November 15, 2025 • 32 mins
Good news! Just in time for the sequel, it's time to talk all things Ozmopolitan and green! Join Nicole, Killian, and Drew as they discuss the rise of Wicked, from the popular book to the award-winning musical and into the star-studded film, as they look to discover who really mourns the wicked.
Correction: In the episode, Killian mentions Wicked: Part 1 having a PG-13 rating. The film is rated PG.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
- [Nicole] Hey there.
Welcome to the DistractedLibrarians podcast.
We are your friendly neighborhoodbookworms with a penchant
for all things pop culture.
- [Drew] Picture thisas our digital campfire,
where we dive into our latest obsessions,
analyze our favorite distractions,
and rediscover the joy of reading.
- [Killian] Whether you're amedia enthusiast, a book lover,
(00:21):
or just need a break from the daily grind,
you've come to the right spot.
- [Amanda] So, kick back, relax,
and get delightfully distracted with us.
- [Nicole] Hey, everybody.
On this episode of Distracted Librarians,
we are going to be talking about "Wicked".
- [Killian] So, just aheads up as we go into this,
(00:41):
we are gonna be talking about the novel,
"Wicked, the Life and Times
"of The Wicked Witch of the West",
as well as the stagemusical and the first film.
We're also gonna speculateabout the second film,
which is coming out shortly,
as of the air date of this episode.
There will be spoilers.
They simply cannot be avoided.
(01:02):
So if you want to avoid those,
maybe wait on this episode.
- [Drew] Bookmark this,listen to it next week
after you go to theThursday night premiere
of "Wicked (01:11):
For Good", as you should.
- [Nicole] But if you're still here,- [Drew] Yes,
- [Nicole] I'm Nicole.
- [Killian] I'm Killian.- [Drew] And I'm Drew.
- [Nicole] All right.
We have been wanting totalk about this topic
for kind of a while,
and it's mostly my faultthat it's taken this long.
(all laughing)
I will just say that upfront
because I just saw the film
(01:33):
and I am woefully behind.
I'm so sorry, everybody.
So now we feel like we can actually
- [Drew] Yeah.- [Nicole] Discuss appropriately.
All right, so clearly youguys have read the book.
- [Drew] I read the book, the first book.
So it's a quartet all said and done.
(01:53):
The first book is the only one
that really feeds into"Wicked" the stage show/movie,
but I have only read thefirst book of the quartet.
- [Nicole] Okay, okay.
- [Killian] I have alsoonly read the first one.
I read it in its entiretyback in high school,
which was a number of years ago.
And then I have also seen themusical on stage several times
(02:18):
and watched the film so many times.
- [Nicole] Okay, I read the book.
I have read three of the books.
- [Drew] Okay.
- [Nicole] I believe.
But granted, this wasa very long time ago.
The first book came out in 1995.
- [Killian] '95.
- [Nicole] I think I readit probably around 2000.
(02:39):
So that's over 20 years ago.
And my memory is a little sketch,
but I have, like, I have looked online
and I have refilled mybrain with information
about all of these wonderful books.
- [Drew] It is impressivethat you found the book
before the musical happened.
I don't think it was...- [Nicole] Yes.
- [Drew] That well knownwhen it first came out.
(02:59):
- [Nicole] It was not, butI worked in a bookstore.
- [Drew] Fair enough.- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Killian] That'll do it.
- [Nicole] And I honestly,
I really enjoyed the Oz books.
Like, and I'm talkingabout the kids series
where there's like 14 of them.
I kind of just really love thelore of the whole Oz thing.
And so when I saw the book, I was like,
(03:20):
I'm gonna have to check this out.
- [Killian] That's theother thing I wanted
to kind of check in with first.
Like, I'm assuming we've all seen
the classic "Wizard of Oz" movie.
- [Drew & Nicole] Yes.
- [Killian] I know I've readjust "The Wizard of Oz",
"The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" book.
I haven't read the rest of that series,
but I've read the book a couple times,
although it's been probably about as long
(03:43):
since I read "Wicked".
- [Nicole] Okay. Yeah
- [Killian] Have you readthe book at all, Drew?
- [Drew] Nope.- [Nicole] Oh, okay.
- [Drew] Have not read the book.
This is the first time hearing
that it's an extended series.
- [Nicole] Oh, yeah.- [Killian] Oh, okay.
- [Nicole] Yeah, there'sa ton of 'em, yeah.
And I loved them when I was a kid.
I thought that it wassuper cool to just like,
dive in a little bit deeperabout this sort of world
(04:03):
and all the different characters
and the types of people and stuff.
Very, very cool series.
I don't know how itholds up in modern times.
That might be kind offun to read to my kids.
- [Killian] Yeah, I gotta go back and I,
since starting to talk aboutthis and all of "Wicked"
becoming more well known,I've wanted to go back
and actually read that whole series
(04:25):
just to have that frame of reference,
just because it's interestingwith the world in "Wicked".
So much of it is based offof the "Wizard of Oz" movie.
- [Nicole] Mm.
- [Killian] But there arethings that refer back
to things from the book series.
Ozma is from the book series,
and not something that's really referenced
(04:46):
in the movie at all.
- [Nicole] Sure.- [Killian] So...
- [Nicole] So, and just to be clear,
I have not seen the musical,
but I have read the book "Wicked"
and saw the movie recently.- [Drew] Gotcha.
- [Nicole] So musicals are alittle outside of my interest,
but I'm interested to hear more about it.
Yeah.
(05:08):
Cool.
So what was our first experiencewith the "Wicked" story?
- [Drew] I was exposed to it
before knowing the show existed.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Drew] Because some ofmy high school friends,
and also my choir director,discovered the show first.
(05:28):
- [Nicole] Hmm, okay.
- [Drew] So, my junioryear of high school,
"Defying Gravity" waschosen as the senior song
that the choir performedat Graduation Ceremony.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Drew] And we had, youknow, a choral workup of it,
but the first time that thedirector introduced it to us,
(05:49):
he played the Broadway soundtrack version.
- [Nicole] Mm.- [Drew] And
all of my friends around me
were already singing every word,
including the spoken parts.
- [Nicole] Oh my goodness.
- [Drew] And I had no frame of reference
for what they were doing.
And I was like, oh, if Idon't catch up, I will die.
(all laughing)
'Cause that's what high school's like.
(06:10):
- [Nicole] Exactly, oh my gosh.
- [Drew] So I threw myself into it
and listened to nothingelse for three months
and called myself obsessed.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Killian] I don't knowwhen in high school,
I started hearing bits and pieces.
"Defying Gravity" was thefirst thing I heard from it.
And I had no frame ofreference for what it was from.
I just heard someonesing "Defying Gravity".
(06:32):
Eventually I figured out thatit was from this musical.
I ended up with the CD for this musical,
and I found out thatit was based on a book,
and that is when I read the book.
- [Nicole] Okay.- [Killian] So I read the book
before I ever saw the musical on stage,
but I did hear the music first.
Also, we, it wasn't thesong for our graduation,
(06:55):
but "For Good" was part of our like,
senior slideshow at our like,senior talent show type night.
The day before Graduation.
- [Drew] "For Good" was?
- [Killian] So that was a thing.
- [Drew] "For Good" was mygraduation song the year later.
And my friend and I had the two duets.
- [Killian] Okay.- [Nicole] Oh, cool.
- [Drew] Yeah.- [Nicole] Yeah, nice.
- [Drew] Back when I was a choir boy.
(07:16):
(all laughing)
- [Nicole] I was a choir girl too.
- [Drew] Yes.- [Nicole] All right.
Well, there are somevery clear differences
between the different versions.
- [Killian] Yes.
The book is so much darker.
If you are watching the movie
and going, oh, this is a little much...
(07:36):
- [Nicole] The book is even more.
- [Killian] The book is a lot.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
I mean, we had an issue where,
you know, families weregoing to see the movie
and then rushing to the library,
because they wanted theirkids to read the book.
And we were, you know,in that odd predicament
where we're like, well, it's not really
(07:57):
gonna be great for your13-year-old, or 12-year-old.
- [Killian] Yeah, we talkedabout it on the covers episode.
- [Drew] Yeah, with thehatred of movie tie-in covers.
- [Killian] The movie tie-in cover,
and how kids would seeAriana Grande on the cover
and want to read it.
And it's like, nope, nope, no, nope.
- [Nicole] Yeah.- [Killian] Probably not a good idea.
- [Nicole] Yeah.- [Killian] I mean, like,
I read it in high school.
I'm not gonna say people can't.
(08:17):
- [Nicole] Right, exactly, yes.
- [Killian] Proceed with caution.
Know what you're getting into.
'Cause the content in that is,
it was a lot for me in high school
and going back, and I haven't read it
in its entirety since then.
I have started it twice,
and I'm sitting there going,this book is so dense.
(08:39):
There's like, there's just so much,
it's wonderful language,like use of languages.
- [Nicole] Oh, yeah.
Gregory McGuire is an amazing author.
- [Killian] But there's just a lot there.
And I have made it partway through twice.
And going back to reread it.
Because I do not have anattention span a lot of the time
(09:01):
when it comes to reading right now.
And, but as what I, work...
My brain moves faster than my mouth.
(all laughing)
When I start getting in on "Wicked".
It's simply how it goes.
So sorry to everyone as Ihave to work through that.
(09:23):
But yeah, it's so interesting
to parse that and figureout all of the things
that are happening
and all of the things that are being said,
because it's not a lot of words
for the sake of being a lot of words.
It's a lot of wordsthat are saying so much.
And quite frankly, I love the musical.
(09:45):
I love the movie.
You lose so much of that
as it gets adapted into those forms.
- [Drew] Oh, yeah.
- [Nicole] Oh, okay.
- [Drew] Because the musical especially
plays so much more of a focus on Elphaba
and Glinda's budding friendship
and the journey thatthey take through Shiz
and even, you know, acttwo has been torn apart
(10:06):
for timeline issues,
because they tried to adapt pieces of it
because it was just too much
to fit into like an 80 minute segment.
- [Killian] Yeah, with the musical,
it really feels like act twois not a long period of time,
but if you compare it tothe story of the book,
you realize that that is likeyears and years and years.
(10:26):
Now, is it that way in the stage musical?
That's its whole own debate.
- [Drew] That'll be for themovie to decide, frankly.
- [Killian] Right, I'mreally curious to see
what they'll do with that.
But in the book, it is awildly long amount of time
that is covered, and they'rejust pulling pieces of it
- [Nicole] Okay.- [Killian] Out of there.
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Killian] So, and it's, you know,
(10:48):
the musical is a musical.
There's certain things about musicals
that you typically are gonna see
that the book storywasn't gonna line up with.
So those changes were made because it was,
it is an, it's not an older musical,
but it is, it's not a very current,
(11:09):
like right now musical.
- [Drew] It's over 20 years old.- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Killian] It's, yeah.
And it's not playing with those standards
the way that more modern musicals do.
They weren't gonna step out quite as far,
but expanding that into the movie
that is now longer than the musical
has given them the opportunity
to put some of that back into it
(11:30):
and to be more--
- [Nicole] Detailed.- [Killian] Explicit about some
of the things that are being said.
- [Nicole] Definitely.
- [Drew] So what are some ofthe more important themes,
I guess, in the overall "Wicked" story?
Yes, we are both looking at you.
- [Killian] Yeah.
I was just about to belike, well, you can't see,
(11:54):
oh boy, repeat the question.
I got very aware of eyes.
- [Nicole] As everybody stares.
- [Nicole] Some of the strongest themes
that are presented in the "Wicked" story.
- [Killian] Right, right.
I think one of the biggestones is just Good and Evil.
You get that right from the beginning.
(12:16):
The song "No One Mourns The Wicked"
is about what is good and what is evil.
And you can take that song at face value
and it still has a message.
But if you look at that song in context
with everything going on,
and especially if you knowhow things end in the story,
that song is not aboutElphaba being wicked.
(12:40):
That song is not about the people
perceiving Elphaba as wicked.
That song is about Glindaknowing she is wicked.
And I, Drew was there with me
when I saw this movie for the first time.
How long was it?
Maybe 30 seconds intothe song I'm sobbing.
- [Drew] Oh, yeah.
(13:01):
- I'm sitting next tohim just full on sobbing.
- [Drew] I held it a little more together
and lasted like 12 minutes.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] I can't be normal about this.
We've talked about that.
Because that, the way theydid that song in the movie
is so beautifully done.
And I was not expecting it.
I was not expecting itto be that well done,
(13:23):
because you get a little ofthat in the stage musical.
But with movies, you can get up close,
you can get the little facial expressions,
you can get the details.
And man, I fell apart.
And you see that themethroughout the whole thing.
Glinda's trying to be good,
but what does that actually mean?
(13:44):
Elphaba really points itout to her in the movie of,
you know, oh yes, you'retelling someone you never met,
that you can fix somethingwith skills you don't have.
- [Nicole] Yeah.- [Killian] Interesting.
- [Nicole] And it may noteven need to be fixed.
- [Killian] Yeah.
- [Nicole] That's theother thing too, you know?
- [Drew] What strikes me about
the whole good and evilconversation in "Wicked"
(14:04):
is how much they leaninto the, like, propaganda
of good and evil, and how the whole,
like history is written bythe victor aspect of it.
In act two, there's asong called "Wonderful"
with lyrics that Ishould have printed out,
but I think I know them.
In the bridge of it is"A man's called a traitor
(14:26):
or liberator,
A rich man's a thief or philanthropist.
Is one a crusader or ruthless invader?
It's all in which labelis able to persist."
And it really digs intothe fact that everything
is going to be looked at after the fact
and with the eyes of thesurvivors, the victors.
(14:48):
- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Drew] Of how everythingshould be perceived.
And that's terrifying.
- [Nicole] There's the bias that's there
of what the story becomes.
- [Drew] Yep.
- [Nicole] Instead ofwhat the story really was.
- [Killian] Well, andyou see it actively start
at the end of the first movie,
the end of the first act,
(15:09):
where Elphaba has been tricked
into making the flying monkeys,
and she realizes it, she takes off,
and immediately thenarrative is she's wicked.
She did this to these creatures.
- [Nicole] Get her.
- [Killian] And she is anenemy of everyone, get her.
And the way it turnsfrom, I have no power,
(15:33):
so I need you to, oh, youwon't be what I need you to be.
- [Nicole] Now you're in deep trouble.
- [Killian] So I'm gonnaturn the story right now.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Killian] Was...- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Killian] A lot.
It was very well done.
It was, that's one of thethings that got me this weekend
when I was watching the movie,
and then started screamingboth in a message to Drew
(15:57):
and out loud in my apartment to my cats.
I started yelling.
It was, every time I watch this movie,
something else hits a little different.
And yeah.
But it's also,
that storyline is in the books like that,
(16:18):
that is all part ofthe story of the books.
But there is so many other things
that get left out now that we've changed
the narrative with someof these characters
for the playing the musical and the movie.
I think Nessa is a reallyfascinating character.
- [Nicole] Yeah, I think so too.
- [Killian] In the books she is born with,
(16:40):
she's the second child of three,
instead of the second child of two,
she was born without arms.
So she can't walk becauseshe has difficulty balancing,
and she gets the shoes from her father
to help her balance.
- [Drew] Okay.
- [Killian] If I'm recalling correctly
that they are in enchantedin some way, shape, or form
(17:01):
to make it easier forher to walk that way.
But she is, she's not awheelchair user in the book
the way she is in themusical and the movie.
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Killian] Now, some ofthat change is going to be
a what can we easily put on stage?
- [Drew] Yes.
- [Nicole] So is she awheelchair user in the musical?
(17:23):
- [Drew] Yes.- [Nicole] Oh, okay.
So that's somethingthat had already changed
from the book to the show performance.
- [Killian] Yeah, yeah.
- [Nicole] Okay, gotcha.
- [Killian] And, butit's really interesting
because she does not go to Shiz
at the same time as Elphaba in the book.
Elphaba is actually there for two years
as Glinda's roommate going through
(17:45):
a lot of things happening.
And then Nessa turns up.- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] And is justkind of brought into things.
But Nessa also isn't the like favorite,
she is the favorite child,
but she's not in the same way,
(18:05):
because she didn't grow upcompletely without her mother.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] The way she doesin the movie and the musical.
She's coming in as the second sister
who still, you know, she's described
as tragically beautiful a lot of the time.
Still very much the vibe.
But she is coming into amore established relationship
(18:27):
between Glinda and Elphaba
and Boq and Fiyero all being,
like all knowing eachother in here differently,
again, differently than the books
or than the movie and the musical.
But she gains the powerthat she ends up gaining
kind of through the same vein,
(18:49):
but not as a, this is handed to you
because you are the favorite child.
She becomes what she becomes
because Elphaba doesn't.
She becomes the wicked witch of the East
because Elphaba runs away
and doesn't take over thatleadership role in Munchkinland.
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Killian] Which--
- [Nicole] And just to be clear,
(19:09):
for those of you that are listening,
Elphaba was supposed tobe the person in charge
of Munchkinland, but decides not to,
and Nessa takes over instead.
- [Killian] It's a familytitle that I believe
is through her maternal grandfather
when we start the book.
(19:31):
And because Elphabadoes run off to do her,
to fight for animal rightsand things like that,
very similar to how she takes off
because of how the Wizard,
she discovering the Wizard iswho is persecuting the animals
(19:51):
because she is simply not there.
It passes to the eldest child,
which now is Nessa.
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Killian] So it's, it'salso just interesting to me
that that is through her mother's side.
Whereas in the movie and the musical--
- [Nicole] It's the father's side?
- [Killian] Squished into her dad was
the governor of Munchkinland, so she becomes it.
- [Nicole] Right. Right, right.
(20:12):
- [Killian] Those details that we lose
as we go from one medium to the other.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Drew] But even discounting book Nessa
and just focusing on movie andmusical, she is fascinating.
- [Killian] She is.
- [Drew] Because she is sort of the sister
that is less othered by the world.
- [Nicole] Even though shestill has a disability,
(20:33):
she's still treated betterthan Elphaba is treated.
- [Drew] And she's this veryinteresting middle layer of it
where instead of being angry with society
for putting any sortof other on her at all,
she's mad at Elphaba fordragging her further down,
or the perception being
(20:53):
that she's dragging her further down.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Drew] It's this weird power dynamic of,
you know, proximity toappropriateness, I guess,
or proximity to quote normal.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Drew] That Nessa isn'ttaking out her frustration
on the people who aremaking her feel abnormal.
(21:14):
She's taking it out on the people
who make her feel worse.
- [Nicole] Okay, gotcha.
Yeah, because she'sportray, she's portrayed
as such a sweet characterin the movie, it seems.
And that there, there isdefinitely frustration
with her sister in terms oflike, I don't need your help.
You know, like, why are you here?
(21:35):
Could you just go home?
Like all of this kind of stuff.
She wants to be on her own
and live her own experience.
It'll be interesting to see what they do
with the second movie interms of flipping that.
So she does become the wicked witch
that she's headed to being.
- [Drew] She's also acharacter in the second movie
that I'm fascinated to see,
(21:56):
like what they're going to do with,
because in the stage show,
when she gets the shoes in the second act,
or when Elphaba enchantsthe shoes in the second act,
she's able to walk with the shoes.
In the movie the actress who plays her
is a wheelchair user in her life.
- [Nicole] Yeah, okay, oh yeah.
- [Killian] It actually broughtup a lot of conversation
(22:17):
about the--
- [Drew] The inherent ableism in it.
- [Killian] Yeah, the inherent ableism
of you need to be fixed.
- [Nicole] Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
- [Killian] And they've talked about
there's going to be a changemade to that storyline.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] And like, theyhaven't talked about what it is,
and so I'm very interested to see...
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] What they've done now,
having that perspective in a way
that just probably they didn't have...
- [Drew] Yeah.
(22:37):
- [Killian] In the time whenthe musical was created.
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Killian] 'Cause the attitudes have--
- [Nicole] Changed,
- [Killian] --expanded.
- [Nicole] Yes, definitely.
- [Drew] Well, there's alsothe storyline in the first act,
especially of thesilencing of voices with,
and as it pertains to the animals
(22:57):
and, you know, the animalsbeing represented of the lower,
I don't wanna say lowerelements of society,
but what society itself, itsown hierarchical standards
deems the lower elements.
- [Killian] The animal story.
Go ahead, because I will go off.
- [Drew] Yes.
- [Nicole] All because theWizard says we need an enemy.
(23:21):
We need something to hate
in order for us to be successful.
And, you know, for himto have all the power.
- [Drew] Yeah.
- [Nicole] Ultimately, yeah.
- [Killian] So, the plight of the animals
is very interesting to me
because of what it is in the books
versus the musical and movie.
In the book it is, there's adistinction between animals
(23:45):
with a lowercase a,
which are animals as we know them.
Not, you know, not
- [Nicole] non speaking,
- [Killian] not speaking, not,
you know, super aware oflike the political climate
and you know, notteaching at a university,
that sort of thing.
And then animals with a capital A,
who are those animals that have speech
and are part of society.
(24:08):
Dr. Dillamond in the bookis not a history professor,
he's a biology professor,if I recall correctly.
- [Nicole] Yes.
- [Killian] He's in sciences
and he is actually researching
what the biologicaldifference between animals
with a lowercase A and animalswith an uppercase A is.
Because there's so manyattacks on animal rights
(24:31):
that he's trying to prove that there's,
whether or not there'sthat biological difference.
Because the argument isthat there isn't one.
- [Nicole] And they're all the same.
- [Killian] They're all the same, yeah.
And so animals shouldbe seen and not heard.
And he does not simply get taken away
(24:53):
for his research in the books.
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Killian] He is found in his lab,
depending on who is telling the story,
either the victim of a tragic accident
where he fell on glass and cut himself
or murdered by a tik-tok creature,
(25:14):
little robotic thingthat Madam Morrible has
that is nowhere present inthe musical or the movie.
But depending on who tells the story
is where you get the answerto what happened to him.
And that is one of the catalysts
(25:35):
for Elphaba really going down this path
that she ends up going down
because that was her mentor,
that was someone who understood her.
She worked in his lab
like over the summer type of thing.
And...
It feels higher stakesin the book version.
(25:59):
- [Nicole] Oh yeah absolutely.
- [Killian] Than it, than it does.
- [Nicole] Instead of, yougot an invitation to come
to the Emerald City that is very different
than somebody I care aboutvery much was murdered
and I need to go and get this fixed.
- [Killian] Yeah, and you know.
- [Drew] just the passageof time, it's, you know,
one semester versus years and years
of being ingrained in this research
(26:19):
and seeing the fight that he gets on it
to the ultimate end of that fight.
And she's gonna be so much more invested
and so much more hurt.
- [Nicole] Right.- [Drew] In the book.
- [Nicole] Of course.
- [Killian] The academiacommentary just in the Shiz
portion of the books is a time.
It's very interesting.
(26:41):
'Cause you also have, yes,Glinda and Elphaba are,
the Shiz is dividedinto different colleges.
So Boq is in a differentlike portion of it
because it's dividedup by girls are in one
and boys are at the other
and that sort of thing.
But there's, they all have access
(27:04):
to different things as different parts
of those schools.
And they all can do differentthings based on who they are,
where they come from, whatthey're studying, et cetera.
Just the privilege thatcomes with having access
to certain information thatonly Boq and his friends can get
because they're the only oneswith access to that library
(27:25):
and things like that
is not at all in the movie or the musical,
but very, very interesting in the book.
- [Drew] So encompassing what we know
about the whole of "Wicked", book, movie,
musical, et cetera,
what are we hoping tosee in the second movie
in terms of the, you know,expansion of the world?
(27:50):
Because I know I'm really interested
in seeing the expansion of Elphaba,
but predominantly Glindaas their own characters.
You know, Glinda in act two
doesn't have that much of a story.
She is, you know, a part of the machine
(28:10):
that's against Elphaba.
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Drew] And has her role in that,
that is very relevant,especially coming to the end
with "For Good" and all of that.
But, you know, she getsher own song in the movie,
in the second movie, rather.
- [Killian] "The Girl in the Bubble".
- [Drew] "The Girl in the Bubble".
And separate from that,they just have, you know,
(28:33):
two and a half, three hours,whatever they're allocating
to the story instead of the70 or 80 minutes of act two.
So I really want to see what, you know,
her expanded role in the world is.
- [Killian] I'm really curiousbecause I've seen rumors
that it wasn't confirmedanywhere that I saw it.
So, you know, by the time this airs,
who knows what we'll know.
(28:55):
There were rumors that it's only
about two hours and 18 minutes.
- [Drew] Oh, okay.
- [Killian] So it's shorterthan the first movie.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] Which second acts usually are
shorter than first acts in things anyway,
but there's just so much to cover.
But we've got those new songs.
It has a PG rating insteadof the PG-13 rating.
- [Drew & Nicole] Oh.
- [Killian] About the first movie.
(29:16):
- [Nicole] Well, that's wild.
- [Killian] I checked.
- [Nicole] Maybe 'cause ofthe flying monkeys scene
is already done and over with.
- [Drew] My goodness.
- [Killian] So I am curious,
there is a scene from the stage musical
that I would've thought
that having something evenremotely close to that
would've put it into PG-13 territory.
So they're going to...
(29:36):
- [Drew] Is that Fiyero being captured or?
- [Killian] Oh, I hadn'tthought about that.
"As long as your Mine" can get a little...
- [Drew] Okay, that's fair.
- [Killian] A little much.
And usually with movies,
you see them lean intothat more than the musical.
So with how that, howI've seen that on stage,
I expected that to be a little more.
(29:59):
Doesn't seem like it's going to be.
Love that song.
The thing that I'm looking forward to most
is simply "No Good Deed"
because I am obsessed with that song.
That is my song.- [Drew] Yeah.
- [Killian] I scream singthat in my car a lot.
I'm sorry if you've ever come across me
and heard me doing that because yikes.
(Drew laughing)
But that's what I'm looking forward to,
(30:19):
and I'm very curious tosee what they do with that.
I am also curious if we will get more
explanation of the ending
than we do in the musical.
The musical leaves you a lot of room
to just kind of guess at things
(30:41):
and things like that.
And I could see a world in which
there is a change made for the movie
to make Glinda more aware of that
than she is on the stage.
- [Drew] I'm also ininterested to see how much
of "Wizard of Oz" gets sucked into it.
- [Nicole] Yeah, I agree with that.
Definitely.
(31:01):
- [Killian] Because therewere so many rumors about,
oh, who's playing Dorothy?
Who's playing Dorothy?
And she's like feet in the musical.
- [Drew] Yeah, in the musical,
the most you get is like,
you hear them off stage a little, I think.
- [Killian] And there'slike some shadow imagery
in the set sometimes and,yeah, you don't get much.
- [Nicole] Okay.- [Killian] So...
(31:23):
- [Nicole] Yeah.
Well I think it's, I'm looking forward
to seeing all of it, honestly.
- [Killian] Yeah.- [Nicole] Yeah.
I think that's gonna be really cool to see
how they continue the story, definitely.
- [Killian] I saw the firstmovie in theaters twice,
and I will at least do thatwith this one, I'm sure.
- [Drew] Oh yeah.
- [Nicole] Okay, wellthanks for listening.
(31:44):
And if you have anythingto add to the conversation,
please email us and let us know.
And we will see you next time.
- [Nicole] Thank you forjoining us for this episode
of Distracted Librarians.
- [Drew] Many thanks to "BCTV"
for their support in recording,
editing and releasing this podcast.
And to the friends of the library
for sponsoring closedcaptioning on every episode.
(32:06):
- [Killian] If you have anyquestions or suggestions,
feel free to reach out tous at distracted@btpl.org.
- [Amanda] Until then,keep those pages turning
and those screens lighting up.
We'll catch you in the next episode.
- [Emily] The views and opinions expressed
in the Distracted Librarians podcast
do not necessarily reflectthose of Bloomfield Township,
(32:28):
Bloomfield Township Public Library,
Bloomfield Community Television,
the Birmingham Area Cable Board,
or its producers or production staff.
- [Nicole] Hey there.
Welcome to the DistractedLibrarians podcast.
We are your friendly neighborhoodbookworms with a penchant
for all things pop culture.
- [Drew] Picture thisas our digital campfire,
where we dive into our latest obsessions,
analyze our favorite distractions,
and rediscover the joy of reading.
- [Killian] Whether you're amedia enthusiast, a book lover,
(00:21):
or just need a break from the daily grind,
you've come to the right spot.
- [Amanda] So, kick back, relax,
and get delightfully distracted with us.
- [Nicole] Hey, everybody.
On this episode of Distracted Librarians,
we are going to be talking about "Wicked".
- [Killian] So, just aheads up as we go into this,
(00:41):
we are gonna be talking about the novel,
"Wicked, the Life and Times
"of The Wicked Witch of the West",
as well as the stagemusical and the first film.
We're also gonna speculateabout the second film,
which is coming out shortly,
as of the air date of this episode.
There will be spoilers.
They simply cannot be avoided.
(01:02):
So if you want to avoid those,
maybe wait on this episode.
- [Drew] Bookmark this,listen to it next week
after you go to theThursday night premiere
of "Wicked (01:11):
For Good", as you should.
- [Nicole] But if you're still here,- [Drew] Yes,
- [Nicole] I'm Nicole.
- [Killian] I'm Killian.- [Drew] And I'm Drew.
- [Nicole] All right.
We have been wanting totalk about this topic
for kind of a while,
and it's mostly my faultthat it's taken this long.
(all laughing)
I will just say that upfront
because I just saw the film
(01:33):
and I am woefully behind.
I'm so sorry, everybody.
So now we feel like we can actually
- [Drew] Yeah.- [Nicole] Discuss appropriately.
All right, so clearly youguys have read the book.
- [Drew] I read the book, the first book.
So it's a quartet all said and done.
(01:53):
The first book is the only one
that really feeds into"Wicked" the stage show/movie,
but I have only read thefirst book of the quartet.
- [Nicole] Okay, okay.
- [Killian] I have alsoonly read the first one.
I read it in its entiretyback in high school,
which was a number of years ago.
And then I have also seen themusical on stage several times
(02:18):
and watched the film so many times.
- [Nicole] Okay, I read the book.
I have read three of the books.
- [Drew] Okay.
- [Nicole] I believe.
But granted, this wasa very long time ago.
The first book came out in 1995.
- [Killian] '95.
- [Nicole] I think I readit probably around 2000.
(02:39):
So that's over 20 years ago.
And my memory is a little sketch,
but I have, like, I have looked online
and I have refilled mybrain with information
about all of these wonderful books.
- [Drew] It is impressivethat you found the book
before the musical happened.
I don't think it was...- [Nicole] Yes.
- [Drew] That well knownwhen it first came out.
(02:59):
- [Nicole] It was not, butI worked in a bookstore.
- [Drew] Fair enough.- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Killian] That'll do it.
- [Nicole] And I honestly,
I really enjoyed the Oz books.
Like, and I'm talkingabout the kids series
where there's like 14 of them.
I kind of just really love thelore of the whole Oz thing.
And so when I saw the book, I was like,
(03:20):
I'm gonna have to check this out.
- [Killian] That's theother thing I wanted
to kind of check in with first.
Like, I'm assuming we've all seen
the classic "Wizard of Oz" movie.
- [Drew & Nicole] Yes.
- [Killian] I know I've readjust "The Wizard of Oz",
"The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" book.
I haven't read the rest of that series,
but I've read the book a couple times,
although it's been probably about as long
(03:43):
since I read "Wicked".
- [Nicole] Okay. Yeah
- [Killian] Have you readthe book at all, Drew?
- [Drew] Nope.- [Nicole] Oh, okay.
- [Drew] Have not read the book.
This is the first time hearing
that it's an extended series.
- [Nicole] Oh, yeah.- [Killian] Oh, okay.
- [Nicole] Yeah, there'sa ton of 'em, yeah.
And I loved them when I was a kid.
I thought that it wassuper cool to just like,
dive in a little bit deeperabout this sort of world
(04:03):
and all the different characters
and the types of people and stuff.
Very, very cool series.
I don't know how itholds up in modern times.
That might be kind offun to read to my kids.
- [Killian] Yeah, I gotta go back and I,
since starting to talk aboutthis and all of "Wicked"
becoming more well known,I've wanted to go back
and actually read that whole series
(04:25):
just to have that frame of reference,
just because it's interestingwith the world in "Wicked".
So much of it is based offof the "Wizard of Oz" movie.
- [Nicole] Mm.
- [Killian] But there arethings that refer back
to things from the book series.
Ozma is from the book series,
and not something that's really referenced
(04:46):
in the movie at all.
- [Nicole] Sure.- [Killian] So...
- [Nicole] So, and just to be clear,
I have not seen the musical,
but I have read the book "Wicked"
and saw the movie recently.- [Drew] Gotcha.
- [Nicole] So musicals are alittle outside of my interest,
but I'm interested to hear more about it.
Yeah.
(05:08):
Cool.
So what was our first experiencewith the "Wicked" story?
- [Drew] I was exposed to it
before knowing the show existed.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Drew] Because some ofmy high school friends,
and also my choir director,discovered the show first.
(05:28):
- [Nicole] Hmm, okay.
- [Drew] So, my junioryear of high school,
"Defying Gravity" waschosen as the senior song
that the choir performedat Graduation Ceremony.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Drew] And we had, youknow, a choral workup of it,
but the first time that thedirector introduced it to us,
(05:49):
he played the Broadway soundtrack version.
- [Nicole] Mm.- [Drew] And
all of my friends around me
were already singing every word,
including the spoken parts.
- [Nicole] Oh my goodness.
- [Drew] And I had no frame of reference
for what they were doing.
And I was like, oh, if Idon't catch up, I will die.
(all laughing)
'Cause that's what high school's like.
(06:10):
- [Nicole] Exactly, oh my gosh.
- [Drew] So I threw myself into it
and listened to nothingelse for three months
and called myself obsessed.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Killian] I don't knowwhen in high school,
I started hearing bits and pieces.
"Defying Gravity" was thefirst thing I heard from it.
And I had no frame ofreference for what it was from.
I just heard someonesing "Defying Gravity".
(06:32):
Eventually I figured out thatit was from this musical.
I ended up with the CD for this musical,
and I found out thatit was based on a book,
and that is when I read the book.
- [Nicole] Okay.- [Killian] So I read the book
before I ever saw the musical on stage,
but I did hear the music first.
Also, we, it wasn't thesong for our graduation,
(06:55):
but "For Good" was part of our like,
senior slideshow at our like,senior talent show type night.
The day before Graduation.
- [Drew] "For Good" was?
- [Killian] So that was a thing.
- [Drew] "For Good" was mygraduation song the year later.
And my friend and I had the two duets.
- [Killian] Okay.- [Nicole] Oh, cool.
- [Drew] Yeah.- [Nicole] Yeah, nice.
- [Drew] Back when I was a choir boy.
(07:16):
(all laughing)
- [Nicole] I was a choir girl too.
- [Drew] Yes.- [Nicole] All right.
Well, there are somevery clear differences
between the different versions.
- [Killian] Yes.
The book is so much darker.
If you are watching the movie
and going, oh, this is a little much...
(07:36):
- [Nicole] The book is even more.
- [Killian] The book is a lot.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
I mean, we had an issue where,
you know, families weregoing to see the movie
and then rushing to the library,
because they wanted theirkids to read the book.
And we were, you know,in that odd predicament
where we're like, well, it's not really
(07:57):
gonna be great for your13-year-old, or 12-year-old.
- [Killian] Yeah, we talkedabout it on the covers episode.
- [Drew] Yeah, with thehatred of movie tie-in covers.
- [Killian] The movie tie-in cover,
and how kids would seeAriana Grande on the cover
and want to read it.
And it's like, nope, nope, no, nope.
- [Nicole] Yeah.- [Killian] Probably not a good idea.
- [Nicole] Yeah.- [Killian] I mean, like,
I read it in high school.
I'm not gonna say people can't.
(08:17):
- [Nicole] Right, exactly, yes.
- [Killian] Proceed with caution.
Know what you're getting into.
'Cause the content in that is,
it was a lot for me in high school
and going back, and I haven't read it
in its entirety since then.
I have started it twice,
and I'm sitting there going,this book is so dense.
(08:39):
There's like, there's just so much,
it's wonderful language,like use of languages.
- [Nicole] Oh, yeah.
Gregory McGuire is an amazing author.
- [Killian] But there's just a lot there.
And I have made it partway through twice.
And going back to reread it.
Because I do not have anattention span a lot of the time
(09:01):
when it comes to reading right now.
And, but as what I, work...
My brain moves faster than my mouth.
(all laughing)
When I start getting in on "Wicked".
It's simply how it goes.
So sorry to everyone as Ihave to work through that.
(09:23):
But yeah, it's so interesting
to parse that and figureout all of the things
that are happening
and all of the things that are being said,
because it's not a lot of words
for the sake of being a lot of words.
It's a lot of wordsthat are saying so much.
And quite frankly, I love the musical.
(09:45):
I love the movie.
You lose so much of that
as it gets adapted into those forms.
- [Drew] Oh, yeah.
- [Nicole] Oh, okay.
- [Drew] Because the musical especially
plays so much more of a focus on Elphaba
and Glinda's budding friendship
and the journey thatthey take through Shiz
and even, you know, acttwo has been torn apart
(10:06):
for timeline issues,
because they tried to adapt pieces of it
because it was just too much
to fit into like an 80 minute segment.
- [Killian] Yeah, with the musical,
it really feels like act twois not a long period of time,
but if you compare it tothe story of the book,
you realize that that is likeyears and years and years.
(10:26):
Now, is it that way in the stage musical?
That's its whole own debate.
- [Drew] That'll be for themovie to decide, frankly.
- [Killian] Right, I'mreally curious to see
what they'll do with that.
But in the book, it is awildly long amount of time
that is covered, and they'rejust pulling pieces of it
- [Nicole] Okay.- [Killian] Out of there.
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Killian] So, and it's, you know,
(10:48):
the musical is a musical.
There's certain things about musicals
that you typically are gonna see
that the book storywasn't gonna line up with.
So those changes were made because it was,
it is an, it's not an older musical,
but it is, it's not a very current,
(11:09):
like right now musical.
- [Drew] It's over 20 years old.- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Killian] It's, yeah.
And it's not playing with those standards
the way that more modern musicals do.
They weren't gonna step out quite as far,
but expanding that into the movie
that is now longer than the musical
has given them the opportunity
to put some of that back into it
(11:30):
and to be more--
- [Nicole] Detailed.- [Killian] Explicit about some
of the things that are being said.
- [Nicole] Definitely.
- [Drew] So what are some ofthe more important themes,
I guess, in the overall "Wicked" story?
Yes, we are both looking at you.
- [Killian] Yeah.
I was just about to belike, well, you can't see,
(11:54):
oh boy, repeat the question.
I got very aware of eyes.
- [Nicole] As everybody stares.
- [Nicole] Some of the strongest themes
that are presented in the "Wicked" story.
- [Killian] Right, right.
I think one of the biggestones is just Good and Evil.
You get that right from the beginning.
(12:16):
The song "No One Mourns The Wicked"
is about what is good and what is evil.
And you can take that song at face value
and it still has a message.
But if you look at that song in context
with everything going on,
and especially if you knowhow things end in the story,
that song is not aboutElphaba being wicked.
(12:40):
That song is not about the people
perceiving Elphaba as wicked.
That song is about Glindaknowing she is wicked.
And I, Drew was there with me
when I saw this movie for the first time.
How long was it?
Maybe 30 seconds intothe song I'm sobbing.
- [Drew] Oh, yeah.
(13:01):
- I'm sitting next tohim just full on sobbing.
- [Drew] I held it a little more together
and lasted like 12 minutes.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] I can't be normal about this.
We've talked about that.
Because that, the way theydid that song in the movie
is so beautifully done.
And I was not expecting it.
I was not expecting itto be that well done,
(13:23):
because you get a little ofthat in the stage musical.
But with movies, you can get up close,
you can get the little facial expressions,
you can get the details.
And man, I fell apart.
And you see that themethroughout the whole thing.
Glinda's trying to be good,
but what does that actually mean?
(13:44):
Elphaba really points itout to her in the movie of,
you know, oh yes, you'retelling someone you never met,
that you can fix somethingwith skills you don't have.
- [Nicole] Yeah.- [Killian] Interesting.
- [Nicole] And it may noteven need to be fixed.
- [Killian] Yeah.
- [Nicole] That's theother thing too, you know?
- [Drew] What strikes me about
the whole good and evilconversation in "Wicked"
(14:04):
is how much they leaninto the, like, propaganda
of good and evil, and how the whole,
like history is written bythe victor aspect of it.
In act two, there's asong called "Wonderful"
with lyrics that Ishould have printed out,
but I think I know them.
In the bridge of it is"A man's called a traitor
(14:26):
or liberator,
A rich man's a thief or philanthropist.
Is one a crusader or ruthless invader?
It's all in which labelis able to persist."
And it really digs intothe fact that everything
is going to be looked at after the fact
and with the eyes of thesurvivors, the victors.
(14:48):
- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Drew] Of how everythingshould be perceived.
And that's terrifying.
- [Nicole] There's the bias that's there
of what the story becomes.
- [Drew] Yep.
- [Nicole] Instead ofwhat the story really was.
- [Killian] Well, andyou see it actively start
at the end of the first movie,
the end of the first act,
(15:09):
where Elphaba has been tricked
into making the flying monkeys,
and she realizes it, she takes off,
and immediately thenarrative is she's wicked.
She did this to these creatures.
- [Nicole] Get her.
- [Killian] And she is anenemy of everyone, get her.
And the way it turnsfrom, I have no power,
(15:33):
so I need you to, oh, youwon't be what I need you to be.
- [Nicole] Now you're in deep trouble.
- [Killian] So I'm gonnaturn the story right now.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Killian] Was...- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Killian] A lot.
It was very well done.
It was, that's one of thethings that got me this weekend
when I was watching the movie,
and then started screamingboth in a message to Drew
(15:57):
and out loud in my apartment to my cats.
I started yelling.
It was, every time I watch this movie,
something else hits a little different.
And yeah.
But it's also,
that storyline is in the books like that,
(16:18):
that is all part ofthe story of the books.
But there is so many other things
that get left out now that we've changed
the narrative with someof these characters
for the playing the musical and the movie.
I think Nessa is a reallyfascinating character.
- [Nicole] Yeah, I think so too.
- [Killian] In the books she is born with,
(16:40):
she's the second child of three,
instead of the second child of two,
she was born without arms.
So she can't walk becauseshe has difficulty balancing,
and she gets the shoes from her father
to help her balance.
- [Drew] Okay.
- [Killian] If I'm recalling correctly
that they are in enchantedin some way, shape, or form
(17:01):
to make it easier forher to walk that way.
But she is, she's not awheelchair user in the book
the way she is in themusical and the movie.
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Killian] Now, some ofthat change is going to be
a what can we easily put on stage?
- [Drew] Yes.
- [Nicole] So is she awheelchair user in the musical?
(17:23):
- [Drew] Yes.- [Nicole] Oh, okay.
So that's somethingthat had already changed
from the book to the show performance.
- [Killian] Yeah, yeah.
- [Nicole] Okay, gotcha.
- [Killian] And, butit's really interesting
because she does not go to Shiz
at the same time as Elphaba in the book.
Elphaba is actually there for two years
as Glinda's roommate going through
(17:45):
a lot of things happening.
And then Nessa turns up.- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] And is justkind of brought into things.
But Nessa also isn't the like favorite,
she is the favorite child,
but she's not in the same way,
(18:05):
because she didn't grow upcompletely without her mother.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] The way she doesin the movie and the musical.
She's coming in as the second sister
who still, you know, she's described
as tragically beautiful a lot of the time.
Still very much the vibe.
But she is coming into amore established relationship
(18:27):
between Glinda and Elphaba
and Boq and Fiyero all being,
like all knowing eachother in here differently,
again, differently than the books
or than the movie and the musical.
But she gains the powerthat she ends up gaining
kind of through the same vein,
(18:49):
but not as a, this is handed to you
because you are the favorite child.
She becomes what she becomes
because Elphaba doesn't.
She becomes the wicked witch of the East
because Elphaba runs away
and doesn't take over thatleadership role in Munchkinland.
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Killian] Which--
- [Nicole] And just to be clear,
(19:09):
for those of you that are listening,
Elphaba was supposed tobe the person in charge
of Munchkinland, but decides not to,
and Nessa takes over instead.
- [Killian] It's a familytitle that I believe
is through her maternal grandfather
when we start the book.
(19:31):
And because Elphabadoes run off to do her,
to fight for animal rightsand things like that,
very similar to how she takes off
because of how the Wizard,
she discovering the Wizard iswho is persecuting the animals
(19:51):
because she is simply not there.
It passes to the eldest child,
which now is Nessa.
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Killian] So it's, it'salso just interesting to me
that that is through her mother's side.
Whereas in the movie and the musical--
- [Nicole] It's the father's side?
- [Killian] Squished into her dad was
the governor of Munchkinland, so she becomes it.
- [Nicole] Right. Right, right.
(20:12):
- [Killian] Those details that we lose
as we go from one medium to the other.
- [Nicole] Yeah.
- [Drew] But even discounting book Nessa
and just focusing on movie andmusical, she is fascinating.
- [Killian] She is.
- [Drew] Because she is sort of the sister
that is less othered by the world.
- [Nicole] Even though shestill has a disability,
(20:33):
she's still treated betterthan Elphaba is treated.
- [Drew] And she's this veryinteresting middle layer of it
where instead of being angry with society
for putting any sortof other on her at all,
she's mad at Elphaba fordragging her further down,
or the perception being
(20:53):
that she's dragging her further down.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Drew] It's this weird power dynamic of,
you know, proximity toappropriateness, I guess,
or proximity to quote normal.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Drew] That Nessa isn'ttaking out her frustration
on the people who aremaking her feel abnormal.
(21:14):
She's taking it out on the people
who make her feel worse.
- [Nicole] Okay, gotcha.
Yeah, because she'sportray, she's portrayed
as such a sweet characterin the movie, it seems.
And that there, there isdefinitely frustration
with her sister in terms oflike, I don't need your help.
You know, like, why are you here?
(21:35):
Could you just go home?
Like all of this kind of stuff.
She wants to be on her own
and live her own experience.
It'll be interesting to see what they do
with the second movie interms of flipping that.
So she does become the wicked witch
that she's headed to being.
- [Drew] She's also acharacter in the second movie
that I'm fascinated to see,
(21:56):
like what they're going to do with,
because in the stage show,
when she gets the shoes in the second act,
or when Elphaba enchantsthe shoes in the second act,
she's able to walk with the shoes.
In the movie the actress who plays her
is a wheelchair user in her life.
- [Nicole] Yeah, okay, oh yeah.
- [Killian] It actually broughtup a lot of conversation
(22:17):
about the--
- [Drew] The inherent ableism in it.
- [Killian] Yeah, the inherent ableism
of you need to be fixed.
- [Nicole] Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
- [Killian] And they've talked about
there's going to be a changemade to that storyline.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] And like, theyhaven't talked about what it is,
and so I'm very interested to see...
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] What they've done now,
having that perspective in a way
that just probably they didn't have...
- [Drew] Yeah.
(22:37):
- [Killian] In the time whenthe musical was created.
- [Nicole] Sure.
- [Killian] 'Cause the attitudes have--
- [Nicole] Changed,
- [Killian] --expanded.
- [Nicole] Yes, definitely.
- [Drew] Well, there's alsothe storyline in the first act,
especially of thesilencing of voices with,
and as it pertains to the animals
(22:57):
and, you know, the animalsbeing represented of the lower,
I don't wanna say lowerelements of society,
but what society itself, itsown hierarchical standards
deems the lower elements.
- [Killian] The animal story.
Go ahead, because I will go off.
- [Drew] Yes.
- [Nicole] All because theWizard says we need an enemy.
(23:21):
We need something to hate
in order for us to be successful.
And, you know, for himto have all the power.
- [Drew] Yeah.
- [Nicole] Ultimately, yeah.
- [Killian] So, the plight of the animals
is very interesting to me
because of what it is in the books
versus the musical and movie.
In the book it is, there's adistinction between animals
(23:45):
with a lowercase a,
which are animals as we know them.
Not, you know, not
- [Nicole] non speaking,
- [Killian] not speaking, not,
you know, super aware oflike the political climate
and you know, notteaching at a university,
that sort of thing.
And then animals with a capital A,
who are those animals that have speech
and are part of society.
(24:08):
Dr. Dillamond in the bookis not a history professor,
he's a biology professor,if I recall correctly.
- [Nicole] Yes.
- [Killian] He's in sciences
and he is actually researching
what the biologicaldifference between animals
with a lowercase A and animalswith an uppercase A is.
Because there's so manyattacks on animal rights
(24:31):
that he's trying to prove that there's,
whether or not there'sthat biological difference.
Because the argument isthat there isn't one.
- [Nicole] And they're all the same.
- [Killian] They're all the same, yeah.
And so animals shouldbe seen and not heard.
And he does not simply get taken away
(24:53):
for his research in the books.
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Killian] He is found in his lab,
depending on who is telling the story,
either the victim of a tragic accident
where he fell on glass and cut himself
or murdered by a tik-tok creature,
(25:14):
little robotic thingthat Madam Morrible has
that is nowhere present inthe musical or the movie.
But depending on who tells the story
is where you get the answerto what happened to him.
And that is one of the catalysts
(25:35):
for Elphaba really going down this path
that she ends up going down
because that was her mentor,
that was someone who understood her.
She worked in his lab
like over the summer type of thing.
And...
It feels higher stakesin the book version.
(25:59):
- [Nicole] Oh yeah absolutely.
- [Killian] Than it, than it does.
- [Nicole] Instead of, yougot an invitation to come
to the Emerald City that is very different
than somebody I care aboutvery much was murdered
and I need to go and get this fixed.
- [Killian] Yeah, and you know.
- [Drew] just the passageof time, it's, you know,
one semester versus years and years
of being ingrained in this research
(26:19):
and seeing the fight that he gets on it
to the ultimate end of that fight.
And she's gonna be so much more invested
and so much more hurt.
- [Nicole] Right.- [Drew] In the book.
- [Nicole] Of course.
- [Killian] The academiacommentary just in the Shiz
portion of the books is a time.
It's very interesting.
(26:41):
'Cause you also have, yes,Glinda and Elphaba are,
the Shiz is dividedinto different colleges.
So Boq is in a differentlike portion of it
because it's dividedup by girls are in one
and boys are at the other
and that sort of thing.
But there's, they all have access
(27:04):
to different things as different parts
of those schools.
And they all can do differentthings based on who they are,
where they come from, whatthey're studying, et cetera.
Just the privilege thatcomes with having access
to certain information thatonly Boq and his friends can get
because they're the only oneswith access to that library
(27:25):
and things like that
is not at all in the movie or the musical,
but very, very interesting in the book.
- [Drew] So encompassing what we know
about the whole of "Wicked", book, movie,
musical, et cetera,
what are we hoping tosee in the second movie
in terms of the, you know,expansion of the world?
(27:50):
Because I know I'm really interested
in seeing the expansion of Elphaba,
but predominantly Glindaas their own characters.
You know, Glinda in act two
doesn't have that much of a story.
She is, you know, a part of the machine
(28:10):
that's against Elphaba.
- [Nicole] Right.
- [Drew] And has her role in that,
that is very relevant,especially coming to the end
with "For Good" and all of that.
But, you know, she getsher own song in the movie,
in the second movie, rather.
- [Killian] "The Girl in the Bubble".
- [Drew] "The Girl in the Bubble".
And separate from that,they just have, you know,
(28:33):
two and a half, three hours,whatever they're allocating
to the story instead of the70 or 80 minutes of act two.
So I really want to see what, you know,
her expanded role in the world is.
- [Killian] I'm really curiousbecause I've seen rumors
that it wasn't confirmedanywhere that I saw it.
So, you know, by the time this airs,
who knows what we'll know.
(28:55):
There were rumors that it's only
about two hours and 18 minutes.
- [Drew] Oh, okay.
- [Killian] So it's shorterthan the first movie.
- [Nicole] Okay.
- [Killian] Which second acts usually are
shorter than first acts in things anyway,
but there's just so much to cover.
But we've got those new songs.
It has a PG rating insteadof the PG-13 rating.
- [Drew & Nicole] Oh.
- [Killian] About the first movie.
(29:16):
- [Nicole] Well, that's wild.
- [Killian] I checked.
- [Nicole] Maybe 'cause ofthe flying monkeys scene
is already done and over with.
- [Drew] My goodness.
- [Killian] So I am curious,
there is a scene from the stage musical
that I would've thought
that having something evenremotely close to that
would've put it into PG-13 territory.
So they're going to...
(29:36):
- [Drew] Is that Fiyero being captured or?
- [Killian] Oh, I hadn'tthought about that.
"As long as your Mine" can get a little...
- [Drew] Okay, that's fair.
- [Killian] A little much.
And usually with movies,
you see them lean intothat more than the musical.
So with how that, howI've seen that on stage,
I expected that to be a little more.
(29:59):
Doesn't seem like it's going to be.
Love that song.
The thing that I'm looking forward to most
is simply "No Good Deed"
because I am obsessed with that song.
That is my song.- [Drew] Yeah.
- [Killian] I scream singthat in my car a lot.
I'm sorry if you've ever come across me
and heard me doing that because yikes.
(Drew laughing)
But that's what I'm looking forward to,
(30:19):
and I'm very curious tosee what they do with that.
I am also curious if we will get more
explanation of the ending
than we do in the musical.
The musical leaves you a lot of room
to just kind of guess at things
(30:41):
and things like that.
And I could see a world in which
there is a change made for the movie
to make Glinda more aware of that
than she is on the stage.
- [Drew] I'm also ininterested to see how much
of "Wizard of Oz" gets sucked into it.
- [Nicole] Yeah, I agree with that.
Definitely.
(31:01):
- [Killian] Because therewere so many rumors about,
oh, who's playing Dorothy?
Who's playing Dorothy?
And she's like feet in the musical.
- [Drew] Yeah, in the musical,
the most you get is like,
you hear them off stage a little, I think.
- [Killian] And there'slike some shadow imagery
in the set sometimes and,yeah, you don't get much.
- [Nicole] Okay.- [Killian] So...
(31:23):
- [Nicole] Yeah.
Well I think it's, I'm looking forward
to seeing all of it, honestly.
- [Killian] Yeah.- [Nicole] Yeah.
I think that's gonna be really cool to see
how they continue the story, definitely.
- [Killian] I saw the firstmovie in theaters twice,
and I will at least do thatwith this one, I'm sure.
- [Drew] Oh yeah.
- [Nicole] Okay, wellthanks for listening.
(31:44):
And if you have anythingto add to the conversation,
please email us and let us know.
And we will see you next time.
- [Nicole] Thank you forjoining us for this episode
of Distracted Librarians.
- [Drew] Many thanks to "BCTV"
for their support in recording,
editing and releasing this podcast.
And to the friends of the library
for sponsoring closedcaptioning on every episode.
(32:06):
- [Killian] If you have anyquestions or suggestions,
feel free to reach out tous at distracted@btpl.org.
- [Amanda] Until then,keep those pages turning
and those screens lighting up.
We'll catch you in the next episode.
- [Emily] The views and opinions expressed
in the Distracted Librarians podcast
do not necessarily reflectthose of Bloomfield Township,
(32:28):
Bloomfield Township Public Library,
Bloomfield Community Television,
the Birmingham Area Cable Board,
or its producers or production staff.
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