January 10, 2024 • 38 mins
Today’s guest is Virtual Assistant and author Kathy Soulsby. Kathy has just published How to Work with a Virtual Assistant: Outsource Everything but Your Brilliance. If you are wondering about getting support and don’t know how, listen in! This episode is full of insights about what to outsource and how to do it. Kathy started as a VA in 2014 and now leads a team of 30.
Contact Kathy Soulsby through Linked In or www.personallyvirtual.co.uk
Remember to subscribe or follow The Coaching Inn wherever you access your podcasts to get every new episode as they drop.
Keywords
virtual assistant, VA, outsourcing, business support, hiring a VA, finding the right fit
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're at the Coaching Inn, 3D Coaching'svirtual pub where we enjoy conversations
with people who engage in the world ofcoaching.
Hello and welcome to this week's editionof The Coaching In.
I'm Claire Pedrick and today my guest sentme an email when I sent her the joining
(00:23):
notes and said, please wear a headset.
And she went, it's so amazing to be sentthose because normally I send them out to
other coaches because today's guest is avirtual assistant, the angel of coaching,
Kathy Salisby.
Welcome to The Coaching In.
Hi Claire.
Thank you so much for inviting me.
(00:43):
That was so funny.
Yeah.
I can't tell you how many times I havesent that email going, please don't be in
a cafe with, you know, coffee grindersgoing off and dodgy Wi Fi in the
background when you join a podcast.
And then I, I literally made myself put myheadset on my desk last night.
(01:05):
So the shame of being that guest.
It's all right.
You're not that guest.
I can tell everybody she's wearing aheadset.
I am.
So Cathy, you've written a book about howto work with a VA and what an amazing
thing that is.
How, why, if, because, but before we talkabout VA's, tell us a bit about you.
(01:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I had a very varied career, pre -VA-dom.
I was a restaurant manager for many years.
and worked in pubs after graduating.
I then was desperate for what I thought ofas a proper job behind a desk, mainly
because I have quite a bad hip.
(01:53):
So running up and down restaurant stairsis not good for me.
So I took a job as a customer relationsexecutive and nobody threw garlic bread at
my head, which was vast improvement onrestaurant life as far as I was concerned.
And then,
I fell into being a PA and I really didfall.
(02:13):
I have no PA skills whatsoever.
I can't touch type.
I definitely can't audio type.
And I just, I didn't really fancy thetitle secretary, but when I fell into
being a PA, it was like I came homebecause actually what you get to do as a
PA is organize people.
And I love organizing people and you getto help them do what it is that they do.
(02:38):
and support them to do that and make theirlives easier.
And that, I just love that.
That's what makes me happy every day.
So, yeah, I fell into being a PA.
And after many years of PA -ing formanagement consultancies, coaches, and
kind of individual folk, I decided to setup on my own as a VA in 2014.
(03:03):
And I've been going ever since.
And there's now me and I have a team of30.
associates who work with me and we supportall sorts of people.
We have a lot of coaches on the books,still a lot of consultants and a few left
field folk who do all sorts of things.
But it's great fun and I get to see what Ilove every single day.
(03:27):
I think I might have a new customer foryou.
always nice.
Who falls into the and other folk.
Yes.
Yes.
It's funny, isn't it?
When you say something and it triggers aconnection.
Yeah.
If you'd said to me, do you know anybodywho?
I probably wouldn't have made thatconnection at all.
(03:50):
But you just described somebody I wastalking to last week.
Other folk.
Other folk who do kind of things.
Do stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
People who do things.
That's it.
People who do things.
People who have a busy life.
I'm really interested that you've comeinto this organizing people thing from
customer service rather than from detailadmin.
(04:15):
As you said, touch typing.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Those skills are wildly helpful, perhapsless so these days than in times gone by.
But actually, with the improvedtechnology, there's much less need to do
things like audio typing or, you know, mycobbled together typing is absolutely
(04:37):
fine.
Because to be honest, I'm not, you know,somebody's not dictating a letter to me
these days.
They're, you know, leaving a voice memogoing, Kathy, can you reply to so and so?
Tell them yes, but not yet.
And can you reply to this person for myemails and say,
Thanks, we've already got a charity of theyear, try again next year, you know, and
(04:58):
they, I get to use my brain, I'm not justa funnel for somebody else.
That's the joy of having a really good EAwho understands you.
And to be honest, one of my bosses who Iworked with for the longest period of time
was over 10 years, I could write an emailat her and within several weeks, neither
(05:20):
she or I could tell which one of us hadwritten it.
because I just, I was her brain.
You know, I knew what her response wouldbe and I knew her tone and I could write
that email and no one could really tellthe difference.
So, you know, when it's a long way downthe line, that level of understanding
somebody else's ways of working, but it'sentirely possible.
(05:42):
And it's so easy to get bogged down intothe, I have to do everything mode.
And there are quicker ways of doingthings, even if you do have to do some of
it, perhaps don't have to do every lastbit of it when you've got somebody good
supporting you.
Yeah, Rebi and our comms team can write asme and I never know if I wrote it or not.
Brilliant, isn't it?
(06:03):
Absolutely brilliant.
I love it.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's interesting because in my journey,I had a VA for a long time, years and
years and years, and a team like yours.
Yeah.
And it was absolutely fabulous.
And then one day I realized that thebusiness had got to the size where I
actually needed somebody all the time.
Yeah.
(06:23):
And now we need somebody all the time.
And there was a season when papermattered, when I needed them to be able to
touch the paper.
And of course now that doesn't matter.
Yeah.
Because pretty much everything is virtual.
But why do people choose a VA, Cathy?
I think the beauty of most VAs in howthey're set up is that we support multiple
(06:47):
clients.
So your commitment is less.
We're a freelance, you invoice us businessto business with an agreed number of
hours.
So not that many people, you're at thatpoint where you need a whole PA now.
And we always think that's an amazingsuccess.
If we have to stop working with someonebecause they're ready to employ a full
-timer, that to us is like the best endingof a working relationship.
(07:12):
But most businesses don't need a whole PA.
They need an hour a day or 20 hours amonth or whatever.
And the flexibility of the VAs, you canabsolutely have that.
So you get support, but you don't have tocommit to either employing them and all
(07:32):
that entails with national insurance,holiday pay, sickness pay, all that kind
of stuff.
But you get someone who's going to workalongside you in your business.
you know, with usually with your emailaddress.
And it's yeah, you just the payoff is youdon't have them all the time.
So like you said, you needed somebody justthere when you needed them.
(07:52):
You don't have that so much with a VAbecause they're juggling multiple clients,
you only get them, you know, a couple oftimes a day or, you know, when they check
in, which some people it doesn't gel withat all.
But most businesses these days.
As long as there isn't the volume of workthere, don't need somebody, you know, old
(08:15):
school sitting outside their desk, readyto stick their head around the corner and
go, can you get me a coffee?
Or, yes, can you come in and dictate thisletter?
Times have moved on, even employed EAsnow, you know, a lot of them work
remotely, or, you know, and come into theoffice a couple of days a week.
So, yeah, it's, it's changing times, andit's much more flexible, but it's more of
(08:37):
a business.
Although we do actually have some quitebig businesses on our books as well.
We used a VA for many years to answer thephone and now nobody rings us up.
But in those days it was really funnybecause I used to work, I didn't work in
school holidays, I didn't work after Ipicked up the kids from school at half
(08:58):
past three and the VA would pick up thephone.
And I can remember one day they were quitesmall and I was watching Blue Peter with
the kids and somebody rang up.
And the VA was so good that she went 3Dcoaching, Kathy speaking, how can I help
you?
And they said, can we talk to Claire?
And Kathy said, I'm sorry, Claire's not inthe office at the moment.
And this person went, I know she's there.
(09:23):
because they knew that I was in.
Yeah.
Of course, Kathy's going, she's notworking because she, yeah, I was watching
blue Peter.
Kathy wasn't going to put a good story tome because blue Peter was much more
important.
Yeah.
but, but what that taught me was that wewere so seamless that the people who were
ringing in actually knew that they weretalking to the company, to us and not to a
(09:45):
random person outside, which wasbeautiful.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Because you're one of the team.
You are.
Absolutely.
Even if that team is only two people,you're still part of the team.
And I absolutely love that.
I love that feeling of being part of ateam, whether that's you and your client
or you and, you know, one of our clientsgot something like 200 staff.
(10:09):
So there's, there's teams and teams andteams.
And we're part of most of them.
Yeah.
wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's amazing.
So I have a question, which is in multipleparts.
So one of our listeners is going to say tome,
Claire, that was a double question.
When do people hire a VA?
And when should they?
(10:30):
When do they is usually a fraction toolate, in my experience.
They tend to look for a VA at the pointwhen it's all gone a bit pear -shaped and
they're drowning.
They perhaps have lost all semblance of awork -life balance and, you know, evenings
(10:51):
are...
spent frantically catching up on emailsand they should have done it sooner.
The challenge with doing it, so I'm goingto answer in several parts, the challenge
with doing it too late is not only thatyou're already exhausted because you're
working too hard, you also don't have thetime to commit to that new relationship,
(11:13):
which is really important.
If you're running 110 miles an hour, youhaven't got the bandwidth to then give
somebody new.
the time to train them up to explain howthings work.
You're just at the, my God, I just need tothrow tasks at this person and hope for
the best, which isn't ideal.
I mean, you know, it happens, but it's notthe best way.
(11:34):
Ideally, you need to bring a BA in beforeyou reach that tipping point.
So as soon as you can afford it, to behonest, and you might bring somebody in
doing less and then with a plan to ramp upin the future that.
is absolutely fine.
And that's how a lot of people work.
And once they get used to delegatingthings to a VA, they then discover that
(11:58):
there are more things that they candelegate or the VA will go, why are you
doing that?
We could do that quicker.
Or I'm sure I could do some of that.
You know, they find things they can takeoff you, you know, after looking even
horror and going, please tell me you don'tsit down and do that every week.
No.
So yeah, that that would be before you gettoo busy, which would be the ideal answer.
(12:20):
Yeah, it's funny because my dad diedrecently and he thought he might need
care.
So he bought in care for half an hourevery day.
But in the end, he never did.
These lovely ladies would come every dayand they emptied the dishwasher, they hung
(12:41):
out the washing, but he needed somebodythere because on the day that he needed
somebody to help him have a shower.
It was too late to find somebody to helpyou have a shower.
Yeah.
And that's what you're describing, isn'tit?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Getting somebody in who can, who canunderstand how things work, what you're
like, who your clients are, how it allfalls together before they're suddenly
(13:05):
having to do a gazillion things withoutthat background knowledge.
Absolutely.
And it may be that they do empty thedishwasher for a bit, but that's good.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It may be that they do a bit of gruntwork.
to start with as they start to see.
But I mean, I do describe the book as abit of a process you can go through to
(13:28):
work out what tasks you do every day andwhich tasks you should not be doing every
day.
And as long as you've got a reasonablechunk of those, you can be sure that
you've got something for them to do, evenif that's perhaps not getting right in
there, you know, dealing with clientqueries on day one.
It's a bit like a jam alarm, you know,once you've got to trust them and got to
(13:50):
know them.
In the old days, I had a I had an in trayfor my fantasy admin person.
Amazing.
And all the time I was working, I wouldput the things that they need to do in the
in tray.
And you could do that, couldn't you, in afolder in your emails?
(14:13):
I put everything in there and then one daythe basket was big enough that I realized
that I was spending at least three or fourhours a week doing that their work.
But then it makes it really easy todelegate because you know what their work
is because you've separated it off fromyours.
I love that.
That's such a good way of doing it in thistechnical world of just going, I shouldn't
(14:33):
be dealing with that.
Somebody else can do that and juststicking it in a folder and then examining
it.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
We do that with all our new roles,actually.
Yeah, great idea.
Just a real visual of what's there andwhat's outside of what you can be doing.
(14:53):
Because I think that one of the thingsthat I notice is that the things that are
most annoying to you are when we won't letgo or can't let go or don't let go.
Yes.
Yes.
that was a yes, yes, yes.
yes, yes.
Yeah.
Micro management.
It's a...
It's not good.
It's not good when you...
(15:14):
And I did speak to somebody yesterday whomade me laugh a lot.
So I'm definitely sensing you're not amicro -manager.
Well, I am if they're shit.
Well, you know, we're going to aim fornotch shit, if that's okay, you know, but
I get it.
I think there is a tendency when you'renervous to over -engineer and over, you
(15:35):
know, oversee things in too much detail.
But once that initial getting to know youperiod is over, you have to be a bit hands
off.
Otherwise you're not saving any time.
You know, if you're double checkingeverything, how is that freeing you up to
do other more important things?
It's not.
So yeah, micromanage it if you can.
(15:57):
There are ways of, you know, we have someclients, micromanage is a strong term, but
they're certainly very detailed focusedand they like to be in the loop on
everything.
And most VA's will be able to adjust theirways of working to fit that.
Some will find it easier than others.
It would drive me mad, but I have hadclients where I do it and you just get
(16:18):
into a rhythm of it.
And you adapt yourself to work with thatperson and their preferences.
That's part of being a really good EA andVA.
Some people are easier to adapt to thanothers.
Depending on what your working style is,I'm not naturally...
detailed person I'm much more of a give itto me I'll sort it I'll shout if there's a
(16:39):
problem kind of person so I know I workbetter with those kind of people.
Just different personalities isn't it.
Yeah.
And actually, the detail people are notthe people who need the VA first.
Possibly.
Well, maybe they are, maybe they aren't.
(17:01):
You know, some people can get themselvesso bogged down in the detail that they're
actually working more than they perhaps,you know, they perhaps need somebody to
help them prize themselves out of thedetail.
But yeah.
Yeah.
So what's your hope for your book, Cathy?
How to work with a virtual assistant,outsource everything but your brilliance,
(17:24):
great title.
Thank you.
And it's got a little bit of weird karmato it actually.
Somebody many, many years ago when I firstset up the business kind of gifted me the
outsource everything but your brillianceline.
And it was coach actually.
And we were having a coffee in a reallyunimpressive poster in a garden center,
(17:48):
just a one -to -one.
And it just came out and she kind of went,you can have that.
I was like, thanks.
And it's kind of stuck with me.
I've used it as my tagline because it justso effortlessly describes how outsourcing
works.
You know, there are things that only youcan do.
That is what you are, hopefully, paid todo.
(18:10):
And all the other stuff is not only youshouldn't be doing it, but quite often
it's...
actually dragging you down, it's using upyour headspace, and it's stopping you
growing as a business, but as a person aswell, potentially.
And I have this conversation so frequentlywith prospects and with clients, I should
(18:31):
write this down.
So I wrote my first book back in 2017,which is virtually painless for PAs
thinking of moving to the world of VAs.
And that is a much more
much more relaxed book, should we say.
Quite a lot more gin and dogs and generalmayhem in there.
(18:56):
It's a sort of unbusinessy business book.
This one was a bit more grown up, thankgoodness.
And yeah, I just feel like I have thisconversation with clients and they kind of
immediately go, yeah, I get it.
All right, yeah, it's not just about,boring ab and stuff I don't want to do.
It's actually...
(19:16):
doing this admin is actually holding meback from, I mean, in some cases, they're
not growing a business.
They're, you know, I have a couple ofcoaches on the books, they're heading
towards retirement.
They don't want to grow a, you know, anempire or anything.
They're just happy doing great work withgreat clients.
But, you know, with me on board, it meansthat they don't have to spend a day a week
(19:39):
doing admin.
They can go to the allotment and bigstuff.
It's that simple, you know, they get to dowhat it is they want to do, whether that
is building a business or it's having alife outside of work.
So yeah, so it's been in the pipelinesince 2018, but I think I was just a bit,
I was a bit booked out of the first oneand then we hit the pandemic and it got so
(20:01):
busy.
So it just didn't happen.
And then I got myself a new VA, the lovelyHelen, and then suddenly found I had the
headspace to go, yeah, I can write a booknow.
I'm not holding everything in my own head.
So that's how it came about.
On the back of many, many clientconversations.
(20:23):
So it's basically how to be a goodcustomer if you work with Cathy and other
VAs.
Yeah.
Well, it's how to be a good customer, butI think it's also how to be, how to find
the right person.
Because it is a bit of a minefield outthere.
There are a gazillion VAs and anybody, abit like being a counselor.
can say, I'm a VA, let me into yourbusiness, let me see all your client data,
(20:52):
let me meddle in your website, all therest of it.
There's no regulation on what we do as anindustry.
And therefore, finding somebody who isreally important, knowing how to find
somebody without.
(21:16):
doing that horrific thing where you poston LinkedIn, hi, I'm looking for a VA and
a million people will respond and tag inrandoms from everywhere.
You know, you've got to be really, reallyfocused.
And hopefully the book is, takes you from,what can I outsource?
Am I ready to outsource?
Because sometimes the answer isn't a VA.
(21:38):
And that's pretty clear in the book.
Sometimes the answer is you need a PAemployed.
Sometimes you need a specialist, you know,you might need a social media specialist
and marketing specialist.
You know, VA's cover a multitude ofthings, but unless they are specialists in
their area, they perhaps only do a lightversion.
And what you're going to have a VA do byway of social media, unless they're a
(22:02):
specialist, is very different to hiring afull social media company who's going to
create you a strategy and build you a planand...
you know, their worlds apart.
So you need to work out what it is youwant somebody to do.
And then that can direct you into to whoit should be.
And then it takes you through and how do Ifind this, this unicorn for me, and just
(22:27):
gets you thinking about what kind ofpersonality do I, do I need?
Do I, and ridiculous things like, do Ineed someone who works school holidays?
Exactly.
You know, if you're, if you spend,
weeks hiring a person for them to go,yeah, by the way, I don't work any half
terms and you go, but neither do I and Ineed someone to demand the fault.
(22:50):
Yeah, you're in trouble, aren't you?
So it's thinking through what's importantto you.
What what would really annoy you if itwent wrong?
You know, starting with that and you go,OK, so I need to make sure that whoever I
work with does work school holidays, evenif that is a sort of skeleton cover and.
(23:11):
I, if I do webinars and I need support ona webinar once a month of an evening, they
have to be happy to do that because some,you know, like, like all freelance, as we
set our own boundaries and hours, and somepeople will not work an evening.
So it's making sure you've thought throughall those nuances of who you want, and
(23:33):
then a quite structured way of going outthere and sensible, sort of schematic way
to find the right person for you.
So it's kind of a how to do it from startto finish.
And the end bit is kind of what I do in mybusiness when I talk to somebody and I go
through, right, okay, what do you need?
Who would be a good fit?
(23:53):
So it's that bit.
But obviously people can entirely do itthemselves with the help of the book, I
hope.
Yeah, amazing.
There was a season where we thought wemight get somebody in Australia or New
Zealand for exactly the reason that you...
talking about because they had differentholidays and also we wondered whether
having somebody overnight, I add value.
(24:17):
In the end we decided that wasn't what weneeded but there are some businesses where
having somebody overnight is exactly whatyou want because when you pick up in the
morning it's all been done.
Exactly, exactly and we have some clientsin the States and I'm always quite
cautious and say you do realize we'rebased in the UK and we don't work those
hours.
I do have a couple of
(24:38):
US based VAs, but they were not after thatthey wanted a UK based VA.
But no, we know what we want.
We're not time sensitive.
Things don't turn around that fast.
We want somebody in the UK.
That's kind of our remit.
So it works.
(24:58):
Yeah, it's just finding what we're findingwhat's right and things might change over
time.
You know, that's as you said, you've gotseasons, seasons where there's all of a
sudden a little paper seasons where
you might have a load of clients in theStates, for example, and all of a sudden
having that evening cover is quiteimportant.
So I think the beauty of VA's is thatwe're not permanent, we're not set for
(25:20):
life.
If things change in your business, it'squite easy to make a change.
And you're not tied into an employmentcontract where you've got to give somebody
notice and go through all of that with aVA, you just kind of go, okay, this is
happening in the business.
Can you work with this or do I need tofind somebody else and take it from there?
(25:40):
You know, we are used to clients comingand going, I would say, for eons,
obviously, but others, it is just aproject or it's a six month stint or two
month stint.
So you've got that flexibility and a lotof VA's know other VA's.
So one of the best ways of finding a VA isto ask a VA because they'll know somebody.
(26:04):
So know what your criteria are.
Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
And know what your, know what your linesin the sand are and which things can go.
Like, you know, some people are reallyslightly obsessive about seeing people in
person and they're like, I really wantsomeone local.
And you know, well, the whole virtualthing, that's kind of what it means.
(26:29):
We don't really go out.
There's no, I mean, we do, but not often.
And but some people really like to meettheir VA and it's okay.
Well, if you if there's a perfect person,but they live in Edinburgh and you live in
London, is that going to stop you workingwith the perfect person?
Not because they need to do any work withyou, but just because you fancy a coffee
(26:52):
or a Christmas lunch every once in awhile.
It's not a sensible trade off.
You need the right person and you justaccept your relationship is going to be
purely virtual unless you decide to go toEdinburgh.
which is fine.
We've had some clients travel all over theplace to meet their VA's.
So what are your top tips for hiring?
(27:17):
Top tips for hiring are do your duediligence.
So as a minimum, VAs should haveprofessional indemnity insurance.
They should offer you a contract unlessyou particularly want to use one that you
have.
They should have the ability to contractwith you and they should be registered
with the ICO because they're holding data.
(27:40):
That's pretty much everybody should.
So if you've got those three things, youcan pretty much...
they don't look at you blankly when youmention them.
That's a really good sign that they'reproperly set up businesses, they're not,
you know, doing it for a bit of a laugh toraise a bit of extra funds for Christmas
or whatever.
So those things show that it's a properbusiness.
(28:01):
I would then be looking for...
either LinkedIn testimonials or clientreferences.
And when, so in the book, there is asuggested kind of application form as
such, because it isn't a job.
So you're not advertising, you know,you're not expecting people to fill in the
(28:22):
last three jobs on there, or send a CV orany of that kind of stuff.
It is a business to business service, butyou still need to get a sense of them as a
person.
So I would always put an open endedquestion in there that says,
I mean, mine, for my associates, there'ssomething like, I'd quite like to clone
myself, maybe a younger, slimmer version,but that doesn't seem to be possible.
(28:45):
Tell me about you, how you can delight myclients and what you love to do.
Just somewhere where they can say, this isme, I'm amazing, and you can check their
grammar, get there, get a sense if they'vegot a sense of humor, because that's
important to me.
It might not be for you and depending onthe task, if you want someone to do data
(29:10):
entry into an Excel spreadsheet, they canhave the personality of a peach, right?
It doesn't matter.
So you're checking for what you need inthat initial process, but absolutely vital
to have a proper professional setup and tohave a bit of background.
You don't.
(29:32):
Everyone was new once and there's notnecessarily anything wrong with having a
brand new BA, but you're going to findthem a little bit less easy to work with
than perhaps someone who's been doing itfor a year or more.
And it sources the courses, you know, ifyou, if you're happy, if you're thinking
long -term and you think, well, actually Iwant someone who's got loads of capacity
(29:53):
and I want them to grow with business,then you might say, actually, if they're a
bit new, that's kind of fine.
I can, I can work with a little bit ofwobbling.
just to get them early and get those timesin.
If you want someone who's really gonna hitthe ground running, you go, well, I
absolutely don't want anyone who's onlybeen in business for a year.
I want someone who's experienced and goingto do the job right.
(30:17):
Does that help?
Yeah, I think what I'm hearing issomething about if you're brand new to
having a VA, having a brand new VA isn'tprobably the best idea.
No, no, you need someone who's gonna holdyour hand a little bit, I would say, which
an experienced...
The AI will absolutely do.
Yeah.
They will, they will take you throughonboarding.
They will steer you through the process asmuch as you steer them.
(30:39):
So yeah, absolutely.
Fantastic.
So I know that some of our listeners arenow going, maybe I should could might.
So can you just give us, if somebodystarts with a little bit of support,
what's the kind of budget that they wouldneed to have set aside for that Cathy?
(31:01):
So it depends on who you talk to as towhat a little is.
For us, the minimum we do really thesedays is 20 hours a month.
Some of our existing clients run 10 hoursa month.
Some VA's will do five.
It just depends.
And we have some ad hoc clients who donothing for months and then come on board
(31:21):
and do 10, depending on what's going on intheir world.
So everyone works slightly differently asto how small is too small.
So again, when you're...
putting it out there, you probably want asense of how many hours you think it is.
People typically overestimate how longthings take in my experience.
Because it's how long they take us.
(31:43):
Because it's how long it takes you whenyou're trying to do your proper job and
then putting all this other stuff aroundthe edges.
So, I mean, are individually our busiestone person, if you like, our busiest one
client.
probably uses 50 hours a month as aguideline.
(32:04):
So that's not that many hours compared toa full time job.
I mean, obviously, BAs charge differentrates for, compared to employees because
you, well, you know, it's like yourfreelance, you've got to cover your
holidays, your sickness, your equipment,all of that kind of stuff.
So it's not an, it's not an, it's not aneasily comparable thing, but.
(32:27):
I would say 10 hours a month is probably areasonable amount to start with if you
think you've got that.
And when you talk to VA's and you say,well, I need this doing this doing this
doing this doing, they'll probably go,well, I reckon that's going to be X number
of hours.
And I have in the past said to people,that's about half an hour a month.
(32:47):
No, you know, it's not a volume problemthey're suffering from.
It's a headspace problem.
And actually,
that's not going to be fixed by VA in thatparticular context.
And in terms of UK, according to the mostrecent Society of Virtual Assistance
(33:10):
website, or survey rather, the average UKrate for a VA these days is 29 pounds an
hour.
Many, many will charge much more thanthat.
I mean, I charged more than that when Istarted 15 years ago.
So it's...
that's that obviously is a balance ofpeople who charge 100 pounds an hour for
(33:31):
very specialized work and people whocharge 15 pounds an hour because they're
new and they haven't got a clue whatthey're doing.
So I'd say that's on the low end.
And also a bit like everything, you getsomeone who's experienced and knows what
they're doing, they're going to do itfaster.
So you're better off paying a higher rateto get somebody better and have fewer
(33:51):
hours than to have someone who's a bit newand
you know, perhaps hasn't got thebackground, who's going to take more time,
potentially need more checks.
But that's a guide.
Yeah, absolutely.
So what you're saying is that you can youcan change your life for a few hundred
(34:12):
pounds a month?
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yes, it is entirely possible.
My longest standing client is coach.
And I think.
I average somewhere between six and 12hours a month for him every month and that
(34:33):
basically takes care of his entire backoffice, everything.
But he doesn't work.
He probably does three sessions a week,something like that, four sessions a week.
So he's not a particularly busy coach, butyou know, he has things to deal with like
purchase orders and hideous clientprocurement systems and things, all of
(34:54):
which I take care of.
So, yeah, it's entirely possible.
And once you start with somebody, you canthen see, and they can then see,
opportunities to increase and take morestuff off you in the fullness of time.
Yeah.
When your VA takes stuff off you, thatenables you to have more conversations,
(35:16):
coffees, do more work and all those otherbeautiful things.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that is what if you run a business,
that's what you should be doing.
You should be either coaching or whateverthe magic is that you do with your, you
know, whatever your skill is, you shouldbe going out and finding new clients or
doing some marketing, or you should beresting your brain so that when you come
(35:39):
to your next session, you can bring to iteverything that you've got rather than
being a slightly exhausted pigeon from,you know, having sat and done a
spreadsheet of expense receipts for anhour beforehand.
So,
Yeah, it's protecting your brilliance asmuch as it is, you know, making time for
(35:59):
it.
I think people don't realise thatenergetically there is a cost to doing
everything as much as hours in a day.
Protect your brilliance.
What a great line.
So, Cathy, your book is How to Work with aVirtual Assistant, Outsource Everything
but Your Brilliance by Cathy Salisby.
(36:21):
And Cathy, if...
Any of our listeners would like to workwith you and your team, how do they get in
touch with you?
LinkedIn is probably the best bet.
That is my main social media function, oryou can find me on the website, which is
personally virtual .co .uk.
But LinkedIn is good.
(36:41):
You can hook in with me and we can have achat.
And I'm always happy to chat with people,even if we're not the right fit.
I...
can quite often send somebody off in adirection that might get them the right
fit.
Fantastic.
Yeah.
Because we're not always the answer, youknow, we have quite a specialised niche
and that's not right for everybody, butI've got a great network and I consider it
(37:05):
my karmic duty to get people the answerthat they need, which is quite often
sending them elsewhere.
But I'm always happy to chat to people.
Fabulous.
Wherever that leads.
Fantastic.
Well, I will be introducing you.
to this person who does other things.
Excellent.
Love other things.
(37:25):
Thank you for coming to The Coaching Inn,Cathy Salisby.
thank you for having me, Claire.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
And thank you, everybody, for listening.
I bet this is food for thought on your dogwalk today.
Take care, everyone, and see you nextweek.
Bye -bye.
Bye.
If you've enjoyed what you've heard today,we'd love you to share the podcast with a
(37:46):
friend or leave a comment on social media.
And if you'd like to become a regular atThe Coaching In, you can subscribe on
Podbean and all major podcast channels.
We look forward to welcoming you nexttime.
You've been listening to The Coaching In,3D Coaching's virtual hub.
For more information, check out 3dcoaching.com.
You're at the Coaching Inn, 3D Coaching'svirtual pub where we enjoy conversations
with people who engage in the world ofcoaching.
Hello and welcome to this week's editionof The Coaching In.
I'm Claire Pedrick and today my guest sentme an email when I sent her the joining
(00:23):
notes and said, please wear a headset.
And she went, it's so amazing to be sentthose because normally I send them out to
other coaches because today's guest is avirtual assistant, the angel of coaching,
Kathy Salisby.
Welcome to The Coaching In.
Hi Claire.
Thank you so much for inviting me.
(00:43):
That was so funny.
Yeah.
I can't tell you how many times I havesent that email going, please don't be in
a cafe with, you know, coffee grindersgoing off and dodgy Wi Fi in the
background when you join a podcast.
And then I, I literally made myself put myheadset on my desk last night.
(01:05):
So the shame of being that guest.
It's all right.
You're not that guest.
I can tell everybody she's wearing aheadset.
I am.
So Cathy, you've written a book about howto work with a VA and what an amazing
thing that is.
How, why, if, because, but before we talkabout VA's, tell us a bit about you.
(01:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I had a very varied career, pre -VA-dom.
I was a restaurant manager for many years.
and worked in pubs after graduating.
I then was desperate for what I thought ofas a proper job behind a desk, mainly
because I have quite a bad hip.
(01:53):
So running up and down restaurant stairsis not good for me.
So I took a job as a customer relationsexecutive and nobody threw garlic bread at
my head, which was vast improvement onrestaurant life as far as I was concerned.
And then,
I fell into being a PA and I really didfall.
(02:13):
I have no PA skills whatsoever.
I can't touch type.
I definitely can't audio type.
And I just, I didn't really fancy thetitle secretary, but when I fell into
being a PA, it was like I came homebecause actually what you get to do as a
PA is organize people.
And I love organizing people and you getto help them do what it is that they do.
(02:38):
and support them to do that and make theirlives easier.
And that, I just love that.
That's what makes me happy every day.
So, yeah, I fell into being a PA.
And after many years of PA -ing formanagement consultancies, coaches, and
kind of individual folk, I decided to setup on my own as a VA in 2014.
(03:03):
And I've been going ever since.
And there's now me and I have a team of30.
associates who work with me and we supportall sorts of people.
We have a lot of coaches on the books,still a lot of consultants and a few left
field folk who do all sorts of things.
But it's great fun and I get to see what Ilove every single day.
(03:27):
I think I might have a new customer foryou.
always nice.
Who falls into the and other folk.
Yes.
Yes.
It's funny, isn't it?
When you say something and it triggers aconnection.
Yeah.
If you'd said to me, do you know anybodywho?
I probably wouldn't have made thatconnection at all.
(03:50):
But you just described somebody I wastalking to last week.
Other folk.
Other folk who do kind of things.
Do stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
People who do things.
That's it.
People who do things.
People who have a busy life.
I'm really interested that you've comeinto this organizing people thing from
customer service rather than from detailadmin.
(04:15):
As you said, touch typing.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Those skills are wildly helpful, perhapsless so these days than in times gone by.
But actually, with the improvedtechnology, there's much less need to do
things like audio typing or, you know, mycobbled together typing is absolutely
(04:37):
fine.
Because to be honest, I'm not, you know,somebody's not dictating a letter to me
these days.
They're, you know, leaving a voice memogoing, Kathy, can you reply to so and so?
Tell them yes, but not yet.
And can you reply to this person for myemails and say,
Thanks, we've already got a charity of theyear, try again next year, you know, and
(04:58):
they, I get to use my brain, I'm not justa funnel for somebody else.
That's the joy of having a really good EAwho understands you.
And to be honest, one of my bosses who Iworked with for the longest period of time
was over 10 years, I could write an emailat her and within several weeks, neither
(05:20):
she or I could tell which one of us hadwritten it.
because I just, I was her brain.
You know, I knew what her response wouldbe and I knew her tone and I could write
that email and no one could really tellthe difference.
So, you know, when it's a long way downthe line, that level of understanding
somebody else's ways of working, but it'sentirely possible.
(05:42):
And it's so easy to get bogged down intothe, I have to do everything mode.
And there are quicker ways of doingthings, even if you do have to do some of
it, perhaps don't have to do every lastbit of it when you've got somebody good
supporting you.
Yeah, Rebi and our comms team can write asme and I never know if I wrote it or not.
Brilliant, isn't it?
(06:03):
Absolutely brilliant.
I love it.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's interesting because in my journey,I had a VA for a long time, years and
years and years, and a team like yours.
Yeah.
And it was absolutely fabulous.
And then one day I realized that thebusiness had got to the size where I
actually needed somebody all the time.
Yeah.
(06:23):
And now we need somebody all the time.
And there was a season when papermattered, when I needed them to be able to
touch the paper.
And of course now that doesn't matter.
Yeah.
Because pretty much everything is virtual.
But why do people choose a VA, Cathy?
I think the beauty of most VAs in howthey're set up is that we support multiple
(06:47):
clients.
So your commitment is less.
We're a freelance, you invoice us businessto business with an agreed number of
hours.
So not that many people, you're at thatpoint where you need a whole PA now.
And we always think that's an amazingsuccess.
If we have to stop working with someonebecause they're ready to employ a full
-timer, that to us is like the best endingof a working relationship.
(07:12):
But most businesses don't need a whole PA.
They need an hour a day or 20 hours amonth or whatever.
And the flexibility of the VAs, you canabsolutely have that.
So you get support, but you don't have tocommit to either employing them and all
(07:32):
that entails with national insurance,holiday pay, sickness pay, all that kind
of stuff.
But you get someone who's going to workalongside you in your business.
you know, with usually with your emailaddress.
And it's yeah, you just the payoff is youdon't have them all the time.
So like you said, you needed somebody justthere when you needed them.
(07:52):
You don't have that so much with a VAbecause they're juggling multiple clients,
you only get them, you know, a couple oftimes a day or, you know, when they check
in, which some people it doesn't gel withat all.
But most businesses these days.
As long as there isn't the volume of workthere, don't need somebody, you know, old
(08:15):
school sitting outside their desk, readyto stick their head around the corner and
go, can you get me a coffee?
Or, yes, can you come in and dictate thisletter?
Times have moved on, even employed EAsnow, you know, a lot of them work
remotely, or, you know, and come into theoffice a couple of days a week.
So, yeah, it's, it's changing times, andit's much more flexible, but it's more of
(08:37):
a business.
Although we do actually have some quitebig businesses on our books as well.
We used a VA for many years to answer thephone and now nobody rings us up.
But in those days it was really funnybecause I used to work, I didn't work in
school holidays, I didn't work after Ipicked up the kids from school at half
(08:58):
past three and the VA would pick up thephone.
And I can remember one day they were quitesmall and I was watching Blue Peter with
the kids and somebody rang up.
And the VA was so good that she went 3Dcoaching, Kathy speaking, how can I help
you?
And they said, can we talk to Claire?
And Kathy said, I'm sorry, Claire's not inthe office at the moment.
And this person went, I know she's there.
(09:23):
because they knew that I was in.
Yeah.
Of course, Kathy's going, she's notworking because she, yeah, I was watching
blue Peter.
Kathy wasn't going to put a good story tome because blue Peter was much more
important.
Yeah.
but, but what that taught me was that wewere so seamless that the people who were
ringing in actually knew that they weretalking to the company, to us and not to a
(09:45):
random person outside, which wasbeautiful.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Because you're one of the team.
You are.
Absolutely.
Even if that team is only two people,you're still part of the team.
And I absolutely love that.
I love that feeling of being part of ateam, whether that's you and your client
or you and, you know, one of our clientsgot something like 200 staff.
(10:09):
So there's, there's teams and teams andteams.
And we're part of most of them.
Yeah.
wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
That's amazing.
So I have a question, which is in multipleparts.
So one of our listeners is going to say tome,
Claire, that was a double question.
When do people hire a VA?
And when should they?
(10:30):
When do they is usually a fraction toolate, in my experience.
They tend to look for a VA at the pointwhen it's all gone a bit pear -shaped and
they're drowning.
They perhaps have lost all semblance of awork -life balance and, you know, evenings
(10:51):
are...
spent frantically catching up on emailsand they should have done it sooner.
The challenge with doing it, so I'm goingto answer in several parts, the challenge
with doing it too late is not only thatyou're already exhausted because you're
working too hard, you also don't have thetime to commit to that new relationship,
(11:13):
which is really important.
If you're running 110 miles an hour, youhaven't got the bandwidth to then give
somebody new.
the time to train them up to explain howthings work.
You're just at the, my God, I just need tothrow tasks at this person and hope for
the best, which isn't ideal.
I mean, you know, it happens, but it's notthe best way.
(11:34):
Ideally, you need to bring a BA in beforeyou reach that tipping point.
So as soon as you can afford it, to behonest, and you might bring somebody in
doing less and then with a plan to ramp upin the future that.
is absolutely fine.
And that's how a lot of people work.
And once they get used to delegatingthings to a VA, they then discover that
(11:58):
there are more things that they candelegate or the VA will go, why are you
doing that?
We could do that quicker.
Or I'm sure I could do some of that.
You know, they find things they can takeoff you, you know, after looking even
horror and going, please tell me you don'tsit down and do that every week.
No.
So yeah, that that would be before you gettoo busy, which would be the ideal answer.
(12:20):
Yeah, it's funny because my dad diedrecently and he thought he might need
care.
So he bought in care for half an hourevery day.
But in the end, he never did.
These lovely ladies would come every dayand they emptied the dishwasher, they hung
(12:41):
out the washing, but he needed somebodythere because on the day that he needed
somebody to help him have a shower.
It was too late to find somebody to helpyou have a shower.
Yeah.
And that's what you're describing, isn'tit?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Getting somebody in who can, who canunderstand how things work, what you're
like, who your clients are, how it allfalls together before they're suddenly
(13:05):
having to do a gazillion things withoutthat background knowledge.
Absolutely.
And it may be that they do empty thedishwasher for a bit, but that's good.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It may be that they do a bit of gruntwork.
to start with as they start to see.
But I mean, I do describe the book as abit of a process you can go through to
(13:28):
work out what tasks you do every day andwhich tasks you should not be doing every
day.
And as long as you've got a reasonablechunk of those, you can be sure that
you've got something for them to do, evenif that's perhaps not getting right in
there, you know, dealing with clientqueries on day one.
It's a bit like a jam alarm, you know,once you've got to trust them and got to
(13:50):
know them.
In the old days, I had a I had an in trayfor my fantasy admin person.
Amazing.
And all the time I was working, I wouldput the things that they need to do in the
in tray.
And you could do that, couldn't you, in afolder in your emails?
(14:13):
I put everything in there and then one daythe basket was big enough that I realized
that I was spending at least three or fourhours a week doing that their work.
But then it makes it really easy todelegate because you know what their work
is because you've separated it off fromyours.
I love that.
That's such a good way of doing it in thistechnical world of just going, I shouldn't
(14:33):
be dealing with that.
Somebody else can do that and juststicking it in a folder and then examining
it.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
We do that with all our new roles,actually.
Yeah, great idea.
Just a real visual of what's there andwhat's outside of what you can be doing.
(14:53):
Because I think that one of the thingsthat I notice is that the things that are
most annoying to you are when we won't letgo or can't let go or don't let go.
Yes.
Yes.
that was a yes, yes, yes.
yes, yes.
Yeah.
Micro management.
It's a...
It's not good.
It's not good when you...
(15:14):
And I did speak to somebody yesterday whomade me laugh a lot.
So I'm definitely sensing you're not amicro -manager.
Well, I am if they're shit.
Well, you know, we're going to aim fornotch shit, if that's okay, you know, but
I get it.
I think there is a tendency when you'renervous to over -engineer and over, you
(15:35):
know, oversee things in too much detail.
But once that initial getting to know youperiod is over, you have to be a bit hands
off.
Otherwise you're not saving any time.
You know, if you're double checkingeverything, how is that freeing you up to
do other more important things?
It's not.
So yeah, micromanage it if you can.
(15:57):
There are ways of, you know, we have someclients, micromanage is a strong term, but
they're certainly very detailed focusedand they like to be in the loop on
everything.
And most VA's will be able to adjust theirways of working to fit that.
Some will find it easier than others.
It would drive me mad, but I have hadclients where I do it and you just get
(16:18):
into a rhythm of it.
And you adapt yourself to work with thatperson and their preferences.
That's part of being a really good EA andVA.
Some people are easier to adapt to thanothers.
Depending on what your working style is,I'm not naturally...
detailed person I'm much more of a give itto me I'll sort it I'll shout if there's a
(16:39):
problem kind of person so I know I workbetter with those kind of people.
Just different personalities isn't it.
Yeah.
And actually, the detail people are notthe people who need the VA first.
Possibly.
Well, maybe they are, maybe they aren't.
(17:01):
You know, some people can get themselvesso bogged down in the detail that they're
actually working more than they perhaps,you know, they perhaps need somebody to
help them prize themselves out of thedetail.
But yeah.
Yeah.
So what's your hope for your book, Cathy?
How to work with a virtual assistant,outsource everything but your brilliance,
(17:24):
great title.
Thank you.
And it's got a little bit of weird karmato it actually.
Somebody many, many years ago when I firstset up the business kind of gifted me the
outsource everything but your brillianceline.
And it was coach actually.
And we were having a coffee in a reallyunimpressive poster in a garden center,
(17:48):
just a one -to -one.
And it just came out and she kind of went,you can have that.
I was like, thanks.
And it's kind of stuck with me.
I've used it as my tagline because it justso effortlessly describes how outsourcing
works.
You know, there are things that only youcan do.
That is what you are, hopefully, paid todo.
(18:10):
And all the other stuff is not only youshouldn't be doing it, but quite often
it's...
actually dragging you down, it's using upyour headspace, and it's stopping you
growing as a business, but as a person aswell, potentially.
And I have this conversation so frequentlywith prospects and with clients, I should
(18:31):
write this down.
So I wrote my first book back in 2017,which is virtually painless for PAs
thinking of moving to the world of VAs.
And that is a much more
much more relaxed book, should we say.
Quite a lot more gin and dogs and generalmayhem in there.
(18:56):
It's a sort of unbusinessy business book.
This one was a bit more grown up, thankgoodness.
And yeah, I just feel like I have thisconversation with clients and they kind of
immediately go, yeah, I get it.
All right, yeah, it's not just about,boring ab and stuff I don't want to do.
It's actually...
(19:16):
doing this admin is actually holding meback from, I mean, in some cases, they're
not growing a business.
They're, you know, I have a couple ofcoaches on the books, they're heading
towards retirement.
They don't want to grow a, you know, anempire or anything.
They're just happy doing great work withgreat clients.
But, you know, with me on board, it meansthat they don't have to spend a day a week
(19:39):
doing admin.
They can go to the allotment and bigstuff.
It's that simple, you know, they get to dowhat it is they want to do, whether that
is building a business or it's having alife outside of work.
So yeah, so it's been in the pipelinesince 2018, but I think I was just a bit,
I was a bit booked out of the first oneand then we hit the pandemic and it got so
(20:01):
busy.
So it just didn't happen.
And then I got myself a new VA, the lovelyHelen, and then suddenly found I had the
headspace to go, yeah, I can write a booknow.
I'm not holding everything in my own head.
So that's how it came about.
On the back of many, many clientconversations.
(20:23):
So it's basically how to be a goodcustomer if you work with Cathy and other
VAs.
Yeah.
Well, it's how to be a good customer, butI think it's also how to be, how to find
the right person.
Because it is a bit of a minefield outthere.
There are a gazillion VAs and anybody, abit like being a counselor.
can say, I'm a VA, let me into yourbusiness, let me see all your client data,
(20:52):
let me meddle in your website, all therest of it.
There's no regulation on what we do as anindustry.
And therefore, finding somebody who isreally important, knowing how to find
somebody without.
(21:16):
doing that horrific thing where you poston LinkedIn, hi, I'm looking for a VA and
a million people will respond and tag inrandoms from everywhere.
You know, you've got to be really, reallyfocused.
And hopefully the book is, takes you from,what can I outsource?
Am I ready to outsource?
Because sometimes the answer isn't a VA.
(21:38):
And that's pretty clear in the book.
Sometimes the answer is you need a PAemployed.
Sometimes you need a specialist, you know,you might need a social media specialist
and marketing specialist.
You know, VA's cover a multitude ofthings, but unless they are specialists in
their area, they perhaps only do a lightversion.
And what you're going to have a VA do byway of social media, unless they're a
(22:02):
specialist, is very different to hiring afull social media company who's going to
create you a strategy and build you a planand...
you know, their worlds apart.
So you need to work out what it is youwant somebody to do.
And then that can direct you into to whoit should be.
And then it takes you through and how do Ifind this, this unicorn for me, and just
(22:27):
gets you thinking about what kind ofpersonality do I, do I need?
Do I, and ridiculous things like, do Ineed someone who works school holidays?
Exactly.
You know, if you're, if you spend,
weeks hiring a person for them to go,yeah, by the way, I don't work any half
terms and you go, but neither do I and Ineed someone to demand the fault.
(22:50):
Yeah, you're in trouble, aren't you?
So it's thinking through what's importantto you.
What what would really annoy you if itwent wrong?
You know, starting with that and you go,OK, so I need to make sure that whoever I
work with does work school holidays, evenif that is a sort of skeleton cover and.
(23:11):
I, if I do webinars and I need support ona webinar once a month of an evening, they
have to be happy to do that because some,you know, like, like all freelance, as we
set our own boundaries and hours, and somepeople will not work an evening.
So it's making sure you've thought throughall those nuances of who you want, and
(23:33):
then a quite structured way of going outthere and sensible, sort of schematic way
to find the right person for you.
So it's kind of a how to do it from startto finish.
And the end bit is kind of what I do in mybusiness when I talk to somebody and I go
through, right, okay, what do you need?
Who would be a good fit?
(23:53):
So it's that bit.
But obviously people can entirely do itthemselves with the help of the book, I
hope.
Yeah, amazing.
There was a season where we thought wemight get somebody in Australia or New
Zealand for exactly the reason that you...
talking about because they had differentholidays and also we wondered whether
having somebody overnight, I add value.
(24:17):
In the end we decided that wasn't what weneeded but there are some businesses where
having somebody overnight is exactly whatyou want because when you pick up in the
morning it's all been done.
Exactly, exactly and we have some clientsin the States and I'm always quite
cautious and say you do realize we'rebased in the UK and we don't work those
hours.
I do have a couple of
(24:38):
US based VAs, but they were not after thatthey wanted a UK based VA.
But no, we know what we want.
We're not time sensitive.
Things don't turn around that fast.
We want somebody in the UK.
That's kind of our remit.
So it works.
(24:58):
Yeah, it's just finding what we're findingwhat's right and things might change over
time.
You know, that's as you said, you've gotseasons, seasons where there's all of a
sudden a little paper seasons where
you might have a load of clients in theStates, for example, and all of a sudden
having that evening cover is quiteimportant.
So I think the beauty of VA's is thatwe're not permanent, we're not set for
(25:20):
life.
If things change in your business, it'squite easy to make a change.
And you're not tied into an employmentcontract where you've got to give somebody
notice and go through all of that with aVA, you just kind of go, okay, this is
happening in the business.
Can you work with this or do I need tofind somebody else and take it from there?
(25:40):
You know, we are used to clients comingand going, I would say, for eons,
obviously, but others, it is just aproject or it's a six month stint or two
month stint.
So you've got that flexibility and a lotof VA's know other VA's.
So one of the best ways of finding a VA isto ask a VA because they'll know somebody.
(26:04):
So know what your criteria are.
Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
And know what your, know what your linesin the sand are and which things can go.
Like, you know, some people are reallyslightly obsessive about seeing people in
person and they're like, I really wantsomeone local.
And you know, well, the whole virtualthing, that's kind of what it means.
(26:29):
We don't really go out.
There's no, I mean, we do, but not often.
And but some people really like to meettheir VA and it's okay.
Well, if you if there's a perfect person,but they live in Edinburgh and you live in
London, is that going to stop you workingwith the perfect person?
Not because they need to do any work withyou, but just because you fancy a coffee
(26:52):
or a Christmas lunch every once in awhile.
It's not a sensible trade off.
You need the right person and you justaccept your relationship is going to be
purely virtual unless you decide to go toEdinburgh.
which is fine.
We've had some clients travel all over theplace to meet their VA's.
So what are your top tips for hiring?
(27:17):
Top tips for hiring are do your duediligence.
So as a minimum, VAs should haveprofessional indemnity insurance.
They should offer you a contract unlessyou particularly want to use one that you
have.
They should have the ability to contractwith you and they should be registered
with the ICO because they're holding data.
(27:40):
That's pretty much everybody should.
So if you've got those three things, youcan pretty much...
they don't look at you blankly when youmention them.
That's a really good sign that they'reproperly set up businesses, they're not,
you know, doing it for a bit of a laugh toraise a bit of extra funds for Christmas
or whatever.
So those things show that it's a properbusiness.
(28:01):
I would then be looking for...
either LinkedIn testimonials or clientreferences.
And when, so in the book, there is asuggested kind of application form as
such, because it isn't a job.
So you're not advertising, you know,you're not expecting people to fill in the
(28:22):
last three jobs on there, or send a CV orany of that kind of stuff.
It is a business to business service, butyou still need to get a sense of them as a
person.
So I would always put an open endedquestion in there that says,
I mean, mine, for my associates, there'ssomething like, I'd quite like to clone
myself, maybe a younger, slimmer version,but that doesn't seem to be possible.
(28:45):
Tell me about you, how you can delight myclients and what you love to do.
Just somewhere where they can say, this isme, I'm amazing, and you can check their
grammar, get there, get a sense if they'vegot a sense of humor, because that's
important to me.
It might not be for you and depending onthe task, if you want someone to do data
(29:10):
entry into an Excel spreadsheet, they canhave the personality of a peach, right?
It doesn't matter.
So you're checking for what you need inthat initial process, but absolutely vital
to have a proper professional setup and tohave a bit of background.
You don't.
(29:32):
Everyone was new once and there's notnecessarily anything wrong with having a
brand new BA, but you're going to findthem a little bit less easy to work with
than perhaps someone who's been doing itfor a year or more.
And it sources the courses, you know, ifyou, if you're happy, if you're thinking
long -term and you think, well, actually Iwant someone who's got loads of capacity
(29:53):
and I want them to grow with business,then you might say, actually, if they're a
bit new, that's kind of fine.
I can, I can work with a little bit ofwobbling.
just to get them early and get those timesin.
If you want someone who's really gonna hitthe ground running, you go, well, I
absolutely don't want anyone who's onlybeen in business for a year.
I want someone who's experienced and goingto do the job right.
(30:17):
Does that help?
Yeah, I think what I'm hearing issomething about if you're brand new to
having a VA, having a brand new VA isn'tprobably the best idea.
No, no, you need someone who's gonna holdyour hand a little bit, I would say, which
an experienced...
The AI will absolutely do.
Yeah.
They will, they will take you throughonboarding.
They will steer you through the process asmuch as you steer them.
(30:39):
So yeah, absolutely.
Fantastic.
So I know that some of our listeners arenow going, maybe I should could might.
So can you just give us, if somebodystarts with a little bit of support,
what's the kind of budget that they wouldneed to have set aside for that Cathy?
(31:01):
So it depends on who you talk to as towhat a little is.
For us, the minimum we do really thesedays is 20 hours a month.
Some of our existing clients run 10 hoursa month.
Some VA's will do five.
It just depends.
And we have some ad hoc clients who donothing for months and then come on board
(31:21):
and do 10, depending on what's going on intheir world.
So everyone works slightly differently asto how small is too small.
So again, when you're...
putting it out there, you probably want asense of how many hours you think it is.
People typically overestimate how longthings take in my experience.
Because it's how long they take us.
(31:43):
Because it's how long it takes you whenyou're trying to do your proper job and
then putting all this other stuff aroundthe edges.
So, I mean, are individually our busiestone person, if you like, our busiest one
client.
probably uses 50 hours a month as aguideline.
(32:04):
So that's not that many hours compared toa full time job.
I mean, obviously, BAs charge differentrates for, compared to employees because
you, well, you know, it's like yourfreelance, you've got to cover your
holidays, your sickness, your equipment,all of that kind of stuff.
So it's not an, it's not an, it's not aneasily comparable thing, but.
(32:27):
I would say 10 hours a month is probably areasonable amount to start with if you
think you've got that.
And when you talk to VA's and you say,well, I need this doing this doing this
doing this doing, they'll probably go,well, I reckon that's going to be X number
of hours.
And I have in the past said to people,that's about half an hour a month.
(32:47):
No, you know, it's not a volume problemthey're suffering from.
It's a headspace problem.
And actually,
that's not going to be fixed by VA in thatparticular context.
And in terms of UK, according to the mostrecent Society of Virtual Assistance
(33:10):
website, or survey rather, the average UKrate for a VA these days is 29 pounds an
hour.
Many, many will charge much more thanthat.
I mean, I charged more than that when Istarted 15 years ago.
So it's...
that's that obviously is a balance ofpeople who charge 100 pounds an hour for
(33:31):
very specialized work and people whocharge 15 pounds an hour because they're
new and they haven't got a clue whatthey're doing.
So I'd say that's on the low end.
And also a bit like everything, you getsomeone who's experienced and knows what
they're doing, they're going to do itfaster.
So you're better off paying a higher rateto get somebody better and have fewer
(33:51):
hours than to have someone who's a bit newand
you know, perhaps hasn't got thebackground, who's going to take more time,
potentially need more checks.
But that's a guide.
Yeah, absolutely.
So what you're saying is that you can youcan change your life for a few hundred
(34:12):
pounds a month?
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yes, it is entirely possible.
My longest standing client is coach.
And I think.
I average somewhere between six and 12hours a month for him every month and that
(34:33):
basically takes care of his entire backoffice, everything.
But he doesn't work.
He probably does three sessions a week,something like that, four sessions a week.
So he's not a particularly busy coach, butyou know, he has things to deal with like
purchase orders and hideous clientprocurement systems and things, all of
(34:54):
which I take care of.
So, yeah, it's entirely possible.
And once you start with somebody, you canthen see, and they can then see,
opportunities to increase and take morestuff off you in the fullness of time.
Yeah.
When your VA takes stuff off you, thatenables you to have more conversations,
(35:16):
coffees, do more work and all those otherbeautiful things.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that is what if you run a business,
that's what you should be doing.
You should be either coaching or whateverthe magic is that you do with your, you
know, whatever your skill is, you shouldbe going out and finding new clients or
doing some marketing, or you should beresting your brain so that when you come
(35:39):
to your next session, you can bring to iteverything that you've got rather than
being a slightly exhausted pigeon from,you know, having sat and done a
spreadsheet of expense receipts for anhour beforehand.
So,
Yeah, it's protecting your brilliance asmuch as it is, you know, making time for
(35:59):
it.
I think people don't realise thatenergetically there is a cost to doing
everything as much as hours in a day.
Protect your brilliance.
What a great line.
So, Cathy, your book is How to Work with aVirtual Assistant, Outsource Everything
but Your Brilliance by Cathy Salisby.
(36:21):
And Cathy, if...
Any of our listeners would like to workwith you and your team, how do they get in
touch with you?
LinkedIn is probably the best bet.
That is my main social media function, oryou can find me on the website, which is
personally virtual .co .uk.
But LinkedIn is good.
(36:41):
You can hook in with me and we can have achat.
And I'm always happy to chat with people,even if we're not the right fit.
I...
can quite often send somebody off in adirection that might get them the right
fit.
Fantastic.
Yeah.
Because we're not always the answer, youknow, we have quite a specialised niche
and that's not right for everybody, butI've got a great network and I consider it
(37:05):
my karmic duty to get people the answerthat they need, which is quite often
sending them elsewhere.
But I'm always happy to chat to people.
Fabulous.
Wherever that leads.
Fantastic.
Well, I will be introducing you.
to this person who does other things.
Excellent.
Love other things.
(37:25):
Thank you for coming to The Coaching Inn,Cathy Salisby.
thank you for having me, Claire.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
And thank you, everybody, for listening.
I bet this is food for thought on your dogwalk today.
Take care, everyone, and see you nextweek.
Bye -bye.
Bye.
If you've enjoyed what you've heard today,we'd love you to share the podcast with a
(37:46):
friend or leave a comment on social media.
And if you'd like to become a regular atThe Coaching In, you can subscribe on
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We look forward to welcoming you nexttime.
You've been listening to The Coaching In,3D Coaching's virtual hub.
For more information, check out 3dcoaching.com.
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