September 4, 2025 • 31 mins
Jack Nowell’s journey from the Cornish coast to the international rugby stage is packed with surprises, challenges, and lessons every young player can learn from. In this episode, Arthur sits down with the England and British & Irish Lions star to uncover the real stories behind his career.
From an unexpected switch in sports to becoming one of the game’s most recognisable wingers, Jack shares how belief, adaptability, and hard work shaped his success. You’ll hear about the coaches who inspired him, the teammates who pushed him, and the pivotal moments that changed the course of his career.
We explore the highs of Lions tours, the lows of brutal injuries, and the truth about life as a pro rugby player. Jack also opens up about his family-first mindset, the importance of preparation, and what young players really need to know to make it to the top.
This episode is part inspiration, part reality check – and it’s packed with advice and stories you won’t hear anywhere else.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Arthur (00:03):
Hi everyone.
I'm Arthur Dickins and it's myRugby Legends podcast.
In each episode, interview anamazing rugby player or coach to
get the insight and advice youngfor young rugby players just
like me who are keen to learnand get better.
In this episode, I'm speakingwith Jack Nowell, Exeter, La
Rochelle and England Lion'sWinger.
(00:25):
Jack won two Premiership titlesand a European Cup at Exeter.
He has been capped by England 46times and winning the Grand Slam
in 2016.
Jack also played in two testsfor Lions in New Zealand in
2017.
Jack currently plays in hisrugby in La Rochelle, in France.
(00:45):
Under head Coach Ronan O'Gara.
I hope find Jack's knowledge andwisdom as helpful as I did.
Enjoy.
So Jack, what other sports didyou play growing up and at what
age did you give him up forrugby?
Jack (01:03):
probably a lot of kids growing up.
I tried, every sport.
I think probably my main oneswere, I think my main other
sport was swimming.
I used to swim quite a lot as akid.
I used to swim for my swimmingclub back home.
did a few competitions andstuff, and I think, I got to
about 16, where I had to makethe decision where I go, push on
(01:28):
with my swimming and, take thata bit more seriously, or, do the
same with rugby.
but I'd say rugby and swimmingwith my main two.
I tried to do everything.
Football, cricket, football.
Yeah.
I tried football.
I wish I was good at football.
but I wasn't the best.
yeah, obviously, by 16 I Istarted to do, rugby a bit more
(01:50):
Seriously.
Arthur (01:51):
Do you support football team?
Jack (01:53):
I'm a bit of a bit of a fake football, supporter.
I think whoever has the nicestshirt out that season, I'd
probably support that team.
I think Arsenal winning at themoment.
Shirts pretty, cool at theminute.
Arthur (02:04):
What made you choose rugby over these other sports?
Jack (02:08):
I think for me, I felt swimming was very individual.
obviously you did a little bitof team stuff with your relays
and things like that, and youtraveled as a squad, once you're
in that pool, you are very much,by yourself.
So I was always, attracted tothe, team sport and I certainly
(02:31):
found that a lot more enjoyable.
obviously being with rugby, it'sthe, it is the ultimate team
sport, isn't it?
And you are, with 14 other guyson that field and, and then
training you with the boys andthey become your best friends
and, so I was naturally drawnto, to rugby a lot more, a lot,
more.
Arthur (02:47):
When did you know that you are going to make it as a
professional?
Jack (02:51):
Oh, I dunno.
That's a tough question.
That one.
for me growing up, I neverthought it would happen to me.
you see all these, you look atall these, tv, all these rugby
stars on TV and things likethat.
And you think, no way that'sgonna happen to me.
I'm from Penzance in Cornwall,which is the, bottom of England.
And so for me growing up it wasalways just playing for fun and
(03:13):
just playing with my mates.
And, at 16-17 I went to TroyCollege.
and for me I was quite lucky itworked out with good timing.
'cause Exeter Chiefs obviouslygot promoted to the premiership,
when I was 17.
So I was in my second year ofcollege.
And Troy College was part of theExeter Academy at the time.
And they said to me then, if youhave a good couple of seasons,
(03:36):
potentially there could be acontract at the end of it for
you.
And even then I was a bit like,I might, I'll be lucky to maybe
get one year, maybe two years atthis team.
I'd probably never, ever playfor them.
I'll just see how it goes fortwo years and then we'll go from
there.
So yeah, probably about 17, 18when, I got to the end of my
college, life and, then, I hada, good chat with, Exeter Chiefs
(03:59):
and Rob Baxter and they offeredme a three year deal.
even when I signed it, mate, tobe perfectly honest with you, I
thought, there's still no wayI'm gonna, I'm gonna make this,
I'm gonna do everything I can doto make it.
there's so many good players outthere.
And I'm only 16.
I'm only, 17, 18.
And.
You, there's no way I'm gonna beable to play for, this great
team.
And yeah.
(04:20):
So it probably wasn't even intomy second contract when I, my
second year of my contract whereI got, my first team, debut,
against London Irish.
and then I was a bit like, ohGod, here we go.
This is, getting exciting now.
Arthur (04:35):
And as you said, you had your first team debut.
How did that feel?
Jack (04:39):
I think, growing up as a kid, and like I said, then
you've seen all these,professional rugby players on
the TV playing for England, andthen you're playing against
London Irish.
And I think at the time therewas a couple of, international
players playing for London,Irish.
And again, even at that stage Iwas a bit like, I'm 18 years
old.
I, out my, there's so manyquestions that go through your
head.
Are you good enough or are youout of your depth?
(05:01):
Are you, are you, should you behere?
Do you deserve to be here?
And so obviously there's a lotof nerves.
But at the same time, I thinkfor me, the, kind of excitement
took over once, once I got tothe match day.
And for me it was a game that, Icertainly will never forget.
Arthur (05:15):
Thank you.
When did you know that wingerwas your position and was this
your decision or did it comefrom a coach?
Jack (05:24):
it came from a coach.
It wasn't actually my, decisionmate.
So I was, I was always afullback, growing up as soon as
I got into men's rugby.
I started men's rugby when I was16, and I always played
fullback.
I never played on the wingbefore.
and then at the time when,obviously I was the Exeter
Chiefs, we had a, pretty goodFullback at the time who was,
(05:45):
one of our, one of our bestplayers on the field.
He was one of our leaders.
and, AHefer,th, our coach at,the time then said to me, we
want you both on the field atthe same time.
How would you feel if you.
if we put you on the wing, we'llput you, we'll give you the
number.
14 jersey and, yeah, likeobviously the nerves were there,
but, at that stage of my career,I was just so thankful to be
(06:06):
given this opportunity to, playin the first team for Exeter
Chiefs.
for me, they could have put mein the, back row and I could
have been wearing number seven.
I didn't mind, as long as I wason that field and I was, I was
playing with the team, I wasmore than happy and, if it
wasn't for that move of hi ofhim.
'cause obviously I spoke to himquite a lot before the game
thing put me in the wing and he.
(06:26):
He believed I could do it.
He believed that I could, makethat position mine.
and obviously all these yearslater, I look back at that and
think, if I wasn't put on thewing at that stage, I probably
wouldn't have made it to, towhere I am now.
Arthur (06:39):
What do you love so much about Winger?
Jack (06:42):
I think for me, I, very old school, traditional wingers,
very much a very fast.
stay on your wing, you scoresome good tries in the, corners
and things like that.
for me, my coach at the timesaid to me, you're not, gonna be
one of those wingers.
You're not, you're not one ofthe fastest, I back you to be
(07:03):
one of the strongest I back youto work harder than anybody
else.
And, I made that position, myown, I felt he never, he told
me, I don't want you on thewing.
I want you to come off whereveryou wanna go.
You can play around the scrumhalf, play around the fly, half,
get your hands on the ball, withthe forwards.
just'cause you've got number 14on your back doesn't mean I want
(07:23):
you to stay on your wing.
to be able to give him thatlicense to, to roam the field
and do what I want to do and getmy hands on the ball as many
times as possible, it was, it,certainly, relieved me a little
bit of that pressure.
yeah, I think, I think I've, I,really enjoyed playing in that
position.
Arthur (07:40):
Thank you, and as you said, you score loads of good
tries on the wing, I waswatching, I tried to mate, I
tried to, a couple videos.
I was watching this videoagainst Sale sharks where
somebody grubbered it and thenyou ran and it was a close try
corner and you touched it downand dived.
Jack (08:00):
they're always, they're always the nice ones when
someone else does the work foryou and you are just, lucky
enough to dot the ball down overthe line.
Arthur (08:09):
Exactly which players inspired you growing up and what
was inspiring about them?
Jack (08:15):
do you know what I, I'll be honest, I didn't watch a lot
of rugby when I was growing up.
I wasn't one of those, I wasn'ta super fan of rugby.
I enjoyed watching it now andagain, I didn't really watch a
lot of, international games oranything just because, where we
lived in Cornwall, it was verymuch, local rugby and, I
(08:36):
remember going to watch theCornish pirates down at the
local rugby field and thingslike that and some of the senior
games, but that wasn't obviouslythe top level.
for me growing up, I didn'tactually watch quite a lot of
rugby.
But, some of my first memorieswould be.
watching someone like JasonRobinson, and seeing what he can
do on the field and that feelingof when he got the ball, you
(08:58):
knew he was gonna do something,you knew he was gonna do
something special.
obviously I'm a very differentplayer to, to Jason Robinson,
but, that excitement, I wannatry and bring that across when
people are watching me that, Ican create something for the
team.
I can do something that peopleare gonna wanna watch.
so yeah, someone like JasonRobinson again as a winger, I
used to like watching someonelike Sebastian Chabal.
(09:20):
You might not know who he is, heplayed for France, he played for
Sale sharks, and again, he wasthe other side of the ball.
he's, his attack was good, buthis defense was what I really
liked watching, he used to smashpeople.
and when you get that big hitand you have that feeling of
your teammate having a big hit,it certainly brings the energy
as well.
(09:42):
those sort of people that.
Bring the energy in the gameand, create stuff like that is
these people that I used to likewatching.
Arthur (09:48):
How did you manage your nerves before big game?
Jack (09:52):
I think I learned very quickly the fact that I know
there was no point wastingenergy on, on, on nervous for
the game.
There's no need to be nervous,Everyone has a bad game now and
again, nobody's perfect.
And, and I think, as soon as youstart worrying about what might
happen, you then startconcentrating on what you can
actually do in the game.
'cause there's no point worryingabout something that hasn't even
(10:12):
happened yet.
So there's no point beingnervous on something in the game
where you, oh, I might make amistake, I might do something
wrong.
I learned quite quickly when Iwas younger to try and flip that
because, I remember when I wasyounger, my first few games
being very nervous, and then bythe time the game came I was,
quite tired and, mentally tired.
and then I would finish the gameand I would play well and I
(10:32):
would be like, oh, there was nopoint worrying about things in
the game that might havehappened'cause they haven't
happened.
I've played pretty well that Ishould be happy with myself.
so for me, I've always tried tostay positive and always try and
remember that.
I'm a good rugby player.
I do good things on the fieldand I try and focus on those
sort of things opposed tomistakes.
And, like I said, everyone makesa mistake.
(10:53):
No one's perfect in a game,which taught me to, when I do
make my mistakes in a game, Imove on quite quickly and I try
and do something positive, quitequickly after.
Arthur (11:03):
It is very helpful.
What is the best piece of advicea coaches gave you?
Jack (11:08):
Best piece of advice?
probably a bit cliche, probably.
You've probably had this a lot,but, have fun.
Make sure you're having fun.
if you're not having fun,there's no point doing it.
even now when I'm in these biggames and I'm, playing against
some of the best players in theworld, the reason why I started
rugby was'cause I was playingwith my best mates.
I was having fun with them.
(11:29):
it certainly doesn't feel like ajob for me even now.
so yeah, if you're not havingfun, there's no point doing it.
And, I was very lucky that, Iwasn't pushed when I was
younger.
I just, naturally enjoyed it.
yeah, I'm, always having funwhen I'm on the field and I'm
always smiling.
Even when you're losing, you'restill very lucky I still feel
very lucky to be out there, and,still a chance to, give, to
(11:53):
bring the game back and win.
another good bit of advice Ilearned was become very good
friends with your fly half andscrum half, because they're the
guys that are gonna give you theball.
So make sure you know those twoinside out,
Arthur (12:06):
fly half.
Perfect.
Jack (12:08):
There you go.
we'll be best mates, then.
Arthur (12:11):
Jack, you played in a very, successful Exeter team.
Also a grand Slam winningEngland team.
What makes a great team?
Jack (12:20):
Oh, the, I've never been asked that question before.
That's a good question.
what makes a good team?
I think off the field.
Off the field, relationships arevery important.
I believe that if you, becomevery good friends off the field,
you are certainly willing towork extra harder for your
teammates.
you are willing to puteverything on the line to, to,
(12:42):
win that game.
Whether that's a, trial like wespoke about, whether that's a
try saving tackle in the corner,you are willing to, give that
little bit more to make surethat you're doing everything you
can do to win for that team.
I think for me, certainly atExeter, I'm, I grew up with a
lot of those players and, I, forexample, Luke Cowan-Dickie, me
(13:04):
and Luke Cowan-Dickie haveplayed together since we were
five.
the year we left Exeter was the,same year.
So that was the year we, stoppedplaying with each other, but
that was from five years old to29 years old.
it's a long time.
So he knows me very well.
I know him very well.
And when you are, when you'rewinning together and you're
lifting trophies, everythingbecomes worth it.
And you look across and you'vegot your best mates there, and
(13:25):
you're doing, and you'veachieved these things with those
boys.
yeah, there's honestly no betterfeeling than that.
So I think, relationships offthe field and it's not, they're
not hard, that they're not, easyto build.
Sorry.
You've got to, you've got a,you've got a work of that.
a lot of people think, when youget signed for a club and if
you're lucky enough to be signedby Exeter Chiefs, you feel
straight in and then you startplaying really well.
(13:48):
It's, quite hard.
You, need to build thoserelationships off the field
quite quickly.
And, I've learned that moving toLa Rochelle a couple of years
ago, not knowing anybody thatplayed here, But now even, being
here for two, two and a bityears, I feel like some of these
boys are my best friends now.
rugby's a, is a brilliant gamewhere you can fit straight in
(14:09):
and you can, you have somethingin common straight away.
You have the, a common goal thatyou want to achieve together.
So yeah, I think it's brilliant.
Arthur (14:15):
How did you do that?
Jack (14:17):
I think it's very much, the coach is a, big part of
that.
You need to make, time in your,week, for boys to gel, for boys
to get together.
for me, I'm a very sociableperson as well, so I like
getting out.
I've got a family, I've gotthree kids, my wife, coming
here, the boys made me feel verywelcome.
(14:39):
getting our kids together,getting the wives together.
you, feel you've become part ofthe team quite quickly and,
Ronan O'Gara is our, isobviously our head coach and,
he, is very family driven and,he, I never forget, the first
thing he said to me when I camehere was, if your wife and your
kids aren't settled, I don'twant to see you in the club.
(15:00):
I only want you to come into theclub when your family is settled
'cause he knows how important,family and friends are for me
that's very much something thatI want to give and, drive for as
well.
'cause for me, family's veryimportant.
Arthur (15:13):
So Jack, what do you think Makes you successful?
Jack (15:17):
Very much from a hardworking background, I think,
my, my dad's a fisherman, they,that's an extremely hard job for
them.
probably a bit too hard for me.
but, I dunno, I think I was,brought up, to, be with this
hardworking family.
I was brought up to, respect myfriends, my family, And, growing
(15:42):
up and seeing, being with my dadand things like that, he'd done
absolutely everything for thathe could do to make our lives,
as comfortable.
me and my two other brothers andmy sister, for our lives to be
as comfortable as possible.
And, sometimes that sacrificewas him being away at sea for a
lot of times and, not seeing hima lot growing up.
But, I under, I understand nowthat I'm older and I have my own
(16:05):
family that, they're allsacrifices.
You got, you've got to make to.
To, be able to have your family,safe and, and, ready for,
anything.
I think now I've got my ownfamily.
it's certainly changed mymentality a lot about why I play
and why I, turn up the trainingevery day and why I put my body
(16:26):
on the line every weekendbecause, at the start, and for
me, it still hasn't changed.
I play for fun.
I play to be with my mates.
it's certainly, one of the bestfeelings in the world, but.
at the same time now afterhaving kids, I'm, doing things
where I need to make their livesas comfortable as possible.
And, sometimes I do sit back andhave a look and, we're living in
France, we're, in with beautifulweather, my kids are, fluent
(16:50):
French now, which is, awesometo, to see and to be able to see
them speak it.
'cause they're a lot better atthe language than I am.
and they're all the perks of whyyou do this and why you do that
every weekend.
'cause there are a few dark bitsin rugby that, you need to get
through, injuries, losses, forme in my career, injuries has
(17:11):
been, up there a lot.
the amount of, niggles andinjuries I've, picked up.
But, it makes it all worth it atthe end when you see your kids
smiling and your kids thriving.
So yeah, it's, for me it's,family's the most important
thing.
Arthur (17:25):
thank you.
And as you said, your dad was afisherman.
Do you fish a lot?
Jack (17:31):
I'm a fake fisherman mate.
I, when I was younger, I used togo out at my rod and my reel.
but that's probably about as faras I go because, I remember
growing up and seeing some ofthe videos on my dad's phone of
them being out in sea in stormsand horrible weather, freezing
cold and that's, luckily for me,I've, always had rugby to get my
(17:53):
teeth into.
if it wasn't for rugby, maybeI'd be out there fishing as
well.
But yeah, I've never,experienced a, trip outta sea
yet.
Arthur (18:02):
Have you, caught any, big fish with your rod?
Jack (18:06):
Not, any.
I'm proud of to be honest.
the, fish, the fishing things Icatch at the moment is when I go
crabbing down at the rock poolswith my, two girls and my son.
that's as far as I go forfishing at the minute.
Arthur (18:18):
Thank you.
To any young and aspiringwingers out there, what's one
piece of advice you would givethem?
Jack (18:25):
Oh, good question.
I think a lot like we spokeabout, I think.
Remember why you started playingrugby.
that you are obviously enjoyingit.
It's why you're doing it.
so don't forget that, as long asyou're out on the field enjoying
it, it doesn't matter what levelyou're at.
because at the end of the day,it's fun.
(18:46):
It's fun what you're doing.
If you're having fun, you'remore likely to play well.
so yeah, that side of it'sbrilliant that I think,'cause
again, like I said, for me, I'mdoing it as a job, but I don't
feel it as a job.
I'm still having fun with mybest mates and.
I look back at when I was, yourage and when I was younger, and,
for me that was some of the besttimes of, playing rugby, going
(19:07):
away on, on club trips with yourbest mates, going away on school
trips with your, school friendsand playing all these different
teams at rugby.
it's, brilliant.
So I think, yeah, like I said,as long as you're having fun,
you've got a smile on your face,you are, you're gonna achieve
some good things.
Arthur (19:22):
Which other position in the team do you rely on the
most?
Jack (19:26):
Oof, probably a bit, like I mentioned before, for me,
scrum half, fly half, are veryimportant.
and like I said, I'm not, aplayer that, that likes to stay
on my wing a lot.
So I do like to come around thescrum half and around the fly
half and see if I can get myhands on the ball as much as
possible.
'cause the, scrum half'sobviously the big link between
the forwards and the backs.
(19:49):
I think you've gotta have areally good.
relationship with your Fullbackand your other winger.
'cause they're the guys whenyou're out there, they're gonna
help you a lot.
And a lot of the times myFullback that I'm playing with
makes me look good.
yeah, I think for me, scrumhalf, fly half, and, your
fullback are, important guysthat you need to be on the field
with.
Arthur (20:08):
What was the facet of rugby, which was your particular
strength growing up?
Jack (20:13):
think that's always the, that's always the main thing
when you're playing rugby, isn'tit?
Yeah, I've gone through manydifferent strategies of not
being able to get tackled.
I used to catch the ball on oneside of the field, run around my
whole team behind them, and thentry and run up the other wing,
until I used to get told off bymy coach.
'cause he said, you can't dothat forever, Jack.
you need to try start runningforward.
(20:35):
but I think for me it'sprobably, that's led on to then
the way I play rugby now.
I think it's, your footwork andyour, being able to step players
and especially when you're goingagainst some of those bigger
boys on the field, some of thoseforwards, those big hairy
forwards, you need to, I don'twanna be squashed by them.
yeah, my footwork before that,trying to step them, and make
some of the bigger boys looksilly.
(20:58):
and then probably one of my mainthings is, my strength after I
have been tackled, or I've beenhalf tackled, to be able to,
bust through those, tackles andtry and make a, a few more
meters for the team.
Arthur (21:09):
As you talked about stepping people, what was your
favorite step?
Jack (21:14):
I had a good one last season where one of the we were
playing against Perpignan and, abig scary Fijian came flying out
the line.
And I was lucky enough to stepin and get around the outside of
him and I went down the wing.
but maybe one of my favoritesteps has been, probably for my
try in against the wasps in the2000, I think it was 16 final.
(21:36):
where Luke Cowan-Dickie gave methe ball on the inside and I had
a little step round the winger,and then got into the corner and
scored our first try.
So yeah, probably, that one.
Arthur (21:46):
Thank you.
Jack.
Who's the best player you'veplayed with or against?
Jack (21:51):
I feel I've been very lucky to play with and against
some, some amazing players.
I think.
certainly this year I would saysomeone like Will Skelton, I'm
sure everyone's seen what he's,what he did in the, in, in the
tests against the Lions.
but he's a brilliant player toplay with.
(22:11):
he and a horrible player to playagainst as, we've all seen.
But yeah, he's, obviously so bigand so strong, but.
Again, his skills are very good.
He, takes about four or fivedefenders to stop him.
So it make, gives us a lot, moreroom on the edge.
Manu Tuilagi at the same time, Ireally like playing with Manu
Tuilagi again'cause he's strong.
Makes things happen very hard totackle.
(22:33):
But yeah, probably, I'veobviously played against Manu, a
few times as well, so I'd sayyeah, Manu's probably one of the
hard people to, play against'cause I do not tackling him.
Arthur (22:43):
What is the best thing about being a professional rugby
player?
Jack (22:47):
To be honest, mate, I still don't look at myself as a
professional rugby player.
obviously it's my job and it,pays the bills and things like
that.
But, I, really don't look at itas that.
I get to, go Monday to Fridayinto a, rugby environment where,
we have, one of the best gyms,we have some of the best rugby
(23:09):
fields, some of the best coachesin the world, and, I get to play
rugby, I get to learn every dayfrom these other people.
I get to.
Go in the gym and stay in shape.
And then obviously the ultimateside to it is that Saturday,
Sunday, when you come to MatchDay and I get to play in front
of, 18,000, 18,000 people at theStade Deflandre here in, in
(23:30):
France.
And it's surreal.
Sometimes you look around andyou think, I'm getting paid for
this.
for me, I, don't look at it asthat.
I still look at it as the, aswhen I was five years old when I
started that I'm playing with mybest friends, I'm having fun.
and at the end of the day I'mchucking a rugby ball around the
field.
and it's as simple as that.
(23:51):
So that's the way I still lookat it now.
Arthur (23:53):
What is the worst thing about being a professional rugby
player?
Jack (23:56):
I think for me it's probably been, spending time
away from the family's tough, Ithink.
the Lions tour I went to, whichI was lucky enough to be
selected for against NewZealand.
you're away for nine weeks, sixnations, you're away for seven
weeks.
but at the same time, at thesame time you're representing
your country and things likethat.
(24:16):
So again, that's about thesacrifices that, that I
mentioned at the start.
I think probably the main, theworst thing for me has probably
been my injuries and stuff thatI've gone through for my career.
touch wood, I'm still good now.
I'm still going, but I've had,11 operations now.
so I've had a, a fair few ofoperation, operations.
(24:37):
luckily I've come back frommore, I'm, in good shape still.
I'm still able to play, there'sa lot of people out there that
aren't as lucky as what positionI'm in at the minute.
but yeah, probably mentallytrying to get through those
injuries and coming, trying toget back fitter and better
again.
And, when you pick up anotherinjury again, it seems tough at
the time, but you're alwaysgonna get through it and you're
(24:58):
always gonna be okay at the endof it.
So that's what I've learned.
Yeah, for me, probably the, fairfew injuries that I've had so
far.
Arthur (25:04):
As you talked about the Lions Tour, what was your
favorite game you played on theLions Tour?
Jack (25:09):
playing in that second test was, big, getting my cap
and things like that.
I think, for me it was playingagainst the Chiefs in the last
midweek game, I think.
Because, everything went ourway.
I was lucky enough to score twotrys.
but we as a team played really,well.
And, we were always winning thatgame.
So it was a very enjoyable gameto be, part of.
Arthur (25:33):
And did you watch the Lions tour?
This, this, this year?
Jack (25:37):
I did watch it.
It was, it was very exciting.
I thought.
the way Lions started was,brilliant.
But I think, Australia havesome, brilliant players and they
were certainly the underdogsgoing into this and you see the
way they fought in the secondtest, it was awesome to see the
lions win it and the secondtest, but I think, if Australia,
(25:57):
just snuck it at the end, Ithink that third test would've
been even more exciting for bothteams.
So yeah, I did, watch it.
I thought it was brilliant.
Did you enjoy it?
Arthur (26:05):
Yeah, I loved it as well.
Who do you think it should havebeen?
Three nil.
Jack (26:08):
I think the results were justified to be honest.
I would've loved to have it tobe three nil.
there's no better than, giventhe Aussies a whitewash.
But I think, a bit more so nowof being sitting back and being
a bit more of a neutral and justenjoying rugby for what it is.
I think it, it made it to bevery exciting.
I think Australia, deserved towin at the end of it, especially
(26:29):
the way they played in thatsecond test.
And, even more so the way theyplayed in the third test.
Yeah, I think a two one win forthe Lions was, just a
Arthur (26:37):
And who would've got your player of the tournament?
Jack (26:39):
yeah, I think Tom Curry would've got my, my, my player
Arthur (26:42):
why?
Jack (26:45):
I, obviously have, I've been lucky enough to play with
Tom Curry.
I know how good he is a player.
As a player.
I know how professional he is.
And yeah, honestly, playingwith, someone like Tom Curry, he
makes your job very, easy on thefield.
'cause he does a lot of the hardwork that a lot of people don't
see.
and he's horrible to playagainst, he's so strong over the
(27:06):
ball and he's gonna turn it overand things like that.
So he's a, player that youalways need to be aware of.
yeah, I think, yeah.
Tom Curry.
Arthur (27:13):
Thank you.
How have you found moving toFrance and playing rugby in the
top 14?
Jack (27:19):
I've really, enjoyed it.
I think, for me it's somethingI've always wanted to do.
I'd love to have, I've stayedwith Exeter, my whole career.
But, unfortunately things don'talways work out the way you want
it to do.
And, for me, I've was very keento get my family, this is not
the rugby side of, it's the lifeside of it.
I'd like to get my familyexperience different things,
(27:40):
experience different cultures,yeah, I think, yeah, moving to
France is, has been brilliantfor my family.
I think rugby wise, I believe atthe moment that the top 14 is
probably the best competition inthe world to do with rugby.
no, I certainly believe thatwe've got some of the best
players over here playing in theworld at the minute in this
competition.
every single weekend's a bigtest.
(28:02):
you go from one week againstplaying against Toulon, to the
next week playing Toulouse,where you've got someone like,
DuPont, who's probably the bestplayer in the world at the
minute.
you've, it's a challenge.
It has been a challenge.
it probably took me a good fewmonths to be settled and to find
my way a little bit.
but again, like I said, like theteam made me feel very welcome.
(28:24):
Coming over here.
The team are very ambitious.
We want to win things, which iscertainly why I wanted to come
over as well.
'cause, I'm desperate to win thetop 14 and, hopefully get
another trophy under my belt.
Yeah, I think it's been reallygood and it's been successful so
far, and hopefully this seasonwe can actually win a few
trophies.
Arthur (28:42):
Have you been learning a bit more French?
Jack (28:45):
I've been really trying mate, honestly.
and it's so disappointing to,dis yeah, disappointed, but also
a sense of pride that I try anduse some of my French, speaking
to my daughter and my eldestdaughter Nori, who's seven.
And she corrects the way Ipronounce the words and the way
I send, she goes, oh, daddy knowyou need to say it like this.
(29:06):
And I'm like, Ugh.
I, look at her and I'm like, I'mvery proud of you.
But at the same time, I'm, veryjealous of how easy and how well
you've picked up being able tospeak French and, yeah.
I'm trying to learn, but it's, avery hard language to, to learn.
Arthur (29:24):
And What are you most proud of in your rugby career to
date?
Jack (29:29):
I think, yeah, being able to come home every day and see
my kids smiling.
I love that the fact that myfamily fly over from, England to
come and watch me play at ourstadium and the, atmosphere that
they're being able to,experience and be part of.
And, after you've won a biggame, you get to go see them in
(29:49):
the stands after and you seethem all smiling and yeah, my
old man with a pint in his handand he's all happy that, we've
won the game.
yeah, I think, for me it's just,yeah, being able to see my
family happy and like I said,like the, trophies and winning
the games and winning bigcompetitions is important to me,
'cause at the end of the day, Iwant to win these trophies with
(30:11):
my mates, but at the same time,I think, yeah, as long as my
family happy, I'm gonna be givena lot more.
And, I'm also fully aware that,if it isn't for my teammates, if
it wasn't for my teammates atExeter that, that we spoke about
before, the boys that I'veplayed with since I was five
years old.
I, wouldn't have gone on to playfor England.
I wouldn't have gone on to playfor the lions.
(30:33):
'cause at the end of the day,they're the boys that, make you
look good and they're the boysthat you play with every single
week.
And if I'm looking good it's'cause we're winning and we're
playing well and those boys arebeing good.
And, that leads on to the, themplaying for England.
'cause the England coacheslooking at you, and then going
onto the lions is because thelion selectors are looking at
you playing for your country.
(30:53):
so yeah, I think I'm very proudof my family and I'm very proud
of, my mates that I, startedwith.
Arthur (30:58):
Thank you.
And I wanna say thanks so muchfor being a podcast.
I really appreciate you takingyour time.
Jack (31:04):
You are very welcome mate.
I've, I've obviously followedyour podcast since speaking with
you and, yeah, I like your work,mate.
You've had some good guests onit's, you are, you're very good
at what you do, mate.
I feel very privileged To, to,be asked of you on your podcast,
mate.
So thank you very much.
Hi everyone.
I'm Arthur Dickins and it's myRugby Legends podcast.
In each episode, interview anamazing rugby player or coach to
get the insight and advice youngfor young rugby players just
like me who are keen to learnand get better.
In this episode, I'm speakingwith Jack Nowell, Exeter, La
Rochelle and England Lion'sWinger.
(00:25):
Jack won two Premiership titlesand a European Cup at Exeter.
He has been capped by England 46times and winning the Grand Slam
in 2016.
Jack also played in two testsfor Lions in New Zealand in
2017.
Jack currently plays in hisrugby in La Rochelle, in France.
(00:45):
Under head Coach Ronan O'Gara.
I hope find Jack's knowledge andwisdom as helpful as I did.
Enjoy.
So Jack, what other sports didyou play growing up and at what
age did you give him up forrugby?
Jack (01:03):
probably a lot of kids growing up.
I tried, every sport.
I think probably my main oneswere, I think my main other
sport was swimming.
I used to swim quite a lot as akid.
I used to swim for my swimmingclub back home.
did a few competitions andstuff, and I think, I got to
about 16, where I had to makethe decision where I go, push on
(01:28):
with my swimming and, take thata bit more seriously, or, do the
same with rugby.
but I'd say rugby and swimmingwith my main two.
I tried to do everything.
Football, cricket, football.
Yeah.
I tried football.
I wish I was good at football.
but I wasn't the best.
yeah, obviously, by 16 I Istarted to do, rugby a bit more
(01:50):
Seriously.
Arthur (01:51):
Do you support football team?
Jack (01:53):
I'm a bit of a bit of a fake football, supporter.
I think whoever has the nicestshirt out that season, I'd
probably support that team.
I think Arsenal winning at themoment.
Shirts pretty, cool at theminute.
Arthur (02:04):
What made you choose rugby over these other sports?
Jack (02:08):
I think for me, I felt swimming was very individual.
obviously you did a little bitof team stuff with your relays
and things like that, and youtraveled as a squad, once you're
in that pool, you are very much,by yourself.
So I was always, attracted tothe, team sport and I certainly
(02:31):
found that a lot more enjoyable.
obviously being with rugby, it'sthe, it is the ultimate team
sport, isn't it?
And you are, with 14 other guyson that field and, and then
training you with the boys andthey become your best friends
and, so I was naturally drawnto, to rugby a lot more, a lot,
more.
Arthur (02:47):
When did you know that you are going to make it as a
professional?
Jack (02:51):
Oh, I dunno.
That's a tough question.
That one.
for me growing up, I neverthought it would happen to me.
you see all these, you look atall these, tv, all these rugby
stars on TV and things likethat.
And you think, no way that'sgonna happen to me.
I'm from Penzance in Cornwall,which is the, bottom of England.
And so for me growing up it wasalways just playing for fun and
(03:13):
just playing with my mates.
And, at 16-17 I went to TroyCollege.
and for me I was quite lucky itworked out with good timing.
'cause Exeter Chiefs obviouslygot promoted to the premiership,
when I was 17.
So I was in my second year ofcollege.
And Troy College was part of theExeter Academy at the time.
And they said to me then, if youhave a good couple of seasons,
(03:36):
potentially there could be acontract at the end of it for
you.
And even then I was a bit like,I might, I'll be lucky to maybe
get one year, maybe two years atthis team.
I'd probably never, ever playfor them.
I'll just see how it goes fortwo years and then we'll go from
there.
So yeah, probably about 17, 18when, I got to the end of my
college, life and, then, I hada, good chat with, Exeter Chiefs
(03:59):
and Rob Baxter and they offeredme a three year deal.
even when I signed it, mate, tobe perfectly honest with you, I
thought, there's still no wayI'm gonna, I'm gonna make this,
I'm gonna do everything I can doto make it.
there's so many good players outthere.
And I'm only 16.
I'm only, 17, 18.
And.
You, there's no way I'm gonna beable to play for, this great
team.
And yeah.
(04:20):
So it probably wasn't even intomy second contract when I, my
second year of my contract whereI got, my first team, debut,
against London Irish.
and then I was a bit like, ohGod, here we go.
This is, getting exciting now.
Arthur (04:35):
And as you said, you had your first team debut.
How did that feel?
Jack (04:39):
I think, growing up as a kid, and like I said, then
you've seen all these,professional rugby players on
the TV playing for England, andthen you're playing against
London Irish.
And I think at the time therewas a couple of, international
players playing for London,Irish.
And again, even at that stage Iwas a bit like, I'm 18 years
old.
I, out my, there's so manyquestions that go through your
head.
Are you good enough or are youout of your depth?
(05:01):
Are you, are you, should you behere?
Do you deserve to be here?
And so obviously there's a lotof nerves.
But at the same time, I thinkfor me, the, kind of excitement
took over once, once I got tothe match day.
And for me it was a game that, Icertainly will never forget.
Arthur (05:15):
Thank you.
When did you know that wingerwas your position and was this
your decision or did it comefrom a coach?
Jack (05:24):
it came from a coach.
It wasn't actually my, decisionmate.
So I was, I was always afullback, growing up as soon as
I got into men's rugby.
I started men's rugby when I was16, and I always played
fullback.
I never played on the wingbefore.
and then at the time when,obviously I was the Exeter
Chiefs, we had a, pretty goodFullback at the time who was,
(05:45):
one of our, one of our bestplayers on the field.
He was one of our leaders.
and, AHefer,th, our coach at,the time then said to me, we
want you both on the field atthe same time.
How would you feel if you.
if we put you on the wing, we'llput you, we'll give you the
number.
14 jersey and, yeah, likeobviously the nerves were there,
but, at that stage of my career,I was just so thankful to be
(06:06):
given this opportunity to, playin the first team for Exeter
Chiefs.
for me, they could have put mein the, back row and I could
have been wearing number seven.
I didn't mind, as long as I wason that field and I was, I was
playing with the team, I wasmore than happy and, if it
wasn't for that move of hi ofhim.
'cause obviously I spoke to himquite a lot before the game
thing put me in the wing and he.
(06:26):
He believed I could do it.
He believed that I could, makethat position mine.
and obviously all these yearslater, I look back at that and
think, if I wasn't put on thewing at that stage, I probably
wouldn't have made it to, towhere I am now.
Arthur (06:39):
What do you love so much about Winger?
Jack (06:42):
I think for me, I, very old school, traditional wingers,
very much a very fast.
stay on your wing, you scoresome good tries in the, corners
and things like that.
for me, my coach at the timesaid to me, you're not, gonna be
one of those wingers.
You're not, you're not one ofthe fastest, I back you to be
(07:03):
one of the strongest I back youto work harder than anybody
else.
And, I made that position, myown, I felt he never, he told
me, I don't want you on thewing.
I want you to come off whereveryou wanna go.
You can play around the scrumhalf, play around the fly, half,
get your hands on the ball, withthe forwards.
just'cause you've got number 14on your back doesn't mean I want
(07:23):
you to stay on your wing.
to be able to give him thatlicense to, to roam the field
and do what I want to do and getmy hands on the ball as many
times as possible, it was, it,certainly, relieved me a little
bit of that pressure.
yeah, I think, I think I've, I,really enjoyed playing in that
position.
Arthur (07:40):
Thank you, and as you said, you score loads of good
tries on the wing, I waswatching, I tried to mate, I
tried to, a couple videos.
I was watching this videoagainst Sale sharks where
somebody grubbered it and thenyou ran and it was a close try
corner and you touched it downand dived.
Jack (08:00):
they're always, they're always the nice ones when
someone else does the work foryou and you are just, lucky
enough to dot the ball down overthe line.
Arthur (08:09):
Exactly which players inspired you growing up and what
was inspiring about them?
Jack (08:15):
do you know what I, I'll be honest, I didn't watch a lot
of rugby when I was growing up.
I wasn't one of those, I wasn'ta super fan of rugby.
I enjoyed watching it now andagain, I didn't really watch a
lot of, international games oranything just because, where we
lived in Cornwall, it was verymuch, local rugby and, I
(08:36):
remember going to watch theCornish pirates down at the
local rugby field and thingslike that and some of the senior
games, but that wasn't obviouslythe top level.
for me growing up, I didn'tactually watch quite a lot of
rugby.
But, some of my first memorieswould be.
watching someone like JasonRobinson, and seeing what he can
do on the field and that feelingof when he got the ball, you
(08:58):
knew he was gonna do something,you knew he was gonna do
something special.
obviously I'm a very differentplayer to, to Jason Robinson,
but, that excitement, I wannatry and bring that across when
people are watching me that, Ican create something for the
team.
I can do something that peopleare gonna wanna watch.
so yeah, someone like JasonRobinson again as a winger, I
used to like watching someonelike Sebastian Chabal.
(09:20):
You might not know who he is, heplayed for France, he played for
Sale sharks, and again, he wasthe other side of the ball.
he's, his attack was good, buthis defense was what I really
liked watching, he used to smashpeople.
and when you get that big hitand you have that feeling of
your teammate having a big hit,it certainly brings the energy
as well.
(09:42):
those sort of people that.
Bring the energy in the gameand, create stuff like that is
these people that I used to likewatching.
Arthur (09:48):
How did you manage your nerves before big game?
Jack (09:52):
I think I learned very quickly the fact that I know
there was no point wastingenergy on, on, on nervous for
the game.
There's no need to be nervous,Everyone has a bad game now and
again, nobody's perfect.
And, and I think, as soon as youstart worrying about what might
happen, you then startconcentrating on what you can
actually do in the game.
'cause there's no point worryingabout something that hasn't even
(10:12):
happened yet.
So there's no point beingnervous on something in the game
where you, oh, I might make amistake, I might do something
wrong.
I learned quite quickly when Iwas younger to try and flip that
because, I remember when I wasyounger, my first few games
being very nervous, and then bythe time the game came I was,
quite tired and, mentally tired.
and then I would finish the gameand I would play well and I
(10:32):
would be like, oh, there was nopoint worrying about things in
the game that might havehappened'cause they haven't
happened.
I've played pretty well that Ishould be happy with myself.
so for me, I've always tried tostay positive and always try and
remember that.
I'm a good rugby player.
I do good things on the fieldand I try and focus on those
sort of things opposed tomistakes.
And, like I said, everyone makesa mistake.
(10:53):
No one's perfect in a game,which taught me to, when I do
make my mistakes in a game, Imove on quite quickly and I try
and do something positive, quitequickly after.
Arthur (11:03):
It is very helpful.
What is the best piece of advicea coaches gave you?
Jack (11:08):
Best piece of advice?
probably a bit cliche, probably.
You've probably had this a lot,but, have fun.
Make sure you're having fun.
if you're not having fun,there's no point doing it.
even now when I'm in these biggames and I'm, playing against
some of the best players in theworld, the reason why I started
rugby was'cause I was playingwith my best mates.
I was having fun with them.
(11:29):
it certainly doesn't feel like ajob for me even now.
so yeah, if you're not havingfun, there's no point doing it.
And, I was very lucky that, Iwasn't pushed when I was
younger.
I just, naturally enjoyed it.
yeah, I'm, always having funwhen I'm on the field and I'm
always smiling.
Even when you're losing, you'restill very lucky I still feel
very lucky to be out there, and,still a chance to, give, to
(11:53):
bring the game back and win.
another good bit of advice Ilearned was become very good
friends with your fly half andscrum half, because they're the
guys that are gonna give you theball.
So make sure you know those twoinside out,
Arthur (12:06):
fly half.
Perfect.
Jack (12:08):
There you go.
we'll be best mates, then.
Arthur (12:11):
Jack, you played in a very, successful Exeter team.
Also a grand Slam winningEngland team.
What makes a great team?
Jack (12:20):
Oh, the, I've never been asked that question before.
That's a good question.
what makes a good team?
I think off the field.
Off the field, relationships arevery important.
I believe that if you, becomevery good friends off the field,
you are certainly willing towork extra harder for your
teammates.
you are willing to puteverything on the line to, to,
(12:42):
win that game.
Whether that's a, trial like wespoke about, whether that's a
try saving tackle in the corner,you are willing to, give that
little bit more to make surethat you're doing everything you
can do to win for that team.
I think for me, certainly atExeter, I'm, I grew up with a
lot of those players and, I, forexample, Luke Cowan-Dickie, me
(13:04):
and Luke Cowan-Dickie haveplayed together since we were
five.
the year we left Exeter was the,same year.
So that was the year we, stoppedplaying with each other, but
that was from five years old to29 years old.
it's a long time.
So he knows me very well.
I know him very well.
And when you are, when you'rewinning together and you're
lifting trophies, everythingbecomes worth it.
And you look across and you'vegot your best mates there, and
(13:25):
you're doing, and you'veachieved these things with those
boys.
yeah, there's honestly no betterfeeling than that.
So I think, relationships offthe field and it's not, they're
not hard, that they're not, easyto build.
Sorry.
You've got to, you've got a,you've got a work of that.
a lot of people think, when youget signed for a club and if
you're lucky enough to be signedby Exeter Chiefs, you feel
straight in and then you startplaying really well.
(13:48):
It's, quite hard.
You, need to build thoserelationships off the field
quite quickly.
And, I've learned that moving toLa Rochelle a couple of years
ago, not knowing anybody thatplayed here, But now even, being
here for two, two and a bityears, I feel like some of these
boys are my best friends now.
rugby's a, is a brilliant gamewhere you can fit straight in
(14:09):
and you can, you have somethingin common straight away.
You have the, a common goal thatyou want to achieve together.
So yeah, I think it's brilliant.
Arthur (14:15):
How did you do that?
Jack (14:17):
I think it's very much, the coach is a, big part of
that.
You need to make, time in your,week, for boys to gel, for boys
to get together.
for me, I'm a very sociableperson as well, so I like
getting out.
I've got a family, I've gotthree kids, my wife, coming
here, the boys made me feel verywelcome.
(14:39):
getting our kids together,getting the wives together.
you, feel you've become part ofthe team quite quickly and,
Ronan O'Gara is our, isobviously our head coach and,
he, is very family driven and,he, I never forget, the first
thing he said to me when I camehere was, if your wife and your
kids aren't settled, I don'twant to see you in the club.
(15:00):
I only want you to come into theclub when your family is settled
'cause he knows how important,family and friends are for me
that's very much something thatI want to give and, drive for as
well.
'cause for me, family's veryimportant.
Arthur (15:13):
So Jack, what do you think Makes you successful?
Jack (15:17):
Very much from a hardworking background, I think,
my, my dad's a fisherman, they,that's an extremely hard job for
them.
probably a bit too hard for me.
but, I dunno, I think I was,brought up, to, be with this
hardworking family.
I was brought up to, respect myfriends, my family, And, growing
(15:42):
up and seeing, being with my dadand things like that, he'd done
absolutely everything for thathe could do to make our lives,
as comfortable.
me and my two other brothers andmy sister, for our lives to be
as comfortable as possible.
And, sometimes that sacrificewas him being away at sea for a
lot of times and, not seeing hima lot growing up.
But, I under, I understand nowthat I'm older and I have my own
(16:05):
family that, they're allsacrifices.
You got, you've got to make to.
To, be able to have your family,safe and, and, ready for,
anything.
I think now I've got my ownfamily.
it's certainly changed mymentality a lot about why I play
and why I, turn up the trainingevery day and why I put my body
(16:26):
on the line every weekendbecause, at the start, and for
me, it still hasn't changed.
I play for fun.
I play to be with my mates.
it's certainly, one of the bestfeelings in the world, but.
at the same time now afterhaving kids, I'm, doing things
where I need to make their livesas comfortable as possible.
And, sometimes I do sit back andhave a look and, we're living in
France, we're, in with beautifulweather, my kids are, fluent
(16:50):
French now, which is, awesometo, to see and to be able to see
them speak it.
'cause they're a lot better atthe language than I am.
and they're all the perks of whyyou do this and why you do that
every weekend.
'cause there are a few dark bitsin rugby that, you need to get
through, injuries, losses, forme in my career, injuries has
(17:11):
been, up there a lot.
the amount of, niggles andinjuries I've, picked up.
But, it makes it all worth it atthe end when you see your kids
smiling and your kids thriving.
So yeah, it's, for me it's,family's the most important
thing.
Arthur (17:25):
thank you.
And as you said, your dad was afisherman.
Do you fish a lot?
Jack (17:31):
I'm a fake fisherman mate.
I, when I was younger, I used togo out at my rod and my reel.
but that's probably about as faras I go because, I remember
growing up and seeing some ofthe videos on my dad's phone of
them being out in sea in stormsand horrible weather, freezing
cold and that's, luckily for me,I've, always had rugby to get my
(17:53):
teeth into.
if it wasn't for rugby, maybeI'd be out there fishing as
well.
But yeah, I've never,experienced a, trip outta sea
yet.
Arthur (18:02):
Have you, caught any, big fish with your rod?
Jack (18:06):
Not, any.
I'm proud of to be honest.
the, fish, the fishing things Icatch at the moment is when I go
crabbing down at the rock poolswith my, two girls and my son.
that's as far as I go forfishing at the minute.
Arthur (18:18):
Thank you.
To any young and aspiringwingers out there, what's one
piece of advice you would givethem?
Jack (18:25):
Oh, good question.
I think a lot like we spokeabout, I think.
Remember why you started playingrugby.
that you are obviously enjoyingit.
It's why you're doing it.
so don't forget that, as long asyou're out on the field enjoying
it, it doesn't matter what levelyou're at.
because at the end of the day,it's fun.
(18:46):
It's fun what you're doing.
If you're having fun, you'remore likely to play well.
so yeah, that side of it'sbrilliant that I think,'cause
again, like I said, for me, I'mdoing it as a job, but I don't
feel it as a job.
I'm still having fun with mybest mates and.
I look back at when I was, yourage and when I was younger, and,
for me that was some of the besttimes of, playing rugby, going
(19:07):
away on, on club trips with yourbest mates, going away on school
trips with your, school friendsand playing all these different
teams at rugby.
it's, brilliant.
So I think, yeah, like I said,as long as you're having fun,
you've got a smile on your face,you are, you're gonna achieve
some good things.
Arthur (19:22):
Which other position in the team do you rely on the
most?
Jack (19:26):
Oof, probably a bit, like I mentioned before, for me,
scrum half, fly half, are veryimportant.
and like I said, I'm not, aplayer that, that likes to stay
on my wing a lot.
So I do like to come around thescrum half and around the fly
half and see if I can get myhands on the ball as much as
possible.
'cause the, scrum half'sobviously the big link between
the forwards and the backs.
(19:49):
I think you've gotta have areally good.
relationship with your Fullbackand your other winger.
'cause they're the guys whenyou're out there, they're gonna
help you a lot.
And a lot of the times myFullback that I'm playing with
makes me look good.
yeah, I think for me, scrumhalf, fly half, and, your
fullback are, important guysthat you need to be on the field
with.
Arthur (20:08):
What was the facet of rugby, which was your particular
strength growing up?
Jack (20:13):
think that's always the, that's always the main thing
when you're playing rugby, isn'tit?
Yeah, I've gone through manydifferent strategies of not
being able to get tackled.
I used to catch the ball on oneside of the field, run around my
whole team behind them, and thentry and run up the other wing,
until I used to get told off bymy coach.
'cause he said, you can't dothat forever, Jack.
you need to try start runningforward.
(20:35):
but I think for me it'sprobably, that's led on to then
the way I play rugby now.
I think it's, your footwork andyour, being able to step players
and especially when you're goingagainst some of those bigger
boys on the field, some of thoseforwards, those big hairy
forwards, you need to, I don'twanna be squashed by them.
yeah, my footwork before that,trying to step them, and make
some of the bigger boys looksilly.
(20:58):
and then probably one of my mainthings is, my strength after I
have been tackled, or I've beenhalf tackled, to be able to,
bust through those, tackles andtry and make a, a few more
meters for the team.
Arthur (21:09):
As you talked about stepping people, what was your
favorite step?
Jack (21:14):
I had a good one last season where one of the we were
playing against Perpignan and, abig scary Fijian came flying out
the line.
And I was lucky enough to stepin and get around the outside of
him and I went down the wing.
but maybe one of my favoritesteps has been, probably for my
try in against the wasps in the2000, I think it was 16 final.
(21:36):
where Luke Cowan-Dickie gave methe ball on the inside and I had
a little step round the winger,and then got into the corner and
scored our first try.
So yeah, probably, that one.
Arthur (21:46):
Thank you.
Jack.
Who's the best player you'veplayed with or against?
Jack (21:51):
I feel I've been very lucky to play with and against
some, some amazing players.
I think.
certainly this year I would saysomeone like Will Skelton, I'm
sure everyone's seen what he's,what he did in the, in, in the
tests against the Lions.
but he's a brilliant player toplay with.
(22:11):
he and a horrible player to playagainst as, we've all seen.
But yeah, he's, obviously so bigand so strong, but.
Again, his skills are very good.
He, takes about four or fivedefenders to stop him.
So it make, gives us a lot, moreroom on the edge.
Manu Tuilagi at the same time, Ireally like playing with Manu
Tuilagi again'cause he's strong.
Makes things happen very hard totackle.
(22:33):
But yeah, probably, I'veobviously played against Manu, a
few times as well, so I'd sayyeah, Manu's probably one of the
hard people to, play against'cause I do not tackling him.
Arthur (22:43):
What is the best thing about being a professional rugby
player?
Jack (22:47):
To be honest, mate, I still don't look at myself as a
professional rugby player.
obviously it's my job and it,pays the bills and things like
that.
But, I, really don't look at itas that.
I get to, go Monday to Fridayinto a, rugby environment where,
we have, one of the best gyms,we have some of the best rugby
(23:09):
fields, some of the best coachesin the world, and, I get to play
rugby, I get to learn every dayfrom these other people.
I get to.
Go in the gym and stay in shape.
And then obviously the ultimateside to it is that Saturday,
Sunday, when you come to MatchDay and I get to play in front
of, 18,000, 18,000 people at theStade Deflandre here in, in
(23:30):
France.
And it's surreal.
Sometimes you look around andyou think, I'm getting paid for
this.
for me, I, don't look at it asthat.
I still look at it as the, aswhen I was five years old when I
started that I'm playing with mybest friends, I'm having fun.
and at the end of the day I'mchucking a rugby ball around the
field.
and it's as simple as that.
(23:51):
So that's the way I still lookat it now.
Arthur (23:53):
What is the worst thing about being a professional rugby
player?
Jack (23:56):
I think for me it's probably been, spending time
away from the family's tough, Ithink.
the Lions tour I went to, whichI was lucky enough to be
selected for against NewZealand.
you're away for nine weeks, sixnations, you're away for seven
weeks.
but at the same time, at thesame time you're representing
your country and things likethat.
(24:16):
So again, that's about thesacrifices that, that I
mentioned at the start.
I think probably the main, theworst thing for me has probably
been my injuries and stuff thatI've gone through for my career.
touch wood, I'm still good now.
I'm still going, but I've had,11 operations now.
so I've had a, a fair few ofoperation, operations.
(24:37):
luckily I've come back frommore, I'm, in good shape still.
I'm still able to play, there'sa lot of people out there that
aren't as lucky as what positionI'm in at the minute.
but yeah, probably mentallytrying to get through those
injuries and coming, trying toget back fitter and better
again.
And, when you pick up anotherinjury again, it seems tough at
the time, but you're alwaysgonna get through it and you're
(24:58):
always gonna be okay at the endof it.
So that's what I've learned.
Yeah, for me, probably the, fairfew injuries that I've had so
far.
Arthur (25:04):
As you talked about the Lions Tour, what was your
favorite game you played on theLions Tour?
Jack (25:09):
playing in that second test was, big, getting my cap
and things like that.
I think, for me it was playingagainst the Chiefs in the last
midweek game, I think.
Because, everything went ourway.
I was lucky enough to score twotrys.
but we as a team played really,well.
And, we were always winning thatgame.
So it was a very enjoyable gameto be, part of.
Arthur (25:33):
And did you watch the Lions tour?
This, this, this year?
Jack (25:37):
I did watch it.
It was, it was very exciting.
I thought.
the way Lions started was,brilliant.
But I think, Australia havesome, brilliant players and they
were certainly the underdogsgoing into this and you see the
way they fought in the secondtest, it was awesome to see the
lions win it and the secondtest, but I think, if Australia,
(25:57):
just snuck it at the end, Ithink that third test would've
been even more exciting for bothteams.
So yeah, I did, watch it.
I thought it was brilliant.
Did you enjoy it?
Arthur (26:05):
Yeah, I loved it as well.
Who do you think it should havebeen?
Three nil.
Jack (26:08):
I think the results were justified to be honest.
I would've loved to have it tobe three nil.
there's no better than, giventhe Aussies a whitewash.
But I think, a bit more so nowof being sitting back and being
a bit more of a neutral and justenjoying rugby for what it is.
I think it, it made it to bevery exciting.
I think Australia, deserved towin at the end of it, especially
(26:29):
the way they played in thatsecond test.
And, even more so the way theyplayed in the third test.
Yeah, I think a two one win forthe Lions was, just a
Arthur (26:37):
And who would've got your player of the tournament?
Jack (26:39):
yeah, I think Tom Curry would've got my, my, my player
Arthur (26:42):
why?
Jack (26:45):
I, obviously have, I've been lucky enough to play with
Tom Curry.
I know how good he is a player.
As a player.
I know how professional he is.
And yeah, honestly, playingwith, someone like Tom Curry, he
makes your job very, easy on thefield.
'cause he does a lot of the hardwork that a lot of people don't
see.
and he's horrible to playagainst, he's so strong over the
(27:06):
ball and he's gonna turn it overand things like that.
So he's a, player that youalways need to be aware of.
yeah, I think, yeah.
Tom Curry.
Arthur (27:13):
Thank you.
How have you found moving toFrance and playing rugby in the
top 14?
Jack (27:19):
I've really, enjoyed it.
I think, for me it's somethingI've always wanted to do.
I'd love to have, I've stayedwith Exeter, my whole career.
But, unfortunately things don'talways work out the way you want
it to do.
And, for me, I've was very keento get my family, this is not
the rugby side of, it's the lifeside of it.
I'd like to get my familyexperience different things,
(27:40):
experience different cultures,yeah, I think, yeah, moving to
France is, has been brilliantfor my family.
I think rugby wise, I believe atthe moment that the top 14 is
probably the best competition inthe world to do with rugby.
no, I certainly believe thatwe've got some of the best
players over here playing in theworld at the minute in this
competition.
every single weekend's a bigtest.
(28:02):
you go from one week againstplaying against Toulon, to the
next week playing Toulouse,where you've got someone like,
DuPont, who's probably the bestplayer in the world at the
minute.
you've, it's a challenge.
It has been a challenge.
it probably took me a good fewmonths to be settled and to find
my way a little bit.
but again, like I said, like theteam made me feel very welcome.
(28:24):
Coming over here.
The team are very ambitious.
We want to win things, which iscertainly why I wanted to come
over as well.
'cause, I'm desperate to win thetop 14 and, hopefully get
another trophy under my belt.
Yeah, I think it's been reallygood and it's been successful so
far, and hopefully this seasonwe can actually win a few
trophies.
Arthur (28:42):
Have you been learning a bit more French?
Jack (28:45):
I've been really trying mate, honestly.
and it's so disappointing to,dis yeah, disappointed, but also
a sense of pride that I try anduse some of my French, speaking
to my daughter and my eldestdaughter Nori, who's seven.
And she corrects the way Ipronounce the words and the way
I send, she goes, oh, daddy knowyou need to say it like this.
(29:06):
And I'm like, Ugh.
I, look at her and I'm like, I'mvery proud of you.
But at the same time, I'm, veryjealous of how easy and how well
you've picked up being able tospeak French and, yeah.
I'm trying to learn, but it's, avery hard language to, to learn.
Arthur (29:24):
And What are you most proud of in your rugby career to
date?
Jack (29:29):
I think, yeah, being able to come home every day and see
my kids smiling.
I love that the fact that myfamily fly over from, England to
come and watch me play at ourstadium and the, atmosphere that
they're being able to,experience and be part of.
And, after you've won a biggame, you get to go see them in
(29:49):
the stands after and you seethem all smiling and yeah, my
old man with a pint in his handand he's all happy that, we've
won the game.
yeah, I think, for me it's just,yeah, being able to see my
family happy and like I said,like the, trophies and winning
the games and winning bigcompetitions is important to me,
'cause at the end of the day, Iwant to win these trophies with
(30:11):
my mates, but at the same time,I think, yeah, as long as my
family happy, I'm gonna be givena lot more.
And, I'm also fully aware that,if it isn't for my teammates, if
it wasn't for my teammates atExeter that, that we spoke about
before, the boys that I'veplayed with since I was five
years old.
I, wouldn't have gone on to playfor England.
I wouldn't have gone on to playfor the lions.
(30:33):
'cause at the end of the day,they're the boys that, make you
look good and they're the boysthat you play with every single
week.
And if I'm looking good it's'cause we're winning and we're
playing well and those boys arebeing good.
And, that leads on to the, themplaying for England.
'cause the England coacheslooking at you, and then going
onto the lions is because thelion selectors are looking at
you playing for your country.
(30:53):
so yeah, I think I'm very proudof my family and I'm very proud
of, my mates that I, startedwith.
Arthur (30:58):
Thank you.
And I wanna say thanks so muchfor being a podcast.
I really appreciate you takingyour time.
Jack (31:04):
You are very welcome mate.
I've, I've obviously followedyour podcast since speaking with
you and, yeah, I like your work,mate.
You've had some good guests onit's, you are, you're very good
at what you do, mate.
I feel very privileged To, to,be asked of you on your podcast,
mate.
So thank you very much.
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