Halie Devlin, 2/4 Emotional Manifesting Generator, on Addiction, Sobriety, and Conscious Embodiment

This episode of Rest for the Revolution features Halie Devlin, 2/4 emotional manifesting generator, somatic practitioner, serial entrepreneur, and parent, as she shares her journey from addiction and under-functioning to sobriety, conscious embodiment, and intentional parenting. Halie explores how societal expectations, intergenerational patterns, and personal beliefs shaped her relationship with rest—and how she learned to reclaim it as a radical act of self-care and empowerment.

We dive into nervous system regulation, somatic practices, and the importance of creating space in daily life, even amidst a full schedule and parenting a young child. Halie shares the lessons she models for her daughter, the conscious decisions that guide her work and life, and how embodiment becomes a practice of activism in a world that often encourages disconnection.

If you’re seeking insights on rest, presence, and living in alignment with your values, this conversation offers tangible practices, deep reflections, and an inspiring perspective on turning personal healing into ripple effects for your family, community, and beyond.

 

Connect with Halie Devlin: Instagram: @haliedevlin

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
This is rest for the revolution.
A projector's dilemma.
Hello and welcome to rest for the revolution.
.999I'm so excited to talk to two, four emotional manifesting generator, Haley Devlin, who's also a serial entrepreneur in the space of somatics and recovery and parenting so I'm excited to learn how she got there and how she has stayed rested through it all. 5 00:00:30,509.999 --> 00:00:32,548.999 Thank you for being here, Yeah. 6 00:00:32,548.999 --> 00:00:33,378.999 Thanks for having me. 7 00:00:33,388.999 --> 00:00:34,178.999 Happy to be here. 8 00:00:34,829.999 --> 00:00:35,219.999 Hailey. 9 00:00:35,219.999 --> 00:00:38,9.999 I start every conversation with the same question. 10 00:00:39,289.999 --> 00:00:45,218.999 How has your relationship to rest been over your lifetime? Great question. 11 00:00:45,908.999 --> 00:00:54,168.999 Oof, my relationship to rest has been such a journey as I imagine it is for most people. 12 00:00:54,268.999 --> 00:00:55,548.999 It's yeah.

(00:55):
So when I was young, I was very active.
And then I'm going to make some big leaps here.
So this is like, might be some gaps to fill in, but essentially I spent about 10 years in active addiction.
I was very under functioning during that time.
.999Also not prioritizing rest in any way, shape or form, but very under functioning. 18 00:01:19,88.999 --> 00:01:26,659 And then I got sober about a decade ago and I started to become a lot more.

(01:27):
Of a you know, contributing member of society.
And it kind of was like a pendulum swing where I went from being under functioning, contributing nothing to being over functioning, contributing a lot, but because that was such a contrast from who I had been, I saw that as health.

(01:47):
And for a while, it worked for me actually to be that way.
And then I remember I was in a training in a somatics training and the Facilitator shared this quote, and I forget who it's from.
You may have heard it.
.998Maybe you can fill in the gap, but it was basically something like being well adjusted to a sick society is not a measure of health, and I had this kind of Like, oh, fuck, because that's really what I had done, and been considering that health, even though I was in cycles of burnout, so I remember hearing that quote and then actually just going through a huge wave of grief of like, I don't know if I've ever known what it's like to actually. 25 00:02:34,753.999 --> 00:03:11,853.999 Like truly well that happened, I think, probably in 2022 or maybe 2021 and then over the last few years, learning how to rest has been a Actually, a huge part of my work and certainly a not linear path and many ups and downs but I actually had some health stuff, particularly in the last few years that has happened Forced it essentially but it was so interesting because there would be these subtle little things that would happen. 26 00:03:11,853.999 --> 00:03:21,3.9985 Like, for example, I would, you know, be resisting taking a nap, for example, even though I was exhausted and I could feel that I needed to, but my, you know, habituated So yeah. 27 00:03:21,458.9995 --> 00:03:54,328.9995 Conditioned tendency was to push through and then I would kind of slow down inside enough to be like, okay Just take the fucking nap and then I would go and I would take the nap But then I would hear my partner open the door, you know, and I was like literally jump up and be like fuck Okay, you can't see me nothing like okay as if like that would somehow mean something help me, you know and so it's like that's kind of where I started And so, of course, then that initiated so much personal work of like, why do I feel the need to jump up when my partner walks in the door because I'm resting, because that's certainly not anything he's said. 28 00:03:54,338.9985 --> 00:03:59,818.9995 It's like, that's just all a projection of my own belief systems around what it means to rest. 29 00:03:59,818.9995 --> 00:04:18,838.999 And that's really one of the biggest things that I've come to understand about rest and the willingness to incorporate that as a value in my life is that so much of what gets in the way of my willingness to do that are the beliefs that I hold about that. 30 00:04:18,838.999 --> 00:04:23,928.999 And of course, the beliefs that I hold about that are shaped by our society and the systems that we live in. 31 00:04:23,928.999 --> 00:04:33,438.999 You know, Gabor Mate has this Amazing quote that I love so much where he says, yes, with our minds, we create the world, but first the world creates our mind. 32 00:04:34,398.999 --> 00:04:40,908.998 And of course, living in this capitalist, patriarchal colonized society. 33 00:04:41,348.997 --> 00:04:43,773.997 We, are taught urgency. 34 00:04:43,813.997 --> 00:04:45,83.997 We are taught hustle. 35 00:04:45,83.997 --> 00:04:53,473.997 We are taught that rest is not productive and therefore is secondary, if not highly a tertiary to everything else that we do. 36 00:04:53,493.997 --> 00:05:01,383.998 And so learning how to dismantle those belief systems inside myself has, has, and continues to really be a process. 37 00:05:01,423.997 --> 00:05:10,723.997 And I will say I have much More gentleness and space to incorporate rest into my life day to day. 38 00:05:10,723.997 --> 00:05:12,603.9965 And I certainly don't do that perfectly. 39 00:05:12,603.9965 --> 00:05:13,753.997 I mean, I have a four year old. 40 00:05:13,763.997 --> 00:05:14,543.997 I have a very full life. 41 00:05:15,673.997 --> 00:05:20,183.997 So I'm not just like over here resting as much as I maybe want to all the time. 42 00:05:20,323.996 --> 00:05:27,653.997 And there's a lot of ways that I've learned how to welcome that in, in a way that's actually been really healing and empowering for me. 43 00:05:29,429.997 --> 00:05:46,369.997 Speaking of your four year old, what did you learn at that age or at any age in your childhood made your mind? I love that quotation that you provided us because it's likely started before the underfunctioning and addiction. 44 00:05:46,389.997 --> 00:05:53,209.997 And I'm curious what that looked like, what the role models you had for rest or not resting were. 45 00:05:53,679.997 --> 00:05:54,999.997 Tell me about your childhood. 46 00:05:55,278.997 --> 00:05:56,198.997 Yeah, totally. 47 00:05:57,158.997 --> 00:05:58,268.997 That's such a therapist question. 48 00:05:58,508.997 --> 00:05:59,748.997 Tell me about your childhood. 49 00:06:00,249.997 --> 00:06:01,759.997 I am a therapist. 50 00:06:01,998.997 --> 00:06:05,768.897 I know, I know, that's why it's so hard. 51 00:06:05,768.997 --> 00:06:07,78.997 But yeah, exactly. 52 00:06:08,738.997 --> 00:06:19,703.997 So, phew, yeah, I don't know that I really had Models for rest. 53 00:06:19,713.997 --> 00:06:28,163.997 Although I will say, actually, the very first thing that comes to mind is that my, my grandmother, my mom's mom I would spend sometimes weekends with her. 54 00:06:28,163.997 --> 00:06:33,883.996 I grew up in the Bay area and she lived in San Francisco and we would spend time together. 55 00:06:33,923.996 --> 00:06:40,303.998 And from a really young age, she was always really big on napping and she would call herself the queen of snoozles. 56 00:06:41,200.098 --> 00:06:47,978.998 Oh, that if I went to her house that at some point we were going to take a nap. 57 00:06:47,978.998 --> 00:06:51,758.998 And, you know, I was like, the memories I have of this, I was maybe, you know, five, six. 58 00:06:51,758.998 --> 00:06:54,888.997 And at that point it's like, kids don't really generally nap anymore. 59 00:06:54,888.998 --> 00:07:00,68.998 I kind of stopped napping around three or four typically, but I just kind of knew that that was part of the deal. 60 00:07:00,68.998 --> 00:07:20,853.997 And so sometimes we would, I would often, lay next to her in the bed and a lot of the times I wouldn't fall asleep, but I would just kind of lay there and then sometimes I have actually really fond memories of us kind of like giggling and, and her being like, stop moving around so much, you know, while she was trying to take a nap. 61 00:07:21,203.997 --> 00:07:23,313.997 So that memory comes to mind, which is great. 62 00:07:23,413.997 --> 00:07:24,103.997 Other than that. 63 00:07:24,529.998 --> 00:07:25,249.997 role model. 64 00:07:25,259.998 --> 00:07:26,543.998 Thank you Yeah, totally. 65 00:07:26,813.998 --> 00:07:32,683.998 But other than that, I don't recall really ever us kind of talking about that in our family system. 66 00:07:32,683.998 --> 00:07:37,853.998 I mean, my mom was generally the breadwinner and she worked really hard. 67 00:07:37,963.997 --> 00:07:43,183.997 And then my dad was kind of in and out of work and sometimes would have more kind of stay at home. 68 00:07:43,183.997 --> 00:07:46,173.997 Dad vibes sometimes had jobs here and there. 69 00:07:46,623.997 --> 00:07:50,343.9965 But we didn't really talk about rest as a family. 70 00:07:50,343.9965 --> 00:08:11,516.4765 The think kind of generally Okay. 71 00:08:11,785.5765 --> 00:08:13,695.5765 It was actually a fairly affluent town. 72 00:08:14,925.5765 --> 00:08:27,935.5765 And a lot of parents had really high power jobs and kids had a lot of expectation of, you know, you do this and you do that, and then you go to a good college and then you kind of follow in the footsteps of whoever. 73 00:08:27,985.5765 --> 00:08:41,505.5765 And so I always did a lot of extracurriculars and things like that which I actually have memories of mostly enjoying but it was definitely a collective sense of pressure in the town that I grew up in amongst kids. 74 00:08:41,565.5765 --> 00:08:50,944.5765 Yeah, so the conversation wasn't explicit, but you're still getting messages of equals good? Is that what I'm hearing? For sure. 75 00:08:51,24.5765 --> 00:08:59,164.5745 Yeah, even in my own family system, like there was a lot of like you know, the importance of getting good grades and and things like that. 76 00:08:59,194.5755 --> 00:09:10,154.5755 But I would say kind of broader picture systemically, there was definitely a lot of expectation around what success looked like. 77 00:09:10,164.5755 --> 00:09:13,714.5755 And that certainly didn't include like chillin. 78 00:09:14,169.5755 --> 00:09:28,200.4755 You know, Does rest always look like an absence of to you? Or is, are there different types of rest? Silence. 79 00:09:28,309.5755 --> 00:09:47,419.5745 myself, especially as a mom and especially as yeah, as a serial entrepreneur who likes to do many things, I've had to learn that for me rest, and of course this is a classic somatic practitioner response, but like for me in so many ways, rest. 80 00:09:48,54.5745 --> 00:09:49,924.5745 Is just about the felt sense. 81 00:09:50,4.5745 --> 00:10:00,804.5745 And, I used to have this really limiting idea that if I was going to rest, that meant I needed to reserve an hour for a nap, and as a parent, it's like, sometimes that's just not possible often. 82 00:10:00,824.5745 --> 00:10:01,634.5745 That's not possible. 83 00:10:01,994.5745 --> 00:10:09,324.5735 But what I've learned is that, I can say I have back to back meetings or back to back clients or something like that. 84 00:10:10,354.5735 --> 00:10:16,334.5735 I can take five minutes in between those clients and I can settle into my body. 85 00:10:16,814.5735 --> 00:10:42,299.5745 And I can close my eyes and I can let even my, eyeballs relax back in their sockets and I can slow my breath and I can just focus my attention and that five minutes can be restful,, I can notice when I'm bracing and release that tension and just Stay connected to how I'm feeling in a felt sense of relaxation and that can feel restful. 86 00:10:42,609.5745 --> 00:10:47,179.575 I can have play with my family where we're, hanging out in the living room. 87 00:10:47,189.575 --> 00:10:52,359.575 Maybe we're even like wrestling or something, but there's a restful nature to it because it's nourishing. 88 00:10:52,359.575 --> 00:10:56,879.573 And we're in this really cozy, insulated space and we're enjoying one another's company. 89 00:10:56,889.573 --> 00:10:59,949.573 And so I think that rest can actually take many forms. 90 00:11:00,479.573 --> 00:11:05,799.574 And I think that it can happen Transcribed In way more moments than we are taught to think. 91 00:11:06,359.574 --> 00:11:09,129.574 We're really taught to think that rest has to look a certain way. 92 00:11:09,129.574 --> 00:11:12,549.5745 It's like a nap or it's a bubble bath or it's 10 hours of sleep a night. 93 00:11:12,549.5745 --> 00:11:15,399.5735 Or, and, and I think that it actually is so much. 94 00:11:15,889.5745 --> 00:11:18,239.5745 More expansive than that, which is the good news. 95 00:11:20,750.5745 --> 00:11:33,409.5745 You offered us a quotation that we don't know who said it about basically, do you want to be successful at the thing that everyone wants you to be successful at? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 96 00:11:34,285.5745 --> 00:11:50,329.5755 It sounds like at some point things went off the rails for you, even in pretending to want that led to the under functioning, when did it go off the rails Well, that moment in the training, when I first heard that quote was a really pivotal moment for me. 97 00:11:50,339.5755 --> 00:11:56,369.5755 And then, it was a bit of a slow burn for me where it's like, I kind of, after you were sober though, yes, after I was sober. 98 00:11:56,369.5755 --> 00:11:56,559.575 Yeah. 99 00:11:56,559.575 --> 00:11:56,719.5745 Yeah. 100 00:11:56,720.5755 --> 00:12:03,720.63105556 curious when things went completely off the rails in even you performing for society. 101 00:12:04,59.5755 --> 00:12:07,500.4755 Oh, that's round one of deconditioning. 102 00:12:07,699.5745 --> 00:12:08,139.5745 yes. 103 00:12:08,220.5755 --> 00:12:08,720.5755 When Yeah. 104 00:12:08,720.6755 --> 00:12:10,90.4755 Yeah. 105 00:12:10,821.5755 --> 00:12:12,371.5755 you use the term under functioning. 106 00:12:12,481.5755 --> 00:12:17,681.5755 You opted out in many ways first before you over opted in. 107 00:12:17,711.5755 --> 00:12:19,861.5755 And then we're trying to find the middle ground. 108 00:12:20,530.5755 --> 00:12:25,720.5755 Even in the first years of my addiction, I went to college. 109 00:12:26,425.5755 --> 00:12:32,75.5755 You know, studied abroad, had lots of jobs, often worked mostly full time to put myself through school. 110 00:12:32,75.5755 --> 00:12:40,265.5755 So, it was very common that I would, go to school Monday through Thursday, and then I would work doubles Friday, Saturday at a restaurant and then Sunday morning. 111 00:12:40,265.5755 --> 00:12:45,395.5755 And then I would maybe rest a little bit of Sunday and then I would go back into Monday and do the whole thing over again, you know, and homework and all that. 112 00:12:45,435.5755 --> 00:12:49,300.4755 So I I over functioned and then I under functioned and then I over functioned. 113 00:12:50,60.5755 --> 00:12:52,580.5755 And then now I'm kind of somewhere in the middle. 114 00:12:52,670.5755 --> 00:12:56,110.5755 It sounds like when you were young, there were. 115 00:12:57,75.5765 --> 00:13:21,654.5755 Clear parameters of what success was, and you followed those for the most part in that town community that you were in, what point did the ups and downs start to where it didn't feel like you were matching society or that you wanted to, or that society was matching you, whatever you define that as? I would say that probably wasn't until I got sober. 116 00:13:21,664.5755 --> 00:13:26,184.5755 Like I think I was very bought into what success looked like until I hit. 117 00:13:26,769.5765 --> 00:13:28,299.5765 the bottom of my addiction. 118 00:13:28,649.5765 --> 00:13:35,679.5765 Really trying to yeah, be what I thought other people needed me to be, to be successful, to be worthy. 119 00:13:36,109.5765 --> 00:13:48,849.5755 And then when I got sober, that's such a, So, I mean transformation, but in, you know, transformation, I say, I say this often because I just think it's so true. 120 00:13:48,859.5755 --> 00:14:00,524.5755 It's like transformation gets such a so so the truth is, is that transformation is just inherently destructive. 121 00:14:00,534.5755 --> 00:14:06,424.5755 It's like a transformation is a dismantling of everything that you think that you know, so that something else can emerge. 122 00:14:06,424.5755 --> 00:14:08,274.5755 And it's often deeply uncomfortable. 123 00:14:08,684.5755 --> 00:14:21,860.8275 And so when I hit my bottom in my addiction and I'm had my slate wiped clean in so many ways and destroyed That I had in the wake of, of my of chaos. 124 00:14:21,940.8275 --> 00:14:24,660.8275 That was really the place where I started to question. 125 00:14:24,720.8275 --> 00:14:29,850.828 And the first couple of years of my sobriety, I worked in a restaurant and I really actually just focused on recovery. 126 00:14:30,380.828 --> 00:14:35,190.828 And I remember it during that time, I actually had a lot of grief around the life that I had lost. 127 00:14:35,305.828 --> 00:14:36,805.828 Because that just was all that I knew. 128 00:14:36,805.828 --> 00:14:57,740.8285 And I was like, if I'm not gonna, have a successful corporate career in the art world, what am I even going to do? Like that had been, my plan for, as long as I could to show instead, well, first I was able to see, okay, wow, I did that thing where I climbed that ladder and it wasn't, Making me happy or feeling fulfilled. 129 00:14:58,370.8285 --> 00:15:01,560.8285 And so maybe that's not actually what I want. 130 00:15:01,630.8285 --> 00:15:04,710.8285 Maybe that's just kind of been part of my conditioning. 131 00:15:04,710.8285 --> 00:15:07,190.8285 I there's parts of that, that I think were authentic to me. 132 00:15:07,190.8285 --> 00:15:13,190.7285 I genuinely love art and there's so much about the art world that I think is beautiful and amazing, but the. 133 00:15:13,830.8285 --> 00:15:17,200.8285 The kind of climbing of the corporate ladder, I think was a lot of conditioning. 134 00:15:17,690.8285 --> 00:15:25,190.828 And then I started to wonder, well, if that's not what I want to do, then what do I want to do? And because my slate had been wiped clean, I really had no idea. 135 00:15:25,190.828 --> 00:15:29,510.8285 I had no sense of self when I got sober because my addiction was what I was most devoted to. 136 00:15:29,510.8285 --> 00:15:34,710.8285 So what I really valued or what brought me alive or any passions, I mean, those kind of went out the window. 137 00:15:34,710.8285 --> 00:15:38,820.8285 And so there was a real opportunity to start fresh, which again, is. 138 00:15:38,875.8285 --> 00:15:40,745.8285 Both terrifying and really beautiful. 139 00:15:40,745.8285 --> 00:15:49,625.8285 And so instead what I started doing was just following the quiet And spirit and that started with. 140 00:15:50,295.8285 --> 00:15:59,525.8285 You know, I was so invested at that point in my own healing that I'd started doing yoga and meditation and I I felt like it brought me alive in a cool way. 141 00:15:59,525.8285 --> 00:16:08,940.7295 And so I decided I was going to get my yoga teacher training, and then I just did it that way where instead of, okay, here's where I am, here's where I need to be, and I'm just going to do it. 142 00:16:09,87.48188095 --> 00:16:11,90.8295 it's to get there. 143 00:16:11,90.8295 --> 00:16:13,280.8295 And this very particular idea of what success is. 144 00:16:13,280.8295 --> 00:16:32,915.9295 I just started listening to what was actually bringing me most alive and then moving towards that, which looked way more like To work? What does work even mean? What does success even mean? Was your use of substances attached to quieting anything inside of you or were there other reasons that you used? Oh yeah, for sure. 145 00:16:32,985.9285 --> 00:16:33,305.9285 Yeah. 146 00:16:33,315.9295 --> 00:16:38,415.9295 I think that was probably one of the main reasons that I used substances was to quiet what was happening inside of me. 147 00:16:39,815.9295 --> 00:16:40,165.9295 Yeah. 148 00:16:40,165.9295 --> 00:16:46,45.9295 Number related were my only two Modes that I was willing to operate in. 149 00:16:46,945.9295 --> 00:16:48,365.9295 And most of the time it was numb. 150 00:16:48,975.9295 --> 00:16:57,646.9295 Yeah, a That feels related to me, a lack of rest or being able to be at rest. 151 00:16:57,925.9285 --> 00:16:58,695.9295 hundred percent. 152 00:16:58,795.9295 --> 00:16:59,185.9295 Yeah. 153 00:16:59,565.9295 --> 00:17:03,155.9295 Well, and if you think, I mean, from a somatic perspective on a nervous system level, right. 154 00:17:03,155.9295 --> 00:17:15,495.9295 Even if you just think of addiction as an attempt to regulate and dysregulation as a product of our nervous system, continually overriding our nervous system experience, trauma and stress. 155 00:17:15,535.9295 --> 00:17:21,755.9295 And so using was sort of this sense of auto regulation. 156 00:17:21,755.9295 --> 00:17:36,56.8295 It was this sense of being, it was the only thing Yeah. 157 00:17:36,60.9295 --> 00:17:40,290.9285 know, that sense of, okay, I can, can I can just stay here. 158 00:17:40,370.9285 --> 00:17:43,960.9295 And if I wasn't where you under the influence, then I. 159 00:17:44,50.9295 --> 00:17:45,860.9295 I have, didn't want to a there. 160 00:17:45,860.9295 --> 00:17:47,10.9295 I was constantly running. 161 00:17:47,10.9295 --> 00:17:57,450.9295 And so, yeah, it looks running, a, through, you know, my actions or just that inner, you know, that inner felt experience of avoiding being that is or living life. 162 00:17:57,514.9837169 --> 00:18:01,215.9295 using the web in a is absolutely the antithesis of rest. 163 00:18:01,216.0295 --> 00:18:02,795.8295 Yeah. 164 00:18:03,175.9295 --> 00:18:03,565.9295 Yeah. 165 00:18:03,651.9295 --> 00:18:10,935.9295 you sleep well leading up to the addictive portion of your life? Yeah. 166 00:18:10,985.9295 --> 00:18:16,495.9295 I don't recall actually really having sleep issues as a young person, which I'm glad for. 167 00:18:16,515.9295 --> 00:18:21,315.9285 And as a teenager, I remember that I slept a lot actually. 168 00:18:21,415.9295 --> 00:18:33,240.9305 And yeah, Often preferred that, and I think that was also part of, I mean, back then we didn't really have access to mental health in the way that we do now. 169 00:18:33,240.9305 --> 00:18:44,0.9305 And so I wasn't really called this back then, but I, I trended towards anxiety and depression and, you know, I would, I remember I actually have distinct memories of, being a teenager. 170 00:18:44,0.9305 --> 00:18:47,370.9305 And then I would wake up at like 1 PM and be like, Oh, thank God. 171 00:18:47,370.9305 --> 00:18:48,600.9305 A lot of the day is already gone. 172 00:18:48,620.9305 --> 00:18:52,860.9295 I don't have to like worry about living through it, you know, kind of vibes. 173 00:18:54,286.9305 --> 00:19:00,626.9295 That's so interesting to me because sleep and rest are not necessarily the same thing. 174 00:19:00,630.9305 --> 00:19:00,940.93 Yeah. 175 00:19:00,940.93 --> 00:19:01,300.9295 Yeah. 176 00:19:02,236.9295 --> 00:19:13,300.9305 And so you were really good at sleeping if you were able to sleep until the afternoon, but it was actually a symptom of dysregulation Yeah. 177 00:19:13,301.0305 --> 00:19:14,410.8305 Yeah. 178 00:19:14,656.9305 --> 00:19:17,406.9295 life, a solution to it. 179 00:19:17,570.9305 --> 00:19:18,50.9305 Yeah. 180 00:19:19,340.9305 --> 00:19:26,880.9305 I love that you say that and it makes me wonder and I've never thought about this before, but just as we're having this conversation, I'd be curious your thoughts on it. 181 00:19:26,910.9295 --> 00:19:27,960.9295 Just the way that. 182 00:19:29,70.9305 --> 00:19:32,860.9305 Relational attunement weaves into rest. 183 00:19:34,70.9305 --> 00:19:43,760.9305 Because when I think about dysregulation, so much of my dysregulation was a product of a lack of attunement in primary relationships in my life. 184 00:19:44,580.9305 --> 00:19:52,400.9305 And when I think about, you know, like even that example I gave of my daughter in playing and how that actually can feel quite restful to me. 185 00:19:53,610.9305 --> 00:20:00,290.9305 It's like in attunement when we feel safe and therefore at ease. 186 00:20:01,55.9305 --> 00:20:06,585.9305 That experience of living from that place is restful. 187 00:20:06,586.0305 --> 00:20:07,355.9805 Yeah. 188 00:20:07,355.9805 --> 00:20:08,125.9305 Yeah. 189 00:20:08,125.9305 --> 00:20:08,895.8805 Yeah. 190 00:20:08,895.8805 --> 00:20:09,665.8305 Yeah. 191 00:20:09,731.9305 --> 00:20:17,431.93 heard a lot of people in these conversations talk about a lot of shoulds towards the world. 192 00:20:17,431.93 --> 00:20:18,471.93 Like I should be doing this. 193 00:20:18,471.93 --> 00:20:19,401.9305 I should be doing that. 194 00:20:19,671.9305 --> 00:20:26,261.9305 And that blocking a lot of their attunement and relationships because they never feel like enough. 195 00:20:26,651.9295 --> 00:20:33,441.9305 And some of those people have expressed to me that then they function to try to compensate. 196 00:20:33,796.9305 --> 00:20:48,576.9305 And what I'm hearing in your original solution, teenage Haley's solution was actually a, let's try to avoid it so that I don't have to feel the lack of attunement or that I'm not enough. 197 00:20:50,385.9305 --> 00:20:51,15.9305 Absolutely. 198 00:20:54,56.9295 --> 00:21:01,35.9295 Did you feel disconnected at that point in your life? Yeah. 199 00:21:01,35.9305 --> 00:21:02,385.9305 In, in some ways, yes. 200 00:21:02,385.9305 --> 00:21:03,515.9295 And in some ways, no. 201 00:21:03,515.9305 --> 00:21:14,755.9305 I mean, I was, I was actually really fortunate as a teenager to have a really great group of girlfriends that I felt like understood me in many ways. 202 00:21:14,855.9305 --> 00:21:22,165.9305 And I felt safe with, and for a group of teenage girls, we actually had very little drama, which was really nice. 203 00:21:22,255.9295 --> 00:21:27,780.9295 And so in that sense, I felt connected. 204 00:21:27,880.9295 --> 00:21:31,460.9295 But in a lot of other ways, I felt disconnected. 205 00:21:31,547.0295 --> 00:21:36,827.0305 I think that that was also a feeling in many ways that I had. 206 00:21:37,257.0305 --> 00:21:39,727.0305 In my home life and then in other social settings. 207 00:21:40,197.0305 --> 00:21:45,977.0305 And I felt really insecure and really uncomfortable in my own skin. 208 00:21:47,7.0305 --> 00:22:02,257.0305 And because I was trying so hard to be who I thought other people Wanted me to be, I had no true sense of location of my own authentic self. 209 00:22:03,7.0305 --> 00:22:06,437.0305 And that was something that continued until I really got sober. 210 00:22:06,497.9805 --> 00:22:13,82.9305 Okay. 211 00:22:13,297.0305 --> 00:22:18,767.0305 constantly trying to chameleon myself to fit in. 212 00:22:19,292.0305 --> 00:22:28,62.0305 In any kind of environment was really challenging, although I didn't really recognize it at the time because that was my baseline experience in many ways. 213 00:22:28,542.0295 --> 00:22:34,882.0295 It sounds like at first as a teenager, you were sleeping to regulate and miss as much as you could. 214 00:22:35,236.0285 --> 00:22:39,322.029 yeah, then at some point, it sounds like that didn't work as well. 215 00:22:39,322.029 --> 00:22:43,22.0295 So then you were using external support to either numb or elate. 216 00:22:44,306.0295 --> 00:22:46,676.0295 Yeah, and then I got into stimulants. 217 00:22:48,296.0305 --> 00:22:54,276.0305 And I would just not sleep for days at a time, which, was also really not great. 218 00:22:54,716.0305 --> 00:22:56,302.0315 But, wasn't rest for you. 219 00:22:56,312.0315 --> 00:23:00,462.0315 Sleep was yeah, yeah, yeah, the stimulants were just another vehicle. 220 00:23:00,576.0315 --> 00:23:02,252.0315 exactly, it was restful. 221 00:23:02,426.0315 --> 00:23:12,266.0315 exactly, yeah, yeah, totally, this is actually cool to reflect on my experience through this lens because I never really do, and it's, but it's very enlightening, yeah. 222 00:23:12,741.0315 --> 00:23:12,961.0315 Yeah. 223 00:23:13,82.0315 --> 00:23:14,402.0315 you're jacked up on stimulants. 224 00:23:14,541.1315 --> 00:23:18,60.9315 Yeah. 225 00:23:19,601.0315 --> 00:23:21,201.0315 And then I found opiates. 226 00:23:22,682.1315 --> 00:23:22,696.9315 don't know. 227 00:23:22,937.0315 --> 00:23:23,537.0315 Good for you. 228 00:23:23,901.0315 --> 00:23:24,141.0315 Yeah. 229 00:23:24,141.0315 --> 00:23:28,461.0315 And then I just kept going on that train up and down for many years. 230 00:23:28,707.0315 --> 00:23:36,127.0315 So on some level that was more effective at regulating you for a longer period of time than oversleeping. 231 00:23:36,451.0315 --> 00:23:36,721.031 Yeah. 232 00:23:36,721.032 --> 00:23:37,651.032 I mean, it was really though. 233 00:23:37,671.032 --> 00:23:39,601.03 Yeah, because it allowed me to. 234 00:23:40,836.031 --> 00:23:51,586.031 I actually have this very distinct memory of being, I was a senior in high school and we were going to look at colleges and I really wanted to be on the East Coast, which is to say as far away from my West Coast upbringing as I could be. 235 00:23:52,156.03 --> 00:23:57,666.029 And I Well, here's where my memory gets a little bit fuzzy. 236 00:23:57,706.029 --> 00:23:58,996.029 I could have been on drugs. 237 00:23:59,26.029 --> 00:24:04,186.029 I don't, my memory is that I wasn't actually, but I was sleeping a shit ton. 238 00:24:04,656.029 --> 00:24:06,716.029 And my mom was really concerned. 239 00:24:06,726.029 --> 00:24:17,16.029 She's like, what's going on? Why are you sleeping so much? And I really do think, If my memory is correct, that I would hit the point of overwhelm and then I would literally collapse, and then I just couldn't. 240 00:24:17,16.029 --> 00:24:20,776.029 And so, and so we were trying, you know, had these things scheduled and all I wanted to do was sleep. 241 00:24:20,776.029 --> 00:24:38,306.929 And, Okay. 242 00:24:38,986.029 --> 00:24:50,426.029 all night and then wake up and take some kind of an upper and then be able to show up to my day and then go back to that same cycle, need to take something to knock me out to go to sleep and then just repeat, repeat, repeat for years. 243 00:24:50,476.029 --> 00:24:53,176.028 And that worked for a little while and until it didn't. 244 00:24:53,246.029 --> 00:24:53,516.029 Yeah. 245 00:24:53,516.129 --> 00:24:54,835.0605 Yeah. 246 00:24:54,835.0605 --> 00:24:56,153.992 Yeah. 247 00:24:57,377.029 --> 00:25:11,557.028 trying to opt out, you were trying to opt in to what had prescribed to you, but it was so painful that you were either needed to be asleep or on drugs in order to participate. 248 00:25:11,607.029 --> 00:25:18,962.029 This feels like a different type of conversation about, you Using and oversleeping and all of this. 249 00:25:18,962.029 --> 00:25:25,22.029 And we often you wanted to succeed at the things you were supposed to succeed at. 250 00:25:25,342.028 --> 00:25:26,712.028 It's just that those things. 251 00:25:27,872.029 --> 00:25:34,221.0915 maybe toxic for you and so you needed help or how do you frame that for yourself? Yeah, that's a great question. 252 00:25:35,871.0915 --> 00:25:43,171.0905 I guess I would say, I would say that I, yes, I did want to opt into those things. 253 00:25:43,731.0915 --> 00:25:45,401.0915 Because those things. 254 00:25:46,971.0915 --> 00:25:53,271.0915 At the time were what I thought gave me value as a person. 255 00:25:54,271.0915 --> 00:26:02,681.0915 And I wanted to meet that so that I could feel worthy of loving care. 256 00:26:03,271.0915 --> 00:26:07,81.0905 And and nobody was telling me anything different. 257 00:26:07,141.0915 --> 00:26:10,201.0915 And so that's just really all I knew. 258 00:26:10,941.0915 --> 00:26:29,587.13 And I guess, if I were to consider how I, I mean, I have a lot of compassion for that part of me that did that and as with anything, and as we know, right, it's like Until it kind of reached that tipping point where it was causing me more harm than it was, you Was good. 259 00:26:29,601.3675 --> 00:26:50,957.13 You completely falling apart for me to look at that in a different way and consider that maybe that actually wasn't the quote unquote, you know, right way or the way that was most important. 260 00:26:50,957.23 --> 00:26:50,972.03 Yeah. 261 00:26:51,452.13 --> 00:26:54,752.13 In alignment with who I actually wanted to be in the world. 262 00:26:54,757.13 --> 00:26:55,157.13 Mm-hmm. 263 00:26:56,563.0675 --> 00:27:07,223.0675 Yeah, this might be the therapist in me talking again, but when I hear this, you use the term under functioning part of the narrative of this piece of your story. 264 00:27:07,593.0675 --> 00:27:11,793.0675 But what Mm-hmm to me, like in a huge way is. 265 00:27:12,543.0675 --> 00:27:19,673.0675 How much effort you put in doing what you perceived as what you were supposed to do. 266 00:27:19,683.0675 --> 00:27:32,943.067 So it was oversleeping or using substances, were very committed to making what had been presented to you as life work, Mm-hmm even though it didn't necessarily fit for you. 267 00:27:33,177.1295 --> 00:27:33,467.1295 Yeah. 268 00:27:33,467.1295 --> 00:27:33,667.1295 Yeah. 269 00:27:33,672.1295 --> 00:27:33,972.1295 Yeah. 270 00:27:34,212.1295 --> 00:27:42,972.1295 So then would you say in a way that that was over-functioning? I think it's not even a binary of under functioning and over functioning. 271 00:27:43,152.1295 --> 00:27:51,392.1305 It feels like survival to me from what I'm hearing, someone who what was supposed to be their life. 272 00:27:52,452.1295 --> 00:28:02,592.1295 Didn't necessarily feel good in that being her life and was very motivated not let anyone, including herself down. 273 00:28:03,236.192 --> 00:28:05,531.192 Mm-hmm Mm-hmm Yeah. 274 00:28:05,891.192 --> 00:28:06,401.192 Yeah. 275 00:28:06,491.192 --> 00:28:06,971.192 Totally. 276 00:28:07,31.192 --> 00:28:08,531.192 I appreciate that reflection. 277 00:28:09,271.192 --> 00:28:30,120.255 Do you think it's the isms that you listed at the beginning that had influenced you to feel so dedicated to success in the way that you thought success was defined Yeah. 278 00:28:30,330.255 --> 00:28:31,620.255 I think, I mean, I think so. 279 00:28:31,620.255 --> 00:28:33,195.255 I mean, and then of course. 280 00:28:34,665.255 --> 00:28:49,695.255 Yeah, because from a family systems perspective, it's like those isms have also impacted generations and then that's been passed down and then that's been passed down and people have done the best that they could in the context of that. 281 00:28:49,715.254 --> 00:28:51,855.255 And, and I just think that that's very real. 282 00:28:52,15.254 --> 00:29:05,319.3165 As a mom? Do you think you're the inflection point or your daughter is the inflection point in that story? When you say inflection point, what do you mean by inflection? Like the, the breaking of the pattern. 283 00:29:06,309.3165 --> 00:29:07,539.3165 Or the interruption of the pattern. 284 00:29:08,515.254 --> 00:29:27,805.254 It feels like something in your life is change Yeah, yeah, these things that were passed down intergenerationally are in the process of changing and I wonder if you feel like the inflection or if you feel like you're parenting of your daughter and she will be the inflection point. 285 00:29:28,299.3175 --> 00:29:28,839.3175 yeah. 286 00:29:29,459.3175 --> 00:29:30,589.3175 You know, it's interesting. 287 00:29:30,589.3175 --> 00:29:33,849.3175 I feel like I would have answered this question differently even a year ago. 288 00:29:34,299.3175 --> 00:29:38,399.3165 But something, I'm just continuously humbled by parenthood. 289 00:29:39,499.3175 --> 00:29:55,249.3175 And I think even a year ago, I would have said that I am with the undertone of that being that prior to that, there, there weren't other inflection points. 290 00:29:55,789.3175 --> 00:30:16,79.3175 And I think that's something that I have grown in terms of my own compassion and understanding of generations that have come before me is that I think every person in some way, whether overt or more covert is some level of an inflection point for their lineage. 291 00:30:16,589.3175 --> 00:30:18,549.2175 And certainly I get to do things differently. 292 00:30:18,809.3175 --> 00:30:20,209.3175 Differently than my mom did. 293 00:30:20,379.3175 --> 00:30:24,279.3175 I know she did things differently than her mom did and so on and so on. 294 00:30:24,889.3175 --> 00:30:33,799.3175 And I actually, for the sake of, I think both my own healing and like broader perspective that feels more. 295 00:30:35,984.3175 --> 00:30:37,264.3175 honest and honoring. 296 00:30:37,754.3175 --> 00:30:41,784.3175 I see each person in their lineage being an inflection point in their own way. 297 00:30:41,814.3175 --> 00:31:12,814.3155 And I have no doubt that my daughter will look at me and be like, there's a lot of shit you're doing that I'm not trying to do, you know? And so I feel like I am totally Yeah, although she did say to me it was maybe a year ago and it was one of those moments where I was like, yes Just so proud of myself Because she said something something to me along the lines of mommy's mommy's the one that really likes to be still That's like fuck. 298 00:31:12,984.3165 --> 00:31:15,440.254 Yeah Wow. 299 00:31:15,674.3165 --> 00:31:17,124.3165 I think we've made it mic drop. 300 00:31:17,124.3165 --> 00:31:19,390.254 I can be done parenting now Yeah. 301 00:31:19,390.254 --> 00:31:21,260.254 How old? Contextualize. 302 00:31:21,270.254 --> 00:31:24,324.3165 How old is she? four now, so she's probably about three. 303 00:31:24,364.3165 --> 00:31:28,788.379 Yeah, experience someday when I interview her, Yeah, exactly. 304 00:31:28,904.316 --> 00:31:34,428.379 experience will be that Mommy was modeling something, Mm hmm. 305 00:31:34,438.379 --> 00:31:34,978.379 Mm hmm. 306 00:31:35,239.3165 --> 00:31:38,958.379 interprets from that, whether she was insulting you or complimenting yeah, yeah. 307 00:31:39,99.3165 --> 00:31:42,68.379 sure to be determined, Totally. 308 00:31:42,189.3165 --> 00:31:44,328.379 she's seeing something is Yeah. 309 00:31:44,489.3165 --> 00:31:45,9.3155 for you. 310 00:31:45,358.379 --> 00:31:45,908.379 Mm hmm. 311 00:31:46,18.379 --> 00:31:46,498.379 Mm hmm. 312 00:31:46,668.379 --> 00:31:47,18.379 Yeah. 313 00:31:47,189.3165 --> 00:31:55,399.3165 It's a beautiful and graceful way for you to identify all the people, all the women that came before you as each their own inflection point. 314 00:31:55,399.3165 --> 00:31:57,158.279 I think that's Mm hmm. 315 00:31:57,479.3165 --> 00:31:59,738.379 lens of compassion Mm hmm. 316 00:32:00,29.3165 --> 00:32:01,69.3165 modeling your daughter. 317 00:32:01,328.379 --> 00:32:01,778.379 Mm hmm. 318 00:32:01,788.379 --> 00:32:02,158.379 Yeah. 319 00:32:02,168.378 --> 00:32:02,888.379 Thank you. 320 00:32:02,988.379 --> 00:32:03,678.379 Yeah, it's funny. 321 00:32:03,678.379 --> 00:32:07,908.378 When I got pregnant with Rose, I actually really sensed boy vibes. 322 00:32:08,568.379 --> 00:32:24,708.278 And my mom and I, our relationship has come a very long way, and we've healed a lot, and we've had a challenging, relationship in some ways, historically, and I remember when I told her, I said, I think it's a boy, and she's like, I don't think you're going to get off that easy. 323 00:32:26,129.2155 --> 00:32:38,173.279 Wow, like, what are you talking about? You know, and then sure enough, it was a girl and she was like, I told you, intergenerational healing slash challenging Yeah. 324 00:32:38,173.379 --> 00:32:40,633.279 Yeah. 325 00:32:40,633.279 --> 00:32:43,93.179 Yeah. 326 00:32:43,209.2165 --> 00:32:57,264.2165 about maybe what you were Born to be in her life that impacted all of those feelings that you slept through or use drugs through. 327 00:32:57,854.2165 --> 00:33:04,34.2155 And then maybe the shift is actually in your daughter is to be in your life. 328 00:33:04,154.2165 --> 00:33:09,284.2165 That's not a fully complete hypothesis, but I'm curious what it brings up for you. 329 00:33:09,284.3165 --> 00:33:12,171.6646482 The perspective that everybody I mean, inflection point. 330 00:33:12,171.6646482 --> 00:33:22,693.5016852 Where do and you I guess the first thing I want to preface with this is that I think that this perspective for some people is a very edgy one. 331 00:33:22,703.5016852 --> 00:33:57,803.4006852 And I really like to meet people where they are in their own, journey of generational healing and certainly don't assume that, everyone needs to hold this perspective, but I, sorry, no, the perspective that well, yes, that, but also the perspective that on a soul level, I chose my mother and so whatever, sort of karma we came into this life to work through together is something that I decided before I came here and I, and, you know, rose, you know, to be a mother. 332 00:33:58,313.5006852 --> 00:33:59,343.5006852 The same thing. 333 00:33:59,363.5006852 --> 00:34:08,443.5011852 The first time I remember hearing it very clearly was actually that I was doing step work, you know, 12 step recovery. 334 00:34:08,763.5011852 --> 00:34:15,248.5011852 And we were on, Step four and five, which is inventory where we searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 335 00:34:15,248.5011852 --> 00:34:19,928.5001852 And we, write out our resentments and our fears and all kinds of things. 336 00:34:19,958.5001852 --> 00:34:24,698.5011852 And I had a lot of resentment towards members of my family. 337 00:34:25,448.5001852 --> 00:34:30,48.5001852 And the woman that I was working with at the time said that to me. 338 00:34:30,253.5001852 --> 00:34:35,63.5001852 She listened and she was understanding and related and, and all of those kinds of things. 339 00:34:35,73.5001852 --> 00:34:40,343.5001852 And at the same time she brought forth this concept of like, and you, you chose, you chose this. 340 00:34:40,933.5001852 --> 00:34:50,643.4996852 And I actually remember at the time kind of being like, fuck you, which is also why which is also, yeah, why I like to be mindful of, inviting that in. 341 00:34:50,693.4996852 --> 00:35:55,288.5996852 But the more I sat with it, The more I realized, for me, it actually felt really empowering to hold that perspective, because if I chose this, then there's something in it for me to learn and grow from, versus I think, I had a tendency towards, and certainly I'm, I know can still sometimes as a practice, but towards a victimization, and there's, of course, a difference between being a very real victim to something and then living in a place of victimization, but I trended towards living in a place of victimization and holding that perspective really Helped to turn that around and for me to be like, okay, if I chose this, then what am I here to learn? What did I choose and how can I actually face that and move towards that in a way that's generative so that I I don't have to learn that with the next generation or the next generation How has that sense of agency changed you? Oh man, in so many ways. 342 00:35:55,308.5996852 --> 00:36:08,958.5996852 I would say that victimization was one of my primary, I mean, in 12 steps, they call it character defects, which I don't love actually that language because I prefer to call them adoptive strategies. 343 00:36:09,48.5996852 --> 00:36:09,468.5996852 But. 344 00:36:10,373.5996852 --> 00:36:14,423.5996852 That was one of my top adaptive strategies, was victimization. 345 00:36:15,23.5996852 --> 00:36:17,233.5996852 And again, I have a lot of compassion for that now. 346 00:36:17,303.5986852 --> 00:36:33,612.0371852 And to answer your question, that sense of agency, Okay. 347 00:36:33,693.5996852 --> 00:36:38,373.5996852 myself and actually generally like who I am because I know that I am. 348 00:36:40,738.5996852 --> 00:37:07,319.5043519 Making conscious and empowered choices and facing life and living so much of my self loathing came from knowing Ultimately that I wasn't living in alignment with who I knew myself to truly be or that soul sense like okay that this can't be This isn't the essence of who I truly am, and yet Okay. 349 00:37:07,413.6001852 --> 00:37:25,803.5996852 were causing more harm, and so this sense of agency that I have now not only lets me live a life that I generally feel proud of and be a person that I generally feel proud of But it also lets me make way more courageous choices because I don't feel like life is happening to me anymore. 350 00:37:25,803.5996852 --> 00:37:27,263.5996852 I have more of that sense. 351 00:37:27,293.6006852 --> 00:37:28,733.6006852 I can't remember where this comes from. 352 00:37:28,733.6006852 --> 00:37:33,833.6006852 I know I didn't make it up, but just that sense that rather than life is coming at me, it's coming from me. 353 00:37:34,93.5996852 --> 00:37:44,631.0996852 And I've done things and had experiences and Entered into relationships that are so far beyond my wildest dreams of what I would have thought possible 10 years ago. 354 00:37:45,181.0996852 --> 00:37:59,10.1621852 And so I wouldn't trade that for the world, your ability to be what your daughter observes, which is at rest in your mind and in your body? absolutely. 355 00:37:59,120.1611852 --> 00:38:19,915.1621852 And I think that she's a strong inspiration for that shift in In me as well as just being in the work that I am in as a somatic practitioner I mean, you can only guide people at the mountain that you yourself have climbed and I can't, encourage rest. 356 00:38:19,985.1621852 --> 00:38:22,405.1621852 I can't encourage stillness if I'm not. 357 00:38:22,855.1621852 --> 00:38:26,715.1621852 I mean, that's hypocritical for me to encourage that, but not be practicing that myself. 358 00:38:26,745.1621852 --> 00:38:28,155.1621852 And then same thing for my daughter. 359 00:38:28,205.1621852 --> 00:38:31,5.1621852 You know, she'll grow up in these systems. 360 00:38:31,800.1621852 --> 00:38:38,150.1621852 As well, but I want her to know that there is another way and to model that as much as I can. 361 00:38:38,200.1621852 --> 00:38:50,880.1611852 And and then and model that for the people in my life too, you know, and I think that's actually 1 of the things that I love so much about 12 step is we have this principle where we say, that this is all really about attraction rather than promotion. 362 00:38:50,890.1611852 --> 00:38:55,130.2611852 So I don't need to go out with my, sign and wave, rest, rest, rest. 363 00:38:55,130.2611852 --> 00:38:58,780.2611852 But if I'm modeling that, then that plants the seed for other people. 364 00:38:58,780.2611852 --> 00:39:01,970.2611852 And that's more of a, an attraction thing versus a promotion thing. 365 00:39:03,791.1976852 --> 00:39:19,11.1966852 How do you balance that? This work is now your life, your business, your source of money, your framework for parenting, and the system that you now work within. 366 00:39:19,21.1966852 --> 00:39:24,141.1976852 You make money within this is the system that hurt you enough to need this. 367 00:39:24,871.1976852 --> 00:39:31,430.2601852 How do you balance all of that in your body? Yeah, that's a great question. 368 00:39:42,520.2601852 --> 00:40:15,45.2601852 I guess I would say that it's a dance that I do very imperfectly and I tried to notice it's a commitment and a devotion to continued self reflection from moment to moment, because even being in a practice of rest, it's like That can tip the skills into inertia or not showing up for my community or right. 369 00:40:15,325.2601852 --> 00:40:23,235.2601852 And then that can come, you know, tip to the other side, which is this over functioning operating in cycles of burnout, doing too much sort of thing. 370 00:40:23,245.2601852 --> 00:40:26,35.2601852 And then there's everything in between for me, at least. 371 00:40:26,795.2601852 --> 00:40:27,445.2601852 And. 372 00:40:28,410.2601852 --> 00:40:37,290.2601852 So finding balance within that, I don't even love the term balance because I think in some ways It's kind of like a little bit of a fallacy. 373 00:40:37,290.2601852 --> 00:41:10,135.2601852 It's like very rarely are the scales exactly evenly held You know in that place of balance It's like we're kind of always adding something in or taking something away And so the way that I tend to hold it within myself is that it's less about balance and more about space It's like, where, where do I need to create more space? And sometimes that in that space, it's like, again, if you're, I'm tipping more to the side of inertia, it's like, maybe that space means I actually need to activate a little bit more. 374 00:41:10,515.2601852 --> 00:41:10,925.2601852 And. 375 00:41:11,185.2601852 --> 00:41:17,265.2601852 Be participating in community efforts a little bit more or reaching out to people a little bit more. 376 00:41:17,455.2601852 --> 00:41:22,55.2601852 Sometimes that space is like, oh, I actually have been saying yes to things when I don't have capacity. 377 00:41:22,55.2601852 --> 00:41:25,195.2601852 And so I actually need to dial it back and say, no, a little bit more. 378 00:41:25,605.2601852 --> 00:41:38,75.2611852 And so being in inquiry around how I'm showing up in the context of it, and where I might need to be creating more space and what that space looks like. 379 00:41:38,735.2611852 --> 00:41:40,305.2611852 Is the thing that comes to mind for me. 380 00:41:41,126.1986852 --> 00:41:49,116.1986852 Yeah, you're talking about decisions and it makes me think of your in human design, since you're an emotional authority. 381 00:41:49,816.1986852 --> 00:42:35,605.1611852 How has that understanding and exploration played into how you make decisions about what to say yes or no to? Well, something that I learned from you, that I think plays into it, when we did our amazing manifest session, shout out to the manifest sessions is that being part of my emotional authority is That my, my work or my invitation is to ride the wave, right? Because I often in this, I think was the missing link for me for a long time, because I often, when something is presented to me to participate in, because I get excited about so many things, my initial impulse will be like, yeah, you know, I'm like, oh, and then. 382 00:42:35,765.2611852 --> 00:42:50,395.2601852 If I make a decision from that place, sometimes that's great, and then sometimes that really bites me in the ass, because then the wave settles, and I'm like, wait, fuck, I don't have capacity for that, you know? I also love knowing that I can swear on here, so I don't have to worry about, yeah, so. 383 00:42:51,595.2611852 --> 00:42:55,625.2611852 And so part of my invitation is actually riding the full wave of that. 384 00:42:55,915.2611852 --> 00:43:09,785.2611852 So one of the practices that I've implemented, whether it's an internal pause or a pause as I'm having the conversation with the person, but it might look like me saying You know what? I actually need to think about that and I'll get back to you. 385 00:43:10,355.2611852 --> 00:43:13,325.2611852 Or, you know, I get whatever, a message from somebody. 386 00:43:13,325.2611852 --> 00:43:23,805.2611852 And rather than responding right away, I set my phone back down and I, and I give myself a little time to actually feel into that opportunity. 387 00:43:23,845.2611852 --> 00:43:26,725.2601852 And sometimes that pause looks like an hour. 388 00:43:26,735.2611852 --> 00:43:27,975.2611852 Sometimes that pause looks like. 389 00:43:28,445.2611852 --> 00:43:37,155.2601852 A couple of days and I was like a couple of weeks but learning how to fully ride that wave until I land in a place that is a very clear. 390 00:43:37,155.2611852 --> 00:43:41,525.2611852 Yes, is part of is part of that practice for me as well. 391 00:43:41,625.2611852 --> 00:43:53,485.2611852 I love how you describe the experience of being a having a sacral response, because you do have a beautiful response and a defined sacral center. 392 00:43:53,885.2621852 --> 00:43:57,405.2621852 And then That's not what makes decisions for you. 393 00:43:57,405.2621852 --> 00:44:04,245.2621852 So how those two things can be at odds and the power of pressing pause for you. 394 00:44:04,505.2621852 --> 00:44:22,45.2621852 I think there's so many people with emotional authorities that will value that permission that you just described so deeply because we are in such a culture of immediacy and for some people that's really toxic. 395 00:44:22,105.3621852 --> 00:44:23,833.3421852 Yeah. 396 00:44:24,424.3246852 --> 00:44:24,764.3246852 Yeah. 397 00:44:25,344.3246852 --> 00:44:30,574.3246852 And also to part of that, you know, coming back to this idea of saying yes or saying no. 398 00:44:30,574.3246852 --> 00:44:37,194.3246852 And this is a bit of a deviation from the wave part, but related. 399 00:44:37,657.1821852 --> 00:44:39,385.1621852 much. 400 00:44:39,839.3246852 --> 00:44:42,729.3246852 those moments when my impulse is to say yes. 401 00:44:43,344.3246852 --> 00:44:52,654.3246852 Of course, sometimes that's just coming from my authentic excitement, but sometimes the shadow side of that is coming from if I don't say yes, then I'll be rejected. 402 00:44:52,924.3246852 --> 00:44:56,224.3246852 Someone will be upset with me, you know? You know, whatever the story is. 403 00:44:56,224.3246852 --> 00:45:11,394.3246852 And so that's also so much where my own somatic practice comes in, because I have to be able to be slow enough inside myself to notice when that story or that narrative is starting to mount and run and want and wanting to run the show. 404 00:45:11,884.3246852 --> 00:45:16,574.3246852 And then being able to kind of check in, lovingly check in with her and be like, Oh, yeah, of course. 405 00:45:16,574.3246852 --> 00:45:17,804.3246852 Yeah, you're, you're afraid. 406 00:45:17,804.3246852 --> 00:45:20,674.3236852 You're afraid of what's going to happen if you, if you don't say yes. 407 00:45:20,694.3236852 --> 00:45:23,124.3246852 And also like, I've got you. 408 00:45:23,274.3236852 --> 00:45:25,294.3246852 And it's okay to take that pause. 409 00:45:25,314.3246852 --> 00:45:28,174.3246852 It's okay to say, Hey, you know what? I actually need to get back to you. 410 00:45:28,174.3246852 --> 00:45:29,714.3236852 Or it's okay to say no. 411 00:45:30,624.3246852 --> 00:45:32,724.3256852 And of course there's, you know, sometimes. 412 00:45:33,79.3256852 --> 00:45:37,419.3256852 She doesn't feel that way, but I just keep holding her in that process and being like, yeah, I hear you. 413 00:45:37,429.3256852 --> 00:45:38,579.3256852 And I also do that imperfectly. 414 00:45:38,579.3256852 --> 00:45:47,449.3256852 But but that's part of it as well is catching those, you know, when certain parts of me start to get activated and want to take over. 415 00:45:47,774.3256852 --> 00:45:48,824.3256852 The choice making. 416 00:45:50,735.2631852 --> 00:45:51,615.2631852 That's so beautiful. 417 00:45:51,615.2631852 --> 00:45:57,784.3256852 And it feels like it wraps us back around to desire for connection and attunement that Yeah. 418 00:45:57,925.2631852 --> 00:46:03,395.2621852 so challenging that you were either sleeping or using substances to quell the need for. 419 00:46:03,625.2631852 --> 00:46:12,915.2631852 And now in this period of your life where sobriety isn't even the center, it doesn't sound like because you have so many years and so much wisdom. 420 00:46:13,535.2631852 --> 00:46:34,285.2631852 This is attending to a root cause of disconnection and feeling like, Oh, the only way I will get that connection is by the over functioning or the saying, yes, when you're not sure yet, or that need for slowness to come into your life for decision making and all of that contributes to. 421 00:46:34,990.2631852 --> 00:46:37,250.2631852 Rest in a way that is not at all sleep. 422 00:46:37,904.3256852 --> 00:46:38,344.3256852 Yeah. 423 00:46:38,400.2631852 --> 00:46:39,290.2631852 of the system. 424 00:46:39,664.3256852 --> 00:46:40,114.3256852 Yeah. 425 00:46:40,174.3256852 --> 00:46:40,554.3256852 Yeah. 426 00:46:40,904.3256852 --> 00:46:41,984.3256852 Yeah, absolutely. 427 00:46:41,984.4256852 --> 00:46:45,554.3256852 And thank you. 428 00:46:45,554.4256852 --> 00:46:47,324.3256852 Yeah. 429 00:46:47,324.3256852 --> 00:46:49,94.2256852 Yeah. 430 00:46:49,130.2631852 --> 00:46:53,440.2631852 parent? Because I know a big part of your work is supporting parents and being a parent. 431 00:46:53,690.2621852 --> 00:46:59,330.2631852 How are you teaching all of this proactively through your somatic lens? Likely. 432 00:47:01,964.3256852 --> 00:47:13,604.3256852 I would say where I practice this the most and kind of how I teach the most or create space the most around this is just in my own life with my own daughter. 433 00:47:13,614.3246852 --> 00:47:36,424.3256852 And I think that that looks many ways, but one of them that immediately comes to mind is something I actually learned from One of my main teachers, somatic teachers she had a history as a Waldorf teacher, but she would talk about how every person and especially every child needs inhales and exhales throughout their day. 434 00:47:36,474.3256852 --> 00:47:47,834.3266852 So they need inhales, which are times when, maybe they're really active and they're mobilized and they're playing and they're doing and they're focused and they're learning and they're this and that they're socializing all these kinds of things, and then they need. 435 00:47:48,224.3266852 --> 00:48:00,64.3266852 exhales where things are quiet and things are slow and there's not a lot of noise and they can be in that exhaled restful place. 436 00:48:00,74.3266852 --> 00:48:02,334.3266852 And again, it's like, that doesn't have to mean that they're sleeping. 437 00:48:02,334.3266852 --> 00:48:05,624.3256852 But for example, with my daughter, like last night is a great example. 438 00:48:06,544.3256852 --> 00:48:11,689.3266852 It's like rather than having TV on or something, which I'm, I'm not knocking TV as a parent. 439 00:48:11,689.3266852 --> 00:48:15,159.3266852 I feel like there's so much shame in parenting around the TV thing. 440 00:48:15,159.3266852 --> 00:48:16,409.3266852 And like, we definitely use TV. 441 00:48:16,409.3266852 --> 00:48:17,919.3266852 So let me just say that out the gate. 442 00:48:19,29.3266852 --> 00:48:26,439.3266852 But rather than us watching TV, which is more of a kind of auto regulation thing versus like a true kind of exhale, right. 443 00:48:26,539.3266852 --> 00:48:32,949.3266852 We sat quietly at the table and it wasn't like, I didn't even say like, Oh, we need to be quiet now. 444 00:48:32,959.3266852 --> 00:48:33,809.3266852 It's just kind of like, I. 445 00:48:34,189.3266852 --> 00:48:43,439.3266852 Tried to hold that space of co regulation and we sat quietly and we colored and we did some cards for, gifts that we're going to give for Christmas and these little sticker things. 446 00:48:43,439.3266852 --> 00:48:53,189.3251852 And the energy in our house was just slow and and spacious and we talked when, when needed, but it wasn't just like we were continuously talking just to fill the space. 447 00:48:53,189.3251852 --> 00:48:53,329.3251852 Right. 448 00:48:53,329.3251852 --> 00:49:00,909.3251852 So it's just so much of it is an energy that we're holding moment to moment and then the ripple effect of that in our relationships. 449 00:49:00,909.3251852 --> 00:49:18,309.3251852 And so, especially as a parent with her, that's something that I try to incorporate throughout the day is like, okay, what do our moments of exhale look like? And are we incorporating those? Does that co regulation come with your partner as well? Yeah, totally. 450 00:49:18,339.3251852 --> 00:49:18,559.3251852 Yeah. 451 00:49:18,689.3251852 --> 00:49:23,129.3251852 I mean, he's just like the most regular person that I know. 452 00:49:23,129.3251852 --> 00:49:24,649.3251852 I mean, it's just shocking. 453 00:49:24,649.3251852 --> 00:49:36,489.3241852 I mean, he has his moments, of course, as a human, but for the most part, he's just generally, yeah, this is like, he's, he's like my, my primary and best co regulator. 454 00:49:36,589.3251852 --> 00:49:38,419.3251852 So super grateful for him for that. 455 00:49:38,765.2626852 --> 00:49:39,495.2626852 beautiful. 456 00:49:39,664.3251852 --> 00:49:40,644.3251852 Yeah, totally. 457 00:49:41,64.3251852 --> 00:49:41,324.3251852 Yeah. 458 00:49:41,454.3251852 --> 00:49:47,124.3251852 He's also like a busy, you know, he's also like a very busy person and has a lot of energy and like, likes to do a lot of things. 459 00:49:47,124.3251852 --> 00:49:57,779.3271852 And so I wouldn't describe him as being this like parasympathetically dominant person, but he generally is, you know, feels like a very safe and easeful person to be around. 460 00:49:57,779.3271852 --> 00:50:04,729.3271852 And he has a really high capacity for attunement and emotional presence and just is all around so amazing. 461 00:50:04,729.3271852 --> 00:50:07,659.3271852 So he, he contributes to that space in our home. 462 00:50:07,669.3271852 --> 00:50:08,189.3271852 Absolutely. 463 00:50:08,289.3271852 --> 00:50:08,639.3271852 Yeah. 464 00:50:09,405.2636852 --> 00:50:18,295.2646852 You have certainly filled your life with the opposite of that feeling that seems like it drove your substance use and your oversleeping and all of that. 465 00:50:18,759.3261852 --> 00:50:19,709.3261852 Totally. 466 00:50:19,909.3271852 --> 00:50:20,469.3271852 Totally. 467 00:50:20,489.3271852 --> 00:50:20,989.3271852 Yeah. 468 00:50:21,359.3261852 --> 00:50:24,129.3271852 Which I feel really grateful for and fortunate. 469 00:50:24,649.4271852 --> 00:50:25,449.3605186 Yeah. 470 00:50:25,449.3605186 --> 00:50:26,249.2938519 Yeah. 471 00:50:26,249.2938519 --> 00:50:36,64.3271852 Mm also intentional and thoughtful and really A way that you're keeping yourself safe hmm. 472 00:50:36,64.4271852 --> 00:50:38,154.2271852 Yeah. 473 00:50:38,955.2646852 --> 00:50:48,225.2646852 is pretty impressive, given how you rode the wave in a lot of different directions first and then have built safety for your system and yourself. 474 00:50:48,235.2636852 --> 00:50:50,896.2886852 That's quite lovely to bear witness to. 475 00:50:51,174.3261852 --> 00:50:52,234.3261852 Oh, thank you. 476 00:50:52,254.3261852 --> 00:50:52,734.3261852 Yeah. 477 00:50:52,774.3261852 --> 00:50:53,234.3261852 Yeah. 478 00:50:53,594.3261852 --> 00:50:54,644.3261852 Yeah, absolutely. 479 00:50:54,994.3261852 --> 00:51:13,784.4256852 Yeah, and even, it's interesting, and this is maybe Well, this feels relevant, but what's interesting is that when Patrick and I first started dating actually made me deeply uncomfortable because I was so accustomed to relationships, especially with men, where they we're generally pretty absent and or dysfunctional. 480 00:51:13,784.5256852 --> 00:51:15,729.3256852 And. 481 00:51:16,79.4256852 --> 00:51:23,29.4256852 So his being a healthy person was actually really activating for me. 482 00:51:23,449.4256852 --> 00:51:27,499.4251852 And I had moments in the beginning of our relationship with being like, I don't know if I can do this. 483 00:51:27,499.4251852 --> 00:51:33,279.4256852 Or like, why the fuck, why? Like, why do you want to know what I was doing earlier today? Like what, you know, just this really. 484 00:51:35,849.4256852 --> 00:51:43,639.4256852 This reaction to, to, to safety because having that in relationship was unfamiliar to me to the degree that he was offering it. 485 00:51:44,49.4256852 --> 00:51:56,759.4256852 And so that was actually so interesting because I had to really dig deep into my own personal work to be able to create the capacity to stay with that and not run from it. 486 00:51:57,319.4256852 --> 00:52:01,189.4256852 And, and now of course I can't imagine it any other way, but I just. 487 00:52:01,819.4256852 --> 00:52:11,419.4256852 I also share that because I think there's so much messaging out there these days around like nervous system and like your nervous system will feel safe around the right people and like, and yeah, sometimes that's true. 488 00:52:11,419.4256852 --> 00:52:14,169.4256852 And also sometimes that's actually, it's not true. 489 00:52:14,629.4256852 --> 00:52:19,749.4256852 And so being able to discern what's actually true safety is and isn't is, is a skill. 490 00:52:19,749.4256852 --> 00:52:20,839.4256852 It's a somatic skill. 491 00:52:20,949.4256852 --> 00:52:24,649.4256852 And I think that there can be a little bit of misinformation that gets spread around that. 492 00:52:24,669.4256852 --> 00:52:41,650.2996852 So, Thank you so much for offering that whole perspective, along with really tangible examples of how to work with it that resonates for me and I think will resonate for so many people, in particular, people who identify as women in this world. 493 00:52:42,260.3006852 --> 00:52:49,200.3006852 And I heard so many themes of hyper independence and over functioning and boy, don't ask me where I've been. 494 00:52:50,230.3006852 --> 00:52:55,239.4256852 And I think there's so much softening that can be found in strength yeah. 495 00:52:55,810.3006852 --> 00:53:02,70.3006852 we are redefining what partnership and what independence and what strength looks like all at once. 496 00:53:02,70.3006852 --> 00:53:06,900.3006852 So I just think that's such a beautiful encapsulation of all of those things. 497 00:53:06,900.3006852 --> 00:53:07,410.2996852 Thank you. 498 00:53:07,799.4256852 --> 00:53:08,169.4256852 Yeah. 499 00:53:09,219.4256852 --> 00:53:09,709.4256852 Absolutely. 500 00:53:09,880.3006852 --> 00:53:10,240.3006852 note. 501 00:53:10,710.3006852 --> 00:53:20,259.4256852 I have a list of ways that you are changing the world, but I'm curious what you will say to my last question about how are you changing the world right now? Yeah. 502 00:53:26,539.4256852 --> 00:53:30,9.4256852 Lately, Adrienne Marie Brown's Emergent Strategy. 503 00:53:30,9.4256852 --> 00:53:35,209.4256852 Do you know much about Emergent Strategy? Have you read Emergent Strategy? Oh my god, you would love Emergent Strategy. 504 00:53:35,609.4256852 --> 00:53:37,209.4256852 I'm gonna give you the info. 505 00:53:37,229.4246852 --> 00:53:37,889.4256852 Yeah, yeah. 506 00:53:38,599.4246852 --> 00:53:39,419.4256852 You would love it. 507 00:53:39,519.4256852 --> 00:53:41,680.3006852 Do you know Adrienne Marie Brown? No. 508 00:53:41,860.3006852 --> 00:53:42,579.4256852 Introduce god. 509 00:53:42,869.4256852 --> 00:53:43,189.4256852 Okay. 510 00:53:43,189.4256852 --> 00:53:43,789.4256852 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 511 00:53:44,139.4256852 --> 00:53:57,594.4266852 She is I mean, a prolific writer, but she's an activist and she also is somatically oriented and she's trained in lineage of semantics called generative semantics, which brings semantics into politicized spaces. 512 00:53:57,594.4266852 --> 00:54:02,754.4266852 And so that's how initially how I found her, but she's written several books and one of them is called emergent strategy. 513 00:54:03,424.4266852 --> 00:54:06,74.4266852 And what I love about emergent strategy is that. 514 00:54:06,424.4266852 --> 00:54:38,34.4256852 It talks about, So change really being fractal and the idea that even you and me sitting here having this conversation and then the ripple effect of that through our other relationships, through our communities is a way of holding change that is sustainable, you know, and I think sometimes when people hear this idea, Even this question of like, how are we, how are we changing the world? It's like, that can feel overwhelming for a system and feel like a lot of pressure. 515 00:54:38,34.4256852 --> 00:54:49,154.4251852 And then also because of so much of what's happening in our world, I know so many people who just feel hopeless or feel like there's nothing that I can do, or feel like I don't even, you know, I don't even know what I can do. 516 00:54:49,154.4251852 --> 00:54:55,284.4256852 So I'm going to, and then are operating from a place of, any number of, you know, any of our nervous system states really, but. 517 00:54:55,529.4256852 --> 00:55:20,109.4256852 All to say that what I love about emergent strategy is that it's such an empowering reminder that change is facilitated moment to moment relationship to relationship, and that's something that I can hold consistently in my own system with momentum versus like, Oh, changing the world and then immediately having this like, Oh, fuck, and then kind of collapsing in the face of it. 518 00:55:20,889.4256852 --> 00:55:21,529.4256852 And so, cool. 519 00:55:22,94.4256852 --> 00:55:32,544.4256852 All of that to say I think the change for me happens, I mean, first and foremost in my own devotion and commitment to my own conscious embodiment. 520 00:55:32,564.4256852 --> 00:55:38,654.4266852 And what is it that I'm embodying and is what I'm embodying in alignment with what I value. 521 00:55:39,354.4266852 --> 00:55:44,894.4266852 In semantics, we talk about how we are, what we practice, and we are what we practice day to day. 522 00:55:45,639.4266852 --> 00:55:47,429.4266852 Everything we're doing is a practice. 523 00:55:47,459.4266852 --> 00:56:06,249.3271852 I can be practicing my anxiety or I can be practicing safety and trust, I can be practicing, my victimization or I can be practicing my agency, and so everything is a practice and so is when I'm practicing what I ultimately want. 524 00:56:07,289.3271852 --> 00:56:08,719.3271852 To be rippling out into the world. 525 00:56:08,999.3271852 --> 00:56:14,479.3271852 And so it starts, at least for me with myself and then how I'm showing up in relationship. 526 00:56:14,479.3271852 --> 00:56:19,749.3271852 And that's every relationship from my family life to my community, to the people that I work with. 527 00:56:20,69.3271852 --> 00:56:20,669.3271852 And. 528 00:56:21,694.3271852 --> 00:56:35,254.3266852 Right now, of course, my focus and my passion, and I'm pretty sure the hill that I'll die on is, is semantics, I think semantics which for people who may not know what semantics is, I mean, it's so many things. 529 00:56:35,599.3266852 --> 00:56:36,579.3266852 It's a process. 530 00:56:36,579.3266852 --> 00:56:40,259.3266852 It's a process of change and of nervous system healing. 531 00:56:40,269.3266852 --> 00:56:46,599.3266852 It's a paradigm of living, right? So it's like, what am I consciously embodying day to day? Just kind of what I was just expressing. 532 00:56:46,599.4266852 --> 00:56:51,829.3256852 And then it's also a practice and that practice can look many ways. 533 00:56:51,839.3266852 --> 00:57:02,340.2016852 It can look formal, me cultivating a sense of somatic awareness and Yeah. 534 00:57:02,344.3266852 --> 00:57:14,394.3266852 If I'm having a moment of shame in a conflict, rather than looking away at the ground, I'm practicing facing towards the person and continuing to stay connected and make eye contact, even though it's uncomfortable. 535 00:57:14,474.3266852 --> 00:57:16,24.3271852 That's a somatic practice as well. 536 00:57:16,24.3271852 --> 00:57:16,214.3266852 Right. 537 00:57:16,214.3276852 --> 00:57:42,764.3276852 And so and so all to say bringing somatics, which is conscious embodiment into as many spaces as I possibly can actually feels like activism to me because if we look at the way the world is right now, the pain that's perpetuated, the systems of oppression that are perpetuated, they are a product of disembodiment and those systems thrive on our disembodiment. 538 00:57:42,774.3276852 --> 00:57:50,304.3276852 They thrive on us being disconnected from ourselves, from each other, from the way that we're impacting this planet. 539 00:57:50,964.3276852 --> 00:58:02,409.3276852 And so bringing conscious embodiment and helping people return to that sense of connection to themselves and their somas Hello, is vital work in the world. 540 00:58:02,479.3276852 --> 00:58:13,829.3276852 And I love doing it and nerd out so hard about it all the time and bring it into as many spaces and through as many lenses and intersections and contexts as I possibly can. 541 00:58:14,589.3276852 --> 00:58:20,429.3276852 And so I would say that's the main, my main focus of how I'm holding space for change these days. 542 00:58:20,950.2026852 --> 00:58:40,900.2026852 I could listen to you talk about it all day because it's both inspiring and inspired because I can hear the depth of meaning it has for you and listening to you share your story about your nervous system and rest makes it so much more powerful. 543 00:58:41,280.2026852 --> 00:58:45,140.2026852 This mission that you have chosen and cultivated because. 544 00:58:45,620.2026852 --> 00:58:50,519.3276852 In many ways you were victim to the opposite Mm hmm. 545 00:58:50,750.2026852 --> 00:58:56,510.2026852 you tried to fit your system into something that was sick for your system. 546 00:58:56,890.2026852 --> 00:59:01,870.2016852 And so it's just so beautiful and inspiring to hear your story and your mission. 547 00:59:02,50.2026852 --> 00:59:04,160.2026852 Thank you for talking with me today. 548 00:59:04,420.2026852 --> 00:59:08,560.2026852 I know so many people are going to listen to this and be like, I need to talk to her. 549 00:59:09,430.2026852 --> 00:59:15,119.3276852 where can they find you? Yeah, the best place to find me right now is definitely Instagram. 550 00:59:15,119.3276852 --> 00:59:17,479.3276852 My Instagram's at Haley Devlin. 551 00:59:17,519.3276852 --> 00:59:20,529.3266852 H A L I E D E V L I N. 552 00:59:20,700.2026852 --> 00:59:24,340.2026852 throw it in the show notes because Haley always has a new project. 553 00:59:24,340.2026852 --> 00:59:30,20.2021852 So your best bet is following her and then you get to see all the sparks in all the directions. 554 00:59:30,20.2021852 --> 00:59:31,280.2026852 So thank you so much. 555 00:59:31,579.3276852 --> 00:59:32,879.3266852 Yeah, thank you so much, Alex. 556 00:59:45,935.2016852 --> 00:59:46,745.2016852 Thanks for listening. 557 00:59:46,925.2016852 --> 00:59:53,315.2016852 If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to like and subscribe, and if you know someone who might find value in what you've heard, please share.