August 13, 2025 • 33 mins
Join host Claire Pedrick in this episode of The Coaching Inn as she welcomes Julie Smith, author of "Coach Yourself Confident." Dive into Julie's coaching journey, starting from her early days at PepsiCo to becoming an award winning author and coach. Discover the inspiration behind her book and the importance of self-belief in personal and professional growth. Julie shares her experiences with Gestalt coaching and the challenges of writing, offering valuable insights into building confidence and leadership skills.
Listen to the full episode and explore how you can unlock your confidence and leadership potential. If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform.
Get the book here - until September 2025 the kindle edition is 99p/ 99c
Contact:
- Contact Julie through Linked In or visit talentsprout.co.uk to learn more about her work.
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Coming Up:
- Open Table - Who we were and who we are becoming
Keywords:
Coaching, Confidence, Leadership, Self-belief, Personal growth, Julie Smith, Claire Pedrick, The Coaching Inn, Book writing, Coach Yourself Confident, Gestalt coaching, Imposter syndrome, Self-improvement, Professional development, Leadership skills, Coaching techniques, Confidence building, Personal development, Coaching journey, Leadership book
We love having a variety of guests join us! Please remember that inviting someone to participate does not mean we necessarily endorse their views or opinions. We believe in open conversation and sharing different perspectives.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:14):
Hello everyone and welcome to this week's edition of The Coaching Inn.
I'm your host, Claire Pedrick.
ah If you love this episode, do like it and make a comment on the platform where youlisten to your podcasts or on YouTube.
That would be absolutely fabulous and we'd love that very much.
Today's guest, I've just realized as we begin to talk that we've never actually metbecause it feels like we've known each other for a long time.
(00:42):
Julie Smith, welcome to The Coaching Inn.
Thank you very much.
Really good to be here.
Yeah, so you've written an amazing book, which I read in Spain, Coach Yourself Confident.
And you've got another one bubbling away, I hear.
I have indeed, yeah, I'm 12,000 words into the shitty first draft of the next one.
(01:07):
So I'm enjoying this phase where those first words come easily.
I know it's going to get harder, but that's okay.
I can enjoy this bit for now.
Yeah, that's what I was doing in Spain and then it all went in the bin because I realisedit was the wrong book again.
Wouldn't you think I'd have learnt that by now?
okay.
god, I hope that doesn't happen to me.
I'm pretty firm.
(01:29):
I like this one.
Good, excellent.
So tell us about your coaching journey first.
Yes, yeah, gosh, it goes back a bit now.
So I did my initial coaching qualification, must've been 2006, while I was still atPepsiCo.
(01:49):
So I was really fortunate to be able to do it while I was still there.
And the business gave me the kind of time out over the 12 or 18 months, whatever it was,and funded it, which was brilliant.
And then I was able to use it straight away with some coaching assignments with seniorleaders internally.
So that was, yeah, it was fantastic.
(02:09):
And I still remember so much about the coaching training, even though it's 20 years agonow, it was quite a life shifting experience.
You have to really get to know yourself, don't you?
In kind of coach training.
I think that was perhaps unexpected for most of us on the program.
(02:30):
at Peter Blockett, so it was a Gestalt sort of focus, Gestalt inspired program.
it was, yeah, I still remember the experiential groups, which was very Gestalt where weall sat in a circle and there was just no structure whatsoever.
And we just sat and waited and saw what happened.
And in the first time that happened, we just all sat so uncomfortably.
(02:54):
It was almost unbearable.
And by the end of the program,
There was still a level of discomfort, but it was, yeah, it had really shifted.
That's a great way of learning presence and courage, isn't it?
Yes, it really is.
And noticing what goes on for you in the silences and in the in-between bit.
(03:16):
I think it's so useful for coaching that actually a lot of what we do, I it's justoccurring to me now, a lot of what we do is sitting with discomfort, whether it's our own,
whether it's the clients, whether it's sort of in the room between us.
How do we sit with that?
How do we not rush in with words?
All of those good things that I think...
(03:38):
none of us realised Pete was helping us to learn, but he really was and very consciouslywas.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that kind of stuff is in very few coach training programmes, isn't it?
Yes, I think a lot of it is about the doing.
Yeah, and what we miss is all of the rest of it that's in your brilliant book, The HumanBehind the Coat, just all of that doesn't necessarily get paid enough attention to, I
(04:07):
don't think.
And it was certainly there in Spades in Pete's program, definitely.
Excellent.
So, so Julie, my long-time friend who I've never met, where in the world are you?
I am in Leicestershire, so I'm in a village just north of Leicester in their lovelycountryside.
(04:31):
So coach yourself confident won a prize.
It did, yeah.
I won a prize with a very long name, so I might get them sort of in the wrong order, butit was Get Abstract, International Book Award, Business Impact, Reader's Choice.
it was shortlisted by the editorial team at Get Abstract.
(04:55):
So they create summaries for a whole range of books over a year and they pick theirfavorites for the shortlist.
And then there was a vote.
I was...
particularly delighted to have won via the vote.
Wow, that's amazing.
So what made you decide to write a book about confidence?
(05:16):
Yeah, I think the, definitely goes back to the, to my coaching and what comes up in thecoaching room.
And I think there was, um guess, the sort of idea that I see so many brilliant people whodon't quite own their brilliance, don't quite know how brilliant they are.
And that a uh lack of confidence just comes up in so many coaching conversations.
(05:43):
sometimes as the sort of headline, know, the reason for coming or the topic that somebodybrings, but so often as a thread that sits beneath, you you sort of start with, I've just
made a transition into a new role and it's a more strategic role and you know, what willthat mean?
And you start exploring that with somebody and can quite quickly get to, there's somethingabout the way I see myself or I don't.
(06:09):
I don't think I'm a strategic person or I'm not particularly good at this or somethingthat is more about their self-image and their confidence.
So I think that was, I guess, the sort of seeing a need.
And I just got enthusiastic about the idea of what if I could package some of the benefitsof coaching, which by nature is quite exclusive between the covers of a book.
(06:39):
what might that look like.
So that was the idea and then the title, Coaching Self-Confident and the sort of practicaltools that I've tried to put in there to sort of support a lot, support reflection and
then some kind of, okay, what do I, what might I experiment with?
What might I do?
So that was the idea.
Nice.
(07:00):
My husband grabbed it off me.
Yeah, he's reading it now.
Yeah, he's working through it slowly.
Yeah.
I'd love to know what he makes of it.
Yeah, and you know, it is accessible to people who wouldn't necessarily choose to get acoach or would go actually, it's all right.
It's not great, but it's not, you know, that's okay.
(07:24):
And suddenly you, you can invest in yourself.
Yes, yeah.
You're the second, at least the second person who said to me they read it and then theirhusband has read it or is reading it.
And I find that particularly gratifying because you and I know that more women than menbuy this kind of book.
(07:44):
And I also have a bit of a thing that lack of confidence is sort of attached in society towomen.
It's, you know, often if you talk about imposter syndrome, if people talk about that, itis usually associated with
women and I made a very conscious decision to write the book for any and all genders,because I just, I don't think it works like that.
(08:05):
It's not the case that, you know, only women lack confidence.
And actually for some of the men that I've supported over the years and coached over theyears, they, you know, they lack confidence.
And then there's a sort of extra layer of beating themselves up because somehow they feelthey shouldn't, um because it's, yeah, it's not a male thing.
So,
(08:25):
Excellent, I'm particularly pleased that your husband has picked her.
it's a generational thing as well.
I wonder whether younger men, it's just a wonder, might be more able to say that they lackconfidence than older men, partly because of the empowering of women.
(08:51):
Yes, I wonder, mean, my instinct says there's probably something in that hypothesis andwouldn't it be fascinating to find out?
I think there's so much to research potentially in kind of gender and societal norms andhow are things shifting and how does that change the way that we see ourselves?
(09:16):
Yeah, really interesting stuff.
feel we should have a little blog for potential research topics that come out of thecoaching in.
I'm sure there are many.
I'm sure there are many.
This week, I've recorded a few episodes and I think there's one come out of everyconversation where we're hoping that one of you lovely listeners will go, yeah, I'd like
(09:37):
to research that.
Yes, because they can't just all be added to Claire's list, they?
I mean, you'd be quite busy if you tried to do that.
enough, thank you.
Yeah, so what's your next book on, Julie?
So it's a leadership book, but in the same sort of territory.
So I think I'm allowed to say the title.
(09:58):
I'll say it anyway.
So it's Contagious Confidence, a Leader's Guide to Building Belief and Power inPerformance.
So I guess the sort of premise is that I think there's a connection between confidence andperformance at an individual level and at a collective level.
So it's sort of exploring as a leader, how do you support someone to find their...
(10:19):
self-belief, how do you support the team to believe in each other and sort of build thecollective confidence that we have what we need to deliver and how do you build the
confidence in the shared mission and what we're here to do.
um So that's the, I'm slightly panicking now, Clare, that I'll have a moment like you did,which is, you know, get so far in and then think, no, this isn't the book.
(10:41):
Yeah, but you have probably have a plan which I never have.
interesting.
So how do you, what's your process?
You start?
Yeah.
I haven't written the proposal for the book that I'm writing at the moment.
So the publisher has said yes.
But I don't write the proposal until I know what the book is and what its voice is.
(11:03):
And it takes quite a lot of writing.
It was so funny in Spain reading your book and writing at the same time because I alwayslose confidence.
Yes.
lose confidence.
uh I always think I've got nothing to say.
I've always think I'm writing the wrong book.
And I now I know that's normal.
(11:24):
It's a really much easier process to go through because you go, yeah, okay, this is what'shappening.
This is good, because after this, something else will happen.
But I always go, I've got no right to write this book.
And isn't that fascinating?
I think that's actually quite good for other people to hear because despite the fact thatyou could look around to your bookshelf and see the books that you have published and have
(11:45):
been very successful, there's still that moment or those moments where the little voicepops up and goes, who are you to write this?
What are you?
exactly.
As you're talking about confidence, I've been doing some thinking about trust forsomething that I'm writing at the moment and...
(12:06):
If I've said this on a podcast already, I apologise.
think I've said it somewhere else.
I, listeners, if you heard this before, just fast forward the next minute.
There was a Gary Glitter song in the 1970s.
I know he's a discredited singer now.
But actually the song, the song is really interesting because it was, love you love.
(12:27):
You love me too love.
I love you love me love.
I won't sing it out loud, but I'm sure somebody in the car is singing it now.
And I'm doing some thinking around starting with about trust that in order, so in acoaching relationship, for you to be able to trust the process and to trust me, I need to
(12:50):
trust myself first.
So I trust you trust, we trust.
Absolutely.
Love that, love anyone.
And love that idea.
Yeah.
I need to be confident enough in order for you to be confident enough in order for us tobe confident.
(13:12):
And if I'm faking it, so with trust, often the coach will fake it, particularly in theearly days, or if we have a um feeling of overwhelm about a particular person that we're
coaching.
So we can look as though we trust ourselves.
Yes.
and trust the process, but actually we're freaking out inside and people can feel that.
(13:36):
And then they don't trust the process or us.
Because why should they?
If we're sending out signals, however much we think we're hiding those, we are of coursesending out those signals, it's completely understandable that the person across the room
from us will kind of have those seeds of doubt as well.
(13:57):
Yeah.
And it also just impacts our ability to be in conversation and in relationship, doesn'tit?
If we're sort of distracted by this self-
doubt this kind of I don't quite, am I doing this right?
Is this, is it working?
Should I have asked a different question?
All of those things.
We're not fully, we're not fully in it.
We can't be.
(14:20):
and yet we think we can control things.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, I mean, the thing that just popped into my mind as you said, that was a little bitback to when I was talking about those experiential groups and sitting with discomfort and
sitting with silence.
I think something that I've got more comfortable with as I've got, you know, sort of moreexperience as a coach is it's okay if I notice some of that distraction.
(14:54):
to just pause and leave again and just allow myself to come back into sort of beingpresent again, or even naming it in some way.
Much better, I think, to do that and to then be able to sort of fully reconnect with therelationship, the process, than somehow trying to fake it and be like, you know, must
(15:20):
immediately know what the question is and what's coming next.
Yeah, tempting to do that though, think particularly, particularly early on.
Yeah, but when we do that, we go down a blind alley, don't we?
And then that's our conversation, it's not their conversation.
And then we try and make it work, but it's not going to work because it's ourconversation.
(15:43):
They're going to go, that was lovely.
Yes.
because it might have been, but it wasn't useful.
Yes, absolutely.
I think, I don't know, do I think this?
I'm going to say it and decide as I go.
It might even have been useful, but was it the most useful thing?
(16:05):
Was it as useful as it could have been because it didn't come from them?
No.
um
in order to fill a gap.
I know we make up a lot of things because that's about how we create together, butactually sometimes we make it up because it feels uncomfortable, I think.
Yes, and we're not, I think there's a difference between making it up or makingconnections from what's here, what's going on between us and making it up from kind of
(16:34):
like almost a small moment of panic and the kind of, what do I do next?
And you sort of clutch at something, you pluck something from the air that's probably muchmore about you than about the person in front of you.
just had an insight which I'm about to write down.
Sorry.
Love that!
(16:54):
Of course, now I can't find out where I wrote it.
So what you said again.
eh What should I say?
ah Part of it was that sort of, yeah, we're clutching at something from a moment of panic.
We're not making something up on the basis of what was between us and what's reallyhappening.
(17:17):
We're reaching for something.
It's ours.
thank you.
It builds on something Andy Cain said in a podcast about four weeks ago, where I said tohim that in our presence training, we say to people when you don't know what to say, look.
Yes.
(17:38):
Yeah.
used a quote from Sanford Meisner, the answer is in the eyes of the other person.
And I've just written, or I make it up and it comes from me.
And then it's not about the conversation that we're having, is it?
It's my stuff that I'm now imposing into the space.
Absolutely, yeah.
Love that looking, so if I don't know what to say, kind of look.
(18:02):
That's so powerful.
And I think it also goes back to that sort of uh a feeling of sort of trust in myself thatI can do that, that that's okay, that that's not somehow going to be strange for the
person um who I'm working with.
Because I think if there's a sort of, you're slightly uneasy doing that, then
(18:23):
that brings that unease in, the other person feels uneasy, it's all just a bit odd andsomebody, perhaps they reach for something slightly desperately and just set, you know, as
a way to continue the conversation.
But again, you're not necessarily on the path of what is most useful or what's most real.
So there's something about really getting comfortable with this is what I'm here for is tojust be a hundred percent present and to look and to not
(18:53):
not try so hard.
But the courage it takes to look when you don't know what to do, when actually what youwant to do is look away because it's a bit embarrassing, isn't it, not to know what to do?
Because I don't want you to see my fear.
Can I just say, if anyone wants to know about the book writing process, this is coming toa book near you soon.
(19:18):
That is so the book writing process, isn't it?
I think that just we hear, I'm sure there's a word for this, there's a term for this, butwe sort of hear or experience the things that we're going through, through that lens.
It's always sort of there and we're with slightly magpie mode about, oh, and it pops,yeah, ideas pop, or at least that's what happens for me.
I think that might be what happened for you when you were reaching for your pen just then.
(19:42):
This is
love to say I wrote in order and planning if you're on if you're on YouTube this is a bigmess which will become a chapter
I mean, that's sort of slightly astonishing to me because my process is the opposite.
So I start with the structure and start with the idea, you know, and map that out.
(20:06):
And then I find it easier to write.
So it's, you know, there's a bit of me that's like, how do you, what?
that works as well.
That's so strange, but that's probably a metaphor for life, isn't it?
There's lots of different ways of getting to the same point.
there are.
And I think what's interesting is that I've got a new idea which has been bubbling up overover quite a long time.
(20:32):
And if I'd for me.
Now, when I write, it's often emerging, it's often connecting thoughts that are comingtogether from.
lots of different places where I go, if you put that thought and this thought and thatobservation and this together, then it makes this.
(20:53):
But I don't know what that is until I start putting it together, which is why I have a bitof a strange relationship with proposals.
Yes, yeah, because how could you, yeah, how could you just leap to the end point?
You need to go through that creative process and the emergence, let things come togetherbefore you know what the outcome is.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's fun, but thank you for that.
(21:16):
That's, that's done.
Yeah, but it does take courage to look and you have to be confident to look intosomebody's eyes when you don't know what to do.
Yes, yes, yeah.
And it's all part of holding the space, isn't it?
It's sort of how do I bring that?
(21:38):
I think it's something about the contagion.
I'm probably thinking of my book title, but there is something about how do I hold thespace and bring a sort of sense of ease and calm and just we are okay.
uh How do I feed that into the space that enables the person we're coaching, makes iteasier for them to access that similar sort of sense of, I'm okay, we're okay, this is
(22:08):
okay.
And that's where the work is, isn't it?
It's not in what am I going to ask?
No.
No.
what are all the things that I need to experience, believe, understand.
in order for them to really completely get that this is a perfectly okay space to be in.
(22:29):
am not in the least bit freaked out.
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
And this is a sort of paradox.
If we are, if we're spending too much time focusing on what's the perfect question, thenactually what we're sort of feeding into that space is that things need to be perfectly
articulated and beautifully put.
that, yeah, almost better to start a question and then say, actually, no, I don't thinkthat's what I'm, just let me, let me figure out, okay, I think it's this.
(23:01):
I think you're modeling something more useful there.
And they're probably already starting to answer the badly constructed phrase that youstarted with, which is probably a fabulous question.
Sometimes I'm amazed by what people can answer because in some ways it doesn't matter whatI say.
It's a sort of misdemeanor for them to continue their own process.
(23:24):
again, it's a work in progress, but I try to, if I say something that's bit not thateloquent, just stop and wait and see if they can do something with it.
And often they can.
Indeed.
will make the connection.
Yeah, yeah.
(23:44):
I do sometimes think if somebody read a transcript, they'd be like, what?
But they don't see, I suppose it's quite one dimensional, two dimensional, the transcript.
You can't capture a lot of what is going on.
which is why recordings are great.
Yes, true.
(24:06):
because you can hear the mood that's coming in.
And you can see the looking or you can see, yeah, yeah, you get much more of a roundedsense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
that's amazing.
Thank you.
This has been a very good podcast for me.
(24:26):
Bonus!
It's a bonus!
Yeah.
So what made you decide, what got you from the dream of these books to actually steppingin?
I think it's probably a couple of things.
think what I know about myself is that once I decide to do something, I will absolutely doit.
(24:49):
I think there was a, yeah, I don't know if there was a moment, but I guess as I came tothe point where I thought I am going to convert this idea into a thing, then it was
absolutely going to happen from that point.
And actually it was...
It happened quite quickly.
I didn't give myself as long as I might have done to write the first one.
(25:12):
I'm learning that lesson for the second one and giving myself a longer, a longertimeframe.
I think the other thing that contributed was just actually, really, I love learning andwriting a book is so much about learning.
I mean, you learn about yourself.
It's a great reason to research and dig into things that are interesting.
So there's a, there's a huge learning process.
(25:35):
I love reading.
And again, it's a great,
reason to read all sorts of things and amazing where you find yourself, you sort of followyour interests, find all sorts of fascinating things.
And I love writing.
I mean, probably not 100 % of the time, but I do, I love words.
love playing with words and I've always, I've always enjoyed that kind of back to back toschool.
So I think that's probably not only my, if I've started something, I will absolutelyfinishing it, finish it.
(26:02):
Also the fact that it was enjoyable.
It was genuinely.
an enjoyable process, so it was sort of easier to find the time or make the time for it.
And when I was reading it, it felt like it was inside you and it was just coming out.
Yes, I think it's so interesting when I when I put together the proposal for this secondbook, what occurred to me was this was perhaps the the book that I in inverted commas
(26:32):
should have written.
So in terms of you know, what's closer to my business or my day to day or the sorts ofthings, you the work that I might be trying to sell the second book is closer.
But the first one needed to come out.
The first one was the one that I had to write.
m
And probably also, I didn't say this when you asked earlier about it, but I think alsothere was a personal thread in the first one.
(26:55):
And I hasten to add, it doesn't mean that it's all about me and my story, because I thinkthat would be excessively self-indulgent and a bit dull.
But there is something in that I feel like I know this topic from the inside out, that Ihave battled with confidence, and I can see the sort of ups and downs as I look back in my
own experience.
So I think that probably is part of why.
(27:19):
it was in there and it needed to come out, be expressed in some way.
yeah and now you've been nominated for the Business Records 2025.
indeed.
I'm hoping to follow in your footsteps, Claire, and have a little trophy to bring home inSeptember.
uh Yeah, looking forward to the awards.
(27:40):
Look forward to the party, actually.
It'd fab, wouldn't it, to bring something home?
But the party, apparently, is brilliant in itself.
Party is an amazing thing.
In fact, the other day I was talking on the coaching into Rachel Philpott who sat next tome at the party.
And yeah, it was a beautiful thing.
So make sure you've got your blingy dress.
(28:02):
Yeah, yeah, I've got a couple of options, I think I'm going to try and avoid thetemptation to buy something new, wear something in my wardrobe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And take, if you're gonna win and you wanna take a photograph, you need to take amicrofiber cloth.
Right, yeah.
get rid of all the fingerprints on it.
(28:26):
I think what has just gone through my mind is that I definitely will not take one of thosebecause that would be assuming that I was going to win and therefore I wouldn't.
Now clearly the decision has already been made, me taking a cloth or not has nothing to dowith it, but in my mind it's like, no, that would be bad thing.
uh It is business self-development, which makes perfect sense.
(28:50):
It's exactly what it is, I think.
Nice.
And Alison Jones and Practical Inspiration have had so many shortlisted books, haven'tthey, this year that you might very well find yourself in the same category as someone
else on your table.
I am, so I am up against another practical inspiration author, which is sort of a niceproblem to have.
(29:11):
Yes, and Alison, so I think she thought she couldn't be last year's or practicalinspiration couldn't be last year's of 18 and this year's she's got 22 on the various
shortlists.
It's astonishing.
Yeah, she needs to think about confidence, doesn't she?
Hehehehehe oh
Yes.
So if people want to read your book, it's called Coach Yourself Confident by Julie Smith.
(29:38):
yes, available wherever you get your books.
So yes, all good bookstores and all the rest of it.
Some of them have it on their bookshelves.
If anybody could do me a favour and sort of go into their local Waterstones and just say,of course you should have this book on your shelves.
And that would make me very happy.
(29:59):
I'm still on a mission to see it in my local Waterstones.
you could tell them to take The Human Behind the Coach and Simplifying Coaching too.
Right, good, yes, I think that would be a very good idea.
I could take my copy of Human, By, the Cat, in fact both of those books in, and say lookthese are really good, why are they not on the shelves?
(30:19):
I'll give that a go.
nice, nice.
And if you've read Coach Yourself Confident, then do rate it or review it on Amazonbecause that makes a huge difference.
it does.
That'd be brilliant.
to authors in their attic rooms and garden buildings.
And if people want to talk to you about the potential to work with you, how do they makecontact?
(30:41):
So the easiest thing would be either talentsprout.co.uk.
So talent sprout is my business name.
Sprout as in growth, not as in vegetable.
Or find me on LinkedIn.
And I do have quite a common surname, but if you search Julie Smith talent sprout, thenyou'll definitely find me.
(31:03):
brilliant.
Thank you, Julie, for coming.
It's been a joy.
Thank you very much.
What a lovely way to start my day today.
Delightful to finally meet you.
Absolutely.
Let's do it again.
yeah, next time we meet, we will know that we actually have met.
Unspoken voice to voice.
(31:23):
It's what happens, isn't it, when you send lots of messages to people.
Yes, I think there's also something about because we've both read each other's books, Ithink there's something else it feels like you've met because there's a, you know, there's
a sense of your voice and who you are and what's important to you.
So it's quite a, it's quite a connecting thing.
It's quite a personal thing reading somebody else's book.
(31:45):
I m had a conversation with one of our lovely listeners the other day and he said, youknow who you are, by the way.
eh It is you.
And he said, it's funny because I feel like I know you and you don't know anything aboutme.
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
Because you do, I mean, I can tell even from this conversation, you put you into thepodcast, right?
(32:08):
I guess you probably wouldn't know how else to do it.
How is it possible not to?
So you do allow the listeners to kind of see you and get to know you.
But it is slightly strange, isn't it?
That one way is one way.
That's slightly, slightly odd.
Yeah, it's very unusual.
So anyway, thank you, Julie, for coming.
Thank you for everyone for listening.
(32:28):
And we'll be back next week with another episode.
Bye bye.
Hello everyone and welcome to this week's edition of The Coaching Inn.
I'm your host, Claire Pedrick.
ah If you love this episode, do like it and make a comment on the platform where youlisten to your podcasts or on YouTube.
That would be absolutely fabulous and we'd love that very much.
Today's guest, I've just realized as we begin to talk that we've never actually metbecause it feels like we've known each other for a long time.
(00:42):
Julie Smith, welcome to The Coaching Inn.
Thank you very much.
Really good to be here.
Yeah, so you've written an amazing book, which I read in Spain, Coach Yourself Confident.
And you've got another one bubbling away, I hear.
I have indeed, yeah, I'm 12,000 words into the shitty first draft of the next one.
(01:07):
So I'm enjoying this phase where those first words come easily.
I know it's going to get harder, but that's okay.
I can enjoy this bit for now.
Yeah, that's what I was doing in Spain and then it all went in the bin because I realisedit was the wrong book again.
Wouldn't you think I'd have learnt that by now?
okay.
god, I hope that doesn't happen to me.
I'm pretty firm.
(01:29):
I like this one.
Good, excellent.
So tell us about your coaching journey first.
Yes, yeah, gosh, it goes back a bit now.
So I did my initial coaching qualification, must've been 2006, while I was still atPepsiCo.
(01:49):
So I was really fortunate to be able to do it while I was still there.
And the business gave me the kind of time out over the 12 or 18 months, whatever it was,and funded it, which was brilliant.
And then I was able to use it straight away with some coaching assignments with seniorleaders internally.
So that was, yeah, it was fantastic.
(02:09):
And I still remember so much about the coaching training, even though it's 20 years agonow, it was quite a life shifting experience.
You have to really get to know yourself, don't you?
In kind of coach training.
I think that was perhaps unexpected for most of us on the program.
(02:30):
at Peter Blockett, so it was a Gestalt sort of focus, Gestalt inspired program.
it was, yeah, I still remember the experiential groups, which was very Gestalt where weall sat in a circle and there was just no structure whatsoever.
And we just sat and waited and saw what happened.
And in the first time that happened, we just all sat so uncomfortably.
(02:54):
It was almost unbearable.
And by the end of the program,
There was still a level of discomfort, but it was, yeah, it had really shifted.
That's a great way of learning presence and courage, isn't it?
Yes, it really is.
And noticing what goes on for you in the silences and in the in-between bit.
(03:16):
I think it's so useful for coaching that actually a lot of what we do, I it's justoccurring to me now, a lot of what we do is sitting with discomfort, whether it's our own,
whether it's the clients, whether it's sort of in the room between us.
How do we sit with that?
How do we not rush in with words?
All of those good things that I think...
(03:38):
none of us realised Pete was helping us to learn, but he really was and very consciouslywas.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that kind of stuff is in very few coach training programmes, isn't it?
Yes, I think a lot of it is about the doing.
Yeah, and what we miss is all of the rest of it that's in your brilliant book, The HumanBehind the Coat, just all of that doesn't necessarily get paid enough attention to, I
(04:07):
don't think.
And it was certainly there in Spades in Pete's program, definitely.
Excellent.
So, so Julie, my long-time friend who I've never met, where in the world are you?
I am in Leicestershire, so I'm in a village just north of Leicester in their lovelycountryside.
(04:31):
So coach yourself confident won a prize.
It did, yeah.
I won a prize with a very long name, so I might get them sort of in the wrong order, butit was Get Abstract, International Book Award, Business Impact, Reader's Choice.
it was shortlisted by the editorial team at Get Abstract.
(04:55):
So they create summaries for a whole range of books over a year and they pick theirfavorites for the shortlist.
And then there was a vote.
I was...
particularly delighted to have won via the vote.
Wow, that's amazing.
So what made you decide to write a book about confidence?
(05:16):
Yeah, I think the, definitely goes back to the, to my coaching and what comes up in thecoaching room.
And I think there was, um guess, the sort of idea that I see so many brilliant people whodon't quite own their brilliance, don't quite know how brilliant they are.
And that a uh lack of confidence just comes up in so many coaching conversations.
(05:43):
sometimes as the sort of headline, know, the reason for coming or the topic that somebodybrings, but so often as a thread that sits beneath, you you sort of start with, I've just
made a transition into a new role and it's a more strategic role and you know, what willthat mean?
And you start exploring that with somebody and can quite quickly get to, there's somethingabout the way I see myself or I don't.
(06:09):
I don't think I'm a strategic person or I'm not particularly good at this or somethingthat is more about their self-image and their confidence.
So I think that was, I guess, the sort of seeing a need.
And I just got enthusiastic about the idea of what if I could package some of the benefitsof coaching, which by nature is quite exclusive between the covers of a book.
(06:39):
what might that look like.
So that was the idea and then the title, Coaching Self-Confident and the sort of practicaltools that I've tried to put in there to sort of support a lot, support reflection and
then some kind of, okay, what do I, what might I experiment with?
What might I do?
So that was the idea.
Nice.
(07:00):
My husband grabbed it off me.
Yeah, he's reading it now.
Yeah, he's working through it slowly.
Yeah.
I'd love to know what he makes of it.
Yeah, and you know, it is accessible to people who wouldn't necessarily choose to get acoach or would go actually, it's all right.
It's not great, but it's not, you know, that's okay.
(07:24):
And suddenly you, you can invest in yourself.
Yes, yeah.
You're the second, at least the second person who said to me they read it and then theirhusband has read it or is reading it.
And I find that particularly gratifying because you and I know that more women than menbuy this kind of book.
(07:44):
And I also have a bit of a thing that lack of confidence is sort of attached in society towomen.
It's, you know, often if you talk about imposter syndrome, if people talk about that, itis usually associated with
women and I made a very conscious decision to write the book for any and all genders,because I just, I don't think it works like that.
(08:05):
It's not the case that, you know, only women lack confidence.
And actually for some of the men that I've supported over the years and coached over theyears, they, you know, they lack confidence.
And then there's a sort of extra layer of beating themselves up because somehow they feelthey shouldn't, um because it's, yeah, it's not a male thing.
So,
(08:25):
Excellent, I'm particularly pleased that your husband has picked her.
it's a generational thing as well.
I wonder whether younger men, it's just a wonder, might be more able to say that they lackconfidence than older men, partly because of the empowering of women.
(08:51):
Yes, I wonder, mean, my instinct says there's probably something in that hypothesis andwouldn't it be fascinating to find out?
I think there's so much to research potentially in kind of gender and societal norms andhow are things shifting and how does that change the way that we see ourselves?
(09:16):
Yeah, really interesting stuff.
feel we should have a little blog for potential research topics that come out of thecoaching in.
I'm sure there are many.
I'm sure there are many.
This week, I've recorded a few episodes and I think there's one come out of everyconversation where we're hoping that one of you lovely listeners will go, yeah, I'd like
(09:37):
to research that.
Yes, because they can't just all be added to Claire's list, they?
I mean, you'd be quite busy if you tried to do that.
enough, thank you.
Yeah, so what's your next book on, Julie?
So it's a leadership book, but in the same sort of territory.
So I think I'm allowed to say the title.
(09:58):
I'll say it anyway.
So it's Contagious Confidence, a Leader's Guide to Building Belief and Power inPerformance.
So I guess the sort of premise is that I think there's a connection between confidence andperformance at an individual level and at a collective level.
So it's sort of exploring as a leader, how do you support someone to find their...
(10:19):
self-belief, how do you support the team to believe in each other and sort of build thecollective confidence that we have what we need to deliver and how do you build the
confidence in the shared mission and what we're here to do.
um So that's the, I'm slightly panicking now, Clare, that I'll have a moment like you did,which is, you know, get so far in and then think, no, this isn't the book.
(10:41):
Yeah, but you have probably have a plan which I never have.
interesting.
So how do you, what's your process?
You start?
Yeah.
I haven't written the proposal for the book that I'm writing at the moment.
So the publisher has said yes.
But I don't write the proposal until I know what the book is and what its voice is.
(11:03):
And it takes quite a lot of writing.
It was so funny in Spain reading your book and writing at the same time because I alwayslose confidence.
Yes.
lose confidence.
uh I always think I've got nothing to say.
I've always think I'm writing the wrong book.
And I now I know that's normal.
(11:24):
It's a really much easier process to go through because you go, yeah, okay, this is what'shappening.
This is good, because after this, something else will happen.
But I always go, I've got no right to write this book.
And isn't that fascinating?
I think that's actually quite good for other people to hear because despite the fact thatyou could look around to your bookshelf and see the books that you have published and have
(11:45):
been very successful, there's still that moment or those moments where the little voicepops up and goes, who are you to write this?
What are you?
exactly.
As you're talking about confidence, I've been doing some thinking about trust forsomething that I'm writing at the moment and...
(12:06):
If I've said this on a podcast already, I apologise.
think I've said it somewhere else.
I, listeners, if you heard this before, just fast forward the next minute.
There was a Gary Glitter song in the 1970s.
I know he's a discredited singer now.
But actually the song, the song is really interesting because it was, love you love.
(12:27):
You love me too love.
I love you love me love.
I won't sing it out loud, but I'm sure somebody in the car is singing it now.
And I'm doing some thinking around starting with about trust that in order, so in acoaching relationship, for you to be able to trust the process and to trust me, I need to
(12:50):
trust myself first.
So I trust you trust, we trust.
Absolutely.
Love that, love anyone.
And love that idea.
Yeah.
I need to be confident enough in order for you to be confident enough in order for us tobe confident.
(13:12):
And if I'm faking it, so with trust, often the coach will fake it, particularly in theearly days, or if we have a um feeling of overwhelm about a particular person that we're
coaching.
So we can look as though we trust ourselves.
Yes.
and trust the process, but actually we're freaking out inside and people can feel that.
(13:36):
And then they don't trust the process or us.
Because why should they?
If we're sending out signals, however much we think we're hiding those, we are of coursesending out those signals, it's completely understandable that the person across the room
from us will kind of have those seeds of doubt as well.
(13:57):
Yeah.
And it also just impacts our ability to be in conversation and in relationship, doesn'tit?
If we're sort of distracted by this self-
doubt this kind of I don't quite, am I doing this right?
Is this, is it working?
Should I have asked a different question?
All of those things.
We're not fully, we're not fully in it.
We can't be.
(14:20):
and yet we think we can control things.
Yes, yes.
Yeah, I mean, the thing that just popped into my mind as you said, that was a little bitback to when I was talking about those experiential groups and sitting with discomfort and
sitting with silence.
I think something that I've got more comfortable with as I've got, you know, sort of moreexperience as a coach is it's okay if I notice some of that distraction.
(14:54):
to just pause and leave again and just allow myself to come back into sort of beingpresent again, or even naming it in some way.
Much better, I think, to do that and to then be able to sort of fully reconnect with therelationship, the process, than somehow trying to fake it and be like, you know, must
(15:20):
immediately know what the question is and what's coming next.
Yeah, tempting to do that though, think particularly, particularly early on.
Yeah, but when we do that, we go down a blind alley, don't we?
And then that's our conversation, it's not their conversation.
And then we try and make it work, but it's not going to work because it's ourconversation.
(15:43):
They're going to go, that was lovely.
Yes.
because it might have been, but it wasn't useful.
Yes, absolutely.
I think, I don't know, do I think this?
I'm going to say it and decide as I go.
It might even have been useful, but was it the most useful thing?
(16:05):
Was it as useful as it could have been because it didn't come from them?
No.
um
in order to fill a gap.
I know we make up a lot of things because that's about how we create together, butactually sometimes we make it up because it feels uncomfortable, I think.
Yes, and we're not, I think there's a difference between making it up or makingconnections from what's here, what's going on between us and making it up from kind of
(16:34):
like almost a small moment of panic and the kind of, what do I do next?
And you sort of clutch at something, you pluck something from the air that's probably muchmore about you than about the person in front of you.
just had an insight which I'm about to write down.
Sorry.
Love that!
(16:54):
Of course, now I can't find out where I wrote it.
So what you said again.
eh What should I say?
ah Part of it was that sort of, yeah, we're clutching at something from a moment of panic.
We're not making something up on the basis of what was between us and what's reallyhappening.
(17:17):
We're reaching for something.
It's ours.
thank you.
It builds on something Andy Cain said in a podcast about four weeks ago, where I said tohim that in our presence training, we say to people when you don't know what to say, look.
Yes.
(17:38):
Yeah.
used a quote from Sanford Meisner, the answer is in the eyes of the other person.
And I've just written, or I make it up and it comes from me.
And then it's not about the conversation that we're having, is it?
It's my stuff that I'm now imposing into the space.
Absolutely, yeah.
Love that looking, so if I don't know what to say, kind of look.
(18:02):
That's so powerful.
And I think it also goes back to that sort of uh a feeling of sort of trust in myself thatI can do that, that that's okay, that that's not somehow going to be strange for the
person um who I'm working with.
Because I think if there's a sort of, you're slightly uneasy doing that, then
(18:23):
that brings that unease in, the other person feels uneasy, it's all just a bit odd andsomebody, perhaps they reach for something slightly desperately and just set, you know, as
a way to continue the conversation.
But again, you're not necessarily on the path of what is most useful or what's most real.
So there's something about really getting comfortable with this is what I'm here for is tojust be a hundred percent present and to look and to not
(18:53):
not try so hard.
But the courage it takes to look when you don't know what to do, when actually what youwant to do is look away because it's a bit embarrassing, isn't it, not to know what to do?
Because I don't want you to see my fear.
Can I just say, if anyone wants to know about the book writing process, this is coming toa book near you soon.
(19:18):
That is so the book writing process, isn't it?
I think that just we hear, I'm sure there's a word for this, there's a term for this, butwe sort of hear or experience the things that we're going through, through that lens.
It's always sort of there and we're with slightly magpie mode about, oh, and it pops,yeah, ideas pop, or at least that's what happens for me.
I think that might be what happened for you when you were reaching for your pen just then.
(19:42):
This is
love to say I wrote in order and planning if you're on if you're on YouTube this is a bigmess which will become a chapter
I mean, that's sort of slightly astonishing to me because my process is the opposite.
So I start with the structure and start with the idea, you know, and map that out.
(20:06):
And then I find it easier to write.
So it's, you know, there's a bit of me that's like, how do you, what?
that works as well.
That's so strange, but that's probably a metaphor for life, isn't it?
There's lots of different ways of getting to the same point.
there are.
And I think what's interesting is that I've got a new idea which has been bubbling up overover quite a long time.
(20:32):
And if I'd for me.
Now, when I write, it's often emerging, it's often connecting thoughts that are comingtogether from.
lots of different places where I go, if you put that thought and this thought and thatobservation and this together, then it makes this.
(20:53):
But I don't know what that is until I start putting it together, which is why I have a bitof a strange relationship with proposals.
Yes, yeah, because how could you, yeah, how could you just leap to the end point?
You need to go through that creative process and the emergence, let things come togetherbefore you know what the outcome is.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's fun, but thank you for that.
(21:16):
That's, that's done.
Yeah, but it does take courage to look and you have to be confident to look intosomebody's eyes when you don't know what to do.
Yes, yes, yeah.
And it's all part of holding the space, isn't it?
It's sort of how do I bring that?
(21:38):
I think it's something about the contagion.
I'm probably thinking of my book title, but there is something about how do I hold thespace and bring a sort of sense of ease and calm and just we are okay.
uh How do I feed that into the space that enables the person we're coaching, makes iteasier for them to access that similar sort of sense of, I'm okay, we're okay, this is
(22:08):
okay.
And that's where the work is, isn't it?
It's not in what am I going to ask?
No.
No.
what are all the things that I need to experience, believe, understand.
in order for them to really completely get that this is a perfectly okay space to be in.
(22:29):
am not in the least bit freaked out.
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
And this is a sort of paradox.
If we are, if we're spending too much time focusing on what's the perfect question, thenactually what we're sort of feeding into that space is that things need to be perfectly
articulated and beautifully put.
that, yeah, almost better to start a question and then say, actually, no, I don't thinkthat's what I'm, just let me, let me figure out, okay, I think it's this.
(23:01):
I think you're modeling something more useful there.
And they're probably already starting to answer the badly constructed phrase that youstarted with, which is probably a fabulous question.
Sometimes I'm amazed by what people can answer because in some ways it doesn't matter whatI say.
It's a sort of misdemeanor for them to continue their own process.
(23:24):
again, it's a work in progress, but I try to, if I say something that's bit not thateloquent, just stop and wait and see if they can do something with it.
And often they can.
Indeed.
will make the connection.
Yeah, yeah.
(23:44):
I do sometimes think if somebody read a transcript, they'd be like, what?
But they don't see, I suppose it's quite one dimensional, two dimensional, the transcript.
You can't capture a lot of what is going on.
which is why recordings are great.
Yes, true.
(24:06):
because you can hear the mood that's coming in.
And you can see the looking or you can see, yeah, yeah, you get much more of a roundedsense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
that's amazing.
Thank you.
This has been a very good podcast for me.
(24:26):
Bonus!
It's a bonus!
Yeah.
So what made you decide, what got you from the dream of these books to actually steppingin?
I think it's probably a couple of things.
think what I know about myself is that once I decide to do something, I will absolutely doit.
(24:49):
I think there was a, yeah, I don't know if there was a moment, but I guess as I came tothe point where I thought I am going to convert this idea into a thing, then it was
absolutely going to happen from that point.
And actually it was...
It happened quite quickly.
I didn't give myself as long as I might have done to write the first one.
(25:12):
I'm learning that lesson for the second one and giving myself a longer, a longertimeframe.
I think the other thing that contributed was just actually, really, I love learning andwriting a book is so much about learning.
I mean, you learn about yourself.
It's a great reason to research and dig into things that are interesting.
So there's a, there's a huge learning process.
(25:35):
I love reading.
And again, it's a great,
reason to read all sorts of things and amazing where you find yourself, you sort of followyour interests, find all sorts of fascinating things.
And I love writing.
I mean, probably not 100 % of the time, but I do, I love words.
love playing with words and I've always, I've always enjoyed that kind of back to back toschool.
So I think that's probably not only my, if I've started something, I will absolutelyfinishing it, finish it.
(26:02):
Also the fact that it was enjoyable.
It was genuinely.
an enjoyable process, so it was sort of easier to find the time or make the time for it.
And when I was reading it, it felt like it was inside you and it was just coming out.
Yes, I think it's so interesting when I when I put together the proposal for this secondbook, what occurred to me was this was perhaps the the book that I in inverted commas
(26:32):
should have written.
So in terms of you know, what's closer to my business or my day to day or the sorts ofthings, you the work that I might be trying to sell the second book is closer.
But the first one needed to come out.
The first one was the one that I had to write.
m
And probably also, I didn't say this when you asked earlier about it, but I think alsothere was a personal thread in the first one.
(26:55):
And I hasten to add, it doesn't mean that it's all about me and my story, because I thinkthat would be excessively self-indulgent and a bit dull.
But there is something in that I feel like I know this topic from the inside out, that Ihave battled with confidence, and I can see the sort of ups and downs as I look back in my
own experience.
So I think that probably is part of why.
(27:19):
it was in there and it needed to come out, be expressed in some way.
yeah and now you've been nominated for the Business Records 2025.
indeed.
I'm hoping to follow in your footsteps, Claire, and have a little trophy to bring home inSeptember.
uh Yeah, looking forward to the awards.
(27:40):
Look forward to the party, actually.
It'd fab, wouldn't it, to bring something home?
But the party, apparently, is brilliant in itself.
Party is an amazing thing.
In fact, the other day I was talking on the coaching into Rachel Philpott who sat next tome at the party.
And yeah, it was a beautiful thing.
So make sure you've got your blingy dress.
(28:02):
Yeah, yeah, I've got a couple of options, I think I'm going to try and avoid thetemptation to buy something new, wear something in my wardrobe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And take, if you're gonna win and you wanna take a photograph, you need to take amicrofiber cloth.
Right, yeah.
get rid of all the fingerprints on it.
(28:26):
I think what has just gone through my mind is that I definitely will not take one of thosebecause that would be assuming that I was going to win and therefore I wouldn't.
Now clearly the decision has already been made, me taking a cloth or not has nothing to dowith it, but in my mind it's like, no, that would be bad thing.
uh It is business self-development, which makes perfect sense.
(28:50):
It's exactly what it is, I think.
Nice.
And Alison Jones and Practical Inspiration have had so many shortlisted books, haven'tthey, this year that you might very well find yourself in the same category as someone
else on your table.
I am, so I am up against another practical inspiration author, which is sort of a niceproblem to have.
(29:11):
Yes, and Alison, so I think she thought she couldn't be last year's or practicalinspiration couldn't be last year's of 18 and this year's she's got 22 on the various
shortlists.
It's astonishing.
Yeah, she needs to think about confidence, doesn't she?
Hehehehehe oh
Yes.
So if people want to read your book, it's called Coach Yourself Confident by Julie Smith.
(29:38):
yes, available wherever you get your books.
So yes, all good bookstores and all the rest of it.
Some of them have it on their bookshelves.
If anybody could do me a favour and sort of go into their local Waterstones and just say,of course you should have this book on your shelves.
And that would make me very happy.
(29:59):
I'm still on a mission to see it in my local Waterstones.
you could tell them to take The Human Behind the Coach and Simplifying Coaching too.
Right, good, yes, I think that would be a very good idea.
I could take my copy of Human, By, the Cat, in fact both of those books in, and say lookthese are really good, why are they not on the shelves?
(30:19):
I'll give that a go.
nice, nice.
And if you've read Coach Yourself Confident, then do rate it or review it on Amazonbecause that makes a huge difference.
it does.
That'd be brilliant.
to authors in their attic rooms and garden buildings.
And if people want to talk to you about the potential to work with you, how do they makecontact?
(30:41):
So the easiest thing would be either talentsprout.co.uk.
So talent sprout is my business name.
Sprout as in growth, not as in vegetable.
Or find me on LinkedIn.
And I do have quite a common surname, but if you search Julie Smith talent sprout, thenyou'll definitely find me.
(31:03):
brilliant.
Thank you, Julie, for coming.
It's been a joy.
Thank you very much.
What a lovely way to start my day today.
Delightful to finally meet you.
Absolutely.
Let's do it again.
yeah, next time we meet, we will know that we actually have met.
Unspoken voice to voice.
(31:23):
It's what happens, isn't it, when you send lots of messages to people.
Yes, I think there's also something about because we've both read each other's books, Ithink there's something else it feels like you've met because there's a, you know, there's
a sense of your voice and who you are and what's important to you.
So it's quite a, it's quite a connecting thing.
It's quite a personal thing reading somebody else's book.
(31:45):
I m had a conversation with one of our lovely listeners the other day and he said, youknow who you are, by the way.
eh It is you.
And he said, it's funny because I feel like I know you and you don't know anything aboutme.
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
Because you do, I mean, I can tell even from this conversation, you put you into thepodcast, right?
(32:08):
I guess you probably wouldn't know how else to do it.
How is it possible not to?
So you do allow the listeners to kind of see you and get to know you.
But it is slightly strange, isn't it?
That one way is one way.
That's slightly, slightly odd.
Yeah, it's very unusual.
So anyway, thank you, Julie, for coming.
Thank you for everyone for listening.
(32:28):
And we'll be back next week with another episode.
Bye bye.
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