April 2, 2025 • 39 mins
In Episode 21 of The Drake Insights Podcast, host Natasha Drake and senior living expert Andrew Gall discuss a controversial yet crucial topic: the integration of clinical and care teams into the sales and marketing process in senior living communities.
Gall, a customer success manager from PointClickCare with extensive experience in senior living operations, sales, and marketing, emphasizes the growing disconnect between the promises made during the sales process and the actual care delivered to residents. This disconnect often leads to resident dissatisfaction and high turnover rates.
The conversation highlights the necessity for a shift towards a proactive care model that involves clinical teams from the outset. This approach not only eases the concerns of potential residents and their families, especially the boomer generation seeking transparency, but also contributes to better resident outcomes and community stability.
The discussion centers around "value-based care" and how operationalizing it and adopting technologies can be a solution to key challenges in the industry. They further explores the role of technology in achieving these goals.
This episode provides valuable insights for senior living operators, sales and marketing professionals, and anyone interested in the evolving landscape of senior care.
To learn more, visit Drake Strategic at https://www.drakestrategic.com/ or PointClickCare at https://pointclickcare.com/
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This is the Drake Insights Podcast,your weekly dose of cutting edge
senior living marketing insights.
Join me, your host, Natasha Drake for boldideas, proven strategies, and inspiring
stories straight from the experts.
Tune in and let's conquer the seniorliving marketing landscape together.
Natasha (00:17):
Hi guys.
Welcome back to another episodeof The Drake Insights Podcast.
I'm your host, NatashaDrake from Drake Strategic.
Let's get started.
So on today's episode, we're gonnakind of veer away from what we've
been talking about recently and it'sa little bit of a controversial topic.
So we're gonna be talking aboutthe clinical side of operations
(00:37):
and sales and marketing.
So how we can better operationalizeour care model and how we can also
incorporate the clinical team andthe care team in sales and marketing.
And I think this is something that'smissing and that's why I say a little bit
controversial because, you know, I knowback when we did sales and marketing when
I was at the community side, you know,you really didn't, you know, you, you,
(00:58):
you didn't show the care side as much.
You didn't involve asmuch as the clinical team.
And especially with this boomergeneration, we need to change our thinking
about this and our approach and themore we can involve the care team from
the beginning is going to help not onlyyour sales and marketing efforts, but
also making sure you don't have thathigh acuity right in your building.
(01:19):
So twofold there.
I also have found, luckily, where Iwas working before on the op side,
I had some really strong clinicalleaders and we were developing really
cool care plans and, and wellnessmodels, and that helped the marketing.
So there is a way that the more youcan partner and talk about these
things with your clinical team canreally help ease that nervousness, that
(01:40):
fear, especially that boomers have.
You know, the older boomersand the younger boomers, right?
They want that transparency.
They want to understand, great,this is all fancy and shiny.
But what does this look like laterdown the road when I may need care?
Because in their mind, right, they'rethinking of when they put their parents
in nursing homes and things like that.
They don't understand themodernization, the new care, the
(02:02):
new clinical side, how it is today.
So we need to get around that fear thatwe have of incorporating it into sales and
marketing and what does that look like?
So we're gonna dive in a little more,and I brought on an expert who I've
worked with for many, many years.
On the operations and thesales and marketing side.
So we have Andrew Gall, customersuccess manager from PointClickCare.
(02:24):
And I brought him on to really helpus dive in because he has experience
on the operation side, clinical side,executive director, marketing side.
It's good to kind of havesomeone who understands the whole
experience and, and how that canhelp you from an operation census
perspective and sales and marketing.
So Andrew, welcome to the show.
If you wouldn't mind introducingyourself to everybody.
Andrew (02:45):
Absolutely.
I'm so excited to be here.
I love a full circle moment.
I think we worked together six years ago,seven years ago, something like that.
And yeah, be back in the same place.
This is great.
I've been in the senior livingindustry for a little over 15
years in a lot of different ways.
I started out in sales and marketingback in the holiday retirement days.
(03:06):
And then I was an executivedirector for a long time.
I've worked with a fewdifferent operators.
Have been very fortunate to buildsome great relationships and I
have done everything from, you knowstabilized, longstanding communities
to new construction, new marketdevelopment, all those kind of things.
And now on the vendor side withPointClickCare and get to work with
(03:28):
organizations all over the country.
So yeah, it's an industry that'snear and dear to my heart and this
conversation is very near and dearto my heart, so I'm very excited.
Natasha (03:37):
Yeah, and I will say as we discussed, this is a little out of my
wheelhouse for all of the listeners today.
You know, everyone knows that I am.
Yes, I worked on the ops side, but I wasalways focused on sales and marketing.
Like I said, I was involved in the,you know, wellness program development
and things like that, but this isa lot outside of my wheelhouse.
So I'm really excited to dive in andtalk about this and have an expert
(03:58):
really explain more of these detailsthan I can, and I can give kind of
that sales and marketing approach side.
So if we can, if you can kick us off.
So when we first spoke a couple weeksago, we talked about this disconnect
between promises and reality.
And I think that's one of the biggestproblems in the beginning of sales.
When you're bringing in someoneand you're promising things that
(04:18):
maybe the sales teams aren'tunderstanding truly how it's done.
They're not under understanding the truelevel of care the resident may be needing.
And so there's this, this disconnect andthat I have seen that then the prospect
then moves in, becomes a resident, andthen you have quick turnover because
the reality is not what you're promised.
And that's what I mean in termsof sales and marketing, getting
behind it from the beginning.
(04:38):
So can you talk a little bit about, yeah,what you've seen there this disconnect
and what that struggle looks like.
Andrew (04:44):
I think the disconnect we're talking about and even just the point
of you saying like this is outsideof your wheelhouse, really highlights
the fact that there still exists,these really major silos in our space.
And historically in senior care, theclinical motivation for making a change
(05:06):
for mom or dad, grandma, grandpa, hasbeen the driving force and the last
10 years have really seen us shifttowards this hospitality mentality.
And a focus on amenitiesand culinary experience.
Natasha (05:19):
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (05:20):
Wellness, holistic programs, life enrichment and engagement, and all
of those things are super important.
I want to make sure that weare not minimizing any of that.
However, I think at the end of the day, weknow that the driving force behind making
a decision is often a clinical one, right?
There's a crisis or an incidentthat happens in the home, a
(05:44):
fall or a sickness, an illness.
Or even just the kind ofgradual aging process.
But that aging process includesclinical concerns, you know.
And things that have tobe treated medically.
And so that is,
Natasha (06:00):
We don't like to talk about it like in the sales process.
It's like don't talk about it.
And I'm like, that's their, that'ssometime many times what's driving
them initially to call you.
And maybe you don't talk aboutit the first minute, but it has
to be part of the conversation.
So, sorry.
I wanted to say that it's often,don't talk about it, don't go there.
And it's like we have to somewhat.
Andrew (06:18):
And, the danger in that is that we end up missing things that are
really integral to providing great care.
You know, and in the sales processwe like to focus on our beautiful
swimming pool and our awesome chef.
Natasha (06:31):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (06:32):
The amazing community activities that we do, right?
Because those are, those arethe things that our prospects
truly want to talk about, right?
They want, they also want to avoidthe conversation about the fact that
their aging and their medical needsare growing and, and, and so in
that process we further divide thatconversation between the sales decision
(06:55):
and those motivators and then the actualdelivery of care once they move in.
And you know, I'll tell you as anoperator, when it came time to have
those hard conversations about somebodymoving out of our community, whether
it be for satisfaction or level ofcare, rarely did those conversations
center on what was on the menu.
Right.
(07:16):
And that can drive somedissatisfaction for sure.
But ultimately a lot of thosethings come down to care or the
lack of, you know, service deliveryfailures in the care environment.
So I think it's important that ourindustry is moving away from the
you know, tiled floors and, youknow, bleach smell, nursing home
(07:37):
environment like that needs to happen.
And that's important froma dignity standpoint and a
quality of life standpoint.
But moving so far away that welose sight of how our residents
are cared for and how we meet theirneeds, I think can be dangerous.
And ultimately from an operatorstandpoint is gonna affect length
of stay, which affects our revenue.
It affects all of the thingswe need to do our jobs.
(07:58):
So.
Natasha (07:59):
Yeah, I agree.
And that was something I broughtup on the episode last month.
We, when we were talking about theboomers in the future and how, how much
focus there is on the amenities at thecommunity and the concierge services and
restaurants and all those things, andthat needs to happen, like you're saying.
That's great.
That's exciting for this industry.
But you're right that level of focus andmodernization, whatever it is, focusing
(08:23):
on specific you know, organizational waysof, of improving that is not being, you
know, delivered as well on the care side.
As well as the sales side.
You know, I talked about that whenI was talking to Kelly Myers too,
is how much marketing has evolvedand sales, the sales team and that
structure has really slowed too.
So this is kind of that same ideafrom the care perspective is making
(08:44):
sure you are also thinking ahead.
It's not just your salesand marketing team.
How is, how is the care, clinicalmodel involved in that process?
So I'm gonna push it back to youon then, what does that look like?
What do they need to do?
What does that, what does that mean froman operator who's listening to this?
Andrew (09:01):
So I think there's a couple of things we need to be thinking about.
I am having a lot of conversationswith clients and industry
partners right now around theoperationalization of care and wellness.
And how we integrate the coordinationof services in our day-to-day activity.
We're a really reactionary industryand we have been for a long time,
(09:25):
and unfortunately that's drivenby the nature of what we do.
We're not a skilled environment, we'renot an acute care environment where we
have resources clinically, operationally,to be very aggressive in the treatment of
illness or injury, and that's by design.
(09:45):
And I don't think that that should change.
Unfortunately, that often puts us inthe position as an operator that when
the crisis occurs, we kind of have togo five alarm fire to not only protect
the wellness and longevity of ourresident, but to protect our business.
There's risk associated with potentiallitigation and things like that.
(10:05):
And you know, then just the potentialfor a resident moving out to a
higher care environment or perceiveddissatisfaction because a lack
of care in our own environment.
Right?
So by operationalizing that wellnessapproach, the goal would be that we can
be proactive in the care of our residentsand avoid some of those five alarm fires.
Natasha (10:28):
Can you explain a little bit what, what that means?
Like, for someone like me, it'squite, it's kind of fun that I'm
sort of not, not my wheelhouse.
So kind of playing, you know, outsidewhat you know, what does that mean
in terms of operationalizing care?
And sorry if I'm, I'm, I'm switchingsubjects here, but can you talk
like, what does that mean exactly?
Andrew (10:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I think there needs to be atop down approach into how care
and wellness get integrated in theday-to-day of our residents lives.
Again, we come back to these competingpriorities of hospitality and kind of that
holistic wellness approach that reallywants to keep the clinical component
(11:06):
of what we do behind closed doors.
When in fact, I think that if we broughta hospitality mindset to care, we could
really start to integrate the clinicalside of what we do into everyday life.
The fact of the matter is our residentsare gonna continue to get older.
Their needs are going to continue toincrease, and I think we best protect
(11:26):
their quality of life, not by hiding fromtheir increased clinical needs, but by
finding ways to integrate the clinicalservice into the parts of life that they
enjoy and look forward to every day.
Into our culinary programs, intoour life enrichment programs,
into all of those things.
This means a increased level of awarenessand conversation from all of the
(11:50):
stakeholders at the community level.
Oftentimes we leave these clinicalconversations to our wellness
directors and just kind ofpretend like the nurse has got it.
Let's focus on the fun stuff.
When, how much more powerful is thatclinical and wellness engagement?
If we empower our housekeepers and ourculinary servers and dining room staff
(12:13):
and our life enrichment team membersto be aware of changes in needs and
condition and you know, just that relianceon the care that they received from us.
So that when things change, when Mrs.Gall suddenly is less engaged in the
exercise programs that she loves everyday, or we notice that she's sending more
(12:35):
food back at the end of meals than sheusually does, normally cleans her plate,
and now only half of it is finished.
Somebody is speaking up in thosestandup meetings, in those all
staff meetings to say like, Hey, I'mnoticing something's changing here.
That's information that empowers ouroperational teams to say, let's get
involved before something bad happens.
(12:57):
Right.
And the trickle down effect thenis that rather than responding to
a crisis that sees Mrs. Gall in ahospital or a skilled nursing stay
for an extended period of time.
We get to intervene with therapy or apractitioner, an amazing third party
partner, and that crisis never occurs.
From a sales and marketing standpoint,if we want to tie this up in a really
(13:21):
pretty bow, it increases our lengthof stay, which helps us stabilize
our community and our census faster.
But it also starts to createsome actual data that our
salespeople can go to market with.
When we say we have the best care in town.
Natasha (13:35):
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (13:35):
We now are gonna have data that supports that, right?
That our residents go to thehospital 30, 40% fewer times than our
competitors, or than they did a year ago.
And I think that that kind of datareally drives buying decisions.
I know as a salesperson it'sreally empowering to be able to
have the facts and figures to backup those marketing claims, right?
(13:58):
So.
There's a lot of ripple effect to some,I think really small changes and that
effort to cross the bridge between thesilos that happen in our communities.
Natasha (14:11):
Yeah.
And that education, like you're saying,cross department, especially to the
sales team and even the marketingteam, like for as I, when I worked
on the agency side too, just gettinga little more insight into that.
It's really important, like you'resaying and being able to quantify.
So that was one of the questions I wasgonna ask is in terms of quantifying.
So, so you're saying, and I want to takea step back a little bit in terms of this,
(14:35):
this operationalized care value-basedcare model you're talking about.
There obviously is a, a technologicalcomponent to that, right?
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Because that's, I, I assume is thenhow we can be more proactive, how
we can then quantify these results.
Can you talk a little bitbit about that and technology
and how that's incorporated?
Andrew (14:55):
Sure thing.
I want to take a step back just toset the stage a little bit because
you did mention value-based care.
And all of this I thinkis great in concept.
I think it's really important thatour industry recognizes that by the
year 2030, this is not going to be aninteresting approach to our business.
It's going to be a mandate from agovernmental and payer standpoint, right.
(15:18):
By the year 2030 Medicare is requiringthat senior care operators be involved
in some level of accountable care model.
And what that really boils down tois that currently if we do our jobs
really well, our residents stay outof the hospital, which decreases
their dependence on a Medicare spend.
(15:40):
And those savings are reflectedright now not to the senior living
operators, whether it be in theassisted living environment or
the skilled nursing environment.
Those savings are really representedon the payer side and value-based
care gives us the chance toparticipate in those savings.
Now, all of the participation in thoseprograms is dependent on outcomes, right?
(16:04):
And we're specifically looking at thingslike hospital stays, emergency room
visits, dependence on Medicare and thosekind of payers for significant surgeries,
interventions, things like that.
And in truth, Natasha, like value-basedcare is a financial payment model.
(16:24):
The trickle down effect to our businessis in outcomes, reputation, length of
stay, resident happiness and satisfaction.
And I think that that's where our industryon the assisted living, independent
living, memory care side of thingscan really start to win right away.
The disconnect between what we do andthat Medicare insurance payer side of
(16:47):
things can feel like a big river to cross.
And, and I think that's fair.
But the changes that we make to ourbusiness right now in an effort to
support a value-based care model aregonna have an immediate impact on our
bottom line in the form of increasedlength of stay, better reputation for
our marketing and sales teams to take outinto the market, those kind of things.
(17:08):
So I think it's really important tohave that context to then discuss
the technology side of things.
Natasha (17:15):
So I want to real quick touch on what you just mentioned.
So in terms of reputation, yeah.
So you know, it's funny, a lot oftimes sales and marketing will say,
well, care isn't the main focus.
However, when I, I'm the one that'sdoing that reputation management,
I'm looking at those reviews.
It's typically about thecare, like you're saying.
And so if we can have some of those,I don't want to call them buzzwords
'cause they're true, but when you'retalking to a boomer generation about
(17:37):
value-based care, proactive modeling,longer length of stay, not in the
hospitals, that's what they want to hear.
And that's what they want tosee in your reviews and your
reputation in the market too.
So this just, it's a full circle.
Andrew (17:49):
It really is.
Natasha (17:50):
Not only is your satisfaction in your residents healthier they're happier,
but then as it trickles out to themarket and the marketing and sales side,
it's just positive win on both sides.
So I just wanted to to to say that realso you can get into the technology side.
Andrew (18:02):
Yeah,
Because like, you know, and I don'twant to be crass, but you'd never see
a headline about a resident who didn'tenjoy what was on the menu for dinner.
Right.
Nobody takes that to court.
And those are the things that areoften the death blow for a community.
And it, and it boils back to good care.
And so much of what we see in thoseservice deliveries that turn into
(18:24):
really tragic circumstances is small,operationalized, you know, just
service processes and workflows thatgot missed or degraded over time and
turned into a really bad situation.
And, you know, and I want to saylike, I firmly believe that 99.9% of
(18:44):
the people that work in this industrycare deeply about their residents and
want to see amazing care delivered.
It's, it's, it's equipping really amazingpeople with the tools and the workflows
that they need to do it consistently.
Natasha (18:56):
Exactly, and that's where I'm like, okay, so then
how, how do we help them?
How do they do this?
Because if it's a win-win on both sides,this is what boomers are looking for.
They want to, they wantto hear those results.
How do we then, how do theseoperators then change their model?
Andrew (19:12):
I have been in the industry long enough to remember charting on
paper, having rooms full of foldersand binders and you know, paper
charts, medications, the whole thing.
And the advent of the electronicrecord has really kind of turned all
of that on its head and in a good way.
I think it can be a two-sidedcoin because technology gives us
(19:33):
the ability to track everything.
And when there is a situation witha surveyor or a complaint, having
everything available can, you know,it can be scary as an operator.
And there's some great strategies forprotecting yourself and, you know, making
sure that there's good record maintenance.
But the flip side of the coin is thatfrom a technology standpoint, we can
(19:56):
track everything, which means that wecan keep really good records of changes
that our residents experience over time.
And those kind of changesguide us towards trends.
They guide us towards data thathelps us make really informed
decisions about how we manage ourbusiness and how we manage care.
I, you know, I don't want to get on acompany soapbox here, but I think one of
(20:19):
the things that PointClickCare has reallyinvested in is underlining the foundation
of a resident record that reflectsall of the things that are important.
Who the resident is, what theirdiagnosis are, what kind of medications
they're taking with the data around theday-to-day services that we provide.
And these, this is the kind ofinformation that I love as an operator,
(20:42):
is that when you know Mrs. Drakemoves into my community, we sit and
we do a really thorough assessmentof the kind of care that she needs.
We make some promises, quite franklyto Mrs. Drake and to her family about
how that care is gonna be deliveredand what she should expect from us.
And then off we go.
The aging process by its nature presentsus with a problem that those needs are
(21:07):
going to change over time, and sometimesthe window of change is long and expected
and progresses in a very natural way.
Oftentimes, I think we find in oursenior living environments, those
changes happen faster than we expected.
There's a lot of factors that are involvedwith that and I think often we don't give
enough credit to the turbulent natureof moving out of the home that I've
(21:32):
been in for 30 years into a group livingenvironment with a bunch of strangers
in a dining room I am not familiar with.
And those kind of factors are going toexpedite the aging process, quite frankly.
They often do.
We're not that, that's not news to us.
Natasha (21:51):
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (21:52):
Having a technological tool that allows you to approach your care for that
resident every day with a really definedset of the promises that were made.
And then a tracking system thatallows you to document the things
that are happening outside of thosepromises gives us a really complete
picture of Mrs. Drake every day.
(22:15):
And when we talk about operationalizingcare, that technology empowers the
conversations that happen with ourcommunity leaders to say, we know
the baseline that we established forMrs. Drake when she moved in, and
now we can really clearly see what'shappening away from that baseline.
(22:35):
As an operator who has limitedability to provide care based on
regulatory requirements and whatI'm allowed to do under my license,
what assisted living even allows.
Being able to see that picture of changesin real time gives me the data that I
need to pull in those third party partnersthat are experts and licensed to provide
(22:57):
that care over and above what I cando in my assisted living environment.
And that's where we getto be really proactive.
Natasha (23:04):
Yeah.
Andrew (23:04):
other part of this conversation boils down to a financial one.
Right?
And as executive directors,wellness directors.
We have all been in that situationwhere we had to call a family in and
say, when you first moved into ourcommunity, we promised you that your
mom's care was gonna cost $300 a monthand now it is going to cost $500 a
(23:27):
month or a thousand dollars a month.
And for a long time, thoseconversations, I know for me as an
operator, I just dreaded them becauseI knew there was gonna be pushback.
I knew the accusations of nickeland diming were going to come and.
For a long time we've reallykind of had to say like, you
gotta take my word for it.
(23:47):
Like, I see your mom every dayand it turns into this, like
you're on that side of the table.
I'm on this side of the table,and we're negotiating now over
the wellness of your mother.
And like that's gross.
Natasha (23:59):
Yeah.
Andrew (24:00):
With the documentation that technology allows us to do now.
I instead get to sit on the same side ofthe table with the Drake family and say,
over the last 30 days we have seen thesechanges happen away from the baseline that
we agreed on when your mom moved in here.
And because of those changes,we're concerned about some
(24:23):
future danger for your mom.
And so we would like to partner withyou to make some changes in her care.
There is a difference in costassociated with that, and that cost
helps us ensure that the resources areavailable so that your mom stays safe.
That conversation iscompletely different, Natasha.
Now we're partners in this and,and as a family member, I can
Natasha (24:47):
say, that was
Andrew (24:47):
beautiful.
Yeah, right.
Like,
Natasha (24:48):
way to say that to the family.
It's
Andrew (24:51):
and I think it's so much fun because now fun is the
wrong word, but it's, it's very,it's a very engaged process.
Natasha (24:58):
You're being proactive and you care.
You're truly caring about their care.
Andrew (25:02):
And if I'm a family member, you're showing me documentation of all
of the ways that you've engaged withmy loved one in the last 30 days or 60
days, and that reinforces the value ofthe decision that I made when I moved in.
So when I talk about equipping oursales and marketing directors to go
out into the marketplace and say,Hey, we have the best care in town.
(25:22):
This is something thatthey can carry with them.
This is an actual tool intheir toolbox to say we are,
we're gonna document that care.
We're going to, you know it, it'snot just about the caregiver going
into that apartment every day.
It's about this black and whitepicture of the changes in your mom.
There's another factor that I thinkabout a lot too that happens in
(25:43):
this level of care conversation.
Natasha (25:45):
Hmm.
Andrew (25:45):
Oftentimes, our family members, they don't see their
loved one as much as we do.
Right?
Not even oftentimes.
Almost always.
Natasha (25:52):
Or, and, and they have a different perception.
too.
Andrew (25:55):
And so when we approach this level of care conversation that says, Hey, your
mom is getting older and sicker, we're,there's an implication of guilt that
like we know things about the changesin your mother that you don't know.
Natasha (26:07):
Right.
Andrew (26:07):
and that guilt can is crushing to, you know, a to a family member.
This process in this conversationengages them in those changes, and
I think it reinforces the trustthat they put us put in us when they
first made that buying decision.
It takes that guilt out of the equation.
(26:29):
We're doing exactly what you askedus to do and we're documenting it
so that you can hold us accountable.
Right and putting that accountabilityon ourselves that operate as operators.
It really frees that family memberfrom that guilt of maybe the lack
of awareness or, or the differentperspective that, you know, that's
associated with with that situation.
(26:51):
So technology is the key to all of this.
And, and I think that it hasreally far reaching implications.
Natasha (26:58):
Well, and, and it's crazy because, gosh, the past, like five
or six, maybe all the episodes I'vehad on the podcast, technology has
grown, booming in incredible rates.
You know, AI and everything Interms of marketing and sales.
Why are we not okay with thatfrom a clinical perspective?
You know, I mean, we have to be,and we, and, and everything we
(27:18):
do nowadays has to be quantified.
You know, everything.
And we, and we do that.
We ba everything you doin marketing, every time I
recommend something, quantify it.
Show me, give me data, you know,so we have all of that on the,
on the sales and marketing side.
More so on the marketing side, Iwould say, and digital, but you're
right, from a clinical perspective,it helps you to be proactive.
Just like we're trying to be proactivefrom the sales and marketing side.
(27:38):
It's helping you be proactiveon the clinical side.
So I agree.
I mean, we gotta get behind that.
Andrew (27:44):
As we talk about removing silos, I think this is another place
where technology can really shine.
PointClickCare has really ledthe market in this effort.
That's not to say other EHRs don't,but I think that PCC has really set
the standard where we can integratewith other pieces of the tech stack.
So operators are investing in reallyimportant tools like Life Loop and
(28:05):
Meal Suite, and you know, Apploi forhiring and team member engagement.
And when you select an EHR partner,that works very hard at integrating with
those other pieces of your tech stack.
So the information that lives in thatclinical service delivery doesn't live
on an island, but you get this reallyclear data picture of how the service
(28:29):
delivery from the clinical standpointoverlaps with the wellness program that
your life enrichment team is engagingin with that culinary program that
your dining team is really invested in.
And now you start to get this reallybig data-driven picture of the
life that your resident is living.
That only further educates youroperational team to make really
(28:52):
proactive decisions for your resident.
And it only further educatesyour family members on how
you're keeping your promises.
So I think it's really importantwhen choosing that technology
partner that you're looking at theways in which they can connect with
the various parts of your business.
If we're working hard to buildbridges between our departments from
(29:15):
a person to person standpoint, weshould also be removing those silos
on the technology side of things.
So that we have a really finely tunedmachine that gives us the best opportunity
to be proactive in our resident care.
Natasha (29:29):
Yeah.
And I think, you know, just hearingyou say this, just from a, my sales
cap comes on, I'm thinking of howmuch more educated I would now feel.
How much more clinicalbased knowledge can I share?
As, and again, like, I'm gonna say itagain, but with this new generation
saying what you just said in termsof it all linking together, it's
proactive, it's operationalized.
(29:50):
We have, we can quantify it, likethat's the stuff they want to hear.
Because that's what thisgeneration's used to.
So we can't just say, oh, I promiseyou, we'll give you good care.
No, we can actually quantify that.
We can show what we track it.
All of this integrates so that thecare level changes, then the wellness
programs change and the services change.
The dining's going to have tochange and it's all proactive
and works together ahead of time.
(30:11):
So we don't have problems.
That just gives, that just fuelsthe sales team to have that
information and to be able to talkabout that in the sales process.
Andrew (30:17):
I would love to, you know, see the faces of sales directors who might
be listening to this right now, whoare going into hospitals and skilled
nursing communities looking to buildreferral driven relationships and trying
to build those relationships based on amarketing pitch, centered on amenities
and hospitality because our case managersin those acute driven environments
(30:42):
don't care if we have a pool and theydon't care how good our dining is,
they'll take the brochure and they'lltell us how pretty it is, and they'll
definitely come to our happy hours.
But if we are able to walk intothose skilled and acute environments
and say, Hey, I can reduce yourrehospitalizations by 30% in the next
60 days, and I have data to show thatmy residents are going to the hospital
(31:03):
30% less than they were 60 days ago.
That rings a bell for a case manager thatrings a bell for a discharge planner.
And I think there's a lot of timeswhere our sales directors feel very
frustrated that they go in, they're,they're tasked by a regional leadership,
go build referrals at the hospital, goget referrals from the skilled nursing
(31:25):
environment, and they start to get askedquestions around clinical outcomes.
And what do they have to say?
Well, I need to introduce you to my nurse.
Natasha (31:32):
Yep.
They're not equipped with theright terminology, the right data.
They don't have, they don'thave anything to share or give.
I know I've been in that situation.
Yes.
Andrew (31:40):
Then we're asking our wellness directors to become salespeople when
they get introduced at a happy hour.
Hey, you know, wellness director,go get me five referrals.
They, they're, that's not their job,and they're not equipped for that.
So I think like it's a really simpleswitch to flip of equipping our
salespeople with some really accessibledata that says I can make a difference
(32:02):
in your business, hospital partner.
I can make a difference in yourbusiness, skilled nursing partner.
And that's gonna make that personpick up the phone far more than,
you know, what we've got on ouractivity calendar that week.
Natasha (32:14):
Yeah.
And it, and it also helps not only fromthe sales and marketing perspective,
but also the corporate office too,can better quantify those results,
can quantify their profits, whateverit needs to be nonprofit profit.
But it, it, it goes on both sides.
So yeah.
Andrew (32:25):
Our corporate team members that are talking to their investors are focused
on census and length of stay, right?
Like those are the KPIs that arereally driving those conversations,
especially as we're lookingfor new capital in the market.
Especially as we're looking forgrowth from a M&A standpoint.
We need to be able to demonstrate,hey, we're bringing residents
in and we're keeping them andoperationalizing our wellness.
(32:48):
To a point where our operators can bereally proactive in resident care is
gonna be the number one driver for that.
So, you know, when we talk about theripple effect I think it's more of
a trickle up than a trickle down.
Because this really startsat the community level.
But this has impacts all theway up to the C-Suite for sure.
Natasha (33:04):
Yeah.
Is there anything more before we, weclose that I didn't touch on or I didn't
ask that we, we want to dive into?
Andrew (33:12):
No, I think I would really encourage my operators who are
listening today to get rid of thatanxiety around clinical conversations.
And not just by, you know, a mantra thatyou look at yourself in the mirror and
say, don't be scared of clinical today.
But you've got access to thedata in your communities.
You know, and I want you to feel reallyempowered to use it in a meaningful way.
(33:35):
And if it's not great today, if youlook at the data and it's scary, we're
not happy with the numbers, get engagedwith your partners from a technology
standpoint to understand why itisn't good, what's happening, and get
really strategic about how to fix it.
My favorite conversations with myclients are around the workflows that
(33:56):
drive the utilization of the technologyin ways that support our frontline
team members, our wellness directors.
Because those changes equate toactual differences in resident care.
They equate to a more educatedteam member who feels empowered to
speak up in a standup meeting whensomething has changed with Mrs. Gall.
(34:19):
And they equate to really data-drivendiscussions in at-risk meetings and
department head meetings about thelongevity of our residents, you know,
and about their wellness picture.
So I would just encourage you,like, don't be scared of it.
Data can feel scary.
Engage with your partners tomake sure that you understand it
and understand how to action it.
And then I would say if youdon't feel like you've got a good
(34:42):
technology partner for that right now.
We would love to engage with you.
You know, we would love to talkthrough what impacts can be made
on your business and ultimatelyon the care of your residents
and, and how we can help support.
Natasha (34:55):
That's awesome.
Thank you so much for hopping on today.
You know, it was something like Isaid really out of my wheelhouse.
But man, I'm, I'm, I'm ready.
Like I'm, from a sales and marketingperspective, I now feel more equipped
in order to market this properly.
And I'm, I've got these like things goingon in my head of how we can get this on
the website, things we can do in termsof blogs and education and reputation.
(35:18):
So I'm, I'm psyched about it.
So thank you.
Thank you so much for joining today.
Are there any other, is there anylast key takeaway that you want like
a a for sales and maybe for sales andmarketing directors specifically too,
as most of the listeners are, youknow, any key takeaway you want them to
remember specifically from this episode.
Andrew (35:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
I've been doing a little bit ofcontent myself and one of the things
that we're talking about right nowis how the sales team can engage that
clinical partner in the community.
And it can be difficult to pull thatwellness director away from resident care.
I think there's a ton of valuein introducing that clinical
relationship before the residentmakes a buying decision.
(35:56):
Before they make that move indecision for a couple of reasons.
We really want to be strategic aboutthe acuity in our communities, right?
And making sure that we have the rightresidents and that we are equipped to
provide the right kind of care and gettingthat clinical eye and clinical perspective
on a potential new resident beforethe move in helps us avoid surprises.
It helps us avoid, you knowthe unexpected care needs.
(36:19):
But it also starts to underpin thevalue of the promises that we're
making throughout that buying decision.
And we don't want the first time ourwellness director meets Mrs. Gall to be
when she comes through the front door.
Because now, now we're set upright from the beginning of that
relationship to be reactionary.
Versus if we've had theseconversations, we've established the
(36:40):
expectations beforehand, our teamfeels ready, our team feels prepared.
From a clinical standpoint, we're alreadyengaging with the third party partner
relationships that might be neededto provide the right type of care.
So I would tell your sales directors,like if you're not sitting down with
your wellness director every singleday to go over your hot leads or your,
(37:01):
you know, potential move-in board andto get out and do those home visits.
I'm a big home visit guy.
Go see that potential new resident intheir current environment to get a real
good picture of what's actually going on.
Start doing that and, and, and leveragethat executive director leadership as
well to, you know, kind of they shouldreally be quarterbacking the whole thing.
And, you know, sometimes thoseperspectives can be at odds where
(37:24):
the wellness director says, oh man,I don't know if this is a good fit.
And the sales director is feelingthat pressure to, you know push
occupancy and fill an apartment.
That executive director needs tobe the leader in the conversation
and really quarterback to say like,what's the best fit for our community?
Can we effectively deliver onthe promises that are being
made from a sales standpoint?
Does my clinical team havethe resources that it needs
(37:47):
to execute on those promises?
And I think like if I'm, if I'm sendinga message to a sales director today,
I'm saying like, Hey, I would get reallyloud about the need for that support and
really engaged in with your leadership.
And tell 'em like, Hey,this is what I need guys.
Ultimately you're gonna come up witha really diverse and collaborative
product to take to market.
Natasha (38:09):
Yeah, let's take away that fear.
Let's let the prospect feel excited aboutmoving because of all of the services
and hospitality and concierge, but feelconfident in the transparency of the care
they're gonna get and that proactive care.
I mean, that's, that's an exciting future.
And so I hope everyone gets behind that.
If anyone has any questions, ofcourse, please reach out to Andrew
(38:31):
or myself and I'll connect you withAndrew to learn more about this
because I think it is the future.
It's really exciting.
We need to get behind it.
Thank you Andrew somuch for being on today.
Andrew (38:40):
Been lot of fun.
Natasha (38:41):
And thank you for watching another episode of
The Drake Insights Podcast.
I look forward to seeing you next time.
Bye.
This is the Drake Insights Podcast,your weekly dose of cutting edge
senior living marketing insights.
Join me, your host, Natasha Drake for boldideas, proven strategies, and inspiring
stories straight from the experts.
Tune in and let's conquer the seniorliving marketing landscape together.
Natasha (00:17):
Hi guys.
Welcome back to another episodeof The Drake Insights Podcast.
I'm your host, NatashaDrake from Drake Strategic.
Let's get started.
So on today's episode, we're gonnakind of veer away from what we've
been talking about recently and it'sa little bit of a controversial topic.
So we're gonna be talking aboutthe clinical side of operations
(00:37):
and sales and marketing.
So how we can better operationalizeour care model and how we can also
incorporate the clinical team andthe care team in sales and marketing.
And I think this is something that'smissing and that's why I say a little bit
controversial because, you know, I knowback when we did sales and marketing when
I was at the community side, you know,you really didn't, you know, you, you,
(00:58):
you didn't show the care side as much.
You didn't involve asmuch as the clinical team.
And especially with this boomergeneration, we need to change our thinking
about this and our approach and themore we can involve the care team from
the beginning is going to help not onlyyour sales and marketing efforts, but
also making sure you don't have thathigh acuity right in your building.
(01:19):
So twofold there.
I also have found, luckily, where Iwas working before on the op side,
I had some really strong clinicalleaders and we were developing really
cool care plans and, and wellnessmodels, and that helped the marketing.
So there is a way that the more youcan partner and talk about these
things with your clinical team canreally help ease that nervousness, that
(01:40):
fear, especially that boomers have.
You know, the older boomersand the younger boomers, right?
They want that transparency.
They want to understand, great,this is all fancy and shiny.
But what does this look like laterdown the road when I may need care?
Because in their mind, right, they'rethinking of when they put their parents
in nursing homes and things like that.
They don't understand themodernization, the new care, the
(02:02):
new clinical side, how it is today.
So we need to get around that fear thatwe have of incorporating it into sales and
marketing and what does that look like?
So we're gonna dive in a little more,and I brought on an expert who I've
worked with for many, many years.
On the operations and thesales and marketing side.
So we have Andrew Gall, customersuccess manager from PointClickCare.
(02:24):
And I brought him on to really helpus dive in because he has experience
on the operation side, clinical side,executive director, marketing side.
It's good to kind of havesomeone who understands the whole
experience and, and how that canhelp you from an operation census
perspective and sales and marketing.
So Andrew, welcome to the show.
If you wouldn't mind introducingyourself to everybody.
Andrew (02:45):
Absolutely.
I'm so excited to be here.
I love a full circle moment.
I think we worked together six years ago,seven years ago, something like that.
And yeah, be back in the same place.
This is great.
I've been in the senior livingindustry for a little over 15
years in a lot of different ways.
I started out in sales and marketingback in the holiday retirement days.
(03:06):
And then I was an executivedirector for a long time.
I've worked with a fewdifferent operators.
Have been very fortunate to buildsome great relationships and I
have done everything from, you knowstabilized, longstanding communities
to new construction, new marketdevelopment, all those kind of things.
And now on the vendor side withPointClickCare and get to work with
(03:28):
organizations all over the country.
So yeah, it's an industry that'snear and dear to my heart and this
conversation is very near and dearto my heart, so I'm very excited.
Natasha (03:37):
Yeah, and I will say as we discussed, this is a little out of my
wheelhouse for all of the listeners today.
You know, everyone knows that I am.
Yes, I worked on the ops side, but I wasalways focused on sales and marketing.
Like I said, I was involved in the,you know, wellness program development
and things like that, but this isa lot outside of my wheelhouse.
So I'm really excited to dive in andtalk about this and have an expert
(03:58):
really explain more of these detailsthan I can, and I can give kind of
that sales and marketing approach side.
So if we can, if you can kick us off.
So when we first spoke a couple weeksago, we talked about this disconnect
between promises and reality.
And I think that's one of the biggestproblems in the beginning of sales.
When you're bringing in someoneand you're promising things that
(04:18):
maybe the sales teams aren'tunderstanding truly how it's done.
They're not under understanding the truelevel of care the resident may be needing.
And so there's this, this disconnect andthat I have seen that then the prospect
then moves in, becomes a resident, andthen you have quick turnover because
the reality is not what you're promised.
And that's what I mean in termsof sales and marketing, getting
behind it from the beginning.
(04:38):
So can you talk a little bit about, yeah,what you've seen there this disconnect
and what that struggle looks like.
Andrew (04:44):
I think the disconnect we're talking about and even just the point
of you saying like this is outsideof your wheelhouse, really highlights
the fact that there still exists,these really major silos in our space.
And historically in senior care, theclinical motivation for making a change
(05:06):
for mom or dad, grandma, grandpa, hasbeen the driving force and the last
10 years have really seen us shifttowards this hospitality mentality.
And a focus on amenitiesand culinary experience.
Natasha (05:19):
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (05:20):
Wellness, holistic programs, life enrichment and engagement, and all
of those things are super important.
I want to make sure that weare not minimizing any of that.
However, I think at the end of the day, weknow that the driving force behind making
a decision is often a clinical one, right?
There's a crisis or an incidentthat happens in the home, a
(05:44):
fall or a sickness, an illness.
Or even just the kind ofgradual aging process.
But that aging process includesclinical concerns, you know.
And things that have tobe treated medically.
And so that is,
Natasha (06:00):
We don't like to talk about it like in the sales process.
It's like don't talk about it.
And I'm like, that's their, that'ssometime many times what's driving
them initially to call you.
And maybe you don't talk aboutit the first minute, but it has
to be part of the conversation.
So, sorry.
I wanted to say that it's often,don't talk about it, don't go there.
And it's like we have to somewhat.
Andrew (06:18):
And, the danger in that is that we end up missing things that are
really integral to providing great care.
You know, and in the sales processwe like to focus on our beautiful
swimming pool and our awesome chef.
Natasha (06:31):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (06:32):
The amazing community activities that we do, right?
Because those are, those arethe things that our prospects
truly want to talk about, right?
They want, they also want to avoidthe conversation about the fact that
their aging and their medical needsare growing and, and, and so in
that process we further divide thatconversation between the sales decision
(06:55):
and those motivators and then the actualdelivery of care once they move in.
And you know, I'll tell you as anoperator, when it came time to have
those hard conversations about somebodymoving out of our community, whether
it be for satisfaction or level ofcare, rarely did those conversations
center on what was on the menu.
Right.
(07:16):
And that can drive somedissatisfaction for sure.
But ultimately a lot of thosethings come down to care or the
lack of, you know, service deliveryfailures in the care environment.
So I think it's important that ourindustry is moving away from the
you know, tiled floors and, youknow, bleach smell, nursing home
(07:37):
environment like that needs to happen.
And that's important froma dignity standpoint and a
quality of life standpoint.
But moving so far away that welose sight of how our residents
are cared for and how we meet theirneeds, I think can be dangerous.
And ultimately from an operatorstandpoint is gonna affect length
of stay, which affects our revenue.
It affects all of the thingswe need to do our jobs.
(07:58):
So.
Natasha (07:59):
Yeah, I agree.
And that was something I broughtup on the episode last month.
We, when we were talking about theboomers in the future and how, how much
focus there is on the amenities at thecommunity and the concierge services and
restaurants and all those things, andthat needs to happen, like you're saying.
That's great.
That's exciting for this industry.
But you're right that level of focus andmodernization, whatever it is, focusing
(08:23):
on specific you know, organizational waysof, of improving that is not being, you
know, delivered as well on the care side.
As well as the sales side.
You know, I talked about that whenI was talking to Kelly Myers too,
is how much marketing has evolvedand sales, the sales team and that
structure has really slowed too.
So this is kind of that same ideafrom the care perspective is making
(08:44):
sure you are also thinking ahead.
It's not just your salesand marketing team.
How is, how is the care, clinicalmodel involved in that process?
So I'm gonna push it back to youon then, what does that look like?
What do they need to do?
What does that, what does that mean froman operator who's listening to this?
Andrew (09:01):
So I think there's a couple of things we need to be thinking about.
I am having a lot of conversationswith clients and industry
partners right now around theoperationalization of care and wellness.
And how we integrate the coordinationof services in our day-to-day activity.
We're a really reactionary industryand we have been for a long time,
(09:25):
and unfortunately that's drivenby the nature of what we do.
We're not a skilled environment, we'renot an acute care environment where we
have resources clinically, operationally,to be very aggressive in the treatment of
illness or injury, and that's by design.
(09:45):
And I don't think that that should change.
Unfortunately, that often puts us inthe position as an operator that when
the crisis occurs, we kind of have togo five alarm fire to not only protect
the wellness and longevity of ourresident, but to protect our business.
There's risk associated with potentiallitigation and things like that.
(10:05):
And you know, then just the potentialfor a resident moving out to a
higher care environment or perceiveddissatisfaction because a lack
of care in our own environment.
Right?
So by operationalizing that wellnessapproach, the goal would be that we can
be proactive in the care of our residentsand avoid some of those five alarm fires.
Natasha (10:28):
Can you explain a little bit what, what that means?
Like, for someone like me, it'squite, it's kind of fun that I'm
sort of not, not my wheelhouse.
So kind of playing, you know, outsidewhat you know, what does that mean
in terms of operationalizing care?
And sorry if I'm, I'm, I'm switchingsubjects here, but can you talk
like, what does that mean exactly?
Andrew (10:44):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I think there needs to be atop down approach into how care
and wellness get integrated in theday-to-day of our residents lives.
Again, we come back to these competingpriorities of hospitality and kind of that
holistic wellness approach that reallywants to keep the clinical component
(11:06):
of what we do behind closed doors.
When in fact, I think that if we broughta hospitality mindset to care, we could
really start to integrate the clinicalside of what we do into everyday life.
The fact of the matter is our residentsare gonna continue to get older.
Their needs are going to continue toincrease, and I think we best protect
(11:26):
their quality of life, not by hiding fromtheir increased clinical needs, but by
finding ways to integrate the clinicalservice into the parts of life that they
enjoy and look forward to every day.
Into our culinary programs, intoour life enrichment programs,
into all of those things.
This means a increased level of awarenessand conversation from all of the
(11:50):
stakeholders at the community level.
Oftentimes we leave these clinicalconversations to our wellness
directors and just kind ofpretend like the nurse has got it.
Let's focus on the fun stuff.
When, how much more powerful is thatclinical and wellness engagement?
If we empower our housekeepers and ourculinary servers and dining room staff
(12:13):
and our life enrichment team membersto be aware of changes in needs and
condition and you know, just that relianceon the care that they received from us.
So that when things change, when Mrs.Gall suddenly is less engaged in the
exercise programs that she loves everyday, or we notice that she's sending more
(12:35):
food back at the end of meals than sheusually does, normally cleans her plate,
and now only half of it is finished.
Somebody is speaking up in thosestandup meetings, in those all
staff meetings to say like, Hey, I'mnoticing something's changing here.
That's information that empowers ouroperational teams to say, let's get
involved before something bad happens.
(12:57):
Right.
And the trickle down effect thenis that rather than responding to
a crisis that sees Mrs. Gall in ahospital or a skilled nursing stay
for an extended period of time.
We get to intervene with therapy or apractitioner, an amazing third party
partner, and that crisis never occurs.
From a sales and marketing standpoint,if we want to tie this up in a really
(13:21):
pretty bow, it increases our lengthof stay, which helps us stabilize
our community and our census faster.
But it also starts to createsome actual data that our
salespeople can go to market with.
When we say we have the best care in town.
Natasha (13:35):
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (13:35):
We now are gonna have data that supports that, right?
That our residents go to thehospital 30, 40% fewer times than our
competitors, or than they did a year ago.
And I think that that kind of datareally drives buying decisions.
I know as a salesperson it'sreally empowering to be able to
have the facts and figures to backup those marketing claims, right?
(13:58):
So.
There's a lot of ripple effect to some,I think really small changes and that
effort to cross the bridge between thesilos that happen in our communities.
Natasha (14:11):
Yeah.
And that education, like you're saying,cross department, especially to the
sales team and even the marketingteam, like for as I, when I worked
on the agency side too, just gettinga little more insight into that.
It's really important, like you'resaying and being able to quantify.
So that was one of the questions I wasgonna ask is in terms of quantifying.
So, so you're saying, and I want to takea step back a little bit in terms of this,
(14:35):
this operationalized care value-basedcare model you're talking about.
There obviously is a, a technologicalcomponent to that, right?
Can you talk a little bit about that?
Because that's, I, I assume is thenhow we can be more proactive, how
we can then quantify these results.
Can you talk a little bitbit about that and technology
and how that's incorporated?
Andrew (14:55):
Sure thing.
I want to take a step back just toset the stage a little bit because
you did mention value-based care.
And all of this I thinkis great in concept.
I think it's really important thatour industry recognizes that by the
year 2030, this is not going to be aninteresting approach to our business.
It's going to be a mandate from agovernmental and payer standpoint, right.
(15:18):
By the year 2030 Medicare is requiringthat senior care operators be involved
in some level of accountable care model.
And what that really boils down tois that currently if we do our jobs
really well, our residents stay outof the hospital, which decreases
their dependence on a Medicare spend.
(15:40):
And those savings are reflectedright now not to the senior living
operators, whether it be in theassisted living environment or
the skilled nursing environment.
Those savings are really representedon the payer side and value-based
care gives us the chance toparticipate in those savings.
Now, all of the participation in thoseprograms is dependent on outcomes, right?
(16:04):
And we're specifically looking at thingslike hospital stays, emergency room
visits, dependence on Medicare and thosekind of payers for significant surgeries,
interventions, things like that.
And in truth, Natasha, like value-basedcare is a financial payment model.
(16:24):
The trickle down effect to our businessis in outcomes, reputation, length of
stay, resident happiness and satisfaction.
And I think that that's where our industryon the assisted living, independent
living, memory care side of thingscan really start to win right away.
The disconnect between what we do andthat Medicare insurance payer side of
(16:47):
things can feel like a big river to cross.
And, and I think that's fair.
But the changes that we make to ourbusiness right now in an effort to
support a value-based care model aregonna have an immediate impact on our
bottom line in the form of increasedlength of stay, better reputation for
our marketing and sales teams to take outinto the market, those kind of things.
(17:08):
So I think it's really important tohave that context to then discuss
the technology side of things.
Natasha (17:15):
So I want to real quick touch on what you just mentioned.
So in terms of reputation, yeah.
So you know, it's funny, a lot oftimes sales and marketing will say,
well, care isn't the main focus.
However, when I, I'm the one that'sdoing that reputation management,
I'm looking at those reviews.
It's typically about thecare, like you're saying.
And so if we can have some of those,I don't want to call them buzzwords
'cause they're true, but when you'retalking to a boomer generation about
(17:37):
value-based care, proactive modeling,longer length of stay, not in the
hospitals, that's what they want to hear.
And that's what they want tosee in your reviews and your
reputation in the market too.
So this just, it's a full circle.
Andrew (17:49):
It really is.
Natasha (17:50):
Not only is your satisfaction in your residents healthier they're happier,
but then as it trickles out to themarket and the marketing and sales side,
it's just positive win on both sides.
So I just wanted to to to say that realso you can get into the technology side.
Andrew (18:02):
Yeah,
Because like, you know, and I don'twant to be crass, but you'd never see
a headline about a resident who didn'tenjoy what was on the menu for dinner.
Right.
Nobody takes that to court.
And those are the things that areoften the death blow for a community.
And it, and it boils back to good care.
And so much of what we see in thoseservice deliveries that turn into
(18:24):
really tragic circumstances is small,operationalized, you know, just
service processes and workflows thatgot missed or degraded over time and
turned into a really bad situation.
And, you know, and I want to saylike, I firmly believe that 99.9% of
(18:44):
the people that work in this industrycare deeply about their residents and
want to see amazing care delivered.
It's, it's, it's equipping really amazingpeople with the tools and the workflows
that they need to do it consistently.
Natasha (18:56):
Exactly, and that's where I'm like, okay, so then
how, how do we help them?
How do they do this?
Because if it's a win-win on both sides,this is what boomers are looking for.
They want to, they wantto hear those results.
How do we then, how do theseoperators then change their model?
Andrew (19:12):
I have been in the industry long enough to remember charting on
paper, having rooms full of foldersand binders and you know, paper
charts, medications, the whole thing.
And the advent of the electronicrecord has really kind of turned all
of that on its head and in a good way.
I think it can be a two-sidedcoin because technology gives us
(19:33):
the ability to track everything.
And when there is a situation witha surveyor or a complaint, having
everything available can, you know,it can be scary as an operator.
And there's some great strategies forprotecting yourself and, you know, making
sure that there's good record maintenance.
But the flip side of the coin is thatfrom a technology standpoint, we can
(19:56):
track everything, which means that wecan keep really good records of changes
that our residents experience over time.
And those kind of changesguide us towards trends.
They guide us towards data thathelps us make really informed
decisions about how we manage ourbusiness and how we manage care.
I, you know, I don't want to get on acompany soapbox here, but I think one of
(20:19):
the things that PointClickCare has reallyinvested in is underlining the foundation
of a resident record that reflectsall of the things that are important.
Who the resident is, what theirdiagnosis are, what kind of medications
they're taking with the data around theday-to-day services that we provide.
And these, this is the kind ofinformation that I love as an operator,
(20:42):
is that when you know Mrs. Drakemoves into my community, we sit and
we do a really thorough assessmentof the kind of care that she needs.
We make some promises, quite franklyto Mrs. Drake and to her family about
how that care is gonna be deliveredand what she should expect from us.
And then off we go.
The aging process by its nature presentsus with a problem that those needs are
(21:07):
going to change over time, and sometimesthe window of change is long and expected
and progresses in a very natural way.
Oftentimes, I think we find in oursenior living environments, those
changes happen faster than we expected.
There's a lot of factors that are involvedwith that and I think often we don't give
enough credit to the turbulent natureof moving out of the home that I've
(21:32):
been in for 30 years into a group livingenvironment with a bunch of strangers
in a dining room I am not familiar with.
And those kind of factors are going toexpedite the aging process, quite frankly.
They often do.
We're not that, that's not news to us.
Natasha (21:51):
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (21:52):
Having a technological tool that allows you to approach your care for that
resident every day with a really definedset of the promises that were made.
And then a tracking system thatallows you to document the things
that are happening outside of thosepromises gives us a really complete
picture of Mrs. Drake every day.
(22:15):
And when we talk about operationalizingcare, that technology empowers the
conversations that happen with ourcommunity leaders to say, we know
the baseline that we established forMrs. Drake when she moved in, and
now we can really clearly see what'shappening away from that baseline.
(22:35):
As an operator who has limitedability to provide care based on
regulatory requirements and whatI'm allowed to do under my license,
what assisted living even allows.
Being able to see that picture of changesin real time gives me the data that I
need to pull in those third party partnersthat are experts and licensed to provide
(22:57):
that care over and above what I cando in my assisted living environment.
And that's where we getto be really proactive.
Natasha (23:04):
Yeah.
Andrew (23:04):
other part of this conversation boils down to a financial one.
Right?
And as executive directors,wellness directors.
We have all been in that situationwhere we had to call a family in and
say, when you first moved into ourcommunity, we promised you that your
mom's care was gonna cost $300 a monthand now it is going to cost $500 a
(23:27):
month or a thousand dollars a month.
And for a long time, thoseconversations, I know for me as an
operator, I just dreaded them becauseI knew there was gonna be pushback.
I knew the accusations of nickeland diming were going to come and.
For a long time we've reallykind of had to say like, you
gotta take my word for it.
(23:47):
Like, I see your mom every dayand it turns into this, like
you're on that side of the table.
I'm on this side of the table,and we're negotiating now over
the wellness of your mother.
And like that's gross.
Natasha (23:59):
Yeah.
Andrew (24:00):
With the documentation that technology allows us to do now.
I instead get to sit on the same side ofthe table with the Drake family and say,
over the last 30 days we have seen thesechanges happen away from the baseline that
we agreed on when your mom moved in here.
And because of those changes,we're concerned about some
(24:23):
future danger for your mom.
And so we would like to partner withyou to make some changes in her care.
There is a difference in costassociated with that, and that cost
helps us ensure that the resources areavailable so that your mom stays safe.
That conversation iscompletely different, Natasha.
Now we're partners in this and,and as a family member, I can
Natasha (24:47):
say, that was
Andrew (24:47):
beautiful.
Yeah, right.
Like,
Natasha (24:48):
way to say that to the family.
It's
Andrew (24:51):
and I think it's so much fun because now fun is the
wrong word, but it's, it's very,it's a very engaged process.
Natasha (24:58):
You're being proactive and you care.
You're truly caring about their care.
Andrew (25:02):
And if I'm a family member, you're showing me documentation of all
of the ways that you've engaged withmy loved one in the last 30 days or 60
days, and that reinforces the value ofthe decision that I made when I moved in.
So when I talk about equipping oursales and marketing directors to go
out into the marketplace and say,Hey, we have the best care in town.
(25:22):
This is something thatthey can carry with them.
This is an actual tool intheir toolbox to say we are,
we're gonna document that care.
We're going to, you know it, it'snot just about the caregiver going
into that apartment every day.
It's about this black and whitepicture of the changes in your mom.
There's another factor that I thinkabout a lot too that happens in
(25:43):
this level of care conversation.
Natasha (25:45):
Hmm.
Andrew (25:45):
Oftentimes, our family members, they don't see their
loved one as much as we do.
Right?
Not even oftentimes.
Almost always.
Natasha (25:52):
Or, and, and they have a different perception.
too.
Andrew (25:55):
And so when we approach this level of care conversation that says, Hey, your
mom is getting older and sicker, we're,there's an implication of guilt that
like we know things about the changesin your mother that you don't know.
Natasha (26:07):
Right.
Andrew (26:07):
and that guilt can is crushing to, you know, a to a family member.
This process in this conversationengages them in those changes, and
I think it reinforces the trustthat they put us put in us when they
first made that buying decision.
It takes that guilt out of the equation.
(26:29):
We're doing exactly what you askedus to do and we're documenting it
so that you can hold us accountable.
Right and putting that accountabilityon ourselves that operate as operators.
It really frees that family memberfrom that guilt of maybe the lack
of awareness or, or the differentperspective that, you know, that's
associated with with that situation.
(26:51):
So technology is the key to all of this.
And, and I think that it hasreally far reaching implications.
Natasha (26:58):
Well, and, and it's crazy because, gosh, the past, like five
or six, maybe all the episodes I'vehad on the podcast, technology has
grown, booming in incredible rates.
You know, AI and everything Interms of marketing and sales.
Why are we not okay with thatfrom a clinical perspective?
You know, I mean, we have to be,and we, and, and everything we
(27:18):
do nowadays has to be quantified.
You know, everything.
And we, and we do that.
We ba everything you doin marketing, every time I
recommend something, quantify it.
Show me, give me data, you know,so we have all of that on the,
on the sales and marketing side.
More so on the marketing side, Iwould say, and digital, but you're
right, from a clinical perspective,it helps you to be proactive.
Just like we're trying to be proactivefrom the sales and marketing side.
(27:38):
It's helping you be proactiveon the clinical side.
So I agree.
I mean, we gotta get behind that.
Andrew (27:44):
As we talk about removing silos, I think this is another place
where technology can really shine.
PointClickCare has really ledthe market in this effort.
That's not to say other EHRs don't,but I think that PCC has really set
the standard where we can integratewith other pieces of the tech stack.
So operators are investing in reallyimportant tools like Life Loop and
(28:05):
Meal Suite, and you know, Apploi forhiring and team member engagement.
And when you select an EHR partner,that works very hard at integrating with
those other pieces of your tech stack.
So the information that lives in thatclinical service delivery doesn't live
on an island, but you get this reallyclear data picture of how the service
(28:29):
delivery from the clinical standpointoverlaps with the wellness program that
your life enrichment team is engagingin with that culinary program that
your dining team is really invested in.
And now you start to get this reallybig data-driven picture of the
life that your resident is living.
That only further educates youroperational team to make really
(28:52):
proactive decisions for your resident.
And it only further educatesyour family members on how
you're keeping your promises.
So I think it's really importantwhen choosing that technology
partner that you're looking at theways in which they can connect with
the various parts of your business.
If we're working hard to buildbridges between our departments from
(29:15):
a person to person standpoint, weshould also be removing those silos
on the technology side of things.
So that we have a really finely tunedmachine that gives us the best opportunity
to be proactive in our resident care.
Natasha (29:29):
Yeah.
And I think, you know, just hearingyou say this, just from a, my sales
cap comes on, I'm thinking of howmuch more educated I would now feel.
How much more clinicalbased knowledge can I share?
As, and again, like, I'm gonna say itagain, but with this new generation
saying what you just said in termsof it all linking together, it's
proactive, it's operationalized.
(29:50):
We have, we can quantify it, likethat's the stuff they want to hear.
Because that's what thisgeneration's used to.
So we can't just say, oh, I promiseyou, we'll give you good care.
No, we can actually quantify that.
We can show what we track it.
All of this integrates so that thecare level changes, then the wellness
programs change and the services change.
The dining's going to have tochange and it's all proactive
and works together ahead of time.
(30:11):
So we don't have problems.
That just gives, that just fuelsthe sales team to have that
information and to be able to talkabout that in the sales process.
Andrew (30:17):
I would love to, you know, see the faces of sales directors who might
be listening to this right now, whoare going into hospitals and skilled
nursing communities looking to buildreferral driven relationships and trying
to build those relationships based on amarketing pitch, centered on amenities
and hospitality because our case managersin those acute driven environments
(30:42):
don't care if we have a pool and theydon't care how good our dining is,
they'll take the brochure and they'lltell us how pretty it is, and they'll
definitely come to our happy hours.
But if we are able to walk intothose skilled and acute environments
and say, Hey, I can reduce yourrehospitalizations by 30% in the next
60 days, and I have data to show thatmy residents are going to the hospital
(31:03):
30% less than they were 60 days ago.
That rings a bell for a case manager thatrings a bell for a discharge planner.
And I think there's a lot of timeswhere our sales directors feel very
frustrated that they go in, they're,they're tasked by a regional leadership,
go build referrals at the hospital, goget referrals from the skilled nursing
(31:25):
environment, and they start to get askedquestions around clinical outcomes.
And what do they have to say?
Well, I need to introduce you to my nurse.
Natasha (31:32):
Yep.
They're not equipped with theright terminology, the right data.
They don't have, they don'thave anything to share or give.
I know I've been in that situation.
Yes.
Andrew (31:40):
Then we're asking our wellness directors to become salespeople when
they get introduced at a happy hour.
Hey, you know, wellness director,go get me five referrals.
They, they're, that's not their job,and they're not equipped for that.
So I think like it's a really simpleswitch to flip of equipping our
salespeople with some really accessibledata that says I can make a difference
(32:02):
in your business, hospital partner.
I can make a difference in yourbusiness, skilled nursing partner.
And that's gonna make that personpick up the phone far more than,
you know, what we've got on ouractivity calendar that week.
Natasha (32:14):
Yeah.
And it, and it also helps not only fromthe sales and marketing perspective,
but also the corporate office too,can better quantify those results,
can quantify their profits, whateverit needs to be nonprofit profit.
But it, it, it goes on both sides.
So yeah.
Andrew (32:25):
Our corporate team members that are talking to their investors are focused
on census and length of stay, right?
Like those are the KPIs that arereally driving those conversations,
especially as we're lookingfor new capital in the market.
Especially as we're looking forgrowth from a M&A standpoint.
We need to be able to demonstrate,hey, we're bringing residents
in and we're keeping them andoperationalizing our wellness.
(32:48):
To a point where our operators can bereally proactive in resident care is
gonna be the number one driver for that.
So, you know, when we talk about theripple effect I think it's more of
a trickle up than a trickle down.
Because this really startsat the community level.
But this has impacts all theway up to the C-Suite for sure.
Natasha (33:04):
Yeah.
Is there anything more before we, weclose that I didn't touch on or I didn't
ask that we, we want to dive into?
Andrew (33:12):
No, I think I would really encourage my operators who are
listening today to get rid of thatanxiety around clinical conversations.
And not just by, you know, a mantra thatyou look at yourself in the mirror and
say, don't be scared of clinical today.
But you've got access to thedata in your communities.
You know, and I want you to feel reallyempowered to use it in a meaningful way.
(33:35):
And if it's not great today, if youlook at the data and it's scary, we're
not happy with the numbers, get engagedwith your partners from a technology
standpoint to understand why itisn't good, what's happening, and get
really strategic about how to fix it.
My favorite conversations with myclients are around the workflows that
(33:56):
drive the utilization of the technologyin ways that support our frontline
team members, our wellness directors.
Because those changes equate toactual differences in resident care.
They equate to a more educatedteam member who feels empowered to
speak up in a standup meeting whensomething has changed with Mrs. Gall.
(34:19):
And they equate to really data-drivendiscussions in at-risk meetings and
department head meetings about thelongevity of our residents, you know,
and about their wellness picture.
So I would just encourage you,like, don't be scared of it.
Data can feel scary.
Engage with your partners tomake sure that you understand it
and understand how to action it.
And then I would say if youdon't feel like you've got a good
(34:42):
technology partner for that right now.
We would love to engage with you.
You know, we would love to talkthrough what impacts can be made
on your business and ultimatelyon the care of your residents
and, and how we can help support.
Natasha (34:55):
That's awesome.
Thank you so much for hopping on today.
You know, it was something like Isaid really out of my wheelhouse.
But man, I'm, I'm, I'm ready.
Like I'm, from a sales and marketingperspective, I now feel more equipped
in order to market this properly.
And I'm, I've got these like things goingon in my head of how we can get this on
the website, things we can do in termsof blogs and education and reputation.
(35:18):
So I'm, I'm psyched about it.
So thank you.
Thank you so much for joining today.
Are there any other, is there anylast key takeaway that you want like
a a for sales and maybe for sales andmarketing directors specifically too,
as most of the listeners are, youknow, any key takeaway you want them to
remember specifically from this episode.
Andrew (35:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
I've been doing a little bit ofcontent myself and one of the things
that we're talking about right nowis how the sales team can engage that
clinical partner in the community.
And it can be difficult to pull thatwellness director away from resident care.
I think there's a ton of valuein introducing that clinical
relationship before the residentmakes a buying decision.
(35:56):
Before they make that move indecision for a couple of reasons.
We really want to be strategic aboutthe acuity in our communities, right?
And making sure that we have the rightresidents and that we are equipped to
provide the right kind of care and gettingthat clinical eye and clinical perspective
on a potential new resident beforethe move in helps us avoid surprises.
It helps us avoid, you knowthe unexpected care needs.
(36:19):
But it also starts to underpin thevalue of the promises that we're
making throughout that buying decision.
And we don't want the first time ourwellness director meets Mrs. Gall to be
when she comes through the front door.
Because now, now we're set upright from the beginning of that
relationship to be reactionary.
Versus if we've had theseconversations, we've established the
(36:40):
expectations beforehand, our teamfeels ready, our team feels prepared.
From a clinical standpoint, we're alreadyengaging with the third party partner
relationships that might be neededto provide the right type of care.
So I would tell your sales directors,like if you're not sitting down with
your wellness director every singleday to go over your hot leads or your,
(37:01):
you know, potential move-in board andto get out and do those home visits.
I'm a big home visit guy.
Go see that potential new resident intheir current environment to get a real
good picture of what's actually going on.
Start doing that and, and, and leveragethat executive director leadership as
well to, you know, kind of they shouldreally be quarterbacking the whole thing.
And, you know, sometimes thoseperspectives can be at odds where
(37:24):
the wellness director says, oh man,I don't know if this is a good fit.
And the sales director is feelingthat pressure to, you know push
occupancy and fill an apartment.
That executive director needs tobe the leader in the conversation
and really quarterback to say like,what's the best fit for our community?
Can we effectively deliver onthe promises that are being
made from a sales standpoint?
Does my clinical team havethe resources that it needs
(37:47):
to execute on those promises?
And I think like if I'm, if I'm sendinga message to a sales director today,
I'm saying like, Hey, I would get reallyloud about the need for that support and
really engaged in with your leadership.
And tell 'em like, Hey,this is what I need guys.
Ultimately you're gonna come up witha really diverse and collaborative
product to take to market.
Natasha (38:09):
Yeah, let's take away that fear.
Let's let the prospect feel excited aboutmoving because of all of the services
and hospitality and concierge, but feelconfident in the transparency of the care
they're gonna get and that proactive care.
I mean, that's, that's an exciting future.
And so I hope everyone gets behind that.
If anyone has any questions, ofcourse, please reach out to Andrew
(38:31):
or myself and I'll connect you withAndrew to learn more about this
because I think it is the future.
It's really exciting.
We need to get behind it.
Thank you Andrew somuch for being on today.
Andrew (38:40):
Been lot of fun.
Natasha (38:41):
And thank you for watching another episode of
The Drake Insights Podcast.
I look forward to seeing you next time.
Bye.
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