June 26, 2025 • 33 mins
🎙️ Money Mavericks: How Women Are Redefining the Rules of Wealth with Melissa Murphy Pavone
In this empowering episode of Soma Says, Dr. Soma welcomes back Melissa Murphy Pavone, founder of Mindful Financial Partners and a seasoned financial advisor with over 25 years of experience. As a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst (CDFA), Melissa brings not just numbers—but compassion, strategy, and clarity—to the table when helping women navigate the complex financial terrain of divorce.
They dive into the emotional and financial realities many women face during and after separation, from hidden financial pitfalls to the power of preparation. Melissa shares how women can protect their assets, gain financial literacy, and confidently take charge of their futures.
Whether you're contemplating divorce, in the middle of one, or supporting someone who is—this episode is full of practical insights and thoughtful guidance to help you move forward with strength and purpose.
🔑 Topics Covered: 00:00 – Introduction and Disclaimer 00:52 – Meet Melissa Murphy Pavone 01:38 – Understanding Financial Challenges in Divorce 02:28 – The Role of a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst 03:27 – Common Financial Issues Women Face 05:17 – The Importance of Financial Literacy and Support 11:42 – Planning Ahead: Pre-Divorce Essentials 14:50 – Melissa’s Mission and Why She Does This Work 16:12 – Divorce Myths and Creative Solutions 18:40 – Key Documents and Post-Divorce Transitions 24:34 – Real Stories of Financial Empowerment 31:42 – Final Thoughts and How to Connect
🌐 Learn more about Melissa: Website: mindfulfinancialpartners.com LinkedIn: Melissa Murphy Pavone Instagram: @mindfulfinancialpartners
📺 Watch the full episode on YouTube: Subscribe to Soma Says Podcast here → https://www.youtube.com/@SomaSays/videos
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hi, this is Dr.
(00:01):
Soma.
Just a disclaimer, this podcast is for informational purposes only and isn't intended as medical advice.
Always consult with your doctor before making any changes to your diet, exercise, or health regimen.
Let's go to the show. 6 00:00:52,980.023 --> 00:00:56,580.023 I am glad to welcome back Melissa Murphy Pavone to the podcast. 7 00:00:56,880.023 --> 00:01:01,860.023 Melissa is a founder of Mindful Financial Partners and a financial advisor. 8 00:01:02,100.023 --> 00:01:16,290.023 With over 25 years of experience helping clients plan with purpose, she brings a deeply compassionate and strategic approach to financial planning, especially for women navigating major life transitions like. 9 00:01:16,545.023 --> 00:01:17,565.023 Divorce. 10 00:01:17,655.023 --> 00:01:30,795.023 Melissa understands how emotional and overwhelming money decisions can feel during this time, and she's passionate about helping women regain clarity, confidence, and control over their financial future. 11 00:01:31,5.023 --> 00:01:31,875.023 Let's jump in. 12 00:01:38,182.71 --> 00:01:45,202.71 Oftentimes people stay in unhealthy relationships because of the fear of lifestyle changes. 13 00:01:45,202.71 --> 00:01:48,362.71 Or the ability to like, we're barely making ends meet now. 14 00:01:48,602.71 --> 00:01:56,737.88 What is this gonna look like for me later? I should just stay, I'll stay with the abuse You're just trying to get through the day often. 15 00:01:57,77.88 --> 00:02:04,547.88 You're not thinking about how the decisions that you're making today are going to impact you 5, 10, 20 years down the line. 16 00:02:06,63.05 --> 00:02:07,503.05 I wanted to welcome you back. 17 00:02:08,88.05 --> 00:02:08,688.05 Thank you. 18 00:02:08,748.05 --> 00:02:27,823.05 you and I earlier spoke about some fun topics related to finance and how it's really important for women to understand their financial status and how to work with someone like a financial planner so that they are in the best position that they can be today. 19 00:02:28,198.05 --> 00:02:36,838.05 Today we're talking about a very fun topic as we were talking about earlier, which is divorce, and you are a. 20 00:02:37,988.05 --> 00:02:43,58.05 What do you call yourself, Melissa? A Certified Divorce Financial Analyst. 21 00:02:43,58.05 --> 00:02:43,328.05 Yes. 22 00:02:43,328.05 --> 00:02:45,368.05 Did I get it right? Yeah, I did. 23 00:02:45,638.05 --> 00:02:47,258.05 It's CDA for sure. 24 00:02:47,308.05 --> 00:02:59,258.05 What's the process involved to become that? Yeah, it's there's a lot of coursework and case studies to become certified as a certified divorce financial analyst. 25 00:02:59,288.05 --> 00:03:07,738.05 And it's very niched into what the financial planning processes and what decisions and. 26 00:03:08,428.05 --> 00:03:13,198.05 Problems arise when people are divorcing and financially uncoupling. 27 00:03:13,588.05 --> 00:03:23,578.05 To be able to know all of, like the pros, the cons, the tax consequences, and the really, the mistakes that people make through that process and how we can help them. 28 00:03:23,928.05 --> 00:03:40,58.05 Okay, let's start off like what do you find? So what do you find when divorce comes up and what problems do you see amongst your clients? Unfortunately, they're. 29 00:03:41,323.05 --> 00:03:54,903.05 Not always the financial or the family CFO, right? So oftentimes they took a backseat to the finances They know what to do with the day to day and what things cost. 30 00:03:54,903.05 --> 00:04:05,248.05 But the big picture as far as retirement and taxes and financial advisor, all of those kind of big, long-term decisions might have been handled. 31 00:04:05,673.05 --> 00:04:07,113.05 Through their spouse. 32 00:04:07,113.05 --> 00:04:13,143.05 And so a lot of times there's that fear of Hey, I don't even know where to look. 33 00:04:13,143.05 --> 00:04:23,733.05 Or, like how much is left on our mortgage or what is my credit score? And it's that fear that they just had that blind faith and let somebody else handle it. 34 00:04:23,833.05 --> 00:04:35,563.05 it doesn't mean that, they're not financially literate or they're not smart or they're not educated, but they could have just shifted gears, right? Their focus was on their family and the household and all of those things. 35 00:04:35,563.05 --> 00:04:43,543.05 And it's scary when somebody starts asking you questions about things that involve you, but you don't know the answers to them. 36 00:04:45,298.05 --> 00:04:51,828.05 Is that something you commonly find amongst women I have to say it's 50 50. 37 00:04:51,878.05 --> 00:05:05,248.05 But usually there's one spouse that kind of controls the finances and I refer to it as and it's not always the money spouse, right? Sometimes the moneyed spouse is the person like making the money, but the CFO of the family. 38 00:05:05,543.05 --> 00:05:11,603.05 Could be the person making all the decisions and directing all of kind of the decisions around money and finances. 39 00:05:11,603.05 --> 00:05:14,753.05 So it's not always gender specific. 40 00:05:15,143.05 --> 00:05:17,483.05 But there's usually an imbalance. 41 00:05:17,483.05 --> 00:05:32,813.05 And I think where I shine is that I help bring some equality to the table and really help educate people about their finances and increase their financial literacy so that everybody knows. 42 00:05:33,703.05 --> 00:05:39,193.05 what the pros and cons are, how it will impact each party moving forward. 43 00:05:40,393.05 --> 00:05:51,603.05 You often use an accountant or like a forensic accountant to look at all these things so women are aware of what's going on. 44 00:05:53,13.05 --> 00:05:55,293.05 So I can be in two different spaces. 45 00:05:55,293.05 --> 00:06:06,333.05 I can be an advocate for one party, and so one spouse can hire me and just say, Hey, you know what? I don't wanna be pressured to signing something that I don't quite understand. 46 00:06:06,513.05 --> 00:06:06,843.05 Yeah. 47 00:06:08,478.05 --> 00:06:13,638.05 I need somebody in my corner and I can be their advocate, and oftentimes I get brought in as a neutral. 48 00:06:13,668.05 --> 00:06:19,548.05 So if a couple is going through mediation or a collaborative divorce, they're amicable. 49 00:06:20,568.05 --> 00:06:33,853.05 They wanna do this, but say maybe they're working with their mediator, but they just, we have to balance out the retirement assets or we have to buy out a house and, there needs to be some map associated with it and they're just not quite sure how to do it. 50 00:06:34,183.05 --> 00:06:38,803.05 I can get brought in and be a neutral and so I can explain to everybody. 51 00:06:39,113.05 --> 00:06:43,913.05 What the options are and weigh them out and then they can decide what's best for them. 52 00:06:44,393.05 --> 00:07:04,683.05 But oftentimes when I am an advocate, if it's above my pay grade and there might be some marital waste going on, if perhaps there was like an affair or a gambling problem or an addiction we bring in a forensic accountant to do that separate property tracing and make sure that we're equalized there. 53 00:07:05,683.05 --> 00:07:06,43.05 Okay. 54 00:07:06,853.05 --> 00:07:12,743.05 Women that I see at least usually prioritize their children. 55 00:07:13,193.05 --> 00:07:27,753.05 are you able to educate them on the long-term impacts of their decisions? Yeah we talk about that and I think that's really a differentiator and a bonus to having A-C-D-F-A because. 56 00:07:28,258.05 --> 00:07:31,138.05 You're just trying to get through the day often. 57 00:07:31,478.05 --> 00:07:38,948.05 You're not thinking about how the decisions that you're making today are going to impact you 5, 10, 20 years down the line. 58 00:07:39,278.05 --> 00:07:43,238.05 And so I shed light on that because I'm looking. 59 00:07:43,243.05 --> 00:07:44,773.05 At it through a different lens. 60 00:07:45,163.05 --> 00:07:51,523.05 So I can see just not today, but 20 years down the line, what this will mean for you and your future. 61 00:07:51,523.05 --> 00:08:07,643.05 And I want people to know okay, should I keep the house? Should I buy the house? Should I sell the house? And what does this look like if I sell the house later when I'm no longer married? What happens if I am, putting all this money into a 5 29 account and then I don't have enough money for retirement. 62 00:08:08,33.05 --> 00:08:11,88.05 So I really try to look at it through a holistic lens. 63 00:08:11,478.05 --> 00:08:16,148.05 Being that I'm a certified financial planner, it's hard for me to take that CFP hat off. 64 00:08:16,548.05 --> 00:08:24,608.05 When we're trading off assets, I look at the big picture and try to illustrate what their options are and maybe that there's better options. 65 00:08:24,608.05 --> 00:08:37,408.05 And if we're in an amicable space, whether it be mediation or collaborative divorce, and everyone's, being very fair and transparent, we can come up with creative solutions that work best for each individual family. 66 00:08:38,873.05 --> 00:08:57,83.05 Do your clients often seek you out independently or are they referred to you through an attorney or perhaps a friend or, family member that suggests that this person needs to speak with you? How does that usually work? I'd have to say it's probably 50 50. 67 00:08:57,183.05 --> 00:09:01,443.05 A lot of people don't even know what A-C-D-F-A is, right? They've heard the term. 68 00:09:01,818.05 --> 00:09:02,928.05 Forensic accountant. 69 00:09:03,88.05 --> 00:09:07,38.05 They've heard, but they don't necessarily know what A-C-D-F-A is or what it does. 70 00:09:07,38.05 --> 00:09:15,888.05 So I feel like part of my mission is to just let people know that we're out here and that we exist and we can help and be part of your divorce team. 71 00:09:15,888.05 --> 00:09:24,138.05 And I'm a big proponent of just that a divorce team when we get married, right? We have a wedding party, we have all these people supporting us. 72 00:09:24,738.05 --> 00:09:26,118.05 And when we get divorced. 73 00:09:26,943.05 --> 00:09:32,913.05 I think there's a myth that you just need the biggest bias shark attorney in town, right? And that's not the case. 74 00:09:33,333.05 --> 00:09:35,523.05 You wanna have a team to support you. 75 00:09:36,63.05 --> 00:09:37,233.05 People always ask me. 76 00:09:38,268.05 --> 00:09:51,108.05 Who should they call first? And I say, no, the first call should be a divorce coach or a mental health professional because it's really balancing the emotional, the financial, and then the legal end. 77 00:09:51,108.05 --> 00:09:53,838.05 I'm a big proponent of the team approach. 78 00:09:54,378.05 --> 00:10:00,498.05 And even though there's more people that you have to pay, everybody's hourly rate is a little different. 79 00:10:00,998.05 --> 00:10:05,978.05 if everyone stays in their lane and does what they're best at, it actually saves both time and money. 80 00:10:07,573.05 --> 00:10:30,283.05 How do you advise your women clients? divorce is a big stressor and when their identity is no longer being a wife how do you basically advise women to rebuild their identities and rebuild their confidence as well as rebuild their finances? Yeah. 81 00:10:30,353.05 --> 00:10:34,673.05 It's very, it takes a toll on you physically, right? Emotionally. 82 00:10:35,113.05 --> 00:10:42,253.05 I think that by educating and really going through the numbers with my clients, they become empowered. 83 00:10:42,433.05 --> 00:10:48,553.05 And they stand, at the end of it, they stand a little taller because they know what they own and why they own it. 84 00:10:48,658.05 --> 00:10:59,38.05 And the second aspect I would say is that divorce coach or mental health professional is there for you to really help emotionally support you through that identity crisis. 85 00:10:59,38.05 --> 00:10:59,818.05 To say, okay. 86 00:10:59,878.05 --> 00:11:00,238.05 Oh. 87 00:11:00,698.05 --> 00:11:11,888.05 I'm now divorced, right? It's like the Scarlet Letter and there's so much community in divorce, but it's again that fear of that unknown that, oh my God, I never saw myself here. 88 00:11:11,918.05 --> 00:11:15,158.05 But there's a lot of people that are in that same boat. 89 00:11:15,208.05 --> 00:11:17,158.05 You really get to build that community. 90 00:11:17,158.05 --> 00:11:23,598.05 And I've seen a lot of divorcees meet other divorcees Who really lean on one another. 91 00:11:23,598.05 --> 00:11:33,828.05 And become kind of accountability partners and, you can text them if they're not feeling, so great today or banter back and forth instead of just calling your attorney and complaining. 92 00:11:33,828.05 --> 00:11:41,388.05 So yeah, I think that having the right professionals on your team, you'll leave the process feeling empowered. 93 00:11:42,513.05 --> 00:11:59,993.05 Do women often consult with you even before they're divorced to get a better understanding of where their finances are? And do you recommend That's something that we all do, even if we're happily married and there, nothing, no troubles in the horizon, let's say. 94 00:11:59,993.05 --> 00:12:00,473.05 Yeah. 95 00:12:00,818.05 --> 00:12:01,718.05 Yes, absolutely. 96 00:12:01,718.05 --> 00:12:03,338.05 I think everybody should know their numbers. 97 00:12:03,818.05 --> 00:12:06,248.05 Know their assets, right? What they own. 98 00:12:06,428.05 --> 00:12:08,588.05 Know the liabilities, what they owe. 99 00:12:09,8.05 --> 00:12:15,128.05 Know their income, what they earn, and know their expenses, what they spend, and know their credit score. 100 00:12:15,128.05 --> 00:12:22,533.05 Everyone should know those numbers, but specifically when people are thinking about divorce, and I'm very passionate about this because. 101 00:12:23,843.05 --> 00:12:30,863.05 Oftentimes people stay in unhealthy relationships because of the fear of lifestyle changes. 102 00:12:30,863.05 --> 00:12:34,23.05 Or the ability to like, we're barely making ends meet now. 103 00:12:34,263.05 --> 00:12:38,283.05 What is this gonna look like for me later? I should just stay, I'll stay with the abuse. 104 00:12:38,283.05 --> 00:12:55,183.05 I'll wait until the kids are older, I'll wait until they graduate and then I'll leave, or I'll wait until, we pay this off or we get there, or whatever that kind of moment in time is, and I offer what's called like a divorce, financial prep container. 105 00:12:55,233.05 --> 00:12:56,913.05 It's around like a thousand dollars. 106 00:12:57,363.05 --> 00:12:58,233.05 I will. 107 00:12:58,623.05 --> 00:13:01,233.05 Have a one-on-one consultation with you. 108 00:13:01,693.05 --> 00:13:17,203.05 give you all of the documents that you're gonna need, help you build a cashflow for today and then tomorrow, what it might look like, and organize it in a way and give you some basic numbers on what it could look like for alimony or child support. 109 00:13:18,163.05 --> 00:13:24,733.05 And what your options are, and then you can take a pause, right? And it's not oh, hey, I have to get divorced now. 110 00:13:24,733.05 --> 00:13:41,403.05 But now you have better clarity of what is something that's marital and what's something that's separate or what could be divided or what could be carved out on the side or what you could be entitled to based upon how long you were married and what your state laws are. 111 00:13:41,768.05 --> 00:13:47,458.05 So I think that gives people that ability to just say Hey, I'm dipping my toe in the water. 112 00:13:47,638.05 --> 00:13:54,718.05 I'm not quite sure yet, but I wanna know if how I'll be on the other side of this, or if it's feasible or what that might look like. 113 00:13:55,408.05 --> 00:14:00,478.05 And whether you stay together, whether you go to mediation or whether you go to litigation. 114 00:14:00,778.05 --> 00:14:05,518.05 The information that I provide you with during that container will be helpful. 115 00:14:05,798.05 --> 00:14:08,768.05 And you'll be empowered to know because. 116 00:14:10,8.05 --> 00:14:16,218.05 I hate when people show up at the attorney's office, right? And they're like, I think I wanna divorce. 117 00:14:16,218.05 --> 00:14:16,938.05 I don't know. 118 00:14:16,938.05 --> 00:14:18,18.05 I don't know anything. 119 00:14:18,18.05 --> 00:14:19,918.05 And then the clock starts ticking then. 120 00:14:19,968.05 --> 00:14:32,328.05 prepared before you meet with the mediator or the attorney, or have that conversation to be emotionally prepared with a divorce coach or mental health professional, and then be financially prepared with the CDFA. 121 00:14:32,608.05 --> 00:14:45,58.05 you do it on your own timetable, which I think gives you the control and the power back to make decisions when you're cool, calm, and collected, and not rash and not reactive. 122 00:14:46,328.05 --> 00:14:49,803.05 we spoke a bit about this in our first podcast together. 123 00:14:50,373.05 --> 00:14:57,633.05 What inspired you to become a financial planner and then secondly, become A-C-D-F-A? Yeah. 124 00:14:57,683.05 --> 00:14:59,298.05 My why is my mom, I. 125 00:14:59,433.05 --> 00:15:09,153.05 She got a divorce and she made a lot of decisions with her heart and not her head, and they impacted her financial future. 126 00:15:09,243.05 --> 00:15:19,263.05 And I wish that I had the knowledge that I have now back then to have guided her or that she had A-C-D-F-A to be her financial ally. 127 00:15:19,833.05 --> 00:15:40,53.05 And so I have made it my mission in life really just to educate and empower people who are going through this traumatic experience, to have someone they can rely on, to think logically and to really project what the options are, what the pros, the cons, and the tax consequences are. 128 00:15:40,53.05 --> 00:15:48,843.05 Because oftentimes people forget about the tax consequences, and they're not just like the tax consequences today at the table, but 20 years from now. 129 00:15:50,328.05 --> 00:15:52,308.05 What that means for us. 130 00:15:52,498.05 --> 00:15:54,388.05 So yeah, I do it for my mom. 131 00:15:57,178.05 --> 00:15:58,588.05 That's very inspiring. 132 00:15:58,978.05 --> 00:15:59,638.05 yeah, she is. 133 00:15:59,683.05 --> 00:16:01,303.05 If you had to list. 134 00:16:01,688.05 --> 00:16:28,598.05 Some misconceptions that you wish, were readily known or you can educate all of us about what would they be? I think the first one is just all you need is like the biggest bet, this attorney that if you actually first get the emotional support and then the financial support, and then let them guide you and build your team to find the best attorney or mediator that will fit for you. 135 00:16:29,438.05 --> 00:16:30,488.05 I think that's. 136 00:16:30,848.05 --> 00:16:37,18.05 I think that would be really powerful if everyone just knew there were other options than just having one person, Drive the bus. 137 00:16:37,18.05 --> 00:16:42,28.05 And that team approach really is collaborative and really powerful. 138 00:16:42,508.05 --> 00:16:46,258.05 Another one is that everything just gets split in half. 139 00:16:46,328.05 --> 00:16:47,648.05 Oh, just 50 50. 140 00:16:48,218.05 --> 00:16:50,708.05 And it's like we can't split kids in half. 141 00:16:50,738.05 --> 00:16:52,268.05 We can't split houses in half. 142 00:16:52,318.05 --> 00:16:55,988.05 We can split retirement accounts in half, but all of those things really matter. 143 00:16:55,988.05 --> 00:17:06,788.05 And the beauty of mediation, or collaborative divorce, or any amicable divorce solution is that you can really customize it to what's most important. 144 00:17:06,788.05 --> 00:17:12,218.05 And so when I meet with my clients, I really try to learn what their priorities are. 145 00:17:12,588.05 --> 00:17:24,678.05 And what their spouse's priorities are and then know that how do we solve these people's needs and meet in the middle, but both by supporting what they both really want. 146 00:17:25,348.05 --> 00:17:27,598.05 And you have the ability to become really creative. 147 00:17:27,628.05 --> 00:17:30,88.05 Like we can say, everyone just says, alright, we have to sell the house. 148 00:17:31,108.05 --> 00:17:37,708.05 Nobody wants to sell a house right now because nobody can buy a house and rents are just as high as mortgages and. 149 00:17:39,153.05 --> 00:17:42,143.05 Wants to get rid of those 3%, interest rates. 150 00:17:42,143.05 --> 00:17:43,223.05 They're like, we'll stay together. 151 00:17:43,223.05 --> 00:17:43,703.05 I don't care. 152 00:17:43,703.05 --> 00:17:44,543.05 I'll live in the basement. 153 00:17:44,543.05 --> 00:17:47,23.05 We're not getting rid of that 3%, mortgage rate. 154 00:17:47,643.05 --> 00:17:53,223.05 But there are things that we can do to say, Hey, let's co-own the house for a couple more years. 155 00:17:53,583.05 --> 00:17:55,53.05 Pay down the mortgage. 156 00:17:55,498.05 --> 00:18:06,908.05 And then it becomes like a tenant landlord situation until we can then, the kids graduate and then we'll sell the house and we'll split the proceeds, in a specific portion. 157 00:18:06,968.05 --> 00:18:20,28.05 So there are things that we can do and be creative that lawyers might not think of or not the normal I like to think outside the box and get creative when it comes to finding solutions. 158 00:18:20,888.05 --> 00:18:28,338.05 Obviously, not every divorce or separation can be, conducted in a peaceful way. 159 00:18:28,338.05 --> 00:18:38,658.05 But it sounds like you try to come to a mediation financially at least, and maybe in other ways because a lot of it does boil down to money. 160 00:18:39,88.05 --> 00:18:40,173.05 When you think about. 161 00:18:40,858.05 --> 00:18:43,528.05 Key documents that we should all be aware of. 162 00:18:43,868.05 --> 00:19:07,663.05 What should women be aware of? What documents should they have on hand to handle their finance financial picture and divorce? Yeah I say it's harder nowadays because back in the day you can just be like, all right, come home, get the mail first, and open all the documents or make copies, but now in our very paperless society, everything is online, right? Yeah. 163 00:19:07,663.05 --> 00:19:11,393.05 So there's not always that, physical paper trail that we can find. 164 00:19:11,873.05 --> 00:19:14,483.05 And I always say, I'm consistently getting. 165 00:19:15,178.05 --> 00:19:23,248.05 Locked out of my own accounts, let alone there's no way I'm able to remember the password or get into my husband's accounts, with two factor authentication. 166 00:19:23,248.05 --> 00:19:26,98.05 So it's not as easy as it used to be, but. 167 00:19:27,198.05 --> 00:19:32,928.05 One, you should know where the tax return is, right? The tax return is important and will be a really good starting point. 168 00:19:33,588.05 --> 00:19:39,228.05 And if you're married and filing jointly, your name is on it, you signed it right? And your accountant has to give it to you. 169 00:19:39,228.05 --> 00:19:55,238.05 So if you know who your accountant is or know that there's a filing cabinet in the basement with a copy of your tax return, it's a really good starting point because it will give the CDFA some information Kind of like a starting point to start the phishing expedition, to know what to look for and which accounts you guys have. 170 00:19:56,378.05 --> 00:19:59,48.05 I always tell my clients to run their credit report. 171 00:19:59,468.05 --> 00:20:00,398.05 Make sure you don't. 172 00:20:01,58.05 --> 00:20:05,138.05 Pay for a credit report because there are a lot of like scams in that situation. 173 00:20:05,138.05 --> 00:20:08,78.05 But you can go to annual credit report.com. 174 00:20:08,258.05 --> 00:20:11,588.05 Pull your credit report, see what lines of credit are open. 175 00:20:11,618.05 --> 00:20:18,308.05 Oftentimes people forget that there might be like that Joint Home Depot credit card that you have from a long time ago. 176 00:20:19,278.05 --> 00:20:20,238.05 But you wanna see what's open. 177 00:20:20,238.05 --> 00:20:21,408.05 You don't wanna close anything. 178 00:20:21,418.05 --> 00:20:24,88.05 but you'd be surprised if there are some. 179 00:20:24,368.05 --> 00:20:25,718.05 Lines of credit that you didn't know. 180 00:20:25,718.05 --> 00:20:31,18.05 You just wanna keep an eye on them to make sure that there's not any abnormal, deaths out there. 181 00:20:31,438.05 --> 00:20:42,748.05 I have seen, like when people file, they, take money out of their house or they do cash back on a joint credit card because people get scared and have that kind of like flight or fright, flight response. 182 00:20:43,318.05 --> 00:20:48,708.05 So those are the two things I would say start, but just pay attention to Hey, this is our mortgage company. 183 00:20:48,708.05 --> 00:20:50,298.05 This is like the name of this. 184 00:20:50,298.05 --> 00:20:55,528.05 And to know, but there's like a complete document checklist I have when I meet with my clients. 185 00:20:55,538.05 --> 00:20:57,518.05 The mortgage obviously is important. 186 00:20:58,88.05 --> 00:21:07,978.05 And then that credit report, those are all key documents and yeah, we should all know where those things are located. 187 00:21:08,488.05 --> 00:21:25,498.05 When a woman is going through a divorce, how do step in, in the aftermath after consulting with her? Is that a continued relationship that you have with that client? So there's three different parts Okay. 188 00:21:25,578.05 --> 00:21:27,18.05 That I can help with. 189 00:21:27,78.05 --> 00:21:30,948.05 One, like we talked about before is the pre-divorce financial planning. 190 00:21:31,348.05 --> 00:21:34,528.05 And that sometimes is just let's get organized. 191 00:21:34,578.05 --> 00:21:35,838.05 I'm thinking about it. 192 00:21:35,838.05 --> 00:21:37,128.05 I'm not quite sure. 193 00:21:37,158.05 --> 00:21:39,78.05 I need to know what documents I need. 194 00:21:39,78.05 --> 00:21:41,268.05 I know it's gonna take some time to gather that. 195 00:21:42,18.05 --> 00:21:44,988.05 Information up and get emotionally prepared to do it. 196 00:21:45,68.05 --> 00:21:46,718.05 that's like the beforehand. 197 00:21:47,148.05 --> 00:21:54,618.05 Sometimes people just say, all right, give me an hour and tell me what I need to find, and then I'll start finding it and come back to you later. 198 00:21:54,888.05 --> 00:22:03,678.05 Through the mediation or divorce process again, I can be either a neutral or an advocate, so depending upon how I get brought in And I can help with the settlement option. 199 00:22:03,678.05 --> 00:22:07,338.05 So a recent case I was working on couple was amicable. 200 00:22:07,338.05 --> 00:22:08,628.05 They were in mediation. 201 00:22:09,873.05 --> 00:22:13,53.05 And they had to equalize their retirement accounts. 202 00:22:13,53.05 --> 00:22:17,223.05 There were some accounts that were established before the couple got married. 203 00:22:17,643.05 --> 00:22:20,373.05 So in New York State, that's considered separate property. 204 00:22:20,883.05 --> 00:22:24,363.05 That was considered separate property and the growth on that separate property. 205 00:22:24,363.05 --> 00:22:36,633.05 So we have to figure out not just what they had when they got married, but how much their portion grew while they were married, and then separate what they contributed with marital funds. 206 00:22:37,713.05 --> 00:22:39,843.05 Going forward and what that growth was. 207 00:22:39,843.05 --> 00:22:43,533.05 So there, there's some math that goes into that and some calculations. 208 00:22:43,683.05 --> 00:23:04,398.05 And then we were trading off assets as far as, okay, one client needed a little more liquidity for buying a house, the other person wanted more of their retirement assets, and how do we offset that with tax calculations? So during the divorce I can look at the settlement options and sometimes people just call me and they're ready to sign and they're like, Hey. 209 00:23:05,278.05 --> 00:23:23,238.05 Can I have one hour consultation? Can you just sign this? And is there any red flags here? Is there anything that I should be worried about or be hesitant about with the finances of this breakdown? And then the last part is that post-divorce transition assistance and it's. 210 00:23:24,183.05 --> 00:23:26,133.05 Hey, now I'm divorced. 211 00:23:26,823.05 --> 00:23:32,833.05 I now have, either a whole house or proceeds from a house. 212 00:23:33,223.05 --> 00:23:39,163.05 I have a lump sum of retirement money that I didn't have before that I don't know how to manage. 213 00:23:39,883.05 --> 00:23:48,733.05 Now I have a budget that I need to, start beefing up my retirement and start paying these bills by myself without my spouse there. 214 00:23:48,793.05 --> 00:23:54,313.05 And so I can help really that handholding process of okay, how to establish that. 215 00:23:54,313.05 --> 00:23:57,883.05 And so sometimes I do a piece and sometimes I do soup to nuts. 216 00:23:57,883.05 --> 00:24:01,783.05 It just depends where you are in the process and where we meet. 217 00:24:01,838.05 --> 00:24:11,918.05 But I'm happy to just do those little pieces because even sometimes one hour with me or A-C-V-F-A can really give you that clarity that you need and that peace of mind. 218 00:24:11,918.05 --> 00:24:17,348.05 And I think that's really important that it doesn't have to be this huge, long investment. 219 00:24:17,468.05 --> 00:24:22,298.05 Like we're happy to do that, but we will also just do a checkup, right? Like a consult. 220 00:24:22,298.05 --> 00:24:24,188.05 Hey, let's get a second opinion. 221 00:24:24,188.05 --> 00:24:33,703.05 Let's make sure, looking at it from not just a legal lens, but from a financial lens, am I going to be okay? And if not, how should I change this? Yeah. 222 00:24:34,763.05 --> 00:24:44,243.05 Can you give us like one or two examples? I always think these are the most important things where listeners can understand how you actually help an actual person. 223 00:24:44,243.05 --> 00:24:47,513.05 Obviously, keeping everything in confidence. 224 00:24:47,513.05 --> 00:24:55,973.05 But give us like a couple of examples where you work with a woman, really changed the outcome of their divorce. 225 00:24:58,88.05 --> 00:25:10,148.05 So this case that I was working on in the past, the wife was the money spouse and the breadwinner and was diligently putting her money away. 226 00:25:11,228.05 --> 00:25:14,918.05 For long before she got married, she was just a really good saver. 227 00:25:15,348.05 --> 00:25:19,608.05 And so she had some assets prior to the marriage. 228 00:25:19,878.05 --> 00:25:28,828.05 Then they got married and she really floated the marriage for quite some time and continued to put into her retirement. 229 00:25:29,193.05 --> 00:25:36,93.05 Her Roth, her 4 57, her 401k, she was such a good saver and really planning for that next phase. 230 00:25:36,153.05 --> 00:25:41,243.05 And her spouse wasn't as good as a saver, right? His income wasn't as steady. 231 00:25:41,723.05 --> 00:25:45,713.05 And so we're now at the table. 232 00:25:45,743.05 --> 00:25:50,783.05 They're meeting with a mediator and they have to equalize some of their assets. 233 00:25:53,673.05 --> 00:25:56,538.05 Like I said before, there was assets prior to marriage. 234 00:25:56,568.05 --> 00:26:01,233.05 So we had to see what assets she had prior to marriage. 235 00:26:01,233.05 --> 00:26:08,123.05 And it doesn't always just like line up, right? first we had to contact the previous, the old statements. 236 00:26:08,153.05 --> 00:26:10,943.05 We had to, find the statements of before they got married. 237 00:26:11,283.05 --> 00:26:15,393.05 And then the statements right after they got married and it was in the middle of the month. 238 00:26:15,393.05 --> 00:26:18,913.05 So we had to do some calculations You need to know what questions to ask. 239 00:26:18,913.05 --> 00:26:35,743.05 And so we went back to the provider to say were there any additions to this, these accounts? 'cause there was multiples through the marriage and we tried to do a separate property tracing to see how much of this account is marital and how much of it is separate. 240 00:26:35,743.05 --> 00:26:40,843.05 And because it we're going back 20 years, there was a big run up in the market. 241 00:26:40,843.05 --> 00:26:41,923.05 So the money. 242 00:26:42,723.05 --> 00:26:49,83.05 That was originally deposited prior, like the snapshot of account was about like $80,000. 243 00:26:49,83.05 --> 00:26:52,793.05 That was premarital, that it looked like. 244 00:26:52,853.05 --> 00:26:52,913.05 Yeah. 245 00:26:52,913.05 --> 00:26:58,733.05 And so somebody else, an attorney and mediator, they might just say, okay, we're gonna carve out $80,000. 246 00:26:58,733.05 --> 00:27:01,133.05 And that's what you had prior to marriage. 247 00:27:02,843.05 --> 00:27:04,433.05 But it's not just $80,000. 248 00:27:04,463.05 --> 00:27:08,663.05 It's where that $80,000 grew to today. 249 00:27:08,693.05 --> 00:27:17,803.05 So then we went back to check and in this instance, we were able to trace the actual positions and the shares and see what it grew to. 250 00:27:17,803.05 --> 00:27:27,673.05 And that $80,000 grew to, it was like $370,000 of assets that we carved out to be separate property. 251 00:27:28,968.05 --> 00:27:43,128.05 And so if I didn't do that due diligence and really do that, peel back the layers of the onion and really call the administrator to see where the other additions were, to see all that things we could have just said, okay. 252 00:27:43,128.05 --> 00:27:45,768.05 Someone else might have just said, okay, 80,000, this is yours. 253 00:27:45,768.05 --> 00:27:47,63.05 Everything else is marital. 254 00:27:48,108.05 --> 00:28:00,738.05 When you really start to look at it through a different lens, we were able to show her that $80,000 really is worth $370,000 today, and this is all separate and not part of the marital pool that we're gonna split. 255 00:28:03,348.05 --> 00:28:03,648.05 Yeah. 256 00:28:03,698.05 --> 00:28:11,38.05 I can't see how anybody could figure that out on their own, especially if you're going back to 20 years. 257 00:28:12,138.05 --> 00:28:16,608.05 Luckily it is that luckily the plan administrator was actually really good getting us the statements. 258 00:28:16,608.05 --> 00:28:24,858.05 'cause that's sometimes the hold up is like finding, not everything was digital back then, right? To get those statements that are digitized now. 259 00:28:24,858.05 --> 00:28:28,278.05 It's a little easier, but we were going back to 2008. 260 00:28:28,328.05 --> 00:28:28,628.05 Yeah. 261 00:28:29,183.05 --> 00:28:33,533.05 And so yeah, we were able to get the statements and able to locate it. 262 00:28:33,533.05 --> 00:28:41,543.05 And so in that case, the wife was very happy, that I was able to do that due diligence and find the separate property for her. 263 00:28:41,593.05 --> 00:28:49,113.05 Any other examples that may make our listeners be like, I need to contact Melissa. 264 00:28:50,413.05 --> 00:28:52,633.05 So there's another case that I'm working on right now. 265 00:28:52,643.05 --> 00:29:06,23.05 And they have a house that's almost paid off and they have, they don't have a lot of liquid assets, so the majority of their assets they put into paying off their house, but all their other assets are retirement assets. 266 00:29:06,23.05 --> 00:29:08,783.05 So one of the spouses wants to keep the house. 267 00:29:10,328.05 --> 00:29:18,788.05 The husband wants to keep the house and the wife doesn't care about the house and is happy to move out, and so she needs to be bought out of the house. 268 00:29:19,368.05 --> 00:29:26,358.05 But there's no liquidity there and they don't want to get a mortgage rate in today's rates. 269 00:29:26,408.05 --> 00:29:36,438.05 Great divorce, so they're going to trade off retirement assets, but the money that's owed is $500,000 for the equity in the house. 270 00:29:37,563.05 --> 00:29:47,53.05 And so it's not just $500,000 in retirement assets that we can gift to her in lieu of the house because we're, we have to take taxes into consideration. 271 00:29:47,563.05 --> 00:29:48,163.05 Today. 272 00:29:48,503.05 --> 00:29:55,973.05 And on the flip side of that, so it ended up being $120,000 in taxes that we had to gross up. 273 00:29:55,973.05 --> 00:30:09,533.05 So instead of getting $500,000 in cash, she end up getting $620,000 in retirement assets because she's gonna have to pay tax on those funds when she takes them out in retirement. 274 00:30:09,893.05 --> 00:30:27,413.05 But in order to find out which tax bracket she was gonna be in, I had to look at her pension, her income, her social security, and really do a projection as far as we don't wanna miscalculate, because if you underestimate, then she's gonna have to pay more if she overestimates. 275 00:30:28,733.05 --> 00:30:33,953.05 And when they came to me, they were thinking about just cashing it out now. 276 00:30:34,808.05 --> 00:30:45,308.05 That the retirement account and just giving it from the husband to the wife, and in which case, they would've been in the 32% bracket. 277 00:30:45,308.05 --> 00:30:50,928.05 And so it would've taken even more money to equalize that. 278 00:30:50,928.05 --> 00:30:58,778.05 So it was crazy, if they would've taken it out directly and then gave, given her the cash if she needed it to buy like a house today. 279 00:31:00,248.05 --> 00:31:01,508.05 It would've been a lot more money. 280 00:31:01,508.05 --> 00:31:03,818.05 So I save them a lot of money in taxes. 281 00:31:03,818.05 --> 00:31:20,888.05 Once I really asked the questions of, Hey, are we buying a house now? Or can we buy something in the future and where, when are we gonna take this money out? So it's just really doing that deep dive that really matters and making sure that we are very transparent with the taxes. 282 00:31:20,918.05 --> 00:31:24,218.05 'cause that's what can really change somebody's financial situation. 283 00:31:24,268.05 --> 00:31:30,848.05 Yeah, I think this is awesome because, we all have our individual professions, but we don't do what you do. 284 00:31:30,848.05 --> 00:31:42,323.05 so hopefully, I don't wish divorce on anyone, but if it does happen, it makes all sense, for women to be in touch with you, for you to be their ally. 285 00:31:42,608.05 --> 00:31:45,998.05 we've talked a lot and a lot of this has been, very illuminating. 286 00:31:45,998.05 --> 00:31:52,408.05 I feel like this is a carryover from our first episode together, but a little bit more of a niche, obviously. 287 00:31:53,608.05 --> 00:31:57,868.05 I'm very pro financial communication and financial literacy. 288 00:31:58,228.05 --> 00:32:03,178.05 And if you do find yourself that, divorce is on the. 289 00:32:03,598.05 --> 00:32:05,758.05 Your doorstep, build your team. 290 00:32:06,128.05 --> 00:32:07,508.05 I can't stress that enough. 291 00:32:07,508.05 --> 00:32:15,138.05 Just getting that emotional support, that financial support and the correct legal support through this process and knowing that. 292 00:32:16,848.05 --> 00:32:24,28.05 You will get through this, but you wanna get through this with people that you like, trust and respect to get you through this. 293 00:32:24,298.05 --> 00:32:24,568.05 Yeah. 294 00:32:25,258.05 --> 00:32:32,28.05 You have this code where obviously, at least on YouTube, people can use their phones to find you. 295 00:32:32,298.05 --> 00:32:40,618.05 But for my Apple Podcast listeners tell us about your social media handles or what is your website so that people can find you. 296 00:32:40,688.05 --> 00:32:41,618.05 And learn about you. 297 00:32:42,138.05 --> 00:32:48,738.05 My company's name is Mindful Divorce Partners and it's just www.mindfuldivorcepartners.com. 298 00:32:49,248.05 --> 00:33:06,818.05 On my website, you can book a complimentary consultation to get on my calendar if I am not the right person for you or if you want somebody in person, I'm happy to connect you to the professionals within my network that I've vetted to find you the right support that you need for your divorce. 299 00:33:07,803.05 --> 00:33:10,143.05 Thank you so much for joining me again. 300 00:33:10,573.05 --> 00:33:13,448.05 Yes, both the first one as well as this one. 301 00:33:13,448.05 --> 00:33:20,618.05 I really think that it helps empower women to take charge of their personal lives as well as their financial lives. 302 00:33:21,38.05 --> 00:33:21,668.05 Thank you. 303 00:33:21,668.05 --> 00:33:25,768.05 And don't forget to like, share and review my podcast. 304 00:33:26,318.05 --> 00:33:30,108.05 Remember, it's always ladies first on Soma Says. 305 00:33:30,408.05 --> 00:33:34,68.05 Let's make a difference one conversation at a time.
Hi, this is Dr.
(00:01):
Soma.
Just a disclaimer, this podcast is for informational purposes only and isn't intended as medical advice.
Always consult with your doctor before making any changes to your diet, exercise, or health regimen.
Let's go to the show. 6 00:00:52,980.023 --> 00:00:56,580.023 I am glad to welcome back Melissa Murphy Pavone to the podcast. 7 00:00:56,880.023 --> 00:01:01,860.023 Melissa is a founder of Mindful Financial Partners and a financial advisor. 8 00:01:02,100.023 --> 00:01:16,290.023 With over 25 years of experience helping clients plan with purpose, she brings a deeply compassionate and strategic approach to financial planning, especially for women navigating major life transitions like. 9 00:01:16,545.023 --> 00:01:17,565.023 Divorce. 10 00:01:17,655.023 --> 00:01:30,795.023 Melissa understands how emotional and overwhelming money decisions can feel during this time, and she's passionate about helping women regain clarity, confidence, and control over their financial future. 11 00:01:31,5.023 --> 00:01:31,875.023 Let's jump in. 12 00:01:38,182.71 --> 00:01:45,202.71 Oftentimes people stay in unhealthy relationships because of the fear of lifestyle changes. 13 00:01:45,202.71 --> 00:01:48,362.71 Or the ability to like, we're barely making ends meet now. 14 00:01:48,602.71 --> 00:01:56,737.88 What is this gonna look like for me later? I should just stay, I'll stay with the abuse You're just trying to get through the day often. 15 00:01:57,77.88 --> 00:02:04,547.88 You're not thinking about how the decisions that you're making today are going to impact you 5, 10, 20 years down the line. 16 00:02:06,63.05 --> 00:02:07,503.05 I wanted to welcome you back. 17 00:02:08,88.05 --> 00:02:08,688.05 Thank you. 18 00:02:08,748.05 --> 00:02:27,823.05 you and I earlier spoke about some fun topics related to finance and how it's really important for women to understand their financial status and how to work with someone like a financial planner so that they are in the best position that they can be today. 19 00:02:28,198.05 --> 00:02:36,838.05 Today we're talking about a very fun topic as we were talking about earlier, which is divorce, and you are a. 20 00:02:37,988.05 --> 00:02:43,58.05 What do you call yourself, Melissa? A Certified Divorce Financial Analyst. 21 00:02:43,58.05 --> 00:02:43,328.05 Yes. 22 00:02:43,328.05 --> 00:02:45,368.05 Did I get it right? Yeah, I did. 23 00:02:45,638.05 --> 00:02:47,258.05 It's CDA for sure. 24 00:02:47,308.05 --> 00:02:59,258.05 What's the process involved to become that? Yeah, it's there's a lot of coursework and case studies to become certified as a certified divorce financial analyst. 25 00:02:59,288.05 --> 00:03:07,738.05 And it's very niched into what the financial planning processes and what decisions and. 26 00:03:08,428.05 --> 00:03:13,198.05 Problems arise when people are divorcing and financially uncoupling. 27 00:03:13,588.05 --> 00:03:23,578.05 To be able to know all of, like the pros, the cons, the tax consequences, and the really, the mistakes that people make through that process and how we can help them. 28 00:03:23,928.05 --> 00:03:40,58.05 Okay, let's start off like what do you find? So what do you find when divorce comes up and what problems do you see amongst your clients? Unfortunately, they're. 29 00:03:41,323.05 --> 00:03:54,903.05 Not always the financial or the family CFO, right? So oftentimes they took a backseat to the finances They know what to do with the day to day and what things cost. 30 00:03:54,903.05 --> 00:04:05,248.05 But the big picture as far as retirement and taxes and financial advisor, all of those kind of big, long-term decisions might have been handled. 31 00:04:05,673.05 --> 00:04:07,113.05 Through their spouse. 32 00:04:07,113.05 --> 00:04:13,143.05 And so a lot of times there's that fear of Hey, I don't even know where to look. 33 00:04:13,143.05 --> 00:04:23,733.05 Or, like how much is left on our mortgage or what is my credit score? And it's that fear that they just had that blind faith and let somebody else handle it. 34 00:04:23,833.05 --> 00:04:35,563.05 it doesn't mean that, they're not financially literate or they're not smart or they're not educated, but they could have just shifted gears, right? Their focus was on their family and the household and all of those things. 35 00:04:35,563.05 --> 00:04:43,543.05 And it's scary when somebody starts asking you questions about things that involve you, but you don't know the answers to them. 36 00:04:45,298.05 --> 00:04:51,828.05 Is that something you commonly find amongst women I have to say it's 50 50. 37 00:04:51,878.05 --> 00:05:05,248.05 But usually there's one spouse that kind of controls the finances and I refer to it as and it's not always the money spouse, right? Sometimes the moneyed spouse is the person like making the money, but the CFO of the family. 38 00:05:05,543.05 --> 00:05:11,603.05 Could be the person making all the decisions and directing all of kind of the decisions around money and finances. 39 00:05:11,603.05 --> 00:05:14,753.05 So it's not always gender specific. 40 00:05:15,143.05 --> 00:05:17,483.05 But there's usually an imbalance. 41 00:05:17,483.05 --> 00:05:32,813.05 And I think where I shine is that I help bring some equality to the table and really help educate people about their finances and increase their financial literacy so that everybody knows. 42 00:05:33,703.05 --> 00:05:39,193.05 what the pros and cons are, how it will impact each party moving forward. 43 00:05:40,393.05 --> 00:05:51,603.05 You often use an accountant or like a forensic accountant to look at all these things so women are aware of what's going on. 44 00:05:53,13.05 --> 00:05:55,293.05 So I can be in two different spaces. 45 00:05:55,293.05 --> 00:06:06,333.05 I can be an advocate for one party, and so one spouse can hire me and just say, Hey, you know what? I don't wanna be pressured to signing something that I don't quite understand. 46 00:06:06,513.05 --> 00:06:06,843.05 Yeah. 47 00:06:08,478.05 --> 00:06:13,638.05 I need somebody in my corner and I can be their advocate, and oftentimes I get brought in as a neutral. 48 00:06:13,668.05 --> 00:06:19,548.05 So if a couple is going through mediation or a collaborative divorce, they're amicable. 49 00:06:20,568.05 --> 00:06:33,853.05 They wanna do this, but say maybe they're working with their mediator, but they just, we have to balance out the retirement assets or we have to buy out a house and, there needs to be some map associated with it and they're just not quite sure how to do it. 50 00:06:34,183.05 --> 00:06:38,803.05 I can get brought in and be a neutral and so I can explain to everybody. 51 00:06:39,113.05 --> 00:06:43,913.05 What the options are and weigh them out and then they can decide what's best for them. 52 00:06:44,393.05 --> 00:07:04,683.05 But oftentimes when I am an advocate, if it's above my pay grade and there might be some marital waste going on, if perhaps there was like an affair or a gambling problem or an addiction we bring in a forensic accountant to do that separate property tracing and make sure that we're equalized there. 53 00:07:05,683.05 --> 00:07:06,43.05 Okay. 54 00:07:06,853.05 --> 00:07:12,743.05 Women that I see at least usually prioritize their children. 55 00:07:13,193.05 --> 00:07:27,753.05 are you able to educate them on the long-term impacts of their decisions? Yeah we talk about that and I think that's really a differentiator and a bonus to having A-C-D-F-A because. 56 00:07:28,258.05 --> 00:07:31,138.05 You're just trying to get through the day often. 57 00:07:31,478.05 --> 00:07:38,948.05 You're not thinking about how the decisions that you're making today are going to impact you 5, 10, 20 years down the line. 58 00:07:39,278.05 --> 00:07:43,238.05 And so I shed light on that because I'm looking. 59 00:07:43,243.05 --> 00:07:44,773.05 At it through a different lens. 60 00:07:45,163.05 --> 00:07:51,523.05 So I can see just not today, but 20 years down the line, what this will mean for you and your future. 61 00:07:51,523.05 --> 00:08:07,643.05 And I want people to know okay, should I keep the house? Should I buy the house? Should I sell the house? And what does this look like if I sell the house later when I'm no longer married? What happens if I am, putting all this money into a 5 29 account and then I don't have enough money for retirement. 62 00:08:08,33.05 --> 00:08:11,88.05 So I really try to look at it through a holistic lens. 63 00:08:11,478.05 --> 00:08:16,148.05 Being that I'm a certified financial planner, it's hard for me to take that CFP hat off. 64 00:08:16,548.05 --> 00:08:24,608.05 When we're trading off assets, I look at the big picture and try to illustrate what their options are and maybe that there's better options. 65 00:08:24,608.05 --> 00:08:37,408.05 And if we're in an amicable space, whether it be mediation or collaborative divorce, and everyone's, being very fair and transparent, we can come up with creative solutions that work best for each individual family. 66 00:08:38,873.05 --> 00:08:57,83.05 Do your clients often seek you out independently or are they referred to you through an attorney or perhaps a friend or, family member that suggests that this person needs to speak with you? How does that usually work? I'd have to say it's probably 50 50. 67 00:08:57,183.05 --> 00:09:01,443.05 A lot of people don't even know what A-C-D-F-A is, right? They've heard the term. 68 00:09:01,818.05 --> 00:09:02,928.05 Forensic accountant. 69 00:09:03,88.05 --> 00:09:07,38.05 They've heard, but they don't necessarily know what A-C-D-F-A is or what it does. 70 00:09:07,38.05 --> 00:09:15,888.05 So I feel like part of my mission is to just let people know that we're out here and that we exist and we can help and be part of your divorce team. 71 00:09:15,888.05 --> 00:09:24,138.05 And I'm a big proponent of just that a divorce team when we get married, right? We have a wedding party, we have all these people supporting us. 72 00:09:24,738.05 --> 00:09:26,118.05 And when we get divorced. 73 00:09:26,943.05 --> 00:09:32,913.05 I think there's a myth that you just need the biggest bias shark attorney in town, right? And that's not the case. 74 00:09:33,333.05 --> 00:09:35,523.05 You wanna have a team to support you. 75 00:09:36,63.05 --> 00:09:37,233.05 People always ask me. 76 00:09:38,268.05 --> 00:09:51,108.05 Who should they call first? And I say, no, the first call should be a divorce coach or a mental health professional because it's really balancing the emotional, the financial, and then the legal end. 77 00:09:51,108.05 --> 00:09:53,838.05 I'm a big proponent of the team approach. 78 00:09:54,378.05 --> 00:10:00,498.05 And even though there's more people that you have to pay, everybody's hourly rate is a little different. 79 00:10:00,998.05 --> 00:10:05,978.05 if everyone stays in their lane and does what they're best at, it actually saves both time and money. 80 00:10:07,573.05 --> 00:10:30,283.05 How do you advise your women clients? divorce is a big stressor and when their identity is no longer being a wife how do you basically advise women to rebuild their identities and rebuild their confidence as well as rebuild their finances? Yeah. 81 00:10:30,353.05 --> 00:10:34,673.05 It's very, it takes a toll on you physically, right? Emotionally. 82 00:10:35,113.05 --> 00:10:42,253.05 I think that by educating and really going through the numbers with my clients, they become empowered. 83 00:10:42,433.05 --> 00:10:48,553.05 And they stand, at the end of it, they stand a little taller because they know what they own and why they own it. 84 00:10:48,658.05 --> 00:10:59,38.05 And the second aspect I would say is that divorce coach or mental health professional is there for you to really help emotionally support you through that identity crisis. 85 00:10:59,38.05 --> 00:10:59,818.05 To say, okay. 86 00:10:59,878.05 --> 00:11:00,238.05 Oh. 87 00:11:00,698.05 --> 00:11:11,888.05 I'm now divorced, right? It's like the Scarlet Letter and there's so much community in divorce, but it's again that fear of that unknown that, oh my God, I never saw myself here. 88 00:11:11,918.05 --> 00:11:15,158.05 But there's a lot of people that are in that same boat. 89 00:11:15,208.05 --> 00:11:17,158.05 You really get to build that community. 90 00:11:17,158.05 --> 00:11:23,598.05 And I've seen a lot of divorcees meet other divorcees Who really lean on one another. 91 00:11:23,598.05 --> 00:11:33,828.05 And become kind of accountability partners and, you can text them if they're not feeling, so great today or banter back and forth instead of just calling your attorney and complaining. 92 00:11:33,828.05 --> 00:11:41,388.05 So yeah, I think that having the right professionals on your team, you'll leave the process feeling empowered. 93 00:11:42,513.05 --> 00:11:59,993.05 Do women often consult with you even before they're divorced to get a better understanding of where their finances are? And do you recommend That's something that we all do, even if we're happily married and there, nothing, no troubles in the horizon, let's say. 94 00:11:59,993.05 --> 00:12:00,473.05 Yeah. 95 00:12:00,818.05 --> 00:12:01,718.05 Yes, absolutely. 96 00:12:01,718.05 --> 00:12:03,338.05 I think everybody should know their numbers. 97 00:12:03,818.05 --> 00:12:06,248.05 Know their assets, right? What they own. 98 00:12:06,428.05 --> 00:12:08,588.05 Know the liabilities, what they owe. 99 00:12:09,8.05 --> 00:12:15,128.05 Know their income, what they earn, and know their expenses, what they spend, and know their credit score. 100 00:12:15,128.05 --> 00:12:22,533.05 Everyone should know those numbers, but specifically when people are thinking about divorce, and I'm very passionate about this because. 101 00:12:23,843.05 --> 00:12:30,863.05 Oftentimes people stay in unhealthy relationships because of the fear of lifestyle changes. 102 00:12:30,863.05 --> 00:12:34,23.05 Or the ability to like, we're barely making ends meet now. 103 00:12:34,263.05 --> 00:12:38,283.05 What is this gonna look like for me later? I should just stay, I'll stay with the abuse. 104 00:12:38,283.05 --> 00:12:55,183.05 I'll wait until the kids are older, I'll wait until they graduate and then I'll leave, or I'll wait until, we pay this off or we get there, or whatever that kind of moment in time is, and I offer what's called like a divorce, financial prep container. 105 00:12:55,233.05 --> 00:12:56,913.05 It's around like a thousand dollars. 106 00:12:57,363.05 --> 00:12:58,233.05 I will. 107 00:12:58,623.05 --> 00:13:01,233.05 Have a one-on-one consultation with you. 108 00:13:01,693.05 --> 00:13:17,203.05 give you all of the documents that you're gonna need, help you build a cashflow for today and then tomorrow, what it might look like, and organize it in a way and give you some basic numbers on what it could look like for alimony or child support. 109 00:13:18,163.05 --> 00:13:24,733.05 And what your options are, and then you can take a pause, right? And it's not oh, hey, I have to get divorced now. 110 00:13:24,733.05 --> 00:13:41,403.05 But now you have better clarity of what is something that's marital and what's something that's separate or what could be divided or what could be carved out on the side or what you could be entitled to based upon how long you were married and what your state laws are. 111 00:13:41,768.05 --> 00:13:47,458.05 So I think that gives people that ability to just say Hey, I'm dipping my toe in the water. 112 00:13:47,638.05 --> 00:13:54,718.05 I'm not quite sure yet, but I wanna know if how I'll be on the other side of this, or if it's feasible or what that might look like. 113 00:13:55,408.05 --> 00:14:00,478.05 And whether you stay together, whether you go to mediation or whether you go to litigation. 114 00:14:00,778.05 --> 00:14:05,518.05 The information that I provide you with during that container will be helpful. 115 00:14:05,798.05 --> 00:14:08,768.05 And you'll be empowered to know because. 116 00:14:10,8.05 --> 00:14:16,218.05 I hate when people show up at the attorney's office, right? And they're like, I think I wanna divorce. 117 00:14:16,218.05 --> 00:14:16,938.05 I don't know. 118 00:14:16,938.05 --> 00:14:18,18.05 I don't know anything. 119 00:14:18,18.05 --> 00:14:19,918.05 And then the clock starts ticking then. 120 00:14:19,968.05 --> 00:14:32,328.05 prepared before you meet with the mediator or the attorney, or have that conversation to be emotionally prepared with a divorce coach or mental health professional, and then be financially prepared with the CDFA. 121 00:14:32,608.05 --> 00:14:45,58.05 you do it on your own timetable, which I think gives you the control and the power back to make decisions when you're cool, calm, and collected, and not rash and not reactive. 122 00:14:46,328.05 --> 00:14:49,803.05 we spoke a bit about this in our first podcast together. 123 00:14:50,373.05 --> 00:14:57,633.05 What inspired you to become a financial planner and then secondly, become A-C-D-F-A? Yeah. 124 00:14:57,683.05 --> 00:14:59,298.05 My why is my mom, I. 125 00:14:59,433.05 --> 00:15:09,153.05 She got a divorce and she made a lot of decisions with her heart and not her head, and they impacted her financial future. 126 00:15:09,243.05 --> 00:15:19,263.05 And I wish that I had the knowledge that I have now back then to have guided her or that she had A-C-D-F-A to be her financial ally. 127 00:15:19,833.05 --> 00:15:40,53.05 And so I have made it my mission in life really just to educate and empower people who are going through this traumatic experience, to have someone they can rely on, to think logically and to really project what the options are, what the pros, the cons, and the tax consequences are. 128 00:15:40,53.05 --> 00:15:48,843.05 Because oftentimes people forget about the tax consequences, and they're not just like the tax consequences today at the table, but 20 years from now. 129 00:15:50,328.05 --> 00:15:52,308.05 What that means for us. 130 00:15:52,498.05 --> 00:15:54,388.05 So yeah, I do it for my mom. 131 00:15:57,178.05 --> 00:15:58,588.05 That's very inspiring. 132 00:15:58,978.05 --> 00:15:59,638.05 yeah, she is. 133 00:15:59,683.05 --> 00:16:01,303.05 If you had to list. 134 00:16:01,688.05 --> 00:16:28,598.05 Some misconceptions that you wish, were readily known or you can educate all of us about what would they be? I think the first one is just all you need is like the biggest bet, this attorney that if you actually first get the emotional support and then the financial support, and then let them guide you and build your team to find the best attorney or mediator that will fit for you. 135 00:16:29,438.05 --> 00:16:30,488.05 I think that's. 136 00:16:30,848.05 --> 00:16:37,18.05 I think that would be really powerful if everyone just knew there were other options than just having one person, Drive the bus. 137 00:16:37,18.05 --> 00:16:42,28.05 And that team approach really is collaborative and really powerful. 138 00:16:42,508.05 --> 00:16:46,258.05 Another one is that everything just gets split in half. 139 00:16:46,328.05 --> 00:16:47,648.05 Oh, just 50 50. 140 00:16:48,218.05 --> 00:16:50,708.05 And it's like we can't split kids in half. 141 00:16:50,738.05 --> 00:16:52,268.05 We can't split houses in half. 142 00:16:52,318.05 --> 00:16:55,988.05 We can split retirement accounts in half, but all of those things really matter. 143 00:16:55,988.05 --> 00:17:06,788.05 And the beauty of mediation, or collaborative divorce, or any amicable divorce solution is that you can really customize it to what's most important. 144 00:17:06,788.05 --> 00:17:12,218.05 And so when I meet with my clients, I really try to learn what their priorities are. 145 00:17:12,588.05 --> 00:17:24,678.05 And what their spouse's priorities are and then know that how do we solve these people's needs and meet in the middle, but both by supporting what they both really want. 146 00:17:25,348.05 --> 00:17:27,598.05 And you have the ability to become really creative. 147 00:17:27,628.05 --> 00:17:30,88.05 Like we can say, everyone just says, alright, we have to sell the house. 148 00:17:31,108.05 --> 00:17:37,708.05 Nobody wants to sell a house right now because nobody can buy a house and rents are just as high as mortgages and. 149 00:17:39,153.05 --> 00:17:42,143.05 Wants to get rid of those 3%, interest rates. 150 00:17:42,143.05 --> 00:17:43,223.05 They're like, we'll stay together. 151 00:17:43,223.05 --> 00:17:43,703.05 I don't care. 152 00:17:43,703.05 --> 00:17:44,543.05 I'll live in the basement. 153 00:17:44,543.05 --> 00:17:47,23.05 We're not getting rid of that 3%, mortgage rate. 154 00:17:47,643.05 --> 00:17:53,223.05 But there are things that we can do to say, Hey, let's co-own the house for a couple more years. 155 00:17:53,583.05 --> 00:17:55,53.05 Pay down the mortgage. 156 00:17:55,498.05 --> 00:18:06,908.05 And then it becomes like a tenant landlord situation until we can then, the kids graduate and then we'll sell the house and we'll split the proceeds, in a specific portion. 157 00:18:06,968.05 --> 00:18:20,28.05 So there are things that we can do and be creative that lawyers might not think of or not the normal I like to think outside the box and get creative when it comes to finding solutions. 158 00:18:20,888.05 --> 00:18:28,338.05 Obviously, not every divorce or separation can be, conducted in a peaceful way. 159 00:18:28,338.05 --> 00:18:38,658.05 But it sounds like you try to come to a mediation financially at least, and maybe in other ways because a lot of it does boil down to money. 160 00:18:39,88.05 --> 00:18:40,173.05 When you think about. 161 00:18:40,858.05 --> 00:18:43,528.05 Key documents that we should all be aware of. 162 00:18:43,868.05 --> 00:19:07,663.05 What should women be aware of? What documents should they have on hand to handle their finance financial picture and divorce? Yeah I say it's harder nowadays because back in the day you can just be like, all right, come home, get the mail first, and open all the documents or make copies, but now in our very paperless society, everything is online, right? Yeah. 163 00:19:07,663.05 --> 00:19:11,393.05 So there's not always that, physical paper trail that we can find. 164 00:19:11,873.05 --> 00:19:14,483.05 And I always say, I'm consistently getting. 165 00:19:15,178.05 --> 00:19:23,248.05 Locked out of my own accounts, let alone there's no way I'm able to remember the password or get into my husband's accounts, with two factor authentication. 166 00:19:23,248.05 --> 00:19:26,98.05 So it's not as easy as it used to be, but. 167 00:19:27,198.05 --> 00:19:32,928.05 One, you should know where the tax return is, right? The tax return is important and will be a really good starting point. 168 00:19:33,588.05 --> 00:19:39,228.05 And if you're married and filing jointly, your name is on it, you signed it right? And your accountant has to give it to you. 169 00:19:39,228.05 --> 00:19:55,238.05 So if you know who your accountant is or know that there's a filing cabinet in the basement with a copy of your tax return, it's a really good starting point because it will give the CDFA some information Kind of like a starting point to start the phishing expedition, to know what to look for and which accounts you guys have. 170 00:19:56,378.05 --> 00:19:59,48.05 I always tell my clients to run their credit report. 171 00:19:59,468.05 --> 00:20:00,398.05 Make sure you don't. 172 00:20:01,58.05 --> 00:20:05,138.05 Pay for a credit report because there are a lot of like scams in that situation. 173 00:20:05,138.05 --> 00:20:08,78.05 But you can go to annual credit report.com. 174 00:20:08,258.05 --> 00:20:11,588.05 Pull your credit report, see what lines of credit are open. 175 00:20:11,618.05 --> 00:20:18,308.05 Oftentimes people forget that there might be like that Joint Home Depot credit card that you have from a long time ago. 176 00:20:19,278.05 --> 00:20:20,238.05 But you wanna see what's open. 177 00:20:20,238.05 --> 00:20:21,408.05 You don't wanna close anything. 178 00:20:21,418.05 --> 00:20:24,88.05 but you'd be surprised if there are some. 179 00:20:24,368.05 --> 00:20:25,718.05 Lines of credit that you didn't know. 180 00:20:25,718.05 --> 00:20:31,18.05 You just wanna keep an eye on them to make sure that there's not any abnormal, deaths out there. 181 00:20:31,438.05 --> 00:20:42,748.05 I have seen, like when people file, they, take money out of their house or they do cash back on a joint credit card because people get scared and have that kind of like flight or fright, flight response. 182 00:20:43,318.05 --> 00:20:48,708.05 So those are the two things I would say start, but just pay attention to Hey, this is our mortgage company. 183 00:20:48,708.05 --> 00:20:50,298.05 This is like the name of this. 184 00:20:50,298.05 --> 00:20:55,528.05 And to know, but there's like a complete document checklist I have when I meet with my clients. 185 00:20:55,538.05 --> 00:20:57,518.05 The mortgage obviously is important. 186 00:20:58,88.05 --> 00:21:07,978.05 And then that credit report, those are all key documents and yeah, we should all know where those things are located. 187 00:21:08,488.05 --> 00:21:25,498.05 When a woman is going through a divorce, how do step in, in the aftermath after consulting with her? Is that a continued relationship that you have with that client? So there's three different parts Okay. 188 00:21:25,578.05 --> 00:21:27,18.05 That I can help with. 189 00:21:27,78.05 --> 00:21:30,948.05 One, like we talked about before is the pre-divorce financial planning. 190 00:21:31,348.05 --> 00:21:34,528.05 And that sometimes is just let's get organized. 191 00:21:34,578.05 --> 00:21:35,838.05 I'm thinking about it. 192 00:21:35,838.05 --> 00:21:37,128.05 I'm not quite sure. 193 00:21:37,158.05 --> 00:21:39,78.05 I need to know what documents I need. 194 00:21:39,78.05 --> 00:21:41,268.05 I know it's gonna take some time to gather that. 195 00:21:42,18.05 --> 00:21:44,988.05 Information up and get emotionally prepared to do it. 196 00:21:45,68.05 --> 00:21:46,718.05 that's like the beforehand. 197 00:21:47,148.05 --> 00:21:54,618.05 Sometimes people just say, all right, give me an hour and tell me what I need to find, and then I'll start finding it and come back to you later. 198 00:21:54,888.05 --> 00:22:03,678.05 Through the mediation or divorce process again, I can be either a neutral or an advocate, so depending upon how I get brought in And I can help with the settlement option. 199 00:22:03,678.05 --> 00:22:07,338.05 So a recent case I was working on couple was amicable. 200 00:22:07,338.05 --> 00:22:08,628.05 They were in mediation. 201 00:22:09,873.05 --> 00:22:13,53.05 And they had to equalize their retirement accounts. 202 00:22:13,53.05 --> 00:22:17,223.05 There were some accounts that were established before the couple got married. 203 00:22:17,643.05 --> 00:22:20,373.05 So in New York State, that's considered separate property. 204 00:22:20,883.05 --> 00:22:24,363.05 That was considered separate property and the growth on that separate property. 205 00:22:24,363.05 --> 00:22:36,633.05 So we have to figure out not just what they had when they got married, but how much their portion grew while they were married, and then separate what they contributed with marital funds. 206 00:22:37,713.05 --> 00:22:39,843.05 Going forward and what that growth was. 207 00:22:39,843.05 --> 00:22:43,533.05 So there, there's some math that goes into that and some calculations. 208 00:22:43,683.05 --> 00:23:04,398.05 And then we were trading off assets as far as, okay, one client needed a little more liquidity for buying a house, the other person wanted more of their retirement assets, and how do we offset that with tax calculations? So during the divorce I can look at the settlement options and sometimes people just call me and they're ready to sign and they're like, Hey. 209 00:23:05,278.05 --> 00:23:23,238.05 Can I have one hour consultation? Can you just sign this? And is there any red flags here? Is there anything that I should be worried about or be hesitant about with the finances of this breakdown? And then the last part is that post-divorce transition assistance and it's. 210 00:23:24,183.05 --> 00:23:26,133.05 Hey, now I'm divorced. 211 00:23:26,823.05 --> 00:23:32,833.05 I now have, either a whole house or proceeds from a house. 212 00:23:33,223.05 --> 00:23:39,163.05 I have a lump sum of retirement money that I didn't have before that I don't know how to manage. 213 00:23:39,883.05 --> 00:23:48,733.05 Now I have a budget that I need to, start beefing up my retirement and start paying these bills by myself without my spouse there. 214 00:23:48,793.05 --> 00:23:54,313.05 And so I can help really that handholding process of okay, how to establish that. 215 00:23:54,313.05 --> 00:23:57,883.05 And so sometimes I do a piece and sometimes I do soup to nuts. 216 00:23:57,883.05 --> 00:24:01,783.05 It just depends where you are in the process and where we meet. 217 00:24:01,838.05 --> 00:24:11,918.05 But I'm happy to just do those little pieces because even sometimes one hour with me or A-C-V-F-A can really give you that clarity that you need and that peace of mind. 218 00:24:11,918.05 --> 00:24:17,348.05 And I think that's really important that it doesn't have to be this huge, long investment. 219 00:24:17,468.05 --> 00:24:22,298.05 Like we're happy to do that, but we will also just do a checkup, right? Like a consult. 220 00:24:22,298.05 --> 00:24:24,188.05 Hey, let's get a second opinion. 221 00:24:24,188.05 --> 00:24:33,703.05 Let's make sure, looking at it from not just a legal lens, but from a financial lens, am I going to be okay? And if not, how should I change this? Yeah. 222 00:24:34,763.05 --> 00:24:44,243.05 Can you give us like one or two examples? I always think these are the most important things where listeners can understand how you actually help an actual person. 223 00:24:44,243.05 --> 00:24:47,513.05 Obviously, keeping everything in confidence. 224 00:24:47,513.05 --> 00:24:55,973.05 But give us like a couple of examples where you work with a woman, really changed the outcome of their divorce. 225 00:24:58,88.05 --> 00:25:10,148.05 So this case that I was working on in the past, the wife was the money spouse and the breadwinner and was diligently putting her money away. 226 00:25:11,228.05 --> 00:25:14,918.05 For long before she got married, she was just a really good saver. 227 00:25:15,348.05 --> 00:25:19,608.05 And so she had some assets prior to the marriage. 228 00:25:19,878.05 --> 00:25:28,828.05 Then they got married and she really floated the marriage for quite some time and continued to put into her retirement. 229 00:25:29,193.05 --> 00:25:36,93.05 Her Roth, her 4 57, her 401k, she was such a good saver and really planning for that next phase. 230 00:25:36,153.05 --> 00:25:41,243.05 And her spouse wasn't as good as a saver, right? His income wasn't as steady. 231 00:25:41,723.05 --> 00:25:45,713.05 And so we're now at the table. 232 00:25:45,743.05 --> 00:25:50,783.05 They're meeting with a mediator and they have to equalize some of their assets. 233 00:25:53,673.05 --> 00:25:56,538.05 Like I said before, there was assets prior to marriage. 234 00:25:56,568.05 --> 00:26:01,233.05 So we had to see what assets she had prior to marriage. 235 00:26:01,233.05 --> 00:26:08,123.05 And it doesn't always just like line up, right? first we had to contact the previous, the old statements. 236 00:26:08,153.05 --> 00:26:10,943.05 We had to, find the statements of before they got married. 237 00:26:11,283.05 --> 00:26:15,393.05 And then the statements right after they got married and it was in the middle of the month. 238 00:26:15,393.05 --> 00:26:18,913.05 So we had to do some calculations You need to know what questions to ask. 239 00:26:18,913.05 --> 00:26:35,743.05 And so we went back to the provider to say were there any additions to this, these accounts? 'cause there was multiples through the marriage and we tried to do a separate property tracing to see how much of this account is marital and how much of it is separate. 240 00:26:35,743.05 --> 00:26:40,843.05 And because it we're going back 20 years, there was a big run up in the market. 241 00:26:40,843.05 --> 00:26:41,923.05 So the money. 242 00:26:42,723.05 --> 00:26:49,83.05 That was originally deposited prior, like the snapshot of account was about like $80,000. 243 00:26:49,83.05 --> 00:26:52,793.05 That was premarital, that it looked like. 244 00:26:52,853.05 --> 00:26:52,913.05 Yeah. 245 00:26:52,913.05 --> 00:26:58,733.05 And so somebody else, an attorney and mediator, they might just say, okay, we're gonna carve out $80,000. 246 00:26:58,733.05 --> 00:27:01,133.05 And that's what you had prior to marriage. 247 00:27:02,843.05 --> 00:27:04,433.05 But it's not just $80,000. 248 00:27:04,463.05 --> 00:27:08,663.05 It's where that $80,000 grew to today. 249 00:27:08,693.05 --> 00:27:17,803.05 So then we went back to check and in this instance, we were able to trace the actual positions and the shares and see what it grew to. 250 00:27:17,803.05 --> 00:27:27,673.05 And that $80,000 grew to, it was like $370,000 of assets that we carved out to be separate property. 251 00:27:28,968.05 --> 00:27:43,128.05 And so if I didn't do that due diligence and really do that, peel back the layers of the onion and really call the administrator to see where the other additions were, to see all that things we could have just said, okay. 252 00:27:43,128.05 --> 00:27:45,768.05 Someone else might have just said, okay, 80,000, this is yours. 253 00:27:45,768.05 --> 00:27:47,63.05 Everything else is marital. 254 00:27:48,108.05 --> 00:28:00,738.05 When you really start to look at it through a different lens, we were able to show her that $80,000 really is worth $370,000 today, and this is all separate and not part of the marital pool that we're gonna split. 255 00:28:03,348.05 --> 00:28:03,648.05 Yeah. 256 00:28:03,698.05 --> 00:28:11,38.05 I can't see how anybody could figure that out on their own, especially if you're going back to 20 years. 257 00:28:12,138.05 --> 00:28:16,608.05 Luckily it is that luckily the plan administrator was actually really good getting us the statements. 258 00:28:16,608.05 --> 00:28:24,858.05 'cause that's sometimes the hold up is like finding, not everything was digital back then, right? To get those statements that are digitized now. 259 00:28:24,858.05 --> 00:28:28,278.05 It's a little easier, but we were going back to 2008. 260 00:28:28,328.05 --> 00:28:28,628.05 Yeah. 261 00:28:29,183.05 --> 00:28:33,533.05 And so yeah, we were able to get the statements and able to locate it. 262 00:28:33,533.05 --> 00:28:41,543.05 And so in that case, the wife was very happy, that I was able to do that due diligence and find the separate property for her. 263 00:28:41,593.05 --> 00:28:49,113.05 Any other examples that may make our listeners be like, I need to contact Melissa. 264 00:28:50,413.05 --> 00:28:52,633.05 So there's another case that I'm working on right now. 265 00:28:52,643.05 --> 00:29:06,23.05 And they have a house that's almost paid off and they have, they don't have a lot of liquid assets, so the majority of their assets they put into paying off their house, but all their other assets are retirement assets. 266 00:29:06,23.05 --> 00:29:08,783.05 So one of the spouses wants to keep the house. 267 00:29:10,328.05 --> 00:29:18,788.05 The husband wants to keep the house and the wife doesn't care about the house and is happy to move out, and so she needs to be bought out of the house. 268 00:29:19,368.05 --> 00:29:26,358.05 But there's no liquidity there and they don't want to get a mortgage rate in today's rates. 269 00:29:26,408.05 --> 00:29:36,438.05 Great divorce, so they're going to trade off retirement assets, but the money that's owed is $500,000 for the equity in the house. 270 00:29:37,563.05 --> 00:29:47,53.05 And so it's not just $500,000 in retirement assets that we can gift to her in lieu of the house because we're, we have to take taxes into consideration. 271 00:29:47,563.05 --> 00:29:48,163.05 Today. 272 00:29:48,503.05 --> 00:29:55,973.05 And on the flip side of that, so it ended up being $120,000 in taxes that we had to gross up. 273 00:29:55,973.05 --> 00:30:09,533.05 So instead of getting $500,000 in cash, she end up getting $620,000 in retirement assets because she's gonna have to pay tax on those funds when she takes them out in retirement. 274 00:30:09,893.05 --> 00:30:27,413.05 But in order to find out which tax bracket she was gonna be in, I had to look at her pension, her income, her social security, and really do a projection as far as we don't wanna miscalculate, because if you underestimate, then she's gonna have to pay more if she overestimates. 275 00:30:28,733.05 --> 00:30:33,953.05 And when they came to me, they were thinking about just cashing it out now. 276 00:30:34,808.05 --> 00:30:45,308.05 That the retirement account and just giving it from the husband to the wife, and in which case, they would've been in the 32% bracket. 277 00:30:45,308.05 --> 00:30:50,928.05 And so it would've taken even more money to equalize that. 278 00:30:50,928.05 --> 00:30:58,778.05 So it was crazy, if they would've taken it out directly and then gave, given her the cash if she needed it to buy like a house today. 279 00:31:00,248.05 --> 00:31:01,508.05 It would've been a lot more money. 280 00:31:01,508.05 --> 00:31:03,818.05 So I save them a lot of money in taxes. 281 00:31:03,818.05 --> 00:31:20,888.05 Once I really asked the questions of, Hey, are we buying a house now? Or can we buy something in the future and where, when are we gonna take this money out? So it's just really doing that deep dive that really matters and making sure that we are very transparent with the taxes. 282 00:31:20,918.05 --> 00:31:24,218.05 'cause that's what can really change somebody's financial situation. 283 00:31:24,268.05 --> 00:31:30,848.05 Yeah, I think this is awesome because, we all have our individual professions, but we don't do what you do. 284 00:31:30,848.05 --> 00:31:42,323.05 so hopefully, I don't wish divorce on anyone, but if it does happen, it makes all sense, for women to be in touch with you, for you to be their ally. 285 00:31:42,608.05 --> 00:31:45,998.05 we've talked a lot and a lot of this has been, very illuminating. 286 00:31:45,998.05 --> 00:31:52,408.05 I feel like this is a carryover from our first episode together, but a little bit more of a niche, obviously. 287 00:31:53,608.05 --> 00:31:57,868.05 I'm very pro financial communication and financial literacy. 288 00:31:58,228.05 --> 00:32:03,178.05 And if you do find yourself that, divorce is on the. 289 00:32:03,598.05 --> 00:32:05,758.05 Your doorstep, build your team. 290 00:32:06,128.05 --> 00:32:07,508.05 I can't stress that enough. 291 00:32:07,508.05 --> 00:32:15,138.05 Just getting that emotional support, that financial support and the correct legal support through this process and knowing that. 292 00:32:16,848.05 --> 00:32:24,28.05 You will get through this, but you wanna get through this with people that you like, trust and respect to get you through this. 293 00:32:24,298.05 --> 00:32:24,568.05 Yeah. 294 00:32:25,258.05 --> 00:32:32,28.05 You have this code where obviously, at least on YouTube, people can use their phones to find you. 295 00:32:32,298.05 --> 00:32:40,618.05 But for my Apple Podcast listeners tell us about your social media handles or what is your website so that people can find you. 296 00:32:40,688.05 --> 00:32:41,618.05 And learn about you. 297 00:32:42,138.05 --> 00:32:48,738.05 My company's name is Mindful Divorce Partners and it's just www.mindfuldivorcepartners.com. 298 00:32:49,248.05 --> 00:33:06,818.05 On my website, you can book a complimentary consultation to get on my calendar if I am not the right person for you or if you want somebody in person, I'm happy to connect you to the professionals within my network that I've vetted to find you the right support that you need for your divorce. 299 00:33:07,803.05 --> 00:33:10,143.05 Thank you so much for joining me again. 300 00:33:10,573.05 --> 00:33:13,448.05 Yes, both the first one as well as this one. 301 00:33:13,448.05 --> 00:33:20,618.05 I really think that it helps empower women to take charge of their personal lives as well as their financial lives. 302 00:33:21,38.05 --> 00:33:21,668.05 Thank you. 303 00:33:21,668.05 --> 00:33:25,768.05 And don't forget to like, share and review my podcast. 304 00:33:26,318.05 --> 00:33:30,108.05 Remember, it's always ladies first on Soma Says. 305 00:33:30,408.05 --> 00:33:34,68.05 Let's make a difference one conversation at a time.
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