Episode 10: Unraveling The WPATH Files with Mia Hughes

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Music.

(01:10):
Welcome to the Dark Side of the Rainbow.
This is Robert Wallace, and today we have Mia Hughes.
Mia is the author of the WPATH files, and she's joining us today to discuss
the revelations and the impact that that report has made.

(01:32):
How are you doing today, Mia?
I'm very well, thank you. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being had.
Yeah. So let me ask you, I was listening to one of your other interviews and
you mentioned something that I don't think gets repeated or said enough.
And that's regarding the dangers of HRT or hormone replacement therapy and how deadly it can be.

(01:58):
I was wondering, what kind of findings do you have on that or what have you
discovered that brought you to that?
Right. So there was a, first of all, the report that I wrote was based upon
leaked internal communications from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health.
And so this is from an internal messaging forum. It's called DocMatter.

(02:22):
And it's where medical professionals are supposed to congregate and discuss
patients and improve patient outcome.
And that's not what happens on WPaths Forum. And so one of the leaked conversations
that we had, and it's a very short conversation.
It was about a, I think it was a 16 year old girl who was on testosterone and

(02:45):
she had developed large liver masses.
Now, it was not clear if it was malignant or benign, but her oncologist thought
that the offending agents were the hormones.
And so it's a doctor who posts about this 16-year-old girl.
And then another WPATH doctor, also a family physician, shows up with a little anecdote.

(03:13):
And she says, oh, I had a trans-identified colleague who,
after several years on testosterone, testosterone
developed liver cancer and died
and her oncologist well they
would use different pronouns but her oncologist also put
it down to the testosterone and then that

(03:35):
was the end of the conversation this is you know to me that's a red flag in
and of itself is the fact that that was the end of the conversation nobody had
like this oh my goodness we really need to look into this What if testosterone
is causing liver cancer in all of these young patients?
We don't know because this is brand new.

(03:58):
We have never given testosterone to females on a grand scale before.
This has never been mainstream medical practice. So we have no long-term data.
So when I was writing the report, I included, obviously, this anecdote as one
of the side effects of testosterone in natal females.

(04:18):
I looked and I found there was another case study of, and this was also a teenage
girl, it was published in The Lancet, and another teenage girl on testosterone
who had also developed liver cancer.
We don't know the outcome for the girl, but I assume it probably wasn't very good.

(04:39):
And then again, they were concerned that the reason was the testosterone.
And then there was somebody tried to do, because of that unusual case and because
of another unusual case, they tried to do a systematic review of the literature
to see if they could find a pattern.
But the conclusion was they couldn't because, as I just said,

(05:05):
this is brand new territory.
We've never done this before. We have no idea what the long-term outcome is
for these girls, but we do know that testosterone is carcinogenic.
We know from the East German doping scandals when female athletes were given
an anabolic steroid which was derived from testosterone,

(05:28):
many of them developed liver cancer, many of them developed reproductive cancer.
So we know that there is there's a risk.
And yet still, we're dishing it out at Planned Parenthood after a one hour appointment
where these girls fill in a form.
So, yeah, it's something we're not talking about that we really should be.

(05:49):
Wow yeah i haven't
heard that connection made between
the testosterone and the for the hrt for the trans males that's what they would
be considered and yet that is part of the diet the dietary recommendation for

(06:11):
those who are recommended to go down this path.
Another thing that I liked that you said was that, you know,
this really is a psychosomatic condition at its root,
which is to say that it is rooted in the thinking process and in a psychological phase.

(06:33):
So could you elaborate on that? I could.
This is one of my favorite subjects to talk about. so we
have got if you look at these young
that we've got what is obviously
a psychiatric epidemic or a social contagion of what we now call gender dysphoria

(06:55):
we can see that because the numbers there was you know exponential growth mostly
adolescent females when historically it would would have been young boys and middle-aged men.
And so we can see that there's a psychiatric epidemic going on.
And then we've been here before.
We've had plenty of these before. We've had psychiatric epidemics of eating

(07:20):
disorders, bulimia, anorexia, multiple personality disorder,
hysteria back in the 19th century.
So there's a type of mental illness that is.
It's it's socially contagious and that
is partly because it's not well

(07:41):
i'm gonna say it's not real the field of psychiatry creates mental illnesses
it depends you know these things evolve with the culture the cultural whims
and the fads of the era create their own psychiatric disorders and they come and they go.
And the people, those who find themselves in distress, we are just talking unhappy people.

(08:09):
Throughout history, there have always been unhappy people, people who are struggling,
people who, for whatever reason, they are not doing very well in life and they
do not feel good about themselves.
And every unhappy person in their time and in their place since the invention
of psychiatry, they have had a symptom pool.

(08:30):
They've had a pool of recognized psychiatric disorders that they can select from.
If you were alive in the late 19th century and you were an unhappy woman,
you could select hysteria from your symptom pool.
If you were alive in the 1980s and you were an unhappy woman,
you could select multiple personality disorder from the symptom pool.

(08:52):
And the symptom pool is always changing.
But when a woman, well, no, when someone, an unhappy person is either given
a diagnosis or gives themselves a diagnosis, then they become that diagnosis.
They absorb the diagnosis, they imbibe the narrative of their time,

(09:13):
and then they start to manifest the symptoms.
So a psychosomatic symptom, it can just be for these girls right now at this
time and in this place, they have got gender dysphoria to select from the symptom pool.
They're looking at their lives, they hate their body, they're miserable,
they don't fit in with people, they're not doing very well in life,

(09:35):
and they just select gender dysphoria from the symptom pool.
And along with that comes the
psychosomatic symptom, this hatred of their secondary sex characteristics.
So they'll They'll sort of imbibe the narrative of the modern trans rights movement
that tells them if they are unhappy, that means they're a member of the opposite sex.

(09:58):
And then they'll fixate on their secondary sex characteristics as the source
of their distress and then fixate on having them removed.
So they want to have their healthy breasts removed because they're convinced
that that's what's going to make them happy.
They'll they'll fixate on you know they'll
want testosterone because they fixated on the fact

(10:19):
that they need to look like a man in order to be happy
or they well they actually believe themselves to
be men and i in my report one of the things that i the part that i enjoyed writing
the most i have to say is towards the end i take four case studies of historical
medical scandals and compare them to the one that we've got going now.

(10:42):
And there's one which was ovariotomy in the 19th century, and it was the biggest
medical scandal of the 19th century.
And this was when surgeons were removing healthy ovaries as a cure for mental distress in women. And.
Again, this was based on something called reflex theory, which was the idea

(11:07):
that one organ in the body could create symptoms in a distant organ in the body.
Completely pseudoscientific. There's no truth to it whatsoever.
And so then what was happening was women of the time who were unhappy,
they were depressed, they were miserable, they were imbibing the narrative of reflex theory.

(11:27):
And then they were fixating on their healthy ovaries as the source of their mental distress.
And then they would show up and ask surgeons to remove their healthy ovaries.
And then many of them after the fact would say that they felt a lot better if they didn't die.
30% of them died because we're talking a time before antibiotics and surgical cleanliness.

(11:51):
But if they didn't die, many of them were
convinced that they were cured by having their perfectly
healthy ovaries removed that again is the
power of the mind right that's placebo if if you tell yourself something is
going to make you feel better and then you go through a very very awful brutal
surgery at the end of it you're going to be very motivated for it to have been

(12:16):
the right decision and to tell yourself that yes, you actually do feel better.
And it's the same thing as now. These young girls, they're fixating on body
parts that have nothing to do with their mental distress whatsoever.
They get their breasts removed. Sometimes they get their ovaries removed too.
And then after the fact, again, they tell themselves that it cured them and that they feel better.

(12:41):
But again, it's It's as pseudoscientific as reflex theory was in the 19th century.
This is not the source of their problems, but they're so influenced by the messaging
of the modern trans rights movement and the cultural climate in which they are growing up.

(13:04):
Yeah, absolutely. What role would you say that autism plays in this?
We know that a great majority of the trans-identifying patients are found somewhere
on the spectrum of autism.
A lot of times in social media, they're loud and proud about their mental health illness condition.

(13:26):
And obviously, being in that state both makes you vulnerable and brings your
decision and judgment Judgment-making abilities brings that into question.
What do you find with those regards?
Yeah, there are a number of reasons why kids on the spectrum would be more at risk for this.

(13:51):
One, I think it's quite tragic, really, when you think about it,
is, like I just said, it's the unhappy kids.
It's the unhappy people who are getting sucked into this. So,
if a young person is on the spectrum or has a diagnosis of autism,
they likely are struggling socially.

(14:13):
That's one of the symptoms of being autistic is you struggle to bond with your peers.
And these poor kids you know they they don't
really understand why they don't fit in they don't understand why other kids
don't like them and they as well they desperately want to fit in they want to
make connections they want to make friends and so part of it is just that but this is.

(14:40):
It preys on the vulnerable. It's the vulnerable kids.
It's the kids who are struggling who get sucked into this. Because if you put into Google, am I trans?
You put that in. If an autistic kid puts that in, am I trans?
And then a whole list, do you hate your body? Do you struggle to fit in with

(15:01):
your peers? Do you have no friends?
These are all symptoms of being trans, according to Google.
So, of course, the autistic kids, just because of their social difficulties,
they're going to be more attracted or they're going to be more likely to self-diagnose
and believe themselves to be trans.
And then there's another really troubling, distressing part that I find is when

(15:24):
they come out as trans or they see other socially awkward, difficult,
quirky kids coming out as trans.
And then suddenly they're very popular you
know it's you get love bombed you get you know
all the likes and the comments on social media and suddenly the kid is very
popular in a certain circle and it's like they find their tribe this kid who's

(15:49):
been isolated who's had a really hard time and has never really been able to
make friends coming out as trans gives them their tribe it gives them them,
this group of people who are accepting and celebrating them.
But the trouble is they're celebrating a version of them that's not real.
They're celebrating the trans identity.
And we all know what happens if you desist or detransition or whatever,

(16:16):
you are out, you're gone.
So then there's a really strong motivation to stay identifying as trans.
And that comes with the risk of hormonal and surgical interventions.
That comes at the cost of future fertility, it comes at the cost of the future
chance of intimacy, it even comes at the cost of body parts.

(16:37):
There's the social side of it. And then I think there are just particular autistic
traits that make the autistic child more at risk.
And one of them is very much this rigid thinking, this black and white thinking.
So like blue for boys, pink for girls.
If I'm a boy who likes pink, it makes sense that I'm a girl because girls like

(17:01):
pink. There's a very rigid black and white way of thinking.
Autistic kids can really struggle to express how they're feeling,
to describe how they're feeling.
And I think if they're just being bombarded with the wrong messaging,
if you think about the type of messaging that they're receiving in schools.

(17:22):
They're being told that if they like certain things, that could be that they're trans.
They're being told that it's possible to be a boy with a girl brain.
It's possible to be a girl with a boy brain. This insane messaging,
none of which is based even remotely, in fact, can just untether the vulnerable

(17:44):
autistic child when they really need what they need is grounding in reality.
And they need more time to grow up as well.
Like the autistic adolescent is going to struggle much more with their developing sexual body.
And again, because they're struggling and then one of the symptoms of being

(18:05):
transgender is hatred of your secondary sex characteristics.
Of course, again, they're going to be more at risk because they will be very
uncomfortable in their bodies while they're changing so much.
I mean, to be honest, though, straying from autism, basically every single adolescent
could diagnose themselves as being transgender.

(18:27):
Right. What what kid going through puberty loves their secondary sex characteristics?
What what kid is comfortable with their developing body?
So really, every kid is at risk. But yeah, the autistic ones are very at risk. Yeah, they are.
And I know myself, just with the pressures of...

(18:50):
Trying to fit in as a youth and then also finding myself to be quite gay on the side,
but then not liking that about myself somewhat for spiritual reasons and somewhat
just for the growing pains of moving into society and having to reintroduce
yourself to the world and be known with this attached to you.

(19:13):
Had the whole lgbtqqia plus
thing menu been an option i think that would have been really detrimental for
me because even at one point i did identify as asexual even before that whole
thing was and that was just a way for me to like ignore all sexuality to kind of know i'm just like

(19:36):
this angelic being who's transcended sexuality, and I just don't see it.
But had that 80 varietals of queerism been available, maybe I would have just
flown one of those banners and then called it a day.
So yeah, it's definitely a social contagion that's influencing susceptible minds.

(19:58):
I mean, as well, the future homosexual adults, the kids who would otherwise
grow up to be gay, are some of the most at risk, right?
Because extreme gender nonconformity in childhood is a very strong indicator
of future homosexuality.

(20:20):
And yet one of the symptoms of childhood onset gender dysphoria,
one of the signs of a trans kid, is extreme gender nonconformity.
It's extreme gender nonconforming behavior.
We always point to Jazz Jennings. The, you know, we have a whole reality TV

(20:41):
show documenting the abuse of Jazz Jennings.
But yeah, the kids who would otherwise grow up to be gay are some of the ones who are most at risk.
Yeah, they definitely are. So in conjunction with the autism,
with the confusion of the gay thing,
and then you've got the other mental

(21:03):
disorders that could come from or be supplemented by drugs, medicine,
either medicines causing other side effects or because of their situation,
they're taking these medicines, which could then interact negatively with their procedures.
What kind of things did you find in your reporting that maybe looked like a

(21:25):
negligence in overlooking some of those issues?
Pre-existing factors in so in
the w path files what what is glaringly
obvious is that no one inside w
path cares about how the the transgender identity has formed basically they

(21:47):
the starting point for these people is if a person says they are trans then
they are trans and then you go from there.
If they wish to have hormones and surgeries, then they should have them because
it's their human right. It's basically a human right.
So there was absolutely no interest and no curiosity into what could have led

(22:15):
to the formation of this identity.
Because for them, of course, I understand why. And it's because to them,
gender dysphoria, gender identity, gender incongruence, whatever you want to
call it, it's not a mental illness.
So it's a perfectly natural, healthy state of being that just so happens to
require hormones and surgeries.

(22:36):
So they're not really interested in how it forms because it's not an illness,
it's something to celebrate.
And so time and time again in the files, you see just very complex cases.
These are These are people who have very complex mental health profiles being

(22:58):
allowed to consent to hormones or surgery.
There'll be people with, you know, dissociative identity disorder.
I mean, I could go off on a tangent about that because I really I like the multiple
personality disorder epidemic, but it's back and it's dissociative identity disorder.
And it has met the modern trans rights movement. It has met the gender medicine movement.

(23:24):
And so you've got someone in there saying, you know.
If somebody has dissociative identity disorder, which means they think that they have multiple,
distinct personalities living within their body, if somebody has this,
they're called alters, then you've got to make sure that you get consent from
all of the alters before they start hormones.

(23:46):
Otherwise, you could be sued later because you haven't really gained true informed consent.
You know, absolutely bonkers, just totally mad. Make sure that,
because like if somebody's got, If they're in a male body and they want to transition
to female using estrogen,
well, you've got to make sure that all of the male alters and the female alters agree to the hormones.

(24:07):
Just madness. Instead of deep psychotherapeutic work to figure out what's going
on, because with this dissociative identity disorder, there's often trauma in the background.
The person is dissociating for a reason. There's usually trauma.
And again, there are people in there with PTSD.
There are people in there with major depressive disorder, schizophrenia, bipolar.

(24:31):
And every single time somebody comes along with this really complicated case
and says, I'm not really sure what to do with this patient.
Patient the chorus of people who come along basically
say i don't see why why you
would i don't know why you would deny this person hormones i
don't know why you're perplexed and and they encourage medical

(24:52):
transition it's it's basically a forum where they're all egging each other on
and i should point out that i'm not really well i've spoken to medical professionals
since and And while I was writing the report to find out how do doctors talk in private,
maybe this is how doctors engage when they're discussing patients,

(25:14):
but it's not. It's apparently not at all.
And the reason I think the WPATH files are so interesting and what makes WPATH
itself a very interesting organization is it's a hybrid organization in that there are surgeons.
Endocrinologists, family doctors, medical professionals, and then your mental health professionals.

(25:38):
You've got psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, and they're all in there
talking about patients.
But as well, you've got a strong cohort and rather vocal cohort of trans activists,
non-medical people, the human rights lawyers, and basically they just seem to
to be transgender people who have an interest in gender medicine,

(26:01):
anyone can join and then anyone can participate in these conversations.
So of course, I don't think doctors can really talk.
Properly amongst themselves when they've got very extreme trans activists in
there who are almost fanatic about,

(26:22):
well, no, they are not almost, they are fanatic about the transition as a human
right, hormones and surgeries. It's a human right.
And if you show caution, then that's bigotry, That's discrimination.
Gatekeeping or what we would call safeguarding, also transphobic.

(26:43):
We don't want any gatekeeping.
It's hormones and surgeries for everyone.
And because these activists are in there mixed in with surgeons and endocrinologists,
you just have this culture of everybody egging each other on no matter how complex
the mental health profile is.
Or there's even, there's one where a Yale, she's at Yale University Med School

(27:08):
and she shows up and she's a practicing physician as well.
And she shows up and she's got a 13 year old developmentally delayed kid who
has already been on puberty blockers for about two years.
And the professor, the physician is like, I'm not really sure when or if ever
this kid will reach a developmentally appropriate stage to consent to hormones.

(27:35):
And again, along come a whole bunch of people just saying, oh,
yeah, it's fine. Let the let the kid have hormones.
There's no one for whom hormones and surgeries are inappropriate, it would seem.
Yeah. Wow.
When you're...
Talking in terms of taking and allowing kids, like you said,

(27:59):
that probably have anything from, they're on the autism spectrum,
they probably have multiple personality disorders of some kind.
They probably have some other mental illness and they're probably in drugs for all of it.
And yet they're being allowed to consent to operations,
operations which, you know, to which like getting a tattoo on your back like

(28:23):
pales in comparison, because you're literally removing appendages or altering
the location of things in your body.
And you can't question any of that then like
you said you have this clicky little culty area
of the medical industry where you've got activists blended with mad scientist

(28:44):
types and somewhere in the midst we are supposed to be filtering out kids who
shouldn't be there which there's just no protocol for that.
That's what I'm gathering. And so in some of the things that I've seen in the
WPATH files and that you've talked about, we see physicians who are actively

(29:08):
concerned about the state of their patients.
And sometimes it even seems like they're concerned themselves,
but they still are proceeding forward and disregarding certain of these things
because Because it's protocol,
because the culture of like you're talking about gender affirming,
the gender affirming model.

(29:30):
What kind of lawsuits do you think will eventually be opened up because of this sort of negligence?
The lawsuits will be legion. There's no question about it. We're still in the early stages.
I think we're probably at the beginning of the end of this medical scandal.

(29:53):
So, part of how I helped myself understand what we're seeing today was to turn
to medical history and to look at times in the past when doctors did terrible
things, thinking that they were helping.
I mean, in almost every medical scandal that has occurred throughout history,

(30:15):
throughout medical history, the doctors always thought they were helping their patients.
They were very misguided and they behaved recklessly without any evidence to
show that what they were doing was safe.
And then the scandal ended in some way. And so lawsuits, I think,
well, there's no question, there can be no question that we're facing malpractice lawsuits.

(30:40):
It's going to be, I don't know if it's as simple as everyone thinks.
It's very difficult to win a malpractice case.
And so we're going to have to, the very difficult part of it is that an individual doctor,
if they are sued for malpractice, they can just say, I was following WPATH.

(31:04):
They can just say, well, the World Professional Association for Transgender
Health said that this treatment protocol was safe and that it was appropriate
for these young patients.
And I just did what they said. And so...
To me, in my mind, I don't, I'm not a legal person, so I don't understand,

(31:26):
but I really, I don't know why we don't have a lawsuit against WPATH itself,
because WPATH fraudulently created,
standards of care, basically.
They, if you look at their standards of care, We're in the version 8,
and it was published in 2022.

(31:48):
It's one hefty document, and on the surface, it looks legitimate.
You can see why people, well, actually, no, for the standards of care 8,
actually, I can't see how people were fooled because that's the one with the
infamous eunuch chapter.
This is a supposedly world-leading, respectable healthcare group that included

(32:10):
an entire chapter on eunuch as a valid gender identity deserving of hormonal
and surgical castration.
So in standards of care eight, there was very clear red flag,
do not trust this organization.
And yet still all across North America, health authorities, gender clinics,
trust the eunuch people.

(32:31):
But you can understand in the other chapters how it looks like real science,
because you can have a whole chapter with hundreds of citations,
scientific literature to back up every statement that they're making.
And it's only when you go in and you check the citations that you realize,
goodness me, it's all garbage junk science.

(32:51):
There's no actual real science here whatsoever.
There are no controlled studies.
There's no long-term follow-up. There's nothing that resembles real science.
It's all just these silly, no follow-up, or they've lost 70% of the patients,
or self-report, everyone's like, oh yeah, I feel great afterwards.

(33:13):
It's not real science at all.
In my mind, somebody has got to go after WPATH. Like they've gone after,
there's a lawsuit in Rhode Island.
It's a detransitioner. She was treated horrendously.
And the lawyers have also named the
American Academy of Pediatrics in the

(33:33):
lawsuit because the American Academy of Pediatrics
in 2018 produced an absolutely junk position
statement endorsing gender affirming care
absolutely devoid of any science misrepresenting entire
bodies of literature that were done on adult
sexuality and then they just applied it to kids with supposed gender identity

(33:56):
mismatched gender identities so the the the american academy of pediatrics is
already named in a lawsuit and i think w path ought to be as well because they made very strong
recommendations for a treatment protocol that is irreversible,
extremely brutal.
It's as harsh as cancer treatment. They strongly recommended that kids be placed

(34:20):
onto this pathway while at the same time knowing that they had no science whatsoever to back it up.
I think on a long enough timeline, and also here's the other thing that I think
everyone needs to do, and some states have done it.
I really should look up which ones, but this increasing the statute of limitations.

(34:40):
One of the reasons we don't have very many detrans lawsuits is because in most
places, the statute of limitations is two years.
So you've only got two years to file. If a doctor harms you in some way,
you've only got two years to file the lawsuit.
Detransition can take, you know on average eight to

(35:01):
ten years so two states
have done it already i think where they've opened up the statute of
limitations to 30 years after the young person
turns 18 and i think for all gender affirming care so-called that's not even
just for minors that should be the case for all gender medicine be they an adult

(35:23):
a minor whatever open it up so you've got instead of two years,
you've got 30 years to sue.
And then if these gender doctors are so confident that nobody regrets their
decision and they are only transitioning the people for whom medical transition
is the right approach, they've got nothing at all to worry about.

(35:45):
And of course, they have an awful lot to worry about because I think I predict
that most of these young people transitioning in this social contagion will
on a long enough timeline detransition because,
not one of them well not one of them is really trans.

(36:06):
Wow. So, you know, you said several interesting things there.
And I just want to get back to one of the last things that you had said.
You know, if we did, for instance, have a policy or law where it was possible
for a patient to sue a doctor 30 years after they'd become 18,
with regards to the malpractice of the whole gender transformation thing shouldn't

(36:32):
have happened, And it kind of
makes me think, you know, go to think about the crux of the whole issue.
Because if you think about like a person who goes to get a tattoo and then they
look at that tattoo a year, two years or 30 years later, and they're like,
I shouldn't have gotten this tattoo.
They can't go back to the tattoo artist and complain because they chose what they chose.

(36:56):
But the interesting thing here is we have patients who are, A,
under 18, which generally you don't have with tattoos, and B,
not only are they not giving informed consent, they are not because they can't.
And I understand part of that is they can't simply because the whole promise
of just changing genders is impossible to begin with.

(37:19):
So it seems like you know with a
policy like that every doctor would be just a
sitting duck for the mood swing of of a
patient and since that's the only thing they have to go by since they
can't really diagnose it except through this confession
is it ever safe for a
doctor to do this sort of thing though now i

(37:42):
i'm definitely i skew more
on the extreme on this on
this question because i
i do not think that this is medicine okay so if you look at the history of gender

(38:02):
medicine it's always been very dubious it started you know the first attempted
sex reassignment was in 1906,
and then a whole lot of very dubious experimentation,
never any solid science.
Never any randomized control trials, never any long-term follow-up,

(38:24):
never any proof that this is a safe, effective, beneficial medical treatment.
And certainly for me, when I think medicine, I think first do no harm.
So I think doctors are tasked with healing and alleviating suffering.

(38:46):
Now, of course, that's where this comes in. These gender medicine doctors will
say they are alleviating suffering, the suffering of the gender dysphoric person. But.
To me, the surgeries, well, first and foremost, they take a perfectly healthy
functioning endocrine system and they destroy it.

(39:08):
OK, it's not nothing to with puberty blockers to just shut down the whole endocrine
system the way that they do. That's not nothing.
It's not nothing to prescribe large doses of wrong sex hormones.
The female body is not designed for large doses of testosterone.
The male body is not designed for large quantities of estrogen.

(39:32):
And again, we have no long-term studies to say that this is safe.
And we do have some studies to show that actually it's not very safe at all.
There are very detrimental effects to the health. This is called iatrogenesis.
The treatment causes illness, and that's what we're doing.
We're taking healthy, functioning bodily systems, and we're destroying them.

(39:56):
And then on to the surgeries. You know, inverting a man's penis,
creating a wound that must be dilated for life,
that comes with a very high complication rate, and again, impacts his entire health.
You castrate a man and you invert his penis, that's going to have wide-ranging

(40:21):
repercussions on that man's health for the rest of his life.
I'm almost lost for words at what they're doing to women, the women who undergo the phalloplasty.
I cannot believe that phalloplasty is legal, to be honest.
This is where the surgeon will strip the skin, harvest the skin of a woman's

(40:47):
forearm, and then fashion it into something resembling a penis and sew it onto her groin.
Astronomical complication rates. And honestly, how does that help?
How does that help a mentally ill woman who is obviously not in a good place in life?
How is it going to help her to have an appendage made out of her forearm sewn onto her groin.

(41:14):
So I find myself in the place where I simply don't believe it's medicine because
medicine doesn't destroy health.
I think it looks like medicine. It uses the tools and the techniques of medicine,
but for the purpose of destroying healthy bodies.

(41:35):
And we do not have any good quality science to show that the outcome for these
people, that it resolves their gender distress.
We simply don't have it. We have a whole lot of really bad studies where they
ask transgender people, are you happy? And all the happy ones say, yes, I'm happy.

(41:56):
And then they say, well, then this must be a really good medical treatment.
But we don't have, what you need is is the real long-term follow-up.
Don't lose any of the patients.
Follow up 100% of them and find out what became of them.
And only then will we know if it's beneficial and if it's helping the people
resolve their gender-related distress, which is supposedly the whole point.

(42:22):
I'm not convinced that it is. And then there's another layer to it, and that is,
I talk about it in the the report how self-report in this field of medicine
or any field of medicine really, but in this field particularly,
self-report is not an accurate way to assess whether the treatment was appropriate or beneficial or not.

(42:47):
Because imagine you are one of these people, imagine you are someone who has
made the decision to undergo vaginoplasty.
You've had your penis inverted, you're on estrogen.
And you made that decision because you were absolutely convinced that it was going to make you happy.

(43:08):
And so you get to the end of it, even if it hasn't made you happy,
you are going to be very psychologically motivated to tell yourself every single
day that you are happy and that you made the right decision. Because.
Imagine otherwise. Imagine having to face up.

(43:28):
Detransitioners will tell you how hard that moment was of facing up to the fact
that they made a mistake.
And then you realize what you've done to your body.
You realize everything that you've sacrificed. So we know this from other studies.
The more you put into something, the more difficult it is to achieve something

(43:51):
or to acquire something, the more likely you are that you will tell yourself
it was the right decision.
It's basic psychology. And so these people have paid the ultimate,
they've paid an enormous price.
They've put in so much. I don't think asking them at the end of it,
are you happy, is a scientific method of measuring whether this is an appropriate treatment or not.

(44:19):
I'm not sure if I answered your question. I think I've actually forgotten what the question was.
No. Yeah. Well, my question was related to whether or not it was ever really,
I think, appropriate for a doctor to do these things,
since there's really no conditions under which a child can give any kind of
consent, let alone informed consent.

(44:40):
Well, I mean, OK, for a child, absolutely not. Never, ever, ever.
We need to get rid of all child transition.
And I mean that in social transition, puberty blockers, hormones and surgeries.
Absolutely all of that must be banned and it will be.

(45:02):
We're getting to the end of that part of the scandal. scandal but where
i'm a little bit more extreme i think is when it
when it applies to adults as well this is not
medicine i'm not saying we should ban it i'm just saying it's not
medicine and you know plenty of
people were happy with the results of their loved
ones lobotomy right like families who made the

(45:23):
decision to get their loved one lobotomized and then they're looking after a
permanently disabled person who is in a childlike state of dependency the family
were often you know they would report being happy with the fact that they'd
had their loved one lobotomized because they couldn't look at the mistake that they'd made.
They couldn't admit to themselves that they'd made a mistake.

(45:44):
And so just because some people are happy, it doesn't mean this is real medical
care that we should be offering.
But we are in this situation where some people think that it is the only thing
that will make them happy.
So I don't actually advocate for a total ban.

(46:04):
I just think one day it's probably going to end up alongside lobotomies as one
of those terrible medical misadventures that we never should have allowed to happen.
Absolutely. You know, one of the primary focuses of Gays Against Groomers is
particularly with regards to how children are affected by the trans propaganda,

(46:29):
the queer ideology, all of that.
And even for adults, one of our members and former chapter lead here in Arizona,
who now has a film that's coming out called Leaving Amy,
Matt Ray, was 28 years old when she, or I think it was actually 25 when she became he.

(46:53):
And now at the age of 32, Matt's a year into trying to detransition,
something that it's not really going to be possible.
Like the physical appearance and all of this stuff is permanent,
even if Matt understands Matt's self to be Amy.
So there is that whole you can't

(47:14):
go back. And even an adult can make that decision, that wrong decision.
And so how much easier is it for kids? So it's just kind of tremendous because,
you know, at the level of what you're talking about, it affects really so many
adult particular in particular.
And with as bad as it is, it's just so much worse for kids. It's hard to even

(47:35):
think about, but it's a growing trend.
And so, yeah, it would be amazing to see that end for some sort of common sense
regulation to come in and say, like you said, this isn't medicine.
It's not medicine. It's not even, when I was talking to Dr.
Eitan Heim a few episodes back, that's also one of the things that he said.

(47:58):
It's not like cosmetic surgery where you were altering the nose to look like a different nose.
You're completely removing a body part and putting the substitute alternative thing there.
So this really is turned into a freak show of sorts.
Or it's turning, you know, when you look at all of the terrible things that

(48:20):
come out of botched up surgeries and the way people really come out looking
because their mental health and everything.
What other kind of things would you hope would change?
You know, let's say there is a major lawsuit against WPATH and all of a sudden
the rules change, there's regulations now.

(48:42):
Now, what would be some of the major regulations that you think would be put
into place if WPATH weren't running the show?
I think if WPATH were, I mean, to be honest, they don't have to be sued out
of existence, although that would be wonderful.
They just they need to be thoroughly discredited and nobody,
nobody should be listening to them.

(49:04):
And I think once the medical world rids itself of the influence of WPATH,
it can go back to evidence-based medicine.
It can go back to respecting the scientific process,
basing its recommendations on real evidence, not just this ideologically driven

(49:27):
movement that really has no respect whatsoever for the scientific process and evidence.
They just don't care about it at all. So I think...
Without WPATH, there could be this shift back to the first thing that has to happen is gender.

(49:48):
I struggle to even know what to call it.
We've got gender dysphoria and we've got gender incongruence of the two diagnoses
at this point, but they're just nonsense diagnoses anyway.
Gender identity disorder was probably the best one.
Whatever you want to call it, let's take it back to being a psychiatric disorder,

(50:08):
which it clearly is. Okay.
WPATH were front and center in convincing the American Psychiatric Association
to redefine gender identity disorder to gender dysphoria so that that makes
the mismatched gender identity is not a psychiatric condition.

(50:31):
So if you can shift it back the other way, if the medical world can just get rid of WPATH,
forget about their recommendations and go back to looking at gender identity
disorder or whatever as a psychiatric disorder in need of mental health support,
the aim of treatment should always be to help the person reconcile with the reality of their body.

(50:59):
WPath's influence made it that doing that
trying to help the person overcome their gender
dysphoria that's conversion therapy that's you
know that's that's the equivalent of gay
conversion therapy which is madness of course taking it
back to the aim should always be to
avert the need for lifelong medical intervention the the the doctors should

(51:24):
always be least invasive first focusing on mental health care and trying to
do everything that they can to avert the need for hormones and surgeries.
There's, I really like, I talk about this in the report.
In the 2000s, there was a consultant psychiatrist called Dr.

(51:46):
Az Hakim at the Portman Clinic in London, which is the adult part attached to the Tavistock.
We all know the Tavistock, the infamous youth gender service that has been the
center of much controversy and is now closed down.
So as was in the portman clinic
and i think he hit on the

(52:09):
solution that we need to now if we can abandon
w path and we can abandon this gender affirming model of care and we can go
into a softer landing we don't need to ban this whole medical experiment but
just a softer landing would be what as did at the portman and that is he he
when he first got there he had two groups of people

(52:32):
he had people at the beginning
of the transition they desired medical transition
and they were really euphoric that this was going to be the answer it would
solve all of their problems hormones and surgeries would solve all of their
problems and then he had another group of people and they were the post-op regretters

(52:52):
and he said that they were basically it was just abject misery
and despair because their fantasy remedy, their fantasy solution had not quite
lived up to the fantasy and they realized that they'd made a terrible mistake.
And what he did is he put the two groups together and he found that those who

(53:15):
were wanting to transition,
98% of them did not ultimately transition because he brought them face to face
with the truth, the reality, rather than the fantasy.
And that's part of the problem, I think, is no one's ever allowed to talk about

(53:36):
the terrible side effects.
Detransition as a silenced anyone who has a bad outcome well it's just don't
talk about it because you don't want to be transphobic and put people off but
bringing them face to face letting them have realistic.
Expectations let them these people wanting to transition we still have to offer

(53:57):
it because we've we let the genie out of the bottle and there are people who
really do think that it is going to save their life but bring them face to face
with the reality of what medical transition can and cannot do.
And then I think you'll find that the vast majority would not choose to go down that medical pathway.

(54:17):
I think that's where we can go if we can get rid of the WPATH,
the fanatic, ideologically driven style of medicine that nobody's allowed to
talk about the downside at all. It's all like a fantasy.
You know, exactly. And a question I want to ask you ties in directly with that.

(54:38):
I just wanted to real quick mention that you're going to be participating in
Leaving Amy. Isn't that right?
That's right. Okay. So I just talked to Matt and Jude, and then they mentioned
that I kind of just forgot about it until just now.
So that film, leavingamy.com is where the trailer's at.

(54:59):
Mia is going to be in that, and she's going to be amazing. So look forward to that.
What I want to ask you about is kind of broad and general, but it ties in with
this. In a word, subversion of language.
We have definitions changing left and right, words you're allowed to say and words you cannot say.

(55:19):
How do you think the control of language is really controlling how all of this
is playing out right now?
I think when we were forbidden from naming reality, that's when all of this
madness plunged to new depths.

(55:41):
So I think if we had always been allowed to speak freely,
to call men men and to call women women,
and to describe these surgeries as for what they are rather than the euphemistic,
you know, the top surgery and the bottom surgery and all the rest of it,

(56:02):
I think we would not be in this mess.
So it's certainly the attack
on free speech and the control of our language and the viciousness with which
all of the most minor of indiscretions would be viciously punished by trans rights activists.

(56:27):
Activists, anyone dare use the wrong pronouns, they'll get attacked.
Or if they call a man a man, they'll get attacked.
It created a climate of fear in which no one dared to stand up for these kids.
So many people were...

(56:49):
They I think a lot of people saw what was happening and just were too afraid to say anything.
And I think maybe there's a wider circle of people who, because of the control
of language, because everybody was afraid to name reality, everybody was afraid

(57:10):
to really talk about what was happening.
There's a much wider circle of people who simply didn't know that this was happening.
So this is a medical scandal that has been unfolding in plain view of the world for over a decade.
Those of us who could see it happening have been trying to raise the alarm.

(57:34):
The control of speech has meant that an awful lot of people were too afraid
to say anything. thing, people in the medical world, people in education,
because it's really crucial to understand how central the role of schools is
in this medical scandal.
Like all of this nonsense, all of these bad ideas, these dangerous ideas are
being thrust upon kids in school.

(57:55):
And then teachers, they're afraid to say something because they have their,
you know, their thought and their language is being controlled by school boards
that are infected by this ideology, this poisonous ideology.
And then the wider community, nobody dares say anything.

(58:15):
Everybody's not really sure what's going on. So the control of language is crucial
to what has happened to these young people.
If we had all been allowed to speak freely from the beginning,
I do not believe anywhere near as many young people would have been harmed.

(58:36):
And then I do think part of it But obviously there has been cowardice on the
part of the wider public, you know, that we, many of us just stood by and allowed
it to happen to these kids.
But then if you look at it, like the average teacher or the average person,
they have, you know, you have bills to pay, you have a mortgage, you have a family.

(59:00):
If these people will go after you, they'll go after your job,
they'll financially ruin you if you say the wrong pronouns or if you use the
wrong language, you can kind of understand why everybody was so afraid to speak up.
So when all this is over, we of course are going to be blaming the medical professionals,

(59:22):
but we must not forget the role that the trans activists played in silencing all questions.
And silencing dissent and viciously attacking anyone who raised the alarm.
Definitely the control of language is huge.
Yeah, we went from, you know, you got to be politically correct,

(59:46):
you got to be PC, to if that's a microaggression, whatever that side look was, to hate speech,
you just said something I don't like, you're canceled.
So, yeah, we definitely have moved down that 1984 route.
And the subversion of speech, the changing of language is the means by which

(01:00:09):
they've been able to really castrate, in a way, the general public.
Particularly you know like you
said we have a large you know portion of the population which
somewhere between being apathetic or lazy
or maybe cowardice to speak out have
actually become in a sense verbally neutered and like they can't even you know

(01:00:33):
collect the words together to articulate without offending somebody of what's
going on so we're very far removed from that that common sense shared understanding.
That kind of brings me to my next question, which is where does or did,
you know, I'm looking at it as like this dying monster right now,

(01:00:56):
but where does WPATH get its authority?
They're self-appointed, to be honest. I would
say they self-identify identify
as a world-leading healthcare group
it's really i think it's a
remarkable stunt that they pulled basically so in the early days you know they

(01:01:19):
used to be called the harry benjamin international gender dysphoria association
hibigda the hibigda formed in 1978 and you know they're They're all doing their very obscure science,
whatever, research.
And then around the turn of the century, around the year, the late 90s,

(01:01:40):
early 2000s, that's when the modern trans rights movement gets started,
sort of running parallel with Hibigda.
And then a whole bunch of activists join Hibigda. And then from that point on,
the two sort of evolve together, the trans rights movement and Hibigda, WPATH.
But then in 2007, they go for the full rebrand.

(01:02:03):
They call themselves the World Professional Association for Transgender Health,
which honestly, it's just basically they have just self-identified as a world
leading health care group.
They still don't have any science. They're still basically at this point very
much a political activist group with no science whatsoever. But from the moment

(01:02:26):
that they self-identify as this world-leading group.
Everybody looks to them. They publish these standards of care.
They influence all the standards of care and all the guidelines of all the major medical associations.
And so at the center of it all is an empty shell where there's no science whatsoever.

(01:02:49):
But because WPATH influenced the Endocrine Society guidelines and then the Endocrine
society guidelines influence WPATH guidelines.
And then from there, it just sort of balloons out into this complex web of medical
associations endorsing each other.
They're just saying, okay, well, WPATH says this, so we're going to say it too.

(01:03:14):
And then WPATH comes along and WPATH says, well, all of these medical associations,
they say that it's good, so it must be good.
And they're They're all endorsing each other, but in the middle,
there really is an empty shell. There's nothing in there at all.
So it's basically, they just appointed themselves as the authority.

(01:03:38):
And you can see it. You can see how pointless they are. You can see how obsolete the organization is.
If you look to Europe, so in North America, all of the major medical associations
do indeed indeed endorse WPATH's style of gender-affirming care.
But look to Europe. They've abandoned WPATH.

(01:04:00):
I don't think there's any nation in Europe still looking to WPATH,
maybe one or two, but Sweden and Finland and England, Norway,
Denmark, Belgium, France, they're all...
They've all just abandoned WPATH. They've looked at the evidence.
They're now being guided by evidence.
They're not being guided by, you know, fake science like we are in North America.

(01:04:24):
And they're doing just fine. And then the people, the trans-identified people
in Europe are going to still receive health care,
but it's going to be health care based on actual science rather than just this
politically motivated pseudoscience that we have here.
Him yeah i think it's

(01:04:44):
really concerning that you can just kind of put you know
the national association or whatever
on whatever club and all of a sudden you're it because you know you named yourself
the most general title you can and and yet they're still peddling around their

(01:05:05):
ideology as to get kicked out of one town, one country after another.
And it kind of makes you wonder, okay, you know, what is the real ambition?
Like, what's the real end goal or the hope of this organization?
Like, vending machine transitions?
Like, we want an on-demand, instantly, you walk in, no regrets,

(01:05:27):
it's done, inpatient, outpatient.
So, because this is a really upsetting subject to be involved in,
so what is the motivation for the leadership on the board of this organization to keep doing this?
Obviously, they're getting a paycheck, and somebody's paying that.

(01:05:48):
Have you seen any indications based on financing that could indicate whose interests
this organization is mostly serving? No.
I did not dig into the follow the money side of it. I don't know if you've heard
of the journalist Jennifer Billick.
She does the 11th Hour blog. She's done so much digging into the finance aspect

(01:06:14):
of this, who's funding it all.
I personally, from spending so long immersed in the world of WPath,
I am convinced that this is being driven by ideology.
Definitely, of course, there's a financial incentive and there are people in

(01:06:36):
there who are in there because they're making a whole ton of money.
But I think primarily what drives this is ideology.
I think it is the people,
the inside WPath right now are absolutely convinced that they are the good guys,

(01:06:59):
that they are on this quest to make the world a better place,
to provide necessary.
Life-saving health care to a vulnerable, discriminated group in the world.
Society i do not believe that
they're in there most of them anyway because

(01:07:22):
they're making money i think it makes them more dangerous
that they're motivated by this quest
this this sort of self-righteous quest because
they therefore absolutely cannot see the harm at that point If you are convinced
that hormones and surgeries is the only answer to gender-related distress,

(01:07:49):
and if you are convinced that it is a human right for a person to modify their
body in whatever way they choose to align with their inner gender essence.
Then you're not going to be able to see the truth.
You're not like if you're convinced that.

(01:08:11):
Restricting access to this treatment protocol is a human rights violation.
It's transphobia. It's discrimination.
You're not going to be able to see, like the almost 400-page CAS report that
came out last week or the week before.

(01:08:32):
This was an independent review of the Youth Gender Service in England.
This was a very meticulously researched document, chock full of the findings
of systematic reviews of the evidence and everything.
And the way it has been received by WPATH and the supporters of gender-affirming

(01:08:54):
care is they're accusing this independent review of being politically motivated.
They're suggesting that it's motivated by transphobia and discrimination and
bigotry. And that is, I don't think that's them panicking because they think
they're going to lose their paycheck.
I think that is actually coming from a genuine place where they exist in a very

(01:09:19):
insulated bubble of ideology, it's political activism.
Activism anything that calls into question the treatment protocol that they
that they that they endorse must be because of transphobia it must be because
of bigotry and so it makes them much more dangerous i think.

(01:09:41):
I totally agree with you. You know, like ideology will take you to like that
guy who just lit himself on fire, you know, in front of the Trump trial.
It'll take you to those levels, you know, paychecks, not so much like,
you know, you'll sell out on somebody, you'll, you know, there's,
you'll do a lot less for money than you will.
I think, you know, for a cause you really believe in.

(01:10:03):
And on one hand, I would hope that everybody involved in that cause genuinely
does have the, you know, the general welfare of the public in mind and at heart?
And is there a true intention to do good?
You know, and obviously, both sides of the argument can't be right,
even though both sides, I think,
feel like, you know, they're trying to do what's best for everybody.

(01:10:26):
But on the other hand, you know, we do have, I think, that creeping awareness
that something isn't all right with the procedures as they've been going.
And it's kind of like this confirmation bias you've been pointing to.
It's like once you've made the decision, you've gone the route,

(01:10:47):
hey, you can't go back now.
To say you made a mistake would be to admit a very terrible thing.
So, you know, and so part of my question was actually aimed at,
you know, the hopes that, That somebody's conscience couldn't be so seared that seeing all of this,
they would still pursue it as this quest that they need to, at some point, it's like,

(01:11:13):
oh, wait, maybe this quest isn't a worthy quest. Maybe we need to settle down here.
Question here, based on your findings in the reporting, what area do you think
we need to put a microscope over and look into a little bit deeper?
I would say it should be the detrimental side effects of cross-sex hormones.

(01:11:38):
So when we talked earlier about the liver tumors, this case of a young girl,
16-year-old girl with liver tumors, that's only one aspect of it.
A really distressing part of the report for me to write was the discussions

(01:11:58):
about the detrimental effects of testosterone on the female reproductive system.
So WPATH, the way WPATH speaks to the public and the way that they present gender
affirming care to the public, they will present it as medically necessary,
life-saving care that improves the health and well-being of transgender people.

(01:12:21):
And there's very little discussion about how harsh.
Testosterone is, how devastating the side effects of testosterone can be for the female body.
And so in the files, there's a discussion about, it's a 17-year-old girl,

(01:12:42):
she's been on testosterone for a few years, and I think she showed up in the
emergency room. She has pelvic inflammatory disease.
She has vaginal and uterine atrophy.
There's bleeding, there's cracking, there's discharge.
And the person who posts about her says, you know, she has the discharge that

(01:13:04):
we commonly see as a result.
Like this is a common side effect of testosterone that I don't think,
well, I think part of the reason we're not talking about it is because we do
tend to shy away from unpleasant conversations.
This is, can you imagine CNN reporting on a girl ending up in the the emergency

(01:13:26):
room with vaginal atrophy and bleeding and pain.
These are just symptoms and disorders that we don't like to talk about in public.
But because we're not talking about it, and because gender-affirming care is
being sold to young women and teenage girls as being this.

(01:13:50):
Wonderful treatment pathway, if you get on the testosterone,
you're going to feel really great, and it's going to solve all your problems
because we shy away from talking about the really really,
devastating side effects these young women
are consenting to a treatment pathway that
they they do not understand and it's actually i'm talking only about women probably

(01:14:12):
because i am a woman and i understand the the female biology but the men those
are those are common in there like Like there's men on estrogen who are experiencing painful erections.
And one, you know, somebody shows up, well, what should I do about this?
And nobody really knows what to do. It's just a side effect of being on estrogen.

(01:14:34):
And someone shows up and says that she's seen patients having erections that feel like broken glass.
Now, I don't have that piece of anatomy, but I'm going to assume that that's
not that pleasant. And so we've just got to talk about the reality of...

(01:14:56):
All of it, basically. I think when you read these files, when you spend a lot
of time looking at the conversations that these people are having,
I think we've got to just talk about the reality of the treatment pathway.
And I also think that, I don't know if you want to go in this direction,
but I also think we have got to talk about autogynephilia.

(01:15:20):
We have got to talk about,
basically we've just got to talk about
we've got to bring the conversation around to what
is driving the people who want to
transition because right now it's just they
are transgender people and a whole bunch of very disparate groups fall under

(01:15:42):
the umbrella of transgender and they've all got different developmental pathways
some are coming at it because they're homosexual and they have internalized homophobia,
and they don't want to be gay, and they've experienced difficulties.
In their life for being gender non-conforming, and they've come to the conclusion

(01:16:02):
that transition is the answer.
And then you've got the social contagion kids who are just the kids who are
not thriving, and they're growing up in this mad moment in human history where
they're being told that basically all of their pubertal woes are a sign they're transgender,
and they're latching onto this idea.
But then you've got a really strong cohort, a large group of men who are seeking

(01:16:28):
medical transition for erotic purposes.
These are men who are aroused by the image of themselves as women,
and they are seeking medical transition for that purpose.
So another thing we have to do is we have to separate all the groups of people
who are falling under the trans umbrella, And then we can help each group individually,

(01:16:52):
specific to their own very individual needs.
Wow. Yeah, that's very powerful. So autogynephilia. Can you say that again? Autogynephilia.
Autogynephilia. Yes, it literally means love of oneself as a woman.

(01:17:17):
And so it's a paraphilia that it is a man who is aroused by the image of himself as a woman.
He can be aroused by the fantasy of having female bodily functions.

(01:17:38):
So he might find menstruation, the thought of himself menstruating to be arousing,
the thought of childbirth to be arousing.
A very important factor of it is breastfeeding a baby can be arousing.
If you think about that and you take that to its logical conclusion.

(01:17:58):
The men, the trans-identified men, the men who think they're women who are breastfeeding
their babies, because that's actually encouraged now,
if they are autogynephilic, they're living out their sexual fantasy and the
newborn baby is being used as a prop.

(01:18:21):
You can have a debate. There's a debate to be had about whether or not that
is safe for the baby, whether that's acceptable behavior.
I lean towards no, absolutely not. there's
even talk in the WPATH files about
men who want to breastfeed there's one
honestly one of the most outrageous files

(01:18:45):
and I think we may have even found the line for WPATH because nobody responds
to this person there's someone who shows up and they say I've got a assigned
male this is their language, assigned male at birth,
trans feminine client who wishes to take Viagra while breastfeeding.

(01:19:10):
And I can't find any sort of drug interactions,
whether that's safe for this trans feminine male to take Viagra while breastfeeding. And nobody is.
Replies. I think that might even be the line for WPATH. They're like,
whoa, we're not even going to talk about that.

(01:19:32):
But when you think about that, this WPATH member, instead of,
if you've got a man in your clinic who wants to take Viagra while he's breastfeeding
a baby, what you need to do is call Child Protection Services.
You don't need to go into your forum and ask the forum if Viagra is safe while breastfeeding, right?

(01:19:55):
So we've got to talk about autogynephilia. I think it's like crucial to the entire debate.
And again, it's because we're not comfortable talking about fetishes.
I get it. Like I'm not, I know far too much about men and their fetishes at
this point in my life, but we as a society don't really know how to talk about

(01:20:16):
And then, of course, we're forbidden.
The trans rights activists, they deny the existence of autogynephilia.
And the reason for that is very obvious.
And there's a quote by Ray Blanchard. So Ray Blanchard is the sexologist who
came up with the theory of autogynephilia in 1989.
1989 and he explains it perfectly why they forbid us from talking about it and he says.

(01:20:43):
It's one thing for a man to show up at work one day dressed as a woman and for
him to say I'm coming to terms with the fact that I've always been a woman on
the inside and it's quite another for him to show up and say I've moved on from
just masturbating wearing women's clothing to wearing them all the time.
Which one is more socially acceptable? Of course, the modern trans rights movement

(01:21:07):
does not want anyone to know that these men have spent years,
maybe decades, masturbating, wearing women's clothing,
and now they are wearing them full-time and living as a woman.
It's much more palatable, more sanitized for it to be an inner woman essence.

(01:21:28):
Yeah, no, for real. It's, you know, nothing surprises me anymore.
You know, when it comes to fetishes, I guess, you know, it's just like something
can happen. Somebody's can be into it.
And, and, but it is very strange to have, to add into this auto-gynophilia category,

(01:21:50):
the arousal while breastfeeding one's child.
And then you add, like in that example you just gave of that patient who also
wanted to take their Viagra, which we know goes right into the breast milk.
Does it? We don't even know. We don't need to top it up on Viagra. Yeah.

(01:22:13):
So, oh my gosh, what a weird situation we're in.
You know, we're like, oh, they're like half transitioned, you know,
and then all these weird situations come up.
What do you think, in your findings, is probably the worst violation of medical
responsibilities that maybe you saw?

(01:22:36):
For me, no question. It's right towards the end of the report I talk about it.
In the files, there are conversations about non-binary surgeries is the sort of general term.
So this is, everybody thinks non-binary is, you know, silly blue hair and they,

(01:22:58):
them pronouns, but there's a really dark side to it, and that's the surgical side.
So in the files, there are very, very strange conversations about these non-binary surgeries.
There's surgeons in there and there's one, you know, he's talking about how
he's really comfortable doing nullification surgeries.

(01:23:21):
So that's, you know, the person who believes themselves to be neither male nor
female and they want a smooth sexless body, like a Barbie doll or something like a Ken doll.
No, no outward sign of sexual characteristics at all, just a smooth body.
Then there's the opposite of that, which is the people who identify as both

(01:23:42):
male and female, and they want both sets of genitals.
That's called bi-genital surgery so as
we talked about it before if when a
man wants a surgically created vagina they just invert his penis but if he's
a non-binary person both male and female he wants both sets they'll they'll

(01:24:05):
keep he wants to keep his penis and then have a surgically created pseudo-vagina
made out of a part of his colon.
So that's your biogenital surgery. Or on the other side, it would be the woman
who wants an appendage made out of her forearm sewn onto her groin,
but she wants to keep her vagina because she's both male and female.

(01:24:28):
And then, you know, slightly less egregious violation of the Hippocratic Oath
is like this same surgeon will perform mastectomies with customized scars and stuff like that.
We're talking the most, it's just extreme body modification with absolutely
no medical justification whatsoever.

(01:24:49):
And it's not even, you see, at least with the sort of standard sex reassignment,
there was a psychiatric disorder,
gender dysphoria, real distress, and it was a misguided attempt to alleviate that distress.
But now that we have plunged into the realm of the non-binary surgeries,

(01:25:11):
this is not treating gender dysphoria or anything like that.
I think, honestly, it's the demonic union of queer theory and surgery.
Queer theory is all about breaking down the gender binary and smashing the norms and everything.
It's that in the operating theatre.

(01:25:35):
And you really, truly at this point can't call it experimental because in a medical experiment,
somebody cares about which technique is better, which outcome is better.
Should we be doing it it this way or this way.
These surgeons are just, it's the wild west.

(01:25:56):
They've abandoned anything that resembles the Hippocratic oath and they are
just creating whatever the person wants. I don't know if you've heard about this.
We in Canada are the cautionary tale of what happens if you follow WPATH,
you do not question them and all of your health authorities look to WPATH for

(01:26:19):
guidance because we have.
There's a man in Ontario who, one of these men who thinks he's both male and
female, he wants his colon vagina, but he wants to keep his penis.
So he applied to our provincial, we have, you know, our health insurance is
covered by provincial health plans.
He applied for this to the surgery to be done and the health plan said,

(01:26:44):
no, we're not doing that.
So then he appealed and the basis of his appeal was forcing a non-binary person
to go through binary surgery is a form of conversion therapy under our conversion therapy ban.
And remarkably the appeal board
ruled in his favor and then quoted WPATH all

(01:27:07):
the way through they quoted WPATH has a whole chapter
about non-binary surgeries in its
standards of care version 8 that came out in 2022 and
it it talks about these you know phallus preserving vaginoplasties and all the
rest of it and the the the ruling in Ontario quoted you know WPATH about these

(01:27:29):
individually customized bodies and how this is medically necessary care.
So then the health plan appealed the appeal decision.
They said, we're still not paying for it. We're appealing it.
And then he appealed that and he just won again. Last week, he just won.
So now the Ontario taxpayer will not only be paying for his colon vagina alongside his penis,

(01:27:55):
We will also be paying for him to go down to Texas to the notorious Crane Center.
It's a surgical center where they perform these absolutely horrific surgeries.
We'll be paying for him to go and have his colon vagina created in Texas.

(01:28:16):
Wow. You know, there was this episode of South Park some time ago.
You already know which one.
Yeah, the dolphin? Yeah, the guy. I want to be a dolphin.
So they put a fin on him and he's got like all this human skin,
looks all like human centipede type, you know, like Frankenstein horror movie saw thing.

(01:28:37):
Thing and then the one guy's like i want to be a tall black basketball player
so they made him black they broke
his legs and then they stretched out his kneecaps and to make him tall and.
Man it is so insane absolutely insane what people are doing and i you know that
again that's fine to me it's almost as fine as like fine you want to go do body

(01:28:59):
modification or get whatever,
i mean to me it would be like you just ruined your life but you know everybody's
on their own life path and that's whatever.
But, you know, the problem is when you're presenting these options to kids and
then they embark on this and, you know, granted, we can't say much when it comes to adults.

(01:29:21):
You know, the fact that we're at a place of where the technology's there,
where people have that desire to sort of do that, you know, we might not agree
with it, but definitely Definitely, the hard part is how do you keep this,
what the adults are doing from influencing kids?
And obviously, we've set up
an environment that welcomes prospective children into this way of life.

(01:29:47):
I have to say, though, I don't technically agree.
I guess I have, again, the more hardline approach that I don't think we should
be offering this to adults. I just think, you know, this whole adults can do whatever they want.
There's such a thing as medical ethics. Doctors take an oath to first do no harm,

(01:30:11):
and therefore they should not be creating second sets of genitals or stripping
the forearm and sewing an appendage onto a woman's groin.
I just think there is such thing as medical ethics.
And just as I would not support if a consenting adult wanted to have a transorbital

(01:30:31):
lobotomy, if he wanted to have ice picks shoved through his eye socket and fully
consented and understood what was going to happen,
I would not support that because that's a gross violation of medical ethics.
I don't think that if somebody identifies as blind, a surgeon should blind them.
I think there has to be a limit to what these surgeons, they go through a lot of training.

(01:30:57):
They should not be using their hard-won skills to destroy healthy bodies in this way.
And so, no, I think there have to be limits on a person's autonomy and surgeons
must remember their oaths.
Absolutely. I totally agree with you. I mean, the fact is like with most people, my line is.

(01:31:21):
Much further closer to center than, you know, having a thin installed on your back.
Again, that's from a TV show, not in real life, but same, you know,
we're talking about multiple genitalia, making yourself into hermaphrodite or whatever.
Yeah. I definitely draw that line way before that point.

(01:31:42):
And I think the argument, especially with what we do at Gays Against Groomers is,
you know, at least our mission focused angle is that, okay, we're going to focus
on what's affecting the kids.
And the official organizational position is, you know, we're not digging into

(01:32:04):
what adults are doing so much, but personally,
as individuals, we all have our own perspectives and of what's right and wrong in the first place.
And so I would definitely say that I personally agree with you on all of that.
I mean, it is inhuman ultimately.

(01:32:24):
And I think that's what a lot of people are going for. You know,
they feel disassociated. They feel they're non-binary. I'm not of the species.
I'm a toaster oven or whatever their gender identity is. And so, you know, what's next?
Are we going to start like welding iron onto you and polishing up a nice toaster
surface because you're a 1950s toaster after all?

(01:32:48):
And it's just, it's absolutely crazy, but it's happening.
It's dangerous. It's unhealthy.
And, and the effects of it are definitely adding to the whole social contagion
aspect of showing people that they can literally become all these things that

(01:33:08):
are just not what they were born to be.
And we at Gays Against Groomers don't believe that kids are born in the wrong body, for instance.
And it goes right back to what we were talking about. This is psychosomatic.
This is a mental condition. It's a mental health condition, the gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia.

(01:33:29):
And so it should be handled through the maturation of one's psychology,
through personal development, and that sort of thing, through maybe counseling
or therapy, things like that.
And, yeah, it's just as terrible as ever being really offered up as a treatment.
Okay. They call it a treatment for these conditions. So it's definitely not a cure.

(01:33:54):
Anything else you'd like to say? We're getting ready to wrap up here in about
maybe 10 minutes. Is there anything?
On the subject of kids, I think we haven't really gone there yet.
But I think the most important conversation we've got to have,
as far as kids are concerned, is we have got to rid society completely of the

(01:34:17):
concept of the transgender child.
As you just said, no child is born in the wrong body.
Well, beyond that, the gender identity. We've got to rid society of this made-up
concept of the gender identity.
But we really absolutely must bring reality back to childhood,
and we need to make sure that no child is ever taught that reality

(01:34:43):
it's possible to be transgender. We've got to, in schools.
We've got to, in the messaging that kids receive, in books, in television shows,
we have absolutely got to abolish the most dangerous concept in existence,
and that is the concept of the transgender child.
And I think in places where puberty blockers are being banned,

(01:35:06):
there's going to be a bit of a difficult shift because as long as the concept
of the transgender child exists, there will be children, there will be parents
who apply that label to their child.
And there will also be older children like the 9, 10, 11 year olds who will
apply that label to themselves.

(01:35:27):
And any of those kids then are going to need puberty blockers.
They're going to think that they need it because they think they are transgender
and they think they need this medical pathway.
So along with banning puberty blockers, which we all must do,
and that is coming close for most nations, I would say now.
We have got to absolutely rid all of society of this concept of the transgender

(01:35:52):
child and go back to just allowing kids to experiment.
Let kids be kids. Let them play with whatever toys they like.
If he's a boy and he likes Barbies and sparkles, let him be a boy who likes
Barbies and sparkles and get rid of this really regressive, dangerous idea that we let take root.

(01:36:13):
Yeah, absolutely. What do you think in terms of ridding society of this ideology?
You know, we have a lot of momentum already in that direction,
which has put most of the country at sufferance at one point or another.
Whether it's like being bombarded with propaganda or getting screamed at from

(01:36:36):
somebody calling you a homophobe,
transphobe for something thing that i didn't do they really
saturated deep into the roots of society
this ideology the propaganda
the indoctrination and and
these people are being weaponized they're weaponized against all of traditional
society all of everything that makes america a fabulous place to be and free

(01:37:03):
and it's and it's being weaponized in terms of you know very communist type behavior Maoist,
Marxist-type mentality of anarchy
and destruction of the establishment and establishment of any norms.
It's just really taking us into some post-apocalyptic world.

(01:37:23):
World and it almost seems like
the momentum is so great
it's like we got to figure out how to edge ourselves
you know to shimmy ourselves in between where
america hasn't completely completely been rotted out from you know this opposing
force this frying pan run yeah i mean it's hard for me i'm in canada so it's

(01:37:50):
it's hard for me to really i guess on a On a general sense.
Every nation on earth needs to start.
We need to unpick everything that they've done. So they've got decades on us.
This was a rights movement, a very strong movement that did all the groundwork
behind the scenes and then just sort of ready-made things.

(01:38:13):
Thrust this whole system, this
whole ideological belief system onto us and forbid us from questioning it.
So we've got to unpick everything they've done.
It really, I say we've got to get rid of the concept of the transgender child,
but what we've got to get rid of is the concept of gender identity.
And so everywhere that that exists, it needs to be removed.

(01:38:36):
And so that means every school board needs to look at its materials and yank
out any mention of gender identities because it's not true and it's not real
and children deserve a childhood grounded in truth.
But then wherever you've got gender identity written into policy or law,

(01:38:57):
you've got to, you've got to pull it out because it's not real and it doesn't exist.
And it just muddles everything up you
know laws will like you
can only protect biological sex or gender
identity it's an either or situation you absolutely
in law cannot protect both because if your if your spaces are designated for

(01:39:21):
people of a certain sex male or female then you cannot then also separate spaces
based on gender identities.
So prioritizing reality in law and public policy is vital.
Just prioritize biological sex. I think there's still a way.

(01:39:42):
I still remain hopeful that there's a way because there are a lot of people
who have made this decision for themselves.
They have gone down this medical pathway and whether you agree with it or not
that they have gone down this medical pathway.
They have and they exist and we need to find a way to accommodate people who

(01:40:02):
identify as transgender.
But we just also absolutely need to be able to live in reality, describe reality.
Insist upon biological sex and reality being the basis for all law and public policy,
while at the same time ensuring that children get an education that is grounded

(01:40:26):
in truth and doesn't contain any of these absurd ideas about children born in the wrong body,
female brains in male bodies, all of this nonsense that has no grounding in truth.
Truth but it's just i i
see if you look to england i don't know if you follow what's going on
my home country i feel that they
are they're getting there they're almost there

(01:40:48):
like somebody they a whole group of people just signed
a letter calling for a national inquiry into the harm of gender identity ideology
in society basically like look at every layer of society look at the policies
and the laws that were influenced by trans activism,

(01:41:09):
modern trans activism, and investigate how it happened, why it happened, and how can we fix it.
That's basically what we have to do. It's an enormous task, but we have to do it.
Yeah, that has to be done. And I don't think people want to see the truth.
The advocates, the people pushing for this, they don't want to discover what

(01:41:32):
is under the surface of a society that has fully adopted these kinds of policies
and principles and ethics and the whole thing that goes with it.
So one thing I like that you said is, you know, this is a ready-made ideology.
And it really did just kind of pop onto the scene, you know,

(01:41:54):
fully baked handbook, you know, manual in hand.
And here are the structures and the policies and, you know, all of this.
And I think it makes me think of the whole question of like,
where did this whole ideology originate?
And so I often ask myself, did it come out of society? Because,

(01:42:16):
you know, people were just like, I got to be trans and I'm going to speak my
truth and everybody stand up with me?
Or is this coming top down through the influence of corporations in the form
of propaganda and indoctrination in order to popularize the mental illness,
to destabilize the family and humanity and et cetera?

(01:42:37):
It's very complicated. I think there's a few forces at play,
but if you want to, you can actually what I believe you can read the blueprint
of modern trans activism.
That is a book that was published I think in 1994, and it's called The Apartheid

(01:42:58):
of Sex, and it's written by Martin Rothblatt.
Now Rothblatt is a.
Well, I will say, I can't say for sure, but I'm assuming Rothblatt is an autogynephilic man.
And so he's a man who thinks he's a woman, identifies as a woman,

(01:43:20):
and he's also a very wealthy, powerful man.
And I think in the 1990s, well, no, probably the late 1980s,
a group of very powerful wealthy trans identified men and a couple of women to be honest.
They i think they saw the end

(01:43:41):
of the gay rights movement they saw it in the future they they saw that the
the battle for gay rights would be won sometime in the future and they wanted
to be ready for trans rights they decided that trans rights was going to come
next and they wanted to be ready for that.
And so they do all of this behind the scenes. But if you read Rothblatt's book

(01:44:04):
that was published in 1994, honestly, it's basically modern trans activism.
It is this idea that everyone possesses a gender identity and it is your gender
identity that makes you a man or a woman, boy or a girl.
Everyone should have the right to modify their body
medically in whatever way they choose to

(01:44:26):
align themselves with their gender identity there's
talk about step separating spaces so
like i knew you you can access spaces based on your gender identity there's
talk about there's even a weird part where rothblatt sort of he breaks down
all of these little personality traits and gender traits into colors there's

(01:44:48):
like this rainbow everything which is basically like
all the crazy flags and stuff that we have now.
And it's just, he almost pulled it all off.
I mean, they really, what they did then is they, at the same time as Rothblatt's
book, there was something called the International Bill of Gender Rights or

(01:45:08):
something like that, which is basically the same thing.
It is like Rothblatt's book. It's the gender identity and the separating spaces.
And I think you've got male lesbians mentioned as well, like sexuality is now
defined by gender identity rather than.
Reality and then that happens
in the 90s but then in the year 2007 there's

(01:45:32):
another pivotal moment where they take all of
these crazy ideas and there's a meeting in
jojakarta the city of jojakarta in indonesia and it's a bunch of human rights
lawyers trans activists transgender people they all get together and they have
this meeting actually i think it was 2006 and they draw up the the Joja Carter principles,

(01:45:55):
which is again, modern trans activism.
Now it's, it's got, it's official. There are, there are, I can't remember how
many principles, maybe 12 principles.
And it's all about, again, it's about the right to self-identify as a man or
a woman, the right to modify your body based upon your internal gender identity.

(01:46:17):
And, but again, remember None of us knew this was happening.
This is not a grassroots organization where they're standing on the streets
with their placards and they're calling for trans rights and demanding trans rights.
No, they're a bunch of very wealthy, powerful people doing all of these things
behind the scene, laying out all of their demands and all of their principles.

(01:46:39):
And it all looks very legitimate. So that's 2006.
And then you don't start to see it really appear.
I think Ontario, where I live, may have been the first province or first sort
of place to adopt the Joja Carter principles.
We put gender identity into law, into our human rights code in 2012.

(01:47:04):
And then from basically around early 2010s, that's when you really start to see.
The movement get going and all of the groundwork that they've laid,
they've set it all out. They're all really powerful people.
They've set it all out. And then it suddenly starts to appear in laws and in

(01:47:26):
human rights codes all over the world. And then we're off.
And from that point on, They also, it's a very coordinated effort where the
schools, then they all start teaching about these non-existent gender stoles.
They start teaching children that they can be born in the wrong body.
That all happens at the same time.
And then the social contagion is triggered and off we go.

(01:47:50):
The medical world just at the exact same moment happens to lose its mind,
forget the Hippocratic Oath, abandon science, abandon evidence,
and just unleash the puberty blockers experiment,
at the very same moment that the social contagion was triggered by the modern
trans rights movement and its messaging.
It was really, truly the perfect storm.

(01:48:14):
Wow. So, yeah, that is definitely an example of a concerted,
planned effort to foist the trans ideology, the world.
And I think I think the motivation, again, I don't think anyone set out to trigger
a social contagion and suck a whole bunch of kids into this.

(01:48:35):
And I don't think even it was financial.
I don't think it was. Let's make a whole lot of money on gender medicine.
I think it was a bunch of a small, tiny number of very powerful,
very influential trans-identified people, mostly men who want to be women.
And they had the power and saw the opportunity to create a world in which they could be women.

(01:49:02):
Okay. So they thrust this ideology onto
to all of us and it gives them
they then can be women they can
live out their fantasy they can be what they
so desire and they had the power to do it but the
collateral damage is all of
the innocent young victims who

(01:49:24):
as a result of the messaging
and the powerful political movement that these
this tiny number of people set in
motion all of these young social contagion kids
are now you know missing body parts missing their fertility lacking the ability
to form intimate relationships and that's just that wasn't that was a that was

(01:49:48):
collateral damage that was an unintended consequence of a political movement
well you seem to know a lot about the the trans Illuminati.
Let me ask you, no, but that's what that makes me think of, the transgendered Illuminati.
And it makes me wonder, though, how kids or the youth wouldn't play into those sorts of ambitions.

(01:50:13):
When we look into the work of Alfred McKenzie or John Money,
and we see some of that queer theory and the early childhood sexuality that was studied.
They were doing stuff to infants to create orgasms and measuring that sort of thing.

(01:50:35):
So it seems like the people who are very much tied into those sorts of ideologies
and the founding of queer theory.
And now we have really like taking a step forward with the maps.
We have a whole demographic of people that are coming out and really like even
trying to, you know, cover themselves under the LGBTQQIAA plus flag.

(01:51:00):
And it just seems like there's just so many elements. Talk about a perfect storm.
There are many elements. You see, I separate money, Kinsey, well, money and Kinsey.
But Harry Benjamin was one of the three pivotal figures as well.
And obviously, Harry Benjamin was crucial in the whole gender thing.

(01:51:22):
But I think the targeting of kids in this particular,
particular like the modern trans rights movement to
me is based upon gender identity ideology queer
theory is almost like that was going
on at the same time running parallel but

(01:51:43):
the two don't actually in my mind mesh very well together because you know queer
theory is all about breaking down the gender binary and breaking every smashing
everything that's normal basically and And I don't even know what they think comes after that.
It's we're all just weird with colorful hair and no family. It doesn't seem

(01:52:06):
very beneficial to anyone.
But to me, gender identity ideology is the opposite.
They rigidly enforce the gender binary.
It's like, you know, you've got male and female rigid stereotypes.
If you don't fit into those rigid stereotypes, then you must be a member of
the opposite sex. So queer theory and gender identity ideology don't go very

(01:52:29):
well in my mind together.
They're sort of in direct contradiction with each other.
But the reason I think that gender identity ideology and the modern trans rights movement.
It absolutely, I don't think it deliberately went after kids,
but it had to go after kids in the sense that...

(01:52:53):
It's based upon the idea that a man is a woman because he possesses a female gender identity.
And if he possesses a female gender identity, then that means everyone has to
possess a gender identity, right?
Like sometime in the 2010s, all of a sudden we were all told that we possess a gender identity.

(01:53:14):
We'd never even heard of it before. There's no proof that it even exists,
But we were not only told that we all possess a gender identity,
but then it was written into law that suddenly the law is protecting this innate
gender essence that resides within us all.
But that's why they ended up, whether they did it deliberately or not, I don't know.

(01:53:37):
That's why they ended up going after kids is because if everyone possesses a
gender identity, then children must possess a gender identity because everyone has one.
And if children possess gender identities, then there must be such a thing as a transgender child.
There have to be children who their gender identity is mismatched.

(01:53:58):
It doesn't match the body that they were born in. And I think there's another
motivation for them, which going back to autogynephilia that we talked about,
is because they do not want to face the reality of their paraphilia, of their fetish.
These men, if they can point to the fact that there's a transgender child.

(01:54:21):
Then that means it can't be a fetish because children aren't sexual.
So it's like if transgender children exist, then it diverts attention away from
what is truly motivating many of these men to identify as women.
And that's a sexual fetish. so i

(01:54:41):
can't really say whether i think they deliberately queer
theory is something else entirely queer theory
for some reason like it's based upon smashing everything normal including childhood
innocence and the family structure so yeah for sure those guys are definitely
targeting children and they're definitely there's there's some very questionable

(01:55:05):
motives over there, but gender identity ideology.
They did a whole rewrite of what it means to be human.
All of a sudden, what makes you a man, woman, boy or girl is not your body.
It's an innate gender soul that resides within you.
When they did that, there was always going to be collateral damage of children

(01:55:25):
who interpreted their lives through the lens of gender identity ideology and
believed themselves to be transgender.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I do see these things coming together,
though they weren't formed together.
You know, you're just discussing this person who went in for surgery so that

(01:55:46):
they could have both genitalias, you know, like a hermaphrodite,
late-life hermaphrodite, and then you tie that in with that autogynophilia,
and you tie that in with, you know, the autism and the propensity of.
Victims of this sort of thing it just seems like yeah
they may have all grown up separately but now

(01:56:08):
they're growing together into a not a death
they're very much i mean i see the non-binary surgeries truly as being queer
theory in the operating theater i think so within w path now yes they've they've
meshed together gender identity ideology and queer theory and it's all

(01:56:29):
together in one dangerous soup of, you know, hormones and surgeries and trans activism.
And yeah, this is, I mean, I say it in the report and I, and I've said it many
times that I do think this is the worst medical scandal in the history of modern medicine.
We've had lots, we've had plenty of scandals, but I don't think that we've had

(01:56:53):
one, we've had a crime this egregious before.
And I think it's going to take decades before we get to the point where we really
understand the scale of this catastrophe.
But I really think it's shaping up to be the worst crime the medical world has ever committed.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It is a travesty what's happening to these people's

(01:57:15):
bodies to fix mental considerations.
Who do you think, looking back at the records that you reviewed, was the worst offender?
Are you naming names?
Is there a role that people that we need to watch within that organization based on these findings?
We named only prominent WPATH members and surgeons because we figured all of

(01:57:42):
the little minions inside there, all of the little therapists and whomever,
there's all sorts of student researchers,
there's all sorts of people in there. So we named only prominent members.
I mean, Marcy Bowers is the president of WPATH.
Marcy Bowers is the one, is the surgeon who has performed thousands of vaginoplasty

(01:58:07):
surgeries over his career.
He is himself a man who identifies as a woman. and he's all over the files and
basically almost everything he says is quite appalling.
And so he's in there talking about...
Detransitioners and just trivializing the trauma and the negative,

(01:58:31):
like the horror and the pain and the suffering of detransitioners.
He'll trivialize it and suggest that there's one line in it where he actually
says people have to own and take active responsibility for their decisions,
especially when they are irreversible medical decisions.
Completely oblivious to the fact that it's not the young person's fault at all.

(01:58:56):
They were probably very mentally ill, probably in a very vulnerable state.
And it was a complete and utter failing on the part of every medical professional
that they came into contact with.
He's completely oblivious to the fact that all of the blame rests entirely upon
the shoulders of these gender affirming clinicians.

(01:59:16):
And at the same time, straying from the files, Bowers, before he became WPATH
president, there is a speech. It's a really interesting speech.
It's called, it's basically the Be Bold speech. And it's from 2018.
Bowers is at the WPATH annual conference.

(01:59:37):
And I think he's talking to the Standards of Care Committee.
So this would be, they've just started, they're working on Standards of Care
Version 8, the one that came out in 2022.
And Bowers does this really sort of, you know, inspirational speech where he
tells the committee members to be bold.
He tells them to lower the age limits because adolescents need access to hormones and surgeries.

(02:00:05):
He's talked to all of the transgender members of WPATH and they all think that
the mental health referral letters, that's unnecessary gatekeeping and it's transphobic.
So basically what Bowers is doing in that speech is he's advising those who

(02:00:26):
are drawing up the guidelines that will be followed internationally by doctors all over the world.
He's advising the removal of safeguards.
He is basically saying safeguarding is transphobic, lower the age limit,
make it easier to get access to drugs and surgeries because otherwise it's discrimination.
And then four years later or five years later, when the victims,

(02:00:51):
because the WPATH basically campaigned to remove all safeguards,
the guardrails are transphobic, let's remove all the guardrails.
Then a whole bunch of innocent young adolescents in terrible mental health,
in terrible states of distress,
they come stumbling along, they plunge into the abyss, their bodies are destroyed,

(02:01:13):
they become the victims of these doctors who have abandoned all safeguarding.
And then at the end of it, Bowers says, you've got to own and take active responsibility
for your decisions, especially if it's a medical decision with lifelong consequences.
Completely oblivious to the fact that WPath is the very reason that all of these

(02:01:33):
kids got harmed because WPath removed the safeguarding.
Wow yeah you know that
roundabout logic and that
callousness to the it really
is a kind of gaslighting too like to suggest that kids are supposed to know
as much about the effects of this one-off surgery they may be no few if anybody

(02:01:58):
who's ever gone through from the perspective of advanced modern state-of-the-art
technology and its studies and findings i mean it's just an
absolute gaslight to expect somebody to know all of those liabilities when they go into this.
It also makes me think of like, you probably saw that episode or that part of

(02:02:18):
Blue's Clues where they had that whole transgender parade.
I know, unspeakable. I grew up on Blue's Clues, so I'm just like,
I mean, this is like for infant TV.
And you have, you know, the families of these different animals with all of
their different trans-identifying flags, etc. on them.
You know, when we advertise medicine on TV, pharmaceuticals,

(02:02:43):
you get a long list of all the side effects.
You get told, ask your doctor about this and prepare for night sweats,
for the shimmers and the shakes and the diarrhea, upset stomach and,
you know, this, that and the other possible death.
And then we get over
again back into blues clues or back into pop culture

(02:03:06):
and we're having it promoted to us this medical
treatment for a for a mental disorder is being promoted without any warnings
without any discussions or anything like that saying parents before your kids
watch this you should know it's going to be dealing with issues surrounding
you know trans Man's identification.

(02:03:27):
And there's a lot of health complications that can come with pursuing this route.
You should know this and talk to your kid about this. None of that happens.
It's just insinuated into their life. Like it's just you're going to get a haircut,
except it's your penis this time.
Yeah, the Blue's Clues, they had a beaver with mastectomy scars, right?

(02:03:49):
There's the trans flag and there's a beaver with the mastectomy scars.
You see, this is the, this is, they,
I think, the makers of Blue's Clues, that particular episode and all sort of
kids shows like it or the books that are promoting this to children.
In their mind, what they're doing is, first and foremost, they believe that

(02:04:14):
there is such a thing as a transgender child.
And so because there's such a thing as a transgender child, these poor kids
need to see themselves represented.
And then they won't feel so much stigma.
Society will be more accepting of them, and then their lives will be much easier. It's representation.

(02:04:36):
They need to see themselves represented.
What these people do not understand is that that is a vector for the social
contagion, that if you are planting the idea into very young,
vulnerable minds that having your healthy breasts removed is perfectly normal and healthy.

(02:04:59):
You are planting the idea into a vulnerable mind that going down that medical
pathway is just a normal part of human existence.
And that's a type of person. Being trans is a type of person.
And when you put those ideas into the minds of young people who are still,
they're still finding their way, they're still figuring out the world.

(02:05:22):
They don't understand yet themselves, their sexuality, their identities,
and how they fit into the world.
And if you plan a dangerous idea like having a mastectomy is perfectly natural
and healthy and let's wave a flag and celebrate it, you are absolutely guaranteed to suck.

(02:05:43):
A certain number of very vulnerable, always as well, the most vulnerable kids,
the ones who are autistic,
the ones who are struggling with mental health issues, the ones who maybe have
experienced trauma or even they're just coming to terms with their homosexual
identity and they haven't yet figured that out.
You're going to suck all of those kids in.

(02:06:04):
And you know what they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I really do think that the makers of these TV shows and everything,
I think their intentions probably for the most part are good,
maybe some ill intent, but they don't understand.

(02:06:25):
Social contagion. If you follow me on Twitter, you'll know that I never stop
going on about social contagion, And I think if everybody understood just how contagious ideas,
how contagious behaviors are, how contagious emotions are, then we would be
a whole lot more careful about the type of idea that we put into children's shows.

(02:06:50):
And this one, I think, is the most dangerous idea of all.
This idea that modifying your body is the road to happiness.
We're selling it to kids who are either just about to go through puberty or
they're in puberty and they're in this terrible time.
And then we sell them this idea that having body parts chopped off is the road to happiness.

(02:07:13):
And of course, some of them are getting sucked into it.
Yeah, they are. I think about things like money motivations versus an agenda
versus just good old fashioned good intent, people trying to do what they believe
and they know is right. Right.
And it seems that in this world, what is lifted up, what is allowed to expand,

(02:07:38):
what is protected by government agencies and foisted and propagandized by the
mainstream media tend to be the things that are aligned with the globalists,
with the individuals who are pulling the strings when it comes to the larger
picture governmentally within different industries.

(02:07:58):
And so I do ask myself when certain things are allowed to progress and proliferate
under the current watchful censoring eye of Big Brother that we have ever before us.
If these things that are happening are then part of or will this part of this

(02:08:23):
agenda to create, you know, if nothing else, discord in the world or chaos in the world.
And so it definitely seems like this condition and the so-called treatment,
which is not medicine, it has been weaponized toward the destruction.
Yes, of the gays. We're transing the gay away. way. We're changing the tomboys out of existence.

(02:08:49):
And then you're also insinuating this mental condition through the social contagion
of the media into the minds or fertile mind fields of children to start picking
up these behaviors and these beliefs about themselves that they shouldn't ever have to go through.
And then it gets more concrete as we... I'm sorry if we're going on and on.

(02:09:12):
I guess I'm just trying to understand my thoughts about this because I want
to trust the intentions of the people who are actually doing this,
no matter how crazy they're being.
I want to trust that they are trying their best to do what's right.
But at the same time, it makes you wonder why voices like, well,

(02:09:35):
gays against groomers, as you know, is widely criticized.
But then other sort of things like this seem like, well, the front people may
be people who are very mission-focused and genuine.
They're being empowered by people who I think don't really care about that and
are really looking towards the destruction at the end of that rainbow.

(02:09:57):
What say you? Yeah, I'm not very conspiratorial-minded, I suppose.
I think maybe it's a weakness of mine that I always...
Try to attribute the best of intentions to the
people who are inflicting this

(02:10:18):
upon us i i really do
perhaps there's workings behind the scenes that that i do not understand and
there are people who think that for whatever reason it would be very beneficial
to completely break down all of society and have all of these kids experimented on.

(02:10:41):
But I really do think that even those,
well, actually, no, maybe the ones at the very beginning, maybe the ones who
set up like Rothblatt and his gang of very powerful people, I don't think they
had the best intentions.
I don't think they were actually looking to improve society and make society

(02:11:04):
a better and more inclusive environment.
I think they literally just wanted to create a world in which they could be women.
They wanted to create a fictional world in which they could live out their fantasy
and force everyone to go along with it.

(02:11:25):
And that's what they did. So no, I don't think they had good intentions, but
I do think the vast majority of their foot soldiers
who thought they were just fighting gay
rights 2.0 i think the
vast majority of people definitely think they
are helping when they are doing absolutely terrible devastating harm who's behind

(02:11:46):
the scenes though it's not i'm not very good at i'm not very good at imagining
the the conspiracy side of it
yeah i'm sure whoever you know if there was some nefarious plot of foot,
we'd never really know who it truly was anyway, like the man behind the curtain.
But just looking at patterns of what seems to be.

(02:12:08):
Prospering and what is not allowed to prosper right now. It just seems very
telling and very concerning that, you know, it's kind of like you were talking
about earlier, like, you know, if we could just uproot, you know,
the transgender matter,
you know, particularly from the kids culture altogether,
you know, out of society,

(02:12:28):
then we will have like removed a real, you know, know, aberration of sorts.
And so I kind of think, though, like how deeply enmeshed, though,
are the how deep are the roots of, for instance, the transgender issue? I mean, it's root.
It's roots wrap around Nike. They wrap around Walmart.
They wrap around every company that changes their flags, you know,

(02:12:50):
once a year for transgender awareness.
You know, it wraps around this celebrity and in this type of music.
And don't listen to me or watch me if you're not a supporter of
this so it's a very it's like a specter it's
like this octopus and you know if
it's to be pulled out i think you know it's you know
will cause a real shift in the substrate of what

(02:13:13):
you know everything's built on so yeah this
is a it's a real matter for our times and you know wherever the strings are
at obviously w path pulled a lot of those strings you know and so So you did
a great work by organizing all of this for us to understand and to begin to go through even deeper.

(02:13:35):
And hopefully it leads to a change in policies, legislation, things like that.
Before we get out of here, what would be some of the last things you'd like
to see change as a result of these findings?
I would really, I think, I would just like every single nation to abandon WPATH.

(02:13:59):
Not just abandon WPATH, but honestly, publicly abandon WPATH.
It's not good enough to me that everybody just sort of quietly,
oh, let's get rid of WPATH.
This is this group, get rid of them out of the references and the policies.
I think I would just like everyone to understand that they've been duped.

(02:14:20):
And I think it's really hard to admit that you've been duped as a national health
authority or a government or a hospital, a gender clinic, whatever. ever.
And on a personal level, I think it's very hard to admit that you fell for something,
that you were tricked into believing something that wasn't true.

(02:14:40):
But I think I would just like people to be able to face up to the fact that
they were duped. And I don't blame them because WPath really pulled a great stunt.
It was a very remarkable trick that they pulled. It was very convincing.
So first of all, let's just all face up to the fact that we were lied to.
We were duped and then like just

(02:15:02):
stop listening to these people just just like they
can still exist they can go and do their weird you know trans activism with
surgery thing over there and we just we can just shift back to science and evidence
and improving the health and well-being of a very vulnerable cohort of people in society.

(02:15:26):
Absolutely. All right. Well, I hope all the same things. Let me ask you,
where can people find you and your social media?
Mostly. Well, I'm only on social media. I'm only on Twitter X now, I suppose.
And my handle is at underscore cry Mia river. Mia is M I a cry me a river.

(02:15:47):
Cry me a river. I love it. And then what's your, uh, the sub stack that you
guys write for? Well, I work for Michael Schellenberger and his Substack is public.
I've been working for his non-profit Environmental Progress.
That's where I wrote the WPath Files report and that's where we released it

(02:16:12):
on environmentalprogress.org, I think is the website.
I think I'll be writing some stuff for Michael's Substack Public more in the coming months.
So you can find me at either one of those.
And I'll be speaking at Dissident Dialogues in a few weeks in New York.

(02:16:32):
Oh, wonderful. Okay. And so people can find the W files just by like doing a Google search for it.
Yes, you can. I have it as well. It's in my Twitter bio, but yeah,
you can find it on a Google search.
All right. Well, thank you so much, Mia, for all of your time today,
all of your amazing insight.
You're very informed, and I appreciate everything that you've shared with us in your time today.

(02:16:58):
So thank you very much. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
Absolutely. Well, this is the end of the show, guys. So if you have not,
like, subscribe, follow.
You can go to gazeagainstgroomers.com to donate. You can email podcast at gaysagainstgroomers.com

(02:17:18):
if you want to communicate with us.
So that's it. Have a great week. Thank you.

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Episode 10: Unraveling The WPATH Files with Mia Hughes

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