The Work-Life Trap: Why Balance is a Myth & How Women Can Break Free

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In this episode of Soma Says, Dr. Soma is joined by Amalya Tagakchyan, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and founder of Untangled Path Therapy in Los Angeles. With over a decade of experience, Amalya specializes in helping adults and couples navigate mental health challenges, including anxiety, relationship struggles, perinatal mental health, self-esteem, and burnout.

The conversation dives into work-life balance, societal pressures, the impact of social media, and the importance of self-care and self-compassion. Amalya also shares practical strategies for managing stress and highlights why recognizing emotional burnout is key to long-term well-being. Plus, we explore the role of employers in fostering mental wellness and creating a more compassionate and flexible work environment.

Timestamps: 🎙️ 00:00 – Introduction to Today's Episode 🎙️ 00:57 – Meet Amalya Tagakchyan 🎙️ 03:27 – The Concept of Work-Life Balance 🎙️ 07:09 – Redefining Self-Worth and Expectations 🎙️ 10:22 – The Impact of Social Media on Mental Health 🎙️ 21:47 – Coping Mechanisms for Working Mothers 🎙️ 33:24 – Employer's Role in Supporting Mental Health 🎙️ 41:43 – Recognizing and Addressing Burnout 🎙️ 49:33 – Conclusion and Final Thoughts

You can find more about Amalya Tagakchyan, LCSW at https://untangledpaththerapy.com/

Connect with Amalya Tagakchyan, LCSW on IG: https://www.instagram.com/amalya_talks_therapy/?hl=en

Connect with Dr. Soma Mandal, MD at https://www.somamandalmd.com/

Connect with Dr. Soma Mandal, MD on IG at https://www.instagram.com/drsomamandalmd/?hl=en

 

#SomaSays #MentalHealthMatters #BurnoutRecovery #SelfCare #WorkLifeBalance #Therapy #WomenInWellness

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
On today’s episode of Soma Says, we're joined by Amalya Tagathchin, a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and the founder of Untangled Path Therapy in Los Angeles.

(00:09):
With over a decade of experience, Amalya specializes in helping adults and couples navigate anxiety, relationship challenges, perinatal mental health, self-esteem, and burnout. 3 00:00:21,312.5 --> 00:00:29,792.5 Fluent in both Armenian and English, she takes a multicultural approach, breaking down cultural barriers to foster self-awareness and personal growth. 4 00:00:30,172.5 --> 00:00:38,892.5 She integrates evidence-based therapies like CBT, ACT, DBT, and The Gottman Method, tailoring her approach to each client’s unique journey. 5 00:00:39,762.5 --> 00:00:47,902.5 Join us as we dive into the complexities of mental health, relationships, and the power of therapy in untangling life’s challenges. 6 00:00:48,472.5 --> 00:00:58,70.187 You won’t want to miss this insightful conversation! Hi, this is Dr. 7 00:00:58,70.187 --> 00:00:58,540.187 Soma. 8 00:00:58,840.187 --> 00:01:05,930.187 Just a disclaimer, this podcast is for informational purposes only and isn't intended as medical advice. 9 00:01:06,290.187 --> 00:01:12,110.187 Always consult with your doctor before making any changes to your diet, exercise, or health regimen. 10 00:01:12,460.187 --> 00:01:13,450.187 Let's go to the show. 11 00:01:39,50.187 --> 00:01:50,160.187 Rest is productive and that it is critical to be productive versus something that is sometimes identified as lazy or unproductive or selfish. 12 00:01:51,885.357 --> 00:01:54,215.357 speak to yourself how you would speak to a good friend. 13 00:01:54,235.357 --> 00:02:00,365.357 If you wouldn't speak to a good friend, then you wouldn't shame them for taking care of themselves and taking time out of 15 minute walk around the block. 14 00:02:00,405.356 --> 00:02:19,680.528 Why on earth would you do that to yourself? So we are in an age where your status, where the letters behind your name, where your salary, where everything, your degree, so much of that is tied to self worth. 15 00:02:19,690.528 --> 00:02:25,640.528 So when that's gone, it's essentially a part of you feels like it's ripped away. 16 00:02:27,375.698 --> 00:02:39,85.698 I wanted to officially welcome you to my podcast and tell me about yourself in terms of your everyday job and what drew an interest to wanting to be on my podcast. 17 00:02:40,895.698 --> 00:02:46,955.698 Any time the topic of mental health comes up, it lights up my soul. 18 00:02:47,865.698 --> 00:02:57,165.697 Essentially I've been a therapist, mental health professional for the last Oof, is it 12 years at this point? 12 years. 19 00:02:57,525.697 --> 00:03:06,285.797 I've been in private practice for 8 years, and the last I founded my solo private practice, Untangled Path Therapy based out of Los Angeles. 20 00:03:06,815.797 --> 00:03:24,210.7965 And, again, when there's a conversation to be had and a platform that's given to talk about mental health, especially for women, especially for quote unquote, modern day women who are trying to deal Kind of accomplish just a bit of everything while tending to their mental health. 21 00:03:24,500.7965 --> 00:03:25,760.7965 It always piques my interest. 22 00:03:26,70.7965 --> 00:03:26,520.7965 Yeah. 23 00:03:27,50.7965 --> 00:03:31,930.7955 That's what drew me to you because as I do focus a lot on women's health. 24 00:03:31,930.7955 --> 00:03:33,130.796 I talk a lot about it. 25 00:03:33,390.795 --> 00:03:44,530.797 I see a lot of it in my own practice and some of The same things are my own challenges as, being a working mother. 26 00:03:45,10.797 --> 00:03:58,850.797 So I was hoping to focus on work life balance to this day, despite being in practice for over 25 years and being a mom for, half of that time. 27 00:03:59,250.797 --> 00:04:36,364.096 I still struggle with work life balance, and it's a big issue that comes up in my practice as well, in terms of patients their stress, their sleep, and as they approach midlife, all those things do impact their hormones and can make their perimenopausal or menopausal symptoms worse Wanting to really hone in on what work life balance means for you and how you basically talk to your patients about it. 28 00:04:38,664.095 --> 00:04:58,169.095 Try to be cautious of saying balance because as much as it's a knee jerk response and we all use it, colloquially or whatnot I feel like while we use it and it's so accepted, it still has like upholds the sense of that it's possible. 29 00:04:58,739.095 --> 00:05:03,29.095 So I A long time ago, someone said it's more like a work life seesaw. 30 00:05:03,589.095 --> 00:05:08,599.095 So there's something that's always going to be somewhat sacrificed more than the other. 31 00:05:08,619.095 --> 00:05:27,354.1945 And with that, of course, comes the natural feelings of stress and frustration and even Inaccuracy, unhappiness a sense of fulfillment or unfulfillment with trying to juggle the what I think are very unrealistic standards. 32 00:05:27,724.1945 --> 00:05:30,424.1945 So I feel like sometimes it's more of a seesaw than a balance. 33 00:05:30,834.1945 --> 00:05:33,14.1945 To where some sometimes it is, it's going to be working. 34 00:05:33,294.1945 --> 00:05:35,774.194 That's going to be incredibly successful. 35 00:05:35,774.194 --> 00:05:37,434.1945 However, you personally define that. 36 00:05:37,444.1945 --> 00:05:43,44.1945 And other times it's going to be personal and sometimes on the luckiest of days, it could be both. 37 00:05:43,124.1945 --> 00:05:48,984.1945 But I think this unspoken expectation and I'm sure we'll dive into it of everything that comes with. 38 00:05:49,214.1945 --> 00:05:56,184.1945 Women and what that work, quote unquote, work life balance is has a lot of unspoken expectations and standards that often feel unrealistic. 39 00:05:57,294.1945 --> 00:06:29,444.1945 I think that's a great way to, to phrase it though, and I keep seeing a natural seesaw in front of my face because there have been times where I've asked and told myself, you can't have everything so you can either accept this, and this will be good enough for now, but you cannot necessarily have a total balance of everything, especially as a woman, because we take care of our Children. 40 00:06:29,444.1945 --> 00:06:30,814.1945 We take care of our spouses. 41 00:06:30,814.1945 --> 00:06:33,144.1945 We are often in the workforce. 42 00:06:33,634.1945 --> 00:06:39,4.1935 And there are some of us who are also taking care of our parents as well. 43 00:06:39,204.1945 --> 00:06:44,284.1945 So that sandwich causes more of an imbalance than anything else. 44 00:06:44,864.1945 --> 00:06:57,994.1945 I think One of the expressions that someone wise one said to me when I was stressing out about not being a good mother was that you just have to be good enough. 45 00:06:58,14.1935 --> 00:06:59,774.1935 You don't have to be perfect. 46 00:07:00,474.1945 --> 00:07:09,414.1945 And I think a lot of us seek that perfection and it causes more stress for us. 47 00:07:09,644.1945 --> 00:07:16,604.0945 How do you guide your patients with these kind of issues? And that's. 48 00:07:17,844.1945 --> 00:07:45,519.1925 One of the most common topics that come up because whether it's continuously perpetuated through societal expectations or cultural expectations or our own self imposed standards and expectations it, we wanted to fit into this perfect puzzle piece of being able to do, personal and professional and trying to make it all Look perfect. 49 00:07:45,719.1925 --> 00:08:00,39.1915 And I want to be careful with that word look because on the outside exterior and especially when we're looking at societal norms and what social media loves to portray and encourage and highlight the highlight reels. 50 00:08:00,59.1925 --> 00:08:13,399.0915 I have a ton to say about that, but I think it's, that's what's driving this sense of I have to be perfect versus I know some days I will stumble in one domain of my life. 51 00:08:13,569.0925 --> 00:08:15,619.0925 Another time I will stumble another domain. 52 00:08:15,619.0925 --> 00:08:26,469.0925 So something that I often encourage and work through with my clients is having them redefine what their own good enough is or what their own. 53 00:08:26,519.0915 --> 00:08:37,289.0925 And I don't, I never used the word perfect because it just, it would do a complete disservice to both them and myself where you're just trying to encourage something that is just not going to be met. 54 00:08:37,639.0925 --> 00:09:03,179.1915 But we're very much re examining and redefining, one, where do these expectations and where does this definition come from? Is it coming from mom and dad? Is it coming from your spouse? Is it coming from your children? Is it coming from what your professor in grad school told you? What the standard should be like and what, professionalism should be like and so on and so forth and success. 55 00:09:03,909.1915 --> 00:09:10,179.1915 Where is that actually coming from? Where is that inner voice? Where is that inner definition coming from? Look at that and let's explore that a little bit. 56 00:09:10,179.1915 --> 00:09:25,119.1915 And then two, how does that actually align with your own? Which one of us is in your own, is it your own voice? And often what I find is that what we have internalized to be our own script, our own narrative, is somebody else's voice. 57 00:09:25,214.2915 --> 00:09:26,240.7715 So I'm going to talk a little bit about how voice is turned up. 58 00:09:26,420.8715 --> 00:09:58,790.8715 So what we do a lot of my practice is we recognize whose voice that is first, and we see the need of dialing that down and then increasing when we are able to find our own voice with our own definition that makes sense to us, not society, not mom, not your professor, not your boss, not your spouse, us, what that good enough is, what upholding realistic standards and expectations and For yourself as a mother, as a professional, as a woman, period, are. 59 00:09:58,890.8715 --> 00:10:00,50.8715 So we do a lot of that work. 60 00:10:01,470.8715 --> 00:10:10,540.8715 I think a successful day sometimes is, yeah, the, we managed to get dinner on the table and that doesn't necessarily mean either either of us have cooked. 61 00:10:11,0.8715 --> 00:10:18,80.8705 The kids are are safely sat in bed and we've managed to put the dishes away. 62 00:10:18,460.8705 --> 00:10:20,660.8715 That for us can be a good enough day. 63 00:10:21,700.8715 --> 00:10:21,940.8715 Absolutely. 64 00:10:22,235.8715 --> 00:10:38,5.8715 You were mentioning and it's interesting because I was having this conversation with someone about how social media does play a significant role in terms of creating expectations or, our ideas of what we should be. 65 00:10:38,505.8715 --> 00:10:41,925.8715 Can you talk more about that? Yeah, absolutely. 66 00:10:42,25.8715 --> 00:11:04,805.8705 They're, even if we're just categorizing the, just even influencers aside, when we're looking at just professionals, people we look up to doctors, mental health professionals even celebrities who like to, on their own soapbox, drive certain messages home podcasters, so much influencers in a complete array of ways. 67 00:11:05,285.8705 --> 00:11:22,395.8705 People who are so influential to their own audience, and so much of that kind of the golden standard ends up being like if you meet steps one through five by 5am in the morning, then you have set the tone for a successful day and if you haven't. 68 00:11:22,840.8705 --> 00:11:40,520.869 You're screwed, like essentially, to put it in like a comedic way, but really it highlights what we're trying, like we're trying to push, this agenda we're trying to push of, if you didn't wake up in five, then you have already lost the day, for one example. 69 00:11:40,520.869 --> 00:11:43,240.8685 Now, I will say two things about that. 70 00:11:43,530.8685 --> 00:12:21,30.9685 I think it absolutely benefits anyone if they have the capacity and the ability to wake up early and get ahead like planning ahead and even like especially for moms like having your cup of coffee warm hot as intended even having that time to yourself can feel sacred and can feel productive so I'm the last person to say that isn't a A benefit, a beneficial way to start your day, but to use that as a gold standard, especially when we're looking at somebody who lets you work the graveyard shift or a sleep deprived mom who woke up four times at night. 71 00:12:21,30.9695 --> 00:12:24,530.9685 And, five o'clock is just one of those times that they're feeding their child. 72 00:12:25,20.9685 --> 00:12:30,655.8685 I think glorifying these golden standards that supposed to make it. 73 00:12:31,175.9685 --> 00:12:35,985.9685 Everyone fit into a certain mold and then say, this is what we're all striving for. 74 00:12:35,985.9685 --> 00:12:39,495.9685 And if you don't meet this, then you're just not doing it right. 75 00:12:39,535.9685 --> 00:12:42,775.9675 And then everyone kind of shares that and tries to strive for that. 76 00:12:43,355.9675 --> 00:12:51,435.9685 And we don't look at the subtle nuances in between of everyone's personal challenges and what's behind the highlight reels that are being shared. 77 00:12:51,455.9685 --> 00:13:03,785.9675 So And that's, I think, when we speak a lot to mental health and mental health challenges of, somebody, let's say, with depression is going to have a significantly harder time waking up at 5am. 78 00:13:04,115.9685 --> 00:13:10,275.9675 But we're saying you have to do this in order to set yourself up for success and accomplish all your goals. 79 00:13:10,735.9685 --> 00:13:14,265.9685 That's a personal battle and that's something that usually isn't. 80 00:13:14,530.9685 --> 00:13:51,265.9685 Highlighted but when we're looking at when we're scrolling social media that comes up and when we see that it's okay now I need to uphold myself to this and if I don't well now there's a decreased sense of self There's a decreased sense of self esteem and we feel are worth dropping and we feel like we're not doing enough and so It becomes this like cyclical thought that takes place of I didn't do this thing That social media told me to do in order to be successful to do the right thing to show up as my best self And now we're caught up in this complete vicious cycle of, I didn't do what I think I'm supposed to be doing. 81 00:13:53,25.9685 --> 00:13:53,845.9685 So detrimental. 82 00:13:54,315.9675 --> 00:13:55,285.9685 Can't be so detrimental. 83 00:13:55,835.9685 --> 00:14:15,605.9695 It can, and I'm, as you're speaking, I'm thinking about other realms where I find women can behave like this, where, it could be about their weight, and if they haven't done everything perfectly then they get very hard on themselves and often give up altogether. 84 00:14:16,545.9695 --> 00:14:26,855.9685 So I think it's an, for a lot of us, it can be an all or nothing kind of approach, which is not realistic. 85 00:14:28,85.9695 --> 00:14:44,175.9695 It's not realistic, right? That being said, I do think there are some things that we as human beings, not just as women, should be doing and it doesn't have to be at five o'clock in the morning, and it doesn't have to be on a daily basis. 86 00:14:44,505.9685 --> 00:15:01,85.9695 But what are some of the things that you do advocate for women to do so that they can have it? a healthier life mentally, physically, and not feel so stressed all the time between, work and their own lives as well. 87 00:15:03,45.9695 --> 00:15:08,595.9695 I think this is going to be tailored to each person and what season. 88 00:15:08,820.9695 --> 00:15:16,150.9695 In life that they're in, which I think sometimes falls into the background where we set the you must do this and then you must do that and you must do that. 89 00:15:16,500.9695 --> 00:15:17,910.9695 And then not everybody fits that mold. 90 00:15:17,920.9695 --> 00:15:29,100.9695 And then, like I said end up feeling really poorly about yourself and that all or nothing thinking which is, it could be completely irrational and self defeating when we don't look at things at the shades of gray. 91 00:15:29,100.9695 --> 00:15:33,670.9695 So maybe that's a great place to start off with where it's important to look. 92 00:15:33,900.9695 --> 00:15:53,610.9685 At whether it's goals or achievements big or small personal or professional or especially since we're on topic, mental health related, where we need to look at things more of a shades of gray in the season of life that you're in versus kind of a catch all term of this is where you're supposed to be. 93 00:15:53,630.9695 --> 00:16:06,370.9695 30, if you are not Married and if you do not have children and if you aren't making six figures and you're not a size four You're not doing well enough. 94 00:16:06,640.9695 --> 00:16:21,680.971 And, if we continue to set those as we need to achieve this and we need to look like this and we need to abide by these standards then it is continuously perpetuating that same cycle that we're in. 95 00:16:21,680.971 --> 00:16:23,470.8715 So recognizing that. 96 00:16:23,740.9715 --> 00:16:38,800.9715 One, your season of life looks different than somebody else's, and that you're allowed to live in that shade of grey versus a very black or white type of thinking, that kind of all or nothing thinking, which does set us up for, it could set us up for failure, essentially. 97 00:16:39,90.9715 --> 00:16:39,670.9705 That's one. 98 00:16:40,610.9715 --> 00:17:09,511.0735 Two, I think, across the board I think I mentioned earlier on where there are these unspoken expectations, and I wouldn't even say, not just for Not just for moms who do uphold a lot of kind of the default parenting and silent struggles and invisible labor and things that kind of may go unnoticed in recognizing the absolute need for two things, in my opinion one thought. 99 00:17:09,966.0735 --> 00:17:21,76.0735 Rest is productive and that it is critical to be productive versus something that is sometimes identified as lazy or unproductive or selfish. 100 00:17:21,616.0735 --> 00:17:23,646.0735 I think moms sometimes struggle. 101 00:17:23,646.1735 --> 00:17:27,716.0735 I think moms sometimes struggle with this where it is. 102 00:17:28,86.0735 --> 00:17:29,116.0735 And I work with a. 103 00:17:29,946.0735 --> 00:17:47,986.0735 A good number of moms and working with, perinatal mental health under that umbrella, where so much of our dialogue and so much of the narrative that we have to work on is recognizing that this is a critical component for you to show up as your best self by accepting. 104 00:17:48,446.0735 --> 00:18:13,36.0735 this idea of rust and you can define it to however it is but we need to remove this notion that it's selfish we need to remove this notion that the all or nothing like you don't love your children if you take care of yourself first or because you took care of yourself that you don't care about your family or any kind of very almost kind of egregious statements that are taken and ran with so rest being productive. 105 00:18:13,66.0735 --> 00:18:21,806.0725 And then in that same category, I would say the second thing would be very much recognizing what your own self care and your self compassion looks like. 106 00:18:22,256.0725 --> 00:18:24,626.0735 So we equate self care with the. 107 00:18:24,886.0735 --> 00:18:38,376.0725 Age old cliches, not that I was the last person to not encourage, a massage or, a manicure or any such things, but really self care, recognizing like, I need to ask for help and asking for help is my self care. 108 00:18:38,456.0735 --> 00:18:47,556.0735 So I need to take an hour to myself to go walk around, block, or to go catch up with a friend, something that taps into my own identity. 109 00:18:47,596.0735 --> 00:18:50,976.0735 And then I can come back and continue my role as, let's say in this example. 110 00:18:51,121.0735 --> 00:18:53,791.0735 Being a mother, tending to my children, taking care of them. 111 00:18:54,101.0735 --> 00:18:56,751.0735 So me taking care of myself is my self care. 112 00:18:57,251.0735 --> 00:18:59,201.0735 Critical, across the board, for all women. 113 00:18:59,211.0735 --> 00:19:00,451.0735 No matter, mother or not. 114 00:19:00,921.0735 --> 00:19:09,331.0725 And the self compassion part comes in where we, myself included, am guilty of being our own worst critic, essentially. 115 00:19:10,51.0735 --> 00:19:15,11.0735 And having a lot of these self imposed standards set on us where we stop being kind. 116 00:19:15,371.0735 --> 00:19:20,901.0735 So our internal voice and our internal dialogue becomes really mean. 117 00:19:21,371.0735 --> 00:19:34,661.0725 And what I often like to say with my clients is, is what you're telling yourself something that you would tell a good So when we look at self compassion, it's how you essentially short kind of casual definition is speak to yourself how you would speak to a good friend. 118 00:19:34,681.0725 --> 00:19:40,811.0725 If you wouldn't speak to a good friend, then you wouldn't shame them for taking care of themselves and taking time out of 15 minute walk around the block. 119 00:19:40,851.0715 --> 00:19:47,610.973 Why on earth would you do that to yourself? So self care and self compassion become very critical and recognizing that. 120 00:19:47,861.073 --> 00:19:53,11.073 Depending on the season of life you're in, that shades of gray has to be implemented, no matter what. 121 00:19:54,381.073 --> 00:20:07,281.073 I think just stepping back sometimes, because I think we're all guilty of it, including myself, where, I can't think of exactly what I say to myself, but A lot harder than I would be on anyone else. 122 00:20:07,741.073 --> 00:20:16,951.073 And one of the things that I've realized as my children have gotten older is that they watch you, whether you realize it or not. 123 00:20:17,471.073 --> 00:20:23,645.973 And especially for our daughters, if you want them to have that. 124 00:20:24,986.073 --> 00:20:27,336.073 That see saw that we were talking about. 125 00:20:27,336.073 --> 00:20:30,456.073 I was about to use the word balance, but I changed it. 126 00:20:30,876.073 --> 00:20:31,676.073 We played. 127 00:20:32,266.073 --> 00:20:37,546.073 We are their role models, whether we realize it or not, we are their role models. 128 00:20:37,546.073 --> 00:20:38,566.072 They do watch us. 129 00:20:38,836.073 --> 00:20:40,686.072 So when they do watch us. 130 00:20:41,396.073 --> 00:20:46,966.073 Not taking care of ourselves, not sleeping, not resting, not paying attention to ourselves. 131 00:20:47,446.073 --> 00:20:59,796.073 That serves as a foundation for them in terms of being a parent, in terms of being a future employee, so that pattern continues. 132 00:21:00,466.073 --> 00:21:12,586.072 I come from an immigrant family where it was all about work, and be industrious and prove yourself and not to blame anyone, but because, my parents had to survive in this country. 133 00:21:12,586.073 --> 00:21:14,56.073 They were not from this country. 134 00:21:14,426.072 --> 00:21:18,666.073 They came here and they had to make a living for themselves and for their children. 135 00:21:19,36.073 --> 00:21:24,886.072 But so that, that was not on the shelf for us where self care and. 136 00:21:25,226.073 --> 00:21:31,306.073 Paying attention not just to our physical health emotional health was often not approached. 137 00:21:31,936.073 --> 00:21:47,76.073 But as now a different generation, I realize that I have the opportunity, whereas they may not have, to deal with that, not just with myself, my patients, but also my children. 138 00:21:47,646.073 --> 00:22:03,881.072 For your patients who are Working mothers, what kind of coping mechanisms do you often advise for your women patients who find that? And I've been seeing this a lot. 139 00:22:04,621.073 --> 00:22:16,201.073 I've been seeing a lot of women, especially who've been laid off and they're, they, part of their identity was in that role. 140 00:22:16,466.073 --> 00:22:31,666.073 And I don't know why it is in this past year where I've had patients who've been in this one role for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, and suddenly it's gone and now they have. 141 00:22:32,256.073 --> 00:22:37,746.073 What difficulty finding a new position, ageism is very present in our society. 142 00:22:38,446.073 --> 00:22:44,986.073 And they may be a two employer kind of family where both husband and wife. 143 00:22:45,416.073 --> 00:22:47,146.073 I'm using a generic approach. 144 00:22:47,146.073 --> 00:22:48,996.073 It doesn't have to be a husband and wife. 145 00:22:50,16.072 --> 00:22:56,716.072 Two people are bringing in the income and suddenly the stress has increased even more. 146 00:22:58,26.072 --> 00:23:10,151.073 How do you advise your patients on that kind of scenario? That's it's incredibly tough and extremely common because I think you're speaking to a couple of different things. 147 00:23:10,151.073 --> 00:23:18,971.071 And before I answer your question, I do want to say that I think we're our upbringings are very similar and we're cut from very similar cloth as a first generation Armenian American. 148 00:23:19,11.071 --> 00:23:27,200.972 I watched my parents go through very similar struggles and challenges and recognizing that mental health and self care are very similar. 149 00:23:27,201.072 --> 00:23:34,931.072 Were not only not, they were the options, but they weren't even something that was spoken about. 150 00:23:34,931.072 --> 00:23:44,841.072 It wasn't as, casual as you as to even discuss it on a podcast, let alone to make it a point of conversation was just non-existent. 151 00:23:44,841.072 --> 00:23:47,711.072 So I think we are absolutely. 152 00:23:48,871.072 --> 00:23:55,261.072 As agents of change, creating a different tone here for ourselves and for children and future generations. 153 00:23:55,271.072 --> 00:24:00,271.072 It's just when he said that it struck a chord in me because it's extremely similar. 154 00:24:00,301.071 --> 00:24:01,901.071 And, here we are trying to make that change. 155 00:24:02,321.07 --> 00:24:04,91.07 So it's a bit appreciated. 156 00:24:04,171.072 --> 00:24:05,250.971 And with that. 157 00:24:05,451.071 --> 00:24:16,251.0715 I think also comes potentially a difficulty of watching whether it's someone being laid off or not being able to find the job or, the scenarios that you described. 158 00:24:16,501.0715 --> 00:24:27,221.0735 I think one, looking at the ambiguous grief that takes place with losing an identity of we'll use, we'll use for example's sake being a medical doctor. 159 00:24:27,221.0735 --> 00:24:44,956.0725 So if for the last 20, 30 years, So much of your fabric as a person, as a place, your identity, has been, I am a, I am doctor, blank, I am a medical doctor, and this is who I am, and then that's gone. 160 00:24:45,501.0735 --> 00:24:52,31.0735 We're now exposed to ambiguous grief and going through those emotions as if it was a, a traditional grief that we're looking at. 161 00:24:52,31.0735 --> 00:24:54,271.0725 So we're going through all the stages. 162 00:24:54,271.0735 --> 00:24:55,961.0735 Not nothing linear there. 163 00:24:56,241.0725 --> 00:24:57,841.0725 And we have to sit with that. 164 00:24:57,851.0715 --> 00:24:59,801.0725 But I think so much to answer your question. 165 00:24:59,811.0715 --> 00:25:05,451.0725 I think so much of where that also becomes such an arduous part of our work. 166 00:25:06,271.0725 --> 00:25:12,171.0725 And an impact our emotional and mental well being is because so much of our worth is tied to that. 167 00:25:12,251.0725 --> 00:25:27,291.0735 So we are in an age where your status, where the letters behind your name, where your salary, where everything, your degree, so much of that is tied to self worth. 168 00:25:27,301.0735 --> 00:25:33,251.0735 So when that's gone, it's essentially a part of you feels like it's ripped away. 169 00:25:33,751.0735 --> 00:25:56,81.0735 Settling in with this ambiguous grief and trying to figure out what's left of me and when, and in working with mothers have gone through similar stages like that or are trying to, let's say, so many of them are, they stay at home moms, which I think is 78 jobs in one with no clocking in and clocking out. 170 00:25:56,536.0735 --> 00:25:57,276.0735 Of any sort. 171 00:25:57,556.0735 --> 00:26:06,906.0735 I think when you're taking the step of being a stay at home mom, you've made that conscious decision, that honorable decision of staying home with your kids, nurturing them, taking care of them, raising them. 172 00:26:06,906.0735 --> 00:26:10,236.0735 And then you're like I feel like I'm at a place where I can go into the workforce. 173 00:26:10,236.0735 --> 00:26:18,416.0735 Then it's like the opposite is happening of so much of your worth is, tied into, but I only know how to be a, and then blink. 174 00:26:18,466.0735 --> 00:26:21,456.0735 And we start inserting these roles. 175 00:26:21,811.0735 --> 00:26:24,461.0735 As our entire sense of self. 176 00:26:24,741.0735 --> 00:26:54,780.9735 So when we lose one or the other really becomes this regulating state of I don't know the who I am and I don't know what responsibilities and what role I have to play and where I fit in almost like systematically to where do I fit in with family? Where do I fit in society? Where do I fit in my child's school? Because we place such a heavy weight on profession and are the letters behind your last name and what you do for a living. 177 00:26:54,860.9735 --> 00:27:26,491.0401667 And it is, I think it can reinforce a lot of stress and decrease mental being once so much of your sense of self worth, which is, your sense of self worth as you exist as a human being, and therefore you have value versus you have a certain status and you have value, which Needless to say, is more of what's driven current day and age than because you exist, you have inherent value or because you take care of your children like that is enough to say you have value. 178 00:27:26,811.0401667 --> 00:27:27,751.0401667 It's a common struggle. 179 00:27:27,851.0401667 --> 00:27:48,261.0391667 And I think it's still something that A lot of people are working through and I'm personally trying to assist my own clients and working through that and discovering what self worth actually is, what having a sense of your own value is, what values period are and defining that and how we equate that with just our state of being. 180 00:27:48,811.0391667 --> 00:27:50,941.0391667 So we don't go through this exercise. 181 00:27:51,361.0391667 --> 00:28:06,151.0391667 existential crisis for women who are working mothers or women who are just working and maybe not mothers and Women who are stay at home mothers and then this identity crisis happens for whatever reason. 182 00:28:06,511.0391667 --> 00:28:18,856.0391667 What can we do? One of the things that I always guide my patients on my women patients that is that I always say, look at an opportunity as a revolving door. 183 00:28:18,876.0391667 --> 00:28:49,736.0391667 It may not be fun, but sometimes it's your own body telling you that something is not right, and you have to be open to a new possibility, but you To be honest with you and having gone through these kind of situations, it is often so difficult and you have to stay so strong during that time because as there's no crystal ball on the other end that will say this is what I predict is going to happen for you. 184 00:28:50,396.0391667 --> 00:29:00,851.0391667 So how do we go through those situations? How do we maintain a foundation so we don't lose ourselves? That's a great question. 185 00:29:00,861.0391667 --> 00:29:06,601.0391667 And, I don't know if there's necessarily a straight forward answer to that because it looks different for everybody. 186 00:29:06,601.0391667 --> 00:29:13,511.0401667 But, when we're looking at going through and navigating through this process, I think it is important to highlight values. 187 00:29:13,511.0401667 --> 00:29:24,451.0411667 And I talk about this a lot in my practice of, if let's say something, if one of your values is to be hardworking, then just because you lost your job doesn't mean that you're no longer hardworking. 188 00:29:25,66.0411667 --> 00:29:43,940.9411667 You can be hardworking in all the other realms and find creative ways, especially if, let's say, we're using the example of losing your job or not being able to continue doing something you've been doing for 30 years in having that kind of identity crisis, like you said, I think, recognizing, can I continue to uphold my sense of self as a person. 189 00:29:44,131.0411667 --> 00:29:51,491.0411667 I am hardworking and I can continue to emulate that value in other capacities of my life. 190 00:29:51,491.0411667 --> 00:30:01,51.0411667 And how can I do that? I think the other part is adopting a growth mindset and mental flexibility to where you can say, I'm. 191 00:30:01,506.0421667 --> 00:30:06,416.0421667 Just because I don't know something or just because I only knew one thing that isn't the end all be all. 192 00:30:06,446.0421667 --> 00:30:35,466.0421667 So I'm willing to Look outside of what I already know and I can grow I can use everything as a learning opportunity I can look at it look at anything as an opportunity period and have using the word like mental flexibility of if you're If you have holy horse blinders on and you've only been looking at life one way Through horse blinders, there's no way that you're going to be able to see anything else. 193 00:30:35,466.0421667 --> 00:30:51,646.0421667 So if you've been doing the same thing for 20, 30 years, even for 10 years, and being able to take those horse blinders off and say, what else can I now do given the fact that I don't have this part of me, or I don't have this role, or I don't have this responsibility anymore. 194 00:30:51,676.0421667 --> 00:30:58,476.0421667 So in identifying your value, I think that kind of as our North star, it helps us continue to evolve. 195 00:30:58,476.0421667 --> 00:30:59,46.0421667 That's one thing. 196 00:30:59,546.0421667 --> 00:31:00,716.0421667 Two, I think something we take for. 197 00:31:01,1.0421667 --> 00:31:09,471.0421667 Granted, or at least don't give enough weight to, or we minimize is social connections and the importance that carries. 198 00:31:09,481.0421667 --> 00:31:23,341.0431667 So if we can find a sense of community and a sense of interconnectedness and how important interpersonal connections are, not only for our mental health and being, but in continuing to live a very fulfilling life. 199 00:31:23,361.0431667 --> 00:31:38,301.0431667 There is research upon research that continues to explore the importance of for stress, for anxiety, for depression, for just about anything, how important it is to even have small talk with somebody and feel connected. 200 00:31:38,651.0431667 --> 00:31:39,201.0431667 With someone. 201 00:31:39,201.0431667 --> 00:31:46,661.0431667 So if you have been doing the same, let's say nine to five for 10 plus years, and I was like I don't know what structure to build. 202 00:31:46,701.0431667 --> 00:31:48,401.0431667 And I don't know what to do. 203 00:31:48,421.0431667 --> 00:31:58,451.0441667 Even something as simple as going back and recognizing you have, you can not only tap into and recognize and redefine. 204 00:31:59,11.0441667 --> 00:32:14,881.0441667 Interpersonal connections and relationships, you can create new ones and something as simple as like your local like coffee store, like walking into a Starbucks and having like small talk with somebody to create a sense of belonging and create a sense of connection. 205 00:32:14,981.0441667 --> 00:32:16,601.0431667 Because it's. 206 00:32:17,751.0441667 --> 00:32:27,861.0441667 It's critical to our place within this world and within life to feel like we are connected to other human beings, which, solitary confinement is punishment for a reason. 207 00:32:27,871.0441667 --> 00:32:29,31.0441667 No one is an island. 208 00:32:29,41.0441667 --> 00:32:30,201.0441667 We need other people. 209 00:32:30,211.0441667 --> 00:32:37,861.0441667 So between values and feeling the connection to others and exploring the opportunity to make, create new communities. 210 00:32:38,161.0441667 --> 00:32:48,501.0441667 Create new relationships, I think, is an important part of figuring out how to ground yourself in what still exists when it feels like everything else is gone or everything else is ripped away. 211 00:32:48,831.0441667 --> 00:32:54,71.0441667 I think we can give more weight and more value to relationships and a sense of community. 212 00:32:54,956.0441667 --> 00:33:15,155.9441667 Definitely, I think, when you're in a situation, just like we mentioned, those social connections can make a difference, whether it's for emotional support, or they can maybe provide professional guidance or connections, whatever it is, it can be crucial to maintain your own community. 213 00:33:15,416.0441667 --> 00:33:16,446.0441667 Mental balance. 214 00:33:16,806.0441667 --> 00:33:21,586.0441667 We've been talking a lot about how to keep yourself balanced. 215 00:33:21,856.0441667 --> 00:33:24,316.0441667 That word again in these situations. 216 00:33:24,846.0441667 --> 00:33:29,396.0441667 But I do think that there is a role that employers should be taking. 217 00:33:29,396.0441667 --> 00:33:32,326.0441667 And I think there's a lot of buzz from employers. 218 00:33:32,326.0441667 --> 00:33:53,866.0451667 I do have sometimes people reaching out to me asking me about how All right, thanks What suggestions that I have from a women's health perspective that can make the workplace better? What do you think about that idea and what ideas, if you've thought about this, that employers can take? Because this is happening in London. 219 00:33:54,136.0451667 --> 00:34:08,76.0451667 The Mayor of London has taken a lot of measures on Making access easier for women, specifically menopausal women, and there are a lot of work policies that are taking place, and I think the U. 220 00:34:08,76.0451667 --> 00:34:08,256.0451667 S. 221 00:34:08,276.0441667 --> 00:34:13,116.0441667 is looking at that and thinking about how they can do the same. 222 00:34:13,306.0441667 --> 00:34:24,976.0451667 This doesn't have to be about menopause, but just about Women in general, because as we're not men and our responsibilities and the way we have to deal with things sometimes are different. 223 00:34:25,556.0451667 --> 00:34:39,576.0451667 And sometimes I think there's a hard line and I've seen this amongst my own employees where I just see them getting really stressed about having to pick up their child and, whatever it is, daycare and. 224 00:34:40,251.0451667 --> 00:34:42,751.0451667 And the sick leave policies that are in place. 225 00:34:42,991.0451667 --> 00:34:51,191.0451667 What do you think employers can do differently? I think you hit the nail on the head there. 226 00:34:51,281.0451667 --> 00:34:54,531.0451667 Where I think it has to be a top down system. 227 00:34:54,531.0451667 --> 00:34:55,371.0451667 And in. 228 00:34:55,616.0451667 --> 00:35:11,86.0441667 In a perfect world in theory, like flexible work policy would be the place to start, especially because when we're circling back to how we started this conversation of women have so many roles and responsibilities and this kind of like. 229 00:35:11,296.0451667 --> 00:35:47,81.1431667 Do it all so you're trying to be the quote unquote like mom who does it all the employee who does it all and you're striving to uphold all these responsibilities quite honestly it's just not possible so I'm wondering you know in incorporating more flexible work policies of whether that means Increased amount of paid time off or external extended maternal leave at paid maternally for that matter, which, we can talk for hours on end about what kind of policies need to be changed to support women in encouraging them to not only. 230 00:35:47,626.1441667 --> 00:36:00,216.1431667 Be able to I was going to say uphold, but honestly, even just enjoy their role of when they, let's say, become a new mother or have to take, or have to make multiple visits in a calendar. 231 00:36:00,976.1431667 --> 00:36:12,736.1431667 In a single calendar year or even a month of needing to go to various medical appointments to tend to whether it's physical health or mental health and saying you have X number of days to tend to that. 232 00:36:12,986.1431667 --> 00:36:14,896.1426667 Please take it and encouraging that. 233 00:36:14,896.1426667 --> 00:36:18,316.1431667 So setting the tone where this is something that we. 234 00:36:18,946.1431667 --> 00:36:24,856.1431667 Not only encouraged, but we have said in a policy to say you can take X number of days, weeks off. 235 00:36:24,876.1431667 --> 00:36:38,966.1421667 You can take this these group of like X amount of time is required for our own morale for you to show up as a better employee to take time to address your mental health needs. 236 00:36:39,266.1421667 --> 00:36:41,186.1421667 I know some clients because I work. 237 00:36:41,651.1431667 --> 00:36:57,371.1421667 Primarily remotely, I have clients who, will grab their phone on their lunch break and, hop into session or will, turn on their laptops at home as they are working remotely, have their therapy session and then come right back out and continue to work. 238 00:36:57,711.1421667 --> 00:37:06,61.1421667 And I often ask, is this something that your employer is encouraging you to do? And some of them will look at me sideways of, no, I'm on my lunch. 239 00:37:06,191.1421667 --> 00:37:29,316.1411667 Like this is something that I'm doing because it's important to me and I want to like, I don't think my boss knows what I'm doing versus some say I have a very open, transparent conversation with my supervisor to say once a week, there's a calendar blocked, like protected time in my calendar that says this is my like mental health time. 240 00:37:29,316.1421667 --> 00:37:31,866.1421667 And this is where I see my therapist and no questions asked. 241 00:37:31,866.1421667 --> 00:37:33,106.0421667 It's go do whatever you need. 242 00:37:33,296.1421667 --> 00:37:38,6.1421667 Do whatever you need to do, tend to that, and then hop right back online and continue to do that. 243 00:37:38,26.1421667 --> 00:37:45,446.1421667 So I think the more we could have not only changes in policy but also modeling the importance of that. 244 00:37:45,666.1421667 --> 00:37:56,216.1421667 So we're looking at places where, let's say in corporations where it's higher up, where you're actually modeling the need for I'm going to take a mental health day. 245 00:37:56,746.1421667 --> 00:38:05,236.1411667 Where that it isn't filled with ridicule, shame, judgment anything that's negative, anything that holds a negative connotation with saying you're going to take a mental holiday. 246 00:38:05,236.1411667 --> 00:38:10,76.1421667 So that modeled top down, I think is also incredibly important. 247 00:38:10,626.1421667 --> 00:38:15,576.1431667 I, those two are the big ones that come to mind, but I think in recognizing that. 248 00:38:16,896.1431667 --> 00:38:38,131.1441667 The way that our most employees, most employer systems are set up where there's such a strict amount of time that you can take for, let's say, when your kiddo is sick or when a, your kiddo You now have the role of an adult child and needing to be a caregiver for your aging parents. 249 00:38:38,461.1441667 --> 00:38:54,131.1446667 And that being something that I still think needs so much time to discuss and so much care to be given around that topic where that becomes something that is normalized going to normalize that this is something that happens versus that we have the set standard rate clock in and clock out. 250 00:38:54,131.1446667 --> 00:38:55,571.1446667 And these are your expectations. 251 00:38:55,571.1446667 --> 00:38:58,491.1446667 And if you fall short of them, then you should have done better. 252 00:38:58,866.1446667 --> 00:39:00,786.1446667 Versus we could have helped you do better. 253 00:39:01,156.1446667 --> 00:39:03,96.1446667 So it's more of an individualistic. 254 00:39:03,136.1446667 --> 00:39:09,806.1436667 You go figure it out versus we're creating a landscape environment. 255 00:39:09,856.1446667 --> 00:39:12,56.1446667 A community where this is something that's. 256 00:39:12,321.2456667 --> 00:39:13,571.1456667 It's normalized. 257 00:39:13,981.1456667 --> 00:39:15,41.1456667 And it's supported. 258 00:39:15,101.1456667 --> 00:39:22,241.1456667 So I think more conversation and dialogue about normalizing how important it is, but it's not just you come, you produce and you go. 259 00:39:22,731.1446667 --> 00:39:24,111.1456667 You're human. 260 00:39:24,491.1446667 --> 00:39:26,221.1456667 And then you come and you produce and you go. 261 00:39:27,131.1456667 --> 00:39:28,271.1456667 So prioritizing that. 262 00:39:29,351.1456667 --> 00:39:44,271.1446667 I think what you're describing is more humane and I think the wiser employers are realizing this in terms of retaining employees that they have to create better policies. 263 00:39:44,951.1446667 --> 00:39:58,291.1446667 There are certain places though where that toxicity can persist and then their approach to mental health and the, the demands that women often have are not necessarily met. 264 00:39:59,666.1456667 --> 00:40:14,646.1456667 There's this word that we use in medicine burnout, and just like you don't necessarily use that word balance, I'm always skeptical of using the word burnout because it reminds me of the 80s. 265 00:40:15,596.1446667 --> 00:40:17,336.1456667 And that's where that word came from. 266 00:40:17,886.1456667 --> 00:40:23,26.1456667 People who were burnouts say they burnt out on drugs. 267 00:40:23,626.1456667 --> 00:40:29,26.1456667 And I'm like, you're equating our mental health with drug burnout. 268 00:40:29,356.1456667 --> 00:40:36,36.1456667 And I often have thought that is, is a very severe word for a lack of a better word. 269 00:40:36,516.1456667 --> 00:40:51,956.1456667 For me, I've always thought of it as work exhaustion and exhaustion from just doing multiple things, because as you probably are aware, women tend to be multitaskers. 270 00:40:52,386.1456667 --> 00:40:56,846.1456667 We're often doing many different things at the same time. 271 00:40:57,916.1456667 --> 00:41:02,386.1456667 And as great as that is, maybe not so great. 272 00:41:02,436.1456667 --> 00:41:05,6.1456667 It can often lead to exhaustion. 273 00:41:05,546.1456667 --> 00:41:24,451.1466667 So when people use the word burnout at work, and for patients as well, I'm always like, what can we do so that Exhaustion doesn't hit what should women be aware of okay, we're trying to build a better workplace. 274 00:41:24,731.1466667 --> 00:41:27,1.1466667 We're trying to build better policies. 275 00:41:27,281.1466667 --> 00:41:31,921.1466667 We're trying to be more aware, trying to, take better care of ourselves. 276 00:41:31,921.1466667 --> 00:41:33,261.1456667 But as life happens. 277 00:41:34,81.1466667 --> 00:41:39,421.1466667 And sometimes people just go on in their situation, not realizing things. 278 00:41:39,971.1466667 --> 00:41:40,971.1466667 that they're burnt out. 279 00:41:41,521.1466667 --> 00:42:00,551.1476667 So what should women be aware of? What kind of signs or symptoms often appear? If you don't mind, I'd love to reference a book that I not only love, but I recommend to my clients mainly when, because the book that is written is geared towards the audience of women. 280 00:42:00,601.1476667 --> 00:42:08,581.1476667 The book in and of itself is called Burnout and it speaks more to the emotional burnout than the professional burnout. 281 00:42:08,841.1476667 --> 00:42:14,121.1466667 And when we're looking at the DSM, it's speaking to, the ICD code, it's for professional burnout. 282 00:42:14,151.1466667 --> 00:42:19,851.1471667 It isn't until fast forward, maybe the last five years that we're talking about the fact that there's emotional burnout, it's not just professional. 283 00:42:20,221.1471667 --> 00:42:24,671.1471667 And like you mentioned back in the day, what that used to look like, I'm being cautious of using that in the medical field. 284 00:42:25,221.1471667 --> 00:42:33,181.1461667 But burnout Emily and Amelia Nagowski they're twin sisters, they wrote the book and it, they, they drove home a couple of messages. 285 00:42:33,191.1471667 --> 00:42:37,981.1471667 One, they define burnout, which is the number one criteria, which is the emotional exhaustion. 286 00:42:38,221.1471667 --> 00:42:42,781.1461667 And then there's depersonalization and then a decreased sense of accomplishment. 287 00:42:43,101.1461667 --> 00:42:46,791.1461667 So when we're looking at that number one, and I, this happened. 288 00:42:47,661.1461667 --> 00:43:01,371.1471667 Especially in 2020 when we're looking at the emotional exhaustion signs to look out is, backtracking here, one of the main, major signs to look out is physiological responses that you're experiencing. 289 00:43:01,381.1471667 --> 00:43:07,941.1471667 So when we think of how stress leads to burnout. 290 00:43:08,71.1471667 --> 00:43:14,671.1466667 And they define this incredibly clearly and incredibly brilliantly in their book where they say, the stress is always going to be there. 291 00:43:14,671.1466667 --> 00:43:17,651.1471667 It's the stress response that we need to work through. 292 00:43:17,651.1471667 --> 00:43:20,591.1471667 And they describe it as going through stress is like a tunnel. 293 00:43:20,601.1471667 --> 00:43:21,541.1471667 Like you have to go through it. 294 00:43:21,571.1471667 --> 00:43:24,811.1471667 You have to experience the entire stress cycle. 295 00:43:25,151.1471667 --> 00:43:29,401.1471667 To actually come out the other end where you're coping with it. 296 00:43:29,721.1471667 --> 00:43:37,941.1471667 And when we think of stress, we identified as like work stress and personal stress and anything of that nature, but it's the physiological response that we're having. 297 00:43:37,951.1461667 --> 00:43:44,115.4471667 So much of that means aches and pains and GI issues and we're all experiencing. 298 00:43:44,115.4471667 --> 00:43:49,926.9471667 Chronic headaches, migraines, how our body is essentially carrying that and responding to that. 299 00:43:50,346.9471667 --> 00:43:56,896.9471667 So when that starts, then that goes from you have a headache every once in a while to you and you would know this better than me. 300 00:43:57,116.9471667 --> 00:43:59,716.9461667 You have a chronic migraine. 301 00:43:59,716.9461667 --> 00:44:02,206.9471667 You have a headache that's coming on and lasting. 302 00:44:02,247.0471667 --> 00:44:03,867.0471667 Three to four times a week. 303 00:44:03,897.0471667 --> 00:44:08,137.0471667 That's just plainly one example, but it's the physiological response. 304 00:44:08,137.0471667 --> 00:44:10,47.0461667 It's this setting up our. 305 00:44:11,142.0471667 --> 00:44:12,162.0471667 Sympathetic nervous system. 306 00:44:12,162.0471667 --> 00:44:14,302.0471667 We're telling us you are in fight or flight. 307 00:44:14,332.0471667 --> 00:44:16,302.0471667 There is a stress response here. 308 00:44:17,212.0471667 --> 00:44:29,512.0466667 You are under some sort of threat and our body's response to that and continuing to live essentially without recognizing that you're in this chronic fight flight stage. 309 00:44:29,512.0466667 --> 00:44:33,182.0471667 Your sympathetic nervous system is only operating in that only way. 310 00:44:33,182.0471667 --> 00:44:37,761.8471667 It means that you are now you've become so accustomed where you don't even recognize that's. 311 00:44:38,111.9471667 --> 00:44:40,221.9471667 The only way that you're operating again. 312 00:44:40,661.9471667 --> 00:44:47,501.9461667 So in order to actually complete that stress cycle, as they alluded to in their book and outline we need to. 313 00:44:47,886.9471667 --> 00:44:56,986.9471667 Actually take very conscious daily steps, and it doesn't have to be fancy, and it doesn't have to be overly complicated. 314 00:44:57,466.9471667 --> 00:45:05,266.9466667 But the second we recognize that once that stress is gone with us, identified stressor is gone. 315 00:45:05,286.9456667 --> 00:45:12,616.9466667 So let's say it's financial, and now that financial stressor is gone, but your body is still in the response that it's under threat. 316 00:45:13,136.9466667 --> 00:45:14,966.9466667 We need to remind it that it's safe. 317 00:45:15,101.9466667 --> 00:45:17,861.9466667 And one of one of the ways of doing that is by movement. 318 00:45:18,481.9466667 --> 00:45:34,961.9466667 Think you and I talked about one of the ways of self care would be like, you are taking a walk around the block, you're moving your body, you were telling your body that it is, you're working that stress, that physiological response, that tension, that aches, the pains, the headache. 319 00:45:35,886.9466667 --> 00:45:46,846.9466667 Anything, issues with vision, chronic pain, GI issues, whatever it can be, movement is one of the best ways, one of the top, top, best ways to incorporate. 320 00:45:46,866.9466667 --> 00:45:49,356.9466667 And it could be literally that five minute walk. 321 00:45:49,716.9456667 --> 00:45:52,56.9466667 It can be stretching. 322 00:45:52,176.9456667 --> 00:45:54,966.9466667 It could be anything that's signaling to your body, you're okay. 323 00:45:55,606.9466667 --> 00:45:56,636.9466667 I'm okay, I'm safe. 324 00:45:57,16.9466667 --> 00:46:10,306.9456667 I don't have to be in this state where I'm constantly under threat or my body thinks there's this perceived threat and my body has now figured out that this is normal and this is the only state that I could be in. 325 00:46:11,6.9456667 --> 00:46:11,576.9466667 That's one. 326 00:46:11,646.9466667 --> 00:46:15,706.9456667 Two, we talked about the importance of sense of community before. 327 00:46:16,676.9466667 --> 00:46:26,846.9466667 Connecting with others and having a sense of community, speaking to somebody, even that walk around the block where you can say hi to a neighbor or you can say hi to a complete stranger. 328 00:46:26,866.9456667 --> 00:46:27,726.9466667 I know some people don't. 329 00:46:28,576.9466667 --> 00:46:31,46.9466667 Don't do well with that, they shy away from that's completely understandable. 330 00:46:31,486.9466667 --> 00:46:46,906.9466667 But having that sense of interconnectedness, so speaking to somebody, striking up a conversation, smiling, something as simple as smiling, and having that even re reciprocated, is again, something that makes us feel like we are slowing down. 331 00:46:47,91.9466667 --> 00:46:48,171.9466667 And that we are okay. 332 00:46:48,531.9466667 --> 00:46:51,241.9466667 Somebody sees us and somebody acknowledges us. 333 00:46:51,561.9466667 --> 00:47:13,96.8476667 That is another way where we are addressing that we are in this decreasing how to respond to decreasing is actually before even we get to burn out where these decreasing that stress response and my other personal favorite, which I feel can be done just about anywhere at any time and is highly undervalued and should be appreciated. 334 00:47:13,336.9476667 --> 00:47:30,316.9476667 At the top of, in my opinion, everyone's list is actually paying attention to your breathing and all that means is really how are you breathing often when we're especially when we're experiencing that stress response, that fight or flight, we're taking a lot of shallow breaths and it feels like we're trying to gasp for air because. 335 00:47:31,31.9476667 --> 00:47:32,151.9476667 You would do that same thing. 336 00:47:32,151.9476667 --> 00:47:39,941.9476667 If let's say you're being chased by a tiger, you would be gasping for air and we don't realize how much we're not breathing throughout the day. 337 00:47:39,971.9476667 --> 00:47:42,881.9476667 We're taking these shallow breaths and we're forgetting to take an actual deep breath. 338 00:47:42,891.9476667 --> 00:47:51,221.9476667 So my go to is box breathing and it's four seconds inhaling, four seconds exhaling, and you inhale for four and you exhale for four and you do that. 339 00:47:51,551.9476667 --> 00:47:53,501.9476667 It's like drawing a box, four, four, four, four. 340 00:47:53,871.9476667 --> 00:47:57,321.9466667 And you're essentially slowing down your nervous system. 341 00:47:57,321.9476667 --> 00:47:58,691.9476667 You're telling it again, okay. 342 00:47:58,956.9476667 --> 00:48:03,36.9476667 The goal that we're constantly trying to strive for is that you're safe. 343 00:48:03,326.9476667 --> 00:48:04,176.9476667 Your body is safe. 344 00:48:04,196.9476667 --> 00:48:04,926.9476667 You are safe. 345 00:48:04,976.9476667 --> 00:48:06,16.9476667 You are okay. 346 00:48:07,406.9476667 --> 00:48:18,816.9476667 Because our brain can't tell the difference between is there an actual tiger chasing me or do I have a deadline that I haven't met? Evolutionarily, we have developed in a way where our brain cannot tell the difference. 347 00:48:18,836.9476667 --> 00:48:21,906.9476667 So it is a perceived threat, but our body's reacting in a way of run. 348 00:48:22,296.9476667 --> 00:48:23,136.9476667 And run fast. 349 00:48:23,556.9476667 --> 00:48:29,896.9476667 So instead, we need to incorporate these tools, these coping strategies to say we are actually safe. 350 00:48:29,936.9476667 --> 00:48:30,856.9476667 You're okay. 351 00:48:31,86.9476667 --> 00:48:32,636.9476667 Let's slow down to heart rate. 352 00:48:33,36.9476667 --> 00:48:34,796.9476667 Let's go into parasympathetic nervous. 353 00:48:35,446.9476667 --> 00:48:38,656.9476667 Let's turn that on instead. 354 00:48:40,356.9476667 --> 00:49:02,6.9466667 And I think just again, small daily habits, incorporating movement, incorporating some sense of community and social interactions and really truly practicing like deep breathing can help with just very small daily things to decrease our inevitable burnout and assist us through coping with daily stressors. 355 00:49:03,661.9466667 --> 00:49:05,661.9466667 I, I totally agree with you. 356 00:49:05,711.9466667 --> 00:49:09,761.9466667 I try to do as much of that as possible. 357 00:49:09,771.9466667 --> 00:49:18,971.9456667 Although there are days when I don't and I pay for it, but to remind yourself, to take a breath in that moment. 358 00:49:19,81.9456667 --> 00:49:26,531.9466667 It's the, it's one of the hardest things that you can do because you are often zoned in on whatever else is happening. 359 00:49:26,991.9466667 --> 00:49:28,241.9456667 And it's so easy. 360 00:49:28,891.9456667 --> 00:49:30,181.9466667 It's so easy to forget. 361 00:49:30,921.9466667 --> 00:49:33,451.9466667 But these are great tools that you have mentioned. 362 00:49:33,711.9466667 --> 00:49:58,511.9471667 We've talked about a lot Obviously this topic can go on and on I don't think a five hour podcast is something that anyone would like to listen to But is there something that we haven't touched on that you absolutely wanted to include in our podcast? I think we covered the biggest most critical pieces. 363 00:49:58,541.9471667 --> 00:50:04,31.9471667 And I, thank you for driving that for driving these important topics and messages home just to wrap up. 364 00:50:04,31.9481667 --> 00:50:06,821.9471667 I think sometimes the most. 365 00:50:07,541.9481667 --> 00:50:16,301.9481667 Important and a part of what could help our mental health and overall well being that isn't recognized just being aware. 366 00:50:16,781.9481667 --> 00:50:23,51.9486667 So some of these things and when you're just operating in the go to pause and incorporate being mindful. 367 00:50:23,51.9486667 --> 00:50:36,871.9491667 And I know we use these this word a lot and comes up a lot and everyone can use it in a different way, but really just actually being Present to be able to recognize have I had a migraine for the last five days and I'm just brushing it aside versus paying attention to it. 368 00:50:37,291.9491667 --> 00:50:45,21.9491667 So if we could overall to the best of our ability, be more mindful of what is my body telling me. 369 00:50:45,541.9491667 --> 00:51:05,451.9491667 And then addressing it with compassion, with kindness, with the love and care that it needs is just one kind of surefire way to at least recognize that this that the best possible self care you give is just be mindful of what is my body telling me. 370 00:51:05,561.9491667 --> 00:51:08,791.9491667 Because it tells us all the time, but we do an excellent job at ignoring it. 371 00:51:09,201.9491667 --> 00:51:11,91.9491667 So I'm asking you to not to ignore it. 372 00:51:11,881.9491667 --> 00:51:13,181.9491667 Just pay attention. 373 00:51:13,321.9481667 --> 00:51:13,731.9481667 Pay it. 374 00:51:15,581.9491667 --> 00:51:15,971.9491667 Yes. 375 00:51:15,972.0491667 --> 00:51:20,461.9491667 I, I often do the MRI and the labs and the neuro exam. 376 00:51:21,61.9491667 --> 00:51:25,491.9491667 I'm talking about, women who come in with migraines and often comes back with nothing. 377 00:51:25,971.9481667 --> 00:51:31,681.9481667 And most of it is to assure them that they don't have a tumor, that's growing, getting larger in their brain. 378 00:51:31,681.9501667 --> 00:51:35,311.9491667 And then the conversation shifts, like we've done this workup. 379 00:51:35,901.9491667 --> 00:51:38,601.9491667 Let's talk about what's triggering it. 380 00:51:39,121.9491667 --> 00:51:41,411.9491667 And your body is trying to tell you something. 381 00:51:41,411.9491667 --> 00:51:42,271.9491667 So I absolutely. 382 00:51:42,336.9491667 --> 00:51:43,476.9491667 Absolutely agree with you. 383 00:51:44,186.9491667 --> 00:52:00,392.8269445 If my listeners want to find you where should they go to in terms of your website, your Instagram, Facebook, whatever else that you're on? Yeah, and I love connecting with anyone who wants to connect and talk about therapy or mental health or otherwise. 384 00:52:00,392.8269445 --> 00:52:03,264.3713889 You can find me on Instagram. 385 00:52:03,284.3713889 --> 00:52:05,644.3713889 It's my handle is Amalia talks. 386 00:52:05,884.3713889 --> 00:52:06,404.3713889 therapy. 387 00:52:06,414.3713889 --> 00:52:09,484.3713889 That's Amalia underscore talks underscore therapy. 388 00:52:09,754.3713889 --> 00:52:12,424.3713889 And my website is untangled path therapy dot com. 389 00:52:12,434.3713889 --> 00:52:15,84.3713889 So either one of those ways you can reach me. 390 00:52:15,84.3713889 --> 00:52:18,334.3713889 My website connects to my Instagram so you can find me there. 391 00:52:18,384.3703889 --> 00:52:21,884.3703889 I try to be as active as possible on Instagram, but it's not always the case. 392 00:52:22,194.3703889 --> 00:52:24,864.3703889 But definitely try to incorporate that as well. 393 00:52:24,874.3703889 --> 00:52:27,824.3703889 So I, if anyone wants to reach out, I'm more than happy to chat. 394 00:52:28,764.3703889 --> 00:52:30,924.3703889 Thank you so much for your time thank you. 395 00:52:31,224.3703889 --> 00:52:33,364.3693889 Thank you so much for creating this space and for talking. 396 00:52:33,374.3693889 --> 00:52:37,474.3693889 And don't forget to like, share and review my podcast. 397 00:52:38,24.3693889 --> 00:52:41,814.3693889 Remember, it's always ladies first on Soma Says. 398 00:52:42,114.3693889 --> 00:52:45,774.3693889 Let's make a difference one conversation at a time.