February 10, 2025 • 44 mins
Welcome to Episode 15 of the Actor's Guide to the End of the World!
This past weekend, Rían celebrates his birthday going to see a soccer match as E-Kan anxiously awaits the Super Bowl (Go Birds). They talk about America’s obsession with football and E-Kan explains why the Philadelphia Eagles get a bad reputation and why he thinks football is the ultimate team sport.
Also, E-Kan and Rían dig into the controversial comments made by an Atlanta casting director about how she only watched actors’ self tapes for four seconds. This is a conversation that actors need to hear. Was it overblown? Is this common amongst casting directors? What can actors learn from this? And what is the job of the casting director and what does this say about our industry moving forward? They talk about it their experiences working for a casting office as a reader and how it will change how you approach auditions.
And Emilia Pérez... where do we begin? They give their thoughts on Karla Sofia Gascon's Oscar campaign that came and went. They also break down the AI controversy in the Oscar competition this year with The Brutalist and Emilia Pérez, both Best Picture nominees that have admitted to using AI. Is this going to start a trend? Do actors care if performances are altered? Or are we being naive? They also discuss what is the need to perfect performances through AI and is it worth the backlash. E-Kan shares insights from a VFX supervisor about how they use technology to alter films that blew his mind.
New episodes every Monday! All shows are on YouTube and Substack as well! Let us know what you think. Email us at actorsguidepodcast@gmail.com. Follow us on all social media @actorsguidepodcast
https://deadline.com/2025/01/atlanta-casting-director-self-tapes-viewing-1236273084/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2025/02/05/emilia-prez-director-disavows-karla-sofa-gascns-tweets-and-slams-actress-for-playing-the-victim-all-the-films-controversies-explained/
Latinos on Emilia Pérez- https://www.indiewire.com/features/commentary/emilia-perez-latinos-racist-does-academy-care-1235090484/
AI at the SuperBowl
https://www.adweek.com/media/no-ai-super-bowl/
Hidden Gems - Emmet Kirwan’s "Accents" show on tour
https://www.civictheatre.ie/whats-on/accents/
Time stamps:
(00:00) Intro
(03:45) The Super Bowl and Philly Eagles' fan reputation
(07:09) Rían explains how sports differ in Ireland than the US
(09:44) Casting director 4 seconds controversy
(17:29) Do casting directors watch every self tape?
(19:14) Lessons actors can learn from this
(22:14) Atlanta growing pains
(23:59) What actors can learn from being a casting director
(26:59) Emilia Pérez and Karla Sofia Gascon disaster
(29:44) The Latino problem with Emilia Pérez
(33:15) AI Controversy in the Oscars
(35:19) Do actors care if performances are altered by AI?
(40:04) The things that are altered with technology
(41:59) Hidden Gems
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
There are two casting directors,
(00:01):
one of them laughs and admits
that she spends four seconds
to watch most of these tapes.
Her work speaking for itself,
what do her producers
think that she's proclaiming
that she's watching all
these tapes for four seconds?
Yeah, that's true.
What is their job?
If they're going to be
a great casting director
and they're going to
discover the next Edward Norton,
(00:23):
then good luck doing
the four second role.
Said to the director who's in the room,
she goes, "I'm so sorry,
he's a great actor normally.
I'm going to find out what's going on."
She went and she called that guy's agent
and the agent said
right before the audition,
his mother went into hospital.
So he came in out of his mind.
I have a friend who's the head of a
(00:44):
visual effects company.
He opened up my eyes as far
as what people have always
been doing with digital technology.
Actors have no idea.
We've been perfecting performances
from the greatest actors
in the world digitally.
What?
You know how we always say,
"Hey, they'll fix it in post."
What about they just
say, "We'll fix it with AI."
(01:06):
Hey guys, this is the Actors Guide
to the End of the World podcast,
where we talk about acting in Hollywood
in a way people understand.
I'm E-Kan Soong and this is--
Rían Sheehy Kelly, how you doing?
Doing well.
How are you holding up over there?
I'm good, man.
Crazy Weather has subsided.
Crazy Weather has subsided.
It's very pleasant.
I am a year older than I
was in our last podcast.
(01:27):
Oh yeah.
Happy birthday.
Thanks man, I had a birthday, 43.
I don't know how I feel about that.
I'm pretty okay with that, I think.
Oh, that's good.
And you got to celebrate with family?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had my niece help me blow
out the candles on my cake,
which is lovely, my
three-year-old niece, which was great.
Celebrate with family.
Celebrate with your family.
And then I'm gonna go
(01:48):
over to Manchester tomorrow
and see a friend and
watch a game of football.
Soccer.
For the Americans.
That is a way to celebrate.
If you're not following us yet,
follow us wherever you find all podcasts.
We're on YouTube, we're on Substack.
Follow us on all social
media, Actors Guide Podcast.
(02:08):
And if you have
comments, please email us,
actorsguidepodcast.gmail.com.
All right, so a lot to
talk about this episode.
We get into the
casting director controversy
that kind of blew up
the past couple weeks.
A casting director admitted to saying
that they only watch
self-tapes for four seconds.
(02:28):
That was a bit of a
doozy in our community.
We're gonna talk about that.
Imagine doing that in an interview.
Some strong opinions about that.
Imagine doing that in a job interview.
Just to put it in
context, someone comes in,
they sit down, "How you doing, my name?"
No, next, that's essentially
what we're talking about here.
I just knew they
weren't right for the job
by the way they sat down.
That's a great point.
(02:48):
We're also going to get into a little bit
about the Emilia Perez controversy.
We're not gonna get into all the tweets,
but more specifically,
Emilia Perez and The Brutalist,
both Oscar-nominated films, used AI.
There's some
controversy, both sides of it,
and we're gonna get into it.
We also talk about, you're
(03:10):
going to see a big soccer game,
the Super Bowls this weekend.
We talk a little bit about a little fun
football and sports.
The sports sponsor.
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It is interesting timing.
You're gonna watch a great soccer,
football, soccer game,
and then also the Super
Bowls this weekend, so.
That's right, go birds.
Is that right?
Is that what we said?
Go birds.
That's exactly what we say.
(03:52):
Yeah, you learn well.
Tell me about Eagles fans,
because they have a bad reputation.
If you go down in history,
there are a handful of incidents
that kind of solidified Eagles fandom.
Like years ago, there was a Santa Claus
at one of the games,
and everyone was literally
(04:12):
throwing snowballs at him.
Now that's just,
that's actually pretty tame.
That's not the worst
thing I've ever heard.
It's Christmas, Santa, Snowballs.
Eagles fans are known
for being passionate.
Philadelphia is a no bullshit town.
It's show up to work,
blue collar, very grounded.
(04:34):
The Eagles is such a
huge part of Philadelphia.
I'm in South Jersey, I
grew up in South Jersey.
I was born outside of Philly.
I was gonna ask.
So this is kind of, yeah.
So Jersey, like if you're from Jersey,
there's a chance you'd
be an Eagles fan, is that?
Oh, 100%.
Okay.
We have a lot of Eagles.
I think for the most part, for a while,
the Eagles actually
practice in South Jersey.
(04:54):
A lot of them live in South Jersey.
We're right across the border.
Philadelphia is literally a drive
over the bridge for 20 minutes.
So South Jersey is all Eagles fans.
Obviously we've been doing
really well as a sports team
for the past 10, 15 years, which is nice,
but we were one of those tortured fans
trying to win a championship,
(05:16):
and it's been taking
forever to finally do it,
and we finally did in 2018.
I was actually there.
I actually went to the
Super Bowl that year.
That's right, I remember.
And so it's one of the
top things in my life
that I've ever experienced.
Anyway, so--
Did you go to the Eagles
fans in the Super Bowl?
Yeah, I did.
I went to two years ago in Kansas City.
That's right, I remember that.
(05:36):
Oh, I'm sorry, two years ago in Phoenix.
We're trying to repair the reputation,
but for the most part,
it's all kind of in the past.
There's a tradition in Philadelphia
where fans climb up the
street poles, the street lamps.
It's a tradition.
(05:57):
Is that a bird thing?
I don't understand the reference.
They just like--
Actually, I didn't even think about that.
That's brilliant.
I don't think that that's a connection,
but that makes a lot of sense.
There was a few years back,
City put out an announcement.
They are greasing the street poles.
Meaning, do not try to climb them.
We're greasing them, okay?
This gives you an idea where we're at.
(06:17):
This is where we're at.
Surprised at the hysteria surrounding
some American football games.
I went to tailgate at a
Northwestern Ohio State game
in Columbus, Ohio, back in 2008.
I was amazed at how the
entire city of Columbus
showed up for the game.
Everybody was out in the street.
(06:38):
Everybody was all about football.
It's like a religion there.
We don't have anything
to compare that to here.
So you guys don't,
and when I say you guys,
I'm assuming you're talking
about in Dublin or Ireland,
you guys don't go nuts over soccer?
It's just not quite the same.
There is very passionate
fans, and there's rivalries,
and all that kind of stuff,
(06:59):
but it's not quite the same as that.
The numbers aren't quite as big.
People do get very passionate
about international soccer and rugby,
and then we also have
Gaelic football and hurling.
Just split up a little bit, segmented.
It's split between different sports,
and it's also not the
whole city showing up
and everything being about that one team.
(07:19):
It hasn't always been like this.
There was other
sports that were competing,
but it is so dominant
right now for various reasons.
I'm not gonna go into that,
but I just want you
to, across the nation,
there's a reason why
football is the best TV product,
and this is what everyone watches.
These people wanna leave
it all out on the field.
(07:41):
There's very little taking days off.
I'm still biased.
I think it's the ultimate
team sport in America right now.
The other thing I will say is,
to go along with these rivalries,
especially here in America,
and unfortunately for various reasons,
we're very polarized in America
when it comes to
different cities and states,
and there's sometimes
politics involved in these rivalries.
(08:03):
So one of our division
rivals was the Dallas Cowboys.
Dallas Cowboys, Philadelphia Eagles,
Philadelphia, Dallas.
You can't get two cities
that are more different,
and that is kind of
like one of those things,
the beauty of America,
where you travel across the country,
you realize, hey, all these
communities are so different.
That makes us hate each
(08:25):
other even more, right?
And I'm just being honest,
and a lot of that has to do
with so much beyond the sport,
beyond the game of football,
which is actually kind of awesome.
That being said, you'd hope that no one
gets hurt or killed.
For here, I played a
little bit of rugby in school,
and rugby is an incredible team sport.
I played soccer my whole life.
(08:45):
That was my main sport, and still is.
But rugby, I'm glad I got to experience
what it's like to play rugby,
because everything is for the team.
They talk about all this stuff,
and I played when I was 16,
and they were talking about,
"You put your body on
the line for this team."
You know what I mean?
That's drilled into you
from a very young age.
Also, to be fair, rugby
is actually very similar
to American football.
(09:05):
If you're just tuning in, guys,
welcome to the Actors Guide to Sports
that we like and don't.
(laughing) So, this kind of lit up
a fire in a lot of actors
in the past, let's see,
this happened January 30th.
So, this is actually pretty recent.
A lot of different
opinions are going off about this.
There was a podcast between a couple
(09:26):
of Atlanta-based directors.
Casting director.
Casting directors.
The podcast was
talking about how much time
they spend watching self-tapes.
One of them laughs and admits
that she spends four seconds
to watch most of these tapes.
And I will quote, and
(09:47):
I'll give these names
just for context.
This is Raven Drummer and Tiffany Rocher.
To be clear, they're both
co-hosting this podcast.
Raven Drummer was the
one asking the question.
Tiffany Rocher was the one admitting
to give very little
time to audition tapes.
Let's just start back
(10:08):
for people who don't know.
A self-tape is where you tape an audition
and you send it in.
Since the pandemic, particularly,
most of our auditions are self-tapes.
So, you will get a scene or two scenes
and you will tape them
at home with a reader
and you will send them to your agent
and they'll send them
onto the casting director.
(10:28):
In some ways, it's been great for us
because you can do it
from anywhere, really.
You don't have to go into a
casting director's office.
On the other hand of that,
they see a lot more people for roles now
because they get a load of tapes.
So, that's just to
give you the background
of what a self-tape is
and how they look at them.
(10:50):
Now, for a casting
director to spend four seconds
on a tape, I think is crazy.
Because, one, not just
because it takes a lot of effort
to put these tapes together.
We are now responsible as
actors for our lighting,
our sound quality, for getting a reader,
for all of the technical aspects of that,
(11:13):
as well as all the performance aspects,
packaging it up and sending it off.
In the old days, before
self-tapes were the norm,
you would go into a
casting director's office
and you would do an in-person audition.
So, they would provide a reader,
you would go in, you
would do the audition.
That's just to give
people who weren't familiar
with the process, that's the background.
(11:34):
I think four seconds on an audition tape
is pretty insulting, I don't know.
What do you think?
No, no, yeah, yeah, I think
this is a good place to start
and I, let me just clarify this.
According to this article,
Raven Drummer laughs out loud
as she listens to fellow casting director
admit to giving very
little time to audition tapes.
Rocher says, "I'm dead serious.
(11:55):
"Does it take eight seconds to figure out
"if it's a man or a woman?
"Does it take 10 seconds to figure out
"if it's an Amazon driver or surgeon?"
No, when someone shows up as they are,
they show up as they are.
That's the human process.
So, when I come across this tape
and they are what
they are from second one,
from beginning, yeah,
they're in character.
They're telling the story.
That's what I'm hiring them to do.
I'm not waiting to figure
(12:16):
out if they can convince me
if they can do the job.
So, I just wanna be clear,
that wasn't Raven Drummer
saying that, that was Tiffany Rocher.
I think there's a lot of
lessons in this for actors
that we'll get into.
Because, in an attempt to be fair,
I don't know Raven Drummer personally,
but I know that I've
auditioned for her in the past
(12:38):
and still do.
Raven Drummer, from what I understand,
is a gift to a lot of actors and a
champion for actors.
She's been doing it
for a really long time.
And she was not the one
who was saying four seconds.
And I'm gonna go into
what she responded with
and what her methodology was,
which was actually also educational.
(13:00):
Tiffany Rocher, and
this is not any shade,
Tiffany Rocher, on her credit,
she has one major TV show
for Tyler Perry, I believe.
She doesn't have as
much work as Raven Drummer.
And that was the one
saying the four seconds.
So, I just wanna clarify here,
we're not here to demonize anyone.
We're trying to make sense of it
and we're trying to make
sense of it for any actors, okay?
(13:22):
No one is going to defend this.
A lot of people
thought it was insensitive.
They removed this clip of
their podcast on their Instagram,
or at least on this link, it was removed.
The podcast is still up.
So, I actually listened
to their actual podcast.
So, I wanted to listen
to it fully in context,
(13:44):
in conversation.
I have questions about those comments.
I have questions.
She sounds like she's
talking about specifically
two, three-line costars.
Amazon delivery man, doctor.
And it just seems so reductive.
You're telling me that you're gonna watch
(14:06):
an eight-page series regular
of all the different colors and varieties
and four seconds, across
the board, four seconds.
It just so, I'm wondering
if it was a great clicky bit
for a podcast or this
is literally your MO
that you've been doing for seven years.
And I wanna get into what
(14:27):
Raven Drummer's methodology was,
which was more, to be
honest, it was a lot better.
The other question is, is
she a good casting director?
Is she a good casting director?
Does her work speak for itself
where this is her methodology?
If she's the most
brilliant casting director,
we can't really fault it.
This is her methodology.
(14:47):
That means that she's
not going to really see
the actors making different choices.
She's not seeing the
moments at the end of the tape.
And what do her producers
think that she's proclaiming
that she's watching all
these tapes for four seconds?
What do her bosses think of all this?
(15:07):
Yeah, that's true.
What is their job?
If they're going to be
a great casting director
and they're going to
discover the next Edward Norton,
then good luck doing
the four-second role.
I just think four
seconds is so dismissive.
And I saw the clip and
she was quite proud of it.
Oh, you did see the clip.
She was quite proud of it.
Oh, wow, they pulled it
down after that, yeah.
(15:28):
She was kind of laughing at that.
You're right, she did seem--
She was dead.
She wasn't apologetic or anything.
She was just like, nope, I
know, I know in four seconds.
Which to me, smacks of hubris,
I don't know, it just
seems a bit arrogant to me
to say that you could
know within four seconds
(15:48):
where other people take more time.
I understand that I have
known and it's common knowledge
that casting directors do not
watch all of our self-tapes.
And a lot of them admit or swear that
they watch all of them.
A lot of them do.
Oh, well, that's great.
I mean, I hope they do.
But I also know as
actors, and I've done it myself,
sometimes you'll
agonize over a choice you made
(16:10):
towards the end of a tape.
Whereas, it's not always being seen.
But I think for her to
admit that is really silly,
it doesn't do her any favors.
It doesn't serve her in any way.
I agree.
That's a big swing.
And this is the first
episode of their podcast.
You know, as an actor,
and I don't wanna be completely naive,
(16:33):
this is an indication
and a perfect example
of where our industry is right now.
This is an industry
that's becoming overrun
with capitalism, high profits,
overworking everything, you
know, for the smallest role,
you are going to see
50 to 100 some tapes.
(16:56):
The question is, is
it physically possible
to watch for every
role, a three-minute tape?
Yeah.
It might not be physically
possible in this day and age.
And I'm not defending it,
but what I'm saying is, is that was
compared to 15 people
going into a room and they see 15 people
(17:17):
for this one co-star.
So this is where the demands are going.
And I want to say in
defense of casting directors,
because I know a
number of casting directors,
I've been a reader for casting directors.
Casting directors are, in my experience,
champions of actors, they like actors.
So I think she just doesn't do,
(17:38):
she doesn't do the
profession any good by, you know,
she's kind of actively harming the image
of casting directors by saying that,
because I guarantee
you that's not the norm.
I would almost guarantee you
that most casting directors
are watching more than
four seconds of a tape.
Like you said, it can be, you know,
it can be physically impossible
to watch every tape start to finish,
(18:01):
but I think that
there's more consideration
than just the first four seconds.
A more reasonable take is
Raven Drummer was saying,
I have a lot of actors
that I've known over the years
who I know are strong actors,
and it's gonna be more common for me
to watch their entire tapes.
She didn't give a timeframe,
(18:21):
a bullet, a black and
white four second time limit.
She said, I know a lot of great actors,
I will watch their entire tape.
And I will watch, did
they get these moments?
Is this what I'm looking for?
But she, a lot of great actors,
you earned this trust that I know that
you put out good work.
(18:44):
The rest of the competition,
she would measure against that tape.
That sounds reasonable.
That actually sounds like a lot of things
that sometimes we learn in class
over training over at Lesley Con.
Because if you're missing
in the first four seconds
or first 10 seconds,
if you missed three, four or five moments
that other people crushed, guess what?
(19:06):
They're probably not going to give you
too much more time after that.
And I'm just being realistic
from what I feel like the
standards are right now.
Anyway, I thought that was a little more
reasonable and
realistic. It's interesting.
I'd love to hear more
casting directors takes on it
because that's interesting.
Earning the right to sort
of have your tape viewed.
(19:27):
I don't know how I feel
about that, to be honest,
but look, that's the way she works.
I feel you.
Let me put it this way.
Daniel Day-Lewis walks into your office.
I would love to see someone
cut him off after four seconds.
My point is, is, I'm just saying,
isn't it human nature to be like,
(19:47):
okay, Daniel Day-Lewis is
going out for this role.
Let's see what he got.
I think a lot of that past work in
history and reputation
does come along with some actors.
Say you're completely
fresh, completely brand new,
but you're like, wow, okay, there's
something about him.
In that first four seconds moment before,
I'm still watching.
(20:08):
And then it's still good.
And then more moments are not lost.
And then I was like,
you kind of are giving me
a reason to keep watching.
I would want to say
that a great self-tape
is asking that from ourselves, or at
least that's the bar,
whether you're Daniel
Day-Lewis or a no name.
What do we do with this information?
And is this just a really telling example
(20:30):
of what the industry has become
and what our mindset needs to be
when it comes to these tapes?
Leslie would agree with this.
Even more so during self-tapes,
crush your first four seconds.
I mean, that's the one thing
that we can take away from all this.
Crush your first four
seconds, crush your moment before,
you need to crush it
because apparently some people,
(20:51):
maybe not just this one,
is watching for only four seconds.
A huge casting director,
former casting director,
now acting teacher, just put out a video
of her response of it yesterday.
So I think a lot of this stuff needs
to be talked about right
now and we parse through,
hey, let's not overreact, let's not,
what do we learn from this?
You know what I mean?
(21:11):
Yeah, it just kind of clarifies for me
how we just have to
be great at what we do
and to be really specific and really,
as accurate as possible and
come in as that character.
Everything that we learn in class.
Going back to, and I
don't want to dig into this
and dig up old wounds.
There was a big
controversy back and forth
(21:31):
about how Atlanta
casting director was supposedly
getting into a spat
over Twitter of all things,
so on and so forth.
The casting directors
were almost taking pride
in the fact that they can
get decent actors for cheaper,
despite Atlanta having Marvel films
and all the Marvel projects
and huge big budget TV shows.
It's just interesting how
this is Atlanta yet again.
(21:53):
I feel like this is
kind of the growing pains
of a market that is doing very well
and in a way trying to
become Hollywood 2.0.
Hopefully we can grow from this.
Hey, I audition and I work in Atlanta.
I would hope that we can
kind of get to a common ground
of respect for a
(22:14):
community for all departments.
Yeah, and I would
recommend it to any actor
if you get the chance.
Be a reader for a casting director.
Be a reader for auditions
and see how people come into the room.
See how they show up.
You'll see the people who are prepared.
You'll see that some people can be great,
but just one of them
is right for the role
and the other isn't for whatever reason.
I was a reader for a casting
(22:35):
director in Chicago one time
and a guy came in and he
didn't give a great audition.
And the casting
director said to the director,
who's in the room,
she goes, "I'm so sorry.
"He's a great actor normally.
"I'm gonna find out what's going on."
She went and she called that guy's agent
and the agent said
right before the audition,
his mother went into hospital.
So he came in out of his
(22:56):
mind, stressed out and worried.
And he came in and did the audition
and he was all over the
place and you could tell.
And she went back in
and told the director,
she goes, "Somebody had a personal issue.
"His mother went into hospital.
"I think it would be
good to bring him in again
"because I know he can do the job."
You become peers and
you become colleagues.
You're helping them do a job.
(23:17):
You're providing your
services as an actor
for this casting director.
It helps destroy the wall
of, hey, they're against us
or they have status above us.
One of the greatest
things I've ever done,
I was a casting director,
I was a reader for a casting office.
One of the best casting
offices in Hollywood still,
(23:37):
my first handful of jobs
that I booked was through them.
So under the table, they'd be like,
"Hey, read for this, hey, read for this."
A lot of these jobs left the industry
because they were getting in trouble
because they were interns.
It's a shame for a lot of other actors
because a lot of actors are like,
"I wanna watch these auditions.
"I wanna read with all these actors."
(23:57):
Just to put a cherry on
top of all this stuff.
If you create your own
short, write, direct,
produce your own projects,
and if you put out an audition
on LA Casting or Actors Access,
and you see 300 tapes come
in, it's gonna be mind blowing.
The experience that you're
gonna get from auditioning
and you have one role to cast,
and you're going to see one person
(24:18):
just completely nailed it,
and you're gonna see all
these other great actors
that you're not gonna cast.
Yeah, that's a great point actually,
because we did see someone
we know in our class did that,
and it opened up his
eyes to the casting process,
and he was able to talk about it then
from a different point of view.
Yeah, interestingly enough,
casting directors is in the Oscar
competition right now.
(24:39):
Right, so.
Actually, is it?
I don't remember the nominations.
Oh, films released in 2025 and beyond.
2026.
Next year. Okay, 2026.
Well, there you go.
So, the industry is
shifting, and to your point,
casting director is going to get
acknowledged by the Academy
for another thing
that's happening right now.
Okay, where do we
(25:00):
start with Amelia Perez?
Now, this is not going to be a dive
into Carla Gascon getting canceled.
By the way, her Oscar
campaign was born and died
before you and I even got
a chance to watch a movie.
We're not going to get into all that.
That's actually a side issue
(25:21):
for what we were really gonna get into,
but let's just address it really quick,
being up with this, right?
Yeah, yeah, I read, I saw her tweets.
First, trans actor
nominated, best actress,
makes history, and Amelia
Perez has the most nominations
in history for a foreign language film.
And next thing you
know, tweets were discovered
(25:42):
regarding speaking about
past Oscars being woke.
She had comments about Gaza.
Just across the
gamut, they were uncovered.
And in the blink of eye, I
see a headline the next day,
her Oscar campaign is dead.
She recently said she's not
(26:02):
getting out of the competition.
She did make formal apologies.
Zoe Zaldana, who's nominated as well,
and also in the movie,
says she does not approve.
And just recently, the director
has not spoken to her at all,
and disavows Carla Sofia Gascon.
(26:25):
So the director says,
"Hey, I stand up for the film
"during this award
season, but disavows Gascon."
Yeah, it's--
We're just going to put
that out just for context.
This is what happened.
She's still in the competition,
and apparently Netflix is pulling her
from all the Oscars campaign award stuff.
(26:47):
Yeah.
When you say an Oscar's campaign,
do you mean that she is
campaigning for her own Oscar?
What else goes into that?
So that's a really great point.
And I want to say
this, not being cynical,
there is so much money behind
(27:10):
these award shows and campaigns.
How long have we been
talking about screenings
and award screenings and FYC screenings?
We've been talking
about it for three months.
That's how much money
they've been throwing at it.
They go, "We're gonna book this theater
"so everyone can see Amelia Perez.
"We're gonna have
Selena Gomez and Zoe Zaldana
(27:33):
"go over there.
"There's gonna be a reception.
"We're gonna have a whole
staff working these events.
"This has been going on straight for
three and a half months.
"And if you're a huge
movie getting 13 nominations
"for Oscar, that's a lot of
money that's been going out.
"That's for a director as well.
"That's across the world.
"You know, they're doing screenings
"across the world right
now so everyone can see it."
(27:55):
That is how much money.
So here we are, Carla Gascon says,
"I'm not stepping out of the competition
"even though I apologize."
And everyone's like,
"We're probably not gonna vote for you."
Everyone else in the movie, Netflix,
they already put so much money into this
and they got a chance to win Oscars.
So they're going to push all these things
(28:17):
and maybe just leave her out.
When does the voting close?
How late is too late?
You know, if a scandal
breaks after voting is done.
Oh, that's a great point.
That's a great point.
Let's look at this.
Oh, okay, well that's reasonable.
Final voting isn't until
February 11th to February 18th.
Okay, so there you go.
So she's blown it now.
There's no way she wins.
(28:38):
Yeah, exactly.
So if anyone changed their mind,
they are going to vote for it next week.
So there you go.
And how as an actor do you get asked
to be a member of the Academy?
Or...
Oh, we'll dive into all this
disgusting back alley mess too
because this is part of the issue.
(28:59):
You have to get nominated
to become part of the Academy
and all that stuff.
So the question is, is
there enough diversity in that?
That's a whole, another rabbit hole.
Moving beyond this, I will add,
you sent me this great article.
After a lot of this debacle,
people had issues with this film
(29:20):
because it's a film in
which a cartel kingpin emerges
as a women's right
activist about Mexican culture.
None of them are Mexican.
Carlos Sofia Gascón is Spanish.
And it's written,
directed by a French director.
Everyone's so happy that this is getting
so many nominations and
(29:41):
everyone's loving this movie so much.
It's kind of crazy how
much everyone was loving it.
It was sweeping the awards.
Latinos and a lot of
Mexicans were quietly saying,
well, no one that's part of
the movie is actually Mexican.
I do want to add, Selena
Gomez apparently is of Mexican
and Italian descent, is tons of money.
There's this huge spotlight.
(30:03):
This is the most nominations
for a foreign language film in history.
And now it might be
just incredibly different.
And you know, I suppose
it only occurred to me
when you were saying there Oscar,
campaigning for her Oscar,
that means like an Oscar
nomination for an actor
or a film itself
means so much to that film
(30:24):
in terms of revenue, I would imagine,
because it puts it in a category
that people are
automatically gonna watch.
I wonder, I'd love to
know how much that adds
in value to a movie
if it's Oscar nominated
or if one of the actors in it,
I mean, then the movie obviously,
you know, nominated for
one Oscar or whatever.
I didn't even think
of that was, I suppose.
They're like, oh, they
just picked the best films,
(30:45):
you know, people vote.
But it's, so of course
people put money into campaign,
like the screenings.
I hadn't even thought
about the cost of screenings
and how much that costs.
I've heard people close to
behind the scenes in studios
dealing with awards, dealing with events,
and they're talking
about Oscar campaigns.
They are literally trying to win Oscars.
(31:08):
They, it's not so-and-so
A-list actor winning Oscar,
it's we didn't win an Oscar.
It's the campaign didn't win an Oscar.
It's, hey, we did everything right.
Every article, every
headline, every blurb,
how do we not win?
It was eye-opening.
It was eye-opening because, you know,
on the artistic side,
(31:28):
we would like to say,
do a great job, vote for the best movie,
vote for the best performance.
But, you know, on the
studio side, that's what that is.
Yeah.
Anyway, so what I
really wanted to get into,
there was AI used in Emile
Pérez and The Brutalist,
both huge favorites,
heavily nominated films.
(31:48):
There was AI used in both those films.
We're gonna talk about, is it fair?
Is it overblown?
And is this yet another
indication of where we are
in our industry?
Yeah.
Anyway, The Brutalist,
Adrian Brody plays a,
trying to do--
Was it Hungarian or something?
Hungarian. I think it's Hungarian.
Yeah, thank you.
(32:09):
That was part of that, that
was what the AI was used for.
Right, was AI, was
pronunciation of Hungarian words
that he couldn't quite get.
So this is the Hungarian accent.
They used AI to tweak,
perfect, or improve the accent.
And Emile Pérez, Carlos
Sofia Gascon is a singer,
(32:30):
or it's a musical, so
they're singing in the film.
The singing voice was blended with that
of the French pop star Camille,
who co-wrote the music for the movie.
This is the controversy of
what was being picked apart
the past month and a half.
Now, a lot of people in the
(32:51):
crew and in the film world
are saying, guys,
they've been doing this,
things like this, for a long time.
And maybe we just didn't know,
maybe it's become
easier and cheaper using AI.
It's just, AI is such
a buzzword right now.
(33:13):
For those that don't
know, we talked about a lot
during the actors and writers' strike,
AI is a huge thing
going on for the past year,
if not longer.
So this is gonna light up a
lot of actors and creatives.
It's because it's AI
that it's concerning.
If you said they got a Hungarian actor
to dub certain lines,
(33:34):
it wouldn't be the same conversation.
Which is, in some ways
is kind of the same thing.
You're replacing
dialogue with something else.
As far as the, in Amelia Perez,
if they got another singer to just sing
and she just lip
synced, you know what I mean?
Or they dubbed over her singing,
it wouldn't be the same controversy.
(33:56):
I think just the fact that it's AI
and because of what AI has
the potential to be able to do
is why it's more concerning.
Because if you allow
it for certain things,
are you opening the door
to people being replaced?
All of the fears that we've talked about
and that people are
talking about with AI.
That's where it's tricky.
Those two things are
(34:16):
relatively innocuous, I think,
in isolation, but I
don't know if you take them
into the larger context
of where we headed with it.
Two lead actors nominate for best actor.
It's one thing to be like,
hey, number 10 on the call sheet.
I had you saying this word,
but instead you say this word
and we didn't have you
(34:39):
bother you, come to set.
We used AI to generate the scene.
Because obviously we're creatives,
sometimes we might be a little naive,
we might be a little idealistic.
Do you care the fact
that lead actor performance
is being voted on?
Call her Sophia Gascon.
We would like to think, oh my God,
(35:00):
she trained for years to sing that part.
How beautiful does she sound?
Do you actually knock
points off of that performance
because it was enhanced?
Now, if they openly said, yeah,
we blended it with this other pop star,
we just thought that it worked.
There's part of me when
you vote for best actor,
(35:22):
you're kind of want to believe the lie
that they're actually doing the job.
Now, I don't want to
be too harsh about that.
I want to believe Adrian
Brody worked his ass off
perfecting their Hungarian accent.
I heard he did.
I read that he did a lot
of work on that accent.
And there was just certain sounds that,
(35:43):
unless you're a native
Hungarian speaker, you can't make.
And that's the question.
That is a directorial decision.
No one outside of Hungary is going to
tell the difference.
Apparently it might've
been really, really important
to get it perfect and get it authentic.
Rami Malek, when he played,
(36:03):
Oh, Bohemian Rhapsody?
When he played Freddie Mercury.
I believe there was another singer who
sang the songs, right?
I don't have a problem with that.
Oh, I don't either.
My point is, first of
all, as long as you're honest
and you put it out there,
then that's all we can ask.
And it's a directorial
decision, whether you say,
(36:23):
I want to fix this with AI or I don't.
Malek sang some of the parts in the film,
producers inserted vocal
stems from Queen songs,
as well as filling in parts
with Canadian vocalist Mark Martell.
My point is, is you could
easily do that and not use AI.
That's true.
Yeah, that's true.
I think that's the point.
Why use AI?
(36:43):
By the same argument, why not use AI?
I mean, as a producer, like I don't mean.
Oh, I love this.
My mind just blew up
when you just said that.
Okay, let's dig into that.
I was going to get into this later.
We were going into the Super Bowl
and a lot of people were
gearing up in the ad world
saying that, hey, the
Super Bowl is going to be huge
(37:04):
with commercials with AI.
And in ad week, no
robots at the big game,
why AI made ads are
sitting out Super Bowl 59.
Brands are treading lightly
when it comes to AI during the big game.
At least now, in five
years it might be different,
but in at least now, I
think a lot of people
who can read the room
should be asking themselves,
(37:25):
how much worth it is it to use AI?
That means that we're spending less money
to do this technical advancement
and we're spending less money for crew.
So it's basically a PR decision.
I wonder how long that'll last
and if the public
will just get, you know,
will just accept it.
So when we vote for best actors,
because a lot of people
were opposing this question
(37:45):
and it just so happens we have two actors
being nominated for best actor.
Does it make a difference
when you vote for best actor?
Hey, this was tweaked with AI.
Hungarian accent is
kind of a perfect example.
We won't know how good he was.
As actors, you and me would
like to do a lot of skills.
We would like to
learn how to ride a horse,
shoot a gun and expect
them to actually do the thing.
(38:07):
Would you want AI to make
Ryan Gosling and Emma Stone
better singers in La La Land?
Would you want them to be better dancers?
Or do you want them to
actually see what they're doing
and also get nominated for the--
Personally, I would
rather see what they're doing.
I mean, I'm supposing this is a question.
I don't need them to be perfect.
You know what I mean?
I need them to be perfect
singers, perfect dancers.
(38:28):
So my own personal preference, yes.
A lot of people hated the
singing in La La Land, right?
Musical theater geeks.
It did not rub them the right way.
That being said, the
performance was what it was
and they got nominated and they, you
know, Emma Stone won.
The last thing I will
say is just I have a friend
who's the head of a visual effects
(38:49):
company or at a studio.
He's one of the heads of the department.
He's high enough to
still have a job right now,
which is good because they've been
cutting departments.
I would love to have him
on the show at some point.
Obviously, the easiest
thing is stunt people.
You have Mark
Wahlberg running into a fire.
Sure, it would be
(39:09):
nice to digitally do this
where the stunt man runs into the fire
and makes it look like Mark Wahlberg.
That's fine.
Everyone wins, no one gets killed.
He's saying, you have no idea.
We've been perfecting performances
from the greatest actors
in the world digitally.
What?
They mumble through their lines.
They're saying all
that, I'm not telling you.
(39:29):
Their head is over here.
They've been doing that digitally.
We had no idea.
They said we've been
cleaning up wardrobe.
They've won Oscars for wardrobe
that they've been cleaning up digitally.
These are the things that are
happening behind the scenes,
trying to be fair and we're trying
not to be completely naive.
Well, I didn't know that.
(39:50):
Exactly, and we all wanted to believe
that A-list superstar is always amazing.
They're not.
Where's the line drawn
that we didn't need absolute perfection.
We would have loved
this movie regardless.
You know how we always say,
hey, they'll fix it in post.
What about they just
say, we'll fix it with AI.
Jesus, I had no idea.
This is a pretty big revelation.
(40:10):
The idealistic side of me-- I do.
Wants them to do the real thing.
I don't want anything to be fixed up,
but we're being unrealistic.
I don't need perfection.
And in performance,
that's what makes performance
as interesting.
It's not perfection
that makes it interesting.
It's flaws that make it interesting.
It's like, I think that's
what makes humans interesting.
Exactly.
Does it feel real?
(40:31):
Does it feel lived in?
Do we feel the soul of it?
So it's basically, how do
we have enough power to say,
no, we don't want AI in these things
versus money people,
basically, who want AI
because it lowers their costs
and increases their profits.
So that's the fight.
We might get to a point
where money's not everything.
(40:52):
Stay in LA.
Hey, let's rebuild LA.
Let's push productions to stay in LA
because it's important
and because LA needs help.
That's not about the bottom line.
That's the question.
Because there's always going to be a
cheaper way to get it done.
I feel like we didn't solve a lot or come
to many conclusions,
(41:13):
but I feel slightly more scared.
Yeah, yeah.
I think that was the
purpose of this conversation.
I'm glad that came through.
I feel slightly more
unsettled than I did when
I came into this conversation.
Oh, man.
Yeah, I needed to get
that out of my system.
Do you happen to have a hidden gem?
I do, I think.
My hidden gem for this week, I want to
say really cool show.
It's called Accents, written and
(41:35):
performed by Emmett Kirwan.
I saw it at the Civic Theatre in Tallah,
but it is on tour around Ireland.
I think the next stop
is The Mermaid in Bray,
which is a really cool theater.
But he's got two musicians on stage,
and he does storytelling, spoken words,
which he's sort of famous for.
He's well known for in Ireland, if you
(41:56):
know who Emmett Kirwan is.
But it's brilliant.
And he touches on a lot of topics, sort
of the birth of his child,
but he weaves in a lot of things.
He's been very outspoken on a lot of
social issues in Ireland.
And there was a musician called Owen
French, who sadly passed away
last year of cancer.
It went by the name Talos,
but he was a brilliant musician.
(42:16):
And he wrote the music for this show.
This is a great show.
So if you have a chance to go see it,
Accents, it's called.
I want to give a shout out to this one.
No, we've got to talk about Dog Man.
Talk about Dog Man.
He texted me as far
as this Dog Man thing.
See, the fact that you didn't know, this
is an animated film,
(42:38):
literally in theaters
in America right now.
Dog Man, part dog, part man, all hero.
Human police officer and
his faithful police dog
are injured together on the job.
But a life-saving surgery
fuses the two of them together.
The police officer's man is screwed up.
The dog is also injured,
(42:59):
but his body's screwed up.
So what do they do?
They put the dog's
head on the man's body.
Crazy.
I'm not even joking around.
And this is an animated kids movie.
And apparently, it's heartwarming.
It's heartfelt.
I basically heard someone describing it.
I was like, this is so ridiculous.
(43:20):
But apparently, it's a decent movie.
That's your hidden gem.
Go watch that with your family.
Well, also, to be
fair, Dog Man is literally
in theaters across the country.
So I don't even know if
that's really that hidden.
Just give it a little light.
Give it a little light to
these smaller, weird dog voices.
Give it a boost.
All right, guys.
Hope you enjoyed it.
(43:41):
Have a great one.
We'll see you next week.
Absolutely.
See you then.
There are two casting directors,
(00:01):
one of them laughs and admits
that she spends four seconds
to watch most of these tapes.
Her work speaking for itself,
what do her producers
think that she's proclaiming
that she's watching all
these tapes for four seconds?
Yeah, that's true.
What is their job?
If they're going to be
a great casting director
and they're going to
discover the next Edward Norton,
(00:23):
then good luck doing
the four second role.
Said to the director who's in the room,
she goes, "I'm so sorry,
he's a great actor normally.
I'm going to find out what's going on."
She went and she called that guy's agent
and the agent said
right before the audition,
his mother went into hospital.
So he came in out of his mind.
I have a friend who's the head of a
(00:44):
visual effects company.
He opened up my eyes as far
as what people have always
been doing with digital technology.
Actors have no idea.
We've been perfecting performances
from the greatest actors
in the world digitally.
What?
You know how we always say,
"Hey, they'll fix it in post."
What about they just
say, "We'll fix it with AI."
(01:06):
Hey guys, this is the Actors Guide
to the End of the World podcast,
where we talk about acting in Hollywood
in a way people understand.
I'm E-Kan Soong and this is--
Rían Sheehy Kelly, how you doing?
Doing well.
How are you holding up over there?
I'm good, man.
Crazy Weather has subsided.
Crazy Weather has subsided.
It's very pleasant.
I am a year older than I
was in our last podcast.
(01:27):
Oh yeah.
Happy birthday.
Thanks man, I had a birthday, 43.
I don't know how I feel about that.
I'm pretty okay with that, I think.
Oh, that's good.
And you got to celebrate with family?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had my niece help me blow
out the candles on my cake,
which is lovely, my
three-year-old niece, which was great.
Celebrate with family.
Celebrate with your family.
And then I'm gonna go
(01:48):
over to Manchester tomorrow
and see a friend and
watch a game of football.
Soccer.
For the Americans.
That is a way to celebrate.
If you're not following us yet,
follow us wherever you find all podcasts.
We're on YouTube, we're on Substack.
Follow us on all social
media, Actors Guide Podcast.
(02:08):
And if you have
comments, please email us,
actorsguidepodcast.gmail.com.
All right, so a lot to
talk about this episode.
We get into the
casting director controversy
that kind of blew up
the past couple weeks.
A casting director admitted to saying
that they only watch
self-tapes for four seconds.
(02:28):
That was a bit of a
doozy in our community.
We're gonna talk about that.
Imagine doing that in an interview.
Some strong opinions about that.
Imagine doing that in a job interview.
Just to put it in
context, someone comes in,
they sit down, "How you doing, my name?"
No, next, that's essentially
what we're talking about here.
I just knew they
weren't right for the job
by the way they sat down.
That's a great point.
(02:48):
We're also going to get into a little bit
about the Emilia Perez controversy.
We're not gonna get into all the tweets,
but more specifically,
Emilia Perez and The Brutalist,
both Oscar-nominated films, used AI.
There's some
controversy, both sides of it,
and we're gonna get into it.
We also talk about, you're
(03:10):
going to see a big soccer game,
the Super Bowls this weekend.
We talk a little bit about a little fun
football and sports.
The sports sponsor.
So this is a good one.
Now, a quick word from our sponsor.
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(03:31):
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It is interesting timing.
You're gonna watch a great soccer,
football, soccer game,
and then also the Super
Bowls this weekend, so.
That's right, go birds.
Is that right?
Is that what we said?
Go birds.
That's exactly what we say.
(03:52):
Yeah, you learn well.
Tell me about Eagles fans,
because they have a bad reputation.
If you go down in history,
there are a handful of incidents
that kind of solidified Eagles fandom.
Like years ago, there was a Santa Claus
at one of the games,
and everyone was literally
(04:12):
throwing snowballs at him.
Now that's just,
that's actually pretty tame.
That's not the worst
thing I've ever heard.
It's Christmas, Santa, Snowballs.
Eagles fans are known
for being passionate.
Philadelphia is a no bullshit town.
It's show up to work,
blue collar, very grounded.
(04:34):
The Eagles is such a
huge part of Philadelphia.
I'm in South Jersey, I
grew up in South Jersey.
I was born outside of Philly.
I was gonna ask.
So this is kind of, yeah.
So Jersey, like if you're from Jersey,
there's a chance you'd
be an Eagles fan, is that?
Oh, 100%.
Okay.
We have a lot of Eagles.
I think for the most part, for a while,
the Eagles actually
practice in South Jersey.
(04:54):
A lot of them live in South Jersey.
We're right across the border.
Philadelphia is literally a drive
over the bridge for 20 minutes.
So South Jersey is all Eagles fans.
Obviously we've been doing
really well as a sports team
for the past 10, 15 years, which is nice,
but we were one of those tortured fans
trying to win a championship,
(05:16):
and it's been taking
forever to finally do it,
and we finally did in 2018.
I was actually there.
I actually went to the
Super Bowl that year.
That's right, I remember.
And so it's one of the
top things in my life
that I've ever experienced.
Anyway, so--
Did you go to the Eagles
fans in the Super Bowl?
Yeah, I did.
I went to two years ago in Kansas City.
That's right, I remember that.
(05:36):
Oh, I'm sorry, two years ago in Phoenix.
We're trying to repair the reputation,
but for the most part,
it's all kind of in the past.
There's a tradition in Philadelphia
where fans climb up the
street poles, the street lamps.
It's a tradition.
(05:57):
Is that a bird thing?
I don't understand the reference.
They just like--
Actually, I didn't even think about that.
That's brilliant.
I don't think that that's a connection,
but that makes a lot of sense.
There was a few years back,
City put out an announcement.
They are greasing the street poles.
Meaning, do not try to climb them.
We're greasing them, okay?
This gives you an idea where we're at.
(06:17):
This is where we're at.
Surprised at the hysteria surrounding
some American football games.
I went to tailgate at a
Northwestern Ohio State game
in Columbus, Ohio, back in 2008.
I was amazed at how the
entire city of Columbus
showed up for the game.
Everybody was out in the street.
(06:38):
Everybody was all about football.
It's like a religion there.
We don't have anything
to compare that to here.
So you guys don't,
and when I say you guys,
I'm assuming you're talking
about in Dublin or Ireland,
you guys don't go nuts over soccer?
It's just not quite the same.
There is very passionate
fans, and there's rivalries,
and all that kind of stuff,
(06:59):
but it's not quite the same as that.
The numbers aren't quite as big.
People do get very passionate
about international soccer and rugby,
and then we also have
Gaelic football and hurling.
Just split up a little bit, segmented.
It's split between different sports,
and it's also not the
whole city showing up
and everything being about that one team.
(07:19):
It hasn't always been like this.
There was other
sports that were competing,
but it is so dominant
right now for various reasons.
I'm not gonna go into that,
but I just want you
to, across the nation,
there's a reason why
football is the best TV product,
and this is what everyone watches.
These people wanna leave
it all out on the field.
(07:41):
There's very little taking days off.
I'm still biased.
I think it's the ultimate
team sport in America right now.
The other thing I will say is,
to go along with these rivalries,
especially here in America,
and unfortunately for various reasons,
we're very polarized in America
when it comes to
different cities and states,
and there's sometimes
politics involved in these rivalries.
(08:03):
So one of our division
rivals was the Dallas Cowboys.
Dallas Cowboys, Philadelphia Eagles,
Philadelphia, Dallas.
You can't get two cities
that are more different,
and that is kind of
like one of those things,
the beauty of America,
where you travel across the country,
you realize, hey, all these
communities are so different.
That makes us hate each
(08:25):
other even more, right?
And I'm just being honest,
and a lot of that has to do
with so much beyond the sport,
beyond the game of football,
which is actually kind of awesome.
That being said, you'd hope that no one
gets hurt or killed.
For here, I played a
little bit of rugby in school,
and rugby is an incredible team sport.
I played soccer my whole life.
(08:45):
That was my main sport, and still is.
But rugby, I'm glad I got to experience
what it's like to play rugby,
because everything is for the team.
They talk about all this stuff,
and I played when I was 16,
and they were talking about,
"You put your body on
the line for this team."
You know what I mean?
That's drilled into you
from a very young age.
Also, to be fair, rugby
is actually very similar
to American football.
(09:05):
If you're just tuning in, guys,
welcome to the Actors Guide to Sports
that we like and don't.
(laughing) So, this kind of lit up
a fire in a lot of actors
in the past, let's see,
this happened January 30th.
So, this is actually pretty recent.
A lot of different
opinions are going off about this.
There was a podcast between a couple
(09:26):
of Atlanta-based directors.
Casting director.
Casting directors.
The podcast was
talking about how much time
they spend watching self-tapes.
One of them laughs and admits
that she spends four seconds
to watch most of these tapes.
And I will quote, and
(09:47):
I'll give these names
just for context.
This is Raven Drummer and Tiffany Rocher.
To be clear, they're both
co-hosting this podcast.
Raven Drummer was the
one asking the question.
Tiffany Rocher was the one admitting
to give very little
time to audition tapes.
Let's just start back
(10:08):
for people who don't know.
A self-tape is where you tape an audition
and you send it in.
Since the pandemic, particularly,
most of our auditions are self-tapes.
So, you will get a scene or two scenes
and you will tape them
at home with a reader
and you will send them to your agent
and they'll send them
onto the casting director.
(10:28):
In some ways, it's been great for us
because you can do it
from anywhere, really.
You don't have to go into a
casting director's office.
On the other hand of that,
they see a lot more people for roles now
because they get a load of tapes.
So, that's just to
give you the background
of what a self-tape is
and how they look at them.
(10:50):
Now, for a casting
director to spend four seconds
on a tape, I think is crazy.
Because, one, not just
because it takes a lot of effort
to put these tapes together.
We are now responsible as
actors for our lighting,
our sound quality, for getting a reader,
for all of the technical aspects of that,
(11:13):
as well as all the performance aspects,
packaging it up and sending it off.
In the old days, before
self-tapes were the norm,
you would go into a
casting director's office
and you would do an in-person audition.
So, they would provide a reader,
you would go in, you
would do the audition.
That's just to give
people who weren't familiar
with the process, that's the background.
(11:34):
I think four seconds on an audition tape
is pretty insulting, I don't know.
What do you think?
No, no, yeah, yeah, I think
this is a good place to start
and I, let me just clarify this.
According to this article,
Raven Drummer laughs out loud
as she listens to fellow casting director
admit to giving very
little time to audition tapes.
Rocher says, "I'm dead serious.
(11:55):
"Does it take eight seconds to figure out
"if it's a man or a woman?
"Does it take 10 seconds to figure out
"if it's an Amazon driver or surgeon?"
No, when someone shows up as they are,
they show up as they are.
That's the human process.
So, when I come across this tape
and they are what
they are from second one,
from beginning, yeah,
they're in character.
They're telling the story.
That's what I'm hiring them to do.
I'm not waiting to figure
(12:16):
out if they can convince me
if they can do the job.
So, I just wanna be clear,
that wasn't Raven Drummer
saying that, that was Tiffany Rocher.
I think there's a lot of
lessons in this for actors
that we'll get into.
Because, in an attempt to be fair,
I don't know Raven Drummer personally,
but I know that I've
auditioned for her in the past
(12:38):
and still do.
Raven Drummer, from what I understand,
is a gift to a lot of actors and a
champion for actors.
She's been doing it
for a really long time.
And she was not the one
who was saying four seconds.
And I'm gonna go into
what she responded with
and what her methodology was,
which was actually also educational.
(13:00):
Tiffany Rocher, and
this is not any shade,
Tiffany Rocher, on her credit,
she has one major TV show
for Tyler Perry, I believe.
She doesn't have as
much work as Raven Drummer.
And that was the one
saying the four seconds.
So, I just wanna clarify here,
we're not here to demonize anyone.
We're trying to make sense of it
and we're trying to make
sense of it for any actors, okay?
(13:22):
No one is going to defend this.
A lot of people
thought it was insensitive.
They removed this clip of
their podcast on their Instagram,
or at least on this link, it was removed.
The podcast is still up.
So, I actually listened
to their actual podcast.
So, I wanted to listen
to it fully in context,
(13:44):
in conversation.
I have questions about those comments.
I have questions.
She sounds like she's
talking about specifically
two, three-line costars.
Amazon delivery man, doctor.
And it just seems so reductive.
You're telling me that you're gonna watch
(14:06):
an eight-page series regular
of all the different colors and varieties
and four seconds, across
the board, four seconds.
It just so, I'm wondering
if it was a great clicky bit
for a podcast or this
is literally your MO
that you've been doing for seven years.
And I wanna get into what
(14:27):
Raven Drummer's methodology was,
which was more, to be
honest, it was a lot better.
The other question is, is
she a good casting director?
Is she a good casting director?
Does her work speak for itself
where this is her methodology?
If she's the most
brilliant casting director,
we can't really fault it.
This is her methodology.
(14:47):
That means that she's
not going to really see
the actors making different choices.
She's not seeing the
moments at the end of the tape.
And what do her producers
think that she's proclaiming
that she's watching all
these tapes for four seconds?
What do her bosses think of all this?
(15:07):
Yeah, that's true.
What is their job?
If they're going to be
a great casting director
and they're going to
discover the next Edward Norton,
then good luck doing
the four-second role.
I just think four
seconds is so dismissive.
And I saw the clip and
she was quite proud of it.
Oh, you did see the clip.
She was quite proud of it.
Oh, wow, they pulled it
down after that, yeah.
(15:28):
She was kind of laughing at that.
You're right, she did seem--
She was dead.
She wasn't apologetic or anything.
She was just like, nope, I
know, I know in four seconds.
Which to me, smacks of hubris,
I don't know, it just
seems a bit arrogant to me
to say that you could
know within four seconds
(15:48):
where other people take more time.
I understand that I have
known and it's common knowledge
that casting directors do not
watch all of our self-tapes.
And a lot of them admit or swear that
they watch all of them.
A lot of them do.
Oh, well, that's great.
I mean, I hope they do.
But I also know as
actors, and I've done it myself,
sometimes you'll
agonize over a choice you made
(16:10):
towards the end of a tape.
Whereas, it's not always being seen.
But I think for her to
admit that is really silly,
it doesn't do her any favors.
It doesn't serve her in any way.
I agree.
That's a big swing.
And this is the first
episode of their podcast.
You know, as an actor,
and I don't wanna be completely naive,
(16:33):
this is an indication
and a perfect example
of where our industry is right now.
This is an industry
that's becoming overrun
with capitalism, high profits,
overworking everything, you
know, for the smallest role,
you are going to see
50 to 100 some tapes.
(16:56):
The question is, is
it physically possible
to watch for every
role, a three-minute tape?
Yeah.
It might not be physically
possible in this day and age.
And I'm not defending it,
but what I'm saying is, is that was
compared to 15 people
going into a room and they see 15 people
(17:17):
for this one co-star.
So this is where the demands are going.
And I want to say in
defense of casting directors,
because I know a
number of casting directors,
I've been a reader for casting directors.
Casting directors are, in my experience,
champions of actors, they like actors.
So I think she just doesn't do,
(17:38):
she doesn't do the
profession any good by, you know,
she's kind of actively harming the image
of casting directors by saying that,
because I guarantee
you that's not the norm.
I would almost guarantee you
that most casting directors
are watching more than
four seconds of a tape.
Like you said, it can be, you know,
it can be physically impossible
to watch every tape start to finish,
(18:01):
but I think that
there's more consideration
than just the first four seconds.
A more reasonable take is
Raven Drummer was saying,
I have a lot of actors
that I've known over the years
who I know are strong actors,
and it's gonna be more common for me
to watch their entire tapes.
She didn't give a timeframe,
(18:21):
a bullet, a black and
white four second time limit.
She said, I know a lot of great actors,
I will watch their entire tape.
And I will watch, did
they get these moments?
Is this what I'm looking for?
But she, a lot of great actors,
you earned this trust that I know that
you put out good work.
(18:44):
The rest of the competition,
she would measure against that tape.
That sounds reasonable.
That actually sounds like a lot of things
that sometimes we learn in class
over training over at Lesley Con.
Because if you're missing
in the first four seconds
or first 10 seconds,
if you missed three, four or five moments
that other people crushed, guess what?
(19:06):
They're probably not going to give you
too much more time after that.
And I'm just being realistic
from what I feel like the
standards are right now.
Anyway, I thought that was a little more
reasonable and
realistic. It's interesting.
I'd love to hear more
casting directors takes on it
because that's interesting.
Earning the right to sort
of have your tape viewed.
(19:27):
I don't know how I feel
about that, to be honest,
but look, that's the way she works.
I feel you.
Let me put it this way.
Daniel Day-Lewis walks into your office.
I would love to see someone
cut him off after four seconds.
My point is, is, I'm just saying,
isn't it human nature to be like,
(19:47):
okay, Daniel Day-Lewis is
going out for this role.
Let's see what he got.
I think a lot of that past work in
history and reputation
does come along with some actors.
Say you're completely
fresh, completely brand new,
but you're like, wow, okay, there's
something about him.
In that first four seconds moment before,
I'm still watching.
(20:08):
And then it's still good.
And then more moments are not lost.
And then I was like,
you kind of are giving me
a reason to keep watching.
I would want to say
that a great self-tape
is asking that from ourselves, or at
least that's the bar,
whether you're Daniel
Day-Lewis or a no name.
What do we do with this information?
And is this just a really telling example
(20:30):
of what the industry has become
and what our mindset needs to be
when it comes to these tapes?
Leslie would agree with this.
Even more so during self-tapes,
crush your first four seconds.
I mean, that's the one thing
that we can take away from all this.
Crush your first four
seconds, crush your moment before,
you need to crush it
because apparently some people,
(20:51):
maybe not just this one,
is watching for only four seconds.
A huge casting director,
former casting director,
now acting teacher, just put out a video
of her response of it yesterday.
So I think a lot of this stuff needs
to be talked about right
now and we parse through,
hey, let's not overreact, let's not,
what do we learn from this?
You know what I mean?
(21:11):
Yeah, it just kind of clarifies for me
how we just have to
be great at what we do
and to be really specific and really,
as accurate as possible and
come in as that character.
Everything that we learn in class.
Going back to, and I
don't want to dig into this
and dig up old wounds.
There was a big
controversy back and forth
(21:31):
about how Atlanta
casting director was supposedly
getting into a spat
over Twitter of all things,
so on and so forth.
The casting directors
were almost taking pride
in the fact that they can
get decent actors for cheaper,
despite Atlanta having Marvel films
and all the Marvel projects
and huge big budget TV shows.
It's just interesting how
this is Atlanta yet again.
(21:53):
I feel like this is
kind of the growing pains
of a market that is doing very well
and in a way trying to
become Hollywood 2.0.
Hopefully we can grow from this.
Hey, I audition and I work in Atlanta.
I would hope that we can
kind of get to a common ground
of respect for a
(22:14):
community for all departments.
Yeah, and I would
recommend it to any actor
if you get the chance.
Be a reader for a casting director.
Be a reader for auditions
and see how people come into the room.
See how they show up.
You'll see the people who are prepared.
You'll see that some people can be great,
but just one of them
is right for the role
and the other isn't for whatever reason.
I was a reader for a casting
(22:35):
director in Chicago one time
and a guy came in and he
didn't give a great audition.
And the casting
director said to the director,
who's in the room,
she goes, "I'm so sorry.
"He's a great actor normally.
"I'm gonna find out what's going on."
She went and she called that guy's agent
and the agent said
right before the audition,
his mother went into hospital.
So he came in out of his
(22:56):
mind, stressed out and worried.
And he came in and did the audition
and he was all over the
place and you could tell.
And she went back in
and told the director,
she goes, "Somebody had a personal issue.
"His mother went into hospital.
"I think it would be
good to bring him in again
"because I know he can do the job."
You become peers and
you become colleagues.
You're helping them do a job.
(23:17):
You're providing your
services as an actor
for this casting director.
It helps destroy the wall
of, hey, they're against us
or they have status above us.
One of the greatest
things I've ever done,
I was a casting director,
I was a reader for a casting office.
One of the best casting
offices in Hollywood still,
(23:37):
my first handful of jobs
that I booked was through them.
So under the table, they'd be like,
"Hey, read for this, hey, read for this."
A lot of these jobs left the industry
because they were getting in trouble
because they were interns.
It's a shame for a lot of other actors
because a lot of actors are like,
"I wanna watch these auditions.
"I wanna read with all these actors."
(23:57):
Just to put a cherry on
top of all this stuff.
If you create your own
short, write, direct,
produce your own projects,
and if you put out an audition
on LA Casting or Actors Access,
and you see 300 tapes come
in, it's gonna be mind blowing.
The experience that you're
gonna get from auditioning
and you have one role to cast,
and you're going to see one person
(24:18):
just completely nailed it,
and you're gonna see all
these other great actors
that you're not gonna cast.
Yeah, that's a great point actually,
because we did see someone
we know in our class did that,
and it opened up his
eyes to the casting process,
and he was able to talk about it then
from a different point of view.
Yeah, interestingly enough,
casting directors is in the Oscar
competition right now.
(24:39):
Right, so.
Actually, is it?
I don't remember the nominations.
Oh, films released in 2025 and beyond.
2026.
Next year. Okay, 2026.
Well, there you go.
So, the industry is
shifting, and to your point,
casting director is going to get
acknowledged by the Academy
for another thing
that's happening right now.
Okay, where do we
(25:00):
start with Amelia Perez?
Now, this is not going to be a dive
into Carla Gascon getting canceled.
By the way, her Oscar
campaign was born and died
before you and I even got
a chance to watch a movie.
We're not going to get into all that.
That's actually a side issue
(25:21):
for what we were really gonna get into,
but let's just address it really quick,
being up with this, right?
Yeah, yeah, I read, I saw her tweets.
First, trans actor
nominated, best actress,
makes history, and Amelia
Perez has the most nominations
in history for a foreign language film.
And next thing you
know, tweets were discovered
(25:42):
regarding speaking about
past Oscars being woke.
She had comments about Gaza.
Just across the
gamut, they were uncovered.
And in the blink of eye, I
see a headline the next day,
her Oscar campaign is dead.
She recently said she's not
(26:02):
getting out of the competition.
She did make formal apologies.
Zoe Zaldana, who's nominated as well,
and also in the movie,
says she does not approve.
And just recently, the director
has not spoken to her at all,
and disavows Carla Sofia Gascon.
(26:25):
So the director says,
"Hey, I stand up for the film
"during this award
season, but disavows Gascon."
Yeah, it's--
We're just going to put
that out just for context.
This is what happened.
She's still in the competition,
and apparently Netflix is pulling her
from all the Oscars campaign award stuff.
(26:47):
Yeah.
When you say an Oscar's campaign,
do you mean that she is
campaigning for her own Oscar?
What else goes into that?
So that's a really great point.
And I want to say
this, not being cynical,
there is so much money behind
(27:10):
these award shows and campaigns.
How long have we been
talking about screenings
and award screenings and FYC screenings?
We've been talking
about it for three months.
That's how much money
they've been throwing at it.
They go, "We're gonna book this theater
"so everyone can see Amelia Perez.
"We're gonna have
Selena Gomez and Zoe Zaldana
(27:33):
"go over there.
"There's gonna be a reception.
"We're gonna have a whole
staff working these events.
"This has been going on straight for
three and a half months.
"And if you're a huge
movie getting 13 nominations
"for Oscar, that's a lot of
money that's been going out.
"That's for a director as well.
"That's across the world.
"You know, they're doing screenings
"across the world right
now so everyone can see it."
(27:55):
That is how much money.
So here we are, Carla Gascon says,
"I'm not stepping out of the competition
"even though I apologize."
And everyone's like,
"We're probably not gonna vote for you."
Everyone else in the movie, Netflix,
they already put so much money into this
and they got a chance to win Oscars.
So they're going to push all these things
(28:17):
and maybe just leave her out.
When does the voting close?
How late is too late?
You know, if a scandal
breaks after voting is done.
Oh, that's a great point.
That's a great point.
Let's look at this.
Oh, okay, well that's reasonable.
Final voting isn't until
February 11th to February 18th.
Okay, so there you go.
So she's blown it now.
There's no way she wins.
(28:38):
Yeah, exactly.
So if anyone changed their mind,
they are going to vote for it next week.
So there you go.
And how as an actor do you get asked
to be a member of the Academy?
Or...
Oh, we'll dive into all this
disgusting back alley mess too
because this is part of the issue.
(28:59):
You have to get nominated
to become part of the Academy
and all that stuff.
So the question is, is
there enough diversity in that?
That's a whole, another rabbit hole.
Moving beyond this, I will add,
you sent me this great article.
After a lot of this debacle,
people had issues with this film
(29:20):
because it's a film in
which a cartel kingpin emerges
as a women's right
activist about Mexican culture.
None of them are Mexican.
Carlos Sofia Gascón is Spanish.
And it's written,
directed by a French director.
Everyone's so happy that this is getting
so many nominations and
(29:41):
everyone's loving this movie so much.
It's kind of crazy how
much everyone was loving it.
It was sweeping the awards.
Latinos and a lot of
Mexicans were quietly saying,
well, no one that's part of
the movie is actually Mexican.
I do want to add, Selena
Gomez apparently is of Mexican
and Italian descent, is tons of money.
There's this huge spotlight.
(30:03):
This is the most nominations
for a foreign language film in history.
And now it might be
just incredibly different.
And you know, I suppose
it only occurred to me
when you were saying there Oscar,
campaigning for her Oscar,
that means like an Oscar
nomination for an actor
or a film itself
means so much to that film
(30:24):
in terms of revenue, I would imagine,
because it puts it in a category
that people are
automatically gonna watch.
I wonder, I'd love to
know how much that adds
in value to a movie
if it's Oscar nominated
or if one of the actors in it,
I mean, then the movie obviously,
you know, nominated for
one Oscar or whatever.
I didn't even think
of that was, I suppose.
They're like, oh, they
just picked the best films,
(30:45):
you know, people vote.
But it's, so of course
people put money into campaign,
like the screenings.
I hadn't even thought
about the cost of screenings
and how much that costs.
I've heard people close to
behind the scenes in studios
dealing with awards, dealing with events,
and they're talking
about Oscar campaigns.
They are literally trying to win Oscars.
(31:08):
They, it's not so-and-so
A-list actor winning Oscar,
it's we didn't win an Oscar.
It's the campaign didn't win an Oscar.
It's, hey, we did everything right.
Every article, every
headline, every blurb,
how do we not win?
It was eye-opening.
It was eye-opening because, you know,
on the artistic side,
(31:28):
we would like to say,
do a great job, vote for the best movie,
vote for the best performance.
But, you know, on the
studio side, that's what that is.
Yeah.
Anyway, so what I
really wanted to get into,
there was AI used in Emile
Pérez and The Brutalist,
both huge favorites,
heavily nominated films.
(31:48):
There was AI used in both those films.
We're gonna talk about, is it fair?
Is it overblown?
And is this yet another
indication of where we are
in our industry?
Yeah.
Anyway, The Brutalist,
Adrian Brody plays a,
trying to do--
Was it Hungarian or something?
Hungarian. I think it's Hungarian.
Yeah, thank you.
(32:09):
That was part of that, that
was what the AI was used for.
Right, was AI, was
pronunciation of Hungarian words
that he couldn't quite get.
So this is the Hungarian accent.
They used AI to tweak,
perfect, or improve the accent.
And Emile Pérez, Carlos
Sofia Gascon is a singer,
(32:30):
or it's a musical, so
they're singing in the film.
The singing voice was blended with that
of the French pop star Camille,
who co-wrote the music for the movie.
This is the controversy of
what was being picked apart
the past month and a half.
Now, a lot of people in the
(32:51):
crew and in the film world
are saying, guys,
they've been doing this,
things like this, for a long time.
And maybe we just didn't know,
maybe it's become
easier and cheaper using AI.
It's just, AI is such
a buzzword right now.
(33:13):
For those that don't
know, we talked about a lot
during the actors and writers' strike,
AI is a huge thing
going on for the past year,
if not longer.
So this is gonna light up a
lot of actors and creatives.
It's because it's AI
that it's concerning.
If you said they got a Hungarian actor
to dub certain lines,
(33:34):
it wouldn't be the same conversation.
Which is, in some ways
is kind of the same thing.
You're replacing
dialogue with something else.
As far as the, in Amelia Perez,
if they got another singer to just sing
and she just lip
synced, you know what I mean?
Or they dubbed over her singing,
it wouldn't be the same controversy.
(33:56):
I think just the fact that it's AI
and because of what AI has
the potential to be able to do
is why it's more concerning.
Because if you allow
it for certain things,
are you opening the door
to people being replaced?
All of the fears that we've talked about
and that people are
talking about with AI.
That's where it's tricky.
Those two things are
(34:16):
relatively innocuous, I think,
in isolation, but I
don't know if you take them
into the larger context
of where we headed with it.
Two lead actors nominate for best actor.
It's one thing to be like,
hey, number 10 on the call sheet.
I had you saying this word,
but instead you say this word
and we didn't have you
(34:39):
bother you, come to set.
We used AI to generate the scene.
Because obviously we're creatives,
sometimes we might be a little naive,
we might be a little idealistic.
Do you care the fact
that lead actor performance
is being voted on?
Call her Sophia Gascon.
We would like to think, oh my God,
(35:00):
she trained for years to sing that part.
How beautiful does she sound?
Do you actually knock
points off of that performance
because it was enhanced?
Now, if they openly said, yeah,
we blended it with this other pop star,
we just thought that it worked.
There's part of me when
you vote for best actor,
(35:22):
you're kind of want to believe the lie
that they're actually doing the job.
Now, I don't want to
be too harsh about that.
I want to believe Adrian
Brody worked his ass off
perfecting their Hungarian accent.
I heard he did.
I read that he did a lot
of work on that accent.
And there was just certain sounds that,
(35:43):
unless you're a native
Hungarian speaker, you can't make.
And that's the question.
That is a directorial decision.
No one outside of Hungary is going to
tell the difference.
Apparently it might've
been really, really important
to get it perfect and get it authentic.
Rami Malek, when he played,
(36:03):
Oh, Bohemian Rhapsody?
When he played Freddie Mercury.
I believe there was another singer who
sang the songs, right?
I don't have a problem with that.
Oh, I don't either.
My point is, first of
all, as long as you're honest
and you put it out there,
then that's all we can ask.
And it's a directorial
decision, whether you say,
(36:23):
I want to fix this with AI or I don't.
Malek sang some of the parts in the film,
producers inserted vocal
stems from Queen songs,
as well as filling in parts
with Canadian vocalist Mark Martell.
My point is, is you could
easily do that and not use AI.
That's true.
Yeah, that's true.
I think that's the point.
Why use AI?
(36:43):
By the same argument, why not use AI?
I mean, as a producer, like I don't mean.
Oh, I love this.
My mind just blew up
when you just said that.
Okay, let's dig into that.
I was going to get into this later.
We were going into the Super Bowl
and a lot of people were
gearing up in the ad world
saying that, hey, the
Super Bowl is going to be huge
(37:04):
with commercials with AI.
And in ad week, no
robots at the big game,
why AI made ads are
sitting out Super Bowl 59.
Brands are treading lightly
when it comes to AI during the big game.
At least now, in five
years it might be different,
but in at least now, I
think a lot of people
who can read the room
should be asking themselves,
(37:25):
how much worth it is it to use AI?
That means that we're spending less money
to do this technical advancement
and we're spending less money for crew.
So it's basically a PR decision.
I wonder how long that'll last
and if the public
will just get, you know,
will just accept it.
So when we vote for best actors,
because a lot of people
were opposing this question
(37:45):
and it just so happens we have two actors
being nominated for best actor.
Does it make a difference
when you vote for best actor?
Hey, this was tweaked with AI.
Hungarian accent is
kind of a perfect example.
We won't know how good he was.
As actors, you and me would
like to do a lot of skills.
We would like to
learn how to ride a horse,
shoot a gun and expect
them to actually do the thing.
(38:07):
Would you want AI to make
Ryan Gosling and Emma Stone
better singers in La La Land?
Would you want them to be better dancers?
Or do you want them to
actually see what they're doing
and also get nominated for the--
Personally, I would
rather see what they're doing.
I mean, I'm supposing this is a question.
I don't need them to be perfect.
You know what I mean?
I need them to be perfect
singers, perfect dancers.
(38:28):
So my own personal preference, yes.
A lot of people hated the
singing in La La Land, right?
Musical theater geeks.
It did not rub them the right way.
That being said, the
performance was what it was
and they got nominated and they, you
know, Emma Stone won.
The last thing I will
say is just I have a friend
who's the head of a visual effects
(38:49):
company or at a studio.
He's one of the heads of the department.
He's high enough to
still have a job right now,
which is good because they've been
cutting departments.
I would love to have him
on the show at some point.
Obviously, the easiest
thing is stunt people.
You have Mark
Wahlberg running into a fire.
Sure, it would be
(39:09):
nice to digitally do this
where the stunt man runs into the fire
and makes it look like Mark Wahlberg.
That's fine.
Everyone wins, no one gets killed.
He's saying, you have no idea.
We've been perfecting performances
from the greatest actors
in the world digitally.
What?
They mumble through their lines.
They're saying all
that, I'm not telling you.
(39:29):
Their head is over here.
They've been doing that digitally.
We had no idea.
They said we've been
cleaning up wardrobe.
They've won Oscars for wardrobe
that they've been cleaning up digitally.
These are the things that are
happening behind the scenes,
trying to be fair and we're trying
not to be completely naive.
Well, I didn't know that.
(39:50):
Exactly, and we all wanted to believe
that A-list superstar is always amazing.
They're not.
Where's the line drawn
that we didn't need absolute perfection.
We would have loved
this movie regardless.
You know how we always say,
hey, they'll fix it in post.
What about they just
say, we'll fix it with AI.
Jesus, I had no idea.
This is a pretty big revelation.
(40:10):
The idealistic side of me-- I do.
Wants them to do the real thing.
I don't want anything to be fixed up,
but we're being unrealistic.
I don't need perfection.
And in performance,
that's what makes performance
as interesting.
It's not perfection
that makes it interesting.
It's flaws that make it interesting.
It's like, I think that's
what makes humans interesting.
Exactly.
Does it feel real?
(40:31):
Does it feel lived in?
Do we feel the soul of it?
So it's basically, how do
we have enough power to say,
no, we don't want AI in these things
versus money people,
basically, who want AI
because it lowers their costs
and increases their profits.
So that's the fight.
We might get to a point
where money's not everything.
(40:52):
Stay in LA.
Hey, let's rebuild LA.
Let's push productions to stay in LA
because it's important
and because LA needs help.
That's not about the bottom line.
That's the question.
Because there's always going to be a
cheaper way to get it done.
I feel like we didn't solve a lot or come
to many conclusions,
(41:13):
but I feel slightly more scared.
Yeah, yeah.
I think that was the
purpose of this conversation.
I'm glad that came through.
I feel slightly more
unsettled than I did when
I came into this conversation.
Oh, man.
Yeah, I needed to get
that out of my system.
Do you happen to have a hidden gem?
I do, I think.
My hidden gem for this week, I want to
say really cool show.
It's called Accents, written and
(41:35):
performed by Emmett Kirwan.
I saw it at the Civic Theatre in Tallah,
but it is on tour around Ireland.
I think the next stop
is The Mermaid in Bray,
which is a really cool theater.
But he's got two musicians on stage,
and he does storytelling, spoken words,
which he's sort of famous for.
He's well known for in Ireland, if you
(41:56):
know who Emmett Kirwan is.
But it's brilliant.
And he touches on a lot of topics, sort
of the birth of his child,
but he weaves in a lot of things.
He's been very outspoken on a lot of
social issues in Ireland.
And there was a musician called Owen
French, who sadly passed away
last year of cancer.
It went by the name Talos,
but he was a brilliant musician.
(42:16):
And he wrote the music for this show.
This is a great show.
So if you have a chance to go see it,
Accents, it's called.
I want to give a shout out to this one.
No, we've got to talk about Dog Man.
Talk about Dog Man.
He texted me as far
as this Dog Man thing.
See, the fact that you didn't know, this
is an animated film,
(42:38):
literally in theaters
in America right now.
Dog Man, part dog, part man, all hero.
Human police officer and
his faithful police dog
are injured together on the job.
But a life-saving surgery
fuses the two of them together.
The police officer's man is screwed up.
The dog is also injured,
(42:59):
but his body's screwed up.
So what do they do?
They put the dog's
head on the man's body.
Crazy.
I'm not even joking around.
And this is an animated kids movie.
And apparently, it's heartwarming.
It's heartfelt.
I basically heard someone describing it.
I was like, this is so ridiculous.
(43:20):
But apparently, it's a decent movie.
That's your hidden gem.
Go watch that with your family.
Well, also, to be
fair, Dog Man is literally
in theaters across the country.
So I don't even know if
that's really that hidden.
Just give it a little light.
Give it a little light to
these smaller, weird dog voices.
Give it a boost.
All right, guys.
Hope you enjoyed it.
(43:41):
Have a great one.
We'll see you next week.
Absolutely.
See you then.
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