September 14, 2025 • 41 mins
Welcome to Season Three of Soma Says! In this powerful episode, Dr. Soma Mandal sits down with Briana Bass, founder of The Wellness Institute in Dallas and board-certified clinical sexologist, to explore how midlife can become a masterclass in health, connection, and self-discovery.
Brianna shares her journey from corporate burnout to mental health advocate, offering evidence-based, practical strategies for navigating perimenopause, menopause, and the pressures facing high-achieving women. Together, they break down the myths of sex therapy, discuss the “pie of life” approach to wellness, and reveal the eight forms of intimacy that sustain relationships beyond the bedroom.
Key topics include:
- How to reclaim your sense of self during life transitions
- The truth about intimacy, body image, and emotional connection
- Red flags and green flags in modern relationships
- Overcoming loneliness and building community
- Dating app fatigue and authentic connection in the digital age
- Why therapy is for everyone—not just for crisis
Whether you’re seeking inspiration, practical advice, or a fresh perspective on relationships and wellness, this episode will leave you empowered to make meaningful changes—one conversation at a time.
00:00 – Disclaimer & Introduction Dr. Soma Mandal opens the episode with a medical disclaimer and welcomes listeners to Season Three of Soma Says.
00:53 – Meet the Guest: Briana Bass Introduction to Briana Bass, founder of The Wellness Institute, and her unique approach to mental health and sexology.
02:24 – Briana’s Journey: From Corporate Burnout to Therapy Brianna shares her transition from the corporate world to becoming a clinical sexologist and mental health advocate.
04:22 – Redefining Intimacy & Identity in Midlife Discussion on intimacy, trauma, and helping clients reconnect with themselves, especially during perimenopause and menopause.
06:01 – The “Pie of Life” Approach to Wellness Brianna explains her holistic framework for lifestyle, community, and self-care, and how it impacts mental and sexual health.
10:27 – Body Image, Shame, and Self-Worth Addressing body changes, societal messaging, and how to break the cycle of shame and guilt.
13:10 – Debunking Myths About Sex Therapy Brianna clarifies what sex therapy really is, common misconceptions, and the importance of emotional safety in relationships.
16:30 – Taboos and Communication Barriers Why sex is still taboo, even in intimate relationships, and how to foster open communication.
19:30 – Red Flags, Green Flags, and Relationship Patterns How to spot healthy and unhealthy relationship dynamics, with advice for both singles and couples.
24:00 – Dating App Fatigue & Authentic Connection Exploring the impact of dating apps, self-worth, and how to seek meaningful relationships in the digital age.
27:00 – The Eight Forms of Intimacy Brianna introduces the eight forms of intimacy that sustain relationships beyond the bedroom.
29:30 – Therapy as Prevention, Not Just Crisis Why therapy is valuable for everyone, not just those in crisis.
31:00 – Connect with Briana Bass Where to find Brianna online, her preference for in-person therapy, and closing thoughts.
32:57 – Outro & Call to Action Dr. Soma wraps up the episode, encouraging listeners to like, share, and review the podcast.
Connect with Brianna Bass: Website: brianabass.org Instagram: @brianabasstherapy
If you enjoyed this episode, please like, share, and review Soma Says. Remember, it’s always ladies first—let’s make a difference together!
📖 Get Dr. Soma’s Book: Midlife Masala Available wherever books are sold:
🌐 Amazon
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⭐ BookBub
Or download the Thinkific companion resource directly from my website: www.somamandalmd.com 📸 Instagram: @drsomamandalmd 👥 Link
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, this is Dr.
(00:01):
Soma.
Just a disclaimer, this podcast is for informational purposes only and isn't intended as medical advice.
Always consult with your doctor before making any changes to your diet, exercise, or health regimen.
Let's go to the show.
(00:52):
Welcome to season two of Soma Says.
Where we turn midlife into a masterclass in health.
I'm Dr.
Soma Mandel, and this season we're going deeper, bolder, and more practical than ever.
Today's guest is Brianna Bass, the founder of The Wellness Institute in Dallas, a modern mental health collective built for people who refuse to settle.
(01:14):
Brianna is an LPC Associate and Board certified clinical sexologist with a PhD in progress.
Known for an evidence-based results-driven approach that helps clients experience a real before and after in therapy.
Her work spans couples and sex therapy, trauma, anxiety, and the pressures facing high achieving professionals, and she blends the rigor of CBT and emotionally focused therapy and Gottman methods with a sharp understanding of today's swipe right.
(01:47):
Dating culture and workplace burnout before private practice.
She spent over a decade in high caliber corporate environments.
so she speaks the language of ambitious lives and complicated relationships.
If you've ever wondered what truly modern therapy sounds like, empathetic neuroscience, informed and unapologetically practical, you're about to hear it.
(02:13):
Brianna, welcome to Somo Says.
We have Brianna Bass who's joining us today from Dallas, Texas.
And you are a board certified clinical sexologist.
Yes.
Tell us what that is and who and what you treat.
a board certified clinical sexologist, which I, no one asked me.
(02:33):
I didn't name it.
It's a funny title.
It sounds silly or made up almost as sexologist.
But, we just have to think.
There's zoologists, physiologists, geologists, all theologists.
But so I don't just study sex though.
I really study the sexual organs and someone's relationship with sex.
So I treat everything from rape and sexual assault.
To porn addiction.
To somebody that's going through menopause or perimenopause.
(02:56):
I help couples get connected and things like that.
Healing from any kind of trauma like I mentioned.
And then really overall, if you could sum it up, most simply would be focusing on intimacy.
So that does not necessarily mean the act or art of sex.
It could be a number of things, but I work with people who feel like they've lost themselves perhaps in that particular space.
(03:19):
And you originally come from a corporate background.
tell us how you transitioned into this clinical space.
corporate life was something I often say I'm still recovering from.
So I had that classic burnout.
I was very high functioning had a lot of anxiety, I wanted to make it.
And anxiety can masquerade as ambition.
(03:41):
I am incredibly ambitious, don't get me wrong, but I think for a lot of ambitious people.
They are very anxious and burnout is probably not too far from them.
So it can look like incredible commitment to your job, but I do wonder and wanna challenge people to think about that commitment and if behind it is actually fear failure, things like that.
(04:01):
In the corporate world, I felt like I was betraying my authenticity.
And so for those reasons, I decided to make an entire shift.
But I really didn't reinvent myself.
I went actually back to my original roots because doing what I do now is my roots, starting from Bachelor of Science in college.
COVID was a big catalyst for kind of tripling down on this particular path.
Like a lot of people that were like, wait a minute.
(04:24):
I don't think I'm doing things right, or I'm very unhappy, or all of our priorities got re-shifted during COVID And then when we thought, oh my gosh, life is so delicate.
It could be taken away at any second.
We're hearing about thousands of people dying on a day-to-day basis.
We all have this moment of, oh my goodness, let me take a step back and reassess what my life looks like and my priorities.
(04:46):
And I did the same thing.
I've gone on to get my master's in clinical mental health since my bachelor of science, and then my PhD is in clinical sexology, and that's the board certified clinical sexologist piece.
Okay.
And so how long have you had this practice? Was it since COVID or before that? And then the corporate background was in addition to the hard education, the.
(05:08):
The first world, firsthand, boots on the ground in the field, education as far as human behavior, and that particular type of clientele that I often gravitate to or gravitate towards me, which is that, hey, I want more from life.
I feel like I'm throwing things at it.
I listen to podcasts, I have an audible membership or things like that.
I heard this thing on TikTok, but for some reason they're still feeling stuck.
(05:33):
you mentioned some of the clinical scenarios that you do see and treat.
during perimenopause and menopause, libido, sex intimacy can all be factors in a relationship.
how do you approach that patient and what are the steps that you usually take with her and or their partner? perimenopause and menopause in general is tough.
(06:03):
I have all the empathy and all the reverence in the world for that.
It's absolutely critical.
And that time in our life, especially as women, we're already faced with.
So much pressure.
We're already feeling, can I keep up with the changing world? We're aging.
It's difficult.
So then to have these biological factors and physiological factors at play inside of us that we didn't choose, we didn't really have a say in and we can't control.
(06:26):
That's hard.
That's really hard.
So you're feeling your libido drop, or it could be vaginal dryness or just brain fog or a lack of.
Sense of self or feeling out of touch with who you typically are.
So if I were to see someone who is presenting with some of those things, I'd want to talk with them about, psychoeducation on what I just said, and filling them in on how it's normal.
(06:46):
So let me normalize for you all the things that you're experiencing.
'cause I get a lot of people that say I'm broken.
I have husbands that send their wives in and say, can you fix her? But first off, let's talk about what's actually going on here.
And then I also wanna talk about the medical aspect as far as them consulting with an ob, GYN or someone that can, get the prescriptions going and do the hormonal testing and things like that.
And then we also wanna talk about their lifestyle, right? So what does that lifestyle look like? Where else do you feel like these symptoms or potential symptoms are causing you to experience issues or unpleasantness? So we're talking about a combination of psychoeducation, figuring out what's going on, sifting through their symptoms, the medical aspect, and then the lifestyle aspect.
(07:29):
And those are the first things I would start to go over with someone as we talked about perimenopause or menopause.
And so you work closely with either the primary care physician or patient's gynecologist or perhaps endocrinologist.
So it sounds like it's a multifactorial approach that you take because there's an imbalance in the hormones, which can impact a woman during this time.
(07:57):
Where do you see therapy and lifestyle? How do you incorporate that into the treatment of your patients? When I talk about lifestyle, I'm talking about things like sleep, diet.
Physical activity, their community.
So do they have interests in hobbies? Their partner, if they're in a relationship, and if they're not, do they desire to be? So it's also about isolation, and that sort of goes to the community piece of it or withdraw.
(08:27):
We wanna look at all of these things, I call it the pie of life and identify how's our lifestyle score in these different areas.
Maybe not that day.
But then we're talking about physical security, physical insecurity.
How do I feel about myself, about my body, right? And then community that can spawn a conversation about.
I'm really lonely.
I feel withdraw and isolated.
(08:48):
I don't really have a great friend group or someone I outlets.
I feel like I can confide in and things like that, which we all have come to learn over the last five, 10 years that, that is, they call it the new smoking is loneliness, right? So we wanna definitely talk about community and then the sleep and what we're eating and that kind of thing.
it's very possible that they feel like that relationship is toxic or causing them a lot of pain and a lot of distress.
(09:11):
And then combine that with someone who, let's say, is facing something like menopause.
What a storm that this woman is going through, where she also doesn't feel like in her home she's getting the support she needs or feels safe or like it's a non-judgmental space to say, Hey, this is actually where I'm at in life and this is what I'm experiencing.
So when I talk about lifestyle it's about, six or seven categories that we.
(09:33):
chat about we're like, Hey, my community sucks.
My community sucks because I've lost myself.
So I've decided just to stay home most nights.
I don't have interest in hobbies.
I just take care of the kids all day.
Or all I do is work and then I go home and watch TV or I doom scroll, and then I groundhog date and.
Start over the next day.
Common stuff, right? So I think that talking about the lifestyle in all those different categories is a fabulous framework for, okay, where do we jump off from here? One of the things that I see in my office with women who are in this stage, perimenopause and menopause, is they often feel very down about their appearance.
(10:13):
Perhaps it's weight gain, perhaps it's just their body changing, their skin becomes looser, all sorts of stuff.
How do you help women with these kind of issues? First, I think we'd identify why that's so important to them.
Where does that messaging come from? I'm not debating that it's not important.
(10:33):
That'd be ridiculous of me to say, oh, just don't care about the way that you look I'm the last person to say that, I'm incredibly vain, unfortunately.
If they say I've been taught, or the world around me, society is telling me, oh my gosh, I'll be left behind.
My partner won't find me sexy anymore.
Maybe at the grocery store I don't get looks anymore.
Instead I just get passed up.
(10:55):
So those things I wanna dig into.
What does that emotional impact, what does it feel like to be in that skin that's a little bit more loose? What's it like to look at yourself in the mirror and to see these changes? Because it can be very painful and it can make you have a little bit of an identity crisis.
And be contributing again to that pie.
So the first thing would be to breathe life into the, to the issue itself.
(11:18):
To discuss it and to call it out, because I might be the only person that someone's able to say it's not something that you typically say to dinner table, or even with girlfriends sometimes, right to say.
I feel horrible about myself.
A lot of times.
Also, they believe it's within their control, so there's a lot of shame and guilt.
I don't do enough.
I don't do what I need to do.
(11:39):
I don't eat right, or I don't work out.
So now we have shame and guilt in there, right? And we feel incredibly responsible, and it just turns into this messy kind of cycle.
But yeah, first and foremost would be to address the emotions associated with that body image and that shame and where those messages may have originated from, and how they're impacting them, navigating their life today, and contributing into, insecurity.
(12:01):
Maybe even how they show up for their partner or maybe even they've withdrawn from the bedroom activity because they don't feel confident.
We've all been there where we're like all lights off.
Wear a blindfold, you just go so insecure.
It changes everything, especially for a female, we're in our head so much.
She's not gonna enjoy that experience probably.
And then from there, from like a solution standpoint, what do they want to do? Do they wanna start to put some footwork with these changes? Do they want to start to eat better or maybe adjust the weight or something like that? But I think without that first element of the origin story and about them and how it's impacting them, I don't think that transition or that journey, if they so desire, would be as effective if they didn't start to break down some of that stuff at the beginning.
(12:48):
How many of our moms.
Called us overweight or told us not to wear that or grabbed our side, I personally experienced those things.
So that's what I mean when I say digging into where that messaging came from and where we started to identify that our physical appearance was directly tied to our self-worth, our ability to be loved or cared for or seen.
(13:10):
I totally agree.
And I think, women, it's often at this stage where women have the challenges on a personal level and then also professionally as well.
And so they're impacted in both arenas.
When we first introduced you to this podcast, I introduced you as a board certified sexologist, and we made a few jokes about that.
(13:34):
what are the common myths about sex therapy and being a sexologist? Some people can, listen to that word and be like, haha, she's a sexologist.
But obviously you treat real issues and real things that pertain to human beings that can be very challenging.
What are the most common myths that you see and correct ins? Sex therapy.
(13:59):
so to answer the second part about the sexologist piece, and you know the silly title, you're right, it actually is a quite serious profession and there is incredible misconceptions about what I do.
It's really about the organs, your relationship with it, trauma, how you interact with it, right? So if I have somebody who's experiencing premature ejaculation or somebody that's performance anxiety, things like that, That's rooted in psychological symptoms, that's more than likely not actually a medical or biological, presenting issue.
(14:29):
And there's plenty of biological presenting issues as well.
That's a really common one.
And there, there probably isn't a medical reason for that.
Now, of course we would flesh that out.
And the best question for that is, when did this start? Has it always been this way? And often we can tie very quickly to some sort of life event messaging or something that happened where we started to experience that presenting issue.
(14:51):
Again, to.
To dispel the misconception.
It'ss not really teaching about positions or things like that.
I'm happy to talk about those things.
I feel comfortable doing it of course, but it's about issues around desire and sexual functioning, so concerns around how the topic of sex and sex in my life.
(15:12):
Impacts me.
And when we're in a relationship or seeking a relationship, this can grow legs and get bigger and become this really neon colored elephant over time.
And I'll get couples in that maybe are only being intimate once a year, every six months, or whatever it is for them.
That feels.
Off, and we want to talk about that.
(15:33):
And it rarely does get to position kind of conversations or the really sexy stuff you might see on TV when we strip it back.
The lack of intimacy is most often about a symptom of their relationship.
And the woman's emotional safety, the man's emotional safety, their connection, they've grown apart all these things.
So sex is often, due to neglect.
Neglect in ways that aren't.
(15:55):
Physical touch.
So that's a big misconception about it.
So the world of being a board certified clinical sexologist is much more I think biology and anatomical than people would think.
But it applies to all of us, which is one of the reasons I went into this specialty, because there's no one that.
(16:15):
Can't identify with it in some way.
Let me ask you, what inspired you to go into this? We talked a little bit about that and the realization, at least during COVID, of what's important in life.
There was a few things, and one, just being frank was supply and demand.
Living in Dallas, Texas, I didn't feel like there was a big supply and I felt like there was a demand and it's not like I was passing people in a store and aware of some demand.
(16:44):
I just thought, hey, just the people in my personal life and all ages, all races, incredibly diverse, have issues at some point in their life or some sort of presenting something in this space.
It's still a little bit taboo, or not a little bit, it's still a lot of bit taboo, at least in, in my region.
(17:04):
Perhaps in maybe some more northern regions or things like that.
It's got a different attitude towards it.
But here in Dallas, I feel confident saying it's a bit taboo.
And so I felt like there was a space, a gap, and a need in the market to discuss these things.
And I wanted to go about it in a way that wasn't intimidating, right? Like I wanna be.
Approachable easy to talk to all of this instead of it having that OB GYN or that white office that, you sit on the crinkly piece of paper kind of feeling.
(17:35):
Let me ask you what do you find is taboo in this profession, at least in Texas or in Dallas? Gosh, just the topic of sex in general is very taboo.
Okay.
People don't want to talk about it.
What I have been so surprised to find is that people will talk to me about it of course, in session.
(17:56):
But will not with their partner.
And when I ask somebody often, how do you feel like your communication is with your partner? What do you think about that? A lot of times they'll say phenomenal.
It's excellent when you talk about everything.
And very commonly when we get to the topic of sex, they actually end up saying, except for that.
Or I don't really talk about that.
Or perhaps they have a homework assignment or something we've agreed on that might benefit them to go home and discuss and they'll report back that, like when it came to jump off that ledge.
(18:24):
They couldn't do it and the fact that they felt like it was alleged to begin with.
So not only is it taboo, societally about sex and it existing, it also seems to be within even these really intimate bubbles, it still carries a little bit of this scariness The guy feeling insecure now that she's introducing this.
I think they're also afraid that if I talk about it now, I'm making it worse because we don't necessarily know where to go with this.
(18:48):
We don't know the solution.
So now if I talk about it, I've just made things more awkward.
The other thing would be right when I'm working with men, that's a difficult position to be in, to come in and say.
I am afraid.
I have performance anxiety.
I am experiencing this.
That goes against everything we've been teaching males forever in the media, right? Which is to be strong, solid, don't fail.
(19:12):
And so for Amanda to feel like at this ultimate test in the bedroom, he's failing.
Or isn't performing how he feels he should be.
Probably something that they're keeping incredibly private.
Are most of your clients self-referrals? do you get your referrals from other clinicians? I would say they are self-referrals and that it's about 50 50 split between men and women.
(19:38):
Surprisingly, yeah, I'd say it's about a 50 50 split.
Okay.
And I didn't answer you earlier on the myth.
Sure, So with the myth not in sex therapy, the myth in sex.
That some of the stuff is that, newness, novelty, it always needs to be passionate.
It always needs to be fiery.
That's a big myth.
The 10 year sex is not happening.
(20:01):
Based on something really spicy and exciting, likely that is being based on the small moments on a day-to-day basis that your partner makes you feel, seen or heard or protected or cared for.
So at first that chemistry that spark is a lot of fun and great, but what sustains.
What creates consistency over time from the bedroom side of things is not the things in the beginning that contribute to it, which is really confusing and really surprising.
(20:31):
Another thing that's a myth is that performance equals intimacy or performance equals better intimacy.
if I could just zap everybody's performance and say stop doing that, I think that everybody could benefit.
So that's a big misconception.
And then we all know the one about watching porn and trying to make that translate.
That's back to the whole performative side of things.
Big myth that performance, some of the most sugar-free, vanilla, simple stuff, right? Can be equally, if not better than that other thing.
(20:58):
instead, I would invite you to focus on more of the psychological items which is getting closer to your partner, getting investing in your partner carrying, showing up in the way, speaking their love languages, the other forms of intimacy, and see actually if that moves the needle a little bit more.
You had mentioned something about, people feeling in a disconnected state, perhaps lonely.
(21:19):
They're focused on their kids, their family, and perhaps they have lost touch with their friends or, society in general.
And that is, compounding on the loneliness for our listeners.
Who are wondering how can I be connected again? what do you recommend to your patients so that they don't feel so lonely and shut And I just wanna clarify, when you say feel connected again, do you mean to their partner, both to their partner and then to the world? I think women at least sometimes feel that their husbands or partners need to.
(21:55):
Provide them everything.
that psychological connection, they need to be, they need to understand everything.
And when they don't they often feel like, okay, I don't have anyone.
And if that connection with their friends or a group of people is not there, I think there's more pressure on their partner.
(22:17):
And that it can affect the relationship.
Please tell me if I'm incorrect or not.
It's been a really long time.
So something I talked about was that there's been this shift that I've just anecdotally observed where, we see the posts that are like, I married my best friend.
My entire world, my, my accountant, my, this, and the partner is supposed to be absolutely everything.
(22:44):
And over time we may isolate to be really relying on them.
For meeting every emotional need that we have and all those other needs as well in life, and we wanna be really careful about that.
We do want to put our eggs in multiple baskets and diversify some of those emotional needs being met.
Specific about platonic love that you know, really has its place and that needs to also be happening along while you have romantic love as well.
(23:12):
Things like that are the community, the pie of life that, we discuss looking at, what's my personal identity without my partner? What are my interests, what are my hobbies? All of that, right? As far as helping with some of the loneliness, some of the withdraw one, let's go over where things sit, because I bet if you're feeling really lonely and if you're feeling withdrawn and we take a look at these things, some of those pieces are gonna be barren, they're gonna be empty, they're gonna be gray, right? One, that's a great framework for us to start at.
(23:41):
The other piece I would say would be stabilizing stress.
When we are in stress, when we are in fight or flight, when our cortisol levels are up, the whole thing is thrown out of whack.
So forget even bedroom stuff, right? Like ability to communicate your performance at work, your sense of self, your memory, recall, ability to retain new information.
(24:02):
It impacts so much.
I'm all about science.
I'm all about the brain.
I'm not a woo kind of person, and I'm telling you, it is true what everyone preaches about stress, having these incredible consequences.
Yeah.
So for someone that is facing loneliness and withdraw.
let's talk about your stress.
Let's talk about your cortisol levels.
Where are we getting the stress from and what can we do to stabilize that? Yes.
(24:24):
And sleep as well.
But that ties into the whole stress conversation.
that would be a fantastic, very tangible first step.
Yeah.
That's great.
I think, it's something that I see in a lot of my patients, whether they're married or not, that loneliness factor.
And so I think that was really useful information.
for your patients who are single, what, especially with women.
(24:50):
High achieving, and maybe I'm asking this for myself, although I'm not single.
What patterns do you see in those women and how do you help them break the loop? Perhaps they're seeking a relationship where they feel frustrated because they're not finding the right person.
(25:11):
Yeah, this is such a great topic and has been, an issue that's really come to the forefront of media for a little bit now, but not near long enough.
societal shifts happen in big extreme shifts of this pendulum, and then eventually it settles a little bit more in the middle, We're far from settling in the middle where women are like, okay, I've gotta take my power back.
I've gotta be high functioning.
(25:31):
I've gotta make this place for myself.
I've gotta find my voice.
And those are gorgeous things, and I love that movement.
Love it.
Of course, I do.
However, am I witnessing a lot of consequences when it comes to romantic partnerships, gender roles? So on and so forth.
The loneliness, the withdraw as a result, perhaps that pendulum big swing right now.
(25:52):
Yes, I am.
So some of the things that I see are that when you have a high achieving women is really the better word, they then over function in the relationship.
When one party over functions, female or male, irrelevant.
But let's say for the sake of this conversation, the female, the other party in an over functional relationship will then under function.
So their polarization, their dichotomy, actually.
(26:13):
Widens.
So the more I go up, the more perhaps I'm nagging or swooping in and doing the dishes when I'm exhausted because he hasn't done them yet, the less he actually will swoop in and do those dishes.
This makes no sense, right? This feels very confusing, feels counterintuitive.
So one we wanna talk about how are you showing up in a relationship if you are in one or partnership? From a functional standpoint, like what does it look like whenever stuff isn't getting done, et cetera.
(26:37):
Or when you go to, have that conflict or conversations with someone, but also for the high functioning women and the ones that are not in a relationship, right? There are some patterns that can be found commonly.
One we love to rescue, right? So we could meet that guy and be like, I can save this because that's what I do.
I'm really good at keeping plates spinning, figuring stuff out.
(26:59):
I'm great at it.
So we tend to have a little bit of a rescuer mentality, and that is the antithesis for creating authentic, deep connection, because that's not really a place of authenticity.
You're not faking it, but that's not you showing up as you're totally raw, honest self.
Got this sort of skew to your data where it's going, okay, this isn't where I want it to be, but I can see the strategy I can implement here and the things that could change and fix, and I see these red flags, but feel like I can fix that too, or it'll be okay over time or it'll work itself out.
(27:31):
That's what happens when I say the rescuing mentality.
Those are the conversations you have with yourself often consciously.
And so you can see how, if we're starting a connection with that mentality already, uhoh like we're gonna be.
We're gonna be stuff is gonna be not so great from the start.
Yeah the, I often deal with these kind of questions, believe it or not, though I'm an internist.
(27:51):
I do have a lot of women who ask me these kind of questions perhaps because I function as their therapist as well.
There's such a lack of, at least in New Jersey, New York, people are scrambling for.
Good quality therapist.
So I often field a lot of these questions and for my patients who are seeking relationships, I feel we always talk about red flags.
(28:18):
What to, watch out for what should raise your awareness that this is, this may not be the ideal partner.
Perhaps you can educate us.
Maybe share some red flags that we should be looking out for in a partner, but also some green flags as well.
On the red flag piece the ability and they tie into each other.
(28:41):
'cause I'd be saying the opposite for the green flag.
So maybe I'll just turn green flags in, so on the green flag piece, I talk a lot about how early chemistry.
It's spicy, it's passionate, it's sexy.
You know when our phone lights up and we see their name, we have a little bit of that feeling.
It's intoxicating.
Quite literally.
That is dopamine.
Yeah.
And so be aware of that.
And it's a beautiful thing, right? Our brain is doing its job of making us interested in other people and bringing us and drawing a sense, a good job brain, but the real predictors.
(29:12):
Of compatibility are actually quite boring and very reliable.
Reliability itself specifically, right? So for green flag pieces it's not, the most fun stuff, but after conflict, what happens, right? And is that person emotionally regulated? Emotional regulation isn't necessarily something you can train in or coach and develop someone into.
(29:37):
As far as being the romantic partner, that's gonna be really hard.
So literally what I mean is I'm having conflict with somebody.
They're flying off the handle.
I feel like we could be managing this in a more thoughtful way so that fight dies down, let's say.
Next time, I think they'll be more calm or I'll show up really calm.
They'll wanna model and mirror that it will bring this mood to this space.
(29:59):
That's not really how emotional regulation works.
So when you're seeing a lack of emotional regulation.
That is a big concern.
That's gonna be something that party is probably gonna have to work on and master on their own.
You can be a part of their journey, of course, but that is a demon in their, that's a thing in their closet that they're gonna have to work on.
(30:19):
So when you've got a partner that, on the opposite end, is very emotionally regulated during conflict, which doesn't mean agreeing.
It doesn't mean someone is just totally calm and zen.
No.
I just mean, we're able to have productive conversations, and after that conflict dies down, you can repair that rupture, right? We take accountability for the actions.
We admit our faults, and then you move forward, right? Because the conflict is inevitable.
(30:42):
I never work with my couples and try to avoid conflict.
That's gonna happen, especially when they stop seeing me.
So it's about when the conflict is happening, how are we managing that? And then when the conflict calms down.
Then how do we manage that? So that's a huge part of it, is the emotional regulation.
Can't stress that enough.
The other things would be if your partner is curious about you, I think that's a beautiful green flag, right? This partner is genuinely interested in my inner world.
(31:08):
They want to honestly know what's it like in my head? What is my work life like or what was an experience like for me? So taking a genuine interest in that.
Curiosity and you can observe that in the first few months, I think is a great Green flag, and I don't hear that talked about too much.
Okay.
And then you have mentioned some with the red flags, but I feel like we are all imperfect in certain ways and sometimes I think when the red flags show up, ANU number of us can be eager to be like, okay, done.
(31:43):
I'm out.
No.
Yeah.
And I agree.
we gotta rein it in.
We're doing the pendulum thing.
Yeah.
Where we're like, the women are going, we're sick of X.
We're setting these boundaries high.
This bar is gonna be high.
I'm not moving from it.
And I see the beauty in this.
I do wonder if we're doing that big whoop, to big course.
Correct.
And then, maybe we'll come somewhere in the middle.
(32:04):
But you're right, we all, especially dating older, right? A lot of us are on second marriages, third marriages or divorce or what have you.
Or they have kids.
Yes.
They're bringing to the table some history, some insecurities.
Absolutely some classic red flags.
Back to our green flag conversation.
Can you hang in there with that conflict? Can you see how that goes? And repair the rupture afterwards.
(32:27):
Incredible green flag.
But yes, I agree.
We're getting a little bit hasty in.
Over emphasizing our red flags as being, non-negotiables and non-starters.
And, maybe we wanna be vigilant about some important things to us, but not necessarily use them in a way where we will stop engaging with someone or speaking to them, or even be open-minded to a second date or a third date, something like that.
(32:52):
Perhaps you can also talk about other types of patients that you see that you've been able to help them with.
Sure.
So other types of patients might be those experiencing PMDD was just premenstrual dysphoric disorder.
this is a situation where a woman experiences extreme PMS.
(33:14):
It is not what you are accustomed to hearing about, a craving chocolate or feeling a little bit irritable or, a little bit out of self.
Things like that, right? That's all standard.
This is where we're probably having suicidal ideations.
We might be quitting our job during this period when if you asked us, a week later or, we were back at baseline a week later, that would be something that we feel like we would've never done.
(33:36):
Something else might be, the performance anxiety.
Those that are experiencing any kind of ed.
And then also, pelvic floor issues.
And then trauma assault.
we talked about really good stuff.
We can talk about dating apps.
a huge part of, what people are talking about and concerned about and experiencing is dating app fatigue.
Yeah, absolutely.
(33:57):
it feels like a loop of rejection, of measurement this bizarre human experiment in.
How good am I? Yeah.
Let me see what the market says.
Yeah.
When that's not really what it's doing, but that's what it feels like, right? Yeah.
So quite literally, if someone's reviewing you and making a decision on being even open to talking with you.
(34:20):
Not even meeting you, right? Just a chat or a message that I now know my market value.
I now know my worth.
That's really scary.
And absolutely that's gonna have some consequences.
I don't blame the apps.
I think they're doing their job right.
They're giving us opportunities that people would not have in their everyday lives.
(34:42):
So that's beautiful and great.
We're experiencing them in a way where we are perceiving and internalizing our results as a reflection of our worth or our value, that's.
That's a problem.
Yeah.
So I see fatigue, stemming from that.
Yeah, absolutely.
it's something that my patients do.
Tell me about typically the younger ones or if they're newly divorced and they're seeking, another companion often the comments there are, it's a, Whole new world that I've never experienced before.
(35:13):
And it's almost comparable to the work world when you're entering, into a new job and you feel like you keep getting pushed out or, rejected.
From certain positions perhaps because of your age.
So yeah, it can be very stressful.
I often guide my patients, and believe it or not, it's worked out twice where I basically ask 'em, what are you seeking? What is it that you're seeking? Is it that you just want a companion, you just want to have fun? Or are you looking to get married? And some of them look at me.
(35:50):
I'm like, are you looking to get married? Because if that's the case, then you should indicate that on your dating information.
And they're like, but nobody's gonna pick me then.
The, what I say is maybe the bulk of people won't pick you, but that right person who's looking for the same thing may and in there were two situations with two separate patients where they ended up getting married because of that dating app.
(36:17):
So a lot of times I feel that we enter these things, It's often like we don't know ourselves well enough to ask, what am I seeking in this situation? And it often becomes more about acceptance about that other person who we don't know, accepting you rather than what we're looking for to begin with.
(36:41):
Yeah, I agree.
And I think that's great advice for your clients because you're right.
The quantity plummets, but the quality.
Skyrockets now.
You know that you have someone where you're not setting yourself up for automatic or default rejection.
By that being your intention, that was kept private.
Now, this person's aware of this information, so it's not gonna be a reason that they feel like you're not.
Compatible So yeah, I agree with you.
(37:04):
And ultimately putting our authentic selves out there, that's what you're saying, And just having a menu, of all these other options are going to motivate anyone to.
Hit that eject button to not stay as long when times get a little bit difficult.
Yeah.
If we didn't feel like there's a million fish in the sea and we have access to them.
(37:28):
Yeah.
If I wanted to go pursue that and put energy into that, and so for those reasons, maybe back to our conversation of.
I'm just not gonna go on that second date or that third date, or it's been a few months and I'm gonna jump ship.
Because yeah we feel like we've got this many of options, So that's absolutely gonna have an impact on how we perceive our energy that we're investing into conflict or resolution or when things get boring, investing in those eight forms of intimacy, things like that to keep this train going it's gonna cost people to jump and that makes sense to me.
(37:58):
So that's another thing that I see as, dating app fatigue and perhaps a byproduct of having that resource.
You mentioned eight forms of intimacy.
Tell us about that.
I speak a lot about the eight forms of intimacy because they really are important for couples in relationships and especially important whenever there's a lull, in the bedroom.
(38:18):
So when we're experiencing a lull in physical intimacy or in the bedroom.
There are seven other forms of intimacy to carry you through those moments.
And odds are they start to pour into the physical or sexual intimacy and boost that, right? So especially for women that often look to be physically intimate.
After they feel connected and seen and understood and cared for, right? So these other seven forms, are not sexual at all, right? So there's physical touch, which is not sexual.
(38:48):
So they're just maybe putting a hand on our shoulder or holding my hand in a grocery store.
Then you've got spiritual connection connecting intellectually, you're watching a show together.
It's like a shared interest and kind of talking about it, gossiping about people.
You take a walk together, something like that, right? these eight forms are very achievable.
They're very realistic.
They don't have to look like taking exotic trips or we're not going to bore this weekend.
(39:12):
They can be much more simple.
But investing in all of those eight is a smart move for any relationship, no matter the stage that you're at.
That's excellent.
I think that's really valuable for our listeners.
'cause we often expect like it's just the physical intimacy, but as you said, there's so many other forms of intimacy that could obviously lead to that physical intimacy in the bedroom.
(39:37):
Yeah.
therapy is not only for being in crisis or when The relationship is to a point where you feel extremely concerned or you've got a foot and a half out the door.
therapy can be a preventative and proactive measure.
It can be a health check, it can be a lot of things that are far from the house being on fire and feeling like things are in crisis.
(39:59):
So that would be my lasting comments about the world of therapy.
Okay.
And if my listeners were to look for you, where can they find.
They can find me on my website, which is just brianna bass.org,
one N-B-R-I-A-N-A Brianna bass.org.
That's the same email, brianna@briannabass.org.
There's a phone number on the website And the socials are Brianna bass therapy are you able to see patients who live outside of Texas or how does that work with you? My patients or clients are in Dallas.
(40:32):
They can be throughout all of Texas, but I strongly prefer in-person.
Therapy.
I'm a big believer in-person therapy.
There is a significant difference in meeting virtually versus meeting in person, just from the rapport that you're able to build the cues that you can observe in the room and that connectivity feeling, that emotion, that energy, all of those things I feel get a little bit compromised with virtual sessions.
(40:58):
if that's your only option, that is way better than not going at all.
but if you do have the choice between the two, there's a significant enough difference in your experience when you're going in person.
so that's what I choose to prioritize.
But I do see people virtually.
if they are in proximity to Dallas, I will strongly encourage them to come into the office.
And don't forget to like, share and review my podcast.
(41:22):
Remember, it's always ladies first on Soma Says.
Let's make a difference one conversation at a time.
Hi, this is Dr.
(00:01):
Soma.
Just a disclaimer, this podcast is for informational purposes only and isn't intended as medical advice.
Always consult with your doctor before making any changes to your diet, exercise, or health regimen.
Let's go to the show.
(00:52):
Welcome to season two of Soma Says.
Where we turn midlife into a masterclass in health.
I'm Dr.
Soma Mandel, and this season we're going deeper, bolder, and more practical than ever.
Today's guest is Brianna Bass, the founder of The Wellness Institute in Dallas, a modern mental health collective built for people who refuse to settle.
(01:14):
Brianna is an LPC Associate and Board certified clinical sexologist with a PhD in progress.
Known for an evidence-based results-driven approach that helps clients experience a real before and after in therapy.
Her work spans couples and sex therapy, trauma, anxiety, and the pressures facing high achieving professionals, and she blends the rigor of CBT and emotionally focused therapy and Gottman methods with a sharp understanding of today's swipe right.
(01:47):
Dating culture and workplace burnout before private practice.
She spent over a decade in high caliber corporate environments.
so she speaks the language of ambitious lives and complicated relationships.
If you've ever wondered what truly modern therapy sounds like, empathetic neuroscience, informed and unapologetically practical, you're about to hear it.
(02:13):
Brianna, welcome to Somo Says.
We have Brianna Bass who's joining us today from Dallas, Texas.
And you are a board certified clinical sexologist.
Yes.
Tell us what that is and who and what you treat.
a board certified clinical sexologist, which I, no one asked me.
(02:33):
I didn't name it.
It's a funny title.
It sounds silly or made up almost as sexologist.
But, we just have to think.
There's zoologists, physiologists, geologists, all theologists.
But so I don't just study sex though.
I really study the sexual organs and someone's relationship with sex.
So I treat everything from rape and sexual assault.
To porn addiction.
To somebody that's going through menopause or perimenopause.
(02:56):
I help couples get connected and things like that.
Healing from any kind of trauma like I mentioned.
And then really overall, if you could sum it up, most simply would be focusing on intimacy.
So that does not necessarily mean the act or art of sex.
It could be a number of things, but I work with people who feel like they've lost themselves perhaps in that particular space.
(03:19):
And you originally come from a corporate background.
tell us how you transitioned into this clinical space.
corporate life was something I often say I'm still recovering from.
So I had that classic burnout.
I was very high functioning had a lot of anxiety, I wanted to make it.
And anxiety can masquerade as ambition.
(03:41):
I am incredibly ambitious, don't get me wrong, but I think for a lot of ambitious people.
They are very anxious and burnout is probably not too far from them.
So it can look like incredible commitment to your job, but I do wonder and wanna challenge people to think about that commitment and if behind it is actually fear failure, things like that.
(04:01):
In the corporate world, I felt like I was betraying my authenticity.
And so for those reasons, I decided to make an entire shift.
But I really didn't reinvent myself.
I went actually back to my original roots because doing what I do now is my roots, starting from Bachelor of Science in college.
COVID was a big catalyst for kind of tripling down on this particular path.
Like a lot of people that were like, wait a minute.
(04:24):
I don't think I'm doing things right, or I'm very unhappy, or all of our priorities got re-shifted during COVID And then when we thought, oh my gosh, life is so delicate.
It could be taken away at any second.
We're hearing about thousands of people dying on a day-to-day basis.
We all have this moment of, oh my goodness, let me take a step back and reassess what my life looks like and my priorities.
(04:46):
And I did the same thing.
I've gone on to get my master's in clinical mental health since my bachelor of science, and then my PhD is in clinical sexology, and that's the board certified clinical sexologist piece.
Okay.
And so how long have you had this practice? Was it since COVID or before that? And then the corporate background was in addition to the hard education, the.
(05:08):
The first world, firsthand, boots on the ground in the field, education as far as human behavior, and that particular type of clientele that I often gravitate to or gravitate towards me, which is that, hey, I want more from life.
I feel like I'm throwing things at it.
I listen to podcasts, I have an audible membership or things like that.
I heard this thing on TikTok, but for some reason they're still feeling stuck.
(05:33):
you mentioned some of the clinical scenarios that you do see and treat.
during perimenopause and menopause, libido, sex intimacy can all be factors in a relationship.
how do you approach that patient and what are the steps that you usually take with her and or their partner? perimenopause and menopause in general is tough.
(06:03):
I have all the empathy and all the reverence in the world for that.
It's absolutely critical.
And that time in our life, especially as women, we're already faced with.
So much pressure.
We're already feeling, can I keep up with the changing world? We're aging.
It's difficult.
So then to have these biological factors and physiological factors at play inside of us that we didn't choose, we didn't really have a say in and we can't control.
(06:26):
That's hard.
That's really hard.
So you're feeling your libido drop, or it could be vaginal dryness or just brain fog or a lack of.
Sense of self or feeling out of touch with who you typically are.
So if I were to see someone who is presenting with some of those things, I'd want to talk with them about, psychoeducation on what I just said, and filling them in on how it's normal.
(06:46):
So let me normalize for you all the things that you're experiencing.
'cause I get a lot of people that say I'm broken.
I have husbands that send their wives in and say, can you fix her? But first off, let's talk about what's actually going on here.
And then I also wanna talk about the medical aspect as far as them consulting with an ob, GYN or someone that can, get the prescriptions going and do the hormonal testing and things like that.
And then we also wanna talk about their lifestyle, right? So what does that lifestyle look like? Where else do you feel like these symptoms or potential symptoms are causing you to experience issues or unpleasantness? So we're talking about a combination of psychoeducation, figuring out what's going on, sifting through their symptoms, the medical aspect, and then the lifestyle aspect.
(07:29):
And those are the first things I would start to go over with someone as we talked about perimenopause or menopause.
And so you work closely with either the primary care physician or patient's gynecologist or perhaps endocrinologist.
So it sounds like it's a multifactorial approach that you take because there's an imbalance in the hormones, which can impact a woman during this time.
(07:57):
Where do you see therapy and lifestyle? How do you incorporate that into the treatment of your patients? When I talk about lifestyle, I'm talking about things like sleep, diet.
Physical activity, their community.
So do they have interests in hobbies? Their partner, if they're in a relationship, and if they're not, do they desire to be? So it's also about isolation, and that sort of goes to the community piece of it or withdraw.
(08:27):
We wanna look at all of these things, I call it the pie of life and identify how's our lifestyle score in these different areas.
Maybe not that day.
But then we're talking about physical security, physical insecurity.
How do I feel about myself, about my body, right? And then community that can spawn a conversation about.
I'm really lonely.
I feel withdraw and isolated.
(08:48):
I don't really have a great friend group or someone I outlets.
I feel like I can confide in and things like that, which we all have come to learn over the last five, 10 years that, that is, they call it the new smoking is loneliness, right? So we wanna definitely talk about community and then the sleep and what we're eating and that kind of thing.
it's very possible that they feel like that relationship is toxic or causing them a lot of pain and a lot of distress.
(09:11):
And then combine that with someone who, let's say, is facing something like menopause.
What a storm that this woman is going through, where she also doesn't feel like in her home she's getting the support she needs or feels safe or like it's a non-judgmental space to say, Hey, this is actually where I'm at in life and this is what I'm experiencing.
So when I talk about lifestyle it's about, six or seven categories that we.
(09:33):
chat about we're like, Hey, my community sucks.
My community sucks because I've lost myself.
So I've decided just to stay home most nights.
I don't have interest in hobbies.
I just take care of the kids all day.
Or all I do is work and then I go home and watch TV or I doom scroll, and then I groundhog date and.
Start over the next day.
Common stuff, right? So I think that talking about the lifestyle in all those different categories is a fabulous framework for, okay, where do we jump off from here? One of the things that I see in my office with women who are in this stage, perimenopause and menopause, is they often feel very down about their appearance.
(10:13):
Perhaps it's weight gain, perhaps it's just their body changing, their skin becomes looser, all sorts of stuff.
How do you help women with these kind of issues? First, I think we'd identify why that's so important to them.
Where does that messaging come from? I'm not debating that it's not important.
(10:33):
That'd be ridiculous of me to say, oh, just don't care about the way that you look I'm the last person to say that, I'm incredibly vain, unfortunately.
If they say I've been taught, or the world around me, society is telling me, oh my gosh, I'll be left behind.
My partner won't find me sexy anymore.
Maybe at the grocery store I don't get looks anymore.
Instead I just get passed up.
(10:55):
So those things I wanna dig into.
What does that emotional impact, what does it feel like to be in that skin that's a little bit more loose? What's it like to look at yourself in the mirror and to see these changes? Because it can be very painful and it can make you have a little bit of an identity crisis.
And be contributing again to that pie.
So the first thing would be to breathe life into the, to the issue itself.
(11:18):
To discuss it and to call it out, because I might be the only person that someone's able to say it's not something that you typically say to dinner table, or even with girlfriends sometimes, right to say.
I feel horrible about myself.
A lot of times.
Also, they believe it's within their control, so there's a lot of shame and guilt.
I don't do enough.
I don't do what I need to do.
(11:39):
I don't eat right, or I don't work out.
So now we have shame and guilt in there, right? And we feel incredibly responsible, and it just turns into this messy kind of cycle.
But yeah, first and foremost would be to address the emotions associated with that body image and that shame and where those messages may have originated from, and how they're impacting them, navigating their life today, and contributing into, insecurity.
(12:01):
Maybe even how they show up for their partner or maybe even they've withdrawn from the bedroom activity because they don't feel confident.
We've all been there where we're like all lights off.
Wear a blindfold, you just go so insecure.
It changes everything, especially for a female, we're in our head so much.
She's not gonna enjoy that experience probably.
And then from there, from like a solution standpoint, what do they want to do? Do they wanna start to put some footwork with these changes? Do they want to start to eat better or maybe adjust the weight or something like that? But I think without that first element of the origin story and about them and how it's impacting them, I don't think that transition or that journey, if they so desire, would be as effective if they didn't start to break down some of that stuff at the beginning.
(12:48):
How many of our moms.
Called us overweight or told us not to wear that or grabbed our side, I personally experienced those things.
So that's what I mean when I say digging into where that messaging came from and where we started to identify that our physical appearance was directly tied to our self-worth, our ability to be loved or cared for or seen.
(13:10):
I totally agree.
And I think, women, it's often at this stage where women have the challenges on a personal level and then also professionally as well.
And so they're impacted in both arenas.
When we first introduced you to this podcast, I introduced you as a board certified sexologist, and we made a few jokes about that.
(13:34):
what are the common myths about sex therapy and being a sexologist? Some people can, listen to that word and be like, haha, she's a sexologist.
But obviously you treat real issues and real things that pertain to human beings that can be very challenging.
What are the most common myths that you see and correct ins? Sex therapy.
(13:59):
so to answer the second part about the sexologist piece, and you know the silly title, you're right, it actually is a quite serious profession and there is incredible misconceptions about what I do.
It's really about the organs, your relationship with it, trauma, how you interact with it, right? So if I have somebody who's experiencing premature ejaculation or somebody that's performance anxiety, things like that, That's rooted in psychological symptoms, that's more than likely not actually a medical or biological, presenting issue.
(14:29):
And there's plenty of biological presenting issues as well.
That's a really common one.
And there, there probably isn't a medical reason for that.
Now, of course we would flesh that out.
And the best question for that is, when did this start? Has it always been this way? And often we can tie very quickly to some sort of life event messaging or something that happened where we started to experience that presenting issue.
(14:51):
Again, to.
To dispel the misconception.
It'ss not really teaching about positions or things like that.
I'm happy to talk about those things.
I feel comfortable doing it of course, but it's about issues around desire and sexual functioning, so concerns around how the topic of sex and sex in my life.
(15:12):
Impacts me.
And when we're in a relationship or seeking a relationship, this can grow legs and get bigger and become this really neon colored elephant over time.
And I'll get couples in that maybe are only being intimate once a year, every six months, or whatever it is for them.
That feels.
Off, and we want to talk about that.
(15:33):
And it rarely does get to position kind of conversations or the really sexy stuff you might see on TV when we strip it back.
The lack of intimacy is most often about a symptom of their relationship.
And the woman's emotional safety, the man's emotional safety, their connection, they've grown apart all these things.
So sex is often, due to neglect.
Neglect in ways that aren't.
(15:55):
Physical touch.
So that's a big misconception about it.
So the world of being a board certified clinical sexologist is much more I think biology and anatomical than people would think.
But it applies to all of us, which is one of the reasons I went into this specialty, because there's no one that.
(16:15):
Can't identify with it in some way.
Let me ask you, what inspired you to go into this? We talked a little bit about that and the realization, at least during COVID, of what's important in life.
There was a few things, and one, just being frank was supply and demand.
Living in Dallas, Texas, I didn't feel like there was a big supply and I felt like there was a demand and it's not like I was passing people in a store and aware of some demand.
(16:44):
I just thought, hey, just the people in my personal life and all ages, all races, incredibly diverse, have issues at some point in their life or some sort of presenting something in this space.
It's still a little bit taboo, or not a little bit, it's still a lot of bit taboo, at least in, in my region.
(17:04):
Perhaps in maybe some more northern regions or things like that.
It's got a different attitude towards it.
But here in Dallas, I feel confident saying it's a bit taboo.
And so I felt like there was a space, a gap, and a need in the market to discuss these things.
And I wanted to go about it in a way that wasn't intimidating, right? Like I wanna be.
Approachable easy to talk to all of this instead of it having that OB GYN or that white office that, you sit on the crinkly piece of paper kind of feeling.
(17:35):
Let me ask you what do you find is taboo in this profession, at least in Texas or in Dallas? Gosh, just the topic of sex in general is very taboo.
Okay.
People don't want to talk about it.
What I have been so surprised to find is that people will talk to me about it of course, in session.
(17:56):
But will not with their partner.
And when I ask somebody often, how do you feel like your communication is with your partner? What do you think about that? A lot of times they'll say phenomenal.
It's excellent when you talk about everything.
And very commonly when we get to the topic of sex, they actually end up saying, except for that.
Or I don't really talk about that.
Or perhaps they have a homework assignment or something we've agreed on that might benefit them to go home and discuss and they'll report back that, like when it came to jump off that ledge.
(18:24):
They couldn't do it and the fact that they felt like it was alleged to begin with.
So not only is it taboo, societally about sex and it existing, it also seems to be within even these really intimate bubbles, it still carries a little bit of this scariness The guy feeling insecure now that she's introducing this.
I think they're also afraid that if I talk about it now, I'm making it worse because we don't necessarily know where to go with this.
(18:48):
We don't know the solution.
So now if I talk about it, I've just made things more awkward.
The other thing would be right when I'm working with men, that's a difficult position to be in, to come in and say.
I am afraid.
I have performance anxiety.
I am experiencing this.
That goes against everything we've been teaching males forever in the media, right? Which is to be strong, solid, don't fail.
(19:12):
And so for Amanda to feel like at this ultimate test in the bedroom, he's failing.
Or isn't performing how he feels he should be.
Probably something that they're keeping incredibly private.
Are most of your clients self-referrals? do you get your referrals from other clinicians? I would say they are self-referrals and that it's about 50 50 split between men and women.
(19:38):
Surprisingly, yeah, I'd say it's about a 50 50 split.
Okay.
And I didn't answer you earlier on the myth.
Sure, So with the myth not in sex therapy, the myth in sex.
That some of the stuff is that, newness, novelty, it always needs to be passionate.
It always needs to be fiery.
That's a big myth.
The 10 year sex is not happening.
(20:01):
Based on something really spicy and exciting, likely that is being based on the small moments on a day-to-day basis that your partner makes you feel, seen or heard or protected or cared for.
So at first that chemistry that spark is a lot of fun and great, but what sustains.
What creates consistency over time from the bedroom side of things is not the things in the beginning that contribute to it, which is really confusing and really surprising.
(20:31):
Another thing that's a myth is that performance equals intimacy or performance equals better intimacy.
if I could just zap everybody's performance and say stop doing that, I think that everybody could benefit.
So that's a big misconception.
And then we all know the one about watching porn and trying to make that translate.
That's back to the whole performative side of things.
Big myth that performance, some of the most sugar-free, vanilla, simple stuff, right? Can be equally, if not better than that other thing.
(20:58):
instead, I would invite you to focus on more of the psychological items which is getting closer to your partner, getting investing in your partner carrying, showing up in the way, speaking their love languages, the other forms of intimacy, and see actually if that moves the needle a little bit more.
You had mentioned something about, people feeling in a disconnected state, perhaps lonely.
(21:19):
They're focused on their kids, their family, and perhaps they have lost touch with their friends or, society in general.
And that is, compounding on the loneliness for our listeners.
Who are wondering how can I be connected again? what do you recommend to your patients so that they don't feel so lonely and shut And I just wanna clarify, when you say feel connected again, do you mean to their partner, both to their partner and then to the world? I think women at least sometimes feel that their husbands or partners need to.
(21:55):
Provide them everything.
that psychological connection, they need to be, they need to understand everything.
And when they don't they often feel like, okay, I don't have anyone.
And if that connection with their friends or a group of people is not there, I think there's more pressure on their partner.
(22:17):
And that it can affect the relationship.
Please tell me if I'm incorrect or not.
It's been a really long time.
So something I talked about was that there's been this shift that I've just anecdotally observed where, we see the posts that are like, I married my best friend.
My entire world, my, my accountant, my, this, and the partner is supposed to be absolutely everything.
(22:44):
And over time we may isolate to be really relying on them.
For meeting every emotional need that we have and all those other needs as well in life, and we wanna be really careful about that.
We do want to put our eggs in multiple baskets and diversify some of those emotional needs being met.
Specific about platonic love that you know, really has its place and that needs to also be happening along while you have romantic love as well.
(23:12):
Things like that are the community, the pie of life that, we discuss looking at, what's my personal identity without my partner? What are my interests, what are my hobbies? All of that, right? As far as helping with some of the loneliness, some of the withdraw one, let's go over where things sit, because I bet if you're feeling really lonely and if you're feeling withdrawn and we take a look at these things, some of those pieces are gonna be barren, they're gonna be empty, they're gonna be gray, right? One, that's a great framework for us to start at.
(23:41):
The other piece I would say would be stabilizing stress.
When we are in stress, when we are in fight or flight, when our cortisol levels are up, the whole thing is thrown out of whack.
So forget even bedroom stuff, right? Like ability to communicate your performance at work, your sense of self, your memory, recall, ability to retain new information.
(24:02):
It impacts so much.
I'm all about science.
I'm all about the brain.
I'm not a woo kind of person, and I'm telling you, it is true what everyone preaches about stress, having these incredible consequences.
Yeah.
So for someone that is facing loneliness and withdraw.
let's talk about your stress.
Let's talk about your cortisol levels.
Where are we getting the stress from and what can we do to stabilize that? Yes.
(24:24):
And sleep as well.
But that ties into the whole stress conversation.
that would be a fantastic, very tangible first step.
Yeah.
That's great.
I think, it's something that I see in a lot of my patients, whether they're married or not, that loneliness factor.
And so I think that was really useful information.
for your patients who are single, what, especially with women.
(24:50):
High achieving, and maybe I'm asking this for myself, although I'm not single.
What patterns do you see in those women and how do you help them break the loop? Perhaps they're seeking a relationship where they feel frustrated because they're not finding the right person.
(25:11):
Yeah, this is such a great topic and has been, an issue that's really come to the forefront of media for a little bit now, but not near long enough.
societal shifts happen in big extreme shifts of this pendulum, and then eventually it settles a little bit more in the middle, We're far from settling in the middle where women are like, okay, I've gotta take my power back.
I've gotta be high functioning.
(25:31):
I've gotta make this place for myself.
I've gotta find my voice.
And those are gorgeous things, and I love that movement.
Love it.
Of course, I do.
However, am I witnessing a lot of consequences when it comes to romantic partnerships, gender roles? So on and so forth.
The loneliness, the withdraw as a result, perhaps that pendulum big swing right now.
(25:52):
Yes, I am.
So some of the things that I see are that when you have a high achieving women is really the better word, they then over function in the relationship.
When one party over functions, female or male, irrelevant.
But let's say for the sake of this conversation, the female, the other party in an over functional relationship will then under function.
So their polarization, their dichotomy, actually.
(26:13):
Widens.
So the more I go up, the more perhaps I'm nagging or swooping in and doing the dishes when I'm exhausted because he hasn't done them yet, the less he actually will swoop in and do those dishes.
This makes no sense, right? This feels very confusing, feels counterintuitive.
So one we wanna talk about how are you showing up in a relationship if you are in one or partnership? From a functional standpoint, like what does it look like whenever stuff isn't getting done, et cetera.
(26:37):
Or when you go to, have that conflict or conversations with someone, but also for the high functioning women and the ones that are not in a relationship, right? There are some patterns that can be found commonly.
One we love to rescue, right? So we could meet that guy and be like, I can save this because that's what I do.
I'm really good at keeping plates spinning, figuring stuff out.
(26:59):
I'm great at it.
So we tend to have a little bit of a rescuer mentality, and that is the antithesis for creating authentic, deep connection, because that's not really a place of authenticity.
You're not faking it, but that's not you showing up as you're totally raw, honest self.
Got this sort of skew to your data where it's going, okay, this isn't where I want it to be, but I can see the strategy I can implement here and the things that could change and fix, and I see these red flags, but feel like I can fix that too, or it'll be okay over time or it'll work itself out.
(27:31):
That's what happens when I say the rescuing mentality.
Those are the conversations you have with yourself often consciously.
And so you can see how, if we're starting a connection with that mentality already, uhoh like we're gonna be.
We're gonna be stuff is gonna be not so great from the start.
Yeah the, I often deal with these kind of questions, believe it or not, though I'm an internist.
(27:51):
I do have a lot of women who ask me these kind of questions perhaps because I function as their therapist as well.
There's such a lack of, at least in New Jersey, New York, people are scrambling for.
Good quality therapist.
So I often field a lot of these questions and for my patients who are seeking relationships, I feel we always talk about red flags.
(28:18):
What to, watch out for what should raise your awareness that this is, this may not be the ideal partner.
Perhaps you can educate us.
Maybe share some red flags that we should be looking out for in a partner, but also some green flags as well.
On the red flag piece the ability and they tie into each other.
(28:41):
'cause I'd be saying the opposite for the green flag.
So maybe I'll just turn green flags in, so on the green flag piece, I talk a lot about how early chemistry.
It's spicy, it's passionate, it's sexy.
You know when our phone lights up and we see their name, we have a little bit of that feeling.
It's intoxicating.
Quite literally.
That is dopamine.
Yeah.
And so be aware of that.
And it's a beautiful thing, right? Our brain is doing its job of making us interested in other people and bringing us and drawing a sense, a good job brain, but the real predictors.
(29:12):
Of compatibility are actually quite boring and very reliable.
Reliability itself specifically, right? So for green flag pieces it's not, the most fun stuff, but after conflict, what happens, right? And is that person emotionally regulated? Emotional regulation isn't necessarily something you can train in or coach and develop someone into.
(29:37):
As far as being the romantic partner, that's gonna be really hard.
So literally what I mean is I'm having conflict with somebody.
They're flying off the handle.
I feel like we could be managing this in a more thoughtful way so that fight dies down, let's say.
Next time, I think they'll be more calm or I'll show up really calm.
They'll wanna model and mirror that it will bring this mood to this space.
(29:59):
That's not really how emotional regulation works.
So when you're seeing a lack of emotional regulation.
That is a big concern.
That's gonna be something that party is probably gonna have to work on and master on their own.
You can be a part of their journey, of course, but that is a demon in their, that's a thing in their closet that they're gonna have to work on.
(30:19):
So when you've got a partner that, on the opposite end, is very emotionally regulated during conflict, which doesn't mean agreeing.
It doesn't mean someone is just totally calm and zen.
No.
I just mean, we're able to have productive conversations, and after that conflict dies down, you can repair that rupture, right? We take accountability for the actions.
We admit our faults, and then you move forward, right? Because the conflict is inevitable.
(30:42):
I never work with my couples and try to avoid conflict.
That's gonna happen, especially when they stop seeing me.
So it's about when the conflict is happening, how are we managing that? And then when the conflict calms down.
Then how do we manage that? So that's a huge part of it, is the emotional regulation.
Can't stress that enough.
The other things would be if your partner is curious about you, I think that's a beautiful green flag, right? This partner is genuinely interested in my inner world.
(31:08):
They want to honestly know what's it like in my head? What is my work life like or what was an experience like for me? So taking a genuine interest in that.
Curiosity and you can observe that in the first few months, I think is a great Green flag, and I don't hear that talked about too much.
Okay.
And then you have mentioned some with the red flags, but I feel like we are all imperfect in certain ways and sometimes I think when the red flags show up, ANU number of us can be eager to be like, okay, done.
(31:43):
I'm out.
No.
Yeah.
And I agree.
we gotta rein it in.
We're doing the pendulum thing.
Yeah.
Where we're like, the women are going, we're sick of X.
We're setting these boundaries high.
This bar is gonna be high.
I'm not moving from it.
And I see the beauty in this.
I do wonder if we're doing that big whoop, to big course.
Correct.
And then, maybe we'll come somewhere in the middle.
(32:04):
But you're right, we all, especially dating older, right? A lot of us are on second marriages, third marriages or divorce or what have you.
Or they have kids.
Yes.
They're bringing to the table some history, some insecurities.
Absolutely some classic red flags.
Back to our green flag conversation.
Can you hang in there with that conflict? Can you see how that goes? And repair the rupture afterwards.
(32:27):
Incredible green flag.
But yes, I agree.
We're getting a little bit hasty in.
Over emphasizing our red flags as being, non-negotiables and non-starters.
And, maybe we wanna be vigilant about some important things to us, but not necessarily use them in a way where we will stop engaging with someone or speaking to them, or even be open-minded to a second date or a third date, something like that.
(32:52):
Perhaps you can also talk about other types of patients that you see that you've been able to help them with.
Sure.
So other types of patients might be those experiencing PMDD was just premenstrual dysphoric disorder.
this is a situation where a woman experiences extreme PMS.
(33:14):
It is not what you are accustomed to hearing about, a craving chocolate or feeling a little bit irritable or, a little bit out of self.
Things like that, right? That's all standard.
This is where we're probably having suicidal ideations.
We might be quitting our job during this period when if you asked us, a week later or, we were back at baseline a week later, that would be something that we feel like we would've never done.
(33:36):
Something else might be, the performance anxiety.
Those that are experiencing any kind of ed.
And then also, pelvic floor issues.
And then trauma assault.
we talked about really good stuff.
We can talk about dating apps.
a huge part of, what people are talking about and concerned about and experiencing is dating app fatigue.
Yeah, absolutely.
(33:57):
it feels like a loop of rejection, of measurement this bizarre human experiment in.
How good am I? Yeah.
Let me see what the market says.
Yeah.
When that's not really what it's doing, but that's what it feels like, right? Yeah.
So quite literally, if someone's reviewing you and making a decision on being even open to talking with you.
(34:20):
Not even meeting you, right? Just a chat or a message that I now know my market value.
I now know my worth.
That's really scary.
And absolutely that's gonna have some consequences.
I don't blame the apps.
I think they're doing their job right.
They're giving us opportunities that people would not have in their everyday lives.
(34:42):
So that's beautiful and great.
We're experiencing them in a way where we are perceiving and internalizing our results as a reflection of our worth or our value, that's.
That's a problem.
Yeah.
So I see fatigue, stemming from that.
Yeah, absolutely.
it's something that my patients do.
Tell me about typically the younger ones or if they're newly divorced and they're seeking, another companion often the comments there are, it's a, Whole new world that I've never experienced before.
(35:13):
And it's almost comparable to the work world when you're entering, into a new job and you feel like you keep getting pushed out or, rejected.
From certain positions perhaps because of your age.
So yeah, it can be very stressful.
I often guide my patients, and believe it or not, it's worked out twice where I basically ask 'em, what are you seeking? What is it that you're seeking? Is it that you just want a companion, you just want to have fun? Or are you looking to get married? And some of them look at me.
(35:50):
I'm like, are you looking to get married? Because if that's the case, then you should indicate that on your dating information.
And they're like, but nobody's gonna pick me then.
The, what I say is maybe the bulk of people won't pick you, but that right person who's looking for the same thing may and in there were two situations with two separate patients where they ended up getting married because of that dating app.
(36:17):
So a lot of times I feel that we enter these things, It's often like we don't know ourselves well enough to ask, what am I seeking in this situation? And it often becomes more about acceptance about that other person who we don't know, accepting you rather than what we're looking for to begin with.
(36:41):
Yeah, I agree.
And I think that's great advice for your clients because you're right.
The quantity plummets, but the quality.
Skyrockets now.
You know that you have someone where you're not setting yourself up for automatic or default rejection.
By that being your intention, that was kept private.
Now, this person's aware of this information, so it's not gonna be a reason that they feel like you're not.
Compatible So yeah, I agree with you.
(37:04):
And ultimately putting our authentic selves out there, that's what you're saying, And just having a menu, of all these other options are going to motivate anyone to.
Hit that eject button to not stay as long when times get a little bit difficult.
Yeah.
If we didn't feel like there's a million fish in the sea and we have access to them.
(37:28):
Yeah.
If I wanted to go pursue that and put energy into that, and so for those reasons, maybe back to our conversation of.
I'm just not gonna go on that second date or that third date, or it's been a few months and I'm gonna jump ship.
Because yeah we feel like we've got this many of options, So that's absolutely gonna have an impact on how we perceive our energy that we're investing into conflict or resolution or when things get boring, investing in those eight forms of intimacy, things like that to keep this train going it's gonna cost people to jump and that makes sense to me.
(37:58):
So that's another thing that I see as, dating app fatigue and perhaps a byproduct of having that resource.
You mentioned eight forms of intimacy.
Tell us about that.
I speak a lot about the eight forms of intimacy because they really are important for couples in relationships and especially important whenever there's a lull, in the bedroom.
(38:18):
So when we're experiencing a lull in physical intimacy or in the bedroom.
There are seven other forms of intimacy to carry you through those moments.
And odds are they start to pour into the physical or sexual intimacy and boost that, right? So especially for women that often look to be physically intimate.
After they feel connected and seen and understood and cared for, right? So these other seven forms, are not sexual at all, right? So there's physical touch, which is not sexual.
(38:48):
So they're just maybe putting a hand on our shoulder or holding my hand in a grocery store.
Then you've got spiritual connection connecting intellectually, you're watching a show together.
It's like a shared interest and kind of talking about it, gossiping about people.
You take a walk together, something like that, right? these eight forms are very achievable.
They're very realistic.
They don't have to look like taking exotic trips or we're not going to bore this weekend.
(39:12):
They can be much more simple.
But investing in all of those eight is a smart move for any relationship, no matter the stage that you're at.
That's excellent.
I think that's really valuable for our listeners.
'cause we often expect like it's just the physical intimacy, but as you said, there's so many other forms of intimacy that could obviously lead to that physical intimacy in the bedroom.
(39:37):
Yeah.
therapy is not only for being in crisis or when The relationship is to a point where you feel extremely concerned or you've got a foot and a half out the door.
therapy can be a preventative and proactive measure.
It can be a health check, it can be a lot of things that are far from the house being on fire and feeling like things are in crisis.
(39:59):
So that would be my lasting comments about the world of therapy.
Okay.
And if my listeners were to look for you, where can they find.
They can find me on my website, which is just brianna bass.org,
one N-B-R-I-A-N-A Brianna bass.org.
That's the same email, brianna@briannabass.org.
There's a phone number on the website And the socials are Brianna bass therapy are you able to see patients who live outside of Texas or how does that work with you? My patients or clients are in Dallas.
(40:32):
They can be throughout all of Texas, but I strongly prefer in-person.
Therapy.
I'm a big believer in-person therapy.
There is a significant difference in meeting virtually versus meeting in person, just from the rapport that you're able to build the cues that you can observe in the room and that connectivity feeling, that emotion, that energy, all of those things I feel get a little bit compromised with virtual sessions.
(40:58):
if that's your only option, that is way better than not going at all.
but if you do have the choice between the two, there's a significant enough difference in your experience when you're going in person.
so that's what I choose to prioritize.
But I do see people virtually.
if they are in proximity to Dallas, I will strongly encourage them to come into the office.
And don't forget to like, share and review my podcast.
(41:22):
Remember, it's always ladies first on Soma Says.
Let's make a difference one conversation at a time.
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