June 3, 2025 • 11 mins
In this special episode of Sales Pipeline Radio from the Forrester B2B Summit 2025 marketplace floor, Matt spoke with Kerry Penny, SVP, Global Head of Brand and Content at Valtech.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Heinz (00:16):
All right, back live on the show floor.
We're at B2B Summit fromForrester at the marketplace.
Just so excited that, Forrester gaveme this opportunity to be here today.
Very excited for the conversationswe've had so far, and really excited
to be talking to Kerry Penny.
She's the SVP, global Head ofBrand and Content at Valtech.
Kerry, thanks so much for being here.
Kerry Penny (00:34):
Awesome.
Thanks Matt.
Matt Heinz (00:35):
I'm excited for this conversation for a lot of reasons.
We were talking before we started aboutwhat are some of the angles we could have?
And each one of these Ithink is really important.
You were in a session earliertoday with someone that we
had on the show earlier today.
Oh, funny as well.
And one of the things he brought upis the concept of the four P's and
the fact that we're really missing areally critical P as part of marketing's
prioritization moving forward.
(00:56):
And the P is not prioritization.
It is.
Kerry Penny (00:57):
Purpose.
Matt Heinz (00:58):
All right.
Can you talk about whatyou heard there today?
Kerry Penny (01:00):
Yeah.
There was really one line thatjust super resonated with me.
Mm-hmm.
It was the purpose of marketing.
Mm-hmm.
Is growth, period.
Another P period.
Mm-hmm.
And sometimes it's easy to forget that itis that simple when you break it down to
it, the purpose of marketing is growth.
And I loved that.
Matt Heinz (01:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was here earlier talking aboutthat as well, and I think that
can be such a unifying thing.
I. If you can say like, what are wereally about and how does that manifest?
And like every company here has limitedmoney, limited budget, limited resources.
And so strategy is what it's choosing.
It's figuring out which of thosethings you're going to invest in.
So if we say our objective is growth,that could be different things at
(01:38):
different stages of the business as well.
If you're early stage,net new is where it's at.
As you get bigger, investingin retention and expansion, it
becomes more important as well.
Kerry Penny (01:49):
Definitely.
And I think it's alsoa really good uniter.
Within teams.
Yeah, so especially at things likeForrester's B2B Summit, you hear a lot
about the challenges between working withmarketing, between sales, between product,
but if everybody's aligned that we allhave the same goal, which is growth.
Mm-hmm.
It is so much easier for usto have an aligned vision.
(02:10):
We can work together, we can share data.
We are all headed in theright direction together.
It breaks down those silos.
Matt Heinz (02:16):
So what some people will hear that, and what they'll
hear is that means I need pipeline.
That means I need leads.
So like focusing on a purpose,focus on growth can be a force
for good and be a force for evil.
And evil is saying, allwe care about is MQLs.
Mm-hmm.
And we're talking here today with someonewho owns brand and content for a company.
So help me understand like thatbalance we need between brand and
(02:37):
demand that balanced marketing effortthat is really optimized for growth.
Kerry Penny (02:42):
Absolutely.
If we are really paying attentionto the changing buying behaviors.
If we are going to havegrowth as the end goal.
Mm-hmm.
There's so much that leadsup to that and buying.
Behaviors are changing whatpeople want, the preferences they
have, the options that they have.
I mean, we're sittinghere on the market floor.
There are so many options that existand so in order for them to choose you.
(03:04):
You need trust.
Mm-hmm.
You need credibility,you need a relationship.
Yeah.
And that's where content comes into play.
So stop gating your very best content.
And it's not just to buildrelationships with people and
to build trust and credibility.
Mm-hmm.
But it is to build trust and credibilitywith the robots, because AI has to be
able to crawl your very best contentand bring it into their models.
(03:26):
I love looking at the reasoningmodel and opening it up and saying,
what were all of the different sitesthat you went to and decided were
credible to answer my question?
And then I can make that decisionon whether I think that that
was a credible site as well.
I want my site to show up on that listand if I've gated all of my best stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Because I think that an MQLis the most important thing.
I've lost the game.
Matt Heinz (03:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that is easier said thandone in some organizations.
Totally right.
And I get like even talking to people herewho have been CMOs and have moved into
CRO roles that understand the value ofmarketing the way we're talking about it.
You start to focus on that monthly number,you start to focus on that quarterly board
meeting or that quarterly earnings call.
And I get it, but if you only focus onthe short term, you will continue to pay
(04:10):
a premium forever to build that levelof growth that just isn't sustainable.
Kerry Penny (04:14):
Yeah, agreed.
A hundred percent.
I do understand the struggleof moving past that number.
I would challenge people that if you aretracking MQLs and you feel committed Yeah.
To the MQL Yeah.
Do the work to understand what'shappening with those MQLs.
What is the actual conversion?
If we go back to the purpose again,marketing's purpose is growth.
(04:36):
We are failing that purpose.
If all we're doing is pattingourselves on the back, because
our MQL number is really high.
We've done our job high five, pass it off.
It's not our problem anymore.
If you go back to the shared visionof growth, if we aren't growing, if
you're not seeing the pipeline grow, ifyou're not seeing acceleration through
the pipeline as fast as it should behappening, we're not doing our jobs.
(04:56):
And I would argue that the focuson MQL is what's holding us back
as a marketing organization.
Matt Heinz (05:02):
Oh, preach on that.
We're talking today on the showfloor at Forrester B2B Summit.
Got Kerry Penny here.
She's the senior vice president, globalhead of brand and content at Valtech.
Can we talk about brand a little bit?
Yeah.
Because I think this conferenceis as, as great as it is.
It very much is a demand centricconference, a lot of the topics,
it's about the buying journey, it'sabout building and managing pipeline.
(05:22):
You talk to 10 people in this room andthey might have 10 different definitions
of what brand is and how to defineand activate that in an organization.
What does that looklike for you at Valtech?
Kerry Penny (05:31):
Yeah.
I think the easy definition that peoplego back to is always, how does it look?
What is your website like,what is your logo, colors?
That is just like the basics of brand.
Yep.
To me, the real definitionof brand is how do you feel?
Mm-hmm.
And we work in a services business,and I think this is true for anybody,
but particularly in services,it's how do the people that work
(05:52):
at that company make you feel?
How does the buying process make you feel?
There was a really great statearlier today in the keynote
address that said 81% of peopleare disappointed in the purchasing
process with the winning vendor.
I mean, that is, wow.
That's a problem.
(06:12):
That is a problem.
And that's something can it one more
Matt Heinz (06:14):
time for the people in the back?
Kerry Penny (06:14):
Yes.
81%. That is wild for me.
And so that's something I thinkthat brand comes into play.
It's what is the experiencethat somebody has?
Have you focused on buyer enablement?
Really understood the buyer and theexperience that they'll have with you.
That's your brand and your legacy.
Yeah.
Matt Heinz (06:32):
Yeah.
And that is everything, right?
I mean, Ann Handley, who talks a lotabout content and writing, 'cause
everything the light touches is content.
Mm-hmm.
And so every part of the experiencesomeone has with you, it's not just
the email they send, it's not just theway your booth looks as we're staring
out here, across, the marketplace.
It's the interactions, right?
So think about all the time andattention that goes into the
collateral and everything else.
What about the conversations?
(06:53):
Mm-hmm.
What about the roles of people?
What are you doing withevery one of those moments?
Latane from 6sense was talkingabout this earlier, about like
all those little details matter.
Right, and you have to get thedetails right so that the overall
experience comes across asdifferentiated in dare I say, magical.
Kerry Penny (07:09):
And I think this is another great example of brand
and where it comes into play.
So the experience you have onthis showroom floor, talking to a
representative from the company, thequestions they ask you, the way that
they understand your journey and yourchallenges, how they describe the product
to you, what you're gonna get out of it.
It should be identical to the experienceyou have when you're reading that
same type of content on your website.
(07:30):
Yeah.
When you're interacting withit on social, that is brand,
Matt Heinz (07:33):
so this gets harder.
If you're a services business,
Kerry Penny (07:37):
it is harder
Matt Heinz (07:37):
because if you're a product company, you can engineer a product
experience to be consistent for everybody.
But if the product is people, peoplearen't always as consistent as you want.
How do you manage a consistent experiencein that kind of an environment?
Kerry Penny (07:53):
Yeah.
So there's a couple different experiences.
There's, at the very top of thefunnel, just how do we describe
ourselves as an organization.
Right.
So I recently stepped into this roleand the very first thing that we did was
actually write out the narrative mm-hmm.
Which didn't exist, but write it ina way that sellers understand it.
Mm-hmm.
And then.
Can help our clients understand it.
And we rolled out a growth academy.
We just rolled it out.
(08:14):
We have everybody go through the trainingwho's on growth or delivery, right?
Because it's not just the sellers,it's the people delivering the
work, the consultants on the ground.
And they have to learn the narrative,put it into their own words, record
themselves, giving that presentation.
We give them a pieceof very exclusive swag.
So it's an exciting thing to do, but it'sthose basic programs to help you control.
You do have to put the guardrails inplace to teach people about the brand.
Matt Heinz (08:37):
Well, and it's understanding the brand and also being able to speak the
language that you want them at differentstages of the buying journey when you've
got a services team that also is in oneway or another part of the sales process.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
That's a whole nother unique thing totry to manage, and I don't think people
always understand how different that is.
To manage that in a services business.
Kerry Penny (08:55):
Yeah.
And a big part of that isunderstanding the buyer.
I was recently at a meeting andwas hearing people give their own
perspectives about the buyer, howlong things take, what, people
need, where their challenges lie.
And it was amazing to me thedifference of opinion that existed
across groups, across regions, acrosstenure within the organization.
And so I saw it as an opportunityto go out and say, we need to create
(09:15):
our own state of the buyer report.
Mm-hmm.
And I think it's important forbusinesses to step back and even in
marketing and brand roles, to have thatstrategic place to say, I'm not just
tactic driven, I'm bringing the voiceof the buyer back into the business.
Right.
Just as I'm bringing the voiceof the business out to the buyer.
So really document for everybody.
These are the facts.
Mm-hmm.
These are the facts of who we're sellingto and what they need from us, and
(09:37):
how we need to deliver so that we'reall operating in the same direction
towards that main purpose of growth.
Matt Heinz (09:44):
I think it's clear to most people here that robots are gonna
start doing more and more of the workover time, and I expect that services
businesses might be at the forefront ofteaching all of us how to really lean
in and leverage the human conditionand the unique human experience that
can differentiate you versus someoneelse in the buying experience.
(10:07):
You mentioned this a little bit beforewe got going, talk a little bit about
how important it is to fully optimizethe human as part of the experience.
Kerry Penny (10:14):
Yeah.
So especially here where we're hearingabout AI and the impact and how fast it's
all coming, every marketer is going tohave this super power behind them, this
AI superpower, we are gonna be creatingcontent faster, more personalized,
you're gonna have every tool in the worldconnected, sending everything together.
And if all of us have that.
What is the differentiator inhow that content lands, right?
(10:36):
And the experience thatsomebody's having with you.
So it's almost like the human EQ, thecompany EQ, as you are interacting
is your differentiator now.
Mm-hmm.
You can create the very best contentin the world, but so is everybody else
because they're all using AI to do it.
You can be the fastest, butnow so is everybody else.
They're all using AI to be fast.
But can you be the people that understandyour buyer the very best and have
(10:58):
that true, genuine trust, credibility,connection and relationship with them that
will differentiate you and your brand.
Matt Heinz (11:05):
Love it.
Kerry Penny, SVP and Global HeadBrand and Content at Valtech,
thanks so much for being here.
Kerry Penny (11:11):
Thanks, Matt.
Have a good one.
Matt Heinz (11:12):
You too.
All right, back live on the show floor.
We're at B2B Summit fromForrester at the marketplace.
Just so excited that, Forrester gaveme this opportunity to be here today.
Very excited for the conversationswe've had so far, and really excited
to be talking to Kerry Penny.
She's the SVP, global Head ofBrand and Content at Valtech.
Kerry, thanks so much for being here.
Kerry Penny (00:34):
Awesome.
Thanks Matt.
Matt Heinz (00:35):
I'm excited for this conversation for a lot of reasons.
We were talking before we started aboutwhat are some of the angles we could have?
And each one of these Ithink is really important.
You were in a session earliertoday with someone that we
had on the show earlier today.
Oh, funny as well.
And one of the things he brought upis the concept of the four P's and
the fact that we're really missing areally critical P as part of marketing's
prioritization moving forward.
(00:56):
And the P is not prioritization.
It is.
Kerry Penny (00:57):
Purpose.
Matt Heinz (00:58):
All right.
Can you talk about whatyou heard there today?
Kerry Penny (01:00):
Yeah.
There was really one line thatjust super resonated with me.
Mm-hmm.
It was the purpose of marketing.
Mm-hmm.
Is growth, period.
Another P period.
Mm-hmm.
And sometimes it's easy to forget that itis that simple when you break it down to
it, the purpose of marketing is growth.
And I loved that.
Matt Heinz (01:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was here earlier talking aboutthat as well, and I think that
can be such a unifying thing.
I. If you can say like, what are wereally about and how does that manifest?
And like every company here has limitedmoney, limited budget, limited resources.
And so strategy is what it's choosing.
It's figuring out which of thosethings you're going to invest in.
So if we say our objective is growth,that could be different things at
(01:38):
different stages of the business as well.
If you're early stage,net new is where it's at.
As you get bigger, investingin retention and expansion, it
becomes more important as well.
Kerry Penny (01:49):
Definitely.
And I think it's alsoa really good uniter.
Within teams.
Yeah, so especially at things likeForrester's B2B Summit, you hear a lot
about the challenges between working withmarketing, between sales, between product,
but if everybody's aligned that we allhave the same goal, which is growth.
Mm-hmm.
It is so much easier for usto have an aligned vision.
(02:10):
We can work together, we can share data.
We are all headed in theright direction together.
It breaks down those silos.
Matt Heinz (02:16):
So what some people will hear that, and what they'll
hear is that means I need pipeline.
That means I need leads.
So like focusing on a purpose,focus on growth can be a force
for good and be a force for evil.
And evil is saying, allwe care about is MQLs.
Mm-hmm.
And we're talking here today with someonewho owns brand and content for a company.
So help me understand like thatbalance we need between brand and
(02:37):
demand that balanced marketing effortthat is really optimized for growth.
Kerry Penny (02:42):
Absolutely.
If we are really paying attentionto the changing buying behaviors.
If we are going to havegrowth as the end goal.
Mm-hmm.
There's so much that leadsup to that and buying.
Behaviors are changing whatpeople want, the preferences they
have, the options that they have.
I mean, we're sittinghere on the market floor.
There are so many options that existand so in order for them to choose you.
(03:04):
You need trust.
Mm-hmm.
You need credibility,you need a relationship.
Yeah.
And that's where content comes into play.
So stop gating your very best content.
And it's not just to buildrelationships with people and
to build trust and credibility.
Mm-hmm.
But it is to build trust and credibilitywith the robots, because AI has to be
able to crawl your very best contentand bring it into their models.
(03:26):
I love looking at the reasoningmodel and opening it up and saying,
what were all of the different sitesthat you went to and decided were
credible to answer my question?
And then I can make that decisionon whether I think that that
was a credible site as well.
I want my site to show up on that listand if I've gated all of my best stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Because I think that an MQLis the most important thing.
I've lost the game.
Matt Heinz (03:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that is easier said thandone in some organizations.
Totally right.
And I get like even talking to people herewho have been CMOs and have moved into
CRO roles that understand the value ofmarketing the way we're talking about it.
You start to focus on that monthly number,you start to focus on that quarterly board
meeting or that quarterly earnings call.
And I get it, but if you only focus onthe short term, you will continue to pay
(04:10):
a premium forever to build that levelof growth that just isn't sustainable.
Kerry Penny (04:14):
Yeah, agreed.
A hundred percent.
I do understand the struggleof moving past that number.
I would challenge people that if you aretracking MQLs and you feel committed Yeah.
To the MQL Yeah.
Do the work to understand what'shappening with those MQLs.
What is the actual conversion?
If we go back to the purpose again,marketing's purpose is growth.
(04:36):
We are failing that purpose.
If all we're doing is pattingourselves on the back, because
our MQL number is really high.
We've done our job high five, pass it off.
It's not our problem anymore.
If you go back to the shared visionof growth, if we aren't growing, if
you're not seeing the pipeline grow, ifyou're not seeing acceleration through
the pipeline as fast as it should behappening, we're not doing our jobs.
(04:56):
And I would argue that the focuson MQL is what's holding us back
as a marketing organization.
Matt Heinz (05:02):
Oh, preach on that.
We're talking today on the showfloor at Forrester B2B Summit.
Got Kerry Penny here.
She's the senior vice president, globalhead of brand and content at Valtech.
Can we talk about brand a little bit?
Yeah.
Because I think this conferenceis as, as great as it is.
It very much is a demand centricconference, a lot of the topics,
it's about the buying journey, it'sabout building and managing pipeline.
(05:22):
You talk to 10 people in this room andthey might have 10 different definitions
of what brand is and how to defineand activate that in an organization.
What does that looklike for you at Valtech?
Kerry Penny (05:31):
Yeah.
I think the easy definition that peoplego back to is always, how does it look?
What is your website like,what is your logo, colors?
That is just like the basics of brand.
Yep.
To me, the real definitionof brand is how do you feel?
Mm-hmm.
And we work in a services business,and I think this is true for anybody,
but particularly in services,it's how do the people that work
(05:52):
at that company make you feel?
How does the buying process make you feel?
There was a really great statearlier today in the keynote
address that said 81% of peopleare disappointed in the purchasing
process with the winning vendor.
I mean, that is, wow.
That's a problem.
(06:12):
That is a problem.
And that's something can it one more
Matt Heinz (06:14):
time for the people in the back?
Kerry Penny (06:14):
Yes.
81%. That is wild for me.
And so that's something I thinkthat brand comes into play.
It's what is the experiencethat somebody has?
Have you focused on buyer enablement?
Really understood the buyer and theexperience that they'll have with you.
That's your brand and your legacy.
Yeah.
Matt Heinz (06:32):
Yeah.
And that is everything, right?
I mean, Ann Handley, who talks a lotabout content and writing, 'cause
everything the light touches is content.
Mm-hmm.
And so every part of the experiencesomeone has with you, it's not just
the email they send, it's not just theway your booth looks as we're staring
out here, across, the marketplace.
It's the interactions, right?
So think about all the time andattention that goes into the
collateral and everything else.
What about the conversations?
(06:53):
Mm-hmm.
What about the roles of people?
What are you doing withevery one of those moments?
Latane from 6sense was talkingabout this earlier, about like
all those little details matter.
Right, and you have to get thedetails right so that the overall
experience comes across asdifferentiated in dare I say, magical.
Kerry Penny (07:09):
And I think this is another great example of brand
and where it comes into play.
So the experience you have onthis showroom floor, talking to a
representative from the company, thequestions they ask you, the way that
they understand your journey and yourchallenges, how they describe the product
to you, what you're gonna get out of it.
It should be identical to the experienceyou have when you're reading that
same type of content on your website.
(07:30):
Yeah.
When you're interacting withit on social, that is brand,
Matt Heinz (07:33):
so this gets harder.
If you're a services business,
Kerry Penny (07:37):
it is harder
Matt Heinz (07:37):
because if you're a product company, you can engineer a product
experience to be consistent for everybody.
But if the product is people, peoplearen't always as consistent as you want.
How do you manage a consistent experiencein that kind of an environment?
Kerry Penny (07:53):
Yeah.
So there's a couple different experiences.
There's, at the very top of thefunnel, just how do we describe
ourselves as an organization.
Right.
So I recently stepped into this roleand the very first thing that we did was
actually write out the narrative mm-hmm.
Which didn't exist, but write it ina way that sellers understand it.
Mm-hmm.
And then.
Can help our clients understand it.
And we rolled out a growth academy.
We just rolled it out.
(08:14):
We have everybody go through the trainingwho's on growth or delivery, right?
Because it's not just the sellers,it's the people delivering the
work, the consultants on the ground.
And they have to learn the narrative,put it into their own words, record
themselves, giving that presentation.
We give them a pieceof very exclusive swag.
So it's an exciting thing to do, but it'sthose basic programs to help you control.
You do have to put the guardrails inplace to teach people about the brand.
Matt Heinz (08:37):
Well, and it's understanding the brand and also being able to speak the
language that you want them at differentstages of the buying journey when you've
got a services team that also is in oneway or another part of the sales process.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
That's a whole nother unique thing totry to manage, and I don't think people
always understand how different that is.
To manage that in a services business.
Kerry Penny (08:55):
Yeah.
And a big part of that isunderstanding the buyer.
I was recently at a meeting andwas hearing people give their own
perspectives about the buyer, howlong things take, what, people
need, where their challenges lie.
And it was amazing to me thedifference of opinion that existed
across groups, across regions, acrosstenure within the organization.
And so I saw it as an opportunityto go out and say, we need to create
(09:15):
our own state of the buyer report.
Mm-hmm.
And I think it's important forbusinesses to step back and even in
marketing and brand roles, to have thatstrategic place to say, I'm not just
tactic driven, I'm bringing the voiceof the buyer back into the business.
Right.
Just as I'm bringing the voiceof the business out to the buyer.
So really document for everybody.
These are the facts.
Mm-hmm.
These are the facts of who we're sellingto and what they need from us, and
(09:37):
how we need to deliver so that we'reall operating in the same direction
towards that main purpose of growth.
Matt Heinz (09:44):
I think it's clear to most people here that robots are gonna
start doing more and more of the workover time, and I expect that services
businesses might be at the forefront ofteaching all of us how to really lean
in and leverage the human conditionand the unique human experience that
can differentiate you versus someoneelse in the buying experience.
(10:07):
You mentioned this a little bit beforewe got going, talk a little bit about
how important it is to fully optimizethe human as part of the experience.
Kerry Penny (10:14):
Yeah.
So especially here where we're hearingabout AI and the impact and how fast it's
all coming, every marketer is going tohave this super power behind them, this
AI superpower, we are gonna be creatingcontent faster, more personalized,
you're gonna have every tool in the worldconnected, sending everything together.
And if all of us have that.
What is the differentiator inhow that content lands, right?
(10:36):
And the experience thatsomebody's having with you.
So it's almost like the human EQ, thecompany EQ, as you are interacting
is your differentiator now.
Mm-hmm.
You can create the very best contentin the world, but so is everybody else
because they're all using AI to do it.
You can be the fastest, butnow so is everybody else.
They're all using AI to be fast.
But can you be the people that understandyour buyer the very best and have
(10:58):
that true, genuine trust, credibility,connection and relationship with them that
will differentiate you and your brand.
Matt Heinz (11:05):
Love it.
Kerry Penny, SVP and Global HeadBrand and Content at Valtech,
thanks so much for being here.
Kerry Penny (11:11):
Thanks, Matt.
Have a good one.
Matt Heinz (11:12):
You too.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
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