December 14, 2024 • 42 mins
In this episode of 'Soma Says,' Dr. Soma welcomes Morgan Taylor, Chief Nursing Officer at Archer Review, to discuss the current challenges and innovations in nursing education. Morgan shares her journey from pediatric nursing at Duke University Hospital to her global health outreach and her efforts in enhancing nursing practices through education and technology. The conversation delves into the alarming rate at which nurses are leaving the profession, the impact of COVID on nursing education, and the importance of mentorship. Morgan also discusses her projects aimed at making nursing education more accessible and effective, highlighting the balance between tech advancements and hands-on training. The episode underscores the critical need for well-educated, empathetic nurses and explores strategies to fortify the future of healthcare.
00:00 Introduction and Disclaimer
00:45 Meet Morgan Taylor: Chief Nursing Officer
01:43 Challenges in Nursing: High Turnover Rates
03:05 Morgan's Journey in Nursing Education
06:21 Impact of COVID on Nursing
11:38 Innovations in Nursing Education
21:24 Future of Nursing Education
34:28 Peer Learning and Collaboration
39:31 Conclusion and Contact Information
To learn more about Morgan Taylor, visit https://www.linkedin.com/in/morgan-clark-taylor
You can also find more information about her at https://nurses.archerreview.com/private-tutors/Morgan
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hi, this is Dr.
Soma.
Just a disclaimer, this podcast is for informational purposes only and isn't intended as medical advice.
Always consult with your doctor before making any changes to your diet, exercise, or health regimen.
Let's go to the show.
(00:43):
Welcome back to Soma Says.
I'm delighted to introduce our guest, Morgan Taylor.
Morgan is the Chief Nursing Officer at Archer Review, where she trains the next generation of nurses.
With a rich background as a registered traveling nurse, Morgan has delivered specialized pediatric care in top tier hospitals.
At Duke University Hospital, she spearheaded a new graduate nurse residency program.
(01:08):
Morgan's dedication extends globally through her work as a health care outreach coordinator with Cure America Global, organizing missions to enhance health care in underserved regions.
Currently pursuing a doctorate of nursing practice in pediatric nurse practitioner at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, Morgan is an alum of the University of North Carolina, Wilmington.
(01:31):
Join us as we explore Morgan's work Morgan's impactful journey in nursing and healthcare innovation. 14 00:01:43,752.687 --> 00:01:52,52.686 I just read an article Ballard Health just put out, 50 percent of nurses are leaving within their first two years. 15 00:01:52,352.686 --> 00:01:57,97.686 And I'm like that's less time than you spent learning how to be a nurse. 16 00:01:59,423.831 --> 00:02:02,483.831 I don't care who you are at some point in your life. 17 00:02:02,723.831 --> 00:02:18,823.83 You are going to have contact with a nurse, whether that's you directly as the patient, whether that's as a caregiver for a family member, you will have contact with a nurse and you want that nurse to be well educated, compassionate, competent, empathetic. 18 00:02:20,959.976 --> 00:02:30,849.976 the number one thing that I feel contributes to it, at least on a personal level, is just the nurses eat their young mentality. 19 00:02:31,44.976 --> 00:02:39,884.976 This has been a saying for far too long in our profession, with how we interact with and treat with these new novice nurses. 20 00:02:39,924.975 --> 00:02:54,551.12 And, oh my goodness, who wants to stay in an environment where they're being eaten? So what drew me to you was obviously your background in nursing. 21 00:02:55,21.12 --> 00:02:59,81.12 And ultimately you and I both take care of patients. 22 00:02:59,441.12 --> 00:03:05,241.1195 That's our goal is to have them be the healthiest and happiest that they can be. 23 00:03:05,781.1195 --> 00:03:19,871.1195 So can you start by telling us about your background and what led you to focus on nursing education and technology? Because not everybody has an interest there. 24 00:03:20,266.1195 --> 00:03:26,296.1195 What drew you to that? So I definitely have a bit of a windy path. 25 00:03:26,516.1195 --> 00:03:31,86.1195 It was this, where I am at now isn't what I ever planned for. 26 00:03:31,86.2195 --> 00:03:35,976.1195 I certainly went into nursing planning to be at the bedside for my entire career. 27 00:03:35,976.2195 --> 00:03:42,206.2195 I grew up as a nurse at Duke working in the intensive care unit, the emergency department. 28 00:03:42,546.2195 --> 00:03:43,896.2195 All in pediatrics. 29 00:03:43,896.2195 --> 00:03:45,486.2195 I'm a PEDS nurse at heart. 30 00:03:45,496.2195 --> 00:03:47,606.2195 You can't get me to take care of adults. 31 00:03:47,976.2195 --> 00:03:51,546.2195 I I later went on to become a pediatric nurse practitioner. 32 00:03:51,926.2195 --> 00:04:13,441.2195 But really where my story got interesting was during the pandemic, I was placed in the emergency room for most of the time that I was working on that time period, and I saw a really big shift in how prepared new nurses were when they came to join our workforce. 33 00:04:14,156.2195 --> 00:04:16,186.2195 And it makes sense when we think back on it. 34 00:04:16,196.2195 --> 00:04:25,146.2195 We had very few resources, they weren't getting very much clinical hours with that hands on experience that we know is so vital. 35 00:04:25,956.2195 --> 00:04:32,826.2195 But then doubly, they were coming into a very high intensity, high acuity environment. 36 00:04:33,526.2195 --> 00:04:40,246.2195 And not having a robust support system to really get them up to speed. 37 00:04:40,576.2195 --> 00:04:49,16.2195 There was just such a lack of mentorship and support that, as we see now, they're leaving the bedside really fast. 38 00:04:49,76.2205 --> 00:04:52,586.2205 And so all of that, that really didn't sit right with me. 39 00:04:52,586.2205 --> 00:04:55,506.2195 I knew there had to be a way we could be doing things better. 40 00:04:55,816.2205 --> 00:05:01,976.2205 We had to be more innovative with how we were educating this next generation. 41 00:05:02,596.2195 --> 00:05:12,891.2205 So for a while there, I Kept, kept working at the bedside and began looking into some opportunities on the side for how I could dip my toes into education. 42 00:05:12,891.2205 --> 00:05:31,611.2205 What else was out there? What's currently being done and how could we maybe start to think differently about that? And really where the tech savvy comes in is trying to solve for some of these major issues and needing technology to do needing to innovate with. 43 00:05:32,296.2205 --> 00:05:50,916.2195 How are we going to educate more nurses to maybe one day be out of a nursing crisis? How are we going to grow this pipeline of future, future healthcare professionals? And I'm no tech whiz, but I've learned a lot as we've tried to think about different ways to approach these problems. 44 00:05:51,246.2195 --> 00:06:04,821.2205 And it's all just stemmed from that love for educating first my patients and clients and then my students and how we can really make sure that next generation of nurses is here to stay. 45 00:06:05,821.2195 --> 00:06:09,891.2195 You touched on something that I can relate with. 46 00:06:10,291.2215 --> 00:06:12,541.2205 You mentioned a nursing shortage. 47 00:06:13,126.2205 --> 00:06:20,616.2205 And that nurses are leaving in the time span that they, educated and train themselves. 48 00:06:21,526.2195 --> 00:06:33,266.2205 Do you think that has anything to do with COVID? Or do you think it's the state of nursing or medicine as we speak? Because I'm a primary care physician. 49 00:06:33,526.2205 --> 00:06:40,986.2205 I have a special interest in women's health, but there is a severe, and we've been predicting and telling people this. 50 00:06:41,246.2205 --> 00:06:48,436.2205 All many years, even before COVID hit that there's a serious shortage of PCPs out there. 51 00:06:48,436.3205 --> 00:07:00,346.2195 And I know exactly what's been going on that has led to this, but what has been going on in nursing because it impacts me, it impacts my patients. 52 00:07:00,896.2205 --> 00:07:03,736.2205 What, what's going on? Absolutely. 53 00:07:03,736.2205 --> 00:07:05,306.2205 It impacts all of us. 54 00:07:05,306.2205 --> 00:07:08,366.2205 I don't care who you are at some point in your life. 55 00:07:08,606.2205 --> 00:07:24,706.2195 You are going to have contact with a nurse, whether that's you directly as the patient, whether that's as a caregiver for a family member, you will have contact with a nurse and you want that nurse to be well educated, compassionate, competent, empathetic. 56 00:07:25,46.2205 --> 00:07:26,706.2205 all of these great things. 57 00:07:26,706.2205 --> 00:07:39,366.2205 But if we're not putting the structures in place to get them there, and then when they do go into the workforce, they're leaving that quickly, we are all going to end up in a very bad place. 58 00:07:39,366.2205 --> 00:07:41,296.2205 And we're really starting to see that. 59 00:07:41,886.2205 --> 00:07:55,61.2205 So to back it up, do I think COVID helped the situation? No, I absolutely think that had a key triggering effect on some of our educational systems. 60 00:07:55,521.2205 --> 00:08:01,801.2195 Namely just less resources and less hands on resources to work with our students. 61 00:08:01,801.2205 --> 00:08:06,791.1205 And we're starting to see some of that get walked back, but not all of it. 62 00:08:06,791.2205 --> 00:08:11,296.2205 A great example here is that for nursing faculty. 63 00:08:11,596.2205 --> 00:08:20,976.2205 We are getting less and less people going into academia and actually being willing at an institutional level to educate these nurses. 64 00:08:21,266.2195 --> 00:08:33,36.2205 And how do you grow a profession without faculty there to teach them? There's obviously going to be a need for us to do things a little bit differently. 65 00:08:33,711.2205 --> 00:08:42,481.2205 That being said, many of the reasons that I see contributing to this existed long before COVID. 66 00:08:42,881.2205 --> 00:08:55,981.2205 The staffing ratios, the burnout, and the number one thing that I feel contributes to it, at least on a personal level, is just the nurses eat their young mentality. 67 00:08:56,176.2205 --> 00:09:05,16.2205 This has been a saying for far too long in our profession, with how we interact with and treat with these new novice nurses. 68 00:09:05,56.2195 --> 00:09:16,856.2215 And, oh my goodness, who wants to stay in an environment where they're being eaten? It's just not conducive to happy, thriving careers. 69 00:09:17,246.2215 --> 00:09:19,656.2205 And that has been going on for a very long time. 70 00:09:19,656.2205 --> 00:09:23,176.2205 It's just, certainly predates COVID and people are done with it. 71 00:09:23,236.2205 --> 00:09:25,686.2205 People are fed up and they're getting out of there. 72 00:09:25,726.2205 --> 00:09:31,396.2195 And if we don't really change how that looks from the get go, they're not going to stick around. 73 00:09:32,446.2205 --> 00:09:36,376.2205 I think we've seen that in medical school. 74 00:09:36,766.2205 --> 00:09:45,776.2195 I think it is somewhat transforming in medicine, although I haven't been in residency for many decades. 75 00:09:46,196.2195 --> 00:09:48,776.2185 So I can't truly attest to it. 76 00:09:48,786.2195 --> 00:09:48,846.2195 Thank you. 77 00:09:49,286.2205 --> 00:10:04,76.2195 But there's a mentality that, you know, at that time that it was a, an apprenticeship and where I trained and I'm not going to say it because God forbid, nursing leadership, Dr. 78 00:10:04,76.2205 --> 00:10:13,446.3205 Metzl, why did you talk about us? I do remember when I was at I'll just say it at NYU, some of the nurses and how afraid they were. 79 00:10:13,866.3205 --> 00:10:17,366.3205 Of nursing leadership and their managers. 80 00:10:17,386.3205 --> 00:10:23,816.3205 And it was very similar to what we went through as young residents and being afraid of certain attendings. 81 00:10:24,596.3195 --> 00:10:26,966.3205 I don't see how learning. 82 00:10:27,561.3205 --> 00:10:36,651.3205 Is the most fruitful in those circumstances, because if you're afraid in general, then you're going to be afraid to ask questions. 83 00:10:36,961.3205 --> 00:10:39,811.3205 You're going to be afraid when you do make a mistake. 84 00:10:39,861.3195 --> 00:10:46,1.3185 And as we both know medicine, nursing, what have you, there, there's no such thing as perfection. 85 00:10:46,331.3185 --> 00:10:46,991.3185 Oh, yeah. 86 00:10:47,421.3185 --> 00:11:01,801.3195 But it's, we're all human beings at the end of the day, but If you're in this fearful environment, then yes I can see how that can lead to, a diminished population of nurses. 87 00:11:02,391.3195 --> 00:11:15,851.3185 And people might be wondering, why am I talking about this right now? Because as I mentioned, it's impacting us, not just me as a doctor, but it's impacting my patients where they feel frustrated. 88 00:11:16,191.3195 --> 00:11:21,711.3195 So patients are wondering why, their questions are not being answered when they call the office. 89 00:11:22,221.3195 --> 00:11:23,591.3195 Because it's all tied. 90 00:11:23,621.3195 --> 00:11:25,261.3195 We don't work separately. 91 00:11:25,301.3195 --> 00:11:28,501.3195 Doctors and nurses work very close together. 92 00:11:28,521.3195 --> 00:11:34,621.318 And if I didn't have good nurses helping me then I would just be totally overwhelmed. 93 00:11:35,71.318 --> 00:11:42,761.319 So here's where you step in, right? How with the, the nursing education, the challenges. 94 00:11:43,116.318 --> 00:11:44,656.318 that, you have mentioned. 95 00:11:45,216.318 --> 00:11:55,106.318 How do you step in, in transforming that and educating nurses that we do have with tools and tech. 96 00:11:55,586.318 --> 00:12:03,436.318 What do you do to help? Yeah, I see really three key buckets that need to be addressed. 97 00:12:03,676.318 --> 00:12:15,831.317 And, I speak to nursing education because that's the world I live in, but I do believe this applies more broadly to healthcare education, to our residents, to our allied health peers. 98 00:12:15,851.317 --> 00:12:29,731.3165 There's so many people that are part of this interdisciplinary team, and it doesn't work unless we are all there and collaborating, especially when we have more complex and critically ill patients. 99 00:12:29,731.3165 --> 00:12:33,111.317 We just all have to bring our knowledge to the table. 100 00:12:33,691.317 --> 00:12:45,851.317 So the three big areas that I see us being able to actually affect some change is first growing the pipeline of future healthcare professionals. 101 00:12:46,161.317 --> 00:12:58,346.317 So for me, that means helping really early on, not just introduce them to the career, but provide them with actionable resources that can help them get there. 102 00:12:58,646.317 --> 00:13:04,746.317 That might be taking your entrance exam for nursing school or the MCAT if you're going to medical school. 103 00:13:05,276.317 --> 00:13:06,866.317 That takes resources. 104 00:13:06,876.317 --> 00:13:09,56.317 That's very challenging. 105 00:13:09,56.317 --> 00:13:25,286.316 So let's guide students to that and provide, from day one, compassionate, empathetic material that instills in them that they have a guide, a mentor, a cheerleader that's going to get them there. 106 00:13:25,506.316 --> 00:13:29,406.317 I really do think that starts before they're even in their program. 107 00:13:30,691.317 --> 00:13:41,671.317 The second big bucket that I see after really growing that pipeline of future professionals is making sure that once they're in that pipeline, they stay there. 108 00:13:41,681.317 --> 00:13:44,661.317 So for me, that's reducing dropout rates. 109 00:13:44,871.317 --> 00:13:55,631.316 We see a huge cliff that first year of nursing school, and I would not be surprised if other healthcare professions like medicine and our allied health professionals have seen that. 110 00:13:55,651.317 --> 00:13:57,251.317 similar experiences. 111 00:13:57,551.317 --> 00:13:59,321.317 It is very challenging. 112 00:13:59,351.317 --> 00:14:01,791.317 And honestly, it should be challenging. 113 00:14:01,791.317 --> 00:14:09,281.317 I have no problem with that, but we need to support the students through it every step of the way again. 114 00:14:09,381.317 --> 00:14:12,341.317 So they have mentorship and support. 115 00:14:13,241.316 --> 00:14:17,36.317 The third bucket is Hey, you've graduated. 116 00:14:17,46.317 --> 00:14:18,316.317 You're now a resident. 117 00:14:18,316.317 --> 00:14:21,516.317 You're now a new nurse or speech therapist. 118 00:14:21,846.317 --> 00:14:30,746.317 How do we support you to keep you in the profession? So that's career advancement and growth through continuing education. 119 00:14:31,391.317 --> 00:14:39,61.317 That's for nurses potentially advancing your career with a doctorate degree, becoming an advanced practice provider. 120 00:14:39,381.317 --> 00:14:47,911.316 There are many different pathways out there, but A, students don't know about them, or B, they don't feel supported to follow them. 121 00:14:48,581.316 --> 00:15:03,791.317 So I seek to really create a continuous learning platform from day one, throughout your professional career, that supports, guides, and keeps you moving on to the next step with confidence. 122 00:15:04,181.317 --> 00:15:18,491.316 There has to be some innovation in how we deliver that material, but when you boil it down and really get to the soup and nuts, that, that's my core belief at how we can affect change for our future healthcare professionals. 123 00:15:20,11.317 --> 00:15:40,501.318 And similarly what, it's recruiting for the Marines or the Army, right? Sometimes they go into environments where you may have to go to places where, they need more direction, right? And so in medicine and the way that looks is that over the years. 124 00:15:41,791.318 --> 00:15:59,331.318 students and residents who go into primary care, they may get their loans paid off, right? By the government or, that they're making, it more accessible for students who don't have the means or the resources to go to medical school. 125 00:15:59,631.318 --> 00:16:03,521.317 So how does nursing, the nursing profession. 126 00:16:03,876.318 --> 00:16:08,876.318 Recruit those kind of people so that people who don't have access to that. 127 00:16:08,876.318 --> 00:16:35,516.319 How do you do that? Yeah, though you touched on two of our big value words where I work which is accessible and affordable that's honestly part of what we feel is our key driver Because unless this education is accessible at an affordable price, then we are going to miss out on really valuable future health care providers. 128 00:16:36,26.319 --> 00:16:45,16.32 So something that really sticks out to me at Archer Review, a big proportion of our students are international. 129 00:16:45,296.319 --> 00:16:57,801.319 So the Philippines we have many students in Africa, Ghana, Kenya, And they are seeking to take their national licensure exam and immigrate to the United States. 130 00:16:58,341.319 --> 00:17:05,331.3185 Let me tell you, the barriers facing those students are nearly insurmountable sometimes. 131 00:17:05,331.3185 --> 00:17:09,301.319 They need to travel 12 hours to get to a testing center. 132 00:17:09,781.319 --> 00:17:15,361.319 Just really trouble with internet connection to even access the material. 133 00:17:15,711.319 --> 00:17:20,671.318 And of course the cost barrier, the cost for entry looks very different. 134 00:17:21,101.319 --> 00:17:23,21.319 than someone who maybe lives in New York. 135 00:17:23,791.319 --> 00:17:38,831.319 So really, that is not an area I knew a lot about until I started working with these students and realized that accessibility and affordability are shaping who is even able to enter this profession. 136 00:17:39,311.318 --> 00:17:43,261.318 So we do a couple of things to at least help with this. 137 00:17:43,261.418 --> 00:17:48,101.319 I'm not going to pretend like it solves the problem, but offering scholarships. 138 00:17:48,556.319 --> 00:17:56,316.319 doing reach out to certain areas like that to try and provide those resources at low or no cost. 139 00:17:56,556.319 --> 00:17:59,846.318 I do know we have similar programs with loan forgiveness. 140 00:17:59,846.319 --> 00:18:09,456.3195 I think that's a great point you touched on because many of these students will take out quite hefty loans and that's a big thing to think about in your longterm. 141 00:18:09,956.3195 --> 00:18:11,306.3195 It can be very daunting. 142 00:18:11,336.3195 --> 00:18:11,936.3195 I went absolutely. 143 00:18:11,936.3195 --> 00:18:17,66.3195 You, I was a, I'm a dinosaur, so a comparative dinosaur. 144 00:18:17,66.3195 --> 00:18:24,746.3195 So you know, what I came out with, I think is a mere fraction of what medical students come out with when they're done with medical school. 145 00:18:24,956.3195 --> 00:18:30,121.3195 I was also to just be going up and up faster and faster, doesn't it? It's crazy. 146 00:18:30,121.3195 --> 00:18:40,951.3195 I think my four years of medical school is equivalent to probably a year and a half tuition for college, certain colleges. 147 00:18:41,41.3195 --> 00:18:42,111.3195 Oh my goodness. 148 00:18:42,311.3185 --> 00:18:44,681.3195 That's how much things have changed. 149 00:18:45,411.3185 --> 00:18:51,461.3195 And I, yeah, and I went into medical school thinking, whatever figure because med school was on me. 150 00:18:51,461.3195 --> 00:18:52,271.3195 I paid for it. 151 00:18:52,321.3195 --> 00:18:54,1.3195 I figured out how to, pay for it. 152 00:18:54,511.3195 --> 00:19:08,181.3185 But I, while I was there I was like, it seemed like an astronomical amount to me But, these days it, it would be nothing, honestly, so I consider myself lucky. 153 00:19:08,771.3185 --> 00:19:25,331.3185 So you were mentioning some of the challenges and, at Archer, how do you make up for the education challenges for your, for the nursing students? Yeah, this is something that has been a big act of learning as we go. 154 00:19:25,361.3185 --> 00:19:35,661.3185 We set out with a vision to really make this education accessible and affordable, but we didn't have a perfect roadmap for exactly how that was going to look. 155 00:19:36,1.3185 --> 00:19:45,941.3185 And our key principle is that we keep our ear to the ground, listen to user feedback, and rapidly adapt according to what they're looking for. 156 00:19:46,336.3185 --> 00:19:50,846.3185 So for example, I tend to talk a little bit fast when I get excited. 157 00:19:50,846.3185 --> 00:19:56,16.3175 I'll be really passionate about like congenital heart defects and I'm going a mile a minute. 158 00:19:56,26.3185 --> 00:19:58,496.3185 They're like that's not going to work for us. 159 00:19:59,66.3185 --> 00:20:00,731.2185 So we built in very simple. 160 00:20:00,731.3185 --> 00:20:17,171.3185 Simple features of closed captioning and adjusting the speed for lectures and many of our students will slow certain parts down, as well as follow along with a transcript that transcript can also be auto translated into any language of their choice. 161 00:20:17,216.3185 --> 00:20:21,36.3185 So that they can read along with that lecture in their native language. 162 00:20:21,386.3185 --> 00:20:23,306.3185 And, all of those are small things. 163 00:20:23,306.3185 --> 00:20:31,436.3185 That's not the tech revolution of the century, but it goes a very long way in starting to break those barriers down. 164 00:20:31,996.3185 --> 00:20:39,76.3185 The other thing we did that we really worked quite hard on was building a very diverse tutoring staff. 165 00:20:39,476.3185 --> 00:20:52,126.3185 Fluent in multiple different languages so that we could all pivot when we had a student that was struggling with this and spoke Spanish or a student from Africa, and we have different time zones covered. 166 00:20:52,446.3185 --> 00:21:01,16.3185 Time zones is a big one that when you're dealing with one on one tutoring, sometimes you don't think about, not everybody lives in my same time zone. 167 00:21:01,346.3185 --> 00:21:12,231.3185 We really had to make sure the students were staff we built was representative of everyone we wanted to serve, and we will continue improving upon that every single day. 168 00:21:12,706.3185 --> 00:21:20,506.3185 But as long as we do it with intention, we listen to what is and isn't working for our students and keep making it better for them. 169 00:21:20,886.3185 --> 00:21:23,166.3185 I do believe that ultimately we'll get there. 170 00:21:24,336.3175 --> 00:21:37,606.3185 How do you see the future of nursing education? Is it going to radically transform? Has COVID changed all of that? Where, it's not the bedside learning anymore. 171 00:21:37,876.3185 --> 00:21:46,116.3185 But more tech oriented, or is it going to be a hybrid thing where, students have a combination of both. 172 00:21:47,21.3185 --> 00:21:48,141.3185 It's interesting. 173 00:21:48,141.3185 --> 00:21:51,361.3185 I think I have seen a little bit of everything. 174 00:21:51,411.3185 --> 00:21:56,911.3185 In my opinion, we're in a phase right now where we're finding the answer to that question. 175 00:21:57,281.3185 --> 00:22:04,741.3175 And what I see happening is that technology is used more to augment than it is to replace. 176 00:22:05,441.3185 --> 00:22:16,591.3185 I don't personally believe there will ever be sufficient nursing education where we don't go into the hospital, go into the clinic, and interact with our patients. 177 00:22:16,781.3185 --> 00:22:21,221.3175 I had someone ask me the other day if they thought telehealth would replace all patient visits. 178 00:22:21,901.3185 --> 00:22:31,411.3185 And I said, there is just no way, if I'm seeing a two year old for a well child check, I need to be in the room to know they're hitting their milestones. 179 00:22:31,671.3175 --> 00:22:38,661.3185 But the next week when they get an ear infection and mom calls me on the telehealth, I can get them some amoxicillin in the middle of the night. 180 00:22:39,81.3185 --> 00:22:43,271.3185 Telehealth, beautiful to augment, but never to replace. 181 00:22:43,301.3185 --> 00:22:45,511.3185 And I think it's the same thing in education. 182 00:22:45,761.3185 --> 00:23:02,261.3185 We've got crazy cool virtual reality simulations that are awesome and provide these low, no risk scenarios for students to be in a code or dealing with a clinical scenario that doesn't come up that frequently. 183 00:23:02,411.3185 --> 00:23:05,611.3185 So they're probably not going to see it in real life. 184 00:23:06,81.3185 --> 00:23:13,861.3185 Those are amazing ways to make our education better and better, but you can't use it as a one to one replacement. 185 00:23:13,901.3185 --> 00:23:21,281.3175 They've still got to go in person, put their hands on patients, and learn how that face to face value really works. 186 00:23:22,51.3185 --> 00:23:33,551.3185 That's refreshing to know because in my own experience, the learning curve really started for me in medical school and residency when we went to the bedside. 187 00:23:33,881.3185 --> 00:23:35,601.3185 It's totally different. 188 00:23:35,761.3185 --> 00:23:39,751.3185 So the learning real, the learning curve really started when. 189 00:23:39,936.3185 --> 00:23:54,306.3175 The learning that happened at the bedside, because when you associate a face with a certain condition, and you're actually treating the patient and they have a name and a history, and they trust you. 190 00:23:54,736.3175 --> 00:24:02,166.3185 There's no textbook or module that can replace that, it's actually a person, a soul that you're helping. 191 00:24:02,666.3185 --> 00:24:05,546.3185 So I think both for nursing and medicine. 192 00:24:06,396.3185 --> 00:24:09,996.3185 And I know even beyond residency when I think so big time. 193 00:24:10,791.3185 --> 00:24:11,141.3185 Yeah. 194 00:24:11,191.3185 --> 00:24:20,421.3175 When I started as a primary care physician way back when, the learning curve was even steeper because I trained in what they call categorical medicine. 195 00:24:20,421.3185 --> 00:24:23,301.3185 So it was very hospital based. 196 00:24:23,561.3175 --> 00:24:26,551.3175 I, I didn't have that primary care exposure. 197 00:24:26,961.3175 --> 00:24:36,576.3175 So it was only after my training where I started learning At an incremental speed, all the different things that I didn't have exposure to. 198 00:24:37,186.3175 --> 00:24:46,506.3165 So what do you do for your students and other educators? Cause not everybody is necessarily going to be. 199 00:24:48,656.3175 --> 00:24:55,736.3175 open arms about technology and all the different ways that you're trying to help nursing students. 200 00:24:55,776.3175 --> 00:25:01,596.3175 There, there's always going to be people who, you know, who don't embrace that. 201 00:25:01,876.3175 --> 00:25:07,526.3175 How do you encourage that? those people to see the light, if you want to call it that. 202 00:25:09,536.3175 --> 00:25:10,356.3175 Absolutely. 203 00:25:10,356.3175 --> 00:25:18,396.3175 I'll be the first to admit when we started seeing everything AI, I was very hesitant to some degree. 204 00:25:18,396.3175 --> 00:25:22,66.3165 There are certain things I am still very hesitant about. 205 00:25:22,556.3165 --> 00:25:37,826.3165 But for me, as long as I start to dip my toes in and really learn what's behind the curtain and really just educate myself about it, my brain starts going a million miles an hour at all the different potential implications it can have. 206 00:25:38,616.3155 --> 00:26:08,111.3165 So the first thing that I say when somebody is really not interested in talking about Any sort of technology in the classroom is I just post the question back to them, you know Do you think what we're doing right now is working? And the vast majority of the time I can get them to admit at least to a degree That we have some struggles And a big focus for us in nursing education right now is what we touched on earlier with the lack of faculty. 207 00:26:08,321.3165 --> 00:26:12,121.3165 They're trying to admit like 200 students a year. 208 00:26:12,431.3165 --> 00:26:15,321.3165 There's limited faculty there to manage. 209 00:26:15,851.3155 --> 00:26:23,291.3165 Doesn't leave a lot of resources for true connection with your students and that mentorship that everyone is craving. 210 00:26:24,591.3155 --> 00:26:45,991.3165 So with that being said, I think there is a little bit of the same fear we just discussed with, is this technology going to come and replace me? And I, I try to talk about how technology can actually really augment what's going on and move those teachers, educators, faculty up the value chain. 211 00:26:46,431.3165 --> 00:26:49,581.3165 So at home we can do the on-demand lectures. 212 00:26:49,611.3165 --> 00:26:53,301.3165 They can watch a video lecture, take notes, do practice questions. 213 00:26:53,891.3165 --> 00:26:57,741.3165 And then they can come to class with a list of questions. 214 00:26:57,901.3165 --> 00:27:01,791.3165 They can do a case study, a simulation, they can have a debate. 215 00:27:02,251.3165 --> 00:27:06,221.3165 Those are things you can't do online in front of a screen. 216 00:27:06,701.3165 --> 00:27:10,591.3155 So let's take those low hanging fruit activities off your plate. 217 00:27:10,931.3165 --> 00:27:17,861.3165 Let's take the grading and the rubrics and all those nitty gritty things that take up your time. 218 00:27:18,181.3165 --> 00:27:30,236.2165 Let's automate that so you can focus on value because we have amazing educators, amazing faculty that really should be doing those much more valuable activities. 219 00:27:31,216.3165 --> 00:27:32,76.3165 I agree with you. 220 00:27:32,76.3165 --> 00:27:33,666.3165 I think, don't get me wrong. 221 00:27:33,676.3165 --> 00:27:44,516.3165 There are some things about AI that I personally I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's expanding a little too rapidly, and I'll be honest with you. 222 00:27:44,516.3165 --> 00:27:45,516.3165 I'll share right. 223 00:27:45,826.3165 --> 00:27:52,316.3165 A lot of my podcast is, I won't, it's not created by AI, but it's powered by AI tools. 224 00:27:52,326.3165 --> 00:27:57,886.3165 So there's no way like I would have been able to have a podcast like five years ago. 225 00:27:57,886.3165 --> 00:28:05,346.3175 There's way too much work, but at the same time it's very scary. 226 00:28:05,961.3175 --> 00:28:10,591.3175 As to how fast it's growing from you, even from last year. 227 00:28:11,131.3175 --> 00:28:12,91.3175 Oh my goodness. 228 00:28:12,151.3175 --> 00:28:16,331.3175 It's, it's remarkable, but both for the good and the bad. 229 00:28:16,331.3175 --> 00:28:29,91.3175 I'm sure it's one of those things we're going to look back on and be like, Oh my gosh, it's just, how did we not know? Cause it does seem like it's growing so quickly that there's just no chance of keeping up. 230 00:28:30,331.3175 --> 00:28:51,591.3155 Yeah, but I do think that you've touched upon something where some of the more mundane and time consuming things that your nursing leaders can let go of that, and where they can be teaching more, right? Where the importance The important matter is that would be fantastic. 231 00:28:51,591.3155 --> 00:29:08,191.3155 And in a similar way, I think it, it can help with patience, right? With I always say AI should be used for imaging where the AI picks out, not reads, but picks out those images that look the more, most concerning. 232 00:29:08,211.3155 --> 00:29:09,161.3155 And then bring it. 233 00:29:09,411.3155 --> 00:29:16,341.3155 To the radiologist's attention so they can have a quicker look than just be in queue where, it just sits there. 234 00:29:16,671.3155 --> 00:29:20,931.3155 It sits there and then we don't actually see the pneumothorax for, hours. 235 00:29:20,931.3165 --> 00:29:25,951.3175 Hopefully that never actually happens, but, along those lines, it's it's so true. 236 00:29:26,626.3175 --> 00:29:35,106.3175 There are certain utilizations that are just fascinating and I know will advance nursing, medicine, education, so far. 237 00:29:35,456.3165 --> 00:30:02,221.2175 And it is still at the same time just a little bit scary when you don't totally know what's under the hood, right? Yes, I do use AI for different things to make my job easier, but yeah, I, I, right now I can't foresee how it would replace you or me and I hope it doesn't, but I do hope it, it enhances what we do for patients and makes it easier. 238 00:30:02,221.4175 --> 00:30:07,676.3317857 I'm going to be talking about how to make it easier for them in terms of access and care as well. 239 00:30:08,386.3317857 --> 00:30:14,596.3317857 On that note, tell us about, some interesting projects that you're involved with. 240 00:30:14,606.3317857 --> 00:30:16,496.3317857 So we know what you're up to. 241 00:30:17,136.3317857 --> 00:30:23,556.3307857 Yeah, our biggest recent project is what we called the Nursing School Companion Guide. 242 00:30:24,116.3307857 --> 00:30:39,806.3312857 And guide is probably not an appropriate descriptor in this sense, because what it is really A robust course that goes hand in hand for nursing students with every course that they take throughout their program. 243 00:30:40,226.3312857 --> 00:30:46,916.3312857 So a lot of nursing students start off with a fundamentals class where you get those bare bones information. 244 00:30:47,476.3312857 --> 00:30:51,346.3312857 And we created a course that goes along with them. 245 00:30:51,356.3312857 --> 00:30:59,116.3312857 So they've got little micro video lessons for that small, take it as you go, bite sized chunks of learning. 246 00:30:59,516.3312857 --> 00:31:03,846.3302857 Quizzes that go along with each of the major things they're going to learn. 247 00:31:04,191.3312857 --> 00:31:08,1.3312857 notes and cheat sheets, flashcards, you name it. 248 00:31:08,231.3312857 --> 00:31:14,81.3312857 And we really tried to make sure that we were hitting on all the different ways people can learn. 249 00:31:14,591.3312857 --> 00:31:17,511.3302857 I know for me, I'm a very kinesthetic learner. 250 00:31:17,511.3302857 --> 00:31:20,11.3312857 I need to be up and moving while I learn. 251 00:31:20,31.3302857 --> 00:31:23,661.3302857 So I put my lectures in my earbuds and go for a walk. 252 00:31:23,891.3302857 --> 00:31:26,421.3302857 We really wanted that to be a component of it. 253 00:31:26,821.3302857 --> 00:31:40,181.3302857 And while the students are using this, the goal is hopefully, as we discussed, they're doing the lectures and the notes at home and then going into the classroom for really fruitful discussions. 254 00:31:40,691.3302857 --> 00:31:51,691.3302857 And meanwhile, we're gathering all sorts of data from these students, projecting, analyzing, and graphing it out for the instructors. 255 00:31:51,971.3302857 --> 00:31:53,341.3302857 So they can see. 256 00:31:53,641.3302857 --> 00:31:57,791.3302857 Wow, 70 percent of the class did not understand heart failure. 257 00:31:58,41.3302857 --> 00:32:00,121.3302857 We're going to talk about heart failure today. 258 00:32:00,121.3302857 --> 00:32:03,311.3302857 We're going to really do a case study in person together. 259 00:32:04,181.3302857 --> 00:32:06,421.3302857 Or they can see, this lesson was a knockout. 260 00:32:06,421.3302857 --> 00:32:09,901.3297857 We can skip over this because they've really got a good grasp on it. 261 00:32:10,771.3287857 --> 00:32:20,891.3297857 At the same time, and what I'm most excited about, It does an amazing job at picking out students who are at risk way earlier on. 262 00:32:21,141.3297857 --> 00:32:23,291.3297857 We know as faculty that's one of our main job. 263 00:32:23,301.3287857 --> 00:32:31,381.3297857 We're always trying to identify those at risk students and get them help, but it's quite hard to do that until we're, at least at midterm time. 264 00:32:31,671.3297857 --> 00:32:38,751.3307857 Unfortunately, sometimes it's not even till close to finals, and then we're really at a situation where a student might not move on. 265 00:32:39,961.3307857 --> 00:32:47,551.3307857 With the AI and analytics, we can pick up on much more subtle differences in how engaged is the student. 266 00:32:47,851.3307857 --> 00:33:14,891.3297857 How many hours are they logging on? Are they just playing that video in the background and not actually watching it? Do they have other tabs open where they're, on Facebook while they're watching their heart failure lecture? All these sorts of things that can then give them a robust picture of, Student A really needs my help right now, and I'm going to help him on Week 2 rather than Week 12 when I still have the chance. 267 00:33:15,101.3297857 --> 00:33:18,471.3297857 I think that's going to be so big for reducing that dropout. 268 00:33:19,61.3297857 --> 00:33:22,811.3307857 That's what I really hope to see in the coming 2, 3, 4 years. 269 00:33:22,831.3307857 --> 00:33:24,541.3307857 We're looking at those numbers. 270 00:33:24,751.3307857 --> 00:33:31,241.3307857 And it's a big goal of mine that dropout or that failure rate starts to go down in the early years. 271 00:33:31,841.3307857 --> 00:33:43,6.1327857 So you have systems in place that basically test the effectiveness of, what you're doing, right? Yeah. 272 00:33:43,236.2327857 --> 00:33:43,936.2327857 That's great. 273 00:33:44,46.2327857 --> 00:33:44,786.2327857 That is great. 274 00:33:44,856.2327857 --> 00:34:00,456.1317857 I think, a lot of places need tools like that ways of measuring right how their employees are working, especially in health care, because, and not just like a patient satisfaction thing, but really measuring right. 275 00:34:00,746.2317857 --> 00:34:14,926.2307857 All these different things that you just mentioned in terms of their retention and, are they paying attention and who's at risk because it's those employees or students or what have you, where if they can be lifted. 276 00:34:15,471.2317857 --> 00:34:28,936.1307857 up instead of, tossed aside, I think it would make a big difference and it would really spell an improvement in our, national health crunch that we're experiencing. 277 00:34:28,996.2307857 --> 00:34:33,706.2307857 And, another component is that it doesn't have to be all on the faculty. 278 00:34:33,706.2307857 --> 00:34:46,366.2297857 There's a lot of data that shows us that peer to peer learning is incredibly effective, but we know that, college students aren't necessarily just going to go buddy up and study for two hours and be perfect. 279 00:34:46,716.2297857 --> 00:34:49,146.2297857 So what we can do is we can look at. 280 00:34:49,576.2307857 --> 00:34:53,926.2307857 Student A scored really high over here, but low here. 281 00:34:54,376.2307857 --> 00:34:56,446.2307857 Here's a student that has that flipped. 282 00:34:56,776.2307857 --> 00:35:03,776.2307857 They would make a really good study pair because they can teach those concepts to each other and do that teach back. 283 00:35:04,256.2307857 --> 00:35:16,636.2307857 So we can do some of that heavy lifting for the faculty, help automatically put those students where it will be the most fruitful, and get them learning from each other. 284 00:35:17,701.2307857 --> 00:35:30,106.3287857 And that is a much more social environment where people, where students are not pitted against each other, right? The competitiveness that occurs, at that level. 285 00:35:30,456.3297857 --> 00:35:40,966.3287857 But again, in healthcare, right? Yes, of course, there's always going to be one student who's better than the other, but ultimately it's all about patient care. 286 00:35:41,416.3297857 --> 00:35:43,346.3297857 and improving health. 287 00:35:43,916.3297857 --> 00:35:49,96.3297857 So if we can all learn from each other, I think, that's the biggest success of all. 288 00:35:49,586.3287857 --> 00:35:52,586.3292857 It so is it goes so far. 289 00:35:52,586.3292857 --> 00:35:54,456.3292857 And that was such a great point. 290 00:35:54,456.3292857 --> 00:35:58,6.3287857 You just brought up on the competitive nature of these programs. 291 00:35:58,456.3297857 --> 00:36:00,516.3297857 I think that fuels in. 292 00:36:00,821.3297857 --> 00:36:03,341.3297857 to how we treat each other on the job. 293 00:36:03,541.3297857 --> 00:36:17,801.3287857 If we've just come from four years of medical or nursing school, where we're all fighting for the top slot, why would we overnight become collaborative with this interdisciplinary team? That's why nurses eat their young. 294 00:36:17,991.3297857 --> 00:36:23,191.3297857 They're fighting to be the best nurse, the charge nurse, the head of this or that, the chief resident. 295 00:36:23,596.3297857 --> 00:36:28,116.3297857 instead of collaborating, supporting, and lifting each other up. 296 00:36:28,486.3297857 --> 00:36:40,396.3282857 Not to say that everybody's out to get everybody, but if the general sentiment is that we're all competing during school, I have no reason to think that sentiment wouldn't carry over to the workplace. 297 00:36:41,446.3292857 --> 00:36:43,146.3292857 It definitely does. 298 00:36:43,196.3292857 --> 00:36:51,746.3292857 Especially I see it in medicine and I, I also see it in nursing less so now because I work in a different type of environment. 299 00:36:51,756.3282857 --> 00:36:54,56.3282857 I work in a, a multi specialty group. 300 00:36:54,56.3282857 --> 00:36:55,766.3282857 I'm not in that academic setting. 301 00:36:56,231.3292857 --> 00:36:56,971.3292857 Anymore. 302 00:36:57,241.3292857 --> 00:37:00,421.3292857 I do remember one of the good things that I remember about my residency. 303 00:37:00,421.3292857 --> 00:37:14,961.3292857 I went to NYU was that it was such a stressful time in our lives that I think we all quickly figured out that you could either do it alone or you could recruit people to help and also have people who helped you. 304 00:37:15,391.3292857 --> 00:37:23,351.3292857 So I, that was one of the better memories of residency where I remember knowing who it was that I can count on. 305 00:37:23,696.3292857 --> 00:37:37,766.3282857 And who, who could count on me because I, there would be, there was no way that I was, would have been able to survive and thrive, not just survive, but thrive were it not for the help of my fellow residents. 306 00:37:37,766.3282857 --> 00:37:47,466.3292857 And and I really hope that your work at Archer promotes that and allows more nursing students to come through. 307 00:37:47,941.3302857 --> 00:38:05,131.3292857 Because I can't tell you, how difficult it's been with not having as many nurses around, like we really feel it and I want this podcast to be heard because I think patients have a hard time understanding what's going on in medicine right now. 308 00:38:05,181.3292857 --> 00:38:06,201.3292857 Oh, absolutely. 309 00:38:06,686.3302857 --> 00:38:17,336.3312857 And I hope it sheds some light so that they know that, we're all trying our best, but we're dealing with a lot of deficiencies right now that we're trying to make up for. 310 00:38:17,806.3312857 --> 00:38:19,76.3312857 Absolutely. 311 00:38:19,96.3312857 --> 00:38:25,906.3312857 And that's ultimately why it has to come down to the systems we put in place, the organization as a whole. 312 00:38:26,276.3312857 --> 00:38:33,986.3302857 I talk a lot about when the culture at, for example, a large health system, the top down priority is profit. 313 00:38:34,426.3312857 --> 00:38:48,456.3312857 That trickles down to the priority of the nursing director and the charge, the leader of that floor and that charge nurse and ultimately how every single nurse resident pharmacist is treated. 314 00:38:48,756.3312857 --> 00:38:55,526.3312857 So there does have to be an alignment from the top level of what's our priority here. 315 00:38:56,481.3312857 --> 00:39:03,181.3312857 Yeah, so in that way, I think you and I align very well, I think Absolutely. 316 00:39:03,181.3312857 --> 00:39:08,881.3312857 I think if I was an orthopedic surgeon, maybe not so much, Maybe that'd be a different story. 317 00:39:09,511.3312857 --> 00:39:20,966.3302857 You'd have a very different podcast, but yeah, I really thought carefully as to, You know why I wanted this on my podcast because it automatically does not spell women's health. 318 00:39:21,6.3302857 --> 00:39:31,76.4302857 But for me, it does because I take care of so many women and so many women patients who feel frustrated with the state of medicine. 319 00:39:31,456.4302857 --> 00:39:42,886.4302857 So hopefully it helps, shed a light, like I said, as to what we're dealing with and then the struggles that we're trying to make up So I wanted to thank you so much, Morgan, for being on my podcast. 320 00:39:43,441.4302857 --> 00:39:53,231.4292857 And I wanted to also allow yourself to talk about, where we can find you, all the great work that you're doing where can my listeners learn more about you. 321 00:39:53,876.4292857 --> 00:39:55,366.4292857 Sure, absolutely. 322 00:39:55,386.4292857 --> 00:39:57,926.4292857 No and thank you very much for having me here. 323 00:39:57,926.4292857 --> 00:40:13,986.4292857 I agree completely that for women and women's health, making sure that we prioritize bringing up this next generation of nurses in the right way, we'll pay dividends for ourself, our future children. 324 00:40:13,996.4292857 --> 00:40:16,466.4292857 It will go such a long way. 325 00:40:16,976.4292857 --> 00:40:20,276.4292857 So I can be reached at ArcherReview. 326 00:40:20,326.4292857 --> 00:40:25,326.4292857 com is our main site where all of our students join for our material. 327 00:40:25,576.4292857 --> 00:40:30,376.4292857 We're also on all the socials, if you do any of the Instagram or the Facebook at ArcherNursing. 328 00:40:32,136.4292857 --> 00:40:36,726.4292857 And then you can find me personally on LinkedIn as Morgan Taylor. 329 00:40:37,861.4292857 --> 00:40:38,511.4292857 Awesome. 330 00:40:38,711.4292857 --> 00:40:43,311.4292857 I will make sure to share all your handles my listeners can find you. 331 00:40:44,211.4292857 --> 00:40:44,771.4292857 Wonderful. 332 00:40:44,781.4292857 --> 00:40:45,311.4292857 Beautiful. 333 00:40:45,331.4292857 --> 00:40:47,321.4292857 I thank you again for the opportunity. 334 00:40:47,321.4292857 --> 00:40:52,421.4292857 I look forward to continuing to listen to your podcast and learning more and more from you. 335 00:40:52,431.4282857 --> 00:40:53,681.4292857 It's a, it's a great time. 336 00:40:54,181.4292857 --> 00:40:55,31.4282857 Thanks, Morgan. 337 00:40:55,41.4282857 --> 00:40:56,71.4292857 Thank you so much. 338 00:40:56,311.4292857 --> 00:41:00,411.4292857 And don't forget to like, share and review my podcast. 339 00:41:00,961.4292857 --> 00:41:04,751.4292857 Remember, it's always ladies first on Soma Says. 340 00:41:05,51.4292857 --> 00:41:08,711.4292857 Let's make a difference one conversation at a time.
Hi, this is Dr.
Soma.
Just a disclaimer, this podcast is for informational purposes only and isn't intended as medical advice.
Always consult with your doctor before making any changes to your diet, exercise, or health regimen.
Let's go to the show.
(00:43):
Welcome back to Soma Says.
I'm delighted to introduce our guest, Morgan Taylor.
Morgan is the Chief Nursing Officer at Archer Review, where she trains the next generation of nurses.
With a rich background as a registered traveling nurse, Morgan has delivered specialized pediatric care in top tier hospitals.
At Duke University Hospital, she spearheaded a new graduate nurse residency program.
(01:08):
Morgan's dedication extends globally through her work as a health care outreach coordinator with Cure America Global, organizing missions to enhance health care in underserved regions.
Currently pursuing a doctorate of nursing practice in pediatric nurse practitioner at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, Morgan is an alum of the University of North Carolina, Wilmington.
(01:31):
Join us as we explore Morgan's work Morgan's impactful journey in nursing and healthcare innovation. 14 00:01:43,752.687 --> 00:01:52,52.686 I just read an article Ballard Health just put out, 50 percent of nurses are leaving within their first two years. 15 00:01:52,352.686 --> 00:01:57,97.686 And I'm like that's less time than you spent learning how to be a nurse. 16 00:01:59,423.831 --> 00:02:02,483.831 I don't care who you are at some point in your life. 17 00:02:02,723.831 --> 00:02:18,823.83 You are going to have contact with a nurse, whether that's you directly as the patient, whether that's as a caregiver for a family member, you will have contact with a nurse and you want that nurse to be well educated, compassionate, competent, empathetic. 18 00:02:20,959.976 --> 00:02:30,849.976 the number one thing that I feel contributes to it, at least on a personal level, is just the nurses eat their young mentality. 19 00:02:31,44.976 --> 00:02:39,884.976 This has been a saying for far too long in our profession, with how we interact with and treat with these new novice nurses. 20 00:02:39,924.975 --> 00:02:54,551.12 And, oh my goodness, who wants to stay in an environment where they're being eaten? So what drew me to you was obviously your background in nursing. 21 00:02:55,21.12 --> 00:02:59,81.12 And ultimately you and I both take care of patients. 22 00:02:59,441.12 --> 00:03:05,241.1195 That's our goal is to have them be the healthiest and happiest that they can be. 23 00:03:05,781.1195 --> 00:03:19,871.1195 So can you start by telling us about your background and what led you to focus on nursing education and technology? Because not everybody has an interest there. 24 00:03:20,266.1195 --> 00:03:26,296.1195 What drew you to that? So I definitely have a bit of a windy path. 25 00:03:26,516.1195 --> 00:03:31,86.1195 It was this, where I am at now isn't what I ever planned for. 26 00:03:31,86.2195 --> 00:03:35,976.1195 I certainly went into nursing planning to be at the bedside for my entire career. 27 00:03:35,976.2195 --> 00:03:42,206.2195 I grew up as a nurse at Duke working in the intensive care unit, the emergency department. 28 00:03:42,546.2195 --> 00:03:43,896.2195 All in pediatrics. 29 00:03:43,896.2195 --> 00:03:45,486.2195 I'm a PEDS nurse at heart. 30 00:03:45,496.2195 --> 00:03:47,606.2195 You can't get me to take care of adults. 31 00:03:47,976.2195 --> 00:03:51,546.2195 I I later went on to become a pediatric nurse practitioner. 32 00:03:51,926.2195 --> 00:04:13,441.2195 But really where my story got interesting was during the pandemic, I was placed in the emergency room for most of the time that I was working on that time period, and I saw a really big shift in how prepared new nurses were when they came to join our workforce. 33 00:04:14,156.2195 --> 00:04:16,186.2195 And it makes sense when we think back on it. 34 00:04:16,196.2195 --> 00:04:25,146.2195 We had very few resources, they weren't getting very much clinical hours with that hands on experience that we know is so vital. 35 00:04:25,956.2195 --> 00:04:32,826.2195 But then doubly, they were coming into a very high intensity, high acuity environment. 36 00:04:33,526.2195 --> 00:04:40,246.2195 And not having a robust support system to really get them up to speed. 37 00:04:40,576.2195 --> 00:04:49,16.2195 There was just such a lack of mentorship and support that, as we see now, they're leaving the bedside really fast. 38 00:04:49,76.2205 --> 00:04:52,586.2205 And so all of that, that really didn't sit right with me. 39 00:04:52,586.2205 --> 00:04:55,506.2195 I knew there had to be a way we could be doing things better. 40 00:04:55,816.2205 --> 00:05:01,976.2205 We had to be more innovative with how we were educating this next generation. 41 00:05:02,596.2195 --> 00:05:12,891.2205 So for a while there, I Kept, kept working at the bedside and began looking into some opportunities on the side for how I could dip my toes into education. 42 00:05:12,891.2205 --> 00:05:31,611.2205 What else was out there? What's currently being done and how could we maybe start to think differently about that? And really where the tech savvy comes in is trying to solve for some of these major issues and needing technology to do needing to innovate with. 43 00:05:32,296.2205 --> 00:05:50,916.2195 How are we going to educate more nurses to maybe one day be out of a nursing crisis? How are we going to grow this pipeline of future, future healthcare professionals? And I'm no tech whiz, but I've learned a lot as we've tried to think about different ways to approach these problems. 44 00:05:51,246.2195 --> 00:06:04,821.2205 And it's all just stemmed from that love for educating first my patients and clients and then my students and how we can really make sure that next generation of nurses is here to stay. 45 00:06:05,821.2195 --> 00:06:09,891.2195 You touched on something that I can relate with. 46 00:06:10,291.2215 --> 00:06:12,541.2205 You mentioned a nursing shortage. 47 00:06:13,126.2205 --> 00:06:20,616.2205 And that nurses are leaving in the time span that they, educated and train themselves. 48 00:06:21,526.2195 --> 00:06:33,266.2205 Do you think that has anything to do with COVID? Or do you think it's the state of nursing or medicine as we speak? Because I'm a primary care physician. 49 00:06:33,526.2205 --> 00:06:40,986.2205 I have a special interest in women's health, but there is a severe, and we've been predicting and telling people this. 50 00:06:41,246.2205 --> 00:06:48,436.2205 All many years, even before COVID hit that there's a serious shortage of PCPs out there. 51 00:06:48,436.3205 --> 00:07:00,346.2195 And I know exactly what's been going on that has led to this, but what has been going on in nursing because it impacts me, it impacts my patients. 52 00:07:00,896.2205 --> 00:07:03,736.2205 What, what's going on? Absolutely. 53 00:07:03,736.2205 --> 00:07:05,306.2205 It impacts all of us. 54 00:07:05,306.2205 --> 00:07:08,366.2205 I don't care who you are at some point in your life. 55 00:07:08,606.2205 --> 00:07:24,706.2195 You are going to have contact with a nurse, whether that's you directly as the patient, whether that's as a caregiver for a family member, you will have contact with a nurse and you want that nurse to be well educated, compassionate, competent, empathetic. 56 00:07:25,46.2205 --> 00:07:26,706.2205 all of these great things. 57 00:07:26,706.2205 --> 00:07:39,366.2205 But if we're not putting the structures in place to get them there, and then when they do go into the workforce, they're leaving that quickly, we are all going to end up in a very bad place. 58 00:07:39,366.2205 --> 00:07:41,296.2205 And we're really starting to see that. 59 00:07:41,886.2205 --> 00:07:55,61.2205 So to back it up, do I think COVID helped the situation? No, I absolutely think that had a key triggering effect on some of our educational systems. 60 00:07:55,521.2205 --> 00:08:01,801.2195 Namely just less resources and less hands on resources to work with our students. 61 00:08:01,801.2205 --> 00:08:06,791.1205 And we're starting to see some of that get walked back, but not all of it. 62 00:08:06,791.2205 --> 00:08:11,296.2205 A great example here is that for nursing faculty. 63 00:08:11,596.2205 --> 00:08:20,976.2205 We are getting less and less people going into academia and actually being willing at an institutional level to educate these nurses. 64 00:08:21,266.2195 --> 00:08:33,36.2205 And how do you grow a profession without faculty there to teach them? There's obviously going to be a need for us to do things a little bit differently. 65 00:08:33,711.2205 --> 00:08:42,481.2205 That being said, many of the reasons that I see contributing to this existed long before COVID. 66 00:08:42,881.2205 --> 00:08:55,981.2205 The staffing ratios, the burnout, and the number one thing that I feel contributes to it, at least on a personal level, is just the nurses eat their young mentality. 67 00:08:56,176.2205 --> 00:09:05,16.2205 This has been a saying for far too long in our profession, with how we interact with and treat with these new novice nurses. 68 00:09:05,56.2195 --> 00:09:16,856.2215 And, oh my goodness, who wants to stay in an environment where they're being eaten? It's just not conducive to happy, thriving careers. 69 00:09:17,246.2215 --> 00:09:19,656.2205 And that has been going on for a very long time. 70 00:09:19,656.2205 --> 00:09:23,176.2205 It's just, certainly predates COVID and people are done with it. 71 00:09:23,236.2205 --> 00:09:25,686.2205 People are fed up and they're getting out of there. 72 00:09:25,726.2205 --> 00:09:31,396.2195 And if we don't really change how that looks from the get go, they're not going to stick around. 73 00:09:32,446.2205 --> 00:09:36,376.2205 I think we've seen that in medical school. 74 00:09:36,766.2205 --> 00:09:45,776.2195 I think it is somewhat transforming in medicine, although I haven't been in residency for many decades. 75 00:09:46,196.2195 --> 00:09:48,776.2185 So I can't truly attest to it. 76 00:09:48,786.2195 --> 00:09:48,846.2195 Thank you. 77 00:09:49,286.2205 --> 00:10:04,76.2195 But there's a mentality that, you know, at that time that it was a, an apprenticeship and where I trained and I'm not going to say it because God forbid, nursing leadership, Dr. 78 00:10:04,76.2205 --> 00:10:13,446.3205 Metzl, why did you talk about us? I do remember when I was at I'll just say it at NYU, some of the nurses and how afraid they were. 79 00:10:13,866.3205 --> 00:10:17,366.3205 Of nursing leadership and their managers. 80 00:10:17,386.3205 --> 00:10:23,816.3205 And it was very similar to what we went through as young residents and being afraid of certain attendings. 81 00:10:24,596.3195 --> 00:10:26,966.3205 I don't see how learning. 82 00:10:27,561.3205 --> 00:10:36,651.3205 Is the most fruitful in those circumstances, because if you're afraid in general, then you're going to be afraid to ask questions. 83 00:10:36,961.3205 --> 00:10:39,811.3205 You're going to be afraid when you do make a mistake. 84 00:10:39,861.3195 --> 00:10:46,1.3185 And as we both know medicine, nursing, what have you, there, there's no such thing as perfection. 85 00:10:46,331.3185 --> 00:10:46,991.3185 Oh, yeah. 86 00:10:47,421.3185 --> 00:11:01,801.3195 But it's, we're all human beings at the end of the day, but If you're in this fearful environment, then yes I can see how that can lead to, a diminished population of nurses. 87 00:11:02,391.3195 --> 00:11:15,851.3185 And people might be wondering, why am I talking about this right now? Because as I mentioned, it's impacting us, not just me as a doctor, but it's impacting my patients where they feel frustrated. 88 00:11:16,191.3195 --> 00:11:21,711.3195 So patients are wondering why, their questions are not being answered when they call the office. 89 00:11:22,221.3195 --> 00:11:23,591.3195 Because it's all tied. 90 00:11:23,621.3195 --> 00:11:25,261.3195 We don't work separately. 91 00:11:25,301.3195 --> 00:11:28,501.3195 Doctors and nurses work very close together. 92 00:11:28,521.3195 --> 00:11:34,621.318 And if I didn't have good nurses helping me then I would just be totally overwhelmed. 93 00:11:35,71.318 --> 00:11:42,761.319 So here's where you step in, right? How with the, the nursing education, the challenges. 94 00:11:43,116.318 --> 00:11:44,656.318 that, you have mentioned. 95 00:11:45,216.318 --> 00:11:55,106.318 How do you step in, in transforming that and educating nurses that we do have with tools and tech. 96 00:11:55,586.318 --> 00:12:03,436.318 What do you do to help? Yeah, I see really three key buckets that need to be addressed. 97 00:12:03,676.318 --> 00:12:15,831.317 And, I speak to nursing education because that's the world I live in, but I do believe this applies more broadly to healthcare education, to our residents, to our allied health peers. 98 00:12:15,851.317 --> 00:12:29,731.3165 There's so many people that are part of this interdisciplinary team, and it doesn't work unless we are all there and collaborating, especially when we have more complex and critically ill patients. 99 00:12:29,731.3165 --> 00:12:33,111.317 We just all have to bring our knowledge to the table. 100 00:12:33,691.317 --> 00:12:45,851.317 So the three big areas that I see us being able to actually affect some change is first growing the pipeline of future healthcare professionals. 101 00:12:46,161.317 --> 00:12:58,346.317 So for me, that means helping really early on, not just introduce them to the career, but provide them with actionable resources that can help them get there. 102 00:12:58,646.317 --> 00:13:04,746.317 That might be taking your entrance exam for nursing school or the MCAT if you're going to medical school. 103 00:13:05,276.317 --> 00:13:06,866.317 That takes resources. 104 00:13:06,876.317 --> 00:13:09,56.317 That's very challenging. 105 00:13:09,56.317 --> 00:13:25,286.316 So let's guide students to that and provide, from day one, compassionate, empathetic material that instills in them that they have a guide, a mentor, a cheerleader that's going to get them there. 106 00:13:25,506.316 --> 00:13:29,406.317 I really do think that starts before they're even in their program. 107 00:13:30,691.317 --> 00:13:41,671.317 The second big bucket that I see after really growing that pipeline of future professionals is making sure that once they're in that pipeline, they stay there. 108 00:13:41,681.317 --> 00:13:44,661.317 So for me, that's reducing dropout rates. 109 00:13:44,871.317 --> 00:13:55,631.316 We see a huge cliff that first year of nursing school, and I would not be surprised if other healthcare professions like medicine and our allied health professionals have seen that. 110 00:13:55,651.317 --> 00:13:57,251.317 similar experiences. 111 00:13:57,551.317 --> 00:13:59,321.317 It is very challenging. 112 00:13:59,351.317 --> 00:14:01,791.317 And honestly, it should be challenging. 113 00:14:01,791.317 --> 00:14:09,281.317 I have no problem with that, but we need to support the students through it every step of the way again. 114 00:14:09,381.317 --> 00:14:12,341.317 So they have mentorship and support. 115 00:14:13,241.316 --> 00:14:17,36.317 The third bucket is Hey, you've graduated. 116 00:14:17,46.317 --> 00:14:18,316.317 You're now a resident. 117 00:14:18,316.317 --> 00:14:21,516.317 You're now a new nurse or speech therapist. 118 00:14:21,846.317 --> 00:14:30,746.317 How do we support you to keep you in the profession? So that's career advancement and growth through continuing education. 119 00:14:31,391.317 --> 00:14:39,61.317 That's for nurses potentially advancing your career with a doctorate degree, becoming an advanced practice provider. 120 00:14:39,381.317 --> 00:14:47,911.316 There are many different pathways out there, but A, students don't know about them, or B, they don't feel supported to follow them. 121 00:14:48,581.316 --> 00:15:03,791.317 So I seek to really create a continuous learning platform from day one, throughout your professional career, that supports, guides, and keeps you moving on to the next step with confidence. 122 00:15:04,181.317 --> 00:15:18,491.316 There has to be some innovation in how we deliver that material, but when you boil it down and really get to the soup and nuts, that, that's my core belief at how we can affect change for our future healthcare professionals. 123 00:15:20,11.317 --> 00:15:40,501.318 And similarly what, it's recruiting for the Marines or the Army, right? Sometimes they go into environments where you may have to go to places where, they need more direction, right? And so in medicine and the way that looks is that over the years. 124 00:15:41,791.318 --> 00:15:59,331.318 students and residents who go into primary care, they may get their loans paid off, right? By the government or, that they're making, it more accessible for students who don't have the means or the resources to go to medical school. 125 00:15:59,631.318 --> 00:16:03,521.317 So how does nursing, the nursing profession. 126 00:16:03,876.318 --> 00:16:08,876.318 Recruit those kind of people so that people who don't have access to that. 127 00:16:08,876.318 --> 00:16:35,516.319 How do you do that? Yeah, though you touched on two of our big value words where I work which is accessible and affordable that's honestly part of what we feel is our key driver Because unless this education is accessible at an affordable price, then we are going to miss out on really valuable future health care providers. 128 00:16:36,26.319 --> 00:16:45,16.32 So something that really sticks out to me at Archer Review, a big proportion of our students are international. 129 00:16:45,296.319 --> 00:16:57,801.319 So the Philippines we have many students in Africa, Ghana, Kenya, And they are seeking to take their national licensure exam and immigrate to the United States. 130 00:16:58,341.319 --> 00:17:05,331.3185 Let me tell you, the barriers facing those students are nearly insurmountable sometimes. 131 00:17:05,331.3185 --> 00:17:09,301.319 They need to travel 12 hours to get to a testing center. 132 00:17:09,781.319 --> 00:17:15,361.319 Just really trouble with internet connection to even access the material. 133 00:17:15,711.319 --> 00:17:20,671.318 And of course the cost barrier, the cost for entry looks very different. 134 00:17:21,101.319 --> 00:17:23,21.319 than someone who maybe lives in New York. 135 00:17:23,791.319 --> 00:17:38,831.319 So really, that is not an area I knew a lot about until I started working with these students and realized that accessibility and affordability are shaping who is even able to enter this profession. 136 00:17:39,311.318 --> 00:17:43,261.318 So we do a couple of things to at least help with this. 137 00:17:43,261.418 --> 00:17:48,101.319 I'm not going to pretend like it solves the problem, but offering scholarships. 138 00:17:48,556.319 --> 00:17:56,316.319 doing reach out to certain areas like that to try and provide those resources at low or no cost. 139 00:17:56,556.319 --> 00:17:59,846.318 I do know we have similar programs with loan forgiveness. 140 00:17:59,846.319 --> 00:18:09,456.3195 I think that's a great point you touched on because many of these students will take out quite hefty loans and that's a big thing to think about in your longterm. 141 00:18:09,956.3195 --> 00:18:11,306.3195 It can be very daunting. 142 00:18:11,336.3195 --> 00:18:11,936.3195 I went absolutely. 143 00:18:11,936.3195 --> 00:18:17,66.3195 You, I was a, I'm a dinosaur, so a comparative dinosaur. 144 00:18:17,66.3195 --> 00:18:24,746.3195 So you know, what I came out with, I think is a mere fraction of what medical students come out with when they're done with medical school. 145 00:18:24,956.3195 --> 00:18:30,121.3195 I was also to just be going up and up faster and faster, doesn't it? It's crazy. 146 00:18:30,121.3195 --> 00:18:40,951.3195 I think my four years of medical school is equivalent to probably a year and a half tuition for college, certain colleges. 147 00:18:41,41.3195 --> 00:18:42,111.3195 Oh my goodness. 148 00:18:42,311.3185 --> 00:18:44,681.3195 That's how much things have changed. 149 00:18:45,411.3185 --> 00:18:51,461.3195 And I, yeah, and I went into medical school thinking, whatever figure because med school was on me. 150 00:18:51,461.3195 --> 00:18:52,271.3195 I paid for it. 151 00:18:52,321.3195 --> 00:18:54,1.3195 I figured out how to, pay for it. 152 00:18:54,511.3195 --> 00:19:08,181.3185 But I, while I was there I was like, it seemed like an astronomical amount to me But, these days it, it would be nothing, honestly, so I consider myself lucky. 153 00:19:08,771.3185 --> 00:19:25,331.3185 So you were mentioning some of the challenges and, at Archer, how do you make up for the education challenges for your, for the nursing students? Yeah, this is something that has been a big act of learning as we go. 154 00:19:25,361.3185 --> 00:19:35,661.3185 We set out with a vision to really make this education accessible and affordable, but we didn't have a perfect roadmap for exactly how that was going to look. 155 00:19:36,1.3185 --> 00:19:45,941.3185 And our key principle is that we keep our ear to the ground, listen to user feedback, and rapidly adapt according to what they're looking for. 156 00:19:46,336.3185 --> 00:19:50,846.3185 So for example, I tend to talk a little bit fast when I get excited. 157 00:19:50,846.3185 --> 00:19:56,16.3175 I'll be really passionate about like congenital heart defects and I'm going a mile a minute. 158 00:19:56,26.3185 --> 00:19:58,496.3185 They're like that's not going to work for us. 159 00:19:59,66.3185 --> 00:20:00,731.2185 So we built in very simple. 160 00:20:00,731.3185 --> 00:20:17,171.3185 Simple features of closed captioning and adjusting the speed for lectures and many of our students will slow certain parts down, as well as follow along with a transcript that transcript can also be auto translated into any language of their choice. 161 00:20:17,216.3185 --> 00:20:21,36.3185 So that they can read along with that lecture in their native language. 162 00:20:21,386.3185 --> 00:20:23,306.3185 And, all of those are small things. 163 00:20:23,306.3185 --> 00:20:31,436.3185 That's not the tech revolution of the century, but it goes a very long way in starting to break those barriers down. 164 00:20:31,996.3185 --> 00:20:39,76.3185 The other thing we did that we really worked quite hard on was building a very diverse tutoring staff. 165 00:20:39,476.3185 --> 00:20:52,126.3185 Fluent in multiple different languages so that we could all pivot when we had a student that was struggling with this and spoke Spanish or a student from Africa, and we have different time zones covered. 166 00:20:52,446.3185 --> 00:21:01,16.3185 Time zones is a big one that when you're dealing with one on one tutoring, sometimes you don't think about, not everybody lives in my same time zone. 167 00:21:01,346.3185 --> 00:21:12,231.3185 We really had to make sure the students were staff we built was representative of everyone we wanted to serve, and we will continue improving upon that every single day. 168 00:21:12,706.3185 --> 00:21:20,506.3185 But as long as we do it with intention, we listen to what is and isn't working for our students and keep making it better for them. 169 00:21:20,886.3185 --> 00:21:23,166.3185 I do believe that ultimately we'll get there. 170 00:21:24,336.3175 --> 00:21:37,606.3185 How do you see the future of nursing education? Is it going to radically transform? Has COVID changed all of that? Where, it's not the bedside learning anymore. 171 00:21:37,876.3185 --> 00:21:46,116.3185 But more tech oriented, or is it going to be a hybrid thing where, students have a combination of both. 172 00:21:47,21.3185 --> 00:21:48,141.3185 It's interesting. 173 00:21:48,141.3185 --> 00:21:51,361.3185 I think I have seen a little bit of everything. 174 00:21:51,411.3185 --> 00:21:56,911.3185 In my opinion, we're in a phase right now where we're finding the answer to that question. 175 00:21:57,281.3185 --> 00:22:04,741.3175 And what I see happening is that technology is used more to augment than it is to replace. 176 00:22:05,441.3185 --> 00:22:16,591.3185 I don't personally believe there will ever be sufficient nursing education where we don't go into the hospital, go into the clinic, and interact with our patients. 177 00:22:16,781.3185 --> 00:22:21,221.3175 I had someone ask me the other day if they thought telehealth would replace all patient visits. 178 00:22:21,901.3185 --> 00:22:31,411.3185 And I said, there is just no way, if I'm seeing a two year old for a well child check, I need to be in the room to know they're hitting their milestones. 179 00:22:31,671.3175 --> 00:22:38,661.3185 But the next week when they get an ear infection and mom calls me on the telehealth, I can get them some amoxicillin in the middle of the night. 180 00:22:39,81.3185 --> 00:22:43,271.3185 Telehealth, beautiful to augment, but never to replace. 181 00:22:43,301.3185 --> 00:22:45,511.3185 And I think it's the same thing in education. 182 00:22:45,761.3185 --> 00:23:02,261.3185 We've got crazy cool virtual reality simulations that are awesome and provide these low, no risk scenarios for students to be in a code or dealing with a clinical scenario that doesn't come up that frequently. 183 00:23:02,411.3185 --> 00:23:05,611.3185 So they're probably not going to see it in real life. 184 00:23:06,81.3185 --> 00:23:13,861.3185 Those are amazing ways to make our education better and better, but you can't use it as a one to one replacement. 185 00:23:13,901.3185 --> 00:23:21,281.3175 They've still got to go in person, put their hands on patients, and learn how that face to face value really works. 186 00:23:22,51.3185 --> 00:23:33,551.3185 That's refreshing to know because in my own experience, the learning curve really started for me in medical school and residency when we went to the bedside. 187 00:23:33,881.3185 --> 00:23:35,601.3185 It's totally different. 188 00:23:35,761.3185 --> 00:23:39,751.3185 So the learning real, the learning curve really started when. 189 00:23:39,936.3185 --> 00:23:54,306.3175 The learning that happened at the bedside, because when you associate a face with a certain condition, and you're actually treating the patient and they have a name and a history, and they trust you. 190 00:23:54,736.3175 --> 00:24:02,166.3185 There's no textbook or module that can replace that, it's actually a person, a soul that you're helping. 191 00:24:02,666.3185 --> 00:24:05,546.3185 So I think both for nursing and medicine. 192 00:24:06,396.3185 --> 00:24:09,996.3185 And I know even beyond residency when I think so big time. 193 00:24:10,791.3185 --> 00:24:11,141.3185 Yeah. 194 00:24:11,191.3185 --> 00:24:20,421.3175 When I started as a primary care physician way back when, the learning curve was even steeper because I trained in what they call categorical medicine. 195 00:24:20,421.3185 --> 00:24:23,301.3185 So it was very hospital based. 196 00:24:23,561.3175 --> 00:24:26,551.3175 I, I didn't have that primary care exposure. 197 00:24:26,961.3175 --> 00:24:36,576.3175 So it was only after my training where I started learning At an incremental speed, all the different things that I didn't have exposure to. 198 00:24:37,186.3175 --> 00:24:46,506.3165 So what do you do for your students and other educators? Cause not everybody is necessarily going to be. 199 00:24:48,656.3175 --> 00:24:55,736.3175 open arms about technology and all the different ways that you're trying to help nursing students. 200 00:24:55,776.3175 --> 00:25:01,596.3175 There, there's always going to be people who, you know, who don't embrace that. 201 00:25:01,876.3175 --> 00:25:07,526.3175 How do you encourage that? those people to see the light, if you want to call it that. 202 00:25:09,536.3175 --> 00:25:10,356.3175 Absolutely. 203 00:25:10,356.3175 --> 00:25:18,396.3175 I'll be the first to admit when we started seeing everything AI, I was very hesitant to some degree. 204 00:25:18,396.3175 --> 00:25:22,66.3165 There are certain things I am still very hesitant about. 205 00:25:22,556.3165 --> 00:25:37,826.3165 But for me, as long as I start to dip my toes in and really learn what's behind the curtain and really just educate myself about it, my brain starts going a million miles an hour at all the different potential implications it can have. 206 00:25:38,616.3155 --> 00:26:08,111.3165 So the first thing that I say when somebody is really not interested in talking about Any sort of technology in the classroom is I just post the question back to them, you know Do you think what we're doing right now is working? And the vast majority of the time I can get them to admit at least to a degree That we have some struggles And a big focus for us in nursing education right now is what we touched on earlier with the lack of faculty. 207 00:26:08,321.3165 --> 00:26:12,121.3165 They're trying to admit like 200 students a year. 208 00:26:12,431.3165 --> 00:26:15,321.3165 There's limited faculty there to manage. 209 00:26:15,851.3155 --> 00:26:23,291.3165 Doesn't leave a lot of resources for true connection with your students and that mentorship that everyone is craving. 210 00:26:24,591.3155 --> 00:26:45,991.3165 So with that being said, I think there is a little bit of the same fear we just discussed with, is this technology going to come and replace me? And I, I try to talk about how technology can actually really augment what's going on and move those teachers, educators, faculty up the value chain. 211 00:26:46,431.3165 --> 00:26:49,581.3165 So at home we can do the on-demand lectures. 212 00:26:49,611.3165 --> 00:26:53,301.3165 They can watch a video lecture, take notes, do practice questions. 213 00:26:53,891.3165 --> 00:26:57,741.3165 And then they can come to class with a list of questions. 214 00:26:57,901.3165 --> 00:27:01,791.3165 They can do a case study, a simulation, they can have a debate. 215 00:27:02,251.3165 --> 00:27:06,221.3165 Those are things you can't do online in front of a screen. 216 00:27:06,701.3165 --> 00:27:10,591.3155 So let's take those low hanging fruit activities off your plate. 217 00:27:10,931.3165 --> 00:27:17,861.3165 Let's take the grading and the rubrics and all those nitty gritty things that take up your time. 218 00:27:18,181.3165 --> 00:27:30,236.2165 Let's automate that so you can focus on value because we have amazing educators, amazing faculty that really should be doing those much more valuable activities. 219 00:27:31,216.3165 --> 00:27:32,76.3165 I agree with you. 220 00:27:32,76.3165 --> 00:27:33,666.3165 I think, don't get me wrong. 221 00:27:33,676.3165 --> 00:27:44,516.3165 There are some things about AI that I personally I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's expanding a little too rapidly, and I'll be honest with you. 222 00:27:44,516.3165 --> 00:27:45,516.3165 I'll share right. 223 00:27:45,826.3165 --> 00:27:52,316.3165 A lot of my podcast is, I won't, it's not created by AI, but it's powered by AI tools. 224 00:27:52,326.3165 --> 00:27:57,886.3165 So there's no way like I would have been able to have a podcast like five years ago. 225 00:27:57,886.3165 --> 00:28:05,346.3175 There's way too much work, but at the same time it's very scary. 226 00:28:05,961.3175 --> 00:28:10,591.3175 As to how fast it's growing from you, even from last year. 227 00:28:11,131.3175 --> 00:28:12,91.3175 Oh my goodness. 228 00:28:12,151.3175 --> 00:28:16,331.3175 It's, it's remarkable, but both for the good and the bad. 229 00:28:16,331.3175 --> 00:28:29,91.3175 I'm sure it's one of those things we're going to look back on and be like, Oh my gosh, it's just, how did we not know? Cause it does seem like it's growing so quickly that there's just no chance of keeping up. 230 00:28:30,331.3175 --> 00:28:51,591.3155 Yeah, but I do think that you've touched upon something where some of the more mundane and time consuming things that your nursing leaders can let go of that, and where they can be teaching more, right? Where the importance The important matter is that would be fantastic. 231 00:28:51,591.3155 --> 00:29:08,191.3155 And in a similar way, I think it, it can help with patience, right? With I always say AI should be used for imaging where the AI picks out, not reads, but picks out those images that look the more, most concerning. 232 00:29:08,211.3155 --> 00:29:09,161.3155 And then bring it. 233 00:29:09,411.3155 --> 00:29:16,341.3155 To the radiologist's attention so they can have a quicker look than just be in queue where, it just sits there. 234 00:29:16,671.3155 --> 00:29:20,931.3155 It sits there and then we don't actually see the pneumothorax for, hours. 235 00:29:20,931.3165 --> 00:29:25,951.3175 Hopefully that never actually happens, but, along those lines, it's it's so true. 236 00:29:26,626.3175 --> 00:29:35,106.3175 There are certain utilizations that are just fascinating and I know will advance nursing, medicine, education, so far. 237 00:29:35,456.3165 --> 00:30:02,221.2175 And it is still at the same time just a little bit scary when you don't totally know what's under the hood, right? Yes, I do use AI for different things to make my job easier, but yeah, I, I, right now I can't foresee how it would replace you or me and I hope it doesn't, but I do hope it, it enhances what we do for patients and makes it easier. 238 00:30:02,221.4175 --> 00:30:07,676.3317857 I'm going to be talking about how to make it easier for them in terms of access and care as well. 239 00:30:08,386.3317857 --> 00:30:14,596.3317857 On that note, tell us about, some interesting projects that you're involved with. 240 00:30:14,606.3317857 --> 00:30:16,496.3317857 So we know what you're up to. 241 00:30:17,136.3317857 --> 00:30:23,556.3307857 Yeah, our biggest recent project is what we called the Nursing School Companion Guide. 242 00:30:24,116.3307857 --> 00:30:39,806.3312857 And guide is probably not an appropriate descriptor in this sense, because what it is really A robust course that goes hand in hand for nursing students with every course that they take throughout their program. 243 00:30:40,226.3312857 --> 00:30:46,916.3312857 So a lot of nursing students start off with a fundamentals class where you get those bare bones information. 244 00:30:47,476.3312857 --> 00:30:51,346.3312857 And we created a course that goes along with them. 245 00:30:51,356.3312857 --> 00:30:59,116.3312857 So they've got little micro video lessons for that small, take it as you go, bite sized chunks of learning. 246 00:30:59,516.3312857 --> 00:31:03,846.3302857 Quizzes that go along with each of the major things they're going to learn. 247 00:31:04,191.3312857 --> 00:31:08,1.3312857 notes and cheat sheets, flashcards, you name it. 248 00:31:08,231.3312857 --> 00:31:14,81.3312857 And we really tried to make sure that we were hitting on all the different ways people can learn. 249 00:31:14,591.3312857 --> 00:31:17,511.3302857 I know for me, I'm a very kinesthetic learner. 250 00:31:17,511.3302857 --> 00:31:20,11.3312857 I need to be up and moving while I learn. 251 00:31:20,31.3302857 --> 00:31:23,661.3302857 So I put my lectures in my earbuds and go for a walk. 252 00:31:23,891.3302857 --> 00:31:26,421.3302857 We really wanted that to be a component of it. 253 00:31:26,821.3302857 --> 00:31:40,181.3302857 And while the students are using this, the goal is hopefully, as we discussed, they're doing the lectures and the notes at home and then going into the classroom for really fruitful discussions. 254 00:31:40,691.3302857 --> 00:31:51,691.3302857 And meanwhile, we're gathering all sorts of data from these students, projecting, analyzing, and graphing it out for the instructors. 255 00:31:51,971.3302857 --> 00:31:53,341.3302857 So they can see. 256 00:31:53,641.3302857 --> 00:31:57,791.3302857 Wow, 70 percent of the class did not understand heart failure. 257 00:31:58,41.3302857 --> 00:32:00,121.3302857 We're going to talk about heart failure today. 258 00:32:00,121.3302857 --> 00:32:03,311.3302857 We're going to really do a case study in person together. 259 00:32:04,181.3302857 --> 00:32:06,421.3302857 Or they can see, this lesson was a knockout. 260 00:32:06,421.3302857 --> 00:32:09,901.3297857 We can skip over this because they've really got a good grasp on it. 261 00:32:10,771.3287857 --> 00:32:20,891.3297857 At the same time, and what I'm most excited about, It does an amazing job at picking out students who are at risk way earlier on. 262 00:32:21,141.3297857 --> 00:32:23,291.3297857 We know as faculty that's one of our main job. 263 00:32:23,301.3287857 --> 00:32:31,381.3297857 We're always trying to identify those at risk students and get them help, but it's quite hard to do that until we're, at least at midterm time. 264 00:32:31,671.3297857 --> 00:32:38,751.3307857 Unfortunately, sometimes it's not even till close to finals, and then we're really at a situation where a student might not move on. 265 00:32:39,961.3307857 --> 00:32:47,551.3307857 With the AI and analytics, we can pick up on much more subtle differences in how engaged is the student. 266 00:32:47,851.3307857 --> 00:33:14,891.3297857 How many hours are they logging on? Are they just playing that video in the background and not actually watching it? Do they have other tabs open where they're, on Facebook while they're watching their heart failure lecture? All these sorts of things that can then give them a robust picture of, Student A really needs my help right now, and I'm going to help him on Week 2 rather than Week 12 when I still have the chance. 267 00:33:15,101.3297857 --> 00:33:18,471.3297857 I think that's going to be so big for reducing that dropout. 268 00:33:19,61.3297857 --> 00:33:22,811.3307857 That's what I really hope to see in the coming 2, 3, 4 years. 269 00:33:22,831.3307857 --> 00:33:24,541.3307857 We're looking at those numbers. 270 00:33:24,751.3307857 --> 00:33:31,241.3307857 And it's a big goal of mine that dropout or that failure rate starts to go down in the early years. 271 00:33:31,841.3307857 --> 00:33:43,6.1327857 So you have systems in place that basically test the effectiveness of, what you're doing, right? Yeah. 272 00:33:43,236.2327857 --> 00:33:43,936.2327857 That's great. 273 00:33:44,46.2327857 --> 00:33:44,786.2327857 That is great. 274 00:33:44,856.2327857 --> 00:34:00,456.1317857 I think, a lot of places need tools like that ways of measuring right how their employees are working, especially in health care, because, and not just like a patient satisfaction thing, but really measuring right. 275 00:34:00,746.2317857 --> 00:34:14,926.2307857 All these different things that you just mentioned in terms of their retention and, are they paying attention and who's at risk because it's those employees or students or what have you, where if they can be lifted. 276 00:34:15,471.2317857 --> 00:34:28,936.1307857 up instead of, tossed aside, I think it would make a big difference and it would really spell an improvement in our, national health crunch that we're experiencing. 277 00:34:28,996.2307857 --> 00:34:33,706.2307857 And, another component is that it doesn't have to be all on the faculty. 278 00:34:33,706.2307857 --> 00:34:46,366.2297857 There's a lot of data that shows us that peer to peer learning is incredibly effective, but we know that, college students aren't necessarily just going to go buddy up and study for two hours and be perfect. 279 00:34:46,716.2297857 --> 00:34:49,146.2297857 So what we can do is we can look at. 280 00:34:49,576.2307857 --> 00:34:53,926.2307857 Student A scored really high over here, but low here. 281 00:34:54,376.2307857 --> 00:34:56,446.2307857 Here's a student that has that flipped. 282 00:34:56,776.2307857 --> 00:35:03,776.2307857 They would make a really good study pair because they can teach those concepts to each other and do that teach back. 283 00:35:04,256.2307857 --> 00:35:16,636.2307857 So we can do some of that heavy lifting for the faculty, help automatically put those students where it will be the most fruitful, and get them learning from each other. 284 00:35:17,701.2307857 --> 00:35:30,106.3287857 And that is a much more social environment where people, where students are not pitted against each other, right? The competitiveness that occurs, at that level. 285 00:35:30,456.3297857 --> 00:35:40,966.3287857 But again, in healthcare, right? Yes, of course, there's always going to be one student who's better than the other, but ultimately it's all about patient care. 286 00:35:41,416.3297857 --> 00:35:43,346.3297857 and improving health. 287 00:35:43,916.3297857 --> 00:35:49,96.3297857 So if we can all learn from each other, I think, that's the biggest success of all. 288 00:35:49,586.3287857 --> 00:35:52,586.3292857 It so is it goes so far. 289 00:35:52,586.3292857 --> 00:35:54,456.3292857 And that was such a great point. 290 00:35:54,456.3292857 --> 00:35:58,6.3287857 You just brought up on the competitive nature of these programs. 291 00:35:58,456.3297857 --> 00:36:00,516.3297857 I think that fuels in. 292 00:36:00,821.3297857 --> 00:36:03,341.3297857 to how we treat each other on the job. 293 00:36:03,541.3297857 --> 00:36:17,801.3287857 If we've just come from four years of medical or nursing school, where we're all fighting for the top slot, why would we overnight become collaborative with this interdisciplinary team? That's why nurses eat their young. 294 00:36:17,991.3297857 --> 00:36:23,191.3297857 They're fighting to be the best nurse, the charge nurse, the head of this or that, the chief resident. 295 00:36:23,596.3297857 --> 00:36:28,116.3297857 instead of collaborating, supporting, and lifting each other up. 296 00:36:28,486.3297857 --> 00:36:40,396.3282857 Not to say that everybody's out to get everybody, but if the general sentiment is that we're all competing during school, I have no reason to think that sentiment wouldn't carry over to the workplace. 297 00:36:41,446.3292857 --> 00:36:43,146.3292857 It definitely does. 298 00:36:43,196.3292857 --> 00:36:51,746.3292857 Especially I see it in medicine and I, I also see it in nursing less so now because I work in a different type of environment. 299 00:36:51,756.3282857 --> 00:36:54,56.3282857 I work in a, a multi specialty group. 300 00:36:54,56.3282857 --> 00:36:55,766.3282857 I'm not in that academic setting. 301 00:36:56,231.3292857 --> 00:36:56,971.3292857 Anymore. 302 00:36:57,241.3292857 --> 00:37:00,421.3292857 I do remember one of the good things that I remember about my residency. 303 00:37:00,421.3292857 --> 00:37:14,961.3292857 I went to NYU was that it was such a stressful time in our lives that I think we all quickly figured out that you could either do it alone or you could recruit people to help and also have people who helped you. 304 00:37:15,391.3292857 --> 00:37:23,351.3292857 So I, that was one of the better memories of residency where I remember knowing who it was that I can count on. 305 00:37:23,696.3292857 --> 00:37:37,766.3282857 And who, who could count on me because I, there would be, there was no way that I was, would have been able to survive and thrive, not just survive, but thrive were it not for the help of my fellow residents. 306 00:37:37,766.3282857 --> 00:37:47,466.3292857 And and I really hope that your work at Archer promotes that and allows more nursing students to come through. 307 00:37:47,941.3302857 --> 00:38:05,131.3292857 Because I can't tell you, how difficult it's been with not having as many nurses around, like we really feel it and I want this podcast to be heard because I think patients have a hard time understanding what's going on in medicine right now. 308 00:38:05,181.3292857 --> 00:38:06,201.3292857 Oh, absolutely. 309 00:38:06,686.3302857 --> 00:38:17,336.3312857 And I hope it sheds some light so that they know that, we're all trying our best, but we're dealing with a lot of deficiencies right now that we're trying to make up for. 310 00:38:17,806.3312857 --> 00:38:19,76.3312857 Absolutely. 311 00:38:19,96.3312857 --> 00:38:25,906.3312857 And that's ultimately why it has to come down to the systems we put in place, the organization as a whole. 312 00:38:26,276.3312857 --> 00:38:33,986.3302857 I talk a lot about when the culture at, for example, a large health system, the top down priority is profit. 313 00:38:34,426.3312857 --> 00:38:48,456.3312857 That trickles down to the priority of the nursing director and the charge, the leader of that floor and that charge nurse and ultimately how every single nurse resident pharmacist is treated. 314 00:38:48,756.3312857 --> 00:38:55,526.3312857 So there does have to be an alignment from the top level of what's our priority here. 315 00:38:56,481.3312857 --> 00:39:03,181.3312857 Yeah, so in that way, I think you and I align very well, I think Absolutely. 316 00:39:03,181.3312857 --> 00:39:08,881.3312857 I think if I was an orthopedic surgeon, maybe not so much, Maybe that'd be a different story. 317 00:39:09,511.3312857 --> 00:39:20,966.3302857 You'd have a very different podcast, but yeah, I really thought carefully as to, You know why I wanted this on my podcast because it automatically does not spell women's health. 318 00:39:21,6.3302857 --> 00:39:31,76.4302857 But for me, it does because I take care of so many women and so many women patients who feel frustrated with the state of medicine. 319 00:39:31,456.4302857 --> 00:39:42,886.4302857 So hopefully it helps, shed a light, like I said, as to what we're dealing with and then the struggles that we're trying to make up So I wanted to thank you so much, Morgan, for being on my podcast. 320 00:39:43,441.4302857 --> 00:39:53,231.4292857 And I wanted to also allow yourself to talk about, where we can find you, all the great work that you're doing where can my listeners learn more about you. 321 00:39:53,876.4292857 --> 00:39:55,366.4292857 Sure, absolutely. 322 00:39:55,386.4292857 --> 00:39:57,926.4292857 No and thank you very much for having me here. 323 00:39:57,926.4292857 --> 00:40:13,986.4292857 I agree completely that for women and women's health, making sure that we prioritize bringing up this next generation of nurses in the right way, we'll pay dividends for ourself, our future children. 324 00:40:13,996.4292857 --> 00:40:16,466.4292857 It will go such a long way. 325 00:40:16,976.4292857 --> 00:40:20,276.4292857 So I can be reached at ArcherReview. 326 00:40:20,326.4292857 --> 00:40:25,326.4292857 com is our main site where all of our students join for our material. 327 00:40:25,576.4292857 --> 00:40:30,376.4292857 We're also on all the socials, if you do any of the Instagram or the Facebook at ArcherNursing. 328 00:40:32,136.4292857 --> 00:40:36,726.4292857 And then you can find me personally on LinkedIn as Morgan Taylor. 329 00:40:37,861.4292857 --> 00:40:38,511.4292857 Awesome. 330 00:40:38,711.4292857 --> 00:40:43,311.4292857 I will make sure to share all your handles my listeners can find you. 331 00:40:44,211.4292857 --> 00:40:44,771.4292857 Wonderful. 332 00:40:44,781.4292857 --> 00:40:45,311.4292857 Beautiful. 333 00:40:45,331.4292857 --> 00:40:47,321.4292857 I thank you again for the opportunity. 334 00:40:47,321.4292857 --> 00:40:52,421.4292857 I look forward to continuing to listen to your podcast and learning more and more from you. 335 00:40:52,431.4282857 --> 00:40:53,681.4292857 It's a, it's a great time. 336 00:40:54,181.4292857 --> 00:40:55,31.4282857 Thanks, Morgan. 337 00:40:55,41.4282857 --> 00:40:56,71.4292857 Thank you so much. 338 00:40:56,311.4292857 --> 00:41:00,411.4292857 And don't forget to like, share and review my podcast. 339 00:41:00,961.4292857 --> 00:41:04,751.4292857 Remember, it's always ladies first on Soma Says. 340 00:41:05,51.4292857 --> 00:41:08,711.4292857 Let's make a difference one conversation at a time.
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