Ep 20 - The Boomer Challenge: Senior Living's Need to Adapt

The boomer generation is poised to redefine senior living, presenting both a massive challenge and a significant opportunity for the industry. In Episode 20 of The Drake Insights Podcast, host Natasha Drake, along with industry veterans Lauren Messmer and Mike Brindley from Solutions Advisors, explores the critical question: Is senior living truly prepared for this demographic shift? They delve into the widening gap between current offerings and the evolving needs and desires of boomers, discussing the urgent need for innovation and adaptation across all aspects of senior living. From rethinking physical plants and unbundling services to creating communities that foster purpose and engagement, the conversation tackles tough questions about traditional models, financial structures, and sales and marketing strategies. Join Natasha, Lauren, and Mike as they examine the future of senior living and the critical steps providers must take to thrive in the coming boomer wave, including leveraging technology, prioritizing transparency, and creating a culture of purpose to attract and retain this dynamic generation.

To learn more, visit Drake Strategic at https://www.drakestrategic.com/ or Solutions Advisors at https://solutions-advisors.com/ 

This is the Drake Insights Podcast, your weekly dose of cutting-edge senior living marketing insights. Your host, Natasha Drake from Drake Strategic, will bring you bold ideas, proven strategies, and inspiring stories – straight from the experts – to help you dominate in today’s competitive market. Tune in each episode for actionable tips and insider secrets to outsmart the competition and future-proof your success. So tune in and let's conquer the senior living marketing landscape together!  @DrakeStrategic  https://www.drakestrategic.com/ 

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
This is the Drake insights podcast,your weekly dose of cutting edge
senior living marketing insights.
Join me, your host, Natasha Drake for boldideas, proven strategies and inspiring
stories straight from the experts.
Tune in and let's conquer the seniorliving marketing landscape together.
Hi guys.
Welcome back to another episodeof The Drake Insights Podcast.

(00:22):
I'm your host, NatashaDrake from Drake Strategic.
Let's get started.
So on today's episode, we're goingto dive a little more into the topic
of the future of senior living.
We know there is an intensewave of boomers aging, all being
of age in the next five years.
And if you listen to the podcast or yousaw me at LeadingAge, you know, this was
something that a topic that I brought up.

(00:43):
We talked a little more in depth and metwith everyone asking, What are your top
three words that come to mind when youthink of the future of senior living?
And there was some really incredibleinsights and topics and words that
came up, a lot of exciting, positivethings, you know, about innovation and
technology and some new amenities andfeatures and things that are coming out.
And that's great.
But today I want to talk alittle bit about the good,
the bad and the ugly, right?

(01:03):
There's some exciting, positivethings, but I do, you know,
want to call a spade a spade.
I think it's important thatyou watch that episode.
You see all the things that all thedifferent areas and industries we're
talking about, but I also want to talkabout that it's not always sunshine
and rainbows to quote, Mike Brindley.
There are a lot of things that we needto be honest and truly talk about.
You know, if you know me, you know, on myshow, I'm not going to sugarcoat things.

(01:25):
I want this to be honest and real andreally just dig in to what are the
facts, you know, in the next five yearswith the boomers coming are we prepared
from an operations infrastructure?
You know, services,amenities, perspective, as
well as sales and marketing.
So we're going to talk aboutall the different topics.
How are things changing?
What needs to change?
So we are prepared forthis next generation.

(01:48):
And before we get into that,I do want to take a moment
to introduce my guests today.
These two are prior colleaguesof mine for the past, I don't
know, I think 15 years it's been.
April '09.
This is going on 16.
We've got Lauren Messmer, the founderand CEO of Solutions Advisors.
And Mike Brindley, chief sales officeras well from Solutions Advisors.

(02:11):
So welcome both of you.
Thank you for joining.
I brought them on because, youknow, we've worked together, as
I've mentioned for a long time.
I think between the three of us, we'veseen a lot in terms of the operation
side, right, working directly in abuilding, as well as frontline, you
guys are front with the sales teams andfrom an agency marketing perspective,
kind of seen how things have changedover the years and where it's going.

(02:31):
So thank you both for joining.
If you can introduce yourself.
Well, I just want to say I felt Ifelt if I kept on telling you that
you're always one of the smartestpeople in this industry, you'd
eventually invite me to this podcast.
No, I mean, I'm very happy tobe here and truly you've always
been one of the most smartest andcentral people in this industry.

(02:53):
I'm very excited about what you'vedone with, with your company.
And, and I think that's unbelievableto be able to branch out and do
something courageous like this.
So kudos to you.
I lost my number 12 years now, Lauren, 12,
12 with the
you know, with Solutions Advisorsand you know, oversee the day
to day for the consulting.
And, you know, the one thing I've,I've pride myself on in this career

(03:15):
is being able to get in the weedsand get with these communities
and work with them individually.
So I think hopefully that's what weget out of this is, you know, what
are we seeing at the, you know, theground level and the ground, you
know, getting into the weeds versus,you know, 30,000 feet that a lot of,
I think leaders still get stuck in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Lauren Messmer president andCEO of Solutions Advisors.

(03:37):
And Natasha isn't joking because weworked together at Princeton Windrows
and in 2009, and then you worked forour team for many, many, many years.
And we worked very closely together.
So love working with you andappreciate, you know, bringing
other people in from the industry,getting perspectives, because

(03:59):
many brains are so muchbetter than just one.
And learning from other people'sexperiences I think is great.
So, you know, I really hope today, asMike said, my goal and whenever we do a
podcast or we do a presentation, is thatthere are real takeaways that people
can bring back to their communitiesand their lives and they can implement,

(04:20):
and, you know, make, make changes thatour ultimate goals and organization
is occupancy, regardless of what theposition within the organization is,
whether we're generating leads, whetherwe're cultivating leads, whether we're
advancing or converting them or whether inoperations and ensuring things are running
appropriately, our goal is occupancy andall of those things working together.

(04:40):
So hopefully that comes acrosstoday and we have some good,
good insights for everybody.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you both so much for being here.
Yeah, this is a little bit of acontroversial, but exciting topic.
You know, I think at least me in mytime working in the industry for almost
20 years, I've seen a lot of growth,but this is something unprecedented
that I don't think we're really quiteprepared for in a lot of different ways.

(05:03):
So I have some facts thatI want to first lay out.
If you, if you've been hiding under arock and you don't know these things
you haven't seen, there's been a lotof podcasts, articles coming out in
the past five years about this, butjust a couple, a couple facts here.
So 77 million baby boomerswill turn age 65 plus by 2030.
So in five years we have about a halfa million, I hate using the word unit,

(05:23):
but unit apartment shortfall by 2030.
And every day 10,000people in the US turned 65.
And by 2030 the demand for seniorliving will be unprecedented.
Every community, every unit and everynew project will be filled to capacity.
So everything that's being builtright now will be filled by 2030.
according to NIC MAP vision, toquote their data the current senior

(05:44):
living development pace shows a550,000 unit shortfall by 2030, a
$275 billion investment shortage thatwill grow to $1 trillion by 2040.
So with only 26,000 senior living unitsbeing developed annually the industry
is on track to fall, it says 50% shortof the required inventory by this year.

(06:08):
So I just wanted to share some ofthose facts that kind of kick us off.
So it's not, you know, obviously,none of us are making this up.
Obviously, all of us know of thewave of how large this generation is.
I think just helpfulto hear those numbers.
That was really impactful.
I knew the numbers of boomers, butto see all of the, the shortage of
actual you know, assisted living,independent living, you know, unit
apartments in the next five years.

(06:28):
And so what is being done about it?
What can we do about it?
As you know, I'm very passionateabout it and I'm really excited to
have you guys on to talk about thisand how we can make some changes.
So, let's start with theoperations physical plant side.
If we can, if we can start there anddig in, I mean, I lay down the facts,
but you know, what is the truth?
What are you seeing in terms of, youknow, the, the physical plant, the

(06:49):
infrastructure, services, amenities.
Where do we want tostart and kick this off?
To talk about how operators andcommunities aren't prepared for this.
You know, what are youseeing on the front lines?
And what do they need to do?
Who wants to kick us off on this?
Well,
why don't you go first, Lauren?
I think I, you know, we talk aboutthis, Mike and I talk about this a lot.
You know, the industry talks about thesilver tsunami and, you know, I kind of

(07:13):
get on my high horse about it becauseI feel like the numbers are there.
They are, but A, our, our, we have tobalance our current customer is still
the 80 year old, you know, the oldestBoomer is 78, 79, 80, depending on how you
know what age bracket you use for that.

(07:33):
And are the silent generation is stillour customer for the immediate time
and then we have to be looking aheadfor the boomers and what it is that
they're looking for and not just whatthey're looking for from a physical plant
perspective, which, you know, Mike, I'dlove for you to talk about that, but also
in services and amenities, but also theidea of sacrifice and giving up and the

(07:57):
perception that moving to a communityis a sacrifice for what it is that they
Right.
currently do.
And that's then leadingto, I'm not ready yet.
You know, when you hearthe, I'm not ready yet.
It's because it's really,I'm not ready to give up.
I'm not ready to sacrifice yet.

(08:17):
And so how do we not build retirementcommunities where the vision is
I'm sacrificing to get there.
And what does that look like?
And we work with a coupleof communities that don't.
They didn't, they didn'tbuild retirement communities.
So but I'll pass that over to Mike, ifyou want to chat about that a little bit.
And again, I think that, you know,Lauren kind of hit that head on is

(08:40):
this perception of loss by going fromtheir home, their current environment,
what they have in terms of theirown amenities at their own house.
And how they perceive livingand thriving in their own
house to come into a community.
Now it, my, my instinct says thereal estate part of this, like the
apartments in senior housing has gottena lot better, especially post COVID.
Like the, you know, I feel that when Istart seeing some of these renovations

(09:05):
and communities, just strictly forapartments, Like these are going to
survive a while, like the way they look,the feel like, you know, I think back
in the 90s and early 2000s, if theylasted one turn, you're pretty happy.
I see a little bit better.
I think really we've made reallynice apartments for prospects.
So in that, in that aspect, Ithink there's not a lot of loss.
I think sometimes prospects go,I've never had quartz before.

(09:27):
I've never had stainlesssteel and things like that.
So I think that's exciting.
I just spoke at a board retreat twoweeks ago and it was one of those
where I was on, I was on zoom, butI couldn't see the rest of the room.
So it was board members.
And then one of the board members wasactually a resident and What I was
showing was amenity spaces for the future.
What other communities are doing thatare outside the box or becoming more of

(09:50):
kind of what we expect in communities.
Yeah.
And that perception, this is what kindof boomers are looking for or really, you
know, involve silent generation types.
And I was at the community the followingweek and the resident on the board
came up to me and said, boy, when yousaid, The best thing we can do is not
build retirement communities in thisretirement communities, the board's eyes

(10:11):
lit up and then she's like, man, I wasexcited because that's, I didn't come
here to live in a retirement community.
And I think that if we can havethat mentality going forward.
We'll be okay because that'sboomers don't mean boomers
don't want to be called seniors.
Every study shows that.
So we've got to make surewe understand who they are.
And Lauren says this all thetime, you know, we need to

(10:33):
work towards what they want.
Like we need to be in their shoesand what they want, not give them
what we expect, what they want.
Yeah.
I was gonna say, can youelaborate on that a little bit?
So what do you mean specificallyby, just cause I want to clarify
for the listeners, specifically notbuilding retirement communities.
What does that then look like?
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's you know, Iknow people talk about pickleball
and things, you know, athletic sportslike that, but like that's real.

(10:56):
I mean, it's the fastest growing sportin the United States to older adults.
Yeah, but what's happening is thatcommunities are retrofitting what
they have to build a pickleball court.
You know, we have aclient who it's not even.
It wasn't even built to standard.
So really you can't play pickleball.
It has to be purposeful.

(11:18):
So, you know, something like that.
It has to be purposely built,purposely designed, not just
an afterthought that fits in.
Yeah, we've got a couple ofcommunities to work with.
I mean, they don't, theydon't have a fitness center.
I mean, they've got an absolutelya gym, 3,000 square feet,
memberships outside the community.
If you were, if you were touring thecommunity, if you're an older adult,
you know, 82, 78 to 82, and youwalked in and you saw everybody, like

(11:41):
there's always something going on.
Like, you know, one of the biggestnegative aspects of tours, well it feels
like a ghost town and we always say, well,you know, people are working right now.
I mean, like, you know, we come up withsomething to kind of give an excuse.
This community, it's, I mean,quote unquote, it's bumping.
I mean, there's always something going on.
The gym is outstanding.
It's a state of the art swimming pool,like where high school teams could
practice there if they wanted to.
Like that's to me, the next generation is.

(12:04):
With boxing classes, heavyweights,personal training, it's a gym.
It's a gym that is an outsidemembership of $150 a month.
It's, it's a gym.
Yeah,
So it's kind of like community.
And I think Lauren, you and Ispoke about this last time is, is
community spaces kind of open to thepublic, you know, where people can

(12:24):
come and go a lot of these boomers.
I mean, most of themare, are working longer.
Right.
And so for them to move into acommunity, it has to fit that lifestyle.
It's a totally different lifestyle.
So, you know, talking about, Ithink you mentioned something like
coffee shops were there, you know.
you have a,
Full restaurant, a restaurant that hasits own marketing, its own Facebook
page, it does Uber Eats, it doesDoorDash, it's open to the public.

(12:47):
There's a one of our clients hasthat at a local realtor did a whole,
you know, Tik Tok where she wentthere and met her parents there.
She's like, this isn't a retirementcommunity, full bar, smoked old fashion.
Like you're getting these thingsthat are really happening at the
community that is what they'reused to doing in their communities.
And so they don't feellike they have to give up.

(13:10):
It's all there for them.
I mean, it's just, it really is thewellness and all the dimensions of
wellness, whether four, six, seven,that you kind of work toward, everything
is covered within the community.
And it just, it doesn't feellike a retirement community.
Yeah.
And the culture there, you feel aculture there that it's not like that.

(13:33):
Like it's, it's, it's a culture oflike, wow, like this is different.
This is unique.
I want to be a part of this versus,you know, putting the stop sign
up before you get on campus.
and I would think that that also,what I have seen to a lot of the life
plan communities that I've been to,they sort of create this cookie cutter
model all across the country too.
And I think that also needsto change to your point.

(13:55):
We need to meet them where theyare, but also dependent upon the
region to where you're living.
Cause people up in, you know, whereI live close to New York City,
just a very different lifestylethan those in Florida, so to speak.
So making sure it's not, okay, well,we're creating the same life plan
model and this is what it looks like,you know, and these are the fitness
center and the three restaurants.
And I just feel likethey're touching on it.

(14:15):
They're getting to that concept and thatidea, but like you're saying, not fully.
Yeah.
And not fully what boomers, youknow, what they're looking for
and meeting them where they are inthe life that they live right now.
If I'm saying that correctly.
What are your thoughts and, and,and on this, and you can tell me
if you want me to cut this out,but what are your thoughts on the
Margaritaville Type concept in Florida.

(14:37):
I wanted to get your opinion on thatbecause that's another idea, right?
There's a few of these, right?
Where you've seen these likeresort style, that kind of concept.
And I know that attracts a certain typeof person and maybe it does exist, but
do we, is that something that's realisticfor this generation or I don't know.
I just wanted your opinion on that.
Mike, what do you think?

(14:58):
No, I mean
I'm putting you on the spot.
No, like I think I first heard about it.
I was like, oh, come on.
And then I heard boomers talk aboutit and I thought, well, if they're
talking about it, then it must besomething we need to pay attention to.
And, you know, we have a clientin, in the Carolinas that said that
Disney's building one very similarto Margaritaville in North Carolina.
So like, I just think that at leastthey understand what boomers want now.

(15:23):
And again, they're notbuilding retirement community.
They're building a placewhere people can go have fun.
It's not a medical model.
So, I mean, listen, if it fills,then they know what they're doing.
That's for sure.
Yeah.
I mean, my perspective on that is.
That's meeting people where they are.
Like there are so many people, you know.
We're at the age, I'm sorry, but allthree of us, even though, you know, Mike

(15:47):
is clearly the oldest one all of us areat the age where our parents have are
considering or looking or friends parents,or, you know, our parents' friends, and
they come to us and ask their advice andthey come to us and they want to know.
And, and so, you know, dealing withthis with my parents, it's like, sure,
there's a large newly built and Mike knowswhich one you resort style community.

(16:12):
That's thousand units.
And then there's the one that'sestablished not for profit CCRC that's
been there, that's smaller, but it'smy mom doesn't want the big like
that's not who she is as an individual.
She wants a community where she can fit inand meet people easily and not feel lost.
So, so it is also about understandingwhat people want and having different

(16:35):
options for the different desires.
So, I mean, I think theMargaritaville thing is great.
It's not my thing.
You know, the Villages here inFlorida, of course, you know, everyone
knows the Villages and they'vebeen around and growing forever.
You know, I have family wholives in the Villages part time.
And I have people looking at theVillages who would never move in.

(16:56):
So it's just, I'm, I'm fine withthat, but that's not, that's not going
to resolve the issue for everybody.
Not everyone wants that kind ofstimulation and, you know, the old
adage of, you know, cruise ship on land.
You know, who wants to liveon a cruise ship all day?
Like, you know, it's all, it'sreally about growth, purpose,

(17:16):
opportunities for people to learn,continue learning, continue thriving.
And that is what we've seen.
You know, taking up a hobby, thewoodworking studio, the art showcasing,
you know, resident art, you know, reallythings that people are doing at the
community and understanding, you know,what's what is interesting to them?

(17:37):
You know, we were at Princeton Windrows.
You know, art was a big thing there.
And so focusing on what's importantto the residents that live there
and then shifting your marketing andsales approach to address what they're
looking for is the most critical thing.
Yeah.
And I don't, we, we're kind oftouching on this, but I just want
to venture over and see if there'sany more we want to talk about in

(17:59):
terms of the services and amenitiesspecifically, you know, and, and tying
in care and healthcare into that too.
You know, cause obviously boomers careabout care, their healthcare of course,
but it's, it's a different model, right?
It's more about.
I hate to use successful aging, right?
But it's more about wellness andfocusing on aging successfully longer.
I mean, literally my dad is thehealthiest he's ever been than

(18:22):
he ever was before right now.
I mean, he's really focusing on thatand that's his biggest thing because
he doesn't want to go to a community.
It's kind of what he says, right?
So I'm thinking how, howhe's kind of my model of.
How and what would I do toattract him that type of a boomer?
Cause that's a largepart of that population.
So yeah, what are, in terms ofservices, you know, it can't be
meals, I would assume, right.

(18:43):
We have to kind of change some of theseconcepts of meals and specifically
the care focus and they want tocontrol more of their money, right.
And their assets.
And I'm just, I'm curious aboutthat mentality and how that's
going to change the model and thestructure of the care service amenity
models that these communities too.
Yeah.
I mean, that's a really interestingquestion and I'll probably answer
it in a way that is so like off andmaybe I'll try to bring it back to it.

(19:06):
But you know, one of the things that I'veseen, especially post pandemic is even
how the silent generation and how they'rebehaving comparative towards boomers.
Like they're verysimilar in a lot of ways.
Some of these younger silents, they'vetaken on a lot of boomer persona.
And so where I'd start is if wedon't understand that they're using

(19:27):
smartphones and technology and streaming.
You know, I get really nerdy aboutthis, but "Only Murders in the
Building" on the Hulu platform.
It's been the most streamedshow on the Hulu original
network for the last four years.
Stars a 77 year old Steve Martin,a 76 year old Martin Short.
Directed, produced by them.
You know, Nathan Lane's been on it.
Shirley McClain's been on it.

(19:47):
Like other than Selena Gomez,every main actor is an older adult.
Okay, 25 and 30 yearolds aren't watching it.
It's being carried by older adults.
So if we don't understand this conceptthat they're streaming now and they're
using their iPhones and their padsand tablets like we will lose and
I know we get it that they do it.

(20:08):
Like that's critical.
Like, you know, we, we go to thesecommunities where they still don't have
platforms that are upgraded to whatboomers would want, like a, a Wellzesta
in place and things out there like that.
Like if we don't understand thatinitial concept of how they're
performing every day in their life,using Instacart and DoorDash and things
like that, then we don't get them.
And so we'll lose.

(20:29):
So I think we have tounderstand who they are.
And we've talked about that.
And then that the care sideof it, while important.
isn't what's going to bringthem to the community first.
Right.
And then once they get there andthey get comfortable, that's when
they ask the questions and say,well, can I see your assisted living?
Or if you have skilled nursing, letme, can I see your skilled nursing?
And then that's all about, you know, howare you preparing for that and what that

(20:52):
looks like and what that feels like.
If we don't do that on that visit and justkind of open the door and say, here it is.
That's where you're going to losethis customer pretty quickly because
what they see when they go back thereis going to be reminding them of
what they saw when they placed theirparents back in the 70s, 80s and 90s.
Yeah.
Well, also operationally Ithink, you know, when you talk

(21:12):
about health care in particular.
You're not just talking aboutyour external prospects.
You're talking about your residentsand selling the healthcare.
You know, a lot of people aregetting rid of their skilled
nursing beds, but there's plenty ofcommunities that still have them.
But selling assisted living, memory care,skilled nursing to your existing residents
through a very structured program withinternal marketing is a whole other.

(21:36):
I mean, we work with some clientswhere if they're, we're working really
hard on getting their residents totrust the move and the transition.
And that's something that I don't knowthat we talk about enough because we
think, well, we don't want to reflectpoorly on operations, but we have to
acknowledge this and talk about thisin our marketing planning meetings.

(21:58):
So that we have marketing strategiesthat are around the existing
residents that live at the community.
And that's also why we have inour marketing planning sessions.
We have our EDS, we have our,you know, programming directors,
we have our head nurses.
We have people who are not traditionallyin marketing because your marketing
to your internal residents isjust as important with that.

(22:22):
I just talked last week on someonewho's gonna be on a future podcast about
that, about care and how much sales andmarketing and the concierge amenities have
grown, but how health care hasn't reallymoved that far as concierge amenities.
And if we took that same mentalitywith the care how much impact we'd
have on, on the residents and thecare that they're being provided.

(22:43):
So I agree completely.
Another question is, do you feelthat, you know, and I'm talking true
boomers, you know, are filling thesebuildings, whatever they end up being.
Do you feel like the the structure ofwhether it's life plan or independent
living, you know, where you're, you'repaying that life plan entrance fee,
you're paying a monthly fee, you'regetting a set number of this for that.

(23:06):
Do you think that that's reallyrealistic for this generation?
I'm just curious because most of theboomers I know, very tight control
of their assets and their money.
And I'm just curious if thatstructure If we feel like that
type of structure will be able tocontinue for the next five, 10 years.
I don't know.
What are your
The entrance fee model in particular,you're talking about not necessarily

(23:27):
type a or type c or modify.
Right.
Just that model of, yeah, upfrontmoney, you're controlling it,
you know, and for my health care.
I don't know.
I'm just curious if, if that type ofa model will sustain this generation.
As well as then yourmonthly service fees, right?
So you, then on top of that,you then have monthly service
fees and what does that include?
And we're talking about how they wantto have meals when they want them.

(23:49):
They want to have restaurants.
I feel like they're more of a, Iwant to pay for things when, and if I
need them, not just pay you flat out.
Every month.
I mean, this is a generationwho a lot of assets, right?
They, most of them own their homes,all of these things that I just
think, just curious, I don't knowwhat your thoughts are on that.
And if we think that this generationwill be able to continue and
sustain that model, or if it needsa new model structure needs to

(24:11):
come about, I don't know, justsomething I think about sometimes,
you know, I think number one, a lotof times when you talk about life
plan, the, the counterpart to thatis, is a rental like monthly rental.
Right.
We've been involved in other contractsthat there's also straight equity model.

(24:34):
There's a potentially, you know,there's co op models out there.
We, we have a client that has that.
I think the, so there are other models.
I think the number one thing whenyou're talking about entrance fee
versus rental is the reality is therental communities that are being built
are not necessarily substandard withconstruction and amenities like they

(24:58):
used to be, you know, the, the rentalcommunity used to equate to less.
That's for this person who couldn'tafford the entrance fee concept.
Couldn't afford to put the money down.
So they went to a rental.
That is not the case anymore.
It truly is.

(25:18):
What, where do I feel right?
And then the financial contractis another component of that.
And so what we're doing, you know,and you don't see a lot of rental
communities adding an entrance feecontract, but we are seeing entrance
fee contract communities add rentaloptions for specific units, or as a
different, you know, with an elevatea certain number, you know, sometimes

(25:41):
there's restrictions around that.
But so do I think it's, youknow, totally on the way out.
I think the type C contractis probably more appealing.
Because to your point, they'regoing to pay for services if
and when they need it ever.
But some of the rental communities,you know, they, they also did a huge

(26:02):
monthly service fee increases over COVID.
And so are they pricing themselves outof that, you know, boomer population?
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I think, Ithink you hit most of it.
I think, you know, again,it's the model, right?
And at the end of the day, whetherit's not for profit or for profit,
these are businesses, and theyhave to be ran as businesses.
So, you know, if you are stickingto just your life care, you know,

(26:24):
life plan formula, well, yeah.
If you go, if these people age in placeand go to assisted living and memory
care and eventually skilled nursing,you know, is your monthly service fee
even covering the cost of what laboris going to be down the road and the
cost of building these communities.
And so, you know, I think the marginthere gets really tight and that's
where these type C fee for servicesmay be a better alternative, not
just for the prospect, but for thedeveloper and the operator too.

(26:46):
So I think they have to weigh that in.
I said this on your LeadingAge,you know, snippet podcast, my, one
of my big concerns in the industryhas been monthly service fees.
You know, if a room was $4,000 or$5,000 four years ago and you couldn't
sell it then, and now you've addedabout 15 to 20 percent worth of,
you know, raising fees on top of it.
If they like it at $5,000, why arethey gonna like it at $6,200 or $6,400?

(27:09):
So, you know, where I don'tthink the industry has changed
is the market dictates a lot ofwhat people are willing to pay.
And so I think sometimes we get alittle too aggressive or greedy.
And I was listening to a zooma couple of weeks ago where if
you're 86 percent occupancy andyou feel like you've got great
occupancy, don't be stubborn to rate.
Like you've got to be willing tosay, does this apartment really

(27:30):
generate this type of revenue?
And leaving it empty doesn'tget you any revenue either.
So that, that would be my biggest concernis like, we've got to be flexible.
And I think, like, I don't thinkwe need to change the industry, but
we need to be flexible in how weoperate our communities for sure.
Yeah.
And I guess that's more of what I meanis I, I, I'm curious if this generation

(27:51):
and I'm, and I'm talking, I guess moreof the younger, I know the boomers
are quite a large span, but the, someof the younger boomers wanting to
pay even a monthly service fee forservices that they might not need.
I can just picture them being like,well, I'm going to want, these are the,
you know, more a la carte, I guess.
Right.
These are the types of services I want.
And I'm going to pay for my mealswhen I, when I sit down, when
I go to the restaurant, I'm notgoing to pay you every month.

(28:12):
I'm going to pay you whenI go like they do now.
Right.
I have doctors, a lot of them havevery specific doctors that they
see and I will not see anyone else.
So those are my doctors.
And you know what I mean?
So it's a little bit different of a,more prescriptive of these are the
three amenities I'm going to use.
These are the services I'm going to use.
I'm going to come and go as I please,and you know, so like you were saying
Lauren, more of the kind of that,that kind of co op condo concept of
an a la carte service and amenities.

(28:34):
I don't
Well, and unbundling, unbundlingthe services, I think, is a fabulous
thing to explore, particularly indestination locations where you might
have a really transient population.
You don't want to turn those units.
You want to keep them and offer themthe ability to do what again, they
don't have to give up what they'reused to doing the travel, all of
that, and having an unbrundled servicepackage or an option that gives them

(28:56):
the ability to have that choice, Ithink, is is absolutely critical.
But then, at the same time, then there'sthe other side of that, which is, are
we building the right product on thecampuses as we're doing expansions?
And to your point in the beginning withthe stats, expansions have to happen.
And is the right product more ofan adult, active adult product

(29:19):
where there's no services.
You have very few FTEs and then you havediscounted memberships to your amazing
gym or your restaurants that are opento the public and there's a discount,
but people kind of come in and livewithin that community, but they're only
utilizing it as they would if they were,didn't live in a retirement community.

(29:41):
So it's more age restricted, 55 plus,not having the shared amenity spaces
necessarily within that product on thecampus, but then they have access to
the amenity spaces within the campus.
Like, I really think there's a lotthere that still needs to be explored.
I think active adult is huge.
Yeah,
yeah,
Boomers are so purposeful, so intentional.

(30:03):
Like that's why active adult works forthem because they kind of drive what
happens every day at that community.
But it also can be very nomadic.
So like if they want to go to like,if they live in Philly and want to go
to Arizona for two years and try itout there, they're willing to do that.
And if they don't like it, thenthey may go somewhere else.
So like, you know, if.
And to do that, you have a price, you'dhave to a price point that works for them.

(30:23):
Right.
Is there any more before we headover to the sales and marketing
realm because I want to talk alittle bit about that too obviously.
Is there any more in terms of, that wewant to talk about in terms of operations
perspective that we haven't touched upon?
Well, Lauren and I talked, we talkedabout just the importance of culture.
And again, we brought it up earlier, butlike, I think this, this operation sales
culture has to be really much in line.

(30:44):
And again, it's not like, you know,back in the old days where we said,
all right, the executive director, youhave to call this lead after they tour.
And you show them that, youknow, that's our best practice.
Like, I mean, that's fine.
It still works, but.
Do they understand?
Like when, when I do salesworkshops, I don't do them just
for the sales team anymore.
I do them for all of leadership,not because we expect them to sell.

(31:04):
We needed them to understandwhat this culture feels like.
Not just the process and the steps,but like how it's supposed to feel
for the journey for this prospect.
And boy, when we do that in communitiesand it really sticks, then we see
like the sparks and magic happen.
It's we can't have this stuffwith operation and sales still.
I mean, that's just, it just doesn't work.

(31:25):
Well, and especially because thatkind of takes me into the sales
dive into sales a little bit becausethis generation is known for,
you know, having a lack of trust.
Right.
And, and wanting, you know, that honest,transparent, and everyone wants that, of
course, but I just think more so, right?
That, that this generationdoes specifically.
And so, yeah, that takes me into,you can't just do ads with stock

(31:49):
photography and, you know, justthe salesperson pushing and selling
and whatever it might be, right.
It needs to be very differentwith this boomer prospect as
well as the adult child prospect.
They're very different.
So I'm just curious from a salesperspective, how, and if you have seen you
know, on the front lines, that changingat all, or how do you anticipate seeing

(32:10):
the sales process changing moving forward?
Well, I, I saw this prior and Isaid to Lauren, I mean, this, I
hope it doesn't change, right?
Like, I don't want the process tochange because personally, in our
culture, I think we do it really well.
And I think we coach it really well.
And so I hope it doesn't.
Now, have I seen our industryover the last 10 years and really

(32:32):
hard the last 5 years, talk aboutrelational sales, develop better
relationships with prospects.
The key is, you know, building,building relationship with your
prospect, understanding where they are.
It's happening.
It's great.
Now I think what we don't want is peoplehaving like a high school level of that.
It's like, how do we teach themto have a bachelorette or a
master's and a doctorate of this?

(32:52):
And so if, if we don't understandthe boomers are relational,
again, we're going to lose.
So to me, it shouldn't change.
It's how do we explore it differently andunderstand it and understand the people
we're talking to and coaching salespeopleto not go to bad habits that have happened
in this industry for 30, 40 years.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, I think the bottom line is.

(33:15):
We still have an industry that asMike says, relationship building
within the sales process is happening,they're building relationships.
But we still hear, well,I just need more leads.
I just need more leads to workbecause it is just a natural thing.

(33:35):
This is not an individual thing.
It's not a community thing.
It is just natural when you're workingthose leads every day to fall back into
the process of working what's right infront of you and, and who's ready to raise
their hand and not really digging into atrue person centered approach to sales.

(34:00):
It's just easy to do it.
The best salespeople and the mosteffective salespeople I've heard that
from, but it's just, it needs constantreinforcement and that, that approach
needs constant reinforcement and focusingon those, those KPIs and the activities
that actually advance prospects.
Like planning and spending time inplanning, whiteboard planning sessions,

(34:23):
creative followup, home visits.
Those things that are driving to advancesand really understanding what they are.
That's what the sales process is about.
But at the same time, you know, then italso ties into expectations matching.
So, you know, one of the things that Mikeand I have talked about and we talked
about with our team is one of the biggestindications of a lead advancing through

(34:48):
the sales cycle is, is your repeat tour.
So looking at your KPIs,what are your repeat tours?
Because at the end of the day,particularly with a life plan
entrance fee community, peopledon't tour once and move in.
Right.
Multiple visits, sometimesthree, five, 10, 14.
They have multiple visits.
So if you aren't seeing the repeat tours,then identifying what it is and trying

(35:15):
to figure out why you're not seeingthose repeat tours is super critical.
And when you were first asked thequestion and we were thinking about
sales and marketing, what to do.
One of the biggest reasons why wesee a drop in repeat tours sometimes
is that the expectations that theprospect has when they arrive at the

(35:35):
community and tour is not the sameas the expectation they had when they
were at home looking on your website.
So they're reviewing your website.
They're trying to understand themost important things I'm looking at.
Price, put it on.
Photos, put them on.
Floor plans, put them on.
And so they, those are the threethings that people look at and that's

(35:57):
what they want to, you know, theywant to know and feel the community.
And so if you're seeing people come andthen what they see when they tour, it
doesn't match the expectations of whatthey had visit, why would they come back?
They're not going to, they're going tosay, I'm not ready yet because the idea
of I'm have to give up something to movein and I'm not giving up something right
now, I'm not ready to give up something.

(36:18):
So, you know, I think that,
Or we oversold them on that firstvisit and overwhelmed them because
we showed them every nook and crannyof the community and show them
things that don't even interest them.
And again, you know, these buildingsare big and they're not getting smaller.
And so you can easily overwhelm a prospecton the first visit when, by the way,
they were just trying to learn about you.
Like they weren't, they don'tbe actively sold to anyway.

(36:39):
And so, you know, if you make a decision,you know, the next 30 days or 60
days, here's what we can do for you.
Like they're going to like.
I say it a lot, but they're going to jointhe witness witness protection program.
Cause we scared them away.
Cause we oversold to themso quickly in the process.
I do want to touch on a coupleof things you both said.
So yeah, I, I, the episode that went outlast month about sales specifically, we
talked about that and in talking abouthow your message, your tone, your culture,

(37:04):
your brand, your essence, right on yourwebsite needs to match the experience
they're going to have and how I have seen.
Many times it's great.
You know, I'm sure you've seen,but many times when I'm coming in,
I'm like, these aren't even close.
You know, I come and visit the communityand I'm like, this is not what your
website is seeing or vice versa.
They have all stock photos ontheir website and you know, either
it's, it's, it's looks bad onthe website or it looks fake.

(37:25):
Right.
And it's, you're notgetting that experience.
And to back to what I said aboutboomers and, and trust and transparency
and honesty, we need to do thateven more than ever right now.
And so this, I, this concept of, Iknow that's sort of controversial is,
yeah, like you were saying, Lauren.
Are we putting pricing?
Are we putting all of our photos?
Let's not put all of that.
Let's not, I mean, I think nowwe need to get behind that with
this generation specifically.

(37:45):
Now, do we have to have everything?
Not everything, but it's more ofa, this prospect and their adult
child is a digital prospect.
They are used to self sales.
They want to go on the computer.
I mean, you can buy a car yourselfnow online, you know, like they,
they want to be able to self select.
And I understand that that takes therelationship a little bit out of it.
Obviously we want them to come in andthat's the goal, but we don't want

(38:06):
to lose them either off the website.
Cause they want to go to anothercommunity's website where they
can look at all those things.
So I think it's a mix between,you know, I know that was
something that a lot of times.
Agency struggled with is howmuch do I put and what do I put?
But today with the way that thisconsumer is, is buying online, right?
Everything's automated.
They're getting access to whatever theywant, when they want it, chatbots AI.

(38:28):
We have to get behind that in thenext, you know, now, so that, you
know, we are not losing these boomerprospects as they're on our website.
And then they come for avisit, like you're saying.
If they can't schedule a tour on yourwebsite, they're going to go to somebody
else's website and schedule a tour.
Yeah,
On the website, schedule the tour.
And we used to say things like, well,we don't, you know, we, if we got a

(38:49):
website move in, like again, prior to thepandemic, we were kind of high fiving.
Now, if you're not gettingwebsite move ins, then you got
to look at what you're doing.
And I don't look at stuff, notthe sales execution part of it.
Like what is your website portraying?
Yeah, no, 100%.
Okay, let's see, where do I go from here?
Well, you know more.
I only have like a millionthings I could talk about.

(39:09):
No, I, yeah, Lauren's got something thatshe brought to me the other day that I
thought was absolutely so spot on when itcomes to just the marketing side of it.
yeah, I do wanna dig into
yeah, you know, I think it'sreally, it actually goes back
to what our last point was.
So Lauren, I think this termyou use was really strong too.
Having this opportunity in thisforum to kind of again, give people

(39:29):
takeaways that they can go back totheir partners, their internal teams.
And really ask some questions is.
When it comes to the website, not just,yes, you've got to do the chatbots,
you've got to have AI is here.
And so we have to embrace that.
And how do we utilize that?
And a chatbot, for example, is one versionof that and being able to schedule your

(39:53):
tour and being able to do all of that.
But at the end of the day, it is stilla a human, it's a human interaction.
And I think what happens a lot of timesis that organizations that provide digital
marketing services, advertising services,they come up with vanity data that then

(40:16):
that really doesn't mean anything andit certainly doesn't drive occupancy.
So it's just data that doesn't reallylead to any actual conversions.
And so I've been talking aboutthat a lot with our industry
partners who do what we do.
We really have to look at the leads thatare coming in, the quality of those leads

(40:40):
and ensuring that they're true leadsso that we're not going back to that.
Well, we need more leads, whichis what happens, you know, in
that transactional sales approach.
So I think when Mike was referring towas kind of this vanity data that, that
truly doesn't drive occupancy and itcauses a particularly, if you're an
organization that has a sales team andthen you have an advertising agency

(41:04):
that's working with you, it only causesthese head butting of, I need more leads.
And then, well, I got you the conversions.
I got you the visits.
Whatever happens when it gets toyou is your problem, not my problem.
That's that's a problem because everysingle person in the room on the

(41:25):
team, no matter what their role shouldbe driving to occupancy as a team.
Not butting heads with eachother and fighting and, you know,
that, that just doesn't lead tooccupancy, like it just doesn't.
Well, and I think in same,in the same line of that
conversions from your website.
I just wanna talk about that for a secondbecause I hear what you're saying and,

(41:45):
and many of the sales teams I work with tosay, these aren't, these aren't qualified.
They, they came in, I emailed them,I called, they never called me back.
I do want to touch on thefact that it is a different
prospect too than it was before.
So I think before when you wouldget a website lead, I know when I
used to get a website lead, callthem, they'd answer right away
or they'd call you the next day.
It was just, that just,that was the way it worked.
It is different with technology,the way that people are researching,

(42:09):
consumers are looking online, they'regoing to your website six times.
Maybe it was an SEO link.
Maybe it was a paid ad. Maybe itwas through Facebook meta, right?
They then got to your websitefour or five times, right?
So to get all this information, thenthey're finally converting, right?
They put their information in whateverit might be, but they might not be ready.
And so I think a lot of times we hearthat's on a qualified lead, even though
it converted, but it's important.

(42:29):
And this came up on the sales episodewe just did that and the sales teams
also, and I know you guys work with,with your sales teams on this need to
be trained and coached and whateverit might be, that this is a different
prospect and it doesn't necessarilymean that they're not qualified.
Right?
So just that idea of, and I think that'sgoing to, that's going to keep getting,
not getting worse, but that's going tokeep happening as these younger boomers
age and become more self selecting andtechnological digital, right online,

(42:54):
they might not respond right away.
They might not want to come in right away.
This is a long process andthe longer process for them.
You know, so I think it's twofold.
I, I agree with you, but I also thinkwe have to remember that it is just
because they didn't call back right away.
It doesn't make it unqualified.
You know, you're going to get less.
Right right.
But then the touch points have to bedifferent to them because then that phone
call is not going to get you anywhere.
So what are those touch points?
Whether we put them as a future leadyou know, and then we're using blogs

(43:18):
in different ways to continually havetouch points with them that way so
that when they are ready, then theyself select back in, they call you.
Giving up and just makingthem lost definitely won't
get you where you need to go.
Yeah.
I know we're nearing the end of our time.
I do want to talk a little bit moreabout marketing if we can, in terms of,
and we've kind of touched on it and Iknow Lauren, you and I spoke about it,
but in terms of marketing specifically,the way we market, the messaging, our

(43:43):
ads, you know, what we're doing also itneeds to change based very similar to
what we're just talking about in termsof the website and our sales process.
How do we see that changing?
And, and I kind of brought it upas one of the things is being more
honest and transparent and real.
You know, with, and we know that forthe past five years, we've been talking
about that, but even more so than ever,you know, boomers can see right through
those ads and those stock photos, youknow, and your branded headline, whatever

(44:06):
it might be that talks about yourcommunity and just being more focused on.
You know, PR and social and real, right.
Real stories, real testimonialsshowing the real people.
I don't know if, if you have any thoughtson that and how you see that changing.
I think you're absolutely right.
And it all ties into the, to yourpoint, the transparency that the
boomer expects with their research.

(44:28):
Because even if going back to that,that true prospect who doesn't
raise their hand, it doesn't meanthat they're not at home working
themselves through the sales process.
Right?
So it doesn't mean that they're not goingto get there, you know, eventually.
The biggest difference in whatwe're trying to push out for the

(44:49):
upcoming population is to give themthe information that they want and
to be honest about the information.
So we do mystery shopping all the time.
I have.
A, you know, several fake personas thatexist and they're quite entertaining.
They all have their own socialmedia pages and maintain them.
They're real.

(45:10):
They're probably in your CRM right now.
Right.
But it's amazing how many timesI inquire through the website.
And say, here's what I want to know.
I want to know your pricing, yourcontracts and your floor plans.
Well, which, you know, wehave over 15 floor plans.
Which one would you be interested in?

(45:32):
Just send me all of them.
Well, we really want to make sure that wecustomize what it is that we need for you.
I don't want, I'm not ready for that yet.
I, I really just want to understandwhat the, what is the price, what is the
floor plan and they won't give it to you.
Now that is typically, that's a veryold school way of providing information.

(45:55):
That is 20 years ago.
We don't tour you until,you know, that it's just.
That is a very old way to do things.
Why not?
Why are we trying to hide?
I get it that sometimes the value ofwhat we provide as an organization
is not always understood by theprospects that, that we serve.

(46:16):
I totally agree with that.
But the access to information, theaccess to research, the access to
your competitor's pricing, yourcompetitor's floor plans that people
are giving is going to make youat the bottom of the list for just
the sake of a lack of transparency.
That's a huge thing.

(46:37):
I mean, we used to have talk aboutpricing on the website and it was, well,
let's just do the starting at pricing.
Okay.
I don't get it.
Just give him the price.
Just give them the pricing.
Yes.
Right.
Yeah.
Cause they're gonna, you're,they're going to get it.
And then you talk about value.
Let's share articles.
Let's try to put outsome of that information.
Yes.
Let's do our own stats.

(46:58):
Let's do our own data or let, weknow they can find it, especially
now with AI generative search.
I mean, it's going to pull itmaybe from even bad websites.
So let's, let's givethem that information.
Let them, let them figure out thatwhat we're offering is a good value
for what you're getting for it.
So, yeah, my gosh, I could
That is the how you connect.
That's the bridge between what'shappening and what's changed in our

(47:22):
industry from a digital perspectiveand what salespeople are doing.
That is the bridge right there, because ifwe as salespeople can be transparent, can
provide the information that the prospectsare looking for without having to require
them to reciprocate with all of thisinformation about themselves or come for

(47:43):
a tour or whatever it is, they're goingto connect with that salesperson stronger.
They're going to have inherenttrust so that when they're ready
to tour, the connection is justgoing to be so much stronger.
Like, it just is andat the end of the day.
The prospects buy from people they like.

(48:04):
It's not the only driving factor.
Price is a factor.
Amenities are factors.
There's many factors involved,but we all have said, yeah, I
don't care what that product is.
I'm not buying it from thatperson because I don't like them.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if we can be transparent withthe prospects that are coming in
as much as we can, It builds atrust and builds a relationship.

(48:26):
And I would say that's oneof the biggest things that's
changed on the marketing side.
Yeah.
And I think too, I was just talkingwith someone yesterday about PR
and social, and I know it's toughbecause it doesn't necessarily.
It's not necessarily a quantifiablelead generator, but we know that
boomers are most likely going totrust, and most people do, but they

(48:47):
specifically trust what they seeon the news and an article, right?
What they read, something that'snot specifically on your website.
More so than just what you're sayingright in your ads and on your website.
And so I think even more than ever,that needs to be incorporated as well.
And there's a way to do thatnow with digital PR, right?
And, and right, the right andwrong way to do those things.
But that's another actionable thingthat I think we have to remember, that,

(49:10):
like I was saying, your ads and yourwhat you're saying is, you know, in,
in their mind, less trustworthy thanwhat someone else is saying about you.
So
I just think I go back to, I gotto see Malcolm Gladwell speak a few
years ago, a long time contributor forthe New Yorker magazine, and he said
that many companies believe in starsbecause they don't believe in systems.

(49:32):
And how many times have we gottenresumes as industry leaders go?
Look at this resume likethey look, they're amazing.
We got to get them.
We got to get that that superstar.
And then they don't workor they don't fizzle.
They fizzle out and they maybe a star at one community.
Why can't that translateto another community?
And, and I, that's resonated with me.
And I still think that'swhere we're going with this.
Like, if we don't believe in systemsand how we're putting this together,

(49:54):
this process or culture, thenwe're going to have a hard time.
And we've got to invest in thesesystems and get them and work.
You know, I say this all the time to myteam and Lauren gets tired of hearing
me say it, but she repeats it too is.
This isn't hard.
But, this is hard work.
And so we've got to be able to put inthe hard work and the, and make sure
we get better at these systems so thatthen when we work with prospects, we

(50:17):
actually get them to the finish lineversus kind of hoping that they like it
the first time and make a buying decision.
Yeah.
Well, thank you guys so much for beingon and going through all these things.
I think a lot of this stuff thatwe talked about, I feel like a lot
of the listeners today might think,yeah, I'm doing these things or
yeah, of course we know those things.
Cause they, I think in theback of your mind, like, yeah,
yeah, we're doing that stuff.
But like you said, actionable takeaway is.

(50:39):
Are you doing the full depth andare you putting the work in to
really, really focus on this?
You know, okay.
Yeah.
You have a chat bot on yourwebsite, but what else, right?
What else is keeping your prospectsfrom converting from your website?
So just digging in further.
I want to see if there was any, I knowwhat you guys went through so much.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for, for going througheverything, but is there anything else
you want to mention as like just anending key takeaway from today that

(51:01):
you want to leave for the listeners?
I would do, I would commit todo an honest assessment of your
organization in those areas of.
Number one, leadership andculture within the organization.
You know, look, walking in thefront door for the first time.

(51:21):
Understanding firstimpressions, understanding that.
Like doing and then understandinga yes culture and what that means
and talking to the residents andtalking to the team members to to
understand if you have a yes culture.
Every organization should do an honestassessment of how their culture is
and if it's a true sales culture, andthen how to revise it if it is not.

(51:45):
And then extending that to the salesand marketing components as well is
very critical, but you've got to look atit with fresh eyes or ask someone from
outside of the perspective to come in andassess it because it's really hard to see
these things when you're in it every day.

(52:05):
It's impossible to see thesethings when you're in it every day.
I mean, I, I, it's just.
We do it and we just default tono, or we default to, yeah, we
used to do that and it didn't work.
So let's do something different.
Well, when did you use to do it and whowith, and maybe it works now, you know.
So, so the no cultureis just, it's natural.

(52:28):
It's normal.
And I would just really doan honest assessment of that.
Yeah.
Where salespeople get tired.
They won't ask anymore because they're,they've been told no too many times.
And if you ever wants to come backto a podcast that's funny about the
signs we see in community that createa, a no culture, we could do that for
Oh, that would be fun.

(52:48):
I just feel like there was notenough like laughing and hilarity.
Like I think this is a list.
Sorry.
This was so
serious.
I know
okay.
So we'll do another one.
That's more fun and uplifting.
But I, but I do think it's importantbecause I, you know, after doing this at
LeadingAge, I, it was wonderful and I'veheard some amazing positive things and I
think that's great, but I feel like therewas a lot of miss a little bit on some

(53:09):
of those things we have to prepare for.
So I did want this to be a little,make people a little more aware and
insightful and think about these things.
But yeah, there's also some awesome,positive, exciting things that a lot
of the communities we work with aredoing and looking forward to, and, you
know, we'll move, move up from hereand, you know, help this industry grow.
Was there anything more you wantedto say in terms of a lasting

(53:29):
key takeaway before we leave?
No, this is great.
And again, we always appreciatethe time just with you in general.
And I think the messaging that you'vebeen getting out is, I think what
you said earlier is really powerful.
I know every person, all, all eightpeople who want to watch me, including
my mother watch this podcast.
You know, will say thatlike, we already do this.
But like to Lauren's point, butlike be introspective, like, do

(53:52):
you really do this all the time?
Are we committed to this hard work?
Or do we go back to some of thesebad habits that this industry
has had for a really long time?
Yeah.
Well, occupancy will tell.
So if your occupancy is not stabilized,then you're kind of in denial
if you think you're doing this.
Yeah.
And be prepared.
You know, I really want a place, you know,for my parents, my, you know, my kids,

(54:17):
you know, me, whatever, someday, like, Ijust want everyone to start to be prepared
now because every time I talk aboutthis, I hear a lot of, oh, not ready yet.
We're not ready.
We're not there yet.
And it's like, we need to be planning now.
So that's kind of my impetus andmy, why I'm so passionate about it.
So thank you guys both for being on today.
I, this is very heartfelt for me havingyou both here and I really appreciate it.
Appreciate your insights.
And thank you again for watching anotherepisode of The Drake Insights Podcast.

(54:41):
I look forward to seeing you next time.
Bye.