January 6, 2025 • 49 mins
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Summary
In this episode of Elemental Educator, host Tyler speaks with Kate Hunter, an expert in elementary education, about her journey in education, the importance of grounded mindsets, and the role of leadership in fostering positive change. They discuss the significance of high expectations, relationship building, and the MTSS framework in supporting both educators and students. Kate shares her insights on navigating change, implementing new initiatives, and the importance of empowering educators to take risks in their teaching practices. The conversation emphasizes the need for collaboration, grace, and a growth mindset in education, ultimately aiming to create a better learning environment for all.
Takeaways
- Teachers are inherently leaders and must develop leadership skills.
- Setting high expectations is a form of love and care for students.
- Building relationships is crucial for effective education.
- MTSS provides a framework for supporting diverse student needs.
- Empowerment in education leads to greater impact.
- Change in education requires time and collaboration.
- Data-driven decision-making is essential for effective teaching.
- Grace and understanding are vital for educators' growth.
- Risk-taking in teaching can lead to innovation and improvement.
- A focus on core values can guide educational practices.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Welcome 01:42 Kate's Journey in Education 04:20 Maintaining a Grounded Mindset 07:50 Building Relationships and Trust 09:28 MTSS and Professional Learning 14:28 Creating Lasting Value for Educators 18:28 Navigating Change in Education 22:53 Challenges of Being an Entrepreneur in Education 25:51 Implementing Effective Changes in Education 26:17 The Importance of Learning and Understanding the Why 30:36 Involving Staff Members in Decision-Making and Connecting Initiatives to Student Impact 33:04 Strategies for Implementing Changes in Curriculum and Meeting Student Needs 38:31 Encouraging Educ
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So I hope that people hear and feel empowered so that they can go and feel empowered andthen they can empower others, right?
(00:07):
To have that reach, to have that connection.
Hi Alchemists and welcome back to another episode of Elemental Educator.
(00:30):
I'm your host Tyler and if you're joining us for the first time, thank you so very muchfor tuning in and welcome to a place where we redefine leadership and challenge the status
quo.
Be sure to like, follow, and subscribe to Elemental Educator on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,or wherever you get your podcasts from.
And check out our website, elementaleducator .com.
Get ready to let the alchemy of education ignite your passion for learning.
(00:51):
Today we're joined by Kate Hunter.
Kate is an expert in elementary education, MTSS and professional learning.
Kate brings a wealth of knowledge in curriculum design, relationship building and dataorganization.
Today we'll explore her insights on grounded mindsets, navigating change and the art oftaking risks.
Kate is passionate about positively impacting educators and students.
(01:13):
She's excited to share her journey as she embarks on growing her new small business.
Kate, welcome to the Elemental Educator podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Absolutely, and I'm hearing it is your first podcast, so I hope it is an amazingexperience, makes you want to do more and maybe start your own one day.
You never know.
yeah, that sounds fun.
I would love to.
(01:33):
I love talking about education.
It's obviously something I'm very passionate about, so I think, you know, that helps makethe nerves go away a little bit more since I know we're just going to be talking about
what I love.
Yeah, and let's start by getting into exactly what you love.
How did you get to where you are now?
So probably like many people who started an education, I was always the kid playingschool.
(01:53):
I was always the teacher lined up all my stuffed animals and my baby dolls and I wasteaching them.
I was the one who asked the teacher for extra copies and handouts and all that kind ofstuff so could take it home to pretend with all of my friends.
And then just as I got older, I realized I really did enjoy that leadership opportunitythat came with that too.
So whether it was.
I played basketball and just working with the other teammates on the basketball team andkind of coaching them through different things.
(02:18):
I realized obviously my passion is in that and helping others and serving others throughleadership.
And so I taught for about 10 years.
I actually just it's kind of a side note, which you know we may get to later.
I taught my first year and I hated it and so I quit.
But then I quickly realized that you know first years are everybody should hate them.
(02:40):
because they're tough and so I got back into it thankfully and I have now been inleadership as an assistant principal.
This is my seventh year and so just kind of learning and growing as I go and you know thatkind of is where I'm at here as I was in admin and in kind of those first couple years
looking for resources and looking for ideas and looking for ways to collaborate withothers.
(03:01):
I just realized
there's not a lot of resources.
You know, at least six years ago, there's not a ton for elementary school leaders orprobably all levels of leaders.
And so I kind of started thinking as I got more comfortable in what I was doing, why notshare this with others?
Put things out there, start your own community.
At my school, there's only one assistant principal, so it's me.
(03:21):
And there's not a lot of opportunities for collaboration, you know, other than obviouslywith my principal and other assistant principals in the district.
But I wanted to kind of build that community as well because
I love my job, but what we do is tough.
Anybody who works in education, it is tough.
that's kind of where I started seeing there was an impact to Simple Solutions, anorganization, and my staff at school always kind of calls me a nerd about spreadsheets.
(03:45):
And I said, that's fine, but spreadsheets work.
So let's do this, and started to share that.
What a great story.
And I like that it really started with, you instantly said that teachers are leaders andthere's a misconception around whether or not they are.
They absolutely are 100%.
They lead their classroom.
They lead their little communities.
They are leaders and they need to have leadership skills and leadership traits.
(04:07):
And that first year, you know, even within the five year burnout, it's because they don'tteach you in school, all the little logistics behind what you're actually getting into in
education.
But
you know, having it rooted in your passion to help and to help learn, that's why you cameback.
And so it's great to hear how that story unfolds.
(04:29):
Now with that, on my show, the earth represents core values and rooting yourself inbeliefs.
So Kate, how do you maintain a grounded mindset in your work as an educator?
And how do these core values guide your approach to relationship building and curriculumdevelopment?
So first of all, I think one big core value that I really took from that year, I guess offand coming back was you've got to give yourself grace.
(04:53):
You know, we're all humans.
We all make mistakes.
Things are hard and that's okay, but you've got to give yourself that grace.
Also, you know, think about just what's best for kids.
That's why we are in this.
think too often we sometimes we forget, you know, when you're there's
deadlines and there's new curriculum coming out and you know everything's kind of comingfrom the top but really what it comes down to it is these are kids.
(05:16):
We're talking you know depending on what age group you work with we're talking you knowfive years old, ten years old and I'll tell you a huge part of that was becoming a mom
myself.
I definitely became a better educator when I had children and just seeing what they whatthey're experiencing and their mindsets on everything.
So I often think about
well, you what if my kid was at the school?
(05:37):
And my kids do come to my school.
And so it's like, well, if my kid's in that class, you know, and my kid's not any moreimportant than any other child.
I actually had an assistant principal when I was teaching tell me, I had a student thatwas, you know, little bit of a struggle at building that connection and that relationship
with her.
And she said, you know, remember, somebody used to rock her to sleep.
I thought, ugh.
(05:58):
Like it was, she got me good, because it was right after I had my first son.
And I said, you're right.
Like yes, she might be hard to connect with, but she's a child.
Like we're talking about a baby, you know what I here.
And so that's just kind of, it has definitely been my approach to everything that I feellike I do.
I want to have high expectations for students, because I think that they can rise to theexpectations that we set on them.
(06:19):
As adults, we have a lot of influence over that, and kids believe what we tell them,whether that's telling them in our words to them, our body language, our actions.
how we respond to things and kids will rise to what we expect of them.
I also am, you know, try to be a service leader and really supporting the teachers.
And so that relationship building is a huge part of that for me because I know and as mosteducators know, we're not going to get anything accomplished until they know that we care
(06:46):
about them, right?
And so we've got to build that relationship first.
There's a something that actually my sister told me a long time ago.
She's a leader in a different
kind of avenue, I guess, but it's this idea of having a presence, you know, so inclassrooms, having a presence in their classrooms, which builds that relationship, which
builds trust, and then you get to have that influence.
(07:07):
So as a leader, if I can do that with the staff, then I can build those relationships,then ultimately I can hopefully have that positive influence on so many more kids.
You know, when we're in the classroom, we have an amazing influence on the kids that we'rewith, but as a leader, I can influence all 45 classrooms in my school.
by building those relationships with them.
So, you know, it just really comes down to, like I said, what's gonna be best for the kidsin the long run?
(07:30):
What would I want for my kids?
And also at the same time, though, keeping it simple.
It doesn't have to be complicated.
That's huge for me.
That's a lot of what I do, I think, in my little small business that I have is we don'thave to make this super complex.
Again, it's about caring about kids and helping them grow.
So do simple better.
That's kind of my philosophy.
Now we could run an entire show just off of that response right there.
(07:55):
There's so much that we can continue to unpack.
No, that's exactly what we want to get to Kate.
And one of my favorite quotes is, expectations is an act of love, low expectations is anact of apathy.
So setting high expectations and continually setting high expectations is so beneficial.
And doing what's best for kids is so, so, so important in the profession that we're in.
(08:18):
And...
You know, I just had Jodie Carrington on here who's a psychologist in Alberta and youknow, we'll have Dr.
Greg Wells coming later in the year as well.
And they send a very powerful message too, which is to do what's best for kids, you alsohave to do what's best for your staff, right?
And so you do need to think of this holistically.
You do need to take care of your staff.
You do need to take care of the adults around to take care of the kids.
(08:39):
And that segues to when you're referring to rocking to sleep, you have to take care oftheir parents.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yep.
You have to, because, because like you said, I'm a, I'm a first time dad.
There are so many things I don't know as, as a parent either.
And it would be so helpful if somebody reached out and said, Hey, you should try doingthis.
If you're seeing this and I can go home and try it and see if it works.
(09:00):
Right?
So, so that holistic community, that a group approach of you are all there for the kid andrecognizing that makes your life a lot easier.
Absolutely, yeah, we want to partner with the parents and families or whatever that lookslike, you know, for the students because it's ultimately it's for the kids.
So, yeah.
in your experience with MTSS and professional learning, how do you ensure that thefoundational aspects of education are grounded in strong values that benefit both
(09:26):
educators and students?
So definitely what's best for kids is kind of the start of that, of just making sure thatthat is our perspective on everything.
But our goal, you know, I guess with that, and this is, I talk a lot with our staff at thebeginning of every single year.
I'm very obviously involved in the MTSS process at my school, and we talk a lot about whatour goal is.
(09:48):
Our goal is to provide students with the supports they need to be successful in whateverway that looks like.
And that's not always gonna look the same for every kid.
I tell my staff that back at the very beginning of my career in leadership, and I don'tmean this in a negative way against anyone, but sometimes the conversation was more about
what do we have to do to get this child into special ed?
Special ed's great, but that's not our goal when we have a student that is at the verybeginning of their educational journey.
(10:13):
We gotta figure this out first.
We've gotta problem solve a little bit.
And so we definitely take that problem solving approach and that team approach so thatwe're working together.
hard.
We know when you're supporting kids in an MTSS process and the way we do it at our school,we are pretty much, you know, we meet with each grade level all day long.
So our support team.
And when you are talking about students that are struggling all day long, it's impossibleto not leave with just that like deflated, discouraged feeling.
(10:41):
And so we have to do it together though.
So that's what we always say, hey guys, we are a team.
Even if a teacher doesn't have someone
that is necessarily on a tier that we're talking about that day, they're gonna participatein that meeting too because they might have had a student just like that last year.
And it's that whole idea with John Hattie's research about teacher efficacy, is these areall our students.
(11:03):
It is not just the kids in your classroom.
It is the kids that we're working with all of them.
We want all of our students to have that opportunity to grow.
And so, yeah, so we do.
We have that problem solving approach, that team approach.
But also what's really going to be important for us is that circle of control.
So for example, I can't control if a child has a medical inability to focus.
(11:24):
You that often comes up at schools.
I know it least does mine.
well, they can't focus.
They're distracted.
That's not, that's out of my control.
That's way their brain works.
I also think it's shifting that perception about that too.
You you hear a kid has ADHD.
That's just the way their brain works.
There's nothing wrong.
It's just the brain works a little bit differently.
And so we can't control that, but we can control, you know, making sure that we have somereally engaging lessons, that we hook them in to the lesson, that as I'm, you know, a
(11:50):
teacher is walking around the classroom, they're providing that teacher proximity andthose nonverbal signals taps on the shoulder just to bring that child back.
We can't control what happens to a student before they get to our class, but we cancontrol the way we respond to them.
Maybe they come in and they're grumpy, they throw their book bag down.
If our response is, my gosh, what are you doing?
(12:10):
That child doesn't feel welcome at school.
That child, it's gonna perpetuate that feeling for them.
But if we say, hey, seems like something happened this morning.
Do you wanna talk about it?
Do you need a minute?
If we can, as the adults, have that kind of second and that reaction, I think it's gonnabe a whole lot better off.
We also talk about attendance a lot.
You know, can't always control attendance at the elementary school level.
(12:33):
It's a little different, I know, when you're in high school because the students have moreof a choice there.
But at the elementary school level, it's not their fault if they're not there most of thetime.
You know, and so that's part of what you mentioned before about partnering with parents.
and I'm kind of probably segueing a little different here, but we do like attendancesuccess meetings where we sit down with the parents and we ask them, what's the struggle
to getting your child here on time and how can we help with that?
(12:56):
But it's that whole foundation of we're in this together, we want to help, you know, thegoal is for them to succeed.
They have to be at school to succeed.
But if you know, if a student walks into my class or to a teacher's classroom and, youknow, they hadn't been there for a couple days and the teacher says, were you out again?
That kid's not going to want to come to school.
(13:17):
if they say, my gosh, I'm so happy to see you.
I'm so glad you're here today.
I'll help you get caught up.
Let's just go ahead and get unpacked.
you know, the class will be excited to see you when you get in there.
It's just that whole mindset shift, I think, of we're the adults and how we respond tothings is how it's going to create a different, whole different perception for the kids.
(13:37):
So yeah, that's a big part.
So that our overall goal, you know, is for kids to have success for that problem solvingprocess.
Let's sit down.
Let's figure this out.
Let's, you know, all work together.
to figure this out.
then just having mentioned, you those high expectations.
So what if a kid has a reading disability?
That's the way their brain works.
They can still read, they can still grow.
(13:59):
But sometimes we have to shift that and our staff members shift that viewpoint for sure.
That's exactly it.
And Kate, you wouldn't have been able to listen to my last four episodes because they'renot out yet.
They're recorded.
But everything that you just spoke to is everything we unpack in them from Hattie'sVisible Matrix and Talking Collective Teacher Efficacy.
to the idea of the holistic child and putting the kid first.
(14:22):
It is so rooted in your value.
And you you talked about segueing a bit to share what your school does for attendance.
That's not a segue because you talked about a holistic approach to supporting the kid,which was how you rooted it in your core values.
So it's great to hear.
With that, I wanna shift away from the school a little bit because you do have your smallbusiness venture going on.
And so what core values are you focusing on to ensure it creates a lasting value foreducators and positively impact students?
(14:49):
So kind of a lot of the same things, right?
I can't separate who I am as an educator and a leader, but it's intentionality and justkind of what we do, again, as leaders or as educators, if we're intentional with that, we
can have lasting change with that.
I also am a really big, I guess, cheerleader or proponent of empowerment.
(15:10):
So the saying empowered people empower people.
So if I can empower other educators through this small business and this little communitythat I've started, then they'll empower others.
And then again, it's just that reach.
It keeps getting larger and larger.
And hopefully that means empowering students and empowering parents as well.
So the things that I really have tried to create with this business are, first of all, arethings that I use in the school.
(15:33):
So they're genuine and they're applicable because I get it.
I'm right there.
You know, I'm in the school systems, but they're simple.
They're not meant to be hard.
And I definitely, I'm a very organized person.
And so that simple, efficient, organized resources are what I find to work best because wealready all work hard.
So I kind of, my little slogan always, you know, which is like work smarter, not harder.
(15:57):
Like we can do this if we, you one, connect with each other and two, we have thesedifferent resources to do things.
It doesn't have to be difficult.
Now it sounds a little leader in me -ish when you talk about the idea of empowerment.
So what would you suggest, if somebody is trying to get to a stage where they just focuson empowerment, what's the first thing they can be doing to create that within their
(16:19):
organization?
I mean, relationship building, for sure.
It goes back to that.
They've got to have that presence, even in their school building.
So one of my favorite things is I go around every morning, or about every morning.
Sometimes I have meetings or things come up, as we all know, and say good morning to eachclass.
(16:40):
it takes, you know, it depends.
It takes 15 minutes sometimes.
It can take an hour sometimes, just depending on what else is going on.
But I just go in, I say good morning, I tell the kids I'm glad that they're here, but Ialso connect with the teachers that way too.
And so that gives me an opportunity if they have a quick question or they need me to havea quick chat with a student, I'm out and about in the school building.
(17:02):
Of course, I try to be in the building as much as possible anyways, but that morning kindof time they know most likely I'm gonna be coming around.
And so they don't have to try to find me in the hustle and bustle of morning arrival,because they know I'm going to come around in the morning.
And so it's that, hey, real quick, I need to ask you this question.
But I guess in building that presence or having that presence and building thatrelationship helps to build that trust.
(17:27):
And so then when I can say to them, hey, what about this idea?
Or you are very capable of this.
Have you thought about putting this out there?
They know that they can trust me, that I'm not gonna lead them astray, hopefully, and thatI'm gonna ask them to put whatever they can in it just try something new and know that I'm
there, I guess, cheer them on with that too.
(17:50):
So it's about creating that safe space for them to be a little bit of innovative in theirprocesses.
And one thing that I like to do, and it's a hard thing to do, is I love to do a lot.
And as a leader in a building, you need to come up with a list of things you don't need tobe doing that you're still doing.
And within that list, what can you be asking others to do and to help out with?
(18:12):
You'll be surprised with how many people are excited to jump on and take on that rolebecause they are feeling like a part of your leadership team at that point.
Now, with your own venture and with walking around and all of the things you're doing,you're probably faced with a lot of adversity, a lot of distraction, a lot of challenges,
and this is more of the air element where we start to deal with how we overcome those.
(18:35):
So Kate, how have you navigated the challenges of implementing changes within educationalsystems?
Maybe especially when it comes to adapting curriculum and professional learning to meetdiverse needs.
Yeah, so one thing that was probably a little hard for me to learn as I got intoleadership was that change takes time.
I'm a problem solver.
I want to just like get in.
(18:55):
I want to fix something right away.
But I've had some other great leaders that have talked to me about, know, it takes time.
You you can't can't turn the Titanic, you know, instantaneously.
You've got to allow yourself that time and that grace to help to create that, you know,change, whatever it is.
And it's
it's not gonna be easy and that's okay.
Again, it's okay if things are hard.
(19:16):
I've talked a lot about the relationships and just teachers are gonna trust me when theyknow that I care about them.
And a lot of that is that vulnerability.
So I'm a big fan of Brene Brown too.
And so we talk a lot about, or she talks a lot about vulnerability.
And I think it's just...
be like being open and sharing my stories and sharing.
I mean, I've talked to them about, hey, I had a really difficult time with this studentonce and this is what my admin had to tell me and this is what I had to work through.
(19:41):
I know, you know, I kind of know what you're going through.
I always tell them that I try not to be too far removed from the classroom, right?
As leaders, you know, it's always that, they don't remember what it's like to be in theclassroom, but I try to say, you know, no, like I do remember and I try to be in their
classrooms to actually like experience that with them.
but I think just kind of implementing that change is that grace that we have to giveourselves, and that vulnerability to let's include others.
(20:07):
This is a collaborative approach, right?
So education can't just be from one person and telling everybody else to what to do.
and, building them up and then empowerment.
I mean, it all comes together.
say like, you know, your kids best, like, you know what they need, like, let's worktogether with this.
and just having that, that relationship though.
I mean, it all.
We know everything in education goes back to those relationships first, for sure.
(20:29):
So you talk about change being a process, not an event, and it takes time to go through.
Can you share a time when you had to be, we'll say, particularly fluid in your approach tochange, whether in curriculum development, data organization, and how you helped others
adjust to that change?
Yeah, so I think the big one that I could think about is my first admin job when I firstbecame assistant principal.
(20:57):
I took a lot of time, obviously, that first year to learn and just to ask questions about,why everything's done this way?
What could we do differently?
Or what would that look like?
But kind of revamping our MTSS process.
I've done it at two different schools now and I had some great success with both.
Kind of before the whole, you know, the MTSS with the multi -tiered system of supports is.
(21:18):
I feel like a more relative, at least where I am, newer kind of concept within the lastfew years.
And so was kind of on that, I guess that shift between, you know, just specific RTI,obviously I know it's a part of that, but to the whole MTSS process and...
helping to cultivate that in my school.
within that first year.
So again, the first year I learned a lot about that or how things were done there.
(21:41):
And then that summer, I spent a lot of time researching.
I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what works best and figuring out how can Ideliver this to the rest of the educators on our staff and how is it manageable, right?
So it's not meant to be another thing, but maybe we need to do something differently.
How can we make it effective?
So I had to believe it.
(22:01):
I had to believe in the why.
I had to explain that so that others would believe in that why and I had to be, know,quote unquote, in the trenches with the staff because it couldn't be something they
weren't going to buy into it if I just said, hey, you need to do this differently, thisdifferently, this differently.
It was like, hey, I got an idea.
Can we look at this?
Let's talk about this.
Let me pick your brain about this and just kind of being open myself.
(22:24):
I guess I think is that part of that particularly fluid part of being open and adaptingand being flexible.
And if they come and say, hey Kate, we've tried this.
Can we work through this a little bit more?
Can we workshop this?
know, and being open to say, yeah, like give me your thoughts.
Let's talk about this.
It's not just me.
I'm one person.
You know, I have one brain.
Let's share your thoughts on this and you know, what works best for your class.
(22:48):
what works best for the grade level, what works best for our school, let's figure that outtogether.
And if you think you can or can't, you're probably right.
Yeah, exactly.
my son's favorite little quotes, which I love that he loves that as a kid.
Yeah, there's a lot of power in its simplicity as well.
explaining the why behind the reason for doing things, it's so important because you getthat buy -in.
(23:14):
That's how you establish collective efficacy.
Everybody understands why they're doing something.
Now, segueing a bit from your admin role to your business side of things, that must befull of unexpected challenges too.
How are you applying your experience and education to embrace and adopt to the changes andchallenges you're encountering as a new entrepreneur?
(23:35):
So a lot of the same, I gotta give myself grace.
If I expect that from my staff members, I've gotta give that to myself too.
And it takes time, the change takes time, influence takes time, you know, and that'sobviously not my full -time job.
And so, you know, I love what I do and that is my full -time and so I've got to know, youknow what, sometimes maybe I don't have the energy to make a post or to do this about it.
(23:57):
I'm still so new in that arena.
I just have to try to
and intentionally seek out, okay, what are some opportunities that I can maybe collaboratewith others, you know, and what are some ways that I can learn from others and taking that
time, time and grace, I feel like are kind of the big, I guess, pieces of that and justreally building those same things for collaboration and that relationship building.
(24:21):
You know, there's people already that I've started to communicate with just through socialmedia.
that have similar ideas as I do or even a little bit of different ideas, but we candiscuss that and we can share and we can see different viewpoints so that I can take that
back and hopefully they can take something from what I've shared back and we can grapplewith that and then we can figure out how to make things better for everyone.
(24:42):
So I would definitely say giving grace, knowing that change and influence take time, butalso keeping things simple, right?
Just do simple better.
It doesn't have to be complicated.
I will say that even at my school I do the social media for our school, but it is simple.
It is sharing, you know, kids and everything and what we're doing and that is definitelysomething I need to learn a lot more about for the business side of, you know, all the
(25:08):
reels and the...
I don't even know what all they are, right?
All the hooks and all that kind of stuff.
I haven't learned that yet.
But I try to keep it simple and authentic.
that at least that community that's out there, maybe a small community right now, but likewhat you see is what you get.
This is who I am.
When I'm sharing ideas, again, it is stuff that I am using in my school.
I've used every single one of those things.
(25:29):
In fact, I actually, we were sitting in our first MTSS meetings of the school year lastweek and I thought, my gosh, like, wait a second, like we forgot all about that thing we
did last year and I went like to my store, you know, and kind of.
pulled it up because it was just faster to find it.
I was like, y 'all remember, like, we used this last year, like, why are we not using thisagain?
And so 100%, just being authentic with it.
(25:51):
And regardless of the size of the community, you still have outreach, you're stillinfluencing, and that's the powerful thing.
And if it's quality and it's effective, it will grow.
One thing I'm learning from people that I'm talking to is it's apparently still Twitter,if you're still on Twitter, although it has changed its name to X, but I guess if you're
(26:13):
an original, I'm trying to not say anything about being old and on the platform, butit's...
It's still Twitter and still referred to as Twitter.
Now, with that, the water represents the ability to implement change.
And in all of the things we've just talked about with adversity, it's often coincided withthe need for a change process.
So Kate, how do you approach the implementation of new initiatives in education, ensuringthat changes you bring are effective and positively received by both staff and students?
(26:41):
So first, I'm a learner.
I love to learn.
So when I think about my leadership skills and stuff is I need to take that time toresearch, I've mentioned before, and just find out whatever I can.
So whatever this new change is or this new initiative that's coming down, I want to makesure that I fully understand it before I'm discussing it with the staff, right?
because whether or not it's something that we necessarily love or would want to doourselves.
(27:04):
I got to figure out the why and how it's going to impact the kids first.
And I want to make that relevant then for our staff members.
Again, knowing my staff members and building those relationships, I think it helps me tobetter understand like how to approach something new or a change throughout our school.
And so, you know, the more I can learn about it and learn, hopefully already know a lotabout the staff is in trying to connect that.
(27:29):
help make that connection, help them see the value in something.
Especially if it's something that say my principal and I are really wanting to dodifferently in the school year.
How can we build that buy -in?
And we all know it comes back from the why.
I feel like I'm kind of cliche, like I'm picking up all these different leaders and stuffand the thing, right?
But Simon Sinek talks about the why of why we do things.
(27:50):
ultimately I believe in my heart that teachers want to do what is right.
they want to do what is best for kids.
You don't get into education, obviously, you don't get into education for the money, youget into education because you want to do what's right for kids.
so sometimes we might have to show them that impact and help them to understand thatbefore we can move forward.
But involving them in that process, grappling with them, that's gonna help to include themin that and help them to see that one more.
(28:14):
So yeah, we will, sometimes things will happen.
whether, you know, the state level or wherever, and we say, okay, let's get with thestaff, let's talk about this with them and let's see what they think.
Like, let's pose some questions, right?
Include them in that conversation.
And so, you know, I think that's gonna make it a whole lot more effective and they'regonna receive that better so that then obviously the students can benefit from whatever
(28:38):
that is.
But, you know, how do they see this impacting their students?
How do they see it impacting their instruction?
Because again,
they know their kids best.
They know their classroom the best.
They know what they've already got in place.
And so hopefully if we can get that feedback from them and involve them in thatconversation, whatever that change thing is, we can work through that together.
(28:59):
But also being willing to be flexible and be willing to say, that's a great point.
I hadn't thought about that.
And that's that vulnerability piece again, right?
So maybe they'll bring up something and I'm like, huh.
You know, I was looking at it from this perspective.
I hadn't thought about it from that perspective.
Let me think some more.
Let me do some more research.
Let me get back to you on that because that's a great question.
(29:21):
And maybe we need to figure a little something else out with it.
But change, I mean, it doesn't, it can't just be, hey, we're doing this because I said so,right?
I mean, we know that.
Like you can't do that.
It's not gonna have that lasting impact.
it, it's not gonna be positively received like you mentioned.
So if the staff have a negative perspective on it, the way that it's delivered to the kidsis not obviously gonna be what's best.
(29:44):
Kate, you are speaking my language through and through here.
I'm a massive Simon Sinek fan myself.
The people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it.
Such a powerful quote and to really unpack that.
On top of that, here's a thought for anybody that's listening.
So alchemists, we are talking in a realm of education, but the message of beingtransparent, building trust, understanding the why, doing what's best, this is any
(30:08):
organization, wherever you're leading, wherever you're a part of.
This is why, and you know, I did an episode with Danny Kofke, who authored the book, TheWealthy Teacher.
This is why he shared a stat that says, the highest ranked profession for people becomingmillionaires is teachers.
Because they know how to root back to these values and lead with these values and becomeentrepreneurs and business owners and lead other organizations after to set themselves up
(30:33):
for success because they are doing the right things in leadership.
Now, you said that we keep coming back to the same theme of why.
We also keep coming back to the same topic of MTSS.
So in your experience, and in your experience with it and curriculum, what strategies doyou use to ensure that changes you implement are fluid and adaptable, meeting the needs of
(30:54):
all students and educators?
And that's a goal, right, of MTSS is that we're meeting the needs of all students.
When I talked before about kind of having to create a little bit of change and revampingour, you know, before we kind of referred more to as our RTI program, that was the big
part of it is we had these umbrella interventions as we always looked at them of, youknow, a student would be below grade level in reading, okay?
(31:17):
But every student that was below grade level in reading was getting the same intervention.
Well, that...
It may not be the same for each student.
The struggle may not have been the same.
Maybe one student was struggling with their fluency.
Maybe they're decoding their accuracy.
Or maybe one student was discovering with or struggling with the comprehension piece.
So you can't group them together just because they're below grade level in reading orbelow grade level in math.
(31:41):
They can't, you can't have those umbrella interventions.
So you have to have that alignment.
So of course, figuring out what the student's struggle is first.
We do a lot of benchmark assessments at the beginning of the year.
I'm sure everyone's kind of in the midst of all of that right now.
If they haven't already and say we do a lot of screening and a lot of kind of where arekids at?
Where are you at right now?
What have you learned?
(32:02):
What are you applying, you know, into your reading or to your math or whatever it is?
And then even further, so if we recognize that yes, they need a little bit of growth intheir reading, they're, below grade level and but why?
So then we start to look at those different components of reading and we have somespecific screeners that we'll use.
And these are just things that I've found over the years.
So our benchmark assessments certainly, you know, come kind of more from the district, butthen there's so much out there about just trying to narrow down that focus.
(32:28):
You know, obviously you can't work on comprehension necessarily if you're thinking aboutjust pure reading comprehension with a student until they can actually read the words,
until they can decode those words.
You've got to get that phonics down first.
And so things build on each other, but we've got to identify the problem first for thatparticular student.
And what works for one student may not work for another student, and that's okay.
So no more umbrella interventions.
(32:50):
We really try to align the struggle to the intervention, and then of course to theprogress monitoring probe so we can see if things are working.
We've got to collect that data in some way.
The way we do our MTSS process at my school is very flexible.
my support teachers that I work with and I'm so grateful for them because they certainlyare just an amazing team and definitely help, you know, kind of brainstorm all these
(33:14):
ideas, but their schedules are very flexible.
You know, they might be in this classroom for a little bit, then this classroom, they'rebouncing around, they're pulling this one kid, they're pulling this one kid because those
kids are all throughout different classes.
So, I mean...
For a type, probably most teachers, I feel like not all, but you know, kind of type A.
And we like things that are organized, at least at my school that's how they are.
It's not always like that.
(33:35):
And it is, they've got to be flexible to know that every day their schedule might be alittle different.
And as kids demonstrate struggles or hopefully progress and growth, then their schedulesare gonna change a little bit again.
And so we really try to have that flexibility.
We don't predetermine any groups or anything like that, but we create them as we'rediscussing the students.
And so that allows us for that alignment.
(33:57):
Ultimately, it's what's best for that kid.
And then of course, what does the data say?
We rely very heavy on data.
And so again, I'm a self -proclaimed data nerd, guess.
I love a good spreadsheet with a formula and it will calculate all the data for me.
we kind of joke and have different.
sayings in our meetings and I'm always like, but what does the data say?
(34:19):
But what does the data say?
You know, and it kind of goes back to that.
It's not, I think that they're struggling with this or I think this would be good.
What does the data say that makes you think that?
We've got to get it back to that.
You know, without data, it's just your opinion.
So we've got to have the data to kind of back that up.
And we are very systematic with collecting that data.
(34:39):
I think it's also important to note that the data isn't just
like the progress monitoring, you know, as far as looking at the graphs, but it is thatobservational data that teachers see in the classroom, the behavioral data that they see,
you know, if you give a student a whole page of subtraction problems and they flip, youknow, so that they always make sure that the larger numbers on top are, you know, in the
(34:59):
ones place or whatever, and they flip that, that's a piece of data.
Because that goes back to, we've got to teach the student, you know, what all of this evenmeans and what the place value, how that all works.
That's an important data too, we have those conversations.
So, you know, I think the, like I said, the alignment, the data, having that growthmindset.
(35:20):
That is 100%, a huge, huge piece of it, and I share that with my teachers constantly, justthroughout the year, just to keep that in mind.
Because again, when you're sitting there all day long, and you're talking about kids whostruggle, because that's who we focus on, right?
During those meetings most of the time are those kids who are having a hard time.
it can be really hard, but we have to have that growth mindset of, no, maybe they're notready for that yet, but we can help them get to that.
(35:45):
And then also, you know, believe in kind of systems.
So that systematic approach to things, James Clear, if you've read the book, AtomicHabits, it's a really awesome book.
I love that, especially as being kind of the organized person that I am, but you know, hesays in there, you don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your
systems.
So I've worked really hard to create this system, this whole MTSS system, so that there'sa clear outline of the process, that teachers are aware of what's gonna happen.
(36:12):
It's intentional, it's organized, it's data -based, and it's efficient, because we allknow there's never any time.
So we've got to get through, we've gotta talk about these things, and we've got to reflecton that as educators ourselves.
And then I know this is like a huge answer, so I told you, I like, I could talk about MTSSall day, but,
The last two things I would really say on that is focus on tier one instruction first.
(36:32):
We talk a lot about that and we've changed some things as far as our expectations withtier one instruction because of things that came out through our MTSS process.
You know, if you have a whole class struggling in one particular area, that's not a kidissue.
That's an instructional issue.
That's a tier one issue.
And so we've got to fix that.
And then we've mentioned before about the expectations.
(36:54):
Students.
will rise to what you put on them.
And so we have to have those high expectations throughout our MTSS process.
Even if they are coming to us and they are in fifth grade and they are reading on a quoteunquote first grade level, they can still learn to read.
They can still grow.
They can still do that.
And it's our job as the adults to help them understand that expectation that it's, youjust haven't got it yet.
(37:20):
We got this.
Don't worry.
Like we're here to support that.
So think that was a really probably long answer, but I think hits on, again, it's thosestrategies and core values that make it work.
And I've been really fortunate to have worked in a couple of schools where I have beenable to see the positive change when you kind of follow this system.
And I'll just add to that as well, alchemists, it's so important to establish it as a data-driven or a data -informed decision -making process, not a data -only decision -making
(37:50):
process.
If you rely solely on your data, and I know I flip between data and data here all thetime.
Nobody knows, nobody knows.
So if you focus solely on what the data says,
you are never going to get the practicality and the applicability and the actualapplication.
You're just taking your theory results and you're saying, hey, this says it works, let'stry it.
(38:13):
And it might not work in your scenario.
So it needs to be a data driven or a data informed decision, not that data only.
Now, Kate, I wanna jump to the fire element, which embodies the decision making and risktaking.
So what has been one of the riskiest decisions you've made in your educational career,particularly,
related to curriculum or professional learning and what was the outcome?
(38:35):
So I, probably one of the riskiest was probably quitting after the first year without anykind of plan in mind.
That was certainly like my 23 year old, like, I've followed everything step by step andI'm not really sure.
But it was, you know, again, a risk, but definitely was something I grew from and was ableto learn from.
(38:55):
really when we talk about curriculum and professional learning, and I think I've alreadysaid it, is that full revamp.
of the MTSS process because it was different than what had been done in my district and inmy school.
And I was still pretty new to leadership.
And so I still was working with teachers.
And to be honest, I I started in leadership in my very early 30s.
(39:17):
And so a lot of teachers are probably looking at me like, who is this young AP that'scoming in and trying to tell us what to do?
and so it was a big kind of risk, I think, to take.
And thankfully I was supported by some great leaders who said, you know, okay, you know,you've got this.
I had all these ideas and it was, like I said, before the whole big movement was kind ofreally coming out.
(39:38):
And I just knew that there had to be a better way, that it wasn't working doing thoseumbrella interventions.
And so, it was a risk because I didn't know, you know, I didn't have any, any datanecessarily to support this is going to promote change.
This is going to help our students succeed, but I really believed it in my heart.
And it just, it kind of made sense to me.
But I had to figure out how to make it make sense to everybody else.
(40:00):
And it was going to be impacting the entire school.
You know, at the time I was at a K -5 school.
And so I thought, okay, if this fails, if all these ideas that I have and all this, ifthis fails, there's a lot of kids who are going to be impacted by that.
But I believed in the research.
I believed in what our staff was capable of.
and kind of just had to move forward with that and have that confidence.
(40:20):
So yeah, I think that was probably, I know it doesn't, mean, I don't know if it's a huge,huge risk in it, but anytime you're changing something in a school, right, it's gonna be a
risk because ultimately it impacts kids.
We're talking about people's babies.
And so, you know, it's taking that risk of just, we've got to try something different.
You know, it.
(40:41):
what's the definition of insanity, know, if you always do the same thing but expectdifferent results.
And so it was like, okay, we can't expect anything different unless we change something.
And so we had to go back to that beginning and change that.
Absolutely, and from all of my episodes prior whenever we talk about risk, we alwaysassociate it with our core values and you say, you know, if the risk you're taking is
(41:01):
rooted in your core values, kind of alluding to what you just said here, it doesn't feellike a big risk.
It just feels like a change.
And that's the important part to it.
Now with that though, risk taking is often, it's necessary for growth.
Absolutely.
encourage educators to take these calculated risks in their teaching practices and how doyou support them through the process?
(41:24):
We talk about a lot about being brave.
When I say we, I'm talking about my principal at my school, just at my school's kind ofmindset and stuff, but myself is encouraging them just to be brave.
And building that relationship first with them, again, kind of back to thoserelationships, allows me to support them better when I want them to hopefully take that
(41:44):
risk and to try different things.
And I've got some teachers even that...
just to kind of give you a little background, they come to my office and say, hey, I'mreally sorry, can I ask you a question?
And I say, hold up, first of all, you're not gonna apologize.
Second of all, of course you can't, like that's my job.
And so I'll make them go back and just kind of say, hey, Katie, I've got a quick questionfor you.
(42:05):
Okay, cool, that's why I'm here.
Don't apologize for asking those questions.
But I think for them, it's a risk.
Hopefully not because of me, I think it's just they don't want to bother you if you'rebusy or whatever it is.
So that's I think just a big part of working with them to believe in themselves and tounderstand their value and how much they bring.
(42:25):
to the school is gonna be really important first and that empowerment, right?
And so again, if they feel empowered, if I've cultivated that relationship with them wherethey feel empowered, then they're going to take these risks.
They're gonna try these things.
again, I mean, I feel like probably a broken record.
Give them grace.
I tell them, give yourself grace.
I pull from my past experiences and be vulnerable with them.
(42:46):
I was actually just talking to a first -year teacher yesterday.
I saw her.
And I asked, how's the first year going?
And she's, you know, it's a little rough.
And I said, it is, isn't it?
Like it is really rough.
I said, let me tell you about my story.
Let me tell you, you know, what it took for me to push past that first year.
I said, you have got to give yourself grace.
(43:07):
You are not going to be a perfect teacher your first year.
You're not going to be a perfect teacher.
You're 20, right?
You're going to grow and you're going to learn and it's going to get easier.
But you've got to give yourself grace.
That's so important.
And so I think knowing that, that they can take that risk and that if it fails, they cangive themselves grace and I'm gonna give them that grace too.
(43:29):
So, you know, what's the worst that can happen?
Okay, so that lesson that you wanna try, you wanna be innovative, you wanna do this, youwanna take this risk with this lesson, and if it fails, okay.
You know, you lost 45 minutes, you lost an instructional period, you can get that back.
You know, we have them, I know we always, there's never any time, but we have them for 180days.
(43:49):
We can fix that.
There's really not much, you know, obviously if we're following ethics and everything,there's not much that we can mess up that we can't fix.
As long as we take those risks, we give ourselves grace, you know, and we collaborate andwork together.
You know, I always tell them, tell me first, or like tell me if something happens, come tome first and I'll help you fix that.
Don't obviously try to, you know, brush it under the rug or anything, but...
(44:13):
Anyways, as far as like in their teaching practices, I always think of, you know, it'sthat servant leadership.
I'm their cheerleader.
I tell them, I'm gonna be your biggest hype person.
You wanna try that, but you're not sure, let's do it.
Like, let me help you talk it through with me, practice it with me first.
I wanna straighten their crown so that they can try those different things because that'show you learn.
That's what we've asked with kids is we want them to take risks.
(44:35):
We want them to be brave in their learning.
So the teachers and the staff, want them to do that too.
I also think, you know, having hard conversations, they don't have to be meanconversations.
So sitting down with a teacher and maybe I'm, you know, trying to motivate them to trysomething new because something new needs to happen in their classroom.
(44:55):
It doesn't have to be, I don't have to be mean about it, but I can have that hardconversation with them because I've built that relationship with them.
And I can say, you know what, I see you, I've got you, like, let's do this, I'm with you.
If you try it and it fails, again, I am still with you.
You know, of course it's hard, especially when you're, you know, they look at me, I'mtheir evaluator.
(45:16):
I'm gonna evaluate them on what they do, but I'm not, if I know this is something that isa risk for them, I'm not gonna evaluate that on that.
You let, you tell me when you're ready and then I can come and I can give you thatfeedback.
But it's just that whole...
Again, that growth mindset, those relationships, I mean, all those people, you know, kindof come together and having high expectations for them and cultivating those high
(45:40):
expectations in their own mindset is just what I would want someone to do for me, youknow?
And so I have to treat them that same way.
And I saw a quote somewhere on social media, you know, and I think you might have hit onthis at the beginning, holding people to their greatness is one of the most loving actions
that we can take.
And if I'm really serving the staff in my school,
I have to hold them to their greatness.
So I can't let them settle for just the same old, same old.
(46:02):
I've got to help push them to be brave.
Yep, bringing it back to high expectations is an act of love.
Now, I think I know where this is going, but Kate, what are you hoping people action intheir lives tomorrow from your message?
I think being impactful doesn't have to be complicated.
It can be simple.
can have a large impact by doing simple better.
(46:24):
And again, that empowerment piece.
So I hope that people hear and feel empowered so that they can go and feel empowered andthen they can empower others, right?
To have that reach, to have that connection.
I hope that...
the staff or educators out there listening, leaders out there listening, I hope that theycan take away that they can rise to those expectations, that they can hold high
(46:45):
expectations for themselves and for others.
And so then as society, I mean, we're just all gonna grow better if we all do our littlepart, right?
If we all hold expectations high for our kids and we all hold high expectations forourselves, then society is gonna get better and better.
But that's what we want, right?
So hopefully people will feel empowered.
Hopefully they'll understand the role of collaboration and teamwork so that we can justkind of create a better place.
(47:10):
That's what we're all here for, So I don't know 100%.
I have two little kids, so I'm sticking, you know, kind of where I'm at right now,hopefully.
But I would love, you know, to be more involved in professional learning and leadershipcoaching in general.
So that's one thing that I'm hoping with the business that I've got is something thatcould hopefully
(47:31):
know, take off in the future is working and talking and collaborating with other leaders,especially new leaders.
I definitely have a passion for that, just like I do with new teachers, of helping them torealize their potential.
Let me straighten your crown for you.
Let me be the person that's here if you fall.
I want to, you know, I got you.
I wanna help support you.
I wanna push you back up when you fall because you're gonna fall.
We all do.
(47:52):
We all make mistakes or we all fail at things.
So I would love to...
kind of expand that part of the business.
Right now it's the resources and sharing that, which I love.
But ultimately my goal would be doing some professional learning with schools or withleaders and doing some coaching along with that, I think would be a really great kind of
goal of mine.
how can people get a hold of you if they want to connect and explore those avenues?
(48:15):
Yeah, awesome.
it's Kate Hunter Design is kind of the name of my little business here.
So right now I'm just on Instagram.
It sounds like I might need to be moving on to Twitter slash X to collaborate a little bitmore.
But Kate Hunter Design on Instagram in my bio, I've got a link that'll take you to just asmall little website that has some additional information about those opportunities.
(48:36):
You know, it's about the leadership coaching, it's about professional development and it'sabout.
creating systems and organizational pieces that schools can use.
There's different avenues through that website.
Also just shoot me an email.
It's a little bit longer.
It's Kate Hunter, digitaldesign at gmail .com.
But I love talking about and collaborating with other leaders, other educators, and I'dlove to continue those conversations for sure.
(49:00):
Alchemsists make sure you check the description of this episode for all of those contactlinks.
And if you're still listening, thank you so much for tuning in.
I'm your host Tyler, and it has been my absolute pleasure to connect with Kate Hunter onthe Elemental Educator podcast.
Kate, thank you so much for taking time out of your day.
and honestly, the pleasure is all mine.
I love getting to share this message with the world and it's such a good message to share.
(49:22):
thanks again for joining.
appreciate that.
So I hope that people hear and feel empowered so that they can go and feel empowered andthen they can empower others, right?
(00:07):
To have that reach, to have that connection.
Hi Alchemists and welcome back to another episode of Elemental Educator.
(00:30):
I'm your host Tyler and if you're joining us for the first time, thank you so very muchfor tuning in and welcome to a place where we redefine leadership and challenge the status
quo.
Be sure to like, follow, and subscribe to Elemental Educator on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,or wherever you get your podcasts from.
And check out our website, elementaleducator .com.
Get ready to let the alchemy of education ignite your passion for learning.
(00:51):
Today we're joined by Kate Hunter.
Kate is an expert in elementary education, MTSS and professional learning.
Kate brings a wealth of knowledge in curriculum design, relationship building and dataorganization.
Today we'll explore her insights on grounded mindsets, navigating change and the art oftaking risks.
Kate is passionate about positively impacting educators and students.
(01:13):
She's excited to share her journey as she embarks on growing her new small business.
Kate, welcome to the Elemental Educator podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Absolutely, and I'm hearing it is your first podcast, so I hope it is an amazingexperience, makes you want to do more and maybe start your own one day.
You never know.
yeah, that sounds fun.
I would love to.
(01:33):
I love talking about education.
It's obviously something I'm very passionate about, so I think, you know, that helps makethe nerves go away a little bit more since I know we're just going to be talking about
what I love.
Yeah, and let's start by getting into exactly what you love.
How did you get to where you are now?
So probably like many people who started an education, I was always the kid playingschool.
(01:53):
I was always the teacher lined up all my stuffed animals and my baby dolls and I wasteaching them.
I was the one who asked the teacher for extra copies and handouts and all that kind ofstuff so could take it home to pretend with all of my friends.
And then just as I got older, I realized I really did enjoy that leadership opportunitythat came with that too.
So whether it was.
I played basketball and just working with the other teammates on the basketball team andkind of coaching them through different things.
(02:18):
I realized obviously my passion is in that and helping others and serving others throughleadership.
And so I taught for about 10 years.
I actually just it's kind of a side note, which you know we may get to later.
I taught my first year and I hated it and so I quit.
But then I quickly realized that you know first years are everybody should hate them.
(02:40):
because they're tough and so I got back into it thankfully and I have now been inleadership as an assistant principal.
This is my seventh year and so just kind of learning and growing as I go and you know thatkind of is where I'm at here as I was in admin and in kind of those first couple years
looking for resources and looking for ideas and looking for ways to collaborate withothers.
(03:01):
I just realized
there's not a lot of resources.
You know, at least six years ago, there's not a ton for elementary school leaders orprobably all levels of leaders.
And so I kind of started thinking as I got more comfortable in what I was doing, why notshare this with others?
Put things out there, start your own community.
At my school, there's only one assistant principal, so it's me.
(03:21):
And there's not a lot of opportunities for collaboration, you know, other than obviouslywith my principal and other assistant principals in the district.
But I wanted to kind of build that community as well because
I love my job, but what we do is tough.
Anybody who works in education, it is tough.
that's kind of where I started seeing there was an impact to Simple Solutions, anorganization, and my staff at school always kind of calls me a nerd about spreadsheets.
(03:45):
And I said, that's fine, but spreadsheets work.
So let's do this, and started to share that.
What a great story.
And I like that it really started with, you instantly said that teachers are leaders andthere's a misconception around whether or not they are.
They absolutely are 100%.
They lead their classroom.
They lead their little communities.
They are leaders and they need to have leadership skills and leadership traits.
(04:07):
And that first year, you know, even within the five year burnout, it's because they don'tteach you in school, all the little logistics behind what you're actually getting into in
education.
But
you know, having it rooted in your passion to help and to help learn, that's why you cameback.
And so it's great to hear how that story unfolds.
(04:29):
Now with that, on my show, the earth represents core values and rooting yourself inbeliefs.
So Kate, how do you maintain a grounded mindset in your work as an educator?
And how do these core values guide your approach to relationship building and curriculumdevelopment?
So first of all, I think one big core value that I really took from that year, I guess offand coming back was you've got to give yourself grace.
(04:53):
You know, we're all humans.
We all make mistakes.
Things are hard and that's okay, but you've got to give yourself that grace.
Also, you know, think about just what's best for kids.
That's why we are in this.
think too often we sometimes we forget, you know, when you're there's
deadlines and there's new curriculum coming out and you know everything's kind of comingfrom the top but really what it comes down to it is these are kids.
(05:16):
We're talking you know depending on what age group you work with we're talking you knowfive years old, ten years old and I'll tell you a huge part of that was becoming a mom
myself.
I definitely became a better educator when I had children and just seeing what they whatthey're experiencing and their mindsets on everything.
So I often think about
well, you what if my kid was at the school?
(05:37):
And my kids do come to my school.
And so it's like, well, if my kid's in that class, you know, and my kid's not any moreimportant than any other child.
I actually had an assistant principal when I was teaching tell me, I had a student thatwas, you know, little bit of a struggle at building that connection and that relationship
with her.
And she said, you know, remember, somebody used to rock her to sleep.
I thought, ugh.
(05:58):
Like it was, she got me good, because it was right after I had my first son.
And I said, you're right.
Like yes, she might be hard to connect with, but she's a child.
Like we're talking about a baby, you know what I here.
And so that's just kind of, it has definitely been my approach to everything that I feellike I do.
I want to have high expectations for students, because I think that they can rise to theexpectations that we set on them.
(06:19):
As adults, we have a lot of influence over that, and kids believe what we tell them,whether that's telling them in our words to them, our body language, our actions.
how we respond to things and kids will rise to what we expect of them.
I also am, you know, try to be a service leader and really supporting the teachers.
And so that relationship building is a huge part of that for me because I know and as mosteducators know, we're not going to get anything accomplished until they know that we care
(06:46):
about them, right?
And so we've got to build that relationship first.
There's a something that actually my sister told me a long time ago.
She's a leader in a different
kind of avenue, I guess, but it's this idea of having a presence, you know, so inclassrooms, having a presence in their classrooms, which builds that relationship, which
builds trust, and then you get to have that influence.
(07:07):
So as a leader, if I can do that with the staff, then I can build those relationships,then ultimately I can hopefully have that positive influence on so many more kids.
You know, when we're in the classroom, we have an amazing influence on the kids that we'rewith, but as a leader, I can influence all 45 classrooms in my school.
by building those relationships with them.
So, you know, it just really comes down to, like I said, what's gonna be best for the kidsin the long run?
(07:30):
What would I want for my kids?
And also at the same time, though, keeping it simple.
It doesn't have to be complicated.
That's huge for me.
That's a lot of what I do, I think, in my little small business that I have is we don'thave to make this super complex.
Again, it's about caring about kids and helping them grow.
So do simple better.
That's kind of my philosophy.
Now we could run an entire show just off of that response right there.
(07:55):
There's so much that we can continue to unpack.
No, that's exactly what we want to get to Kate.
And one of my favorite quotes is, expectations is an act of love, low expectations is anact of apathy.
So setting high expectations and continually setting high expectations is so beneficial.
And doing what's best for kids is so, so, so important in the profession that we're in.
(08:18):
And...
You know, I just had Jodie Carrington on here who's a psychologist in Alberta and youknow, we'll have Dr.
Greg Wells coming later in the year as well.
And they send a very powerful message too, which is to do what's best for kids, you alsohave to do what's best for your staff, right?
And so you do need to think of this holistically.
You do need to take care of your staff.
You do need to take care of the adults around to take care of the kids.
(08:39):
And that segues to when you're referring to rocking to sleep, you have to take care oftheir parents.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yep.
You have to, because, because like you said, I'm a, I'm a first time dad.
There are so many things I don't know as, as a parent either.
And it would be so helpful if somebody reached out and said, Hey, you should try doingthis.
If you're seeing this and I can go home and try it and see if it works.
(09:00):
Right?
So, so that holistic community, that a group approach of you are all there for the kid andrecognizing that makes your life a lot easier.
Absolutely, yeah, we want to partner with the parents and families or whatever that lookslike, you know, for the students because it's ultimately it's for the kids.
So, yeah.
in your experience with MTSS and professional learning, how do you ensure that thefoundational aspects of education are grounded in strong values that benefit both
(09:26):
educators and students?
So definitely what's best for kids is kind of the start of that, of just making sure thatthat is our perspective on everything.
But our goal, you know, I guess with that, and this is, I talk a lot with our staff at thebeginning of every single year.
I'm very obviously involved in the MTSS process at my school, and we talk a lot about whatour goal is.
(09:48):
Our goal is to provide students with the supports they need to be successful in whateverway that looks like.
And that's not always gonna look the same for every kid.
I tell my staff that back at the very beginning of my career in leadership, and I don'tmean this in a negative way against anyone, but sometimes the conversation was more about
what do we have to do to get this child into special ed?
Special ed's great, but that's not our goal when we have a student that is at the verybeginning of their educational journey.
(10:13):
We gotta figure this out first.
We've gotta problem solve a little bit.
And so we definitely take that problem solving approach and that team approach so thatwe're working together.
hard.
We know when you're supporting kids in an MTSS process and the way we do it at our school,we are pretty much, you know, we meet with each grade level all day long.
So our support team.
And when you are talking about students that are struggling all day long, it's impossibleto not leave with just that like deflated, discouraged feeling.
(10:41):
And so we have to do it together though.
So that's what we always say, hey guys, we are a team.
Even if a teacher doesn't have someone
that is necessarily on a tier that we're talking about that day, they're gonna participatein that meeting too because they might have had a student just like that last year.
And it's that whole idea with John Hattie's research about teacher efficacy, is these areall our students.
(11:03):
It is not just the kids in your classroom.
It is the kids that we're working with all of them.
We want all of our students to have that opportunity to grow.
And so, yeah, so we do.
We have that problem solving approach, that team approach.
But also what's really going to be important for us is that circle of control.
So for example, I can't control if a child has a medical inability to focus.
(11:24):
You that often comes up at schools.
I know it least does mine.
well, they can't focus.
They're distracted.
That's not, that's out of my control.
That's way their brain works.
I also think it's shifting that perception about that too.
You you hear a kid has ADHD.
That's just the way their brain works.
There's nothing wrong.
It's just the brain works a little bit differently.
And so we can't control that, but we can control, you know, making sure that we have somereally engaging lessons, that we hook them in to the lesson, that as I'm, you know, a
(11:50):
teacher is walking around the classroom, they're providing that teacher proximity andthose nonverbal signals taps on the shoulder just to bring that child back.
We can't control what happens to a student before they get to our class, but we cancontrol the way we respond to them.
Maybe they come in and they're grumpy, they throw their book bag down.
If our response is, my gosh, what are you doing?
(12:10):
That child doesn't feel welcome at school.
That child, it's gonna perpetuate that feeling for them.
But if we say, hey, seems like something happened this morning.
Do you wanna talk about it?
Do you need a minute?
If we can, as the adults, have that kind of second and that reaction, I think it's gonnabe a whole lot better off.
We also talk about attendance a lot.
You know, can't always control attendance at the elementary school level.
(12:33):
It's a little different, I know, when you're in high school because the students have moreof a choice there.
But at the elementary school level, it's not their fault if they're not there most of thetime.
You know, and so that's part of what you mentioned before about partnering with parents.
and I'm kind of probably segueing a little different here, but we do like attendancesuccess meetings where we sit down with the parents and we ask them, what's the struggle
to getting your child here on time and how can we help with that?
(12:56):
But it's that whole foundation of we're in this together, we want to help, you know, thegoal is for them to succeed.
They have to be at school to succeed.
But if you know, if a student walks into my class or to a teacher's classroom and, youknow, they hadn't been there for a couple days and the teacher says, were you out again?
That kid's not going to want to come to school.
(13:17):
if they say, my gosh, I'm so happy to see you.
I'm so glad you're here today.
I'll help you get caught up.
Let's just go ahead and get unpacked.
you know, the class will be excited to see you when you get in there.
It's just that whole mindset shift, I think, of we're the adults and how we respond tothings is how it's going to create a different, whole different perception for the kids.
(13:37):
So yeah, that's a big part.
So that our overall goal, you know, is for kids to have success for that problem solvingprocess.
Let's sit down.
Let's figure this out.
Let's, you know, all work together.
to figure this out.
then just having mentioned, you those high expectations.
So what if a kid has a reading disability?
That's the way their brain works.
They can still read, they can still grow.
(13:59):
But sometimes we have to shift that and our staff members shift that viewpoint for sure.
That's exactly it.
And Kate, you wouldn't have been able to listen to my last four episodes because they'renot out yet.
They're recorded.
But everything that you just spoke to is everything we unpack in them from Hattie'sVisible Matrix and Talking Collective Teacher Efficacy.
to the idea of the holistic child and putting the kid first.
(14:22):
It is so rooted in your value.
And you you talked about segueing a bit to share what your school does for attendance.
That's not a segue because you talked about a holistic approach to supporting the kid,which was how you rooted it in your core values.
So it's great to hear.
With that, I wanna shift away from the school a little bit because you do have your smallbusiness venture going on.
And so what core values are you focusing on to ensure it creates a lasting value foreducators and positively impact students?
(14:49):
So kind of a lot of the same things, right?
I can't separate who I am as an educator and a leader, but it's intentionality and justkind of what we do, again, as leaders or as educators, if we're intentional with that, we
can have lasting change with that.
I also am a really big, I guess, cheerleader or proponent of empowerment.
(15:10):
So the saying empowered people empower people.
So if I can empower other educators through this small business and this little communitythat I've started, then they'll empower others.
And then again, it's just that reach.
It keeps getting larger and larger.
And hopefully that means empowering students and empowering parents as well.
So the things that I really have tried to create with this business are, first of all, arethings that I use in the school.
(15:33):
So they're genuine and they're applicable because I get it.
I'm right there.
You know, I'm in the school systems, but they're simple.
They're not meant to be hard.
And I definitely, I'm a very organized person.
And so that simple, efficient, organized resources are what I find to work best because wealready all work hard.
So I kind of, my little slogan always, you know, which is like work smarter, not harder.
(15:57):
Like we can do this if we, you one, connect with each other and two, we have thesedifferent resources to do things.
It doesn't have to be difficult.
Now it sounds a little leader in me -ish when you talk about the idea of empowerment.
So what would you suggest, if somebody is trying to get to a stage where they just focuson empowerment, what's the first thing they can be doing to create that within their
(16:19):
organization?
I mean, relationship building, for sure.
It goes back to that.
They've got to have that presence, even in their school building.
So one of my favorite things is I go around every morning, or about every morning.
Sometimes I have meetings or things come up, as we all know, and say good morning to eachclass.
(16:40):
it takes, you know, it depends.
It takes 15 minutes sometimes.
It can take an hour sometimes, just depending on what else is going on.
But I just go in, I say good morning, I tell the kids I'm glad that they're here, but Ialso connect with the teachers that way too.
And so that gives me an opportunity if they have a quick question or they need me to havea quick chat with a student, I'm out and about in the school building.
(17:02):
Of course, I try to be in the building as much as possible anyways, but that morning kindof time they know most likely I'm gonna be coming around.
And so they don't have to try to find me in the hustle and bustle of morning arrival,because they know I'm going to come around in the morning.
And so it's that, hey, real quick, I need to ask you this question.
But I guess in building that presence or having that presence and building thatrelationship helps to build that trust.
(17:27):
And so then when I can say to them, hey, what about this idea?
Or you are very capable of this.
Have you thought about putting this out there?
They know that they can trust me, that I'm not gonna lead them astray, hopefully, and thatI'm gonna ask them to put whatever they can in it just try something new and know that I'm
there, I guess, cheer them on with that too.
(17:50):
So it's about creating that safe space for them to be a little bit of innovative in theirprocesses.
And one thing that I like to do, and it's a hard thing to do, is I love to do a lot.
And as a leader in a building, you need to come up with a list of things you don't need tobe doing that you're still doing.
And within that list, what can you be asking others to do and to help out with?
(18:12):
You'll be surprised with how many people are excited to jump on and take on that rolebecause they are feeling like a part of your leadership team at that point.
Now, with your own venture and with walking around and all of the things you're doing,you're probably faced with a lot of adversity, a lot of distraction, a lot of challenges,
and this is more of the air element where we start to deal with how we overcome those.
(18:35):
So Kate, how have you navigated the challenges of implementing changes within educationalsystems?
Maybe especially when it comes to adapting curriculum and professional learning to meetdiverse needs.
Yeah, so one thing that was probably a little hard for me to learn as I got intoleadership was that change takes time.
I'm a problem solver.
I want to just like get in.
(18:55):
I want to fix something right away.
But I've had some other great leaders that have talked to me about, know, it takes time.
You you can't can't turn the Titanic, you know, instantaneously.
You've got to allow yourself that time and that grace to help to create that, you know,change, whatever it is.
And it's
it's not gonna be easy and that's okay.
Again, it's okay if things are hard.
(19:16):
I've talked a lot about the relationships and just teachers are gonna trust me when theyknow that I care about them.
And a lot of that is that vulnerability.
So I'm a big fan of Brene Brown too.
And so we talk a lot about, or she talks a lot about vulnerability.
And I think it's just...
be like being open and sharing my stories and sharing.
I mean, I've talked to them about, hey, I had a really difficult time with this studentonce and this is what my admin had to tell me and this is what I had to work through.
(19:41):
I know, you know, I kind of know what you're going through.
I always tell them that I try not to be too far removed from the classroom, right?
As leaders, you know, it's always that, they don't remember what it's like to be in theclassroom, but I try to say, you know, no, like I do remember and I try to be in their
classrooms to actually like experience that with them.
but I think just kind of implementing that change is that grace that we have to giveourselves, and that vulnerability to let's include others.
(20:07):
This is a collaborative approach, right?
So education can't just be from one person and telling everybody else to what to do.
and, building them up and then empowerment.
I mean, it all comes together.
say like, you know, your kids best, like, you know what they need, like, let's worktogether with this.
and just having that, that relationship though.
I mean, it all.
We know everything in education goes back to those relationships first, for sure.
(20:29):
So you talk about change being a process, not an event, and it takes time to go through.
Can you share a time when you had to be, we'll say, particularly fluid in your approach tochange, whether in curriculum development, data organization, and how you helped others
adjust to that change?
Yeah, so I think the big one that I could think about is my first admin job when I firstbecame assistant principal.
(20:57):
I took a lot of time, obviously, that first year to learn and just to ask questions about,why everything's done this way?
What could we do differently?
Or what would that look like?
But kind of revamping our MTSS process.
I've done it at two different schools now and I had some great success with both.
Kind of before the whole, you know, the MTSS with the multi -tiered system of supports is.
(21:18):
I feel like a more relative, at least where I am, newer kind of concept within the lastfew years.
And so was kind of on that, I guess that shift between, you know, just specific RTI,obviously I know it's a part of that, but to the whole MTSS process and...
helping to cultivate that in my school.
within that first year.
So again, the first year I learned a lot about that or how things were done there.
(21:41):
And then that summer, I spent a lot of time researching.
I spent a lot of time trying to figure out what works best and figuring out how can Ideliver this to the rest of the educators on our staff and how is it manageable, right?
So it's not meant to be another thing, but maybe we need to do something differently.
How can we make it effective?
So I had to believe it.
(22:01):
I had to believe in the why.
I had to explain that so that others would believe in that why and I had to be, know,quote unquote, in the trenches with the staff because it couldn't be something they
weren't going to buy into it if I just said, hey, you need to do this differently, thisdifferently, this differently.
It was like, hey, I got an idea.
Can we look at this?
Let's talk about this.
Let me pick your brain about this and just kind of being open myself.
(22:24):
I guess I think is that part of that particularly fluid part of being open and adaptingand being flexible.
And if they come and say, hey Kate, we've tried this.
Can we work through this a little bit more?
Can we workshop this?
know, and being open to say, yeah, like give me your thoughts.
Let's talk about this.
It's not just me.
I'm one person.
You know, I have one brain.
Let's share your thoughts on this and you know, what works best for your class.
(22:48):
what works best for the grade level, what works best for our school, let's figure that outtogether.
And if you think you can or can't, you're probably right.
Yeah, exactly.
my son's favorite little quotes, which I love that he loves that as a kid.
Yeah, there's a lot of power in its simplicity as well.
explaining the why behind the reason for doing things, it's so important because you getthat buy -in.
(23:14):
That's how you establish collective efficacy.
Everybody understands why they're doing something.
Now, segueing a bit from your admin role to your business side of things, that must befull of unexpected challenges too.
How are you applying your experience and education to embrace and adopt to the changes andchallenges you're encountering as a new entrepreneur?
(23:35):
So a lot of the same, I gotta give myself grace.
If I expect that from my staff members, I've gotta give that to myself too.
And it takes time, the change takes time, influence takes time, you know, and that'sobviously not my full -time job.
And so, you know, I love what I do and that is my full -time and so I've got to know, youknow what, sometimes maybe I don't have the energy to make a post or to do this about it.
(23:57):
I'm still so new in that arena.
I just have to try to
and intentionally seek out, okay, what are some opportunities that I can maybe collaboratewith others, you know, and what are some ways that I can learn from others and taking that
time, time and grace, I feel like are kind of the big, I guess, pieces of that and justreally building those same things for collaboration and that relationship building.
(24:21):
You know, there's people already that I've started to communicate with just through socialmedia.
that have similar ideas as I do or even a little bit of different ideas, but we candiscuss that and we can share and we can see different viewpoints so that I can take that
back and hopefully they can take something from what I've shared back and we can grapplewith that and then we can figure out how to make things better for everyone.
(24:42):
So I would definitely say giving grace, knowing that change and influence take time, butalso keeping things simple, right?
Just do simple better.
It doesn't have to be complicated.
I will say that even at my school I do the social media for our school, but it is simple.
It is sharing, you know, kids and everything and what we're doing and that is definitelysomething I need to learn a lot more about for the business side of, you know, all the
(25:08):
reels and the...
I don't even know what all they are, right?
All the hooks and all that kind of stuff.
I haven't learned that yet.
But I try to keep it simple and authentic.
that at least that community that's out there, maybe a small community right now, but likewhat you see is what you get.
This is who I am.
When I'm sharing ideas, again, it is stuff that I am using in my school.
I've used every single one of those things.
(25:29):
In fact, I actually, we were sitting in our first MTSS meetings of the school year lastweek and I thought, my gosh, like, wait a second, like we forgot all about that thing we
did last year and I went like to my store, you know, and kind of.
pulled it up because it was just faster to find it.
I was like, y 'all remember, like, we used this last year, like, why are we not using thisagain?
And so 100%, just being authentic with it.
(25:51):
And regardless of the size of the community, you still have outreach, you're stillinfluencing, and that's the powerful thing.
And if it's quality and it's effective, it will grow.
One thing I'm learning from people that I'm talking to is it's apparently still Twitter,if you're still on Twitter, although it has changed its name to X, but I guess if you're
(26:13):
an original, I'm trying to not say anything about being old and on the platform, butit's...
It's still Twitter and still referred to as Twitter.
Now, with that, the water represents the ability to implement change.
And in all of the things we've just talked about with adversity, it's often coincided withthe need for a change process.
So Kate, how do you approach the implementation of new initiatives in education, ensuringthat changes you bring are effective and positively received by both staff and students?
(26:41):
So first, I'm a learner.
I love to learn.
So when I think about my leadership skills and stuff is I need to take that time toresearch, I've mentioned before, and just find out whatever I can.
So whatever this new change is or this new initiative that's coming down, I want to makesure that I fully understand it before I'm discussing it with the staff, right?
because whether or not it's something that we necessarily love or would want to doourselves.
(27:04):
I got to figure out the why and how it's going to impact the kids first.
And I want to make that relevant then for our staff members.
Again, knowing my staff members and building those relationships, I think it helps me tobetter understand like how to approach something new or a change throughout our school.
And so, you know, the more I can learn about it and learn, hopefully already know a lotabout the staff is in trying to connect that.
(27:29):
help make that connection, help them see the value in something.
Especially if it's something that say my principal and I are really wanting to dodifferently in the school year.
How can we build that buy -in?
And we all know it comes back from the why.
I feel like I'm kind of cliche, like I'm picking up all these different leaders and stuffand the thing, right?
But Simon Sinek talks about the why of why we do things.
(27:50):
ultimately I believe in my heart that teachers want to do what is right.
they want to do what is best for kids.
You don't get into education, obviously, you don't get into education for the money, youget into education because you want to do what's right for kids.
so sometimes we might have to show them that impact and help them to understand thatbefore we can move forward.
But involving them in that process, grappling with them, that's gonna help to include themin that and help them to see that one more.
(28:14):
So yeah, we will, sometimes things will happen.
whether, you know, the state level or wherever, and we say, okay, let's get with thestaff, let's talk about this with them and let's see what they think.
Like, let's pose some questions, right?
Include them in that conversation.
And so, you know, I think that's gonna make it a whole lot more effective and they'regonna receive that better so that then obviously the students can benefit from whatever
(28:38):
that is.
But, you know, how do they see this impacting their students?
How do they see it impacting their instruction?
Because again,
they know their kids best.
They know their classroom the best.
They know what they've already got in place.
And so hopefully if we can get that feedback from them and involve them in thatconversation, whatever that change thing is, we can work through that together.
(28:59):
But also being willing to be flexible and be willing to say, that's a great point.
I hadn't thought about that.
And that's that vulnerability piece again, right?
So maybe they'll bring up something and I'm like, huh.
You know, I was looking at it from this perspective.
I hadn't thought about it from that perspective.
Let me think some more.
Let me do some more research.
Let me get back to you on that because that's a great question.
(29:21):
And maybe we need to figure a little something else out with it.
But change, I mean, it doesn't, it can't just be, hey, we're doing this because I said so,right?
I mean, we know that.
Like you can't do that.
It's not gonna have that lasting impact.
it, it's not gonna be positively received like you mentioned.
So if the staff have a negative perspective on it, the way that it's delivered to the kidsis not obviously gonna be what's best.
(29:44):
Kate, you are speaking my language through and through here.
I'm a massive Simon Sinek fan myself.
The people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it.
Such a powerful quote and to really unpack that.
On top of that, here's a thought for anybody that's listening.
So alchemists, we are talking in a realm of education, but the message of beingtransparent, building trust, understanding the why, doing what's best, this is any
(30:08):
organization, wherever you're leading, wherever you're a part of.
This is why, and you know, I did an episode with Danny Kofke, who authored the book, TheWealthy Teacher.
This is why he shared a stat that says, the highest ranked profession for people becomingmillionaires is teachers.
Because they know how to root back to these values and lead with these values and becomeentrepreneurs and business owners and lead other organizations after to set themselves up
(30:33):
for success because they are doing the right things in leadership.
Now, you said that we keep coming back to the same theme of why.
We also keep coming back to the same topic of MTSS.
So in your experience, and in your experience with it and curriculum, what strategies doyou use to ensure that changes you implement are fluid and adaptable, meeting the needs of
(30:54):
all students and educators?
And that's a goal, right, of MTSS is that we're meeting the needs of all students.
When I talked before about kind of having to create a little bit of change and revampingour, you know, before we kind of referred more to as our RTI program, that was the big
part of it is we had these umbrella interventions as we always looked at them of, youknow, a student would be below grade level in reading, okay?
(31:17):
But every student that was below grade level in reading was getting the same intervention.
Well, that...
It may not be the same for each student.
The struggle may not have been the same.
Maybe one student was struggling with their fluency.
Maybe they're decoding their accuracy.
Or maybe one student was discovering with or struggling with the comprehension piece.
So you can't group them together just because they're below grade level in reading orbelow grade level in math.
(31:41):
They can't, you can't have those umbrella interventions.
So you have to have that alignment.
So of course, figuring out what the student's struggle is first.
We do a lot of benchmark assessments at the beginning of the year.
I'm sure everyone's kind of in the midst of all of that right now.
If they haven't already and say we do a lot of screening and a lot of kind of where arekids at?
Where are you at right now?
What have you learned?
(32:02):
What are you applying, you know, into your reading or to your math or whatever it is?
And then even further, so if we recognize that yes, they need a little bit of growth intheir reading, they're, below grade level and but why?
So then we start to look at those different components of reading and we have somespecific screeners that we'll use.
And these are just things that I've found over the years.
So our benchmark assessments certainly, you know, come kind of more from the district, butthen there's so much out there about just trying to narrow down that focus.
(32:28):
You know, obviously you can't work on comprehension necessarily if you're thinking aboutjust pure reading comprehension with a student until they can actually read the words,
until they can decode those words.
You've got to get that phonics down first.
And so things build on each other, but we've got to identify the problem first for thatparticular student.
And what works for one student may not work for another student, and that's okay.
So no more umbrella interventions.
(32:50):
We really try to align the struggle to the intervention, and then of course to theprogress monitoring probe so we can see if things are working.
We've got to collect that data in some way.
The way we do our MTSS process at my school is very flexible.
my support teachers that I work with and I'm so grateful for them because they certainlyare just an amazing team and definitely help, you know, kind of brainstorm all these
(33:14):
ideas, but their schedules are very flexible.
You know, they might be in this classroom for a little bit, then this classroom, they'rebouncing around, they're pulling this one kid, they're pulling this one kid because those
kids are all throughout different classes.
So, I mean...
For a type, probably most teachers, I feel like not all, but you know, kind of type A.
And we like things that are organized, at least at my school that's how they are.
It's not always like that.
(33:35):
And it is, they've got to be flexible to know that every day their schedule might be alittle different.
And as kids demonstrate struggles or hopefully progress and growth, then their schedulesare gonna change a little bit again.
And so we really try to have that flexibility.
We don't predetermine any groups or anything like that, but we create them as we'rediscussing the students.
And so that allows us for that alignment.
(33:57):
Ultimately, it's what's best for that kid.
And then of course, what does the data say?
We rely very heavy on data.
And so again, I'm a self -proclaimed data nerd, guess.
I love a good spreadsheet with a formula and it will calculate all the data for me.
we kind of joke and have different.
sayings in our meetings and I'm always like, but what does the data say?
(34:19):
But what does the data say?
You know, and it kind of goes back to that.
It's not, I think that they're struggling with this or I think this would be good.
What does the data say that makes you think that?
We've got to get it back to that.
You know, without data, it's just your opinion.
So we've got to have the data to kind of back that up.
And we are very systematic with collecting that data.
(34:39):
I think it's also important to note that the data isn't just
like the progress monitoring, you know, as far as looking at the graphs, but it is thatobservational data that teachers see in the classroom, the behavioral data that they see,
you know, if you give a student a whole page of subtraction problems and they flip, youknow, so that they always make sure that the larger numbers on top are, you know, in the
(34:59):
ones place or whatever, and they flip that, that's a piece of data.
Because that goes back to, we've got to teach the student, you know, what all of this evenmeans and what the place value, how that all works.
That's an important data too, we have those conversations.
So, you know, I think the, like I said, the alignment, the data, having that growthmindset.
(35:20):
That is 100%, a huge, huge piece of it, and I share that with my teachers constantly, justthroughout the year, just to keep that in mind.
Because again, when you're sitting there all day long, and you're talking about kids whostruggle, because that's who we focus on, right?
During those meetings most of the time are those kids who are having a hard time.
it can be really hard, but we have to have that growth mindset of, no, maybe they're notready for that yet, but we can help them get to that.
(35:45):
And then also, you know, believe in kind of systems.
So that systematic approach to things, James Clear, if you've read the book, AtomicHabits, it's a really awesome book.
I love that, especially as being kind of the organized person that I am, but you know, hesays in there, you don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your
systems.
So I've worked really hard to create this system, this whole MTSS system, so that there'sa clear outline of the process, that teachers are aware of what's gonna happen.
(36:12):
It's intentional, it's organized, it's data -based, and it's efficient, because we allknow there's never any time.
So we've got to get through, we've gotta talk about these things, and we've got to reflecton that as educators ourselves.
And then I know this is like a huge answer, so I told you, I like, I could talk about MTSSall day, but,
The last two things I would really say on that is focus on tier one instruction first.
(36:32):
We talk a lot about that and we've changed some things as far as our expectations withtier one instruction because of things that came out through our MTSS process.
You know, if you have a whole class struggling in one particular area, that's not a kidissue.
That's an instructional issue.
That's a tier one issue.
And so we've got to fix that.
And then we've mentioned before about the expectations.
(36:54):
Students.
will rise to what you put on them.
And so we have to have those high expectations throughout our MTSS process.
Even if they are coming to us and they are in fifth grade and they are reading on a quoteunquote first grade level, they can still learn to read.
They can still grow.
They can still do that.
And it's our job as the adults to help them understand that expectation that it's, youjust haven't got it yet.
(37:20):
We got this.
Don't worry.
Like we're here to support that.
So think that was a really probably long answer, but I think hits on, again, it's thosestrategies and core values that make it work.
And I've been really fortunate to have worked in a couple of schools where I have beenable to see the positive change when you kind of follow this system.
And I'll just add to that as well, alchemists, it's so important to establish it as a data-driven or a data -informed decision -making process, not a data -only decision -making
(37:50):
process.
If you rely solely on your data, and I know I flip between data and data here all thetime.
Nobody knows, nobody knows.
So if you focus solely on what the data says,
you are never going to get the practicality and the applicability and the actualapplication.
You're just taking your theory results and you're saying, hey, this says it works, let'stry it.
(38:13):
And it might not work in your scenario.
So it needs to be a data driven or a data informed decision, not that data only.
Now, Kate, I wanna jump to the fire element, which embodies the decision making and risktaking.
So what has been one of the riskiest decisions you've made in your educational career,particularly,
related to curriculum or professional learning and what was the outcome?
(38:35):
So I, probably one of the riskiest was probably quitting after the first year without anykind of plan in mind.
That was certainly like my 23 year old, like, I've followed everything step by step andI'm not really sure.
But it was, you know, again, a risk, but definitely was something I grew from and was ableto learn from.
(38:55):
really when we talk about curriculum and professional learning, and I think I've alreadysaid it, is that full revamp.
of the MTSS process because it was different than what had been done in my district and inmy school.
And I was still pretty new to leadership.
And so I still was working with teachers.
And to be honest, I I started in leadership in my very early 30s.
(39:17):
And so a lot of teachers are probably looking at me like, who is this young AP that'scoming in and trying to tell us what to do?
and so it was a big kind of risk, I think, to take.
And thankfully I was supported by some great leaders who said, you know, okay, you know,you've got this.
I had all these ideas and it was, like I said, before the whole big movement was kind ofreally coming out.
(39:38):
And I just knew that there had to be a better way, that it wasn't working doing thoseumbrella interventions.
And so, it was a risk because I didn't know, you know, I didn't have any, any datanecessarily to support this is going to promote change.
This is going to help our students succeed, but I really believed it in my heart.
And it just, it kind of made sense to me.
But I had to figure out how to make it make sense to everybody else.
(40:00):
And it was going to be impacting the entire school.
You know, at the time I was at a K -5 school.
And so I thought, okay, if this fails, if all these ideas that I have and all this, ifthis fails, there's a lot of kids who are going to be impacted by that.
But I believed in the research.
I believed in what our staff was capable of.
and kind of just had to move forward with that and have that confidence.
(40:20):
So yeah, I think that was probably, I know it doesn't, mean, I don't know if it's a huge,huge risk in it, but anytime you're changing something in a school, right, it's gonna be a
risk because ultimately it impacts kids.
We're talking about people's babies.
And so, you know, it's taking that risk of just, we've got to try something different.
You know, it.
(40:41):
what's the definition of insanity, know, if you always do the same thing but expectdifferent results.
And so it was like, okay, we can't expect anything different unless we change something.
And so we had to go back to that beginning and change that.
Absolutely, and from all of my episodes prior whenever we talk about risk, we alwaysassociate it with our core values and you say, you know, if the risk you're taking is
(41:01):
rooted in your core values, kind of alluding to what you just said here, it doesn't feellike a big risk.
It just feels like a change.
And that's the important part to it.
Now with that though, risk taking is often, it's necessary for growth.
Absolutely.
encourage educators to take these calculated risks in their teaching practices and how doyou support them through the process?
(41:24):
We talk about a lot about being brave.
When I say we, I'm talking about my principal at my school, just at my school's kind ofmindset and stuff, but myself is encouraging them just to be brave.
And building that relationship first with them, again, kind of back to thoserelationships, allows me to support them better when I want them to hopefully take that
(41:44):
risk and to try different things.
And I've got some teachers even that...
just to kind of give you a little background, they come to my office and say, hey, I'mreally sorry, can I ask you a question?
And I say, hold up, first of all, you're not gonna apologize.
Second of all, of course you can't, like that's my job.
And so I'll make them go back and just kind of say, hey, Katie, I've got a quick questionfor you.
(42:05):
Okay, cool, that's why I'm here.
Don't apologize for asking those questions.
But I think for them, it's a risk.
Hopefully not because of me, I think it's just they don't want to bother you if you'rebusy or whatever it is.
So that's I think just a big part of working with them to believe in themselves and tounderstand their value and how much they bring.
(42:25):
to the school is gonna be really important first and that empowerment, right?
And so again, if they feel empowered, if I've cultivated that relationship with them wherethey feel empowered, then they're going to take these risks.
They're gonna try these things.
again, I mean, I feel like probably a broken record.
Give them grace.
I tell them, give yourself grace.
I pull from my past experiences and be vulnerable with them.
(42:46):
I was actually just talking to a first -year teacher yesterday.
I saw her.
And I asked, how's the first year going?
And she's, you know, it's a little rough.
And I said, it is, isn't it?
Like it is really rough.
I said, let me tell you about my story.
Let me tell you, you know, what it took for me to push past that first year.
I said, you have got to give yourself grace.
(43:07):
You are not going to be a perfect teacher your first year.
You're not going to be a perfect teacher.
You're 20, right?
You're going to grow and you're going to learn and it's going to get easier.
But you've got to give yourself grace.
That's so important.
And so I think knowing that, that they can take that risk and that if it fails, they cangive themselves grace and I'm gonna give them that grace too.
(43:29):
So, you know, what's the worst that can happen?
Okay, so that lesson that you wanna try, you wanna be innovative, you wanna do this, youwanna take this risk with this lesson, and if it fails, okay.
You know, you lost 45 minutes, you lost an instructional period, you can get that back.
You know, we have them, I know we always, there's never any time, but we have them for 180days.
(43:49):
We can fix that.
There's really not much, you know, obviously if we're following ethics and everything,there's not much that we can mess up that we can't fix.
As long as we take those risks, we give ourselves grace, you know, and we collaborate andwork together.
You know, I always tell them, tell me first, or like tell me if something happens, come tome first and I'll help you fix that.
Don't obviously try to, you know, brush it under the rug or anything, but...
(44:13):
Anyways, as far as like in their teaching practices, I always think of, you know, it'sthat servant leadership.
I'm their cheerleader.
I tell them, I'm gonna be your biggest hype person.
You wanna try that, but you're not sure, let's do it.
Like, let me help you talk it through with me, practice it with me first.
I wanna straighten their crown so that they can try those different things because that'show you learn.
That's what we've asked with kids is we want them to take risks.
(44:35):
We want them to be brave in their learning.
So the teachers and the staff, want them to do that too.
I also think, you know, having hard conversations, they don't have to be meanconversations.
So sitting down with a teacher and maybe I'm, you know, trying to motivate them to trysomething new because something new needs to happen in their classroom.
(44:55):
It doesn't have to be, I don't have to be mean about it, but I can have that hardconversation with them because I've built that relationship with them.
And I can say, you know what, I see you, I've got you, like, let's do this, I'm with you.
If you try it and it fails, again, I am still with you.
You know, of course it's hard, especially when you're, you know, they look at me, I'mtheir evaluator.
(45:16):
I'm gonna evaluate them on what they do, but I'm not, if I know this is something that isa risk for them, I'm not gonna evaluate that on that.
You let, you tell me when you're ready and then I can come and I can give you thatfeedback.
But it's just that whole...
Again, that growth mindset, those relationships, I mean, all those people, you know, kindof come together and having high expectations for them and cultivating those high
(45:40):
expectations in their own mindset is just what I would want someone to do for me, youknow?
And so I have to treat them that same way.
And I saw a quote somewhere on social media, you know, and I think you might have hit onthis at the beginning, holding people to their greatness is one of the most loving actions
that we can take.
And if I'm really serving the staff in my school,
I have to hold them to their greatness.
So I can't let them settle for just the same old, same old.
(46:02):
I've got to help push them to be brave.
Yep, bringing it back to high expectations is an act of love.
Now, I think I know where this is going, but Kate, what are you hoping people action intheir lives tomorrow from your message?
I think being impactful doesn't have to be complicated.
It can be simple.
can have a large impact by doing simple better.
(46:24):
And again, that empowerment piece.
So I hope that people hear and feel empowered so that they can go and feel empowered andthen they can empower others, right?
To have that reach, to have that connection.
I hope that...
the staff or educators out there listening, leaders out there listening, I hope that theycan take away that they can rise to those expectations, that they can hold high
(46:45):
expectations for themselves and for others.
And so then as society, I mean, we're just all gonna grow better if we all do our littlepart, right?
If we all hold expectations high for our kids and we all hold high expectations forourselves, then society is gonna get better and better.
But that's what we want, right?
So hopefully people will feel empowered.
Hopefully they'll understand the role of collaboration and teamwork so that we can justkind of create a better place.
(47:10):
That's what we're all here for, So I don't know 100%.
I have two little kids, so I'm sticking, you know, kind of where I'm at right now,hopefully.
But I would love, you know, to be more involved in professional learning and leadershipcoaching in general.
So that's one thing that I'm hoping with the business that I've got is something thatcould hopefully
(47:31):
know, take off in the future is working and talking and collaborating with other leaders,especially new leaders.
I definitely have a passion for that, just like I do with new teachers, of helping them torealize their potential.
Let me straighten your crown for you.
Let me be the person that's here if you fall.
I want to, you know, I got you.
I wanna help support you.
I wanna push you back up when you fall because you're gonna fall.
We all do.
(47:52):
We all make mistakes or we all fail at things.
So I would love to...
kind of expand that part of the business.
Right now it's the resources and sharing that, which I love.
But ultimately my goal would be doing some professional learning with schools or withleaders and doing some coaching along with that, I think would be a really great kind of
goal of mine.
how can people get a hold of you if they want to connect and explore those avenues?
(48:15):
Yeah, awesome.
it's Kate Hunter Design is kind of the name of my little business here.
So right now I'm just on Instagram.
It sounds like I might need to be moving on to Twitter slash X to collaborate a little bitmore.
But Kate Hunter Design on Instagram in my bio, I've got a link that'll take you to just asmall little website that has some additional information about those opportunities.
(48:36):
You know, it's about the leadership coaching, it's about professional development and it'sabout.
creating systems and organizational pieces that schools can use.
There's different avenues through that website.
Also just shoot me an email.
It's a little bit longer.
It's Kate Hunter, digitaldesign at gmail .com.
But I love talking about and collaborating with other leaders, other educators, and I'dlove to continue those conversations for sure.
(49:00):
Alchemsists make sure you check the description of this episode for all of those contactlinks.
And if you're still listening, thank you so much for tuning in.
I'm your host Tyler, and it has been my absolute pleasure to connect with Kate Hunter onthe Elemental Educator podcast.
Kate, thank you so much for taking time out of your day.
and honestly, the pleasure is all mine.
I love getting to share this message with the world and it's such a good message to share.
(49:22):
thanks again for joining.
appreciate that.
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