this powerful episode, Anthony sits down with Brigid, who shares her incredible journey of getting sober at 21 and building 12 years of recovery. They dive deep into childhood trauma, addiction, suicidal thoughts, finding a sober community, navigating relationships, and how faith and spirituality play a crucial role in long-term sobriety. Brigid is a powerful example of how you can get through ANYTHING sober.
Whether you’re struggling with addiction, supporting a loved one, or searching for real stories of hope, this episode is for you. Bridget’s honest account covers hitting rock bottom, the challenges of early recovery, mental health, relapse, divorce, building new coping skills, and learning to find joy again—without alcohol.
Timestamps:
0:00 – Welcome & Show Introduction
0:35 – Why Service Matters in Recovery
1:49 – How Anthony & Brigid Met: “No Coincidences”
3:00 – Brigids Story: Getting Sober at 21
4:51 – Childhood Trauma, Books & Early Escape
5:41 – When Drinking Was Still Fun
7:00 – Realizing Alcohol Became the Problem
8:21 – The Moment Bridget Knew She Needed Help
10:04 – Trying to Control Drinking (and Failing)
11:02 – Accepting the Truth: “I Can’t Stay Stopped”
12:22 – The Reality of Sobriety: Emotional Rollercoaster
15:05 – Suicidal Thoughts & Hospitalization
17:29 – Finding Community in Early Recovery
20:06 – Learning to Have Fun Sober
21:24 – Dealing with Triggers & Playing the Tape Forward
23:03 – The Illusion of Control & the Lurking Notion
24:36 – Identity in Recovery: Am I Still an Alcoholic?
26:42 – Chasing the “Fun” That Never Lasts
27:19 – Faith, Spirituality & Higher Power
29:17 – Divorce, Relapse, and Letting Go
34:06 – Finding Joy Again After Loss
38:28 – The Power of Gratitude & Being Present
40:02 – “This Too Shall Pass”—Surviving the Bad Days
43:07 – Slipping Up: Accidental Drink in Recovery
45:05 – Staying Vigilant in Recovery
46:38 – Recovery Routine: Daily Tools for Sobriety
49:13 – Perspective Shifts & Helping Others
51:13 – The Freedom to Be Imperfect
53:31 – Final Words: Hope for Anyone Struggling
55:07 – Thank You & Closing
sobriety, recovery, addiction, alcoholism, sober journey, faith, spirituality, mental health, relapse, coping skills, 12 step, community, trauma, healing, Bridget recovery story, Anthony D podcast, sober podcast, recovery tools, surviving rock bottom, life after addiction
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hi there, welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud.
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alcohol, please shoot me a message.
You are no longer alone. You can send a message to at
Recovering Out Loud Pod on all social media platforms and I
(00:25):
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1 to get help. Please follow, like and
subscribe to the channel to helpsupport the show.
I'm so glad you're here. Yeah, it's been a, it's been a
(01:00):
good week, I would say. I think like my higher power,
God, whatever you want to call it, throws people.
Like if I got anything from thatconference, from that
experience, it was service. I don't know if you like a lot
of people were talking about service and sticking with new
people and stuff like that. So it's funny how I come back
and all these new people start showing up in my life in my text
(01:22):
messages. And so I think that that's, you
know, I'm still new myself too, right?
But that's a sign, I think that,you know, I'm supposed to be
doing that. I'm supposed to be hanging out
with people, the new job I got at the at the rehab, I'm
constantly talking to new peopleon the phone and parents and
stuff like that. So that's been, you know, really
good. I'm getting reminded of how good
my life is, you know? So, yeah, Bridget, thanks so
(01:47):
much for coming down. I appreciate it.
I want to tell a little bit of the story about how we met
because I think it's important and the universe has plans for
me. I think, yeah, I don't think
it's a coincidence that I was atthe airport coming back from
Vancouver and I need to charge my phone or my laptop or
something. And I went and sat in the one
seat where the charger was, and you were sitting right there.
(02:10):
And then I had run into a friendof mine who came up to me and
started yelling that we were in recovery together, which I think
there was a time in my life where I can't cross my legs.
That's not happening. There was a time in my life
where I think that really would have bothered me is somebody
like outing my anonymity. But today I really don't care.
Obviously, as you can see, I really don't care because look
(02:32):
what happened. You know, usually good things
happen out of that and usually people don't come up and, you
know, oh, this guy's in recovery.
Like we're going to make fun of him or put him in the newspaper,
like I think is going to happen.So I sit beside you and you look
at me. Are you in recovery?
Yeah, You know, me too. And yeah.
What are the chances of that? Right.
You're from Toronto. And then it ends up that our,
our seats are like right behind each other on the plane.
(02:53):
So it was a cool experience of how we met.
And I thought, you know what, I,I got to have her on the
podcast, 'cause you've been sober quite a while now.
Yeah. 12 years. 12 years. Amazing.
So, yeah, that's that half year's important.
Yeah, I agree. I'm not being sarcastic.
I, I like, I really every time Isay I relapsed, like, I was
like, I had 7 1/2 years, not 7, you know, 7 1/2.
(03:13):
That was a long, hard half year because I don't know, for people
like us, maybe you can relate. Like, I couldn't even imagine
getting a few minutes together at one point in my life.
So that half year is a miracle. The day is a miracle, right.
So thanks so much for coming. Why don't you tell us a little
bit about your story, how you came into recovery, and what
your life is like today? Thank you so much for having me.
(03:36):
Yeah, I do think that it was a little bit divine, us meeting in
the lounge before we got on the plane and then sitting right
next to each other. And that's kind of like one of
the wonderful things I think about recovery and sobriety is
the way that it connects me to people and the community that I
find almost everybody, almost every single one of my friends
(03:56):
is also sober. And I love them all so much.
And like, I'm so grateful for that.
And actually, so the person who got me sober was my best friend
from high school. I, I think I always like to
party. Like I always like to have fun.
(04:17):
It was the first thing that really made me feel a part of
the world. You know, I was a nerdy, weird
kind of kid and I was seeking escape before I ever found drugs
or alcohol. I often say that the first thing
I found was books. I would read obsessively.
I would read for hours. I would read till dawn.
(04:40):
And it was the one way that whenI was 11, I could get out of how
I was feeling because the way I was feeling was not good.
I remember the first time that Iwanted to kill myself.
I was like 11 years old. And so when I got to high school
and I made friends and I, I started partying, it was like my
(05:01):
life opened up. And I really feel like at that
time it, it saved my life, you know, before drinking ruined my
life. It got me through when I really
didn't have anything else and itwas fun.
I think that that's one thing that I, I like to remind myself
(05:21):
of like I can be stupid, but I am not stupid.
And I, I drank because it did something for me.
Like it helped me. I needed it, you know, and then
I of course took it way too far and it became a problem and I
couldn't stop and like all of that stuff.
But before it hurt me, it reallyhelped me.
(05:42):
And so I, I just like, I like toparty, I like to have a good
time. I like to go out, I like to
dance, I like to laugh, I like to go woo.
I like to take shots. Like I liked all of that stuff.
And it didn't feel like a problem for a long time in large
part because all of the people around me were worse.
(06:02):
They were overdosing, they were getting kicked out of school,
they were getting suspended. They were having the cops called
on them. They were having like, bad stuff
happening and I was doing OK, you know, But they all kind of
fell away, right? And I think that I was just left
(06:24):
as the drunk girl at the party, you know, and what had be
started as something that made me feel connected to the world.
All of a sudden it like it became the only thing that
mattered, right? Like I was going out and I was
drinking and I was around people, but I was not engaging
with the conversation. I was not present.
The only thing I was thinking about was like how how many
(06:44):
drinks I had had? How drunk was I how many more
until I got to where I needed togo holding up the bottle and
like doing the math, how many shots do I have left?
And this constant math of how fucked up can I get right?
And what happened was of my bestfriend from high school, she, I
(07:06):
had kind of made peace with the fact that she was going to die.
She had gone into some very harddrugs.
And it had been like, I was 21 at the time.
And it had been a few years since I'd really seen her, like
laugh or smile or be present. You know, she was kind of like a
zombie. And we had, we had lost a friend
before to an overdose. And so the reality of her death
(07:30):
felt very present. And I had had some, I had had
some bad nights. I had worried for a long time
about my relationship to alcoholand whether I had a drinking
problem. And was the way that I drank
normal and all of this stuff. It was something I thought about
a lot. And I I made myself a promise
(07:55):
that I was not going to drink for a year.
And a little after I made this promise to myself, this friend
calls me and I, I remember this conversation so clearly.
I remember she laughed. And it, it was, I had not spoken
(08:15):
to this person in years. The person on the phone, I had
spoke to my friend, but I had not spoken to the person on the
phone in years, Right? And she was sober.
She was like 2 months sober and we made a plan to go out of town
and visit a friend together and she was going to meetings every
(08:35):
day. And we went out the first night
we got there and we we went to abar with this friend and we were
all hanging out and it was so uncomfortable.
It was so uncomfortable. I felt like my skin was too, too
tight and I couldn't think and Icouldn't be present and I
couldn't talk and I couldn't, I wasn't, I just wasn't there,
(08:57):
right? And like, that's why I drank
because when I had a drink, all of those feelings fell away and
I was able to be present and I was able to be funny and I was
able to be real and I was able to be myself, right, 'cause when
I was sober, there was none of that.
There was none of that. And I remember going to the
(09:18):
bathroom and, and staring at myself in the mirror and
thinking, you can just have one,It's not a big deal, it'll be
fine. But I didn't end up having that
drink 'cause I didn't want to drink in front of my newly sober
friend, Right, Right. Yeah.
And so the next morning, she's, she's going to a meeting every
day. And I tag along for for moral
support, you know, and. I don't have a problem.
(09:41):
I'm helping my friend, I'm helping my friend with the
problem. I'm just here for support.
I'm just here for support, you know, I really want to support
her on her journey, right? And they played this tape and
they said that you're an alcoholic if you can't stop once
you start, which I had known forever.
I had known since the moment I started drinking that once I
(10:02):
started, all bets were off. I did so many things to control
how I drank. I I would only bring out a
certain amount of money. I would only buy a certain
amount of alcohol. I would, I remember drinking
shots of olive oil before I drank to make the liquor like
absorb slower. I remember having steak every
(10:23):
time I drank so that it would I would have something in this my
stomach so I wouldn't get so drunk.
I would avoid certain liquors, like all of the stuff, all of
the stuff control it. And so when they said that I was
like, well, yeah, like I I knew that.
And then they said the other piece, though, is like, that
would be fine. That would be fine if I didn't
start drinking. But I always started drinking,
(10:44):
right? I always started drinking
thinking this time it'll be different.
And they said that the second piece is that you can't stay
stopped. And in that moment, I understood
what had happened the night before when I was having that
conversation in the mirror. And I burst into tears.
And I thought my life was over. I really thought my life was
over. I was 21 and I had never had a
(11:07):
good time without alcohol in my system, right?
Like it was the centerpiece of my life.
It was my best friend. It was, I didn't know that you
could have fun without it. And being 21, I would.
There was not a lot of people around who did have fun without
it. And I remember my friend said,
(11:28):
I'm so happy for you. And I said, what are you talking
about? This is the worst day of my
life. Like my life is over, right?
But she was right. She was right 'cause I came home
and I didn't get sober right away.
I had a few times where I thought maybe I can control it
(11:54):
and I would, you know, have two drinks and I would hold on tight
and I would go to bed and I would think an alcoholic.
But inevitably, when I drank theway I wanted to drink, the the
same thing would happen. And it wasn't until I really got
serious and joined a fellowship and did some work and did a set
(12:15):
of steps that everything startedto change.
For me. Because it was so young,
identifying as an alcoholic was a little bit tricky, but I went
crazy When I stopped drinking. I was emotionally like so all
(12:37):
over the place. I was crying one minute and then
laughing the next. I was so anxious and
uncomfortable. There were days that just felt
like hell on earth. And I remember thinking, this is
not a normal reaction to not drinking anymore.
This is not a normal reaction tonot having alcohol in my system.
And so I was able to identify bywhat sobriety felt like, by what
(13:00):
being dry felt like, and how abnormal that that reaction was,
you know, because what I realized is how much I needed
alcohol to fix whatever was going on with me.
Sorry, so you identified with other people or with the fact
that maybe I'm an alcoholic because I this is like, I'm so
(13:21):
in, I don't know, combat with myself when.
I'm super the latter, right? Like I think that if I wasn't an
alcoholic then easy peasy, I would stop drinking and the
problems would go away. I would feel better, right
'cause I would remove the problem and then everything
would be good. And in fact what happened is I
(13:43):
removed the problem and everything got worse because I
no longer had a way to fix how Ifelt.
A. Solution.
I no longer had a solution, right?
And so, you know, I haven't in sobriety, like I, I haven't
always had done the things that I was supposed to do.
I, and to this day, I can still remind myself that I'm an
(14:06):
alcoholic and I need to work on that because of how it feels
when I don't work on it, becauseof how irritable I get, because
of how uncomfortable I get, because of how crazy I get.
And like, if I ever have a moment when I think it's been 12
1/2 years, I'm a very different person than I was when I stopped
(14:27):
drinking, right? Which is true.
Yeah. I can think about what it feels
like when I, when I don't do thework recovery.
Yeah, when I don't do recovery. And that is not how a non
alcoholic feels when they don't do recovery.
That is not how a non alcoholic feels when they don't have a
(14:48):
solution because they don't needa solution, right.
And so, you know, I, it was the first year was crazy.
I did have to be hospitalized because my suicidal ideation was
so bad. I think I had two tools in my
toolbox, suicide and alcohol. And you took away alcohol.
(15:11):
And it was just like, I just didn't want to be here anymore.
You know, I just didn't want to be here anymore.
But I got the help that I neededfor that, and I continued to do
the work. And I found that I was able to
develop other coping skills, andI was able to, you know, fill
the hole inside of me that I hadbeen pouring alcohol all over
(15:34):
since I had been like, 13 years old, you know?
Wow, thank you for sharing that.That's that was amazing.
You know what, I, I, I needed tohear that today.
I think that piece about I neverheard somebody, I haven't heard
somebody say it quite like that.Where, but I, I definitely
resonate with that, where it's like when the average person
(15:56):
stops putting drugs, alcohol, whatever the hell, gambling,
sex, whatever in their body, thesolution like automatically
appears and it's just like, oh, well, that was, that was close,
right? That was a close call.
But the way you described, you know, resonating with that
feeling of you take away the drugs and the alcohol.
(16:17):
And because I can relate to thatwhen I don't work on my recovery
today. And it's, you know, it's not
just going to meetings, it's notjust, you know, 12 step work.
It's there's a whole gambit of things that I have to do
connecting with people, you know, connecting with a mentor
in, in, you know, on a daily basis.
Even I feel significantly worse when I'm not working on my
(16:37):
recovery in that aspect. Then when I when I am, it's like
a it's night and day, right? And so I appreciate you.
You kind of painting a a nice picture with that, that that's
really nice. Yeah.
It's like I can't relate to whatall these people are going
through when I come in and I came out at 23, so, you know,
(16:59):
21. I can only imagine, right?
Like you come in and there's allthese old people, you know,
getting sober and have jobs and cars and you don't notice like
the, the people in the corners, right, that are, have like that
are like you, you notice all thepeople that are coming up and
talking to you in 20 years. That's all I heard, right?
It's like 20 years, 30 years. I'm like, what the like, why are
you still here, man? Like, why are you still coming
(17:21):
here, right? That was my first reaction when
I came in. And so I was always taught to
notice the similarities and not the differences, right?
It's something that I struggle with today because it's very
easy to to look at the differences, right?
You mentioned getting outside help.
I think that that's really important in recovery too.
How did you go about doing that?Like how did you even know you
needed that? What did you come to a point in
(17:42):
recovery where you're like, maybe, maybe there's other bases
I need to cover and not just this drinking problem?
I mean, what happened was I was.I wanted to die so badly.
I wanted to die so badly. Fantasizing about killing myself
was the only thing that gave me relief in that moment, right?
And the hysterical crying would start when I thought of all the
(18:07):
reasons I couldn't do it and at what that meant about having to
continue to feel the way that I was feeling.
And so I got, I, I called my dadand I said like I, I need to go
to the hospital. I need to go to the hospital.
And so we, we went to CAMH and they admitted me and I got some
time to kind of level out. And, you know, I have done
(18:33):
therapy on and off over the years.
The the program 12 step fellowship doesn't fix
everything. Yeah.
Sometimes, though, like, it getsme to the door.
Yeah. You know, I think that it can
show me where I need to go and like, that's the power of it.
(18:54):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, and then somebody else
takes it from there. But it can't fix everything for
me. Yeah.
Yeah, it's a good point, though.It, it kind of shines light
though on these problems. And it it's like, I can't be the
only one going through this, right?
I can't be there's. And it's I've learned that today
it's like whatever I'm going through, somebody has done it,
gone through it, gone through worse.
(19:15):
I've come to realize that, you know, the longer I stay sober.
I also, I resonated a lot with, you know, hanging out with
people that, you know, we're worse than you.
We kind of choose these like lower companions as it as it
says, right? And how did you, so I guess how
did you find the new community in recovery, especially at the
(19:36):
age of 21? Like what did you do for that?
How did that happen? Well, the hilarious thing is
that like, actually a lot of those people ended up also in
program. That's great, yeah.
Also in program, you know, a newperson would walk in the door
and we'd be like, hey, nice to see you again.
But at that time, there were a lot of young women getting sober
(19:58):
and. That that was the thing, like I
thought my life was over. And really it, it just began
because we would go out dancing,we'd go to concerts, we would do
stuff. And I was not doing stuff right.
I remember the first time I wentto a concert and I remembered
the end of it and I was like, oh, this is like so much better.
This is so much better because yes, I was sober, but I was also
(20:19):
22 by this point. And so that meant having fun and
getting out there and doing things and staying up till 4:00
in the morning and drinking too much Red Bull and like all of
all of the stuff. And I actually found that I had
so much more fun and did so muchmore once I stopped, you know,
(20:40):
drinking alone in the basement, which was where it ended up.
It's just different, right? Like it's just, it's totally
different. I feel like I had to get past
this. I don't know it, you know, I was
thinking about it today, but playing the tape through it's,
you hear it so much and sometimes it's overused, but
it's, it's so true. Like whenever I walk by on the
(21:00):
patio and I see somebody having a, a beer and that thought comes
into my mind where I'm like, oh,what?
And thank God, it's, it's betternow.
It's more fleeting. It's, you know, like I have
tools to deal with it, but it, oh, wouldn't it be nice if I
could have a beer on the patio like that guy, you know?
And then I'm quickly reminded ofwhat the next six hours, 6 days,
(21:21):
six months look like after having that one beer, right?
So I just, I feel like there's like any time I'm having these
triggers or, or urges, I just have to stop and really be
honest with myself, right? And think like I don't drink
like the Bud Light commercial. And moreover, like, do I want to
have one beer? Because I never liked having
(21:44):
one. I never liked having one.
The reality is the way that I want to drink because I want to
get fucked up, that's how I wantto drink.
My my mom's not an alcoholic at all.
And she stops when she starts tofeel something.
Right. Like that's actually a normal
way to drink. Yeah.
(22:05):
And so I at a certain point haveto ask myself, like, if I really
want to drink, like what we usedto joke and say, I wish I
weren't an alcoholic. I would drink every day.
Right. I love that.
Yeah. You know, I love that.
And so like, why do I want this so badly?
Because if I'm, if I have a normal relationship to alcohol,
(22:27):
then I should be able to take orleave it.
I shouldn't be willing to burn my life to the ground because
maybe it'll be fine. I shouldn't be willing to take
that risk. And, and it's a lot of it is
like ego to me today too, where it's like, I just want to have,
I want to be able to control everything in my life, right.
And some days sobriety, alcohol,substances feels like the last
(22:50):
thing, right? Where it's like I can control
and you know, I not that I can control everything, but it's
like it's the one thing that kind of really took me down
where your ego kind of comes in and it's like you still have a
chance, right? You haven't lost yet, right?
And it's like this battle back and forth where, you know, I, I
have the opportunity to be able to control the thing that took
(23:11):
me down, right. And that's why they say when you
come in here, there has to be noreservation, no lurking notion
that somehow someday I can drinklike a normal person.
Because, yeah, to your point, when I see my wife or when I see
my mom, like leaving this much alcohol left on it.
And it just blows my mind. And I'm telling someone like,
Can you believe that? And they're like, why it was
(23:31):
she, it was warm. Like, she probably didn't like
it, right. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm an
alcohol. I'm coming at her.
I wanted to ask you something because I saw this on Instagram
the other day and I, I have my answer, but I want to hear your
answer. My total identity is not that
I'm an alcoholic, right? But at the same time, it's very
(23:54):
easy for me to skirt around thata little bit and be like, I'm
not an alcoholic anymore at all,right?
There's, there's like a balance between that.
What do you like when you say you're an alcoholic or an addict
or whatever? What is your identity, I guess
around that? And what do you think about
like, because I and you know, just some quick context that
someone on the on Instagram the other day was like, I don't
(24:16):
identify as it's not my identity.
I'm not an alcoholic, but you know what I mean?
And I was like, Oh, that's dangerous.
Like maybe if you relapse like Idid, you would say that you, you
know what I mean. So what's your thought on?
That I think that it's a filter,right?
Like it's one of many. It's not the totality of who I
am, right? I am my sister, I'm a Scorpio,
(24:38):
you know, I I'm a Canadian. I am I am like many things and
one of those things is an alcoholic.
And so it is something that I just need to keep in mind as I
go through the world. It is something that I really
need to keep in mind when I encounter anything that has the
(24:58):
opportunity to change my mind state.
I really need to keep in mind there, right?
But it's just something that I kind of need to keep in mind as
I go through the world. Just like I when I'm hungry, I
get, I'm so irritable and so angry, right.
And so when I'm hungry, I just need to be careful about how I
(25:22):
go through the world. You know, I it's just, it's it's
a piece of me. It's not all of me, but it is a
piece of me that needs to be present on a low level kind of
all the time. Yeah.
You know, Yeah. And you know, I, that was, yeah,
well said. I, I think that it's especially
true because there's this kind of like I said, this dangerous
(25:44):
zone where it's like, well, if I'm not an alcoholic now I have
a back door, right? Or if that's not my whole
identity, then what piece of it is me?
And then I, you know, there's these like mental math, like you
said in your head where you're like, well, maybe I'm only 5%
alcohol, you know what I mean? So it's like you start
justifying and then you're like,well, if I'm only 5% alcohol,
then that means I can have half a beer or a sip of beer and be
OK. I don't know, that's just the
way my brain, I could see myselflike getting into that
(26:06):
situation. So it's a good point.
And I like what you said about, you know, whenever I get go
through really tough situations or mind altering situations, I
know what'll fix this quick, right?
And for me it's, you know, alcohol, yes, but more so like
any kind of stimulant is is likewhat'll make me more present.
(26:28):
You mentioned in the beginning make me myself, right, You know,
fit into a room perfectly like apuzzle.
People are laughing at my jokes more.
And then I don't know, if I lookback now, that was maybe 10
minutes of my whole drinking andusing career was that if I
looked from the outside and saw myself at the bar, I'd probably
say it's yeah, like 2 to 5% of that time was me in that
(26:52):
scenario, fitting in, having fun.
And then it just went downhill from there, right?
I want to talk a little bit about faith and spirituality.
I've been trying to incorporate that a little bit more because I
love this topic. I think it's so important.
And when I was in rehab this last time and many times before
that, but this time especially, I noticed it, you know, when
they bring in people to speak inthe, in the rehab, every single
(27:15):
person that came in talked abouttheir higher power, their
spirituality, their God. And it's important to me today.
I pray everyday. I have my own understanding of a
higher power. What is faith to you?
What is spirituality look like? For sure.
I so I've recently been on a little bit of a journey with it.
(27:35):
I think I got sober and I had a very uncomplicated relationship
with my hair power where I believe that kind of everything
happens for a reason and it'll all work out and it's all for
the best and kind of all of those things, right?
And that was, that was proven bythis experience of this thing
that I thought was really terrible getting sober, right?
And it and it being amazing in the end and then, you know, not
(28:00):
getting a job and getting a better job and like kind of
experiences like that. Where there was a
disappointment. And then something better
happened. And then when I was I, so I got
married to somebody I meant in the program.
And it was very wonderful for many years.
And then he relapsed. And that set off over like
(28:23):
several years of, you know, it. Things would improve.
And then there would be another relapse and things would
improve. And then there would be another
relapse. And things got very bad.
Things got very, very bad. And I got really, really far
away from my hair power and frommy sponsor.
I think that I couldn't admit toanybody else what was going on
(28:45):
because then I would have to admit to myself.
And if I had admitted to myself what was happening, then that
would mean that my life as I knew it was, was over, right?
Because then some big things were going to have to happen.
So I was just trying to pretend that it was OK and that
everything was fine. And it was very dark.
It was very, very dark. I had no emotional sobriety.
(29:10):
I was just up to my eyeballs in denial.
And I was like in a lot of pain,you know, And it was a very
painful situation. I didn't want to, I didn't want
to accept what was happening because that would mean that,
you know, all my greatest fears would come true.
And you know, they did right? Like we ended up separating and
(29:34):
divorcing and God, it hurt just just as much as I thought it
would. It hurt just as much as I
thought it would. My life.
Like we had been together for like 9 years and we had a life
together and, you know, we got together quite young and every
(29:55):
piece of furniture I owned, we had bought together and every
plan I had ever made for my life.
We started dating when I was about a year sober.
We had made together and I had made with him in mind, right?
And so it was this experience oflike I had felt in many ways,
like starting over, you know, with my life, right?
(30:18):
God. And it was so painful.
It was so painful. He he's OK, he's OK, but we did,
we did get divorced. I think that too much happened.
I'll say that. And so, you know, I walked away
from that like I will always love him.
(30:41):
We, I wouldn't be the person that I am today without him.
He is a wonderful person and I like wish the best for him
always. And I do not regret getting
married to him because that's like so much part of my journey
and there's so many things that I wouldn't trade.
But at the same time, it was like maybe the worst thing that
ever happened to me that divorce.
(31:03):
And so I was in this place where, you know, my life had
fallen apart really in some devastating ways.
And at that time, I, I had some friends who experienced like a
really terrible personal tragedyand some other friends who had
had some really great losses, you know, and I felt like God
(31:29):
couldn't help me, you know, because I looked, I think that
it's easy to say that it, it allhappens for a reason when it's a
job or even when it's a divorce,right?
Because with both of those things, there's a possibility of
something better coming along, right?
Maybe, maybe there's another better job out there.
Maybe there's another relationship or a marriage that
(31:51):
will be a better fit for you andfit for him, right?
You know, and like everyone willbe OK and everyone will be
better off. But when somebody dies,
especially when that person is young, there's no right.
(32:12):
There's no, this is better, It'snot better.
It's terrible, It's tragic. You know, and something was said
to one of those friends that experienced this tragedy, which
was maybe God said to. And I think that that kind of
became the cornerstone of the higher power that I would
(32:34):
develop, which is not a higher power that grants my wishes,
which we always knew, right, butup higher power that is inside
of me and is like with me along for the ride.
And I had this experience when Igot sober of my perspective
changing so greatly that it feltlike reality shifting, right?
(32:57):
Like there were things that I thought were so clearly one way.
And I got sober and I did some steps and I did some work and
all of a sudden the ground shifted and it looked completely
different, like it felt like thefacts of the situation were
different, right? And I think that that is where
my higher power lies in that power, right?
In the way that connecting with my higher power can change how I
(33:21):
feel about the world, you know? And I, I believe that it's like
in other people as well, right? That this is something that's
maybe inside like all of us. And so connecting with my higher
power now doesn't mean that anything's ever going to be
different. Like maybe maybe another better
(33:42):
job won't come along. Maybe another relationship won't
come along. Maybe another thing won't come
along that will like make this all for the best.
But I will feel joy again no matter what happens.
I will laugh again, right? No matter, no matter what
happens, like there will be goodthings again.
And today I feel so connected with my higher power and I feel
(34:05):
so much joy and happiness. Not when I get to when I get,
you know, good feedback at work or I get to go on a trip or
these like big wonderful things happen.
It's instead when I look up and there's like a really beautiful
sunset or I'm out for a run and I'm loving the song and I feel
really fast. And it's like this moment that
(34:27):
that's just so good, right? Or I'm with friends and we're,
we're laughing and I feel so connected to them and I feel so
much love, like both, I love them so much and I feel so loved
by them. And like, I think that my life
is so full of these moments, right?
Of joy that are free, that are cheap and that are here all the
(34:49):
time, right? Like when I cuddle with my cat
and she's like purring and it's so like, it's so wonderful,
right? Or it's a beautiful summer day
and it's so hot and we go and get ice cream and it's just
like, nice to be on Earth. And I think that my higher
(35:10):
power, like connecting with my higher power today, means seeing
and engaging with those moments.Noticing.
Them noticing them and like really being present for them
and really savoring them and letting them mean something, you
know, and who knows about all the rest.
But like that, that I can do. And I think that my higher power
(35:30):
lets me be there for those moments and lets me be present
for those moments. And like, I connect every day
with my higher power in hopes that I will get to live a life
that I am grateful for, that I'mpresent for where I show up for
people, where I'm proud of myself.
(35:51):
And that's like full of, of love, you know?
I love that. Yeah, that was well said.
There's a lot of good stuff there.
I I really enjoy, you know, the ground shifting is a really
powerful metaphor and I experienced that too.
I still do it to this day some days where you said something
was so one way when you came in,right.
(36:12):
And I, I totally relate to that.Like, Nope, I'm doomed.
Like you said, my life is over. I'm doomed forever.
I cannot have fun without substances, period.
Full stop, end of story. You're all wrong.
I'm right. And then I come into recovery
and I'm wait, I could do that sober.
Wait, you can have fun. Wait, you can do this.
(36:34):
And all these things start to, and slowly it doesn't for me at
least it, there wasn't a moment where it was like everything
just changed, right? It was very slow.
And I, I understand that some people do have those
experiences. I'm sure I've had them here and
there, but nothing like completely earth shattering
where I was like a, a new man all of a sudden.
It's slowly, in my experience, over time, one more sunset.
(36:55):
That's a beautiful one too. Because yeah, I can really be
present if I just leave my damn phone at home, you know, I, I
can be present in those moments and really enjoy them 1 sunset
at a time, one hug at a time. You know, one I used to hate
cats and then I had to babysit my sister in law's cat and it it
it purred on me one time and I was like, this is actually
(37:15):
really it's. So good.
I I took a video of it. I was like this is.
Really. Or you come home and your dog is
so happy to see. You you're like what?
Me. Yeah, I'm a piece of shit.
Why? I'm like.
I think that life is so full of those like just tiny moments and
you get used to them and it's soeasy to skirt by them.
So easy. It's so easy to skirt by them.
But like, that's what it's about.
(37:37):
That's what it's fucking. About yeah, absolutely.
How do you how do you tap into them?
I think that I've tried really, really hard to be, you know,
this has been a project, like being present for this stuff has
been a project of the past couple years, you know, right,
Of really like wanting to be there for those and gratitude
(38:02):
lists are a big part of it. You know, when I feel connected
to the moment, like really like sitting in it and like noticing
it and like taking a minute withit and getting like really
honing in on the things that I care about and that I like and
(38:25):
make me feel good. You know, like I fucking love
sunsets. You know, I every time, every
time, it's great. I love ice cream.
I love my cat. Like, what are the things that
are not big, that are small, that I love and like making
space in my life for them, you know, making a point of doing
(38:46):
those things, of ensuring that my life is full of those things.
And also, like I had to, I thinkthere were times when I thought
this isn't working, you know, and it just takes time.
I want everything now. Yeah, same every time I.
Want it yesterday I. Want it yesterday right?
(39:06):
And quick fixes go away quickly.And when I take the time to
build something, it's sticky andit lasts and I just need to
remember that. I really like the I like, you
know, when you're in it, trauma,pain, and it feels like it's
never going to end, you know, rehab, whatever, insert whatever
(39:29):
here, loss, grief, depression, suicide, suicidal ideations.
The idea of just reminding myself that this too shall pass.
And you said that, right? It's like I will feel joy again,
just not on my fucking time, right?
Not on my time, but I will get there eventually.
(39:52):
Sometimes I have to beat that into my head, right?
And that's where journaling comes in and praying and cuz
when it's in here it doesn't work right?
Like I need to get it out there and you know it's hard some
days, right I'm. Like some days we thrive and
some days we survive. And I've heard people say, you
know, my worst day sober is better than my best day
(40:12):
drinking. That is not my experience.
Let me tell you, that is not my experience.
I have had some very, very, verybad day sober but and sometimes
it's just about going to bed andgetting up again and like
getting through because the good, the goodwill come again,
(40:35):
you know? Yeah, I agree with that.
There was a time when I think I felt like that.
But yeah, like there's been somedays I will.
I do always say this though, that it, it's always at least
right Today it's easier for me to stay in recovery than it was
for me to come back into recovery.
Like full stop. Today that might change, right?
I might go through something I will go through something.
(40:56):
I'm sure life is gonna happen. And there's also a lot of
freedom in knowing that that I'mgonna experience loss most.
There's a chance there's a lot of freedom in that because
everyday is like a preparation for that kind of sounds fucked
up, but at the same time, it's like life is going to happen,
man, and you have no control over it.
That's just as good as the big. The good things are going to
(41:16):
happen too, right? If you had control over them,
you would sell yourself short, right?
It's, we say that every time we come in here.
If I could plan my life out for the next 30 years, I would sell
myself short because I've done it.
I've done it before, right? Remember what you wanted, what
you remember when you wanted what you have now.
It's like, I wanted this thing, I wanted this podcast to start
off. I wanted whatever.
(41:37):
And you get it. And to your point, it's like,
what's next? How do I make money?
On it that wasn't. It yeah, this doesn't feel like
I thought it would, right. It almost never feels good too.
When I get the job, the car thatlike it's just I'm like.
Because go ahead, even now when I want things, I have to remind
myself that like, there's peoplein my life that have those
(41:58):
things and I don't think they feel how I want to feel.
I don't think they feel how I think I'm going to feel.
You know, it's not going to fix it.
All of that stuff is not going to fix it.
And like, you know, during thosedark days, I did not drink
because I knew that it would. It would only make it worse, not
better. Definitely were.
You close. I had a moment that was I was at
(42:24):
a work party and it was AI had just joined a new team.
And so I didn't really know anybody.
And my rule when I was getting sober was that one person always
had to know the full story. One person always had to know
the complete story because that was a fail safe, right?
Because I wouldn't have the thought.
(42:45):
I don't want to drink in front of this person.
And that would usually give me enough distance to like get out
of there, make a phone call, do whatever I needed, right.
Yeah. But I did not have that in this
moment. And so we were it was like a
holiday party. And we were at a bar and I
ordered a, a non alcoholic drink.
And they brought it over and it had a straw and I took a huge
(43:08):
sip and it was down before I realized that there was alcohol
in it. And I, I put the drink down and
I felt all warm. And this was like in the, I was
like, not in a great emotional place when this was happening.
And it was not a great emotionalsituation because I was around a
bunch of people. I did not know how to, are you
kind of uncomfortable? Right.
Like so many feelings. But I was a month away from 10
(43:33):
years, and the thought that I had was I got to get 10 years.
And that gave me enough space tocall a friend and, like, get out
of there and go home, you know? Wow.
But I like it. Was it?
Yeah. That was very.
That could have went many different.
(43:54):
Ways that could have went many different ways.
And I just imagine, right. And especially the fact that I,
I I felt warm. Yeah.
You know, you know, that feeling.
Yeah. Yeah.
So, I mean, thank God, that could have that could have
really gone badly. And in retrospect, like I should
have been more careful in, in that, you know, I had gotten so
comfortable being around alcohol, being around people who
(44:17):
are drinking all of that stuff. You know, that's a relatively
big part of my life. Like, I, I like to go out.
I like to do stuff. And so I had gotten too
comfortable, I think, and not recognize the emotional place I
was in because I had a reaction to that accident that was big
and was not the reaction I, I would normally have if I was
(44:39):
like, in a really good, steady, sober, emotional place.
Yeah. And spiritual place, right?
Yeah, yeah, I, I think, I think too, and I'm not going to speak
for you, but I'm, I'm just thinking about in myself and
that because I've been in that situation.
I remember I was at my sister's birthday party and was at one of
the bars downtown and I everyoneknew I was in like no one I'd
(45:00):
known I'd relapsed yet because Iwasn't drinking and I was just
doing my whatever, my Adderall and stuff like that.
And I remember ordering a virginCaesar and I remember her like I
knew she didn't hear me, but I didn't, I didn't like make sure,
right. And so I feel like when you're
in a, in a place like that, you're kind of your guard is
kind of down, right? And you're like, I mean, this is
(45:23):
at least for me, if she screws this up right now, I'm not going
to be upset. You know what I mean?
Like I'm not going to like, Oh well, if I drink, I drink right?
And it's just because to your point, like I'm not in a good
place. I'm not I'm not bringing my
toolbox from from my car into the bar, right?
My my spiritual toolbox, my kid of calling people, telling
(45:45):
somebody everything. That's I had a sponsor that told
me that to make sure, no matter what you do in life, make sure
there's one person on this friggin planet that knows
everything, no secrets, right? And so I try to follow that
today and and, you know, I, I'veoften skirted that and been
like, well, you know, my wife knows everything, but it's like
I got to tell someone in recovery, right?
Because, you know, she's a lot more educated now and she, but
(46:07):
there was times where she didn't, she at the, she didn't
know that ADHD medication could have been a problem, right?
So that's my master manipulator.It's like, no, I got to tell
somebody that knows, right? And yeah, I love that.
I think it's, it's super important to bring that tool kit
in, but also that that's, that'scrazy.
(46:29):
Wow. So you ended up getting to 10
years. That's an amazing moment.
What? What does your day look like
today? What what are like some must
do's in recovery to stay connected and stay grounded?
Prayer every day. Yeah, I should meditate more
than I do. I try and do a gratitude list
(46:53):
every day. That's really important.
Connecting with people, you know, keeping my friends and my
family and the people that I love in mind and being present
for them and showing up for them.
I know that's something I pray for a lot, to show up for the
people in my life. Being of service, sponsoring,
(47:17):
showing up at work or like everywhere, you know, I think
that there's so many ways to do service.
It's not just helping somebody else in recovery.
It's showing up for all of the people who are in my life.
A really big thing is trying to be the person I want to be,
(47:39):
right? And like figuring out what I
value and what matters to me andlike embodying that in every
moment. That is as much part of daily
recovery as anything else. I think, you know, really making
an effort to show up as my best self everyday in all areas of my
(48:02):
life. And then, you know, doing the
work, doing step work, going to meetings, things like that.
Yeah, I think sometimes I have to just service can be as simple
to me today as like, I'm not gonna bring my phone to dinner,
right? Because that's something I've
(48:24):
been struggling with. It's been voiced to me by people
in my life like, hey, you've been on your phone a lot in
public and that's to your like, that's not me showing up at all,
right? So showing up could be as simple
as just for me leaving my phone in the car and being available,
being present, like you said, being the brother, son, husband
that I want to be. When I first came in to
(48:45):
recovery, I had a sponsor say tome, just always, you know, what
kind of man do you want to be? And do your actions reflect
that? Right?
If I ask myself that every day, like I'm in the right direction,
you know, I'm, I'm not perfect, I'm nowhere near perfect, but
I'm making progress, not perfection like you said.
The other thing too, that you mentioned, I, I wanted to touch
(49:07):
too on the, the perspective change because that's so
important. Have you been able to help
anyone that's gone, what gone through what you've gone
through? Has that opportunity presented
itself yet? Nothing really specifically
that's mine, but I do think thatthe feelings are so universal.
(49:29):
Yeah, absolutely. Right.
And so I think that I've been able to help people who have
experienced real bottoms in sobriety, who have experienced
the feeling of their life falling apart, sobriety or who
are struggling with their sense of higher power because things
(49:54):
have that have happened that have like rightfully shaken the
idea of that. You know, So I think that those
are areas where I've been able to like bring that forward.
But my experience is a pretty significant specific 1.
And so it's not necessarily the same as like, you know, I
remember getting sober and people would say, I know exactly
(50:17):
how you feel and I believe them and they would say I feel better
and I believed them. And it was like a weight off.
I haven't necessarily had that that same specific experience
with this, but I do think that there is a nuance that that
experience has taught me AI no longer prescribe to like a
(50:42):
really rigid idea of what recovery looks like.
I think that what I've learned from that experience is just
like how much things can go wrong and you can still be OK,
you know, and how much you can do the wrong thing, which I did,
like I did so many of the wrong things, you know, I was so I was
(51:03):
in denial and I was so controlling and I was so
codependent and I was so much ofall of these things, you know,
and like, it's OK, it's OK. It's not ideal.
It's not, well, the best thing, but like, it's OK, it happens.
You know, there's I think a lot of freedom that I found in that
(51:23):
experience. It's taught me how to be chill
in a way that I was not capable of before.
You know, I think that for many years I was a perfectionist.
It was very anxious. And that kind of beat it out of
me, right? Because like, it felt like the
worst happened and I got throughit.
And so that's a great lesson that like really bad stuff can
(51:44):
happen and. If I can get through that, I can
get through anything. Absolutely.
Like I think I really learned this too from my wife going
through it like me in addiction.I mean, it's really tough, you
know, to watch someone you love go through that day after day
when they know the answers on the other side of the the river,
right? It's like a bunch of people are
(52:06):
just like, hey, come over to this side, cross the bridge.
It's right here. But when we're an addiction and
and active alcoholism that bridge it, it's like this,
right? It's like it has spikes on it
and shit. Like it's, it's literally
impossible sometimes to just make the first step onto that
bridge. And I think I've gotten a new
perspective of how my drinking and drugging has impacted people
(52:30):
around me. So I commend you for that.
Like that's yeah, I that's really, really tough.
But you had to make some hard decisions, you know, but to to
my earlier point is like, that'scool.
What else you got? Like, you know, I could do
anything now. And I, you know, I mentioned
earlier that like, save for my family, like basically everyone,
(52:50):
I love everyone, almost all of them are addicts or Alcoholics
and they're so fun and wonderfuland I love them so much.
And also they're sick, right? Like that's they're sick.
We are, I'm sick, yes, right. We're all sick.
And so sometimes things get crazy, you know, and that's just
(53:14):
kind of how it is, you know, it's not Wellness.
Yeah, as long as I like you saidsome, some days I really I'm
gripping the steering wheel. Some days, absolutely.
I love what you said. It's like as long as I can put
my pillow on the head tonight sober, I've done my job.
Yep. Tomorrow's gonna be different.
It might not be better, but it'll be different.
Yes. Right.
Love it. It's beautiful.
(53:37):
Let's close with this because I usually close with this.
If you could say someone something, if you could say
something to a struggling alcoholic or an addict or
somebody in recovery going through trauma, maybe.
Yep. What would you say to that
person right now? So I would say that I think that
in my very worst moments, I would have done anything to feel
(54:02):
better, would have done anythingto feel better, but I had no
idea what anything was. I had no idea what to do.
I had no idea what to do. And so I think if you feel like
that, if you feel like you woulddo anything to feel better and
to like not feel this pain anymore, there's something you
(54:22):
can do. There's something there is a
solution. You know it exists, recovery
exists. It's simple, but it is not easy.
But like it, you don't, you don't have to live in that pain
anymore. Getting sober was the hardest
thing I ever did. But it's also the thing that I
(54:44):
am most proud of. It is the most important thing
in my life. It is the kind of cub from which
everything else flows. And I think that I would say
that like, you know, it can't get better and it does get
better. Just like reach out.
(55:06):
Yeah, beautiful. Thanks so much for coming down,
Bridget. I appreciate you.
I had a great time today. Thank you.
Thanks. Thanks for listening.
Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe
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shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational
purposes only. This content is not a substitute
(55:27):
for professional medical advice,addiction treatment or therapy.
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I'm so glad you're here. Yeah, it's been a, it's been a
(01:00):
good week, I would say. I think like my higher power,
God, whatever you want to call it, throws people.
Like if I got anything from thatconference, from that
experience, it was service. I don't know if you like a lot
of people were talking about service and sticking with new
people and stuff like that. So it's funny how I come back
and all these new people start showing up in my life in my text
(01:22):
messages. And so I think that that's, you
know, I'm still new myself too, right?
But that's a sign, I think that,you know, I'm supposed to be
doing that. I'm supposed to be hanging out
with people, the new job I got at the at the rehab, I'm
constantly talking to new peopleon the phone and parents and
stuff like that. So that's been, you know, really
good. I'm getting reminded of how good
my life is, you know? So, yeah, Bridget, thanks so
(01:47):
much for coming down. I appreciate it.
I want to tell a little bit of the story about how we met
because I think it's important and the universe has plans for
me. I think, yeah, I don't think
it's a coincidence that I was atthe airport coming back from
Vancouver and I need to charge my phone or my laptop or
something. And I went and sat in the one
seat where the charger was, and you were sitting right there.
(02:10):
And then I had run into a friendof mine who came up to me and
started yelling that we were in recovery together, which I think
there was a time in my life where I can't cross my legs.
That's not happening. There was a time in my life
where I think that really would have bothered me is somebody
like outing my anonymity. But today I really don't care.
Obviously, as you can see, I really don't care because look
(02:32):
what happened. You know, usually good things
happen out of that and usually people don't come up and, you
know, oh, this guy's in recovery.
Like we're going to make fun of him or put him in the newspaper,
like I think is going to happen.So I sit beside you and you look
at me. Are you in recovery?
Yeah, You know, me too. And yeah.
What are the chances of that? Right.
You're from Toronto. And then it ends up that our,
our seats are like right behind each other on the plane.
(02:53):
So it was a cool experience of how we met.
And I thought, you know what, I,I got to have her on the
podcast, 'cause you've been sober quite a while now.
Yeah. 12 years. 12 years. Amazing.
So, yeah, that's that half year's important.
Yeah, I agree. I'm not being sarcastic.
I, I like, I really every time Isay I relapsed, like, I was
like, I had 7 1/2 years, not 7, you know, 7 1/2.
(03:13):
That was a long, hard half year because I don't know, for people
like us, maybe you can relate. Like, I couldn't even imagine
getting a few minutes together at one point in my life.
So that half year is a miracle. The day is a miracle, right.
So thanks so much for coming. Why don't you tell us a little
bit about your story, how you came into recovery, and what
your life is like today? Thank you so much for having me.
(03:36):
Yeah, I do think that it was a little bit divine, us meeting in
the lounge before we got on the plane and then sitting right
next to each other. And that's kind of like one of
the wonderful things I think about recovery and sobriety is
the way that it connects me to people and the community that I
find almost everybody, almost every single one of my friends
(03:56):
is also sober. And I love them all so much.
And like, I'm so grateful for that.
And actually, so the person who got me sober was my best friend
from high school. I, I think I always like to
party. Like I always like to have fun.
(04:17):
It was the first thing that really made me feel a part of
the world. You know, I was a nerdy, weird
kind of kid and I was seeking escape before I ever found drugs
or alcohol. I often say that the first thing
I found was books. I would read obsessively.
I would read for hours. I would read till dawn.
(04:40):
And it was the one way that whenI was 11, I could get out of how
I was feeling because the way I was feeling was not good.
I remember the first time that Iwanted to kill myself.
I was like 11 years old. And so when I got to high school
and I made friends and I, I started partying, it was like my
(05:01):
life opened up. And I really feel like at that
time it, it saved my life, you know, before drinking ruined my
life. It got me through when I really
didn't have anything else and itwas fun.
I think that that's one thing that I, I like to remind myself
(05:21):
of like I can be stupid, but I am not stupid.
And I, I drank because it did something for me.
Like it helped me. I needed it, you know, and then
I of course took it way too far and it became a problem and I
couldn't stop and like all of that stuff.
But before it hurt me, it reallyhelped me.
(05:42):
And so I, I just like, I like toparty, I like to have a good
time. I like to go out, I like to
dance, I like to laugh, I like to go woo.
I like to take shots. Like I liked all of that stuff.
And it didn't feel like a problem for a long time in large
part because all of the people around me were worse.
(06:02):
They were overdosing, they were getting kicked out of school,
they were getting suspended. They were having the cops called
on them. They were having like, bad stuff
happening and I was doing OK, you know, But they all kind of
fell away, right? And I think that I was just left
(06:24):
as the drunk girl at the party, you know, and what had be
started as something that made me feel connected to the world.
All of a sudden it like it became the only thing that
mattered, right? Like I was going out and I was
drinking and I was around people, but I was not engaging
with the conversation. I was not present.
The only thing I was thinking about was like how how many
(06:44):
drinks I had had? How drunk was I how many more
until I got to where I needed togo holding up the bottle and
like doing the math, how many shots do I have left?
And this constant math of how fucked up can I get right?
And what happened was of my bestfriend from high school, she, I
(07:06):
had kind of made peace with the fact that she was going to die.
She had gone into some very harddrugs.
And it had been like, I was 21 at the time.
And it had been a few years since I'd really seen her, like
laugh or smile or be present. You know, she was kind of like a
zombie. And we had, we had lost a friend
before to an overdose. And so the reality of her death
(07:30):
felt very present. And I had had some, I had had
some bad nights. I had worried for a long time
about my relationship to alcoholand whether I had a drinking
problem. And was the way that I drank
normal and all of this stuff. It was something I thought about
a lot. And I I made myself a promise
(07:55):
that I was not going to drink for a year.
And a little after I made this promise to myself, this friend
calls me and I, I remember this conversation so clearly.
I remember she laughed. And it, it was, I had not spoken
(08:15):
to this person in years. The person on the phone, I had
spoke to my friend, but I had not spoken to the person on the
phone in years, Right? And she was sober.
She was like 2 months sober and we made a plan to go out of town
and visit a friend together and she was going to meetings every
(08:35):
day. And we went out the first night
we got there and we we went to abar with this friend and we were
all hanging out and it was so uncomfortable.
It was so uncomfortable. I felt like my skin was too, too
tight and I couldn't think and Icouldn't be present and I
couldn't talk and I couldn't, I wasn't, I just wasn't there,
(08:57):
right? And like, that's why I drank
because when I had a drink, all of those feelings fell away and
I was able to be present and I was able to be funny and I was
able to be real and I was able to be myself, right, 'cause when
I was sober, there was none of that.
There was none of that. And I remember going to the
(09:18):
bathroom and, and staring at myself in the mirror and
thinking, you can just have one,It's not a big deal, it'll be
fine. But I didn't end up having that
drink 'cause I didn't want to drink in front of my newly sober
friend, Right, Right. Yeah.
And so the next morning, she's, she's going to a meeting every
day. And I tag along for for moral
support, you know, and. I don't have a problem.
(09:41):
I'm helping my friend, I'm helping my friend with the
problem. I'm just here for support.
I'm just here for support, you know, I really want to support
her on her journey, right? And they played this tape and
they said that you're an alcoholic if you can't stop once
you start, which I had known forever.
I had known since the moment I started drinking that once I
(10:02):
started, all bets were off. I did so many things to control
how I drank. I I would only bring out a
certain amount of money. I would only buy a certain
amount of alcohol. I would, I remember drinking
shots of olive oil before I drank to make the liquor like
absorb slower. I remember having steak every
(10:23):
time I drank so that it would I would have something in this my
stomach so I wouldn't get so drunk.
I would avoid certain liquors, like all of the stuff, all of
the stuff control it. And so when they said that I was
like, well, yeah, like I I knew that.
And then they said the other piece, though, is like, that
would be fine. That would be fine if I didn't
start drinking. But I always started drinking,
(10:44):
right? I always started drinking
thinking this time it'll be different.
And they said that the second piece is that you can't stay
stopped. And in that moment, I understood
what had happened the night before when I was having that
conversation in the mirror. And I burst into tears.
And I thought my life was over. I really thought my life was
over. I was 21 and I had never had a
(11:07):
good time without alcohol in my system, right?
Like it was the centerpiece of my life.
It was my best friend. It was, I didn't know that you
could have fun without it. And being 21, I would.
There was not a lot of people around who did have fun without
it. And I remember my friend said,
(11:28):
I'm so happy for you. And I said, what are you talking
about? This is the worst day of my
life. Like my life is over, right?
But she was right. She was right 'cause I came home
and I didn't get sober right away.
I had a few times where I thought maybe I can control it
(11:54):
and I would, you know, have two drinks and I would hold on tight
and I would go to bed and I would think an alcoholic.
But inevitably, when I drank theway I wanted to drink, the the
same thing would happen. And it wasn't until I really got
serious and joined a fellowship and did some work and did a set
(12:15):
of steps that everything startedto change.
For me. Because it was so young,
identifying as an alcoholic was a little bit tricky, but I went
crazy When I stopped drinking. I was emotionally like so all
(12:37):
over the place. I was crying one minute and then
laughing the next. I was so anxious and
uncomfortable. There were days that just felt
like hell on earth. And I remember thinking, this is
not a normal reaction to not drinking anymore.
This is not a normal reaction tonot having alcohol in my system.
And so I was able to identify bywhat sobriety felt like, by what
(13:00):
being dry felt like, and how abnormal that that reaction was,
you know, because what I realized is how much I needed
alcohol to fix whatever was going on with me.
Sorry, so you identified with other people or with the fact
that maybe I'm an alcoholic because I this is like, I'm so
(13:21):
in, I don't know, combat with myself when.
I'm super the latter, right? Like I think that if I wasn't an
alcoholic then easy peasy, I would stop drinking and the
problems would go away. I would feel better, right
'cause I would remove the problem and then everything
would be good. And in fact what happened is I
(13:43):
removed the problem and everything got worse because I
no longer had a way to fix how Ifelt.
A. Solution.
I no longer had a solution, right?
And so, you know, I haven't in sobriety, like I, I haven't
always had done the things that I was supposed to do.
I, and to this day, I can still remind myself that I'm an
(14:06):
alcoholic and I need to work on that because of how it feels
when I don't work on it, becauseof how irritable I get, because
of how uncomfortable I get, because of how crazy I get.
And like, if I ever have a moment when I think it's been 12
1/2 years, I'm a very different person than I was when I stopped
(14:27):
drinking, right? Which is true.
Yeah. I can think about what it feels
like when I, when I don't do thework recovery.
Yeah, when I don't do recovery. And that is not how a non
alcoholic feels when they don't do recovery.
That is not how a non alcoholic feels when they don't have a
(14:48):
solution because they don't needa solution, right.
And so, you know, I, it was the first year was crazy.
I did have to be hospitalized because my suicidal ideation was
so bad. I think I had two tools in my
toolbox, suicide and alcohol. And you took away alcohol.
(15:11):
And it was just like, I just didn't want to be here anymore.
You know, I just didn't want to be here anymore.
But I got the help that I neededfor that, and I continued to do
the work. And I found that I was able to
develop other coping skills, andI was able to, you know, fill
the hole inside of me that I hadbeen pouring alcohol all over
(15:34):
since I had been like, 13 years old, you know?
Wow, thank you for sharing that.That's that was amazing.
You know what, I, I, I needed tohear that today.
I think that piece about I neverheard somebody, I haven't heard
somebody say it quite like that.Where, but I, I definitely
resonate with that, where it's like when the average person
(15:56):
stops putting drugs, alcohol, whatever the hell, gambling,
sex, whatever in their body, thesolution like automatically
appears and it's just like, oh, well, that was, that was close,
right? That was a close call.
But the way you described, you know, resonating with that
feeling of you take away the drugs and the alcohol.
(16:17):
And because I can relate to thatwhen I don't work on my recovery
today. And it's, you know, it's not
just going to meetings, it's notjust, you know, 12 step work.
It's there's a whole gambit of things that I have to do
connecting with people, you know, connecting with a mentor
in, in, you know, on a daily basis.
Even I feel significantly worse when I'm not working on my
(16:37):
recovery in that aspect. Then when I when I am, it's like
a it's night and day, right? And so I appreciate you.
You kind of painting a a nice picture with that, that that's
really nice. Yeah.
It's like I can't relate to whatall these people are going
through when I come in and I came out at 23, so, you know,
(16:59):
21. I can only imagine, right?
Like you come in and there's allthese old people, you know,
getting sober and have jobs and cars and you don't notice like
the, the people in the corners, right, that are, have like that
are like you, you notice all thepeople that are coming up and
talking to you in 20 years. That's all I heard, right?
It's like 20 years, 30 years. I'm like, what the like, why are
you still here, man? Like, why are you still coming
(17:21):
here, right? That was my first reaction when
I came in. And so I was always taught to
notice the similarities and not the differences, right?
It's something that I struggle with today because it's very
easy to to look at the differences, right?
You mentioned getting outside help.
I think that that's really important in recovery too.
How did you go about doing that?Like how did you even know you
needed that? What did you come to a point in
(17:42):
recovery where you're like, maybe, maybe there's other bases
I need to cover and not just this drinking problem?
I mean, what happened was I was.I wanted to die so badly.
I wanted to die so badly. Fantasizing about killing myself
was the only thing that gave me relief in that moment, right?
And the hysterical crying would start when I thought of all the
(18:07):
reasons I couldn't do it and at what that meant about having to
continue to feel the way that I was feeling.
And so I got, I, I called my dadand I said like I, I need to go
to the hospital. I need to go to the hospital.
And so we, we went to CAMH and they admitted me and I got some
time to kind of level out. And, you know, I have done
(18:33):
therapy on and off over the years.
The the program 12 step fellowship doesn't fix
everything. Yeah.
Sometimes, though, like, it getsme to the door.
Yeah. You know, I think that it can
show me where I need to go and like, that's the power of it.
(18:54):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, and then somebody else
takes it from there. But it can't fix everything for
me. Yeah.
Yeah, it's a good point, though.It, it kind of shines light
though on these problems. And it it's like, I can't be the
only one going through this, right?
I can't be there's. And it's I've learned that today
it's like whatever I'm going through, somebody has done it,
gone through it, gone through worse.
(19:15):
I've come to realize that, you know, the longer I stay sober.
I also, I resonated a lot with, you know, hanging out with
people that, you know, we're worse than you.
We kind of choose these like lower companions as it as it
says, right? And how did you, so I guess how
did you find the new community in recovery, especially at the
(19:36):
age of 21? Like what did you do for that?
How did that happen? Well, the hilarious thing is
that like, actually a lot of those people ended up also in
program. That's great, yeah.
Also in program, you know, a newperson would walk in the door
and we'd be like, hey, nice to see you again.
But at that time, there were a lot of young women getting sober
(19:58):
and. That that was the thing, like I
thought my life was over. And really it, it just began
because we would go out dancing,we'd go to concerts, we would do
stuff. And I was not doing stuff right.
I remember the first time I wentto a concert and I remembered
the end of it and I was like, oh, this is like so much better.
This is so much better because yes, I was sober, but I was also
(20:19):
22 by this point. And so that meant having fun and
getting out there and doing things and staying up till 4:00
in the morning and drinking too much Red Bull and like all of
all of the stuff. And I actually found that I had
so much more fun and did so muchmore once I stopped, you know,
(20:40):
drinking alone in the basement, which was where it ended up.
It's just different, right? Like it's just, it's totally
different. I feel like I had to get past
this. I don't know it, you know, I was
thinking about it today, but playing the tape through it's,
you hear it so much and sometimes it's overused, but
it's, it's so true. Like whenever I walk by on the
(21:00):
patio and I see somebody having a, a beer and that thought comes
into my mind where I'm like, oh,what?
And thank God, it's, it's betternow.
It's more fleeting. It's, you know, like I have
tools to deal with it, but it, oh, wouldn't it be nice if I
could have a beer on the patio like that guy, you know?
And then I'm quickly reminded ofwhat the next six hours, 6 days,
(21:21):
six months look like after having that one beer, right?
So I just, I feel like there's like any time I'm having these
triggers or, or urges, I just have to stop and really be
honest with myself, right? And think like I don't drink
like the Bud Light commercial. And moreover, like, do I want to
have one beer? Because I never liked having
(21:44):
one. I never liked having one.
The reality is the way that I want to drink because I want to
get fucked up, that's how I wantto drink.
My my mom's not an alcoholic at all.
And she stops when she starts tofeel something.
Right. Like that's actually a normal
way to drink. Yeah.
(22:05):
And so I at a certain point haveto ask myself, like, if I really
want to drink, like what we usedto joke and say, I wish I
weren't an alcoholic. I would drink every day.
Right. I love that.
Yeah. You know, I love that.
And so like, why do I want this so badly?
Because if I'm, if I have a normal relationship to alcohol,
(22:27):
then I should be able to take orleave it.
I shouldn't be willing to burn my life to the ground because
maybe it'll be fine. I shouldn't be willing to take
that risk. And, and it's a lot of it is
like ego to me today too, where it's like, I just want to have,
I want to be able to control everything in my life, right.
And some days sobriety, alcohol,substances feels like the last
(22:50):
thing, right? Where it's like I can control
and you know, I not that I can control everything, but it's
like it's the one thing that kind of really took me down
where your ego kind of comes in and it's like you still have a
chance, right? You haven't lost yet, right?
And it's like this battle back and forth where, you know, I, I
have the opportunity to be able to control the thing that took
(23:11):
me down, right. And that's why they say when you
come in here, there has to be noreservation, no lurking notion
that somehow someday I can drinklike a normal person.
Because, yeah, to your point, when I see my wife or when I see
my mom, like leaving this much alcohol left on it.
And it just blows my mind. And I'm telling someone like,
Can you believe that? And they're like, why it was
(23:31):
she, it was warm. Like, she probably didn't like
it, right. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm an
alcohol. I'm coming at her.
I wanted to ask you something because I saw this on Instagram
the other day and I, I have my answer, but I want to hear your
answer. My total identity is not that
I'm an alcoholic, right? But at the same time, it's very
(23:54):
easy for me to skirt around thata little bit and be like, I'm
not an alcoholic anymore at all,right?
There's, there's like a balance between that.
What do you like when you say you're an alcoholic or an addict
or whatever? What is your identity, I guess
around that? And what do you think about
like, because I and you know, just some quick context that
someone on the on Instagram the other day was like, I don't
(24:16):
identify as it's not my identity.
I'm not an alcoholic, but you know what I mean?
And I was like, Oh, that's dangerous.
Like maybe if you relapse like Idid, you would say that you, you
know what I mean. So what's your thought on?
That I think that it's a filter,right?
Like it's one of many. It's not the totality of who I
am, right? I am my sister, I'm a Scorpio,
(24:38):
you know, I I'm a Canadian. I am I am like many things and
one of those things is an alcoholic.
And so it is something that I just need to keep in mind as I
go through the world. It is something that I really
need to keep in mind when I encounter anything that has the
(24:58):
opportunity to change my mind state.
I really need to keep in mind there, right?
But it's just something that I kind of need to keep in mind as
I go through the world. Just like I when I'm hungry, I
get, I'm so irritable and so angry, right.
And so when I'm hungry, I just need to be careful about how I
(25:22):
go through the world. You know, I it's just, it's it's
a piece of me. It's not all of me, but it is a
piece of me that needs to be present on a low level kind of
all the time. Yeah.
You know, Yeah. And you know, I, that was, yeah,
well said. I, I think that it's especially
true because there's this kind of like I said, this dangerous
(25:44):
zone where it's like, well, if I'm not an alcoholic now I have
a back door, right? Or if that's not my whole
identity, then what piece of it is me?
And then I, you know, there's these like mental math, like you
said in your head where you're like, well, maybe I'm only 5%
alcohol, you know what I mean? So it's like you start
justifying and then you're like,well, if I'm only 5% alcohol,
then that means I can have half a beer or a sip of beer and be
OK. I don't know, that's just the
way my brain, I could see myselflike getting into that
(26:06):
situation. So it's a good point.
And I like what you said about, you know, whenever I get go
through really tough situations or mind altering situations, I
know what'll fix this quick, right?
And for me it's, you know, alcohol, yes, but more so like
any kind of stimulant is is likewhat'll make me more present.
(26:28):
You mentioned in the beginning make me myself, right, You know,
fit into a room perfectly like apuzzle.
People are laughing at my jokes more.
And then I don't know, if I lookback now, that was maybe 10
minutes of my whole drinking andusing career was that if I
looked from the outside and saw myself at the bar, I'd probably
say it's yeah, like 2 to 5% of that time was me in that
(26:52):
scenario, fitting in, having fun.
And then it just went downhill from there, right?
I want to talk a little bit about faith and spirituality.
I've been trying to incorporate that a little bit more because I
love this topic. I think it's so important.
And when I was in rehab this last time and many times before
that, but this time especially, I noticed it, you know, when
they bring in people to speak inthe, in the rehab, every single
(27:15):
person that came in talked abouttheir higher power, their
spirituality, their God. And it's important to me today.
I pray everyday. I have my own understanding of a
higher power. What is faith to you?
What is spirituality look like? For sure.
I so I've recently been on a little bit of a journey with it.
(27:35):
I think I got sober and I had a very uncomplicated relationship
with my hair power where I believe that kind of everything
happens for a reason and it'll all work out and it's all for
the best and kind of all of those things, right?
And that was, that was proven bythis experience of this thing
that I thought was really terrible getting sober, right?
And it and it being amazing in the end and then, you know, not
(28:00):
getting a job and getting a better job and like kind of
experiences like that. Where there was a
disappointment. And then something better
happened. And then when I was I, so I got
married to somebody I meant in the program.
And it was very wonderful for many years.
And then he relapsed. And that set off over like
(28:23):
several years of, you know, it. Things would improve.
And then there would be another relapse and things would
improve. And then there would be another
relapse. And things got very bad.
Things got very, very bad. And I got really, really far
away from my hair power and frommy sponsor.
I think that I couldn't admit toanybody else what was going on
(28:45):
because then I would have to admit to myself.
And if I had admitted to myself what was happening, then that
would mean that my life as I knew it was, was over, right?
Because then some big things were going to have to happen.
So I was just trying to pretend that it was OK and that
everything was fine. And it was very dark.
It was very, very dark. I had no emotional sobriety.
(29:10):
I was just up to my eyeballs in denial.
And I was like in a lot of pain,you know, And it was a very
painful situation. I didn't want to, I didn't want
to accept what was happening because that would mean that,
you know, all my greatest fears would come true.
And you know, they did right? Like we ended up separating and
(29:34):
divorcing and God, it hurt just just as much as I thought it
would. It hurt just as much as I
thought it would. My life.
Like we had been together for like 9 years and we had a life
together and, you know, we got together quite young and every
(29:55):
piece of furniture I owned, we had bought together and every
plan I had ever made for my life.
We started dating when I was about a year sober.
We had made together and I had made with him in mind, right?
And so it was this experience oflike I had felt in many ways,
like starting over, you know, with my life, right?
(30:18):
God. And it was so painful.
It was so painful. He he's OK, he's OK, but we did,
we did get divorced. I think that too much happened.
I'll say that. And so, you know, I walked away
from that like I will always love him.
(30:41):
We, I wouldn't be the person that I am today without him.
He is a wonderful person and I like wish the best for him
always. And I do not regret getting
married to him because that's like so much part of my journey
and there's so many things that I wouldn't trade.
But at the same time, it was like maybe the worst thing that
ever happened to me that divorce.
(31:03):
And so I was in this place where, you know, my life had
fallen apart really in some devastating ways.
And at that time, I, I had some friends who experienced like a
really terrible personal tragedyand some other friends who had
had some really great losses, you know, and I felt like God
(31:29):
couldn't help me, you know, because I looked, I think that
it's easy to say that it, it allhappens for a reason when it's a
job or even when it's a divorce,right?
Because with both of those things, there's a possibility of
something better coming along, right?
Maybe, maybe there's another better job out there.
Maybe there's another relationship or a marriage that
(31:51):
will be a better fit for you andfit for him, right?
You know, and like everyone willbe OK and everyone will be
better off. But when somebody dies,
especially when that person is young, there's no right.
(32:12):
There's no, this is better, It'snot better.
It's terrible, It's tragic. You know, and something was said
to one of those friends that experienced this tragedy, which
was maybe God said to. And I think that that kind of
became the cornerstone of the higher power that I would
(32:34):
develop, which is not a higher power that grants my wishes,
which we always knew, right, butup higher power that is inside
of me and is like with me along for the ride.
And I had this experience when Igot sober of my perspective
changing so greatly that it feltlike reality shifting, right?
(32:57):
Like there were things that I thought were so clearly one way.
And I got sober and I did some steps and I did some work and
all of a sudden the ground shifted and it looked completely
different, like it felt like thefacts of the situation were
different, right? And I think that that is where
my higher power lies in that power, right?
In the way that connecting with my higher power can change how I
(33:21):
feel about the world, you know? And I, I believe that it's like
in other people as well, right? That this is something that's
maybe inside like all of us. And so connecting with my higher
power now doesn't mean that anything's ever going to be
different. Like maybe maybe another better
(33:42):
job won't come along. Maybe another relationship won't
come along. Maybe another thing won't come
along that will like make this all for the best.
But I will feel joy again no matter what happens.
I will laugh again, right? No matter, no matter what
happens, like there will be goodthings again.
And today I feel so connected with my higher power and I feel
(34:05):
so much joy and happiness. Not when I get to when I get,
you know, good feedback at work or I get to go on a trip or
these like big wonderful things happen.
It's instead when I look up and there's like a really beautiful
sunset or I'm out for a run and I'm loving the song and I feel
really fast. And it's like this moment that
(34:27):
that's just so good, right? Or I'm with friends and we're,
we're laughing and I feel so connected to them and I feel so
much love, like both, I love them so much and I feel so loved
by them. And like, I think that my life
is so full of these moments, right?
Of joy that are free, that are cheap and that are here all the
(34:49):
time, right? Like when I cuddle with my cat
and she's like purring and it's so like, it's so wonderful,
right? Or it's a beautiful summer day
and it's so hot and we go and get ice cream and it's just
like, nice to be on Earth. And I think that my higher
(35:10):
power, like connecting with my higher power today, means seeing
and engaging with those moments.Noticing.
Them noticing them and like really being present for them
and really savoring them and letting them mean something, you
know, and who knows about all the rest.
But like that, that I can do. And I think that my higher power
(35:30):
lets me be there for those moments and lets me be present
for those moments. And like, I connect every day
with my higher power in hopes that I will get to live a life
that I am grateful for, that I'mpresent for where I show up for
people, where I'm proud of myself.
(35:51):
And that's like full of, of love, you know?
I love that. Yeah, that was well said.
There's a lot of good stuff there.
I I really enjoy, you know, the ground shifting is a really
powerful metaphor and I experienced that too.
I still do it to this day some days where you said something
was so one way when you came in,right.
(36:12):
And I, I totally relate to that.Like, Nope, I'm doomed.
Like you said, my life is over. I'm doomed forever.
I cannot have fun without substances, period.
Full stop, end of story. You're all wrong.
I'm right. And then I come into recovery
and I'm wait, I could do that sober.
Wait, you can have fun. Wait, you can do this.
(36:34):
And all these things start to, and slowly it doesn't for me at
least it, there wasn't a moment where it was like everything
just changed, right? It was very slow.
And I, I understand that some people do have those
experiences. I'm sure I've had them here and
there, but nothing like completely earth shattering
where I was like a, a new man all of a sudden.
It's slowly, in my experience, over time, one more sunset.
(36:55):
That's a beautiful one too. Because yeah, I can really be
present if I just leave my damn phone at home, you know, I, I
can be present in those moments and really enjoy them 1 sunset
at a time, one hug at a time. You know, one I used to hate
cats and then I had to babysit my sister in law's cat and it it
it purred on me one time and I was like, this is actually
(37:15):
really it's. So good.
I I took a video of it. I was like this is.
Really. Or you come home and your dog is
so happy to see. You you're like what?
Me. Yeah, I'm a piece of shit.
Why? I'm like.
I think that life is so full of those like just tiny moments and
you get used to them and it's soeasy to skirt by them.
So easy. It's so easy to skirt by them.
But like, that's what it's about.
(37:37):
That's what it's fucking. About yeah, absolutely.
How do you how do you tap into them?
I think that I've tried really, really hard to be, you know,
this has been a project, like being present for this stuff has
been a project of the past couple years, you know, right,
Of really like wanting to be there for those and gratitude
(38:02):
lists are a big part of it. You know, when I feel connected
to the moment, like really like sitting in it and like noticing
it and like taking a minute withit and getting like really
honing in on the things that I care about and that I like and
(38:25):
make me feel good. You know, like I fucking love
sunsets. You know, I every time, every
time, it's great. I love ice cream.
I love my cat. Like, what are the things that
are not big, that are small, that I love and like making
space in my life for them, you know, making a point of doing
(38:46):
those things, of ensuring that my life is full of those things.
And also, like I had to, I thinkthere were times when I thought
this isn't working, you know, and it just takes time.
I want everything now. Yeah, same every time I.
Want it yesterday I. Want it yesterday right?
(39:06):
And quick fixes go away quickly.And when I take the time to
build something, it's sticky andit lasts and I just need to
remember that. I really like the I like, you
know, when you're in it, trauma,pain, and it feels like it's
never going to end, you know, rehab, whatever, insert whatever
(39:29):
here, loss, grief, depression, suicide, suicidal ideations.
The idea of just reminding myself that this too shall pass.
And you said that, right? It's like I will feel joy again,
just not on my fucking time, right?
Not on my time, but I will get there eventually.
(39:52):
Sometimes I have to beat that into my head, right?
And that's where journaling comes in and praying and cuz
when it's in here it doesn't work right?
Like I need to get it out there and you know it's hard some
days, right I'm. Like some days we thrive and
some days we survive. And I've heard people say, you
know, my worst day sober is better than my best day
(40:12):
drinking. That is not my experience.
Let me tell you, that is not my experience.
I have had some very, very, verybad day sober but and sometimes
it's just about going to bed andgetting up again and like
getting through because the good, the goodwill come again,
(40:35):
you know? Yeah, I agree with that.
There was a time when I think I felt like that.
But yeah, like there's been somedays I will.
I do always say this though, that it, it's always at least
right Today it's easier for me to stay in recovery than it was
for me to come back into recovery.
Like full stop. Today that might change, right?
I might go through something I will go through something.
(40:56):
I'm sure life is gonna happen. And there's also a lot of
freedom in knowing that that I'mgonna experience loss most.
There's a chance there's a lot of freedom in that because
everyday is like a preparation for that kind of sounds fucked
up, but at the same time, it's like life is going to happen,
man, and you have no control over it.
That's just as good as the big. The good things are going to
(41:16):
happen too, right? If you had control over them,
you would sell yourself short, right?
It's, we say that every time we come in here.
If I could plan my life out for the next 30 years, I would sell
myself short because I've done it.
I've done it before, right? Remember what you wanted, what
you remember when you wanted what you have now.
It's like, I wanted this thing, I wanted this podcast to start
off. I wanted whatever.
(41:37):
And you get it. And to your point, it's like,
what's next? How do I make money?
On it that wasn't. It yeah, this doesn't feel like
I thought it would, right. It almost never feels good too.
When I get the job, the car thatlike it's just I'm like.
Because go ahead, even now when I want things, I have to remind
myself that like, there's peoplein my life that have those
(41:58):
things and I don't think they feel how I want to feel.
I don't think they feel how I think I'm going to feel.
You know, it's not going to fix it.
All of that stuff is not going to fix it.
And like, you know, during thosedark days, I did not drink
because I knew that it would. It would only make it worse, not
better. Definitely were.
You close. I had a moment that was I was at
(42:24):
a work party and it was AI had just joined a new team.
And so I didn't really know anybody.
And my rule when I was getting sober was that one person always
had to know the full story. One person always had to know
the complete story because that was a fail safe, right?
Because I wouldn't have the thought.
(42:45):
I don't want to drink in front of this person.
And that would usually give me enough distance to like get out
of there, make a phone call, do whatever I needed, right.
Yeah. But I did not have that in this
moment. And so we were it was like a
holiday party. And we were at a bar and I
ordered a, a non alcoholic drink.
And they brought it over and it had a straw and I took a huge
(43:08):
sip and it was down before I realized that there was alcohol
in it. And I, I put the drink down and
I felt all warm. And this was like in the, I was
like, not in a great emotional place when this was happening.
And it was not a great emotionalsituation because I was around a
bunch of people. I did not know how to, are you
kind of uncomfortable? Right.
Like so many feelings. But I was a month away from 10
(43:33):
years, and the thought that I had was I got to get 10 years.
And that gave me enough space tocall a friend and, like, get out
of there and go home, you know? Wow.
But I like it. Was it?
Yeah. That was very.
That could have went many different.
(43:54):
Ways that could have went many different ways.
And I just imagine, right. And especially the fact that I,
I I felt warm. Yeah.
You know, you know, that feeling.
Yeah. Yeah.
So, I mean, thank God, that could have that could have
really gone badly. And in retrospect, like I should
have been more careful in, in that, you know, I had gotten so
comfortable being around alcohol, being around people who
(44:17):
are drinking all of that stuff. You know, that's a relatively
big part of my life. Like, I, I like to go out.
I like to do stuff. And so I had gotten too
comfortable, I think, and not recognize the emotional place I
was in because I had a reaction to that accident that was big
and was not the reaction I, I would normally have if I was
(44:39):
like, in a really good, steady, sober, emotional place.
Yeah. And spiritual place, right?
Yeah, yeah, I, I think, I think too, and I'm not going to speak
for you, but I'm, I'm just thinking about in myself and
that because I've been in that situation.
I remember I was at my sister's birthday party and was at one of
the bars downtown and I everyoneknew I was in like no one I'd
(45:00):
known I'd relapsed yet because Iwasn't drinking and I was just
doing my whatever, my Adderall and stuff like that.
And I remember ordering a virginCaesar and I remember her like I
knew she didn't hear me, but I didn't, I didn't like make sure,
right. And so I feel like when you're
in a, in a place like that, you're kind of your guard is
kind of down, right? And you're like, I mean, this is
(45:23):
at least for me, if she screws this up right now, I'm not going
to be upset. You know what I mean?
Like I'm not going to like, Oh well, if I drink, I drink right?
And it's just because to your point, like I'm not in a good
place. I'm not I'm not bringing my
toolbox from from my car into the bar, right?
My my spiritual toolbox, my kid of calling people, telling
(45:45):
somebody everything. That's I had a sponsor that told
me that to make sure, no matter what you do in life, make sure
there's one person on this friggin planet that knows
everything, no secrets, right? And so I try to follow that
today and and, you know, I, I'veoften skirted that and been
like, well, you know, my wife knows everything, but it's like
I got to tell someone in recovery, right?
Because, you know, she's a lot more educated now and she, but
(46:07):
there was times where she didn't, she at the, she didn't
know that ADHD medication could have been a problem, right?
So that's my master manipulator.It's like, no, I got to tell
somebody that knows, right? And yeah, I love that.
I think it's, it's super important to bring that tool kit
in, but also that that's, that'scrazy.
(46:29):
Wow. So you ended up getting to 10
years. That's an amazing moment.
What? What does your day look like
today? What what are like some must
do's in recovery to stay connected and stay grounded?
Prayer every day. Yeah, I should meditate more
than I do. I try and do a gratitude list
(46:53):
every day. That's really important.
Connecting with people, you know, keeping my friends and my
family and the people that I love in mind and being present
for them and showing up for them.
I know that's something I pray for a lot, to show up for the
people in my life. Being of service, sponsoring,
(47:17):
showing up at work or like everywhere, you know, I think
that there's so many ways to do service.
It's not just helping somebody else in recovery.
It's showing up for all of the people who are in my life.
A really big thing is trying to be the person I want to be,
(47:39):
right? And like figuring out what I
value and what matters to me andlike embodying that in every
moment. That is as much part of daily
recovery as anything else. I think, you know, really making
an effort to show up as my best self everyday in all areas of my
(48:02):
life. And then, you know, doing the
work, doing step work, going to meetings, things like that.
Yeah, I think sometimes I have to just service can be as simple
to me today as like, I'm not gonna bring my phone to dinner,
right? Because that's something I've
(48:24):
been struggling with. It's been voiced to me by people
in my life like, hey, you've been on your phone a lot in
public and that's to your like, that's not me showing up at all,
right? So showing up could be as simple
as just for me leaving my phone in the car and being available,
being present, like you said, being the brother, son, husband
that I want to be. When I first came in to
(48:45):
recovery, I had a sponsor say tome, just always, you know, what
kind of man do you want to be? And do your actions reflect
that? Right?
If I ask myself that every day, like I'm in the right direction,
you know, I'm, I'm not perfect, I'm nowhere near perfect, but
I'm making progress, not perfection like you said.
The other thing too, that you mentioned, I, I wanted to touch
(49:07):
too on the, the perspective change because that's so
important. Have you been able to help
anyone that's gone, what gone through what you've gone
through? Has that opportunity presented
itself yet? Nothing really specifically
that's mine, but I do think thatthe feelings are so universal.
(49:29):
Yeah, absolutely. Right.
And so I think that I've been able to help people who have
experienced real bottoms in sobriety, who have experienced
the feeling of their life falling apart, sobriety or who
are struggling with their sense of higher power because things
(49:54):
have that have happened that have like rightfully shaken the
idea of that. You know, So I think that those
are areas where I've been able to like bring that forward.
But my experience is a pretty significant specific 1.
And so it's not necessarily the same as like, you know, I
remember getting sober and people would say, I know exactly
(50:17):
how you feel and I believe them and they would say I feel better
and I believed them. And it was like a weight off.
I haven't necessarily had that that same specific experience
with this, but I do think that there is a nuance that that
experience has taught me AI no longer prescribe to like a
(50:42):
really rigid idea of what recovery looks like.
I think that what I've learned from that experience is just
like how much things can go wrong and you can still be OK,
you know, and how much you can do the wrong thing, which I did,
like I did so many of the wrong things, you know, I was so I was
(51:03):
in denial and I was so controlling and I was so
codependent and I was so much ofall of these things, you know,
and like, it's OK, it's OK. It's not ideal.
It's not, well, the best thing, but like, it's OK, it happens.
You know, there's I think a lot of freedom that I found in that
(51:23):
experience. It's taught me how to be chill
in a way that I was not capable of before.
You know, I think that for many years I was a perfectionist.
It was very anxious. And that kind of beat it out of
me, right? Because like, it felt like the
worst happened and I got throughit.
And so that's a great lesson that like really bad stuff can
(51:44):
happen and. If I can get through that, I can
get through anything. Absolutely.
Like I think I really learned this too from my wife going
through it like me in addiction.I mean, it's really tough, you
know, to watch someone you love go through that day after day
when they know the answers on the other side of the the river,
right? It's like a bunch of people are
(52:06):
just like, hey, come over to this side, cross the bridge.
It's right here. But when we're an addiction and
and active alcoholism that bridge it, it's like this,
right? It's like it has spikes on it
and shit. Like it's, it's literally
impossible sometimes to just make the first step onto that
bridge. And I think I've gotten a new
perspective of how my drinking and drugging has impacted people
(52:30):
around me. So I commend you for that.
Like that's yeah, I that's really, really tough.
But you had to make some hard decisions, you know, but to to
my earlier point is like, that'scool.
What else you got? Like, you know, I could do
anything now. And I, you know, I mentioned
earlier that like, save for my family, like basically everyone,
(52:50):
I love everyone, almost all of them are addicts or Alcoholics
and they're so fun and wonderfuland I love them so much.
And also they're sick, right? Like that's they're sick.
We are, I'm sick, yes, right. We're all sick.
And so sometimes things get crazy, you know, and that's just
(53:14):
kind of how it is, you know, it's not Wellness.
Yeah, as long as I like you saidsome, some days I really I'm
gripping the steering wheel. Some days, absolutely.
I love what you said. It's like as long as I can put
my pillow on the head tonight sober, I've done my job.
Yep. Tomorrow's gonna be different.
It might not be better, but it'll be different.
Yes. Right.
Love it. It's beautiful.
(53:37):
Let's close with this because I usually close with this.
If you could say someone something, if you could say
something to a struggling alcoholic or an addict or
somebody in recovery going through trauma, maybe.
Yep. What would you say to that
person right now? So I would say that I think that
in my very worst moments, I would have done anything to feel
(54:02):
better, would have done anythingto feel better, but I had no
idea what anything was. I had no idea what to do.
I had no idea what to do. And so I think if you feel like
that, if you feel like you woulddo anything to feel better and
to like not feel this pain anymore, there's something you
(54:22):
can do. There's something there is a
solution. You know it exists, recovery
exists. It's simple, but it is not easy.
But like it, you don't, you don't have to live in that pain
anymore. Getting sober was the hardest
thing I ever did. But it's also the thing that I
(54:44):
am most proud of. It is the most important thing
in my life. It is the kind of cub from which
everything else flows. And I think that I would say
that like, you know, it can't get better and it does get
better. Just like reach out.
(55:06):
Yeah, beautiful. Thanks so much for coming down,
Bridget. I appreciate you.
I had a great time today. Thank you.
Thanks. Thanks for listening.
Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe
for more content. The discussions and stories
shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational
purposes only. This content is not a substitute
(55:27):
for professional medical advice,addiction treatment or therapy.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction,
please consult the licensed physician, addiction specialist,
or mental health professional. You are no longer alone.
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