March 26, 2024 • 56 mins
In this episode of The Dark Side of the Rainbow, we delve into the critical topic of gender distress and its implications on youth. Our host, Robert Wallace, engages in an enlightening conversation with Pamela Garfield-Jaeger, the author of "A Practical Response to Gender Distress: Tips and Tools for Families".
Through insightful discussions surrounding transgender issues, the responsibilities held by parents and society, the corruption within influential organizations, and the debate on gender identity, this episode provides unique perspectives on these complex subjects. Pamela advocates for grounding children in truth to develop a strong sense of self and understanding of their place in the world.
Pamela disputes the born-in-the-wrong-body principal and discusses the potential harm of hormones and surgeries, the often accompanying underlying mental health issues, and the need for parents to trust their instincts instead of relying solely on experts. She also emphasizes the significance of questioning and critically analyzing data involved in understanding these issues.
Addressing frequent communication problems faced by parents, Pamela highlights the importance of asking open-ended and non-confrontational questions to help children better understand their individual situations and beliefs. The episode concludes on a positive note, focusing on her book - "A Practical Response to Gender Distress", a resourceful guide for families to manage gender distress efficiently.
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(00:00):
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Music.
(01:08):
Welcome to the Dark Side of the Rainbow. My name is Robert Wallace,
and you're going to hear an interview that I did today with a woman who just
wrote a book that is going to help a lot of people.
The book is called A Practical Response to Gender Distress, Tips and Tools for Families.
(01:29):
This is written by Pamela Garfield Yeager, and she has a lot of interesting
insight into the war on children as we're experiencing it right now.
Now, so I encourage you to listen to this interview and visit her website and
Gays Against Rumors dot com for more information and resources.
(01:53):
If you happen to be dealing with this issue or you want to get involved, enjoy the interview.
All right. So we're here with Pamela Garfield Yeager.
She's just produced a new book. Could you show that book to us,
Pamela? Yeah, I have it right here.
Gender Distress. Practical Response to Gender Distress. It's kind of a mouthful,
(02:15):
but that's the name I ended up with.
We'll talk more about it. But the reason I titled that is because there's a
lot of practical things inside. side.
Excellent. Yeah, I've been through it a bit. It's an amazing book.
There's a lot of people who've also reviewed it who think it's very needed right now.
(02:35):
So I love that for you. I love that for all of us. Thank you. You're welcome.
So I'm going to launch a few questions at you and then we'll hear your insight
on it. Okay. What you think.
So how do you believe that the normalization of of a hyper-sexualized culture
(02:55):
is eroding traditional values and impacting the moral fabric of society.
Oh my gosh. I know, it's a mouthful. Let me simplify it. The normalization of
hyper-sexuality, what's wrong with it?
Yeah, well, I mean, that is the... Actually, one of the people who reviewed
(03:16):
my book, James Lindsay, talks a lot about this.
This is the the pinnacle of queer theory, which is basically turn everything
normal and make that abnormal and make things that are abnormal, normal.
So it's basically, we are turning our world upside down.
I think it's, it's creating the people that are, I think this is now where you're right.
(03:38):
You started me off the, out of the gate conspiracy talk, but the,
the people I think that are leading this, it's probably not the people that
are, you know, just sort of going along or,
you know, have been taught this, but the people that I think are pushing it
from above, I think their goal is to destroy society.
If we keep going in this direction, we are going to destroy society and we're
(04:02):
going to destroy families.
We're going to destroy just like all of the order that we have. We just...
Our basic values and yeah chaos
absolutely what do
you think is the responsibility of the boots on the
ground the parents the schools society and
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in preserving what we have or what we had from those influences yeah i mean
i think the biggest responsibility is is to speak up and to and not pretend
or not dismiss that this is serious.
So to acknowledge that this is serious and to do something about it.
(04:45):
And when I say do something, I know not everyone's going to write a book and
everyone's going to have an Instagram page with viral reels or whatever.
But we can talk to our neighbors. We can go to church. We can say,
we're not going to go along with this.
If they make you say pronouns at work, don't do it.
And you can even explain why.
(05:07):
Like, I'm not going to do this. This is causing problems in society.
And I'm not, this is not something I agree with.
So, so I think those little things go a long way. People are afraid to,
they don't want to make waves or they're, they're just want to get along.
And I think we can be respectful and we can, but we can speak up because there
is this sort of false consensus, I think that's happening because so many people are self-silencing.
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So if we can break that that silent majority you know to actually speak up about
it and not let kids get sucked into this so easily i think that would go a long long way yeah.
Yeah it would we're the first line of defense between the kids and the outside
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influences yeah we're protecting the kids yeah i mean that's obviously your
entire thing and that's so yeah I think I think it's weird that.
There are a lot of people now that don't recognize that protecting innocents
of children is important, and that if you don't do that, that that will disrupt
their psychological development.
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One of the things I talk about in my book, actually, is the reason a lot of
kids are gravitating towards being trans is because they're exposed to porn
at too young of an age, or very hyper-sexualized things.
I don't know if you can call it traumatism, but it impacts them them to the
point where they do not want to grow up to be the man or woman that they're
(06:35):
supposed to be because they're afraid of what they saw.
And then they also don't learn how to interact with each other.
So all these things, all these ways that kids are not being protected,
we need to protect the children.
Yeah, it kind of makes me wonder about, you know, how the first thing you were
saying is, you know, it really seems like a top-down operation.
(06:55):
Seems like we have influences that are telling organizations how to run and
then they are They're raising up their own leadership who's following orders.
But it makes me think about the individuals themselves who are so happy-go-lucky about pushing this.
Because it's almost like they are projecting their own wild youthfulness,
(07:18):
their own rebellious, you know, heart,
in a sense, in a way that will create a new world.
So like when we're kids, we think, you know, abolish the establishment or,
you know, we should be able to do whatever we want and, you know,
lawlessness because, you know, freedom.
And yeah, it really is because you need those boundaries to experience freedom.
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And then you put these people in leadership and then all of a sudden they're
kind of like, you know, pushing it out there like they want to see like an experiment
what's going to happen in the world if everybody just does whatever they want.
Yeah, I don't know what they think. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just taking a minute to speculate.
What do you think that the current emphasis on transgender issues is doing to
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undermine societal norms, particularly gender roles?
Yeah, I mean, it's weird. So the WPATH files just came out. I'm sure you're very familiar.
Michael Schellenberger kind of led that effort.
Another woman named Mia Hughes wrote it to give them credit.
And they got a lot of inside information from WPATH.
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That's the organization that supposedly the experts that are quoted to say,
well, this, they say this is the right way to do things.
But what the WPath files did was expose that they're really corrupt and they
don't know what they're doing and that they're...
You know, it's pseudoscience and it's activists and not doctors and ethical therapists. So.
(08:54):
What do you think the current emphasis and the gender issue roles is doing to
undermine societal norms, particularly around gender roles? Oh, right.
So, yeah. So what Michael Schellberger was saying when we were having this conversation,
when the WPATH files came out, which is these files that show the corruption of WPATH,
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that he couldn't understand how we went from the 70s, where we had this cartoon
and this show and record really called Free to Be You and Me.
And that was where I, you know, those are the stuff I grew up with,
which was basically that boys and girls, that the message was boys and girls can do what they want.
You don't have to be locked into these rigid stereotypes.
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However, the transgender movement has kind of
set us backwards where now if you
are a boy that likes to play with dolls or
a girl that likes to play with trucks like they they just put
them on puberty blockers and say that that kid is trans and basically are trying
to convert them out of being just like a human being in certain ways so it's
(10:02):
taken away i'd say the the classical liberal perspective of boys and girls can
have have different personalities,
different interests, and it doesn't make them any less of a man or a woman.
But the trans movement has completely turned that upside down.
Yeah, it really has. What do you think could be done, should be done?
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Is there a line of permissiveness when dealing with, okay, you got a child who's
going through their sexual maturation, their identity is developing in terms of puberty and all this.
And maybe they're having issues like, I don't know if I'm gay or if I'm a toaster
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or whatever the thing is.
What is like a healthy way, do you think, of dealing with somebody in that situation?
Yeah. I mean, what I really think is children need to be grounded in truth.
They need to know. I think a lot of times when a child says, am I a boy or a girl?
And there isn't even that cartoon in a free to be you and me where these babies
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are trying to to figure out if they're a boy or a girl.
And the skit ends where a nurse changes a diaper and then they can see under
the diaper that they're a boy or a girl. And there's this big sense of relief.
Oh, I'm a boy. I'm a girl.
And they just want to know. And children are looking to adults to understand
the world and to understand truth.
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And so if they're starting to think that they're a toaster or a cat or something,
you could say, well, that's fun to pretend, but you are a a little boy or a little girl.
And that'll actually ease their anxiety, it'll help them.
Grow up and figure out who they are
like that will help their identity because that is just who they are
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they can't just decide to be something else it's interesting
so you're almost saying that if a parent didn't affirm every will-o'-the-wisp
notion that came through a child's
mind they might actually have a strengthened sense of who they are.
(12:09):
I think so. Okay. Yeah, it's a strengthening of who they are and then where
they fit in the world, right?
And understanding of the world.
If everything's changing all the time all around them between who they are and what they could be,
and then their peers or even their parents or other adults,
their teacher, has new pronouns every other day,
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that's that creates a lot of chaos and anxiety
especially for a young person that doesn't understand is not
grounded in truth that's hard for children and
i think that's one of i mean we could get into it all day but
one of the reasons why i think kids are having more anxious more
anxiety yeah definitely it feels kind of like a throwback to go into this way
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of thinking where you know you parented the kids and the kids weren't parenting
the adults yeah yeah it's That's what's happening in a lot of cases.
It seems like the adults are the children.
And there's this weird philosophy, let's let the child lead,
which it seems like it's a big overcompensation for, you know,
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when in the past when children were supposed to be seen, not heard, right? And at all.
And I feel like the needle has moved so far now that the children need to be
heard no matter what, even when they want to be a toaster, we go along with
it. And that's just, it's gone too far and it's harmful.
Yeah, no, it definitely has. And so that's why your book is so important right now.
(13:39):
It's because it's actually like relevant to talk about how to practically deal with this phenomena.
Yeah, it's really, it just gives very specific practical tools and also just
combats a lot of the common lies that are out there that, and people who aren't
following this topic as closely as like we are,
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you know, So I realized I had this clinical knowledge, understanding childhood
development and just working with families.
And then also, you know, being in this space of talking about this and learning
about it and reading how things have been unfolding for the last few years.
I felt like I was in a special position to write this book to help other people
that don't watch this stuff every day.
(14:22):
Absolutely. Yeah, when you're enmeshed in it, it's kind of like it becomes old hat to talk about,
but it's still a brand new topic for most of the world who's not so concentrated
on this and they're distracted and this is happening until it's happening.
It's not affecting them, so they don't really think about it that much.
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Yeah, so I kind of wrote this for what I say, the normies, the people that aren't
immersed in this topic every day.
Yeah, it's a good introduction, too, for people who will have that wake up call one day.
You know, they'll find out this book was written three years ago by Pamela Garfield Yeager.
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Now it's relevant in my life. Exactly. Because Johnny is now a dragon or whatever.
Right. And whatever the cool thing is three years from now is.
Is but of course you know they'll try to
say the trans activists will try to say all
this is natural which is it's really hard to
believe that common sense has been lost yeah you know we were just kind of talking
(15:32):
about whether or not this is a top-down thing i think we all kind of acknowledge
that it is to the degree that it just didn't grow up organically around us.
From your viewpoint is this to the
trans issues trans identifying issues come out
of something that is
at all natural is it
(15:55):
all pathological is it all nurture yeah
i have a whole chapter in my book actually this is i think
it's called why are the kids choosing to be trans something like
that and i go into all the different underlying reasons and all the under all
the influences influences that could be causing someone to believe that they're
(16:15):
trans a lot of this is philosophical so you know it depends on who you talk
to but what what i'll just say what i believe.
That I believe it's coming from external sources. There are people that have
a very strong discomfort in their body and, or a strong longing to be the opposite sex.
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And that might not always come from like a TikTok video or Reddit or something like that.
It might be coming from something else, but usually when you dig deeper,
someone who feels that really strong discomfort in their body,
There is something else going on.
And in most cases, when it's that pervasive, usually there's some kind of sexual
trauma in their history that they've learned to hate their body or dissociate
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from their body. I feel really uncomfortable. comfortable.
But yeah, they're all different kind of scenarios of why someone might gravitate
towards this and different influences.
But I do not believe that it's like a nature thing.
I don't think someone is actually born in the wrong body, either adult or kids.
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But what I can't argue is that I don't know if the choice of taking hormones
and getting surgeries might be the right choice for a very select few amount of people.
I can't argue that. So maybe that's true because I can't read everyone's minds.
It's kind of what I say in the book.
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But what I can say is that hormones and surgeries are extremely harmful to the body.
So you make that choice and you know you're making a choice to harm your health.
You're making a choice most likely to sterilize yourself. self.
And you might be digging deep, falling deeper into a hole away from the things
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that might help you feel comfortable in your body,
meaning like perhaps the sexual trauma, because doing that often is a way to
escape, you know, you kind of shed a skin.
So it's hard to say if it's the right choice for everyone.
But do I think that there's like an actual like gene or birth defect or something
like that? Let's just say there's no proof of that.
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So that leads me to my next question.
What do you see as the underlying moral decay contributing to not just trans-identifying
individuals, but the suicide rates among children and adolescents?
Even a really high amount of suicides after transition.
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Yeah, the whole suicide thing, that's their weapon, right?
That's the thing they use to, I call it emotional blackmail,
to blackmail parents to go along with this.
For people, for even legislatures that are thinking about laws around this,
they're worried that they're going to do suicide by preventing these gender
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procedures. procedures.
However, it's all a lie. And it's really what it is a sort of a half truth about the suicide.
And the reason for that is because the people that tend to gravitate towards
the transgender world, they have usually have underlying mental health issues
that would lead them to be more suicidal.
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So they have the data to show that yes, trans people are more more suicidal.
But we have no proof to show that affirming them is going to prevent that suicide.
So like you said, there are suicides both before someone might transition and
after or during or however you want to measure that.
So there is a decay because we just keep talking about suicide and we keep almost
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glamorizing it, using it as a weapon.
We're teaching all people, but mostly young people, that to get what they want,
they can just say, I'm going to kill myself.
And that's the way they're being taught. That's how they should be accepted
and loved is to just tell everybody they're going to kill themselves.
I mean, that's the lesson because we're reinforcing that by saying,
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oh, okay, we have to do this now.
So yeah, it's a huge decay.
And really, if you like to get into the clinical terms of it,
these are the symptoms or traits of a person with with a personality disorder.
And when someone has a personality disorder, a lot of the treatment is to help
them learn ways to ask for what they want and what they need without threatening
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suicide so that they can build stronger relationships,
you know, that aren't about blackmail.
Because of course, someone in the moment is going to say, okay, I'll do what you need.
Like, I won't break up with you, for example, because I'm afraid my boyfriend's going to kill himself.
So I won't break up with him, but
that's not going to make a long lasting relationship or true connection.
(21:05):
So that's kind of what we're doing here by keep using this suicide narrative
is we're teaching them that this is the way they get what they want.
This is the way they connect with the world and super unhealthy.
Yeah. And to use your word, it is creating a decay. Okay.
Do you think, we know that there's
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a high percentage of autism among the trans-identifying population.
I don't think it. I know that, yes. Right, right. We know this.
And so I wonder, you know, it's kind of like what came first, the chicken or the egg.
What came first, the trans-identification or the suicidal tendencies?
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Dependencies, I wonder if a lot of the mental stress that leads somebody to
conclude that ending their life might be some kind of solution might somehow
be tied in with that lack of self-confidence or a sense of identity,
which leads them to start exploring these alternative routes to begin with.
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Yeah, I mean, I think it's all circular. I'm not
sure which is the chicken or the egg but i do
believe if there weren't all the influences out there in the
media and politics and commercials just
on the town where there are flags you know when you go to the coffee shop if
like all these things weren't in front of us all the time i don't i think someone
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who had who felt a little lost lonely doesn't is struggling to fit in or having
just having other struggles they might not land on the transgender identity.
They might land on something else. They might just have other difficulties.
But I think that there's this expansion of trans is because of all these external influences.
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What I see is that all these trans influences are preying on the vulnerable is how I see it.
And the autistic people are one of the biggest groups out there that are being preyed upon.
They're being marketed to is what they are. They have their own flag.
They have several flags.
I actually, I made this little reference in my book. Like if anybody's seen
(23:14):
the show, Big Bang Theory,
Sheldon Cooper, that character who's has autistic traits, he had a little TV
show called Fun with Flags, you know, and it's, it's a joke.
It's funny in the show, but I mean, that's what they're doing with the,
the trans thing that you get a flag, you
know and autistic people like that because it's
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concrete and they feel like it represents them
and it gives them a sense of belonging yeah yep i know that reference i've seen
young sheldon too that's a pretty great show i actually didn't i didn't get
into that one yeah i had some reservations about the character but overall it's a fabulous show,
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But yeah, I know what you're talking about. The next question kind of answers
itself because it has a lot to do with the fact that you wrote this book and it's really about like,
how do we empower parents and educators and mental health professionals to promote
the traditional kind of common sense principles.
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Upon which our identities are built?
How do you? Yeah, that's my entire mission is to empower parents because I think
that's one element of this is how I think how we've gotten to this place is
that parents have deferred too much to experts and they don't believe in themselves
the way they used to. As parents, they think, well, I'm just a mom.
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I don't have degrees. I didn't study psychology or I didn't study medicine.
So I'm going to listen to this doctor who has the white coat and the letters
behind their name. So my goal is for you as a parent to believe in yourself.
If something doesn't feel right, to not ignore that feeling and to ask more
(25:03):
questions, to question things.
Because just because the experts say doesn't mean it's good and it's true.
I don't think we need to dismiss literally every single thing an expert says.
However, I do think we should never listen to experts blindly and we should
very much believe in ourselves. And when someone, for example,
(25:24):
says, would you rather have a dead daughter or a live son?
And your daughter has never shown any signs of trans until they were on YouTube
for several hours a day recently.
And you know that this is because your child was influenced from the internet.
Don't listen to that doctor.
Think for yourself. self. And that's a lot of what this book is about.
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It is to empower parents, to give them the knowledge so that they can say exactly,
like counter a lot of these lies that are being told.
And I kind of say some things that are like clinical, if you're talking to a
therapist, like, why are you, you know, teaching my child things that are against
what dialectical behavior,
(26:10):
dialectical behavioral therapy teaches, which is, you know, to,
you know, ask for help appropriately Why are you talking about suicide in front of my child?
We know that that's not, you know, that goes against the guidelines for suicide prevention.
And really, and just the basic question, can you show me the data that you're
quoting this from? Like, where are you getting this idea from?
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Like, they're basically just parroting it without understanding or they've never
read the studies because all the studies that they quote are,
they're false, and they've been retracted.
So ask them to literally show you this study so you can look at it and see that
there may be like five participants or no control group. None of them have control groups.
(26:53):
So all these things like push back, ask questions and have discernment.
Wow, that was like the golden hammer for that whole phraseology that gets pushed,
you know, dead daughter, living son thing.
I have a whole chapter on that, so yeah. Yeah.
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Well, good. People need to get through this and discern the anecdotal from the real.
Yeah, there's two things. There's one, like, the data is just false,
so it's a lie. And then there's just the common sense of, like, this is just wrong.
Like, it's just wrong. You don't talk about suicide to a kid in front of them
and say that they're going to kill themselves.
What, do you have a magic ball or something? How can anybody know someone's
(27:37):
going to kill themselves?
Even if we've had this data, which we don't, you can't, you would never do that.
Like if you, someone is at high risk of suicide, you never sit there and be
like, well, they're going to kill themselves.
You know, like, no, don't, you don't do that. That's just wrong.
And I would push back if I were a parent. I mean, God, if any expert did that
to me, oh, they'd get a mouthful.
(28:02):
Absolutely let me ask you then what do you feel like or what do you think based on your experience,
should the world look like should society kind of be like with regards to okay
so there's gay people in the world there's people who identify as trans we don't
(28:22):
need flags up everywhere we go we don't need propaganda reminding us of that that.
How could all this fit into the delicate ecosystem of our culture?
Well, I mean, I really wish I had a time machine.
And maybe if we could just take, you know, the DeLorean to back to,
I'm not sure what year, maybe like 1994 or something.
(28:43):
The way the world was then, that would be ideal for me. I liked it then when
it comes to this gender stuff.
It wasn't every day. There were people who were gender nonconforming.
I'd say gays and lesbians were mostly accepted.
There wasn't gay marriage yet, but there, you know, there was,
it was just a level of acceptance that was okay.
(29:04):
And it just wasn't on everyone's radar. There wasn't virtue signaling all the
time. People were just living their lives.
People were allowed to think for themselves and things were certainly not pushed on children.
So, I mean, those are the things I'd like to see. I don't know if that's the particular year.
I mean, you could pick apart things, but it's just, it's just, things have gone crazy.
(29:25):
I think even those of us who are observing it or, you know, can't unsee it,
it's, we still, we have to be numb to it to a degree to get through our day.
And it'd be nice to not have to do that, you know, to not have to,
gosh, now I want to get coffee and now I have to walk through this,
you know, trans flag, you know, on the door. And it's just like, really?
(29:46):
Do I have to have this in front of my face? And like, sometimes I'm with someone,
I get irritated by it and they're like, oh, just whatever, Pam, let it go for now.
Out and I'm like I just want
I just wish I didn't have to like when
I'm just trying to go about my day that I didn't get like slapped in the face
by it and I'm an adult I grew up when I didn't need I didn't see all that stuff
(30:10):
so kids are seeing it all the time so it'd be yeah it'd be nice if society could
just let it go and stop trying to tell other people how to think and feel all the time.
Yeah. What degree of this growth and phenomena of this trans and queer identifying
youth do you think is just pure social contagion?
(30:33):
Yeah, I mean, I'd say most of it.
I can't put a number, but I'd say almost all of it.
Yeah, it's hard to say. I mean, if it's if it's constantly in their faces.
Yeah, I have like in the book, I go into like all these different influences.
And I show the picture of when the White House had the trans flag up in the
(30:54):
middle, you know, on Pride Month.
And, you know, it was just in our faces constantly.
How could that not have an influence? I just I just don't understand how anyone
can think it's natural after, you know, this is the world we live in.
Right what do you think is
the difference between gay people and
(31:16):
the trans trans agenda
let's say i mean obviously we
know the difference of sexual orientation versus i'm in
the wrong body completely right but you know
we see in these two like you were just saying we've had the
trans pride flag flown during
gay pride month the progress flag the progress
(31:38):
flag that's right like the communist flag actually in my opinion but
yeah there's a lot of stuff going on there they've been they're
including race on that now you see the brown and black stripes it's nothing
to do with sexuality nothing to do with being lost in space in the wrong body
and nothing to do with you know being attracted to the same sex now it's pretty
much everybody but straight white male and female.
(32:04):
So what's the difference between that and gay? I mean, the biggest one is you
don't need procedures to be gay, right?
You don't need to be a lifelong medical patient and provide lots of profit for big pharma to be gay.
So that's probably the biggest difference. difference i
do this is probably not politically correct for your podcast but
i i do think there are especially kids that
(32:27):
are wanting they're opting to be
gay or exploring their gayness when
they might not otherwise because they don't want to just be that normal straight
head cis whatever and so they might choose to be gay for a while too i'm not
saying i don't believe i believe that you know some gay people it's not a choice
(32:47):
that's my belief but i i do think that there are influences there too.
So, but either way, like if you decide to be gay, you're not chopping off body parts.
You're not creating disabilities. You're not sterilizing anybody.
You can decide that if it's true, you could just like a young person could decide that was a phase.
(33:08):
I mean, I remember like, you know, in the nineties, like when I was going to
college, like that was a phase for a lot of young women, like to explore,
you know, am I lesbian or not?
And then they decided they weren't right so none of
them lost their breasts through that exploration phase none of them sterilized
themselves through that and then maybe some of them realized that they were
lesbians and you know that's fine too but that's that's the big difference right
(33:32):
when you're trying to figure yourself out you're not making lifelong uh damage to your body.
Absolutely. I mean, even as a gay person, don't tell anybody that I told you
this, Pamela, but I am a homosexual.
Oh, I'll keep your secret.
Uh you know i had a couple of experiences with
(33:53):
a couple ladies we'll say some so-called girlfriends
and that was completely sparred on
by the peer pressure to assimilate
toward a you know heteronormative society or to find myself as being straight
so if you know if myself in that situation situation can cause myself to try
(34:16):
to experiment opposite to what I really was.
You know, I think that says a lot about what you just said, how it also can go the other way.
You can have very straight people looking around at this trend thinking, maybe if I just try,
or maybe if I did this or that, you know, maybe there's some angle and it's
(34:41):
unfortunate confusion there. Yeah.
And, and you're rewarded for it now, which is weird.
You can't just be right. Like if you're a gay man, that's cool.
You just are, you know, if I'm a straight woman, I just am.
And that's cool. But there's like social rewards now for doing or being certain
identities, especially for young people and their peer groups, you know, teenagers,
(35:03):
you know, you're boring and, you know, lame if you're just like a regular cishet,
especially if you're white. I mean, that's like a big sin.
Right. Right. So they're being they're being trained to hate themselves.
So, of course, they want to explore and choose to be something else.
Yeah. Yep. It's definitely not healthy. It's not it's not natural.
(35:27):
Not natural. So that's another thing to think about. Like, you know,
what are the messages your kids getting at school among their peers and then
also maybe from their teachers and the curriculums, social, emotional learning?
It's teaching a lot of kids to hate themselves for simply how they were born.
And so if you learn to hate yourself, then you might want to have another identity.
(35:50):
You might want to change your name and your look and then get a bunch of flags
and a parade and perhaps even an assembly and told that you're stunning and brave.
That makes sense. And you just made an interesting point, because not only are
people being shamed into hating who they are,
but they're also being rewarded for changing that identity.
(36:15):
Exactly yes definitely yeah yeah it's all over hollywood is everywhere like
there i believe there's a lot of people that wouldn't be seen the time of day
if they were just a regular straight,
person even if they're really talented yeah people are yeah there are other
people are getting the recognition just for their identities i mean it's like
(36:35):
the woke olympics in hollywood now,
Exactly. It's like some kind of, who's going to say social engineering full on right now.
All right. So we've got a little bit of time left.
So I'm going to just ask you a couple more questions. okay and
(36:57):
anything you want to originate please do what are
the potential consequences of deviating from
traditional gender norms and
promoting gender non-conformity in young people i mean yeah of course we're
looking at it we're looking at suicide we're looking at depression and mental
illness and regret what does it
(37:19):
look like in 20 40 years from now this generation yeah it looks Looks bad.
There's my answer. I mean, you can get really dark with it.
We're talking about sterilizing a generation and not being able to build families,
(37:44):
you know, destroying the family.
We're destroying families. They're severing kids from their current parents.
And then we're also making it more difficult for them to build future families.
The trans people would say, oh, it's fine. We can just do, you know,
IVF or, you know, freeze eggs or, you know, make, it's all simple, right?
Like just whatever, you know, just do it.
(38:06):
Of course, that's more money for the fertility business, but it's not the same.
It's not the same kind of connection when you're dealing with kids,
adoptive kids, families.
I'm not saying that that's wrong or bad, but people do need legacies.
If all the families are severed, or I'll say a large portion of them as a result
(38:28):
of this, that certainly has a negative impact on society. society.
The other piece that's really dark is the idea of this really being a form of transhumanism.
You know, the push for people to be more online,
to be an avatar, this meta universe that, you know, Zuckerberg is building to
(38:49):
just have everybody be online and your body is kind of a vessel and inconsequential
and you can just chop it up and do whatever you want to it,
you you know, at a whim and then call that like, you know, part of your identity
is it like, we're all sort of playing God here. Like this.
Changing our body i mean you people make these
(39:09):
arguments about plastic surgery and there is a huge parallel and
you know what where is the line for that too the
difference is plastic surgery is not looked at as life-saving health
care so i see them
as very similar i see the problems on both things so
yeah we're we're really dissociating people
(39:29):
from their bodies like you are your body whether you
like it or not and i think that's a
really unhealthy message to give to young people and
so that that's scary for society i mean
basically it's yeah it's it's like every dystopian novel you can think of like
brave new world meets 1984 meets divergent meets i don't know like all these
(39:53):
you know the hunger games like it's like we don't want to live in dystopia And if this keeps going,
we're kind of in it already, but I think we can fight it.
But if we keep going in this direction, it's going to be scary, in my opinion.
Yeah, it is going to be scary. It is getting scary. We are in dystopian territory already.
(40:17):
I completely agree. There is a commonality between the transgender issue and
the transhuman issue. you.
I think in either case, we've objectified the body.
And some might say even like, well, we could say we are our body,
(40:37):
or we could even say we have a body.
But in either case, it's a reflection of something much deeper.
And I think when it comes to issues around philosophy,
philosophy you know even spirituality we
talk about how if a
child is going through a trans identifying crisis then
(41:00):
they can grow out of it they can mature out of it you
know so with psychological development with the
knowledge of who you are comes in
acceptance or an appreciation appreciation
for what you are you know what
you've come into the world as and when we take away
that and we make it make a society that's
(41:22):
just based on like likes and social media appraisal then all of a sudden it's
what's good enough is what society praises where you're getting your likes and
your feedback external instead of coming from inside right it's such an empty existence so So,
I mean, we're seeing this already with social media,
(41:42):
but this vast emptiness in our culture is becoming more and more pervasive.
And I think this trans thing is just one way it's manifesting.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So with regards to that.
Online communities, social media platforms, they are influencing the moral compass of young people.
(42:07):
So how do we counteract that?
Do we have a machine big enough to fight that influence machine?
I think so. You guys are a big part of that. Gays Against Groomers, you guys are awesome.
Because of course the trans community uses gay
people as a shield and say you're and they lump you
(42:28):
all together and say you're anti-lgbtq plus plus and you guys are like oh we
ain't playing that game and that that was a huge huge dagger in their little
plan so that just shows right there that, yes, we have the strength.
We just have to do it, come together and speak up.
(42:51):
But then even just in our own homes, I think we can make a difference because
the way, especially young people get recruited is when they're more isolated
and they don't feel like they belong.
And so if you have a strong family and you are present with your children and
you you are able to show love and, you know, get your kid to participate in life in a positive way,
(43:16):
that right there is a great way to inoculate them from getting sucked into this.
And just being truthful too, not always kind of going along just to be nice.
Yeah. We need parents who are going to tell us what's really going on, not what we want to hear.
If they're going to be, I mean, growing up, you know, you think,
(43:39):
why are they like spanking me or disciplining me? Okay.
Obviously kids of this current generation, not gonna understand what I'm talking
about, but believe it or not, there was a time when, when you did bad,
there was a consequence and then you got, we got, we called the punishment.
And then what would happen is it would create this change in your trajectory.
(44:00):
You'd say, oh, I don't want to do that action anymore. Better choices.
Yeah, I'm going to make different choices, better choices.
And sometimes the only reinforcement of that change in trajectory is somebody's going to be mad at home.
But the bigger lesson is if you try that out in the real world,
(44:21):
you're going to have really bad consequences.
That's why we're creating consequences at home.
And so we don't have that anymore. So we, you know, as I got older,
you know, I'm like, oh, you know, it probably would have been better if I would
have been disciplined more.
Like I see, you know, my peers who maybe had a very disciplined upbringing,
who are very upright and, you know, productive and this, that and the other.
(44:45):
And then I'm thinking, you know, is it just their personality?
Is it their, their stars or, you know, the nature or was it the nurture question?
You know, that's a big point. I mean, probably both. It's hard to say.
But yeah, there's certainly there's certainly an element to that.
Yeah. And then also, I don't think parents realize this, you know,
(45:08):
that I'd say the more progressive ones that are more permissive,
that when you provide structure for your kids, that is a way of showing love to them.
When you're punishing them and you're not just being their friend,
the kids actually know that you love them.
And maybe in the moment they might be yelling at you and say,
I hate you mom or whatever.
(45:28):
But, but really in the end, they know know that you, that you care and that
you love them because if you didn't care, you'd let them, then it means you're
letting them do whatever they want.
And that, that to many kids feels like apathy.
So I know a lot of kids kind of act out because they're looking for someone
to provide that structure for them.
So I've worked with a lot of kids with severe behavioral issues and they would,
(45:51):
I would see that in their behaviors.
And then some of them would actually tell me that, that they were,
you know, that they appreciate when there are rules, because that means that
that someone's looking out for them.
So I think, I think that message gets lost in this permissive parenting culture.
You know, I was just watching a movie. I went and saw Dune two yesterday,
(46:11):
but in order, in order to watch that, I had to watch Dune one.
I couldn't even, it was so long. Yeah, I know.
Well, my spouse wanted to watch it. So I was like, okay, let me get caught up in the first one.
Even though I don't really, I'm not really into like dusty, you know,
movies and stuff like that.
But, But one of the ships landing forever, it can be fun.
(46:35):
But again, too dusty to, you know, grungy for me.
And there was a character who I believe, I believe that's where I was watching
it in the first part, who was like, I'm going to take this other person on as
my assistant because they tell me, and maybe it wasn't even that, they tell me how it is.
You know, they don't just say what I want to hear.
(46:55):
And so when, you know, you get older and you get into a position of responsibility
and then you need to depend on other people to help keep you in check because
you can't do it all on your own.
You appreciate correction with love. You appreciate people telling you the hard truths.
We don't like that as a kid because we don't see any need for that.
(47:15):
But when we get older, it's different. And so now the kids don't have that growing
up. And we grow up like wild animals.
And, you know, what do they say about teaching an old dog new tricks? Can't do it.
And so. Harder at least. Yeah. Exactly. It can be done.
It's just harder. and so they're running amok and they're giving the society
(47:37):
the world the middle finger.
And as far as they're concerned you know they
can do no wrong like i know this one and while they're suffering through it
that's the other thing it's not like they're having fun they feel like they
don't feel good doing being in this chaos that has been created so anyway sorry
i interrupt no right they're lost yeah so there's this one individual i know and she's got a son on am,
(48:03):
I was like, let me talk to this person without going into too many details about my life.
And she said, well, so-and-so, we'll call him Johnny, is playing right now and doesn't want to talk.
Now, I'm the uncle of this person. So naturally, I'm thinking,
(48:24):
huh? What do you mean they're playing?
You're the parent. Tell them to talk on the phone. You're the grown-up.
Yeah. you know and so and this
is a very young mother okay and so it's just
i'm kind of seeing this progression of like the kids
do what they want to do you don't put any rules on them
and then the next generation comes in and says i don't want there to
(48:45):
be any rules of my kid anything they want and it's
just going to keep going in that direction where you don't do the things that
you ought to do because they weren't enforced on you because it was you know
your parent considered it a mark of their freedom to be unencumbered by other
(49:05):
people's expectations or anything like that.
So I didn't mean to go down that rabbit hole, but just to say that if we don't
parent the kids and we let the kids parent us, disaster ahead.
Yeah. I mean, what really good athlete wants a coach that just says you're doing great all the time?
They want a coach that's going to tell them do better and be hard on them so they can improve.
(49:28):
Anybody who really wants to be a better, stronger athlete wants a tough coach, right?
I used to do martial arts and I loved my, you know, my senseis because they
would, you know, be tough on me. I love that.
And you know, there's a balance because there's times where things are hard
and people need a little more of a softer approach.
But at the same time, I feel like we've just swung so far in one direction.
(49:53):
Yeah, no, we have. And it's made the necessity for your book,
which is crazy that we're, you know, down this rabbit hole, but it is a real reality.
And it's the practical response to gender distress. dress.
(50:13):
Yeah, I was going to say in that light, like at the end, I have a whole chapter
on like how to talk to your trans identified teen.
And it's kind of has like a balanced way of, it has ideas because of course
I can't write a script for you and your kid because I don't know you guys.
But what I do is I give you ideas of things you could ask that are open-ended
questions that aren't super confrontational because people on one other side
(50:37):
of the spectrum are really confrontational and just start kind of yelling at the kid and saying,
you know, you're, you know, there's only two genders.
And, you know, that, that kind of doesn't help once the kid's already indoctrinated
by the trans people, but then also not just going along with it either.
So they're like, I kind of talk, give tips so you can be a little more middle ground.
(50:58):
And to, to really figure out which side or of the pendulum to lean on that I can't really say,
say but it's it's really more of a trial and error thing and
you're not probably not going to say the right thing but these are
just things to try one one example of
a question is like what does it mean to be trans for you you know
to ask the kid just like generally being curious rather than be like you're
(51:21):
not trans stop it right you're like well what does that mean to you and have
them and see what they say and most likely they won't have a real answer because
it's so vague and they they probably hadn't really thought about it.
They just are kind of going along with it.
And a lot of the questions might be a hard upsetting because you're,
you're kind of poking holes in their ideas, but hopefully cumulatively it might,
(51:45):
it might help them get back to reality.
So that, so that's sort of the goal. And those are some of the tips that I have in there.
That's amazing. That is a really important part of your book,
because communicating is the biggest problem that people are facing.
You know, parents don't know what their kids have been told all day,
(52:06):
and they also don't know the right answer, because so many landmines have been
set up in the minds of these kids to say they're going to say this.
And that's yeah that's transphobic right there
and so it really it really
is a trial and error game with whoever you're talking
to to see how far developed they are how well they
understand their own situation etc so well pamela garfield yeager we had such
(52:33):
an amazing talk with you today and i thank you so much for your time would you
for our viewers and listeners again share share your web address,
your book title, all that.
Okay, I got the book here sitting next to me, so I'll do this.
A practical response to gender distress.
It's pink and blue. I have a picture of this like kind of warped family on the trans flag.
(52:55):
That's what the meaning of that is. Because as we said earlier in our conversation,
this is about destroying families and my goal is to strengthen families.
So that's what's that. I have a website called the truthfultherapist.org.
And you could actually book a one-on-one consultation with me via Zoom if you
have questions, need help maybe figuring out if mental health therapy in your
(53:21):
family could be helpful or not.
Really a lot of what I do is empower parents. Like I don't tell you what to
do. I really want you to believe in yourself.
So that's a lot of it. I kind of hear what's going on in your family and just
ask some basic questions so that you kind of know where to go from there.
I have an Instagram, which is the dot truthful therapist.
(53:43):
My Twitter is truth therapist. I couldn't do the because it doesn't fit in Twitter.
I have a sub stack, which is Pam, the truthful therapist.
So the truthful therapist is the theme here. I'm a truthful therapist and that's
a lot of what my handles are.
So if you Google my name and truthful therapist, you'll find stuff information from me.
(54:04):
Great. Yes. You are well known as a truthful, truthful therapist and other question
or actually other statement.
I hear this book's doing pretty good on Amazon. Amazon, where does it sit right now?
Well, I mean, they have these categories and it's fun to watch like how they rank.
And right now I'm in number one in the teen LGBTQ plus books category.
(54:31):
And it's really fun because mine's on the top and then below it are all the
kind of disgusting, really sexually explicit books that like Moms for Liberty
and you guys have been pushing back back against.
So it's kind of fun to see mine sitting on top of these like icky ones.
Like there's one called All Boys Aren't Blue, which is really,
sounds innocent kind of, but it's not inside.
(54:53):
This book is gay. Anyway, mine's on top of those on that list. So that's fun.
And then, yeah, it's, it's also...
Like you know these things i don't know how to calculate because
it keeps changing but that there's a there's the general lgbtq
plus and demographic issues books and
it's been sitting at like between like six and ten
and keeps moving around so that's fun to watch
(55:16):
yeah so i appreciate the support
and hopefully more people buy it and
more people will read it then like just word it'll get word of
mouth it'll sell itself that way
so yeah it's it's pretty easy read
it's not very it's not weighed down by a lot
of like history and theory and i
(55:38):
don't even use a lot of clinical language it's really
for someone who just really just wants the
facts and wants like what to do practically and then
the very end it has a ton of resources so pretty
much every website other books like
tons of other films you guys gaze against groomers
are listed in the resources i have pictures
(56:00):
and graphics i i even use i think i assume
jamie did it from gaze against groomers like her graphics save the tomboys from
you guys you know so it's got like pictures in addition to words to really get
get the message across for people to understand what's going on and how to fight
it excellent that's amazing well i hope everybody checks out pamela garfield jaeger's book,
(56:22):
A Practical Response to Gender Distress,
Tips and Tools for Families.
And follow us on.
Spotify, iHeartRadio, iTunes, Podbean, wherever podcasts are held.
And it was great talking to you, Pamela. Thank you so much. Let's do it again sometime.
(56:44):
Appreciate it. Yes. All right. Thank you.
This episode of The Dark Side of the Rainbow is sponsored by us.
We wanted to let you know that we have a huge online store full of official,
gotta get the official, Gays Against Groomers merch.
Each purchase really helps us continue our fight, and it's also a great way
(00:23):
to spread an important message. So, check it out at shop.gaysagainstgroomers.com.
That's shop.gaysagainstgroomers.com. And to learn more about our organization,
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(00:44):
And if you're interested in sponsoring this program, please reach out at podcast
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Music.
(01:08):
Welcome to the Dark Side of the Rainbow. My name is Robert Wallace,
and you're going to hear an interview that I did today with a woman who just
wrote a book that is going to help a lot of people.
The book is called A Practical Response to Gender Distress, Tips and Tools for Families.
(01:29):
This is written by Pamela Garfield Yeager, and she has a lot of interesting
insight into the war on children as we're experiencing it right now.
Now, so I encourage you to listen to this interview and visit her website and
Gays Against Rumors dot com for more information and resources.
(01:53):
If you happen to be dealing with this issue or you want to get involved, enjoy the interview.
All right. So we're here with Pamela Garfield Yeager.
She's just produced a new book. Could you show that book to us,
Pamela? Yeah, I have it right here.
Gender Distress. Practical Response to Gender Distress. It's kind of a mouthful,
(02:15):
but that's the name I ended up with.
We'll talk more about it. But the reason I titled that is because there's a
lot of practical things inside. side.
Excellent. Yeah, I've been through it a bit. It's an amazing book.
There's a lot of people who've also reviewed it who think it's very needed right now.
(02:35):
So I love that for you. I love that for all of us. Thank you. You're welcome.
So I'm going to launch a few questions at you and then we'll hear your insight
on it. Okay. What you think.
So how do you believe that the normalization of of a hyper-sexualized culture
(02:55):
is eroding traditional values and impacting the moral fabric of society.
Oh my gosh. I know, it's a mouthful. Let me simplify it. The normalization of
hyper-sexuality, what's wrong with it?
Yeah, well, I mean, that is the... Actually, one of the people who reviewed
(03:16):
my book, James Lindsay, talks a lot about this.
This is the the pinnacle of queer theory, which is basically turn everything
normal and make that abnormal and make things that are abnormal, normal.
So it's basically, we are turning our world upside down.
I think it's, it's creating the people that are, I think this is now where you're right.
(03:38):
You started me off the, out of the gate conspiracy talk, but the,
the people I think that are leading this, it's probably not the people that
are, you know, just sort of going along or,
you know, have been taught this, but the people that I think are pushing it
from above, I think their goal is to destroy society.
If we keep going in this direction, we are going to destroy society and we're
(04:02):
going to destroy families.
We're going to destroy just like all of the order that we have. We just...
Our basic values and yeah chaos
absolutely what do
you think is the responsibility of the boots on the
ground the parents the schools society and
(04:25):
in preserving what we have or what we had from those influences yeah i mean
i think the biggest responsibility is is to speak up and to and not pretend
or not dismiss that this is serious.
So to acknowledge that this is serious and to do something about it.
(04:45):
And when I say do something, I know not everyone's going to write a book and
everyone's going to have an Instagram page with viral reels or whatever.
But we can talk to our neighbors. We can go to church. We can say,
we're not going to go along with this.
If they make you say pronouns at work, don't do it.
And you can even explain why.
(05:07):
Like, I'm not going to do this. This is causing problems in society.
And I'm not, this is not something I agree with.
So, so I think those little things go a long way. People are afraid to,
they don't want to make waves or they're, they're just want to get along.
And I think we can be respectful and we can, but we can speak up because there
is this sort of false consensus, I think that's happening because so many people are self-silencing.
(05:30):
So if we can break that that silent majority you know to actually speak up about
it and not let kids get sucked into this so easily i think that would go a long long way yeah.
Yeah it would we're the first line of defense between the kids and the outside
(05:51):
influences yeah we're protecting the kids yeah i mean that's obviously your
entire thing and that's so yeah I think I think it's weird that.
There are a lot of people now that don't recognize that protecting innocents
of children is important, and that if you don't do that, that that will disrupt
their psychological development.
(06:13):
One of the things I talk about in my book, actually, is the reason a lot of
kids are gravitating towards being trans is because they're exposed to porn
at too young of an age, or very hyper-sexualized things.
I don't know if you can call it traumatism, but it impacts them them to the
point where they do not want to grow up to be the man or woman that they're
(06:35):
supposed to be because they're afraid of what they saw.
And then they also don't learn how to interact with each other.
So all these things, all these ways that kids are not being protected,
we need to protect the children.
Yeah, it kind of makes me wonder about, you know, how the first thing you were
saying is, you know, it really seems like a top-down operation.
(06:55):
Seems like we have influences that are telling organizations how to run and
then they are They're raising up their own leadership who's following orders.
But it makes me think about the individuals themselves who are so happy-go-lucky about pushing this.
Because it's almost like they are projecting their own wild youthfulness,
(07:18):
their own rebellious, you know, heart,
in a sense, in a way that will create a new world.
So like when we're kids, we think, you know, abolish the establishment or,
you know, we should be able to do whatever we want and, you know,
lawlessness because, you know, freedom.
And yeah, it really is because you need those boundaries to experience freedom.
(07:43):
And then you put these people in leadership and then all of a sudden they're
kind of like, you know, pushing it out there like they want to see like an experiment
what's going to happen in the world if everybody just does whatever they want.
Yeah, I don't know what they think. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just taking a minute to speculate.
What do you think that the current emphasis on transgender issues is doing to
(08:07):
undermine societal norms, particularly gender roles?
Yeah, I mean, it's weird. So the WPATH files just came out. I'm sure you're very familiar.
Michael Schellenberger kind of led that effort.
Another woman named Mia Hughes wrote it to give them credit.
And they got a lot of inside information from WPATH.
(08:28):
That's the organization that supposedly the experts that are quoted to say,
well, this, they say this is the right way to do things.
But what the WPath files did was expose that they're really corrupt and they
don't know what they're doing and that they're...
You know, it's pseudoscience and it's activists and not doctors and ethical therapists. So.
(08:54):
What do you think the current emphasis and the gender issue roles is doing to
undermine societal norms, particularly around gender roles? Oh, right.
So, yeah. So what Michael Schellberger was saying when we were having this conversation,
when the WPATH files came out, which is these files that show the corruption of WPATH,
(09:17):
that he couldn't understand how we went from the 70s, where we had this cartoon
and this show and record really called Free to Be You and Me.
And that was where I, you know, those are the stuff I grew up with,
which was basically that boys and girls, that the message was boys and girls can do what they want.
You don't have to be locked into these rigid stereotypes.
(09:40):
However, the transgender movement has kind of
set us backwards where now if you
are a boy that likes to play with dolls or
a girl that likes to play with trucks like they they just put
them on puberty blockers and say that that kid is trans and basically are trying
to convert them out of being just like a human being in certain ways so it's
(10:02):
taken away i'd say the the classical liberal perspective of boys and girls can
have have different personalities,
different interests, and it doesn't make them any less of a man or a woman.
But the trans movement has completely turned that upside down.
Yeah, it really has. What do you think could be done, should be done?
(10:24):
Is there a line of permissiveness when dealing with, okay, you got a child who's
going through their sexual maturation, their identity is developing in terms of puberty and all this.
And maybe they're having issues like, I don't know if I'm gay or if I'm a toaster
(10:44):
or whatever the thing is.
What is like a healthy way, do you think, of dealing with somebody in that situation?
Yeah. I mean, what I really think is children need to be grounded in truth.
They need to know. I think a lot of times when a child says, am I a boy or a girl?
And there isn't even that cartoon in a free to be you and me where these babies
(11:05):
are trying to to figure out if they're a boy or a girl.
And the skit ends where a nurse changes a diaper and then they can see under
the diaper that they're a boy or a girl. And there's this big sense of relief.
Oh, I'm a boy. I'm a girl.
And they just want to know. And children are looking to adults to understand
the world and to understand truth.
(11:26):
And so if they're starting to think that they're a toaster or a cat or something,
you could say, well, that's fun to pretend, but you are a a little boy or a little girl.
And that'll actually ease their anxiety, it'll help them.
Grow up and figure out who they are
like that will help their identity because that is just who they are
(11:46):
they can't just decide to be something else it's interesting
so you're almost saying that if a parent didn't affirm every will-o'-the-wisp
notion that came through a child's
mind they might actually have a strengthened sense of who they are.
(12:09):
I think so. Okay. Yeah, it's a strengthening of who they are and then where
they fit in the world, right?
And understanding of the world.
If everything's changing all the time all around them between who they are and what they could be,
and then their peers or even their parents or other adults,
their teacher, has new pronouns every other day,
(12:30):
that's that creates a lot of chaos and anxiety
especially for a young person that doesn't understand is not
grounded in truth that's hard for children and
i think that's one of i mean we could get into it all day but
one of the reasons why i think kids are having more anxious more
anxiety yeah definitely it feels kind of like a throwback to go into this way
(12:52):
of thinking where you know you parented the kids and the kids weren't parenting
the adults yeah yeah it's That's what's happening in a lot of cases.
It seems like the adults are the children.
And there's this weird philosophy, let's let the child lead,
which it seems like it's a big overcompensation for, you know,
(13:12):
when in the past when children were supposed to be seen, not heard, right? And at all.
And I feel like the needle has moved so far now that the children need to be
heard no matter what, even when they want to be a toaster, we go along with
it. And that's just, it's gone too far and it's harmful.
Yeah, no, it definitely has. And so that's why your book is so important right now.
(13:39):
It's because it's actually like relevant to talk about how to practically deal with this phenomena.
Yeah, it's really, it just gives very specific practical tools and also just
combats a lot of the common lies that are out there that, and people who aren't
following this topic as closely as like we are,
(13:59):
you know, So I realized I had this clinical knowledge, understanding childhood
development and just working with families.
And then also, you know, being in this space of talking about this and learning
about it and reading how things have been unfolding for the last few years.
I felt like I was in a special position to write this book to help other people
that don't watch this stuff every day.
(14:22):
Absolutely. Yeah, when you're enmeshed in it, it's kind of like it becomes old hat to talk about,
but it's still a brand new topic for most of the world who's not so concentrated
on this and they're distracted and this is happening until it's happening.
It's not affecting them, so they don't really think about it that much.
(14:44):
Yeah, so I kind of wrote this for what I say, the normies, the people that aren't
immersed in this topic every day.
Yeah, it's a good introduction, too, for people who will have that wake up call one day.
You know, they'll find out this book was written three years ago by Pamela Garfield Yeager.
(15:05):
Now it's relevant in my life. Exactly. Because Johnny is now a dragon or whatever.
Right. And whatever the cool thing is three years from now is.
Is but of course you know they'll try to
say the trans activists will try to say all
this is natural which is it's really hard to
believe that common sense has been lost yeah you know we were just kind of talking
(15:32):
about whether or not this is a top-down thing i think we all kind of acknowledge
that it is to the degree that it just didn't grow up organically around us.
From your viewpoint is this to the
trans issues trans identifying issues come out
of something that is
at all natural is it
(15:55):
all pathological is it all nurture yeah
i have a whole chapter in my book actually this is i think
it's called why are the kids choosing to be trans something like
that and i go into all the different underlying reasons and all the under all
the influences influences that could be causing someone to believe that they're
(16:15):
trans a lot of this is philosophical so you know it depends on who you talk
to but what what i'll just say what i believe.
That I believe it's coming from external sources. There are people that have
a very strong discomfort in their body and, or a strong longing to be the opposite sex.
(16:38):
And that might not always come from like a TikTok video or Reddit or something like that.
It might be coming from something else, but usually when you dig deeper,
someone who feels that really strong discomfort in their body,
There is something else going on.
And in most cases, when it's that pervasive, usually there's some kind of sexual
trauma in their history that they've learned to hate their body or dissociate
(17:02):
from their body. I feel really uncomfortable. comfortable.
But yeah, they're all different kind of scenarios of why someone might gravitate
towards this and different influences.
But I do not believe that it's like a nature thing.
I don't think someone is actually born in the wrong body, either adult or kids.
(17:23):
But what I can't argue is that I don't know if the choice of taking hormones
and getting surgeries might be the right choice for a very select few amount of people.
I can't argue that. So maybe that's true because I can't read everyone's minds.
It's kind of what I say in the book.
(17:43):
But what I can say is that hormones and surgeries are extremely harmful to the body.
So you make that choice and you know you're making a choice to harm your health.
You're making a choice most likely to sterilize yourself. self.
And you might be digging deep, falling deeper into a hole away from the things
(18:05):
that might help you feel comfortable in your body,
meaning like perhaps the sexual trauma, because doing that often is a way to
escape, you know, you kind of shed a skin.
So it's hard to say if it's the right choice for everyone.
But do I think that there's like an actual like gene or birth defect or something
like that? Let's just say there's no proof of that.
(18:27):
So that leads me to my next question.
What do you see as the underlying moral decay contributing to not just trans-identifying
individuals, but the suicide rates among children and adolescents?
Even a really high amount of suicides after transition.
(18:49):
Yeah, the whole suicide thing, that's their weapon, right?
That's the thing they use to, I call it emotional blackmail,
to blackmail parents to go along with this.
For people, for even legislatures that are thinking about laws around this,
they're worried that they're going to do suicide by preventing these gender
(19:09):
procedures. procedures.
However, it's all a lie. And it's really what it is a sort of a half truth about the suicide.
And the reason for that is because the people that tend to gravitate towards
the transgender world, they have usually have underlying mental health issues
that would lead them to be more suicidal.
(19:31):
So they have the data to show that yes, trans people are more more suicidal.
But we have no proof to show that affirming them is going to prevent that suicide.
So like you said, there are suicides both before someone might transition and
after or during or however you want to measure that.
So there is a decay because we just keep talking about suicide and we keep almost
(19:57):
glamorizing it, using it as a weapon.
We're teaching all people, but mostly young people, that to get what they want,
they can just say, I'm going to kill myself.
And that's the way they're being taught. That's how they should be accepted
and loved is to just tell everybody they're going to kill themselves.
I mean, that's the lesson because we're reinforcing that by saying,
(20:20):
oh, okay, we have to do this now.
So yeah, it's a huge decay.
And really, if you like to get into the clinical terms of it,
these are the symptoms or traits of a person with with a personality disorder.
And when someone has a personality disorder, a lot of the treatment is to help
them learn ways to ask for what they want and what they need without threatening
(20:43):
suicide so that they can build stronger relationships,
you know, that aren't about blackmail.
Because of course, someone in the moment is going to say, okay, I'll do what you need.
Like, I won't break up with you, for example, because I'm afraid my boyfriend's going to kill himself.
So I won't break up with him, but
that's not going to make a long lasting relationship or true connection.
(21:05):
So that's kind of what we're doing here by keep using this suicide narrative
is we're teaching them that this is the way they get what they want.
This is the way they connect with the world and super unhealthy.
Yeah. And to use your word, it is creating a decay. Okay.
Do you think, we know that there's
(21:25):
a high percentage of autism among the trans-identifying population.
I don't think it. I know that, yes. Right, right. We know this.
And so I wonder, you know, it's kind of like what came first, the chicken or the egg.
What came first, the trans-identification or the suicidal tendencies?
(21:47):
Dependencies, I wonder if a lot of the mental stress that leads somebody to
conclude that ending their life might be some kind of solution might somehow
be tied in with that lack of self-confidence or a sense of identity,
which leads them to start exploring these alternative routes to begin with.
(22:10):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's all circular. I'm not
sure which is the chicken or the egg but i do
believe if there weren't all the influences out there in the
media and politics and commercials just
on the town where there are flags you know when you go to the coffee shop if
like all these things weren't in front of us all the time i don't i think someone
(22:32):
who had who felt a little lost lonely doesn't is struggling to fit in or having
just having other struggles they might not land on the transgender identity.
They might land on something else. They might just have other difficulties.
But I think that there's this expansion of trans is because of all these external influences.
(22:52):
What I see is that all these trans influences are preying on the vulnerable is how I see it.
And the autistic people are one of the biggest groups out there that are being preyed upon.
They're being marketed to is what they are. They have their own flag.
They have several flags.
I actually, I made this little reference in my book. Like if anybody's seen
(23:14):
the show, Big Bang Theory,
Sheldon Cooper, that character who's has autistic traits, he had a little TV
show called Fun with Flags, you know, and it's, it's a joke.
It's funny in the show, but I mean, that's what they're doing with the,
the trans thing that you get a flag, you
know and autistic people like that because it's
(23:36):
concrete and they feel like it represents them
and it gives them a sense of belonging yeah yep i know that reference i've seen
young sheldon too that's a pretty great show i actually didn't i didn't get
into that one yeah i had some reservations about the character but overall it's a fabulous show,
(24:00):
But yeah, I know what you're talking about. The next question kind of answers
itself because it has a lot to do with the fact that you wrote this book and it's really about like,
how do we empower parents and educators and mental health professionals to promote
the traditional kind of common sense principles.
(24:20):
Upon which our identities are built?
How do you? Yeah, that's my entire mission is to empower parents because I think
that's one element of this is how I think how we've gotten to this place is
that parents have deferred too much to experts and they don't believe in themselves
the way they used to. As parents, they think, well, I'm just a mom.
(24:43):
I don't have degrees. I didn't study psychology or I didn't study medicine.
So I'm going to listen to this doctor who has the white coat and the letters
behind their name. So my goal is for you as a parent to believe in yourself.
If something doesn't feel right, to not ignore that feeling and to ask more
(25:03):
questions, to question things.
Because just because the experts say doesn't mean it's good and it's true.
I don't think we need to dismiss literally every single thing an expert says.
However, I do think we should never listen to experts blindly and we should
very much believe in ourselves. And when someone, for example,
(25:24):
says, would you rather have a dead daughter or a live son?
And your daughter has never shown any signs of trans until they were on YouTube
for several hours a day recently.
And you know that this is because your child was influenced from the internet.
Don't listen to that doctor.
Think for yourself. self. And that's a lot of what this book is about.
(25:49):
It is to empower parents, to give them the knowledge so that they can say exactly,
like counter a lot of these lies that are being told.
And I kind of say some things that are like clinical, if you're talking to a
therapist, like, why are you, you know, teaching my child things that are against
what dialectical behavior,
(26:10):
dialectical behavioral therapy teaches, which is, you know, to,
you know, ask for help appropriately Why are you talking about suicide in front of my child?
We know that that's not, you know, that goes against the guidelines for suicide prevention.
And really, and just the basic question, can you show me the data that you're
quoting this from? Like, where are you getting this idea from?
(26:32):
Like, they're basically just parroting it without understanding or they've never
read the studies because all the studies that they quote are,
they're false, and they've been retracted.
So ask them to literally show you this study so you can look at it and see that
there may be like five participants or no control group. None of them have control groups.
(26:53):
So all these things like push back, ask questions and have discernment.
Wow, that was like the golden hammer for that whole phraseology that gets pushed,
you know, dead daughter, living son thing.
I have a whole chapter on that, so yeah. Yeah.
(27:14):
Well, good. People need to get through this and discern the anecdotal from the real.
Yeah, there's two things. There's one, like, the data is just false,
so it's a lie. And then there's just the common sense of, like, this is just wrong.
Like, it's just wrong. You don't talk about suicide to a kid in front of them
and say that they're going to kill themselves.
What, do you have a magic ball or something? How can anybody know someone's
(27:37):
going to kill themselves?
Even if we've had this data, which we don't, you can't, you would never do that.
Like if you, someone is at high risk of suicide, you never sit there and be
like, well, they're going to kill themselves.
You know, like, no, don't, you don't do that. That's just wrong.
And I would push back if I were a parent. I mean, God, if any expert did that
to me, oh, they'd get a mouthful.
(28:02):
Absolutely let me ask you then what do you feel like or what do you think based on your experience,
should the world look like should society kind of be like with regards to okay
so there's gay people in the world there's people who identify as trans we don't
(28:22):
need flags up everywhere we go we don't need propaganda reminding us of that that.
How could all this fit into the delicate ecosystem of our culture?
Well, I mean, I really wish I had a time machine.
And maybe if we could just take, you know, the DeLorean to back to,
I'm not sure what year, maybe like 1994 or something.
(28:43):
The way the world was then, that would be ideal for me. I liked it then when
it comes to this gender stuff.
It wasn't every day. There were people who were gender nonconforming.
I'd say gays and lesbians were mostly accepted.
There wasn't gay marriage yet, but there, you know, there was,
it was just a level of acceptance that was okay.
(29:04):
And it just wasn't on everyone's radar. There wasn't virtue signaling all the
time. People were just living their lives.
People were allowed to think for themselves and things were certainly not pushed on children.
So, I mean, those are the things I'd like to see. I don't know if that's the particular year.
I mean, you could pick apart things, but it's just, it's just, things have gone crazy.
(29:25):
I think even those of us who are observing it or, you know, can't unsee it,
it's, we still, we have to be numb to it to a degree to get through our day.
And it'd be nice to not have to do that, you know, to not have to,
gosh, now I want to get coffee and now I have to walk through this,
you know, trans flag, you know, on the door. And it's just like, really?
(29:46):
Do I have to have this in front of my face? And like, sometimes I'm with someone,
I get irritated by it and they're like, oh, just whatever, Pam, let it go for now.
Out and I'm like I just want
I just wish I didn't have to like when
I'm just trying to go about my day that I didn't get like slapped in the face
by it and I'm an adult I grew up when I didn't need I didn't see all that stuff
(30:10):
so kids are seeing it all the time so it'd be yeah it'd be nice if society could
just let it go and stop trying to tell other people how to think and feel all the time.
Yeah. What degree of this growth and phenomena of this trans and queer identifying
youth do you think is just pure social contagion?
(30:33):
Yeah, I mean, I'd say most of it.
I can't put a number, but I'd say almost all of it.
Yeah, it's hard to say. I mean, if it's if it's constantly in their faces.
Yeah, I have like in the book, I go into like all these different influences.
And I show the picture of when the White House had the trans flag up in the
(30:54):
middle, you know, on Pride Month.
And, you know, it was just in our faces constantly.
How could that not have an influence? I just I just don't understand how anyone
can think it's natural after, you know, this is the world we live in.
Right what do you think is
the difference between gay people and
(31:16):
the trans trans agenda
let's say i mean obviously we
know the difference of sexual orientation versus i'm in
the wrong body completely right but you know
we see in these two like you were just saying we've had the
trans pride flag flown during
gay pride month the progress flag the progress
(31:38):
flag that's right like the communist flag actually in my opinion but
yeah there's a lot of stuff going on there they've been they're
including race on that now you see the brown and black stripes it's nothing
to do with sexuality nothing to do with being lost in space in the wrong body
and nothing to do with you know being attracted to the same sex now it's pretty
much everybody but straight white male and female.
(32:04):
So what's the difference between that and gay? I mean, the biggest one is you
don't need procedures to be gay, right?
You don't need to be a lifelong medical patient and provide lots of profit for big pharma to be gay.
So that's probably the biggest difference. difference i
do this is probably not politically correct for your podcast but
i i do think there are especially kids that
(32:27):
are wanting they're opting to be
gay or exploring their gayness when
they might not otherwise because they don't want to just be that normal straight
head cis whatever and so they might choose to be gay for a while too i'm not
saying i don't believe i believe that you know some gay people it's not a choice
(32:47):
that's my belief but i i do think that there are influences there too.
So, but either way, like if you decide to be gay, you're not chopping off body parts.
You're not creating disabilities. You're not sterilizing anybody.
You can decide that if it's true, you could just like a young person could decide that was a phase.
(33:08):
I mean, I remember like, you know, in the nineties, like when I was going to
college, like that was a phase for a lot of young women, like to explore,
you know, am I lesbian or not?
And then they decided they weren't right so none of
them lost their breasts through that exploration phase none of them sterilized
themselves through that and then maybe some of them realized that they were
lesbians and you know that's fine too but that's that's the big difference right
(33:32):
when you're trying to figure yourself out you're not making lifelong uh damage to your body.
Absolutely. I mean, even as a gay person, don't tell anybody that I told you
this, Pamela, but I am a homosexual.
Oh, I'll keep your secret.
Uh you know i had a couple of experiences with
(33:53):
a couple ladies we'll say some so-called girlfriends
and that was completely sparred on
by the peer pressure to assimilate
toward a you know heteronormative society or to find myself as being straight
so if you know if myself in that situation situation can cause myself to try
(34:16):
to experiment opposite to what I really was.
You know, I think that says a lot about what you just said, how it also can go the other way.
You can have very straight people looking around at this trend thinking, maybe if I just try,
or maybe if I did this or that, you know, maybe there's some angle and it's
(34:41):
unfortunate confusion there. Yeah.
And, and you're rewarded for it now, which is weird.
You can't just be right. Like if you're a gay man, that's cool.
You just are, you know, if I'm a straight woman, I just am.
And that's cool. But there's like social rewards now for doing or being certain
identities, especially for young people and their peer groups, you know, teenagers,
(35:03):
you know, you're boring and, you know, lame if you're just like a regular cishet,
especially if you're white. I mean, that's like a big sin.
Right. Right. So they're being they're being trained to hate themselves.
So, of course, they want to explore and choose to be something else.
Yeah. Yep. It's definitely not healthy. It's not it's not natural.
(35:27):
Not natural. So that's another thing to think about. Like, you know,
what are the messages your kids getting at school among their peers and then
also maybe from their teachers and the curriculums, social, emotional learning?
It's teaching a lot of kids to hate themselves for simply how they were born.
And so if you learn to hate yourself, then you might want to have another identity.
(35:50):
You might want to change your name and your look and then get a bunch of flags
and a parade and perhaps even an assembly and told that you're stunning and brave.
That makes sense. And you just made an interesting point, because not only are
people being shamed into hating who they are,
but they're also being rewarded for changing that identity.
(36:15):
Exactly yes definitely yeah yeah it's all over hollywood is everywhere like
there i believe there's a lot of people that wouldn't be seen the time of day
if they were just a regular straight,
person even if they're really talented yeah people are yeah there are other
people are getting the recognition just for their identities i mean it's like
(36:35):
the woke olympics in hollywood now,
Exactly. It's like some kind of, who's going to say social engineering full on right now.
All right. So we've got a little bit of time left.
So I'm going to just ask you a couple more questions. okay and
(36:57):
anything you want to originate please do what are
the potential consequences of deviating from
traditional gender norms and
promoting gender non-conformity in young people i mean yeah of course we're
looking at it we're looking at suicide we're looking at depression and mental
illness and regret what does it
(37:19):
look like in 20 40 years from now this generation yeah it looks Looks bad.
There's my answer. I mean, you can get really dark with it.
We're talking about sterilizing a generation and not being able to build families,
(37:44):
you know, destroying the family.
We're destroying families. They're severing kids from their current parents.
And then we're also making it more difficult for them to build future families.
The trans people would say, oh, it's fine. We can just do, you know,
IVF or, you know, freeze eggs or, you know, make, it's all simple, right?
Like just whatever, you know, just do it.
(38:06):
Of course, that's more money for the fertility business, but it's not the same.
It's not the same kind of connection when you're dealing with kids,
adoptive kids, families.
I'm not saying that that's wrong or bad, but people do need legacies.
If all the families are severed, or I'll say a large portion of them as a result
(38:28):
of this, that certainly has a negative impact on society. society.
The other piece that's really dark is the idea of this really being a form of transhumanism.
You know, the push for people to be more online,
to be an avatar, this meta universe that, you know, Zuckerberg is building to
(38:49):
just have everybody be online and your body is kind of a vessel and inconsequential
and you can just chop it up and do whatever you want to it,
you you know, at a whim and then call that like, you know, part of your identity
is it like, we're all sort of playing God here. Like this.
Changing our body i mean you people make these
(39:09):
arguments about plastic surgery and there is a huge parallel and
you know what where is the line for that too the
difference is plastic surgery is not looked at as life-saving health
care so i see them
as very similar i see the problems on both things so
yeah we're we're really dissociating people
(39:29):
from their bodies like you are your body whether you
like it or not and i think that's a
really unhealthy message to give to young people and
so that that's scary for society i mean
basically it's yeah it's it's like every dystopian novel you can think of like
brave new world meets 1984 meets divergent meets i don't know like all these
(39:53):
you know the hunger games like it's like we don't want to live in dystopia And if this keeps going,
we're kind of in it already, but I think we can fight it.
But if we keep going in this direction, it's going to be scary, in my opinion.
Yeah, it is going to be scary. It is getting scary. We are in dystopian territory already.
(40:17):
I completely agree. There is a commonality between the transgender issue and
the transhuman issue. you.
I think in either case, we've objectified the body.
And some might say even like, well, we could say we are our body,
(40:37):
or we could even say we have a body.
But in either case, it's a reflection of something much deeper.
And I think when it comes to issues around philosophy,
philosophy you know even spirituality we
talk about how if a
child is going through a trans identifying crisis then
(41:00):
they can grow out of it they can mature out of it you
know so with psychological development with the
knowledge of who you are comes in
acceptance or an appreciation appreciation
for what you are you know what
you've come into the world as and when we take away
that and we make it make a society that's
(41:22):
just based on like likes and social media appraisal then all of a sudden it's
what's good enough is what society praises where you're getting your likes and
your feedback external instead of coming from inside right it's such an empty existence so So,
I mean, we're seeing this already with social media,
(41:42):
but this vast emptiness in our culture is becoming more and more pervasive.
And I think this trans thing is just one way it's manifesting.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So with regards to that.
Online communities, social media platforms, they are influencing the moral compass of young people.
(42:07):
So how do we counteract that?
Do we have a machine big enough to fight that influence machine?
I think so. You guys are a big part of that. Gays Against Groomers, you guys are awesome.
Because of course the trans community uses gay
people as a shield and say you're and they lump you
(42:28):
all together and say you're anti-lgbtq plus plus and you guys are like oh we
ain't playing that game and that that was a huge huge dagger in their little
plan so that just shows right there that, yes, we have the strength.
We just have to do it, come together and speak up.
(42:51):
But then even just in our own homes, I think we can make a difference because
the way, especially young people get recruited is when they're more isolated
and they don't feel like they belong.
And so if you have a strong family and you are present with your children and
you you are able to show love and, you know, get your kid to participate in life in a positive way,
(43:16):
that right there is a great way to inoculate them from getting sucked into this.
And just being truthful too, not always kind of going along just to be nice.
Yeah. We need parents who are going to tell us what's really going on, not what we want to hear.
If they're going to be, I mean, growing up, you know, you think,
(43:39):
why are they like spanking me or disciplining me? Okay.
Obviously kids of this current generation, not gonna understand what I'm talking
about, but believe it or not, there was a time when, when you did bad,
there was a consequence and then you got, we got, we called the punishment.
And then what would happen is it would create this change in your trajectory.
(44:00):
You'd say, oh, I don't want to do that action anymore. Better choices.
Yeah, I'm going to make different choices, better choices.
And sometimes the only reinforcement of that change in trajectory is somebody's going to be mad at home.
But the bigger lesson is if you try that out in the real world,
(44:21):
you're going to have really bad consequences.
That's why we're creating consequences at home.
And so we don't have that anymore. So we, you know, as I got older,
you know, I'm like, oh, you know, it probably would have been better if I would
have been disciplined more.
Like I see, you know, my peers who maybe had a very disciplined upbringing,
who are very upright and, you know, productive and this, that and the other.
(44:45):
And then I'm thinking, you know, is it just their personality?
Is it their, their stars or, you know, the nature or was it the nurture question?
You know, that's a big point. I mean, probably both. It's hard to say.
But yeah, there's certainly there's certainly an element to that.
Yeah. And then also, I don't think parents realize this, you know,
(45:08):
that I'd say the more progressive ones that are more permissive,
that when you provide structure for your kids, that is a way of showing love to them.
When you're punishing them and you're not just being their friend,
the kids actually know that you love them.
And maybe in the moment they might be yelling at you and say,
I hate you mom or whatever.
(45:28):
But, but really in the end, they know know that you, that you care and that
you love them because if you didn't care, you'd let them, then it means you're
letting them do whatever they want.
And that, that to many kids feels like apathy.
So I know a lot of kids kind of act out because they're looking for someone
to provide that structure for them.
So I've worked with a lot of kids with severe behavioral issues and they would,
(45:51):
I would see that in their behaviors.
And then some of them would actually tell me that, that they were,
you know, that they appreciate when there are rules, because that means that
that someone's looking out for them.
So I think, I think that message gets lost in this permissive parenting culture.
You know, I was just watching a movie. I went and saw Dune two yesterday,
(46:11):
but in order, in order to watch that, I had to watch Dune one.
I couldn't even, it was so long. Yeah, I know.
Well, my spouse wanted to watch it. So I was like, okay, let me get caught up in the first one.
Even though I don't really, I'm not really into like dusty, you know,
movies and stuff like that.
But, But one of the ships landing forever, it can be fun.
(46:35):
But again, too dusty to, you know, grungy for me.
And there was a character who I believe, I believe that's where I was watching
it in the first part, who was like, I'm going to take this other person on as
my assistant because they tell me, and maybe it wasn't even that, they tell me how it is.
You know, they don't just say what I want to hear.
(46:55):
And so when, you know, you get older and you get into a position of responsibility
and then you need to depend on other people to help keep you in check because
you can't do it all on your own.
You appreciate correction with love. You appreciate people telling you the hard truths.
We don't like that as a kid because we don't see any need for that.
(47:15):
But when we get older, it's different. And so now the kids don't have that growing
up. And we grow up like wild animals.
And, you know, what do they say about teaching an old dog new tricks? Can't do it.
And so. Harder at least. Yeah. Exactly. It can be done.
It's just harder. and so they're running amok and they're giving the society
(47:37):
the world the middle finger.
And as far as they're concerned you know they
can do no wrong like i know this one and while they're suffering through it
that's the other thing it's not like they're having fun they feel like they
don't feel good doing being in this chaos that has been created so anyway sorry
i interrupt no right they're lost yeah so there's this one individual i know and she's got a son on am,
(48:03):
I was like, let me talk to this person without going into too many details about my life.
And she said, well, so-and-so, we'll call him Johnny, is playing right now and doesn't want to talk.
Now, I'm the uncle of this person. So naturally, I'm thinking,
(48:24):
huh? What do you mean they're playing?
You're the parent. Tell them to talk on the phone. You're the grown-up.
Yeah. you know and so and this
is a very young mother okay and so it's just
i'm kind of seeing this progression of like the kids
do what they want to do you don't put any rules on them
and then the next generation comes in and says i don't want there to
(48:45):
be any rules of my kid anything they want and it's
just going to keep going in that direction where you don't do the things that
you ought to do because they weren't enforced on you because it was you know
your parent considered it a mark of their freedom to be unencumbered by other
(49:05):
people's expectations or anything like that.
So I didn't mean to go down that rabbit hole, but just to say that if we don't
parent the kids and we let the kids parent us, disaster ahead.
Yeah. I mean, what really good athlete wants a coach that just says you're doing great all the time?
They want a coach that's going to tell them do better and be hard on them so they can improve.
(49:28):
Anybody who really wants to be a better, stronger athlete wants a tough coach, right?
I used to do martial arts and I loved my, you know, my senseis because they
would, you know, be tough on me. I love that.
And you know, there's a balance because there's times where things are hard
and people need a little more of a softer approach.
But at the same time, I feel like we've just swung so far in one direction.
(49:53):
Yeah, no, we have. And it's made the necessity for your book,
which is crazy that we're, you know, down this rabbit hole, but it is a real reality.
And it's the practical response to gender distress. dress.
(50:13):
Yeah, I was going to say in that light, like at the end, I have a whole chapter
on like how to talk to your trans identified teen.
And it's kind of has like a balanced way of, it has ideas because of course
I can't write a script for you and your kid because I don't know you guys.
But what I do is I give you ideas of things you could ask that are open-ended
questions that aren't super confrontational because people on one other side
(50:37):
of the spectrum are really confrontational and just start kind of yelling at the kid and saying,
you know, you're, you know, there's only two genders.
And, you know, that, that kind of doesn't help once the kid's already indoctrinated
by the trans people, but then also not just going along with it either.
So they're like, I kind of talk, give tips so you can be a little more middle ground.
(50:58):
And to, to really figure out which side or of the pendulum to lean on that I can't really say,
say but it's it's really more of a trial and error thing and
you're not probably not going to say the right thing but these are
just things to try one one example of
a question is like what does it mean to be trans for you you know
to ask the kid just like generally being curious rather than be like you're
(51:21):
not trans stop it right you're like well what does that mean to you and have
them and see what they say and most likely they won't have a real answer because
it's so vague and they they probably hadn't really thought about it.
They just are kind of going along with it.
And a lot of the questions might be a hard upsetting because you're,
you're kind of poking holes in their ideas, but hopefully cumulatively it might,
(51:45):
it might help them get back to reality.
So that, so that's sort of the goal. And those are some of the tips that I have in there.
That's amazing. That is a really important part of your book,
because communicating is the biggest problem that people are facing.
You know, parents don't know what their kids have been told all day,
(52:06):
and they also don't know the right answer, because so many landmines have been
set up in the minds of these kids to say they're going to say this.
And that's yeah that's transphobic right there
and so it really it really
is a trial and error game with whoever you're talking
to to see how far developed they are how well they
understand their own situation etc so well pamela garfield yeager we had such
(52:33):
an amazing talk with you today and i thank you so much for your time would you
for our viewers and listeners again share share your web address,
your book title, all that.
Okay, I got the book here sitting next to me, so I'll do this.
A practical response to gender distress.
It's pink and blue. I have a picture of this like kind of warped family on the trans flag.
(52:55):
That's what the meaning of that is. Because as we said earlier in our conversation,
this is about destroying families and my goal is to strengthen families.
So that's what's that. I have a website called the truthfultherapist.org.
And you could actually book a one-on-one consultation with me via Zoom if you
have questions, need help maybe figuring out if mental health therapy in your
(53:21):
family could be helpful or not.
Really a lot of what I do is empower parents. Like I don't tell you what to
do. I really want you to believe in yourself.
So that's a lot of it. I kind of hear what's going on in your family and just
ask some basic questions so that you kind of know where to go from there.
I have an Instagram, which is the dot truthful therapist.
(53:43):
My Twitter is truth therapist. I couldn't do the because it doesn't fit in Twitter.
I have a sub stack, which is Pam, the truthful therapist.
So the truthful therapist is the theme here. I'm a truthful therapist and that's
a lot of what my handles are.
So if you Google my name and truthful therapist, you'll find stuff information from me.
(54:04):
Great. Yes. You are well known as a truthful, truthful therapist and other question
or actually other statement.
I hear this book's doing pretty good on Amazon. Amazon, where does it sit right now?
Well, I mean, they have these categories and it's fun to watch like how they rank.
And right now I'm in number one in the teen LGBTQ plus books category.
(54:31):
And it's really fun because mine's on the top and then below it are all the
kind of disgusting, really sexually explicit books that like Moms for Liberty
and you guys have been pushing back back against.
So it's kind of fun to see mine sitting on top of these like icky ones.
Like there's one called All Boys Aren't Blue, which is really,
sounds innocent kind of, but it's not inside.
(54:53):
This book is gay. Anyway, mine's on top of those on that list. So that's fun.
And then, yeah, it's, it's also...
Like you know these things i don't know how to calculate because
it keeps changing but that there's a there's the general lgbtq
plus and demographic issues books and
it's been sitting at like between like six and ten
and keeps moving around so that's fun to watch
(55:16):
yeah so i appreciate the support
and hopefully more people buy it and
more people will read it then like just word it'll get word of
mouth it'll sell itself that way
so yeah it's it's pretty easy read
it's not very it's not weighed down by a lot
of like history and theory and i
(55:38):
don't even use a lot of clinical language it's really
for someone who just really just wants the
facts and wants like what to do practically and then
the very end it has a ton of resources so pretty
much every website other books like
tons of other films you guys gaze against groomers
are listed in the resources i have pictures
(56:00):
and graphics i i even use i think i assume
jamie did it from gaze against groomers like her graphics save the tomboys from
you guys you know so it's got like pictures in addition to words to really get
get the message across for people to understand what's going on and how to fight
it excellent that's amazing well i hope everybody checks out pamela garfield jaeger's book,
(56:22):
A Practical Response to Gender Distress,
Tips and Tools for Families.
And follow us on.
Spotify, iHeartRadio, iTunes, Podbean, wherever podcasts are held.
And it was great talking to you, Pamela. Thank you so much. Let's do it again sometime.
(56:44):
Appreciate it. Yes. All right. Thank you.
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