Episode 52: What’s Holding You Back? The Power of Action in Leadership (with Vernon Wright)

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
if nothing changes, nothing changes.

(00:03):
And I was like, what'd say?
Repeat that again, sir.
And he said, Vernon, if nothing changes, then nothing changes.
So if you want something to change, you're gonna have to change something that you'redoing.

(00:33):
Alchemists, welcome back to another episode of Elemental Educator.
I'm your host Tyler, and thank you so much for tuning in to a place where we challenge thestatus quo of leadership.
If you're tuning in for the first time, be sure to give us a like, subscribe, follow onApple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast from.
And if you're a returning listener, take a moment, share this episode with somebody else.
But dive deeper into that YouTube channel.

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We put out content every Saturday, a short little six, seven minute videos that are thereto help change the way that we lead.
Now, let's jump right into things.
Today, I'm joined by Vernon Wright, at the Wright Leader.
He is a speaker, mentor, board member, author, leader, and educator.
A proud graduate of Texas Wesleyan University at the undergraduate level and the AmericanCollege of Education at the graduate level.

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Vernon has leveraged knowledge from those experiences and has shared them with audiencesat regional, state, and national levels.
Vernon is honored to be a speaker consultant for SchoolPro K-12, assisting clients inrealizing synergies and building high-performing cultures.
He has also collaborated as part of the previous joint venture between Microsoft EDU andCUE Inc.

(01:41):
Vernon's passion is in adding value to others lives through the Over 30 podcast he'sappeared on and through his proud service on the Texas Wesleyan University Alumni Board.
If I'm butchering Wesleyan, I have to jump in and say, I'm Canadian.
You're hearing the accent, folks.
As vice president though, the Texas Wesleyan University School of Business StrategicAdvisory Board and the Texas Wesleyan Esports and the Texas Wesleyan Football Mentor

(02:07):
Group.
We're going to have a great conversation around Esports later.
I can feel that one coming.
He's a proud member and vice president of public relations for the ToastmastersInternational Club, power communicators.
In addition to being a proud member of the Lambda Chi Alpha fraternity, Vernon has alsoserved as a debate judge for the Dallas Urban Debate Alliance.

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Vernon has an established presence on social media at The Right Leader, which we'll linkinto the description of this show across all platforms.
And he unbashedly stands as a voice for the people.
You can connect with Vernon's body of work at therightleader.com.
He's committed to a life of mentoring others in their pursuit pursuits of excellence.
Alchemists, get ready to challenge the status quo and let the alchemy of education igniteyour passion for learning.

(02:53):
Welcome to the show, Vernon.
It's a pleasure to have you here.
Well, the honor is mine and I want to go ahead and let you and your listeners know thatreally two things, right?
We'll just go ahead and start off with these two things.
Number one, our coming together is no accident.
It is no coincidence.
It is certainly a date with destiny.
So thank you all that are here.
Secondly, using that as a great segue is simply this.

(03:16):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
You could be anywhere.
You could be doing anything.
You could be listening to any podcast.
But for you to be here listening, I am humbled and honored and really hold myselfaccountable.
We were kinda talking about this before we hit record as a speaker and podcast guest todeliver a value.
So certainly I hope that you live with a lot of different things that will challenge yourparadigms, but at the very least, at least one idea that you can turn around and use when

(03:45):
you get through listening to this episode.
I love that and he's absolutely spot on here, Alchemist.
Thank you so much for taking the time to come and join us.
We are recording over our Christmas break.
This will be coming out to you though in March.
April ish.
so by the time you're listening to this, you're hopefully nearing the end of some of youryour quarterlies.
You're hopefully nearing the end of some of your workload.

(04:07):
You're starting to see summer on the rise and up and up.
But we just appreciate your listenership.
means so much to us.
Now, I want to jump right in, Vernon, to the big question of this bio that I get to readbefore we even dive into an episode.
It's huge.
It's it's there's so many things to highlight.
And the question is, how did you get to where you are now?
Yeah, it's a great opportunity to really share, but before I even share, let me first ofall again, thank you.

(04:33):
Thank you for having me on your show.
Every opportunity that I have to appear on a podcast and I'm humbled and honored andblessed to have been on quite a few.
I do not take it lightly and I always tell audiences that whether it's five people, 500people, 5,000 or 50,000 people, we prepare just the same.

(04:54):
Really using that as a segue into how did I get started?
Funny little story, education for me was a second career option.
I had, after completing my undergraduate work, had gone out into the business world, thecorporate world, had done that for a little while, got to a fork in the road, if you will.
What an old leader of mine used to say, who is a long since retired, I came to a decisionpoint and,

(05:19):
I decided to go ahead and leave the corporate world and get into education.
My plan really was to stay in education for maybe two or three years and then go ahead andpursue something else.
I was looking at a variety of different options and different professions.
And about year two, you know, you're kind of still kind of figuring things out.
I had a group of different people approach me, fellow educators as well as leaders.

(05:42):
at the campus level and then later at the district level that reached out to me and said,hey, have you thought about anything beyond teaching, beyond the classroom?
Have you thought about any type of role like that?
And I said, well, not really.
I've just kind of had my sights set on this and I had some individuals really speak lifeinto my life and really go ahead and bring to pass, help bring to pass.

(06:06):
where I am now and so in short, I had some individuals ask me to go ahead and do someprofessional development or professional learning at the campus level, was happy to do
that.
And then had some individuals ask for me to go ahead and do that at the district level andwas happy to do that as well.
And I will tell you, one of the things that I have found out is that in life we're so busyin this space of trying to go ahead and do.

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the things that we're involved in at this really high level, what we think is a reallyhigh level that delivers value for people that we don't necessarily always take time to
think about what other people are doing.
And sometimes we don't know exactly what other people are doing.
You might hear things, right?
We might hear things, but we don't necessarily know firsthand.
And when you expand your reach in terms of being in different sizes of audiences,especially outside of your local space,

(06:58):
You come to find out that what you thought everyone was doing, everyone was not doing.
And I got an opportunity to do that.
That resonated with a lot of different people.
Got an opportunity to do some speaking engagements then at the state level and thenbeyond.
And one of the very first podcasts, a fellow Canadian, Tim Cavey, many, many moons agoinvited me on his show, Teachers on Fire.

(07:20):
So shout out to Tim Cavey.
And one of things I shared with him is this, and this is why I say to everyone that islistening or watching this, that this is not a coincidence.
This is truly a date with destiny.
And I shared on his show that what we think is our average or our normal is someone else'sbreakthrough.
So I wanna encourage everyone that's watching and listening right now to really thinkabout the things that maybe you think are just regular, everyday or normal.

(07:48):
that really for other people might be a breakthrough for them and to really help them bebetter.
Thank you so much for sharing and yeah, shout out to Tim, Teachers on Fire.
He was a guest on my show.
I've been a guest on his show and we actually have something, well, I guess by the timethat this episode is out, we will have launched the Maple Mines, which is actually a
series of seven to eight Canadian content creators sitting down as panel discussions.

(08:09):
We're sitting with Teachers on Fire.
We're sitting down with Morianne Michael with Blueprint from Belonging and Small Acts, BigImpact.
We're sitting down with Curtis Hueson from Jigsaw Learning.
We're sitting down with Mr.
Clark after dark, another podcast.
there and we're sitting down with the Prairie Principal Mr.
Kevin Langdon so we are we're excited to get that connection down so small world when weconnect and you're so spot-on and saying that what we think is our everyday life is

(08:33):
somebody else's big aha moment and there's every single day that I interact with not justkids but adults we have just
conversation and they go, my God, I've never looked at it that way before.
I've never understood it that way before.
And it blows my mind every single time that those moments happen, not just to others, butto myself as well.
And it's that big reminder that we need to collaborate because there's so many things wedon't know.

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And it's that collaborative conversation that helps unpack and get us a little bit closerto the big picture understanding.
And within that, Vernon, there are
There were so many opportunities that you got to jump to.
And, you know, we talked about how you were in this spot for two years and then you jumpedto the spot and then you went to the spot and you went to the spot and every single spot
you went to, you were happy to go there.
Now that means they had to, there's an excitement that has to be guided by a value thatyou stand for.

(09:21):
And for me, the earth, the earth element represents the core values, which, which guideus.
the foundation in our decision-making.
They're the foundation.
They're our rock to everything that pushes us through.
and you had to have found them quite quickly at this point to make these decisions.
So what values did you lean on to guide you through that journey and how did they shapethose decisions for you?

(09:42):
Great question, phenomenal question.
And let me assure your listeners, we have not rehearsed this.
This is definitely organic.
And it's such a great segue.
mean, it's, some people might say in common vernacular, it's a vibe.
This is definitely a vibe.
I can tell that already.
One of my favorite quotes ever is from Martin Luther King Jr.

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And he simply said this, said, life's most pressing and persistent question is what are wedoing in service to others?
And that was so resonating with me the first time that I heard it.
And it is something that I revisit quite often, simply, as some people would say,realizing that life was about more than who I was and that really what I've been gifted to

(10:31):
do with the gifts and talents that I have is to help other people be better.
And so when I really understood that and really came down to not just an understanding ofthat from a cognitive standpoint, right, we would think about that, well does that person
understand really what's happening?

(10:51):
But when I moved that understanding from my head to my heart, that's when that focusbecame central.
which ties into now something that I speak to a lot of audiences about and have here inthe last two to three months spoken to a few different audiences about, and that's Simon's

(11:12):
and X's book, Start With Why.
And really getting people to understand that the first place that we need to start at interms of our own self-awareness is learning about who we are.
And if we don't know who we are, it's going to be really difficult.
to serve others at the highest capacities that we're able to.
So for me, it was coming to that point into that realization that, know what Vernon, youhave talents, very specific talents, gifts and abilities that maybe some other people

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don't have.
The most selfish thing for you would be to not share those with anyone.
And we mentioned this on Tim Cavey's podcast, Teachers on Fire, way back when.
And then I also understood then in contrast that the most selfless thing for me to dowould be to go ahead and share, share the insights, share the things that I've learned

(12:07):
over the years using those talents, gifts and abilities that I have with one expresspurpose, making other people better at what they do every single day.
And when I really arrived at that with like that laser-like precision and I had thatabsolutely clear focus,
That's when I hit turbo and I said, you know what, I'm gonna go with this and let's seewhere it takes me.

(12:30):
And so fast forward down the road and here I am with user.
So in understanding that, hearing all of these incredible things that you want to take on,it sounds like there's a root of, you know, a value of experience, a value of
relationships, a value of passion and empathy for others.

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Of these four words that I'm throwing out, was there a specific word that you would comeback to and say, I've leaned on this, or is it kind of the general philosophy of wanting
to just pass on experience?
Well, one of the words there, all of them are poignant.
All of them are salient.
Let's go ahead and just say that upfront.
I definitely want to be clear on that.
I think that out of all of those that you shared, the one that is extremely or profoundlysalient is empathy.

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And I was speaking to a group about a month ago at the school of business.
So these are future leaders who are going to be out in the corporate workforce.
And really the topic that I talked to them about that day in their class was humanizingleadership.
And so within the leadership that we have, some people are at different levels ofleadership.

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Some people are leaders of themselves, which we all are.
Some people are leaders of others.
Some people are a leader of leaders.
But whatever level we're at,
in terms of our leadership, are we really leading from just that position or are we trulyvaluing who people are?

(14:03):
And I will share just a very, very quick story.
had recently finished at the time my graduate degree in educational leadership from theAmerican College of Education, H.edu.
Little shout out to them there, great folks there.
And I was sitting in a meeting with about 100 different leaders.
different levels, some people were at the assistant, associate, superintendent level, somepeople were like me, they're very, very junior, they were very early in their leadership

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careers.
And the speaker that was talking that day, he asked us a question, he said, you know what,I have a question for everyone in here.
Everyone in here is at different levels of leadership.
And this is the question he asked, he asked, how many of us in here have been guilty ofjust
talking at people when we really should have been talking with people.

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And that just resonated.
when he said that, really that question slash statement, you could hear this collectivegasp in the room because really how some people think leadership is, is really talking at
people.
They think of leadership as being very directive.
which maybe in some cases it needs to be.

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But there's this whole other part, and this may be really challenging and shifting andchallenging some paradigms for some people that are listening to this.
The other part I dare say is that there's this other part of leadership where we're reallynot embracing empathy and understanding that this other person that I'm with and that I'm

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leading and that I'm helping to lead and that's helping to lead me in the process.
Let me go ahead and say that.
If you are truly leading others as a servant leader, those individuals are truly leadingyou as well, because this is a two-way street.
learning, you should be learning from each other that when we embrace who they are asindividuals and as humans, that is really the, the epitome, the embodiment, the embodiment

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of humanizing leadership.
And that's why out of all of those just wonderful words you mentioned,
Really empathy is the one that stands out because I've really seen in a lot of cases wehave leaders that they, from a skill will perspective, they have this will to want to be
empathetic, but I don't necessarily know that they have the skill to be empathetic and toreally say I don't have that skill, maybe I have a deficit in that area, can you help me

(16:37):
go ahead and increase my capacity in that?
And it's so important to recognize that some of the best leaders
are so good at recognizing that everybody that they are around is different and respondsdifferently.
And some of the best ways that people have learned leadership is to actually study traumaand traumatic events because it tells you so much about individuals and it helps you

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become an empathetic person.
You know, I jumped into some traumatic event training and one of the biggest takeawaysthat I'm pulled from it is the exact same trauma can happen to the exact same people.
Sorry, the exact same trauma can happen to
to people and they will have different responses because they've lived their livesdifferently up to the point of that trauma.
And you often hear, you know, this happened to you.

(17:26):
I know how you feel because that happened to me here and this is what I did.
That's sympathy.
You're sympathizing with the person.
Empathy is approaching them and saying,
That sucks and is really hard and I can't even begin to understand what's going on.
But whatever you need, I'm here to sit and listen.

(17:46):
I'm here to sit and talk through it.
I'm here to sit and support.
But I need you as the individual going through this right now to know that I don't haveanswers because you'll have the answers and I'll help you find them.
And that shift when you can take that concept and apply it to a leadership model and as aleader approach something and say, you know, I'm not going to have all of the answers.

(18:07):
And sometimes you guys are going to have them.
But what I am going to do and this is is stemming back actually, when I got into
I watched Think Media and Sean Cannell gave a little talk and he said it's not about theresources you have, it's about the resourcefulness that you bring and it's using your
resourcefulness and the best leaders are actually using their resourcefulness over theirown resources.
They're able to find those connections and link their way and

(18:31):
Even, you you talked about Simon Sinek.
I'm a big Simon Sinek fan.
When he gave his famous TED talk about people don't buy what you do, they buy why you doit, he said that it was in front of 50 people.
He said it was a TED event in front of 50 people that he didn't expect to blow up.
And it blew up because people didn't care so much about who he was.
They cared about what he was saying and why he was saying it, right?

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He was living and breathing his message to the world.
So when you're able to connect yourself into that route of, you know, I'm trying todeliver experiences, well, every action you make when you deliver on those experiences and
it's about the opportunity, it's about the connection, that's actually leading withempathy as well.
That's leading with passion.
That's leading with heart.
And people will see the actions and they'll hear what you've said and they'll see thatalignment.

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And
they'll look in at that and say, this is somebody I want to surround myself with.
This is somebody I want to work with.
This is a resourceful leader.
This is a resourceful person.
Now it's not all sunshine and rainbows though, right Vernon?
There are many times where leaders have all of these good intentions to bring these thingsand things don't go their way.
And there's pushback, there's resistance, there's people not buying into systems.

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You might not buy into your own system at some point.
And these are challenges which bring about the air element, which is all about adversity.
And
along your journey, along this traveling, along this speaking, I'm sure there was a lotthat's coming your way from it.
How did you navigate, you know, the winds of adversity, maybe leaning on this value alittle bit as well?
Absolutely, and so I want to touch on one thing on that empathy piece that is soabsolutely powerful what you just shared.

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So for those that are taking notes, of course you all know better than to come to oneepisode here of this show, really any episode and not be prepared to take notes.
Going to go ahead and share with you a question that I've used a lot.
You obviously can go ahead and use this question professionally, but you can use itpersonally as well.
I've used it in both arenas over the years.

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and it really ties directly into that trauma informed response.
And really it is a demonstration of empathy.
And the question is very simple.
The question is you look at the person when you may not necessarily have the answers ormay not necessarily know what to say.
You just look at the person and simply ask this question, what do you need from me rightnow?

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And you pause and listen.
So that's a great question for you.
A lot of times, sometimes when we ask that of people who maybe have not been asked thatquestion before, especially when they're in the middle of really navigating some deep
emotions around trauma, whether that's trauma experiencing that for the first time ormaybe it's something that has caused them to have a relapse into that prior trauma to

(21:12):
relive that again, they will be a little surprised.
It will be a little bit of a pattern interrupt because they'll kind of be like, wow, okay,I've never really had someone
really ask me that.
That also too is a very nice segue into what you have asked, which is about when you're inthe middle of the situation and you have headwinds and maybe you think maybe this is not

(21:33):
really the direction I'm supposed to be going and I thought I was supposed to have a lotof people around me but maybe it feels like I'm just here by myself.
What do you do?
What do you go back to?
what is your anchor, what is your North Star, what is your lighthouse, what is that place,that thing that you can go back to and say, this allowed me to re-center myself.

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And simply, if any of you are fans of the late, great Dr.
Stephen Covey, he said, of many great things he said, but one of the things he talkedabout was the main thing.
And he simply said this, the main thing is to keep the main thing, the main thing.
And so one of the aspects that I have really enjoyed really helping myself and it hashelped me in terms of my own self-awareness and self-development is in the of situations

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like that, professionally and personally, is to stop and ask myself, you know, becauseself-talk is very real, folks.
Right?
If you ever meet anyone who says, I don't believe in self-talk.
I never talked to myself.
I'm, I really don't believe that.
Just say, thank you very much.
Turn around and politely run away as quickly as possible because self-talk is veryimportant.

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And so one of the questions that I really have asked myself in those situations is Vernon,what is the main thing here?
What is the main thing?
I will also say that not only in terms of that inner self-talk,
from my own perspective, but this may apply to some of your listeners that are out thereand those that are viewing and watching this podcast as well.

(23:12):
If you've ever been in a team meeting, some type of organizational meeting and you had avery nicely printed agenda and you were gonna go through 12 points and all these other
things and through about point number two, the wills completely fall off.
The meeting goes in a totally different direction and everyone's kind of looking atthemselves through their loudest nonverbal language.

(23:33):
They're looking at each other as if to say, what in the world is going on here?
What are we talking about?
This is by far not even on the agenda.
What has happened to this meeting?
This meeting has totally devolved into something else that we didn't even intend for it.
to be and in the midst of those meetings on different occasions I've simply raised my handand someone's asked sure Vernon Mr.

(24:00):
Wright what is it what question do you have and I've simply asked this what is the mainthing here?
and just be quiet and listen.
Yeah.
It's about that alignment.
And you might ask people, what do you need right now?
And be prepared for the response, I don't know.
Be prepared for the response, nothing.
Be prepared for the response of awkward pauses because people have never been asked thatand people don't know how to respond to it.

(24:27):
And so you can go a little bit more specific and you can say, what is one thing I can dofor you right now that could help you?
And you can ask for just one thing.
You can say, hey, in the past, I noticed you've done this and this.
Would me taking one of those help you?
And see where that goes and give them a choice.
Give them a this or that.
Give them the ability to pick it and narrow it down to go to one thing.

(24:49):
That broad general question sometimes gets met with a lot of overwhelm and I don't knowand people in moments where they're needing that help can't process that full ability to
think there.
But it's very powerful to come back to the alignment of what is it that we're trying todo?
Right?
And you lean on, you lean on Stephen Covey and believing that everybody has the ability tobe a leader and everybody has the ability to step up and do great things.

(25:11):
Lean on that team, right?
Lean into your collaboration, lean into those relationships, lean into being vulnerable asa leader and look at your team and say, you all have great ideas.
And some of the best ideas that are going to change what we do are going to come from you.
And leave it at that.
Start with that.
Right?
One of the leaders that I knew started one of their first years off by saying, there aregoing to be times that I ask you to do things that you're not going to want to do.

(25:38):
And you're going to look at it and say, it's actually against what I stand for.
And you're not going to do it.
And you're going to come to me and you're going to say, I'm not doing it.
And here's why.
And it's so important that you tell me why rather than just not doing it.
I will buy into all of your whys.
I will not buy into you doing something and not knowing why you did it.

(25:58):
Coming back to Simon Sinek there, you should always know why you're doing something.
So on top of that, Vernon, you know, you've been a voice for people.
You've gone and you've spoken, you've consulted, you've given those keynotes about how totake this on.
Can you share a specific moment in your life, maybe an example that you faced where youhad to stand against odds and what did you learn from that experience?

(26:19):
Yeah, this is a great question.
And I'm sure this before and some of us may have had those lives where professional andpersonal really kind of converge.
And I happened to have had one of those a few years ago.
And so in the midst of really kind of dealing with some things that were happening with mepersonally, my father passed away.

(26:41):
and that was very, very, very traumatic.
In the midst of that, professionally, I was kind of dealing with some things.
And so, as I was sharing with someone really just two days ago, someone that came to meand said, Verne, I'm kind of in a tough place and don't know what to do.
I'm feeling down.
I have a little bit of despair.

(27:03):
Can you help me?
Can you talk to me?
Can you give me some direction?
And what I shared with that person and I share with your listeners and your viewers heretoday, a few things really.
The first thing though is hope.
Because if a person loses hope and there is no hope, that person then believes thatnothing will ever change.

(27:23):
And if that person believes that nothing will ever change, that person will be very muchso disenthused.
to really try to take any action whatsoever.
And we all know that taking action is very important.
So for me, in the midst of that situation that I was going through, the hope for me inthat situation was simply this.

(27:46):
Some of you all may be going through a few things right now.
It is, I have the opportunity to reinvent myself.
Let me repeat that again for those of you listening and watching.
I have the opportunity to reinvent myself.
So through all of what, you know, this trauma is and all of these different things thatare in flux in the midst of all of that, I have this really wonderful opportunity to say,

(28:14):
I'm going to go ahead and reinvent myself and make myself into a different person toreally have a greater impact again.
That core value we talked about at the beginning of the episode, the beginning of theshow.
their core value of really serving other people and helping them to be better in what theydo.
And so in the midst of that, I really looked at all of the different aspects of my life.

(28:39):
I looked at, you know, what was my appearance like and what were some of the things that Ihad as goals and what were some other things that were, pardon me, what were some other
things that I was involved in in terms of helping other people and.
Were those the things that I wanted to continue in or did I want to go in differentdirections with some other things?

(29:00):
So in essence, I did an inventory, but I didn't do the inventory of my life until I fullycame to the point of understanding, not just in my head, but in my heart that Vernon, you
have an opportunity right now in the midst of all of this to reinvent yourself.

(29:24):
Once I did that, the ideas started to flow like water.
Let me also go ahead and give a little tip.
Some of your listeners and viewers may do this already.
If not, I highly, highly, highly recommend it.
And that is journaling.
Whether you journal in the morning or when you first get up or whether you journal atnight or maybe even some people might journal in the middle of the day, maybe on a lunch

(29:50):
break or something like that.
Journaling is very powerful and I don't pretend to know all of the reasons whyesoterically, but what I do know is this is when you start to journal, whether that's
writing on a piece of paper or whether that's typing on a computer, all of these ideasflow about things that not only you could do or as a mentor often ask me, Vernon, what's

(30:14):
the next right move to make?
But also all of these things that were successful for you before in the past.
that you can go back to because in essence, and I wanna share this two things very, veryquickly.
The great Dr.
Adolf Brown or as most people know him, Doc Brown keynote speaker, world renowned, shoutout to him, had an opportunity to see him keynote a couple of times a few years ago.

(30:40):
He often says this, every single person you meet is in one of three stages.
They're either coming out of a storm,
they're in the middle of a storm, are they getting ready to go into a storm?
So when you understand that and you know that about every single person whom you come intocontact with, and again, there's that empathy and connection and human interaction piece,

(31:07):
you understand that when they're in the midst of that, what helps them out the most is toreally understand, not only do I have hope, but
people are better because I'm helping them be better.
So what is the commitment?
What is my duty?

(31:28):
What opportunity do I have beyond myself to help other people be better?
And I will go ahead and say this, especially in that space of trauma-informed practicesand really working with people that have experienced trauma, great trauma, sometimes some
of the most
powerful moments and powerful experiences are when those people who have survived traumaactually sit down with those who have experienced similar trauma and they help them to

(31:58):
process and unpack that trauma in a way that helps them.
I also want to go ahead and go back to two things.
Number one, what you said was just absolutely wonderful about that question of is thereone thing that I can take away from you that will help?
in this situation.
I will also add this too.
I've never really thought about that one.

(32:19):
That one's great.
I'll have to add that one to my toolbox.
Another one that I have used though is when a person's responded back and said, don't knowright now, is really just to leave that emotional space open for them.
Not just the intellectual thought space, but the emotional space to say, when you do thinkof it, let me know.

(32:40):
This emotional space is open for us to come back and join back together and discuss it.
And when they say the I don't know as well, it's perfectly okay to pause.
And you know, they always teach people in school, wait three seconds before you move onbecause people aren't gonna answer.
When you're asking such a big question, it's more like 10 seconds.
And you're gonna sit in awkward silence and they're gonna say, I don't know.
And then you're gonna sit there and you're gonna wait them out until they say somethingelse.

(33:04):
Mm-hmm.
and see how long it takes because sometimes that next thing they say is actually what theyneed help with.
And sometimes that next thing they say is what the heck are we doing?
Right.
And it's up to you to kind of unpack and judge that situation and play it out and see howit goes.
You know, funny enough, talking about adversity here, I do leadership challenges every,every Saturday as well.
put out a little 30 second short and we talk about what you do this or that in thatsituation.

(33:27):
And the one that went out today was about you.
Somebody on your team has made a crucial mistake and are you deciding to sit back andwatch how it
unfolds or are you deciding to blow things up and hit that reset button?
And the answer is really it depends, right?
You know, I talk a lot about, you know, blow it up, reshape it, do it the way that isgoing to align, but sometimes you just need a small tweak.

(33:50):
So it really depends.
The long answer to the short is it depends on the situation.
But I love starting every year with my team and approaching them and saying, we have anopportunity.
to start fresh.
And I'm a school principal right now, so I'll stick to this theme of school principal, butthis can apply to almost anything.
Any, you know, after your AGM, after whatever it is your fiscal year, your start, what youcall your startup phase, right?

(34:13):
Sit down with your team and say, we have an opportunity to open a brand new school.
You know, it's gonna have the same name, it's gonna have the same logo, right?
But we have an opportunity to change what our mission is.
We have an opportunity to change our vision, change our values.
We have an opportunity to change who teaches what, where they teach, what it looks like,what it does.
What would you do?
What would you want to do?

(34:34):
What does that look like for us?
And some things will stay the same.
Your grade one, two, three, or your grade four teacher is probably going to say, you know,I'm not really wanting to jump eight grade levels and go somewhere else.
I'm happy where I am, right?
And just like that, your really good car salesman is going to say, I'm really good atselling cars.
I think I want to stay there instead of becoming the mechanic right now.

(34:55):
But there's small tweaks that will surprise you every single time you ask that question.
What would you change if we could start fresh?
And then what's stopping you?
What is stopping you from starting fresh on some of those things?
And often, you know, it's everything we're talking about right here.
It's once we align it to our Y, once we align it to our earth and our core values, that'snot such a scary thing to do is to start fresh because it has the alignment.

(35:18):
With that, we've talked a lot, Vernon, about, you know, the adversity that we're facingwhen we try to do new things.
But now we're going to add on because we've started to talk about how to handle the changedynamic to it.
So how do you approach leading change within these organizations you work with, especiallywhen you have resistant people within it?
Yeah, so great question.
And just sharing a little bit from my experience is one of the things that I like to do,I'm a person that really likes the rationale.

(35:44):
And then we may have some of your listeners and viewers that say, you know what?
Y'all just tell me what it is that we're supposed to do and I'll do it.
I do know though, as well, and we're grateful for people that are very focused on thataction piece because we absolutely have to have that.
We do know that there are some other people in organizations that would say, I need therationale.

(36:09):
I need for you to really explain this to me, to tell me why are we changing this?
And so for me as a person who has facilitated some of those conversations on a collectivebasis, it's really to understand whatever that shift is in policy procedure for me to

(36:30):
understand why is that being done?
Why?
And for me to understand that on this really granular level, so I can really unpack thatbecause, throwing a quick shout out here to John C.
Maxwell, and he's written so many different books and really have enjoyed his work overthe years, one of his great books is The Five Wolves of Leadership.

(36:54):
So he talks about those different levels and so.
That book was part of my master's thesis in graduate school.
That first level is that positional level, positional authority.
do this because I said so, because my title is XYZ, I have a reserve parking spot, soforth, so on, so forth, so on.
But then that highest level, that level five leader, is really that person that before youeven know whether they have a reserve parking spot or whether they have a business card or

(37:23):
not or title or not.
They're just that genuine person who you connect with so much that you really want tofollow what they're doing because much like we talked about with Simon Sinek, you know
that they're very altruistic in their heart.
Whatever it is they're trying to do is truly about helping others.

(37:45):
There are no hidden agendas.
There's nothing else like that.
So understanding that piece about what people could be asked to change and could be askedto do.
so that I understand that.
And then going back and sharing that with people in a way that's very authentic.
I remember one of the very first job interviews I had post-graduate school, they asked meat the very end of the interview, they said, well, what are three adjectives you would use

(38:10):
to describe yourself?
And I mean, right there in the moment, without really thinking, I'd said, well, realcompetent and caring.
And that was, you know, obviously a very authentic and organic response for me.
And they asked me, they said, why would you say that?
I said, because number one, people need to know that I'm real with them.
And real, obviously, in a professional way, but they need to know that as much as I'm ableto within that position and that context of the situation, I'm gonna be honest with them.

(38:36):
And secondly, competent.
I don't need to know everything, but I need to know some things.
And then lastly, caring, which now we would say years later is really that empathy piece.
because people need to know at the end of the day that regardless of where we are on someorg chart, that I see them as a human being and I want them to see me as a human being,

(38:57):
not just this position or this title.
So really communicating from that perspective about change, in my experiences, that hasreally helped people and people have come back to me and they've said, you know what
Vernon, that helped me so much.
because I know number one, you're gonna tell me the truth.

(39:19):
You're not gonna give me some PR cover story.
And then, know, secondly, you care about me as a person.
And I'll never forget this situation, talking about that empathy and the humanizingleadership piece.
At the time, was supervising, I was supervising about maybe, let's say about 20 to 30teachers and then also some staff members as well.

(39:42):
It was at a larger school.
And so I was walking down the hallway one day and this teacher came to me and said, Mr.
Mr.
Wright, have an emergency.
I an emergency and I just got a call from my child's school.
I need to leave right now.
And I said, okay, okay.
Well, first of all, you know, it'll all work out.
We can do it.
It's not a problem.
If you need to go, go.
And so the educator looked at me, the teacher did, and she said, but you don't understand,Mr.

(40:03):
Wright.
said, what is there that I don't understand?
And she said, I don't have sub plans.
I don't know who's going to cover my classes.
It's too late in the day to put in for a sub.
What's going to happen?
And right there in that moment, could take it to the school, could take it to the spot inthe school where it happened.

(40:24):
I said to that teacher, I said, what's most important is your family and your situation.
The rest of it, we'll figure out.
Go.
But Mr.
Wright, I feel bad.
Go.
That's what's most important.
And so I found again in my own experiences approaching change from that perspective hasreally, really helped.

(40:48):
I would say in some ways that has really been the difference between some people saying, Ijust don't want to do this.
I don't want to do it.
It's different.
I'm used to doing it this other way.
and people saying, know what, Verin, I really respect you as a person and as a leader, andI'm willing to go ahead and help do the change.
People don't fear change.

(41:10):
They fear the unknown that change brings.
And the more we can bring clarity to that by being real, by being honest, by beingourselves and being transparent, the better chance you have at that change being
successfully implemented.
Some of the best changes out there have completely failed because the unknown drove toomuch fear

(41:37):
and resistance in pushback, and the change was introduced before the why behind the changewas even explained.
They didn't even get to go down that road.
But when it started with, we need to do something about this because here's what I thinkwe should do.
What do you think?
Now you start to open the door to people understanding why something needs to be done.

(41:58):
And the conversation isn't about, hate your idea.
it becomes about what you're trying to solve.
So we talked earlier about that meeting you're in, right?
You're into point number two and everything's gone off the rails and you bring it back towhat is our main priority here?
What are we trying to do?
If you start with what you're trying to do, now all of a sudden everything that you talkabout after is aligned to what you're trying to do.

(42:25):
So bringing that change, aligning it with that earth element, bringing it back to yourvalue.
Why are we doing this?
Because it aligns with what we stand for as a group.
Now.
you this, you know, that I've challenged a lot of different people to do because I'vespoken, of course, in different environments, some in education and some outside of
education.
But I've asked people, right?

(42:47):
Because I mean, we're in these situations, we're in these different audiences, we're inthese different thought spaces.
I've asked them, anybody raise your hand if you can recite to me the organization's visionor mission without looking at it.
Anybody recite that to me?
Even tell me a paraphrased version.
And people have struggled.

(43:08):
They've kind of, some people had the reaction that you had, right?
Which is, is this a joke?
Is this serious?
And I often use that as an illustration because we have all of these words that say, youknow, here's our vision.
Here's what we look at long-term.
Here's the mission.
Here's where we think, you know, we want our goal to be.

(43:29):
You know, like on this day-to-day basis, here's how kind of how we operate.
Here's what's supposed to be driving our actions, making sure that our actions arealigned.
But we don't really revisit those.
It's like we come together, we craft those, we revise them, we polish them, we maybe printthem up and we put them on a wall.

(43:52):
Maybe we put them on a website or something else, and then we just leave them.
and we never really come back to them.
And so one of the things that I encourage organizations to do is at least once a year, itprobably would be better if it was every six months at like a semi-annual retreat to just
say, hey, somebody read out the vision and mission statements aloud and let's just kind ofhave this talk in small groups about what does this really mean to each of us in the

(44:22):
different roles that we have within the organization?
Again, to bring people back to center in that alignment piece that you talked about.
Absolutely.
And I chuckle because we have that conversation daily almost where I am on what is ourmission?
What is our vision?
What are we still happy with what it is?
And what are we doing every single day?
What decisions do we make every single day that don't just abide by it, but show thatwe're living them, right?

(44:48):
And living them.
driving every, like, it's interesting because when I go back and I look at some of thosethings that Simon Sinek said back then, when he first came out with Start With Why, you
look at that and you say, okay, this is how not only individuals should be, but this ishow we all should be collectively in the organizations that we're in.

(45:13):
This should be the primary driver of all of the work that we do.
on a daily basis.
And if we're not able to go ahead and connect some work back to this, then one of thequestions that there should be for us individually and collectively is, why are we doing
this work?
Absolutely.

(45:33):
Absolutely.
And I talk about it a bit in my upcoming book.
You know, it could be a hot topic debate, but Starbucks is a great example of this becausethey had an incident years ago about needing to provide sensitivity training to all of
their employees.
And so what they decided to do was shut down their stores and they shut down their storesand they sensitivity trained thousands of employees.

(45:55):
Why?
Because their mission was about giving the
best personalized service to the individual.
And they held true to that and they did it and they took action on it.
And nobody can sit back and say they didn't do anything about it.
They shut their stores down.
Mm-hmm.
That's a lot of That's a lot of money.
wanted to align themselves to their company's mission.

(46:18):
And it's so powerful.
Now, if you want to hear more about that, though, I will say I have an upcoming book in2025, The Elemental Leader.
Short little plug there to go give it a read when it's live.
I'll let everybody know.
Vernon, you know what?
I want to ask, what's next for you?
You're doing so much.
What's next?
For me, one of the things that I often talk about and I often think about are three words,connect, impact, and scale.

(46:42):
so connection, making those authentic connections, making an impact.
Simply me asking myself, have I added value to other people's lives?
And then third, which really is a segue into what you just asked, is what's the scale?
How do I reach as many people as possible?
So for me,

(47:02):
continuing to expand the podcast that I appear on, such as yourself and your greataudience.
So grateful and thankful to be on your show.
Also too, increase speaking appearances and not just speaking appearances really from anational perspective, but really sharing that message internationally.

(47:24):
And of course, any medium
any method, modality, through which people can be made better, that really is my focus forwhat is to come.
And I always keep that as my North Star.
I always keep that as my Polaris.

(47:46):
I always keep that as the cornerstone of the work that I do.
And so one day, we might just be in front of a crowd of 100,000 people or more.
Wouldn't that be life, right?
That's the mission of elemental educators to impact and challenge the status quo ofleadership on a global scale.

(48:06):
And it truly means global.
So I love that you talked about scaling as one of yours and what level can we take this toand bring it to next.
Now we talked about this before I pressed record and you said I want people to walk awaywith one thing.
one actionable item and throughout this list of all these incredible topics we've got toexplore, Vernon, I know that our alchemists have been listening and thinking very, very

(48:30):
intentionally about the message and what they can incorporate into their own lives withit.
But I like to put the guest on the spot too and say you have an opportunity now to call toaction one message you want our audience to pull away from it.
What is your call to action for anybody that's tuned in?
Well, I will tell you that anytime that I'm able to speak somewhere, whether it's inperson or virtually, I always like to extend gratitude.

(48:55):
so gratitude again to you for having me on your show.
And of course, to all of the different listeners and viewers that are out there, thosethat are regular followers of the show, and those who maybe would say, you know what,
somebody gave me a link to this and thought that I might enjoy this and that might be ofvalue to me.
And that's how I came into connection with it.
Thank you to all of you.

(49:16):
What a wonderful segue.
For me, my focus is two words.
Two words, right?
Very, very easy.
Everyone here can count to one, two.
And those two words are simply this.
For me, for the next 12 months, massive action.
Massive action.
Of course, I've posted that online.
For those that are on X, of course I'm on X.

(49:37):
I'm on Blue Sky, I'm on Instagram, I'm on all the different.
platforms, but I've posted that on X about massive action.
And it's one of the things that I've been privileged to do each year through this exercisethat we call one word or one phrase, what is going to be that focal point that drives us
for the next 12 months.
And so for me, it's massive action.

(49:58):
Two things I want to go ahead and share with your audience.
Number one is something that a mentor shared with me many, moons ago.
And it was simply this, were talking one day and
Of course, he's an older gentleman and he said to me, said, Vernon, if nothing changes,nothing changes.
And I was like, what'd say?
Repeat that again, sir.

(50:19):
And he said, Vernon, if nothing changes, then nothing changes.
So if you want something to change, you're gonna have to change something that you'redoing.
So that's step number one.
If nothing changes, then nothing changes.
And then the second one very much so fits in with that theme of massive action and it'sthis.
I have a t-shirt here at home that I like to wear sometimes.

(50:40):
It says nothing works unless you do.
So, a lot of people have a lot of plans.
I've been around a lot of people with a lot of plans.
We're all for plans.
But at the end of the day, there's this word called action.
And for me in my life, I will share that professionally and personally, before everysingle breakthrough that I've had in my life, I had to take action.

(51:02):
before every single breakthrough, not only did I have to take action, but I took action.
I didn't know all of the steps from A to Z, but in faith, because I knew that what I wasdoing, whether it was content I was producing, whether it was a speech that I was giving,
I knew that it was going to make people better.
That much I knew with absolute certainty, 100 % certainty, and I took a step of faith.

(51:28):
And...
That has proceeded every single breakthrough that I've had in my life.
So really my call to action.
And again, thank you to everyone who has listened to this episode is simply this twothings again, nothing, if nothing changes, nothing changes.
And number two, number two, number two for those that are listening.

(51:54):
That's everyone.
Nothing works unless you do.
So my challenge to you is this, have faith, know what your Polaris is, know what yourNorth Star is, know what your values are, gain absolute clarity on that.
Know that in life we're here on this earth to serve others, a purpose beyond ourselves.

(52:18):
Get in community with great people.
like this awesome podcast host.
So thank you.
So thankful to be on your show again and understand that there's great work for us to do.
And I want to share something out there.
A popular musician said many, many years ago, this one thing, and I'll leave on this note.

(52:41):
He said, your greatest fan is someone you don't know.
Your greatest hater is someone you do.
Alchemists, this is the Elemental Educator.
I'm your host, Tyler, and thank you so much for tuning into our episode today with VernonWright at The Wright Leader.
It has been our pleasure to hopefully provide you with actionable strategies you can bringback into your personal and professional lives to take charge of the way you lead and make

(53:11):
decisions and guide your path.
And Vernon, it has been such a pleasure to sit down and connect with you.
Thank you so much for taking time
out of your holidays, your weekend to have such a powerful conversation.
The great honor is mine.

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Episode 52: What’s Holding You Back? The Power of Action in Leadership (with Vernon Wright)

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