Beyond Talk: Unlocking Your Trauma’s Hidden Power with Critical Memory Integration

(00:00):
Hi, this is Dr.
Soma.
Just a disclaimer, this podcast is for informational purposes only and isn't intended as medical advice.
Always consult with your doctor before making any changes to your diet, exercise, or health regimen.
Let's go to the show.

(00:52):
I'm a person that likes efficiency.
If I can figure out a way to do it easier so I could do more, I do.
And so it doesn't surprise me that when I came in this field, first off, I never thought I'd be in the mental health field because I'm Mexican.
We don't believe in mental health.
It's like that local or you're fine.
Get over it, go wash dishes and your depression will go. 12 00:01:13,975.17 --> 00:01:16,945.17 We experience the world differently. 13 00:01:17,65.17 --> 00:01:18,715.17 Our reality is different. 14 00:01:18,715.17 --> 00:01:21,595.17 We were just talking about how we our mother tongues. 15 00:01:21,595.17 --> 00:01:23,245.17 The Spanish for me is my mother tongue. 16 00:01:23,245.17 --> 00:01:26,995.17 It just doesn't feel the same for someone else who doesn't speak Spanish. 17 00:01:27,475.17 --> 00:01:34,45.17 And there's a familiarity to it that makes an instant connection that I feel comfortable with. 18 00:01:35,590.34 --> 00:01:37,450.34 because nobody can give you a manual for your life. 19 00:01:37,450.34 --> 00:01:45,40.34 We don't know what it's gonna bring, right? But what you can know is who you are and if you can redirect yourself to that. 20 00:01:45,595.34 --> 00:01:47,5.34 Then there's nothing you can't get through. 21 00:01:48,5.34 --> 00:01:48,965.34 You trust yourself. 22 00:01:55,898.027 --> 00:01:59,918.027 Today's guest is a fierce advocate, healer, and visionary leader. 23 00:02:00,308.027 --> 00:02:11,108.027 Estefani Johnson is the executive director of Aris Alliance, a nonprofit dedicated to empowering survivors of commercial sexual exploitation. 24 00:02:11,708.027 --> 00:02:13,28.027 A survivor herself. 25 00:02:13,238.027 --> 00:02:24,698.027 Estefani has transformed her lived experience into national advocacy, shaping trauma informed policies, training frontline professionals, and speaking truth to power. 26 00:02:25,88.027 --> 00:02:36,488.027 She's a certified trauma counselor with deep expertise in critical memory integration, a therapeutic method that helps survivors reframe their stories and reclaim their lives. 27 00:02:36,728.027 --> 00:02:38,498.027 Her work bridges science. 28 00:02:38,573.027 --> 00:02:43,73.027 Storytelling and justice, and it's changing lives across the country. 29 00:02:43,553.027 --> 00:02:47,453.027 Esef, welcome to Soma says, we're honored to have you. 30 00:02:48,453.027 --> 00:02:53,663.027 So I'm so excited to talk with you today, honestly, because you've obviously done a lot. 31 00:02:53,663.027 --> 00:02:54,983.027 It's fascinating stuff. 32 00:02:55,243.027 --> 00:03:01,393.027 You are very interesting to me at least, because you're a therapist, you're a licensed clinical social worker. 33 00:03:01,393.027 --> 00:03:06,153.027 You've had extensive background in mental health and worked in various. 34 00:03:06,153.027 --> 00:03:11,798.027 Fields, and now you are the director of clinical training at Arise Alliance Institute. 35 00:03:11,878.027 --> 00:03:12,88.027 Yeah. 36 00:03:12,88.027 --> 00:03:12,898.027 Yes, absolutely. 37 00:03:12,958.027 --> 00:03:19,199.027 I was part of the development team for critical memory integration, and then once we had it developed, became, the director for the. 38 00:03:20,178.027 --> 00:03:20,628.027 Training. 39 00:03:20,758.027 --> 00:03:32,318.027 And why I find you being a guest so integral at this point is this program that you've developed the critical memory integration? CMI? Yes. 40 00:03:33,8.027 --> 00:03:33,128.027 Yeah. 41 00:03:33,128.027 --> 00:03:34,988.027 Which you developed a couple years ago. 42 00:03:34,988.027 --> 00:03:36,198.027 So tell us about that. 43 00:03:36,248.027 --> 00:03:40,688.027 I'm so fascinated by all of it that I wanna talk about it as soon as possible. 44 00:03:41,188.027 --> 00:03:43,138.027 I'm a person that likes efficiency. 45 00:03:43,168.027 --> 00:03:46,618.027 If I can figure out a way to do it easier so I could do more, I do. 46 00:03:46,888.027 --> 00:03:53,718.027 And so it doesn't surprise me that when I came in this field, first off, I never thought I'd be in the mental health field because I'm Mexican. 47 00:03:53,748.027 --> 00:03:54,948.027 We don't believe in mental health. 48 00:03:54,948.027 --> 00:03:57,468.027 It's like that local or you're fine. 49 00:03:57,468.027 --> 00:03:59,928.027 Get over it, go wash dishes and your depression will go. 50 00:03:59,928.027 --> 00:04:08,338.027 So I think that I am Hispanic, I am Latina then as well, because they're like, why are you so depressed? There's nothing for you to be depressed about. 51 00:04:09,618.027 --> 00:04:10,38.027 Yes. 52 00:04:10,548.027 --> 00:04:15,648.027 When I, there was a lot of tools that I realized that research has to be done a very particular way. 53 00:04:15,828.027 --> 00:04:16,98.027 Yes. 54 00:04:16,258.027 --> 00:04:20,998.027 You're almost ending up with a very homogeneous group by the time you can get through the studies. 55 00:04:20,998.027 --> 00:04:27,148.027 And so what I realized is a lot of the tools, I tried to learn everything I could 'cause I really wanted to be effective. 56 00:04:27,598.027 --> 00:04:33,658.027 But what the script was telling me with the intervention, the fidelity, what I was supposed to. 57 00:04:33,938.027 --> 00:04:39,218.027 Do was not matching what I was seeing, especially with the type of clients that I was working with. 58 00:04:39,218.027 --> 00:04:45,208.027 And I worked with at risk Youth Juvenile with sexual delinquency that were 11, 12 years old. 59 00:04:45,658.027 --> 00:04:45,748.027 Okay. 60 00:04:45,748.027 --> 00:04:52,978.027 And just didn't, there was something that was missing, which of course, there was trauma and we didn't know a lot about trauma when I first started in the field. 61 00:04:53,258.027 --> 00:04:54,578.027 Everything was cognitive. 62 00:04:55,28.027 --> 00:04:55,958.027 And so that kind of. 63 00:04:56,28.027 --> 00:05:06,228.027 Threw me on that journey of figuring out what are the missing pieces and is there a more efficient way to do this? 'cause I ain't got thousands of dollars to spend on 20 different trainings to address it 20 different ways. 64 00:05:06,278.027 --> 00:05:09,668.027 So those are some of the things that kind of drove this project. 65 00:05:11,98.027 --> 00:05:15,938.027 So tell us how it differs from the regular cognitive behavioral therapy. 66 00:05:15,938.027 --> 00:05:24,688.027 'cause God knows, I have so many patients where I'm like, have you thought about therapy? I'm not, I am not saying that therapy doesn't work for everyone. 67 00:05:25,233.027 --> 00:05:31,23.027 But there are certain patients where they're like, I've honestly tried and it does not help me. 68 00:05:31,743.027 --> 00:05:37,503.027 And I always wonder, maybe there's something that, it just doesn't benefit them. 69 00:05:37,963.027 --> 00:05:42,733.027 I try not to go down that rabbit hole of saying, okay, you're not trying, you are not doing that. 70 00:05:42,733.027 --> 00:05:42,734.027 No. 71 00:05:42,739.027 --> 00:05:43,962.027 It's not that They're not trying. 72 00:05:43,962.027 --> 00:05:51,282.027 So in Spanish we have a saying, it's every head is its own world, right? What that means is that. 73 00:05:52,302.027 --> 00:05:55,272.027 We experience the world differently. 74 00:05:55,392.027 --> 00:05:57,42.027 Our reality is different. 75 00:05:57,42.027 --> 00:05:59,922.027 We were just talking about how we our mother tongues. 76 00:05:59,922.027 --> 00:06:01,572.027 The Spanish for me is my mother tongue. 77 00:06:01,572.027 --> 00:06:05,322.027 It just doesn't feel the same for someone else who doesn't speak Spanish. 78 00:06:05,802.027 --> 00:06:12,372.027 And there's a familiarity to it that makes an instant connection that I feel comfortable with. 79 00:06:12,732.027 --> 00:06:19,992.027 And everything about how we function in this world follows that same path, how we grow up. 80 00:06:20,697.027 --> 00:06:36,137.027 What we learn, not just the language, but everything to how we attached, how we connect, how we interpret love, how we interpret ourselves and view ourselves all is this thing that this world that is created based off of the experiences that you have. 81 00:06:36,617.027 --> 00:06:42,977.027 And unfortunately, if your experiences were like myself, where I went to kindergarten and. 82 00:06:43,952.027 --> 00:06:47,582.027 Sat next to a kid who didn't know his last name, and I'm like, oh my gosh, he's dumb. 83 00:06:48,92.027 --> 00:06:49,712.027 I was like, wait, I'm at a table. 84 00:06:49,772.027 --> 00:06:50,972.027 I must be dumb too. 85 00:06:51,122.027 --> 00:06:51,452.027 Okay. 86 00:06:51,452.027 --> 00:06:52,412.027 That wasn't a trauma. 87 00:06:52,442.027 --> 00:07:05,792.027 That was like, they sat me there with good intention to help me have the support that I needed as a monolingual Spanish speaker, but my little brain interpreted that, made meaning of it in that little pivotal moment. 88 00:07:06,482.027 --> 00:07:09,872.027 Impacted the rest of my time in school where I thought I was dumb. 89 00:07:09,872.027 --> 00:07:11,792.027 I wouldn't even try homework. 90 00:07:11,792.027 --> 00:07:12,932.027 I was always getting in trouble. 91 00:07:12,932.027 --> 00:07:14,522.027 Called in the principal's office. 92 00:07:15,522.027 --> 00:07:17,472.027 It took me years to get out of that. 93 00:07:17,742.027 --> 00:07:22,32.027 And what I discovered is a lot of our experiences that we have, traumatic or not. 94 00:07:23,337.027 --> 00:07:29,377.027 Tend to almost program us in ways that sometimes is not congruent with who we are, not to the truth. 95 00:07:29,557.027 --> 00:07:42,817.027 And when we go to a therapist, 'cause it's like I feel like I can't breathe, I'm having panics and they look for well breathing techniques, or you gotta think differently, but it doesn't always get to, why do I think that way in the first place? Okay. 96 00:07:44,442.027 --> 00:07:45,922.027 That's what critical memory is doing. 97 00:07:45,922.027 --> 00:07:52,852.027 We call those critical moments, critical experiences that become memories because it's just outdated, right? It's old data. 98 00:07:53,422.027 --> 00:07:58,612.027 But unfortunately, if we're not aware of it, a lot of these things, I didn't know that I made the decision that moment. 99 00:07:58,612.027 --> 00:07:59,512.027 I didn't know it was a decision. 100 00:07:59,512.027 --> 00:08:05,2.027 Unfortunately so many of us can get limited, our lives are limited almost. 101 00:08:05,362.027 --> 00:08:19,42.027 Chained to these beliefs about ourselves, and it creates our emotion responses, our ability to experience discomfort or move away from it how we interpret relationships. 102 00:08:19,92.027 --> 00:08:22,332.027 How do we find it? How do we get to it? That's what CMI does. 103 00:08:23,532.027 --> 00:08:29,632.027 So do they do these critical memories? D does it happen in a, in a. 104 00:08:30,277.027 --> 00:08:49,637.027 In a flash where you may even think about it for a nanosecond, but it's not necessarily coming up into your consciousness or is it rooted in muscle memory where it might be, it may have, feel made you feel a certain way and that comes up like how does it manifest for people? Manifest? Yeah. 105 00:08:49,877.027 --> 00:08:50,897.027 All kinds of ways. 106 00:08:50,897.027 --> 00:08:50,927.027 Okay. 107 00:08:50,957.027 --> 00:08:52,637.027 And that's what makes this different too. 108 00:08:52,637.027 --> 00:08:57,587.027 The modality I was trained in before when I was a national trainer looks for images and scenes. 109 00:08:57,992.027 --> 00:09:03,242.027 You have to be able to visualize and there are people who can't visualize in their mind, and it's 20% of the population. 110 00:09:03,542.027 --> 00:09:07,682.027 There are people who had a somatic memory where their body responds. 111 00:09:07,862.027 --> 00:09:09,602.027 They don't know why it's responding that way. 112 00:09:09,602.027 --> 00:09:10,972.027 Like I had a kid who had AIT. 113 00:09:12,212.027 --> 00:09:13,82.027 The restrictive eating. 114 00:09:13,272.027 --> 00:09:15,102.027 And mom swore there was no trauma. 115 00:09:15,252.027 --> 00:09:16,332.027 And I'm working with him. 116 00:09:16,332.027 --> 00:09:22,872.027 And then after I'm like, it's really interesting that he keeps having a sensation down his esophagus and in the stomach. 117 00:09:23,352.027 --> 00:09:28,602.027 So when I asked, I don't remember how I asked it that this time mom was like, oh, we've always had to force him to eat. 118 00:09:28,902.027 --> 00:09:30,12.027 He was in the NICU and they. 119 00:09:30,822.027 --> 00:09:32,52.027 They had to do bolus feeds. 120 00:09:32,202.027 --> 00:09:34,842.027 Oh he would not, he's not gonna remember that here. 121 00:09:34,902.027 --> 00:09:35,292.027 Yeah. 122 00:09:35,292.027 --> 00:09:37,602.027 And his body pulls up that sensation. 123 00:09:37,672.027 --> 00:09:52,572.027 Starts impacting his ability to digest food, so part of the issue in our field is we tend to, because we have to manualize things, you have to limit it or put some structure to do this, and this is how it looks like. 124 00:09:52,992.027 --> 00:09:57,582.027 But with CMI, we're trying to teach individuals to attune. 125 00:09:58,257.027 --> 00:10:03,597.027 To the wisdom of the body and memories can provide, can present themselves so many different ways. 126 00:10:03,597.027 --> 00:10:08,307.027 It could be a cognition, it could be a narrative, a story, a belief. 127 00:10:08,337.027 --> 00:10:11,37.027 It could be somatic and you don't really know what it's connected to. 128 00:10:11,397.027 --> 00:10:12,687.027 It could be a felt sense. 129 00:10:12,897.027 --> 00:10:23,727.027 What I do know is how you know you got to it is because the place that you started, when you brought that up, it felt a certain way, and when we're done, it feels different. 130 00:10:25,392.027 --> 00:10:28,782.027 It's a felt experience, right? You can look at the same thing. 131 00:10:28,782.027 --> 00:10:30,642.027 Does not bring up the same response. 132 00:10:32,212.027 --> 00:10:34,212.027 I'm just wondering, how many of us. 133 00:10:34,692.027 --> 00:10:38,622.027 Are affected that maybe we are from a different country. 134 00:10:38,622.027 --> 00:10:47,772.027 I imagine maybe you were born here in the us yeah, I was born here, but we were chatting, our roots are, from somewhere else. 135 00:10:47,822.027 --> 00:11:04,92.027 How much of that in terms of how our parents manage stress and it's so different from how things are, from the rest of the country, right? They're not, they weren't necessarily, my parents at least, weren't integrated into Western society. 136 00:11:04,392.027 --> 00:11:05,52.027 Not at all. 137 00:11:05,167.027 --> 00:11:06,187.027 So think about it. 138 00:11:06,187.027 --> 00:11:08,347.027 If you had this portal. 139 00:11:08,917.027 --> 00:11:16,837.027 And when you go home, you port over, I port over to Mexico where you speak Spanish, where you throw chala, where, this is how they respond. 140 00:11:16,947.027 --> 00:11:21,507.027 Then at 8:00 AM on Monday morning, you transport to a portal. 141 00:11:21,507.027 --> 00:11:23,157.027 I call that portal the crosswalk. 142 00:11:23,197.027 --> 00:11:30,217.027 Because it went from one end to the other, and all of a sudden I'm in this other world that speaks a whole different language. 143 00:11:30,537.027 --> 00:11:32,427.027 The food is completely different. 144 00:11:32,767.027 --> 00:11:34,447.027 The expectations are different. 145 00:11:34,497.027 --> 00:11:39,77.027 I have compassion for my little self and other selves that come from two worlds like that. 146 00:11:39,77.027 --> 00:11:45,982.027 How do you integrate that? How do you make sense of that as a child? And we know that other people experience that too. 147 00:11:45,982.027 --> 00:11:49,192.027 You have broken homes where mom's educations are different from dads. 148 00:11:49,192.027 --> 00:11:51,502.027 You have to be this way here, that way there. 149 00:11:51,902.027 --> 00:12:06,137.027 But even individuals who experience trauma in their homes doesn't have to be a different, like race or country, could be just culturally what happens at home and the families that say that stays at home. 150 00:12:06,167.027 --> 00:12:07,427.027 You don't share that at school. 151 00:12:07,862.027 --> 00:12:13,502.027 At school, they're teaching you about bad touch or about respect, but then you go home and it's different expectations. 152 00:12:13,502.027 --> 00:12:14,341.027 It's a different world. 153 00:12:14,696.027 --> 00:12:20,876.027 Yeah, no, I have always said that it's, and it's a little better for my kids, but it's. 154 00:12:21,881.027 --> 00:12:26,201.027 It was straddling two different cultures and it's easier now. 155 00:12:26,321.027 --> 00:12:30,321.027 But still I feel like I still have to straddle two different cultures. 156 00:12:30,321.027 --> 00:12:33,741.027 And there's, don't get me wrong, there's a beauty to that as well. 157 00:12:33,981.027 --> 00:12:34,521.027 Absolutely. 158 00:12:34,521.027 --> 00:12:40,111.027 I tell people, when I like to talk, obviously so they said, you, God gave you two years in one mouth. 159 00:12:40,111.027 --> 00:12:41,761.027 I said, yeah, but he gave me two languages. 160 00:12:43,361.027 --> 00:12:55,421.027 You have a lot to share so share with me who you think, obviously a lot of people can benefit from it, but in your experience, first break it down. 161 00:12:55,471.027 --> 00:13:10,946.027 How is CMI different than talk therapy and who have you seen that it benefits the most? The biggest thing is the individuals that have certain diagnosis that even most therapists would say I won't treat this specific diagnosis. 162 00:13:11,366.027 --> 00:13:12,626.027 Those are the ones that do the best. 163 00:13:12,626.027 --> 00:13:12,656.027 Okay. 164 00:13:12,656.027 --> 00:13:13,886.027 Because it's complex trauma. 165 00:13:13,986.027 --> 00:13:24,186.027 But I would say if you wanted to get a visual, so typically how I was trained, before you come into my office and you tell me I have this issue. 166 00:13:24,796.027 --> 00:13:31,126.027 When I go to my work, I get really irritated and then I say things I legit had a client that was like, I just don't wanna get written up at work. 167 00:13:31,126.027 --> 00:13:33,766.027 That was our noble goal, is to not get written up at work. 168 00:13:34,486.027 --> 00:13:35,566.027 I like the spicy ones. 169 00:13:36,76.027 --> 00:13:49,91.027 And so with the, maybe the common, more common approach would be, let's talk about how that makes you feel, or what the situations or how are you interpreting, how like the thought process. 170 00:13:49,101.027 --> 00:13:55,641.027 Your cognitions, right? Then practice some breathing, practice regulation, grounding techniques. 171 00:13:55,641.027 --> 00:14:02,151.027 Maybe we do some visualization of Frankie saying the thing that Frankie says, and you respond differently. 172 00:14:02,331.027 --> 00:14:07,581.027 So there's all these techniques that I learned to help people try to change how they respond. 173 00:14:08,91.027 --> 00:14:10,911.027 Of something that happened as a child. 174 00:14:10,941.027 --> 00:14:11,181.027 Yeah. 175 00:14:11,451.027 --> 00:14:15,471.027 Where this feeling was tied to a survival mechanism. 176 00:14:16,41.027 --> 00:14:22,641.027 If it's survival there, you're not gonna outthink your nervous system that you're not going to rationalize with it. 177 00:14:22,821.027 --> 00:14:27,981.027 Ask anyone who's gone through, let's say, like a dog attack, they can understand it here. 178 00:14:28,371.027 --> 00:14:28,521.027 Yeah. 179 00:14:28,521.027 --> 00:14:29,331.027 At this level. 180 00:14:29,841.027 --> 00:14:33,501.027 But before they can even activate that, the body has already responded. 181 00:14:33,681.027 --> 00:14:36,981.027 If you've experienced differently, then you could do differently. 182 00:14:37,371.027 --> 00:14:38,691.027 And that's where people get stuck. 183 00:14:38,691.027 --> 00:14:43,641.027 Why we get the clients that get frustrated and say, therapy doesn't work because it didn't connect. 184 00:14:44,316.027 --> 00:14:47,946.027 To what it needed to connect to, didn't get to the root of the issue. 185 00:14:48,546.027 --> 00:14:51,666.027 And with CMI, I'm not the expert, you're the expert. 186 00:14:52,56.027 --> 00:14:56,346.027 So what I'm doing is I'm walking you through the pathway to find the answer. 187 00:14:56,556.027 --> 00:14:57,456.027 And we hear that a lot. 188 00:14:57,456.027 --> 00:14:58,266.027 It's ancient wisdom. 189 00:14:58,266.027 --> 00:14:59,406.027 The answers are within. 190 00:14:59,536.027 --> 00:15:04,366.027 I remember as a kid, I'm like, what the heck does that mean? Because I just see guts and you know the heart. 191 00:15:04,366.027 --> 00:15:17,586.027 As a kid, you're very literal, but it really is understanding and tuning into those signals in the body that are letting you know, Hey, this response, the shame that we feel when we act a little extra. 192 00:15:18,591.027 --> 00:15:20,451.027 The guilt or the frustration. 193 00:15:20,451.027 --> 00:15:27,201.027 'cause we keep finding ourselves in the same situation over and we tell ourselves we won't do it no more, but then we find ourselves doing it. 194 00:15:27,741.027 --> 00:15:32,901.027 It can really wear down on a person and you start thinking that you're not capable of. 195 00:15:32,901.027 --> 00:15:41,511.027 And what CMI does is it helps you get to the root of those things so that you can, it frees you to reclaim that agency, that sense of control. 196 00:15:42,171.027 --> 00:15:49,611.027 Tell people you could still be gangster, you could still be g and approach if you want to, but it's not a reaction, it's a choice now. 197 00:15:50,831.027 --> 00:16:03,131.027 Do you think that that CMI can be practiced with other modalities talk therapy and EMDR, or do you think that it's, it should be done in and of itself? No. 198 00:16:03,131.027 --> 00:16:04,541.027 The way it was created. 199 00:16:05,501.027 --> 00:16:06,611.027 Intentionally. 200 00:16:06,741.027 --> 00:16:20,501.027 We went through and sifted through some of the best, most evidence-based modalities and we wanted to know what works here, why does it work? How do they approach it, how they perceive it, how do they conceptualize it? And we layered it to see what are the common elements and then we. 201 00:16:20,501.027 --> 00:16:38,851.027 Compared it against, what do we know about memory? What does neuroscience say about how memory impacts our functioning, our sense of self, our perspective? How are emotions made? What are emotions for all of those things? And we try to piece it together to get a better puzzle of how humans become. 202 00:16:40,901.027 --> 00:16:44,831.027 Do what they do, become who they are and why we get stuck. 203 00:16:44,831.027 --> 00:16:47,241.027 And that's why we call it a critical memory. 204 00:16:47,241.027 --> 00:16:49,611.027 We don't call it a trauma 'cause it might not even be traumatic. 205 00:16:50,151.027 --> 00:17:02,991.027 It's just essentially some form of programming that happened, whether because it's our culture or because we went through a horrific event and our adaptive response was to go that way or was a thing that helped to survive. 206 00:17:03,476.027 --> 00:17:11,326.027 Do you have any stories where we can understand how CMI has helped your patients? I have so many stories. 207 00:17:11,376.027 --> 00:17:22,626.027 the biggest thing I think is the most beautiful thing is to have individuals come and tell me how much they. 208 00:17:23,541.027 --> 00:17:27,51.027 Learn to like themselves and appreciate themselves. 209 00:17:27,51.027 --> 00:17:28,101.027 And that was really hard. 210 00:17:28,101.027 --> 00:17:34,191.027 I think as a therapist, when you have someone who struggles with self-hatred or shame, guilt, they don't appreciate themselves. 211 00:17:34,671.027 --> 00:17:42,231.027 But I can tell you, people will come and will do their intake and we do a little bit of that work, and that's all they needed is like you. 212 00:17:42,321.027 --> 00:17:44,1.027 You point the needle in the right direction. 213 00:17:44,481.027 --> 00:17:47,931.027 And then by the time I see 'em again, they're like, oh my gosh, it changed my life. 214 00:17:48,271.027 --> 00:17:56,391.027 Everything changed and it at the beginning I'm like, really? Is it that easy? Because we're not getting tangled up and trying to Reason and logic. 215 00:17:56,596.027 --> 00:17:56,926.027 Yeah. 216 00:17:56,926.027 --> 00:18:02,926.027 Once we get and unhook that one thing that was driving everything, the entire perspective changes. 217 00:18:03,136.027 --> 00:18:05,716.027 And it's like before you're looking at life through a straw. 218 00:18:05,771.027 --> 00:18:09,971.027 And now that you unhook that your whole perspective changes and now you have the freedom. 219 00:18:09,971.027 --> 00:18:14,961.027 You see why you did that, but you understand what else is possible I don't even know how to describe it. 220 00:18:14,991.027 --> 00:18:21,201.027 The one word I would use is like that sense of self, that agency, you gotta learn to trust yourself. 221 00:18:21,891.027 --> 00:18:28,762.027 And this is what I sometimes would see happen over time with other approaches, but not always. 222 00:18:29,712.027 --> 00:18:37,272.027 And now what I see is when my clients get to a place and they realize, really understand that I was just holding the space. 223 00:18:37,452.027 --> 00:18:42,672.027 They did the work, they have the capacity, and they can continue without me. 224 00:18:42,732.027 --> 00:18:43,812.027 They don't need me anymore. 225 00:18:44,82.027 --> 00:18:45,882.027 That's the beautiful thing. 226 00:18:46,392.027 --> 00:18:47,352.027 Sad to watch them go. 227 00:18:47,352.027 --> 00:18:48,252.027 It's beautiful. 228 00:18:48,252.027 --> 00:18:48,822.027 It's amazing. 229 00:18:48,822.027 --> 00:19:03,887.027 On average, how long do you think with those patients who are receiving CMI on average, how long does it usually take? I would say a lot of the clients that I see might have average of five to six sessions. 230 00:19:04,22.027 --> 00:19:04,412.027 Okay. 231 00:19:04,682.027 --> 00:19:09,632.027 But I've had so many who come in, we do the first session, they start. 232 00:19:10,382.027 --> 00:19:17,222.027 Doing the work on their own at home, come in, verify, and then maybe the third session, they're just checking their answers like, yep. 233 00:19:18,182.027 --> 00:19:19,322.027 And they don't need me anymore. 234 00:19:19,352.027 --> 00:19:24,747.027 They know where to look because the biggest issue is that somehow we're taught to escape discomfort. 235 00:19:25,247.027 --> 00:19:26,867.027 You shouldn't cry or you shouldn't. 236 00:19:27,377.027 --> 00:19:31,487.027 And that's the first thing we talk about is that those are signals from your body. 237 00:19:31,727.027 --> 00:19:34,217.027 They hold data, information, you keep running from it. 238 00:19:34,217.027 --> 00:19:35,237.027 It's gonna keep persisting. 239 00:19:35,237.027 --> 00:19:37,837.027 Like that 2-year-old Mommy mommy, just keeps chasing you. 240 00:19:38,467.027 --> 00:19:40,687.027 Turn around, learn how to attune to it. 241 00:19:41,47.027 --> 00:19:42,397.027 Learn what it's teaching you. 242 00:19:42,847.027 --> 00:19:45,757.027 Connect experience. 243 00:19:45,847.027 --> 00:19:49,297.027 That's the piece of integration, is that memory reconsolidation. 244 00:19:49,297.027 --> 00:19:55,597.027 That means that when the information comes up, it's susceptible to change, but if you sprinkle more fear on it, it becomes stronger. 245 00:19:56,97.027 --> 00:20:01,767.027 So we want to be able to explore those things and that's where I hold that space therapist holds that space. 246 00:20:02,97.027 --> 00:20:09,627.027 But once a person does that, it's like you do something that you're afraid of, someone accompanies you, you do it a couple times. 247 00:20:09,627.027 --> 00:20:11,397.027 Eventually you feel comfortable doing it on your own. 248 00:20:12,957.027 --> 00:20:22,537.027 Do you find with your patients that it's just usually just one hook or is it a few hooks or many hooks that, that they have Yeah. 249 00:20:22,537.027 --> 00:20:28,207.027 That you have to unhook them from? I call this our, like the networks in our brain library of experience. 250 00:20:28,207.027 --> 00:20:31,327.027 sometimes you only have to unhook one thing. 251 00:20:31,407.027 --> 00:20:32,607.027 To get the ball rolling. 252 00:20:33,507.027 --> 00:20:43,697.027 If you've ever had a situation where you discover, let's say you knew a couple and then you found out one of them was cheating or something, you're like, what, George? Never. 253 00:20:44,117.027 --> 00:20:54,107.027 And your brain starts pulling up all this data, all these experiences, or you're like, wait, he left this early, or he was traveling here It does it naturally. 254 00:20:54,827.027 --> 00:21:07,697.027 That's the process of reorganizing that our brain does, and it's beautiful that it does that 'cause it's a lot more efficient, but it can be overwhelming if it's connected to all kinds of other traumatic experiences. 255 00:21:08,117.027 --> 00:21:14,607.027 So sometimes a person is on the cusp of grasping this and knowing, of getting it. 256 00:21:14,607.027 --> 00:21:21,227.027 Once you lay out the instructions They go through it once they're like, okay, and they can go do it. 257 00:21:21,772.027 --> 00:21:23,387.027 It might be a couple sessions and they're done. 258 00:21:23,487.027 --> 00:21:35,757.027 But if you have someone that has a library of trauma where there's some scary places that require connection at that time, then I serve as that support. 259 00:21:35,787.027 --> 00:21:38,37.027 It's you don't go to a scary house by yourself. 260 00:21:38,37.027 --> 00:21:46,622.027 What's the point? You want your friend to go so you can make fun of each other whenever you get scared, you can get a lot more courage when you're accompanying you. 261 00:21:46,622.027 --> 00:21:52,352.027 You often, I think, write about your own personal transformation journey, with CMI training. 262 00:21:52,832.027 --> 00:22:05,652.027 Can you share with us about what you write about and how it's transformed your life? Oh, I tell everyone on my own case study because there's so many things that, I didn't even think were an issue. 263 00:22:06,372.027 --> 00:22:13,332.027 There's the obvious ones where there's signals when you feel certain feelings and you wanna tune into it. 264 00:22:13,332.027 --> 00:22:16,532.027 And, we know with the political environment right now. 265 00:22:16,842.027 --> 00:22:21,72.027 I had to do a talk with A-A-D-E-I department. 266 00:22:21,312.027 --> 00:22:30,132.027 A few, like maybe three months ago, they asked me to do this talk and she was saying we have a lot of our, employees that are struggling, right? 'cause they're federal workers afraid of losing their job. 267 00:22:30,132.027 --> 00:22:32,32.027 Other ones, we have a couple of DACA workers. 268 00:22:32,32.027 --> 00:22:33,532.027 And I said, absolutely. 269 00:22:33,532.027 --> 00:22:35,202.027 I'll come wherever I'm invited. 270 00:22:35,202.027 --> 00:22:40,962.027 And then I left and I started feeling this sense of overwhelm. 271 00:22:41,622.027 --> 00:22:45,462.027 And it's not that I don't know the stuff, of course I wrote the stuff. 272 00:22:45,462.027 --> 00:22:46,32.027 I was here. 273 00:22:46,42.027 --> 00:22:47,332.027 I'm one of the ones that created it. 274 00:22:47,942.027 --> 00:22:51,392.027 But I couldn't really tell what was happening internally. 275 00:22:51,392.027 --> 00:22:56,872.027 And I was talking to Kelly, our supervisor, like our director, and she said, you should sound excited. 276 00:22:56,872.027 --> 00:22:57,922.027 This is a good opportunity. 277 00:22:57,972.027 --> 00:23:03,652.027 Of course I had to, come home and explore what was going on connected to early childhood. 278 00:23:03,682.027 --> 00:23:07,822.027 My parents are first generation, but when I was born, they didn't have their citizenship yet. 279 00:23:08,252.027 --> 00:23:13,632.027 I was very much a witness to deportation, to, having family split. 280 00:23:13,632.027 --> 00:23:16,482.027 The fear as a kid, you don't know about boundaries. 281 00:23:16,852.027 --> 00:23:20,2.027 What does it mean to be a citizen? I would get scared every time we cross the bridge. 282 00:23:20,52.027 --> 00:23:23,322.027 Just silly things that maybe other people don't think about. 283 00:23:23,742.027 --> 00:23:39,222.027 And all of this just came flooding and I realized this situation had activated this unintegrated, this little 4-year-old girl that had witnessed some stuff and the overwhelm was hers, not the adult self. 284 00:23:39,882.027 --> 00:23:46,32.027 So I had to go and take care of her and connect with her, connect with that experience, and that's what we do. 285 00:23:46,32.027 --> 00:24:02,262.027 We often do that hand on the heart, which is you're activating that network memory trace, and what you're doing is you're bringing in all of the tools the things that we have now that I didn't have back then. 286 00:24:02,637.027 --> 00:24:03,27.027 Okay. 287 00:24:03,27.027 --> 00:24:09,57.027 To be able to connect that so that we update and the brain doesn't think we're still four years old. 288 00:24:09,57.027 --> 00:24:13,377.027 And now responsible to alleviate or help other people outside of us. 289 00:24:13,707.027 --> 00:24:24,597.027 And so that feeling came down and I was able to then connect to my adult self of, Hey, I know the path and share this in a way that my biggest fear is. 290 00:24:24,807.027 --> 00:24:28,107.027 I don't want people to think that I don't understand. 291 00:24:28,797.027 --> 00:24:40,592.027 Those that are also passionate about setting boundaries But as a human, my experiences can sneak up on that training and show up emotionally or whether I'm aware of it or not. 292 00:24:40,612.027 --> 00:24:43,167.027 We call that like transference and counter transference. 293 00:24:43,347.027 --> 00:24:43,647.027 Yes. 294 00:24:43,647.027 --> 00:24:47,627.027 That was like a recent thing that happened that I was able to go back and. 295 00:24:48,107.027 --> 00:24:55,457.027 Really be present and give the wisdom and the information without feeling so way down and activated. 296 00:24:55,957.027 --> 00:25:08,967.027 And thank you so much for sharing that because obviously you are a trained mental health specialist and there's so many people that function from a point of survival, and they don't even realize it. 297 00:25:09,387.027 --> 00:25:18,957.027 I think it would be useful to know for our audience, what are those signs of trauma that someone is functioning from that kind of space. 298 00:25:19,617.027 --> 00:25:26,757.027 So I wanna really first expand our understanding of, I wanna get away from pathologizing. 299 00:25:26,807.027 --> 00:25:30,857.027 Even the word trauma, that's why we didn't use the word trauma in critical memory integration. 300 00:25:30,977.027 --> 00:25:36,137.027 What I would like to say is, if you find yourself where. 301 00:25:36,402.027 --> 00:25:39,762.027 You know what you need to do, but you can't get yourself to do it. 302 00:25:40,542.027 --> 00:25:47,112.027 You get stuck or you are in a situation and you get upset and you're like, okay, that was like a level two problem. 303 00:25:47,112.027 --> 00:25:48,672.027 And I went full blown level 10. 304 00:25:49,182.027 --> 00:25:50,412.027 There's an incongruence. 305 00:25:50,412.027 --> 00:25:56,112.027 There's something that you're just acting a little extra or this thing shouldn't bother you that much, but it does. 306 00:25:56,977.027 --> 00:26:00,197.027 Or you find yourself in themes like, picking the same partners. 307 00:26:00,407.027 --> 00:26:03,107.027 You're like, I don't want that type of guy, and then you're there again. 308 00:26:03,557.027 --> 00:26:10,127.027 Or the same friendships, why does this always happen to me? Those are the things that I would look for to get curious. 309 00:26:10,337.027 --> 00:26:17,687.027 But oftentimes these things that are actually controlling that lie way deeper beneath our conscious awareness. 310 00:26:18,197.027 --> 00:26:30,467.027 So with CMI, as you're going through the process, you might discover that this thing that you did that doesn't logically connect is actually what's driving your reaction. 311 00:26:30,467.027 --> 00:26:34,127.027 It has nothing to do with the situation, and it has to do with something back there. 312 00:26:34,457.027 --> 00:26:35,927.027 Sometimes it is a trauma. 313 00:26:36,302.027 --> 00:26:45,392.027 There's old pain that you didn't process, that you didn't digest, but oftentimes it's how you integrate experience. 314 00:26:45,422.027 --> 00:26:47,882.027 That is the problem, not the experience itself. 315 00:26:48,782.027 --> 00:27:03,242.027 So if I had an experience as a little girl where I had to care for myself because my parents were working, and so I take everything, I take responsibility for everything, and now I get into adulthood and there are things I can't care for. 316 00:27:03,792.027 --> 00:27:09,852.027 You get stuck and overwhelmed and helplessness, you start going into panic because your nervous system just knows there's a problem. 317 00:27:10,152.027 --> 00:27:13,452.027 Doesn't know that problem is that there's a tiger chasing you and it's gonna kill you. 318 00:27:13,572.027 --> 00:27:13,842.027 Yeah. 319 00:27:13,962.027 --> 00:27:16,512.027 Or if the problem is that people might see you fail. 320 00:27:17,802.027 --> 00:27:19,572.027 It's gonna respond as if there's danger. 321 00:27:19,602.027 --> 00:27:22,272.027 Just increase heart rate muscle, all of those things. 322 00:27:22,352.027 --> 00:27:32,102.027 But I think that's so important for us, and that's really what we're trying to change, that's like when I talk about the mission, it's to normalize these human experiences. 323 00:27:32,102.027 --> 00:27:37,142.027 Stop pathologizing them because we know the trauma isn't because of what happened. 324 00:27:37,142.027 --> 00:27:40,502.027 It's what happened inside of you as a result of that experience. 325 00:27:40,832.027 --> 00:27:48,212.027 So why you could have people go through the exact same car accident, death, assault, whatever it is, and not be traumatized, not have the symptoms. 326 00:27:49,82.027 --> 00:27:49,172.027 Yeah. 327 00:27:50,672.027 --> 00:28:06,822.027 I think, you've touched upon something and I've always wondered, there are certain types of people, including myself, who have been drawn to healthcare, becoming doctors, nurses, social workers and it's that caregiving, that taking care. 328 00:28:07,152.027 --> 00:28:08,142.027 Of others. 329 00:28:08,502.027 --> 00:28:18,282.027 And it took me a long time 'cause I was seeing it within relationships and I was like, okay, this, I am the caregiver, I am the person who takes care. 330 00:28:18,282.027 --> 00:28:23,892.027 And so I'm not saying that I necessarily withdraw from all of that. 331 00:28:23,902.027 --> 00:28:28,288.027 It's my bread and butter and I, it gives me joy and I like helping other people. 332 00:28:28,828.027 --> 00:28:37,318.027 But when it crosses over into another realm, that's when you know there's Yes, there's stuff going on. 333 00:28:37,368.027 --> 00:28:42,378.027 For me, because of my background, my go-to adaptive response was aggression. 334 00:28:42,693.027 --> 00:28:43,263.027 Anger. 335 00:28:43,443.027 --> 00:28:45,183.027 I thought that's what, that's how I survived. 336 00:28:45,183.027 --> 00:28:46,953.027 I was always getting in trouble for fights at school. 337 00:28:47,173.027 --> 00:28:50,433.027 By the time you become an adult, you can't resolve issues that way. 338 00:28:50,463.027 --> 00:28:52,953.027 HR gets called and all these things happen. 339 00:28:53,523.027 --> 00:28:58,733.027 But if you had a person who, as a child, did the people pleasing and appeasing. 340 00:28:59,648.027 --> 00:29:03,58.027 And they don't their feelings were not taking account. 341 00:29:03,418.027 --> 00:29:05,218.027 They weren't able to express themselves. 342 00:29:05,268.027 --> 00:29:05,868.027 They didn't count. 343 00:29:05,868.027 --> 00:29:07,938.027 Then they become people pleasers as adults. 344 00:29:08,248.027 --> 00:29:10,918.027 Guess what? The world loves people pleasers. 345 00:29:11,678.027 --> 00:29:14,108.027 There's no pressure externally to change that. 346 00:29:14,438.027 --> 00:29:23,558.027 But where does that disruption, where does that disconnect happen internally? So you have a person who is a kindhearted individual. 347 00:29:23,798.027 --> 00:29:29,738.027 Loving individual, and yet they can't seem to give enough to make other people happy. 348 00:29:29,958.027 --> 00:29:30,708.027 Because they can't. 349 00:29:31,8.027 --> 00:29:34,368.027 So that is the work of understanding that boundary. 350 00:29:34,518.027 --> 00:29:39,858.027 And you can't do that without starting to care for yourself, without looking at yourself. 351 00:29:39,858.027 --> 00:29:45,378.027 The way you look at others, and I hear this all the time, oh, I can have endless patience for others, but not myself. 352 00:29:45,978.027 --> 00:29:47,358.027 I love others but not myself. 353 00:29:47,848.027 --> 00:29:51,718.027 Guess what? That's called? That's called manipulation, honey. 354 00:29:51,778.027 --> 00:29:57,838.027 'cause what you're doing is you're learning to behave in a way that you get results that keep you safe. 355 00:29:58,918.027 --> 00:30:01,528.027 But the problem is that's not authentic connection. 356 00:30:02,558.027 --> 00:30:08,108.027 And you wonder why you feel alone, why you feel disconnected, because it's not you that's showing up. 357 00:30:08,888.027 --> 00:30:13,718.027 It's aversion, right? It's of you that you have created to survive. 358 00:30:13,898.027 --> 00:30:21,658.027 Doesn't mean that you're really a bad person but you gotta learn that boundary and the only way to do that is to connect with yourself first. 359 00:30:21,658.027 --> 00:30:26,998.027 Know what is you and what is adaptive, and then learn the skill to set that boundary. 360 00:30:27,178.027 --> 00:30:27,508.027 Yeah. 361 00:30:29,263.027 --> 00:30:29,863.027 Absolutely. 362 00:30:29,863.027 --> 00:30:31,303.027 That was so well said. 363 00:30:31,723.027 --> 00:30:44,563.027 And I think it's a very difficult message for people to hear sometimes because it's such a deeply rooted thing that a lot of the work is just to recognize Yes. 364 00:30:45,113.027 --> 00:30:46,463.027 That's what's going on. 365 00:30:47,303.027 --> 00:30:47,513.027 Yeah. 366 00:30:47,513.027 --> 00:30:49,133.027 And the talk is not gonna change it. 367 00:30:49,373.027 --> 00:30:53,183.027 Talk rationalizing that, that part of the brain. 368 00:30:54,293.027 --> 00:30:56,783.027 Hits last, you feel it in Spanish. 369 00:30:56,783.027 --> 00:31:00,473.027 There's this word called, which is like pre-filling. 370 00:31:01,223.027 --> 00:31:02,543.027 It's like that gut feeling you have. 371 00:31:02,753.027 --> 00:31:02,813.027 Yeah. 372 00:31:02,863.027 --> 00:31:05,593.027 That's where everything starts and then it creates the feeling. 373 00:31:05,643.027 --> 00:31:06,693.027 The cognition comes. 374 00:31:06,963.027 --> 00:31:07,83.027 Yeah. 375 00:31:07,83.027 --> 00:31:12,513.027 And it's all connected, but our subconscious mind is picking up stuff before you even aware of it. 376 00:31:12,543.027 --> 00:31:12,813.027 Yeah. 377 00:31:12,963.027 --> 00:31:15,993.027 So your behavior already started before you can even outthink it. 378 00:31:16,308.027 --> 00:31:22,308.027 Yeah, see certain words, certain things are not necessarily translated well into English. 379 00:31:22,548.027 --> 00:31:37,808.027 So what you just said, right? I guess the closest, and this is more medical than an, the actual word I would think of is like an aura, right? But I cannot think of any other word that, that would, equate to what you've just said, but Exactly. 380 00:31:37,808.027 --> 00:31:51,73.027 It's that exact what, what you feel that there's no actual word that I can describe that triggers that reaction in you and what happens with anyone with a migraine. 381 00:31:51,553.027 --> 00:31:56,863.027 If you don't take care of that when the aura hits, it's gonna be really hard to try to. 382 00:31:58,273.027 --> 00:32:00,703.027 To take the pain down to regularly afterward. 383 00:32:00,703.027 --> 00:32:02,113.027 Now you're out for the night. 384 00:32:02,113.027 --> 00:32:03,643.027 Now you've got to take these meds. 385 00:32:03,643.027 --> 00:32:05,53.027 You can't go to work or whatever it is. 386 00:32:05,53.027 --> 00:32:12,13.027 So you learn to tune into those things, right? You learn to listen to your body or also consequences could be severe. 387 00:32:12,433.027 --> 00:32:21,863.027 Unfortunately, with behavioral health or with mental health, we wait until after the headache's there, and then we are trying to use the tools To shut it off. 388 00:32:21,983.027 --> 00:32:22,313.027 Yeah. 389 00:32:22,643.027 --> 00:32:24,503.027 Instead of recognizing how it shows up. 390 00:32:26,723.027 --> 00:32:30,963.027 You were saying that in CMI, you avoid using the word trauma. 391 00:32:32,103.027 --> 00:32:40,833.027 What's the difference between desensitization of symptoms versus actually integrating trauma? What's the difference? I. 392 00:32:41,643.027 --> 00:32:50,333.027 So have you ever I don't know about your history with cars, but you ever driven a car where the light, the check engine light turns on? Yes. 393 00:32:50,483.027 --> 00:32:51,653.027 Can't figure out what's up. 394 00:32:51,653.027 --> 00:32:53,303.027 Piece of duct tape on it takes care of it. 395 00:32:53,853.027 --> 00:32:59,233.027 And then you could drive peacefully, that we could desensitize so that it doesn't bother us anymore. 396 00:32:59,513.027 --> 00:33:01,643.027 This feeling that comes up, let me breathe it away. 397 00:33:01,673.027 --> 00:33:10,523.027 And I say this intentionally because I am guilty of giving coping management skills to people without ever getting to the root of why we're responding that way. 398 00:33:10,733.027 --> 00:33:13,403.027 And I think it comes from, no offense, like medical model. 399 00:33:13,658.027 --> 00:33:14,78.027 Yeah. 400 00:33:14,468.027 --> 00:33:14,648.027 Yeah. 401 00:33:14,648.027 --> 00:33:17,468.027 You can make more money off of treating something with drugs. 402 00:33:17,518.027 --> 00:33:17,878.027 Yeah. 403 00:33:17,998.027 --> 00:33:21,148.027 You change your diet, you change these things, and then you don't have to take the pill. 404 00:33:21,388.027 --> 00:33:21,538.027 Yeah. 405 00:33:21,538.027 --> 00:33:30,898.027 And so this, it's the same thing in mental health is that here you are constantly managing and it'll work until that one thing hits the threshold and you regress. 406 00:33:30,948.027 --> 00:33:37,398.027 So that's part of the thing is desensitizing would be like making that signal. 407 00:33:37,863.027 --> 00:33:40,563.027 Down so you can't hear it and it doesn't bother you anymore. 408 00:33:40,683.027 --> 00:33:41,43.027 Okay. 409 00:33:41,643.027 --> 00:33:47,273.027 So I could still think about the thing and it doesn't activate me, and I could still continue functioning. 410 00:33:47,603.027 --> 00:33:55,313.027 It's a very useful thing, but it doesn't mean it's integrated and that's the difference when you integrate something. 411 00:33:55,313.027 --> 00:33:56,993.027 So the goal isn't to. 412 00:33:57,668.027 --> 00:34:02,368.027 Make it so that it doesn't bother you, even though that is a result of it. 413 00:34:02,668.027 --> 00:34:08,573.027 The goal is to connect and those details, that experience I call it phantom pain. 414 00:34:08,663.027 --> 00:34:09,563.027 It's disembodied. 415 00:34:09,563.027 --> 00:34:10,343.027 It's from back there. 416 00:34:10,343.027 --> 00:34:15,203.027 It's not happening right now, and update that in your brain once it's updated. 417 00:34:15,228.027 --> 00:34:17,718.027 Because your brain is like a prediction machine. 418 00:34:18,23.027 --> 00:34:21,463.027 It wants to know what's happening, right? But it needs this, reference point. 419 00:34:21,463.027 --> 00:34:30,163.027 So it's not pulling from something where the activation, where the danger was back there, because then it causes your body to respond as if you're still there. 420 00:34:30,673.027 --> 00:34:36,613.027 Once it knows that it's a result, then it is able to give you a more appropriate response. 421 00:34:36,623.027 --> 00:34:40,433.027 A person might still be annoying, but they're not like, they don't push you to a 10. 422 00:34:40,763.027 --> 00:34:44,63.027 Allows you to be more fully present in the moment. 423 00:34:45,383.027 --> 00:34:54,983.027 Do you find that when someone goes through this type of treatment therapy, if you wanna call it the CMI, the integration that. 424 00:34:56,18.027 --> 00:35:00,68.027 They don't necessarily need any more help after that. 425 00:35:00,68.027 --> 00:35:06,188.027 Or perhaps they'll be okay for a good amount of time and then maybe they need to come back again. 426 00:35:06,288.027 --> 00:35:11,243.027 To remind themselves how does that work? I use the analogy of washing dishes, okay. 427 00:35:11,723.027 --> 00:35:13,253.027 You're done, but you're never done. 428 00:35:13,643.027 --> 00:35:18,523.027 Okay? Because if I come in and you're like, I don't know what to do, my kitchen stinks. 429 00:35:18,583.027 --> 00:35:19,333.027 It's terrible. 430 00:35:19,333.027 --> 00:35:20,773.027 I can't even function there no more. 431 00:35:20,773.027 --> 00:35:23,593.027 And I come in and I'm like, oh, honey, we gotta get your dishes washed. 432 00:35:23,643.027 --> 00:35:25,233.027 And you might need some help with that. 433 00:35:25,233.027 --> 00:35:26,703.027 If you've never washed dishes before. 434 00:35:26,703.027 --> 00:35:27,843.027 Let me show you what you do. 435 00:35:27,843.027 --> 00:35:30,123.027 You use soap, you rinse it here, dry, put away. 436 00:35:30,958.027 --> 00:35:31,588.027 After. 437 00:35:31,588.027 --> 00:35:34,708.027 At some point we'll get through all of them, right? Or enough of them. 438 00:35:35,68.027 --> 00:35:37,138.027 But even then, you still gotta eat in between. 439 00:35:37,888.027 --> 00:35:44,728.027 So as they come, you've now learned the skill of how to process life as it comes. 440 00:35:45,673.027 --> 00:35:47,83.027 There's going to be discomfort. 441 00:35:47,363.027 --> 00:35:54,713.027 I remember looking at, I don't know how old I was, but I'm like, okay, so we have eighth grade and then we have, senior graduation. 442 00:35:54,713.027 --> 00:35:57,743.027 You get married, you have kids, you get a job. 443 00:35:57,743.027 --> 00:36:01,103.027 Like all these milestones, it seems so beautiful. 444 00:36:02,958.027 --> 00:36:09,128.027 After retirement, like your joints giveaway, your parents pass, your siblings, like your friends, you lose. 445 00:36:09,608.027 --> 00:36:11,618.027 Those are horrific milestones. 446 00:36:12,368.027 --> 00:36:22,598.027 They seem terrible if you haven't learned how to live life, how to enjoy the beauty of life, and that is what makes a difference in getting at the end of life. 447 00:36:22,838.027 --> 00:36:27,128.027 And I don't know if you ever heard of Ericsson's model, like it's integrity versus despair. 448 00:36:27,968.027 --> 00:36:37,118.027 What does ego integrity mean? You are integrated your whole, right? All of these pieces, and you know how to navigate through grief. 449 00:36:37,538.027 --> 00:36:39,938.027 You trust yourself in getting through betrayal. 450 00:36:40,608.027 --> 00:36:44,478.027 You don't lose yourself in the process because nobody can give you a manual for your life. 451 00:36:44,478.027 --> 00:36:52,68.027 We don't know what it's gonna bring, right? But what you can know is who you are and if you can redirect yourself to that. 452 00:36:52,623.027 --> 00:36:54,33.027 Then there's nothing you can't get through. 453 00:36:55,33.027 --> 00:36:55,993.027 You trust yourself. 454 00:36:56,618.027 --> 00:36:59,778.027 That's a very meaningful statement that you just made. 455 00:36:59,778.027 --> 00:37:07,118.027 And I hope a lot of people are listening to it because I really think that, it would behoove other therapists to practice this. 456 00:37:07,118.027 --> 00:37:13,948.027 So are you involved in training therapists outside of your organization? For CMI. 457 00:37:14,803.027 --> 00:37:15,433.027 Yes. 458 00:37:15,463.027 --> 00:37:15,703.027 Yeah. 459 00:37:15,703.027 --> 00:37:20,203.027 In fact, we just launched the training last year, what? 2024? January, 2024. 460 00:37:20,203.027 --> 00:37:24,463.027 So we've done some trainings, we did some in Spain, which was awesome. 461 00:37:24,613.027 --> 00:37:32,243.027 Here in a few states and I just, we have, there's two of us right now that are doing the training, me and Brian, but we just added two more trainers. 462 00:37:32,273.027 --> 00:37:35,963.027 They were one that learned it and mastered it and are now doing some training. 463 00:37:35,963.027 --> 00:37:38,153.027 So it's awesome to get. 464 00:37:38,813.027 --> 00:37:40,763.027 To see it be replicated. 465 00:37:41,163.027 --> 00:37:52,63.027 I think the hardest piece is that we talk about all the amazing things and we see the amazing things it's doing, but we don't have a lot of practitioners because not a lot of people know about this. 466 00:37:52,63.027 --> 00:37:55,193.027 That there's this way of doing it and because it sounds so similar. 467 00:37:55,553.027 --> 00:38:01,13.027 To other modalities because it is integrative, it's integrated and it's integrative. 468 00:38:01,143.027 --> 00:38:03,693.027 Too many people think, I think you're doing this. 469 00:38:03,753.027 --> 00:38:06,33.027 It's you can, but it's not just that. 470 00:38:06,33.027 --> 00:38:08,783.027 It's not just the banana or the apple or the strawberry. 471 00:38:08,783.027 --> 00:38:09,713.027 It's a fruit salad. 472 00:38:10,23.027 --> 00:38:11,343.027 It's knowing the whole thing. 473 00:38:11,393.027 --> 00:38:18,923.027 How to recognize these different types of memories and how to know the path to help the individual integrate it, whether it be pre-verbal, whether it be. 474 00:38:19,703.027 --> 00:38:25,853.027 I had an individual that had already addressed her sense of feeling always rejected, unwanted. 475 00:38:26,423.027 --> 00:38:27,533.027 And she done it with other modalities. 476 00:38:27,533.027 --> 00:38:30,53.027 When we did CMI, she went to being teeny tiny. 477 00:38:31,13.027 --> 00:38:37,253.027 And it wasn't until after she said she was conceived from rape and I thought, oh, my mind was blown. 478 00:38:37,643.027 --> 00:38:42,353.027 Because your body experiences things in the womb before you even know there's a name for them. 479 00:38:42,893.027 --> 00:38:56,883.027 But your body remembers what the experience was like, and I imagine probably whatever chemical process was happening for the mother throughout that pregnancy was experienced by that baby before she even exited the womb. 480 00:38:57,333.027 --> 00:38:58,623.027 Of course, powerful. 481 00:38:59,133.027 --> 00:38:59,768.027 It was powerful. 482 00:39:00,903.027 --> 00:39:01,263.027 Yeah. 483 00:39:01,803.027 --> 00:39:18,503.027 There's so many things that affect the womb even be before preconception, right? You need the sperm and the egg and whatever those two things have gone through, right? And when they combine and make a baby you are bringing those all together. 484 00:39:18,508.027 --> 00:39:32,438.027 It's funny, I was listening to a radio lab episode and it was an old one from 2012 where they were talking about, japan when they got bombed and there was this one guy who got, actually was exposed to two different bombings. 485 00:39:32,858.027 --> 00:39:35,438.027 The impact that it had on his children. 486 00:39:36,8.027 --> 00:39:36,668.027 Yes. 487 00:39:37,233.027 --> 00:39:41,33.027 So all these things definitely manifest epigenetics in us. 488 00:39:42,563.027 --> 00:39:47,933.027 Epigenetics, epigenetics on how these traits are handed down through generations is how we survive. 489 00:39:48,263.027 --> 00:39:48,593.027 Yep. 490 00:39:48,998.027 --> 00:39:49,328.027 Yep. 491 00:39:49,748.027 --> 00:39:55,558.027 These are not things that, we necessarily focus on in the everyday western medicine. 492 00:39:55,858.027 --> 00:40:05,858.027 I think it's being talked about more on platforms like this and other platforms where I like to learn about that stuff and listen to those kind of things. 493 00:40:06,188.027 --> 00:40:13,718.027 But in the everyday practice of me seeing patients, I'm not necessarily talking about their epigenetics, but it. 494 00:40:13,788.027 --> 00:40:15,708.027 Absolutely affects people. 495 00:40:16,338.027 --> 00:40:22,858.027 So if I had someone here and they said, ESEF I've gone through therapy. 496 00:40:23,48.027 --> 00:40:25,848.027 I've done all the therapy and I'm still stuck. 497 00:40:26,88.027 --> 00:40:29,88.027 I get into the same fights, I pick the same people. 498 00:40:29,328.027 --> 00:40:30,858.027 I'm in the same rut. 499 00:40:31,638.027 --> 00:40:38,718.027 What would you say to them? I would say maybe it's start time to stop looking for answers outside of yourself and start looking within I. 500 00:40:40,413.027 --> 00:40:54,523.027 Nobody's gone through the experiences that you've gone through, But if you say, where's a map home? Other people can give you their map home, but that's not gonna get you to your home, right? So this approach, I tell people like, you'll, I am not the expert. 501 00:40:54,523.027 --> 00:40:55,453.027 You're the expert. 502 00:40:55,813.027 --> 00:40:59,713.027 All I'm teaching you is how to tap into that, how to listen to your body. 503 00:41:00,313.027 --> 00:41:05,373.027 And sometimes it's scary if you're used to dipping out or again, conventional approaches. 504 00:41:05,373.027 --> 00:41:10,923.027 Sometimes we teach coping, we teach management, and all we're doing is trying to outcompete these signals that are coming up. 505 00:41:10,953.027 --> 00:41:12,993.027 That are begging for our attention to be integrated. 506 00:41:13,323.027 --> 00:41:15,393.027 And I teach people to move towards them. 507 00:41:15,853.027 --> 00:41:23,863.027 It depends on the individual, the capacities, the support, all these factors that I can take into account to help say, Hey, this is why we need to start here. 508 00:41:24,223.027 --> 00:41:27,313.027 But generally it's very driven by the client. 509 00:41:27,793.027 --> 00:41:29,748.027 So if they come, that means they're still seeking. 510 00:41:30,433.027 --> 00:41:31,423.027 That means there's still hope. 511 00:41:31,453.027 --> 00:41:37,93.027 There's something inside of them that knows the truth, that this is something they can overcome. 512 00:41:37,783.027 --> 00:41:41,443.027 Trust that there's a reason why you came there. 513 00:41:41,443.027 --> 00:41:45,153.027 That little voice that is telling you, keep looking, keep going. 514 00:41:45,843.027 --> 00:41:46,863.027 That is your core. 515 00:41:47,13.027 --> 00:41:48,93.027 That is your core self. 516 00:41:48,93.027 --> 00:41:49,743.027 You need to learn how to communicate with that. 517 00:41:50,743.027 --> 00:42:04,663.027 So if my listeners wanted to read about you, to learn about your program, even to, receive training from you, if hopefully there's some therapists that are listening, how would they find you? I hope so too. 518 00:42:04,663.027 --> 00:42:11,83.027 And for any professionals out there, we do a free webinar the first Wednesday of every month and we'd love to have you on. 519 00:42:11,83.027 --> 00:42:14,743.027 We also could do one just for your organization where we talk about this approach. 520 00:42:14,993.027 --> 00:42:20,423.027 But the best way to reach us and learn more is to go to our website, arise alliance.org. 521 00:42:22,923.027 --> 00:42:30,613.027 Other than, asking people if this is something that resonates, especially for providers, we've trained psychiatrists as well. 522 00:42:30,763.027 --> 00:42:32,563.027 Anyone who works with people, I. 523 00:42:33,628.027 --> 00:42:35,38.027 Please feel free to reach out. 524 00:42:35,138.027 --> 00:42:36,578.027 This is a whole movement. 525 00:42:36,668.027 --> 00:42:41,738.027 We're trying to transform how we view the human experience instead of pathologizing. 526 00:42:41,918.027 --> 00:42:43,838.027 It's time that we reclaim our power back. 527 00:42:43,838.027 --> 00:42:48,158.027 It's time that we really connect to our true intelligence. 528 00:42:48,158.027 --> 00:42:50,188.027 We're talking about AI earlier, that's. 529 00:42:51,773.027 --> 00:42:52,673.027 that deeper knowing. 530 00:42:52,703.027 --> 00:42:53,783.027 It's that instinct. 531 00:42:54,83.027 --> 00:42:56,153.027 And if we don't learn how to connect there. 532 00:42:57,3.027 --> 00:42:58,173.027 That's the humanity. 533 00:42:58,293.027 --> 00:43:00,983.027 That's what differentiates us and it is powerful. 534 00:43:00,983.027 --> 00:43:02,723.027 That is where the key to healing is. 535 00:43:03,53.027 --> 00:43:08,283.027 So I really encourage people to be curious and if it's something that resonates, is to reach out and connect. 536 00:43:08,853.027 --> 00:43:11,613.027 I love to learn from others as well, connect with others. 537 00:43:12,123.027 --> 00:43:16,923.027 So just our goal is to help people truly step into. 538 00:43:17,658.027 --> 00:43:32,928.027 Have you thought of doing some work with HR groups and stuff? Because the, they see it all right? The disruptive employee, the one that loses the temper, the one that says thing, inappropriate things who, whatever. 539 00:43:32,928.027 --> 00:43:39,488.027 Have you thought about working and doing work that way with hr? That was my whole piece with the City of Chandler. 540 00:43:39,488.027 --> 00:43:41,948.027 So I created, I developed the Compass within it. 541 00:43:41,948.027 --> 00:43:43,58.027 It's a two part workshop. 542 00:43:43,298.027 --> 00:43:44,408.027 Specifically for. 543 00:43:45,118.027 --> 00:43:51,208.027 I wanted to reach out to those individuals that would never even consider therapy either because of cultural barriers. 544 00:43:51,328.027 --> 00:43:57,28.027 Or they find themselves in just stuck in and they could use some guidance. 545 00:43:57,78.027 --> 00:44:00,808.027 So even with performance performance coaches, because. 546 00:44:01,388.027 --> 00:44:05,978.027 A lot of the way we process information can really impact our performance. 547 00:44:05,978.027 --> 00:44:11,438.027 If we're using some of that energy to suppress memories, it impacts our health, it impacts our performance. 548 00:44:11,528.027 --> 00:44:11,648.027 Yeah. 549 00:44:11,678.027 --> 00:44:18,488.027 Those are like the side effects that I've seen that someone's working on this trauma and they're like, oh my gosh, my basketball game is like on point. 550 00:44:18,488.027 --> 00:44:25,418.027 What happened? Is this connected? Yeah, it is because if your mind is halfway there and halfway here, you're only gonna have. 551 00:44:26,558.027 --> 00:44:31,298.027 Perform, but if more of you is present, of course you're gonna be better. 552 00:44:31,568.027 --> 00:44:40,448.027 I also developed a program for a trauma-informed school that we're building with an organization that I volunteer with that specifically works with foster kids. 553 00:44:40,658.027 --> 00:44:44,558.027 So I supervise some of their interns and it's called Beyond behaviors. 554 00:44:44,838.027 --> 00:44:47,28.027 These are kids that have a lot of attachment issues. 555 00:44:47,28.027 --> 00:44:50,238.027 And so being effective with them requires a certain mindset. 556 00:44:50,578.027 --> 00:44:55,118.027 And then recently was invited to work with the police department their behavioral health unit. 557 00:44:55,118.027 --> 00:44:58,748.027 So yeah, we're absolutely expanding and we're teaching some of these concepts. 558 00:44:59,268.027 --> 00:45:13,548.027 There's so many avenues to connect to the community, to connect to other humans, and I think that we have to hit every angle, every industry to make a difference in our communities, to make a difference in the world, to open up people's eyes and empower them. 559 00:45:14,418.027 --> 00:45:17,898.027 Yeah, I think the way the world is right now, I think we all need a bit of it. 560 00:45:19,33.027 --> 00:45:23,263.027 And what do you do when it's crazy like this? You have to anchor yourself in who you are. 561 00:45:23,313.027 --> 00:45:28,558.027 And if someone asks you who you are and you're pulling out your career you know your sexual identity. 562 00:45:28,588.027 --> 00:45:29,8.027 No. 563 00:45:29,8.027 --> 00:45:29,908.027 Go deeper. 564 00:45:30,178.027 --> 00:45:31,138.027 Yeah, you are. 565 00:45:31,528.027 --> 00:45:32,788.027 That's what integrity is. 566 00:45:32,788.027 --> 00:45:41,128.027 It's what allowed people, even during the Holocaust, the ones who hid people, Jews in their basement, It definitely wasn't safe to make that choice. 567 00:45:41,648.027 --> 00:45:45,608.027 You risk your life, you risk your kids, you risk your wellbeing, everything. 568 00:45:46,118.027 --> 00:45:47,978.027 And he said, I didn't have a choice. 569 00:45:48,553.027 --> 00:45:52,223.027 He wasn't talking about this meat suit, or nervous system. 570 00:45:52,223.027 --> 00:45:54,353.027 It was, he's so grounded in who he is. 571 00:45:54,353.027 --> 00:45:55,343.027 His integrity. 572 00:45:55,563.027 --> 00:45:58,563.027 His self could not allow that self betrayal. 573 00:45:59,103.027 --> 00:46:00,693.027 And we see how those things turned out. 574 00:46:01,23.027 --> 00:46:04,83.027 So when life gets rough, we can't. 575 00:46:05,388.027 --> 00:46:15,888.027 Control the things outside of us, but if we can connect to what's inside of us and be intentional, we could be way more effective in influencing what's happening outside of us. 576 00:46:16,338.027 --> 00:46:21,438.027 And that's the message I'm trying to relay is this is how you do it. 577 00:46:21,708.027 --> 00:46:31,88.027 Here's the tools to get there You know how to step in, you know how to be effective and you don't, nervous system doesn't overcome you or derail you. 578 00:46:31,428.027 --> 00:46:33,648.027 this is absolutely, this was delightful. 579 00:46:33,648.027 --> 00:46:37,68.027 Honestly, I had such a great time talking with you and learning from you you too. 580 00:46:37,353.027 --> 00:46:37,653.027 Yeah. 581 00:46:37,653.027 --> 00:46:42,63.027 So thanks so much for joining me it was great connecting with you, Thank you so much. 582 00:46:42,223.027 --> 00:46:46,323.027 And don't forget to like, share and review my podcast. 583 00:46:46,873.027 --> 00:46:50,663.027 Remember, it's always ladies first on Soma Says. 584 00:46:50,963.027 --> 00:46:54,623.027 Let's make a difference one conversation at a time.