Rest, Recovery, and Radical Presence with the Magical 2/4 Emotional Projector, Matt Nannis

In this episode of Rest for the Revolution, Alex sits down with the magical 2/4 Emotional Projector, Matt Nannis, founder of Pivot Point WNC, a transformative nonprofit in Asheville, North Carolina. Though Matt isn’t formally into Human Design, his experiences as a splenic Projector illuminate profound lessons about rest, self-awareness, and navigating life’s pressures.

Matt shares his journey from restless, anxiety-filled childhoods and decades of coping through substances, distraction, and over-functioning, to discovering restoration, presence, and self-trust. Along the way, he reveals how he learned to embrace his internal monologue, break cycles of shame and overperformance, and model healthy rest for himself and the adolescents he supports.

Topics discussed include:

• The evolution of Matt’s relationship with rest—from elusiveness to restorative practices.

• Masking struggle and anxiety in a high-pressure environment, and finding freedom through sobriety.

• How mentorship, self-reflection, and radical acceptance can transform racing thoughts into restorative practices.

• Building and leading a nonprofit with care and energy, while maintaining personal rest and boundaries.

• The ripple effect of modeling presence, accountability, and self-care within community mental health.

Matt’s story is a powerful reminder that rest isn’t indulgence—it’s revolutionary, and it’s central to showing up fully in life, even amidst chaos and pressure.

Connect with Matt Nanus / Pivot Point WNC:

• Instagram: @pivotpointwnc

• Donate/Support: Pivot Point WNC is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit https://pivotpointwnc.org/

Support the Podcast: Like, subscribe, and share if this episode inspired you to rethink rest and presence in your own life.

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
This is rest for the revolution.
A projector's dilemma.
Hello and welcome to rest for the revolution today.
I am very excited to sit with Matt Nanus, of pivot point WNC, which is an incredible nonprofit based in Asheville, North Carolina.

(00:24):
.001And he's also a splenic projector, though, not at all into human design, I'm just, I'm just ignorant to it. 6 00:00:30,540.001 --> 00:00:32,190.001 I'm not anti, I'm just ignorant to it. 7 00:00:33,566.001 --> 00:00:36,196.001 Well, we're excited to get into everything.
.001I always start the podcast with the same question, which is over your lifetime, what has your relationship to rest been like, How many people say complicated? Oh, so far? Well, some people say more swear words. 9 00:00:54,465.001 --> 00:00:55,35.001 interesting. 10 00:00:55,515.001 --> 00:00:56,75.001 We'll get there. 11 00:00:56,495.001 --> 00:01:02,295.001 So, it's been, my relationship to rest has been cathartic. 12 00:01:02,295.001 --> 00:01:04,195 It's been distracting. 13 00:01:04,294.999 --> 00:01:06,915 It's been sustainable.

(01:06):
.001It's been non existent.
It's been, I guess, throughout my life, because that was the actual question.
It's been a phenomenal, though often neglected litmus test for how I'm, how I am in, in the world.
.999Can you go back in your life and tell us if there's been an evolution or where the major challenges have been R.

(01:34):
E.
S.
T.?
.999Sure, I think I'll just start at the beginning. 22 00:01:40,415.999 --> 00:01:41,365.999 Start at the beginning. 23 00:01:42,609.999 --> 00:01:52,659.998 I think sleep was this odd incubator of, of FOMO for me at, at some young age. 24 00:01:52,659.998 --> 00:01:56,749.998 Like, I was gonna miss out on something, even if the whole house growing up was going to bed. 25 00:01:57,869.998 --> 00:02:00,109.998 I was going to miss stuff because my brain would be shut off. 26 00:02:00,189.998 --> 00:02:19,749.998 And then when I came to, like, something would have happened and I would have been not in the know, which is really just representative of a general anxiety probably undiagnosed anxiety disorder that that I was not connected or a part of, or, or, or, well, those two work. 27 00:02:19,799.998 --> 00:02:21,259.998 I was not connected or a part of. 28 00:02:22,69.998 --> 00:02:25,349.998 And so there was a desire to stay up late and it. 29 00:02:27,194.998 --> 00:02:39,264.998 Perhaps, I mean, it's in reflection, right? So maybe it was in alignment with any pre pubescent and then adolescent child who was told to go to bed at this time and therefore wanted to go to bed two hours after that time. 30 00:02:39,874.998 --> 00:02:47,734.999 I feel as if it was also sleep, rest, rest, which is different. 31 00:02:47,964.999 --> 00:02:48,744.999 Was also elusive. 32 00:02:49,639.999 --> 00:02:55,839.999 I'm thinking back to, like, what thoughts in my memory do remain around elementary school and that age. 33 00:02:55,839.999 --> 00:02:59,249.999 So, like, up to, what is that, 10, 11? It was elusive. 34 00:02:59,359.999 --> 00:03:07,289.998 My brain didn't so effectively shut off or shut up or calm down. 35 00:03:07,469.998 --> 00:03:08,409.998 And it was loud. 36 00:03:08,949.998 --> 00:03:10,959.998 So whether it was. 37 00:03:12,34.998 --> 00:03:15,184.998 Just a creation of not soothing white noise. 38 00:03:15,254.998 --> 00:03:33,164.9995 as I experienced it, and probably more often self critical or critical in general narrative they would wind me up to, a degree that, that rest, sleep specifically, and in general rest was particularly elusive. 39 00:03:33,404.9995 --> 00:04:07,734.9975 So there was, you know, It was also, as a result, an introduction to a whole bunch of really well, varying degrees of unhealthy coping skills and attempts to counter that, right? Like, if I eat enough sugar, I'll crash in 30 minutes and it won't matter what my brain is doing, or you know, and that eventually would evolve into Things arguably stronger than than sober that I would consume as a result of many things, one outcome of which that I was going for would be for things to, for the volume to turn down, if not shut off altogether. 40 00:04:08,574.9985 --> 00:04:09,774.9975 So that's what kind of started. 41 00:04:10,915.9975 --> 00:04:14,745.9975 Yeah, so I assume stronger than sugar equals some sort of drug. 42 00:04:16,214.9965 --> 00:04:18,213.39566667 Yeah, substances, alcohol. 43 00:04:18,213.39566667 --> 00:04:20,904.8965 Yeah, some sort of drug. 44 00:04:23,205.9965 --> 00:04:54,349.9965 How did that relationship evolve between trying to stop what I hear as fairly intrusive thought cycles that are you from resting both in your waking mind and in sleep? It worked until it didn't I think in addition to a lot of the narratives thought process and thoughts in general, not only being intrusive, but also cyclical, which was an odd thing that I do recall quite clearly. 45 00:04:54,509.9965 --> 00:04:55,229.9965 It's interesting. 46 00:04:55,259.9955 --> 00:04:57,449.9945 I'm trying to go back like through high school. 47 00:04:57,449.9945 --> 00:05:03,959.9955 I was always good at learning systems and high school was no exception and it launched me into a particularly good college. 48 00:05:04,309.9955 --> 00:05:05,139.9955 Cause on paper. 49 00:05:06,174.9955 --> 00:05:28,454.9945 Excellent student, but it launched me into adaptability and really leaning into and becoming acutely aware of just how adaptable I would say, not exclusively madness is, but like the human body and mind are in general, like I can actually function for a pretty decent amount of time at a pretty high level of productivity and effectiveness on very little. 50 00:05:28,505.0945 --> 00:05:38,35.0945 So, then it would be kind of leaning, I guess it evolved into then leaning into kind of a a minimalistic relationship with with rest. 51 00:05:38,55.0945 --> 00:05:42,605.0945 I really like again on paper, which was really I liked tangible thing. 52 00:05:42,715.0945 --> 00:05:44,95.0945 Like, here are the outcomes. 53 00:05:44,95.0945 --> 00:05:44,925.0945 Here's the performance. 54 00:05:45,5.0935 --> 00:05:47,275.0935 Here are the metrics that I've arbitrarily picked. 55 00:05:47,895.0935 --> 00:05:52,935.0935 And based on those metrics, my relationship with rest is actually quite healthy because. 56 00:05:53,605.0935 --> 00:05:54,5.0935 You know. 57 00:05:54,545.0935 --> 00:06:04,85.0925 Dean's list top 10 percent of my graduating class, getting into a really good business school, early admission, like all made the team ace the test. 58 00:06:04,955.0935 --> 00:06:05,385.0935 So. 59 00:06:06,565.0935 --> 00:06:10,485.0935 Any general feedback of like, you know, it all starts with a good night's sleep. 60 00:06:10,505.0935 --> 00:06:19,275.0935 I'd be like, well, does it though? Because these are also your metrics and I'm hitting all of those markers and I'm lucky to get three and a half hours of sleep. 61 00:06:19,806.0935 --> 00:06:21,866.0935 Three and a half hours of sleep as a high schooler. 62 00:06:23,275.0935 --> 00:06:23,775.0935 Yeah. 63 00:06:23,935.0925 --> 00:06:28,395.0925 I mean, well, towards the end I then would go in really late. 64 00:06:28,415.0925 --> 00:06:36,15.0925 So I probably was catching up and getting closer to somewhere between six and eight, but yeah, not, not sleeping well up, up a good portion of the night. 65 00:06:36,556.0925 --> 00:06:44,725.0925 Was that the intrusive thoughts or the coping with the intrusive thoughts that was keeping you awake? I don't know. 66 00:06:44,755.0925 --> 00:06:45,545.0925 Pick your poison. 67 00:06:45,595.0925 --> 00:06:47,85.0925 Chicken and egg stuff, I think. 68 00:06:47,455.0925 --> 00:06:56,986.0935 If I were to guess, I would guess thoughts, Regret of what I did or didn't do that day, or like the week before, and then some random thing from like fifth grade would pop into my brain. 69 00:06:57,66.0925 --> 00:07:02,26.0925 You've said a few times on paper, you mean. 70 00:07:02,761.0935 --> 00:07:09,111.0935 were, you were checking all the boxes of what sort of a good student, because we're still in high school now. 71 00:07:09,111.0935 --> 00:07:14,991.0935 So a good student, a good working towards being successful in capitalism. 72 00:07:15,241.0935 --> 00:07:18,435.0945 What was the reality? Oh, it's interesting. 73 00:07:18,865.0945 --> 00:07:40,375.0935 What was the reality, like, juxtaposed with what it looked like on paper? I would assume crippling anxiety effectively masked through any number of like the gamut of substances, whether that, you know, be marijuana or food or social interaction my perception was effectively masked. 74 00:07:41,55.0935 --> 00:07:55,575.0935 I've, I've come a long way with the accuracy of self perception and my relationship to that, I would not be surprised if I was not as effectively masking as, as I convinced myself I was, I also think I have a lot of people in my life and always have who care a good deal about me. 75 00:07:55,755.0925 --> 00:08:21,724.1925 And I've also come to appreciate that people, particularly caring people with no malice whatsoever, but in a state of genuine hope might prefer to co sign what I, was projecting, where did you learn or what inspired you to mask so effectively? Where'd I learn it? Self taught. 76 00:08:22,174.1925 --> 00:08:29,604.192 I don't recall mimicking or parroting other people's behaviors, the word good fucked me over pretty extensively. 77 00:08:30,64.192 --> 00:08:38,584.192 I had come up with what my life should look like, what my relationship with my older brother should be what team I should make. 78 00:08:39,44.192 --> 00:08:46,174.192 And I was always fixated on outcomes on step 10, and rarely considered steps one through. 79 00:08:47,964.192 --> 00:09:13,684.191 I remember having a stretch, probably, it might have been as early as elementary school where I really wanted to be an architect, and I could draw a house with a little more detail and interest then just kind of sketching something out But I remember getting so worked up that what I could picture in my head, I didn't have the ability without any dedicated training or instruction that I couldn't just, if it was in my head, surely I could. 80 00:09:13,994.191 --> 00:09:14,964.191 I could create it in here. 81 00:09:14,964.191 --> 00:09:26,44.19 Why couldn't I create it in the, in the real world, that disconnect? I never really got comfortable with accepting that if I can imagine it, surely I can create it. 82 00:09:26,970.191 --> 00:09:27,310.191 Wow. 83 00:09:33,10.191 --> 00:09:47,755.191 That Image of you accomplishing so much, but assuming that you should be accomplishing all of that with less distress attached. 84 00:09:48,125.19 --> 00:10:03,625.191 So then masking struggle, distress, shame, whatever it was in order to perform the effortlessness that you had internalized was how things should be completed. 85 00:10:04,385.191 --> 00:10:07,35.191 Feels much like. 86 00:10:08,310.191 --> 00:10:19,520.192 Early conditioning society and capitalism I believe today that the whole concept of you can be anything you want to be if you put your mind to it. 87 00:10:20,290.192 --> 00:10:22,500.192 I bought that hook, line, sinker. 88 00:10:24,880.191 --> 00:10:35,250.191 And I feel as if, I have joked about like, it would have been cool if that message included, but you will have to work your ass off and you will have to fail nine times out of 10. 89 00:10:38,50.191 --> 00:10:50,840.19 I never conceptualized that that struggle and this concept of failure was anything positive or contributory to success. 90 00:10:52,60.19 --> 00:10:53,440.19 It was very binary. 91 00:10:53,500.19 --> 00:11:02,250.19 It was either you did it right, it happened, and it happened the way you wanted to, like, really specific, or you fucked up and you blew it. 92 00:11:03,80.19 --> 00:11:14,840.19 And I think somewhere in there, probably got to a place where shame started to get comfortable, was like, not only did you blow it, you blew it and you wasted your fucking time. 93 00:11:16,461.19 --> 00:11:17,230.19 That's a yeah. 94 00:11:17,621.19 --> 00:11:18,751.19 to live with as a kid. 95 00:11:19,950.19 --> 00:11:20,340.19 Yeah. 96 00:11:21,830.19 --> 00:11:22,260.19 Yeah. 97 00:11:22,320.19 --> 00:11:34,730.19 And I, and, and, you know, I also befriended not just like destructive or, maladaptive distractions to that narrative. 98 00:11:35,110.19 --> 00:11:41,240.191 I also, to a degree really enjoyed, you know, going to bed was like close the door in your bedroom and it's just me. 99 00:11:42,0.191 --> 00:11:44,10.191 So there isn't feedback from anyone. 100 00:11:44,410.192 --> 00:11:51,800.192 Any groups that I would kind of lean on to or, family system participants or, archetypes, like there was nothing else. 101 00:11:51,850.192 --> 00:12:13,350.192 And I only had those narratives, whereas if there was music, if there was sports, if there was family, even a family dinner that I would roll my eyes about and like, can I please be excused? I don't know how accurately I was longing to leave that table because there was conversation that I could engage in that was other than the internal conversation I was having. 102 00:12:13,660.192 --> 00:12:20,360.192 So yeah, and all that posturing is exhausting. 103 00:12:20,360.192 --> 00:12:37,920.193 So there was exhaustion and very little respite as I recall, you know, and then it kind of parlayed into I think formally diagnosed depression, in which case I would get me out of bed or open the shades took an act of Congress. 104 00:12:38,40.193 --> 00:12:58,624.192 I want to explore that chapter, but first I, I really want to ask, did you have adults in your life rest or were they modeling effortless productivity or what were the adults in your life modeling? It was a, it was a range. 105 00:12:58,674.192 --> 00:13:00,584.193 I mean, my father was, an accountant. 106 00:13:00,684.193 --> 00:13:08,564.192 And during tax season he would be gone before my brother and I got up to go to school and he. 107 00:13:10,224.192 --> 00:13:18,204.191 in some of those formative years for those months during tax season and tax prep it was a treat if we could stay up and, and see him when he came home. 108 00:13:18,594.191 --> 00:13:19,574.191 Really long hours. 109 00:13:21,84.19 --> 00:13:25,454.1895 Other than those times we for the most part, ate dinner together as a family. 110 00:13:25,994.1895 --> 00:13:31,104.1895 He played, he modeled free time and play and exercise. 111 00:13:31,114.1895 --> 00:13:35,134.1895 He was on, I think he was on like a, maybe it was older, but I think it was an under 40s. 112 00:13:35,929.1895 --> 00:13:36,629.1895 Soccer team. 113 00:13:36,889.1895 --> 00:13:41,39.1895 He had always as far as I can remember, gotten together and played golf on Sunday morning. 114 00:13:41,489.1895 --> 00:13:52,779.1885 In fact, we were just talking about it over the holidays a couple of weeks ago that they've been, he and six guys who've been playing at the same course, I think for like 35 years. 115 00:13:53,459.1895 --> 00:14:00,329.1895 So there was and is still I don't know markers of like a concept presentation wise. 116 00:14:00,389.1895 --> 00:14:01,569.1895 My mom. 117 00:14:04,19.1895 --> 00:14:15,789.1895 Worked, was very dedicated in I believe it was called title one, which was an educational kind of alternative educational program in the elementary schools and in the town that I grew up in I think she began that work. 118 00:14:17,129.1905 --> 00:14:21,879.1905 I'm not sure at what age I was, it might have been halfway through elementary school. 119 00:14:21,879.1915 --> 00:14:23,279.1905 It might not have been from middle school. 120 00:14:23,639.1905 --> 00:14:24,219.1905 I don't remember. 121 00:14:25,959.1905 --> 00:14:31,919.1905 We took family vacations, we're fortunate enough to be able to do that for the majority, if not the entirety of my childhood. 122 00:14:32,514.1905 --> 00:14:34,574.1905 So there was downtime modeled there. 123 00:14:35,234.1905 --> 00:14:47,924.1905 Other adults in my life, neighborhood wise, were probably either playing mahjong with my mom Wednesday night or playing golf with my dad on Sundays. 124 00:14:48,614.1895 --> 00:14:56,23.1875 If any of them had racing thoughts like you did? no, I never, I never, I never brought that, up as a topic. 125 00:14:56,233.1875 --> 00:15:03,763.1885 I made a unilateral decision and held on to it pretty firmly for, I would have to guess, but probably, probably. 126 00:15:05,28.1885 --> 00:15:12,838.1885 a decade or two that I was terminally unique in the internal monologue that I, I had access to. 127 00:15:14,14.1885 --> 00:15:18,8.1875 Depression is very isolating It can be, can't it? Yeah. 128 00:15:18,558.1885 --> 00:15:18,878.1885 Yeah. 129 00:15:18,894.1885 --> 00:15:20,734.1885 it, it says things like that. 130 00:15:20,744.1885 --> 00:15:32,714.2885 I don't know either of your parents, but it probably told you that there's no way that while dad was golfing, he could have ever suffered with racing thoughts and it tells us that over and over. 131 00:15:34,578.2885 --> 00:15:34,978.2885 Yeah. 132 00:15:35,8.2875 --> 00:15:42,28.286 And for a decent amount of time, because a lot of the other messaging that I do feel I received was how to. 133 00:15:43,793.286 --> 00:15:49,963.286 externally mark what a good day was, right? And I continued to hit those markers. 134 00:15:50,494.286 --> 00:15:55,344.288 It was make the team, what'd you get on the test, score the goal, that kind of stuff. 135 00:15:55,634.288 --> 00:15:58,494.288 And one of the biggest things was, you know, we're going to college. 136 00:15:59,704.288 --> 00:16:01,664.288 I don't remember feeling pressure about it. 137 00:16:01,664.288 --> 00:16:04,244.288 It was just I was going to college. 138 00:16:04,244.288 --> 00:16:20,864.287 It was a question of, like, can you get to a good college? And I decided on my own that I would try and get into the best college I could, because surely that would fix, change, shift, alter, redefine, It was another form of escapism. 139 00:16:21,484.287 --> 00:16:25,134.287 And, and there was some buy in to you can be anything you want. 140 00:16:25,154.287 --> 00:16:28,94.287 And, you know, you go to college and set you up for success for the rest of your life. 141 00:16:28,504.287 --> 00:16:37,114.287 And these are messages that, again, I don't recall anyone sat me down and like, there was no flow chart or organizational chart of what I needed to do by when in my life. 142 00:16:37,684.287 --> 00:16:51,784.287 And I had a lot of freedom, particularly because my approach to getting the grades that I did in performing academically, the way that I did was different than how my older brother navigated school and academics. 143 00:16:52,54.287 --> 00:16:59,154.287 And based on the markers that we all kind of collectively we're looking to hit I was surpassing those outcomes. 144 00:16:59,584.287 --> 00:17:18,264.288 So it was kind of tough because it had been established that these are the performance things that, these are the ones to aim for and I would hit or surpass them There was no conversation about if two weeks before tax season, your dad was secretly having panic attacks because he knew what was going to happen. 145 00:17:18,264.288 --> 00:17:27,864.388 I'm not saying that was happening, but you wouldn't have known because of the, generations approach to even identifying it themselves. 146 00:17:27,864.388 --> 00:17:29,404.388 And that's not a blame thing. 147 00:17:29,404.388 --> 00:17:39,354.387 It's just a different cultural environment that they came up in versus now, well, I, I mean, yes, I was raised with wanting to be at the kids' table. 148 00:17:39,594.387 --> 00:17:40,494.387 This is the adult table. 149 00:17:40,494.387 --> 00:17:44,774.387 This is the kids' table, right? Like from, as, as far back as I can remember. 150 00:17:46,59.387 --> 00:17:51,439.387 Especially when my niece was born, there was like a an adult desire to like, Oh, let's sit at the kids table. 151 00:17:51,439.387 --> 00:17:54,520.387 We don't want to sit at the kids table and like, Wow. 152 00:17:54,629.387 --> 00:17:56,9.387 sat, we all sat together. 153 00:17:56,259.387 --> 00:18:04,759.387 When I, go to friends houses and we have like kind of family and friends dinners, like we're all sitting and we all eat together and how was your day is asked of everybody. 154 00:18:04,779.387 --> 00:18:09,69.387 Not, did you do these? Being so we can assess the success of your day. 155 00:18:09,69.387 --> 00:18:18,269.386 But how was your day? How did you feel today? And it's a question that's posed to the 40 year olds, the 30 year olds in the five year old at all sitting at the same table. 156 00:18:18,340.487 --> 00:18:22,340.4203333 Okay. 157 00:18:22,340.4203333 --> 00:18:26,340.3536667 Okay. 158 00:18:26,384.387 --> 00:18:35,334.387 can learn a system and I feel I'm adapted at learning a system at one point in my life so that I could then manipulate it perhaps today. 159 00:18:35,334.387 --> 00:18:39,294.387 So I can manipulate it as well, but maybe for better purposes and outcomes. 160 00:18:39,774.387 --> 00:18:42,704.387 What's implicit in that is I got a pretty good thermometer. 161 00:18:42,714.387 --> 00:18:46,139.387 Like, I'm pretty good at Taking the temperature check of the situation I find myself in. 162 00:18:46,709.387 --> 00:18:51,140.387 So no one needed to sit me down and state definitively Okay. 163 00:18:51,249.387 --> 00:18:52,409.387 that these are the markers. 164 00:18:52,899.387 --> 00:18:57,189.388 Cause I was as perceptive then as, as I believe I am now. 165 00:18:59,400.389 --> 00:19:00,440.389 I'm curious, so. 166 00:19:00,755.389 --> 00:19:02,965.389 We're in, we're in high school. 167 00:19:03,185.389 --> 00:19:09,935.389 And at some point you draw the shades, you alluded to the dark room that no one could get you out of. 168 00:19:10,155.389 --> 00:19:15,934.4515 When did that show up at before college? Was that during college? It was before college. 169 00:19:16,74.4515 --> 00:19:19,444.4515 It was like in the process of it. 170 00:19:19,564.4515 --> 00:19:21,624.4515 It could have been most of high school. 171 00:19:21,624.4515 --> 00:19:37,354.4505 I mean, there were it's yeah, there's a lot of my reflection on my childhood, particularly formative high school years is not linear, which is inconvenient because it was quite chronological. 172 00:19:37,604.4505 --> 00:19:41,410.5705 So I think it first peak when Andrew was getting ready. 173 00:19:41,410.5705 --> 00:19:43,860.5705 My older brother was getting ready to go to college. 174 00:19:44,290.5705 --> 00:19:44,910.5695 People were. 175 00:19:46,540.5705 --> 00:20:02,750.5715 As I perceived it, paying an awful lot of attention to him and really excited for where he was going, and I felt, though at no point was, but I felt neglected and that I wasn't getting any attention and, that I didn't have the support that my older brother did. 176 00:20:02,820.5705 --> 00:20:38,965.571 I recalled generally that my parents were very supportive and did hold space in the, in the best ways that they knew how and probably in a few ways they didn't know how, but they sat with me and heard what it was that, you know, I was eating my lunch and what it was that had gotten me so upset and, you know, To the degree that I could articulate it, they would, reflect it back to me not due to, like, nonviolent communication trainings or anything like that, but just being, being parents and intuitively caring for their, for their son and it would pacify and you know, and it would return, it would spike up again. 177 00:20:39,65.571 --> 00:20:45,795.571 There were I've come to learn when he's going off to college, I'm 13, so. 178 00:20:46,580.571 --> 00:21:02,260.571 Three decades later, there were and still are plenty of things that still need to be dislodged and massaged and unpacked in my own perceptions and what I internalized and what I did not internalize about my upbringing and my surrounding. 179 00:21:02,980.571 --> 00:21:14,570.571 That that made it challenging, the, the why, why not me or the why me, I mean, it was always a victim, it was always and that's like what's so cool about R. 180 00:21:14,570.571 --> 00:21:14,580.5705 E. 181 00:21:14,580.5705 --> 00:21:14,830.57 S. 182 00:21:14,840.571 --> 00:21:14,860.571 T. 183 00:21:15,0.571 --> 00:22:00,990.57 as, and how I, or one can relate to it, is it's not accessible if I'm future tripping or, or ruminating, it's only accessible in this present moment, like, like a power nap is fucking rad, but I can't get 20 winks If I'm feeding into the anxiety of the thing an hour, two hours, four days, two weeks from now, any more than I can, if you know, that meeting this morning or that thing that I did two weeks ago that I really wish I hadn't done if I can't incorporate like self reflection, self compassion pull out learning opportunities and then reinvest in myself so that I can get current. 184 00:22:01,40.57 --> 00:22:07,150.57 I mean, like In the present moment, there's nothing to be worried about no matter how shitty my situation is. 185 00:22:08,770.57 --> 00:22:14,390.569 I genuinely believe that I, I, and I can tap into that with a lot more frequency today than I ever could. 186 00:22:15,280.569 --> 00:22:22,890.569 And as a result, I have a lot more touch points to even be able to articulate with more clarity. 187 00:22:23,690.569 --> 00:22:32,344.6315 I'm curious, I don't know the answer to this question, and I know you, did you go to college? I did. 188 00:22:32,754.6315 --> 00:22:35,94.6315 I took, I took some time, but I did. 189 00:22:35,364.6315 --> 00:22:35,664.6315 Yeah. 190 00:22:36,130.569 --> 00:22:50,880.569 So did you launch the way that you thought? You would launch into college or was there a different route? Part of my, I'll show them was that I would get into, the hardest school that I could get into. 191 00:22:52,120.569 --> 00:23:01,230.569 And I did, I don't know how I established that that was the hardest school, but I probably just ended up getting scared of like talking about an Ivy League and someone said that it was a baby Ivy. 192 00:23:01,230.569 --> 00:23:05,910.569 I don't know if it even was at the time, but I was like, okay, that, that feels like I could probably do that. 193 00:23:07,0.569 --> 00:23:29,270.469 I remember, I mean, I lasted, I mean, A semester at WashU and transferred mid freshman year to GW for a list of reasons that I, I think had elements of truth to them, but really just to justify that pretty ill advised shit. 194 00:23:30,210.468 --> 00:23:36,0.4685 And it was just more of the same you know, same shit, different zip code when I got to GW. 195 00:23:38,650.4685 --> 00:23:45,760.4675 It was at that point that substances, drugs and alcohol in particular took a far more prominent role in my day to day. 196 00:23:46,180.4665 --> 00:23:52,790.4675 Yeah, so I can do some math because you said you've been sober for 11 years. 197 00:23:52,800.4675 --> 00:23:52,820.4675 Yeah. 198 00:23:52,820.5675 --> 00:23:52,960.3675 Yeah. 199 00:23:53,650.4675 --> 00:23:55,280.4675 And then we talked about college. 200 00:23:55,400.4675 --> 00:24:00,904.53 There seems like there's a, maybe a decade, in maybe. 201 00:24:00,930.4675 --> 00:24:01,350.4675 two. 202 00:24:01,620.4675 --> 00:24:09,614.53 Did you sleep at all for that decade? Did you rest at all in that decade? Well, so, I had this great stretch. 203 00:24:09,944.53 --> 00:24:23,684.529 I mean, there were stretches of very high functioning, probably already established addiction, I really don't know, but there were decent stretches, I would submit, years at a time, of, of high functioning addiction. 204 00:24:24,414.529 --> 00:24:28,734.53 And, I left school early. 205 00:24:28,934.53 --> 00:24:35,159.53 It took me, To get my undergrad degree seven, eight years. 206 00:24:35,699.53 --> 00:24:37,949.53 Maybe I left school early. 207 00:24:38,569.53 --> 00:24:41,339.529 I believe after at least the amount of time 1 would. 208 00:24:41,899.53 --> 00:24:43,399.53 Be completing their sophomore year. 209 00:24:43,909.53 --> 00:24:44,609.53 My transcript. 210 00:24:45,129.529 --> 00:24:48,219.529 Said otherwise, but I had been in college for two years. 211 00:24:48,999.529 --> 00:24:56,729.529 I think maybe through that summer also, but then I came back to the Boston area and got a job. 212 00:25:03,389.529 --> 00:25:08,589.529 Did I get a job then? Man, it's, it's such a blur. 213 00:25:10,189.528 --> 00:25:14,269.528 I decided I was going to do construction. 214 00:25:15,449.528 --> 00:25:26,459.528 I was introduced to I think it was my father had a client who did construction and I was introduced as a green thumb, not a green thumb, just totally green to construction because I didn't have any gardening experience either. 215 00:25:26,819.527 --> 00:25:30,949.527 And was mentored and it was this kind of really cool boutique. 216 00:25:31,764.527 --> 00:25:40,104.526 And a upper crusty finished work that evolved into like general contracting and construction, high end construction. 217 00:25:40,164.527 --> 00:25:47,494.527 The egg that I did for a couple of years living in Brookline, Massachusetts, and I loved it. 218 00:25:47,584.527 --> 00:25:50,214.527 It was, it was a small group. 219 00:25:50,434.527 --> 00:25:51,784.527 It was always the same people. 220 00:25:52,184.527 --> 00:25:54,704.527 It was tactile at the end of the day. 221 00:25:54,734.527 --> 00:25:57,314.527 It wasn't, there wasn't like a, a thing of paper. 222 00:25:57,679.527 --> 00:26:05,209.527 A stack of paper that got smaller was like, there's a deck or there's a, you know, a handrail or like this, we framed out all these windows, whatever it might be. 223 00:26:05,839.527 --> 00:26:14,449.528 And I loved it and it paid pretty good and we got into a a healthy relationship as healthy as I could contribute to a healthy relationship. 224 00:26:14,619.528 --> 00:26:16,549.528 Certainly half of it at least was quite healthy. 225 00:26:17,159.528 --> 00:26:17,719.528 And. 226 00:26:18,584.528 --> 00:26:42,284.528 Within that time span, I was offered to, like, run a crew, like, there were, like, I think the day that I was supposed to go sign the contract at that construction finished work company, I had an anxiety attack, didn't go in, and called in, like, three hours later, and it was like, you know what, I've just decided I've been thinking about it for months, which was not true, that I really want to go back to school and get my master's. 227 00:26:43,659.528 --> 00:26:47,928.5905 Was the anxiety about taking the job it was responsibility. 228 00:26:47,928.5905 --> 00:26:48,768.5905 I would be tethered. 229 00:26:48,768.5905 --> 00:27:05,647.6530001 I would be, this would be my life and you didn't want that because of what the job was or because of the concept of being tethered? because of the definitive nature of this is what my life will be because of what would be in that, in that narrative. 230 00:27:06,467.6530001 --> 00:27:09,547.6520001 It was not the opening up of opportunities. 231 00:27:09,547.6520001 --> 00:27:11,327.6530001 It was the removal of any of them. 232 00:27:12,567.6530001 --> 00:27:13,877.6530001 There was no more pivot point. 233 00:27:13,897.6530001 --> 00:27:16,667.6530001 It was, you know, like, like I didn't have any other choices. 234 00:27:16,767.6530001 --> 00:27:19,57.6530001 Surely I couldn't change my mind if I signed up. 235 00:27:20,122.6530001 --> 00:27:43,552.6520001 So I freaked out and I bailed and I don't remember the details of what I did before figuring out that because I had eventually graduated with my undergrad from UMass Boston I ended up going back in, I think, to get my masters in secondary education and like early American lit did not last very long. 236 00:27:43,702.6520001 --> 00:27:47,32.6520001 I think I started to bring substances with me. 237 00:27:47,32.6520001 --> 00:27:49,302.6520001 I think I started to bring substances with me. 238 00:27:50,267.6520001 --> 00:27:52,707.6520001 This doesn't feel like it's accurately in order. 239 00:27:52,847.6520001 --> 00:28:17,148.6228334 The relationship, yeah, the relationship that I was in she had enough self awareness and self compassion and arguably compassion for me as well to leave the relationship and Okay. 240 00:28:17,148.6228334 --> 00:28:27,417.6510001 Bye to be my life. 241 00:28:28,17.6510001 --> 00:28:32,997.6530001 And I lasted in Europe about ten and a half, eleven months. 242 00:28:32,997.6530001 --> 00:28:36,508.5905 I was in Spain, teaching English, doing, Bye. 243 00:28:36,878.6905 --> 00:28:52,973.4905 Okay. 244 00:28:54,597.6520001 --> 00:29:01,207.6530001 the willingness and ability to help me navigate doing the things that I wanted to do that would help me kind of shut down. 245 00:29:01,357.6530001 --> 00:29:19,282.6530001 So, and I was getting paid euros under the table at a time where while still in Europe, I wasn't necessarily reaping the benefits of that, but it occurred to me that if I were to go back to the States, I think it was like two and a half to one, the conversion rate at that point. 246 00:29:19,912.6530001 --> 00:29:24,723.5905 So, And just to be clear, I assume you're not getting paid under the table for the teaching gig. 247 00:29:26,412.6530001 --> 00:29:27,972.6530001 you may, you're free to assume it. 248 00:29:30,152.6530001 --> 00:29:31,142.6530001 I but I was. 249 00:29:31,242.6530001 --> 00:29:38,452.6540001 I I mean, I was in Barcelona for 11 months and I had a travel visa. 250 00:29:39,242.6540001 --> 00:29:43,692.6540001 I think that don't, doesn't last 11 months. 251 00:29:44,102.6540001 --> 00:29:46,692.6540001 I certainly don't believe I had a work visa. 252 00:29:46,962.6540001 --> 00:29:51,181.6165001 So things are blurry in this time, but you're oh, yeah. 253 00:29:51,182.6540001 --> 00:29:58,52.6540001 showing up in the world in an oddly productive manner, even in, your sickness. 254 00:29:58,52.6540001 --> 00:29:58,802.6540001 It sounds like. 255 00:30:00,861.7165001 --> 00:30:00,911.7165001 Yeah. 256 00:30:01,11.7165001 --> 00:30:14,361.7155001 I was able to find and position myself in scenarios where I could pretty consistently figure it out, figure out how to get the most, maximize the most out of it. 257 00:30:14,381.7165001 --> 00:30:17,611.7165001 And then right around that time that the peak experience. 258 00:30:18,281.7165001 --> 00:30:20,651.7165001 Came to I would burn it all to the ground. 259 00:30:20,662.6540001 --> 00:30:20,682.6540001 Yeah. 260 00:30:21,901.7165001 --> 00:30:31,841.7165001 Yeah, that's that's that I can say without hesitation is is all the blurry I don't know what order any of this I came home. 261 00:30:33,152.6540001 --> 00:30:39,430.1040001 Okay. 262 00:30:39,751.7155001 --> 00:30:52,501.7165001 really early when I was In Europe and then sleeping in because I towards the end I stopped teaching I quit and eventually came back to the States. 263 00:30:52,501.7165001 --> 00:30:59,711.7165001 I was here for like five weeks because I had set up another gig to go to the Galapagos to, to teach. 264 00:30:59,751.7165001 --> 00:31:10,651.7160001 And it was really ingratiating myself with a group of friends or peers until the point where I felt that they kind of had the inside angle on who I was or who I might be. 265 00:31:10,651.7160001 --> 00:31:11,891.7150001 And that scared the shit out of me. 266 00:31:11,891.7160001 --> 00:31:13,171.7160001 So then I moved to another group. 267 00:31:13,431.7150001 --> 00:31:22,201.7160001 I was doing that with countries, right? So like, then I went to the Galapagos where I could start a new narrative of who I was and what I was doing and what I was going to do with my life. 268 00:31:22,891.7160001 --> 00:31:23,311.7160001 And. 269 00:31:23,711.7160001 --> 00:31:37,51.7160001 Kind of just hope through this buckshot approach of life that like maybe it would stick and I didn't know what that meant Maybe there'd be a woman there who had resources and we didn't have to work. 270 00:31:37,61.7160001 --> 00:31:57,876.7170001 That was probably all I was looking for That I wouldn't have to work that I could just stay in bed or go to the beach or swim in the Pacific or like learn how to scuba dive and just do stuff but not necessarily enjoyable stuff Stuff that one can glean experiences and lessons and growth from, but I wasn't in it for that. 271 00:31:58,606.7170001 --> 00:32:02,756.7160001 I liked the idea, the concept of just fluidity and non attachment. 272 00:32:03,456.7170001 --> 00:32:15,416.8190001 But not in a healthy, like, dis identification way of separating myself from an emotional experience to identify that instead I'm just an individual who is having an experience. 273 00:32:15,876.8190001 --> 00:32:22,356.8190001 Not, with any kind of productive, cathartic approach as a dynamic form of, escape and distraction. 274 00:32:23,517.7565001 --> 00:32:33,297.7555001 You would go to extremes to try to avoid whatever was happening in your mind. 275 00:32:33,317.7565001 --> 00:32:39,606.8190001 And the extremes changed as you got older and savvier Sure. 276 00:32:40,97.7555001 --> 00:32:41,497.7555001 maybe went further. 277 00:32:42,237.7555001 --> 00:32:47,347.7545001 But it really feels like the same thing when you were a kid. 278 00:32:48,166.8170001 --> 00:32:48,546.8170001 Totally. 279 00:32:48,892.7545001 --> 00:33:04,196.8160001 now you're smart enough to go to the Galapagos, I had more access to, yeah, became kind of a fun game, I think there was a degree of like, money's not real. 280 00:33:04,206.8160001 --> 00:33:05,446.8160001 None of this is real. 281 00:33:06,56.8160001 --> 00:33:13,806.8155001 Even with that outlook, there was a time, for a good stretch, where it was like, the consequences didn't even feel real to me. 282 00:33:14,196.8145001 --> 00:33:23,176.8155001 Like, it was like, okay, the consequence just means that, for the next X amount of days, weeks, months, or years, I will have to interact and show up in the world. 283 00:33:24,61.8155001 --> 00:33:24,441.8155001 Like this. 284 00:33:26,231.8155001 --> 00:33:30,301.8155001 And I felt confident that I could adjust to whatever like this meant. 285 00:33:31,742.7530001 --> 00:33:36,991.8155001 Was there a come to Jesus moment or was there something that broke it all? I actually did come to Jesus. 286 00:33:37,91.8155001 --> 00:33:40,582.6520001 No what broke it all? I had an intervention. 287 00:33:41,362.6510001 --> 00:33:48,932.6500001 One of the delusions that I constantly fell victim to of my own creation was that I was managing and masking who I was. 288 00:33:49,812.6510001 --> 00:34:03,602.6510001 And I mean, then I had an intervention and it was this perfect combination of exhaustion, the beginnings of withdrawals from opioids and just sheer overwhelm and shock that it was actually happening. 289 00:34:04,322.6510001 --> 00:34:05,292.6500001 Where I was. 290 00:34:05,847.6510001 --> 00:34:08,397.5510001 Presented in the first impact letter with the ultimate. 291 00:34:08,397.6510001 --> 00:34:09,547.6510001 I didn't get to the ultimatum. 292 00:34:09,547.6510001 --> 00:34:10,807.6510001 I was presented with the option. 293 00:34:10,817.6510001 --> 00:34:18,397.6510001 You can either X or and before I heard why I stood up and I've shared this many times. 294 00:34:18,487.6510001 --> 00:34:19,477.6510001 I didn't stand up. 295 00:34:20,472.6510001 --> 00:34:33,302.6510001 As far as I know, in reflection, and it feels very accurate, I didn't stand up to take ownership of, or accountability of, or to, like, charge into this new direction of self care and self awareness and self discovery. 296 00:34:33,692.6510001 --> 00:34:41,712.6510001 I stood up because I didn't want to hear nine more fucking letters about the shit that I had done to each of these people individually, not as a group. 297 00:34:42,102.6510001 --> 00:34:44,772.6510001 This was the best way to get everybody the fuck out of my apartment. 298 00:34:45,782.6510001 --> 00:34:53,722.6500001 And yeah, I wouldn't use that turn of phrase to express, the awakening, the shift, the pivot of my life. 299 00:34:53,872.6500001 --> 00:35:06,502.6520001 But there's a laundry list of pivotal moments in my life where I did X amount of this substance and I didn't OD or, you know, missed the pickup for this thing. 300 00:35:06,512.6520001 --> 00:35:09,832.6520001 And as a result Didn't get into that legal trouble trouble. 301 00:35:09,912.6520001 --> 00:35:20,22.6520001 It never occurred to me that I could jump out the window of my apartment or run down the front, the stairs to the front door during the intervention until I was catching my connection flight in Atlanta. 302 00:35:20,882.6520001 --> 00:35:22,142.6520001 I don't know why it didn't occur to me. 303 00:35:22,472.6520001 --> 00:35:25,2.6515001 It seems logical, but it never occurred to me. 304 00:35:25,2.6515001 --> 00:35:27,862.6520001 And had I, I don't know where the hell I would have gone. 305 00:35:27,872.6520001 --> 00:35:31,762.6520001 Cause it's not what happened, but I would not have made it to treatment. 306 00:35:32,842.6520001 --> 00:35:33,772.6520001 I don't know why. 307 00:35:33,852.6520001 --> 00:35:35,2.6510001 I don't know why it stuck. 308 00:35:35,412.6520001 --> 00:35:36,532.6520001 To the degree that it did. 309 00:35:37,612.6520001 --> 00:35:44,122.6520001 I was kicking and screaming for the majority of it, not like actively, but that I was pretty passive, in engagement. 310 00:35:44,932.6520001 --> 00:35:50,782.6520001 But somewhere in there, I slowly became a little more comfortable with the present moment that I found myself in. 311 00:35:51,122.6520001 --> 00:35:55,702.6520001 And more significant, perhaps I began, and I don't know where this came from. 312 00:35:56,212.6520001 --> 00:36:07,727.5520001 I genuinely don't, I would imagine through mentorship and just the observation of the people that I was now surrounding myself with, But more and more, I became okay, not with being not okay. 313 00:36:08,147.5520001 --> 00:36:17,157.5520001 I became more and more okay with not knowing what I was going to discover when I turned the perceptions inward. 314 00:36:17,217.5510001 --> 00:36:23,357.5520001 Like, it always bothered me, scared me that people were going to figure out who I was before I did. 315 00:36:24,317.5520001 --> 00:36:27,757.5520001 And I never really went further or deeper than that with that fear. 316 00:36:28,97.5520001 --> 00:36:30,587.5520001 But that was a genuine fear. 317 00:36:31,237.5520001 --> 00:36:41,157.5520001 And most of the activities and decisions like actions that I took or actions that I didn't take can surely all be traced back to that fear. 318 00:36:42,217.5520001 --> 00:36:52,797.5515001 And somewhere, you know, over the last 11 years, I don't know where I probably could identify a couple of markers in hindsight, but. 319 00:36:53,947.5515001 --> 00:36:56,647.5505001 It started to be okay that I, well, I don't know. 320 00:36:57,212.5515001 --> 00:36:58,802.5515001 Like, I don't know, it became okay. 321 00:36:59,382.5515001 --> 00:37:04,102.5515001 Not just as an answer to someone else's questions, but to an answer of my own self reflection and self observation. 322 00:37:04,822.5515001 --> 00:37:11,462.5515001 It no longer was, where did that come from? I must be a piece of shit, or I must be a thick individual, or I must be the only person who, whatever the hell. 323 00:37:12,232.5515001 --> 00:37:16,732.5515001 It just became, where the hell did that come from? I don't know, maybe I'm tired, I should probably drink more water. 324 00:37:17,442.5515001 --> 00:37:19,712.5515001 It was no longer cyclical, it wasn't a rabbit hole. 325 00:37:20,247.5515001 --> 00:37:30,427.5515001 It just became, I don't know, but like, let's be aware that we can do that, and that we still have the ability to go in that direction, and let's put forth some effort to not go in that direction. 326 00:37:31,148.489 --> 00:37:35,737.5525001 So the shoulds stopped sucking you in, Short answer, yeah. 327 00:37:36,517.5525001 --> 00:37:42,787.5515001 Yeah, it's not like an active part of my vocabulary these days, because they're pretty fucking useless. 328 00:37:45,248.49 --> 00:37:55,27.5525001 How have your thoughts when trying to rest or not shifted in the 11 years you've been without substances? Geez. 329 00:37:56,737.5525001 --> 00:38:05,647.5525001 I still have times where I will like, keep my phone in my room as I'm going to bed. 330 00:38:06,297.5525001 --> 00:38:16,657.5525001 So there is, there's something there, right? There's a, I don't wanna miss out there, you know, checking in on what's going on in the world because I'm about to go to sleep and I'm gonna miss so much over the next eight hours. 331 00:38:16,657.5525001 --> 00:38:23,517.5525001 I think there's still an element of that and I'm pretty damn quick to be like, you know what, today was a full day. 332 00:38:23,987.5525001 --> 00:38:25,607.5525001 Not necessarily good day or bad day. 333 00:38:25,637.5525001 --> 00:38:45,367.5505001 Sometimes it's a shitty day and it's like there is an awareness that shuts down the cyclical thoughts I'll ruminate like, Oh man, would have been so cool if that meeting earlier today went different but even, even in, even in the self awareness of like anticipatory, like anxiety, it's not like, fuck, I'm going to totally bomb this meeting tomorrow morning. 334 00:38:45,367.5505001 --> 00:38:45,467.5505001 It's. 335 00:38:46,287.5505001 --> 00:38:49,17.5505001 Oh, I'm pretty anxious for this meeting and then I'll be like, well, that makes sense. 336 00:38:49,17.5505001 --> 00:38:53,467.5505001 It is pretty important and it does align with this and it's a great opportunity to do X, Y, and Z. 337 00:38:53,807.5505001 --> 00:39:03,687.5510001 And then like, as if I'm talking to a different person, the next thought in my brain will probably be something along the lines of like, yeah, it is pretty important, but you're pretty prepared. 338 00:39:03,687.5510001 --> 00:39:04,107.5510001 You know what you're doing. 339 00:39:04,357.5510001 --> 00:39:05,7.5510001 You know what you're doing. 340 00:39:05,7.5510001 --> 00:39:13,117.5510001 You know what you're talking about and somewhere in there because of reps, because I now know definitively to my core. 341 00:39:13,517.5510001 --> 00:39:21,897.5510001 That the whole concept, at least as it's presented, of failure is the only way to get to any concept of success. 342 00:39:22,907.5510001 --> 00:39:25,517.5510001 You might be really uncomfortable, embarrassed, pissed. 343 00:39:26,92.5520001 --> 00:39:27,362.5520001 Like legit pissed. 344 00:39:27,632.5520001 --> 00:39:31,192.5520001 It might mean that there's a medium pizza all to yourself tomorrow night. 345 00:39:31,222.5520001 --> 00:39:39,642.5520001 And even if that's the reactivity and how you self soothe, knowing that it's not healthy, knowing that you're, you know, 44 and you definitely can't get away with that physically anymore. 346 00:39:40,222.5510001 --> 00:39:42,292.5510001 That also, Is okay. 347 00:39:43,622.5510001 --> 00:39:44,342.5510001 Just keep an eye on it. 348 00:39:44,982.5510001 --> 00:39:49,332.5510001 Like that whole, that part of the narrative is, is new. 349 00:39:49,762.5510001 --> 00:39:54,612.5510001 I don't know if it's been around the whole 11 plus years, but it's, it's new. 350 00:39:55,262.5500001 --> 00:39:57,382.5510001 Good doesn't come out of my mouth all that much. 351 00:39:58,62.5510001 --> 00:40:04,272.5510001 And when it does, I acknowledge it and try and correct and replace it with a more productive and useful word. 352 00:40:04,792.5510001 --> 00:40:19,102.5510001 And, I'm a much more welcoming of the present moment and I can acknowledge how patronizing the concept could be, and will certainly tell you that you're patronizing me if you were to say it to me. 353 00:40:19,612.5500001 --> 00:40:26,62.5500001 But in this moment, I'm okay, independent of anything. 354 00:40:29,243.4885 --> 00:41:03,78.4885 the recipient of your knowledge as I crowdsource, How to rest the skill you have of conversing with yourself Validating both the fear and then also really in that lovely way that all do for others yeah, I hear that and let's reality test it a little bit and let's radically accept the fact that it exists because it makes sense and let's not take it too seriously. 355 00:41:03,168.4885 --> 00:41:06,448.4885 The fact that you're doing that all in one. 356 00:41:06,838.4885 --> 00:41:14,348.4885 Conversation with yourself in order to soothe and then rest is incredibly inspiring. 357 00:41:15,542.5510001 --> 00:41:19,872.5510001 I appreciate you saying that I spent so much time, and I revert back to it. 358 00:41:20,452.5510001 --> 00:41:21,402.5510001 Trying to like. 359 00:41:21,907.5510001 --> 00:41:29,387.5510001 I need to not think racing thoughts, you know, like don't think of a white, whatever elephant, whatever the expression is, or a pink elephant maybe is what the expression is. 360 00:41:29,867.5510001 --> 00:41:38,367.5510001 I spent so much time and effort futilely trying to like, well, you can go to bed in the next 10 minutes if you just stop thinking. 361 00:41:39,127.5510001 --> 00:41:45,177.5510001 If you just stop with the racing thinking, it doesn't work to my, in my experience, it doesn't work. 362 00:41:45,757.5510001 --> 00:41:54,747.5520001 I cannot seem to really all that effectively mitigate the frequency and speed with which my internal monologue goes. 363 00:41:55,367.5520001 --> 00:42:00,497.5520001 And so somewhere, somewhere in there in the last decade plus. 364 00:42:01,357.5520001 --> 00:42:08,947.5520001 A conscious or subconscious decision was made and embraced and engaged in that was this monologue is not going anywhere. 365 00:42:09,407.5520001 --> 00:42:16,97.5510001 So let's take all the things that we know to be true about how to motivate, connect with and show compassion and empathy to other people. 366 00:42:16,457.5510001 --> 00:42:18,917.5520001 Let's infuse it into our own internal monologue. 367 00:42:19,977.5530001 --> 00:42:21,507.5520001 And it works. 368 00:42:22,258.4895 --> 00:42:32,218.4895 You're doing exactly the opposite of what a substance or overfunctioning or exercising or the giant pizza to yourself. 369 00:42:33,28.4895 --> 00:42:36,767.5520001 of those things are silencing those thoughts or trying to Oh, I lean in. 370 00:42:37,77.5520001 --> 00:42:38,87.5520001 Yeah, I lean in. 371 00:42:39,308.4895 --> 00:42:40,17.5520001 You're Cool. 372 00:42:40,28.4895 --> 00:42:40,248.4895 them. 373 00:42:41,312.5520001 --> 00:42:50,492.4520001 And I have mentors and in every facet of my life, whether they know it or not, who like more often than not, probably eight to nine times out of 10 will be like, look, I hear you. 374 00:42:50,782.4520001 --> 00:42:52,252.4520001 And that sounds really challenging. 375 00:42:52,632.4520001 --> 00:42:58,832.4510001 What the fuck are you going to do about it? And, it's great because either it's like, jeez, I don't think I can do anything about it. 376 00:42:58,972.4510001 --> 00:43:00,602.4510001 Cool, move on, move on. 377 00:43:02,112.4510001 --> 00:43:05,542.4510001 And you won't, and you'll pick it back up tomorrow, but then I'll ask you the same question. 378 00:43:05,652.4500001 --> 00:43:07,772.4510001 Maybe tomorrow you can do something about it. 379 00:43:08,292.4510001 --> 00:43:11,72.4500001 And if not, lean in, because that's what you got. 380 00:43:11,82.4500001 --> 00:43:12,542.4500001 That's the script that I have. 381 00:43:13,152.4510001 --> 00:43:22,92.4510001 It's obnoxious, and it's not necessarily fair, and it could use a lot more empathy and compassion, and I'm working on that with other things that I do for self care. 382 00:43:23,692.4510001 --> 00:43:30,762.4510001 But if that chatter's gonna be there, I'm just gonna start putting in the liner notes a lot more productive self talk in there. 383 00:43:32,533.3885 --> 00:43:37,73.3885 do you do to rest and or sleep now? I hope you sleep more than three hours a day now. 384 00:43:37,252.4510001 --> 00:43:39,252.4510001 Oh, yeah, I sleep good. 385 00:43:40,532.4510001 --> 00:43:41,212.4510001 I sleep well. 386 00:43:43,462.4510001 --> 00:44:11,292.4510001 I, what do I do to rest? I've been more selective in the circles, social circles that I surround myself in and I'm able to through a perception that they can appreciate that this is how I rest and enjoy and recharge, right? I can just sit and enjoy company and allow my presence to be a contributing factor to it as opposed to like, Oh, I need to tell this story now, or I need to because often when I do that, I end up my sarcasm comes out and I'll tell a joke. 387 00:44:11,292.4510001 --> 00:44:16,382.4510001 And the good news is, I'll then discover where some people's boundaries are more effectively than I would have otherwise. 388 00:44:16,412.4510001 --> 00:44:23,922.4510001 But it also is not the way in which I, I always want to show up in the world for myself and certainly for the, for people I care about. 389 00:44:25,852.4510001 --> 00:44:34,267.3685 So I go to those gatherings where I'm like, Okay. 390 00:44:34,332.4510001 --> 00:44:37,182.4510001 also sure I'm not spending more than an hour and a half there. 391 00:44:38,832.4510001 --> 00:44:47,52.4510001 So these days I will go, I'll go for an hour and a half and I'll find one or two people or four people to talk with for the hour and a half and it charges me up and it is restful. 392 00:44:47,52.4510001 --> 00:44:49,182.4510001 It's fulfilling, it is grounding. 393 00:44:49,612.4510001 --> 00:44:52,562.4510001 It is soothing, it is recharging. 394 00:44:53,172.4510001 --> 00:44:55,362.4510001 I have a dog and. 395 00:44:58,27.4510001 --> 00:45:10,557.4500001 I find time hiking with her or just going around and walks in the neighborhood is impressively restful and fulfilling and recharging. 396 00:45:10,727.4500001 --> 00:45:22,297.4500001 I more so than I have maybe in my ever in my life in the last three, four years really find reading pretty much anything to be. 397 00:45:24,557.4500001 --> 00:45:31,587.4500001 And I, you know, I, I don't do a good job at eliminating electronics before I go to bed, like an hour before, or keeping them out of the room. 398 00:45:31,767.4500001 --> 00:45:43,407.3515001 And I'm in a position because I founded the company that if I, you know, am up later than, I need to be as far as like what I need to get done for the next day. 399 00:45:44,7.3515001 --> 00:45:52,417.3505001 I'm able to work from home and do some self care in the morning to kind of counterbalance balance and start off with a little more of a recharge. 400 00:45:52,427.3515001 --> 00:45:58,667.3525001 Then like that constant go, my sleep is fulfilling. 401 00:45:58,797.3515001 --> 00:46:09,367.3525001 When I do turn off the phone or the electronics and close my eyes and put them on the bed, not only am I sleeping through the night I will wake up and the sheets don't move. 402 00:46:09,427.3525001 --> 00:46:10,717.3525001 Like, I don't toss and turn. 403 00:46:10,837.3525001 --> 00:46:13,387.3525001 I wake up in the exact position that I close my eyes in. 404 00:46:14,137.3525001 --> 00:46:15,427.3525001 Yeah, I meditate. 405 00:46:15,667.3525001 --> 00:46:18,697.3525001 I have a, I have an app that does guided meditations. 406 00:46:18,727.3525001 --> 00:46:22,997.3525001 I used to listen to, what was it, mindful at the Hammer. 407 00:46:23,87.3525001 --> 00:46:25,307.3525001 It was like the UCLA mindfulness program. 408 00:46:25,637.3525001 --> 00:46:32,197.3525001 They had a podcast that I think has discontinued, but Diana Winston was in charge of it, and she was just a very soothing voice. 409 00:46:33,282.3525001 --> 00:46:35,922.3525001 Presumably she still has a very soothing, soothing voice. 410 00:46:35,972.3525001 --> 00:46:37,982.3525001 She certainly did when I was introduced to the podcast. 411 00:46:38,792.3525001 --> 00:46:44,702.3515001 So I've done like a, you know, a whole variety of 10 to 15 to an hour and a half guided meditation. 412 00:46:46,542.3525001 --> 00:46:47,762.3525001 Hiking is restful. 413 00:46:48,432.3525001 --> 00:46:50,652.3525001 Exercise movement is restful. 414 00:46:51,182.3515001 --> 00:46:52,262.3525001 It's no longer sleep. 415 00:46:52,272.3515001 --> 00:46:53,602.3515001 I'm not seeking sleep. 416 00:46:54,352.3515001 --> 00:46:56,402.3515001 I'm seeking restoration. 417 00:46:57,42.3525001 --> 00:47:11,917.3525001 And I get that through watching other people succeed, through watching other people, do unfit and, and try and engage in it and navigate it without the outcomes that they want, like that perseverance, I find to be restorative to witness it. 418 00:47:14,677.3525001 --> 00:47:30,187.3525001 To be in, like, to be in this seat talking to you and not planning the dinner that I'm gonna cook when I get home, or thinking about the meeting I had with the school resource officers earlier today, like this morning and, and later tonight is not restful. 419 00:47:30,187.3525001 --> 00:47:46,187.3525001 It's not a restful place for me to be in, but I could be in the most stressful of situations in the moment, and if I'm fully engaged or as engaged as I can be in the, in the experience that I'm currently having, there's an opportunity for restoration there. 420 00:47:47,87.3525001 --> 00:47:48,57.3525001 It's a complete shift. 421 00:47:48,297.3525001 --> 00:47:51,197.3525001 I'm, I'm, you know, I'm loosely tethered to the present moment. 422 00:47:51,247.3525001 --> 00:47:59,747.3525001 I ruminate and anticipate and all the things, but I have, I have a lot of reps and pulling myself back to the present moment. 423 00:48:00,47.3525001 --> 00:48:07,727.3515001 And even if it's an 80, 20 split, that 20 ends up being exponentially more recharging than the 80 percent is bringing. 424 00:48:10,818.289 --> 00:48:16,88.289 You have taught me so much about rest in not very much time, which is amazing. 425 00:48:16,758.289 --> 00:48:53,487.3505001 I ask the same question at the end of every podcast, which is, how are you changing the world? hat metaphorically or accurately, actually accurately, like in real, in reality, I have probably three or four that I really like to rotate through, but philosophically, I am doing what I can to show up as Matt. 426 00:48:54,97.3495001 --> 00:48:56,717.3495001 There was a time and it's, and it's happened throughout. 427 00:48:57,787.3495001 --> 00:49:05,647.3495001 Most of my life, probably at least up until the last four years, maybe the last five years, where it was like, all right, I'm, I'm not in this context. 428 00:49:05,757.3495001 --> 00:49:07,127.3490001 I'm not in this context. 429 00:49:07,127.3490001 --> 00:49:08,267.3495001 I'm not in this context. 430 00:49:08,287.3495001 --> 00:49:15,137.3485001 And as a result, I don't fully show up as myself, even, even when I do have some awareness as to what that actually means. 431 00:49:16,122.3495001 --> 00:49:25,772.3495001 So I try and be all in in every situation and I think the ways in which that can ripple out. 432 00:49:26,42.3495001 --> 00:50:00,366.0830931 I mean, it ripples out, but it keeps me, it keeps me right sized, it keeps me in a spot where it's like, I'm not, I'm not going to organize a, a march on this location to, to protest or celebrate this, that or the other, but, you know, I can, I can work on and do work on how it is that I show up with individuals and small groups in, in programming and it works in a way that we're to change anything. 433 00:50:00,798.033221 --> 00:50:05,879.8564768 over landscape of community integrated mental health, but 6 to here. 434 00:50:05,879.8564768 --> 00:50:19,666.0840931 Here's 8 to 10 adolescents at a time the difference between a cognitive training and modeling certain behaviors and including taking accountability when I don't model those behaviors. 435 00:50:19,804.8704303 --> 00:50:27,710.8561862 In I have created with assistance and support from a really good team and organization that 6 to 8 to 10. 436 00:50:27,776.7936861 --> 00:50:27,896.7936861 Okay. 437 00:50:27,896.8936861 --> 00:50:39,589.2936861 Hmm. 438 00:50:39,589.2936861 --> 00:50:51,281.6936861 Hmm. 439 00:50:52,355.8561862 --> 00:51:07,311.7936861 four to six staff members who can each be a part of supporting, you know, anywhere from, Kids over the course of a week who then can bring that shit home to their parents or their siblings and who knows where they go like Yeah. 440 00:51:07,515.8561862 --> 00:51:08,685.8551862 ripples are a hell of a thing. 441 00:51:10,341.7936861 --> 00:51:25,141.7936861 Well, I would argue that you are changing the landscape of community mental health care, and that's part of what's so inspiring about what you're doing that you're rested and you have more energy, even even the parts that are a work in progress. 442 00:51:25,731.7926861 --> 00:51:28,401.7936861 Thank you for teaching me all about this. 443 00:51:28,941.7936861 --> 00:51:35,678.8651147 Where can people find you? I'll throw it in the show notes, but Instagram, what's the best place for people Oh by https: otter. 444 00:51:35,678.8651147 --> 00:51:43,125.8561862 ai I Yeah, our social media handles we're only on Facebook and Instagram and it's pivot. 445 00:51:43,765.8561862 --> 00:51:45,925.8561862 wnc, all one word. 446 00:51:46,925.8561862 --> 00:51:47,275.8561862 Yeah. 447 00:51:47,446.7936861 --> 00:52:00,816.7936861 those of you listening who are endlessly impressed by Matt at this point, as you should be it is a registered 501c3 that can always receive all sorts of donations in a tax incentivized fashion. 448 00:52:00,836.7936861 --> 00:52:03,346.7936861 So always a plug for that. 449 00:52:03,376.7936861 --> 00:52:04,96.7936861 Thank you, Matt. 450 00:52:04,136.7936861 --> 00:52:06,466.7936861 I really appreciate all the wisdom you've shared today. 451 00:52:07,405.8561862 --> 00:52:09,825.8561862 I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you, Alex, anytime. 452 00:52:22,985.7936861 --> 00:52:23,795.7936861 Thanks for listening. 453 00:52:23,975.7936861 --> 00:52:30,365.7936861 If you enjoyed this episode, please remember to like and subscribe, and if you know someone who might find value in what you've heard, please share.