August 14, 2025 • 34 mins
Ugo Monye’s journey from a 13-year-old beginner to an England winger, British & Irish Lion, and TV presenter is packed with lessons for young players. In this Rugby Legends episode, Arthur Dickins sits down with Ugo to uncover the mindset, habits, and values that helped him succeed on and off the pitch.
Ugo shares how belief was the turning point in his career, why backing yourself matters more than raw talent, and the role fun has played in every stage of his life. He reflects on career highs like winning the Premiership with Harlequins, representing the Lions, and scoring unforgettable tries — and opens up about handling setbacks, injuries, and tough competition.
You’ll also hear the best advice Ugo ever got from a coach, the rituals that kept him grounded before big games, and his take on why the changing room camaraderie is the most special part of rugby. His stories will inspire you to work hard, enjoy the game, and never lose sight of why you started playing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Arthur (00:05):
Hi, I'm Arthur Dickins and this is my Rugby Legends
podcast.
In each episode, I interview anamazing rugby player or coach to
get their insight and advice foryoung rugby players, just like
me who are keen to learn and getbetter.
In this episode, I'm veryexcited to be speaking with Ex
Harlequins and England WingerUgo Monye.
(00:27):
Ugo spent his entire club careerat Harlequins, where he made 241
appearances in over 13 years,winning the Premiership in 2012.
He represented England 14 timesand played two tests for the
Lions in South Africa in 2009.
Many of you will also recogniseUgo as a pundit for BT Sport's
(00:51):
Rugby Coverage, and as apresenter of the Rugby Union
Weekly Podcast for the BBC.
I hope you find Ugo's knowledgeand wisdom as helpful as I did
enjoy.
So firstly, as you said, youwere quite jet lagged yesterday,
how was the Lions?
Ugo (01:13):
It was absolutely incredible.
it's the first time I've been ontour since playing.
so to be away, as a fan forthree weeks, it felt a bit like
a full circle moment.
Having toured the Lions as aplayer to then be part of the
Sea of Red, 40,000 fanstraveling across Australia.
It was, it was amazing, ofcourse, to see the Lions win.
(01:35):
But to be able to exploreAustralia, it's an amazing
country that offers so much so,yeah, I absolutely loved my
time.
Arthur (01:42):
Thank you.
Do you think it should have beenthree nil?
Ugo (01:47):
It's what they were aiming for, for sure, and I loved how
transparent and honest they werefrom the, from the get go, they
wanted to go there, not just winthe series, but whitewash it.
It's not something that's beendone since 1927.
so they'll be frustrated ofcourse, but it's, it's job done.
It's the first time a Lions teambeen able to go back to back
(02:08):
2013 and then back it up in2025.
And.
Owen Farrell the only player inmodern day history to win two
Lions' series.
So while whilst the dust issettled or when the dust is
settled, I think they'll beimmensely proud of everything
they went and did.
Arthur (02:24):
And who would you say got your player of the
tournament?
Ugo (02:27):
a great question.
Tadhg Beirne got the officialplayer of the series and it's
hard to look past him.
I also thought Dan Sheehan wasjust operating on another
planet.
He is truly world class.
shout out to Maro as captain,there's one thing to captain
your club, another to captainyour country, but to be in a
(02:50):
very small minority of people tocaptain the Lions and do it
successfully.
I thought it was outstanding aswell.
Finn Russell, of course, he's anexciting player that everyone
loves to watch, but yeah.
I've given you loads of names.
You probably just want one, soI'm gonna agree with what was
selected and say Tadhg Beirne.
who was your player of theseries?
Arthur (03:10):
I would say I quite liked, watching Finn Russell
play.
I thought he was brilliant
Ugo (03:15):
Yeah, everyone loves, everyone loves Finn.
He's amazing.
He's so much fun to watch, isn'the?
Arthur (03:21):
Yeah.
Ugo, how did you get into rugbyand how old were you when you
started
Ugo (03:28):
So how old are you, Arthur?
Arthur (03:29):
I'm 12.
Ugo (03:31):
Okay, so I started rugby age 13.
So you are way ahead of thegame.
Way ahead of it.
And sole reason I got into it isI moved to private school called
Lord Wandsworth College, baseddown in Hampshire.
And it was, it was the dominantsport that they played at that
school.
So my sole reason really forgetting into rugby was just to
(03:53):
make friends, sport's an amazingequaliser.
it's a very welcoming community,regardless of whatever sport it
is.
It's a, it's an easy way to beable to make friends, be part of
a community and at a brand newschool.
I just wanted to feel a part ofit and included.
(04:13):
So yeah, the sole reason wasquite simply to make friends.
Arthur (04:17):
Did you play winger at your school?
Ugo (04:19):
I did, I played on the wing, I played at center, but
then they took me away fromcenter'cause I never passed.
I played a bit of fullback, butyeah, mainly on the wing and I
loved it.
Arthur (04:33):
I know you are a talented a hundred meter runner.
What other sports did you playgrowing up and at what age did
you give him up for rugby?
Ugo (04:42):
so yeah, I did loads of athletics.
I loved it.
but also in the summer I playeda lot of cricket.
I loved cricket.
mainly a bowler.
batted a bit, but I wasn't agreat batsman.
I played a lot of football.
In fact, growing up I reallyjust wanted to play football.
I wanted to play for Arsenal, abig Arsenal fan, but, what else
(05:04):
did I do?
But yeah, I guess they wereprobably the.
The sports that occupied themost of my time, and I say to
all young kids, if you wannaplay rugby, that's brilliant,
but.
You don't know what you don'tknow.
I didn't know that at the age of13 that a sport that was alien
to me would end up shaping thenext 29 years of my life.
(05:27):
so I say to everyone, just bereally open to every
opportunity, especially atschool, where you are afforded
so many opportunities to playloads of different sports.
And, having been a sprinterobviously helped me as a winger.
playing football is something Ijust did for fun, but I would
just say, just say yes to, toanything and everything,
especially at school.
Arthur (05:48):
Do you watch cricket?
Ugo (05:50):
Love it.
I absolutely love it.
I was following the test series,against India this summer whilst
I was out in Sydney.
that ended up in a draw and Ithought we were gonna win that,
but, we've got an ashes seriesdown under this winter, which is
gonna be amazing.
I went to the MCG where thesecond test was played, and
(06:10):
that's like the spiritual homeof sport in Australia and seeing
the legends of Shane Warneimmortalising their statues.
So yeah, I, I do follow cricketand in fact I'm looking to get
to a hundred game this summer aswell.
Arthur (06:24):
Oh, nice.
Do you reckon you'll go to theashes?
Ugo (06:28):
Arthur, It's a simple answer.
Yes, I would love to.
In back in the real world,probably not.
I would love to, Christmas inSydney or in Australia during
their summer Boxing Day testmatch at the MCG.
That would be so cool.
But I have work andresponsibility, so I'm not sure
(06:52):
I'll be gifted that time to beable to head off and do that.
Do you, do you like yourcricket?
Arthur (06:57):
Oh yeah.
I love my cricket.
We actually went to the Hundred,two days ago to watch London
Spirit v Oval Invincibles, whichis very cool.
Ugo (07:05):
That's cool.
how cool is Harry Brook, by theway?
Arthur (07:08):
Oh no, I watched the game last night.
He just hit six first ball, so
Ugo (07:12):
Yeah, he saw first Ball of the Match and he's just run down
the wicket and just slapped itoutta the park.
He is, he's so cool.
He would be, would you say he'dbe.
Cricket's version of FinnRussell.
Arthur (07:27):
Oh yeah, I'd have to say so,
Ugo (07:29):
Yeah, he's a maverick.
Arthur (07:31):
And a couple of the cricket, a couple of the lads he
plays with, such as Ben Stokessaid he is like the most
hardworking person on the team,which is quite cool.
Ugo (07:39):
Yeah.
Very, very cool.
Inspirational.
Arthur (07:41):
When did you know that you are really good at rugby?
Ugo (07:44):
I thought I had a chance at making it.
So I did my A Levels and whilstlots of my friends decided to
take a year out and travel, Ithought I'd give it a crack of
harlequins.
I got given opportunity to go,and.
That first year was a bad yearactually.
(08:05):
So in pre-season, I broke my toeand I was out for three months.
I then came back and my firsttraining session back in the
warmup, I rebroke my toe again.
So I was kind of out for theseason.
So I went from being superexcited.
Wow.
I've got Harlequin stash andplaying with legends like Jason
Leonard and Will Greenwood andDan Luger and Keith Wood, having
(08:27):
watched them on the Lions seriesof Australia.
Actually, funnily enough.
And then.
I wasn't sure if I would, wouldget a chance'cause I was
injured.
it wasn't till the next seasonwhere I played sevens and things
started to go pretty well and Ithought, okay.
So I guess to answer thequestion, it's, it's more about
(08:48):
belief, I think.
Every player has talent, variousdifferent levels of talent, but
the thing that drives it moreoften is, is belief.
And I think in my second year iswhen I started to believe in
myself.
And when I started to believe inmyself, I started to perform
well and consistently well.
Arthur (09:06):
Just like Ted Lasso, the sign believe
Ugo (09:10):
it's exactly that.
Honestly, sometimes Hey, lifecan be difficult and life can be
complicated, but actually it canbe really simple and it's
amazing.
Just one emotion of just backingyourself and believing in
yourself can often be thedriving force to.
Being your best self.
And in that second year, Istarted to believe and things
(09:31):
started to happen and you work abit harder and you start seeing
results.
So yeah, I'd say probably age 19is when I was like, oh, okay.
Yeah, I think, I think I belonghere.
Arthur (09:41):
What skill did you have to work the hardest on?
Ugo (09:44):
I think the hardest skill.
Oh gosh.
So I was always a good athlete,so I was always fast and strong
and I prided myself in beingfit.
But you never stop learning thegame of rugby.
you see some really goodathletes, but maybe not great
rugby players and the game, justunderstanding the mechanics of
(10:06):
the game.
We often talk about being astudent of a game, and I think
that's.
That's maybe not the hardest,but it's probably the most
important.
The better you understand thegame, the more you can get out
of it and start manipulatinglaws and certain rhythms within
the game to get the best out ofyou.
So I think it was probably,yeah, the, the game itself, the
(10:29):
skills of the game to be able tocontribute as, as well as I
could.
Arthur (10:33):
Helpful.
Thank you.
What rituals did you have beforea game?
Ugo (10:39):
Okay.
Only one.
Only one.
And it was that I'm proudChristian, and I would ring my
mum before every single game inthe change room and she'd say a
prayer on the phone with me.
So, yeah, I, I, I always didthat.
I remember playing at the Stadede France once and The change
(10:59):
rooms are actually underneaththe stadium, so the reception
was appalling.
So I had to come out the changerooms and go onto the pitch and
I hid behind one of the postprotectors.
And I made sure that I, said aprayer, on the phone and my mum.
So I'd always speak to my mumbefore every single game.
Arthur (11:18):
That's very nice.
Ugo (11:20):
Yeah.
Have you got any?
Arthur (11:22):
I don't think I have to be honest.
I think it's always do my lacesin a double knot if they're not
in a double knot.
Even if they're a single knot, Ihave to do them double,
Ugo (11:32):
That's a good practical way of preparing yourself.
Yeah.
Good on you
Arthur (11:38):
What is the best piece of advice a coaches gave you?
Ugo (11:41):
to back yourself.
To, to back yourself.
And that goes back to likebelief and confidence.
every player has talent.
I've already said this, but noteveryone believes in themselves.
And I think when you are in anenvironment where coaches just
fully back yourself, and makesyou believe in you, it gets the
best out of yours.
With Warren Gatland, just lastweek and I remember on the 2000
(12:05):
Lions Tour.
After maybe the third day ontour, we came back from
training, pulled me into thehotel and said, Ugo, grab a
seat.
And I thought I was in trouble.
I was, oh gosh, what have I donenow?
And he said, you fancy a beer.
I was like, oh gosh.
This is another test.
What's the right answer?
I was like, no.
And he said, do you want a beer?
I said, okay.
(12:26):
So I sat down, grabbed a beer,and he just said to me, you are
really good rugby player, Ugo,and we really like you.
Just back yourself.
That's all I needed to hearstraight away.
I was like, okay.
So the coach likes me, he ratesme, he thinks I'm a good player,
and that just gave me so muchconfidence.
So it was just such a simpleconversation.
(12:48):
We had a beer, the conversationprobably lasted 10 minutes, but
just, just backing yourself andhaving people that believe in
you, I think is such a powerfulemotion.
Arthur (12:58):
Did he come into your house?
Hotel room or did you go intohis.
Ugo (13:02):
No.
So we sat down in the hotel bar,just in reception.
I was just walking in and justsat there and yeah, it's nuts.
I was thinking I was in trouble.
I really did.
but yeah, it was, it's such asimple, it was such a simple
conversation.
You just need people to backyou.
'cause like I always thought Iwas a good rugby player, but.
(13:24):
We live in such a subjectiveworld.
So one coach could think I'm, Iwas a good rugby player.
Another coach might not fancythe way that I played, but
having your coach just saying, Ibelieve in you and I back you
now just go and back yourself.
That just gave me so muchconfidence to be myself, be
comfortable, and apply myself.
(13:44):
So yeah, really simple piece ofadvice.
Yeah, just filling you withconfidence and never
underestimate the value ofworking hard.
Honestly.
That is if you can consistentlyjust work super, super hard
every single day, like everyonewants to be a rugby player, but
not everyone is willing to workhard enough to be a rugby
(14:05):
player.
So like backing yourself andbelieving in yourself, but
underpinned by working superhard.
I think they're the two keythings for me.
Arthur (14:13):
Wow.
Thank you.
Were there any mantras that youlived by?
Ugo (14:17):
I've got a tattoo of Carpe Diem on me, but that's quite
cliche.
Seize the day.
It means in Latin.
but I, I was a person.
I still am, but we all do whatwe do'cause we enjoy it.
Like I, I took up rugby to makefriends, and I got so much
enjoyment from making friendsand having some amazing
(14:38):
memories.
I just wanted to have fun.
every single person that takesup any sport or any hobby does
it because it's fun.
So never ever forget.
To have fun, yeah, it gets veryserious at a high level, but,
but have fun.
put smiles on faces.
People, 40,000 people traveledhalfway around the world to
(15:02):
watch the Lions, and have funand get enjoyment out of it.
So if they're sat in the standswatching you do it, like at
least.
Try and have fun whilst doingit.
Yeah, okay.
You, you'll win games and you'lllose games and you'll have some
tough times and some greattimes, but never forget to have
fun.
Like I'm, I'm a big kid, likeI'm 42 and I'm still a big kid
(15:25):
and I'm always trying to havefun.
So yeah, having fun was verycentral to everything that I
tried to do when I, when Iplayed.
Arthur (15:32):
What is the best thing about being a professional rugby
player?
Ugo (15:38):
your dream.
Living your dream.
I think there's milLions ofpeople that love the game of
rugby that would want to, be aprofessional rugby player, but
being able to imagine me at theage of 13, just taking up rugby
as a bit of a laugh and justmaking friends and then you
realise it could be, it could bea job like my.
(16:02):
My job was my hobby, you know?
So being able to have your hobbyand then turn that into your job
was amazing.
And being able to go to trainingevery day with some of your best
mates was just cool.
the real world's a tough worldand I, you know, I've got lots
(16:22):
of mates and friends andcolleagues that work in the real
world.
I don't think they love whatthey do, where I was going to
work every single day doing thething that I loved with a load
of mates that I really love.
That's probably the coolestthing about it.
Arthur (16:40):
As you said, you talk about your friends.
Do you still talk to any of yourfriends from school now?
Ugo (16:45):
Yep.
I do only a small group of themactually.
you get older people travelaround the world.
People have moved like aroundthe world.
I've got friends that werereally close who.
Live in New York, some in Dubai,some in Hong Kong, travel around
the world.
But we've got a, we've got asmall, we've got a WhatsApp
group, only a small number of uson there.
(17:07):
And I still go back to my oldschool actually, which is really
cool and see the teachersoccasionally.
So, it's still nice to have thatconnection.
Arthur (17:16):
Did you ever watch any of the rugby matches there?
Ugo (17:19):
Yeah, so I went to the Rosslyn Park Sevens actually
last year and watched the underfifteens, go really well.
And actually I watched one ofthe games in, it's, I forgotten
the school's cup this year.
They got to the semi-finals, soI watched that online.
So it's really cool to stillkeep tabs of like, how, how the
school are getting on.
(17:39):
So, yeah, it's really nIrish tostay in touch that way.
Arthur (17:43):
I, I went to Rosslyn Park this year.
It's a very fun tournament.
Ugo (17:47):
So cool.
Isn't it so cool?
I think it's the largest sevenschools sevens tournament in
Europe.
It's huge.
Schools from all over the placecome and travel to be a part of
it.
So I'm sure you had a reallygood time.
Arthur (18:01):
Yeah, it was brilliant.
How did you bounce back after abad game?
Ugo (18:06):
I think.
Once again, it's it's a skillyou have to develop and learn,
and with the nature of thebeast, so we have a game every
single Saturday and I can'tcarry last week's emotion into
this week's match, and thatcould be whether we've won or
we've lost.
So trying to compartmentaliseevery single game is really,
(18:30):
really important.
And I do this with some currentplayers now.
So on Saturday, if you've lostthe game.
Feel however you need to feel,if you wanna feel sad, if you
wanna feel upset, angry,whatever it is, allow yourself
to feel that emotion.
Come Sunday, you probably feelin that same emotion, but a bit
less.
But get to Monday, and you haveto draw a line under it.
(18:52):
Have to draw a line under it.
We come in.
We'll have a team meeting.
We'll review it.
We'll look at the good bits, thebad bits be like,"Arthur, why
didn't you do this?","Ugo, whydidn't you do that?" But by the
end of that meeting, you draw aline under it, and all my
emotion and focus was on thisweekend's game because
ultimately I can't change what'sjust happened.
(19:14):
Not change what's just happened.
We used to have a, a saying onthe pitch where we just, we
would just say, next job.
See, if I dropped a ball,they're allowed to tap me on the
bum and be like, next job.
Ugo, next job.
Because I can't impact what'shappened, but I can have a real
positive impact on what's aboutto happen.
So it's trying to stay focusedand stay in the moment and focus
(19:34):
on what's gonna happen ratherthan what's just happened.
Arthur (19:38):
Wow.
What is, what's the biggestchallenge you face as a rugby
player?
Ugo (19:43):
Injuries.
Injuries, injuries, injuries,and we've got a beautiful sport
and it's a contact sport andsometimes injuries occur.
Like it's just one of thoseunfortunate factors in our game.
And injuries just mean thatyou're probably not training
with the team.
You're probably on your owndoing rehab and you're not
(20:05):
playing like, we're not paidtrainers, we're paid players,
and the one thing everyone wantsto do is play the match.
So when you are injured andyou're not part of the team and
you're just having to try andget yourself back fit to play, I
think that's the frustratingthing because the one thing you
really love is playing thematches and you can't just play
(20:26):
the matches.
And I'm a terrible spectator.
So when I played at Harlequinsand games were going on and I
sat on the sidelines watchingnot being able to have an impact
on the games, I just found sofrustrating.
But it's something, once again,you, you learn to control and
deal with.
Arthur (20:43):
What would you say was your worst injury that you had?
Ugo (20:45):
in 2014 I had a bad groin injury.
so I'd worked hard all preseasonto get myself really fit.
Then we played against, I thinkit was London Irish at
Twickenham, and I scored a trywithin 10 minutes of the brand
new season.
Hooray.
But in the act of scoring a try,I got tackled in my leg and I
(21:06):
actually tore the tendon in mygroin, tore it off the bone, and
so I had a groin reconstruction.
And that was painful.
That, that was, that was threemonths of, so you worked three
months to get fit.
You play 10 minutes of rugby andthen you got to go back and
(21:27):
train for another three monthsjust to get back on the pitch.
That was immensely frustrating.
Arthur (21:32):
Thank you.
Who is the best player you'veplayed with or against?
Ugo (21:37):
best players I've played with.
I think Jonny Wilkinson's abrilliant example of working
really hard, training, reallyhard, being incredibly detailed
and disciplined.
I think Brian O’Driscoll's avery special player'cause he was
so naturally gifted at the gameand was so good across every
aspect of the game.
And players against, Fortunateenough to play against Dan
(22:00):
Carter.
He could do everything.
Just do everything.
Bryan Habana's a very specialplayer on the Wing as an
opponent.
Richie McCaw just had thisincredible aura and ability to
be able to change the momentumof the game, the way he managed
his team led, his team managedthe referees at times.
(22:23):
I was really fortunate to playagainst lots of very, very
special players, and I guessthere's a collection of some of
them.
Arthur (22:29):
That's very interesting.
Thank you.
You played in some great teams,which was was the best team, and
what made it so great.
Ugo (22:39):
there's no better team than the Lions.
you've got the best of the bestfrom Britain and Ireland, and
that's so uniquely special.
it's a club that started in 1888for over 150 years, and there's
been less than 900 players toever play for them.
so it's an incredible honor.
In fact, I went on to chat GPTthe other day.
(23:02):
I think 0.1% of professionalplayers ever get to play for the
British Irish Lions.
Like it's that unique, it's thatspecial.
So to be part of thatcollective, that group also lads
that you go to war with in thesix Nations, you strip and leave
that all to one side and formthis brand new team, form this
(23:23):
brand new identity and representthe best team possible.
So, yeah, the British IrishLions, 100%.
Arthur (23:32):
Who was your best mate on the British Irish Lions tour?
Ugo (23:36):
I had, I had a few, actually, there was, I shared a
room with Jamie Roberts thenight before the first test.
He's someone I, I saw inAustralia just recently.
Brian O'Driscoll, and got onwell with Ronan O’Gara.
I'd gone really well with, I, Iwasn't sure what I'd make of
Ronan.
I played against him a fewtimes.
(23:56):
He was, how should I put it?
Quite outspoken on the pitch.
Quite gobby.
but, awesome, awesome bloke.
Martin Williams, I really liked.
Shane Williams, Rob Kearney,Tommy Bowe, gosh, yeah, a load.
(24:16):
I've not mentioned any of theEnglish players'cause'cause I
knew them.
But yeah, meeting new guys from,from, from new teams.
yeah, that was super cool.
Arthur (24:25):
Thank you.
You played both sevens andfifteens for England.
Which did you enjoy playingmost?
Ugo (24:32):
Oh gosh.
Wow.
oh, what did I enjoy playingmost?
That's such a hard question.
'cause they're so different.
Sevens was my pathway intofifteens.
so I've got such fond memoriesof it playing at the Hong Kong
(24:52):
Sevens.
I played in the World Cup withthe sevens.
We, won loads of trophies,traveled around the world, had
such amazing, so many amazinglike life experiences.
But I think as a player growingup, fifteens is the aim.
And whilst Sevens was amazing,it was a festival.
It was this touring circus.
(25:12):
But then as a winger, you justwanna score tries and you can
score loads of tries, playingsevens.
But ultimately, I love thechallenge of fifteens.
I loved it as a all round game.
Yeah.
So I'm, I'm gonna say fifteens.
Arthur (25:27):
Did you go on any tours in the sevens?
Ugo (25:29):
Yeah, my first trip in fact was to Australia.
that was Brisbane.
So with sevens, Brisbane,Singapore, Hong Kong, Dubai,
South Africa, LA Paris, onmultiple different occasions.
Yeah, we traveled everywhere andit's so much fun.
(25:50):
So, and what was really coolabout it is when, so the
Premiership season starts inSeptember.
And the first seven tournaments,often December, in Dubai.
So as the weather starts to getreally rubbish here and you just
jet off and just chase the sun.
So we were just constantlychasing the sun around the
world, so I loved it.
Arthur (26:12):
What was, what was your favorite moment of your rugby
career?
Ugo (26:15):
winning the Premiership with Harlequins was so special.
That's, Harlequins the only clubI ever played for.
And to be part of the first teamto win a premiership title, you
know, that's legacy, that'shistory.
And to play with some of yourbest mates like lads you've just
grown up with from the age of 16all the way through to seeing
(26:37):
lads become men.
Get married, have children.
That band of brothers like thatwas so special.
And I think winning trophies inyour club side is so, immensely.
no, it feels, it feels deeplyspecial, feels really, really
intimate.
And so I think.
(26:58):
that, that was really special.
play for your country.
Of course your debut is great.
Playing for the Lions, amazing.
But I do look upon that, thatday, summer's day, in 2012
winning that title, was yeah,one of the greatest days I had
in rugby.
Arthur (27:12):
What do you miss most about playing rugby?
Ugo (27:15):
Being with the boys in the changing room.
that's, it's just so much fun.
it's so much fun.
I don't miss the game, playingthe game'cause I'm too old and
the game's too tough.
I don't miss feeling sore.
But being with the lads, Yeah.
Going, like you said, going towork together every single day
(27:38):
with some of your best mates is,is awesome.
away trips on the bus home,traveling and being part of
them.
I just miss the camaraderie.
That's, that's one of the, thebest things about playing the
game.
Arthur (27:51):
That's what, Leon Lloyd said as well.
Ugo (27:54):
It's the best.
It's the best.
Like you don't.
We are just big kids.
We are just big kids.
And being able to imagine beingable to go to work every day
with some of your best mates,like getting changed to go to
work and putting on a vest andshorts and just heading off to
train like it's, yeah, I lovejust spending time with the
(28:14):
boys.
It's so much fun.
Arthur (28:16):
Thank you.
If you could have your rugbycareer all over again.
What position would you chooseto play?
Ugo (28:23):
I loved playing on the Wing.
I did love playing the Wing, butif I had to choose another
position, I'd love to playoutside Center.
I played it a little bit forHarlequins and I enjoyed it, but
if I could play 13 and you justso involved in the action,
defense and attack, it's it's agreat pillared position.
(28:45):
It is part of the spine of theteam.
So yeah, maybe outside center.
Arthur (28:50):
Thank you.
How did you go from a rugbyplayer to a TV presenter?
Ugo (28:56):
I have not a clue! It's a really good question.
I always enjoyed the media whenI played rugby.
I loved the opportunity forpeople to get to know you beyond
just your playing talent.
and then in my final couple ofyears, I actually started
commentating on lots of gamesand really enjoyed it and I
(29:18):
knew.
When I retired, I want to gointo a job that I just enjoyed.
That was the number one thing Iwanted to find.
I wanted to find a job that gaveme enjoyment,'cause my whole
rugby career, I had fun and Ienjoyed it.
So I remember the first game Icommentated on.
The only thing I wanted to knowis would I enjoy it?
(29:39):
And at the end of it, I thought,this is so much fun.
Like it gave me a real buzz.
And I always loved analysis.
I loved analyzing differentteams, different plays,
different systems, and justlearning about the game of
rugby.
And so being given theopportunity to do that was
really cool, but it's a wildlydifferent skill to play in
(30:00):
rugby.
Whilst loads of rugby playersknow the game, that's very
different to broadcasting on thegame.
So being able to communicate isone thing.
Being able to broadcast istotally different thing.
Being able to explain the gamesuccinctly and efficiently live
without mistakes.
That's really, really tough.
And so having this brand newchallenge, being able to learn a
(30:23):
brand new skill, and just beinggiven the opportunity to do it,
it's, I, I, I, I love the gameso much and it's given me so
much.
So I always say I've moved on,but not moved that far away.
So for me, it's a real honor.
To still be at games, to stillbe a part of it, to still feel
that live buzz.
(30:45):
but yeah, essentially it tooklots of hard work.
someone backing me, someone giveme an opportunity, and finding
something that I really enjoyed.
Arthur (30:54):
That's very interesting.
Thank you.
What surprised you most aboutworking in the media?
Ugo (31:00):
Oh, what surprised me most, I think the challenge of, So
close to the players, having tocriticise them is really tough.
really tough.
I think that surprised mebecause you, you just you don't
know what you don't know.
I didn't realise how difficultI'd find it.
(31:21):
Like the first.
My first major broadcasting gigwas working on the 2015 World
Cup where England got knockedoutta the group stages and then
having a microphone under yourchin being asked, how did
England do?
Or should the coach still be thecoach?
Should the captain still be thecaptain?
(31:41):
And you're like.
Oh my gosh, I didn't realise I'dhave to wrestle and, and I, I, I
should have known and I shouldhave maybe been better prepared,
but still nothing prepares youfor that.
There's guys I was in a changingroom with three months ago.
I'm now having to criticise onnational telly.
That was really tough and thatwas definitely a big challenge.
(32:05):
And the other thing that,surprised me, which is a skill,
once again, you, I've learnedis.
It's not what you know is whatyou can say.
We often have a lot ofinformation, but often lots of
the information you have, youdefinitely can't tell people.
So trying to sift through all ofthat.
(32:26):
So yeah, there's been variousdifferent challenges and a
couple of those have reallysurprised me.
Arthur (32:31):
Wow, thank you.
And if it's okay, could wequickly do a quick, fire round?
Ugo (32:36):
Yeah, of course.
Arthur (32:37):
So what was your favorite match of your career?
Ugo (32:41):
Third test, British and Ice Lions 2009.
it's the final game of thattour.
We won it and I scored a cooltry.
Arthur (32:50):
What was your, who was your favorite player growing up?
Ugo (32:53):
Jonah Lomu, what a legend.
Played on the wing.
Absolutely massive.
And I think Rugby's firstsuperstar.
Arthur (33:00):
Have you ever met Jonah Lomu?
Ugo (33:02):
I have, I have.
He sadly passed away, but it wasreally cool to meet him.
Someone who I idolised as ayoung, young lads wanted to be
like, never got anywhere nearhis level or his skill, but
yeah, really, really cool tohave met him.
Arthur (33:17):
And after you score a try, what would you say was your
favorite celebration?
Ugo (33:23):
I never had a celebration like a Henry Pollock for
example, or, Chris Ashton withthe Ash Splash.
It, it was just, I wasn't evencontrol of my body.
I was like so pumped up fromscoring a try that I'd just
throw my arms in the air or justshout to the crowd or turn
around and jump.
And my teammates, I wish I had acool celebration, which I cons,
(33:46):
constantly did.
But yeah, it was more an anemotional response than
anything.
Arthur (33:52):
It's no basketball thrower.
Ugo (33:55):
See, I was never that cool.
I wish I was.
I wish I was cool where Iactually had a celebration that
people remembered, but no, no, Iwasn't that cool.
Unfortunately,
Arthur (34:04):
Thank you.
And if you could be anybody inthe world for one day, who would
you be?
Ugo (34:10):
I'd be Bukayo Saka so I could play for Arsenal.
The Star boy, that would bereally cool.
Yeah, I'd be Saka.
Arthur (34:18):
Thank you and I wanna say thank you so much for
bringing our podcast.
I really appreciate you takingyour time, Ugo,
Ugo (34:27):
No.
Arthur, you've been amazing,great questions.
Thanks so much for having me.
I, I've really enjoyed it.
Hi, I'm Arthur Dickins and this is my Rugby Legends
podcast.
In each episode, I interview anamazing rugby player or coach to
get their insight and advice foryoung rugby players, just like
me who are keen to learn and getbetter.
In this episode, I'm veryexcited to be speaking with Ex
Harlequins and England WingerUgo Monye.
(00:27):
Ugo spent his entire club careerat Harlequins, where he made 241
appearances in over 13 years,winning the Premiership in 2012.
He represented England 14 timesand played two tests for the
Lions in South Africa in 2009.
Many of you will also recogniseUgo as a pundit for BT Sport's
(00:51):
Rugby Coverage, and as apresenter of the Rugby Union
Weekly Podcast for the BBC.
I hope you find Ugo's knowledgeand wisdom as helpful as I did
enjoy.
So firstly, as you said, youwere quite jet lagged yesterday,
how was the Lions?
Ugo (01:13):
It was absolutely incredible.
it's the first time I've been ontour since playing.
so to be away, as a fan forthree weeks, it felt a bit like
a full circle moment.
Having toured the Lions as aplayer to then be part of the
Sea of Red, 40,000 fanstraveling across Australia.
It was, it was amazing, ofcourse, to see the Lions win.
(01:35):
But to be able to exploreAustralia, it's an amazing
country that offers so much so,yeah, I absolutely loved my
time.
Arthur (01:42):
Thank you.
Do you think it should have beenthree nil?
Ugo (01:47):
It's what they were aiming for, for sure, and I loved how
transparent and honest they werefrom the, from the get go, they
wanted to go there, not just winthe series, but whitewash it.
It's not something that's beendone since 1927.
so they'll be frustrated ofcourse, but it's, it's job done.
It's the first time a Lions teambeen able to go back to back
(02:08):
2013 and then back it up in2025.
And.
Owen Farrell the only player inmodern day history to win two
Lions' series.
So while whilst the dust issettled or when the dust is
settled, I think they'll beimmensely proud of everything
they went and did.
Arthur (02:24):
And who would you say got your player of the
tournament?
Ugo (02:27):
a great question.
Tadhg Beirne got the officialplayer of the series and it's
hard to look past him.
I also thought Dan Sheehan wasjust operating on another
planet.
He is truly world class.
shout out to Maro as captain,there's one thing to captain
your club, another to captainyour country, but to be in a
(02:50):
very small minority of people tocaptain the Lions and do it
successfully.
I thought it was outstanding aswell.
Finn Russell, of course, he's anexciting player that everyone
loves to watch, but yeah.
I've given you loads of names.
You probably just want one, soI'm gonna agree with what was
selected and say Tadhg Beirne.
who was your player of theseries?
Arthur (03:10):
I would say I quite liked, watching Finn Russell
play.
I thought he was brilliant
Ugo (03:15):
Yeah, everyone loves, everyone loves Finn.
He's amazing.
He's so much fun to watch, isn'the?
Arthur (03:21):
Yeah.
Ugo, how did you get into rugbyand how old were you when you
started
Ugo (03:28):
So how old are you, Arthur?
Arthur (03:29):
I'm 12.
Ugo (03:31):
Okay, so I started rugby age 13.
So you are way ahead of thegame.
Way ahead of it.
And sole reason I got into it isI moved to private school called
Lord Wandsworth College, baseddown in Hampshire.
And it was, it was the dominantsport that they played at that
school.
So my sole reason really forgetting into rugby was just to
(03:53):
make friends, sport's an amazingequaliser.
it's a very welcoming community,regardless of whatever sport it
is.
It's a, it's an easy way to beable to make friends, be part of
a community and at a brand newschool.
I just wanted to feel a part ofit and included.
(04:13):
So yeah, the sole reason wasquite simply to make friends.
Arthur (04:17):
Did you play winger at your school?
Ugo (04:19):
I did, I played on the wing, I played at center, but
then they took me away fromcenter'cause I never passed.
I played a bit of fullback, butyeah, mainly on the wing and I
loved it.
Arthur (04:33):
I know you are a talented a hundred meter runner.
What other sports did you playgrowing up and at what age did
you give him up for rugby?
Ugo (04:42):
so yeah, I did loads of athletics.
I loved it.
but also in the summer I playeda lot of cricket.
I loved cricket.
mainly a bowler.
batted a bit, but I wasn't agreat batsman.
I played a lot of football.
In fact, growing up I reallyjust wanted to play football.
I wanted to play for Arsenal, abig Arsenal fan, but, what else
(05:04):
did I do?
But yeah, I guess they wereprobably the.
The sports that occupied themost of my time, and I say to
all young kids, if you wannaplay rugby, that's brilliant,
but.
You don't know what you don'tknow.
I didn't know that at the age of13 that a sport that was alien
to me would end up shaping thenext 29 years of my life.
(05:27):
so I say to everyone, just bereally open to every
opportunity, especially atschool, where you are afforded
so many opportunities to playloads of different sports.
And, having been a sprinterobviously helped me as a winger.
playing football is something Ijust did for fun, but I would
just say, just say yes to, toanything and everything,
especially at school.
Arthur (05:48):
Do you watch cricket?
Ugo (05:50):
Love it.
I absolutely love it.
I was following the test series,against India this summer whilst
I was out in Sydney.
that ended up in a draw and Ithought we were gonna win that,
but, we've got an ashes seriesdown under this winter, which is
gonna be amazing.
I went to the MCG where thesecond test was played, and
(06:10):
that's like the spiritual homeof sport in Australia and seeing
the legends of Shane Warneimmortalising their statues.
So yeah, I, I do follow cricketand in fact I'm looking to get
to a hundred game this summer aswell.
Arthur (06:24):
Oh, nice.
Do you reckon you'll go to theashes?
Ugo (06:28):
Arthur, It's a simple answer.
Yes, I would love to.
In back in the real world,probably not.
I would love to, Christmas inSydney or in Australia during
their summer Boxing Day testmatch at the MCG.
That would be so cool.
But I have work andresponsibility, so I'm not sure
(06:52):
I'll be gifted that time to beable to head off and do that.
Do you, do you like yourcricket?
Arthur (06:57):
Oh yeah.
I love my cricket.
We actually went to the Hundred,two days ago to watch London
Spirit v Oval Invincibles, whichis very cool.
Ugo (07:05):
That's cool.
how cool is Harry Brook, by theway?
Arthur (07:08):
Oh no, I watched the game last night.
He just hit six first ball, so
Ugo (07:12):
Yeah, he saw first Ball of the Match and he's just run down
the wicket and just slapped itoutta the park.
He is, he's so cool.
He would be, would you say he'dbe.
Cricket's version of FinnRussell.
Arthur (07:27):
Oh yeah, I'd have to say so,
Ugo (07:29):
Yeah, he's a maverick.
Arthur (07:31):
And a couple of the cricket, a couple of the lads he
plays with, such as Ben Stokessaid he is like the most
hardworking person on the team,which is quite cool.
Ugo (07:39):
Yeah.
Very, very cool.
Inspirational.
Arthur (07:41):
When did you know that you are really good at rugby?
Ugo (07:44):
I thought I had a chance at making it.
So I did my A Levels and whilstlots of my friends decided to
take a year out and travel, Ithought I'd give it a crack of
harlequins.
I got given opportunity to go,and.
That first year was a bad yearactually.
(08:05):
So in pre-season, I broke my toeand I was out for three months.
I then came back and my firsttraining session back in the
warmup, I rebroke my toe again.
So I was kind of out for theseason.
So I went from being superexcited.
Wow.
I've got Harlequin stash andplaying with legends like Jason
Leonard and Will Greenwood andDan Luger and Keith Wood, having
(08:27):
watched them on the Lions seriesof Australia.
Actually, funnily enough.
And then.
I wasn't sure if I would, wouldget a chance'cause I was
injured.
it wasn't till the next seasonwhere I played sevens and things
started to go pretty well and Ithought, okay.
So I guess to answer thequestion, it's, it's more about
(08:48):
belief, I think.
Every player has talent, variousdifferent levels of talent, but
the thing that drives it moreoften is, is belief.
And I think in my second year iswhen I started to believe in
myself.
And when I started to believe inmyself, I started to perform
well and consistently well.
Arthur (09:06):
Just like Ted Lasso, the sign believe
Ugo (09:10):
it's exactly that.
Honestly, sometimes Hey, lifecan be difficult and life can be
complicated, but actually it canbe really simple and it's
amazing.
Just one emotion of just backingyourself and believing in
yourself can often be thedriving force to.
Being your best self.
And in that second year, Istarted to believe and things
(09:31):
started to happen and you work abit harder and you start seeing
results.
So yeah, I'd say probably age 19is when I was like, oh, okay.
Yeah, I think, I think I belonghere.
Arthur (09:41):
What skill did you have to work the hardest on?
Ugo (09:44):
I think the hardest skill.
Oh gosh.
So I was always a good athlete,so I was always fast and strong
and I prided myself in beingfit.
But you never stop learning thegame of rugby.
you see some really goodathletes, but maybe not great
rugby players and the game, justunderstanding the mechanics of
(10:06):
the game.
We often talk about being astudent of a game, and I think
that's.
That's maybe not the hardest,but it's probably the most
important.
The better you understand thegame, the more you can get out
of it and start manipulatinglaws and certain rhythms within
the game to get the best out ofyou.
So I think it was probably,yeah, the, the game itself, the
(10:29):
skills of the game to be able tocontribute as, as well as I
could.
Arthur (10:33):
Helpful.
Thank you.
What rituals did you have beforea game?
Ugo (10:39):
Okay.
Only one.
Only one.
And it was that I'm proudChristian, and I would ring my
mum before every single game inthe change room and she'd say a
prayer on the phone with me.
So, yeah, I, I, I always didthat.
I remember playing at the Stadede France once and The change
(10:59):
rooms are actually underneaththe stadium, so the reception
was appalling.
So I had to come out the changerooms and go onto the pitch and
I hid behind one of the postprotectors.
And I made sure that I, said aprayer, on the phone and my mum.
So I'd always speak to my mumbefore every single game.
Arthur (11:18):
That's very nice.
Ugo (11:20):
Yeah.
Have you got any?
Arthur (11:22):
I don't think I have to be honest.
I think it's always do my lacesin a double knot if they're not
in a double knot.
Even if they're a single knot, Ihave to do them double,
Ugo (11:32):
That's a good practical way of preparing yourself.
Yeah.
Good on you
Arthur (11:38):
What is the best piece of advice a coaches gave you?
Ugo (11:41):
to back yourself.
To, to back yourself.
And that goes back to likebelief and confidence.
every player has talent.
I've already said this, but noteveryone believes in themselves.
And I think when you are in anenvironment where coaches just
fully back yourself, and makesyou believe in you, it gets the
best out of yours.
With Warren Gatland, just lastweek and I remember on the 2000
(12:05):
Lions Tour.
After maybe the third day ontour, we came back from
training, pulled me into thehotel and said, Ugo, grab a
seat.
And I thought I was in trouble.
I was, oh gosh, what have I donenow?
And he said, you fancy a beer.
I was like, oh gosh.
This is another test.
What's the right answer?
I was like, no.
And he said, do you want a beer?
I said, okay.
(12:26):
So I sat down, grabbed a beer,and he just said to me, you are
really good rugby player, Ugo,and we really like you.
Just back yourself.
That's all I needed to hearstraight away.
I was like, okay.
So the coach likes me, he ratesme, he thinks I'm a good player,
and that just gave me so muchconfidence.
So it was just such a simpleconversation.
(12:48):
We had a beer, the conversationprobably lasted 10 minutes, but
just, just backing yourself andhaving people that believe in
you, I think is such a powerfulemotion.
Arthur (12:58):
Did he come into your house?
Hotel room or did you go intohis.
Ugo (13:02):
No.
So we sat down in the hotel bar,just in reception.
I was just walking in and justsat there and yeah, it's nuts.
I was thinking I was in trouble.
I really did.
but yeah, it was, it's such asimple, it was such a simple
conversation.
You just need people to backyou.
'cause like I always thought Iwas a good rugby player, but.
(13:24):
We live in such a subjectiveworld.
So one coach could think I'm, Iwas a good rugby player.
Another coach might not fancythe way that I played, but
having your coach just saying, Ibelieve in you and I back you
now just go and back yourself.
That just gave me so muchconfidence to be myself, be
comfortable, and apply myself.
(13:44):
So yeah, really simple piece ofadvice.
Yeah, just filling you withconfidence and never
underestimate the value ofworking hard.
Honestly.
That is if you can consistentlyjust work super, super hard
every single day, like everyonewants to be a rugby player, but
not everyone is willing to workhard enough to be a rugby
(14:05):
player.
So like backing yourself andbelieving in yourself, but
underpinned by working superhard.
I think they're the two keythings for me.
Arthur (14:13):
Wow.
Thank you.
Were there any mantras that youlived by?
Ugo (14:17):
I've got a tattoo of Carpe Diem on me, but that's quite
cliche.
Seize the day.
It means in Latin.
but I, I was a person.
I still am, but we all do whatwe do'cause we enjoy it.
Like I, I took up rugby to makefriends, and I got so much
enjoyment from making friendsand having some amazing
(14:38):
memories.
I just wanted to have fun.
every single person that takesup any sport or any hobby does
it because it's fun.
So never ever forget.
To have fun, yeah, it gets veryserious at a high level, but,
but have fun.
put smiles on faces.
People, 40,000 people traveledhalfway around the world to
(15:02):
watch the Lions, and have funand get enjoyment out of it.
So if they're sat in the standswatching you do it, like at
least.
Try and have fun whilst doingit.
Yeah, okay.
You, you'll win games and you'lllose games and you'll have some
tough times and some greattimes, but never forget to have
fun.
Like I'm, I'm a big kid, likeI'm 42 and I'm still a big kid
(15:25):
and I'm always trying to havefun.
So yeah, having fun was verycentral to everything that I
tried to do when I, when Iplayed.
Arthur (15:32):
What is the best thing about being a professional rugby
player?
Ugo (15:38):
your dream.
Living your dream.
I think there's milLions ofpeople that love the game of
rugby that would want to, be aprofessional rugby player, but
being able to imagine me at theage of 13, just taking up rugby
as a bit of a laugh and justmaking friends and then you
realise it could be, it could bea job like my.
(16:02):
My job was my hobby, you know?
So being able to have your hobbyand then turn that into your job
was amazing.
And being able to go to trainingevery day with some of your best
mates was just cool.
the real world's a tough worldand I, you know, I've got lots
(16:22):
of mates and friends andcolleagues that work in the real
world.
I don't think they love whatthey do, where I was going to
work every single day doing thething that I loved with a load
of mates that I really love.
That's probably the coolestthing about it.
Arthur (16:40):
As you said, you talk about your friends.
Do you still talk to any of yourfriends from school now?
Ugo (16:45):
Yep.
I do only a small group of themactually.
you get older people travelaround the world.
People have moved like aroundthe world.
I've got friends that werereally close who.
Live in New York, some in Dubai,some in Hong Kong, travel around
the world.
But we've got a, we've got asmall, we've got a WhatsApp
group, only a small number of uson there.
(17:07):
And I still go back to my oldschool actually, which is really
cool and see the teachersoccasionally.
So, it's still nice to have thatconnection.
Arthur (17:16):
Did you ever watch any of the rugby matches there?
Ugo (17:19):
Yeah, so I went to the Rosslyn Park Sevens actually
last year and watched the underfifteens, go really well.
And actually I watched one ofthe games in, it's, I forgotten
the school's cup this year.
They got to the semi-finals, soI watched that online.
So it's really cool to stillkeep tabs of like, how, how the
school are getting on.
(17:39):
So, yeah, it's really nIrish tostay in touch that way.
Arthur (17:43):
I, I went to Rosslyn Park this year.
It's a very fun tournament.
Ugo (17:47):
So cool.
Isn't it so cool?
I think it's the largest sevenschools sevens tournament in
Europe.
It's huge.
Schools from all over the placecome and travel to be a part of
it.
So I'm sure you had a reallygood time.
Arthur (18:01):
Yeah, it was brilliant.
How did you bounce back after abad game?
Ugo (18:06):
I think.
Once again, it's it's a skillyou have to develop and learn,
and with the nature of thebeast, so we have a game every
single Saturday and I can'tcarry last week's emotion into
this week's match, and thatcould be whether we've won or
we've lost.
So trying to compartmentaliseevery single game is really,
(18:30):
really important.
And I do this with some currentplayers now.
So on Saturday, if you've lostthe game.
Feel however you need to feel,if you wanna feel sad, if you
wanna feel upset, angry,whatever it is, allow yourself
to feel that emotion.
Come Sunday, you probably feelin that same emotion, but a bit
less.
But get to Monday, and you haveto draw a line under it.
(18:52):
Have to draw a line under it.
We come in.
We'll have a team meeting.
We'll review it.
We'll look at the good bits, thebad bits be like,"Arthur, why
didn't you do this?","Ugo, whydidn't you do that?" But by the
end of that meeting, you draw aline under it, and all my
emotion and focus was on thisweekend's game because
ultimately I can't change what'sjust happened.
(19:14):
Not change what's just happened.
We used to have a, a saying onthe pitch where we just, we
would just say, next job.
See, if I dropped a ball,they're allowed to tap me on the
bum and be like, next job.
Ugo, next job.
Because I can't impact what'shappened, but I can have a real
positive impact on what's aboutto happen.
So it's trying to stay focusedand stay in the moment and focus
(19:34):
on what's gonna happen ratherthan what's just happened.
Arthur (19:38):
Wow.
What is, what's the biggestchallenge you face as a rugby
player?
Ugo (19:43):
Injuries.
Injuries, injuries, injuries,and we've got a beautiful sport
and it's a contact sport andsometimes injuries occur.
Like it's just one of thoseunfortunate factors in our game.
And injuries just mean thatyou're probably not training
with the team.
You're probably on your owndoing rehab and you're not
(20:05):
playing like, we're not paidtrainers, we're paid players,
and the one thing everyone wantsto do is play the match.
So when you are injured andyou're not part of the team and
you're just having to try andget yourself back fit to play, I
think that's the frustratingthing because the one thing you
really love is playing thematches and you can't just play
(20:26):
the matches.
And I'm a terrible spectator.
So when I played at Harlequinsand games were going on and I
sat on the sidelines watchingnot being able to have an impact
on the games, I just found sofrustrating.
But it's something, once again,you, you learn to control and
deal with.
Arthur (20:43):
What would you say was your worst injury that you had?
Ugo (20:45):
in 2014 I had a bad groin injury.
so I'd worked hard all preseasonto get myself really fit.
Then we played against, I thinkit was London Irish at
Twickenham, and I scored a trywithin 10 minutes of the brand
new season.
Hooray.
But in the act of scoring a try,I got tackled in my leg and I
(21:06):
actually tore the tendon in mygroin, tore it off the bone, and
so I had a groin reconstruction.
And that was painful.
That, that was, that was threemonths of, so you worked three
months to get fit.
You play 10 minutes of rugby andthen you got to go back and
(21:27):
train for another three monthsjust to get back on the pitch.
That was immensely frustrating.
Arthur (21:32):
Thank you.
Who is the best player you'veplayed with or against?
Ugo (21:37):
best players I've played with.
I think Jonny Wilkinson's abrilliant example of working
really hard, training, reallyhard, being incredibly detailed
and disciplined.
I think Brian O’Driscoll's avery special player'cause he was
so naturally gifted at the gameand was so good across every
aspect of the game.
And players against, Fortunateenough to play against Dan
(22:00):
Carter.
He could do everything.
Just do everything.
Bryan Habana's a very specialplayer on the Wing as an
opponent.
Richie McCaw just had thisincredible aura and ability to
be able to change the momentumof the game, the way he managed
his team led, his team managedthe referees at times.
(22:23):
I was really fortunate to playagainst lots of very, very
special players, and I guessthere's a collection of some of
them.
Arthur (22:29):
That's very interesting.
Thank you.
You played in some great teams,which was was the best team, and
what made it so great.
Ugo (22:39):
there's no better team than the Lions.
you've got the best of the bestfrom Britain and Ireland, and
that's so uniquely special.
it's a club that started in 1888for over 150 years, and there's
been less than 900 players toever play for them.
so it's an incredible honor.
In fact, I went on to chat GPTthe other day.
(23:02):
I think 0.1% of professionalplayers ever get to play for the
British Irish Lions.
Like it's that unique, it's thatspecial.
So to be part of thatcollective, that group also lads
that you go to war with in thesix Nations, you strip and leave
that all to one side and formthis brand new team, form this
(23:23):
brand new identity and representthe best team possible.
So, yeah, the British IrishLions, 100%.
Arthur (23:32):
Who was your best mate on the British Irish Lions tour?
Ugo (23:36):
I had, I had a few, actually, there was, I shared a
room with Jamie Roberts thenight before the first test.
He's someone I, I saw inAustralia just recently.
Brian O'Driscoll, and got onwell with Ronan O’Gara.
I'd gone really well with, I, Iwasn't sure what I'd make of
Ronan.
I played against him a fewtimes.
(23:56):
He was, how should I put it?
Quite outspoken on the pitch.
Quite gobby.
but, awesome, awesome bloke.
Martin Williams, I really liked.
Shane Williams, Rob Kearney,Tommy Bowe, gosh, yeah, a load.
(24:16):
I've not mentioned any of theEnglish players'cause'cause I
knew them.
But yeah, meeting new guys from,from, from new teams.
yeah, that was super cool.
Arthur (24:25):
Thank you.
You played both sevens andfifteens for England.
Which did you enjoy playingmost?
Ugo (24:32):
Oh gosh.
Wow.
oh, what did I enjoy playingmost?
That's such a hard question.
'cause they're so different.
Sevens was my pathway intofifteens.
so I've got such fond memoriesof it playing at the Hong Kong
(24:52):
Sevens.
I played in the World Cup withthe sevens.
We, won loads of trophies,traveled around the world, had
such amazing, so many amazinglike life experiences.
But I think as a player growingup, fifteens is the aim.
And whilst Sevens was amazing,it was a festival.
It was this touring circus.
(25:12):
But then as a winger, you justwanna score tries and you can
score loads of tries, playingsevens.
But ultimately, I love thechallenge of fifteens.
I loved it as a all round game.
Yeah.
So I'm, I'm gonna say fifteens.
Arthur (25:27):
Did you go on any tours in the sevens?
Ugo (25:29):
Yeah, my first trip in fact was to Australia.
that was Brisbane.
So with sevens, Brisbane,Singapore, Hong Kong, Dubai,
South Africa, LA Paris, onmultiple different occasions.
Yeah, we traveled everywhere andit's so much fun.
(25:50):
So, and what was really coolabout it is when, so the
Premiership season starts inSeptember.
And the first seven tournaments,often December, in Dubai.
So as the weather starts to getreally rubbish here and you just
jet off and just chase the sun.
So we were just constantlychasing the sun around the
world, so I loved it.
Arthur (26:12):
What was, what was your favorite moment of your rugby
career?
Ugo (26:15):
winning the Premiership with Harlequins was so special.
That's, Harlequins the only clubI ever played for.
And to be part of the first teamto win a premiership title, you
know, that's legacy, that'shistory.
And to play with some of yourbest mates like lads you've just
grown up with from the age of 16all the way through to seeing
(26:37):
lads become men.
Get married, have children.
That band of brothers like thatwas so special.
And I think winning trophies inyour club side is so, immensely.
no, it feels, it feels deeplyspecial, feels really, really
intimate.
And so I think.
(26:58):
that, that was really special.
play for your country.
Of course your debut is great.
Playing for the Lions, amazing.
But I do look upon that, thatday, summer's day, in 2012
winning that title, was yeah,one of the greatest days I had
in rugby.
Arthur (27:12):
What do you miss most about playing rugby?
Ugo (27:15):
Being with the boys in the changing room.
that's, it's just so much fun.
it's so much fun.
I don't miss the game, playingthe game'cause I'm too old and
the game's too tough.
I don't miss feeling sore.
But being with the lads, Yeah.
Going, like you said, going towork together every single day
(27:38):
with some of your best mates is,is awesome.
away trips on the bus home,traveling and being part of
them.
I just miss the camaraderie.
That's, that's one of the, thebest things about playing the
game.
Arthur (27:51):
That's what, Leon Lloyd said as well.
Ugo (27:54):
It's the best.
It's the best.
Like you don't.
We are just big kids.
We are just big kids.
And being able to imagine beingable to go to work every day
with some of your best mates,like getting changed to go to
work and putting on a vest andshorts and just heading off to
train like it's, yeah, I lovejust spending time with the
(28:14):
boys.
It's so much fun.
Arthur (28:16):
Thank you.
If you could have your rugbycareer all over again.
What position would you chooseto play?
Ugo (28:23):
I loved playing on the Wing.
I did love playing the Wing, butif I had to choose another
position, I'd love to playoutside Center.
I played it a little bit forHarlequins and I enjoyed it, but
if I could play 13 and you justso involved in the action,
defense and attack, it's it's agreat pillared position.
(28:45):
It is part of the spine of theteam.
So yeah, maybe outside center.
Arthur (28:50):
Thank you.
How did you go from a rugbyplayer to a TV presenter?
Ugo (28:56):
I have not a clue! It's a really good question.
I always enjoyed the media whenI played rugby.
I loved the opportunity forpeople to get to know you beyond
just your playing talent.
and then in my final couple ofyears, I actually started
commentating on lots of gamesand really enjoyed it and I
(29:18):
knew.
When I retired, I want to gointo a job that I just enjoyed.
That was the number one thing Iwanted to find.
I wanted to find a job that gaveme enjoyment,'cause my whole
rugby career, I had fun and Ienjoyed it.
So I remember the first game Icommentated on.
The only thing I wanted to knowis would I enjoy it?
(29:39):
And at the end of it, I thought,this is so much fun.
Like it gave me a real buzz.
And I always loved analysis.
I loved analyzing differentteams, different plays,
different systems, and justlearning about the game of
rugby.
And so being given theopportunity to do that was
really cool, but it's a wildlydifferent skill to play in
(30:00):
rugby.
Whilst loads of rugby playersknow the game, that's very
different to broadcasting on thegame.
So being able to communicate isone thing.
Being able to broadcast istotally different thing.
Being able to explain the gamesuccinctly and efficiently live
without mistakes.
That's really, really tough.
And so having this brand newchallenge, being able to learn a
(30:23):
brand new skill, and just beinggiven the opportunity to do it,
it's, I, I, I, I love the gameso much and it's given me so
much.
So I always say I've moved on,but not moved that far away.
So for me, it's a real honor.
To still be at games, to stillbe a part of it, to still feel
that live buzz.
(30:45):
but yeah, essentially it tooklots of hard work.
someone backing me, someone giveme an opportunity, and finding
something that I really enjoyed.
Arthur (30:54):
That's very interesting.
Thank you.
What surprised you most aboutworking in the media?
Ugo (31:00):
Oh, what surprised me most, I think the challenge of, So
close to the players, having tocriticise them is really tough.
really tough.
I think that surprised mebecause you, you just you don't
know what you don't know.
I didn't realise how difficultI'd find it.
(31:21):
Like the first.
My first major broadcasting gigwas working on the 2015 World
Cup where England got knockedoutta the group stages and then
having a microphone under yourchin being asked, how did
England do?
Or should the coach still be thecoach?
Should the captain still be thecaptain?
(31:41):
And you're like.
Oh my gosh, I didn't realise I'dhave to wrestle and, and I, I, I
should have known and I shouldhave maybe been better prepared,
but still nothing prepares youfor that.
There's guys I was in a changingroom with three months ago.
I'm now having to criticise onnational telly.
That was really tough and thatwas definitely a big challenge.
(32:05):
And the other thing that,surprised me, which is a skill,
once again, you, I've learnedis.
It's not what you know is whatyou can say.
We often have a lot ofinformation, but often lots of
the information you have, youdefinitely can't tell people.
So trying to sift through all ofthat.
(32:26):
So yeah, there's been variousdifferent challenges and a
couple of those have reallysurprised me.
Arthur (32:31):
Wow, thank you.
And if it's okay, could wequickly do a quick, fire round?
Ugo (32:36):
Yeah, of course.
Arthur (32:37):
So what was your favorite match of your career?
Ugo (32:41):
Third test, British and Ice Lions 2009.
it's the final game of thattour.
We won it and I scored a cooltry.
Arthur (32:50):
What was your, who was your favorite player growing up?
Ugo (32:53):
Jonah Lomu, what a legend.
Played on the wing.
Absolutely massive.
And I think Rugby's firstsuperstar.
Arthur (33:00):
Have you ever met Jonah Lomu?
Ugo (33:02):
I have, I have.
He sadly passed away, but it wasreally cool to meet him.
Someone who I idolised as ayoung, young lads wanted to be
like, never got anywhere nearhis level or his skill, but
yeah, really, really cool tohave met him.
Arthur (33:17):
And after you score a try, what would you say was your
favorite celebration?
Ugo (33:23):
I never had a celebration like a Henry Pollock for
example, or, Chris Ashton withthe Ash Splash.
It, it was just, I wasn't evencontrol of my body.
I was like so pumped up fromscoring a try that I'd just
throw my arms in the air or justshout to the crowd or turn
around and jump.
And my teammates, I wish I had acool celebration, which I cons,
(33:46):
constantly did.
But yeah, it was more an anemotional response than
anything.
Arthur (33:52):
It's no basketball thrower.
Ugo (33:55):
See, I was never that cool.
I wish I was.
I wish I was cool where Iactually had a celebration that
people remembered, but no, no, Iwasn't that cool.
Unfortunately,
Arthur (34:04):
Thank you.
And if you could be anybody inthe world for one day, who would
you be?
Ugo (34:10):
I'd be Bukayo Saka so I could play for Arsenal.
The Star boy, that would bereally cool.
Yeah, I'd be Saka.
Arthur (34:18):
Thank you and I wanna say thank you so much for
bringing our podcast.
I really appreciate you takingyour time, Ugo,
Ugo (34:27):
No.
Arthur, you've been amazing,great questions.
Thanks so much for having me.
I, I've really enjoyed it.
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