June 13, 2024 • 36 mins
In this engaging episode we delve into the latest from Apple's WWDC announcements. With a particular focus on Apple's bold redefinition of AI—from Artificial to Apple Intelligence—we explore the implications for consumers and the tech industry at large. We look at Apple's unique position with vertically integrated hardware, software and apps that few others can match except for maybe Google and Microsoft. Tune in as we dissect the newly announced features and speculate on how these changes might influence the broader landscape of technology, security, and data privacy.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
All right, Mark. We got a lot of Apple news to talk about today.
(00:06):
We do have a lot of Apple news, but before we talk about that, I just want to welcome everybody
for joining us to this another weekly episode. So if you're new to this podcast, it's
my self and Shashank. So I'm Mark and Shashank was the guy you first heard. We both live in
(00:31):
the South Bay in California. Some may call it Silicon Valley. And we run a meetup where
we talk to a lot of people just from working out all kinds of cool stuff. So like we talk
to people even at Apple who are working on a generally by AI things and they all come
(00:55):
to our meetup. So we made this podcast to try to make it so that we could share the conversation
that we're having with people to you guys and also just kind of shore opinions around
the news. So anyways, yeah, Shashank. New Apple announcements. So yeah, pretty cool stuff,
(01:20):
huh? I think it's okay. I think it was about time. Nothing mind blowing, but a lot of really
cool features. Yeah. So first of all, the name, it looks like they've rebranded. Yeah. So
we are the Gen AI meetup podcast. Now that AI, we weren't actually specific like what
(01:46):
that AI was. So traditionally, most people would think AI means artificial intelligence,
but Apple just stole that word and now they're like, oh no, it's not artificial intelligence.
It's Apple intelligence. So now it's like, come on, every time people say AI, they're going
to be thinking Apple intelligence, not artificial intelligence, but it literally just stole the word.
(02:11):
I mean, that would really be something like 5, 10 years down the line. If someone says AI and people
think Apple intelligence, that means like Apple is really taken over the world. See, but honestly,
they might. Their stock did overtake and video, I think. Now they're back to number two,
right behind Microsoft as the world's biggest company. Yeah. Well, so it's like second.
(02:31):
For example, you know the word podcast came from where the iPod. Yeah. I do remember podcasts
were only on iTunes way back when right. So when they when Apple made podcasts, because I think
it was Apple who made kind of the first podcast directory. Yeah. And then they sort of opened up
(02:53):
to the world. But yeah, the word podcast comes from the iPod. So it's like, it's happened in the past.
Therefore, it could happen in the future. Now podcasts, I don't think actually exist in as a word.
Like AI has been around for like a long time. But like it's not like a crazy thing to think where
(03:14):
maybe a lot of people just don't think about AI. And a lot of people have iPhones. I mean, like,
there's like over a billion people who have I think an iPhone, right? So they may just say like, oh,
AI is Apple intelligence. They might just like steal the word and then we're going to have to
call like machine learning or something. Yeah. They do have a history of doing this with a bunch
(03:34):
of their technology. I know when the first really high resolution displays came out on the phone,
it just looked like butter. You couldn't see the pixels and they called it retina display.
They do that with a bunch of things. It's butter a good thing for a display. I just imagine it's
really like really blurry. It's smooth. It's not janky. Oh, okay. It's not stuttery. You can't see
(03:57):
like the frames like jumping. It's just so smooth. Yeah. They renamed their graphics engine called
metal for their to develop games on their platforms, both iOS Mac. And yeah, now we have Apple
intelligence. I think I kind of see what they're trying to do with this. AI is cool, but it also worries
(04:21):
a lot of people. It's like, oh, it's just going to steal my data. Is this going to give me garbage
information and just hallucinate and make up random facts that isn't real. So they're trying to
rebrand AI and make it more trustworthy, make it safer. Most of the presentation tried to focus
(04:42):
on their private cloud and all the security measures that they're taking to make sure that your data
doesn't get leaked to any of these big companies, chat GPT, maybe Google if they start working with
the Gemini models. And they even said their servers like Apple doesn't know about your data, which is
(05:03):
kind of weird because Apple has your data. Well, I think they're sending it to OpenAI now. No, no,
they're not. Oh, I thought they were. So yeah, we can try to get into that nitty-gritty of this. So
I think on a high level, most they try to do most of the AI processing on device either on your
latest Mac or latest iPhone, which is right now only iPhone 15 Pro Max because these on device
(05:28):
language models need a fast enough processor. So that's only the top tier latest iPhone.
So all of this is happening on device when you summarize stuff, when you
generate text, generate images, emojis, whatever it is, all of it is happening on device, except if
(05:48):
it can't process whatever task that you're trying to do on device, it'll send it to like a, they call it
private cloud to process this AI, which is, I saw like the chart, the architecture diagram for how
they design this system and it's like multiple layers of security anonymity. And it's hidden even
(06:11):
from Apple, which you know, so all of this hoopla, I think warrants a rebranding.
Yeah, you know, I think that one thing that is interesting about Apple before we even just
talk about like the announcement and like the things that they're going to do, but because I think that
like, you know, the actual stuff they announced isn't necessarily super interesting compared to like,
(06:35):
I think we've seen it all in like other products. But like where it's kind of interesting, I think
for Apple is Apple's whole business model is selling devices. And that's really, you know, kind of
where they make their money. They make, you know, sure plenty of money on services as well. I mean,
they have things like Apple music, growing, right? They have like fitness, Apple news, you know,
(07:01):
music TV. Right. Like, so we've got all these things. iTunes has been around for a while for sure.
But I think that like kind of Apple's sort of not to mention App Store, which is the biggest
marketplaces, one of the biggest marketplaces. Oh, that's true. Yeah.
Apart from Amazon. Well, different marketplaces. Yeah, different. So I think that, you know,
(07:23):
one of Apple's kind of like core competencies is building the hardware and they also have kind
of complete vertical integration. And I don't know if there's really any other company in the world
that has as much control over the complete and total supply chain that Apple does, right? So Apple
(07:43):
is going to design their own chips. They have their own hardware that they build. They build the operating
system and like all the software that's on top of it. Plus they own, you know, they can keep everything
within their own sort of like a special walled garden. Plus all the products, they all talk with
(08:05):
each other. So even if, you know, we've seen these features before, each of the features kind of
exist on other devices, maybe in their own silos. So for example, if I have, let's say, Chattach
BT and I have that on, it's going to be an app on my phone, right? So, you know, OpenAI, they don't
(08:26):
control my phone, right? Like all they have is the app on the phone with the permissions that the app
has. Like if it's on Android or some iPhone, like an individual app has less control over the phone,
then what the operating system would have, right? And then like you have like if you control the
hardware on the phone, like you have any more control, right? So like, you know, Apple owns it, like from
(08:50):
end to end and they build everything, almost like purpose built. So I think what I'm trying to say here
is that even though it's the same feature, I would expect that the feature will be better baked in
to the operating system. And because it's baked into the operating system, they will be able to take
(09:11):
advantage of all of their hardware completely, right? So like they can make it run at like a higher,
they can make sure that their app takes like more processor for it needs to. They can maybe make like
a separate chip for this. They can have more permissions that other apps couldn't have. They can make
(09:32):
this run in things that the other apps wouldn't even be allowed to. So like for example, you know,
if you want to have something take like full advantage of the camera, regular apps can't do that,
but they have their own chip they can. So I think with Apple, they will be able to leverage
these Genai features like no other company in the world really can.
(09:56):
I agree with you for the most part. I was nodding this whole time in the background, except for the fact
that there are two other companies. So Apple, yes, Google builds their own software and a lot of
their own hardware and Microsoft, which is, you know, has the oldest operating system in the world.
Maybe well actually, no, I think Apple had, uh, mac was, but you know, that went through multiple
(10:20):
iterations. Anyway, Microsoft, very old companies been building their OS software for a while recently
started building their own chips as well. They focused on their ARM-based windows chip.
But I guess in contrast, Microsoft doesn't have a phone. They tried that for a while, failed miserably.
(10:42):
Google does have a phone, their own phone. They do have their own laptop, but the market share just
isn't there for the laptop. I don't think Chrome OS install base is nearly as much as macOS
in recent years, even though it's much cheaper. And with the Google Pixel phone, it's amazing.
(11:05):
Reviewers love it. It's so cheap, but I think it is maybe 10% of the volume in terms of sales
compared to iPhone. Maybe even like a fraction of that, even even lower. But even if Google
builds their own hardware and software, I've worked at Google hardware products for a while,
(11:26):
Nest, Cast devices. And we do need to think about having three third party partners like Lenovo,
Samsung, whatever, build devices that work with the Google ecosystem. And that adds a lot of overhead
when building software for our hardware products. Because we need to think about, okay,
(11:47):
make the standardized enough so that another vendor can plug it in and access these core APIs and so on.
And we also haven't been doing hardware for a while. Google. So I think even though Microsoft and
Google can build similar products, Microsoft was beat apple to this with Microsoft Copilot,
(12:09):
the Windows Copilot, the Office 360 Copilot, and being able to access all of your data on these
devices. I think they even added a little Copilot button on the new Surface laptops that maybe runs
on device, but probably also talks to OpenAI because they have a really good relationship.
Yeah, I think these two other companies are also trying to do it really well. And yes, I agree that
(12:35):
having fully vertically integrated software hardware is amazing because then I think we've noticed how
Nvidia has really taken over this AI world by building really good chips that can run these models
really quickly. And I think Apple is another company that is building chips that run these models
really quickly, except not on servers really far away. It's just closer to the edge in the hands of
(12:59):
physical users. It's a really interesting position. Yeah, I think so. And I think I agree with what
you're saying. It's true that Microsoft and Google both make their hardware. I mean, there's
a few companies out there that are going to make like the hardware and the software, right? So,
(13:21):
for example, Amazon makes its own hardware as well and writes off this software, right? But I think
kind of as you touched on it, I just want to like expand upon that part a little bit where you said that
with Google products, you need to think about like other vendors, right? So like, I think like
(13:42):
Microsoft, sure, Microsoft makes Windows, which is arguably one of like the most used, if not the
most used operating system in the world. I don't know if they're number one, but they're definitely up
there. And you're going to see a lot of computers being sold with Windows on it. But the thing is,
is like, there are other companies that make Windows hardware. So like, I could buy a Dell, I could buy
(14:08):
an HP, I could buy a Lenovo, right? Just for context, Windows is like 80% of the market share. Chrome OS
is 10%. Mac OS is a surprising 7.5. Really? I didn't realize that Chrome OS was higher. This was
this was a few years ago, 2021. Huh, okay. Well, there we go. Yeah. So anyways, yes, like, I mean,
Windows is huge, right? But they need to make sure that their stuff works on other
(14:34):
devices made by other companies. Plus, Windows is known for not breaking things. So, Microsoft is
really good at backwards compatibility, which is fantastic because if you have a really old
computer, it'll probably still run and get security updates. Like, I mean, there are computers
(14:57):
running like, I think still Windows XP. So like, kind of out of the wild, right? And Windows XP
came out what, like 20 years ago or something? I don't know. It's been a while. But Apple,
they will break things pretty frequently. Like, they are not worried about backward compatibility,
(15:18):
because the thing is they don't really open up to the world. Like, Apple has a lot less open-source
products than the rest of the companies. And I think there probably are some like open-source
products that Apple are working on. I can't think of any off top of my head. But I know for a fact,
for example, like Google that make Android. Android, you know, is used everywhere, right? Like,
(15:42):
you're going to see it on Google phones, sure. So they own it. But like, you know, you're also seeing
Samsung and LG and, I don't know, there's just a bunch of different, like OnePlus. You're going to
see it on a bunch of different vendors. So you have to make things cognizant of those vendors. You
don't want to break them. So if we talk about, if we include mobile and the OS market share,
(16:08):
Android is at the top with like 40 something percent and then Windows at 27 percent and then iOS at
17 percent. So we know this running on phones. I know if we just talk about all OSs, including PCs
and mobile. Because if you want to use AI on physical devices, you're going to use it both on
(16:28):
your phone, on your laptop, everywhere. And the number one most popular OS is Android. Oh, I make
sense because it's everywhere. So much Samsung phones, so many Chinese brands right now, a lot of
cheaper models. A lot of the developing country is running on Android phones. Yeah. So I think that,
(16:50):
you know, Google doesn't want to just break everybody else in the world. But like Apple doesn't care
because they don't have that problem, right? They just own all their hardware. If you're going to buy
something with iOS, it's going to be from Apple. So they can just have like complete and total control
over that stack. And I think because of that, they're going to be able to make it something that like
(17:15):
is better integrated than any other company on Earth, I would say. So I agree with that.
That's a solid point. Hardware is very important. Vertical integration is very important.
Important. Another big piece of like where data goes is all of these apps. All these servers that
store user information. So in terms of the largest apps, we have obviously Google again with YouTube,
(17:43):
Google search, Gmail, which has a lot of user data. Apple, on the other hand, doesn't have so many
cross-platform software services that people rely on. I don't know many people who use Apple Mail.
I think if anything, maybe I message with all these users, chat history is probably the biggest source
(18:05):
of user data for Apple. I don't know what they're looking at that though. And also,
No, no. I mean, Gmail isn't looking at people's emails either. I'm just saying
to leverage personal information to provide useful AI insights. So we have these companies. I think
Microsoft has a lot. A lot of cloud services, office, documents. I don't know if it's like hotmail
(18:30):
or live.com. I forget. Outlook. Yes. Outlook. email addresses with a lot of data. And all these
social media platforms, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, WhatsApp, which can plug an AI into all of these
chat portals, social media platforms and provide useful insights. So I think if we compare
(18:56):
all of these things, Google is comparable to Apple in what it can leverage in terms of user data.
And software, hardware, vertical integration at the very top with the user's data to provide cool
insights. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really, really good point. So maybe we should start getting
(19:21):
into like what Apple actually announced. I feel like we did dance around it. But yeah, they did some
so much. Yeah. Some cool stuff. So I'm going through their website now. And one thing they announced
is priority notifications. So that's pretty cool. So it seems like priority notifications are going
to take all those annoying notifications that you get. And they are going to rearrange them.
(19:48):
So just like the most important ones are at the top. So for example, maybe a slack message from
your boss will be the highest priority. And then maybe like I don't know your delivery
maybe be slightly lower and then an ad might be the lowest. I think we can skip a bunch of
(20:12):
these announcements because a lot of these features were really cool, but not necessarily leveraging AI.
Bunch of things like being able to rearrange your app icons not from top to down or you can just
place icons at the bottom and have a little bit of space. Theming, changing the icons at different
color, making it a dark theme, which Andrew has had for a while. A lot of nifty things and like SMSing
(20:37):
where messaging where you can have animation effects. If you say like, oh, this you know,
car drives really bouncy and the board bouncy is going to jump around. A lot of interesting
software features. But I think I think for the theme of this podcast, there's a lot of Apple
(20:59):
intelligence features starting with the ability to use on device models to summarize,
proofread, and generate text for you on all of these Apple devices. Yeah, and that's
incredibly exciting. I think it's very useful.
(21:23):
It's also just exciting, right? Because it's going to be something that's just there that you don't
have to go and install separately. I think that just because a software is there doesn't mean that
people are going to use it. I guess my point is, if I want to use OpenAI, I have to
(21:53):
actually download the app or I have to go to chat to be teased website, right? I'm going to
get his website. But with the Apple things, it's just going to be there and not to do anything.
It's just like, I'm going to get it so I'm going to use it because it's default.
That's true. The Google Messages quote-unquote app, even though it's something built into every
(22:16):
basic phone, has one of the largest install bases of any apps in the billions. Just because every
single Android phone comes with the Messages app to send text. So the Apple Messages app
is getting a lot of Nifty AI features, which will be cool. One of which is Image Generation. You can
both generate random images and gen emojis. So I think they had an emojis. They create like
(22:46):
animal avatars when they were trying to lean into the AR-VR hype to create an AR representation of
your face while you were facetiming or something that moved around and had a similar facial expression
to you. Now they have genitive images that you can make emojis out of. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
(23:09):
I think Facebook had something. Didn't they have the meme emojis or something like that? I'm trying
to remember. I thought that was an avatar in their VR world. Was it? I know, I think Nintendo,
like with the Wii, they had those. No, that is Apple, emoji. Oh, then what did Facebook had? I think
Facebook had something very similar in Messenger and whatnot. I can't remember. Anyways, not that
(23:33):
important. But I think that's kind of cool. It's minor, right? But it's kind of fun. The Image Generation,
although I'm not sure how cool it is. I feel like people kind of get tired of it. You can't
generate any arbitrary image. There's a couple of styles that you can choose from. Like
cartoony, artistic, and it's very low fidelity. I'm assuming all of this is running on device.
(23:58):
There's a threshold to what they can generate today. Obviously with each iPhone, it's going to
keep getting better. But it's nowhere near the quality of mid-journey, not even as good as
OpenAI's Dolly. Yeah. Also, did you see about the calculator?
Honestly, that was the best, best feature, I think. I was so excited. I was like, wow, this is
(24:24):
really cool. I know, that's really cool. So, I don't know, you could maybe explain better than that. Sure.
So, I remember like Marcus Brownlee. He's like a popular tech reviewer on YouTube.
Goes by the handle MkBHD. He was like, you know, Apple, it's been close to a decade or something
(24:45):
since the iPad came out. You don't have a calculator app for the iPad. Why are you going to make a
calculator app? I think Craig Federiggier is someone, maybe one of the heads that Apple's
software team said that we only do things when it makes sense for us to really revolutionize the
field. And with this calculator app, they actually did an amazing job. So, you can think of it like
(25:15):
less of a calculator and more of a smart tutor when you're taking notes, who's helping you
auto-complete the answers for really complex math equations. So, they combine a bunch of really
traditional AIML to recognize your handwriting, understand like a quadratic equation that you're
(25:37):
trying to solve. 5x plus 3y equals blank. And then you have other variables like 3x plus 2y equals 5.
And then it just combines all of these different things, does some calculations the back, and then
boom, it spits on an answer. You do like 20 raised to the 50th power. And then boom, it'll give you
(25:58):
an answer, put a slash and divide it by 4 and it'll change the answer in real time. So, this kind of
makes me wish that I was back in school or something to be doing really cool linear algebra that
this calculator magically helps me get the answers. Yeah, I mean, now nobody I think has really tried
(26:24):
this yet because Apple hasn't actually released it into the like the wild yet, but man, if it's like
the demo showed wild. It is really cool. I mean, I feel like with math, I really like to see things
kind of visualized. Like I'm not like great at like visualizing numbers, right? And this they could,
(26:49):
I think it could even do like graphs and stuff, right? It does. So you highlight maybe like a
quadratic equation that we were talking about. And I don't know, a little tool tip comes up and it's
like, do you want to make a graph out of this? Boom, you click it and then it plots it. And the crazy
thing is you change the parameters of the equation and the graph will adjust in real time. I was like,
(27:11):
wow, this is really beautiful Apple software, which I love. Yeah, I mean, like that's really cool.
So like I think a lot of mathematicians, you know, they'll do work on like paper or like a blackboard
or whatever, but now I could see people just like buying iPads and just do math. Like that's incredibly
(27:34):
exciting. And I wonder if maybe like because it'll be really easy to like graph it and like draw,
I wonder if we'll start seeing this kind of help compound technology because you know, maybe
mathematicians, they will be able to like iterate faster on their ideas and their theorems.
And then maybe in the near-ish future next couple of years, we're going to see a lot of just like
(28:02):
maybe more papers, more math being discovered. And then because of that, we're all going to
win being like some sort of like a bunting future. And this I think is like kind of like a small
step towards that. I think like, you know, as a side, you know, off the topic slightly, but you know,
(28:25):
progress is exponential because we build stuff with all of our current technology, right? So it's
so everything that came before. Exactly. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Exactly. So it's like,
you know, let's say 10,000 years ago, and we're all just like living in caves or whatever. And like all we
(28:48):
have is like some like rocks. It's like the technology that you have is like not much, right? Like all I
can do is like, you know, maybe like rub some sticks together, get fire. I don't know. Maybe like
take the rock, sharpen it down with another rock, and then maybe like put an axe out of that, and then I
can go and maybe use that as like some like primitive tools. But it's like a man with the caveman had
(29:13):
Chatchy PT, a chain saw, and I don't know like electricity. It's like they would be able to create
like so much more, right? And you know, we have so much more stuff, which helps us to iterate even
faster and make even a cool more new cool tools. So incredibly exciting. And this is just another
(29:37):
cool tool that I'm just happy, really happy that the world is going to get soon. I absolutely agree.
And especially with something like math, you can look at the numbers and solve these equations all day
long. But to have breakthroughs, you need to kind of like have a mental model and having graphs,
being able to visualize things and not just lost in the numbers really helps. Yeah. So what before
(30:02):
we kind of run out of time, I think one really cool or like the high level takeaway that I had from
this announcement was this is a company that has, you know, for a lot of people, at least in the US,
most of your data, you're interacting with this company's devices and it would be magical if they
(30:26):
just took all that information about you across all these platforms and did really useful stuff. So
one example that they gave, I think it was like Tim Apple as Trump's. So Tim Cook, he talked about
really. The CEO of Apple. Talked about a use case where let's say you actually might have been
(30:49):
created pretty reggae, but regardless, they gave an example where let's say you have a bunch of meetings
at work scheduled and your, let's say your friend, family member, daughter, whoever messages you and
they're like, oh, this thing is running late. Can you come pick me up at this time instead? And Apple
(31:13):
Apple intelligence, the AI, this new form of AI would look at the context of your calendar,
look at the messages that are coming through and contextualize all of this data to give you an
alert saying that hey, this thing is running late. It's going to conflict with your existing meeting.
Maybe you should try to reschedule. To do all these useful things across all these different
(31:37):
contexts as only Apple can do along with maybe Microsoft or Google is something that I've been waiting
for a while. I was like so excited when Microsoft co-pilot came out and I'm like, Apple, what the hell,
man? Like what's going on? When are you going to do something with this? I even bought the domain
Mac co-pilot or co-pilotmac.com. I still have it. Did you? I did. Because I wanted to build something
(32:00):
like this. Microsoft was steamrolling ahead and Apple is just so quiet. Siri was still the same. We
hadn't even heard any rumors. I think they were still working on the Apple car at that time. I was like,
what is going to happen? I wondered if you could sell that domain name and get Apple to pay you out on it.
Yeah, maybe. I don't know. But I was actually thinking of building something like this, similar to
(32:24):
co-pilot, to do something useful. We had way back when when maybe 10, 15 years ago when search was still
really maturing as a feature, as an industry where we had autocomplete and smart autocomplete where we had
(32:45):
the first versions of this transformer that looked at the context of where you're trying to type
and suggest helpful things. You have the Mac, what do you call it? Spotlight. Spotlight, that's the
thing when you like. Search bar. Yeah. But it comes in the center of the screen. It just pops up.
Yeah. It allows you to search for anything on your computer. But it was very limited. So a lot of
(33:07):
these companies started building add-ons to do a better search across your computer, integrate
web results. And I was like, man, if Apple is not going to do it, I kind of want to build something
that builds these genitive AI tools into your Mac, pulls in context from your file system, your emails,
your desktop, messages, whatever. But yeah, Apple is finally catching up. It's exciting.
(33:31):
Yeah. Kudos to you, Apple. We're really excited about this announcement. So Shashank, does it make
you want to buy any new Apple hardware? I mean, I have a Google Pixel phone right now and it's really
making me want to switch. Oh, really? I was a die-hard Apple fan for, I don't know, like more than a decade.
I think I went up to like the iPhone 11 or something and then I started working at Google and I was like,
(33:55):
oh, maybe I should try out Google hardware, field the ecosystem from within. And I love the Google
products. You know, the thing that really made me stay with Pixel phones for the last five generations,
apart from the fact that I work at Google, is how well they built amazing software AI features
(34:18):
on top of not to offend anyone, but mediocre hardware. Because Apple is amazing hardware. But the AI
features were god-awful compared to Google a few years ago. But now they have a lot of the same
features that Google has. So they have live transcription. I think it's on device too. You can
(34:39):
transfer like calls that you have. It does notify the other party. So, you know, to maintain privacy,
make sure you're not recording someone else without their knowledge. And being able to visualize,
you know, a transcript of someone else as you're talking to them, I think that's really cool,
especially if you're trying to call like help centers and navigate through a phone tree and things
(35:01):
like that. So yeah, a lot of AI features with secure privacy and data protection in mind and
integrated throughout the whole ecosystem. It's really exciting. It is very exciting. And now both of us
(35:23):
don't work for Apple. So I know this kind of sounded like a big Apple ad, but yeah, just completely
all. We're just just two guys who are really excited about their doing right now. I mean, like you said,
this is something that's going to push the industry forward, help people to do cool stuff. And
eventually, I think all the other competitors, Microsoft, Google are going to take keys for Apple.
(35:48):
Take the really cool features that people love and, you know, build it into their own products.
Why not? Yeah, for sure. So anyway, it's just not like I think we're about out of time, but anyways,
thanks everybody for listening and we'll catch you in the next one. Until the next time.
All right, Mark. We got a lot of Apple news to talk about today.
(00:06):
We do have a lot of Apple news, but before we talk about that, I just want to welcome everybody
for joining us to this another weekly episode. So if you're new to this podcast, it's
my self and Shashank. So I'm Mark and Shashank was the guy you first heard. We both live in
(00:31):
the South Bay in California. Some may call it Silicon Valley. And we run a meetup where
we talk to a lot of people just from working out all kinds of cool stuff. So like we talk
to people even at Apple who are working on a generally by AI things and they all come
(00:55):
to our meetup. So we made this podcast to try to make it so that we could share the conversation
that we're having with people to you guys and also just kind of shore opinions around
the news. So anyways, yeah, Shashank. New Apple announcements. So yeah, pretty cool stuff,
(01:20):
huh? I think it's okay. I think it was about time. Nothing mind blowing, but a lot of really
cool features. Yeah. So first of all, the name, it looks like they've rebranded. Yeah. So
we are the Gen AI meetup podcast. Now that AI, we weren't actually specific like what
(01:46):
that AI was. So traditionally, most people would think AI means artificial intelligence,
but Apple just stole that word and now they're like, oh no, it's not artificial intelligence.
It's Apple intelligence. So now it's like, come on, every time people say AI, they're going
to be thinking Apple intelligence, not artificial intelligence, but it literally just stole the word.
(02:11):
I mean, that would really be something like 5, 10 years down the line. If someone says AI and people
think Apple intelligence, that means like Apple is really taken over the world. See, but honestly,
they might. Their stock did overtake and video, I think. Now they're back to number two,
right behind Microsoft as the world's biggest company. Yeah. Well, so it's like second.
(02:31):
For example, you know the word podcast came from where the iPod. Yeah. I do remember podcasts
were only on iTunes way back when right. So when they when Apple made podcasts, because I think
it was Apple who made kind of the first podcast directory. Yeah. And then they sort of opened up
(02:53):
to the world. But yeah, the word podcast comes from the iPod. So it's like, it's happened in the past.
Therefore, it could happen in the future. Now podcasts, I don't think actually exist in as a word.
Like AI has been around for like a long time. But like it's not like a crazy thing to think where
(03:14):
maybe a lot of people just don't think about AI. And a lot of people have iPhones. I mean, like,
there's like over a billion people who have I think an iPhone, right? So they may just say like, oh,
AI is Apple intelligence. They might just like steal the word and then we're going to have to
call like machine learning or something. Yeah. They do have a history of doing this with a bunch
(03:34):
of their technology. I know when the first really high resolution displays came out on the phone,
it just looked like butter. You couldn't see the pixels and they called it retina display.
They do that with a bunch of things. It's butter a good thing for a display. I just imagine it's
really like really blurry. It's smooth. It's not janky. Oh, okay. It's not stuttery. You can't see
(03:57):
like the frames like jumping. It's just so smooth. Yeah. They renamed their graphics engine called
metal for their to develop games on their platforms, both iOS Mac. And yeah, now we have Apple
intelligence. I think I kind of see what they're trying to do with this. AI is cool, but it also worries
(04:21):
a lot of people. It's like, oh, it's just going to steal my data. Is this going to give me garbage
information and just hallucinate and make up random facts that isn't real. So they're trying to
rebrand AI and make it more trustworthy, make it safer. Most of the presentation tried to focus
(04:42):
on their private cloud and all the security measures that they're taking to make sure that your data
doesn't get leaked to any of these big companies, chat GPT, maybe Google if they start working with
the Gemini models. And they even said their servers like Apple doesn't know about your data, which is
(05:03):
kind of weird because Apple has your data. Well, I think they're sending it to OpenAI now. No, no,
they're not. Oh, I thought they were. So yeah, we can try to get into that nitty-gritty of this. So
I think on a high level, most they try to do most of the AI processing on device either on your
latest Mac or latest iPhone, which is right now only iPhone 15 Pro Max because these on device
(05:28):
language models need a fast enough processor. So that's only the top tier latest iPhone.
So all of this is happening on device when you summarize stuff, when you
generate text, generate images, emojis, whatever it is, all of it is happening on device, except if
(05:48):
it can't process whatever task that you're trying to do on device, it'll send it to like a, they call it
private cloud to process this AI, which is, I saw like the chart, the architecture diagram for how
they design this system and it's like multiple layers of security anonymity. And it's hidden even
(06:11):
from Apple, which you know, so all of this hoopla, I think warrants a rebranding.
Yeah, you know, I think that one thing that is interesting about Apple before we even just
talk about like the announcement and like the things that they're going to do, but because I think that
like, you know, the actual stuff they announced isn't necessarily super interesting compared to like,
(06:35):
I think we've seen it all in like other products. But like where it's kind of interesting, I think
for Apple is Apple's whole business model is selling devices. And that's really, you know, kind of
where they make their money. They make, you know, sure plenty of money on services as well. I mean,
they have things like Apple music, growing, right? They have like fitness, Apple news, you know,
(07:01):
music TV. Right. Like, so we've got all these things. iTunes has been around for a while for sure.
But I think that like kind of Apple's sort of not to mention App Store, which is the biggest
marketplaces, one of the biggest marketplaces. Oh, that's true. Yeah.
Apart from Amazon. Well, different marketplaces. Yeah, different. So I think that, you know,
(07:23):
one of Apple's kind of like core competencies is building the hardware and they also have kind
of complete vertical integration. And I don't know if there's really any other company in the world
that has as much control over the complete and total supply chain that Apple does, right? So Apple
(07:43):
is going to design their own chips. They have their own hardware that they build. They build the operating
system and like all the software that's on top of it. Plus they own, you know, they can keep everything
within their own sort of like a special walled garden. Plus all the products, they all talk with
(08:05):
each other. So even if, you know, we've seen these features before, each of the features kind of
exist on other devices, maybe in their own silos. So for example, if I have, let's say, Chattach
BT and I have that on, it's going to be an app on my phone, right? So, you know, OpenAI, they don't
(08:26):
control my phone, right? Like all they have is the app on the phone with the permissions that the app
has. Like if it's on Android or some iPhone, like an individual app has less control over the phone,
then what the operating system would have, right? And then like you have like if you control the
hardware on the phone, like you have any more control, right? So like, you know, Apple owns it, like from
(08:50):
end to end and they build everything, almost like purpose built. So I think what I'm trying to say here
is that even though it's the same feature, I would expect that the feature will be better baked in
to the operating system. And because it's baked into the operating system, they will be able to take
(09:11):
advantage of all of their hardware completely, right? So like they can make it run at like a higher,
they can make sure that their app takes like more processor for it needs to. They can maybe make like
a separate chip for this. They can have more permissions that other apps couldn't have. They can make
(09:32):
this run in things that the other apps wouldn't even be allowed to. So like for example, you know,
if you want to have something take like full advantage of the camera, regular apps can't do that,
but they have their own chip they can. So I think with Apple, they will be able to leverage
these Genai features like no other company in the world really can.
(09:56):
I agree with you for the most part. I was nodding this whole time in the background, except for the fact
that there are two other companies. So Apple, yes, Google builds their own software and a lot of
their own hardware and Microsoft, which is, you know, has the oldest operating system in the world.
Maybe well actually, no, I think Apple had, uh, mac was, but you know, that went through multiple
(10:20):
iterations. Anyway, Microsoft, very old companies been building their OS software for a while recently
started building their own chips as well. They focused on their ARM-based windows chip.
But I guess in contrast, Microsoft doesn't have a phone. They tried that for a while, failed miserably.
(10:42):
Google does have a phone, their own phone. They do have their own laptop, but the market share just
isn't there for the laptop. I don't think Chrome OS install base is nearly as much as macOS
in recent years, even though it's much cheaper. And with the Google Pixel phone, it's amazing.
(11:05):
Reviewers love it. It's so cheap, but I think it is maybe 10% of the volume in terms of sales
compared to iPhone. Maybe even like a fraction of that, even even lower. But even if Google
builds their own hardware and software, I've worked at Google hardware products for a while,
(11:26):
Nest, Cast devices. And we do need to think about having three third party partners like Lenovo,
Samsung, whatever, build devices that work with the Google ecosystem. And that adds a lot of overhead
when building software for our hardware products. Because we need to think about, okay,
(11:47):
make the standardized enough so that another vendor can plug it in and access these core APIs and so on.
And we also haven't been doing hardware for a while. Google. So I think even though Microsoft and
Google can build similar products, Microsoft was beat apple to this with Microsoft Copilot,
(12:09):
the Windows Copilot, the Office 360 Copilot, and being able to access all of your data on these
devices. I think they even added a little Copilot button on the new Surface laptops that maybe runs
on device, but probably also talks to OpenAI because they have a really good relationship.
Yeah, I think these two other companies are also trying to do it really well. And yes, I agree that
(12:35):
having fully vertically integrated software hardware is amazing because then I think we've noticed how
Nvidia has really taken over this AI world by building really good chips that can run these models
really quickly. And I think Apple is another company that is building chips that run these models
really quickly, except not on servers really far away. It's just closer to the edge in the hands of
(12:59):
physical users. It's a really interesting position. Yeah, I think so. And I think I agree with what
you're saying. It's true that Microsoft and Google both make their hardware. I mean, there's
a few companies out there that are going to make like the hardware and the software, right? So,
(13:21):
for example, Amazon makes its own hardware as well and writes off this software, right? But I think
kind of as you touched on it, I just want to like expand upon that part a little bit where you said that
with Google products, you need to think about like other vendors, right? So like, I think like
(13:42):
Microsoft, sure, Microsoft makes Windows, which is arguably one of like the most used, if not the
most used operating system in the world. I don't know if they're number one, but they're definitely up
there. And you're going to see a lot of computers being sold with Windows on it. But the thing is,
is like, there are other companies that make Windows hardware. So like, I could buy a Dell, I could buy
(14:08):
an HP, I could buy a Lenovo, right? Just for context, Windows is like 80% of the market share. Chrome OS
is 10%. Mac OS is a surprising 7.5. Really? I didn't realize that Chrome OS was higher. This was
this was a few years ago, 2021. Huh, okay. Well, there we go. Yeah. So anyways, yes, like, I mean,
Windows is huge, right? But they need to make sure that their stuff works on other
(14:34):
devices made by other companies. Plus, Windows is known for not breaking things. So, Microsoft is
really good at backwards compatibility, which is fantastic because if you have a really old
computer, it'll probably still run and get security updates. Like, I mean, there are computers
(14:57):
running like, I think still Windows XP. So like, kind of out of the wild, right? And Windows XP
came out what, like 20 years ago or something? I don't know. It's been a while. But Apple,
they will break things pretty frequently. Like, they are not worried about backward compatibility,
(15:18):
because the thing is they don't really open up to the world. Like, Apple has a lot less open-source
products than the rest of the companies. And I think there probably are some like open-source
products that Apple are working on. I can't think of any off top of my head. But I know for a fact,
for example, like Google that make Android. Android, you know, is used everywhere, right? Like,
(15:42):
you're going to see it on Google phones, sure. So they own it. But like, you know, you're also seeing
Samsung and LG and, I don't know, there's just a bunch of different, like OnePlus. You're going to
see it on a bunch of different vendors. So you have to make things cognizant of those vendors. You
don't want to break them. So if we talk about, if we include mobile and the OS market share,
(16:08):
Android is at the top with like 40 something percent and then Windows at 27 percent and then iOS at
17 percent. So we know this running on phones. I know if we just talk about all OSs, including PCs
and mobile. Because if you want to use AI on physical devices, you're going to use it both on
(16:28):
your phone, on your laptop, everywhere. And the number one most popular OS is Android. Oh, I make
sense because it's everywhere. So much Samsung phones, so many Chinese brands right now, a lot of
cheaper models. A lot of the developing country is running on Android phones. Yeah. So I think that,
(16:50):
you know, Google doesn't want to just break everybody else in the world. But like Apple doesn't care
because they don't have that problem, right? They just own all their hardware. If you're going to buy
something with iOS, it's going to be from Apple. So they can just have like complete and total control
over that stack. And I think because of that, they're going to be able to make it something that like
(17:15):
is better integrated than any other company on Earth, I would say. So I agree with that.
That's a solid point. Hardware is very important. Vertical integration is very important.
Important. Another big piece of like where data goes is all of these apps. All these servers that
store user information. So in terms of the largest apps, we have obviously Google again with YouTube,
(17:43):
Google search, Gmail, which has a lot of user data. Apple, on the other hand, doesn't have so many
cross-platform software services that people rely on. I don't know many people who use Apple Mail.
I think if anything, maybe I message with all these users, chat history is probably the biggest source
(18:05):
of user data for Apple. I don't know what they're looking at that though. And also,
No, no. I mean, Gmail isn't looking at people's emails either. I'm just saying
to leverage personal information to provide useful AI insights. So we have these companies. I think
Microsoft has a lot. A lot of cloud services, office, documents. I don't know if it's like hotmail
(18:30):
or live.com. I forget. Outlook. Yes. Outlook. email addresses with a lot of data. And all these
social media platforms, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, WhatsApp, which can plug an AI into all of these
chat portals, social media platforms and provide useful insights. So I think if we compare
(18:56):
all of these things, Google is comparable to Apple in what it can leverage in terms of user data.
And software, hardware, vertical integration at the very top with the user's data to provide cool
insights. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really, really good point. So maybe we should start getting
(19:21):
into like what Apple actually announced. I feel like we did dance around it. But yeah, they did some
so much. Yeah. Some cool stuff. So I'm going through their website now. And one thing they announced
is priority notifications. So that's pretty cool. So it seems like priority notifications are going
to take all those annoying notifications that you get. And they are going to rearrange them.
(19:48):
So just like the most important ones are at the top. So for example, maybe a slack message from
your boss will be the highest priority. And then maybe like I don't know your delivery
maybe be slightly lower and then an ad might be the lowest. I think we can skip a bunch of
(20:12):
these announcements because a lot of these features were really cool, but not necessarily leveraging AI.
Bunch of things like being able to rearrange your app icons not from top to down or you can just
place icons at the bottom and have a little bit of space. Theming, changing the icons at different
color, making it a dark theme, which Andrew has had for a while. A lot of nifty things and like SMSing
(20:37):
where messaging where you can have animation effects. If you say like, oh, this you know,
car drives really bouncy and the board bouncy is going to jump around. A lot of interesting
software features. But I think I think for the theme of this podcast, there's a lot of Apple
(20:59):
intelligence features starting with the ability to use on device models to summarize,
proofread, and generate text for you on all of these Apple devices. Yeah, and that's
incredibly exciting. I think it's very useful.
(21:23):
It's also just exciting, right? Because it's going to be something that's just there that you don't
have to go and install separately. I think that just because a software is there doesn't mean that
people are going to use it. I guess my point is, if I want to use OpenAI, I have to
(21:53):
actually download the app or I have to go to chat to be teased website, right? I'm going to
get his website. But with the Apple things, it's just going to be there and not to do anything.
It's just like, I'm going to get it so I'm going to use it because it's default.
That's true. The Google Messages quote-unquote app, even though it's something built into every
(22:16):
basic phone, has one of the largest install bases of any apps in the billions. Just because every
single Android phone comes with the Messages app to send text. So the Apple Messages app
is getting a lot of Nifty AI features, which will be cool. One of which is Image Generation. You can
both generate random images and gen emojis. So I think they had an emojis. They create like
(22:46):
animal avatars when they were trying to lean into the AR-VR hype to create an AR representation of
your face while you were facetiming or something that moved around and had a similar facial expression
to you. Now they have genitive images that you can make emojis out of. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
(23:09):
I think Facebook had something. Didn't they have the meme emojis or something like that? I'm trying
to remember. I thought that was an avatar in their VR world. Was it? I know, I think Nintendo,
like with the Wii, they had those. No, that is Apple, emoji. Oh, then what did Facebook had? I think
Facebook had something very similar in Messenger and whatnot. I can't remember. Anyways, not that
(23:33):
important. But I think that's kind of cool. It's minor, right? But it's kind of fun. The Image Generation,
although I'm not sure how cool it is. I feel like people kind of get tired of it. You can't
generate any arbitrary image. There's a couple of styles that you can choose from. Like
cartoony, artistic, and it's very low fidelity. I'm assuming all of this is running on device.
(23:58):
There's a threshold to what they can generate today. Obviously with each iPhone, it's going to
keep getting better. But it's nowhere near the quality of mid-journey, not even as good as
OpenAI's Dolly. Yeah. Also, did you see about the calculator?
Honestly, that was the best, best feature, I think. I was so excited. I was like, wow, this is
(24:24):
really cool. I know, that's really cool. So, I don't know, you could maybe explain better than that. Sure.
So, I remember like Marcus Brownlee. He's like a popular tech reviewer on YouTube.
Goes by the handle MkBHD. He was like, you know, Apple, it's been close to a decade or something
(24:45):
since the iPad came out. You don't have a calculator app for the iPad. Why are you going to make a
calculator app? I think Craig Federiggier is someone, maybe one of the heads that Apple's
software team said that we only do things when it makes sense for us to really revolutionize the
field. And with this calculator app, they actually did an amazing job. So, you can think of it like
(25:15):
less of a calculator and more of a smart tutor when you're taking notes, who's helping you
auto-complete the answers for really complex math equations. So, they combine a bunch of really
traditional AIML to recognize your handwriting, understand like a quadratic equation that you're
(25:37):
trying to solve. 5x plus 3y equals blank. And then you have other variables like 3x plus 2y equals 5.
And then it just combines all of these different things, does some calculations the back, and then
boom, it spits on an answer. You do like 20 raised to the 50th power. And then boom, it'll give you
(25:58):
an answer, put a slash and divide it by 4 and it'll change the answer in real time. So, this kind of
makes me wish that I was back in school or something to be doing really cool linear algebra that
this calculator magically helps me get the answers. Yeah, I mean, now nobody I think has really tried
(26:24):
this yet because Apple hasn't actually released it into the like the wild yet, but man, if it's like
the demo showed wild. It is really cool. I mean, I feel like with math, I really like to see things
kind of visualized. Like I'm not like great at like visualizing numbers, right? And this they could,
(26:49):
I think it could even do like graphs and stuff, right? It does. So you highlight maybe like a
quadratic equation that we were talking about. And I don't know, a little tool tip comes up and it's
like, do you want to make a graph out of this? Boom, you click it and then it plots it. And the crazy
thing is you change the parameters of the equation and the graph will adjust in real time. I was like,
(27:11):
wow, this is really beautiful Apple software, which I love. Yeah, I mean, like that's really cool.
So like I think a lot of mathematicians, you know, they'll do work on like paper or like a blackboard
or whatever, but now I could see people just like buying iPads and just do math. Like that's incredibly
(27:34):
exciting. And I wonder if maybe like because it'll be really easy to like graph it and like draw,
I wonder if we'll start seeing this kind of help compound technology because you know, maybe
mathematicians, they will be able to like iterate faster on their ideas and their theorems.
And then maybe in the near-ish future next couple of years, we're going to see a lot of just like
(28:02):
maybe more papers, more math being discovered. And then because of that, we're all going to
win being like some sort of like a bunting future. And this I think is like kind of like a small
step towards that. I think like, you know, as a side, you know, off the topic slightly, but you know,
(28:25):
progress is exponential because we build stuff with all of our current technology, right? So it's
so everything that came before. Exactly. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Exactly. So it's like,
you know, let's say 10,000 years ago, and we're all just like living in caves or whatever. And like all we
(28:48):
have is like some like rocks. It's like the technology that you have is like not much, right? Like all I
can do is like, you know, maybe like rub some sticks together, get fire. I don't know. Maybe like
take the rock, sharpen it down with another rock, and then maybe like put an axe out of that, and then I
can go and maybe use that as like some like primitive tools. But it's like a man with the caveman had
(29:13):
Chatchy PT, a chain saw, and I don't know like electricity. It's like they would be able to create
like so much more, right? And you know, we have so much more stuff, which helps us to iterate even
faster and make even a cool more new cool tools. So incredibly exciting. And this is just another
(29:37):
cool tool that I'm just happy, really happy that the world is going to get soon. I absolutely agree.
And especially with something like math, you can look at the numbers and solve these equations all day
long. But to have breakthroughs, you need to kind of like have a mental model and having graphs,
being able to visualize things and not just lost in the numbers really helps. Yeah. So what before
(30:02):
we kind of run out of time, I think one really cool or like the high level takeaway that I had from
this announcement was this is a company that has, you know, for a lot of people, at least in the US,
most of your data, you're interacting with this company's devices and it would be magical if they
(30:26):
just took all that information about you across all these platforms and did really useful stuff. So
one example that they gave, I think it was like Tim Apple as Trump's. So Tim Cook, he talked about
really. The CEO of Apple. Talked about a use case where let's say you actually might have been
(30:49):
created pretty reggae, but regardless, they gave an example where let's say you have a bunch of meetings
at work scheduled and your, let's say your friend, family member, daughter, whoever messages you and
they're like, oh, this thing is running late. Can you come pick me up at this time instead? And Apple
(31:13):
Apple intelligence, the AI, this new form of AI would look at the context of your calendar,
look at the messages that are coming through and contextualize all of this data to give you an
alert saying that hey, this thing is running late. It's going to conflict with your existing meeting.
Maybe you should try to reschedule. To do all these useful things across all these different
(31:37):
contexts as only Apple can do along with maybe Microsoft or Google is something that I've been waiting
for a while. I was like so excited when Microsoft co-pilot came out and I'm like, Apple, what the hell,
man? Like what's going on? When are you going to do something with this? I even bought the domain
Mac co-pilot or co-pilotmac.com. I still have it. Did you? I did. Because I wanted to build something
(32:00):
like this. Microsoft was steamrolling ahead and Apple is just so quiet. Siri was still the same. We
hadn't even heard any rumors. I think they were still working on the Apple car at that time. I was like,
what is going to happen? I wondered if you could sell that domain name and get Apple to pay you out on it.
Yeah, maybe. I don't know. But I was actually thinking of building something like this, similar to
(32:24):
co-pilot, to do something useful. We had way back when when maybe 10, 15 years ago when search was still
really maturing as a feature, as an industry where we had autocomplete and smart autocomplete where we had
(32:45):
the first versions of this transformer that looked at the context of where you're trying to type
and suggest helpful things. You have the Mac, what do you call it? Spotlight. Spotlight, that's the
thing when you like. Search bar. Yeah. But it comes in the center of the screen. It just pops up.
Yeah. It allows you to search for anything on your computer. But it was very limited. So a lot of
(33:07):
these companies started building add-ons to do a better search across your computer, integrate
web results. And I was like, man, if Apple is not going to do it, I kind of want to build something
that builds these genitive AI tools into your Mac, pulls in context from your file system, your emails,
your desktop, messages, whatever. But yeah, Apple is finally catching up. It's exciting.
(33:31):
Yeah. Kudos to you, Apple. We're really excited about this announcement. So Shashank, does it make
you want to buy any new Apple hardware? I mean, I have a Google Pixel phone right now and it's really
making me want to switch. Oh, really? I was a die-hard Apple fan for, I don't know, like more than a decade.
I think I went up to like the iPhone 11 or something and then I started working at Google and I was like,
(33:55):
oh, maybe I should try out Google hardware, field the ecosystem from within. And I love the Google
products. You know, the thing that really made me stay with Pixel phones for the last five generations,
apart from the fact that I work at Google, is how well they built amazing software AI features
(34:18):
on top of not to offend anyone, but mediocre hardware. Because Apple is amazing hardware. But the AI
features were god-awful compared to Google a few years ago. But now they have a lot of the same
features that Google has. So they have live transcription. I think it's on device too. You can
(34:39):
transfer like calls that you have. It does notify the other party. So, you know, to maintain privacy,
make sure you're not recording someone else without their knowledge. And being able to visualize,
you know, a transcript of someone else as you're talking to them, I think that's really cool,
especially if you're trying to call like help centers and navigate through a phone tree and things
(35:01):
like that. So yeah, a lot of AI features with secure privacy and data protection in mind and
integrated throughout the whole ecosystem. It's really exciting. It is very exciting. And now both of us
(35:23):
don't work for Apple. So I know this kind of sounded like a big Apple ad, but yeah, just completely
all. We're just just two guys who are really excited about their doing right now. I mean, like you said,
this is something that's going to push the industry forward, help people to do cool stuff. And
eventually, I think all the other competitors, Microsoft, Google are going to take keys for Apple.
(35:48):
Take the really cool features that people love and, you know, build it into their own products.
Why not? Yeah, for sure. So anyway, it's just not like I think we're about out of time, but anyways,
thanks everybody for listening and we'll catch you in the next one. Until the next time.
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