In this riveting episode of 'The Dark Side of the Rainbow', hear the emotionally charged journey of Matt, a detransitioned member of Gays Against Groomers, as he talks candidly about the trials he faced during and after his transitioning process, underlining the physical, emotional, and psychological toll that such a profound change can take.
Matt's partner, Judith, also joins to share her perspective as a caregiver, highlighting the struggles that individuals close to those transitioning undergo.
This episode underscores the malpractices in the medical industry concerning transitioning and highlights the need for societal changes to protect the young from undue pressures and harm.
To find out more about the upcoming film Leaving Amy, visit leavingamy.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This episode of The Dark Side of the Rainbow is sponsored by us.
We wanted to let you know that we have a huge online store full of official,
gotta get the official, Gays Against Groomers merch.
Each purchase really helps us continue our fight, and it's also a great way
(00:23):
to spread an important message. So, check it out at shop.gaysagainstgroomers.com.
That's shop.gaysagainstgroomers.com. And to learn more about our organization,
donate to our cause, or get involved, just visit gaysagainstgroomers.com.
(00:44):
And if you're interested in sponsoring this, please reach out at podcast at
gaysagainstgroomers.com.
Music.
(01:09):
Welcome to the dark side of the rainbow this is robert wallace and this is a
gaze against groomers production and we have a couple gaze against groomers
members some very prominent members,
our director of communication and our director of content.
And they are being featured in a film which has just had its trailer released, and it is jaw-dropping.
(01:39):
You can hear that right,
So, I first experienced gender dysphoria around age five.
Mom, Dad, I think something's wrong with me.
So, I had my top surgery. It ended up being one of the most traumatic experiences of my life.
(02:07):
If I'd seen all of these pictures of these trans men with the perfect top surgery,
they are selling this in a romanticized way.
It was sold like that to me. They told me that transitioning would be the cure to my problems.
Everything I'd been feeling would go away, but what they didn't tell me was
that I'd actually suffer more.
I have permanent nerve damage.
(02:27):
I had to watch Matt be bed-bound for months. I would wake up in pools of blood. I have infections.
My head has constantly felt like it's in a vice. I couldn't do anything.
I couldn't take care of the person that I loved. I have seizure-like spasms
all the time. I have a tick that comes and goes.
The ticking got really bad at one point to the point I was slapping myself around
(02:49):
the face in front of people.
The medical industry sells this lie, and then they can't fix it.
I'm stuck looking like this for the rest of my life. You can take hormones,
you can have surgery and look a certain way, but it doesn't change who you are.
It never goes away. It just gets worse because you do all these changes and
(03:09):
you can't reach that goal.
You can't reach it You will never reach it because you are not that gender They lied to me.
They lied to my face and Now know that all of it could have been avoided if
I'd have been told the truth If I can save just one child from this and I would die happy.
Music.
(03:41):
I just raised atheists, my family were never believers.
I was getting really overwhelmed, I remember standing in my room and I called
out and I said Jesus and all of a sudden,
I just felt this overwhelming wash over me of peace that I have never felt in my life.
(04:06):
Music.
(04:30):
I actually had a really hard phone call with my mom, and I told her that I was
sorry for taking her little girl away, because that's what I did.
Matt and Jude, thank you for joining,
and thank you for coming out to tell us a bit more about Matt's story of being
(04:52):
a detransitioner and all of the side effects that were never shared.
And so all these kids nowadays are being led down this road
of misinformation so if you could just go back matt
the film was called leaving amy who's amy
that is correct we took a long time trying to figure out what the title was
going to be we were thinking of all these different things but some of them
(05:15):
had already kind of been done before for other things to do with this topic
and then it hit me i was like you know when i made this decision i left her
behind that little girl was left behind for this new person.
And I've reached a stage where I'm comfortable with my past now.
And I'm finally willing to.
That's beautiful. You know, there was a really heart-wrenching moment at the end of that trailer,
(05:39):
where you're recounting that moment where you called your mother to really apologize
for removing Amy, her daughter from her life.
And I think you can really hear from
that that you recognize that something
had happened that maybe shouldn't have happened and you
feel terrible about it because there's nothing you can do now where do you think
(06:04):
what's the main lesson or the message that kids youth who are considering going
down these irreparable routes should be asking themselves I think they need to.
Ask themselves if this is something they really want and also to be aware of
the fact that this is something that isn't for them at that age.
(06:26):
The fact that I was an adult when I finally went through medicalization and
I had all of these side effects, it absolutely devastates me to wonder what
it would do to these poor children whose bodies and minds aren't even fully developed yet.
It's absolutely barbaric. And I also want them to think about it in a sense of,
you know, know like learn that they're perfect just
(06:48):
how they are there's nothing wrong with them gender dysphoria
is very similar to having body dysmorphia and
i think there are other ways that this needs to be
dealt with these children need to be taught how to love themselves and
be comfortable in their skin rather than being told that they
have to go through these extreme surgeries in order
to find themselves because it isn't the answer your true
(07:10):
self is within you no surgeries or hormones
will bring that person out you need to learn
who you are on the inside that is what is the most important wow for
anything is done i mean honestly if
people just do still feel the same way adults can do
whatever they want but as far as rushing into this there are so many things
that can happen and as kids underdeveloped it's just it's too risky so adults
(07:35):
are free to take that risk if that's what you really decide but but what happened
to matt can happen to anyone and so So we want to expose that with this film.
Matt's case is fairly unique in the sense that when Matt moved to America,
we went to a clinic out here where we live that were pretty clueless openly in front of us.
(07:55):
And the doctor essentially, like we watched her Google it in front of us and just sort of be like,
this looks good and put Matt on this dose of testosterone and that we later
found out through a hormone specialist was egregiously high. Wow.
And not only that, but because I was taking that dose every two weeks,
(08:15):
there was a reserve left in my body of the testosterone every time I took my next shot.
So it was building up even more in my body in between that time to the point
where I got as sick as I did. That's incredible.
Talk about malpractice.
So there was one thing I kind of wanted to go back and address really quick.
One of the primary focus of Gays Against Groomers is to protect the youth.
(08:40):
And but your situation i think is
a unique warning because you weren't even still
yet merely a child you were what 25 or so when you went through this transition
yeah i went to my appointments at first at 24 and then i started hormones at
26 had my top surgery at 29 and i had all of these health issues so just imagine
(09:03):
what these things are going to do these poor four children.
And how many, and you're 32 now, right? Yes.
And so, and so you're about a year into your detransition, a bit over a year or so? Yeah. Yeah.
About a year and a half since I stopped taking testosterone.
And the crazy thing about it is I actually got sicker when I stopped.
So it's, it's not even a matter of, Oh, if I stopped taking this,
(09:26):
I'm going to be fine because the body goes into shock after that and wonders
where that hormone has gone.
And it's not as simple was then taking
estrogen again because that would actually mess my body up even more.
It's a lose-lose situation and the
fact that they are selling this and saying things like oh you can you can stop
these things whenever you want no it doesn't work like that it doesn't work
(09:49):
like that because the longer you've taken it your body has to recover from that
yeah you know what was that june i was just saying the longer you've been on
it the worse it is you basically have you're a a medical patient for life.
So it's a very serious decision. And like, we understand that.
At least adults can comprehend that. But things can happen.
Malpractice can happen. You
know, you never really know if you're going to the right doctor or not.
(10:11):
And I mean, I guess we should have seen the warning sign when the doctor was Googling in front of us.
But you know, you trust a professional just to figure it out for themselves.
You trust that they know what they're doing. But it was really strange at the
time. And then Matt started having chest pains.
And we were we started easing up on the dosing because Matt was like,
you know, I'm really not feeling right a couple months into it.
(10:32):
And so we were like, spacing it out more until Matt was like,
I just I don't want to do this anymore.
We need to stop until we figure out what's going on. And by the end of 2022,
the first time we went to Amfest, we already knew something was wrong.
And I mean, Matt doesn't travel super well. But at the time that Matt was pretty sick.
And it was a rough trip. I mean, it was worth it, but it was rough.
And then, you know, we went back and forth on what we were going to do if Matt
(10:56):
was going to get back on testosterone because of what we were talking about,
because your body goes into shock. And, you know, it's not able to produce the same things anymore.
And, you know, we were like, do we go to California? What do we do? What do we do?
And our friends finally convinced us to start a fundraiser. And that helped
us get to a hormone specialist.
We got a lot of wonderful recommendations from people. And, you know,
(11:17):
we saw some hope that summer in 2023.
But then things took a dive again, you know, because things have always been
a bit inconsistent with us.
Matt's not able to work and my work's kind of inconsistent. consistent.
And when Matt's health takes a dive, that's all I can really think about.
I go into like caretaker mode.
So that's taken a toll on me as well.
(11:38):
Unfortunately, I got burnt out many times and when I feel like I've done everything
and I don't know what else to do, that's when I start to kind of lose it.
And we had a few times like that where I've just holding Matt crying kind of
thing. Because I would...
There's nothing else I can do. You know, we just had to wait for things to pass
(11:59):
for these episodes to pass.
But the overprescription of testosterone was causing seizures and quitting it was causing seizures.
And it's just been a really hard time, especially the last two years.
And we were both just spent at the beginning of this year. I mean,
Matt was really, really sick at the end of 2023.
And we've taken him to the ER. And I mean, the MRI was normal. So that was good.
(12:22):
No immediate tumor or anything, because I mean, I wasn't sure what else was
going on, but it's been a trip.
You know, I think the back to that, you know, really hard lesson that I that
I just keep getting from your particular case is just how even as an adult,
one could come to see this as a as an option or a therapy to their mental struggles.
(12:45):
And if that can happen, how much easier it is for kids going through adolescence,
going through their sexual maturation.
Who are coming to terms with their sexuality and to have all these very grown
up options put in front of them, options whose effects are never truly fully explained.
(13:07):
And so now you're here, you're living through that and you've got your the biological
effects of how it's making you feel.
And then there's the psychological effects, the tics and the mental disturbance
of peace. Yeah, one of the most horrible things as well was the gaslighting.
I had a gender affirming care doctor comment on the video of me having a seizure,
(13:31):
saying hormones don't do this, even though I had doctor's notes confirming that they did.
So these people they are giving
people experimental drugs they don't actually know the
full extent of the side effect people can have but if someone
is to have one that doesn't suit their narrative they
are shutting it down like it never happened even when the medical evidence is
(13:52):
there these people are so willing to assist you when they want to put you on
these experimental drugs but the moment that you need help because you get sick
from them they will they won't take any accountability for it it's like it never
happened when i got sick from the the testosterone I was prescribed,
Jude rang up the clinic that prescribed it to me, told them what had happened,
and they denied even giving it to me. They said, oh, we don't do that here.
(14:15):
And when Jude then said, oh, yes, you did and proved it, they didn't even apologize.
And I was in such shock. I mean, I wish I'd recorded the phone call because
I didn't really expect to get that answer.
I had the paperwork in front of me. I was like, excuse me. You know,
I just you just don't expect that.
I wasn't I wasn't calling with the intent of like exposing them already.
I was looking for answers, you know, and we've had people tell us hormonal epilepsy
(14:40):
is absolutely a thing. and I was looking things up quickly.
And it's catamenial epilepsy is something that can happen with like menstrual,
it's also known as menstrual seizures.
So, you know, because of Matt's body trying to correct itself and bring back
that those hormones to correct levels.
I mean, the labs showed that Matt's body had the hormone levels of simultaneously
(15:01):
a pregnant woman, a menopausal woman.
And what was the third thing? It was just in someone on their period,
you know, it was like all at the same time. So that can cause seizures.
And that that is what we were told by a hormonal specialist.
So to have people, you know, try to deny it or talk crap to us is just it's it's frustrating.
(15:23):
You know, it makes you wish you could slap someone through the phone.
But it's it's it's just something that can happen.
And I it's the worst part, I think, is just has been trying to deal with that
and make people understand because I've even had I had friends look me in the
face and just be like, that's not possible.
I'm like, it is, though. Is this film, because all this is going to be discussed in that film. Yeah.
(15:45):
And the production of this film, in terms of the interviews that have happened,
you've got, you guys are in it, of course.
Who else is going to be part of this project and what kind of segments should we look for?
So we're going to have the truthful therapist, Pamela Garfield,
in there. Mia, the author of the WPATH files, is going to be in it.
(16:08):
Jamie and Sasha are going to be in the documentary.
The head of America's frontline nurses, Nicole Siratek, is going to be in there
explaining the dangers of Cipionate.
That was the hormone that I was actually on.
And she's done research recently showing that a lot of it is actually, it's contaminated.
Which is actually interesting because when I first got sick,
(16:29):
Buck Angel reached out to me and asked me what tea I'd been on.
And when I told him, he said that every single trans man he knew that had been
on that T had also been sick. So her research will be shown.
Dr. Neil Morris, the health professional who dealt with me when I got sick,
he is a hormone expert. Absolutely incredible at his work.
He was the one who saw me and took my blood and told me about the prescription.
(16:49):
He has agreed to be in the documentary as well.
Lindsey Graham, the Patriot Barbie, is also going to be in a documentary.
So is Sikh Smith, the head of Mum Army.
We want to get as many perspectives from, you know, health professionals,
the mama bears who are having to witness this with their children and worried about them.
And we are bringing on board as many people as we can to expose this lie and
(17:11):
protect children from this happening any better.
And the more support we get, the more we can do. Yes. That's amazing.
You got such a great lineup of people. This film is being produced by Stephen
Sorensen, who is the filmmaker for Beneath Sheep's Clothing.
Which is a documentary that Gaze Against Groomers also participated in.
(17:34):
BeneathSheep'sClothing.movie.
Yours truly made a little appearance there.
And he's now producing Leaving Amy.
And if you can see this trailer, you might have to go online.
If you're listening to the podcast or on the radio, you might have to go to watch this.
But the web address is LeavingAmy.com. Is that right?
Yes. You were the only one. You got it. Yeah, we did.
(17:59):
I forgot the rights to that lincoln park song featured
in the trailer which we were very excited about because we thought it was
perfect and we wanted connor chester bennington and
his fight against you know child trafficking and child abuse
as well so exactly yeah that was
the connection that popped into my head there so we've
got this film getting ready to come out what
(18:21):
kind of ambitions do we have for do are we
looking like it's going to go on the route of netflix we're
gonna have a movie theater release or what the support
we get for the film because obviously we're not hollywood we're
having to crowdfund it but the aim we have is
that we want it to show in movie theaters across the states
we want it to be streamable online and we are also going
(18:42):
to pitch it to netflix and amazon prime we know
that that might be difficult because of their views but at the same time
surely all trans perspectives should matter if
they care so much otherwise their bias is truly showing
so we are aiming to get it to them and we'll
see what happens there but if not we are going to go for movie theater
release and streaming and we're hoping to maybe have a watch party of some kind
(19:04):
that i mean with gag especially that would be really fun which would most likely
happen in phoenix arizona because we're closest to there we're out in arizona
we're up north but that that would be probably the the best idea i think and
And somebody in gag suggested that. And we love that idea.
So hopefully we can make that happen and get get like an early viewing of that
(19:25):
for everybody involved and our members to see it first.
So fingers crossed. Well, I'm excited to see what other formats this project takes.
You know, maybe a book version. You got to do the audio book, maybe a course.
Yeah. However, however, you got to get the message out there.
(19:46):
So Leaving Amy is going to be focusing on your story in particular, Matt.
What is the angle for the national media?
Interest level are you is the film going to discuss
legislation or more broadly
what's affecting the the increase
(20:06):
in trans identifying youth yes absolutely and now
that the cash report has been released we're definitely going to feature that
in there too to back up what we're saying because that report is so powerful
it is so powerful and we needed that it's it's an absolute game changer and
i'm so happy that the report came out now so that we can actually incorporate it So, yeah, for sure.
(20:26):
I'm going to be passing Steve a whole lot of research since I'm writing it,
which is essentially means I'm structuring it and writing out interview questions
for people who are involved.
I'm going to be giving Steve as much material as I possibly can and,
you know, just watch his brilliant editing skills and see what he can whip up with it.
So we're really looking forward to that. He's amazing. That's yeah, that's excellent.
(20:48):
How did you guys get involved in this project? What were the first things that happened?
I assume you met Steve, you had told him a bit of your story,
and you guys just kind of hit it off.
Yeah, so we met Steve at America's Best last year, and obviously he had the
booth out with Julie Burlings, being Neve Sheep's clothing.
And he just loves the organization. He absolutely loves our work.
(21:10):
And when I told him what was going on with me, I could see that it really changed.
Like it really touched him. And he was like, let's make a film about this.
And at first it was going to be a short documentary, a little short film.
But once we realized how much content we actually had, we realized we could
turn it into a full length feature film.
So it just went from there. And he's been so passionate and he's been so keen.
(21:32):
We've stayed in contact a lot.
And he really knocked it out of the park with the trailer.
And we just absolutely can't wait to see where the rest of the film goes,
because his creative vision is just beautiful.
Like when we watched the trailer for the first time when
he sent it to us we were both crying watching it i was so overwhelmed
you know like i i knew he was going to do a great job but when i saw how well
(21:53):
he actually did it i was so grateful you know i i can just tell that god was
moving his hand because that trailer is so powerful there's no other way it's
actually truly special yeah Yeah. Yeah, absolutely is.
Are you guys going to be doing any additional projects?
And do you have anything else in the works or is right now just focusing on this?
(22:17):
This is something that you've got some of the video recorded from your guys's
from where this trailer was pulled. You've got more interviews to add.
So this film is very much still in the making.
It's still very much taking speaking in funds.
So where would somebody go if they want to contribute toward the funding of this?
(22:37):
They would go to the website, leavingamy.com. And then there's a button on the
website saying support, and it would lead to the Give, Send, Go.
We're using Give, Send, Go because GoFundMe has a habit of shutting down anyone
trying to speak out against the narrative. Give, Send, Go are incredible.
So we're raising the money there. And that's going to help the film come to
(22:59):
completion. It's going to help us get it shown in those theatres across the state.
It's going to help us pay the people involved for their time and also help with
my medical costs because I have medical bills and I still need to see a neurologist, etc.
And then also we're going to give money to the org as well.
Yeah, they've done so much for us. So of course, you know, we want to pay them
back and just make sure that anybody involved did pay for the time,
(23:22):
like we said, and any travel expenses, we might need to go film the documentary.
Steve was mentioning he wants me to tag along to help interview because he likes
to just be the camera guy. So I was like, you know, no problem.
Because last summer, I had a project in which I interviewed six different people for an hour each.
So I have definitely have an idea of how to go about it. I'm very excited for that.
(23:44):
It's kind of weird saying my name in the credits written by Judith Rose.
I was like, wow, I'm doing this. We're doing this. It's happening. Yeah.
So, you know, and I'm just so happy that my first big project is going to be
dedicated to the person I love and help as many people as possible.
So, you know, we're used to exposing things, you know, so we're happy to do it. We're glad to do it.
(24:07):
And And medical malpractice is just one of the most evil things that can absolutely ruin your life.
So if we can help people avoid this, that's what we want to do.
And just get the message out there as fast as we can. We've already had so much
support, even in the last like 48 hours.
I mean, we've had gag posts and pin it in a tweet.
Allison from OAN wants me to, wants both of us really to come on and talk about it.
(24:30):
We got Tucker Carlson's attention already and it's coming together quickly.
So I think it's just a matter of time before we get the support that we need.
It's probably not going to take long.
We have an amazing network, people who adore us. And we're so grateful for that. We're so blessed.
And shout out to Bobby Sauce, who just made a video that we saw right before
we came on because it was just so sweet of him.
(24:53):
He recorded in front of the movie poster, basically, and told everybody about it.
We're so touched by that. he's lovely he's been so supportive ever since I was
doxxed back in 2020 in Alcides France he was so wonderful he reached out and he was like
look I already love the stuff you're putting out there and
I know you feel upset that you've been dogs but I think it's gonna be beautiful for
(25:14):
you and you was right because I'm now part of this battle
to save children and first I thought it was a curse
but it did turn out to be my biggest blessing it really did that was before
everything as well before gay skin streamers when we were just sort of posting
Matt and I weren't even together in the states yet and Matt hadn't come out
as trans Matt was just posting on the internet and we'd been talking for a couple
(25:34):
months so So someone Matt used to work with was feeling bitter, I guess,
and talking smack on his live.
And we didn't even know until somebody sent us a clip of it.
And he even accused me of being trans, which I thought was really funny because
I'm absolutely not 100% natural woman. But no, it was it was pathetic.
So and the best part is, is that it became Matt's strength.
(25:58):
Yeah, it all led to that. Yeah, 100%. sense. So he's probably kicking himself quite a bit right now.
If he's still around, who knows? I don't know.
So let me ask you, Jude, what kind of advice would you give to somebody who's in your position?
You care or love somebody who's gone down the route of transitioning,
(26:20):
and now maybe you're starting to.
Observe little unexpected phenomena ticks
or things like that how would you recommend somebody
approach their the person they're caring for well personally we we tend to use
you know the medical industry as a last resort i was raised to use natural remedies
(26:42):
and rely on like herbs teas all that kinds of things before you go to the doctor
and not not that you know you shouldn't go.
But I mean, my mom raised me on this natural remedy.
So that was the first thing that I looked into. We discovered magnolia tea is
great for hormonal imbalances.
We discovered we need to make sure Matt's getting vitamin D, magnesium.
(27:04):
We used tinctures with this, like a whole mix of like different roots and sheilagic
resin, like really anything that people recommended or sent along that was natural.
We went with it, just things to keep balance in the body, you know,
But then there's this psychological aspect of feeling helpless and feeling overwhelmed.
And that's been pretty hard, too. So I also had to get on some stress supplements
(27:27):
and things like that to kind of just level me out a bit.
And find people you can talk to about it who aren't going to judge you.
Just do the best you can. And just make sure you're also balancing your own
health and your own mental health.
That can be difficult between the two of us. It's been a lot.
But, you know, we've kind of taken turns going through bouts of depression and
(27:48):
just feeling like we're never going to get out of this.
It's been one step forward, two steps back, up and down, left, right.
And just not knowing how to handle it. You know, when Matt's having an episode,
I jump up and I try everything.
I'm like, OK, do you need a tincture? Do you need ibuprofen?
Do you need this? Do you need a cup of tea?
Do you need it? I will just try everything in my arsenal, you know, before anything.
(28:09):
And, you know, occasionally we'll call up Nicole, the American frontline nurse,
if things are getting really bad. She's walked us through Matt having a seizure before and
It can be really scary, you know, especially because we can't necessarily treat
every single episode like an emergency.
I can't be running back and forth to the ER. So we do our best to hold it down
and just try everything and wait it out, which is sometimes really scary.
(28:31):
You know, Matt's woken up with chest pains before.
That hasn't happened in a while. So we're really thankful for that.
Detoxing can be really important, you know, because you want to get that stuff
out of your body that you don't need. Lots of steam.
There's like detox supplements you can take. Like I said, we took a lot of recommendations
from people and we just tried it out.
(28:52):
And I've seen a definitely improvement, but it's been an up and down situation.
This year, things have leveled out a bit. It hasn't been quite as severe as
the last few months of 2023.
I was really scared then, really tired. I really didn't know what else to do.
And sometimes I'd have to just call somebody and talk about it.
But a lot of the times we kept things to ourselves.
I mean, people can be really judgmental, especially on the internet.
(29:14):
So it's not really a place to like vent about bad days because people just kind of jump on you.
Well, they just say really mean things, you know, you can imagine,
especially trying to show people what's going on.
And they just they just getting a snippet, people's perspective.
Excuse me, can be really skewed.
And they just say awful things because they don't know what they're talking about.
(29:35):
So many times we just kept the worst days to ourselves.
And I just tried my best. You know, it's been tough.
You know, they say you're a patient for life once you begin to undergo this
transition, and that each patient's worth around a million dollars to the medical
pharmaceutical industry.
(29:56):
So can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, absolutely.
In fact, when I was interviewed by Turning Point UK two years ago at America
Fest, I mentioned the $1 million thing.
And that was because I saw a video, someone had taken a secret camera into a
room where nurses were discussing these therapies, and they were talking about
(30:18):
how they get paid a million dollars.
They were bragging about it. That's somebody's life, but they just see it as this.
And no one could tell me otherwise at this point. I am 100% convinced this isn't
healthcare. It is a business.
That is all it is, especially in this country, you know, because these health
professionals already get paid a lot as it is.
And then they see this, and it's just a huge money-making scheme.
(30:41):
And the fact that the people, like you said, they are patients for life because
they have to keep getting their hormones.
They have to pay for these surgeries. and if they take if they
come off it then they have to repair their health and that doesn't happen straight away
either you know i've been i'm still suffering over a year
later so it is greed they don't
care about you they pretend they do oh when i when i was
in the middle of transitioning they they romanticized it
(31:03):
to me so much you know they they romanticize the whole thing
you know they tell you that your mental health will
be completely fine once you do this and you won't
be suicidal anymore and all you can be your true self
what they don't tell you is that like i
said in the trailer you can have all these changes you can
take the hormones you can have the surgeries but it doesn't change who
(31:23):
you are inside in fact one of the first reality checks i had with that was when
i went out with my friends years ago to a bar and obviously where i looked like
a man from that point onwards the bouncer assumed i was and my friends tried
to sneak into the smoking area and the bouncer got handsy with me he was throwing me around like
really forceful when I was thinking, oh no, this is not good.
(31:45):
This is not good because I'm a woman, you know, I'm a biological woman.
And in that moment, I truly realized that because I felt really,
really scared to everybody.
Not necessarily that situation, but no matter what happens, you are going to
find these social situations, whether it's going into a store and you not passing,
for example, you are always going to be reminded about your past.
It is not going to go away.
(32:06):
You cannot change your sex.
Yeah. So rather than trying to kill off who you were.
I mean, in Matt's situation, we're trying to honor who Matt was, which was Amy.
And, you know, some people, they do this almost like ritual,
basically, where they have like a funeral for their old self.
And they just tell everyone they're fully different person.
(32:26):
Now they even start acting differently, which can be really scary for the people
around them, the people who knew them, and the family members, close friends, etc.
And, you know, I think it's, it's rare when it, when it does work out,
but, you know, like we said, if you're happy with your transition,
that's fantastic for you. Wonderful.
It doesn't change the fact that you're still a permanent medical patient.
(32:48):
It doesn't change your chromosomes or your DNA.
You know, I consider it more of a body modification than anything.
And I'm, I don't, I don't hate anyone who does this to themselves.
It's, there's, in that sense, it's no, there's nothing wrong with it,
but you have to tell the truth.
At least tell the truth, you know, don't pretend like you've been this way your whole life.
(33:09):
You know, you, when you have to go through all these surgeries and take hormones
just to be happy with yourself, it kind of says something about your mental
health and loving yourself.
You know, it's, it doesn't have to be that difficult, but I feel for the people
who've, you know, feel the need to do that.
That's, that's on you, you know, it's okay. But like we said,
But in Matt's case, we had some malpractice involved and Matt's top surgery
(33:34):
didn't go that well either.
So it's tough when it doesn't work out because of how romanticized it is.
And it's only fair if we get the other side of the story, especially because
of what's being pushed in the mainstream right now and how they're trying to
say this stuff is life-saving and it's going to fix everything.
And that might not be the case. And especially for kids,
(33:55):
when they're trying to get them as young as possible now and make puberty super
this super scary thing that you want to avoid like oh no you're gonna have to
go through female puberty you don't want to do that let's get you to the doctor
that's not okay that's not okay at all you know it doesn't it does not give
them a chance to have a normal.
Childhood they're they're not going to develop right and i just don't understand
(34:16):
the people that are in denial about this i mean at least more research is coming
out but how many kids are going to get damaged in the process before the whole
world finally wakes up and it's like like, oh, yeah, child sex changes are bad.
Like, how is this even a debate? Right. You know, that kind of brings me to
the question of the origins of this whole thing, because on one hand,
(34:37):
it's clearly does not look like that it's coming up out of like an organic need.
Like society is clamoring for more trans options.
It seems that all of a sudden that the powers that be, the ones that control
the conglomerates and all the marketing and all of this have top-down made the
(34:58):
trans matter of such high priority.
They've propagandized society with it for so long that we've all become so indoctrinated
with this dogma through advertising,
through media in the government,
that we see a major uptick in the interest in the
(35:18):
trans-identifying youth so you know we could say sure there's been people that
have been on the spectrum of you know trans identification one place or another
all throughout history and time and then we can also look at the huge major
uptick we now have up to 40% of Gen Z.
Identifying somewhere in the lgbtqia plus spectrum
(35:41):
so what do you say i don't understand how they
don't see this because i mean as as millennials
in our 30s now we know what life was like before the internet was in our face
24 7 and how how you could deny the fact the uptick in social media from about
2010 on you know how do you not see the influence there you know we're always
(36:02):
on these things on our phones we're always on social media now we're always looking at headlines.
I was looking at news. It's in our pockets.
It used to be I had to sit down on a computer, wait for the internet to connect,
and you could actually just unplug, walk away from it, not even think about it.
And I used to have a flip phone that you could text Twitter to send a post.
(36:24):
And we would only use it to warn our friends about speed traps around the corner.
You're like, that's how far we've come.
It wasn't always just constantly streaming screaming into your brain.
So I just want people to consider that. It's really had an effect on the mental
health, especially of the youth and girls in particular are constantly comparing
(36:46):
themselves, feeling bad about themselves.
Everyone's posting their perfect little life snapshots, even though even that's a deception.
And then you have all this propaganda that was injected into the midst of that.
It's obvious to some of us, but to everyone else, I think we've We've been desensitized
by it. We were so used to it.
We don't understand how we're being influenced. Yeah, absolutely.
(37:08):
Matt, what do you think about the issue of trans hate? Do you think transphobia
is actually an increase?
Would you say that the perception of the increase of transphobic so-called behavior
has anything to do with society being turned off with what's happening in the schools?
(37:35):
What are the dynamics there? I don't believe there is an increase in transphobia
because the people who were trans like me, who kept to themselves,
they are still doing that.
It's this woke mentality that has surfaced. It's mostly these non-binary people
and the extreme views they are pushing and AGPs and it's all being forced on
(37:59):
children that is causing this concern.
And they're not they're not realizing that they're taking it as an attack on
themselves, which is a them issue for a start, because they're taking things personal.
How they can see protecting children from permanent service is an attack on them is beyond me.
You know, it's an attack on children. It's nothing to do with them.
And if they take it personally, then they need to look at themselves.
(38:22):
People like Bert, people like the offensive Trani, etc..
They don't take offense i never took offense it's it's
literally this woke mob the ones who call themselves
the queer community that are screaming genocide
but what what does worry me though is the more they scream genocide and they
(38:44):
the more they push this ideology onto children the people who want to be left
alone the parents are going to start getting to a point where they say enough is enough.
And we are already seeing that. And that is when I worry that this violence
and increase in transphobia could actually happen because they won't be able
(39:05):
to differentiate it anymore. And they will see it as all bad.
These people who are screaming genocide are going to bring this bad stuff on
themselves because of what they're doing.
Parents want to protect their kids. There is one thing that people draw the
line on, and that is harming children.
And that is exactly what we're seeing here. Yeah, I think it's creating a lot
of resentment of the community, but it's not even necessarily the community's fault.
(39:27):
I mean, and a lot of LGBT people don't really consider themselves part of any sort of community.
They just are who they are, you know? And then, but basically the LGBTQ has
become this corporation that is, you know, is forcing itself upon,
you know, all these media companies.
I mean, the products we consume, I mean, they just slap a rainbow on it,
(39:47):
slap a trans person on it and go inclusivity.
Yay. You have representation. Yay.
And it's so prominent now that it is building resentment.
People are like, hold on. Like, you can't pretend like this is so normal.
This is just, we're still a very small percentage of the population. That is just a fact.
(40:08):
And we were like, after gay rights and gay marriage became legal,
there was a moment of peace, you know, where everything was balanced. That's what we wanted.
What else could you do? And it's almost like these corporations up at the top
were like, we need a new money making opportunity.
We need a new way to take advantage of these minorities, of these marginalized
(40:31):
people. We need to create a new marginalized group.
We need to get people angry and we need to shove this thing down people's throats.
We need to put it into the education system.
You know, and it's I don't think it's about equality at all,
because it's become this almost tyrannical mindset of supremacy, if anything.
And now you have these trans people, quote unquote, that are super angry and
(40:55):
that we're starting to see an uptick in violence as well.
And we just had a case where an 18 year old trans identifying female,
she's considered consider herself a male, threatened to shoot up an elementary school.
So, you know, the thing about hormones is they can make you very unstable.
They're very important when it comes to your mental health. And,
(41:16):
you know, that's why women get cranky once a month.
And so imagine injecting that. And we're seeing the effects of this now.
You imbalance an already imbalanced part of the population, which is the youth
and teens, when they're already going through the turmoil of puberty and hormonal
chaos as it is, you put hormones in that mix.
(41:37):
We're starting to see how bad that can get. And that's what's creating a lot of resentment.
This agenda has been pushed so far that it's weaponizing the youth.
It's not OK. Do you feel like there's this can go for either of you or both of you?
Do you feel like maybe there's some kind of like gay genocide happening?
Like the thing that's happening in the name of gay interests is actually actively
(42:02):
sterilizing these people and destroying their lives and splitting the community.
It's splitting up people's identifications of themselves so they can't just live a gay life.
They have to now be some kind of trans queer. queer
do you yeah it's it's it's
really sad especially when you see what
(42:24):
it's doing mainly to little girls because most girls experience a tomboy phase
and they're having that taken away from them now instead they're being told
oh you like you you like sport oh you like the color blue you like cars did
you know you're a boy and it's actually you know these people calling
people speaking out against this stuff homophobic but
(42:46):
i can't think of anything more homophobic than telling a
little girl that she's a boy it's it's it's horrific it
it has to stop it's i can't i
can't even believe we actually how we got here to be honest i mean i can see
how because we've watched it happen but it's absolutely disgusting yeah so i
mean back to the you know our project that's one of the things we want to talk
(43:09):
about as well because you know matt was uh matt Matt was a tomboy, very much masculine.
And I think that was a huge part of it as well. So it can be confusing for young
women and young girls who just want to be themselves and everything.
But it's been really sad to watch. And again, I think it's creating a lot of
(43:29):
resentment in the community and breaking apart the community as well.
Whatever is left of it, even whoever consider themselves part of it.
Really pissing off the lesbians, frankly. Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah, it is. And what's really funny is one of the most,
well, it was the most popular dating app for lesbians, the Her app.
They basically pushed all the masculine lesbians off the app and replaced them for these AGPs.
(43:56):
And now they actually put an ad out saying that they are offering lifetime memberships
to masks because they need them back on the app.
And what I find hilarious about it is back in 2016, before I even started hormones,
I tried to be on there and clearly I looked like a lesbian back then and they
rejected me and I was a biological female.
(44:17):
So it's absolutely insane what is happening right now. Yeah.
By the way, for the listeners, can you tell us what AGP is?
Autogynephile. It's the men who say they are trans, but really they are fetishists.
You know, these are the ones you read about on Reddit who say the most unhinged
(44:39):
things that come from a porn-ridden mom.
And they think it makes you a woman when women don't act like that.
And these are the ones also who are committing these crimes and then deciding
they're women once they're in jail. That's the kind of people we're talking about.
Yeah, basically men in wigs, you know, essentially that they go into a bathroom
and then they take a picture of their boner because they're in a woman's bathroom.
(45:00):
Like it's a fetish. It's a fetish.
Right, right. Yeah, no, I've heard of that, actually, but just not as an abbreviation like that.
So who's this film for? It's for parents? It's for young people?
What age group and, you know, what kind of demographics are you hoping to...
(45:21):
It's going to be appropriate for everyone, even students.
In fact, one thing that really moved us was a member of the school district
actually said, like, will this film be appropriate to show to the students?
And that's exactly what we want.
Yes. High schoolers. High schoolers. We want this to get to them so that they
don't fall into this trap.
(45:41):
This is going to be ideal for anyone who needs to hear it.
I would say, let's say 14 plus, you know, if you're going to watch it on your
own, but very important for parents and teenagers,
particularly, you know, below that, I'm not sure they would have the comprehension,
but you never really know. And that's up to the parents' discretion.
(46:01):
So we definitely want adults to see it first and make that decision.
But we would love for high school students to be seeing this,
especially because if you're going to show all this other, you know,
inclusive representation, rainbow everywhere stuff, you need to show all of
it. You need to show what the good and the bad. Yeah.
You know, we were talking earlier and about something that now I'm wondering,
(46:27):
can you create, for instance, a list?
You know, some people, when they become adults, they decide that they're going
to go the route of transing themselves.
And we say, fine, you're an adult, do your own thing. For the kids,
we say, wait till you have reached the age of majority or your brain is matured.
So that way you can at least say, hey, I made a choice.
(46:49):
Maybe it's the right one. Maybe it's the wrong one. But you made an informed choice.
What would you say would be like a list of five or ten things or just whatever
you could think of to say, okay, before somebody goes and takes that puberty
blocker or that hormone replacement therapy?
These are like the main questions I should have asked myself before.
(47:12):
But I didn't. And maybe you should ask yourself, and maybe it might keep you from pursuing that.
Well, the thing is, nobody really knows who they are when they're growing up.
I mean, if you ask an adult, if they're exactly who they thought they'd be at,
what, like 12 years old, they're going to say no.
Childhood is complex. It's messy. It's a lot of exploration.
(47:39):
It's a lot of change. It's a lot of constant change. And that's going to be
it's all going to be based on your experiences and what's going on with your
body, which is is natural.
You know, I hate to see puberty demonized because it's something that we all
need to go through to get a proper development, to develop our brains and our bones.
And I mean, frankly, it's a common knowledge that the brain doesn't fully develop
(48:01):
until mid 20s or further.
If you like, if you have ADHD, they're saying your brain development could be
delayed beyond 25. five.
It's something to consider. You know, if you have other things going on with
you, depression, anxiety, ADHD, other disorders that you figure out early enough,
that's something to consider.
You want to wait making any major decisions because you could just really regret
(48:25):
that and end up realizing that, oh, I was just kind of imbalanced at the time.
I don't feel the same way anymore.
Definitely hold off on surgeries until you're fully developed.
Because I mean, The thing is, if you get on puberty blockers and you try to
go for surgery, a lot of the times you won't even be developed properly to get the surgery.
It's horrific what can happen.
(48:46):
I don't want kids to think that puberty is scary, for one thing.
It's uncomfortable. Of course, it sucks. But that doesn't mean that trying to
block it or delay it is going to fix you at all.
If anything, it's going to take the train off the rails and more and more evidence
is coming out that they're not reversible.
(49:08):
I mean, we're seeing some studies that are showing the long-term effects it
can have on males in particular, causing sterility, infertility,
atrophy, your reproductive organs, which is just awful, very, very painful.
And, you know, we just want kids to think about that, about that,
you know, you could be causing yourself a lifetime of pain.
(49:29):
You don't know that yet. You don't know yourself yet. It's complex.
You know, it's a lot to consider, but hopefully that helps. Yeah,
it does. Let me ask you, autism.
We know that the vast majority of trans identifying individuals can be located
somewhere in the spectrum of autism.
(49:52):
And I've talked to you about this, Jude, because I've thought about that.
I thought, well, if most trans people are coming out of the gay community,
most trans people are found somewhere in the spectrum of autism.
It makes you wonder about the spectrum of autism and, you know,
the gay demographic also.
(50:13):
You know, I think there's like you have some overlap there.
So what can you tell us, Matt, about how, you know, maybe any connection to
that or any struggles that might come from that could have influenced your decision? Yeah.
One of the main factors is how impressionable autistic people,
(50:35):
you know, they latch on to things.
So with this social contagion going on right now, the things they're being told,
especially when they're being taught it in schools as well, they're being sold this identity.
And, you know, I found out I was autistic as an adult. I had to take an adult
test because I thought I was my whole life.
And my mom told me that she was actually meant to get me checked and didn't.
So that made a lot of sense for me as well. when
(50:58):
I look back I was very imaginative as a
child like I would I had maladaptive daydreaming
I used to do that quite a lot I would imagine myself in
all of these situations that I wasn't really in that I was other people
and that's kind of part of being
trans as well you're embodying being something else
and the way social media has
(51:19):
such an impression right now it's making these children very vulnerable
especially when everyone is being told things
are special for this you know i've seen
cases of teachers bragging on
tiktok about how they cut a student
in front of the class and celebrate them because
they have pronouns and then what's the whole rest of the class going to do they're
(51:41):
going to join in because they want that attention as well and so autistic children
are very very vulnerable and that's why we're seeing it worse right now i mean
if you look at a lot of these from the other side of the argument the ones who
are pro-puberty blogs etc When you check their bios on social media,
most of them have autism written in their bios, along with many other things.
So they are extremely impressionable. And being neurodivergent as well also
(52:06):
has a big impact with transgenderism.
Yeah, I can definitely see that.
You know, it's interesting. In society, we're trying to figure out what are
the causes of autism, you know, and people are pointing to all kinds of things.
We're looking at environmental issues, pharmaceutical side effects.
We're looking at all kinds of things.
(52:27):
And then we have the autism and then we have, you know, some of these trajectories
or decisions or propensities that are, are found more so in that spectrum.
So I feel like there's probably studies done that correlate that,
but I don't know what they are.
I'd be interested to know how far back this goes, how everything is connected.
(52:50):
But the main thing is you can't do much about your autism unless you have some
cure sitting aside, but you can do something about your paradigm,
about your thought processes, And what you decide to enact or actualize.
So in our last few minutes here, I'm wondering what kind of advice would you
(53:13):
give in terms of like, hey, you know, get therapy or speak to this kind of specialist
or whatever, or philosophy?
Would you recommend that somebody who's really struggling with their gender
identity should maybe spend a good deal of time with that will,
you know, offer some clarity?
I believe therapy is important. The only thing I would say is right now,
(53:37):
a lot of these therapists are paid to have an affirming approach.
So if you are somebody who wants therapy, research the therapist first to make
sure you're going to be given a non-biased perspective.
Pamela Garfield is fantastic.
About what she does. There's no bias with her. She tells it how it is.
She actually released a book recently.
(53:58):
Gender Trap. The Gender Trap, which she's actually gonna send us a copy.
So we're gonna review that as soon as possible.
She has courses on her website that are really helpful for parents who have
children who are struggling with this.
I would also recommend as well, like for the kids, talk to your number one confidant,
and that is your parents.
(54:18):
Your parents loved you first. Obviously, there are cases where some people can't
confide in their parents.
But for those who can, the parent is your best friend, and they want what's best for you.
Listen to them. And surround yourselves with people who aren't wrapped in this
ideology and aren't going to use it against you.
Have friends who are truly your friend and
(54:38):
care about your well-being because a lot of these
youth are feeling like they can't confide in
people so they're getting caught in this trap by going on tiktok
coming across these influencers who are affirming the most insane things for
example that pronoun princess gal we says you can identify as a blanket avoid
those kind of people they are not going to be good for you in the long run and
(55:01):
also like there are loads of us speaking out about it Now more people start speaking out every day.
If you see someone like myself on social media who has been through it and is
speaking out on these things, reach out. We're here to help you.
That's what I'm here for. I'm doing this work to help you. I don't do it for
fun. There's nothing fun about this. It's very stressful.
I've had some amazing memories doing it, but it is hard work,
(55:24):
but I'm doing it to help people.
So if you need help, I'm there. I love that.
Wow. Well, one thing I just want to add into what you said, just to clarify,
you mentioned Pamela Garfield and her book. You mentioned Gender Trap.
Now, Gender Trap is a new book Gays Against Groomers is working out right now with...
(55:44):
Carla Curtis, who has penned that book.
I don't know if I did. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. No, Pamela Garfield's book
is a practical response to gender distress.
I just recognize that because, you know, I just talked to her a few weeks ago.
And so I was like, okay, wait, that sounded very similar. I got those.
(56:04):
It's really been on my mind because we're about to release that.
And we're going to be talking about that quite a bit in the future coming up.
But no, look up Pamela Garfield and her book. What was that called again, Robert?
A practical response to gender distress, tips and tools for families.
Okay. Okay.
So, okay, great. Well, what else would you guys like to share about what's upcoming
(56:28):
for the film and what you hope it's going to accomplish and the help that you need from people?
Well, like I said, we're getting some amazing support already,
but we're just getting started.
This is not a Hollywood production. This is going to be filmed by viewers like you.
And if you are willing to
donate and add your full name we you are going to
be credited as as someone who helped us get this
(56:50):
made you're going to see your name in the credits so we're just
looking to get as much support as we can and like i said the more we get the
the better the film can be and then we can make sure that everybody involved
has paid the time they're worth and steve can work his magic and we're just
so thankful for that and can't wait to see it all all come together and where it's going to take us.
(57:11):
Yeah. Well, again, if you haven't seen the trailer, go to leaving Amy.com.
That's leaving Amy.com. I'm so excited about this film. The trailer is amazing.
Thank you guys so much for joining the dark side of the rainbow.
Thank you, Robert. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. And I expect we'll have
(57:32):
you all back when the movie premieres or maybe sooner, just for whatever.
Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you.
This episode of The Dark Side of the Rainbow is sponsored by us.
We wanted to let you know that we have a huge online store full of official,
gotta get the official, Gays Against Groomers merch.
Each purchase really helps us continue our fight, and it's also a great way
(00:23):
to spread an important message. So, check it out at shop.gaysagainstgroomers.com.
That's shop.gaysagainstgroomers.com. And to learn more about our organization,
donate to our cause, or get involved, just visit gaysagainstgroomers.com.
(00:44):
And if you're interested in sponsoring this, please reach out at podcast at
gaysagainstgroomers.com.
Music.
(01:09):
Welcome to the dark side of the rainbow this is robert wallace and this is a
gaze against groomers production and we have a couple gaze against groomers
members some very prominent members,
our director of communication and our director of content.
And they are being featured in a film which has just had its trailer released, and it is jaw-dropping.
(01:39):
You can hear that right,
So, I first experienced gender dysphoria around age five.
Mom, Dad, I think something's wrong with me.
So, I had my top surgery. It ended up being one of the most traumatic experiences of my life.
(02:07):
If I'd seen all of these pictures of these trans men with the perfect top surgery,
they are selling this in a romanticized way.
It was sold like that to me. They told me that transitioning would be the cure to my problems.
Everything I'd been feeling would go away, but what they didn't tell me was
that I'd actually suffer more.
I have permanent nerve damage.
(02:27):
I had to watch Matt be bed-bound for months. I would wake up in pools of blood. I have infections.
My head has constantly felt like it's in a vice. I couldn't do anything.
I couldn't take care of the person that I loved. I have seizure-like spasms
all the time. I have a tick that comes and goes.
The ticking got really bad at one point to the point I was slapping myself around
(02:49):
the face in front of people.
The medical industry sells this lie, and then they can't fix it.
I'm stuck looking like this for the rest of my life. You can take hormones,
you can have surgery and look a certain way, but it doesn't change who you are.
It never goes away. It just gets worse because you do all these changes and
(03:09):
you can't reach that goal.
You can't reach it You will never reach it because you are not that gender They lied to me.
They lied to my face and Now know that all of it could have been avoided if
I'd have been told the truth If I can save just one child from this and I would die happy.
Music.
(03:41):
I just raised atheists, my family were never believers.
I was getting really overwhelmed, I remember standing in my room and I called
out and I said Jesus and all of a sudden,
I just felt this overwhelming wash over me of peace that I have never felt in my life.
(04:06):
Music.
(04:30):
I actually had a really hard phone call with my mom, and I told her that I was
sorry for taking her little girl away, because that's what I did.
Matt and Jude, thank you for joining,
and thank you for coming out to tell us a bit more about Matt's story of being
(04:52):
a detransitioner and all of the side effects that were never shared.
And so all these kids nowadays are being led down this road
of misinformation so if you could just go back matt
the film was called leaving amy who's amy
that is correct we took a long time trying to figure out what the title was
going to be we were thinking of all these different things but some of them
(05:15):
had already kind of been done before for other things to do with this topic
and then it hit me i was like you know when i made this decision i left her
behind that little girl was left behind for this new person.
And I've reached a stage where I'm comfortable with my past now.
And I'm finally willing to.
That's beautiful. You know, there was a really heart-wrenching moment at the end of that trailer,
(05:39):
where you're recounting that moment where you called your mother to really apologize
for removing Amy, her daughter from her life.
And I think you can really hear from
that that you recognize that something
had happened that maybe shouldn't have happened and you
feel terrible about it because there's nothing you can do now where do you think
(06:04):
what's the main lesson or the message that kids youth who are considering going
down these irreparable routes should be asking themselves I think they need to.
Ask themselves if this is something they really want and also to be aware of
the fact that this is something that isn't for them at that age.
(06:26):
The fact that I was an adult when I finally went through medicalization and
I had all of these side effects, it absolutely devastates me to wonder what
it would do to these poor children whose bodies and minds aren't even fully developed yet.
It's absolutely barbaric. And I also want them to think about it in a sense of,
you know, know like learn that they're perfect just
(06:48):
how they are there's nothing wrong with them gender dysphoria
is very similar to having body dysmorphia and
i think there are other ways that this needs to be
dealt with these children need to be taught how to love themselves and
be comfortable in their skin rather than being told that they
have to go through these extreme surgeries in order
to find themselves because it isn't the answer your true
(07:10):
self is within you no surgeries or hormones
will bring that person out you need to learn
who you are on the inside that is what is the most important wow for
anything is done i mean honestly if
people just do still feel the same way adults can do
whatever they want but as far as rushing into this there are so many things
that can happen and as kids underdeveloped it's just it's too risky so adults
(07:35):
are free to take that risk if that's what you really decide but but what happened
to matt can happen to anyone and so So we want to expose that with this film.
Matt's case is fairly unique in the sense that when Matt moved to America,
we went to a clinic out here where we live that were pretty clueless openly in front of us.
(07:55):
And the doctor essentially, like we watched her Google it in front of us and just sort of be like,
this looks good and put Matt on this dose of testosterone and that we later
found out through a hormone specialist was egregiously high. Wow.
And not only that, but because I was taking that dose every two weeks,
(08:15):
there was a reserve left in my body of the testosterone every time I took my next shot.
So it was building up even more in my body in between that time to the point
where I got as sick as I did. That's incredible.
Talk about malpractice.
So there was one thing I kind of wanted to go back and address really quick.
One of the primary focus of Gays Against Groomers is to protect the youth.
(08:40):
And but your situation i think is
a unique warning because you weren't even still
yet merely a child you were what 25 or so when you went through this transition
yeah i went to my appointments at first at 24 and then i started hormones at
26 had my top surgery at 29 and i had all of these health issues so just imagine
(09:03):
what these things are going to do these poor four children.
And how many, and you're 32 now, right? Yes.
And so, and so you're about a year into your detransition, a bit over a year or so? Yeah. Yeah.
About a year and a half since I stopped taking testosterone.
And the crazy thing about it is I actually got sicker when I stopped.
So it's, it's not even a matter of, Oh, if I stopped taking this,
(09:26):
I'm going to be fine because the body goes into shock after that and wonders
where that hormone has gone.
And it's not as simple was then taking
estrogen again because that would actually mess my body up even more.
It's a lose-lose situation and the
fact that they are selling this and saying things like oh you can you can stop
these things whenever you want no it doesn't work like that it doesn't work
(09:49):
like that because the longer you've taken it your body has to recover from that
yeah you know what was that june i was just saying the longer you've been on
it the worse it is you basically have you're a a medical patient for life.
So it's a very serious decision. And like, we understand that.
At least adults can comprehend that. But things can happen.
Malpractice can happen. You
know, you never really know if you're going to the right doctor or not.
(10:11):
And I mean, I guess we should have seen the warning sign when the doctor was Googling in front of us.
But you know, you trust a professional just to figure it out for themselves.
You trust that they know what they're doing. But it was really strange at the
time. And then Matt started having chest pains.
And we were we started easing up on the dosing because Matt was like,
you know, I'm really not feeling right a couple months into it.
(10:32):
And so we were like, spacing it out more until Matt was like,
I just I don't want to do this anymore.
We need to stop until we figure out what's going on. And by the end of 2022,
the first time we went to Amfest, we already knew something was wrong.
And I mean, Matt doesn't travel super well. But at the time that Matt was pretty sick.
And it was a rough trip. I mean, it was worth it, but it was rough.
And then, you know, we went back and forth on what we were going to do if Matt
(10:56):
was going to get back on testosterone because of what we were talking about,
because your body goes into shock. And, you know, it's not able to produce the same things anymore.
And, you know, we were like, do we go to California? What do we do? What do we do?
And our friends finally convinced us to start a fundraiser. And that helped
us get to a hormone specialist.
We got a lot of wonderful recommendations from people. And, you know,
(11:17):
we saw some hope that summer in 2023.
But then things took a dive again, you know, because things have always been
a bit inconsistent with us.
Matt's not able to work and my work's kind of inconsistent. consistent.
And when Matt's health takes a dive, that's all I can really think about.
I go into like caretaker mode.
So that's taken a toll on me as well.
(11:38):
Unfortunately, I got burnt out many times and when I feel like I've done everything
and I don't know what else to do, that's when I start to kind of lose it.
And we had a few times like that where I've just holding Matt crying kind of
thing. Because I would...
There's nothing else I can do. You know, we just had to wait for things to pass
(11:59):
for these episodes to pass.
But the overprescription of testosterone was causing seizures and quitting it was causing seizures.
And it's just been a really hard time, especially the last two years.
And we were both just spent at the beginning of this year. I mean,
Matt was really, really sick at the end of 2023.
And we've taken him to the ER. And I mean, the MRI was normal. So that was good.
(12:22):
No immediate tumor or anything, because I mean, I wasn't sure what else was
going on, but it's been a trip.
You know, I think the back to that, you know, really hard lesson that I that
I just keep getting from your particular case is just how even as an adult,
one could come to see this as a as an option or a therapy to their mental struggles.
(12:45):
And if that can happen, how much easier it is for kids going through adolescence,
going through their sexual maturation.
Who are coming to terms with their sexuality and to have all these very grown
up options put in front of them, options whose effects are never truly fully explained.
(13:07):
And so now you're here, you're living through that and you've got your the biological
effects of how it's making you feel.
And then there's the psychological effects, the tics and the mental disturbance
of peace. Yeah, one of the most horrible things as well was the gaslighting.
I had a gender affirming care doctor comment on the video of me having a seizure,
(13:31):
saying hormones don't do this, even though I had doctor's notes confirming that they did.
So these people they are giving
people experimental drugs they don't actually know the
full extent of the side effect people can have but if someone
is to have one that doesn't suit their narrative they
are shutting it down like it never happened even when the medical evidence is
(13:52):
there these people are so willing to assist you when they want to put you on
these experimental drugs but the moment that you need help because you get sick
from them they will they won't take any accountability for it it's like it never
happened when i got sick from the the testosterone I was prescribed,
Jude rang up the clinic that prescribed it to me, told them what had happened,
and they denied even giving it to me. They said, oh, we don't do that here.
(14:15):
And when Jude then said, oh, yes, you did and proved it, they didn't even apologize.
And I was in such shock. I mean, I wish I'd recorded the phone call because
I didn't really expect to get that answer.
I had the paperwork in front of me. I was like, excuse me. You know,
I just you just don't expect that.
I wasn't I wasn't calling with the intent of like exposing them already.
I was looking for answers, you know, and we've had people tell us hormonal epilepsy
(14:40):
is absolutely a thing. and I was looking things up quickly.
And it's catamenial epilepsy is something that can happen with like menstrual,
it's also known as menstrual seizures.
So, you know, because of Matt's body trying to correct itself and bring back
that those hormones to correct levels.
I mean, the labs showed that Matt's body had the hormone levels of simultaneously
(15:01):
a pregnant woman, a menopausal woman.
And what was the third thing? It was just in someone on their period,
you know, it was like all at the same time. So that can cause seizures.
And that that is what we were told by a hormonal specialist.
So to have people, you know, try to deny it or talk crap to us is just it's it's frustrating.
(15:23):
You know, it makes you wish you could slap someone through the phone.
But it's it's it's just something that can happen.
And I it's the worst part, I think, is just has been trying to deal with that
and make people understand because I've even had I had friends look me in the
face and just be like, that's not possible.
I'm like, it is, though. Is this film, because all this is going to be discussed in that film. Yeah.
(15:45):
And the production of this film, in terms of the interviews that have happened,
you've got, you guys are in it, of course.
Who else is going to be part of this project and what kind of segments should we look for?
So we're going to have the truthful therapist, Pamela Garfield,
in there. Mia, the author of the WPATH files, is going to be in it.
(16:08):
Jamie and Sasha are going to be in the documentary.
The head of America's frontline nurses, Nicole Siratek, is going to be in there
explaining the dangers of Cipionate.
That was the hormone that I was actually on.
And she's done research recently showing that a lot of it is actually, it's contaminated.
Which is actually interesting because when I first got sick,
(16:29):
Buck Angel reached out to me and asked me what tea I'd been on.
And when I told him, he said that every single trans man he knew that had been
on that T had also been sick. So her research will be shown.
Dr. Neil Morris, the health professional who dealt with me when I got sick,
he is a hormone expert. Absolutely incredible at his work.
He was the one who saw me and took my blood and told me about the prescription.
(16:49):
He has agreed to be in the documentary as well.
Lindsey Graham, the Patriot Barbie, is also going to be in a documentary.
So is Sikh Smith, the head of Mum Army.
We want to get as many perspectives from, you know, health professionals,
the mama bears who are having to witness this with their children and worried about them.
And we are bringing on board as many people as we can to expose this lie and
(17:11):
protect children from this happening any better.
And the more support we get, the more we can do. Yes. That's amazing.
You got such a great lineup of people. This film is being produced by Stephen
Sorensen, who is the filmmaker for Beneath Sheep's Clothing.
Which is a documentary that Gaze Against Groomers also participated in.
(17:34):
BeneathSheep'sClothing.movie.
Yours truly made a little appearance there.
And he's now producing Leaving Amy.
And if you can see this trailer, you might have to go online.
If you're listening to the podcast or on the radio, you might have to go to watch this.
But the web address is LeavingAmy.com. Is that right?
Yes. You were the only one. You got it. Yeah, we did.
(17:59):
I forgot the rights to that lincoln park song featured
in the trailer which we were very excited about because we thought it was
perfect and we wanted connor chester bennington and
his fight against you know child trafficking and child abuse
as well so exactly yeah that was
the connection that popped into my head there so we've
got this film getting ready to come out what
(18:21):
kind of ambitions do we have for do are we
looking like it's going to go on the route of netflix we're
gonna have a movie theater release or what the support
we get for the film because obviously we're not hollywood we're
having to crowdfund it but the aim we have is
that we want it to show in movie theaters across the states
we want it to be streamable online and we are also going
(18:42):
to pitch it to netflix and amazon prime we know
that that might be difficult because of their views but at the same time
surely all trans perspectives should matter if
they care so much otherwise their bias is truly showing
so we are aiming to get it to them and we'll
see what happens there but if not we are going to go for movie theater
release and streaming and we're hoping to maybe have a watch party of some kind
(19:04):
that i mean with gag especially that would be really fun which would most likely
happen in phoenix arizona because we're closest to there we're out in arizona
we're up north but that that would be probably the the best idea i think and
And somebody in gag suggested that. And we love that idea.
So hopefully we can make that happen and get get like an early viewing of that
(19:25):
for everybody involved and our members to see it first.
So fingers crossed. Well, I'm excited to see what other formats this project takes.
You know, maybe a book version. You got to do the audio book, maybe a course.
Yeah. However, however, you got to get the message out there.
(19:46):
So Leaving Amy is going to be focusing on your story in particular, Matt.
What is the angle for the national media?
Interest level are you is the film going to discuss
legislation or more broadly
what's affecting the the increase
(20:06):
in trans identifying youth yes absolutely and now
that the cash report has been released we're definitely going to feature that
in there too to back up what we're saying because that report is so powerful
it is so powerful and we needed that it's it's an absolute game changer and
i'm so happy that the report came out now so that we can actually incorporate it So, yeah, for sure.
(20:26):
I'm going to be passing Steve a whole lot of research since I'm writing it,
which is essentially means I'm structuring it and writing out interview questions
for people who are involved.
I'm going to be giving Steve as much material as I possibly can and,
you know, just watch his brilliant editing skills and see what he can whip up with it.
So we're really looking forward to that. He's amazing. That's yeah, that's excellent.
(20:48):
How did you guys get involved in this project? What were the first things that happened?
I assume you met Steve, you had told him a bit of your story,
and you guys just kind of hit it off.
Yeah, so we met Steve at America's Best last year, and obviously he had the
booth out with Julie Burlings, being Neve Sheep's clothing.
And he just loves the organization. He absolutely loves our work.
(21:10):
And when I told him what was going on with me, I could see that it really changed.
Like it really touched him. And he was like, let's make a film about this.
And at first it was going to be a short documentary, a little short film.
But once we realized how much content we actually had, we realized we could
turn it into a full length feature film.
So it just went from there. And he's been so passionate and he's been so keen.
(21:32):
We've stayed in contact a lot.
And he really knocked it out of the park with the trailer.
And we just absolutely can't wait to see where the rest of the film goes,
because his creative vision is just beautiful.
Like when we watched the trailer for the first time when
he sent it to us we were both crying watching it i was so overwhelmed
you know like i i knew he was going to do a great job but when i saw how well
(21:53):
he actually did it i was so grateful you know i i can just tell that god was
moving his hand because that trailer is so powerful there's no other way it's
actually truly special yeah Yeah. Yeah, absolutely is.
Are you guys going to be doing any additional projects?
And do you have anything else in the works or is right now just focusing on this?
(22:17):
This is something that you've got some of the video recorded from your guys's
from where this trailer was pulled. You've got more interviews to add.
So this film is very much still in the making.
It's still very much taking speaking in funds.
So where would somebody go if they want to contribute toward the funding of this?
(22:37):
They would go to the website, leavingamy.com. And then there's a button on the
website saying support, and it would lead to the Give, Send, Go.
We're using Give, Send, Go because GoFundMe has a habit of shutting down anyone
trying to speak out against the narrative. Give, Send, Go are incredible.
So we're raising the money there. And that's going to help the film come to
(22:59):
completion. It's going to help us get it shown in those theatres across the state.
It's going to help us pay the people involved for their time and also help with
my medical costs because I have medical bills and I still need to see a neurologist, etc.
And then also we're going to give money to the org as well.
Yeah, they've done so much for us. So of course, you know, we want to pay them
back and just make sure that anybody involved did pay for the time,
(23:22):
like we said, and any travel expenses, we might need to go film the documentary.
Steve was mentioning he wants me to tag along to help interview because he likes
to just be the camera guy. So I was like, you know, no problem.
Because last summer, I had a project in which I interviewed six different people for an hour each.
So I have definitely have an idea of how to go about it. I'm very excited for that.
(23:44):
It's kind of weird saying my name in the credits written by Judith Rose.
I was like, wow, I'm doing this. We're doing this. It's happening. Yeah.
So, you know, and I'm just so happy that my first big project is going to be
dedicated to the person I love and help as many people as possible.
So, you know, we're used to exposing things, you know, so we're happy to do it. We're glad to do it.
(24:07):
And And medical malpractice is just one of the most evil things that can absolutely ruin your life.
So if we can help people avoid this, that's what we want to do.
And just get the message out there as fast as we can. We've already had so much
support, even in the last like 48 hours.
I mean, we've had gag posts and pin it in a tweet.
Allison from OAN wants me to, wants both of us really to come on and talk about it.
(24:30):
We got Tucker Carlson's attention already and it's coming together quickly.
So I think it's just a matter of time before we get the support that we need.
It's probably not going to take long.
We have an amazing network, people who adore us. And we're so grateful for that. We're so blessed.
And shout out to Bobby Sauce, who just made a video that we saw right before
we came on because it was just so sweet of him.
(24:53):
He recorded in front of the movie poster, basically, and told everybody about it.
We're so touched by that. he's lovely he's been so supportive ever since I was
doxxed back in 2020 in Alcides France he was so wonderful he reached out and he was like
look I already love the stuff you're putting out there and
I know you feel upset that you've been dogs but I think it's gonna be beautiful for
(25:14):
you and you was right because I'm now part of this battle
to save children and first I thought it was a curse
but it did turn out to be my biggest blessing it really did that was before
everything as well before gay skin streamers when we were just sort of posting
Matt and I weren't even together in the states yet and Matt hadn't come out
as trans Matt was just posting on the internet and we'd been talking for a couple
(25:34):
months so So someone Matt used to work with was feeling bitter, I guess,
and talking smack on his live.
And we didn't even know until somebody sent us a clip of it.
And he even accused me of being trans, which I thought was really funny because
I'm absolutely not 100% natural woman. But no, it was it was pathetic.
So and the best part is, is that it became Matt's strength.
(25:58):
Yeah, it all led to that. Yeah, 100%. sense. So he's probably kicking himself quite a bit right now.
If he's still around, who knows? I don't know.
So let me ask you, Jude, what kind of advice would you give to somebody who's in your position?
You care or love somebody who's gone down the route of transitioning,
(26:20):
and now maybe you're starting to.
Observe little unexpected phenomena ticks
or things like that how would you recommend somebody
approach their the person they're caring for well personally we we tend to use
you know the medical industry as a last resort i was raised to use natural remedies
(26:42):
and rely on like herbs teas all that kinds of things before you go to the doctor
and not not that you know you shouldn't go.
But I mean, my mom raised me on this natural remedy.
So that was the first thing that I looked into. We discovered magnolia tea is
great for hormonal imbalances.
We discovered we need to make sure Matt's getting vitamin D, magnesium.
(27:04):
We used tinctures with this, like a whole mix of like different roots and sheilagic
resin, like really anything that people recommended or sent along that was natural.
We went with it, just things to keep balance in the body, you know,
But then there's this psychological aspect of feeling helpless and feeling overwhelmed.
And that's been pretty hard, too. So I also had to get on some stress supplements
(27:27):
and things like that to kind of just level me out a bit.
And find people you can talk to about it who aren't going to judge you.
Just do the best you can. And just make sure you're also balancing your own
health and your own mental health.
That can be difficult between the two of us. It's been a lot.
But, you know, we've kind of taken turns going through bouts of depression and
(27:48):
just feeling like we're never going to get out of this.
It's been one step forward, two steps back, up and down, left, right.
And just not knowing how to handle it. You know, when Matt's having an episode,
I jump up and I try everything.
I'm like, OK, do you need a tincture? Do you need ibuprofen?
Do you need this? Do you need a cup of tea?
Do you need it? I will just try everything in my arsenal, you know, before anything.
(28:09):
And, you know, occasionally we'll call up Nicole, the American frontline nurse,
if things are getting really bad. She's walked us through Matt having a seizure before and
It can be really scary, you know, especially because we can't necessarily treat
every single episode like an emergency.
I can't be running back and forth to the ER. So we do our best to hold it down
and just try everything and wait it out, which is sometimes really scary.
(28:31):
You know, Matt's woken up with chest pains before.
That hasn't happened in a while. So we're really thankful for that.
Detoxing can be really important, you know, because you want to get that stuff
out of your body that you don't need. Lots of steam.
There's like detox supplements you can take. Like I said, we took a lot of recommendations
from people and we just tried it out.
(28:52):
And I've seen a definitely improvement, but it's been an up and down situation.
This year, things have leveled out a bit. It hasn't been quite as severe as
the last few months of 2023.
I was really scared then, really tired. I really didn't know what else to do.
And sometimes I'd have to just call somebody and talk about it.
But a lot of the times we kept things to ourselves.
I mean, people can be really judgmental, especially on the internet.
(29:14):
So it's not really a place to like vent about bad days because people just kind of jump on you.
Well, they just say really mean things, you know, you can imagine,
especially trying to show people what's going on.
And they just they just getting a snippet, people's perspective.
Excuse me, can be really skewed.
And they just say awful things because they don't know what they're talking about.
(29:35):
So many times we just kept the worst days to ourselves.
And I just tried my best. You know, it's been tough.
You know, they say you're a patient for life once you begin to undergo this
transition, and that each patient's worth around a million dollars to the medical
pharmaceutical industry.
(29:56):
So can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, absolutely.
In fact, when I was interviewed by Turning Point UK two years ago at America
Fest, I mentioned the $1 million thing.
And that was because I saw a video, someone had taken a secret camera into a
room where nurses were discussing these therapies, and they were talking about
(30:18):
how they get paid a million dollars.
They were bragging about it. That's somebody's life, but they just see it as this.
And no one could tell me otherwise at this point. I am 100% convinced this isn't
healthcare. It is a business.
That is all it is, especially in this country, you know, because these health
professionals already get paid a lot as it is.
And then they see this, and it's just a huge money-making scheme.
(30:41):
And the fact that the people, like you said, they are patients for life because
they have to keep getting their hormones.
They have to pay for these surgeries. and if they take if they
come off it then they have to repair their health and that doesn't happen straight away
either you know i've been i'm still suffering over a year
later so it is greed they don't
care about you they pretend they do oh when i when i was
in the middle of transitioning they they romanticized it
(31:03):
to me so much you know they they romanticize the whole thing
you know they tell you that your mental health will
be completely fine once you do this and you won't
be suicidal anymore and all you can be your true self
what they don't tell you is that like i
said in the trailer you can have all these changes you can
take the hormones you can have the surgeries but it doesn't change who
(31:23):
you are inside in fact one of the first reality checks i had with that was when
i went out with my friends years ago to a bar and obviously where i looked like
a man from that point onwards the bouncer assumed i was and my friends tried
to sneak into the smoking area and the bouncer got handsy with me he was throwing me around like
really forceful when I was thinking, oh no, this is not good.
(31:45):
This is not good because I'm a woman, you know, I'm a biological woman.
And in that moment, I truly realized that because I felt really,
really scared to everybody.
Not necessarily that situation, but no matter what happens, you are going to
find these social situations, whether it's going into a store and you not passing,
for example, you are always going to be reminded about your past.
It is not going to go away.
(32:06):
You cannot change your sex.
Yeah. So rather than trying to kill off who you were.
I mean, in Matt's situation, we're trying to honor who Matt was, which was Amy.
And, you know, some people, they do this almost like ritual,
basically, where they have like a funeral for their old self.
And they just tell everyone they're fully different person.
(32:26):
Now they even start acting differently, which can be really scary for the people
around them, the people who knew them, and the family members, close friends, etc.
And, you know, I think it's, it's rare when it, when it does work out,
but, you know, like we said, if you're happy with your transition,
that's fantastic for you. Wonderful.
It doesn't change the fact that you're still a permanent medical patient.
(32:48):
It doesn't change your chromosomes or your DNA.
You know, I consider it more of a body modification than anything.
And I'm, I don't, I don't hate anyone who does this to themselves.
It's, there's, in that sense, it's no, there's nothing wrong with it,
but you have to tell the truth.
At least tell the truth, you know, don't pretend like you've been this way your whole life.
(33:09):
You know, you, when you have to go through all these surgeries and take hormones
just to be happy with yourself, it kind of says something about your mental
health and loving yourself.
You know, it's, it doesn't have to be that difficult, but I feel for the people
who've, you know, feel the need to do that.
That's, that's on you, you know, it's okay. But like we said,
But in Matt's case, we had some malpractice involved and Matt's top surgery
(33:34):
didn't go that well either.
So it's tough when it doesn't work out because of how romanticized it is.
And it's only fair if we get the other side of the story, especially because
of what's being pushed in the mainstream right now and how they're trying to
say this stuff is life-saving and it's going to fix everything.
And that might not be the case. And especially for kids,
(33:55):
when they're trying to get them as young as possible now and make puberty super
this super scary thing that you want to avoid like oh no you're gonna have to
go through female puberty you don't want to do that let's get you to the doctor
that's not okay that's not okay at all you know it doesn't it does not give
them a chance to have a normal.
Childhood they're they're not going to develop right and i just don't understand
(34:16):
the people that are in denial about this i mean at least more research is coming
out but how many kids are going to get damaged in the process before the whole
world finally wakes up and it's like like, oh, yeah, child sex changes are bad.
Like, how is this even a debate? Right. You know, that kind of brings me to
the question of the origins of this whole thing, because on one hand,
(34:37):
it's clearly does not look like that it's coming up out of like an organic need.
Like society is clamoring for more trans options.
It seems that all of a sudden that the powers that be, the ones that control
the conglomerates and all the marketing and all of this have top-down made the
(34:58):
trans matter of such high priority.
They've propagandized society with it for so long that we've all become so indoctrinated
with this dogma through advertising,
through media in the government,
that we see a major uptick in the interest in the
(35:18):
trans-identifying youth so you know we could say sure there's been people that
have been on the spectrum of you know trans identification one place or another
all throughout history and time and then we can also look at the huge major
uptick we now have up to 40% of Gen Z.
Identifying somewhere in the lgbtqia plus spectrum
(35:41):
so what do you say i don't understand how they
don't see this because i mean as as millennials
in our 30s now we know what life was like before the internet was in our face
24 7 and how how you could deny the fact the uptick in social media from about
2010 on you know how do you not see the influence there you know we're always
(36:02):
on these things on our phones we're always on social media now we're always looking at headlines.
I was looking at news. It's in our pockets.
It used to be I had to sit down on a computer, wait for the internet to connect,
and you could actually just unplug, walk away from it, not even think about it.
And I used to have a flip phone that you could text Twitter to send a post.
(36:24):
And we would only use it to warn our friends about speed traps around the corner.
You're like, that's how far we've come.
It wasn't always just constantly streaming screaming into your brain.
So I just want people to consider that. It's really had an effect on the mental
health, especially of the youth and girls in particular are constantly comparing
(36:46):
themselves, feeling bad about themselves.
Everyone's posting their perfect little life snapshots, even though even that's a deception.
And then you have all this propaganda that was injected into the midst of that.
It's obvious to some of us, but to everyone else, I think we've We've been desensitized
by it. We were so used to it.
We don't understand how we're being influenced. Yeah, absolutely.
(37:08):
Matt, what do you think about the issue of trans hate? Do you think transphobia
is actually an increase?
Would you say that the perception of the increase of transphobic so-called behavior
has anything to do with society being turned off with what's happening in the schools?
(37:35):
What are the dynamics there? I don't believe there is an increase in transphobia
because the people who were trans like me, who kept to themselves,
they are still doing that.
It's this woke mentality that has surfaced. It's mostly these non-binary people
and the extreme views they are pushing and AGPs and it's all being forced on
(37:59):
children that is causing this concern.
And they're not they're not realizing that they're taking it as an attack on
themselves, which is a them issue for a start, because they're taking things personal.
How they can see protecting children from permanent service is an attack on them is beyond me.
You know, it's an attack on children. It's nothing to do with them.
And if they take it personally, then they need to look at themselves.
(38:22):
People like Bert, people like the offensive Trani, etc..
They don't take offense i never took offense it's it's
literally this woke mob the ones who call themselves
the queer community that are screaming genocide
but what what does worry me though is the more they scream genocide and they
(38:44):
the more they push this ideology onto children the people who want to be left
alone the parents are going to start getting to a point where they say enough is enough.
And we are already seeing that. And that is when I worry that this violence
and increase in transphobia could actually happen because they won't be able
(39:05):
to differentiate it anymore. And they will see it as all bad.
These people who are screaming genocide are going to bring this bad stuff on
themselves because of what they're doing.
Parents want to protect their kids. There is one thing that people draw the
line on, and that is harming children.
And that is exactly what we're seeing here. Yeah, I think it's creating a lot
of resentment of the community, but it's not even necessarily the community's fault.
(39:27):
I mean, and a lot of LGBT people don't really consider themselves part of any sort of community.
They just are who they are, you know? And then, but basically the LGBTQ has
become this corporation that is, you know, is forcing itself upon,
you know, all these media companies.
I mean, the products we consume, I mean, they just slap a rainbow on it,
(39:47):
slap a trans person on it and go inclusivity.
Yay. You have representation. Yay.
And it's so prominent now that it is building resentment.
People are like, hold on. Like, you can't pretend like this is so normal.
This is just, we're still a very small percentage of the population. That is just a fact.
(40:08):
And we were like, after gay rights and gay marriage became legal,
there was a moment of peace, you know, where everything was balanced. That's what we wanted.
What else could you do? And it's almost like these corporations up at the top
were like, we need a new money making opportunity.
We need a new way to take advantage of these minorities, of these marginalized
(40:31):
people. We need to create a new marginalized group.
We need to get people angry and we need to shove this thing down people's throats.
We need to put it into the education system.
You know, and it's I don't think it's about equality at all,
because it's become this almost tyrannical mindset of supremacy, if anything.
And now you have these trans people, quote unquote, that are super angry and
(40:55):
that we're starting to see an uptick in violence as well.
And we just had a case where an 18 year old trans identifying female,
she's considered consider herself a male, threatened to shoot up an elementary school.
So, you know, the thing about hormones is they can make you very unstable.
They're very important when it comes to your mental health. And,
(41:16):
you know, that's why women get cranky once a month.
And so imagine injecting that. And we're seeing the effects of this now.
You imbalance an already imbalanced part of the population, which is the youth
and teens, when they're already going through the turmoil of puberty and hormonal
chaos as it is, you put hormones in that mix.
(41:37):
We're starting to see how bad that can get. And that's what's creating a lot of resentment.
This agenda has been pushed so far that it's weaponizing the youth.
It's not OK. Do you feel like there's this can go for either of you or both of you?
Do you feel like maybe there's some kind of like gay genocide happening?
Like the thing that's happening in the name of gay interests is actually actively
(42:02):
sterilizing these people and destroying their lives and splitting the community.
It's splitting up people's identifications of themselves so they can't just live a gay life.
They have to now be some kind of trans queer. queer
do you yeah it's it's it's
really sad especially when you see what
(42:24):
it's doing mainly to little girls because most girls experience a tomboy phase
and they're having that taken away from them now instead they're being told
oh you like you you like sport oh you like the color blue you like cars did
you know you're a boy and it's actually you know these people calling
people speaking out against this stuff homophobic but
(42:46):
i can't think of anything more homophobic than telling a
little girl that she's a boy it's it's it's horrific it
it has to stop it's i can't i
can't even believe we actually how we got here to be honest i mean i can see
how because we've watched it happen but it's absolutely disgusting yeah so i
mean back to the you know our project that's one of the things we want to talk
(43:09):
about as well because you know matt was uh matt Matt was a tomboy, very much masculine.
And I think that was a huge part of it as well. So it can be confusing for young
women and young girls who just want to be themselves and everything.
But it's been really sad to watch. And again, I think it's creating a lot of
(43:29):
resentment in the community and breaking apart the community as well.
Whatever is left of it, even whoever consider themselves part of it.
Really pissing off the lesbians, frankly. Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah, it is. And what's really funny is one of the most,
well, it was the most popular dating app for lesbians, the Her app.
They basically pushed all the masculine lesbians off the app and replaced them for these AGPs.
(43:56):
And now they actually put an ad out saying that they are offering lifetime memberships
to masks because they need them back on the app.
And what I find hilarious about it is back in 2016, before I even started hormones,
I tried to be on there and clearly I looked like a lesbian back then and they
rejected me and I was a biological female.
(44:17):
So it's absolutely insane what is happening right now. Yeah.
By the way, for the listeners, can you tell us what AGP is?
Autogynephile. It's the men who say they are trans, but really they are fetishists.
You know, these are the ones you read about on Reddit who say the most unhinged
(44:39):
things that come from a porn-ridden mom.
And they think it makes you a woman when women don't act like that.
And these are the ones also who are committing these crimes and then deciding
they're women once they're in jail. That's the kind of people we're talking about.
Yeah, basically men in wigs, you know, essentially that they go into a bathroom
and then they take a picture of their boner because they're in a woman's bathroom.
(45:00):
Like it's a fetish. It's a fetish.
Right, right. Yeah, no, I've heard of that, actually, but just not as an abbreviation like that.
So who's this film for? It's for parents? It's for young people?
What age group and, you know, what kind of demographics are you hoping to...
(45:21):
It's going to be appropriate for everyone, even students.
In fact, one thing that really moved us was a member of the school district
actually said, like, will this film be appropriate to show to the students?
And that's exactly what we want.
Yes. High schoolers. High schoolers. We want this to get to them so that they
don't fall into this trap.
(45:41):
This is going to be ideal for anyone who needs to hear it.
I would say, let's say 14 plus, you know, if you're going to watch it on your
own, but very important for parents and teenagers,
particularly, you know, below that, I'm not sure they would have the comprehension,
but you never really know. And that's up to the parents' discretion.
(46:01):
So we definitely want adults to see it first and make that decision.
But we would love for high school students to be seeing this,
especially because if you're going to show all this other, you know,
inclusive representation, rainbow everywhere stuff, you need to show all of
it. You need to show what the good and the bad. Yeah.
You know, we were talking earlier and about something that now I'm wondering,
(46:27):
can you create, for instance, a list?
You know, some people, when they become adults, they decide that they're going
to go the route of transing themselves.
And we say, fine, you're an adult, do your own thing. For the kids,
we say, wait till you have reached the age of majority or your brain is matured.
So that way you can at least say, hey, I made a choice.
(46:49):
Maybe it's the right one. Maybe it's the wrong one. But you made an informed choice.
What would you say would be like a list of five or ten things or just whatever
you could think of to say, okay, before somebody goes and takes that puberty
blocker or that hormone replacement therapy?
These are like the main questions I should have asked myself before.
(47:12):
But I didn't. And maybe you should ask yourself, and maybe it might keep you from pursuing that.
Well, the thing is, nobody really knows who they are when they're growing up.
I mean, if you ask an adult, if they're exactly who they thought they'd be at,
what, like 12 years old, they're going to say no.
Childhood is complex. It's messy. It's a lot of exploration.
(47:39):
It's a lot of change. It's a lot of constant change. And that's going to be
it's all going to be based on your experiences and what's going on with your
body, which is is natural.
You know, I hate to see puberty demonized because it's something that we all
need to go through to get a proper development, to develop our brains and our bones.
And I mean, frankly, it's a common knowledge that the brain doesn't fully develop
(48:01):
until mid 20s or further.
If you like, if you have ADHD, they're saying your brain development could be
delayed beyond 25. five.
It's something to consider. You know, if you have other things going on with
you, depression, anxiety, ADHD, other disorders that you figure out early enough,
that's something to consider.
You want to wait making any major decisions because you could just really regret
(48:25):
that and end up realizing that, oh, I was just kind of imbalanced at the time.
I don't feel the same way anymore.
Definitely hold off on surgeries until you're fully developed.
Because I mean, The thing is, if you get on puberty blockers and you try to
go for surgery, a lot of the times you won't even be developed properly to get the surgery.
It's horrific what can happen.
(48:46):
I don't want kids to think that puberty is scary, for one thing.
It's uncomfortable. Of course, it sucks. But that doesn't mean that trying to
block it or delay it is going to fix you at all.
If anything, it's going to take the train off the rails and more and more evidence
is coming out that they're not reversible.
(49:08):
I mean, we're seeing some studies that are showing the long-term effects it
can have on males in particular, causing sterility, infertility,
atrophy, your reproductive organs, which is just awful, very, very painful.
And, you know, we just want kids to think about that, about that,
you know, you could be causing yourself a lifetime of pain.
(49:29):
You don't know that yet. You don't know yourself yet. It's complex.
You know, it's a lot to consider, but hopefully that helps. Yeah,
it does. Let me ask you, autism.
We know that the vast majority of trans identifying individuals can be located
somewhere in the spectrum of autism.
(49:52):
And I've talked to you about this, Jude, because I've thought about that.
I thought, well, if most trans people are coming out of the gay community,
most trans people are found somewhere in the spectrum of autism.
It makes you wonder about the spectrum of autism and, you know,
the gay demographic also.
(50:13):
You know, I think there's like you have some overlap there.
So what can you tell us, Matt, about how, you know, maybe any connection to
that or any struggles that might come from that could have influenced your decision? Yeah.
One of the main factors is how impressionable autistic people,
(50:35):
you know, they latch on to things.
So with this social contagion going on right now, the things they're being told,
especially when they're being taught it in schools as well, they're being sold this identity.
And, you know, I found out I was autistic as an adult. I had to take an adult
test because I thought I was my whole life.
And my mom told me that she was actually meant to get me checked and didn't.
So that made a lot of sense for me as well. when
(50:58):
I look back I was very imaginative as a
child like I would I had maladaptive daydreaming
I used to do that quite a lot I would imagine myself in
all of these situations that I wasn't really in that I was other people
and that's kind of part of being
trans as well you're embodying being something else
and the way social media has
(51:19):
such an impression right now it's making these children very vulnerable
especially when everyone is being told things
are special for this you know i've seen
cases of teachers bragging on
tiktok about how they cut a student
in front of the class and celebrate them because
they have pronouns and then what's the whole rest of the class going to do they're
(51:41):
going to join in because they want that attention as well and so autistic children
are very very vulnerable and that's why we're seeing it worse right now i mean
if you look at a lot of these from the other side of the argument the ones who
are pro-puberty blogs etc When you check their bios on social media,
most of them have autism written in their bios, along with many other things.
So they are extremely impressionable. And being neurodivergent as well also
(52:06):
has a big impact with transgenderism.
Yeah, I can definitely see that.
You know, it's interesting. In society, we're trying to figure out what are
the causes of autism, you know, and people are pointing to all kinds of things.
We're looking at environmental issues, pharmaceutical side effects.
We're looking at all kinds of things.
(52:27):
And then we have the autism and then we have, you know, some of these trajectories
or decisions or propensities that are, are found more so in that spectrum.
So I feel like there's probably studies done that correlate that,
but I don't know what they are.
I'd be interested to know how far back this goes, how everything is connected.
(52:50):
But the main thing is you can't do much about your autism unless you have some
cure sitting aside, but you can do something about your paradigm,
about your thought processes, And what you decide to enact or actualize.
So in our last few minutes here, I'm wondering what kind of advice would you
(53:13):
give in terms of like, hey, you know, get therapy or speak to this kind of specialist
or whatever, or philosophy?
Would you recommend that somebody who's really struggling with their gender
identity should maybe spend a good deal of time with that will,
you know, offer some clarity?
I believe therapy is important. The only thing I would say is right now,
(53:37):
a lot of these therapists are paid to have an affirming approach.
So if you are somebody who wants therapy, research the therapist first to make
sure you're going to be given a non-biased perspective.
Pamela Garfield is fantastic.
About what she does. There's no bias with her. She tells it how it is.
She actually released a book recently.
(53:58):
Gender Trap. The Gender Trap, which she's actually gonna send us a copy.
So we're gonna review that as soon as possible.
She has courses on her website that are really helpful for parents who have
children who are struggling with this.
I would also recommend as well, like for the kids, talk to your number one confidant,
and that is your parents.
(54:18):
Your parents loved you first. Obviously, there are cases where some people can't
confide in their parents.
But for those who can, the parent is your best friend, and they want what's best for you.
Listen to them. And surround yourselves with people who aren't wrapped in this
ideology and aren't going to use it against you.
Have friends who are truly your friend and
(54:38):
care about your well-being because a lot of these
youth are feeling like they can't confide in
people so they're getting caught in this trap by going on tiktok
coming across these influencers who are affirming the most insane things for
example that pronoun princess gal we says you can identify as a blanket avoid
those kind of people they are not going to be good for you in the long run and
(55:01):
also like there are loads of us speaking out about it Now more people start speaking out every day.
If you see someone like myself on social media who has been through it and is
speaking out on these things, reach out. We're here to help you.
That's what I'm here for. I'm doing this work to help you. I don't do it for
fun. There's nothing fun about this. It's very stressful.
I've had some amazing memories doing it, but it is hard work,
(55:24):
but I'm doing it to help people.
So if you need help, I'm there. I love that.
Wow. Well, one thing I just want to add into what you said, just to clarify,
you mentioned Pamela Garfield and her book. You mentioned Gender Trap.
Now, Gender Trap is a new book Gays Against Groomers is working out right now with...
(55:44):
Carla Curtis, who has penned that book.
I don't know if I did. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. No, Pamela Garfield's book
is a practical response to gender distress.
I just recognize that because, you know, I just talked to her a few weeks ago.
And so I was like, okay, wait, that sounded very similar. I got those.
(56:04):
It's really been on my mind because we're about to release that.
And we're going to be talking about that quite a bit in the future coming up.
But no, look up Pamela Garfield and her book. What was that called again, Robert?
A practical response to gender distress, tips and tools for families.
Okay. Okay.
So, okay, great. Well, what else would you guys like to share about what's upcoming
(56:28):
for the film and what you hope it's going to accomplish and the help that you need from people?
Well, like I said, we're getting some amazing support already,
but we're just getting started.
This is not a Hollywood production. This is going to be filmed by viewers like you.
And if you are willing to
donate and add your full name we you are going to
be credited as as someone who helped us get this
(56:50):
made you're going to see your name in the credits so we're just
looking to get as much support as we can and like i said the more we get the
the better the film can be and then we can make sure that everybody involved
has paid the time they're worth and steve can work his magic and we're just
so thankful for that and can't wait to see it all all come together and where it's going to take us.
(57:11):
Yeah. Well, again, if you haven't seen the trailer, go to leaving Amy.com.
That's leaving Amy.com. I'm so excited about this film. The trailer is amazing.
Thank you guys so much for joining the dark side of the rainbow.
Thank you, Robert. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. And I expect we'll have
(57:32):
you all back when the movie premieres or maybe sooner, just for whatever.
Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you.
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