Today’s guest is Natalia Fomichenko, an ICF certified career and confidence coach based in London and the co-founder of La Visionnaire—a thriving community for ambitious international women. Before becoming a coach, Natalia built a powerhouse resume in consulting, earned her MBA from London Business School and Columbia University, and held leadership roles in fast-growing tech companies. But behind the scenes, she was silently struggling with an eating disorder that forced her to rethink everything she knew about success and self-worth. Now in recovery, Natalia helps high-achieving women redefine confidence and build lives on their own terms.In this powerful and raw episode of Recovering Out Loud, I sit down with Natalia Fomichenko—ICF-certified coach and recovery advocate—to explore the hidden layers of food addiction, body dysmorphia, and the parallels with substance use.We discuss:How control and shame fuel disordered eating in sobrietyBody image struggles that continue even after quitting substancesLearning to reparent your inner criticWhat true recovery feels like—and how to reclaim itIf you've ever felt like you "swapped addictions" or you’re silently battling a toxic relationship with your body and food... this one's for you.
Find her here: Natalia FomichenkoICF Certified Career & Confidence Coach | Co-founder of La VisionnaireLinkedIn | Instagram: @nati_fomichenkonatalia@nataliafomichenko.comFollow Us:🌐 Website: recoveringoutloud.ca📱 Socials: @RecoveringOutLoudPod (Instagram, X, TikTok & more)🔗 All Links: linktr.ee/Recoveringoutloudpod💡 Helpful Resources for Addiction & Recovery🇨🇦 National (Canada-Wide) ResourcesCanadian Centre on Substance Use and Addiction (CCSA)Research, policy, and resources on substance use and addiction.Health Canada – Substance Use and AddictionsGovernment info on prevention, treatment, and harm reduction.Canada’s Drug and Alcohol Treatment DirectoryLocate treatment centers across Canada.National Overdose Response Service (NORS)Peer-run hotline for safer drug use support.📞 Call: 1-888-688-6677🏠 Ontario-Specific ResourcesConnexOntario – Mental Health & Addiction HelplineFree, confidential support for addiction and mental health.📞 Call: 1-866-531-2600Ontario Addiction Treatment Centres (OATC)Opioid addiction treatment (methadone, Suboxone).Ontario Harm Reduction NetworkSafer drug use, naloxone, and harm reduction programs.CAMH (Centre for Addiction and Mental Health)Leading hospital for addiction and mental health care.📞 Call: 1-800-463-6273Withdrawal Management (Detox) Services in OntarioFind detox and treatment programs.Ontario 211 – Addiction & Mental Health ServicesConnect to local support services.📞 Dial: 211🚨 Crisis & Immediate HelpOverdose Prevention Hotline: 1-888-853-8542Talk Suicide Canada: 1-833-456-4566 | Text: 45645Good2Talk (For Students): 1-866-925-5454💬 Join the conversation! Share your thoughts in the comments, and let’s recover out loud together.👍 Like, subscribe, and hit the bell for new episodes every week!#AddictionRecovery #MentalHealth #RecoveringOutLoud #recovery #addiction #podcast #sober #sobriety
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud, the podcast
where we get real about mental health and addiction recovery.
Today's guest is Natalia Fomichenko, an ICF certified
career and confidence coach based in London, England and the
Co founder of La Visionaire, A thriving community for ambitious
international women. Before becoming a coach, Natalia
(00:23):
built a powerhouse resume in consulting, earned her MBA from
London Business School and Columbia University, and held
leadership roles in fast growingtech companies.
But behind the scenes, she was silently struggling with an
eating disorder that forced her to rethink everything she knew
about success and self worth. Now in recovery, Natalia helps
high achieving women redefine confidence and build lives on
(00:46):
their own terms. In this episode, we explore the
hidden layers of food addiction,body dysmorphia, and the
parallels with substance use. We discuss how control and shame
fuel disordered eating and sobriety.
Body image struggles that continue even after quitting
substances. Learning to re parent your inner
critic, what true recovery feelslike and how to reclaim it.
(01:07):
If you've ever felt like you've swapped addictions or you're
silently battling a toxic relationship with your body and
food, this one's for you. Please follow and subscribe to
support the channel. We appreciate you enjoy the
show. Hello Natalia, how are you doing
(01:38):
today? Hello, Anthony.
I'm great. Thank you for having me.
Thank you so much for taking thetime you're calling in from the
UK. And yeah, I really appreciate
it. We had a really good
conversation before this and I'mlooking forward to our
conversation today. You know, we, we talked about a
lot of, and we're going to talk about a lot of the parallels
with, you know, food addiction and eating disorders and
(02:01):
addiction in general, right? So I, I want to get right into
it, but how do you think, do youwant to describe, actually,
let's do this? Do you want to describe a little
bit about, you know, your story,how you came into this field and
how you help other people get through this as well?
Yes, sure. So addiction topic is close to
(02:24):
my heart, but it's not the usualaddiction.
It is an eating disorder. So I used to have an eating
disorder for seven years. There are multiple eating
disorders on the market. I had a binge into eating.
I had a binge eating disorder which is basically consuming a
(02:45):
lot of food when you feel down and when you have self
deprecating thoughts. It was very similar to your
usual chemical addiction or alcohol addiction in the sense
that it's the eternal circles ofdissatisfaction, looking for
(03:08):
some pleasure in your life. Going into a binge with food, in
my case, and then feeling distracted during the binge.
But then right after feeling theimmense amount of guilt and not
not liking your life at all, promising yourself that you will
(03:30):
stop tomorrow. And before tomorrow you're going
to just do, you know, twice, 3 *10 times more food consumption
than usual because tomorrow you're stopping.
And then tomorrow you feel so bad about yourself when you wake
up that you just repeat the cycle.
And I live this life. And I didn't tell anyone that I
(03:54):
had this. Only my close people knew, but I
think it's important to bring awareness about this topic
because in in the high chipper world that I live in, which is,
you know, your normal prestigious companies, good CDs,
making it in your career, peoplesometimes think that, you know,
(04:17):
it's it's easy, everybody's capable and everybody is
capable. But sometimes people are
battling things like this when nobody knows and they think that
it's a weakness to admit those things.
And I thought that I shouldn't admit those things and I would
never, I, I would never admit itif if I wasn't out of it, to be
(04:39):
honest. But I think now what's important
to me with this conversation is to show people that problems
exist. It's not just a facade of
success and there is a way out. It's not a very straightforward
way, it's not a magic peel overnight, but there is a way
(05:00):
out and I think it's important to know.
Yeah, no, I I agree. And it's, it's kind of funny.
You know, when I started this podcast, I knew I was going to
Start learning. That was one of my goals was to
Start learning about other mental health addictions, you
know, the whole world of of really mental health and the
different things that people battle with until, you know, I
(05:22):
hadn't noticed until I kind of started talking to you and met
you. I always knew that I had an
unhealthy relationship with foodat one point.
Today I can say that, you know, I don't count my calories.
I don't obsess over my body image as much as as I used to.
And I hadn't realized until I talked to you that, yeah, I went
through a phase in sobriety, youknow, being clean and sober from
(05:42):
drugs and alcohol where I was. Absolutely, absolutely obsessed
with the way I looked. And it wasn't until therapy as
well that I realized, you know, every morning I woke up, the
first thing I would do was look in the mirror at my body and,
and start these, these words of like, oh, you ate too much last
night. Oh, you're swollen, you're fat,
you're. And it was like, it's like this
unconscious conversation I was having with myself every day and
(06:06):
I was starting off every day like that.
And, you know, it was, it was really destructive, you know,
because exactly like you said, Iwould start counting my calories
and say, you know, today I'm going to do better.
And no, I can't go out. And it would start affecting my
social life. And, you know, I wouldn't go to
restaurants and places because Iwas afraid that I wouldn't be
able to control my eating and my, my, you know, my calorie
(06:29):
intake. Or I would go to the gym and, or
go for, you know, 20 mile runs and kind of punish myself that
way, you know? I understand you so much.
I used to work in management consulting and I worked in Saudi
Arabia on projects. So I flew to Saudi.
(06:50):
I would fly to Saudi from Dubai where I was based and I work the
entire day and there would be, it's not much pleasure in my
life. And I would seek for pleasure.
And so I would come back to my hotel room where I was staying
and the mini bar was usually paid for by the company.
(07:14):
And so I would eat the entire mini bar.
And I, I still remember that it's two boxes of nuts.
And I always start with cashews.Yeah, because it's like healthy,
you know, like it's just a little bit.
And then you get to the, you know, half of the, of the box
and then they're like, OK, I'm half through.
So let me just finish it. And then, Oh my God, I've just
(07:35):
finished the box. So now nothing really matters.
So let me get Toblerone, let me get chips, let me get
everything. And so after that, I would go to
the hotel gym. It would be about 11:30 on
midnight. And keep in mind that I was
working, you know, way more than8 hours per day.
And I was supposed to wake up fresh next morning very early.
(07:59):
And I would run there 10K, you know, almost dying just because
I ate that minibar. It was terrible.
Yeah, yeah. I think there's a lot of
parallels between our stories. And, you know, I was always told
by somebody in recovery that, you know, it's the same shit,
different shovel. And I always love that because
(08:21):
it doesn't matter what I use externally.
I'm the exact same as the food addict.
I'm the exact same as the gambling addict.
I'm the exact same as the heroinaddict.
You know, just because I didn't get into heroin yet doesn't mean
that I'm any different. You know, it's using outside,
it's using external things to change my inside, Right.
Full stop. End of story.
So I think there's a lot of parallels, yeah.
(08:45):
And that's precisely the reason for addiction, because we are
using the external tools to change the inside, because the
belief is that we have to changesomething inside.
Because the again, the underlying belief is that as we
are right now is not enough, we need to be better.
And so this belief, this very thought, conscious or
(09:07):
unconscious, produces this feelings of dissatisfaction with
ourselves, with, you know, annoyance with our life.
And that feelings, you know, require action to release this
emotional pressure. And so we eat or drink or do
drugs or whatever. And then we have the result,
which is again self deprecation and you know this hollow, you
(09:29):
know, whole of regret. And the, the, the solution is to
change the thoughts. So because it all started with
the thoughts. And when we think of ourselves
as you know, we are addicts or you know, we are incapable or we
are not enough, whatever resonates with you most, it
(09:50):
means that we are only focusing on what's wrong with us and we
do not even give ourselves a chance to notice what's good
with us. And normally in my experience,
people who are, who have addictive behaviours, they are
(10:10):
very interesting, creative, emotional, sensitive, deep,
thoughtful people. And because their moods and
their outlooks and perspectives and open mindedness is, is
sometimes so high that's, you know, results in, in them being
(10:35):
more anxious about, you know, what's going on and you know,
what's going on in, in them. And so when they, when, when we
those people, when we don't notice there's good things about
us and we only focus on, on the bad things, we will always keep
having the, you know, the repeatcycles.
Yeah, the cycles. The only Yeah.
(10:59):
Yeah, it's, it's this, you remind me of this idea of, of
being grateful, right? Gratitude.
It's pretty damn hard to be grateful when you're noticing
all the bad things in life and, and especially about yourself.
You know, I, I, I really, you know, I truly realize that this
is a, a difficult conversation to have with somebody where it's
like, hey, I have this really unhealthy relationship with food
(11:21):
and I'm not happy about it. How did you sort of get to that
place of recognizing, like what,what, what led you to recognize
that there was a problem? And then how did you bridge the
gap between reaching out for help?
Yes, that's the most important question.
I'm a coach, and that was not bychance.
(11:42):
I became a coach as a result of my own searchings of how to tame
my mind. So that it's not that my mind is
my master, but I'm sort of the master of my mind.
And it took me years, but coaching work as a coachee and
then later as a professional coach helps me understand how
(12:05):
mind works and how I can change this thoughts.
Because remember, everything starts with a thought.
Because thoughts leads to feeling, feeling leads to
action, action leads to results.And if we are not happy with the
results, which is relapse for instance, then we need to change
the thoughts. But again, of course, it's not
(12:26):
that easy to start thinking all the good things about ourselves
straight away. So working on your thoughts
starts with recognizing that we are often thinking very
disempowering thoughts and asking yourself, OK, but if we
(12:47):
are always criticizing, if thereis this inner critic voice that
is always dominant in our head, I'm sorry, but where is our
advocate? Like, I'm sorry, why do we only
have critic? So you start basically almost
objectively approaching to the voices of your head, in your
(13:07):
head to understand who is speaking.
And it takes it's process, it takes time.
So once you build this awarenessand you realize, OK, this is my
critic speaking, this is my critic speaking, this is my
critic speaking, and you don't notice the advocate, then you
start asking yourself, OK, how can I bring the advocate voice?
And then you start noticing other voices.
(13:29):
You know, I have multiple voicesin my head.
And by the way, it's normal. Like I have a diva voice, you
know, she needs to be the best. And, and if if she's for some
reason not the best, you know, acritic comes in and starts
criticizing and there's like multiple, there's a child voice
(13:49):
in my head of like, oh, I'm afraid, what do I do?
You know, so there are multitudeof voices.
And so the first step is awareness of who is speaking.
Now the second step is finding that see your voice in your head
because there's so many voices, but then somebody needs to
(14:09):
manage them. So the idea is that you become
the leader in your own head. So you take you think of
yourself as a company and you have to start leading that
company. Well, you have to step up.
So now you are faced with the question, OK, and who is the
leader? How can I, you know, talk to all
(14:34):
those voices to find out what's they point, what's important to
them, what do they want? And how do I actually make the
decision instead of having the chaos of whoever is speaking,
you know, and doing whatever, you know, anarchy, so to say.
So you have to step up as a CEO in your head and for that you
(14:55):
have to kind of grow up a littlebit because in my case, I've
noticed I spent a lot of time inmy child mode.
It's like, oh, I don't like this.
I don't like that. You know, this is bad.
Oh, like, and this is, this is, you know, it's not like we have
to eliminate any words. Child is great when you are
(15:18):
experiencing something new, whenyou are enjoying the moment,
when you're like allowing yourself to do something fun.
You know, that's where your child steps in.
But then as ACO, you need to understand when and where each
voice is needed and organize them.
(15:39):
And so the second step is to step up as ACO and know which
voice to listen to in which situation.
And once you master that, then you realize that, OK, now I have
full visibility of what's going on in my head and now I can
choose. So there is this choice that
(16:00):
comes up and now I can choose, OK, if I, if I keep thinking
that, then it's likely to lead me in this hole and I'm likely
to binge. And do I, do I want that?
And you know, when you're not ready yet for this conversation
with yourself, then the child would step up and ask, Oh no,
like I don't like this rules. You know, whatever I'll be.
(16:21):
That's what happened to me for so many years.
But once you're ready, once you really nurture this, see your
voice in your head, then you will start feeling this choice
and being empowered by this choice.
Yeah, I, I love that analogy. I've never heard that before.
Thank you for that. That's great.
It's like a company in there, you know, and yeah, there there
(16:42):
is a CEO at the end of the day that can come in and kind of
override and say, hey, you know,little guy or girl, you're not
serving us right now. This is not serving me, right?
And I find that especially true in social situations too, where,
you know, somebody does something to me or somebody
doesn't drive the way I want them to drive or somebody
(17:02):
doesn't agree with my ideas. And this kind of inner ego
child, if you will, comes out and is like, no, I'm right,
you're wrong. And I always say this, but my
biggest problem today is I'm right.
You know, that's my biggest problem is I'm right.
My way is the right way. You're wrong, wrong.
I'm going to do it this way and that kept me sick for so, so
long, right? This, this recovery thing is too
(17:23):
hard. You know I don't deserve this,
right? All these these false beliefs
and negative thoughts about myself.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's out of balance, right?
If you're punishing yourself toomuch, you need to compensate it
by thinking in some point of your life like, I'm the best,
(17:44):
I'm right, I'm, you know, the coolest here.
But then you realize that, well,you're not really the best
because there is not such a notion.
And so you have to punish yourself.
So it's always like being on those extremes that is not
helpful to you first and foremost or to me.
(18:04):
I say, yeah, I've been there. So I I really can relate.
I I agree. So this comes up in the
workplace, which is where, whereyou kind of focus most of your
time. Like what does this kind of look
like when a a person in the corporate world or a person in,
you know, a business world kind of comes to you and, and what
does that look like? It comes to me.
(18:27):
Well, you mean as a coach, Yes. So I do not work specifically
with eating disorders. I have to say what I work with
is getting fulfillment out of your career.
And sometimes it means overcoming an eating disorder
because usually an eating disorder is a, a consequence
(18:51):
either of your mindset or of some deep dissatisfaction with
your life. And in my world, a big part of
life of people I work with is career.
So if you're dissatisfied with your career, even if it looks
great on paper, but then there'sthis inner voice telling you,
look, you know, I'm not really realizing my potential or I can
(19:12):
do more or whatever it is. Then it becomes a constant
source of pressure and sometimespeople escape into drinking or
eating or whatever it is. And so I work to help people get
clarity on day career on what they actually like doing, what
(19:34):
they actually want doing, and give them confidence and right
mindset tools to be able to to do the change and to battle
these inner voices that we all have.
And again, the point is not to eliminate them, but to
(19:54):
understand them because if they're there, then they are
serving you. They have certain purpose.
The critic has a purpose to basically risk manage if, if we
are still in this metaphor of, of a board meeting, so to say,
where there is ACEO, the critic can be the director of risk
management, you know, And so when he's given too much power,
(20:18):
he starts criticizing everythingbecause by nature of his job, he
needs to manage all the risks. And then I don't know who else
your child could be. I don't know, like someone who,
I mean, you can think about the analogy of of the boardroom.
Maybe it's it's it's a strategy director who is great with
(20:42):
vision and and being excited about things, but.
Yeah, like new ideas and creative adventures.
Yeah. Exactly.
Exactly. So you see, you, you have to
understand those voices. You have to understand what you
know, how they're helping you and and find a way to negotiate
with all of them so that's they all work in harmony rather than
(21:05):
in, you know, an artistic mode. Yeah, yeah.
Driving the bus forward, you know, it reminds me, so I was a
manager for a long time where I had a team of people under me
and there was guys, you know, mycompany was, was basically as we
were, you know, KPI, one of our highest KP is was sales.
You know, we had to drive sales,drive leads for, for the sales
(21:26):
team. And I would have, you know, guys
on my team that were not necessarily good at sales, but
they had strengths and strengthsin other areas, like cut
customer satisfaction, you know,and so I love what you're saying
about, you know, this kind of everybody has a role.
You know, the, the child or the critic doesn't need to take a
backseat and, and quiet himself or herself.
(21:47):
They have a role on the team. And so I, it was my job as a
manager or CEO, if you will, like in this scenario that we're
talking about where I just had to find a role all for that said
person, you know, So it's, it's to me, yeah.
It's about finding the strengthsin the critic or the child or,
you know, other, other members of the team and, and applying
(22:08):
them so that we can at the end of the day, we want the bus
moving forward, right? It that's, that's the goal, you
know? Yeah, That reminds me of the
positive psychology concept in which people are encouraged to
look into these strengths and tolean into these strengths more
than to, you know, development of weaknesses.
(22:31):
Because often times, especially in corporate culture, what they
tell us is that these are your development objectives.
And you know, if you don't get better than Bill Ferry
essentially. And so sometimes it's it's
counterproductive because the person would be spending their
time, a, being anxious about this all and B, trying to
(22:52):
improve the things that they arenot going to be the best at
anyways. And they don't have to because
they have other strengths that if they lend in into their
strengths, that they would be really indispensable for
organization. So it's not to say again, there
is no like very extreme views onthat.
(23:12):
It's not to to say that they should completely ignore the
development objectives. And let's say if you're really
jerk to people, you have to keepbeing a jerk.
It's not about that. It's about still prioritizing
your strengths and making sure that you're basically living out
of your potential rather than just trying to, you know, cut
(23:34):
the loose ends. How, how does somebody know if
they're satisfied with their career or not?
Like what kind of things can they start doing or start
thinking about? Because this hits home for me,
especially in the last year where I wasn't getting, you
know, I'm not getting a fulfillment out of my career
path. And I've, you know, I've done
some inner work on it. I've started to realize that
I've basically just been following my, my father's path
(23:56):
in, in, in the professional world, which is fine.
It's treated me well, but ultimately I'm not fulfilled,
right? So what?
What is something that someone can do?
Mm, hmm. Well, so the question is what
somebody can do, not how somebody can know, because it
sounds like you already know. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, either way, like some people don't even know that
(24:17):
they're. So maybe it's a two-part
process. Yeah, well, it all starts with
this voice in inside you tellingyou, well, maybe you know, maybe
it's not, it's not it. Or is that it is that the path
is, is, is, is it where I was supposed to be?
(24:37):
Is it where my 5 or 10 year old self would be really excited
about me being at my current age?
So it it starts usually with this thoughts in your head.
And if you don't have them, great.
I mean, we don't have to question everything.
If you're happy, great. But if you started having these
(25:02):
thoughts, then I can tell you they're not going to go away.
So you can, a lot of people are afraid to, to give them space
because they think, Oh my God, if I start entertaining those
thoughts, I have to change so much.
I worked so hard to achieve thisall and now am I supposed to
start from scratch and you know,all these things.
(25:25):
But The thing is that it's not going to go away and it's not
something to like attack you or or or damage your life.
If this thoughts appear, it means that there is an
opportunity for you to live a better life, to live out of even
(25:46):
more empowered version of yourself if you are ready to
face it. And so people face it at
different times, but when you are ready to face it, then the
first step is to understand who you have become as a result of
your past experiences. I worked a lot with people who
are international, who change lots of countries, cultures,
(26:10):
companies, roles. And so those are very adaptive
people and they, they really learn how to, you know, adapt to
this changing environments. However, what often happens is
that they kind of lose the feeling of who they are in the
(26:30):
process. They, they no longer understand
what's theirs and what's not, what they like or what they
expected to be to to like. And so the first step that I do
normally when I work with peopleis to help them reconnect with
themselves. So answer the questions, you
know, what's really important tome?
How do I understand that that's important to me?
(26:53):
What's the difference between something that I think that's
important and I and I feel that it's actually important.
What what is what is my purpose?Why am I waking up in the
morning? So things like that.
So that's the first step. And then once you realize, OK,
this is who I am. And that's like you.
(27:15):
It doesn't, it doesn't matter whether it's enough or not
enough. What's important is that that's
how it is, right? Once you have this baseline,
then you can think, OK, what? Who do I want to become?
So you take a timeline and you start basically you unleash your
(27:36):
inner dreamer or inner child andyou start thinking, OK, who am
I? Who do I want to be?
You know, and some people actually think that in order to
be someone, you first need to have something or, or you know,
or do something in order to be some, let's say if I want to be
rich, I need to have, I don't know, properties or yucked.
(27:59):
But it's actually the other way around.
If you want to have properties or yucked, you have to be rich
in your mind first, even before it's sort of materialized
because it's it's, it's a part of the mindset.
So this is the work that brings you to think, OK, if I want to
(28:19):
become this different version ofmyself, how does this different
version of myself think about things?
And it must be different becauseif you keep doing what you've
always been doing, you would be getting the same results that
you've always been getting. And so that's is the second part
of the work. OK, who do I want to become?
(28:41):
And then the third part of the work is mindset.
It's empowering from point A to point B.
How do I get there? What inner challenges do I need
to overcome? How do I work with my inner
critic or inner perfectionist? Or if I tend to procrastinate,
what's driving it and and etcetera, etcetera.
And those things are different for different people.
(29:03):
So it's, it's, it's a process. That's why it's, it's always
easier to do it with an externalperson like a coach, because it
helps you expand your mind, because it helps you get out of,
of your usual thinking patterns.It, it helps you to see what's
really going on. It acts like a mural as opposed
(29:24):
to when you're just thinking about it yourself.
And you, you, you just, you havelots of blinds.
We all do. I also have coaches because, you
know, I realize that I have blind spots as as we all do.
And so it's important to expand your thinking in order to really
move forward. Yeah, I, I couldn't agree more.
It's this idea of like altering your perception, you know,
(29:46):
getting another perspective on your situation because I'm one
perspective. The minute I start incorporating
somebody else into the process, that's now 2 perspectives, you
know, and the more people I kindof bounce things off of, that's
more perspectives. And then I can kind of bring all
those ideas of responses together and make an informed
decision that way, you know whatthe, what the.
(30:08):
Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.
I just wanted to say that havingperspectives, of course, is
very, very beneficial, But specifically when you work with
a coach, a coach is not supposedto tell you what to do.
A coach is supposed to ask you the questions that you wouldn't
ask yourself otherwise. So that's certain answers come
(30:30):
out for you that you haven't thought about before, because
essentially the role of a coach is to empower you to solve your
own problems, not to solve the problems for you.
Yeah, yeah, I, I that's a great point.
And you know, that that's like Iwas going to ask the question,
but that you pretty much nailed it.
It's like, what does a good coach look like?
(30:51):
You know, and a good coach to mehas to wear multiple hats.
They have to be a cheerleader. They have to be, you know, hard
sometimes and tell you the the hard truth.
But at the end of the day, ultimately it's not them.
You don't go here, take left, make a a footstep here.
It's it's not that because you and I both know someone, you
know, especially somebody that deals with control issues and
(31:13):
addiction. We don't respond well to tell,
you know, to this kind of dictator, dictator behavior
where it's like, I don't take direction.
Well, you know, I take suggestions better and I take
questions a lot better. Well, why are you thinking this
way? Why don't you?
I want to go to this this party later.
And you know, my partner does a great job of that.
I always say this, but you know,she does a great job of kind of
(31:36):
helping me make an informed decision rather than telling me
what to do. And I think that that challenges
me in a way that helps me to grow, you know?
Yeah. And that's back to the point of
having the CEO in your in your head.
If there is someone who is always playing the CEO and
decides what to do, then you will never grow your own CEO in
(31:57):
your head, right? Yeah.
What does recovery look like to you today, Natalia?
Recovery I always thought that when I will stop having the
bingeing episodes, I would be like in bliss all the time.
(32:20):
Same. Yeah, yeah.
And to be honest, I mean, if, ifI think about how, how, how bad
it all was, I am in bliss, you know, But The thing is that it's
normal life. It's a daily work on your
thoughts. So it's, it's a right food
(32:45):
intake for me. It I still have thoughts when I
approach the point in my meal when I feel like I'm full, but I
still have appetite or it's tasty.
And you know, it's like, it's almost like a critical, like
little signalization starts coming off like, look, you are
(33:06):
at the, you know, critical pointof, of, of being full.
So if before, when I was more ina child mode, I was like,
whatever, I don't want rules. I do, it's my life.
I do whatever I want. So I'll just keep eating
whatever happens. Now I understand that this voice
is telling me to that I'm approaching my my limits.
(33:29):
If I keep doing that, I am likely to be unhappy with
myself. Do I want that?
Not really. And so I stop.
And as you've done it multiple times, it, it might feel
uncomfortable for five seconds, but then it's, it's bearable.
(33:50):
So you realize that you can handle that.
You realize that this minor discomfort you're key to handle
for the sake of not having a bigger discomfort if you are
full. And then also very, very
important point that I realized,even though, you know, I've been
(34:11):
a woman for over certain years of my life, I, I actually just
recently discovered how different my natural body needs
depending on the stage of the cycle.
So, you know, in the second stage of the cycle, for
instance, my appetite increases and I want to have more like
(34:35):
fatty foods, more like something, something oily and,
and stuff like that and and my appetite increases.
What I didn't know is that that's normal and that's
metabolic rate also increases. And so when I had my episodes, I
used to think, Oh my God, I, I'm, you know, I, I always want
to eat. And it was very difficult to
(34:57):
battle. And instead of giving my body
what it needs, as in, you know, healthy fats, I would be giving
it junk food because I would be punishing myself, you know.
And so in those periods, I was the most unstable back in the
years when I had episodes. I know that yes, I'm eating more
when I'm in the second stage of my cycle, but surprisingly in
(35:21):
the first stage of my cycle, my appetite drops and I am just
amazed at how body self regulates.
So I think it's just literally Amanaging your thoughts, B being
in the moment and not stepping into past remuneration of like,
(35:47):
oh, like, you know, I had this hitting disorder in the past,
You know, what would prevent me to have it in the future or not
stepping too much in the future is like, oh, maybe it's
uncomfortable now, but if I if Ikeep doing that, maybe it will
be even more comfortable. And then so you don't think
about the future, you focus on the moment.
And often you realise that discomfort is just a very
(36:07):
shortly. So being in the moment, managing
your thoughts and yeah, and and basically trying to be adult in
in every area of my life, which takes focus out of of the body
thing and food thing and trains you to to A don't expect
(36:35):
perfection, not expect perfection from yourself.
B Notice your strengths and enjoy what you can do and
basically be OK with the fact that you, you, you have, you
know, both sides of the coin. You have certain limitations and
(36:57):
you have certain strengths. And as long as you're OK with
that, then you don't have to punish yourself.
Because The thing is that everybody does.
It's a human nature, so I think it just boils down to accepting
the human nature and yourself and learning how to live with
that. Yeah, yeah, I agree.
(37:18):
There's so many, there's so manyparallels between, you know,
substance use disorder and this food addiction that that is
pretty prevalent. And I think it's prevalent in a
lot of places. You know, body dysmorphia comes
into it. And I mentioned at the beginning
that I've struggled with body dysmorphia.
I still do to some degree, but I'm a lot better at it now.
I'm a lot better at managing those thoughts and asking myself
(37:40):
questions, you know, what is this about?
And I've ultimately found that, you know, there's this, there's
this hole inside of me that is not enough, like we said.
And, and I'm trying to fill it with whatever outside things,
you know, come into play. Are there like what are some of
the common themes that you see with with successful people in
in recovery? Well, they stop chasing
(38:08):
achievement and they start enjoying the process.
I love that. When you chase achievement all
the time, you just leave in yourTo Do List, you always unhappy
and you miss life essentially all the thoughts that you're not
enough, all those circles. You miss the moment because
(38:31):
you're there, you're not here. So once you start enjoying the
process, asking yourself how it feels right now in this very
moment, what am I doing if it doesn't feel well?
Like why am I doing that? Right.
Then you start notice that life is so much more than achievement
(38:54):
or feeling that void life already is.
You know what is and it's it's it's wonderful.
I mean, it's it, I'm getting a little bit as a Turk here, but
that's essentially, you know, kind of spiritual element to
that. Yeah, yeah, that maybe there's
(39:14):
another way to do things, you know, maybe my way is not the
only way. That's kind of the spiritual
side for me, you know? Yeah, It it's, it reminds me of
this kind of notion where once Ihave this, I'll be happy.
Once I have two, one car, my favorite car, I'll be happy.
Now I have the car, it's like, but once I have the boat, I'll
(39:35):
be happy. And it never ends, right?
It's this like, you know, it's kind of like this, this ladder
analogy that I heard one time where it's like there's a empty
bag on the top of the ladder. And every CEO climbs that
ladder, gets to the bag and finds out that it's empty.
There's nothing in the bag. And he, you know, the next guy,
the rookie CEO, the, the guy that's just coming up, he's
(39:56):
talking to the, the veteran, theguy that's been there before and
the guy, the veteran is telling him, hey, there's nothing in the
bag, man. Don't you know it's not worth
it. And like 10 out of 10 times that
young guy or girl needs to go and we'll do it anyways, despite
all the warnings. We'll need to go climb the
ladder and find out for him or herself that there's nothing in
(40:18):
the bag. You know there's this, there's
nothing on the other side, right?
Yeah, I love this analogy. I, I feel like when you have
this thoughts, when I do that, that will make me happy.
It's a, it's an intellectual thought, right?
It's not, it has nothing with the feeling you think that it
will make you happy, but how does it feel to be happy?
(40:41):
Like, can you actually imagine that you feel happy right now?
Can you imagine? Let's do an exercise.
Yeah, yeah, I think, I think it's changed a lot.
(41:03):
It's funny because my brain starts to automatically, and
this is, you know, this is because I'm working a recovery
program, but my brain starts to go for all the little things.
You know, I woke up this morning, I have coffee, I have a
bed to sleep in. I have a beautiful partner.
You know, I have family. I was out for dinner last night
with with one of my uncles who were we've become closer because
(41:24):
as a result of my relapse and, and, and addiction, you know,
he's he's supporting me more. And yeah, it's it's a beautiful
thing. You know, I'm not thinking about
all the stuff that I have or thecomputer or, or the the job or
anything like that. My mind immediately goes to, you
know, I think back to all the moments I've if I, if you're
asked, if you were to ask me, remember a moment you were last
(41:47):
happy. I think about places, you know,
I think about my, my the cottagethat we have that is on the lake
and I think about the vacations that I've been on in Europe.
That's. So you see, you think a lot, you
try to recall images or events. But what if you try to focus on
(42:09):
the body sensations? Like if you felt very, very
happy right now for whatever reason, what would you feel in
your body? How would you know that you're
not, that you're happy? I wanna my first.
My first answer to that is excited.
(42:33):
This. And when I say excited, it's
hard for me to put into words. It's almost like an anxious.
Anxious like. Feeling.
Yeah, yeah. There's like this anxiety, Yeah.
I love that because The thing isthat physiological response to
anxiety or excitement is the same.
Is this feeling of like for me, it's this feeling in the pit of
(42:54):
my stomach, which honestly, I, you know, when I reframe it as
excitement, it's bearable, but I, I don't like feeling it.
And that's, and that's the thing, because when you only
associate with happiness, this almost anxiety, then you almost
don't want to feel happy in the moment.
And you feel like, oh, when I have this or that or that, then
(43:18):
I will be happy. But you have to learn to feel
that happiness now, because if you don't learn how to feel it
through sensations now, you won't be able to feel it
regardless of the events that are going to happen in your
life. That's amazing.
I never I've never been told that or thought about that, you
(43:38):
know, but you you nailed it on the head.
Like I always, I always, I recall imagery when I have, you
know, when I have thoughts of triggers, you know, and I
haven't had one in, in a bit now, But when I have triggered
thoughts of, you know, I, I missthe way that it's always like a,
a picture in my head of that first hour of the party where I
(44:01):
was having fun. And not even an hour, I would
say like half an hour. It's like that first little tiny
window where I was enjoying the drugs and alcohol and then the
99% of the night was just hell. You know, I, it was absolute
hell. And but my brain will will grab
onto that one memory that quick,you know, enjoyment feeling.
(44:22):
And it's not a body sensation atall.
It's like this. I just picture the surrounding
area of of when I was happy. What what?
So what does happiness feel liketo you?
You mentioned a pit in your stomach, but what what can you
describe that? No.
So yeah. So pit in my stomach is not
happiness, that's excitement. And I don't like to associate
with with happiness for that same reason because it is too
(44:44):
similar to anxiety. I guess my happiness is like I
have to you see, I have to do anexhale to feel it in my body.
That means that I'm not contracting my body anywhere,
like it's just relaxed everywhere, like all goes
(45:06):
freely. And I I'm fully focusing on my
sensations rather than any thoughts because thoughts often
give me anxiety. And so if I am able to switch
off the thoughts because in the end of the day, I'm thinking the
thoughts. So you know, I can do that.
(45:29):
And you can do it with practice in meditation or just sitting
with that. You realize that you know this
feeling. I don't know if, if, if anybody
here ever done ecstasy when you know, when you're on.
Yeah, that was my other joke. When you're on this wave of like
(45:51):
it, it's coming up, you know your thoughts just leave your
head and you feel this relaxation.
Your breast goes, you know, flows freely.
You smile You. You are not distracted by
anxious thoughts. You.
Feel. Worms, you're fully present
exactly. So that's the happiness, but you
don't need ecstasy to feel that.And so focusing like switching
(46:20):
back, like if you feel anxious or if you feel any think any
self deprecating, deprecating thoughts, that's the sign that
you're too much in your thoughts.
Your mind is writing you. So that's your sign to switch
into the body. And for me, what works is is
starting to breathe like slowly,like noticing any contraction
(46:44):
and and just releasing it. And that's puts me in the state
of relaxation. And like, you know, I used to be
afraid of public speaking and podcasting is public speaking
for me. But right now I don't have any
anxiety whatsoever because I just allow my breath to flow.
(47:09):
So being in the present moment and being in your body, that's,
that's the only way out. Yeah.
And that takes practice, right? It's, it's, it's not easy.
It's simple, but it's not easy. A lot like this recovery program
that I work, I was always taughtand told that it's simple, not
easy, and we like to overcomplicate it.
And sometimes it's just meditating and sitting with your
thoughts. But I find that meditation gets
(47:31):
easier after I practice it more.And it doesn't have to be a 20
minute, you know, on a pillow every morning.
I was taught that, you know, it can start with three breaths in
the morning. But to your point, I'm focusing
on my breaths, not what I have to do today.
Exactly, exactly. And, and at least that was the
case with me when I was when I was trying to focus on my
(47:51):
breasts, I was like, OK, I'm focusing on my breasts now.
How long do I need to do? It's annoying.
Like I could have done so many other things with that.
So that's, that's your mind speaking.
Try to find something that feelsnice in the body.
Like for me actually one of the things that helps me was was
stretching. You know, like when you stretch,
you naturally want to breathe deeply because you just want to
(48:14):
release. Also, what helps me personally
is talking to yourself during that stretching moments.
It's like it's safe, you know, like this safety feeling because
essentially if we are not flexible, that means that our
body is too contracted. And so in order to to make it
(48:35):
more flexible, you need to release this contraction.
You need to breeze into the stretch.
You need to tell yourself that it's safe to stretch.
And this phrase I am safe does wonders in stretching and
beyond. It's funny you bring that up
because my wife stretches every morning and she loves it and
she's been trying to get me to do it for, for a while now and I
(48:57):
just haven't gotten into it. So maybe I'll revisit that
today. I appreciate that.
OK, Natalia, if you had, you know, there's a woman or a man
or person out there that's struggling with the, the
relationship with food or they're, they have some kind of
eating disorder or they're usingfood to to ultimately feel some
sort of way. What do you say to that person
(49:19):
right now? I would say that you're not
alone and this is your body's way to show you that a change is
needed for you to step in into amore empowered version of
yourself. And that's just your path.
(49:42):
Everybody has something to overcome some sort of crisis in
order to step up. And that's your opportunity.
And it's time, you know? And if you're ready, then you
can choose to do something aboutit.
(50:09):
And if it's not now, it's OK. But you can always make this
choice. And this present moment is
basically you know all you have.And if you don't make it now,
again, that's fine, you can always make it later.
But if you make it, then be ready to experience a different
(50:35):
part of life. And if you need support, you
can. You can find the support that
works for you. If you feel like you would like
to speak to me, I'm happy to, but I'm really excited for what
life is going to have for you, to be honest.
(51:01):
That's beautiful. One thing that recovery has
given me, you know, plain and simple, everyday, full stop, is
freedom, right? This freedom that I have, I can
go anywhere I want. I can do anything I want if I'm
willing to be the consequences I'm not obsessed with.
The only answer is to use or drink today.
And that in and of itself is a beautiful thing, you know?
(51:22):
Yeah. Yeah.
Where can people find you, Natalia?
People can find me on LinkedIn, it's Natalia for Michenko and
Instagram it's Nati under score for Michenko, or my e-mail,
which is Natalia at Natalia for michenko.com.
Beautiful and I'll I'll link that all on the show notes.
(51:45):
Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate you Natalia.
That was a great conversation. I had a a great time.
I learned a lot today. I like I I fully I'm, I'm, you
know, amazed with what I keep learning while I'm doing this.
So I appreciate you. I appreciate the work that you
do, you and your team, and it was a great conversation.
Until next time, thank you so much.
Thank you so much, Anthony, and thank you for bringing awareness
(52:08):
about such a sensitive topic. I really, really appreciate what
you're doing. For listening, please help us
grow the channel and like, shareand subscribe for more content.
The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for
informational and motivational purposes only.
This content is not a substitutefor professional medical advice,
addiction treatment, or therapy.If you or someone you know is
(52:30):
struggling with addiction, please consult A licensed
physician, addiction specialist,or mental health professional.
You are no longer alone.
Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud, the podcast
where we get real about mental health and addiction recovery.
Today's guest is Natalia Fomichenko, an ICF certified
career and confidence coach based in London, England and the
Co founder of La Visionaire, A thriving community for ambitious
international women. Before becoming a coach, Natalia
(00:23):
built a powerhouse resume in consulting, earned her MBA from
London Business School and Columbia University, and held
leadership roles in fast growingtech companies.
But behind the scenes, she was silently struggling with an
eating disorder that forced her to rethink everything she knew
about success and self worth. Now in recovery, Natalia helps
high achieving women redefine confidence and build lives on
(00:46):
their own terms. In this episode, we explore the
hidden layers of food addiction,body dysmorphia, and the
parallels with substance use. We discuss how control and shame
fuel disordered eating and sobriety.
Body image struggles that continue even after quitting
substances. Learning to re parent your inner
critic, what true recovery feelslike and how to reclaim it.
(01:07):
If you've ever felt like you've swapped addictions or you're
silently battling a toxic relationship with your body and
food, this one's for you. Please follow and subscribe to
support the channel. We appreciate you enjoy the
show. Hello Natalia, how are you doing
(01:38):
today? Hello, Anthony.
I'm great. Thank you for having me.
Thank you so much for taking thetime you're calling in from the
UK. And yeah, I really appreciate
it. We had a really good
conversation before this and I'mlooking forward to our
conversation today. You know, we, we talked about a
lot of, and we're going to talk about a lot of the parallels
with, you know, food addiction and eating disorders and
(02:01):
addiction in general, right? So I, I want to get right into
it, but how do you think, do youwant to describe, actually,
let's do this? Do you want to describe a little
bit about, you know, your story,how you came into this field and
how you help other people get through this as well?
Yes, sure. So addiction topic is close to
(02:24):
my heart, but it's not the usualaddiction.
It is an eating disorder. So I used to have an eating
disorder for seven years. There are multiple eating
disorders on the market. I had a binge into eating.
I had a binge eating disorder which is basically consuming a
(02:45):
lot of food when you feel down and when you have self
deprecating thoughts. It was very similar to your
usual chemical addiction or alcohol addiction in the sense
that it's the eternal circles ofdissatisfaction, looking for
(03:08):
some pleasure in your life. Going into a binge with food, in
my case, and then feeling distracted during the binge.
But then right after feeling theimmense amount of guilt and not
not liking your life at all, promising yourself that you will
(03:30):
stop tomorrow. And before tomorrow you're going
to just do, you know, twice, 3 *10 times more food consumption
than usual because tomorrow you're stopping.
And then tomorrow you feel so bad about yourself when you wake
up that you just repeat the cycle.
And I live this life. And I didn't tell anyone that I
(03:54):
had this. Only my close people knew, but I
think it's important to bring awareness about this topic
because in in the high chipper world that I live in, which is,
you know, your normal prestigious companies, good CDs,
making it in your career, peoplesometimes think that, you know,
(04:17):
it's it's easy, everybody's capable and everybody is
capable. But sometimes people are
battling things like this when nobody knows and they think that
it's a weakness to admit those things.
And I thought that I shouldn't admit those things and I would
never, I, I would never admit itif if I wasn't out of it, to be
(04:39):
honest. But I think now what's important
to me with this conversation is to show people that problems
exist. It's not just a facade of
success and there is a way out. It's not a very straightforward
way, it's not a magic peel overnight, but there is a way
(05:00):
out and I think it's important to know.
Yeah, no, I I agree. And it's, it's kind of funny.
You know, when I started this podcast, I knew I was going to
Start learning. That was one of my goals was to
Start learning about other mental health addictions, you
know, the whole world of of really mental health and the
different things that people battle with until, you know, I
(05:22):
hadn't noticed until I kind of started talking to you and met
you. I always knew that I had an
unhealthy relationship with foodat one point.
Today I can say that, you know, I don't count my calories.
I don't obsess over my body image as much as as I used to.
And I hadn't realized until I talked to you that, yeah, I went
through a phase in sobriety, youknow, being clean and sober from
(05:42):
drugs and alcohol where I was. Absolutely, absolutely obsessed
with the way I looked. And it wasn't until therapy as
well that I realized, you know, every morning I woke up, the
first thing I would do was look in the mirror at my body and,
and start these, these words of like, oh, you ate too much last
night. Oh, you're swollen, you're fat,
you're. And it was like, it's like this
unconscious conversation I was having with myself every day and
(06:06):
I was starting off every day like that.
And, you know, it was, it was really destructive, you know,
because exactly like you said, Iwould start counting my calories
and say, you know, today I'm going to do better.
And no, I can't go out. And it would start affecting my
social life. And, you know, I wouldn't go to
restaurants and places because Iwas afraid that I wouldn't be
able to control my eating and my, my, you know, my calorie
(06:29):
intake. Or I would go to the gym and, or
go for, you know, 20 mile runs and kind of punish myself that
way, you know? I understand you so much.
I used to work in management consulting and I worked in Saudi
Arabia on projects. So I flew to Saudi.
(06:50):
I would fly to Saudi from Dubai where I was based and I work the
entire day and there would be, it's not much pleasure in my
life. And I would seek for pleasure.
And so I would come back to my hotel room where I was staying
and the mini bar was usually paid for by the company.
(07:14):
And so I would eat the entire mini bar.
And I, I still remember that it's two boxes of nuts.
And I always start with cashews.Yeah, because it's like healthy,
you know, like it's just a little bit.
And then you get to the, you know, half of the, of the box
and then they're like, OK, I'm half through.
So let me just finish it. And then, Oh my God, I've just
(07:35):
finished the box. So now nothing really matters.
So let me get Toblerone, let me get chips, let me get
everything. And so after that, I would go to
the hotel gym. It would be about 11:30 on
midnight. And keep in mind that I was
working, you know, way more than8 hours per day.
And I was supposed to wake up fresh next morning very early.
(07:59):
And I would run there 10K, you know, almost dying just because
I ate that minibar. It was terrible.
Yeah, yeah. I think there's a lot of
parallels between our stories. And, you know, I was always told
by somebody in recovery that, you know, it's the same shit,
different shovel. And I always love that because
(08:21):
it doesn't matter what I use externally.
I'm the exact same as the food addict.
I'm the exact same as the gambling addict.
I'm the exact same as the heroinaddict.
You know, just because I didn't get into heroin yet doesn't mean
that I'm any different. You know, it's using outside,
it's using external things to change my inside, Right.
Full stop. End of story.
So I think there's a lot of parallels, yeah.
(08:45):
And that's precisely the reason for addiction, because we are
using the external tools to change the inside, because the
belief is that we have to changesomething inside.
Because the again, the underlying belief is that as we
are right now is not enough, we need to be better.
And so this belief, this very thought, conscious or
(09:07):
unconscious, produces this feelings of dissatisfaction with
ourselves, with, you know, annoyance with our life.
And that feelings, you know, require action to release this
emotional pressure. And so we eat or drink or do
drugs or whatever. And then we have the result,
which is again self deprecation and you know this hollow, you
(09:29):
know, whole of regret. And the, the, the solution is to
change the thoughts. So because it all started with
the thoughts. And when we think of ourselves
as you know, we are addicts or you know, we are incapable or we
are not enough, whatever resonates with you most, it
(09:50):
means that we are only focusing on what's wrong with us and we
do not even give ourselves a chance to notice what's good
with us. And normally in my experience,
people who are, who have addictive behaviours, they are
(10:10):
very interesting, creative, emotional, sensitive, deep,
thoughtful people. And because their moods and
their outlooks and perspectives and open mindedness is, is
sometimes so high that's, you know, results in, in them being
(10:35):
more anxious about, you know, what's going on and you know,
what's going on in, in them. And so when they, when, when we
those people, when we don't notice there's good things about
us and we only focus on, on the bad things, we will always keep
having the, you know, the repeatcycles.
Yeah, the cycles. The only Yeah.
(10:59):
Yeah, it's, it's this, you remind me of this idea of, of
being grateful, right? Gratitude.
It's pretty damn hard to be grateful when you're noticing
all the bad things in life and, and especially about yourself.
You know, I, I, I really, you know, I truly realize that this
is a, a difficult conversation to have with somebody where it's
like, hey, I have this really unhealthy relationship with food
(11:21):
and I'm not happy about it. How did you sort of get to that
place of recognizing, like what,what, what led you to recognize
that there was a problem? And then how did you bridge the
gap between reaching out for help?
Yes, that's the most important question.
I'm a coach, and that was not bychance.
(11:42):
I became a coach as a result of my own searchings of how to tame
my mind. So that it's not that my mind is
my master, but I'm sort of the master of my mind.
And it took me years, but coaching work as a coachee and
then later as a professional coach helps me understand how
(12:05):
mind works and how I can change this thoughts.
Because remember, everything starts with a thought.
Because thoughts leads to feeling, feeling leads to
action, action leads to results.And if we are not happy with the
results, which is relapse for instance, then we need to change
the thoughts. But again, of course, it's not
(12:26):
that easy to start thinking all the good things about ourselves
straight away. So working on your thoughts
starts with recognizing that we are often thinking very
disempowering thoughts and asking yourself, OK, but if we
(12:47):
are always criticizing, if thereis this inner critic voice that
is always dominant in our head, I'm sorry, but where is our
advocate? Like, I'm sorry, why do we only
have critic? So you start basically almost
objectively approaching to the voices of your head, in your
(13:07):
head to understand who is speaking.
And it takes it's process, it takes time.
So once you build this awarenessand you realize, OK, this is my
critic speaking, this is my critic speaking, this is my
critic speaking, and you don't notice the advocate, then you
start asking yourself, OK, how can I bring the advocate voice?
And then you start noticing other voices.
(13:29):
You know, I have multiple voicesin my head.
And by the way, it's normal. Like I have a diva voice, you
know, she needs to be the best. And, and if if she's for some
reason not the best, you know, acritic comes in and starts
criticizing and there's like multiple, there's a child voice
(13:49):
in my head of like, oh, I'm afraid, what do I do?
You know, so there are multitudeof voices.
And so the first step is awareness of who is speaking.
Now the second step is finding that see your voice in your head
because there's so many voices, but then somebody needs to
(14:09):
manage them. So the idea is that you become
the leader in your own head. So you take you think of
yourself as a company and you have to start leading that
company. Well, you have to step up.
So now you are faced with the question, OK, and who is the
leader? How can I, you know, talk to all
(14:34):
those voices to find out what's they point, what's important to
them, what do they want? And how do I actually make the
decision instead of having the chaos of whoever is speaking,
you know, and doing whatever, you know, anarchy, so to say.
So you have to step up as a CEO in your head and for that you
(14:55):
have to kind of grow up a littlebit because in my case, I've
noticed I spent a lot of time inmy child mode.
It's like, oh, I don't like this.
I don't like that. You know, this is bad.
Oh, like, and this is, this is, you know, it's not like we have
to eliminate any words. Child is great when you are
(15:18):
experiencing something new, whenyou are enjoying the moment,
when you're like allowing yourself to do something fun.
You know, that's where your child steps in.
But then as ACO, you need to understand when and where each
voice is needed and organize them.
(15:39):
And so the second step is to step up as ACO and know which
voice to listen to in which situation.
And once you master that, then you realize that, OK, now I have
full visibility of what's going on in my head and now I can
choose. So there is this choice that
(16:00):
comes up and now I can choose, OK, if I, if I keep thinking
that, then it's likely to lead me in this hole and I'm likely
to binge. And do I, do I want that?
And you know, when you're not ready yet for this conversation
with yourself, then the child would step up and ask, Oh no,
like I don't like this rules. You know, whatever I'll be.
(16:21):
That's what happened to me for so many years.
But once you're ready, once you really nurture this, see your
voice in your head, then you will start feeling this choice
and being empowered by this choice.
Yeah, I, I love that analogy. I've never heard that before.
Thank you for that. That's great.
It's like a company in there, you know, and yeah, there there
(16:42):
is a CEO at the end of the day that can come in and kind of
override and say, hey, you know,little guy or girl, you're not
serving us right now. This is not serving me, right?
And I find that especially true in social situations too, where,
you know, somebody does something to me or somebody
doesn't drive the way I want them to drive or somebody
(17:02):
doesn't agree with my ideas. And this kind of inner ego
child, if you will, comes out and is like, no, I'm right,
you're wrong. And I always say this, but my
biggest problem today is I'm right.
You know, that's my biggest problem is I'm right.
My way is the right way. You're wrong, wrong.
I'm going to do it this way and that kept me sick for so, so
long, right? This, this recovery thing is too
(17:23):
hard. You know I don't deserve this,
right? All these these false beliefs
and negative thoughts about myself.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's out of balance, right?
If you're punishing yourself toomuch, you need to compensate it
by thinking in some point of your life like, I'm the best,
(17:44):
I'm right, I'm, you know, the coolest here.
But then you realize that, well,you're not really the best
because there is not such a notion.
And so you have to punish yourself.
So it's always like being on those extremes that is not
helpful to you first and foremost or to me.
(18:04):
I say, yeah, I've been there. So I I really can relate.
I I agree. So this comes up in the
workplace, which is where, whereyou kind of focus most of your
time. Like what does this kind of look
like when a a person in the corporate world or a person in,
you know, a business world kind of comes to you and, and what
does that look like? It comes to me.
(18:27):
Well, you mean as a coach, Yes. So I do not work specifically
with eating disorders. I have to say what I work with
is getting fulfillment out of your career.
And sometimes it means overcoming an eating disorder
because usually an eating disorder is a, a consequence
(18:51):
either of your mindset or of some deep dissatisfaction with
your life. And in my world, a big part of
life of people I work with is career.
So if you're dissatisfied with your career, even if it looks
great on paper, but then there'sthis inner voice telling you,
look, you know, I'm not really realizing my potential or I can
(19:12):
do more or whatever it is. Then it becomes a constant
source of pressure and sometimespeople escape into drinking or
eating or whatever it is. And so I work to help people get
clarity on day career on what they actually like doing, what
(19:34):
they actually want doing, and give them confidence and right
mindset tools to be able to to do the change and to battle
these inner voices that we all have.
And again, the point is not to eliminate them, but to
(19:54):
understand them because if they're there, then they are
serving you. They have certain purpose.
The critic has a purpose to basically risk manage if, if we
are still in this metaphor of, of a board meeting, so to say,
where there is ACEO, the critic can be the director of risk
management, you know, And so when he's given too much power,
(20:18):
he starts criticizing everythingbecause by nature of his job, he
needs to manage all the risks. And then I don't know who else
your child could be. I don't know, like someone who,
I mean, you can think about the analogy of of the boardroom.
Maybe it's it's it's a strategy director who is great with
(20:42):
vision and and being excited about things, but.
Yeah, like new ideas and creative adventures.
Yeah. Exactly.
Exactly. So you see, you, you have to
understand those voices. You have to understand what you
know, how they're helping you and and find a way to negotiate
with all of them so that's they all work in harmony rather than
(21:05):
in, you know, an artistic mode. Yeah, yeah.
Driving the bus forward, you know, it reminds me, so I was a
manager for a long time where I had a team of people under me
and there was guys, you know, mycompany was, was basically as we
were, you know, KPI, one of our highest KP is was sales.
You know, we had to drive sales,drive leads for, for the sales
(21:26):
team. And I would have, you know, guys
on my team that were not necessarily good at sales, but
they had strengths and strengthsin other areas, like cut
customer satisfaction, you know,and so I love what you're saying
about, you know, this kind of everybody has a role.
You know, the, the child or the critic doesn't need to take a
backseat and, and quiet himself or herself.
(21:47):
They have a role on the team. And so I, it was my job as a
manager or CEO, if you will, like in this scenario that we're
talking about where I just had to find a role all for that said
person, you know, So it's, it's to me, yeah.
It's about finding the strengthsin the critic or the child or,
you know, other, other members of the team and, and applying
(22:08):
them so that we can at the end of the day, we want the bus
moving forward, right? It that's, that's the goal, you
know? Yeah, That reminds me of the
positive psychology concept in which people are encouraged to
look into these strengths and tolean into these strengths more
than to, you know, development of weaknesses.
(22:31):
Because often times, especially in corporate culture, what they
tell us is that these are your development objectives.
And you know, if you don't get better than Bill Ferry
essentially. And so sometimes it's it's
counterproductive because the person would be spending their
time, a, being anxious about this all and B, trying to
(22:52):
improve the things that they arenot going to be the best at
anyways. And they don't have to because
they have other strengths that if they lend in into their
strengths, that they would be really indispensable for
organization. So it's not to say again, there
is no like very extreme views onthat.
(23:12):
It's not to to say that they should completely ignore the
development objectives. And let's say if you're really
jerk to people, you have to keepbeing a jerk.
It's not about that. It's about still prioritizing
your strengths and making sure that you're basically living out
of your potential rather than just trying to, you know, cut
(23:34):
the loose ends. How, how does somebody know if
they're satisfied with their career or not?
Like what kind of things can they start doing or start
thinking about? Because this hits home for me,
especially in the last year where I wasn't getting, you
know, I'm not getting a fulfillment out of my career
path. And I've, you know, I've done
some inner work on it. I've started to realize that
I've basically just been following my, my father's path
(23:56):
in, in, in the professional world, which is fine.
It's treated me well, but ultimately I'm not fulfilled,
right? So what?
What is something that someone can do?
Mm, hmm. Well, so the question is what
somebody can do, not how somebody can know, because it
sounds like you already know. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, either way, like some people don't even know that
(24:17):
they're. So maybe it's a two-part
process. Yeah, well, it all starts with
this voice in inside you tellingyou, well, maybe you know, maybe
it's not, it's not it. Or is that it is that the path
is, is, is, is it where I was supposed to be?
(24:37):
Is it where my 5 or 10 year old self would be really excited
about me being at my current age?
So it it starts usually with this thoughts in your head.
And if you don't have them, great.
I mean, we don't have to question everything.
If you're happy, great. But if you started having these
(25:02):
thoughts, then I can tell you they're not going to go away.
So you can, a lot of people are afraid to, to give them space
because they think, Oh my God, if I start entertaining those
thoughts, I have to change so much.
I worked so hard to achieve thisall and now am I supposed to
start from scratch and you know,all these things.
(25:25):
But The thing is that it's not going to go away and it's not
something to like attack you or or or damage your life.
If this thoughts appear, it means that there is an
opportunity for you to live a better life, to live out of even
(25:46):
more empowered version of yourself if you are ready to
face it. And so people face it at
different times, but when you are ready to face it, then the
first step is to understand who you have become as a result of
your past experiences. I worked a lot with people who
are international, who change lots of countries, cultures,
(26:10):
companies, roles. And so those are very adaptive
people and they, they really learn how to, you know, adapt to
this changing environments. However, what often happens is
that they kind of lose the feeling of who they are in the
(26:30):
process. They, they no longer understand
what's theirs and what's not, what they like or what they
expected to be to to like. And so the first step that I do
normally when I work with peopleis to help them reconnect with
themselves. So answer the questions, you
know, what's really important tome?
How do I understand that that's important to me?
(26:53):
What's the difference between something that I think that's
important and I and I feel that it's actually important.
What what is what is my purpose?Why am I waking up in the
morning? So things like that.
So that's the first step. And then once you realize, OK,
this is who I am. And that's like you.
(27:15):
It doesn't, it doesn't matter whether it's enough or not
enough. What's important is that that's
how it is, right? Once you have this baseline,
then you can think, OK, what? Who do I want to become?
So you take a timeline and you start basically you unleash your
(27:36):
inner dreamer or inner child andyou start thinking, OK, who am
I? Who do I want to be?
You know, and some people actually think that in order to
be someone, you first need to have something or, or you know,
or do something in order to be some, let's say if I want to be
rich, I need to have, I don't know, properties or yucked.
(27:59):
But it's actually the other way around.
If you want to have properties or yucked, you have to be rich
in your mind first, even before it's sort of materialized
because it's it's, it's a part of the mindset.
So this is the work that brings you to think, OK, if I want to
(28:19):
become this different version ofmyself, how does this different
version of myself think about things?
And it must be different becauseif you keep doing what you've
always been doing, you would be getting the same results that
you've always been getting. And so that's is the second part
of the work. OK, who do I want to become?
(28:41):
And then the third part of the work is mindset.
It's empowering from point A to point B.
How do I get there? What inner challenges do I need
to overcome? How do I work with my inner
critic or inner perfectionist? Or if I tend to procrastinate,
what's driving it and and etcetera, etcetera.
And those things are different for different people.
(29:03):
So it's, it's, it's a process. That's why it's, it's always
easier to do it with an externalperson like a coach, because it
helps you expand your mind, because it helps you get out of,
of your usual thinking patterns.It, it helps you to see what's
really going on. It acts like a mural as opposed
(29:24):
to when you're just thinking about it yourself.
And you, you, you just, you havelots of blinds.
We all do. I also have coaches because, you
know, I realize that I have blind spots as as we all do.
And so it's important to expand your thinking in order to really
move forward. Yeah, I, I couldn't agree more.
It's this idea of like altering your perception, you know,
(29:46):
getting another perspective on your situation because I'm one
perspective. The minute I start incorporating
somebody else into the process, that's now 2 perspectives, you
know, and the more people I kindof bounce things off of, that's
more perspectives. And then I can kind of bring all
those ideas of responses together and make an informed
decision that way, you know whatthe, what the.
(30:08):
Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.
I just wanted to say that havingperspectives, of course, is
very, very beneficial, But specifically when you work with
a coach, a coach is not supposedto tell you what to do.
A coach is supposed to ask you the questions that you wouldn't
ask yourself otherwise. So that's certain answers come
(30:30):
out for you that you haven't thought about before, because
essentially the role of a coach is to empower you to solve your
own problems, not to solve the problems for you.
Yeah, yeah, I, I that's a great point.
And you know, that that's like Iwas going to ask the question,
but that you pretty much nailed it.
It's like, what does a good coach look like?
(30:51):
You know, and a good coach to mehas to wear multiple hats.
They have to be a cheerleader. They have to be, you know, hard
sometimes and tell you the the hard truth.
But at the end of the day, ultimately it's not them.
You don't go here, take left, make a a footstep here.
It's it's not that because you and I both know someone, you
know, especially somebody that deals with control issues and
(31:13):
addiction. We don't respond well to tell,
you know, to this kind of dictator, dictator behavior
where it's like, I don't take direction.
Well, you know, I take suggestions better and I take
questions a lot better. Well, why are you thinking this
way? Why don't you?
I want to go to this this party later.
And you know, my partner does a great job of that.
I always say this, but you know,she does a great job of kind of
(31:36):
helping me make an informed decision rather than telling me
what to do. And I think that that challenges
me in a way that helps me to grow, you know?
Yeah. And that's back to the point of
having the CEO in your in your head.
If there is someone who is always playing the CEO and
decides what to do, then you will never grow your own CEO in
(31:57):
your head, right? Yeah.
What does recovery look like to you today, Natalia?
Recovery I always thought that when I will stop having the
bingeing episodes, I would be like in bliss all the time.
(32:20):
Same. Yeah, yeah.
And to be honest, I mean, if, ifI think about how, how, how bad
it all was, I am in bliss, you know, But The thing is that it's
normal life. It's a daily work on your
thoughts. So it's, it's a right food
(32:45):
intake for me. It I still have thoughts when I
approach the point in my meal when I feel like I'm full, but I
still have appetite or it's tasty.
And you know, it's like, it's almost like a critical, like
little signalization starts coming off like, look, you are
(33:06):
at the, you know, critical pointof, of, of being full.
So if before, when I was more ina child mode, I was like,
whatever, I don't want rules. I do, it's my life.
I do whatever I want. So I'll just keep eating
whatever happens. Now I understand that this voice
is telling me to that I'm approaching my my limits.
(33:29):
If I keep doing that, I am likely to be unhappy with
myself. Do I want that?
Not really. And so I stop.
And as you've done it multiple times, it, it might feel
uncomfortable for five seconds, but then it's, it's bearable.
(33:50):
So you realize that you can handle that.
You realize that this minor discomfort you're key to handle
for the sake of not having a bigger discomfort if you are
full. And then also very, very
important point that I realized,even though, you know, I've been
(34:11):
a woman for over certain years of my life, I, I actually just
recently discovered how different my natural body needs
depending on the stage of the cycle.
So, you know, in the second stage of the cycle, for
instance, my appetite increases and I want to have more like
(34:35):
fatty foods, more like something, something oily and,
and stuff like that and and my appetite increases.
What I didn't know is that that's normal and that's
metabolic rate also increases. And so when I had my episodes, I
used to think, Oh my God, I, I'm, you know, I, I always want
to eat. And it was very difficult to
(34:57):
battle. And instead of giving my body
what it needs, as in, you know, healthy fats, I would be giving
it junk food because I would be punishing myself, you know.
And so in those periods, I was the most unstable back in the
years when I had episodes. I know that yes, I'm eating more
when I'm in the second stage of my cycle, but surprisingly in
(35:21):
the first stage of my cycle, my appetite drops and I am just
amazed at how body self regulates.
So I think it's just literally Amanaging your thoughts, B being
in the moment and not stepping into past remuneration of like,
(35:47):
oh, like, you know, I had this hitting disorder in the past,
You know, what would prevent me to have it in the future or not
stepping too much in the future is like, oh, maybe it's
uncomfortable now, but if I if Ikeep doing that, maybe it will
be even more comfortable. And then so you don't think
about the future, you focus on the moment.
And often you realise that discomfort is just a very
(36:07):
shortly. So being in the moment, managing
your thoughts and yeah, and and basically trying to be adult in
in every area of my life, which takes focus out of of the body
thing and food thing and trains you to to A don't expect
(36:35):
perfection, not expect perfection from yourself.
B Notice your strengths and enjoy what you can do and
basically be OK with the fact that you, you, you have, you
know, both sides of the coin. You have certain limitations and
(36:57):
you have certain strengths. And as long as you're OK with
that, then you don't have to punish yourself.
Because The thing is that everybody does.
It's a human nature, so I think it just boils down to accepting
the human nature and yourself and learning how to live with
that. Yeah, yeah, I agree.
(37:18):
There's so many, there's so manyparallels between, you know,
substance use disorder and this food addiction that that is
pretty prevalent. And I think it's prevalent in a
lot of places. You know, body dysmorphia comes
into it. And I mentioned at the beginning
that I've struggled with body dysmorphia.
I still do to some degree, but I'm a lot better at it now.
I'm a lot better at managing those thoughts and asking myself
(37:40):
questions, you know, what is this about?
And I've ultimately found that, you know, there's this, there's
this hole inside of me that is not enough, like we said.
And, and I'm trying to fill it with whatever outside things,
you know, come into play. Are there like what are some of
the common themes that you see with with successful people in
in recovery? Well, they stop chasing
(38:08):
achievement and they start enjoying the process.
I love that. When you chase achievement all
the time, you just leave in yourTo Do List, you always unhappy
and you miss life essentially all the thoughts that you're not
enough, all those circles. You miss the moment because
(38:31):
you're there, you're not here. So once you start enjoying the
process, asking yourself how it feels right now in this very
moment, what am I doing if it doesn't feel well?
Like why am I doing that? Right.
Then you start notice that life is so much more than achievement
(38:54):
or feeling that void life already is.
You know what is and it's it's it's wonderful.
I mean, it's it, I'm getting a little bit as a Turk here, but
that's essentially, you know, kind of spiritual element to
that. Yeah, yeah, that maybe there's
(39:14):
another way to do things, you know, maybe my way is not the
only way. That's kind of the spiritual
side for me, you know? Yeah, It it's, it reminds me of
this kind of notion where once Ihave this, I'll be happy.
Once I have two, one car, my favorite car, I'll be happy.
Now I have the car, it's like, but once I have the boat, I'll
(39:35):
be happy. And it never ends, right?
It's this like, you know, it's kind of like this, this ladder
analogy that I heard one time where it's like there's a empty
bag on the top of the ladder. And every CEO climbs that
ladder, gets to the bag and finds out that it's empty.
There's nothing in the bag. And he, you know, the next guy,
the rookie CEO, the, the guy that's just coming up, he's
(39:56):
talking to the, the veteran, theguy that's been there before and
the guy, the veteran is telling him, hey, there's nothing in the
bag, man. Don't you know it's not worth
it. And like 10 out of 10 times that
young guy or girl needs to go and we'll do it anyways, despite
all the warnings. We'll need to go climb the
ladder and find out for him or herself that there's nothing in
(40:18):
the bag. You know there's this, there's
nothing on the other side, right?
Yeah, I love this analogy. I, I feel like when you have
this thoughts, when I do that, that will make me happy.
It's a, it's an intellectual thought, right?
It's not, it has nothing with the feeling you think that it
will make you happy, but how does it feel to be happy?
(40:41):
Like, can you actually imagine that you feel happy right now?
Can you imagine? Let's do an exercise.
Yeah, yeah, I think, I think it's changed a lot.
(41:03):
It's funny because my brain starts to automatically, and
this is, you know, this is because I'm working a recovery
program, but my brain starts to go for all the little things.
You know, I woke up this morning, I have coffee, I have a
bed to sleep in. I have a beautiful partner.
You know, I have family. I was out for dinner last night
with with one of my uncles who were we've become closer because
(41:24):
as a result of my relapse and, and, and addiction, you know,
he's he's supporting me more. And yeah, it's it's a beautiful
thing. You know, I'm not thinking about
all the stuff that I have or thecomputer or, or the the job or
anything like that. My mind immediately goes to, you
know, I think back to all the moments I've if I, if you're
asked, if you were to ask me, remember a moment you were last
(41:47):
happy. I think about places, you know,
I think about my, my the cottagethat we have that is on the lake
and I think about the vacations that I've been on in Europe.
That's. So you see, you think a lot, you
try to recall images or events. But what if you try to focus on
(42:09):
the body sensations? Like if you felt very, very
happy right now for whatever reason, what would you feel in
your body? How would you know that you're
not, that you're happy? I wanna my first.
My first answer to that is excited.
(42:33):
This. And when I say excited, it's
hard for me to put into words. It's almost like an anxious.
Anxious like. Feeling.
Yeah, yeah. There's like this anxiety, Yeah.
I love that because The thing isthat physiological response to
anxiety or excitement is the same.
Is this feeling of like for me, it's this feeling in the pit of
(42:54):
my stomach, which honestly, I, you know, when I reframe it as
excitement, it's bearable, but I, I don't like feeling it.
And that's, and that's the thing, because when you only
associate with happiness, this almost anxiety, then you almost
don't want to feel happy in the moment.
And you feel like, oh, when I have this or that or that, then
(43:18):
I will be happy. But you have to learn to feel
that happiness now, because if you don't learn how to feel it
through sensations now, you won't be able to feel it
regardless of the events that are going to happen in your
life. That's amazing.
I never I've never been told that or thought about that, you
(43:38):
know, but you you nailed it on the head.
Like I always, I always, I recall imagery when I have, you
know, when I have thoughts of triggers, you know, and I
haven't had one in, in a bit now, But when I have triggered
thoughts of, you know, I, I missthe way that it's always like a,
a picture in my head of that first hour of the party where I
(44:01):
was having fun. And not even an hour, I would
say like half an hour. It's like that first little tiny
window where I was enjoying the drugs and alcohol and then the
99% of the night was just hell. You know, I, it was absolute
hell. And but my brain will will grab
onto that one memory that quick,you know, enjoyment feeling.
(44:22):
And it's not a body sensation atall.
It's like this. I just picture the surrounding
area of of when I was happy. What what?
So what does happiness feel liketo you?
You mentioned a pit in your stomach, but what what can you
describe that? No.
So yeah. So pit in my stomach is not
happiness, that's excitement. And I don't like to associate
with with happiness for that same reason because it is too
(44:44):
similar to anxiety. I guess my happiness is like I
have to you see, I have to do anexhale to feel it in my body.
That means that I'm not contracting my body anywhere,
like it's just relaxed everywhere, like all goes
(45:06):
freely. And I I'm fully focusing on my
sensations rather than any thoughts because thoughts often
give me anxiety. And so if I am able to switch
off the thoughts because in the end of the day, I'm thinking the
thoughts. So you know, I can do that.
(45:29):
And you can do it with practice in meditation or just sitting
with that. You realize that you know this
feeling. I don't know if, if, if anybody
here ever done ecstasy when you know, when you're on.
Yeah, that was my other joke. When you're on this wave of like
(45:51):
it, it's coming up, you know your thoughts just leave your
head and you feel this relaxation.
Your breast goes, you know, flows freely.
You smile You. You are not distracted by
anxious thoughts. You.
Feel. Worms, you're fully present
exactly. So that's the happiness, but you
don't need ecstasy to feel that.And so focusing like switching
(46:20):
back, like if you feel anxious or if you feel any think any
self deprecating, deprecating thoughts, that's the sign that
you're too much in your thoughts.
Your mind is writing you. So that's your sign to switch
into the body. And for me, what works is is
starting to breathe like slowly,like noticing any contraction
(46:44):
and and just releasing it. And that's puts me in the state
of relaxation. And like, you know, I used to be
afraid of public speaking and podcasting is public speaking
for me. But right now I don't have any
anxiety whatsoever because I just allow my breath to flow.
(47:09):
So being in the present moment and being in your body, that's,
that's the only way out. Yeah.
And that takes practice, right? It's, it's, it's not easy.
It's simple, but it's not easy. A lot like this recovery program
that I work, I was always taughtand told that it's simple, not
easy, and we like to overcomplicate it.
And sometimes it's just meditating and sitting with your
thoughts. But I find that meditation gets
(47:31):
easier after I practice it more.And it doesn't have to be a 20
minute, you know, on a pillow every morning.
I was taught that, you know, it can start with three breaths in
the morning. But to your point, I'm focusing
on my breaths, not what I have to do today.
Exactly, exactly. And, and at least that was the
case with me when I was when I was trying to focus on my
(47:51):
breasts, I was like, OK, I'm focusing on my breasts now.
How long do I need to do? It's annoying.
Like I could have done so many other things with that.
So that's, that's your mind speaking.
Try to find something that feelsnice in the body.
Like for me actually one of the things that helps me was was
stretching. You know, like when you stretch,
you naturally want to breathe deeply because you just want to
(48:14):
release. Also, what helps me personally
is talking to yourself during that stretching moments.
It's like it's safe, you know, like this safety feeling because
essentially if we are not flexible, that means that our
body is too contracted. And so in order to to make it
(48:35):
more flexible, you need to release this contraction.
You need to breeze into the stretch.
You need to tell yourself that it's safe to stretch.
And this phrase I am safe does wonders in stretching and
beyond. It's funny you bring that up
because my wife stretches every morning and she loves it and
she's been trying to get me to do it for, for a while now and I
(48:57):
just haven't gotten into it. So maybe I'll revisit that
today. I appreciate that.
OK, Natalia, if you had, you know, there's a woman or a man
or person out there that's struggling with the, the
relationship with food or they're, they have some kind of
eating disorder or they're usingfood to to ultimately feel some
sort of way. What do you say to that person
(49:19):
right now? I would say that you're not
alone and this is your body's way to show you that a change is
needed for you to step in into amore empowered version of
yourself. And that's just your path.
(49:42):
Everybody has something to overcome some sort of crisis in
order to step up. And that's your opportunity.
And it's time, you know? And if you're ready, then you
can choose to do something aboutit.
(50:09):
And if it's not now, it's OK. But you can always make this
choice. And this present moment is
basically you know all you have.And if you don't make it now,
again, that's fine, you can always make it later.
But if you make it, then be ready to experience a different
(50:35):
part of life. And if you need support, you
can. You can find the support that
works for you. If you feel like you would like
to speak to me, I'm happy to, but I'm really excited for what
life is going to have for you, to be honest.
(51:01):
That's beautiful. One thing that recovery has
given me, you know, plain and simple, everyday, full stop, is
freedom, right? This freedom that I have, I can
go anywhere I want. I can do anything I want if I'm
willing to be the consequences I'm not obsessed with.
The only answer is to use or drink today.
And that in and of itself is a beautiful thing, you know?
(51:22):
Yeah. Yeah.
Where can people find you, Natalia?
People can find me on LinkedIn, it's Natalia for Michenko and
Instagram it's Nati under score for Michenko, or my e-mail,
which is Natalia at Natalia for michenko.com.
Beautiful and I'll I'll link that all on the show notes.
(51:45):
Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate you Natalia.
That was a great conversation. I had a a great time.
I learned a lot today. I like I I fully I'm, I'm, you
know, amazed with what I keep learning while I'm doing this.
So I appreciate you. I appreciate the work that you
do, you and your team, and it was a great conversation.
Until next time, thank you so much.
Thank you so much, Anthony, and thank you for bringing awareness
(52:08):
about such a sensitive topic. I really, really appreciate what
you're doing. For listening, please help us
grow the channel and like, shareand subscribe for more content.
The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for
informational and motivational purposes only.
This content is not a substitutefor professional medical advice,
addiction treatment, or therapy.If you or someone you know is
(52:30):
struggling with addiction, please consult A licensed
physician, addiction specialist,or mental health professional.
You are no longer alone.
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