October 15, 2025 • 65 mins
Today, we’re honoured to welcome Garvin Pinette to the show—a proud father, passionate public servant, archery champion, and a man who’s turned his deepest struggles into powerful fuel for change.
Garvin is a Correctional Officer and Peer Support Coordinator with Manitoba Corrections, and the founder of the department’s first-ever Peer Support Program and Trauma-Informed Care Committee. After surviving three traumatic events early in his career and receiving a PTSD diagnosis, Garvin faced down some of the darkest days of his life—and chose to fight, not just for himself, but for the mental wellness of others in uniform.
He partnered with the MGEU to launch the Healthy Minds at Work Campaign, building out a full Peer Support Training Program. Today, Garvin is a full-time Staff Trainer, a Divisional Coordinator, and a recognized mental health leader in first responder circles.
But that’s just part of the story.
Check out Garvin on Instagram @gcandostuff
This episode was sponsored by Matthew Stevenson Insurance.
Website: https://matthew-stevenson.ca/#work
This episode's Dad Jokes Sponsor is Spicer Landscaping and Snow Removal.
The Clothing and Swag Sponsor of the show is OneBone Clothing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
This Shit My Dad Taught Me episode is brought to you by an
amazing sponsormatthew-stevenson.ca.
He's wealth strategy, tax smart,estate smart, legacy smart.
Thank you Matt. Shit My Dad Taught me.
Shit, my dad taught me. Oh yeah.
Welcome. Thank you.
Thank you for having me. I'm great.
We're so lucky to have you, man.I, we're just talking a few
minutes before we got going hereand we're kind of joking about
(00:26):
how we open the show, which is with our ChatGPT, do a little
R&D, phone it in. You don't have much of an online
footprint. I hope not very little.
Man, But I'll tell you though, the stuff it did find was super
interesting. So if it's all right with you,
let me introduce you to our listeners too.
So we are sitting here today with Garvin Pinnett.
And I said it right, Let's go off to a good start.
(00:49):
So it goes on to say today we have Garvin Pinnett to the show.
He's a proud father, a passionate public servant,
archery champion, and a man who's turned his deepest
struggles into powerful fuel forchange.
Pretty good, right? He's a correctional officer and
peer support coordinator with Manitoba Corrections and the
founder of the department's first ever Peer support Program
(01:13):
and Trauma Informed Care Committee.
After surviving 3 traumatic events early on in his career
and receiving PTSD diagnosis, hethen faced down some of the
darkest days of his life and he chose to fight not just for him,
but for mental Wellness and for others in uniform.
Let's go. He partnered with the MGEU to
(01:35):
launch the Healthy Minds at Workcampaign, building out a full
peer support training program. Today, Garvin is a full time
staff trainer, a divisional coordinator, and a recognized
mental health leader in the first responder circles.
But that's just part of a story,and that's why we have him here
today. Thank you for all you do man.
(01:56):
Thanks for. All you do, you guys are more
prepared than I am. Well, I wouldn't say we are so
Chris and Chad GBT Yeah, I don'tprepare for shit.
Bad. Listen, I I know how busy you
are. I know you're at a big speaking
engagement this weekend. Yeah.
So I want to make sure I say thanks for making the time.
It means a lot to us on this show.
(02:18):
We love talking about mental health, specifically men's
mental health. So we can go in 100 different
directions with this, but I'll tell you where I want to start.
If it's OK with you. Just tell me a little bit about
how you grew up. How I grew up I grew up in
Winnipeg, MB. My dad was from Trinidad, my mom
(02:38):
from a small town just outside near Dauphin, so rural Manitoba.
But I they, I grew up in Winnipeg.
My parents separated when I was like 5 years old, played
football. My upbringing was really good.
My dad moved away for work for afew years and came back and then
(03:05):
yeah, I would say I had a reallygood childhood.
My mom is a sweetheart. She like comes out everything
with kindness. You know, money wasn't always
there, but we we had a lot of love and and kindness in the
home. And I couldn't ask for more than
that. Yeah.
What's Mom's first name? Carmel.
Shout out, Carmel. Yeah, Thank you.
(03:27):
Love that. Oh, yeah.
So as you're growing up, how'd things go?
How did you? Because obviously you've got a
pretty extensive career. How'd you find your way into
that? Wow.
I kind of went all over the place.
So I wasn't good at school. I struggled with school.
I don't. I didn't know then that I had
dyslexia and ADHD, and so schoolwas always difficult.
(03:50):
The grades were challenging to get.
I ended up dropping out at like,well, I'd go to school.
I'd go to school at like grade 10 and then they had these
absence rules. So like after like 5 or 6
absences, you'd be kicked out. But I'd always go start school
because that's where all my friends were.
And then I'd hang out in the cafeteria or whatever.
(04:12):
Yeah, what's that you? Get your grade 10.
I so I, I joke because I stayed in school 'cause that's where my
friends were, but I never finished many classes.
Like I got like art and mechanics and those fun ones.
And then I was supposed to graduate. 2000, 2001 I was a
(04:33):
super senior, did the same thing. 2002 They put me into
that mature student diploma program.
Mr. Mahar, Mr. Mahar got me thatdiploma.
He, he would stay with me at like lunch, we'd work on things
together. Just one teacher getting it done
got me those 4 credits I needed for that mature student diploma.
(04:57):
Football was a big part of all of that, like that group, but it
wasn't school football's community.
So I didn't have to like be at school to play ball.
But yes, my friends were all there and stuff and so I still
wanted to be at school. I just didn't want to do the
work or didn't understand why I couldn't do it.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I feel the same lot.
Lot to love about school. Except the school.
(05:18):
Yeah, that's right. I didn't get through grade 10.
That's about as far as I went. I was the same thing, man.
I remember and shout out to my dad, who would make the time to
drive me to school sometimes. Sometimes I'm walking, sometimes
I'm taking the bus, but he'd drive me.
And like, literally, I remember my silly ass walking in,
waiting, walking back out. And I did that more than once.
It was the calf for sure, but itwas also like we had like a big
(05:40):
park ravine where we were and itwas like I just was focused on
the wrong shit, man. Yeah.
Or, or was it the right shit? Well.
I. Mean people like obviously with
dyslexia and ADHD, I mean, thoseare, you know, that's a lot to
work with. But like for me it was just not
my learning style. Like.
I learned if I can, you know, dohands on, if I can watch
something happening, if I can get that kind of instruction,
(06:02):
then I got it right away. But sitting in a desk was not
me. Still isn't to this day.
No, yeah, I have a hard time sitting and still period.
But. And and not making excuses.
Part of it was that I just didn't want to be in those
classes, but yeah. Yeah, so then you graduate, you
got a mature student diploma andthen what'd?
(06:23):
You do. So I did the usual stuff.
My like, I I worked in a kitchenfor a little while.
I worked at some gas stations. I worked for my stepdad who had
like this. He worked at a a sheet metal
shop. He's the first person that fired
me, actually. Yeah.
Yeah, Gil, he's an amazing guy. He he, he had hired me on and I
(06:46):
just kept showing up late. Like I'd be there 5 minutes
late, but I'd be there. I just wouldn't punch in in
time. I'd be at the back of the line.
So I remember him trying. So like, he's like, Garden, you
know, if you could be 5 minutes late, you could be 5 minutes
early. I'm like, oh, yeah, for sure.
It's easier said than done, though.
And he'd leave the same house asme, right.
(07:09):
And yeah, just whatever I saw athis, at his retirement party, I
told that story. And afterwards, he came up to me
and he's like, you know how hardthat was to do?
Like, I guess his boss had been on him for a while about letting
me go. And he kept trying to help me.
But no. Yeah.
First job I got fired by my stepdad.
(07:30):
Yeah, yeah. Just as easy to be 5 minutes
earlier than it is late. That's right.
Yeah, OK. Yeah.
So, so I, and then I was an apprentice at a tattoo shop for
a while and I did tattoos for a little while and that kind of
carried me into. I also started working security
at the same time because that you didn't make a lot of money
(07:50):
there. You'd make money off like
piercings and stuff like that, but the artists would make the
money. And I do a lot of the drawing
and I love drawing. And then from there we went to
or I was doing the security for Manitoba housing, which was a
tough job. That's like our welfare housing
(08:13):
in in Manitoba. And my buddy came over and he's
like, do you want to meet for lunch?
I was the operations manager or something there at the time
going to meet for lunch. I'm going to do this testing for
the province and, and I got sometime in between.
I'm like, what's, what's the testing?
It's like corrections really. What, what, what's going on?
(08:37):
Like what do you have to do? He's like, I don't know.
I just applied. I got an auto reply.
You got to go write these tests and if you pass, then you get an
interview. I'm like, oh man, I'm going to
jump in on that. So like the day before that
testing, I submitted to this auto e-mail, it shoot me back an
e-mail to go do this testing. And I went in this Convention
(08:59):
Center and there was like 400 people there writing the test
and it just weaned you down every time.
And I remember getting, so there's this number that follows
me around and it's annoying because I got a tattooed on my
arm now and there's like this Instagram thing with it or some
of the kids are doing whatever they're doing 6-7.
Yeah, fuck. And it's unfinished there.
(09:25):
You literally got that yesterday.
You're trying to keep up the trends.
Oh no, that's fucking jokes. OK, mine's always been 6-8 but
it was because of yogurt. So I get the number and my
number is 67. So I'm like this just feels
right. Like this corrections thing just
feels right. Anyway, I got through the
testing, training was relativelyquick and like 9 weeks later as
(09:50):
a correctional officer. Crazy.
Yeah, it's a big turn and choices.
That's right. What was step dad saying going
how the fuck are you going to dothis job?
So I can't even show up for workat that point.
I moved out already. But yeah, I moved out pretty
early too. I moved out at like 1718 and
(10:12):
then bailed, went back home, Momtook me back in and then I went.
Then I moved out with some friends again, all right.
And right around this time when I was getting into corrections
and things kind of changed for me at that point.
When did you meet my buddy Bob? That's how we met, obviously,
(10:34):
like one of my good buddies growing up was was Bob and
you've been working with him fora long time and he's he's a
great guy. Shout out my buddy Bob gave you
the gave you the hat to wear today too.
Respected redneck hat. That's right.
You've been doing lots of work, too.
But Bobby, yeah, I mean, we've been in corrections the same
amount of time, but we never metuntil recently.
(10:56):
We were trying to help a buddy out that was going through a
tough time, and we connected through peer support and yeah,
he was organizing all this stuffand making sure that his buddy
was taken care of and all the guys that were going through
this situation was taken care of.
(11:16):
And you know, you can't ignore something like that.
Like when somebody is going out of their way to help people, you
just see it, right? And so I was working from the
other end at that point, I was officially in a peer support
role. Like it's voluntary on top of my
regular duties. But so I was able to help him.
And I just saw this guy working his ass off every day.
(11:40):
And he was stressed and worried,but it wasn't about him.
It was about making sure those guys had what they needed or
their family or whatever. So as they worked through the
trial and everything, we got closer and closer.
And you know, when you when somebody like that comes into
your life, you just keep them asclose as you can.
Right? Yeah.
(12:00):
And yeah, he's just a good shit.He's always been a beauty.
Yeah. Yeah.
He speaks super highly of you. Oh.
That's good. Yeah, I got him fooled for sure.
Yeah. How's the So what does that look
like? Man that's that Seems like a
super fast training period. That seems like you're jumping
in a direction on a whim, following some numbers.
(12:22):
That's right. What does that?
Look like you Sure. It's got to be a culture show.
Like it was, at least it was I, so I always knew I wanted to
work with kids. So I ended up working at the
youth center. Bobby worked at Headingley, so
adult men's and I worked with youth, mostly female youth as
well at the time. But yeah, it was, it was quite
(12:45):
the culture shock. I mean, I didn't grow up wanting
to be a correctional officer forsure.
It just kind of fell into my lap.
But when I was able to connect it to working with kids, which I
always wanted to work with, I always felt like I could make a
difference there. And I always said as long as I'm
working with them and like they're connecting with me, then
(13:08):
I'll keep doing that kind of work.
So it was, it was pretty overwhelming at first, like to
walk in and yeah, just, and I think that's how I ended up down
that mental health Rd. for sure.I wasn't equipped properly or I
(13:28):
didn't have the life experience or who however that played out
to be ready for what I was goingto see inside those jails.
And I came from a good home. I didn't come from, like, trauma
on top of trauma on top of abuseand addiction and all that
stuff, right? And so that wasn't part of my
(13:49):
regular, right. I knew it was out there, but all
of a sudden now it was right in front of me.
Yeah. And Chachi PT says that you've
had like two or three pretty traumatic things that have that
have come up or happened or thatyou've had to deal with.
Yeah. Do you mind going into any of
those? No.
Man, that's what I'm here to do.Yeah.
So about. So the youth center is it's a
(14:14):
mostly remanned jail for youth 12 to 18.
Some stayed longer. And at the time the youth were
like, now addiction has taken over.
It's it's difficult to like connect, but they're still,
(14:35):
they're still good kids in there.
And I always say to everybody like, doesn't matter what
they're doing when they're awake, when you go to your round
at night and you see a kid sleeping with their back up
against the wall in a fetal position, you still just see a
kid, right? And so these these youth are
just coming with so many struggles.
(14:56):
And when I got there, I just realized that I could be that
guy that just brought some fun and some excitement into that
part. Our job wasn't to punish them
more. You know, they did get sentenced
and they ended up staying there to do their time as well.
But that's not my job to punish them any more than they need to
(15:18):
be. My job is to show them good
values and be a good role model.But do things like graffiti
program, you know, where you would pay to get a mural done or
something, not just tagging on stuff.
Even though I did that as a kid,basketball programs, workout
programs, we'd have a lot of funat work.
(15:40):
But three years in and I remember in our training, the
training officer said that they,they, they trained us in assist
prevention intervention and theysaid that they hadn't had a
completed suicide in Manitoba corrections like just period.
Nobody knocked on wood and they just made that statement.
(16:02):
So the first suicide, I was on shift but not directly involved.
And it was a youth, female youththat took her life.
And I saw more the way that thatinner like affected the staff
that we're working with her. And then we had to work in those
units after. And just like I was affecting
(16:25):
the other youth that were in there.
And the timelines on all of these are kind of messed up
still for me. But the second one was directly
involved with me. She was a youth on my caseload.
So we're case managers. Our biggest job, I would say, is
to make sure people don't come back into custody.
(16:48):
So like release planning, makingsure that they they have
something to go out to. They're not just going to come
back and make more victims. And so she was on my caseload.
We connected, we talked every night and so I was supposed to
talk to her at 9:00. We have an institutional
response team and when shit's popping off, you got to go
(17:10):
handle it. So we had an incident around
8:30. I went and helped with that and
at 9:30 they called the code red, which is a medical
emergency. So jetted off to go that and it
was her and she had she had tiedup and was behind the door.
(17:32):
So we had to get into the door. I remember all kinds of stuff,
you know, like the color of her skin, the sound the body made as
we tried to do CPR. I was with two amazing Cos that
used to or JCS, juvenile counselors, what we call
ourselves at the youth centers who used to be paramedics.
(17:53):
So lots of medical experience there.
I'm a volunteer firefighter, butI didn't have that training at
that time. And yeah, we worked on her,
worked on her and they, they brought her back.
But I remember the one guy looking over at me and saying
she's gone, man. They're just going to take her
to the hospital and the family'sgoing to say goodbye.
And the in charge officer came and asked me to go on the
(18:18):
ambulance and follow her to the hospital.
And somebody else, I can't remember who it was, said no,
like he's not going. He's too like they could see it
on me. And so went through the motions
and I felt OK after, you know, these girls were struggling with
(18:38):
so much and that that wasn't lost on me.
But we did everything we could. And after that, we had a bunch
of, we had a, a youth that was in custody that had been
released and then taken her own life in the community and she
was connected to us. These kids come in and out their
entire life, right? And we're asked to connect with
(19:01):
them on a different level. But once they get into the
community, our, our job stops and the community workers jobs
start there. There's really no transition
into that, right, Unless we makethe effort to connect them so.
Which has got to be tough on both sides.
Oh, it's terrible, man. They still, I still have kids
(19:22):
that that call me and tell me how they're doing.
So this next one, which is actually the one that I think
affects me the most. We were, we, I was in the unit,
a female unit doing rounds or whatever, and she was, she was
in her room. I didn't know her all that well,
(19:45):
but I knew of her from the unit and they they at the end of the
night, we got to do these checks.
So we go around, check the roomsand I push on the door again and
it like I knew she was in there,but I couldn't get the door
open. So I'm like in my prime football
(20:06):
days. So I'm 330 lbs or whatever.
I don't fit through a door easily right?
So I like. Push on this heavy steel door
that opens to the inside and I finally get through it and the
door closes behind me and I realize she's behind the door,
so very similar to the other girl but she's up in the air.
(20:29):
So I grab her and I put her up on my shoulder and there's
nothing there. Like it's just dead weight.
So I'm like trying to get it loose.
And as I get it loose, she starts fighting like coming back
and I'm working, working that, trying to get the thing loose
(20:49):
from the hinge. Meanwhile, I guess her roommate
or somebody knew that something was going on.
So they got the attention of allthe staff, called the necessary
code for backup, but nobody could get in because we're stuck
behind the door. So now I'm stuck in the door
trying to get her and if I let her down.
Yeah. The pressure's back on, right?
(21:10):
I can't remember how long that was, but at some point I
unhooked it and we fell away from the door and she was fine.
She recovered. So I I got in there just in the
right time. The next day I came into work
and she wanted to talk and say thank you.
(21:30):
She had this scar around her neck.
I remember, but that girl still calls me today and she tells me
about her kids. She's got these two dogs that
she calls her kids. She's living up in Thompson, MB.
And she'll call me every now andthen.
Then, yeah. So we get some wins in
corrections, but that one sits with me for sure.
(21:52):
Yeah. That's heavy.
Yeah. It's just, you know, when
you're, when you have, you know,as a dude and a, a guy that like
people look to for all the solutions and the, you know, the
problem solver and you don't have an answer for a situation
you're in. It's scary as fuck.
And I was scared in there. I didn't know what to do.
(22:12):
She was like pissing on me. Like I could, I just knew that I
was in a situation where I just needed to hold on, but I didn't
have the answer. Yeah.
At what point when you're going through those situations, do you
realize yourself that like you've probably got to talk to
somebody Like was it right afterany of those?
(22:33):
Or like you have to go through aprocess for a while before you
came to the point where you're like, I've got to deal with
this. Yeah, I had to.
I had to find out the hard way. Yeah.
And sadly, that's that's the waymost people, yeah, find out.
Yeah. So I'd say it took me, you know,
(22:53):
if we skipped a bunch of steps, took me about three years to get
to the point where I knew something was really wrong.
But slowly after that, like I never took time off work, you
know, proud, whatever. I don't even know if I needed it
because taking time off work sometimes isn't the best thing
to just sit in your thoughts. And my obsessiveness kind of
(23:14):
helps me along the way now achieve a lot of things.
But we, I went back to work and we had those incidents just keep
happening, right? Like that was a, there was no
more completed suicides, thank God.
And our work adjusted to make sure that the youth were safe.
(23:35):
There was training that came outand eventually that kind of
stopped again. But the trauma was still there.
Those kids were still there. And you could see like the self
harm and yeah, it's just very difficult to see.
And so I think the first thing Inoticed was that I wasn't really
(23:58):
the good guy I used to be. Like I was having trouble going
home. I was drinking more than I
should. And then I was kind of the life
of the party. So everybody had a young family,
just one daughter at the time. I have two, Hunter and Hazel and
my wife, Michelle. And at the time I, I would
(24:22):
really struggle to go home when I really like to go home.
And then the next thing that happened was I was having
trouble going into work. And I, I remember driving down
the highway and being like, if Iran into that pole, I wouldn't
have to go to work. And I live outside of the city,
(24:43):
so just a little town, just about a 20 minute, 30 minute
drive outside the city. So it's a nice drive.
I always appreciated it. Never a semi on that highway
that I remember, but this one night I was driving home and
there was a semi on the highway.And I remember thinking, if I
hit that semi, I wouldn't have to go to work.
Like that's, that's the thought process was like, this would be
(25:07):
my excuse. Like everybody would understand
that. So that was obviously getting a
little scary. Then one day I was watching
Hunter, my daughter, she was probably 4.
We hadn't had Hazel yet. And I'm in my house day off, did
(25:28):
a bunch of stuff. I have an acre and a half.
I love working in the yard. I'm an outdoors guy through and
through. And I had come inside.
Michelle was working because at that time we're probably
working, you know, like that ship's in the whatever, just
passing by. So she's working evenings.
I'm I'm probably just off that day or whatever.
(25:50):
I don't remember all the details, but I remember being
like, oh, I should check on hunter.
So I go upstairs and I she's gota bedroom right up the stairs,
Eh, So I go up the stairs, I go to open the door and it doesn't
fucking open and I'm like, holy fuck.
Instantly I'm at the jail. I could smell it.
I can see it, I can feel it. The door, the wooden door with a
(26:14):
regular door handle felt cold, like a jail door.
I got goosebumps now and I pushed on that door so hard I
almost knocked it off the hinges.
It still has a hole where my shoulder kind of went in.
And my sweet 4 1/2 year old daughter is sitting there
playing Barbies. She's got Barbie in each hand
looking terrified at her dad andI'm like fuck.
(26:37):
So I guess there's a backpack behind the door just offering
enough resistance to give me that trigger.
And I was like, holy shit. Like, you know, that look on her
face, she doesn't remember it. I've talked to her a couple
times about it, that that look on her face bothered me more
than a lot of things, right? So I was like, this is a problem
(27:00):
here. And then maybe that wasn't even
enough too, because I remember at some point I got to the point
where I wasn't sleeping at all. I'm, I'm back, I'm struggling
again now I'm having panic attacks and stuff and we'll
probably get into that later. But the, the fear of going to
sleep is for real when you don'tknow what you're going to see.
(27:22):
And sometimes it's the last people you see that you that
come at those times, right? So that that those triggers, you
know, makes sleep very scary. So I did, I did stop sleeping
for a while and then I went to go see my doctor and I kind of I
felt like the sleep was more medical like that was easier as
(27:45):
a dude to explain to the doctor that I just couldn't sleep.
Now you got to help me out here,right?
Like drinking doesn't help sleeping.
It just keeps you up more, right?
And so like, what do I got to do?
And I was expecting like a pill or conversation of some kind or
(28:05):
whatever. And he's like, well, you should
probably go start by talking to somebody like if that's what's
going on. He could just tell.
Yeah, I'm like fuck. All right, so we have EFAP
through work, like counselors and stuff, so employee family
assistance programs. But he was also like, you can
get a counselor through us. We have 1 here and I can get you
(28:26):
in to see her. Whatever.
So I think there was 55, what doyou call it appointments that I
could go to. And so I met with this counselor
and we hit it off. She was a sweetheart.
She she is a social worker and worked with youth.
And we just started talking mostly about work.
(28:49):
Like I had a young family, but we talked about work and I told
her about those suicides and stuff.
And afterwards, she told me, youknow, what might be helpful is
if you journal. And I was like, like journal.
Like, really? Fucking hates going on.
Yeah, like at least nobody else would have to read it, right,
(29:11):
because you wouldn't understand what I wrote down anyway.
But she's like, yeah, if you journal everything like the way,
like start with that incident and and write out like the
everything you saw, you heard, you smelled, like, what your
thoughts were. And I'm like, it can't be that
simple, like, you know, but whatever.
(29:33):
I was desperate, and I had a family that was counting on me.
And I love my job, like I reallydo.
I wanted to keep doing it. And so I went back and I went to
work. I did this journal thing.
And so every night I would writeit.
I would write down. And then I also took some time
during the day to like, focus onthe incidents.
And I wrote everything down. I don't think I realized how
(29:55):
guilty I felt until I wrote it down that I felt like it was my
fault that I never went to talk to her at that certain time.
And that and that's almost selfish in a way that I would
think that like this random guy that's working at the youth
center would affect this kid whogrew up with layers and layers
of trauma and terrible things that happened to her.
(30:17):
And she just had enough, right? Like as if I had anything to do
with that. But that was sitting on me.
So I went back to the second counseling session and she
wanted me to read it back to her, put it on her and let it
go. So I came with my my book of
thoughts. And I remember like I was kind
(30:37):
of sitting forward just reading it and like even just thinking
about it, it hurts me. But I'm reading it and I get to
the point where I'm doing CPR and I know it's not working.
And I look up and she's bawling.I'm like, fuck, I broke the
counselor. And yeah, she so I, I felt no
(31:03):
longer safe to share in that space.
Like I just felt like I became the counselor at that point.
And I know she was struggling too.
And we never had a second appointment or another
appointment after that. I went to go see somebody else.
But at that point I knew I had to fight for myself.
Like there's a lot of people that would have taken that as
like a it's not going to work, right.
(31:25):
And I think over the course of this, I learned that that's,
that was an important moment forme to be like, I need to go back
to my doctor and try this again.As opposed to they just give up
and like, give in to, to like, man, you're fucked.
Like there's nothing you can do about it.
So it's fucked. Yeah.
(31:48):
Yeah, I should have asked if swearing was OK.
Yeah, I'm guessing it's. In the title, do you man?
So where did your doctor send you?
Where do you go when you put a atherapist through therapy?
Well, after that I went to therapy.
I never went through a WCB claimor anything like that and I
(32:13):
think I just put some time between me and those incidents.
My life was changing too. I had a young family.
My wife was pregnant again. She got very sick with the
pregnancy. So like we're blessed to have
the two kids, but she's allergicto the hormone or something
that's produced during pregnancy.
And so the second pregnancy was really hard.
(32:36):
So I had a 5 year old daughter who needed me and I had my wife
who was bedridden and I had to work the shift work.
I was also becoming a supervisorat work at that time and that
motivated me a little bit. So I, I think the combination of
the psychotherapy with the doctor and kind of talking
(32:59):
things through that came out of my own pocket.
But like I said, you need to need to invest in yourself,
right? And I had a family that was
counting on me. I don't know why the, the claim,
like the work claim was such a hurdle for me, but I just
couldn't do it. Like I, I didn't want to go
through. I wanted to handle it myself.
And so that's, that's what kind of started that.
(33:23):
But along the way I, I was asking the question like, why
didn't anybody get me ready for this?
Like right away I'm thrown into this and these, these kids like
need so much from us. You know, my, my buddy Josh says
the thing that makes you good atthe job makes it a risk for you
(33:46):
to get hurt at the job. So being compassionate, being
empathetic makes you good, but it also opens you up to be here.
And so you have to kind of find that balance.
And so I was asking myself, like, whose responsibility is
this? Who should have protected us or
me from that? Are other people struggling?
That kind of stuff. So I started asking some
(34:07):
questions at some high levels. That's where the MGU came in.
That's our union and I was they,they got behind me on it, talked
to the employer. The employer for sure was like,
yes, we agree, we want to do something.
And so I got put on this trauma informed care committee where we
looked at all kinds of differentagencies and stuff and what they
(34:28):
were doing and found some resiliency programs, made some
recommendations. And at the same time, I figured
if I start a peer support program, they can't tell me I
can't, That's I'm in control of that.
And so I started that at the youth center too.
And I had people that came out of nowhere that just jumped all
over it, like employees. Employees.
(34:50):
Yeah. Yeah.
And you know, there was Marion who had passed.
She was our wreck. Well, she's she was AJC, but she
was working GREC for a long timewhen I was there learning.
She had pushed for this kind of stuff way before.
And so there was a bunch of people that were like, just
(35:11):
waiting for something to happen,right?
And I had an executive director that was like, yeah, let's go.
Like, do as long as you can justify what you're doing and
whatever ever. My Superintendent at the youth
center was amazing, too. And so when the leadership gets
behind it, you know, as long as you can keep people motivated,
(35:33):
you can make something happen. So I had no blueprint.
I didn't really know. The only thing I knew is that a
lot of organizations allow peer support to happen because it
cost them nothing, right? It's all, it's all volunteer.
And so I started reaching out tosome contacts that I had and
that I just made more contacts along the way.
And somewhere along the way, I realized that sharing my story
(35:56):
carried some weight, that everybody thinks that they're
alone, right? And that it's just you.
And if nobody shares, then everybody just thinks that.
And so I would start every meeting or pitch with sharing
that story. And like, like, I'm not just
here because I want, I, you know, I want this.
(36:18):
I'm here because I needed it. And we can make sure that nobody
else is alone through that kind of stuff.
And so it's not perfect, but we're working through it.
And we got a peer support program now there.
And that was part of my healing though, for sure.
And like, I was able to focus myattention there while I put
(36:38):
space between those incidents. And right now is that just that
at your guys facility or is thatlike are are you trying to get
this implemented like no real mental book corrections or?
Yeah, yeah. So right now I'm the coordinator
for the peer support program forall of Manitoba Corrections.
So good for you. Yeah, I'm, I'm happy, really
(36:59):
jacked about that. I'm hoping that it can turn into
like a little division within there and we can make sure that
everybody's getting training andwhat they need.
But we're figuring it out as we go.
I just came back from up north Manitoba where I was doing some
recruiting. But before that I, I did some
training with our jail and the PA, which is like, you know, six
(37:21):
hours away and they're very isolated.
So it's nice our our department's committed to it and
I'm blessed and happy that they give me a chance.
To do it. And in a sense it's got to like
for all the, all the community work and charity work we do,
like it's almost, it's our, it'sour therapy, you know, it helps
our mental health. It's got to be one of those
(37:43):
pieces for you where like, maybeyou're not going to a therapist
as much anymore, but doing this and helping other people get
through it is probably a lot of therapy for you and helps you
kind of, you know, lets you talkabout it more and helps you, you
know, confront it more too, right?
Yeah, exactly. I, it is part of my healing
journey. And then it also, I'm seeing it
help other people, right? And I'm, I'm meeting people like
(38:06):
Bob, like I meet great people all the time that you know, and
I'm also, we, we also run like agroup peer support program in
the community for all first responders.
So one of the biggest challengesfor first responders is that a
lot of the volunteer places you would go for help our clients
(38:27):
are at it's not safe place to bevulnerable, right?
Throw on top of that the alpha part of all of it and you got a
real problem, right? So we, there's this group I'm
coordinating called the OSI canned peer support group and we
got a great ex police officer who shows up every Thursday and
(38:51):
is there whether people show up or not.
And people walk in and they got a safe place to share if they
need to. So there's just different layers
to it. But definitely having that
ability to like help people has helped me for sure.
I, I do see a therapist still and I've kind of ramped that up
(39:13):
again. I mentioned that, you know, I'm,
I'm retriggered by PTSD over thelast six months.
It's been a struggle. I've been having my panic
attacks again and stuff like that.
So I didn't anticipate that my daughter would get to the age of
the youth that were at the jail when that happened.
(39:34):
Oh, so that's the. Reason Trigger.
Yeah, man, that's crazy. My daughter is a teenager.
She's struggling with all kinds of school drama, you know?
Teenager shit, Yeah, that wasn'tlike teenager shit we used.
To deal with. Yeah.
And so those conversations are very similar to the
conversations I would have with the girl prior.
(39:57):
And I love that I can put, I puta chair in her room and I'm just
present every night because right now I'm working Monday to
Friday if I'm not traveling. And that's that's unheard of
when you work this first responder stuff, right.
So I'm really lucky to have worked myself into a position
where I can be home and sit in that chair and have those
conversations with her. But I wasn't ready for that
(40:19):
connection between my daughter and and the the kids I saw at
the East Center. So I'm working through that
right now, yeah. And I guess those conversations
with her, the tough part in yourmind is like drawing lines and
where those conversations go so that, you know, one, it's not
(40:41):
triggering more on you, but you're also not taking those
conversations too deep into places that like she doesn't
need to go either. Exactly like I, I go there very
easily. Because if for work, you're
trained to do that, that's what you're supposed to do.
And the PTSD is for real, right?So I'm I'm automatically
thinking worst case scenario. So like every time somebody says
(41:03):
you got to talk to this person or whatever, it's just like the
worst case scenario, right? So, yeah, and you and you don't
want to overfeed, right? Like you said, I remember my
brother as a a teacher and he told me he's like, yeah, you,
you got to ask them the questions and see where they
want to go with it. Because if you're leading that
(41:24):
conversation, you might go too far down rabbit hole, right?
And you don't like I, I can't come back from that.
So yeah, it's difficult, but it's it's nice to be able to be
there for sure. I miss so much working shift
work with them that I really I really enjoy just being present,
(41:45):
especially in the evening. Tough con rules.
You're a you're a girl dad. So like I'm sitting.
Here, just this is one of these where I just shut up and listen
because it's, it's, I mean, I could go over everything you
just said and tell you the things that you and I, without
knowing each other before today,I've walked in parallel.
I'm huge into youth. I I did a decade at Nelson Youth
(42:07):
Centers and volunteering and we had some losses, right?
I was a part of one of them. And yeah, it's tough.
Yeah, yeah, man. How's how's wife through all
this? Your partner through all this.
She's a. She's a, a beauty man.
She so I, if I have one regret, it's that I didn't share any of
it. So we're sitting there probably
(42:29):
probably three years in when I had my first appointment and I
had to, I had to schedule that with her, you know, to, to try
to tell like I have a kid, whatever, I'm going to be
somewhere. So I got to figure that out.
And she's like, what's this appointment about?
I'm like, oh, I'm going to talk to this therapist.
(42:49):
And at that point I realized it had been that long since those
incidents and I had never told her anything happened.
So I don't know if that was likenot thinking that she can handle
it. We have a lot of like this don't
bring work home kind of culture and whatever.
But Nah, I've learned overtime. Fuck that they can handle it.
They, you know, they may not need the details.
(43:10):
My wife works with people with intellectual disabilities in the
community. She has a very hard job too, and
she she advocates for them. She's such a beautiful soul.
And you know, and no matter whatis going on with me, she's got
the answers right. But I just wish I would have
(43:31):
trusted that earlier. The party was I'm the man.
I'm, I'm not supposed to dump this shit on my wife, right?
I'm supposed to be the the man in the house.
Yeah, and to this guy's. Got to get rid of right?
Oh fuck, you can be the man in the house, but you could still
fucking go to your wife and trust her with shit, right?
Yeah, and I need that reminder. So to this day, she's like, like
(43:54):
even a couple weeks ago, she's like, you don't have to be the
tough one here. Like if this is hard for you, I
got it. Like, but I have to know, right?
Like I have to be, I have to be able to open, openly, share and
all that. So yeah.
That's something I'm still working on too.
It's hard, man. Yeah, yeah.
(44:15):
The hard stuff, for sure, the stuff that was real 'cause, you
know, back then we were just having kids.
And so you kind of think that asa man, as you're like, well, I
better not put any more weight on her.
Yeah, you know, I better shield,protect all those instincts that
you have, right? But it's a balancing act,
because on one hand, she deserves to know why you're in
(44:35):
the headspace you're in, or why you're making the decisions you
are, or why you're you know, butyou don't.
Exactly. You don't until you start to
work on it, until you get a little more Gray hair and your
relationship grows a little deeper.
And then you're like, OK, no, this is this is a team sport.
Yeah, you know, but it takes a while to get there.
Yeah. And she's such a yeah, I
couldn't do it without her. That's all I can say about that.
(44:59):
Yeah. With what you guys are doing in
Manitoba corrections, like with this peer peer setup and all the
support you guys are creating, what other provinces do you
like? Do other provinces, obviously
you've done a ton of research, like does BC have this?
Does Ontario have this or is there nothing in those places
right now? Are you trying to like help that
platform too and push that along?
Well, there's a couple things that kind of work parallel, like
(45:21):
a critical incident stress debriefing, and a bunch of first
responder agencies do adopt or have adopted peer support.
Not too many do formal peer support.
So that's what I'm trying to do,But I did get the model and
worked with some people out of it might even be Burlington
(45:46):
here. They were police officers from
Ontario involved in some pretty serious incidents as well.
They're retired now, but they run a different company training
people on peer support. So I don't know.
I don't think too many jails have formal peer support
(46:08):
programs, but I do know a lot ofjails have started like the
informal just volunteer support programs.
That's. Good.
I can, I can talk to one in Ontario who was a friend of
ours, but actually at the time avery good friend of ours.
I mean, life kind of goes in directions as you move forward.
(46:29):
But he was in corrections, he was a guard, he was at a men's
facility that was in Ontario. And he much like you was, you
know, tough guy. He he was a physical guy.
So a lot of the time and again, the situations would be
different in youth versus men's,but a lot of the time he was the
1st through the door. He was the guy where they're
like, well, he'll get him, you know, in order.
(46:51):
So he saw, I mean, you know, he,he probably didn't even tell me
everything that he saw. He saw a lot.
And there was one instance whereit just wrecked him.
Just not something any of us should see or be a part of or,
or just all right. Again, it's his story to tell.
So I won't, I won't tell it. But the fallout from that was
(47:12):
absolute wreck alcoholism, No sleep, like no sleep.
I would get text from him at like 445 and he was drunk and it
was just like, fuck, you're like, OK, man.
And he didn't have the support. Like I can remember him getting
reprimanded. Like there there's was like, no,
you can't be late or no, you can't miss work.
(47:34):
And because he had that pride piece going at the same time, he
wasn't, you know, championing for his own care.
He was just kind of letting the system navigate his care and the
system just it let him down, man.
He he hit like rock bottom And had, you know, systems like
yours been in place, that probably is a different story
(47:56):
because he's, you know, he's he's a great, he's just a really
likable guy. Like in a peer-to-peer scenario,
he'd be a rock star. Everybody would want him around,
but that didn't exist. So he was doing it in a silo and
he was kind of counting on his friends.
But like we can't, we can't see what he's seen.
It's a different, you know, it'soutsider looking in right.
And then it falls on the family.Like it at the time they, they
(48:18):
didn't have any kids at the time, but he was married and she
didn't know what to do with it. Like it was, it was a mess man.
Then the the the support wasn't there.
And that can create all kinds ofresentment, too, right?
Like, if you don't understand why those behaviors are
happening. And yeah, it's crazy.
Nobody should be alone. Like, that's the number one
(48:39):
thing about the peer support is like, you know, making sure that
we show up, but it's also important that we know when
people are changing. And so it would have been nice
for him to have somebody to be able to say like, hey, man, like
this is fucked up. This is not your normal, right?
What's going on, right? And then just be able to be
(48:59):
there with him for it. It's really simple.
So it doesn't have to be complicated.
Tough gig man. Being a corrections officer,
especially at a youth facility, like totally different situation
there too. So tough gig though man.
Yeah. So what's your look a little bit
forward with us? Like what?
(49:20):
Where do you hope this goes? Where do you hope your
development goes? What are you excited about?
Yeah. Well, I'm able to retire at 50.
I'm able to retire at 50. So I'm eight years away from
that, but got a young family still.
So as far as the working in corrections, right now, I'm a
(49:43):
staff trainer. That's my Monday to Friday.
So I'm training our new correctional officers so I get
them first. So I'm loving being able to do
that. So I hope to stay there for a
while. As far as the peer support part
of all of it, I've put in some, put in a proposal that they make
(50:07):
that a permanent thing. I'm hoping that they make that
like a permanent full time position for somebody.
If it's me, that's great. If it's somebody more qualified
or whatever they decide to do, I'd be happy with that too.
That's good. And then I hope they have a team
like make a team to do that too.We have a psychologist on staff
now. They've hired a manager for
Wellness and like it it, they'vedone so much.
(50:30):
It's great. So I just hope we keep making
steps forward and make sure thatnobody has to go through that
stuff. The job is tough.
It's not going to get any easier.
You guys seen the streets? The the people that are coming
in are not not getting any easier to deal with either.
Yeah. They're not getting the support
that they need from the system either.
No, no, they definitely aren't, No.
(50:53):
Yeah, Tell me about how you balance that outside of work.
So you get this, you know, youngfamily on the go.
What do you do to, you know, reward yourself?
What do you like doing? What's Recreation?
Yeah, so there's lots of things I like.
Like I I enjoy cooking, creating, I enjoy drawing.
(51:14):
There's not a lot of time for drawing these days, but anything
outside. So I'm an outdoors guy, Hunting,
fishing, hunting's my life. My dad brought that in.
He, he came from Trinidad. So that was part of what he did
in Trinidad. And, you know, so I always grew
up hunting with him. And yeah, right now I'm obsessed
(51:39):
with archery. Like, just like.
When you got some hardware, yeah.
That's right. What did it say, man?
The archery. Champion.
Yeah, times 2 or something like that.
That's right. Tell us about that.
Well, I'm not a champion, but I'm I'm chasing the
championship. So, yeah, I, I've won a couple
(52:00):
of medals, like provincially, but I got into archery because
I'm AI like to compete and I can't lift and I can't play
football like I used to. So the World Police Fire Games
came to Winnipeg in 2003 and I was like, I don't want to be a
part of that. And Bobby was going into rowing
(52:21):
and we were working together andI was like, yeah, I need
something like this, like something to focus on, right.
So I don't know if you know, butBobby's a gold medalist in
rowing, yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah, so he worked his ass off and I was like, all right, that
is something like that is some focus, right.
So I'm like, all right, what canI do?
(52:44):
So I already bow haunted, but I hadn't really applied myself to
that craft. So I was like, I have everything
to do this. I'm going to sign up for the
archery competition. So I did that in 2003 and I took
a couple classes and one of the instructors said if you want to
get good, you got to shoot everyday.
(53:07):
Obviously it's more complicated than that, but I stumbled on
this. Like, I know people say this
thing a lot, but archery saved my life.
Like I can go to some really dark places, but to be good at
archery you have to apply yourself.
But not only that, you have to like it's mental rehearsal over
(53:29):
and over and over again. And breathing.
Breathing, control, everything right.
So I started getting ready for that competition.
A bunch of Americans came and I ended up getting a bronze in
that competition, which I hated.I was like, no.
First attempt and he still. Meddled.
(53:50):
Fuck that. There's a I'm I'm I'm the
hometown guy and the Americans came and took our gold.
Yeah, no. So I was not letting that happen
again. So I was like, OK, I'm signed up
for 2025 in Alabama. Like the second that ended, I
committed to that. I committed to shooting every
day and posting it online every day.
(54:11):
So I started this shot of the day on Instagram and that kind
of took off too. And it held with it some
accountability too. So I've been shooting every day
since and ended up going to Alabama in June and I was
competing there for three different events.
(54:36):
So there's Field Target and 3D, and I ended up getting silver in
all of those. Good for you man.
Yeah, I know. It's still not gold.
No it isn't. That's pretty good.
It isn't. So I'm going to Australia in two
years to chase that gold. But yeah, I have trouble being
happy about it. But I am like, I put in a lot of
work. The competition was very
(54:57):
different. There was a lot more people
there competing and it was definitely a lot more
challenging, the chorus and stuff.
So I also shot personal best, which is kind of what you're
shooting for regardless. Yeah, yeah.
Tell us about the girls. How old are the girls?
So Hunter is 14. She's great.
(55:19):
She started a new school, so she's going to school in in
Winnipeg. We're living just outside of
Winnipeg and she's doing that teenager stuff and like she
cannot wait to go to school and she hates the weekends 'cause
she can't be with her friends. So it's good to see her in her
element. She's they had a homecoming
football game and we dropped heroff and she hung out with them
(55:41):
and she loves being outdoors, like me.
She shot some archery with me a little bit.
She loves basketball. So we we enjoy shooting hoops.
And then Hazel, she's 9 and she's just that kid that like,
everybody likes, right? Like she's just got swag.
(56:02):
Yeah. I don't know how to say it.
That's awesome. Yeah, she she's into horseback
riding, which is going to suck. I wish I could get overtime.
Fuck man, that's expensive. Yeah, I don't get overtime in my
job anymore. So how much you guys paying me
for this? Yeah.
I think. It was 18 bucks or so.
(56:26):
The girls put the girls here, you know, when they're 25 years
old looking back at Dad, what are, what are they going to say
about Dad when they're 25 years old?
Oh man, I hope that they say that I own my mistakes, like I
wasn't perfect, but like I, I think the biggest thing I do is
(56:47):
I, I go in and I apologize afteror you know, you can't be, we
can't nail it every day. But if I, I used to beat myself
up on those days where I couldn't be a good dad or I, I
didn't get it right when, when my daughters are struggling and
I know what I should do, but I'mso angry that I can't do it
(57:07):
right. And then I start going down this
hole of like, I should stop myself and be the grown up, but,
you know, but I own it afterwards.
And I, I think, I hope they respect that.
And I think they will, yeah. That's good, man.
That's awesome. Yeah.
(57:28):
I got a few more if you want to.One question just staying on the
topic of your daughters, how do you talk to them about mental
health? Yeah, well, I take that advice
that my brother gave me about, you know, letting them steer the
conversation because I have these conversations so much that
I don't want to go too far. And I ain't no clinician.
(57:51):
Like I'm not a mental health expert.
I have lived experience. I'm getting a lot of expertise
from working with people. But I think the biggest thing
is, is like making sure we're open to the conversation.
So anxiety is for real in our home.
It's touching everybody and so making sure that it's a safe
(58:12):
place to have the conversation and that we're okayed not having
good days. You know, like that's OK for you
to not feel great. Not everybody has to be happy
all the time. So that's kind of how I approach
that, making sure that they understand that we can talk
about anything and dad loves you, right?
(58:35):
And you're going to screw up. And Dad loves you.
And I might not be happy, but I still fucking love you.
Just come home, right? Yeah.
Yeah, anything you want to talk about, anything that our
listeners can get involved in, any shout outs you mentioned a
couple of channels or projects you're working on, anything you
(58:55):
want to talk about. Well, I, I'm going to be
fundraising to go to Australia for that World Police Fire
games. My, my sister and a bunch of
people jumped on board last time.
And so they're really pushing meto do that.
I, I have a hard time doing thatkind of stuff and asking for
help. But my, my shot of the day, I'm
(59:18):
at like day 531 today consecutively shooting every day
and posting it. Good for you.
Yeah. So I'm jacked about that.
And that's got me a little bit of a.
That's on Instagram. That's on Instagram.
Yeah, that's. The Yeah, we'll get Miles to
throw it up there. What?
If G can do stuff, I'm I'm new to the figuring out the social
(59:39):
media stuff. So that's just my regular page,
but that's where we've been posting it.
And then my archery shop, my proshop that's closest to me,
Heights Archery, has kind of taken me on.
So it made me a pro staff. And yeah, so that part is like a
big part of my life right now. And so I'm going to be
(01:00:00):
fundraising for that. I also share on those same.
Social media platforms, the fundraising for like the peer
support meetings and stuff like that when I need to do it so.
You're doing some speaking this weekend too, right?
Like you're down here because you you didn't just fly down
here to come see us. We were just your first stop I.
Would. Have look at the VIP stop that's
(01:00:21):
you're heading to Niagara Falls,right?
That's right, yeah. There's an Invisible Loons
conference. I was lucky enough for my work
to send me to it last year. And so that's a it's invisible
wounds conference for cliniciansand 1st responders.
And so it's just about first responders mental health.
(01:00:43):
It's a 2 day event. They got 10 speakers.
So last year I just went to takeit in, filed the conference
report. But this year I got asked to
talk at it. And so that was after a talk I
had done in Brandon and Brandon MB.
And yeah, so I talk, I tell the same story.
I, I kind of shared here. I talk.
(01:01:04):
I really like talking about moral injury and then the peer
support program and how, how that breaks down.
So I'm excited that they broughtme out here to do that.
Yeah, I'm still blown away that people want to listen to me
talk. So.
You wouldn't believe how I'm sure you're getting to believe
it more and more, but the more people hear people's stories,
the easier it is for them to deal with their own.
(01:01:26):
Yeah, yeah. Again, it makes a huge
difference. It doesn't matter who you are.
It doesn't matter what you have and don't have.
Like hearing, hearing that otherpeople are going through the
same kind of shit. Yeah, makes it easier to go
through your shit. Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I, I'm learning that for sure.
And I know that that was a motivation for me getting a lot
(01:01:46):
of the stuff I got is that I putmy story in front of it and it's
hard for people to deny. That, yeah.
Yeah, oh man. Great stuff man.
This one's been heavy. Yeah, we can.
We can end it a little funny though.
We. Normally like to close it out on
a dad joke just cuz we, we, you know, especially from a
(01:02:08):
different province, a different perspective.
OK, would you give us a dad jokebefore we go?
Yeah, let's have it. You know, I was, I was doing
some training up north in the PAand I'm, I'm an outdoors guy.
So this I'm gonna steal his joke.
So I was, I was sitting in the classroom there training and
this guy would just throw out these jokes, you know, like out
of nowhere. And so we're talking about
(01:02:29):
animals and how when we're driving up where we would get
points for when you would see ananimal, like it's a long drive.
So, and he asked me, he was, youknow, like some animals like
hang out in groups. So do you know what Ravens are
called when they hang out together in a group?
And I'm like, no. And it was like something weird.
(01:02:51):
I don't know. The story would be cooler if I
remember what he said, but it was like something like, I don't
know, I can't remember. And then he's like, what do they
call a group of crows? You guys know what they call a
group of crows? I think it's a murder.
A murder. Yeah.
So I'm like, oh, that's fucked up.
And he's like, but what do you call 2 crows?
He's like attempted murder, bro.We.
(01:03:15):
Almost. Got there man.
So I was like, oh good, I'm happy you said that because I'm
going to steal it. Perfect.
I had one told to me too by my Ella.
I've told my SO Ella's my youngest daughter and she's
hilarious. So she said Daddy tell it on the
show in October because it's a Halloween 1.
Oh. God.
So here's my one Why don't you ever see skeletons go inside the
(01:03:39):
haunted house? They don't have the guts.
Shout out. We're going.
I love it. Yeah, too fun.
Yeah. Even though she's a Kansas City
fan. Yeah.
My daughter has daughter Hazel has her favorite, but I figured
it's one that you guys would know.
But she's like, no, drop it. She's always like, how do you
(01:04:00):
make tissue dance? I know you know.
No, you put a little boogie. Man, thank you so much.
Like like so, so cool to listen and talk.
This is one of those where we could have gone on for four
hours. I, I consciously shut the fuck
up while you were talking because there was 100 things I'd
(01:04:21):
like to talk more to you about. But appreciate what you shared
man. Thanks for giving me the the
venue and I love sharing you. Hey, I love what you're doing
and and the fact that you're going to Niagara to to speak to
a bunch of other first responders and give them your
your story like that's that's big awesome.
Other cool thing that we forgot to mention is that he's not only
like you know ex athletes like that's body style but like he
(01:04:43):
also he also grooms the same clothes we are.
We are so lucky to have a a swagsponsor.
It's one bone, right? You can see him behind if if
you're looking behind there their logo.
They are Canadian owned and operated.
They make amazing clothing for the big boys.
So I should have known when I walked upstairs, but they are
letting you go home with some swag today.
(01:05:04):
Awesome. Which when I brought up the bag,
he goes 01 bone. I I've bought one bone before.
I'm like, yeah, of course I should have known the football
side of you, the, you know, 300 and what'd you get up to, 300?
And three 3330 at one point. Yeah, that's a big boy.
But yeah, so shout out to One Bone.
Thanks, man. They'll send you home.
And Jake at One Bone, he gives his phone number and shit on
(01:05:25):
there. If you need anything else, reach
out to them. They want to make sure you look
your best. That's so cool.
Yeah, I I bought the swoop already.
Nice. There you.
Go, let's go. Yeah, we get we get some cool
shit coming down the road with with those guys.
So. Awesome, looking forward to it.
Yeah. So thank you again, man.
Safe travels and we'll see you soon.
This Shit My Dad Taught Me episode is brought to you by an
amazing sponsormatthew-stevenson.ca.
He's wealth strategy, tax smart,estate smart, legacy smart.
Thank you Matt. Shit My Dad Taught me.
Shit, my dad taught me. Oh yeah.
Welcome. Thank you.
Thank you for having me. I'm great.
We're so lucky to have you, man.I, we're just talking a few
minutes before we got going hereand we're kind of joking about
(00:26):
how we open the show, which is with our ChatGPT, do a little
R&D, phone it in. You don't have much of an online
footprint. I hope not very little.
Man, But I'll tell you though, the stuff it did find was super
interesting. So if it's all right with you,
let me introduce you to our listeners too.
So we are sitting here today with Garvin Pinnett.
And I said it right, Let's go off to a good start.
(00:49):
So it goes on to say today we have Garvin Pinnett to the show.
He's a proud father, a passionate public servant,
archery champion, and a man who's turned his deepest
struggles into powerful fuel forchange.
Pretty good, right? He's a correctional officer and
peer support coordinator with Manitoba Corrections and the
founder of the department's first ever Peer support Program
(01:13):
and Trauma Informed Care Committee.
After surviving 3 traumatic events early on in his career
and receiving PTSD diagnosis, hethen faced down some of the
darkest days of his life and he chose to fight not just for him,
but for mental Wellness and for others in uniform.
Let's go. He partnered with the MGEU to
(01:35):
launch the Healthy Minds at Workcampaign, building out a full
peer support training program. Today, Garvin is a full time
staff trainer, a divisional coordinator, and a recognized
mental health leader in the first responder circles.
But that's just part of a story,and that's why we have him here
today. Thank you for all you do man.
(01:56):
Thanks for. All you do, you guys are more
prepared than I am. Well, I wouldn't say we are so
Chris and Chad GBT Yeah, I don'tprepare for shit.
Bad. Listen, I I know how busy you
are. I know you're at a big speaking
engagement this weekend. Yeah.
So I want to make sure I say thanks for making the time.
It means a lot to us on this show.
(02:18):
We love talking about mental health, specifically men's
mental health. So we can go in 100 different
directions with this, but I'll tell you where I want to start.
If it's OK with you. Just tell me a little bit about
how you grew up. How I grew up I grew up in
Winnipeg, MB. My dad was from Trinidad, my mom
(02:38):
from a small town just outside near Dauphin, so rural Manitoba.
But I they, I grew up in Winnipeg.
My parents separated when I was like 5 years old, played
football. My upbringing was really good.
My dad moved away for work for afew years and came back and then
(03:05):
yeah, I would say I had a reallygood childhood.
My mom is a sweetheart. She like comes out everything
with kindness. You know, money wasn't always
there, but we we had a lot of love and and kindness in the
home. And I couldn't ask for more than
that. Yeah.
What's Mom's first name? Carmel.
Shout out, Carmel. Yeah, Thank you.
(03:27):
Love that. Oh, yeah.
So as you're growing up, how'd things go?
How did you? Because obviously you've got a
pretty extensive career. How'd you find your way into
that? Wow.
I kind of went all over the place.
So I wasn't good at school. I struggled with school.
I don't. I didn't know then that I had
dyslexia and ADHD, and so schoolwas always difficult.
(03:50):
The grades were challenging to get.
I ended up dropping out at like,well, I'd go to school.
I'd go to school at like grade 10 and then they had these
absence rules. So like after like 5 or 6
absences, you'd be kicked out. But I'd always go start school
because that's where all my friends were.
And then I'd hang out in the cafeteria or whatever.
(04:12):
Yeah, what's that you? Get your grade 10.
I so I, I joke because I stayed in school 'cause that's where my
friends were, but I never finished many classes.
Like I got like art and mechanics and those fun ones.
And then I was supposed to graduate. 2000, 2001 I was a
(04:33):
super senior, did the same thing. 2002 They put me into
that mature student diploma program.
Mr. Mahar, Mr. Mahar got me thatdiploma.
He, he would stay with me at like lunch, we'd work on things
together. Just one teacher getting it done
got me those 4 credits I needed for that mature student diploma.
(04:57):
Football was a big part of all of that, like that group, but it
wasn't school football's community.
So I didn't have to like be at school to play ball.
But yes, my friends were all there and stuff and so I still
wanted to be at school. I just didn't want to do the
work or didn't understand why I couldn't do it.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I feel the same lot.
Lot to love about school. Except the school.
(05:18):
Yeah, that's right. I didn't get through grade 10.
That's about as far as I went. I was the same thing, man.
I remember and shout out to my dad, who would make the time to
drive me to school sometimes. Sometimes I'm walking, sometimes
I'm taking the bus, but he'd drive me.
And like, literally, I remember my silly ass walking in,
waiting, walking back out. And I did that more than once.
It was the calf for sure, but itwas also like we had like a big
(05:40):
park ravine where we were and itwas like I just was focused on
the wrong shit, man. Yeah.
Or, or was it the right shit? Well.
I. Mean people like obviously with
dyslexia and ADHD, I mean, thoseare, you know, that's a lot to
work with. But like for me it was just not
my learning style. Like.
I learned if I can, you know, dohands on, if I can watch
something happening, if I can get that kind of instruction,
(06:02):
then I got it right away. But sitting in a desk was not
me. Still isn't to this day.
No, yeah, I have a hard time sitting and still period.
But. And and not making excuses.
Part of it was that I just didn't want to be in those
classes, but yeah. Yeah, so then you graduate, you
got a mature student diploma andthen what'd?
(06:23):
You do. So I did the usual stuff.
My like, I I worked in a kitchenfor a little while.
I worked at some gas stations. I worked for my stepdad who had
like this. He worked at a a sheet metal
shop. He's the first person that fired
me, actually. Yeah.
Yeah, Gil, he's an amazing guy. He he, he had hired me on and I
(06:46):
just kept showing up late. Like I'd be there 5 minutes
late, but I'd be there. I just wouldn't punch in in
time. I'd be at the back of the line.
So I remember him trying. So like, he's like, Garden, you
know, if you could be 5 minutes late, you could be 5 minutes
early. I'm like, oh, yeah, for sure.
It's easier said than done, though.
And he'd leave the same house asme, right.
(07:09):
And yeah, just whatever I saw athis, at his retirement party, I
told that story. And afterwards, he came up to me
and he's like, you know how hardthat was to do?
Like, I guess his boss had been on him for a while about letting
me go. And he kept trying to help me.
But no. Yeah.
First job I got fired by my stepdad.
(07:30):
Yeah, yeah. Just as easy to be 5 minutes
earlier than it is late. That's right.
Yeah, OK. Yeah.
So, so I, and then I was an apprentice at a tattoo shop for
a while and I did tattoos for a little while and that kind of
carried me into. I also started working security
at the same time because that you didn't make a lot of money
(07:50):
there. You'd make money off like
piercings and stuff like that, but the artists would make the
money. And I do a lot of the drawing
and I love drawing. And then from there we went to
or I was doing the security for Manitoba housing, which was a
tough job. That's like our welfare housing
(08:13):
in in Manitoba. And my buddy came over and he's
like, do you want to meet for lunch?
I was the operations manager or something there at the time
going to meet for lunch. I'm going to do this testing for
the province and, and I got sometime in between.
I'm like, what's, what's the testing?
It's like corrections really. What, what, what's going on?
(08:37):
Like what do you have to do? He's like, I don't know.
I just applied. I got an auto reply.
You got to go write these tests and if you pass, then you get an
interview. I'm like, oh man, I'm going to
jump in on that. So like the day before that
testing, I submitted to this auto e-mail, it shoot me back an
e-mail to go do this testing. And I went in this Convention
(08:59):
Center and there was like 400 people there writing the test
and it just weaned you down every time.
And I remember getting, so there's this number that follows
me around and it's annoying because I got a tattooed on my
arm now and there's like this Instagram thing with it or some
of the kids are doing whatever they're doing 6-7.
Yeah, fuck. And it's unfinished there.
(09:25):
You literally got that yesterday.
You're trying to keep up the trends.
Oh no, that's fucking jokes. OK, mine's always been 6-8 but
it was because of yogurt. So I get the number and my
number is 67. So I'm like this just feels
right. Like this corrections thing just
feels right. Anyway, I got through the
testing, training was relativelyquick and like 9 weeks later as
(09:50):
a correctional officer. Crazy.
Yeah, it's a big turn and choices.
That's right. What was step dad saying going
how the fuck are you going to dothis job?
So I can't even show up for workat that point.
I moved out already. But yeah, I moved out pretty
early too. I moved out at like 1718 and
(10:12):
then bailed, went back home, Momtook me back in and then I went.
Then I moved out with some friends again, all right.
And right around this time when I was getting into corrections
and things kind of changed for me at that point.
When did you meet my buddy Bob? That's how we met, obviously,
(10:34):
like one of my good buddies growing up was was Bob and
you've been working with him fora long time and he's he's a
great guy. Shout out my buddy Bob gave you
the gave you the hat to wear today too.
Respected redneck hat. That's right.
You've been doing lots of work, too.
But Bobby, yeah, I mean, we've been in corrections the same
amount of time, but we never metuntil recently.
(10:56):
We were trying to help a buddy out that was going through a
tough time, and we connected through peer support and yeah,
he was organizing all this stuffand making sure that his buddy
was taken care of and all the guys that were going through
this situation was taken care of.
(11:16):
And you know, you can't ignore something like that.
Like when somebody is going out of their way to help people, you
just see it, right? And so I was working from the
other end at that point, I was officially in a peer support
role. Like it's voluntary on top of my
regular duties. But so I was able to help him.
And I just saw this guy working his ass off every day.
(11:40):
And he was stressed and worried,but it wasn't about him.
It was about making sure those guys had what they needed or
their family or whatever. So as they worked through the
trial and everything, we got closer and closer.
And you know, when you when somebody like that comes into
your life, you just keep them asclose as you can.
Right? Yeah.
(12:00):
And yeah, he's just a good shit.He's always been a beauty.
Yeah. Yeah.
He speaks super highly of you. Oh.
That's good. Yeah, I got him fooled for sure.
Yeah. How's the So what does that look
like? Man that's that Seems like a
super fast training period. That seems like you're jumping
in a direction on a whim, following some numbers.
(12:22):
That's right. What does that?
Look like you Sure. It's got to be a culture show.
Like it was, at least it was I, so I always knew I wanted to
work with kids. So I ended up working at the
youth center. Bobby worked at Headingley, so
adult men's and I worked with youth, mostly female youth as
well at the time. But yeah, it was, it was quite
(12:45):
the culture shock. I mean, I didn't grow up wanting
to be a correctional officer forsure.
It just kind of fell into my lap.
But when I was able to connect it to working with kids, which I
always wanted to work with, I always felt like I could make a
difference there. And I always said as long as I'm
working with them and like they're connecting with me, then
(13:08):
I'll keep doing that kind of work.
So it was, it was pretty overwhelming at first, like to
walk in and yeah, just, and I think that's how I ended up down
that mental health Rd. for sure.I wasn't equipped properly or I
(13:28):
didn't have the life experience or who however that played out
to be ready for what I was goingto see inside those jails.
And I came from a good home. I didn't come from, like, trauma
on top of trauma on top of abuseand addiction and all that
stuff, right? And so that wasn't part of my
(13:49):
regular, right. I knew it was out there, but all
of a sudden now it was right in front of me.
Yeah. And Chachi PT says that you've
had like two or three pretty traumatic things that have that
have come up or happened or thatyou've had to deal with.
Yeah. Do you mind going into any of
those? No.
Man, that's what I'm here to do.Yeah.
So about. So the youth center is it's a
(14:14):
mostly remanned jail for youth 12 to 18.
Some stayed longer. And at the time the youth were
like, now addiction has taken over.
It's it's difficult to like connect, but they're still,
(14:35):
they're still good kids in there.
And I always say to everybody like, doesn't matter what
they're doing when they're awake, when you go to your round
at night and you see a kid sleeping with their back up
against the wall in a fetal position, you still just see a
kid, right? And so these these youth are
just coming with so many struggles.
(14:56):
And when I got there, I just realized that I could be that
guy that just brought some fun and some excitement into that
part. Our job wasn't to punish them
more. You know, they did get sentenced
and they ended up staying there to do their time as well.
But that's not my job to punish them any more than they need to
(15:18):
be. My job is to show them good
values and be a good role model.But do things like graffiti
program, you know, where you would pay to get a mural done or
something, not just tagging on stuff.
Even though I did that as a kid,basketball programs, workout
programs, we'd have a lot of funat work.
(15:40):
But three years in and I remember in our training, the
training officer said that they,they, they trained us in assist
prevention intervention and theysaid that they hadn't had a
completed suicide in Manitoba corrections like just period.
Nobody knocked on wood and they just made that statement.
(16:02):
So the first suicide, I was on shift but not directly involved.
And it was a youth, female youththat took her life.
And I saw more the way that thatinner like affected the staff
that we're working with her. And then we had to work in those
units after. And just like I was affecting
(16:25):
the other youth that were in there.
And the timelines on all of these are kind of messed up
still for me. But the second one was directly
involved with me. She was a youth on my caseload.
So we're case managers. Our biggest job, I would say, is
to make sure people don't come back into custody.
(16:48):
So like release planning, makingsure that they they have
something to go out to. They're not just going to come
back and make more victims. And so she was on my caseload.
We connected, we talked every night and so I was supposed to
talk to her at 9:00. We have an institutional
response team and when shit's popping off, you got to go
(17:10):
handle it. So we had an incident around
8:30. I went and helped with that and
at 9:30 they called the code red, which is a medical
emergency. So jetted off to go that and it
was her and she had she had tiedup and was behind the door.
(17:32):
So we had to get into the door. I remember all kinds of stuff,
you know, like the color of her skin, the sound the body made as
we tried to do CPR. I was with two amazing Cos that
used to or JCS, juvenile counselors, what we call
ourselves at the youth centers who used to be paramedics.
(17:53):
So lots of medical experience there.
I'm a volunteer firefighter, butI didn't have that training at
that time. And yeah, we worked on her,
worked on her and they, they brought her back.
But I remember the one guy looking over at me and saying
she's gone, man. They're just going to take her
to the hospital and the family'sgoing to say goodbye.
And the in charge officer came and asked me to go on the
(18:18):
ambulance and follow her to the hospital.
And somebody else, I can't remember who it was, said no,
like he's not going. He's too like they could see it
on me. And so went through the motions
and I felt OK after, you know, these girls were struggling with
(18:38):
so much and that that wasn't lost on me.
But we did everything we could. And after that, we had a bunch
of, we had a, a youth that was in custody that had been
released and then taken her own life in the community and she
was connected to us. These kids come in and out their
entire life, right? And we're asked to connect with
(19:01):
them on a different level. But once they get into the
community, our, our job stops and the community workers jobs
start there. There's really no transition
into that, right, Unless we makethe effort to connect them so.
Which has got to be tough on both sides.
Oh, it's terrible, man. They still, I still have kids
(19:22):
that that call me and tell me how they're doing.
So this next one, which is actually the one that I think
affects me the most. We were, we, I was in the unit,
a female unit doing rounds or whatever, and she was, she was
in her room. I didn't know her all that well,
(19:45):
but I knew of her from the unit and they they at the end of the
night, we got to do these checks.
So we go around, check the roomsand I push on the door again and
it like I knew she was in there,but I couldn't get the door
open. So I'm like in my prime football
(20:06):
days. So I'm 330 lbs or whatever.
I don't fit through a door easily right?
So I like. Push on this heavy steel door
that opens to the inside and I finally get through it and the
door closes behind me and I realize she's behind the door,
so very similar to the other girl but she's up in the air.
(20:29):
So I grab her and I put her up on my shoulder and there's
nothing there. Like it's just dead weight.
So I'm like trying to get it loose.
And as I get it loose, she starts fighting like coming back
and I'm working, working that, trying to get the thing loose
(20:49):
from the hinge. Meanwhile, I guess her roommate
or somebody knew that something was going on.
So they got the attention of allthe staff, called the necessary
code for backup, but nobody could get in because we're stuck
behind the door. So now I'm stuck in the door
trying to get her and if I let her down.
Yeah. The pressure's back on, right?
(21:10):
I can't remember how long that was, but at some point I
unhooked it and we fell away from the door and she was fine.
She recovered. So I I got in there just in the
right time. The next day I came into work
and she wanted to talk and say thank you.
(21:30):
She had this scar around her neck.
I remember, but that girl still calls me today and she tells me
about her kids. She's got these two dogs that
she calls her kids. She's living up in Thompson, MB.
And she'll call me every now andthen.
Then, yeah. So we get some wins in
corrections, but that one sits with me for sure.
(21:52):
Yeah. That's heavy.
Yeah. It's just, you know, when
you're, when you have, you know,as a dude and a, a guy that like
people look to for all the solutions and the, you know, the
problem solver and you don't have an answer for a situation
you're in. It's scary as fuck.
And I was scared in there. I didn't know what to do.
(22:12):
She was like pissing on me. Like I could, I just knew that I
was in a situation where I just needed to hold on, but I didn't
have the answer. Yeah.
At what point when you're going through those situations, do you
realize yourself that like you've probably got to talk to
somebody Like was it right afterany of those?
(22:33):
Or like you have to go through aprocess for a while before you
came to the point where you're like, I've got to deal with
this. Yeah, I had to.
I had to find out the hard way. Yeah.
And sadly, that's that's the waymost people, yeah, find out.
Yeah. So I'd say it took me, you know,
(22:53):
if we skipped a bunch of steps, took me about three years to get
to the point where I knew something was really wrong.
But slowly after that, like I never took time off work, you
know, proud, whatever. I don't even know if I needed it
because taking time off work sometimes isn't the best thing
to just sit in your thoughts. And my obsessiveness kind of
(23:14):
helps me along the way now achieve a lot of things.
But we, I went back to work and we had those incidents just keep
happening, right? Like that was a, there was no
more completed suicides, thank God.
And our work adjusted to make sure that the youth were safe.
(23:35):
There was training that came outand eventually that kind of
stopped again. But the trauma was still there.
Those kids were still there. And you could see like the self
harm and yeah, it's just very difficult to see.
And so I think the first thing Inoticed was that I wasn't really
(23:58):
the good guy I used to be. Like I was having trouble going
home. I was drinking more than I
should. And then I was kind of the life
of the party. So everybody had a young family,
just one daughter at the time. I have two, Hunter and Hazel and
my wife, Michelle. And at the time I, I would
(24:22):
really struggle to go home when I really like to go home.
And then the next thing that happened was I was having
trouble going into work. And I, I remember driving down
the highway and being like, if Iran into that pole, I wouldn't
have to go to work. And I live outside of the city,
(24:43):
so just a little town, just about a 20 minute, 30 minute
drive outside the city. So it's a nice drive.
I always appreciated it. Never a semi on that highway
that I remember, but this one night I was driving home and
there was a semi on the highway.And I remember thinking, if I
hit that semi, I wouldn't have to go to work.
Like that's, that's the thought process was like, this would be
(25:07):
my excuse. Like everybody would understand
that. So that was obviously getting a
little scary. Then one day I was watching
Hunter, my daughter, she was probably 4.
We hadn't had Hazel yet. And I'm in my house day off, did
(25:28):
a bunch of stuff. I have an acre and a half.
I love working in the yard. I'm an outdoors guy through and
through. And I had come inside.
Michelle was working because at that time we're probably
working, you know, like that ship's in the whatever, just
passing by. So she's working evenings.
I'm I'm probably just off that day or whatever.
(25:50):
I don't remember all the details, but I remember being
like, oh, I should check on hunter.
So I go upstairs and I she's gota bedroom right up the stairs,
Eh, So I go up the stairs, I go to open the door and it doesn't
fucking open and I'm like, holy fuck.
Instantly I'm at the jail. I could smell it.
I can see it, I can feel it. The door, the wooden door with a
(26:14):
regular door handle felt cold, like a jail door.
I got goosebumps now and I pushed on that door so hard I
almost knocked it off the hinges.
It still has a hole where my shoulder kind of went in.
And my sweet 4 1/2 year old daughter is sitting there
playing Barbies. She's got Barbie in each hand
looking terrified at her dad andI'm like fuck.
(26:37):
So I guess there's a backpack behind the door just offering
enough resistance to give me that trigger.
And I was like, holy shit. Like, you know, that look on her
face, she doesn't remember it. I've talked to her a couple
times about it, that that look on her face bothered me more
than a lot of things, right? So I was like, this is a problem
(27:00):
here. And then maybe that wasn't even
enough too, because I remember at some point I got to the point
where I wasn't sleeping at all. I'm, I'm back, I'm struggling
again now I'm having panic attacks and stuff and we'll
probably get into that later. But the, the fear of going to
sleep is for real when you don'tknow what you're going to see.
(27:22):
And sometimes it's the last people you see that you that
come at those times, right? So that that those triggers, you
know, makes sleep very scary. So I did, I did stop sleeping
for a while and then I went to go see my doctor and I kind of I
felt like the sleep was more medical like that was easier as
(27:45):
a dude to explain to the doctor that I just couldn't sleep.
Now you got to help me out here,right?
Like drinking doesn't help sleeping.
It just keeps you up more, right?
And so like, what do I got to do?
And I was expecting like a pill or conversation of some kind or
(28:05):
whatever. And he's like, well, you should
probably go start by talking to somebody like if that's what's
going on. He could just tell.
Yeah, I'm like fuck. All right, so we have EFAP
through work, like counselors and stuff, so employee family
assistance programs. But he was also like, you can
get a counselor through us. We have 1 here and I can get you
(28:26):
in to see her. Whatever.
So I think there was 55, what doyou call it appointments that I
could go to. And so I met with this counselor
and we hit it off. She was a sweetheart.
She she is a social worker and worked with youth.
And we just started talking mostly about work.
(28:49):
Like I had a young family, but we talked about work and I told
her about those suicides and stuff.
And afterwards, she told me, youknow, what might be helpful is
if you journal. And I was like, like journal.
Like, really? Fucking hates going on.
Yeah, like at least nobody else would have to read it, right,
(29:11):
because you wouldn't understand what I wrote down anyway.
But she's like, yeah, if you journal everything like the way,
like start with that incident and and write out like the
everything you saw, you heard, you smelled, like, what your
thoughts were. And I'm like, it can't be that
simple, like, you know, but whatever.
(29:33):
I was desperate, and I had a family that was counting on me.
And I love my job, like I reallydo.
I wanted to keep doing it. And so I went back and I went to
work. I did this journal thing.
And so every night I would writeit.
I would write down. And then I also took some time
during the day to like, focus onthe incidents.
And I wrote everything down. I don't think I realized how
(29:55):
guilty I felt until I wrote it down that I felt like it was my
fault that I never went to talk to her at that certain time.
And that and that's almost selfish in a way that I would
think that like this random guy that's working at the youth
center would affect this kid whogrew up with layers and layers
of trauma and terrible things that happened to her.
(30:17):
And she just had enough, right? Like as if I had anything to do
with that. But that was sitting on me.
So I went back to the second counseling session and she
wanted me to read it back to her, put it on her and let it
go. So I came with my my book of
thoughts. And I remember like I was kind
(30:37):
of sitting forward just reading it and like even just thinking
about it, it hurts me. But I'm reading it and I get to
the point where I'm doing CPR and I know it's not working.
And I look up and she's bawling.I'm like, fuck, I broke the
counselor. And yeah, she so I, I felt no
(31:03):
longer safe to share in that space.
Like I just felt like I became the counselor at that point.
And I know she was struggling too.
And we never had a second appointment or another
appointment after that. I went to go see somebody else.
But at that point I knew I had to fight for myself.
Like there's a lot of people that would have taken that as
like a it's not going to work, right.
(31:25):
And I think over the course of this, I learned that that's,
that was an important moment forme to be like, I need to go back
to my doctor and try this again.As opposed to they just give up
and like, give in to, to like, man, you're fucked.
Like there's nothing you can do about it.
So it's fucked. Yeah.
(31:48):
Yeah, I should have asked if swearing was OK.
Yeah, I'm guessing it's. In the title, do you man?
So where did your doctor send you?
Where do you go when you put a atherapist through therapy?
Well, after that I went to therapy.
I never went through a WCB claimor anything like that and I
(32:13):
think I just put some time between me and those incidents.
My life was changing too. I had a young family.
My wife was pregnant again. She got very sick with the
pregnancy. So like we're blessed to have
the two kids, but she's allergicto the hormone or something
that's produced during pregnancy.
And so the second pregnancy was really hard.
(32:36):
So I had a 5 year old daughter who needed me and I had my wife
who was bedridden and I had to work the shift work.
I was also becoming a supervisorat work at that time and that
motivated me a little bit. So I, I think the combination of
the psychotherapy with the doctor and kind of talking
(32:59):
things through that came out of my own pocket.
But like I said, you need to need to invest in yourself,
right? And I had a family that was
counting on me. I don't know why the, the claim,
like the work claim was such a hurdle for me, but I just
couldn't do it. Like I, I didn't want to go
through. I wanted to handle it myself.
And so that's, that's what kind of started that.
(33:23):
But along the way I, I was asking the question like, why
didn't anybody get me ready for this?
Like right away I'm thrown into this and these, these kids like
need so much from us. You know, my, my buddy Josh says
the thing that makes you good atthe job makes it a risk for you
(33:46):
to get hurt at the job. So being compassionate, being
empathetic makes you good, but it also opens you up to be here.
And so you have to kind of find that balance.
And so I was asking myself, like, whose responsibility is
this? Who should have protected us or
me from that? Are other people struggling?
That kind of stuff. So I started asking some
(34:07):
questions at some high levels. That's where the MGU came in.
That's our union and I was they,they got behind me on it, talked
to the employer. The employer for sure was like,
yes, we agree, we want to do something.
And so I got put on this trauma informed care committee where we
looked at all kinds of differentagencies and stuff and what they
(34:28):
were doing and found some resiliency programs, made some
recommendations. And at the same time, I figured
if I start a peer support program, they can't tell me I
can't, That's I'm in control of that.
And so I started that at the youth center too.
And I had people that came out of nowhere that just jumped all
over it, like employees. Employees.
(34:50):
Yeah. Yeah.
And you know, there was Marion who had passed.
She was our wreck. Well, she's she was AJC, but she
was working GREC for a long timewhen I was there learning.
She had pushed for this kind of stuff way before.
And so there was a bunch of people that were like, just
(35:11):
waiting for something to happen,right?
And I had an executive director that was like, yeah, let's go.
Like, do as long as you can justify what you're doing and
whatever ever. My Superintendent at the youth
center was amazing, too. And so when the leadership gets
behind it, you know, as long as you can keep people motivated,
(35:33):
you can make something happen. So I had no blueprint.
I didn't really know. The only thing I knew is that a
lot of organizations allow peer support to happen because it
cost them nothing, right? It's all, it's all volunteer.
And so I started reaching out tosome contacts that I had and
that I just made more contacts along the way.
And somewhere along the way, I realized that sharing my story
(35:56):
carried some weight, that everybody thinks that they're
alone, right? And that it's just you.
And if nobody shares, then everybody just thinks that.
And so I would start every meeting or pitch with sharing
that story. And like, like, I'm not just
here because I want, I, you know, I want this.
(36:18):
I'm here because I needed it. And we can make sure that nobody
else is alone through that kind of stuff.
And so it's not perfect, but we're working through it.
And we got a peer support program now there.
And that was part of my healing though, for sure.
And like, I was able to focus myattention there while I put
(36:38):
space between those incidents. And right now is that just that
at your guys facility or is thatlike are are you trying to get
this implemented like no real mental book corrections or?
Yeah, yeah. So right now I'm the coordinator
for the peer support program forall of Manitoba Corrections.
So good for you. Yeah, I'm, I'm happy, really
(36:59):
jacked about that. I'm hoping that it can turn into
like a little division within there and we can make sure that
everybody's getting training andwhat they need.
But we're figuring it out as we go.
I just came back from up north Manitoba where I was doing some
recruiting. But before that I, I did some
training with our jail and the PA, which is like, you know, six
(37:21):
hours away and they're very isolated.
So it's nice our our department's committed to it and
I'm blessed and happy that they give me a chance.
To do it. And in a sense it's got to like
for all the, all the community work and charity work we do,
like it's almost, it's our, it'sour therapy, you know, it helps
our mental health. It's got to be one of those
(37:43):
pieces for you where like, maybeyou're not going to a therapist
as much anymore, but doing this and helping other people get
through it is probably a lot of therapy for you and helps you
kind of, you know, lets you talkabout it more and helps you, you
know, confront it more too, right?
Yeah, exactly. I, it is part of my healing
journey. And then it also, I'm seeing it
help other people, right? And I'm, I'm meeting people like
(38:06):
Bob, like I meet great people all the time that you know, and
I'm also, we, we also run like agroup peer support program in
the community for all first responders.
So one of the biggest challengesfor first responders is that a
lot of the volunteer places you would go for help our clients
(38:27):
are at it's not safe place to bevulnerable, right?
Throw on top of that the alpha part of all of it and you got a
real problem, right? So we, there's this group I'm
coordinating called the OSI canned peer support group and we
got a great ex police officer who shows up every Thursday and
(38:51):
is there whether people show up or not.
And people walk in and they got a safe place to share if they
need to. So there's just different layers
to it. But definitely having that
ability to like help people has helped me for sure.
I, I do see a therapist still and I've kind of ramped that up
(39:13):
again. I mentioned that, you know, I'm,
I'm retriggered by PTSD over thelast six months.
It's been a struggle. I've been having my panic
attacks again and stuff like that.
So I didn't anticipate that my daughter would get to the age of
the youth that were at the jail when that happened.
(39:34):
Oh, so that's the. Reason Trigger.
Yeah, man, that's crazy. My daughter is a teenager.
She's struggling with all kinds of school drama, you know?
Teenager shit, Yeah, that wasn'tlike teenager shit we used.
To deal with. Yeah.
And so those conversations are very similar to the
conversations I would have with the girl prior.
(39:57):
And I love that I can put, I puta chair in her room and I'm just
present every night because right now I'm working Monday to
Friday if I'm not traveling. And that's that's unheard of
when you work this first responder stuff, right.
So I'm really lucky to have worked myself into a position
where I can be home and sit in that chair and have those
conversations with her. But I wasn't ready for that
(40:19):
connection between my daughter and and the the kids I saw at
the East Center. So I'm working through that
right now, yeah. And I guess those conversations
with her, the tough part in yourmind is like drawing lines and
where those conversations go so that, you know, one, it's not
(40:41):
triggering more on you, but you're also not taking those
conversations too deep into places that like she doesn't
need to go either. Exactly like I, I go there very
easily. Because if for work, you're
trained to do that, that's what you're supposed to do.
And the PTSD is for real, right?So I'm I'm automatically
thinking worst case scenario. So like every time somebody says
(41:03):
you got to talk to this person or whatever, it's just like the
worst case scenario, right? So, yeah, and you and you don't
want to overfeed, right? Like you said, I remember my
brother as a a teacher and he told me he's like, yeah, you,
you got to ask them the questions and see where they
want to go with it. Because if you're leading that
(41:24):
conversation, you might go too far down rabbit hole, right?
And you don't like I, I can't come back from that.
So yeah, it's difficult, but it's it's nice to be able to be
there for sure. I miss so much working shift
work with them that I really I really enjoy just being present,
(41:45):
especially in the evening. Tough con rules.
You're a you're a girl dad. So like I'm sitting.
Here, just this is one of these where I just shut up and listen
because it's, it's, I mean, I could go over everything you
just said and tell you the things that you and I, without
knowing each other before today,I've walked in parallel.
I'm huge into youth. I I did a decade at Nelson Youth
(42:07):
Centers and volunteering and we had some losses, right?
I was a part of one of them. And yeah, it's tough.
Yeah, yeah, man. How's how's wife through all
this? Your partner through all this.
She's a. She's a, a beauty man.
She so I, if I have one regret, it's that I didn't share any of
it. So we're sitting there probably
(42:29):
probably three years in when I had my first appointment and I
had to, I had to schedule that with her, you know, to, to try
to tell like I have a kid, whatever, I'm going to be
somewhere. So I got to figure that out.
And she's like, what's this appointment about?
I'm like, oh, I'm going to talk to this therapist.
(42:49):
And at that point I realized it had been that long since those
incidents and I had never told her anything happened.
So I don't know if that was likenot thinking that she can handle
it. We have a lot of like this don't
bring work home kind of culture and whatever.
But Nah, I've learned overtime. Fuck that they can handle it.
They, you know, they may not need the details.
(43:10):
My wife works with people with intellectual disabilities in the
community. She has a very hard job too, and
she she advocates for them. She's such a beautiful soul.
And you know, and no matter whatis going on with me, she's got
the answers right. But I just wish I would have
(43:31):
trusted that earlier. The party was I'm the man.
I'm, I'm not supposed to dump this shit on my wife, right?
I'm supposed to be the the man in the house.
Yeah, and to this guy's. Got to get rid of right?
Oh fuck, you can be the man in the house, but you could still
fucking go to your wife and trust her with shit, right?
Yeah, and I need that reminder. So to this day, she's like, like
(43:54):
even a couple weeks ago, she's like, you don't have to be the
tough one here. Like if this is hard for you, I
got it. Like, but I have to know, right?
Like I have to be, I have to be able to open, openly, share and
all that. So yeah.
That's something I'm still working on too.
It's hard, man. Yeah, yeah.
(44:15):
The hard stuff, for sure, the stuff that was real 'cause, you
know, back then we were just having kids.
And so you kind of think that asa man, as you're like, well, I
better not put any more weight on her.
Yeah, you know, I better shield,protect all those instincts that
you have, right? But it's a balancing act,
because on one hand, she deserves to know why you're in
(44:35):
the headspace you're in, or why you're making the decisions you
are, or why you're you know, butyou don't.
Exactly. You don't until you start to
work on it, until you get a little more Gray hair and your
relationship grows a little deeper.
And then you're like, OK, no, this is this is a team sport.
Yeah, you know, but it takes a while to get there.
Yeah. And she's such a yeah, I
couldn't do it without her. That's all I can say about that.
(44:59):
Yeah. With what you guys are doing in
Manitoba corrections, like with this peer peer setup and all the
support you guys are creating, what other provinces do you
like? Do other provinces, obviously
you've done a ton of research, like does BC have this?
Does Ontario have this or is there nothing in those places
right now? Are you trying to like help that
platform too and push that along?
Well, there's a couple things that kind of work parallel, like
(45:21):
a critical incident stress debriefing, and a bunch of first
responder agencies do adopt or have adopted peer support.
Not too many do formal peer support.
So that's what I'm trying to do,But I did get the model and
worked with some people out of it might even be Burlington
(45:46):
here. They were police officers from
Ontario involved in some pretty serious incidents as well.
They're retired now, but they run a different company training
people on peer support. So I don't know.
I don't think too many jails have formal peer support
(46:08):
programs, but I do know a lot ofjails have started like the
informal just volunteer support programs.
That's. Good.
I can, I can talk to one in Ontario who was a friend of
ours, but actually at the time avery good friend of ours.
I mean, life kind of goes in directions as you move forward.
(46:29):
But he was in corrections, he was a guard, he was at a men's
facility that was in Ontario. And he much like you was, you
know, tough guy. He he was a physical guy.
So a lot of the time and again, the situations would be
different in youth versus men's,but a lot of the time he was the
1st through the door. He was the guy where they're
like, well, he'll get him, you know, in order.
(46:51):
So he saw, I mean, you know, he,he probably didn't even tell me
everything that he saw. He saw a lot.
And there was one instance whereit just wrecked him.
Just not something any of us should see or be a part of or,
or just all right. Again, it's his story to tell.
So I won't, I won't tell it. But the fallout from that was
(47:12):
absolute wreck alcoholism, No sleep, like no sleep.
I would get text from him at like 445 and he was drunk and it
was just like, fuck, you're like, OK, man.
And he didn't have the support. Like I can remember him getting
reprimanded. Like there there's was like, no,
you can't be late or no, you can't miss work.
(47:34):
And because he had that pride piece going at the same time, he
wasn't, you know, championing for his own care.
He was just kind of letting the system navigate his care and the
system just it let him down, man.
He he hit like rock bottom And had, you know, systems like
yours been in place, that probably is a different story
(47:56):
because he's, you know, he's he's a great, he's just a really
likable guy. Like in a peer-to-peer scenario,
he'd be a rock star. Everybody would want him around,
but that didn't exist. So he was doing it in a silo and
he was kind of counting on his friends.
But like we can't, we can't see what he's seen.
It's a different, you know, it'soutsider looking in right.
And then it falls on the family.Like it at the time they, they
(48:18):
didn't have any kids at the time, but he was married and she
didn't know what to do with it. Like it was, it was a mess man.
Then the the the support wasn't there.
And that can create all kinds ofresentment, too, right?
Like, if you don't understand why those behaviors are
happening. And yeah, it's crazy.
Nobody should be alone. Like, that's the number one
(48:39):
thing about the peer support is like, you know, making sure that
we show up, but it's also important that we know when
people are changing. And so it would have been nice
for him to have somebody to be able to say like, hey, man, like
this is fucked up. This is not your normal, right?
What's going on, right? And then just be able to be
(48:59):
there with him for it. It's really simple.
So it doesn't have to be complicated.
Tough gig man. Being a corrections officer,
especially at a youth facility, like totally different situation
there too. So tough gig though man.
Yeah. So what's your look a little bit
forward with us? Like what?
(49:20):
Where do you hope this goes? Where do you hope your
development goes? What are you excited about?
Yeah. Well, I'm able to retire at 50.
I'm able to retire at 50. So I'm eight years away from
that, but got a young family still.
So as far as the working in corrections, right now, I'm a
(49:43):
staff trainer. That's my Monday to Friday.
So I'm training our new correctional officers so I get
them first. So I'm loving being able to do
that. So I hope to stay there for a
while. As far as the peer support part
of all of it, I've put in some, put in a proposal that they make
(50:07):
that a permanent thing. I'm hoping that they make that
like a permanent full time position for somebody.
If it's me, that's great. If it's somebody more qualified
or whatever they decide to do, I'd be happy with that too.
That's good. And then I hope they have a team
like make a team to do that too.We have a psychologist on staff
now. They've hired a manager for
Wellness and like it it, they'vedone so much.
(50:30):
It's great. So I just hope we keep making
steps forward and make sure thatnobody has to go through that
stuff. The job is tough.
It's not going to get any easier.
You guys seen the streets? The the people that are coming
in are not not getting any easier to deal with either.
Yeah. They're not getting the support
that they need from the system either.
No, no, they definitely aren't, No.
(50:53):
Yeah, Tell me about how you balance that outside of work.
So you get this, you know, youngfamily on the go.
What do you do to, you know, reward yourself?
What do you like doing? What's Recreation?
Yeah, so there's lots of things I like.
Like I I enjoy cooking, creating, I enjoy drawing.
(51:14):
There's not a lot of time for drawing these days, but anything
outside. So I'm an outdoors guy, Hunting,
fishing, hunting's my life. My dad brought that in.
He, he came from Trinidad. So that was part of what he did
in Trinidad. And, you know, so I always grew
up hunting with him. And yeah, right now I'm obsessed
(51:39):
with archery. Like, just like.
When you got some hardware, yeah.
That's right. What did it say, man?
The archery. Champion.
Yeah, times 2 or something like that.
That's right. Tell us about that.
Well, I'm not a champion, but I'm I'm chasing the
championship. So, yeah, I, I've won a couple
(52:00):
of medals, like provincially, but I got into archery because
I'm AI like to compete and I can't lift and I can't play
football like I used to. So the World Police Fire Games
came to Winnipeg in 2003 and I was like, I don't want to be a
part of that. And Bobby was going into rowing
(52:21):
and we were working together andI was like, yeah, I need
something like this, like something to focus on, right.
So I don't know if you know, butBobby's a gold medalist in
rowing, yeah. Absolutely.
Yeah, so he worked his ass off and I was like, all right, that
is something like that is some focus, right.
So I'm like, all right, what canI do?
(52:44):
So I already bow haunted, but I hadn't really applied myself to
that craft. So I was like, I have everything
to do this. I'm going to sign up for the
archery competition. So I did that in 2003 and I took
a couple classes and one of the instructors said if you want to
get good, you got to shoot everyday.
(53:07):
Obviously it's more complicated than that, but I stumbled on
this. Like, I know people say this
thing a lot, but archery saved my life.
Like I can go to some really dark places, but to be good at
archery you have to apply yourself.
But not only that, you have to like it's mental rehearsal over
(53:29):
and over and over again. And breathing.
Breathing, control, everything right.
So I started getting ready for that competition.
A bunch of Americans came and I ended up getting a bronze in
that competition, which I hated.I was like, no.
First attempt and he still. Meddled.
(53:50):
Fuck that. There's a I'm I'm I'm the
hometown guy and the Americans came and took our gold.
Yeah, no. So I was not letting that happen
again. So I was like, OK, I'm signed up
for 2025 in Alabama. Like the second that ended, I
committed to that. I committed to shooting every
day and posting it online every day.
(54:11):
So I started this shot of the day on Instagram and that kind
of took off too. And it held with it some
accountability too. So I've been shooting every day
since and ended up going to Alabama in June and I was
competing there for three different events.
(54:36):
So there's Field Target and 3D, and I ended up getting silver in
all of those. Good for you man.
Yeah, I know. It's still not gold.
No it isn't. That's pretty good.
It isn't. So I'm going to Australia in two
years to chase that gold. But yeah, I have trouble being
happy about it. But I am like, I put in a lot of
work. The competition was very
(54:57):
different. There was a lot more people
there competing and it was definitely a lot more
challenging, the chorus and stuff.
So I also shot personal best, which is kind of what you're
shooting for regardless. Yeah, yeah.
Tell us about the girls. How old are the girls?
So Hunter is 14. She's great.
(55:19):
She started a new school, so she's going to school in in
Winnipeg. We're living just outside of
Winnipeg and she's doing that teenager stuff and like she
cannot wait to go to school and she hates the weekends 'cause
she can't be with her friends. So it's good to see her in her
element. She's they had a homecoming
football game and we dropped heroff and she hung out with them
(55:41):
and she loves being outdoors, like me.
She shot some archery with me a little bit.
She loves basketball. So we we enjoy shooting hoops.
And then Hazel, she's 9 and she's just that kid that like,
everybody likes, right? Like she's just got swag.
(56:02):
Yeah. I don't know how to say it.
That's awesome. Yeah, she she's into horseback
riding, which is going to suck. I wish I could get overtime.
Fuck man, that's expensive. Yeah, I don't get overtime in my
job anymore. So how much you guys paying me
for this? Yeah.
I think. It was 18 bucks or so.
(56:26):
The girls put the girls here, you know, when they're 25 years
old looking back at Dad, what are, what are they going to say
about Dad when they're 25 years old?
Oh man, I hope that they say that I own my mistakes, like I
wasn't perfect, but like I, I think the biggest thing I do is
(56:47):
I, I go in and I apologize afteror you know, you can't be, we
can't nail it every day. But if I, I used to beat myself
up on those days where I couldn't be a good dad or I, I
didn't get it right when, when my daughters are struggling and
I know what I should do, but I'mso angry that I can't do it
(57:07):
right. And then I start going down this
hole of like, I should stop myself and be the grown up, but,
you know, but I own it afterwards.
And I, I think, I hope they respect that.
And I think they will, yeah. That's good, man.
That's awesome. Yeah.
(57:28):
I got a few more if you want to.One question just staying on the
topic of your daughters, how do you talk to them about mental
health? Yeah, well, I take that advice
that my brother gave me about, you know, letting them steer the
conversation because I have these conversations so much that
I don't want to go too far. And I ain't no clinician.
(57:51):
Like I'm not a mental health expert.
I have lived experience. I'm getting a lot of expertise
from working with people. But I think the biggest thing
is, is like making sure we're open to the conversation.
So anxiety is for real in our home.
It's touching everybody and so making sure that it's a safe
(58:12):
place to have the conversation and that we're okayed not having
good days. You know, like that's OK for you
to not feel great. Not everybody has to be happy
all the time. So that's kind of how I approach
that, making sure that they understand that we can talk
about anything and dad loves you, right?
(58:35):
And you're going to screw up. And Dad loves you.
And I might not be happy, but I still fucking love you.
Just come home, right? Yeah.
Yeah, anything you want to talk about, anything that our
listeners can get involved in, any shout outs you mentioned a
couple of channels or projects you're working on, anything you
(58:55):
want to talk about. Well, I, I'm going to be
fundraising to go to Australia for that World Police Fire
games. My, my sister and a bunch of
people jumped on board last time.
And so they're really pushing meto do that.
I, I have a hard time doing thatkind of stuff and asking for
help. But my, my shot of the day, I'm
(59:18):
at like day 531 today consecutively shooting every day
and posting it. Good for you.
Yeah. So I'm jacked about that.
And that's got me a little bit of a.
That's on Instagram. That's on Instagram.
Yeah, that's. The Yeah, we'll get Miles to
throw it up there. What?
If G can do stuff, I'm I'm new to the figuring out the social
(59:39):
media stuff. So that's just my regular page,
but that's where we've been posting it.
And then my archery shop, my proshop that's closest to me,
Heights Archery, has kind of taken me on.
So it made me a pro staff. And yeah, so that part is like a
big part of my life right now. And so I'm going to be
(01:00:00):
fundraising for that. I also share on those same.
Social media platforms, the fundraising for like the peer
support meetings and stuff like that when I need to do it so.
You're doing some speaking this weekend too, right?
Like you're down here because you you didn't just fly down
here to come see us. We were just your first stop I.
Would. Have look at the VIP stop that's
(01:00:21):
you're heading to Niagara Falls,right?
That's right, yeah. There's an Invisible Loons
conference. I was lucky enough for my work
to send me to it last year. And so that's a it's invisible
wounds conference for cliniciansand 1st responders.
And so it's just about first responders mental health.
(01:00:43):
It's a 2 day event. They got 10 speakers.
So last year I just went to takeit in, filed the conference
report. But this year I got asked to
talk at it. And so that was after a talk I
had done in Brandon and Brandon MB.
And yeah, so I talk, I tell the same story.
I, I kind of shared here. I talk.
(01:01:04):
I really like talking about moral injury and then the peer
support program and how, how that breaks down.
So I'm excited that they broughtme out here to do that.
Yeah, I'm still blown away that people want to listen to me
talk. So.
You wouldn't believe how I'm sure you're getting to believe
it more and more, but the more people hear people's stories,
the easier it is for them to deal with their own.
(01:01:26):
Yeah, yeah. Again, it makes a huge
difference. It doesn't matter who you are.
It doesn't matter what you have and don't have.
Like hearing, hearing that otherpeople are going through the
same kind of shit. Yeah, makes it easier to go
through your shit. Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I, I'm learning that for sure.
And I know that that was a motivation for me getting a lot
(01:01:46):
of the stuff I got is that I putmy story in front of it and it's
hard for people to deny. That, yeah.
Yeah, oh man. Great stuff man.
This one's been heavy. Yeah, we can.
We can end it a little funny though.
We. Normally like to close it out on
a dad joke just cuz we, we, you know, especially from a
(01:02:08):
different province, a different perspective.
OK, would you give us a dad jokebefore we go?
Yeah, let's have it. You know, I was, I was doing
some training up north in the PAand I'm, I'm an outdoors guy.
So this I'm gonna steal his joke.
So I was, I was sitting in the classroom there training and
this guy would just throw out these jokes, you know, like out
of nowhere. And so we're talking about
(01:02:29):
animals and how when we're driving up where we would get
points for when you would see ananimal, like it's a long drive.
So, and he asked me, he was, youknow, like some animals like
hang out in groups. So do you know what Ravens are
called when they hang out together in a group?
And I'm like, no. And it was like something weird.
(01:02:51):
I don't know. The story would be cooler if I
remember what he said, but it was like something like, I don't
know, I can't remember. And then he's like, what do they
call a group of crows? You guys know what they call a
group of crows? I think it's a murder.
A murder. Yeah.
So I'm like, oh, that's fucked up.
And he's like, but what do you call 2 crows?
He's like attempted murder, bro.We.
(01:03:15):
Almost. Got there man.
So I was like, oh good, I'm happy you said that because I'm
going to steal it. Perfect.
I had one told to me too by my Ella.
I've told my SO Ella's my youngest daughter and she's
hilarious. So she said Daddy tell it on the
show in October because it's a Halloween 1.
Oh. God.
So here's my one Why don't you ever see skeletons go inside the
(01:03:39):
haunted house? They don't have the guts.
Shout out. We're going.
I love it. Yeah, too fun.
Yeah. Even though she's a Kansas City
fan. Yeah.
My daughter has daughter Hazel has her favorite, but I figured
it's one that you guys would know.
But she's like, no, drop it. She's always like, how do you
(01:04:00):
make tissue dance? I know you know.
No, you put a little boogie. Man, thank you so much.
Like like so, so cool to listen and talk.
This is one of those where we could have gone on for four
hours. I, I consciously shut the fuck
up while you were talking because there was 100 things I'd
(01:04:21):
like to talk more to you about. But appreciate what you shared
man. Thanks for giving me the the
venue and I love sharing you. Hey, I love what you're doing
and and the fact that you're going to Niagara to to speak to
a bunch of other first responders and give them your
your story like that's that's big awesome.
Other cool thing that we forgot to mention is that he's not only
like you know ex athletes like that's body style but like he
(01:04:43):
also he also grooms the same clothes we are.
We are so lucky to have a a swagsponsor.
It's one bone, right? You can see him behind if if
you're looking behind there their logo.
They are Canadian owned and operated.
They make amazing clothing for the big boys.
So I should have known when I walked upstairs, but they are
letting you go home with some swag today.
(01:05:04):
Awesome. Which when I brought up the bag,
he goes 01 bone. I I've bought one bone before.
I'm like, yeah, of course I should have known the football
side of you, the, you know, 300 and what'd you get up to, 300?
And three 3330 at one point. Yeah, that's a big boy.
But yeah, so shout out to One Bone.
Thanks, man. They'll send you home.
And Jake at One Bone, he gives his phone number and shit on
(01:05:25):
there. If you need anything else, reach
out to them. They want to make sure you look
your best. That's so cool.
Yeah, I I bought the swoop already.
Nice. There you.
Go, let's go. Yeah, we get we get some cool
shit coming down the road with with those guys.
So. Awesome, looking forward to it.
Yeah. So thank you again, man.
Safe travels and we'll see you soon.
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