March 24, 2025 • 53 mins
In this episode of The Elemental Educator Podcast, host Tyler Comeau speaks with Katherine Hamilton, VP of Programs at Ensemble Learning, about how leaders and educators can create inclusive, equitable environments for multilingual learners. With years of experience in curriculum design, federal grant implementation, and coaching educators, Katherine shares powerful insights into supporting language development, building classroom culture, and making bold decisions that drive meaningful impact.
Discover how schools can shift from surviving to thriving by embracing student voice, multilingualism, and equity-focused leadership.
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Timecodes:0:00 - Introduction
6:53 - Grounded Moments
18:00 - Headwinds and Tailwinds
28:40 - Ripples of Change
37:50 - Spark or Burn
47:20 - How to get Buy In
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Multilingual learners or students who are still developing academic English are thefastest growing student population in the US and all of our classrooms are going to be
(00:09):
filled and enriched with multilingual learners and looking ahead.
And when teachers and leaders can set up school environments where we're focusing andembracing supporting bilingualism, multilingualism, and these learners, it's an
environment where all students thrive.
And so it's building kind of this promise of the United States of this idea of amulticultural, multilingual society.
(00:35):
And our schools are just the center and the place to start that.
Alchemists, welcome to episode 55 of the Elemental Educator podcast.
(01:00):
I'm your host Tyler, and thank you so much for joining our community for anotherincredible connection.
If you're here for the first time, welcome to a place where we redefine leadership andchallenge the status quo.
Take a minute before the episode starts to subscribe to our YouTube at ElementalUnderscore Educator, where we upload all of our video episodes and additional leadership
(01:21):
content.
meant for anyone looking to grow.
For those returning alchemists, take some time to expand our community and share thisplatform with one other person today.
I'm so thankful for your passion and dedication to being better together.
Now get ready to let the alchemy of education ignite your passion for learning.
Today, I'm thrilled to connect with Katherine Hamilton.
(01:42):
She is the vice president of programs at Ensemble Learning, where she oversees thedevelopment, implementation, and evaluation of all pro- pro- pragmatic activities.
With nearly 15 years of experience in the K to 12 education space, specializes ineffective teaching and learning, instructional leadership, overarching strategies to
(02:03):
ensure equity for all student groups.
Katherine holds a master's degree in education with an emphasis in math education fromStamford University and a bachelor's degree in economics from Yale University.
Katherine's career has centered and has been centered on supporting leaders and teachers.
create inclusive and equitable environments for learning for all students.
(02:27):
Prior to working at Ensemble Learning, Katherine was a secondary mathematics teacher, aninstructional coach, and a director of curriculum and instruction at a public school
network in Los Angeles.
At Ensemble, she has led the implementation of two successful Department of Educationgrants focusing on leadership for multilingual learners, equity,
(02:51):
and implementation of high quality dual language programming.
Outside of work, Katherine spends most of her time with her two young sons and husband,exploring parks and museums in Los Angeles and building community with other families.
Katherine serves as the chair of a nonprofit charter management organization and donatestime to mentor young families as they navigate disability diagnoses and support services.
(03:15):
Welcome to the Elemental Educator podcast, Katherine.
It is my pleasure to have you here today.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to connect and talk to you and your listeners.
And there's such a powerful story to share even just from reading the intro.
I can't wait to dive into it, which brings me to the first big question here, which is howdid you get to where you are now?
Yeah, growing up, I always thought about being a teacher.
(03:40):
when I was in high school, I loved learning math and I felt really empowered by learningmath.
It was something that didn't necessarily come easily, but it made sense to me.
I felt very empowered by it.
And in college, when I went to continue learning,
math and higher in higher education.
I really struggled.
(04:00):
It was a different type of learning environment, really complex, obviously.
And for the first time, it was me surrounded generally by a bunch of men.
And it was this feeling that kind of I had a barrier in learning something that I lovedthat I reflected and
really realized students feel this in all levels of math a lot earlier than I did.
(04:24):
the data really shows that math is this continued kind of gatekeeper for higher educationaccess, especially for students of color.
And so I decided to go into that field and become a high school math teacher.
And I absolutely love the work.
I worked in Northeast Los Angeles about...
99 % of my students were Latinx and English learners.
(04:45):
And through the classroom, really realized that our systems aren't set up for all studentsto succeed.
And kind of moved through different roles, really enjoyed working alongside other teachersand supporting them and coaching.
And I was actually on the other side working with ensemble learning with my school system.
And I love the people at the nonprofit.
(05:07):
And the timing was wonderful where Ensemble had earned its first federal grant and neededsomeone to come on board to run that.
And I knew it was the right time to make that shift and really focus my work on supportingmultilingual learners.
And at Ensemble Learning, I always say we have the privilege, we have the luxury of havinga mission where we focus on
(05:31):
multilingual learners or English learners.
We know people teaching and running schools have a million things on their mind.
And so I've now been with Ensemble for six years and just continue to love that focus onhow do we just create equitable learning environments, both in culture and in instruction
for our multilingual learners.
That's a journey of such perseverance, resilience and a path not often taken.
(05:55):
I interviewed on an earlier episode, Dr.
Selena Fisk and you two would have a great conversation.
She's out of Australia, heavy into statistics.
There's a very powerful conversation to be had here about data informed decision making,just math people getting together.
And the second thing that's so fascinating about that to me is you talked about ityourself struggling in math and then getting a master's.
(06:17):
related to math.
it's, you know, it's kind of similar to me is that when I was going through the K to 12system as a student, I didn't necessarily like it that much.
And now here I am trying to lead it and getting a master's and then a doctorate in it andtrying to do all those things because we are driven by that idea of we want to try to
(06:38):
change the environment we had to go through as well.
And there's so many heavy values that influence that.
which actually sets us up really well for our first segment on grounded moments.
Rooted in wisdom, driven by purpose.
(06:59):
Welcome to Grounded Moments and to build some momentum here.
I want to start by asking you, what's one thing grounding you in what you're doing now?
Honestly, what grounds me and what I'm doing now is my own children and a sense ofcommunity.
I have two young children, they're two and four, and so just really starting theireducational journey and seeing the importance of the learning environments that they're a
(07:26):
part of and wanting them to feel powerful at school and ownership of their education andsupported.
You know, that continues to ground me in the professional work I do.
yeah, I think, you you wake up every day and feel this purpose of, you know, educationshould be equitable and meaningful and empowering for all kids.
(07:50):
And I see it in the two little faces I see 24 hours a day.
I totally get that I've got two my own and It doesn't matter what level they're at andthey're not old at all They're both under three but whatever level they're at the learning
process and helping them and seeing people develop is always really fun and we've beengoing to these kids classes lately and we go to soccer and my goodness soccer these soccer
(08:14):
teachers for kids under three are just incredible because they've got kids runningeverywhere taking their equipment screaming throwing tantrums and they just roll with it
right and it's a great thing and but
What's so weird to me is there's all of a sudden a shift where as soon as they hit andthey actually give kindergarten grades, but as soon as they hit grade one, now all of a
(08:34):
sudden there's these massive expectations on how you should be.
And it's usually a streamlined process that a lot of people can't conform to.
And that's what makes learning difficult in schools and it works backwards.
And it's about meeting people where they're at with that.
Now.
Now before the show, I asked you to provide a quote that resonated with you.
(08:58):
And the quote you chose is, students begin to own language and use it to communicateauthentic and whole messages, as teachers allow and value collaboration, and as schools
treat students as thinkers with ideas worth sharing, a learning culture can form.
And that's from Jeff, I might butcher his last name, Jeff Zwires.
(09:18):
Now, can you...
Kind of expand on this.
Where did you get this quote from and why did you pick it?
So this quote actually comes from a book, you're close, Jeff Zwiers, close enough.
And it's a book that we actually use with all of our participants in our first nationalfederal grant.
And this quote resonates because it's just this deep connection, I think, betweeninstructional strategies, the way that we support teaching and learning.
(09:49):
for our students in the classroom and also the importance of culture, treating students asthinkers, really having those high expectations, valuing them as individuals.
When those pieces are in place, then we can truly have the learning culture and kind of toconnect to both of us and our kids, it's wanting for my own kids, I feel it so profoundly
(10:12):
and deeply and that.
connects to when I go into schools, I want every child to be able to feel like this wholeamazing person who belongs there.
And I think sometimes we think that, it's all about how the relationship a teacher haswith the student, and are they kind?
Do they make the student feel welcoming?
And that is very, very important.
We talk a lot about culture at Ensemble Learning, but so much of it is also like, howis...
(10:38):
learning framed and scaffolded and supported so that students are learning effectively andcan use language in a super powerful way.
And so this text was something that really guided the way I thought about, you know, howdo we break down instructional strategies to support multilingual learners?
And it's something I go back to.
(10:59):
And so I just, pulled this quote from it because it just,
It kind of captures that full idea of the importance of being supported in language andidentity are so intertwined and being supported in that in the classroom.
And Katherine, you mentioned the importance of embedding and infusing culture into thisand infusing communication into this and leaning on this quote, there's a big connection
(11:23):
that can be made.
Can you walk me through what this looks like as you're bridging it in a classroom for aschool?
Yeah, you know, when I work with a teacher, we work with a school or even like a wholedistrict, we always start our work with a little bit of like a landscape analysis and
audit.
And in that work, we always take a look at both culture and instruction because neithercan live in a vacuum to, you know, to create powerful learning environments, especially
(11:54):
for our multilingual learners.
And so,
If it's, let's take a classroom for example, if you walk in and some of those culturalpieces aren't in place where there's not kind of that, we use the Zaretta Hammond idea of
warm demander as well, but if there's not that warmth in the relationship, but also nothigh expectations and a student and a teacher holding students accountable to learning
(12:17):
because they believe the students can learn at a high level.
then that's where we'll start with a teacher and we'll say, hey, let's put some of thesepractices in place that lead to kind of emotional security, building relationships,
getting to know students on an individual level.
And then also let's maybe interrogate some of the beliefs you might have in students.
(12:40):
It might be some implicit biases that often teachers aren't aware of.
It's, you know.
Teachers are working so hard day to day that sometimes they can't pause and interrogatesome of those beliefs.
And so working on those culture strategies, when those are in place, then we're able tomove and say, OK, what are some of these instructional strategies that do allow students
(13:02):
to use language authentically?
And so looking a lot at the ratio of teacher to student talk and saying, are you
giving students opportunity to grapple with the language, discuss content, and then areyou giving them exemplars?
Are you modeling the academic language?
And then are you giving them supports like sentence stems or frames and thoseopportunities to interact authentically with peers in ways where, again, you're saying
(13:27):
what you have to say is important and valued and...
we're all going to share those ideas.
So that's kind of where we start is like the really foundations of culture and then ofinstructional practices.
And I could keep you here all day and talk about instruction because clearly I'm like avery large nerd for that.
But that's kind of where we start.
(13:49):
I call myself a nerd in things all the time and people correct me and say you'repassionate.
And I like to call myself a nerd in some of the things that I do.
I'm a nerd when it gets into talking instruction too.
we could maybe we have to shoot another episode solely for teachers and unpack thataltogether.
Now I will push back on one thing you said and it was you know my favorite quote is highexpectations as an act of love.
(14:11):
Mm-hmm.
expectations as an act of apathy.
However, I don't really think it's a pushback.
I'm just saying pushback to get some attention here.
it's my idea is when you're high expectations, it needs to be around the behavior and notthe outcome, right?
So I have high expectations that everybody that I'm around is gonna put their best footforward when we try to do something together, right?
(14:32):
I have high expectations that when we're learning a new skill, you're going to put yourbest effort into learning that skill.
and it's up to us to find the right way for you to learn, right?
So setting those high expectations, I think is very important, not just for kids, not justfor teachers, but if you're in an organization, your employees, yourself as a leader,
(14:55):
setting high expectations, again, is an act of love.
And what you're bringing it back to is that idea of what do we want to be accountable forand empowered to do?
versus what are we being held to do, right?
So I think oftentimes when people don't like words like high expectations and beingaccountable, they often just are used out of context, right?
(15:19):
Or used, not incorrectly, because those are correct ways to use them, but maybe not bestpractice.
I think something you're saying resonates with, you can't have high expectations withouthigh support.
And I love really.
so much of it is, I think about, I taught high school math and I taught geometry, whichmany people find really, really challenging.
(15:47):
And so I would continue to have to go back to students and say, look, you...
you will be able to do this.
My expectation is not that you can immediately do it right now.
My expectation is that you are utilizing all of the supports and the scaffolds and theresources that I'm setting up for you that your peers are providing to be on a pathway
(16:09):
there.
And my expectation is you will get there.
One student might get there today.
One student might get there in a week after coming to tutoring or...
using an alternate assessment that I provide.
there are, everyone is different and deserves those individualized pathways.
But it's, if a student looks at you and says, you don't actually think I can do that, theycan tell, then that's the first step of they're not gonna get there.
(16:35):
But I think you're exactly right.
Sometimes we just say, accountability and I give students this really rigorous assessment,because I know they can do that work.
And it's like, well.
but what's their path there and what have been the you know, the differentiation we'veprovided.
if you're an organization that has to meet deadlines or you're an organization that'sdriven on sales or driven on commission, you can't afford to stretch out the, you know
(17:02):
what, it's okay, we'll get it done when it gets done with people.
And that's fair too.
What I would say to that is you need to make sure that you also have some leniency on theprocess to the sale.
The high expectation is that you're gonna make the sale, right?
The support is how you're gonna get there, right?
(17:22):
And it's about giving the training, the tools, the resources available to help people getto the sale.
Now, Katherine, again, we could dive into this for an entire episode, but we'll move onhere just for sake of time.
Have you heard of an elevator pitch?
So,
It's a great quote.
It's a great message.
The idea of infusing the two.
(17:43):
I'm to give you approximately 20 seconds to pitch to the audience why this is so importantto them.
And speaking of selling, let's sell them on this value.
So I'll back up a little bit and give you an elevator pitch on why supporting multilinguallearners is so important because I think it connects and resonates to a lot of things.
(18:03):
Multilingual learners or students who are still developing academic English are thefastest growing student population in the US and all of our classrooms are going to be
filled and enriched with multilingual learners and looking ahead.
And when teachers and leaders can set up school environments where we're focusing andembracing supporting bilingualism, multilingualism, and these learners, it's an
(18:28):
environment where all students thrive.
And so it's building kind of this promise of the United States of this idea of amulticultural, multilingual society.
And our schools are just the center and the place to start that.
And multilingual learners go through a lot of adversity along the way, trying tounderstand every little process and to code it within their brains.
(18:49):
And that brings us to our next segment, which is all about handling adversity of headwindsand tailwinds.
Through storms and surges, discover the lessons from headwinds and tailwinds, where wefocus on the challenges that test us and the forces that help us move forward.
So let's set the stage here.
(19:10):
Can you share a time when you faced significant adversity and what was happening and howdid it feel in that moment?
So I don't think my example is gonna be far off for a lot of folks because we all wentthrough the COVID pandemic in 2020, but at Ensemble Learning, we were really kind of right
(19:32):
in the tail end of our first cohort of participants in our first, I think it $7 millionfederal grant.
And we were working with leadership teams at schools to help them.
really interrogate their culture, their instruction, and make some really positive changesfor multilingual learners and the Pandemic Kit.
(19:53):
And everything that our team had really spent months planning and putting together,putting into a grant proposal and then planning on the ground had to shift because partner
schools were closed, no in-person activities were happening.
And so we really stepped back and looked at what are the goals of
this program and how can we obviously like meet all of the requirements of the pandemic,move things in a remote way, but still work to meet the goals of the grant, but also
(20:26):
recognize the unique moment that we are in and use the forced shifts for us of like,moving things remotely to also say what different challenges our school is facing right
now, which were tremendous.
and how can we adapt our programming to meet them where they are.
so, you know, was just, obviously it was sudden for all of us, but you know, we were ableto, we had a little bit of time before our next cohort of schools began to really rethink
(20:57):
and use feedback from partner schools and shift some things around.
So what was the turning point in that where things started to shift?
We, it was really interesting because we were, as we all know, things kind of shut down inMarch and we were starting with our next cohort of schools at the beginning of the next
school year, kind of the April, I'm sorry, August, September time.
(21:22):
So we had some time to plan and we also had some time to observe and see what challengesschools were facing and.
we decided we used to do kind of these like really fun like full day PDs, we'd havecatered food, we'd have like teams meet and then they'd also get to network with other
(21:42):
schools and it was really great and it was, you know, we very quickly said, you know, wecan't do that.
No one wants to sit on Zoom all day.
That is absolutely not happening.
And we also said everyone's dealing with trauma from this.
So their ability to process larger amounts of information isn't gonna work either.
And so we took our goals and we actually chopped it into these bite-sized pieces where wewould have a synchronous zoom, but then we would do a lot of follow-up coaching with the
(22:11):
team really to meet them where they were at.
And so was using all the kind of anecdotal information, all of the qualitative data wecould bring in about what people were going through in the pandemic to make a shift.
And then as we...
met with teams as we kind of went through the programming, we were absolutely intenseabout gathering feedback and saying, how is this working for you?
(22:35):
What's working?
What do you need?
And working to be nimble as we continue to administer programming.
And that's so powerful what you just said and being trauma informed kind of helps withthat decision process moving forward because so many organizations and education places
(22:56):
and whatever business it was took the wrong approach when COVID was quote unquote over,right?
They said we have so much catch up to do.
We have to do X, Y, Z and we have to do it two to three times faster than what we weredoing before.
to make up the ground, wherein recognizing, you know, it was a traumatic thing for a lotof people to go through.
(23:18):
And when people experience those moments, they cannot, they cannot pick up X, Y, Z, andthey cannot pick it up two times faster.
And so there is a massive struggle and a pushback and some challenge between we need tobreak this down.
We need to slow it down.
We need to check, okay, are high expectations that were here now need to be
(23:41):
here and there's still high expectations but because of what's happened externally we haveto change the way we function and every organization that recognized that and did that was
able to lead through it quite well and so to find success leading through it just likeEnsemble was right there's a shift in what you have to take on and it leads to
(24:05):
It leads to success.
that intentional?
Was that mindful within the organization?
Yeah, think one of the benefits of being an educator is I think we're aware of from timein the classroom, working with teachers, we're aware of the impacts trauma has on our
(24:26):
ability to learn.
so I think recognizing, using our experience in the classrooms and saying, yeah, ifsomething traumatic happened in our school community, we weren't.
back to business as usual right away.
We had to focus on the needs of students, but we also couldn't throw away and say, oh, Iguess you're not learning geometry this year.
(24:49):
Things were hard, but you're right.
It's about adjusting and saying, what is most key and most important?
And let's prioritize that and do that really well and reduce a big part of what we triedto do was reduce the noise for
schools say, we know you have a lot going on.
(25:10):
We know that you still have English learners who need support.
So let's help you hone in on one or two things you can do to really move the needle forthose students versus, you know, maybe before we would say, oh, here are like eight to 10
different strategies.
Think about these, you can learn them.
(25:32):
And it was like, no, we don't have the mental space for that.
Part of our job as experts on multilingual learning is to streamline for you and makethose recommendations in times where you can't be doing everything.
Now, I wasn't in the meetings, I wasn't a part of ensemble learning and I'm not a part ofensemble learning, but I'm assuming at some point in executive meetings or team meetings,
(25:55):
the conversation was we need to do something a little different now and what does thatlook like?
And the conversations were, my God, we're not sure yet.
And eventually got to a point of here's what we can do.
What was one thing that gave your team or even you some wind at your back when you neededit most in trying to figure out what those next steps were?
I think it was...
(26:16):
Really the connection, the personal connections with our, mainly the school leaders of theteams we were working with.
And I think it was building their trust and getting their feedback and really buildingtheir trust by saying, when you give us feedback, like we will implement it and use it.
(26:38):
And like, we trust you and we need to, we wanna know what's going on and we wanna be herefor you.
And.
It was really those relationships and seeing, know, we would get great critical feedbackof, we need this thing in another way, but we'd also get a lot of really positive
feedback.
Hey, like you all shifted things in a way that like really helps us and knowing that youhad an impact on someone in a tough time and met them where they needed you to was
(27:03):
extremely, you know, extremely motivating for us to.
you know, keep doing the work and to keep pushing forward.
So for people and organizations facing their own headwinds, what's one thing they can doto keep moving forward despite this storm and adversity that they're facing?
Yeah, think it's about really pausing and honoring voice and feedback, whether that'sinternally pausing and talking to people in different roles in the team and saying, you
(27:34):
know, let's get some more voices.
you know, I think sometimes when we face crisis, we close off a little bit or leadershipteams can sometimes close off.
And what's really important
for our senior leadership team is to pause and really talk to the rest of our team, peoplewho are on the ground in schools.
And so it's getting that feedback and getting different perspectives and then also turningand looking at the experience of your clients.
(28:00):
For example, we like to do empathy interviews with students, with staff, reallyunderstanding.
the experience that they're having and going through.
And so it's really gathering that information and being responsive to the feedback you'regetting.
It can also just be really motivating as a leader to remind yourself, you're not alone.
You have an amazing team.
You have a lot of expertise that you can tap into.
(28:24):
And often when we face adversity, it brings about change, which is either a small changeor a big change.
And that actually sets us up for our next segment here on Ripples of Change.
Small shifts, big waves.
This is Ripples of Change, where we dive into the power of embracing change and makingwaves that last.
So Katherine what's one recent change that you've embraced or led?
(28:48):
So something that we, every call I have with a school leader, a potential partner school,is we are seeing a huge influx of newcomer multilingual learners at our partner schools
and in the US in general.
And newcomer multilingual learners are students who have been in the US for three or feweryears who are still acquiring academic English.
(29:11):
This is really huge in our populations, in our schools.
And while we expected it, while we seeing these patterns of immigration, I think thediversity in the needs and also the strengths of these students are really, have been kind
of unexpected for our schools and realizing, a really large...
(29:32):
Yeah, diversity of resources is needed to support these students.
And so we've really been digging into research, looking at school models, understandingthe needs of newcomer students, and really working to build out some guides, some
coaching, some PDs, some just supports for schools to be able to rise up and kind of meetthis.
(29:57):
change in their student population and the needs in their schools.
Now implementing change can come down to two moments, right?
That first step and that final move.
What was your first step and are you at your last step yet?
I don't think we're at our last step.
I'll start there.
I don't think we're at our last step because so much of our work and partnering withschools is, like I said, listening to the school leaders and the teachers and
(30:25):
understanding their needs.
I think...
Like I noted, the diversity of students that we're seeing under this umbrella of newcomersis really vast.
And so I think we're always gonna be working on this, maybe refining our model, kind of acontinual improvement model.
Our first step to get things kind of moving is actually building an awareness.
(30:49):
I think for a lot of schools, this change was sudden and not something...
they'd maybe thought about or especially we think about the secondary level, if you'reteaching a classroom of even 20 kids and suddenly one student comes in who really has no
English repertoire, like that really shifts how you're thinking about teaching that class,just one student.
(31:16):
And so the first step I think is what we found was building that awareness of like who areour newcomer.
emergent bilingual students, what are some of their needs and what we do first is say, aresome of the low hanging fruit that we can immediately do to build the culture that's gonna
welcome these students and then start to give them access to the learning?
(31:40):
And some of those first steps are like, what's your intake process?
The first day a student steps on campus, like.
Who's meeting with them?
How are you finding someone who does speak the same native language they're speaking?
And then as simple as in the classroom, is there another student who speaks the samelanguage that can immediately just be a buddy and a support before we think about more
(32:05):
complex kind of supports that the school does.
organizations outside of education, that's why it's so important when you hire somebodynew to have some kind of onboarding process.
Because what you're really doing is understanding at a deeper level who it is you hiredand how they function.
Because their resume and their interview are two totally different things from who they'regoing to be in your workplace because at this stage and age
(32:33):
Most people know how to put together a pretty solid resume and most people know how togive some good responses in an interview.
They know what's expected of them.
And it's so important that you take the time once they're in that position, once they canfeel that relief of, I don't have to put the front on anymore.
Who are you?
What are you bringing?
And, you know, one of the hardest decisions to make is if they're not the right personbecause they're different from that and what they sold you on, it's recognizing that too
(32:59):
and addressing that.
And sometimes it's letting go, right?
And sometimes it's finding, surrounding yourself with the people that you need to surroundyourself with.
But sometimes it's also, we can work with that, here's what we need to do.
But you'll never get there if you don't seek it out first.
It's about being proactive in those situations, which is exactly what you're doing.
So with that, change can either create positive momentum or some unexpected setbacks.
(33:22):
And so in what you're doing, in these steps you've taken, what's been one ripple effectthat you didn't see coming?
I think something that's been really interesting...
Yeah, something that came up in a recent conversation is...
Serving newcomer students, like this new change challenge for schools, has really made usturn back to the importance of research and research-based practices.
(33:48):
And I think that a lot of times schools get so focused on what's immediately in front ofthem, or leaders get really focused on what's immediately in front of them, that
we don't go back to this idea of the importance of like, what is the research telling usabout best practice or strong practice?
so I think that's been a really positive ripple effect is people said, wait, this is areally new challenge, a very new type of student need.
(34:16):
And I think it's forced educators to kind of take a step back, turn back to the research,turn back to, you know, literature.
What's...
what are best practices, how do we implement them?
Which I think is amazing because so often when we're dealing with challenge, we're justkind of in go, go, go mode.
We all know, unfortunately, schools are underfunded.
(34:40):
don't have the luxury of time and staffing always at schools.
And I think, interestingly, this has really forced people to pause and reflect and look at
really examine what our best practice is in order to face this just higher need populationcoming in.
So what are you doing and what is Ensemble doing to make sure that the changes you'resuggesting and implementing and working through become a part of culture and aren't just a
(35:08):
trend?
Yeah, we talk a lot with our leaders about change management and we use John Cotter'smodel.
There's so many models for thinking about change management, but one of the biggest thingsthat we really work on is this idea of like, do we keep, well, twofold.
(35:28):
One is how do we look at this change as part of a bigger
initiative and movement of the school.
So if we're coming in to partner with the school, we don't want a school to have, know,this is our strategic plan over here that we've had in place, and then Ensemble's coming
in and doing this other thing with us.
(35:49):
So first it's really building that buy-in and saying, what is, what are we doing thatmoves in the same direction as your strategic plan?
How do we really make this relevant?
And then the second piece is, how do we keep this
work at the forefront.
And a big piece of that is celebrating.
Celebrating those small wins and saying, for example, we might say we're serving thesenewcomer emergent bilingual students.
(36:14):
We are doing a professional development with teachers on two strategies they can use intheir classroom.
And then really making sure
that the school leader ensemble, we come back when we do a walkthrough, it's celebrating,hey, we saw this here and this here, and we wanna highlight that and keep the momentum
going, keeping it front of mind.
(36:36):
And then I think just the last piece is also being open, kind of talked about this, tofeedback and really asking all your stakeholders, how is this going?
Is this supporting you?
We know that.
serving newcomer students has been challenging.
Are these strategies supporting that?
Are they moving you in the right direction?
(36:56):
If not, what else do you need?
And really, on our end, being really humble and saying what you have to say is reallyimportant and we want to integrate it into the plan in order to keep moving forward.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
And the consistency behind a message that needs to be sent is very important to see itssuccess.
And you talked about it by building momentum, right?
Having momentum, recognizing, acknowledging, and being receptive.
(37:18):
Those are all things that hover around a general idea of consistency and keeping it in theforefront of our minds.
Rooting it back to that core value that Earth is just as important as well and rememberingwhy you're doing things.
so continually within those meetings,
Hey, we saw you doing this.
I love that because it aligns with this and you add to that statement.
(37:39):
It's so powerful.
Now for these people, some of these changes that they make lead to bigger decisions,innovative decisions, bold decisions.
And that sets us up for our last elemental segment, which is spark or burn.
Ignite your ideas, face the flames.
(38:01):
This is Spark or Burn, where we talk about bold decisions, big risks, and the fires thateither spark success or burn lessons into our memory.
So Katherine, can you tell us about a time when you made a bold leadership decision ortook a major risk and what was the spark behind it?
Yeah, will kind of say, Ensemble Learning is small.
(38:22):
Right now, I think we have 13 employees.
When I came on in 2019, we had four.
So we've always been small and we've been really working to move from just being grantfunded to also having some of the fee for service and earned revenue.
And so really always looking out for those opportunities to be able to partner withschools.
(38:46):
A bold decision we made about two years ago was actually we chose to exit from apartnership with a school.
And as a somewhat scrappy startup nonprofit, that's really scary to say no to some fundingon the table.
But it was really important for us to hold strong to our values and what we know is bestfor students.
(39:08):
And the reason we moved away from the partnership is that
they had some significant work that needed to be done around culture and around reallyimplicit bias around like what we've talked about, high expectations for multilingual
students.
And they had some greater kind of culture mindset needs that are not our bread and butterat Ensemble.
(39:30):
And we connected them with some really great organizations that focus on culture, focus onmindset that is their expertise.
and said, we would love to work with you, but we want to help you first get some of thesefoundational practices.
And that sticks out to me.
And we talk about it rather frequently at Ensemble about, we have these values, we havethis mission.
(39:54):
And part of the hard work we have to do as leaders is steward the organization in thatdirection and make sure that the work that we're taking and the work that we're doing.
is in service of those things.
And that's why it's so important to make sure you're servicing not all people, but theright people, right?
(40:15):
And the right people are the people that have the problem or need support in what you'reable to offer support in.
And recognizing that as an organization is very important because, and you know, this issomething that makes schools specifically a very difficult place is their job is to give
learning to everyone.
(40:35):
That's such a big statement because when we say everyone, we mean everyone and from allshapes and walks of life.
But when you're in a separate business section, it doesn't need to be everyone.
It needs to be enough people that your business can sustain and make an income and you cansurvive off of it and move away from just writing grants all the time to having a
(40:55):
sustained revenue if that's your goal with the business.
But you need to make sure that you're certain like the people you service, it's
people you can give quality to.
And that's a great recognition that we are, and you and us, we're not at a stage where wecan give you the support you need because you need to go here first.
(41:16):
Now, we're not trained in that, so we can't do that.
But once you're done it, maybe we can help you, right?
And that recognition is scary because it probably feels like an all or nothing moment,especially as a startup, like...
man, if we turn them down, that's business that's not coming to us.
That's revenue that's not in our pockets, right?
Now, where are we gonna get funds to keep lights on type of thing, right?
(41:39):
So along the way of parting that partnership, there had to have been a strategy adjust inensemble learning where you guys said, this is the stance we're taking and here's our
strategy moving forward.
Can you share that a little bit?
Yeah, I think a big piece of it is conversations on our team about our values and explicitconversations about just that of like, hey, we're still this kind of startup-y mode.
(42:09):
For us, we're remote, so we don't have to worry about keeping lights on at an office, butwe are a very human-centered organization.
And so...
we really think about, once we hire someone, we don't want it to be like, hey, you'rehired for this project, and then you're done, that's all.
We really wanna build up our team.
And so it's a matter of not just keeping the lights on, but keeping people employed andsatisfied and supported in their work.
(42:36):
And so a big part of it was conversations.
around like it's looking at it from multiple angles.
It's bringing in kind of the business side and saying, okay, what are the ramifications ofnot taking this partnership?
Like how does that affect our bottom line?
How close are we to other goals, you know, for fee for service partnerships?
(42:57):
But it's also looking at, you know, I'll make up some numbers.
Let's say it was something small, it was a $10,000 project, but because it was somethingoutside of our wheelhouse,
we might've been putting $20,000 worth of man hours to really try to meet their needs.
So it's also being smart about kind of protecting ourselves and a dollar in is not just adollar in, because we have to, we provide those services too.
(43:27):
And something I really appreciate about our team is we refresh our organizational values.
every few years as a full team.
And we really look at what are folks individual values?
What are the values kind of connected with our mission and our vision, why we do thiswork?
And I would say we're a very values driven organization.
(43:48):
And we actually are right now in a values refresh.
And I love what's coming out because it's a little bit different from what we've had, butwhat captures how I feel every day at work.
how it's okay to make these decisions because, you if we're spending a lot of time onculture and something outside of our wheelhouse, where there are great organizations who
(44:12):
do that work, you know, we're not living our values of being able to provide the servicesthat we are really great at.
And honestly, it also really pushed us to say, hey, we need to build partnerships withother organizations so that we know who to point to.
we can say to the school, hey, this is not us right now.
We'll come back in a year after you've done this work, but here are three of our partnerorganizations that we think will really help you.
(44:39):
And then we kind of have this coalition working in the same direction that's reallyexciting and motivating for the work in general.
That's awesome.
And to recognize that you should revisit, and I like that you call it a refresh on values,it keeps you guys aligned at Ensemble and it makes sure that that message being put out is
a consistent one where everybody's on the same page.
(45:01):
And it really helps when you have to make a decision after of remembering what you standfor.
So rooting it back is so important.
What's a bold or daring method you would give to our audience?
when they are considering taking a risk, making a decision.
What's one way they can navigate that?
Yeah, I think...
kind of similar to what we did, think it's important to kind of define your framework forhow you're thinking about the decision and really think about, it's a personal decision,
(45:34):
think about for you or your family, what values really drive your family?
But when it's professional, when it's part of the organization, taking a moment to pauseand kind of say, well, what's our framework for thinking through this?
Like what is the impact on the bottom line?
Like what is the kind of financial reality?
(45:54):
What's the impact on our people?
What's the impact on our overall mission, vision?
And really I think pausing and defining how you're making that decision and who needs tobe a part of it will I think help you guide the process, but also help you in the
(46:15):
communication.
Because that often is half the battle when a tough decision is made is
How are you communicating internally, externally?
How are you communicating to people who are gonna be disappointed?
How are you?
And when I've been disappointed by something, if someone walks me through and says, well,here are the things we considered and here's what we went through, that puts me at ease
(46:36):
and helps me process, that was a tough decision, but now I understand better.
makes so much sense.
Communication is the key to understanding.
It's the key to connection.
It's the key to collaboration.
And so if you are needing to make a decision, you can also ask yourself, who can Icommunicate with about this before we make that decision?
Because sometimes it's not people that you'll always think about.
(46:59):
having that initial conversation can help guide you in so many ways.
I know as a school leader myself, every time I make a decision, always pulse check myaudience first that's going to receive that decision.
and I see what do we think about it?
Where are we going with it?
Does it need to be reconsidered, tabled to another time?
So thank you so much for sharing that.
think that's a great message for people.
(47:20):
Now, our last segment here, I have been talking about in the last few episodes how I'mgonna make an intro for it just like the other ones.
I still haven't done that yet, but we are moving on to listener questions where they'veasked and we're gonna try our best to answer.
It's time for listener questions and I'm gonna just pull up one today and typically whatwe've done is we've unpacked one and it's taken a longer time than I've thought to unpack
it.
(47:41):
So, okay, here we go.
I think the question that we will unpack today.
I'm trying to implement something new with my team, but I'm struggling to get buy-in fromeverybody.
Sometimes we get pushback, sometimes we just get defiance.
Is there any strategy, any help, any advice you can give to try to bring more buy-in towhat I'm trying to do?
(48:07):
Thinking two things.
One, and you made me think about this in the last comment you made about decision making.
I think sometimes as leaders, we feel like our team wants us to be decisive and makedecisions.
And sometimes they do.
Sometimes there are things, especially like leading teachers, that they're like, can myadministrator just take care of this?
(48:28):
Like, that is not what I'm concerned about, like great.
But I encourage leaders not to be afraid of leveraging really the brilliance of teachersand the unique perspective that they have.
so in principle, I'm coaching right now.
I said this to her.
(48:49):
said, if you wanna implement this change, who are your advocates?
Who's your team that will tell you what's really happening on the ground?
And so I would bring in some representatives people who you know might be your naysayerspeople who might be your champions but figuring out and really doing a pulse check of
(49:10):
what's What's actually happening on the ground?
I always say as a leader.
I would rather have outright defiance then passive aggressive or ignoring don't tell me tomy face like yeah, I'm on board with this instructional strategy and then
Never do it.
Tell me to my face, I don't want to do this.
(49:32):
Yeah, it's really common because of sometimes the adversarial relationship we have betweenleaders and teachers that is just counterproductive.
It's fear based.
And so I think principals or other leaders can get past that by saying, like, your voiceis important.
I'm going to pull, you know, we might have official teacher leaders, department heads,grade level leads, but also opening up and saying,
(49:55):
I wanna do a pulse check about this new initiative, anyone who'd like to give me somefeedback, like here's kind of an open door, but really gathering from leaders, know,
what's going on, and then when you can get to a point where you are ready to implement,also placing teachers as leaders in the work too.
Finding your champions and you know, so much, you know, a new strategy or a newinitiative, teachers are afraid or they don't,
(50:24):
see how it will work for their population of students.
So can you have a champion?
Can you have a teacher who said, yeah, I'm doing it and it's working really well?
Can you film that teacher?
Can you show it to others?
But really showing them the pathway
also.
Yep.
And my head goes to a very similar place of, know, if you have people that you recognizealready aren't buying in, you actually recognize that, no, the camera cut out.
(50:48):
So I'll, we'll wrap it up here pretty quick, but you recognize that if, people aren'tbuying in, that means you also recognize that they don't feel like they were a part of
what you're doing.
Right.
And so you have to create a space where they feel a part of what you're doing.
They have to feel that ownership.
have to feel the buy into it.
Yeah, I will just, no, I was just saying, I'll just add one other thing.
(51:11):
And it's also like every teacher I've worked with also just wants to be recognized forwhat they're good at and where they have expertise.
And so also drawing a line for teachers through coaching or through maybe reflection,self-assessment in PD, but drawing a line from what do you already do that's a foundation
(51:33):
of this new thing.
Here's the path to get there.
And being effusive in recognizing what teachers do well and being very strengths-based,that is going to win over people and get them to see the path, see the light.
I can do this.
And I feel seen and appreciated by my leader.
Absolutely.
(51:53):
Katherine, how can our listeners get in touch with you and Ensemble Learning?
Yeah, well you can find me, Kathryn Hamilton on LinkedIn.
You can also find our website, it's ensemblelearning.org and we have a lot of freeresources there and we also do complimentary consultation.
So if you are a leader wondering about how to better serve your multilingual learners, wewould love to jump on a call, give you some ideas.
(52:18):
If a partnership is feasible and looks right, then like, you know.
Absolutely, but also if you just need some thought partnership, like we love to connectwith people and kind of bring them into our family.
And some great blog posts and other things there on our website to help people reallybegin to think about serving their multilingual learners.
(52:38):
And alchemists, as we wrap up the episode, as always, I just want to take a moment and saythank you for your listenership.
I'm so appreciative of the community that we're building together here.
And if you want to dive deeper, make sure you subscribe to our monthly newsletter forscholarly insights, actionable strategies, and an in-depth analysis of each episode.
Just reach out on our Instagram DM for the link.
(52:59):
It's also in a link tree that's posted there, but just know that I am so appreciative ofyou sticking around with us for.
this episode, you know, they run about an hour long each time.
And if you're, if you're breaking it up throughout a drive to work or you're listening toon it, to it in the background, just thank you again.
We very much appreciate it.
And I appreciate the listener questions.
It's a fun segment for me.
(53:19):
It's a way to incorporate the thoughts of other people and they've been so good.
So let's keep them going.
Let's keep them strong.
And Katherine, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to connect,collaborate and empower us through your lived experiences.
Thank you for having me and thank you to the amazing listeners and the great question.
Multilingual learners or students who are still developing academic English are thefastest growing student population in the US and all of our classrooms are going to be
(00:09):
filled and enriched with multilingual learners and looking ahead.
And when teachers and leaders can set up school environments where we're focusing andembracing supporting bilingualism, multilingualism, and these learners, it's an
environment where all students thrive.
And so it's building kind of this promise of the United States of this idea of amulticultural, multilingual society.
(00:35):
And our schools are just the center and the place to start that.
Alchemists, welcome to episode 55 of the Elemental Educator podcast.
(01:00):
I'm your host Tyler, and thank you so much for joining our community for anotherincredible connection.
If you're here for the first time, welcome to a place where we redefine leadership andchallenge the status quo.
Take a minute before the episode starts to subscribe to our YouTube at ElementalUnderscore Educator, where we upload all of our video episodes and additional leadership
(01:21):
content.
meant for anyone looking to grow.
For those returning alchemists, take some time to expand our community and share thisplatform with one other person today.
I'm so thankful for your passion and dedication to being better together.
Now get ready to let the alchemy of education ignite your passion for learning.
Today, I'm thrilled to connect with Katherine Hamilton.
(01:42):
She is the vice president of programs at Ensemble Learning, where she oversees thedevelopment, implementation, and evaluation of all pro- pro- pragmatic activities.
With nearly 15 years of experience in the K to 12 education space, specializes ineffective teaching and learning, instructional leadership, overarching strategies to
(02:03):
ensure equity for all student groups.
Katherine holds a master's degree in education with an emphasis in math education fromStamford University and a bachelor's degree in economics from Yale University.
Katherine's career has centered and has been centered on supporting leaders and teachers.
create inclusive and equitable environments for learning for all students.
(02:27):
Prior to working at Ensemble Learning, Katherine was a secondary mathematics teacher, aninstructional coach, and a director of curriculum and instruction at a public school
network in Los Angeles.
At Ensemble, she has led the implementation of two successful Department of Educationgrants focusing on leadership for multilingual learners, equity,
(02:51):
and implementation of high quality dual language programming.
Outside of work, Katherine spends most of her time with her two young sons and husband,exploring parks and museums in Los Angeles and building community with other families.
Katherine serves as the chair of a nonprofit charter management organization and donatestime to mentor young families as they navigate disability diagnoses and support services.
(03:15):
Welcome to the Elemental Educator podcast, Katherine.
It is my pleasure to have you here today.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to connect and talk to you and your listeners.
And there's such a powerful story to share even just from reading the intro.
I can't wait to dive into it, which brings me to the first big question here, which is howdid you get to where you are now?
Yeah, growing up, I always thought about being a teacher.
(03:40):
when I was in high school, I loved learning math and I felt really empowered by learningmath.
It was something that didn't necessarily come easily, but it made sense to me.
I felt very empowered by it.
And in college, when I went to continue learning,
math and higher in higher education.
I really struggled.
(04:00):
It was a different type of learning environment, really complex, obviously.
And for the first time, it was me surrounded generally by a bunch of men.
And it was this feeling that kind of I had a barrier in learning something that I lovedthat I reflected and
really realized students feel this in all levels of math a lot earlier than I did.
(04:24):
the data really shows that math is this continued kind of gatekeeper for higher educationaccess, especially for students of color.
And so I decided to go into that field and become a high school math teacher.
And I absolutely love the work.
I worked in Northeast Los Angeles about...
99 % of my students were Latinx and English learners.
(04:45):
And through the classroom, really realized that our systems aren't set up for all studentsto succeed.
And kind of moved through different roles, really enjoyed working alongside other teachersand supporting them and coaching.
And I was actually on the other side working with ensemble learning with my school system.
And I love the people at the nonprofit.
(05:07):
And the timing was wonderful where Ensemble had earned its first federal grant and neededsomeone to come on board to run that.
And I knew it was the right time to make that shift and really focus my work on supportingmultilingual learners.
And at Ensemble Learning, I always say we have the privilege, we have the luxury of havinga mission where we focus on
(05:31):
multilingual learners or English learners.
We know people teaching and running schools have a million things on their mind.
And so I've now been with Ensemble for six years and just continue to love that focus onhow do we just create equitable learning environments, both in culture and in instruction
for our multilingual learners.
That's a journey of such perseverance, resilience and a path not often taken.
(05:55):
I interviewed on an earlier episode, Dr.
Selena Fisk and you two would have a great conversation.
She's out of Australia, heavy into statistics.
There's a very powerful conversation to be had here about data informed decision making,just math people getting together.
And the second thing that's so fascinating about that to me is you talked about ityourself struggling in math and then getting a master's.
(06:17):
related to math.
it's, you know, it's kind of similar to me is that when I was going through the K to 12system as a student, I didn't necessarily like it that much.
And now here I am trying to lead it and getting a master's and then a doctorate in it andtrying to do all those things because we are driven by that idea of we want to try to
(06:38):
change the environment we had to go through as well.
And there's so many heavy values that influence that.
which actually sets us up really well for our first segment on grounded moments.
Rooted in wisdom, driven by purpose.
(06:59):
Welcome to Grounded Moments and to build some momentum here.
I want to start by asking you, what's one thing grounding you in what you're doing now?
Honestly, what grounds me and what I'm doing now is my own children and a sense ofcommunity.
I have two young children, they're two and four, and so just really starting theireducational journey and seeing the importance of the learning environments that they're a
(07:26):
part of and wanting them to feel powerful at school and ownership of their education andsupported.
You know, that continues to ground me in the professional work I do.
yeah, I think, you you wake up every day and feel this purpose of, you know, educationshould be equitable and meaningful and empowering for all kids.
(07:50):
And I see it in the two little faces I see 24 hours a day.
I totally get that I've got two my own and It doesn't matter what level they're at andthey're not old at all They're both under three but whatever level they're at the learning
process and helping them and seeing people develop is always really fun and we've beengoing to these kids classes lately and we go to soccer and my goodness soccer these soccer
(08:14):
teachers for kids under three are just incredible because they've got kids runningeverywhere taking their equipment screaming throwing tantrums and they just roll with it
right and it's a great thing and but
What's so weird to me is there's all of a sudden a shift where as soon as they hit andthey actually give kindergarten grades, but as soon as they hit grade one, now all of a
(08:34):
sudden there's these massive expectations on how you should be.
And it's usually a streamlined process that a lot of people can't conform to.
And that's what makes learning difficult in schools and it works backwards.
And it's about meeting people where they're at with that.
Now.
Now before the show, I asked you to provide a quote that resonated with you.
(08:58):
And the quote you chose is, students begin to own language and use it to communicateauthentic and whole messages, as teachers allow and value collaboration, and as schools
treat students as thinkers with ideas worth sharing, a learning culture can form.
And that's from Jeff, I might butcher his last name, Jeff Zwires.
(09:18):
Now, can you...
Kind of expand on this.
Where did you get this quote from and why did you pick it?
So this quote actually comes from a book, you're close, Jeff Zwiers, close enough.
And it's a book that we actually use with all of our participants in our first nationalfederal grant.
And this quote resonates because it's just this deep connection, I think, betweeninstructional strategies, the way that we support teaching and learning.
(09:49):
for our students in the classroom and also the importance of culture, treating students asthinkers, really having those high expectations, valuing them as individuals.
When those pieces are in place, then we can truly have the learning culture and kind of toconnect to both of us and our kids, it's wanting for my own kids, I feel it so profoundly
(10:12):
and deeply and that.
connects to when I go into schools, I want every child to be able to feel like this wholeamazing person who belongs there.
And I think sometimes we think that, it's all about how the relationship a teacher haswith the student, and are they kind?
Do they make the student feel welcoming?
And that is very, very important.
We talk a lot about culture at Ensemble Learning, but so much of it is also like, howis...
(10:38):
learning framed and scaffolded and supported so that students are learning effectively andcan use language in a super powerful way.
And so this text was something that really guided the way I thought about, you know, howdo we break down instructional strategies to support multilingual learners?
And it's something I go back to.
(10:59):
And so I just, pulled this quote from it because it just,
It kind of captures that full idea of the importance of being supported in language andidentity are so intertwined and being supported in that in the classroom.
And Katherine, you mentioned the importance of embedding and infusing culture into thisand infusing communication into this and leaning on this quote, there's a big connection
(11:23):
that can be made.
Can you walk me through what this looks like as you're bridging it in a classroom for aschool?
Yeah, you know, when I work with a teacher, we work with a school or even like a wholedistrict, we always start our work with a little bit of like a landscape analysis and
audit.
And in that work, we always take a look at both culture and instruction because neithercan live in a vacuum to, you know, to create powerful learning environments, especially
(11:54):
for our multilingual learners.
And so,
If it's, let's take a classroom for example, if you walk in and some of those culturalpieces aren't in place where there's not kind of that, we use the Zaretta Hammond idea of
warm demander as well, but if there's not that warmth in the relationship, but also nothigh expectations and a student and a teacher holding students accountable to learning
(12:17):
because they believe the students can learn at a high level.
then that's where we'll start with a teacher and we'll say, hey, let's put some of thesepractices in place that lead to kind of emotional security, building relationships,
getting to know students on an individual level.
And then also let's maybe interrogate some of the beliefs you might have in students.
(12:40):
It might be some implicit biases that often teachers aren't aware of.
It's, you know.
Teachers are working so hard day to day that sometimes they can't pause and interrogatesome of those beliefs.
And so working on those culture strategies, when those are in place, then we're able tomove and say, OK, what are some of these instructional strategies that do allow students
(13:02):
to use language authentically?
And so looking a lot at the ratio of teacher to student talk and saying, are you
giving students opportunity to grapple with the language, discuss content, and then areyou giving them exemplars?
Are you modeling the academic language?
And then are you giving them supports like sentence stems or frames and thoseopportunities to interact authentically with peers in ways where, again, you're saying
(13:27):
what you have to say is important and valued and...
we're all going to share those ideas.
So that's kind of where we start is like the really foundations of culture and then ofinstructional practices.
And I could keep you here all day and talk about instruction because clearly I'm like avery large nerd for that.
But that's kind of where we start.
(13:49):
I call myself a nerd in things all the time and people correct me and say you'repassionate.
And I like to call myself a nerd in some of the things that I do.
I'm a nerd when it gets into talking instruction too.
we could maybe we have to shoot another episode solely for teachers and unpack thataltogether.
Now I will push back on one thing you said and it was you know my favorite quote is highexpectations as an act of love.
(14:11):
Mm-hmm.
expectations as an act of apathy.
However, I don't really think it's a pushback.
I'm just saying pushback to get some attention here.
it's my idea is when you're high expectations, it needs to be around the behavior and notthe outcome, right?
So I have high expectations that everybody that I'm around is gonna put their best footforward when we try to do something together, right?
(14:32):
I have high expectations that when we're learning a new skill, you're going to put yourbest effort into learning that skill.
and it's up to us to find the right way for you to learn, right?
So setting those high expectations, I think is very important, not just for kids, not justfor teachers, but if you're in an organization, your employees, yourself as a leader,
(14:55):
setting high expectations, again, is an act of love.
And what you're bringing it back to is that idea of what do we want to be accountable forand empowered to do?
versus what are we being held to do, right?
So I think oftentimes when people don't like words like high expectations and beingaccountable, they often just are used out of context, right?
(15:19):
Or used, not incorrectly, because those are correct ways to use them, but maybe not bestpractice.
I think something you're saying resonates with, you can't have high expectations withouthigh support.
And I love really.
so much of it is, I think about, I taught high school math and I taught geometry, whichmany people find really, really challenging.
(15:47):
And so I would continue to have to go back to students and say, look, you...
you will be able to do this.
My expectation is not that you can immediately do it right now.
My expectation is that you are utilizing all of the supports and the scaffolds and theresources that I'm setting up for you that your peers are providing to be on a pathway
(16:09):
there.
And my expectation is you will get there.
One student might get there today.
One student might get there in a week after coming to tutoring or...
using an alternate assessment that I provide.
there are, everyone is different and deserves those individualized pathways.
But it's, if a student looks at you and says, you don't actually think I can do that, theycan tell, then that's the first step of they're not gonna get there.
(16:35):
But I think you're exactly right.
Sometimes we just say, accountability and I give students this really rigorous assessment,because I know they can do that work.
And it's like, well.
but what's their path there and what have been the you know, the differentiation we'veprovided.
if you're an organization that has to meet deadlines or you're an organization that'sdriven on sales or driven on commission, you can't afford to stretch out the, you know
(17:02):
what, it's okay, we'll get it done when it gets done with people.
And that's fair too.
What I would say to that is you need to make sure that you also have some leniency on theprocess to the sale.
The high expectation is that you're gonna make the sale, right?
The support is how you're gonna get there, right?
(17:22):
And it's about giving the training, the tools, the resources available to help people getto the sale.
Now, Katherine, again, we could dive into this for an entire episode, but we'll move onhere just for sake of time.
Have you heard of an elevator pitch?
So,
It's a great quote.
It's a great message.
The idea of infusing the two.
(17:43):
I'm to give you approximately 20 seconds to pitch to the audience why this is so importantto them.
And speaking of selling, let's sell them on this value.
So I'll back up a little bit and give you an elevator pitch on why supporting multilinguallearners is so important because I think it connects and resonates to a lot of things.
(18:03):
Multilingual learners or students who are still developing academic English are thefastest growing student population in the US and all of our classrooms are going to be
filled and enriched with multilingual learners and looking ahead.
And when teachers and leaders can set up school environments where we're focusing andembracing supporting bilingualism, multilingualism, and these learners, it's an
(18:28):
environment where all students thrive.
And so it's building kind of this promise of the United States of this idea of amulticultural, multilingual society.
And our schools are just the center and the place to start that.
And multilingual learners go through a lot of adversity along the way, trying tounderstand every little process and to code it within their brains.
(18:49):
And that brings us to our next segment, which is all about handling adversity of headwindsand tailwinds.
Through storms and surges, discover the lessons from headwinds and tailwinds, where wefocus on the challenges that test us and the forces that help us move forward.
So let's set the stage here.
(19:10):
Can you share a time when you faced significant adversity and what was happening and howdid it feel in that moment?
So I don't think my example is gonna be far off for a lot of folks because we all wentthrough the COVID pandemic in 2020, but at Ensemble Learning, we were really kind of right
(19:32):
in the tail end of our first cohort of participants in our first, I think it $7 millionfederal grant.
And we were working with leadership teams at schools to help them.
really interrogate their culture, their instruction, and make some really positive changesfor multilingual learners and the Pandemic Kit.
(19:53):
And everything that our team had really spent months planning and putting together,putting into a grant proposal and then planning on the ground had to shift because partner
schools were closed, no in-person activities were happening.
And so we really stepped back and looked at what are the goals of
this program and how can we obviously like meet all of the requirements of the pandemic,move things in a remote way, but still work to meet the goals of the grant, but also
(20:26):
recognize the unique moment that we are in and use the forced shifts for us of like,moving things remotely to also say what different challenges our school is facing right
now, which were tremendous.
and how can we adapt our programming to meet them where they are.
so, you know, was just, obviously it was sudden for all of us, but you know, we were ableto, we had a little bit of time before our next cohort of schools began to really rethink
(20:57):
and use feedback from partner schools and shift some things around.
So what was the turning point in that where things started to shift?
We, it was really interesting because we were, as we all know, things kind of shut down inMarch and we were starting with our next cohort of schools at the beginning of the next
school year, kind of the April, I'm sorry, August, September time.
(21:22):
So we had some time to plan and we also had some time to observe and see what challengesschools were facing and.
we decided we used to do kind of these like really fun like full day PDs, we'd havecatered food, we'd have like teams meet and then they'd also get to network with other
(21:42):
schools and it was really great and it was, you know, we very quickly said, you know, wecan't do that.
No one wants to sit on Zoom all day.
That is absolutely not happening.
And we also said everyone's dealing with trauma from this.
So their ability to process larger amounts of information isn't gonna work either.
And so we took our goals and we actually chopped it into these bite-sized pieces where wewould have a synchronous zoom, but then we would do a lot of follow-up coaching with the
(22:11):
team really to meet them where they were at.
And so was using all the kind of anecdotal information, all of the qualitative data wecould bring in about what people were going through in the pandemic to make a shift.
And then as we...
met with teams as we kind of went through the programming, we were absolutely intenseabout gathering feedback and saying, how is this working for you?
(22:35):
What's working?
What do you need?
And working to be nimble as we continue to administer programming.
And that's so powerful what you just said and being trauma informed kind of helps withthat decision process moving forward because so many organizations and education places
(22:56):
and whatever business it was took the wrong approach when COVID was quote unquote over,right?
They said we have so much catch up to do.
We have to do X, Y, Z and we have to do it two to three times faster than what we weredoing before.
to make up the ground, wherein recognizing, you know, it was a traumatic thing for a lotof people to go through.
(23:18):
And when people experience those moments, they cannot, they cannot pick up X, Y, Z, andthey cannot pick it up two times faster.
And so there is a massive struggle and a pushback and some challenge between we need tobreak this down.
We need to slow it down.
We need to check, okay, are high expectations that were here now need to be
(23:41):
here and there's still high expectations but because of what's happened externally we haveto change the way we function and every organization that recognized that and did that was
able to lead through it quite well and so to find success leading through it just likeEnsemble was right there's a shift in what you have to take on and it leads to
(24:05):
It leads to success.
that intentional?
Was that mindful within the organization?
Yeah, think one of the benefits of being an educator is I think we're aware of from timein the classroom, working with teachers, we're aware of the impacts trauma has on our
(24:26):
ability to learn.
so I think recognizing, using our experience in the classrooms and saying, yeah, ifsomething traumatic happened in our school community, we weren't.
back to business as usual right away.
We had to focus on the needs of students, but we also couldn't throw away and say, oh, Iguess you're not learning geometry this year.
(24:49):
Things were hard, but you're right.
It's about adjusting and saying, what is most key and most important?
And let's prioritize that and do that really well and reduce a big part of what we triedto do was reduce the noise for
schools say, we know you have a lot going on.
(25:10):
We know that you still have English learners who need support.
So let's help you hone in on one or two things you can do to really move the needle forthose students versus, you know, maybe before we would say, oh, here are like eight to 10
different strategies.
Think about these, you can learn them.
(25:32):
And it was like, no, we don't have the mental space for that.
Part of our job as experts on multilingual learning is to streamline for you and makethose recommendations in times where you can't be doing everything.
Now, I wasn't in the meetings, I wasn't a part of ensemble learning and I'm not a part ofensemble learning, but I'm assuming at some point in executive meetings or team meetings,
(25:55):
the conversation was we need to do something a little different now and what does thatlook like?
And the conversations were, my God, we're not sure yet.
And eventually got to a point of here's what we can do.
What was one thing that gave your team or even you some wind at your back when you neededit most in trying to figure out what those next steps were?
I think it was...
(26:16):
Really the connection, the personal connections with our, mainly the school leaders of theteams we were working with.
And I think it was building their trust and getting their feedback and really buildingtheir trust by saying, when you give us feedback, like we will implement it and use it.
(26:38):
And like, we trust you and we need to, we wanna know what's going on and we wanna be herefor you.
And.
It was really those relationships and seeing, know, we would get great critical feedbackof, we need this thing in another way, but we'd also get a lot of really positive
feedback.
Hey, like you all shifted things in a way that like really helps us and knowing that youhad an impact on someone in a tough time and met them where they needed you to was
(27:03):
extremely, you know, extremely motivating for us to.
you know, keep doing the work and to keep pushing forward.
So for people and organizations facing their own headwinds, what's one thing they can doto keep moving forward despite this storm and adversity that they're facing?
Yeah, think it's about really pausing and honoring voice and feedback, whether that'sinternally pausing and talking to people in different roles in the team and saying, you
(27:34):
know, let's get some more voices.
you know, I think sometimes when we face crisis, we close off a little bit or leadershipteams can sometimes close off.
And what's really important
for our senior leadership team is to pause and really talk to the rest of our team, peoplewho are on the ground in schools.
And so it's getting that feedback and getting different perspectives and then also turningand looking at the experience of your clients.
(28:00):
For example, we like to do empathy interviews with students, with staff, reallyunderstanding.
the experience that they're having and going through.
And so it's really gathering that information and being responsive to the feedback you'regetting.
It can also just be really motivating as a leader to remind yourself, you're not alone.
You have an amazing team.
You have a lot of expertise that you can tap into.
(28:24):
And often when we face adversity, it brings about change, which is either a small changeor a big change.
And that actually sets us up for our next segment here on Ripples of Change.
Small shifts, big waves.
This is Ripples of Change, where we dive into the power of embracing change and makingwaves that last.
So Katherine what's one recent change that you've embraced or led?
(28:48):
So something that we, every call I have with a school leader, a potential partner school,is we are seeing a huge influx of newcomer multilingual learners at our partner schools
and in the US in general.
And newcomer multilingual learners are students who have been in the US for three or feweryears who are still acquiring academic English.
(29:11):
This is really huge in our populations, in our schools.
And while we expected it, while we seeing these patterns of immigration, I think thediversity in the needs and also the strengths of these students are really, have been kind
of unexpected for our schools and realizing, a really large...
(29:32):
Yeah, diversity of resources is needed to support these students.
And so we've really been digging into research, looking at school models, understandingthe needs of newcomer students, and really working to build out some guides, some
coaching, some PDs, some just supports for schools to be able to rise up and kind of meetthis.
(29:57):
change in their student population and the needs in their schools.
Now implementing change can come down to two moments, right?
That first step and that final move.
What was your first step and are you at your last step yet?
I don't think we're at our last step.
I'll start there.
I don't think we're at our last step because so much of our work and partnering withschools is, like I said, listening to the school leaders and the teachers and
(30:25):
understanding their needs.
I think...
Like I noted, the diversity of students that we're seeing under this umbrella of newcomersis really vast.
And so I think we're always gonna be working on this, maybe refining our model, kind of acontinual improvement model.
Our first step to get things kind of moving is actually building an awareness.
(30:49):
I think for a lot of schools, this change was sudden and not something...
they'd maybe thought about or especially we think about the secondary level, if you'reteaching a classroom of even 20 kids and suddenly one student comes in who really has no
English repertoire, like that really shifts how you're thinking about teaching that class,just one student.
(31:16):
And so the first step I think is what we found was building that awareness of like who areour newcomer.
emergent bilingual students, what are some of their needs and what we do first is say, aresome of the low hanging fruit that we can immediately do to build the culture that's gonna
welcome these students and then start to give them access to the learning?
(31:40):
And some of those first steps are like, what's your intake process?
The first day a student steps on campus, like.
Who's meeting with them?
How are you finding someone who does speak the same native language they're speaking?
And then as simple as in the classroom, is there another student who speaks the samelanguage that can immediately just be a buddy and a support before we think about more
(32:05):
complex kind of supports that the school does.
organizations outside of education, that's why it's so important when you hire somebodynew to have some kind of onboarding process.
Because what you're really doing is understanding at a deeper level who it is you hiredand how they function.
Because their resume and their interview are two totally different things from who they'regoing to be in your workplace because at this stage and age
(32:33):
Most people know how to put together a pretty solid resume and most people know how togive some good responses in an interview.
They know what's expected of them.
And it's so important that you take the time once they're in that position, once they canfeel that relief of, I don't have to put the front on anymore.
Who are you?
What are you bringing?
And, you know, one of the hardest decisions to make is if they're not the right personbecause they're different from that and what they sold you on, it's recognizing that too
(32:59):
and addressing that.
And sometimes it's letting go, right?
And sometimes it's finding, surrounding yourself with the people that you need to surroundyourself with.
But sometimes it's also, we can work with that, here's what we need to do.
But you'll never get there if you don't seek it out first.
It's about being proactive in those situations, which is exactly what you're doing.
So with that, change can either create positive momentum or some unexpected setbacks.
(33:22):
And so in what you're doing, in these steps you've taken, what's been one ripple effectthat you didn't see coming?
I think something that's been really interesting...
Yeah, something that came up in a recent conversation is...
Serving newcomer students, like this new change challenge for schools, has really made usturn back to the importance of research and research-based practices.
(33:48):
And I think that a lot of times schools get so focused on what's immediately in front ofthem, or leaders get really focused on what's immediately in front of them, that
we don't go back to this idea of the importance of like, what is the research telling usabout best practice or strong practice?
so I think that's been a really positive ripple effect is people said, wait, this is areally new challenge, a very new type of student need.
(34:16):
And I think it's forced educators to kind of take a step back, turn back to the research,turn back to, you know, literature.
What's...
what are best practices, how do we implement them?
Which I think is amazing because so often when we're dealing with challenge, we're justkind of in go, go, go mode.
We all know, unfortunately, schools are underfunded.
(34:40):
don't have the luxury of time and staffing always at schools.
And I think, interestingly, this has really forced people to pause and reflect and look at
really examine what our best practice is in order to face this just higher need populationcoming in.
So what are you doing and what is Ensemble doing to make sure that the changes you'resuggesting and implementing and working through become a part of culture and aren't just a
(35:08):
trend?
Yeah, we talk a lot with our leaders about change management and we use John Cotter'smodel.
There's so many models for thinking about change management, but one of the biggest thingsthat we really work on is this idea of like, do we keep, well, twofold.
(35:28):
One is how do we look at this change as part of a bigger
initiative and movement of the school.
So if we're coming in to partner with the school, we don't want a school to have, know,this is our strategic plan over here that we've had in place, and then Ensemble's coming
in and doing this other thing with us.
(35:49):
So first it's really building that buy-in and saying, what is, what are we doing thatmoves in the same direction as your strategic plan?
How do we really make this relevant?
And then the second piece is, how do we keep this
work at the forefront.
And a big piece of that is celebrating.
Celebrating those small wins and saying, for example, we might say we're serving thesenewcomer emergent bilingual students.
(36:14):
We are doing a professional development with teachers on two strategies they can use intheir classroom.
And then really making sure
that the school leader ensemble, we come back when we do a walkthrough, it's celebrating,hey, we saw this here and this here, and we wanna highlight that and keep the momentum
going, keeping it front of mind.
(36:36):
And then I think just the last piece is also being open, kind of talked about this, tofeedback and really asking all your stakeholders, how is this going?
Is this supporting you?
We know that.
serving newcomer students has been challenging.
Are these strategies supporting that?
Are they moving you in the right direction?
(36:56):
If not, what else do you need?
And really, on our end, being really humble and saying what you have to say is reallyimportant and we want to integrate it into the plan in order to keep moving forward.
Thank you so much for sharing that.
And the consistency behind a message that needs to be sent is very important to see itssuccess.
And you talked about it by building momentum, right?
Having momentum, recognizing, acknowledging, and being receptive.
(37:18):
Those are all things that hover around a general idea of consistency and keeping it in theforefront of our minds.
Rooting it back to that core value that Earth is just as important as well and rememberingwhy you're doing things.
so continually within those meetings,
Hey, we saw you doing this.
I love that because it aligns with this and you add to that statement.
(37:39):
It's so powerful.
Now for these people, some of these changes that they make lead to bigger decisions,innovative decisions, bold decisions.
And that sets us up for our last elemental segment, which is spark or burn.
Ignite your ideas, face the flames.
(38:01):
This is Spark or Burn, where we talk about bold decisions, big risks, and the fires thateither spark success or burn lessons into our memory.
So Katherine, can you tell us about a time when you made a bold leadership decision ortook a major risk and what was the spark behind it?
Yeah, will kind of say, Ensemble Learning is small.
(38:22):
Right now, I think we have 13 employees.
When I came on in 2019, we had four.
So we've always been small and we've been really working to move from just being grantfunded to also having some of the fee for service and earned revenue.
And so really always looking out for those opportunities to be able to partner withschools.
(38:46):
A bold decision we made about two years ago was actually we chose to exit from apartnership with a school.
And as a somewhat scrappy startup nonprofit, that's really scary to say no to some fundingon the table.
But it was really important for us to hold strong to our values and what we know is bestfor students.
(39:08):
And the reason we moved away from the partnership is that
they had some significant work that needed to be done around culture and around reallyimplicit bias around like what we've talked about, high expectations for multilingual
students.
And they had some greater kind of culture mindset needs that are not our bread and butterat Ensemble.
(39:30):
And we connected them with some really great organizations that focus on culture, focus onmindset that is their expertise.
and said, we would love to work with you, but we want to help you first get some of thesefoundational practices.
And that sticks out to me.
And we talk about it rather frequently at Ensemble about, we have these values, we havethis mission.
(39:54):
And part of the hard work we have to do as leaders is steward the organization in thatdirection and make sure that the work that we're taking and the work that we're doing.
is in service of those things.
And that's why it's so important to make sure you're servicing not all people, but theright people, right?
(40:15):
And the right people are the people that have the problem or need support in what you'reable to offer support in.
And recognizing that as an organization is very important because, and you know, this issomething that makes schools specifically a very difficult place is their job is to give
learning to everyone.
(40:35):
That's such a big statement because when we say everyone, we mean everyone and from allshapes and walks of life.
But when you're in a separate business section, it doesn't need to be everyone.
It needs to be enough people that your business can sustain and make an income and you cansurvive off of it and move away from just writing grants all the time to having a
(40:55):
sustained revenue if that's your goal with the business.
But you need to make sure that you're certain like the people you service, it's
people you can give quality to.
And that's a great recognition that we are, and you and us, we're not at a stage where wecan give you the support you need because you need to go here first.
(41:16):
Now, we're not trained in that, so we can't do that.
But once you're done it, maybe we can help you, right?
And that recognition is scary because it probably feels like an all or nothing moment,especially as a startup, like...
man, if we turn them down, that's business that's not coming to us.
That's revenue that's not in our pockets, right?
Now, where are we gonna get funds to keep lights on type of thing, right?
(41:39):
So along the way of parting that partnership, there had to have been a strategy adjust inensemble learning where you guys said, this is the stance we're taking and here's our
strategy moving forward.
Can you share that a little bit?
Yeah, I think a big piece of it is conversations on our team about our values and explicitconversations about just that of like, hey, we're still this kind of startup-y mode.
(42:09):
For us, we're remote, so we don't have to worry about keeping lights on at an office, butwe are a very human-centered organization.
And so...
we really think about, once we hire someone, we don't want it to be like, hey, you'rehired for this project, and then you're done, that's all.
We really wanna build up our team.
And so it's a matter of not just keeping the lights on, but keeping people employed andsatisfied and supported in their work.
(42:36):
And so a big part of it was conversations.
around like it's looking at it from multiple angles.
It's bringing in kind of the business side and saying, okay, what are the ramifications ofnot taking this partnership?
Like how does that affect our bottom line?
How close are we to other goals, you know, for fee for service partnerships?
(42:57):
But it's also looking at, you know, I'll make up some numbers.
Let's say it was something small, it was a $10,000 project, but because it was somethingoutside of our wheelhouse,
we might've been putting $20,000 worth of man hours to really try to meet their needs.
So it's also being smart about kind of protecting ourselves and a dollar in is not just adollar in, because we have to, we provide those services too.
(43:27):
And something I really appreciate about our team is we refresh our organizational values.
every few years as a full team.
And we really look at what are folks individual values?
What are the values kind of connected with our mission and our vision, why we do thiswork?
And I would say we're a very values driven organization.
(43:48):
And we actually are right now in a values refresh.
And I love what's coming out because it's a little bit different from what we've had, butwhat captures how I feel every day at work.
how it's okay to make these decisions because, you if we're spending a lot of time onculture and something outside of our wheelhouse, where there are great organizations who
(44:12):
do that work, you know, we're not living our values of being able to provide the servicesthat we are really great at.
And honestly, it also really pushed us to say, hey, we need to build partnerships withother organizations so that we know who to point to.
we can say to the school, hey, this is not us right now.
We'll come back in a year after you've done this work, but here are three of our partnerorganizations that we think will really help you.
(44:39):
And then we kind of have this coalition working in the same direction that's reallyexciting and motivating for the work in general.
That's awesome.
And to recognize that you should revisit, and I like that you call it a refresh on values,it keeps you guys aligned at Ensemble and it makes sure that that message being put out is
a consistent one where everybody's on the same page.
(45:01):
And it really helps when you have to make a decision after of remembering what you standfor.
So rooting it back is so important.
What's a bold or daring method you would give to our audience?
when they are considering taking a risk, making a decision.
What's one way they can navigate that?
Yeah, I think...
kind of similar to what we did, think it's important to kind of define your framework forhow you're thinking about the decision and really think about, it's a personal decision,
(45:34):
think about for you or your family, what values really drive your family?
But when it's professional, when it's part of the organization, taking a moment to pauseand kind of say, well, what's our framework for thinking through this?
Like what is the impact on the bottom line?
Like what is the kind of financial reality?
(45:54):
What's the impact on our people?
What's the impact on our overall mission, vision?
And really I think pausing and defining how you're making that decision and who needs tobe a part of it will I think help you guide the process, but also help you in the
(46:15):
communication.
Because that often is half the battle when a tough decision is made is
How are you communicating internally, externally?
How are you communicating to people who are gonna be disappointed?
How are you?
And when I've been disappointed by something, if someone walks me through and says, well,here are the things we considered and here's what we went through, that puts me at ease
(46:36):
and helps me process, that was a tough decision, but now I understand better.
makes so much sense.
Communication is the key to understanding.
It's the key to connection.
It's the key to collaboration.
And so if you are needing to make a decision, you can also ask yourself, who can Icommunicate with about this before we make that decision?
Because sometimes it's not people that you'll always think about.
(46:59):
having that initial conversation can help guide you in so many ways.
I know as a school leader myself, every time I make a decision, always pulse check myaudience first that's going to receive that decision.
and I see what do we think about it?
Where are we going with it?
Does it need to be reconsidered, tabled to another time?
So thank you so much for sharing that.
think that's a great message for people.
(47:20):
Now, our last segment here, I have been talking about in the last few episodes how I'mgonna make an intro for it just like the other ones.
I still haven't done that yet, but we are moving on to listener questions where they'veasked and we're gonna try our best to answer.
It's time for listener questions and I'm gonna just pull up one today and typically whatwe've done is we've unpacked one and it's taken a longer time than I've thought to unpack
it.
(47:41):
So, okay, here we go.
I think the question that we will unpack today.
I'm trying to implement something new with my team, but I'm struggling to get buy-in fromeverybody.
Sometimes we get pushback, sometimes we just get defiance.
Is there any strategy, any help, any advice you can give to try to bring more buy-in towhat I'm trying to do?
(48:07):
Thinking two things.
One, and you made me think about this in the last comment you made about decision making.
I think sometimes as leaders, we feel like our team wants us to be decisive and makedecisions.
And sometimes they do.
Sometimes there are things, especially like leading teachers, that they're like, can myadministrator just take care of this?
(48:28):
Like, that is not what I'm concerned about, like great.
But I encourage leaders not to be afraid of leveraging really the brilliance of teachersand the unique perspective that they have.
so in principle, I'm coaching right now.
I said this to her.
(48:49):
said, if you wanna implement this change, who are your advocates?
Who's your team that will tell you what's really happening on the ground?
And so I would bring in some representatives people who you know might be your naysayerspeople who might be your champions but figuring out and really doing a pulse check of
(49:10):
what's What's actually happening on the ground?
I always say as a leader.
I would rather have outright defiance then passive aggressive or ignoring don't tell me tomy face like yeah, I'm on board with this instructional strategy and then
Never do it.
Tell me to my face, I don't want to do this.
(49:32):
Yeah, it's really common because of sometimes the adversarial relationship we have betweenleaders and teachers that is just counterproductive.
It's fear based.
And so I think principals or other leaders can get past that by saying, like, your voiceis important.
I'm going to pull, you know, we might have official teacher leaders, department heads,grade level leads, but also opening up and saying,
(49:55):
I wanna do a pulse check about this new initiative, anyone who'd like to give me somefeedback, like here's kind of an open door, but really gathering from leaders, know,
what's going on, and then when you can get to a point where you are ready to implement,also placing teachers as leaders in the work too.
Finding your champions and you know, so much, you know, a new strategy or a newinitiative, teachers are afraid or they don't,
(50:24):
see how it will work for their population of students.
So can you have a champion?
Can you have a teacher who said, yeah, I'm doing it and it's working really well?
Can you film that teacher?
Can you show it to others?
But really showing them the pathway
also.
Yep.
And my head goes to a very similar place of, know, if you have people that you recognizealready aren't buying in, you actually recognize that, no, the camera cut out.
(50:48):
So I'll, we'll wrap it up here pretty quick, but you recognize that if, people aren'tbuying in, that means you also recognize that they don't feel like they were a part of
what you're doing.
Right.
And so you have to create a space where they feel a part of what you're doing.
They have to feel that ownership.
have to feel the buy into it.
Yeah, I will just, no, I was just saying, I'll just add one other thing.
(51:11):
And it's also like every teacher I've worked with also just wants to be recognized forwhat they're good at and where they have expertise.
And so also drawing a line for teachers through coaching or through maybe reflection,self-assessment in PD, but drawing a line from what do you already do that's a foundation
(51:33):
of this new thing.
Here's the path to get there.
And being effusive in recognizing what teachers do well and being very strengths-based,that is going to win over people and get them to see the path, see the light.
I can do this.
And I feel seen and appreciated by my leader.
Absolutely.
(51:53):
Katherine, how can our listeners get in touch with you and Ensemble Learning?
Yeah, well you can find me, Kathryn Hamilton on LinkedIn.
You can also find our website, it's ensemblelearning.org and we have a lot of freeresources there and we also do complimentary consultation.
So if you are a leader wondering about how to better serve your multilingual learners, wewould love to jump on a call, give you some ideas.
(52:18):
If a partnership is feasible and looks right, then like, you know.
Absolutely, but also if you just need some thought partnership, like we love to connectwith people and kind of bring them into our family.
And some great blog posts and other things there on our website to help people reallybegin to think about serving their multilingual learners.
(52:38):
And alchemists, as we wrap up the episode, as always, I just want to take a moment and saythank you for your listenership.
I'm so appreciative of the community that we're building together here.
And if you want to dive deeper, make sure you subscribe to our monthly newsletter forscholarly insights, actionable strategies, and an in-depth analysis of each episode.
Just reach out on our Instagram DM for the link.
(52:59):
It's also in a link tree that's posted there, but just know that I am so appreciative ofyou sticking around with us for.
this episode, you know, they run about an hour long each time.
And if you're, if you're breaking it up throughout a drive to work or you're listening toon it, to it in the background, just thank you again.
We very much appreciate it.
And I appreciate the listener questions.
It's a fun segment for me.
(53:19):
It's a way to incorporate the thoughts of other people and they've been so good.
So let's keep them going.
Let's keep them strong.
And Katherine, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to connect,collaborate and empower us through your lived experiences.
Thank you for having me and thank you to the amazing listeners and the great question.
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