June 12, 2025 • 25 mins
In this special episode of Sales Pipeline Radio from the Forrester B2B Summit 2025 marketplace floor, Matt spoke with Helen Baptist, Chief Strategy and Market Officer at Lytho.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Heinz (00:16):
All right, back here, day two of Forrester B2B Summit.
We're live here on the marketplace floor.
Thanks again to Forresterfor making this possible.
We did 10 interviews, Helen yesterday.
10, 10 episodes of Sales Pipeline Radio.
We got another eight-ish today.
So it's just a content machineover here sitting in the corner.
But yeah, excited to be here.
(00:36):
And really, it's beenfun to talk to analysts.
It's been fun to talk to some of thepractitioners walking around that are
in the pit trying to get this work done.
Great to talk to a number ofROI award winners and excited
to have Helen Baptist here.
Helen, I don't even knowhow to introduce you.
Like normally I've got like someone'stitle, like you're just, a woman of
the people, you are a multi exit,multi-time COO, running all of the things.
(00:57):
You're a force.
Helen Baptist (00:58):
Thanks Matt.
It's a pleasure to be here with you.
Honestly, I think more like a friendand a brother, than just somebody
who's in the network and it's aprivilege to be on podcast or radio
with you, whatever we're calling this.
Matt Heinz (01:10):
Podcast radio.
I will, I don't think I've told youthis, but I've mentioned it before.
I was in the radio broadcastingclub in high school.
And we're not on video, but you shouldsee the look I just got from Helen.
It was one of those,
Helen Baptist (01:22):
a voice for radio.
Matt Heinz (01:23):
It was one of those, you should not say that out loud.
It is a voice for radio.
We basically, there were five of us and wewould, every once in a while there was a
sponsor teacher who was super into it andevery once in a while we'd get together
at lunch and like just practice recordingcommercial reads into tape recorders.
That's what we did.
Helen Baptist (01:37):
So I wanted to be, a little known fact, a sports broadcaster.
Yeah.
I have a physical educationdegree from McMaster University
and I managed the rugby team andI wrote all the articles Yeah.
For the school newspaper.
Yeah.
And then I wanted to be one, but you know,there weren't that many back in the day.
Yeah.
Now I think about some of the, you know,Sarah Walsh and Erin Andrews and mm-hmm.
(01:58):
The women that are in sports broadcasting.
But this is divergent and Ifeel like I'm doing a Brent
Adamson Friday call with you.
Matt Heinz (02:05):
That's what we do here.
I told you right before, like wewere, I had two CMOs on yesterday
and we were talking about like AIintegration or some bullshit like that.
And then we finally realized thatwe all had teenage boys and then
it got really interesting, right?
Yeah.
So that's where, to your point, that'swhere like, getting together in person.
And as even as technology creeps intothe go-to-market motions and eventually
maybe robots sell to robots, we'restill gonna exist in this world.
(02:27):
And our lizard brains wannamake connection with each other.
And those connections are notusually over sales integration.
It's usually over bacon stuff.
It's bacon.
It's bacon.
It's
Helen Baptist (02:37):
yeah, Matt actually sent me a package of his homemade bacon one time.
Mm-hmm.
And it arrived a day when I wasn't there.
Oh.
And the dry ice was kind of.
Getting done.
Yeah.
But the bacon was still delicious.
Yeah.
But thank you.
Matt Heinz (02:48):
Yeah.
No, the nice thing about baconis if you send it frozen, if you
send it in the right package, youcan send it across the country.
And if you're there, it's gonna come.
And it's still gonna be cold,frozen, maybe not quite frozen.
What is it still frozen?
It's still frozen.
Oh, see, that's good.
Yeah.
So thank you.
Yeah.
There's a family ranch in Californiathat we sometimes order from.
Helen Baptist (03:01):
Five Marys
Matt Heinz (03:02):
said Five Marys.
That's right.
And they will send it all in thislike prepackaged thing with all
the dry ice and it's fantastic.
It's like a lot more expensive thanbuying it for the supermarket, but
you know where it's coming from.
Helen Baptist (03:11):
Yeah.
You know where the meat's coming from,
Matt Heinz (03:12):
You know where it's coming from.
You know that they put a lotof care into, you know, it's a
small family business doing it.
Yeah.
So there's something to be said.
Helen Baptist (03:18):
I think the relationship to this conversation is
about small family business and youknow where things are coming from.
Mm-hmm.
In that the CMO and the marketingteam is usually a small family
business inside a large organization.
And that's a stretch.
I get it.
Matt Heinz (03:32):
But a little bit.
But let's talk about, theanalogy I think is interesting.
There is the relationships, right?
Yeah.
The relationship you have whereyou have a foundation of trust.
Mm-hmm.
If you're gonna go and like, 'causenone of us run businesses or a
part of businesses that are easyand it's always smooth sailing.
It's always gonna be hard or get hard.
But the people you do that with, thepeople you can have those arguments with.
If you have a strong foundationof trust That's right.
(03:54):
You can get through thosemoments and figure it out.
And I don't know, man, in my career,I think about the places that haven't
always been the easiest to work, but theplaces where I have gotten the most value
and it's because we cared about eachother and we were there for each other.
Helen Baptist (04:05):
Yeah, I think that the business, especially in private
equity backed or VC backed, andmaybe even more so in public, I
don't know, but where there areother people's money on the table.
Yeah.
The human component of workis, and it's been hard, right?
Mm-hmm.
For the last five years ofremote and all that other stuff.
But I think through the power ofthings like the CMO Coffee Talk from
(04:27):
6sense and the Empowered CMO or CXO asthey're calling it this year mm-hmm.
There is a network of people that youcan have life stories with, right?
Yeah.
So I lost my mom.
I talked to you about it.
Yeah, I've talked to abunch of other people.
There's some people who've been throughcancer and life changing situations.
And then there's these emergingCMOs who are in their first CMO
(04:49):
role where, you know, you're sittingat the table and you're talking.
I just came from a breakfast, actually.
Mm-hmm.
An Empowered CMO breakfast andtalking about how do you make sure
you get the right compensation Yep.
And how do you present yourself tothe board and make sure that you're
not the arts and crafts department.
Mm-hmm.
And the way that I've always thoughtabout it in that role of being either the
(05:09):
Chief Strategy Officer or the Chief MarketOfficer or the Chief Operating Officer.
You look at my titles, that thoseare all the same kind of role.
Mm-hmm.
Is that I think about the CEO hasone job if you're in private equity
or VC-backed, is he or they aretrying to sell the company mm-hmm.
For the shareholders to get their money.
Mm-hmm.
So I always think about three pipelines.
(05:31):
Yeah.
Three funnels, whicheverway you wanna talk about it.
The first is obviouslythe marketing funnel.
Am I driving enough through the funnel?
Do I have enough materials andcontent to enable the sellers?
Look, I don't play theattribution game, I'll say that.
I've never done attribution.
What I look at is do I have enoughvelocity and volume in the Pipeline Yeah.
To hit our numbers, whatever thegoal is, and can I accelerate the
(05:53):
conversion rates and improve thoseover a trailing five quarter thing?
Traditional kind of marketing stuff.
The second funnel, obviously isthe Pipeline and the conversion
through that and understanding whereyou're getting stuck and having
very clear entry and exit criteria.
Mm-hmm.
But the one that we don't talkabout a lot is the investor funnel.
Yeah.
And whether that's investorfor fundraising or an exit
(06:13):
or a strategic acquisition.
And yet there's thesame plays are in play.
Mm-hmm.
Like how do you warm those people up
Yeah.
To buy.
And believe mm-hmm.
Whatever you're selling mm-hmm.
The selling the company, right?
Mm-hmm.
And selling the product vision the uniqueIP that you might have or otherwise.
So, as you're an emerging CMO, ifyou're listening to this, take a look.
Matt Heinz (06:35):
Yep.
Helen Baptist (06:36):
What story do you need to tell about the market?
To the people that mightwanna buy from you.
Yep.
What competitive intrusion are happening.
Use your data analytics tools,or voice recordings to mine
for competitive intrusions.
Think about things like, how do youget your team to realize that you
need to warm up those investors?
(06:57):
Yeah.
Is it because you're gonna play astrategic partnership in quotations or
they're in your ecosystem and thereforeyou might want to steal some of their
customers or partner with their customers?
And I think about, in the MarTechindustry particularly, which
is where I spent some time.
Matt Heinz (07:13):
Yeah, I think I could make the case that the Chief Market Officer's
primary role is product market fit.
And not just like defining that in themarket, but also deciding what should
be in market and making sure that thereis a market for what you're building.
And the way I've sort of describedthat is say, look, if you ask a sales
team, what do you need from marketing?
Like they're probablygonna say leads, right?
(07:35):
But leads is simply a manifestation of amarket that craves what you're selling.
And so, you don't need to createleads if the market is beating down
your door and there's never gonnabe a build it and they will come.
But if you nail product market fit,then you're gonna have a lot easier
time driving and building Pipeline.
Yeah.
Because you're in the rightplace at the right time.
Helen Baptist (07:54):
Yeah.
I think the effort that you putinto positioning, messaging, ICP
development and your campaignstrategies underneath that mm-hmm.
Is probably one of the most underratedvalue that the CMO brings to the table.
Yep.
And it has to be infused with thevoice of the customer, the voice
(08:16):
of the competitors, et cetera.
So, you know.
I look at, there's noChief Financing Officer,
Mm-hmm.
There's no Chief Executiving Officer.
Right.
Take the verb out of the title.
Yeah.
And own the market.
And market is about sellingproduct and you have to have fit.
So to your point, product market fit.
(08:38):
You have to help drive the product roadmapbased on the changes in the marketplace
or competitors or whatever, what yourcustomers are saying to you they need.
So yeah, you're absolutely right.
It is about representing theproduct and the market fit
Matt Heinz (08:52):
Well and you just came from the Empowered breakfast.
I give a lot of credit to Latane forthe work she's done to really evangelize
that Chief Market Officer role.
And it's not just about the title,it's about what that role represents
and what that role needs to and shouldown, and we're sitting here in the
midst of what I think might be sortof a critical moment for the Chief
Market or Marketing Officer role.
A lot of talk about like, is thatreally someone that should be at
(09:15):
the C-suite should, a lot more headsof marketing are reporting to CROs.
Mm-hmm.
A lot more companies are thinkingabout marketing as a support
function for the go to market teams.
I believe that is shortselling the opportunity.
I think that's leaving a lot on the table.
I think that's thinking about thenear term needs of the business
while sacrificing the long-termvalue and health of the business.
(09:35):
Curious what you think about it.
Helen Baptist (09:36):
I a hundred percent agree.
I think that the Chief MarketOficer has to balance pipeline
generation and brand awareness.
And if you put that positionunderneath a revenue officer.
You don't have the latitudeand the permission and the
grace to focus on brand.
You are always focused on demandand pipe, and I think that that
(10:00):
is very shortsighted because.
Accounts aren't always in market,and if you don't have brand
awareness, you can't build pipe.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
I think Kerry Cunningham from 6sensequote, and I like, we're talking about
6sense a lot, but 6sense has donesome research that like only 2 or
3% of accounts are in purchase mode.
Mm-hmm.
(10:21):
They are doing their homework, 90%of the journey is done before they
have four or five vendors in mindbefore they even contact the company.
And how do they know about you?
That is a brand awareness factor.
Mm-hmm.
Where does brand manifest itselfin the marketing that you do?
In the communities that you're in,in the relationships that you have.
Mm-hmm.
And so the Chief Market Officer alsohas to be somewhat of an evangelist.
(10:45):
In my mind for that brand.
Again, talking about how it fits theneeds of the market, and then that
builds in the extra pipeline factor.
Matt Heinz (10:55):
You mentioned earlier, prioritizing velocity.
I don't think a lot of people knowwhat that means or how it's defined
or how even to operationalize it.
Can you unpack that a little bit?
Helen Baptist (11:04):
Yeah.
One of the key metrics that I alwayslook at is obviously everybody looks
at conversion rates through thosedifferent funnels, whether it's the
marketing funnel or the Sales Pipeline.
Yeah.
Everybody's trying to improve thoseconversion rates to the end of CAGR.
Mm-hmm.
CAGR has two levers to pull on mm-hmm.
Velocity.
Mm-hmm.
Which is the speed by which those thingsmove through the different stages.
(11:26):
Right.
And the conversion rates.
And if you can focus on both mm-hmm.
Rather than just one, whichis the conversion rates.
Mm-hmm.
You actually have a compounding factoron your net present value or NPV can
accelerate even further and faster.
So it's about making sure that youare monitoring both and that you're
(11:46):
identifying the factors and attributesthat increase that velocity as well.
Matt Heinz (11:52):
There's concepts like velocity, NPV, the rule of 40, like these
things are foreign to a lot of marketers.
Yeah.
And even marketing leaders.
But this is the language of how a lot ofthose growth businesses like talk and if
you want credibility for your Chief MarketOfficer role or just marketing in general.
Yeah.
Like we have our ownlanguage of MQLs, SQLs, ABM.
(12:13):
It'd be better for us to speak thelanguage of the CFO and the board
Helen Baptist (12:17):
That's right.
Matt Heinz (12:17):
To be taken more seriously.
Helen Baptist (12:19):
Yeah.
It's interesting 'cause I've exited fourtimes and the CEO plays a critical role
in that, but the best partnership mm-hmm.
That I've ever haveusually is with the CFO.
Yeah.
Because that is the person who hasto report the financials and what
we do is a factor of financials.
Yep.
I think the other part of it is, I thinkabout it from a consumer perspective
and you know, when you think about wherepeople make their money in financial
(12:43):
services like credit cards mm-hmm.
It's on compound interest.
Mm-hmm.
It's on mm-hmm.
net present value.
Mm-hmm.
It's on even in your retirementfunds, if you wanna put it in a
different light, a be a better light.
Yep.
Is what is the run rate in themarket and how do you play the game.
Where do you take more risk?
Where do you not take risk based onyour age of the company and yourself?
Yeah, like I'm at the end of my career,and my husband and I are evaluating
(13:07):
our retirement fund, and I have a highrisk account, and he's older than me.
He's retired.
Mm-hmm.
And he has a low risk account.
Mm-hmm.
Because he wants the longevity ofthat money to stay stable, especially
in today's macroeconomics world.
Right?
And so that mindset is how I playin the CMO role is where's the risk
and the reward going to come from?
(13:27):
That's right.
And how do I optimize and maximize themoney that I have in a marketing budget
or in a sales budget or whatever it is tothe end of what is the board asking for?
Are we a late stage in their funding?
Mm-hmm.
Are we early stage in their funding?
Are they a new private equity orVC fund because they need a win.
Right.
So understanding the dynamics of whoyour owners are, what their objective
(13:52):
is, what the CEO's role in that is.
Yeah.
Whether that is a builder or anoperator or whether that is a
run the business kind of person.
Mm-hmm.
Those are all things that Ilook at when I'm taking roles
or I'm looking at companies.
Matt Heinz (14:06):
Why do you prioritize coming to an event like this?
I mean, you know, it's a hassle to travel.
We all get comfortable workingfrom our home offices these days.
It's so easy to do things through Zoom.
I mean, all the keynotes and thingsthat are happening in the other room.
We can all watch those on YouTube later.
Yeah.
Why is it important stillto come here in person?
Helen Baptist (14:22):
Well, first off, there are new entries into the marketplace mm-hmm.
From a vendor perspective.
So I'm always looking at who those areand who's investing in their marketing
and what kind of marketing they're doing.
So I'm trying to Yeah.
Steal some potentialbest practices or not.
Yeah, yeah.
Avoid the dumpster firesthat we talk about a lot.
That's right.
I also come to reaffirm my knowledgeand my skillset from basically
(14:44):
the ARs obviously the analysts.
I also get some confidence from myselfin terms of I am doing the right things.
Mm-hmm.
Or I'm actually ahead of some of thethings that they're talking about.
Yeah.
And more importantly, I think forme it's about the relationships.
Right.
So I can walk around,it's like old home week.
Mm-hmm.
(15:04):
And I see a lot of people and I'veseen clients, I've seen prospects,
I've seen former employees, I've seensome of the analysts I've worked with.
Mm-hmm.
And for me it's about thecommunity of B2B marketers.
Matt Heinz (15:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would agree.
I think there's conversationsyou can have efficiently.
Mm-hmm.
Air quotes, from your home office, fromzoom, from digital channels, but there's
a depth of relationship that happens inperson that is irreplaceable elsewhere,
like you mentioned getting to know peopleon a personal level, like you and I have
talked about sick and dying parents.
Helen Baptist (15:37):
That's right.
Matt Heinz (15:38):
Latane and I met at a conference and, within five
minutes we were talking aboutour neurodiverse children.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And I can almost guarantee thatthat connection helped spark the
relationship we had, which turnedinto a business relationship.
And then here we are five yearslater doing CMO Coffee Talk together.
That wouldn't have happened if we weren'ttogether at a conference in Toronto.
Helen Baptist (15:55):
That's right.
And I think one of the things my mom saidis you'll always be authentically Helen.
Yep.
And I think the ability to beauthentic in human, in person adds
just this exponential multiplier ofbeing able to be vulnerable Yeah.
(16:15):
Or being human when you are on camera.
Yeah.
And so I'm forever gratefulfor, going through the five
year journey with you all.
Mm-hmm.
At CMO Coffee Talks.
I was on the first one,which was March 20th.
You were 2019.
Yeah.
It was the first week of shutdown.
Mm-hmm.
In the United States and Canada.
That's right.
And that was a tumultuoustime in life, right?
(16:36):
Mm-hmm.
We didn't know, was it theend of the world and then few
weeks later was George Floyd.
Mm-hmm.
And we were managing people's lives.
We had a lot of people looking to usto make informed decisions, and yet we
weren't any more informed than they were.
Right.
And so this community has reallyallowed me to accelerate personally,
(16:57):
professionally, emotionally,psychologically, there is a
psychological safety within thisgroup as well, is what I wanna say.
Matt Heinz (17:03):
Yeah.
No, I appreciate that.
And that is something that I'm veryproud of, to have a place where people
lean in with each other, but also feellike they can sort of be themselves.
Yeah.
Admit to all of our fallibility.
Do you remember we did asession on imposter syndrome?
We had an author come and do a talkwho's written a book about it, and at
one point in the session we said, raiseyour hand if you have felt like or
feel like you have imposter syndrome.
Helen Baptist (17:23):
Yep.
Matt Heinz (17:23):
And I think 93% of people raised their hand.
And the other 7% werenot paying attention.
They must have been multitasking,
Helen Baptist (17:29):
riding their bikes or walking.
Right.
Exactly.
Matt Heinz (17:31):
Which is totally fine.
It's totally fine.
But like I had people call mefor both sessions afterward.
Multiple people say, Ithought it was just me.
No, and these are heads of marketing.
These are very successful senior peoplewho have clearly been very successful
in their career and yet, A, they haveimposter syndrome and B, they thought
they were the only ones with it.
Helen Baptist (17:47):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
I think, as, again, I've beenin the business for too long.
I have imposter syndrome, I'mchanging jobs again and that
interview process and the rejection.
But I had this conversation with awoman this morning actually at the
Empowered CMO breakfast, and I try todiverge from what is my job mm-hmm.
To balancing, how do I make otherpeople grow and feel better?
(18:12):
Okay.
Yeah.
Right.
When things are shitty atwork, sometimes the wins that
other people are having Yeah.
Allows me the grace to feelgood every now and then, right?
That I've done something right?
Mm-hmm.
By promoting people, giving themopportunities to stretch, try new things.
It's fun to see peoplegrow in their career Yeah.
Or want to work with you again.
Matt Heinz (18:31):
Yeah.
There's a book I think we talked aboutbefore called From Strength to Strength,
and it talks about moving from the mostproductive times in your lives, which
usually is like late twenties, earlythirties, into later stages of your life.
And I'm not at the end of my careeryet but I'm closing in on 50 and
I know that I got a lot of timeto go, but, the book talks about
going from dynamic intelligence,meaning you are doing and building
(18:52):
things to crystallize intelligence.
When all of your experiencein learnings becomes wisdom.
Yeah.
Something you could not havehad earlier in your career.
Something that is, was frustratingto me early in my career.
'cause I just wanted to movefaster, but you literally need
the time to get to the at bats.
And so even though you cannot producewhat you could in your earlier
days, that knowledge is priceless.
Yeah.
And so to be able to think ofthat as like, this is now part
(19:14):
of my gift back to others.
So the question I guess, this is thefirst time I've heard you say you're
towards the end of your career.
I cannot imagine youretiring, first of all.
I just, I don't understandthat, but as someone who's like
thinking about that mm-hmm.
What advice do you have for othersthat are starting to come in here?
For others that aren't at that stageand really haven't thought about it and
have no idea how to even think about it.
Helen Baptist (19:33):
Yeah.
Matt Heinz (19:33):
What would be your advice to them?
Helen Baptist (19:37):
So it's contextual.
I'll say this.
My mother never graduated high school.
Mm-hmm.
She had dyslexia and yet she wasone of the smartest women in the
world and one of the kindest Yeah.
She passed away a year and a half agoand there were 300 people at her wake.
Yeah.
Why?
Because she gave back to people Yeah.
In ways that they didn't even realize.
Yeah.
(19:58):
And so if you are starting outyour career, if you are climbing.
Think about what legacy you want to leave.
Mm-hmm.
And how do you start layingthose stones that become the
path for others to trail on.
Mm-hmm.
My personal one, and I've been working onit for 15 years, is resume making moments.
Mm-hmm.
How do I give people the opportunityand how do I tell them that they've
(20:23):
actually had the resume making moment?
'cause many people don't recognize it.
That's, that's the other part, right?
That's right.
Is how do I give people the opportunity?
How do I stretch 'em?
How do I tap into their passion?
Yeah.
To either guide them inthe role they're in mm-hmm.
Or find them another new role Right.
Where they can be highly successful.
Right.
And yet I often sit down and I say topeople, you know you just had a resume
(20:44):
making moment and I did this recently.
Yeah.
And the person I was talkingto was like, what do you mean?
And I said, you have just createdsomething that didn't exist here.
Matt Heinz (20:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Helen Baptist (20:53):
And so as you are growing up in your career is, think about.
What your legacy might be.
How will people talkabout you at your funeral?
Because this is a job and nobody's gonnatalk about how good you were at your job.
What you're gonna talk aboutis how were you as a human?
Matt Heinz (21:10):
I think about that at work, and I increasingly
think about that at home.
My kids are 15, 14, and 11, and Idistinctly remember all of them being
born, and yet now my daughter isdriving and thinking about college.
And I was telling someone earliertoday, like I travel for work a lot.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not there every day.
But I have never missed one of myson's wrestling meets, my daughter
and I have a tradition of goingto the Nutcracker every year.
(21:32):
And this year we're gonna go see Romeoand Juliet at Pacific Northwest Ballet.
And I wanted to see it and Iwasn't sure if she'd want to, but
she's like, yeah, we're going.
Helen Baptist (21:38):
Yeah.
Matt Heinz (21:38):
And it's those moments.
You know, last night she was having atough time on stuff, so we just called and
talked for 40 minutes through some things.
And even though I'm not there, justbeing there and being present and having
those moments, life is a long time.
Yes.
And you can't be present all the time,but you can create those connections,
you can create those moments,you can prioritize those moments.
That's right.
(21:59):
And it costs you nothing.
Helen Baptist (22:00):
It's interesting.
My son is 26 and I went to a wedding,and he was the best man in the wedding.
And I've never seen him speak publicly.
Yeah.
Except for high school.
Right.
You don't see it in collegedoing presentations.
He has a full-time job.
I don't see him do his job.
Yeah.
And yet people came up to meafterwards and said, great speech.
But he's a great guy.
Matt Heinz (22:21):
Yeah.
Helen Baptist (22:22):
And that's the legacy that I have in him.
Matt Heinz (22:25):
Yeah.
Helen Baptist (22:25):
I want that for people who I know and work with.
Matt Heinz (22:29):
You know, it is such a simple answer, but I think about
what's gonna make for a successful kid.
And I think about thatfor all of our kids.
And I worry about all of them, but I thinkI want them to launch with good values,
with good heads on their shoulders.
I want people to thinkof them as good people.
Yeah.
Right.
Like you think about like peopleyou hire, like you can hire people
that are technically proficientat their job but are assholes.
Helen Baptist (22:48):
Yeah.
Matt Heinz (22:48):
And so you can hire people that are good value.
I want values fit culture adds,and I want those people where
that high degree of trust exists.
Yeah.
What we're doing here isnot rocket science, right?
Like it's gettingincreasingly more difficult.
But this literally is not rocket science.
This is a teachable thing.
I'd rather find people thatare the right foundation.
Yeah.
And build a business based on that,especially as a services business.
Helen Baptist (23:11):
Yeah.
I totally agree with you.
I think the values that you havein your home life and what other
values people have as well.
And look, I grew up all around the world.
Mm-hmm.
My parents were in the mining business.
I've lived in Indonesia.
I went to boarding school in Singapore.
Yeah.
I've traveled around theworld probably 10 times.
The ability to assimilateinto a new environment.
(23:33):
Yeah.
I got that from travelingand moving around the world.
I was the blonde girl inan Indonesian village.
Mm-hmm.
I was the outcast.
Yeah.
And so my tolerance for other peoplesand perspectives is different.
Yeah.
And so I think, what values do you have?
How can you bring other people'svalues to your value pool?
(23:55):
How do you align, how doyou interview for those?
That's part of being a good CMO as well.
Yeah, right.
Is interviewing, so anyway.
Matt Heinz (24:01):
Yeah,
Helen Baptist (24:02):
I diverge.
Matt Heinz (24:02):
I love it.
Helen, thank you for doing this.
My life is better from getting toknow you in the last five plus years.
I just really appreciate your insights.
You've inspired me andchallenged me and just I'm so
proud to consider you a friend.
So thank you.
Yeah,
Helen Baptist (24:14):
Matt, we've had some tough conversations in the last couple
of months and so on and so forth,but I think the ability to have those
conversations is because we are verygood friends and we've invested in
each other, and so keep investing.
I am grateful for seeing youat five o'clock your time every
Friday morning on CMO Coffee Talk.
If you're not part of CMO Coffee Talk,and you are CMO or Head of Marketing.
(24:36):
Reach out to Matt or Latane.
Matt Heinz (24:37):
Love to have you.
Absolutely.
Helen Baptist (24:38):
The value in those relationships is impossible
to measure, but truly there.
But thank you, Matt, forhaving me on your podcast.
I'm so thrilled to be here.
Matt Heinz (24:45):
Thank you for being here.
Thanks for making the timeand, enjoy the rest of the day.
All right, back here, day two of Forrester B2B Summit.
We're live here on the marketplace floor.
Thanks again to Forresterfor making this possible.
We did 10 interviews, Helen yesterday.
10, 10 episodes of Sales Pipeline Radio.
We got another eight-ish today.
So it's just a content machineover here sitting in the corner.
But yeah, excited to be here.
(00:36):
And really, it's beenfun to talk to analysts.
It's been fun to talk to some of thepractitioners walking around that are
in the pit trying to get this work done.
Great to talk to a number ofROI award winners and excited
to have Helen Baptist here.
Helen, I don't even knowhow to introduce you.
Like normally I've got like someone'stitle, like you're just, a woman of
the people, you are a multi exit,multi-time COO, running all of the things.
(00:57):
You're a force.
Helen Baptist (00:58):
Thanks Matt.
It's a pleasure to be here with you.
Honestly, I think more like a friendand a brother, than just somebody
who's in the network and it's aprivilege to be on podcast or radio
with you, whatever we're calling this.
Matt Heinz (01:10):
Podcast radio.
I will, I don't think I've told youthis, but I've mentioned it before.
I was in the radio broadcastingclub in high school.
And we're not on video, but you shouldsee the look I just got from Helen.
It was one of those,
Helen Baptist (01:22):
a voice for radio.
Matt Heinz (01:23):
It was one of those, you should not say that out loud.
It is a voice for radio.
We basically, there were five of us and wewould, every once in a while there was a
sponsor teacher who was super into it andevery once in a while we'd get together
at lunch and like just practice recordingcommercial reads into tape recorders.
That's what we did.
Helen Baptist (01:37):
So I wanted to be, a little known fact, a sports broadcaster.
Yeah.
I have a physical educationdegree from McMaster University
and I managed the rugby team andI wrote all the articles Yeah.
For the school newspaper.
Yeah.
And then I wanted to be one, but you know,there weren't that many back in the day.
Yeah.
Now I think about some of the, you know,Sarah Walsh and Erin Andrews and mm-hmm.
(01:58):
The women that are in sports broadcasting.
But this is divergent and Ifeel like I'm doing a Brent
Adamson Friday call with you.
Matt Heinz (02:05):
That's what we do here.
I told you right before, like wewere, I had two CMOs on yesterday
and we were talking about like AIintegration or some bullshit like that.
And then we finally realized thatwe all had teenage boys and then
it got really interesting, right?
Yeah.
So that's where, to your point, that'swhere like, getting together in person.
And as even as technology creeps intothe go-to-market motions and eventually
maybe robots sell to robots, we'restill gonna exist in this world.
(02:27):
And our lizard brains wannamake connection with each other.
And those connections are notusually over sales integration.
It's usually over bacon stuff.
It's bacon.
It's bacon.
It's
Helen Baptist (02:37):
yeah, Matt actually sent me a package of his homemade bacon one time.
Mm-hmm.
And it arrived a day when I wasn't there.
Oh.
And the dry ice was kind of.
Getting done.
Yeah.
But the bacon was still delicious.
Yeah.
But thank you.
Matt Heinz (02:48):
Yeah.
No, the nice thing about baconis if you send it frozen, if you
send it in the right package, youcan send it across the country.
And if you're there, it's gonna come.
And it's still gonna be cold,frozen, maybe not quite frozen.
What is it still frozen?
It's still frozen.
Oh, see, that's good.
Yeah.
So thank you.
Yeah.
There's a family ranch in Californiathat we sometimes order from.
Helen Baptist (03:01):
Five Marys
Matt Heinz (03:02):
said Five Marys.
That's right.
And they will send it all in thislike prepackaged thing with all
the dry ice and it's fantastic.
It's like a lot more expensive thanbuying it for the supermarket, but
you know where it's coming from.
Helen Baptist (03:11):
Yeah.
You know where the meat's coming from,
Matt Heinz (03:12):
You know where it's coming from.
You know that they put a lotof care into, you know, it's a
small family business doing it.
Yeah.
So there's something to be said.
Helen Baptist (03:18):
I think the relationship to this conversation is
about small family business and youknow where things are coming from.
Mm-hmm.
In that the CMO and the marketingteam is usually a small family
business inside a large organization.
And that's a stretch.
I get it.
Matt Heinz (03:32):
But a little bit.
But let's talk about, theanalogy I think is interesting.
There is the relationships, right?
Yeah.
The relationship you have whereyou have a foundation of trust.
Mm-hmm.
If you're gonna go and like, 'causenone of us run businesses or a
part of businesses that are easyand it's always smooth sailing.
It's always gonna be hard or get hard.
But the people you do that with, thepeople you can have those arguments with.
If you have a strong foundationof trust That's right.
(03:54):
You can get through thosemoments and figure it out.
And I don't know, man, in my career,I think about the places that haven't
always been the easiest to work, but theplaces where I have gotten the most value
and it's because we cared about eachother and we were there for each other.
Helen Baptist (04:05):
Yeah, I think that the business, especially in private
equity backed or VC backed, andmaybe even more so in public, I
don't know, but where there areother people's money on the table.
Yeah.
The human component of workis, and it's been hard, right?
Mm-hmm.
For the last five years ofremote and all that other stuff.
But I think through the power ofthings like the CMO Coffee Talk from
(04:27):
6sense and the Empowered CMO or CXO asthey're calling it this year mm-hmm.
There is a network of people that youcan have life stories with, right?
Yeah.
So I lost my mom.
I talked to you about it.
Yeah, I've talked to abunch of other people.
There's some people who've been throughcancer and life changing situations.
And then there's these emergingCMOs who are in their first CMO
(04:49):
role where, you know, you're sittingat the table and you're talking.
I just came from a breakfast, actually.
Mm-hmm.
An Empowered CMO breakfast andtalking about how do you make sure
you get the right compensation Yep.
And how do you present yourself tothe board and make sure that you're
not the arts and crafts department.
Mm-hmm.
And the way that I've always thoughtabout it in that role of being either the
(05:09):
Chief Strategy Officer or the Chief MarketOfficer or the Chief Operating Officer.
You look at my titles, that thoseare all the same kind of role.
Mm-hmm.
Is that I think about the CEO hasone job if you're in private equity
or VC-backed, is he or they aretrying to sell the company mm-hmm.
For the shareholders to get their money.
Mm-hmm.
So I always think about three pipelines.
(05:31):
Yeah.
Three funnels, whicheverway you wanna talk about it.
The first is obviouslythe marketing funnel.
Am I driving enough through the funnel?
Do I have enough materials andcontent to enable the sellers?
Look, I don't play theattribution game, I'll say that.
I've never done attribution.
What I look at is do I have enoughvelocity and volume in the Pipeline Yeah.
To hit our numbers, whatever thegoal is, and can I accelerate the
(05:53):
conversion rates and improve thoseover a trailing five quarter thing?
Traditional kind of marketing stuff.
The second funnel, obviously isthe Pipeline and the conversion
through that and understanding whereyou're getting stuck and having
very clear entry and exit criteria.
Mm-hmm.
But the one that we don't talkabout a lot is the investor funnel.
Yeah.
And whether that's investorfor fundraising or an exit
(06:13):
or a strategic acquisition.
And yet there's thesame plays are in play.
Mm-hmm.
Like how do you warm those people up
Yeah.
To buy.
And believe mm-hmm.
Whatever you're selling mm-hmm.
The selling the company, right?
Mm-hmm.
And selling the product vision the uniqueIP that you might have or otherwise.
So, as you're an emerging CMO, ifyou're listening to this, take a look.
Matt Heinz (06:35):
Yep.
Helen Baptist (06:36):
What story do you need to tell about the market?
To the people that mightwanna buy from you.
Yep.
What competitive intrusion are happening.
Use your data analytics tools,or voice recordings to mine
for competitive intrusions.
Think about things like, how do youget your team to realize that you
need to warm up those investors?
(06:57):
Yeah.
Is it because you're gonna play astrategic partnership in quotations or
they're in your ecosystem and thereforeyou might want to steal some of their
customers or partner with their customers?
And I think about, in the MarTechindustry particularly, which
is where I spent some time.
Matt Heinz (07:13):
Yeah, I think I could make the case that the Chief Market Officer's
primary role is product market fit.
And not just like defining that in themarket, but also deciding what should
be in market and making sure that thereis a market for what you're building.
And the way I've sort of describedthat is say, look, if you ask a sales
team, what do you need from marketing?
Like they're probablygonna say leads, right?
(07:35):
But leads is simply a manifestation of amarket that craves what you're selling.
And so, you don't need to createleads if the market is beating down
your door and there's never gonnabe a build it and they will come.
But if you nail product market fit,then you're gonna have a lot easier
time driving and building Pipeline.
Yeah.
Because you're in the rightplace at the right time.
Helen Baptist (07:54):
Yeah.
I think the effort that you putinto positioning, messaging, ICP
development and your campaignstrategies underneath that mm-hmm.
Is probably one of the most underratedvalue that the CMO brings to the table.
Yep.
And it has to be infused with thevoice of the customer, the voice
(08:16):
of the competitors, et cetera.
So, you know.
I look at, there's noChief Financing Officer,
Mm-hmm.
There's no Chief Executiving Officer.
Right.
Take the verb out of the title.
Yeah.
And own the market.
And market is about sellingproduct and you have to have fit.
So to your point, product market fit.
(08:38):
You have to help drive the product roadmapbased on the changes in the marketplace
or competitors or whatever, what yourcustomers are saying to you they need.
So yeah, you're absolutely right.
It is about representing theproduct and the market fit
Matt Heinz (08:52):
Well and you just came from the Empowered breakfast.
I give a lot of credit to Latane forthe work she's done to really evangelize
that Chief Market Officer role.
And it's not just about the title,it's about what that role represents
and what that role needs to and shouldown, and we're sitting here in the
midst of what I think might be sortof a critical moment for the Chief
Market or Marketing Officer role.
A lot of talk about like, is thatreally someone that should be at
(09:15):
the C-suite should, a lot more headsof marketing are reporting to CROs.
Mm-hmm.
A lot more companies are thinkingabout marketing as a support
function for the go to market teams.
I believe that is shortselling the opportunity.
I think that's leaving a lot on the table.
I think that's thinking about thenear term needs of the business
while sacrificing the long-termvalue and health of the business.
(09:35):
Curious what you think about it.
Helen Baptist (09:36):
I a hundred percent agree.
I think that the Chief MarketOficer has to balance pipeline
generation and brand awareness.
And if you put that positionunderneath a revenue officer.
You don't have the latitudeand the permission and the
grace to focus on brand.
You are always focused on demandand pipe, and I think that that
(10:00):
is very shortsighted because.
Accounts aren't always in market,and if you don't have brand
awareness, you can't build pipe.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
I think Kerry Cunningham from 6sensequote, and I like, we're talking about
6sense a lot, but 6sense has donesome research that like only 2 or
3% of accounts are in purchase mode.
Mm-hmm.
(10:21):
They are doing their homework, 90%of the journey is done before they
have four or five vendors in mindbefore they even contact the company.
And how do they know about you?
That is a brand awareness factor.
Mm-hmm.
Where does brand manifest itselfin the marketing that you do?
In the communities that you're in,in the relationships that you have.
Mm-hmm.
And so the Chief Market Officer alsohas to be somewhat of an evangelist.
(10:45):
In my mind for that brand.
Again, talking about how it fits theneeds of the market, and then that
builds in the extra pipeline factor.
Matt Heinz (10:55):
You mentioned earlier, prioritizing velocity.
I don't think a lot of people knowwhat that means or how it's defined
or how even to operationalize it.
Can you unpack that a little bit?
Helen Baptist (11:04):
Yeah.
One of the key metrics that I alwayslook at is obviously everybody looks
at conversion rates through thosedifferent funnels, whether it's the
marketing funnel or the Sales Pipeline.
Yeah.
Everybody's trying to improve thoseconversion rates to the end of CAGR.
Mm-hmm.
CAGR has two levers to pull on mm-hmm.
Velocity.
Mm-hmm.
Which is the speed by which those thingsmove through the different stages.
(11:26):
Right.
And the conversion rates.
And if you can focus on both mm-hmm.
Rather than just one, whichis the conversion rates.
Mm-hmm.
You actually have a compounding factoron your net present value or NPV can
accelerate even further and faster.
So it's about making sure that youare monitoring both and that you're
(11:46):
identifying the factors and attributesthat increase that velocity as well.
Matt Heinz (11:52):
There's concepts like velocity, NPV, the rule of 40, like these
things are foreign to a lot of marketers.
Yeah.
And even marketing leaders.
But this is the language of how a lot ofthose growth businesses like talk and if
you want credibility for your Chief MarketOfficer role or just marketing in general.
Yeah.
Like we have our ownlanguage of MQLs, SQLs, ABM.
(12:13):
It'd be better for us to speak thelanguage of the CFO and the board
Helen Baptist (12:17):
That's right.
Matt Heinz (12:17):
To be taken more seriously.
Helen Baptist (12:19):
Yeah.
It's interesting 'cause I've exited fourtimes and the CEO plays a critical role
in that, but the best partnership mm-hmm.
That I've ever haveusually is with the CFO.
Yeah.
Because that is the person who hasto report the financials and what
we do is a factor of financials.
Yep.
I think the other part of it is, I thinkabout it from a consumer perspective
and you know, when you think about wherepeople make their money in financial
(12:43):
services like credit cards mm-hmm.
It's on compound interest.
Mm-hmm.
It's on mm-hmm.
net present value.
Mm-hmm.
It's on even in your retirementfunds, if you wanna put it in a
different light, a be a better light.
Yep.
Is what is the run rate in themarket and how do you play the game.
Where do you take more risk?
Where do you not take risk based onyour age of the company and yourself?
Yeah, like I'm at the end of my career,and my husband and I are evaluating
(13:07):
our retirement fund, and I have a highrisk account, and he's older than me.
He's retired.
Mm-hmm.
And he has a low risk account.
Mm-hmm.
Because he wants the longevity ofthat money to stay stable, especially
in today's macroeconomics world.
Right?
And so that mindset is how I playin the CMO role is where's the risk
and the reward going to come from?
(13:27):
That's right.
And how do I optimize and maximize themoney that I have in a marketing budget
or in a sales budget or whatever it is tothe end of what is the board asking for?
Are we a late stage in their funding?
Mm-hmm.
Are we early stage in their funding?
Are they a new private equity orVC fund because they need a win.
Right.
So understanding the dynamics of whoyour owners are, what their objective
(13:52):
is, what the CEO's role in that is.
Yeah.
Whether that is a builder or anoperator or whether that is a
run the business kind of person.
Mm-hmm.
Those are all things that Ilook at when I'm taking roles
or I'm looking at companies.
Matt Heinz (14:06):
Why do you prioritize coming to an event like this?
I mean, you know, it's a hassle to travel.
We all get comfortable workingfrom our home offices these days.
It's so easy to do things through Zoom.
I mean, all the keynotes and thingsthat are happening in the other room.
We can all watch those on YouTube later.
Yeah.
Why is it important stillto come here in person?
Helen Baptist (14:22):
Well, first off, there are new entries into the marketplace mm-hmm.
From a vendor perspective.
So I'm always looking at who those areand who's investing in their marketing
and what kind of marketing they're doing.
So I'm trying to Yeah.
Steal some potentialbest practices or not.
Yeah, yeah.
Avoid the dumpster firesthat we talk about a lot.
That's right.
I also come to reaffirm my knowledgeand my skillset from basically
(14:44):
the ARs obviously the analysts.
I also get some confidence from myselfin terms of I am doing the right things.
Mm-hmm.
Or I'm actually ahead of some of thethings that they're talking about.
Yeah.
And more importantly, I think forme it's about the relationships.
Right.
So I can walk around,it's like old home week.
Mm-hmm.
(15:04):
And I see a lot of people and I'veseen clients, I've seen prospects,
I've seen former employees, I've seensome of the analysts I've worked with.
Mm-hmm.
And for me it's about thecommunity of B2B marketers.
Matt Heinz (15:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I would agree.
I think there's conversationsyou can have efficiently.
Mm-hmm.
Air quotes, from your home office, fromzoom, from digital channels, but there's
a depth of relationship that happens inperson that is irreplaceable elsewhere,
like you mentioned getting to know peopleon a personal level, like you and I have
talked about sick and dying parents.
Helen Baptist (15:37):
That's right.
Matt Heinz (15:38):
Latane and I met at a conference and, within five
minutes we were talking aboutour neurodiverse children.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And I can almost guarantee thatthat connection helped spark the
relationship we had, which turnedinto a business relationship.
And then here we are five yearslater doing CMO Coffee Talk together.
That wouldn't have happened if we weren'ttogether at a conference in Toronto.
Helen Baptist (15:55):
That's right.
And I think one of the things my mom saidis you'll always be authentically Helen.
Yep.
And I think the ability to beauthentic in human, in person adds
just this exponential multiplier ofbeing able to be vulnerable Yeah.
(16:15):
Or being human when you are on camera.
Yeah.
And so I'm forever gratefulfor, going through the five
year journey with you all.
Mm-hmm.
At CMO Coffee Talks.
I was on the first one,which was March 20th.
You were 2019.
Yeah.
It was the first week of shutdown.
Mm-hmm.
In the United States and Canada.
That's right.
And that was a tumultuoustime in life, right?
(16:36):
Mm-hmm.
We didn't know, was it theend of the world and then few
weeks later was George Floyd.
Mm-hmm.
And we were managing people's lives.
We had a lot of people looking to usto make informed decisions, and yet we
weren't any more informed than they were.
Right.
And so this community has reallyallowed me to accelerate personally,
(16:57):
professionally, emotionally,psychologically, there is a
psychological safety within thisgroup as well, is what I wanna say.
Matt Heinz (17:03):
Yeah.
No, I appreciate that.
And that is something that I'm veryproud of, to have a place where people
lean in with each other, but also feellike they can sort of be themselves.
Yeah.
Admit to all of our fallibility.
Do you remember we did asession on imposter syndrome?
We had an author come and do a talkwho's written a book about it, and at
one point in the session we said, raiseyour hand if you have felt like or
feel like you have imposter syndrome.
Helen Baptist (17:23):
Yep.
Matt Heinz (17:23):
And I think 93% of people raised their hand.
And the other 7% werenot paying attention.
They must have been multitasking,
Helen Baptist (17:29):
riding their bikes or walking.
Right.
Exactly.
Matt Heinz (17:31):
Which is totally fine.
It's totally fine.
But like I had people call mefor both sessions afterward.
Multiple people say, Ithought it was just me.
No, and these are heads of marketing.
These are very successful senior peoplewho have clearly been very successful
in their career and yet, A, they haveimposter syndrome and B, they thought
they were the only ones with it.
Helen Baptist (17:47):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
I think, as, again, I've beenin the business for too long.
I have imposter syndrome, I'mchanging jobs again and that
interview process and the rejection.
But I had this conversation with awoman this morning actually at the
Empowered CMO breakfast, and I try todiverge from what is my job mm-hmm.
To balancing, how do I make otherpeople grow and feel better?
(18:12):
Okay.
Yeah.
Right.
When things are shitty atwork, sometimes the wins that
other people are having Yeah.
Allows me the grace to feelgood every now and then, right?
That I've done something right?
Mm-hmm.
By promoting people, giving themopportunities to stretch, try new things.
It's fun to see peoplegrow in their career Yeah.
Or want to work with you again.
Matt Heinz (18:31):
Yeah.
There's a book I think we talked aboutbefore called From Strength to Strength,
and it talks about moving from the mostproductive times in your lives, which
usually is like late twenties, earlythirties, into later stages of your life.
And I'm not at the end of my careeryet but I'm closing in on 50 and
I know that I got a lot of timeto go, but, the book talks about
going from dynamic intelligence,meaning you are doing and building
(18:52):
things to crystallize intelligence.
When all of your experiencein learnings becomes wisdom.
Yeah.
Something you could not havehad earlier in your career.
Something that is, was frustratingto me early in my career.
'cause I just wanted to movefaster, but you literally need
the time to get to the at bats.
And so even though you cannot producewhat you could in your earlier
days, that knowledge is priceless.
Yeah.
And so to be able to think ofthat as like, this is now part
(19:14):
of my gift back to others.
So the question I guess, this is thefirst time I've heard you say you're
towards the end of your career.
I cannot imagine youretiring, first of all.
I just, I don't understandthat, but as someone who's like
thinking about that mm-hmm.
What advice do you have for othersthat are starting to come in here?
For others that aren't at that stageand really haven't thought about it and
have no idea how to even think about it.
Helen Baptist (19:33):
Yeah.
Matt Heinz (19:33):
What would be your advice to them?
Helen Baptist (19:37):
So it's contextual.
I'll say this.
My mother never graduated high school.
Mm-hmm.
She had dyslexia and yet she wasone of the smartest women in the
world and one of the kindest Yeah.
She passed away a year and a half agoand there were 300 people at her wake.
Yeah.
Why?
Because she gave back to people Yeah.
In ways that they didn't even realize.
Yeah.
(19:58):
And so if you are starting outyour career, if you are climbing.
Think about what legacy you want to leave.
Mm-hmm.
And how do you start layingthose stones that become the
path for others to trail on.
Mm-hmm.
My personal one, and I've been working onit for 15 years, is resume making moments.
Mm-hmm.
How do I give people the opportunityand how do I tell them that they've
(20:23):
actually had the resume making moment?
'cause many people don't recognize it.
That's, that's the other part, right?
That's right.
Is how do I give people the opportunity?
How do I stretch 'em?
How do I tap into their passion?
Yeah.
To either guide them inthe role they're in mm-hmm.
Or find them another new role Right.
Where they can be highly successful.
Right.
And yet I often sit down and I say topeople, you know you just had a resume
(20:44):
making moment and I did this recently.
Yeah.
And the person I was talkingto was like, what do you mean?
And I said, you have just createdsomething that didn't exist here.
Matt Heinz (20:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Helen Baptist (20:53):
And so as you are growing up in your career is, think about.
What your legacy might be.
How will people talkabout you at your funeral?
Because this is a job and nobody's gonnatalk about how good you were at your job.
What you're gonna talk aboutis how were you as a human?
Matt Heinz (21:10):
I think about that at work, and I increasingly
think about that at home.
My kids are 15, 14, and 11, and Idistinctly remember all of them being
born, and yet now my daughter isdriving and thinking about college.
And I was telling someone earliertoday, like I travel for work a lot.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not there every day.
But I have never missed one of myson's wrestling meets, my daughter
and I have a tradition of goingto the Nutcracker every year.
(21:32):
And this year we're gonna go see Romeoand Juliet at Pacific Northwest Ballet.
And I wanted to see it and Iwasn't sure if she'd want to, but
she's like, yeah, we're going.
Helen Baptist (21:38):
Yeah.
Matt Heinz (21:38):
And it's those moments.
You know, last night she was having atough time on stuff, so we just called and
talked for 40 minutes through some things.
And even though I'm not there, justbeing there and being present and having
those moments, life is a long time.
Yes.
And you can't be present all the time,but you can create those connections,
you can create those moments,you can prioritize those moments.
That's right.
(21:59):
And it costs you nothing.
Helen Baptist (22:00):
It's interesting.
My son is 26 and I went to a wedding,and he was the best man in the wedding.
And I've never seen him speak publicly.
Yeah.
Except for high school.
Right.
You don't see it in collegedoing presentations.
He has a full-time job.
I don't see him do his job.
Yeah.
And yet people came up to meafterwards and said, great speech.
But he's a great guy.
Matt Heinz (22:21):
Yeah.
Helen Baptist (22:22):
And that's the legacy that I have in him.
Matt Heinz (22:25):
Yeah.
Helen Baptist (22:25):
I want that for people who I know and work with.
Matt Heinz (22:29):
You know, it is such a simple answer, but I think about
what's gonna make for a successful kid.
And I think about thatfor all of our kids.
And I worry about all of them, but I thinkI want them to launch with good values,
with good heads on their shoulders.
I want people to thinkof them as good people.
Yeah.
Right.
Like you think about like peopleyou hire, like you can hire people
that are technically proficientat their job but are assholes.
Helen Baptist (22:48):
Yeah.
Matt Heinz (22:48):
And so you can hire people that are good value.
I want values fit culture adds,and I want those people where
that high degree of trust exists.
Yeah.
What we're doing here isnot rocket science, right?
Like it's gettingincreasingly more difficult.
But this literally is not rocket science.
This is a teachable thing.
I'd rather find people thatare the right foundation.
Yeah.
And build a business based on that,especially as a services business.
Helen Baptist (23:11):
Yeah.
I totally agree with you.
I think the values that you havein your home life and what other
values people have as well.
And look, I grew up all around the world.
Mm-hmm.
My parents were in the mining business.
I've lived in Indonesia.
I went to boarding school in Singapore.
Yeah.
I've traveled around theworld probably 10 times.
The ability to assimilateinto a new environment.
(23:33):
Yeah.
I got that from travelingand moving around the world.
I was the blonde girl inan Indonesian village.
Mm-hmm.
I was the outcast.
Yeah.
And so my tolerance for other peoplesand perspectives is different.
Yeah.
And so I think, what values do you have?
How can you bring other people'svalues to your value pool?
(23:55):
How do you align, how doyou interview for those?
That's part of being a good CMO as well.
Yeah, right.
Is interviewing, so anyway.
Matt Heinz (24:01):
Yeah,
Helen Baptist (24:02):
I diverge.
Matt Heinz (24:02):
I love it.
Helen, thank you for doing this.
My life is better from getting toknow you in the last five plus years.
I just really appreciate your insights.
You've inspired me andchallenged me and just I'm so
proud to consider you a friend.
So thank you.
Yeah,
Helen Baptist (24:14):
Matt, we've had some tough conversations in the last couple
of months and so on and so forth,but I think the ability to have those
conversations is because we are verygood friends and we've invested in
each other, and so keep investing.
I am grateful for seeing youat five o'clock your time every
Friday morning on CMO Coffee Talk.
If you're not part of CMO Coffee Talk,and you are CMO or Head of Marketing.
(24:36):
Reach out to Matt or Latane.
Matt Heinz (24:37):
Love to have you.
Absolutely.
Helen Baptist (24:38):
The value in those relationships is impossible
to measure, but truly there.
But thank you, Matt, forhaving me on your podcast.
I'm so thrilled to be here.
Matt Heinz (24:45):
Thank you for being here.
Thanks for making the timeand, enjoy the rest of the day.
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