May 8, 2025 • 15 mins
In this special episode of Sales Pipeline Radio from the Forrester B2B Summit 2025 marketplace floor, Matt spoke with Sara Larsen, CMO, and Kaylee Haun, ABM Manager at Wolters Kluwer Health.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Heinz (00:16):
All right, we are back on the show floor, live at Forrester B2B Summit.
Just super excited.
Thanks so much again to Forresterfor making this possible.
We've been getting some greatguests on Sales Pipeline Radio.
Just in the last day and a half.
We've had a bunch of analysts.
We've had a number of CMOs reallyon the cutting edge of leading go to
market teams, and been really excitedto feature a number of B2B ROI award
(00:36):
winners, and excited to have a couplehere today from Wolters Kluwer.
We've got Sara Larsen, theChief Marketing Officer.
And Kaylee Haun the ABMmanager for Wolters Kluwer.
So thank you both for being here.
Sara Larsen (00:47):
Thank you.
Kaylee Haun (00:47):
Thank you for having us.
Matt Heinz (00:48):
Sara, you are fresh off this main stage in a room, just two
doors down talking about the awardand highlighting why you were there.
So first of all, congratulationsand maybe kick it off with,
why are you on stage today?
Like, what were we promoting and what arethe things you guys are doing so well?
Sara Larsen (01:04):
Why I was on stage.
That's a great question.
So thanks for Forrester.
They can answer that one, but I cantell you what I was talking about.
Matt Heinz (01:10):
There you go.
Sara Larsen (01:10):
And we've had a really exciting couple of years within
marketing at Wolters Kluwer Health.
So just for context, so Wolters KluwerHealth supports expert solutions that
help your doctors, your clinicians,your care teams make decisions about
your health, make sure that you havethe right treatment and care plans.
And those solutions, ifyou go to the doctor, it's
(01:32):
probably eight times outta 10.
They're using one of our solutionsto help make sure that you're
getting the best care possible.
So one of the challenges that we'vehad, we've got great products, we have
incredible customers, wonderful usersthat's reflected in some really great
numbers like our NPS, our brand awareness.
But one of the challenges that we've beenhaving is the healthcare system at large
(01:56):
has been experiencing a lot of change.
Mm-hmm.
As you may know, for the past five yearsthink where you were five years ago
today, probably locked down somewhere and.
That hit health systems really hard.
Yeah.
Yep.
So a lot of financial challenges, staffingchallenges care and care coordination, and
then just the continuous transformationof IT within health organizations
(02:20):
and the spend levels around IT.
So for us our solutions are nowcompeting with different dollars.
Mm-hmm.
A different mix of dollars.
And so while we're beloved by ourusers, the buying committee is shifting.
Mm-hmm.
So there's different people onthe buying committee and they're
looking for value in different ways.
(02:40):
So yes, they're excited that we havethe best solutions and content to help
clinicians, but they're also lookingfor what does this mean to help me
solve some of my financial problems?
Right?
How does it help me withmy staffing shortages?
How does this fit into my IT stackand make me more of a productive
and efficient organization?
Right?
And so we needed to figure outhow to talk to those folks.
(03:00):
Mm-hmm.
We lovingly call themour nonclinical buyers.
Yeah.
As opposed to the clinical people.
But that was a good distinction for usto kind of understand that there were
different folks that we needed to talk to.
And so getting that baselineunderstanding developed a whole set of
programs that we've been working on.
I call it sort of the pieces to thepuzzle over the past couple years.
Matt Heinz (03:23):
Love it.
And I love a mature organization wherewe can talk about not just net new
acquisition, but really putting a focuson turning that buying committee into
really a user and customer committeewhere you have some people where you're
trying to reinforce the why and earnrenewals and earn repeat business, but
there's always that land and expand motionwhere that committee gets more complex.
And yet I think a lot of companiesthey focus on the opportunity, they
(03:46):
focus on the account, they continueto single thread those deals.
So Kaylee, I would love to have youtalk about the change management
required to bring that to yourprograms, to bring that buying committee
mentality to this Pipeline production.
Kaylee Haun (04:01):
Yes, of course.
As far as our ABM program goesit was really important that
we were aligned with sales.
Mm-hmm.
And we were focusing on thosesales plays that were gonna drive
the needle to make sure that ourcampaigns had the proper segmentation.
And after that was done really making surethat all of our data was very clean in
the system before starting any programsfrom the account and the contact level.
Matt Heinz (04:23):
Yep.
Yeah and the data is such animportant part of this, right?
I think a lot of companies that havegood intentions that don't manage
the data, that don't have a great opsfoundation behind that really fall down.
Talk about some of thethings that went well.
As you work through this program,and then let's talk about some
things that didn't go well.
I think sometimes we learn as muchfrom the dumpster fires, and I'm not
saying whatever you're gonna shareas a dumpster fire, but, I feel like
(04:44):
in most cases, like the things thatdidn't go well sometimes teach us more.
And I appreciate you beingopen with some of those things.
So just what give us some on both sides.
Kaylee Haun (04:51):
Of course.
First of all, I think the thingthat went really well is that
we don't do ABM in a silo.
We make sure that it is part of ouroverall demand program and fits in with
our other campaigns and that we're usingour messaging and our persona research and
our buying group research and all of ourcore content pieces are integrated into
our ABM programs which really helps justmake sure that our message is consistent
(05:14):
across, all of our marketing that we do.
Matt Heinz (05:16):
And when you think about an account-based program I think for
the companies that do this well, it'snot a campaign, it's a culture change.
So talk about the origin of this andmaybe Sara, talk about the conversations
you had to have at the peer level withyour leaders and especially your sales
and CS, and go to market counterpartsto make sure they didn't see this
as just another quarterly campaign.
This is a new way we are going to market.
(05:38):
For the foreseeable future.
Sara Larsen (05:40):
Yeah, it was definitely a mind shift, right?
So once we got understanding and buy-inaround the buying committee the type
of messaging that needed to really getin front of those folks, there was a
question of how do we do that best?
And so a couple of things were happening.
One, we're transitioning fromproduct campaigns to buyer campaigns.
(06:01):
And that distinction was prettyprofound because if you think about
who's the buyer, the next question iswhat account are they with and what's
our objective around that account?
And so a big piece of the cultureand Kaylee talked to this around
the segmentations or understandingthe objectives of the segments and
the accounts within those segments.
So we've got a big renewal base.
(06:22):
But even within that, there's differentobjectives around the renewal.
It can be a big complex customer,it can be a smaller health system.
We could have a set of customers thatused to be customers and they didn't
renew and are trying to win them back.
And so taking more of that customer viewof where they are in their relationship
with us was really foundational tosetting that culture around ABM.
(06:46):
So getting out of the let's pumpanother product campaign out there
and who's opening the email to, let'slook at our accounts that we need
to renew two quarters out, and who'sengaging in the buying committee around
what types of content and are theyseeing the value that our sales folks
won't need to come in and talk aboutat the point of time and renewal so
(07:07):
that we're moving that deal along?
That's a big mental model shift.
Matt Heinz (07:11):
I have found that getting sales and marketing together
aligned on programs like this ishard enough, but we've made progress.
I feel like, asgo-to-market leaders there.
I think that we are further behindon getting CS and account management
teams to come along on that as well.
And you can build programs, you can buildplaybooks, but unless those are executed
and reinforced and done consistently,these programs tend to fall down.
(07:32):
Talk about that alignment internally.
And it's one thing to do jazzhands at a board meeting or jazz
hands at a kickoff, but then yougotta make that work on Tuesday.
So help me understand like whatwas the path to try to get there?
And I'm not assuming it's perfect,but what are the stages and the
things that you found to be mosthelpful to make progress on that?
Kaylee Haun (07:50):
Yes.
So I think the amount of data that we getfrom account-based marketing and being
able to see the insights of the activitythat the accounts are doing and the types
of content that they're engaging withhas been really vital to our CX team.
Yeah.
And being able to help them prepare fortheir conversations with the customer
and understand their customers better.
Kind of hand feeding that data,sharing what does it mean?
(08:13):
What are we seeing really gotthem on board for the program.
And the ABM as a whole,
Matt Heinz (08:19):
Was there pushback, was there a time when they said, because
what I've heard from other companiesis, especially with CS, they're
like, we don't need marketing's help.
We're good on this.
Right.
And those things we used tohear on the sales side saying
like, I don't touch my accounts.
I'm good.
Was there friction?
Was there resistance early on?
Kaylee Haun (08:36):
Maybe, um, I think, I think it's always, you
Matt Heinz (08:39):
don't, it's always on the dirty laundry here.
The answer's almost always Yes.
Right.
Sara Larsen (08:42):
I don't think it was resistance, like,
oh, ABM's a really bad idea.
Right, right.
I think it was more along the linesof, okay, but what's the value?
If I'm a sales leader or directorsalesperson, what's the value
of spending my time on this?
Yeah.
What's in it for me?
What am I gonna get out of this?
And so we've worked really hard totake as Kaylee talked about, that data
(09:03):
and, those insights and get them intoreally targeted discrete programs that
a salesperson or a CX person can use.
For example, doing account dossier, right?
Right.
Breaking it down into, here areyour top renewals next quarter.
Here are your top white space accounts.
Here's information that isuseful to you in your meetings.
Competitive insight.
(09:24):
That was great.
They love, that's like gold, right?
Like they're looking at the competitor.
You better get in there.
They love that.
It was like music to myears a few weeks ago.
I was on one of our priority renewalmeetings with our CEO and the head of
sales started talking about, well, andmarketing came and they told us that this
account is looking at our competitors.
And that insight was great because weknew where to go and how to position,
(09:48):
and it was like, whoa, it's working.
Mm-hmm.
You know we've infiltratedthe system here and.
That's because we are using theright data at the right time.
That was useful to the sales organization.
Right?
Matt Heinz (09:59):
We're live on the marketplace floor here at Forrester,
B2B Summit with Sara Larsen, KayleeHaun, both from Wolters Kluwer
Health B2B ROI award winners in 2025.
So you get on stage, you get recognized.
It's a lot of hard work toget there, to be recognized.
This is not a static place.
Right.
So what are some of the challenges youanticipate in terms of continuing to
build on this success in the year to come?
Kaylee Haun (10:21):
Yes.
So, we did have some learnings mm-hmm.
When rolling out our ABM program.
One of the main ones being making surethat your digital platforms are all set
up and interconnected appropriately.
And then with ABM I mean, your targetingneeds to be so precise because you
are going after individual buyinggroup members that maybe have a little
bit different messaging tailored tothem and different types of accounts.
(10:44):
And taking the time to do thosesetups correctly so that you can
measure and you can understand impact.
And as we continue to evolve our techstack and measurement framework I think
that is something that we're gonna havea big focus on going forward as well.
Matt Heinz (10:58):
I'd be curious to you answer that too, Sara.
Sara Larsen (11:00):
Yes.
I think if you were to ask me what'sthe headline of the year for a marketing
team one is integrated planning mm-hmm.
And bringing all of the insightsthat we have around the team into
one plan for our market segments.
Mm-hmm.
And so that sounds really easy.
Like, Hey, let's have one plan.
It's not, it's really hard, right?
Yeah.
And we are using the Forresterframework around that and thinking
(11:21):
about reputation and demand and customerengagement and sales enablement.
I'll tell you a littletales from the front.
I got to the point where we've got thislike monster spreadsheet for integrated
planning and I finally said, okay, programplanners are the only people with edit
access to this because we have to haveone control point around our plans.
Now that won't be ongoing.
(11:43):
We'll let other people get in the boat,but you need to get a control point
to get all of the plans, which areall great, but they could get siloed.
Right.
And so getting that into one place, sointegrated program planning, and then
that ties so tightly to your abilityto then measure and look at ROI.
So analytics we all have in marketingthis year an adoption target around
(12:05):
using our Power BI platform and usinganalytics and insight in whatever
your role is in marketing using thatinformation to make better decisions.
Matt Heinz (12:15):
Yeah I feel like especially at this conference, when
they highlight larger, more complexorganizations that have really embraced
the complexity of doing this well.
And so you get up on stage and youtalk about the examples of success
and alternate metrics you're gettingand behind that is a lot of work.
It's a lot of change, it's a lot ofsort of friction and there's points
of failure that happen along the way.
(12:36):
So let's talk to people thatare out there that wanna win
this award next year, right.
That are sitting here somewhereand you wanna win an award, but
you're talking about really drivingchange in your organization and
accelerating the impact of marketing.
How should they be thinking aboutthat, knowing that change is hard.
That change is friction, thatthe status quo inside our
organizations is incredibly powerful.
(12:57):
What advice would you give themon how to manage that journey?
Sara Larsen (13:00):
Well, I would say have a view of where you want to be.
Mm-hmm.
But don't worry if youdon't get there on day one.
So I kinda use this analogy of a puzzle.
You know, you open up the thousandpiece puzzle and you see like the
picture that's gonna happen at the end.
And maybe you start with finding thecorners and then maybe you put the edges
together, and then maybe you do a littlepiece of this, it's pieces of the puzzle
(13:22):
and it will eventually come together.
The key thing is that enough of the peoplein your organization understand what that
final picture could look like, or at leastbelieve that it could look like that.
Matt Heinz (13:34):
Yeah.
Sara Larsen (13:35):
And that you have that buy-in across the team.
Matt Heinz (13:38):
I think that vision of where you're going.
Whether it's an outcome, whether it'sa state for the organization, whether
it's a number of what you think you'regonna achieve, it could be a growth
number, it could be a savings number.
I talked earlier with JimWilliams, the firm Uptempo.
We're talking about connectingmarketing and planning together.
We're talking about a reduction inpaperwork, a reduction in time it takes
for planning and everyone can startto do the value translation of it.
(13:59):
It used to take us sevenmonths to plan for the year.
Now it takes us two and a half months.
Imagine all that reclaimed timeand what you could do with that.
Right, right.
So, Kaylee, love to hearyour answer as well.
You know, for all the work you'vedone to make this possible to put Sara
on stage, what advice would you givefor teams that are in the trenches.
Kaylee Haun (14:14):
Yeah, I would say track everything.
Matt Heinz (14:15):
Yeah.
Kaylee Haun (14:16):
All the data points that you have.
And a lot of those like anecdotalstories too can go a long way
in gaining momentum and gettingsomething done and getting people on
board with change or new processes.
The more data, you can pulltogether and track the better story
you have to share with the org.
Matt Heinz (14:31):
Absolutely,
Sara Larsen (14:32):
And I think that piece on stories is really important.
We spend a lot of time in marketingtalking about Pipeline, Pipeline leads,
Pipeline, and Pipeline is the key aligningmetric between marketing and sales.
Mm-hmm.
So that is the most importantthing to be talking about.
It's the name of your show.
Matt Heinz (14:46):
It is,
Sara Larsen (14:46):
it's the name of your show.
However, there are a lot of otherdata points that you can use.
To compel, for example I get askedabout Pipeline, but I almost get
asked more often about our reach.
Yep.
What's our nonclinical buyer reach?
What does that look like?
What's the engagement look like?
Yep.
And it's the storytellingbehind the Pipeline that helps
people really see the change.
Matt Heinz (15:07):
Awesome.
Sara Kaylee, thank youso much for taking time.
Congrats again.
And we'll see you next time.
Sara Larsen (15:12):
All righty.
Thanks, Matt.
Kaylee Haun (15:13):
Thank you.
All right, we are back on the show floor, live at Forrester B2B Summit.
Just super excited.
Thanks so much again to Forresterfor making this possible.
We've been getting some greatguests on Sales Pipeline Radio.
Just in the last day and a half.
We've had a bunch of analysts.
We've had a number of CMOs reallyon the cutting edge of leading go to
market teams, and been really excitedto feature a number of B2B ROI award
(00:36):
winners, and excited to have a couplehere today from Wolters Kluwer.
We've got Sara Larsen, theChief Marketing Officer.
And Kaylee Haun the ABMmanager for Wolters Kluwer.
So thank you both for being here.
Sara Larsen (00:47):
Thank you.
Kaylee Haun (00:47):
Thank you for having us.
Matt Heinz (00:48):
Sara, you are fresh off this main stage in a room, just two
doors down talking about the awardand highlighting why you were there.
So first of all, congratulationsand maybe kick it off with,
why are you on stage today?
Like, what were we promoting and what arethe things you guys are doing so well?
Sara Larsen (01:04):
Why I was on stage.
That's a great question.
So thanks for Forrester.
They can answer that one, but I cantell you what I was talking about.
Matt Heinz (01:10):
There you go.
Sara Larsen (01:10):
And we've had a really exciting couple of years within
marketing at Wolters Kluwer Health.
So just for context, so Wolters KluwerHealth supports expert solutions that
help your doctors, your clinicians,your care teams make decisions about
your health, make sure that you havethe right treatment and care plans.
And those solutions, ifyou go to the doctor, it's
(01:32):
probably eight times outta 10.
They're using one of our solutionsto help make sure that you're
getting the best care possible.
So one of the challenges that we'vehad, we've got great products, we have
incredible customers, wonderful usersthat's reflected in some really great
numbers like our NPS, our brand awareness.
But one of the challenges that we've beenhaving is the healthcare system at large
(01:56):
has been experiencing a lot of change.
Mm-hmm.
As you may know, for the past five yearsthink where you were five years ago
today, probably locked down somewhere and.
That hit health systems really hard.
Yeah.
Yep.
So a lot of financial challenges, staffingchallenges care and care coordination, and
then just the continuous transformationof IT within health organizations
(02:20):
and the spend levels around IT.
So for us our solutions are nowcompeting with different dollars.
Mm-hmm.
A different mix of dollars.
And so while we're beloved by ourusers, the buying committee is shifting.
Mm-hmm.
So there's different people onthe buying committee and they're
looking for value in different ways.
(02:40):
So yes, they're excited that we havethe best solutions and content to help
clinicians, but they're also lookingfor what does this mean to help me
solve some of my financial problems?
Right?
How does it help me withmy staffing shortages?
How does this fit into my IT stackand make me more of a productive
and efficient organization?
Right?
And so we needed to figure outhow to talk to those folks.
(03:00):
Mm-hmm.
We lovingly call themour nonclinical buyers.
Yeah.
As opposed to the clinical people.
But that was a good distinction for usto kind of understand that there were
different folks that we needed to talk to.
And so getting that baselineunderstanding developed a whole set of
programs that we've been working on.
I call it sort of the pieces to thepuzzle over the past couple years.
Matt Heinz (03:23):
Love it.
And I love a mature organization wherewe can talk about not just net new
acquisition, but really putting a focuson turning that buying committee into
really a user and customer committeewhere you have some people where you're
trying to reinforce the why and earnrenewals and earn repeat business, but
there's always that land and expand motionwhere that committee gets more complex.
And yet I think a lot of companiesthey focus on the opportunity, they
(03:46):
focus on the account, they continueto single thread those deals.
So Kaylee, I would love to have youtalk about the change management
required to bring that to yourprograms, to bring that buying committee
mentality to this Pipeline production.
Kaylee Haun (04:01):
Yes, of course.
As far as our ABM program goesit was really important that
we were aligned with sales.
Mm-hmm.
And we were focusing on thosesales plays that were gonna drive
the needle to make sure that ourcampaigns had the proper segmentation.
And after that was done really making surethat all of our data was very clean in
the system before starting any programsfrom the account and the contact level.
Matt Heinz (04:23):
Yep.
Yeah and the data is such animportant part of this, right?
I think a lot of companies that havegood intentions that don't manage
the data, that don't have a great opsfoundation behind that really fall down.
Talk about some of thethings that went well.
As you work through this program,and then let's talk about some
things that didn't go well.
I think sometimes we learn as muchfrom the dumpster fires, and I'm not
saying whatever you're gonna shareas a dumpster fire, but, I feel like
(04:44):
in most cases, like the things thatdidn't go well sometimes teach us more.
And I appreciate you beingopen with some of those things.
So just what give us some on both sides.
Kaylee Haun (04:51):
Of course.
First of all, I think the thingthat went really well is that
we don't do ABM in a silo.
We make sure that it is part of ouroverall demand program and fits in with
our other campaigns and that we're usingour messaging and our persona research and
our buying group research and all of ourcore content pieces are integrated into
our ABM programs which really helps justmake sure that our message is consistent
(05:14):
across, all of our marketing that we do.
Matt Heinz (05:16):
And when you think about an account-based program I think for
the companies that do this well, it'snot a campaign, it's a culture change.
So talk about the origin of this andmaybe Sara, talk about the conversations
you had to have at the peer level withyour leaders and especially your sales
and CS, and go to market counterpartsto make sure they didn't see this
as just another quarterly campaign.
This is a new way we are going to market.
(05:38):
For the foreseeable future.
Sara Larsen (05:40):
Yeah, it was definitely a mind shift, right?
So once we got understanding and buy-inaround the buying committee the type
of messaging that needed to really getin front of those folks, there was a
question of how do we do that best?
And so a couple of things were happening.
One, we're transitioning fromproduct campaigns to buyer campaigns.
(06:01):
And that distinction was prettyprofound because if you think about
who's the buyer, the next question iswhat account are they with and what's
our objective around that account?
And so a big piece of the cultureand Kaylee talked to this around
the segmentations or understandingthe objectives of the segments and
the accounts within those segments.
So we've got a big renewal base.
(06:22):
But even within that, there's differentobjectives around the renewal.
It can be a big complex customer,it can be a smaller health system.
We could have a set of customers thatused to be customers and they didn't
renew and are trying to win them back.
And so taking more of that customer viewof where they are in their relationship
with us was really foundational tosetting that culture around ABM.
(06:46):
So getting out of the let's pumpanother product campaign out there
and who's opening the email to, let'slook at our accounts that we need
to renew two quarters out, and who'sengaging in the buying committee around
what types of content and are theyseeing the value that our sales folks
won't need to come in and talk aboutat the point of time and renewal so
(07:07):
that we're moving that deal along?
That's a big mental model shift.
Matt Heinz (07:11):
I have found that getting sales and marketing together
aligned on programs like this ishard enough, but we've made progress.
I feel like, asgo-to-market leaders there.
I think that we are further behindon getting CS and account management
teams to come along on that as well.
And you can build programs, you can buildplaybooks, but unless those are executed
and reinforced and done consistently,these programs tend to fall down.
(07:32):
Talk about that alignment internally.
And it's one thing to do jazzhands at a board meeting or jazz
hands at a kickoff, but then yougotta make that work on Tuesday.
So help me understand like whatwas the path to try to get there?
And I'm not assuming it's perfect,but what are the stages and the
things that you found to be mosthelpful to make progress on that?
Kaylee Haun (07:50):
Yes.
So I think the amount of data that we getfrom account-based marketing and being
able to see the insights of the activitythat the accounts are doing and the types
of content that they're engaging withhas been really vital to our CX team.
Yeah.
And being able to help them prepare fortheir conversations with the customer
and understand their customers better.
Kind of hand feeding that data,sharing what does it mean?
(08:13):
What are we seeing really gotthem on board for the program.
And the ABM as a whole,
Matt Heinz (08:19):
Was there pushback, was there a time when they said, because
what I've heard from other companiesis, especially with CS, they're
like, we don't need marketing's help.
We're good on this.
Right.
And those things we used tohear on the sales side saying
like, I don't touch my accounts.
I'm good.
Was there friction?
Was there resistance early on?
Kaylee Haun (08:36):
Maybe, um, I think, I think it's always, you
Matt Heinz (08:39):
don't, it's always on the dirty laundry here.
The answer's almost always Yes.
Right.
Sara Larsen (08:42):
I don't think it was resistance, like,
oh, ABM's a really bad idea.
Right, right.
I think it was more along the linesof, okay, but what's the value?
If I'm a sales leader or directorsalesperson, what's the value
of spending my time on this?
Yeah.
What's in it for me?
What am I gonna get out of this?
And so we've worked really hard totake as Kaylee talked about, that data
(09:03):
and, those insights and get them intoreally targeted discrete programs that
a salesperson or a CX person can use.
For example, doing account dossier, right?
Right.
Breaking it down into, here areyour top renewals next quarter.
Here are your top white space accounts.
Here's information that isuseful to you in your meetings.
Competitive insight.
(09:24):
That was great.
They love, that's like gold, right?
Like they're looking at the competitor.
You better get in there.
They love that.
It was like music to myears a few weeks ago.
I was on one of our priority renewalmeetings with our CEO and the head of
sales started talking about, well, andmarketing came and they told us that this
account is looking at our competitors.
And that insight was great because weknew where to go and how to position,
(09:48):
and it was like, whoa, it's working.
Mm-hmm.
You know we've infiltratedthe system here and.
That's because we are using theright data at the right time.
That was useful to the sales organization.
Right?
Matt Heinz (09:59):
We're live on the marketplace floor here at Forrester,
B2B Summit with Sara Larsen, KayleeHaun, both from Wolters Kluwer
Health B2B ROI award winners in 2025.
So you get on stage, you get recognized.
It's a lot of hard work toget there, to be recognized.
This is not a static place.
Right.
So what are some of the challenges youanticipate in terms of continuing to
build on this success in the year to come?
Kaylee Haun (10:21):
Yes.
So, we did have some learnings mm-hmm.
When rolling out our ABM program.
One of the main ones being making surethat your digital platforms are all set
up and interconnected appropriately.
And then with ABM I mean, your targetingneeds to be so precise because you
are going after individual buyinggroup members that maybe have a little
bit different messaging tailored tothem and different types of accounts.
(10:44):
And taking the time to do thosesetups correctly so that you can
measure and you can understand impact.
And as we continue to evolve our techstack and measurement framework I think
that is something that we're gonna havea big focus on going forward as well.
Matt Heinz (10:58):
I'd be curious to you answer that too, Sara.
Sara Larsen (11:00):
Yes.
I think if you were to ask me what'sthe headline of the year for a marketing
team one is integrated planning mm-hmm.
And bringing all of the insightsthat we have around the team into
one plan for our market segments.
Mm-hmm.
And so that sounds really easy.
Like, Hey, let's have one plan.
It's not, it's really hard, right?
Yeah.
And we are using the Forresterframework around that and thinking
(11:21):
about reputation and demand and customerengagement and sales enablement.
I'll tell you a littletales from the front.
I got to the point where we've got thislike monster spreadsheet for integrated
planning and I finally said, okay, programplanners are the only people with edit
access to this because we have to haveone control point around our plans.
Now that won't be ongoing.
(11:43):
We'll let other people get in the boat,but you need to get a control point
to get all of the plans, which areall great, but they could get siloed.
Right.
And so getting that into one place, sointegrated program planning, and then
that ties so tightly to your abilityto then measure and look at ROI.
So analytics we all have in marketingthis year an adoption target around
(12:05):
using our Power BI platform and usinganalytics and insight in whatever
your role is in marketing using thatinformation to make better decisions.
Matt Heinz (12:15):
Yeah I feel like especially at this conference, when
they highlight larger, more complexorganizations that have really embraced
the complexity of doing this well.
And so you get up on stage and youtalk about the examples of success
and alternate metrics you're gettingand behind that is a lot of work.
It's a lot of change, it's a lot ofsort of friction and there's points
of failure that happen along the way.
(12:36):
So let's talk to people thatare out there that wanna win
this award next year, right.
That are sitting here somewhereand you wanna win an award, but
you're talking about really drivingchange in your organization and
accelerating the impact of marketing.
How should they be thinking aboutthat, knowing that change is hard.
That change is friction, thatthe status quo inside our
organizations is incredibly powerful.
(12:57):
What advice would you give themon how to manage that journey?
Sara Larsen (13:00):
Well, I would say have a view of where you want to be.
Mm-hmm.
But don't worry if youdon't get there on day one.
So I kinda use this analogy of a puzzle.
You know, you open up the thousandpiece puzzle and you see like the
picture that's gonna happen at the end.
And maybe you start with finding thecorners and then maybe you put the edges
together, and then maybe you do a littlepiece of this, it's pieces of the puzzle
(13:22):
and it will eventually come together.
The key thing is that enough of the peoplein your organization understand what that
final picture could look like, or at leastbelieve that it could look like that.
Matt Heinz (13:34):
Yeah.
Sara Larsen (13:35):
And that you have that buy-in across the team.
Matt Heinz (13:38):
I think that vision of where you're going.
Whether it's an outcome, whether it'sa state for the organization, whether
it's a number of what you think you'regonna achieve, it could be a growth
number, it could be a savings number.
I talked earlier with JimWilliams, the firm Uptempo.
We're talking about connectingmarketing and planning together.
We're talking about a reduction inpaperwork, a reduction in time it takes
for planning and everyone can startto do the value translation of it.
(13:59):
It used to take us sevenmonths to plan for the year.
Now it takes us two and a half months.
Imagine all that reclaimed timeand what you could do with that.
Right, right.
So, Kaylee, love to hearyour answer as well.
You know, for all the work you'vedone to make this possible to put Sara
on stage, what advice would you givefor teams that are in the trenches.
Kaylee Haun (14:14):
Yeah, I would say track everything.
Matt Heinz (14:15):
Yeah.
Kaylee Haun (14:16):
All the data points that you have.
And a lot of those like anecdotalstories too can go a long way
in gaining momentum and gettingsomething done and getting people on
board with change or new processes.
The more data, you can pulltogether and track the better story
you have to share with the org.
Matt Heinz (14:31):
Absolutely,
Sara Larsen (14:32):
And I think that piece on stories is really important.
We spend a lot of time in marketingtalking about Pipeline, Pipeline leads,
Pipeline, and Pipeline is the key aligningmetric between marketing and sales.
Mm-hmm.
So that is the most importantthing to be talking about.
It's the name of your show.
Matt Heinz (14:46):
It is,
Sara Larsen (14:46):
it's the name of your show.
However, there are a lot of otherdata points that you can use.
To compel, for example I get askedabout Pipeline, but I almost get
asked more often about our reach.
Yep.
What's our nonclinical buyer reach?
What does that look like?
What's the engagement look like?
Yep.
And it's the storytellingbehind the Pipeline that helps
people really see the change.
Matt Heinz (15:07):
Awesome.
Sara Kaylee, thank youso much for taking time.
Congrats again.
And we'll see you next time.
Sara Larsen (15:12):
All righty.
Thanks, Matt.
Kaylee Haun (15:13):
Thank you.
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