March 23, 2025 • 54 mins
The demonic possession case that inspired 'The Exorcism of Emily Rose.' In 1976, Anneliese Michel died after 67 exorcisms and a battle with six demons, including Hitler and Lucifer. With bone-chilling authentic exorcism audio recordings, we uncover the story behind one of history's most documented possession cases.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
In 1952, a German couple
welcomed their beautiful baby girlinto the world,
dreaming of the wonderful lifethat lay ahead of her.
Twenty-four years later,that same girl would be dead,
her body ravaged by demons,
her soul offered up to save others.
Welcome to The InBetween.
I'm Carol Ann, and todaywe're diving into one of the most well
(00:24):
documented cases of demonic possessionin modern history.
The haunting story of Anneliese Michel.
Most parents on the face of the earthhave the same dream.
That their kids will grow upto be happy and healthy,
and go onto live a better life than they did.
(00:46):
That's why some parents worked themselvesto death
trying to make the children'slives a little bit better.
Anna and Josef Michel were no different.
Germany in the 1950swas almost half Catholic,
including the families of Anna and Josef.
Anna and Josef both came from devoutfamilies,
including Josef'sthree aunts who were nuns.
(01:10):
His mom wanted him to become a priest,but his Latin was atrocious.
Kind of a problem for a priest at the timewhen masses were spoken in Latin.
So she eventually settled for him,getting married
and taking over his new wife's familysawmill business
in Klingenberg, a small villagejust a few miles southeast of Frankfurt.
(01:32):
Life starts hard for Annawhen she has a little fling
with an employee at the sawmilland gets pregnant out of wedlock
with herfirst daughter, Martha, born in 1948.
That relationship doesn't work out,but another man, Josef, loves her
and marries her in 1950,despite the stigma Anna carries with her,
(01:55):
symbolized for all to see by being madeto wear a black veil on her wedding day.
But life goes on.
Must be a pretty good one.
They welcome their first daughtertogether, Anneliese, on September 21st,
1952, and after her comes three more girls
Gertraude Maria, Barbara and Roswitha.
(02:17):
Not everything is a bed of roses.
Anna’s first daughter, Martha,dies of kidney failure at age eight.
The youngest three girls are all great,but Anneliese has a harder time.
By the time she's five, she's already gone
through mumps, measles and scarlet fever.
All the sick time meant thatshe had to be held back a year in school.
(02:39):
But by the time her first communionrolls around, usually around age 7 or 8,
she's a little frail looking,but catching up to friends nicely.
Anneliese turns out to be a great student
who loves music and decidesshe wants to become a teacher.
The Michel family thrives togetheras they attend mass at least once,
(03:02):
if not twice a week, and oftenpray the Rosary together.
They even honored the 13th dayof every month
in remembrance of Our Lady of Fatima.
If you're curious about Our Lady of Fatimaand the third Secret,
there is a link in the descriptionto our episode specifically
about that event,including the Miracle of the Sun.
(03:26):
But anyway, you get the idea.
A very devout family.
But everyone seems to be doing well.
That is until right around Anneliese's16th birthday.
She's hanging out with her friendMarieluise
when she suddenly loses consciousness.
Now, whether that really meansshe just fainted or not,
(03:47):
I don't know, but either way,she blinks out for a second.
She recovers right away.
So after a nervous laugh from both girls,they forget about it.
Anneliesejust thinks I just need some Schleip.
But later that nightshe wakes up and can't move.
It feels like some outside force ispushing her down, pressing on her stomach.
(04:11):
Now, whether from the pressure
or the lack of muscle controlor just plain fear, I don't know.
But she feels herself wet the bed.
She has a hard time breathingand she can't move her tongue.
She can't even make any noise
to wake up her sisterwho's Schleiping right next to her.
In the morning,she's way too tired to go to school
(04:34):
and she tells her mom what happened,but they just think she needs to relax.
And that seems to be just the ticketuntil almost a year later
on August 24th, 1969,when the same thing happens.
She blacks out during the day and thenwakes up unable to move during the night.
(04:55):
This time, her mom takes her to the doctorthe same day.
Now this is the startof a pretty hefty timeline, but
I will do my best to move through quickly,but coherently.
the go see the family doctor, Doctor Vogt,who immediately
sends them to the neurologist DoctorLuthy in nearby Aschaffenburg.
(05:15):
Doctor Luthy runs a bunch of testsbut doesn't find anything wrong,
either neurologically or psychologically.
But to be sure, he schedules Anneliesefor an electroencephalogram or EEG,
three days later.
An EEG is just a test to check outthe electrical activity in your brain,
(05:36):
make sure that all the wavesare waving the way that they should.
The EEG comes back normal, but Doctor
Luthy sayshis opinion is that she's epileptic.
But because the seizuresshe's having are far apart,
he doesn't prescribe any drugs.
He just sends her home.
After that,Anneliese is plagued by a sore throat
(05:58):
long enoughthat she has her tonsils removed.
And then she gets pleurisy,which is inflammation
of the membrane that separates your lungsfrom your rib cage.
And she gets pneumonia.
By this time,it's like the following February.
She's been stuck in bed, not goingto school, but not getting any better.
(06:19):
So. Anneliese's parentssend her to a hospital in Aschaffenburg,
that by the end of February,sends her to another hospital
in Mittelburgthat specializes in lung issues.
When she gets there,she gets the news that she also has
heart and circulatory problems.
Nice.
(06:40):
While she's there, she stays devoutand tries to stay positive.
But that's not easy.
She still wants to become a teacher,which is hard
when you're stuck in the hospital.
But she also has kind of an epiphany.
She decides that whatever is going onwith her is God's will,
and that if that prevents herfrom becoming a teacher,
(07:00):
then she will instead become a catechist,someone who teaches the principles
of Christianityor in her case, Catholicism.
But she's still going to do her bestto become a teacher.
On June 3rd, while Annelieseis still in hospital in Mittelburg,
she has another episode - same stiff
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limbs, can't breathe, wets the bed.
So two weeks later, June 16th,she goes to Kempten
to see another neurologist, Doctor Haller.
Another EEG, same result.
Normal.
But Doctor Haller gives her a prescriptionfor an anticonvulsant.
Six weeks later,another EEG that again comes out normal.
(07:45):
And on August 29th, 1970,she finally gets to go home.
That is six months that she's been awayfrom home in a hospital.
Everybody.
Everybody's happyshe's finally back at home.
But, Anneliese's little sister, Roswitha,
can tell something's not right.
What Anneliese hasn't told anyone yet,is that while she was in the hospital,
(08:10):
she started to see faces.
She can never quite describe these facesexcept to call them
Fratzen, Germanfor hideous or grotesque faces.
And she starts to smell thesetotally repulsive
odors, like burning feces.
But apparently she'sthe only one who can smell them.
(08:31):
But she has to keep moving forward, right?
She has to start school again.
With all of her illnesses,she's lost two years of school
when she goes back to beginthe 11th grade.
So naturally, she's pretty shy and quiet
and seemingly only interested in religion.
Her feelings of isolationand still not being 100%
(08:54):
well start reflecting in her grades.
Per Mittleburg hospital instructions,
Anna takes Annelieseto a lung specialist, Doctor Reichelt.
Doctor Reichelt says your lungs are fine,
but you still have a circulation problem.
I'm sending you to Doctor Packhauser.
and her mother are like, no more doctors.
(09:18):
So DoctorPackhauser writes to Doctor Vogt,
remember the family doctor, and says,I think she needs a neurologist.
Doctor Vogt says nah, and instead
he also prescribes an anticonvulsant.
However, there's no real evidencethat she took those drugs for long,
as she was still suffering from timeswhen she would just
(09:40):
kind of check outand your body would get stiff.
But she struggles on with her lifefor another year, until June of 1972,
when she has anotherone of the larger attacks.
The following Septemberis another normal EEG, but her neurologist
put Anneliese on Zentropil or Dilantin,which is another anticonvulsant.
(10:05):
But by October,the instances of mental checkouts
and body stiffnessactually start to increase.
Anneliese has checkups on January 18th,March 27th
and June 4th and June 6th to monitorfor side effects.
EEG is again normal,with no more large seizure like episodes,
(10:27):
except she still sees those
demonic faces, the Fratzen, smellsthe horrible smells, and now hears voices
telling her she's damned to hell.
On top of all of that, Anneliese
starts hearingknocking noises in her room at night.
Her parents think she's imagining it,but this time
(10:49):
her sisters can hear it too.
Another trip to Doctor Vogt confirmsthat Anneliese's ears are fine.
Her dad,Josef, just tells the family to calm down.
This is all a part of the epilepsy.
He thinks this is totally a medical issue,
and I think Anna believed that too.
(11:11):
Except she couldn'tget a particular memory out of her head.
The memory of seeing Anneliesestanding in front of the family
statue of the Blessed VirginMary with a mask of hate
and contempt on her face and eyes
that are totally jet black.
Oh, and she comes downwith the German measles.
(11:34):
So that means a trip to the new familydoctor, Doctor Kehler.
Amazingly enough, between doctor visits,the measles, the missed school,
she still manages to pass all of her testsat the end of the year and graduates.
What nobody knows is that this point,which she hasn't told anyone,
is that the Fratzen faces,the smells, the voices,
(11:57):
the knocking, it'sall taking its toll on her.
She feels like she's trapped in a holewith no way out.
She doesn't care about anything.
Feels disconnected from everything.
She knows thatshe should be feeling something.
But she feels nothing.
Sadly, things only get worse from here.
(12:19):
One of Anneliese'sfavorite places is a pilgrimage site
called San Damiano,which is this little shrine
in northern Italy,not too far from the Shroud of Turin,
Check out our Shroud of Turin videolink in the description.
where the Blessed VirginMary is said to have appeared to a woman
named Rosa Quattrini,affectionately known as Mama Rosa.
(12:42):
Mama Rosa is very ill with peritonitis,
which is when one of your organsis leaking into the rest of your body.
The doctors can't doanything else for her,
so she is sent home to dieunder the care of her aunt Adele.
One afternoon,a stranger in a sky blue scarf
comes to the door to ask for 500 lirato buy three candles for the church
(13:07):
of Santa Maria del Grazi in San
Giovanni Rotondo, where Padre Pio is.
Padre Pio is a Franciscan friar
and priestwho bears the mark of the stigmata,
wounds in his hands and his feetlike the ones of Jesus Christ.
So you can imagine he has lots of visitors
(13:27):
and pilgrims stopping by to see him.
And this guy must be likethe talk of Italy.
I mean, here's Rosain this little town of San Damiano.
And PadrePio is almost 400 miles to the south.
Yet Rosa knows all about himand is praying to him for help.
Aunt Adele tells the stranger,we don't have the money.
(13:50):
We only have like a thousand lirato our name, and we had to borrow that.
And I'm just heretaking care of my niece, Rosa.
The stranger asks to see Rosa and entersthe house.
She asks Rosa,do you have faith in Padre Pio?
Rosa says, yes, I do.
I've been praying to him for his help,but I'm not healed yet.
(14:14):
The stranger says, if you have faithin Padre Pio, he will heal you.
Now get up.
She takes Rosa by the hands.
Rosa feels a jolt of energy, stands up
and can feel she is healed.
The stranger leavesand Aunt Adele goes back
inside to find Rosa doing the dishes.
(14:36):
on October 16th, 1964,
she is visited by the Virgin Mary herself.
In fact, she's visited a number of times
and is given instructions to dig a well.
The well is dug, the water flowsand it is said that many people have
either been healed or have been convertedby either drinking the water
(14:58):
or just being at the little gardenthat surrounds the well.
now Now that was a very stripped downversion of that story.
But if you want more information,
there is a link in the descriptionto a website that talks all about it.
So San Damianois this great place of healing.
And Anneliese's father, Josef,had been there before with their neighbor,
(15:20):
Thea Hein, who seems to organizethese trips for people pretty regularly.
So Josef says, I think we need to go.
So they get on a busand they head to Italy.
Once they get there Anneliesecan't bring herself to go into the shrine.
She goes around the back,but she can't get past the garden.
(15:42):
She says the ground feels like fireunder her feet.
She can't even look at anything remotelyholy.
Thea sees Anneliese is having issuesand brings
the holy water to her, but Anneliesecan't bring herself to drink it.
She says it smells bad.
Her dad buysa necklace with a metal on it.
(16:02):
She puts it on,
but then takes it right back off again,saying that it makes her feel like
she can't breathe.
She sees that Thea has a metalon, too, hanging under her dress.
Anneliese grabs the front of Thea's dressand pulls to get it off.
When they all get on the busto go back home, she pushes Thea,
knocking her down and breaking her rosary.
(16:25):
The whole 300 mile plus trip
home, Anneliese is mocking Thea,swearing at her in this deep,
guttural voice and emitting a stenchthat everyone on the bus can smell.
And amazingly enough, after thattrip, Anneliese and Thea become friends.
(16:48):
Wow. Thea prays for Anneliese,and Anneliese
says she can always feelwhen Thea is praying for her.
life moves on and Anneliesegets ready to go to college.
She goes to see Doctor Luthy,the neurologist again.
On September 3rd, 1973, she tells DoctorLuthy about seeing the faces.
(17:08):
Anneliese’s mom, Anna, would later
say that Doctor Luthy suggeststhey find a priest.
Of course, doctor Luthy says,I never said that, but whatever.
The truth is,they never went back to see Doctor Luthy.
And here is when the Michels startlooking for spiritual help,
(17:29):
because obviouslythe medical help isn't working.
They go to see Father Habiger, who's
associate priest,Father Roth sits in on the meeting
where the Michels tell them,we think our daughter might be possessed.
Father Habiger sees nothingbut a perfectly normal
young woman in front of him.
(17:50):
So he says, take her to a doctor.
Meanwhile, Thea decides to cut right
to the chase and contacts one Father
Rodewyk, who seems to be the area experton demonic possession.
With several books on the topicunder his belt, Father Rodewyk says, well,
yeah, she might be possessed,but I am way too old for this.
(18:14):
I suggest you go see Father Hermann.
Father Hermann would meet with Annelieseabout ten times
between the fall of 1973and the summer of 1975.
He also finds her to be a nice young lady,
and he, too, says, go see a doctor.
Her parents tell Father Hermanabout her aversion
(18:35):
to holy objects and the frequent trances.
But Father Herman prays the rosarywith Anneliese, and she never freaked out.
Now, remember the first two priests thatthey saw, Father Habiger and Father Roth.
Well, FatherRoth has a friend named Father Ernst Alt.
Father Alt is a pretty interesting dude,
(18:57):
since not only is he a priest,but he's also kind of a medium.
Father Roth tells Father Alt aboutAnneliese and Father Alt agrees to help.
He and Anneliesehave a very lovely meeting where Father
Alt finds her charming, intelligent,and emotionally mature.
Then the irises of her eyes go black.
(19:20):
Not the whole thing,but no color whatsoever.
Anneliese tells Father Altsomething is attacking me right now.
He gives her a blessingand everything goes back to normal.
Anneliese then heads offto college in Wurzburg, not too far away.
She's pretty homesick,but she knows a few people there
(19:42):
and Father Alt manages to visit herevery couple of weeks.
She tells him she's taking her medication,
but she still sees the Fratzen demonfaces.
In November, Anneliese meets Peter.
Love at first sight.
And even her friends sayshe was acting like a smitten kitten.
(20:03):
But after just two weeks,she tells Peter, I can't see you anymore.
You are biting off waymore than you can chew here.
You have no idea what my life is like.
Peter, God bless this man,
says, you're going to have todo better than that to get rid of me.
But there's gotta be a doctorwho can help.
(20:24):
So Anneliese goes to see Doctor Lenner.
Doctor Lenner thinks she has epilepsy,
frosted in a thick, neurotic resentmenttoward her strict parents.
So he refers her to Doctor Schleip,
the academic director of the universityneurological clinic.
Doctor Schleip gives her another EEG,which shows
(20:47):
some irregular brainwave patternsin the left temporal area of her brain.
Since the Dilantin she's been takingdoesn't
seem to really be doing the job,he switches her to Tegretol.
And life continues.
Peter stands by her side to all of her
unpredictable mood swingsand bouts of depression.
(21:09):
By the spring of 1974,Anneliese is getting headaches,
maybe from the Tegretol.
So she goes back to DoctorLenner and Doctor Schleip.
Her EEG looks better,but they keep her on the Tegretol.
FatherAlt becomes Anneliese's spiritual director
and she visits him anytimethings get too much for her to bear.
(21:32):
And he still doesn't know what to think.
He's working hard to try to come upwith a natural explanation, but can't.
By the fall of 1974, things are gettingprogressively worse for Anneliese.
She feels likeGod has totally abandoned her.
So Father Alt reaches out to Bishop Stangl
(21:53):
for permission to perform an exorcism.
A priest can't just have at itand do their own exorcism.
They have to have permissionfrom a bishop.
The bishop says,nope, just keep doing what you're doing.
At school, Anneliese divesharder into her religion and befriends
a group of people who, like her,do not appreciate the modernization
(22:16):
that the Catholic Church is going throughas a result of Vatican II.
They pray the Rosaryevery night, have holy pictures
on their walls,and a holy water font at the door.
January of 1975 is another appointmentwith Doctor Schleip and another EEG.
Nothing has changedso keep taking the Tegretol.
(22:37):
Spring of 1975,on the suggestion of Father Alt,
Anneliese goes for a checkupwith the family doctor, Doctor Kehler.
Everything looks great,but he sends her back to Doctor Schleip.
In June,another EEG that looks a little better,
but he says, keep taking the Tegretol,
(22:58):
but we should be ableto have you off of it in about six months.
Great.
But things at college are going downhillpretty fast.
Her friends say that Anneliese, duringa normal conversation, would tell them
to stop praying - it's hurting herwhen no one was praying out loud.
Not only is she not eating well,but she took the pictures
(23:20):
of Jesus off the walland she stopped going to mass.
Her friend Anna Lippert recalls an episodewhen she, Anneliese, and Peter
are just hanging outwhen mid-sentence Anneliese's face
contorts into her own Fratzen faceand her whole body goes
stiff, takes like a half an hourbefore she relaxes.
(23:42):
Peter just tells Anna,nothing to worry about.
She's just possessed.
To which Anna pretty much says,I can see that.
At the end of June,she goes to visit Father
Alt with Peter and her sister, Roswitha.
And she tells him, I'mgetting totally out of control.
(24:03):
She says she wants Peterand her sisters around,
but then would just startthrowing things at them.
But she's still taking her meds.
They meet againthe following week, with Anna
having tears streaming down her face.
They start to pray the rosary together,but Anneliese can't even finish.
(24:23):
Father Alt starts to recitesome sort of exorcism prayer in his head,
and Anneliese loses her
mind and rips the rosary to pieces.
Peter comes to pick her up,and she tells him in a deep, guttural
tone, to leave.
Now Father Alt knows she is possessed.
(24:44):
He calls her parents and suggestsit's time
for them to come and take her home.
Anna and Josef take Annelieseto see Doctor Schleip again,
but other than I think she's got epilepsy,there's not much help.
Back at home, things are better and worse.
She's starting to eat a little more,but now her legs are completely stiff.
(25:08):
She has to kind of drag herselfaround using tables and chairs to lean on.
She can't sleep. She can't pray.
And now that she's back homein Klingenberg, Father Alt is a lot
further awayand not able to see her as often.
Thea Hein suggeststhey get Father Roth to pay visit.
FatherRoth talks to Josef and gets it all set up
(25:30):
without eitherone of them talking to Anneliese.
But she then tells her dad, Roth that dog.
He is also going to come.
How did she know that?
So Father Roth comes overand is immediately hit
with the awfulburning poo smell in the living room.
Josef tells him, yup,Anneliese was just in here.
(25:52):
As Father Roth is in the kitchen,Anneliese comes running up at him
like she's going to attack him,
and stops about three feet away,standing there, just stiff.
And then she does it again, but this timestarts screaming at him to get out.
She tears up a rosaryand throws the pieces on the floor.
(26:13):
Anna and Josef both tell FatherRoth about her crazy,
out of control behavior,and ask him to bless her.
As Father Roth takes a crucifixout of his pocket, Anneliese goes nuts
and tries to throw a five literbottle of San Damiano water at him.
(26:33):
Thankfully,it only fell on the floor next to her.
So now Anneliese is stuck at homebecause her board legs
don't workand she's having trouble speaking.
Anna talks to Peter and says,can you take her for a drive or something?
Just get her out of the house for a while.
So he takes her out for a driveand they stop for a walk.
(26:55):
It's slow going, but Peter is patient.
Anneliese suddenly drops to her knees
in a trancelike state for like ten minutes.
When she gets back up, she can walk again.
They drive back to her house full of joy
and excitement to tell her parents.
They ask her what happened,
(27:17):
and Anneliese tells themshe had a visit from Mother Mary.
Two months later,she has another visit from Mary,
but this time Mary has a messageand a question for her.
“It is a great suffering for my heartthat so many souls are lost.
It is necessary to do penance for priests,
(27:38):
for the youth and for your country.
Would you like to do penancefor these souls so that not
so many are lost?” She tells Anneliese
that she has three days to decide.
Anneliese tells her parents,who are like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Let's slow this roll.
We have no idea what that means.
Maybe this isn't a good idea.
(28:01):
To which, after three daysof standing and kneeling in front
of a crucifix, Anneliese responds,I can, Mom.
If I don't, souls may be lost.
Everything is good for a couple of weeks,but Anneliese tells Peter
things are about to get rough.
Peter takes her back to college,in Wurzburg to start her fall semester.
(28:24):
But as soon as they get thereand get to her room,
Anneliese stands in front of the crucifixon the wall, goes into a trance, goes
completely stiff, gets a distorted frozen
look on her face and startsgrowling at the crucifix.
Peter says, okay,maybe this isn't a good idea,
(28:45):
turns them both aroundand takes her right back home.
Meanwhile, FatherRoth and Father Alt get together to chat,
and Father Roth tells Father Altwhat happened when he went to visit.
They both agree she has to be possessed.
Now, in the Catholic Church,there are certain criteria
(29:06):
that have to be met in order to considerthe idea that someone is possessed.
Things like knowing thingsthey shouldn't know, aversion
to sacred objectsand speaking in unknown languages.
Both priests agree. Yup.
We’re there.
Bishop Stangl says, okay,you have my permission
to start with these small exorcismprayers.
(29:30):
Small exorcisms or minor exorcisms
are not meant to confrontthe suspected demon,
but to spiritually fortifyor protect the person possessed.
So they did that.
Not a whole lot happenedother than Anneliese's
whimpering,saying that she feels like she's burning,
and her trying to knock the prayerbook out of father's hand.
(29:52):
However, there is a whole lothappening at Anneliese's house.
She is on a 22 hour a day rant.
She runs screaming through the house.
She falls to herknees, gets up and falls again.
So many times that she gets sores on
(30:12):
her knees and damagesthe ligaments around her knees.
Sometimesher whole body go stiff for days.
Sometimes it's just her neckthat goes stiff and she can't eat.
On those occasions,she would drop to the floor
and eat spiders and flies.
She urinates on the kitchen floor.
(30:33):
She tries to kick, punch or bite everyone.
She tearsHoly pictures off the walls, destroys
rosaries, destroys crucifixes.
Peter's shirts are all torn with missingsleeves from her attacks.
Her teeth are chipped from biting holesin the walls.
(30:54):
At one point,
she's under the kitchen table, barkinglike a dog, refusing to come out.
No one can get her to move.
Josef has a light bulb moment and callsThea Heins.
Thea comes over and tells her three timesin the name of the Blessed
Trinity, come out and sit down, which
after the third time she does.
(31:16):
It's around the same timethat Anna notices
the open wounds on her daughter'shands and feet.
Anneliese is markedwith the stigmata wounds of Christ.
Peter, Josef, Anna, and
Roswitha now have to take two hour shiftsaround the clock
(31:36):
to guard Anneliese from hurting herselfor anyone else.
They try to get ahold of Father Alt,but he's on vacation.
So instead they go straight to FatherRodewyk, the exorcism expert.
He says, all right, I think it's time
that I take a look atwhat is going on here myself.
(31:57):
When he gets there,Anneliese is in one of her trances
and he asks her, what is your name?
To which she replies in a gruff,deep tone, Judas.
And as he's leaving, she slaps him.
His diagnosis? Yup.
She's possessed.
It is decided that Father Altand another priest named Father
(32:18):
Renz would be the ones to performthe actual rite of exorcism.
They send a letter to Bishop Stangl again,
and this time they includewith their letter Father Rodewyk’s
formal opinionthat this is indeed a case of possession.
The bishop finally says fine, go for it.
(32:40):
The first session of what would becomea series of 67
sessionsbegan in her very own home at 4 p.m.
on September 24th, 1975,
three daysafter Anneliese's 23rd birthday.
And that is important to note.
Anneliese is a fully grown womanat this point, legally able
(33:02):
to make her own decisions,and she'd already made everyone around her
swearthat they would not call any more doctors.
She was done with doctors, nothing thatthey had done so far had helped,
and if they were called,it was very likely
they would commit her to a psych wardwhere she would have no one around her
(33:22):
to help herfend off the spiritual attacks.
Throughout the course of these67 sessions,
it is revealed that Anneliese is possessedby at least six demons.
At least that's how many actuallyfessed up to being there.
Those six demons are Lucifer,Judas, Hitler,
(33:43):
Cain, and Nero, a
notorious persecutor of Christiansin the first century
and a guy by the name of Fleischmann.
Don't be surprised that you have no ideawho Fleischmann is.
Neither did anybody else,except Father Alt.
Turns out that the parish he serves overin Ettleben, just on the other side
(34:06):
of Wurzburg from Klingenberg,needed some repairs when he got there.
While going through the church recordsto figure out who he needed to talk to
to get this stuff done,he goes down a rabbit hole in the church
archives that go all the wayback to the church's founding in 1288.
(34:26):
Fascinated by all of thishistory of his church,
he started reading about some of the priorpriests who had served there.
As he's gliding through records,
his eye catches onthis priest named Valentine Fleischmann,
who served the Ettlebenparish from 1572 to 1575.
(34:48):
This guy is a total piece of work.
He is a total womanizing drunk
who had children out of wedlock(a daughter named
Martha) is rumored to have killed somebodyin the church rectory,
as well as beating a womanto within an inch of her life.
(35:08):
In 1575, he is defrockedand excommunicated from the church.
Of course, Father Alt never told anybodyin Anneliese's circle about any of this.
Why would he?
This was just an interesting afternoonat the archives.
One thing had nothing to dowith the other.
So the addition of Pastor Fleischmann
in the Gang of Six is very interesting.
(35:32):
Probably more of a message to FatherAlt than anything else.
After the sessions started, Thea
Hein had the brilliant idea of taperecording the sessions.
FatherRenz thinks this is an awesome idea.
They already missed the firstfew sessions, but this will be way better
(35:53):
than him trying to rememberwhat happened to take notes later.
There are now at least 40 session tapesand listening to these things
will make these strongest backbonesstart to wilt.
So I'm going to play just a little bitof one of these sessions.
They're in German,but the subtitles will be on the screen.
(36:15):
And just to let you know,from the transcripts of these sessions
that I read, a lot of thesesessions are long and rambling
and don'treally make a whole lot of sense,
but I just want to play a snippet or two,
so you can hear the voice of the demons.
(37:49):
Does that not make your hair stand on end?
And then there'sthis one of just her screaming,
hearing this for the first timeliterally gave me
chills.
Society.
(38:14):
But this,
I'm. Guys.
That is terrifying.
I don't know why you would,but if you would like to hear more,
there are videos out therethat are about an hour and a half
long for your listening pleasure.
Father Renz usually read from his prayerbook in Latin,
(38:36):
but we already knowthat Anneliese was a whiz at Latin.
However, he would also pose questionsto her in Dutch and Chinese,
which she would answercorrectly in German.
So this is how life goes on
in the Michel household from Septemberto the following spring of 1976,
(38:58):
with Anneliese's conditiongetting worse as time ticks by
and the demon's refusing to leave.
At one point, they saythey're going to leave in October.
Of course, October comes and goeswith no relief.
Apparently, demons lie.
Although
after a while, when commanded to leave,
(39:20):
they start saying they can't, thatGod won't let them.
Anneliese eatswhen the demons will let her.
But those days are fewerand farther between as time goes on.
One interesting note is that Lucifermay have actually given us a clue
as to why this is happeningto Anneliese in the first place.
(39:42):
Lucifer says, says the other one of that,the village
where the curse tookplace, was an envious woman.
That woman from your mother's village.
Hearing that,Anna thinks she knows what happened.
We know that Anna had a child, Martha,out of wedlock in 1948.
(40:03):
Martha's father was a guy who workedat Anna's father's sawmill.
When Anna and Martha'sfather parted ways, Anna married
Josef, and Martha'sfather married another woman.
The speculation is that the other womanwas envious of Anna
and Josef, who were doing quitewell for themselves financially,
(40:25):
when she and her husbandwere really struggling.
And she cursed Anneliesebefore she was even born.
Peter says Anna and Joseftried to track down the woman
after the fact, but no luck.
Now Anneliese is going back and forthbetween home and college,
trying to finish up her triplemajor of music, education and theology
(40:50):
By the time the school year is over,she is so weak, and suffering
so many attacks, that she has to dictateher senior thesis paper
to Peter and her sisters to get it done.
But amazingly enough, she gets it done.
By now,Anna has layered Anneliese's bedroom floor
with as many pillows and quilts.
(41:12):
And she can get.
Some invisible forceseems to throw Anneliese to the ground
over and over again, everyday,
bruising her head and her face.
And sometimes
when trying to move Anneliese, who'sgetting thinner and thinner by the day,
she feels like she weighs 1,000 pounds
(41:33):
and it takes several men to lift her.
In April, Anneliese tells Father Alt
that May and June are going to be bad,
but July will bring a resolution.
So all eyes are on July.
If they can just make it to July,this will all be over.
(41:54):
And it better be.
Her bodyjust can't take much more of this.
Her hands and feet are sometimestied to keep her from hurting herself.
Father Alt also has a friend, DoctorRichard Roth, who's
a medical doctorthat he's been talking to about the case.
He played some of the tapes for DoctorRoth, which
(42:16):
apparently moved DoctorRoth to start praying again.
Sometime that spring, Father Alt invited
Doctor Roth to come and witnessone of the exorcism sessions.
With Anneliese’scondition deteriorating, Father Alt
was glad to have a doctor in the house,just in case.
(42:36):
On this particular day,Anneliese is super agitated and Father
Alt suggests to Doctor Roth thatmaybe he could give her something
to calm her down, at which point DoctorRoth put some ampoules of something
and a few syringes in his pocketbefore entering the house.
When they get in the house, DoctorRoth sees the stigmata wounds on
(43:00):
Anneliese'shands and feet and says, My God,
she has the stigmata and pretty much tells
everyone there's nothingany doctor can do for her.
There is no injection against the devil.
And despite the fact that
her knees are still broken and battered,
(43:21):
she is still falling to her kneesapproximately
600 times a day.
However, in the midst of all of thischaos,
during the timesAnneliese was lucid and free,
she never wavered in her faithor her decision to suffer
for the souls of others.
(43:44):
On June 27th, Anneliese is running a fever
of about 104, and FatherAlt says, call a doctor.
But Anneliese says no.
She doesn't eat or drink anythingthe next day, despite falling to her knees
and standing up and falling to her kneesagain countless times throughout the day.
(44:04):
Her last exorcism session is on June
30th, 1976 with her mom and dad,
Peter,Roswitha and Barbara there with her.
And again, she has a temp of 104.
She asks Father Renz for absolution,which he immediately gives to her.
After FatherRenz and Peter leave that evening,
(44:27):
and Anneliese is in bedat just past midnight,
she asks her mother to stay withher, saying, “Mama, please stay with me.
I'm afraid.” Josef checks on his daughterat 7 a.m.
before he leaves for work,and it looks like she's sleeping
peacefully for the first time in forever.
(44:47):
But by 8 a.m., Anna calls him at workto tell them that Anneliese has died.
When Anneliese kept telling everyonethat on July 1st she would be free,
this was not the outcomeanyone had imagined, including Anneliese.
She and Peter were talkingabout getting married in the fall.
(45:10):
Anna calls Father Alt, who calls Doctor
Roth and says, please go over to the houseand make sure
that she's not just in a deep tranceor something.
FatherRoth goes over to the house and confirms
that Anneliese is indeed dead.
Unfortunately,he didn't bring any of the necessary
(45:31):
paperworkfor a death certificate with him.
If he had, he would have issueda death certificate right then and there,
and no one would have ever knownabout this case.
But he didn't.
So they had to call the familydoctor, Doctor Kehler, to come over.
He takes one look at Anneliese.
(45:52):
Is bruised and battered body and says,there is no way
I am attesting to this being deathby natural causes.
She needs an autopsy.
The autopsy finds that Anneliesehas died of starvation and dehydration,
and that if medical interventionshad been allowed
(46:13):
as late as just one week before her death,she might not have died.
When word gets out that she's diedand that she weighs
only 68 pounds, there is an uproar.
Father's Alt and Renz,as well as Josef and Anna,
are brought up on chargesof negligent homicide.
(46:35):
few months later, word gets to the familythat a Carmelite nun
says she's received messagesabout Anneliese
and that the family should have herexhumed to see if her body is corrupted.
If it's not,she would most likely be on the way
to beatification, which is likethe first step toward sainthood.
(46:57):
The body is exhumedand taken to a mortuary to be opened.
The police say, nope, she looks just likea body would after being dead this long.
Funny though,after being told they would be allowed
to see their daughter,Anna and Josef as well as Father
Renz are all denied accessto see Anneliese's body.
(47:20):
interesting.
Their trial starts at the end of March1977, with the question
being...Could Anneliese have been savedif she had gotten medical attention?
The defense's argument is, of course,
you can't inject against the devil.
And the fact that Anneliesehad a constitutional right to practice
(47:43):
her religion the way she saw fitand not seek medical attention.
And that the diagnosis of Anneliese having
epilepsy at all is highly sketchy,
considering only two out of seven
EEGs showed any abnormality,
with the other twobeing only small anomalies.
(48:04):
And the prosecution's theoryis that the epilepsy medicine
stopped the seizures,so her brain found another outlet
and caused this psychosis, which was thenexaggerated by the exorcism sessions.
The defense's own psychiatric experts,who examined both
the fathers, said that they “heldprimitive religious views
(48:28):
and leaned toward magical,mystical ideas.”
The trial is over by the end of April,
and all four defendants are found guiltyand sentenced to six months in jail
and three yearsprobation, with the jail time suspended.
So is this a case of “Thedevil made her do it”?
(48:50):
Or was Anneliese’s own brain the culprit?
Obviously, a lot of her symptomscould be attributed to epilepsy.
The Fratzen faces and the terrible smellscould easily be motor function seizures.
And from what I can tell,neither of the two meds
that she tookwould control those types of seizures.
(49:11):
But what about whateveryone else was smelling?
They weren't all havingmotor function seizures.
And she sawa total of eight different doctors.
So it's not like they weren'ttrying to find a medical solution.
In fact, in the beginningand most of the way through,
everyone around herbelieved this was a medical issue.
(49:34):
They went down the tradition medical path
until there was nowhere left to go.
On the other hand,Anneliese's demons seem to conveniently
reflect the same thingsshe was worried about, namely
modernization of the church after Vatican,two reforms in the early 60s.
And oddly,sometimes even give instructions
(49:58):
on what the faithfulshould do to get to heaven.
It seems like kind ofunlikely conversation for a demon
who's supposed to want your soul,not try to save it.
But on the other hand, again,
the thought here isthat the epilepsy was the root
of the problem, slatheredover in a mighty heaping of psychosis,
(50:21):
that was only reinforcedby the exorcism sessions.
However,some of her doctors had their own ideas
of what was going on in Anneliese's head,but no one sent her to a psychiatrist
for a full psychiatric examination.
So her having a psychotic breakdownis only a guess,
(50:41):
not anyone's professional opinion.
Anneliese’smother, Anna, was interviewed in 2005,
where she made it clearthat she still believed
they did the right thing, stating,
“I know that we did the right thingbecause I saw the sign of Christ
(51:01):
in her hands.
She died to save lost souls,to atone for their sins.”
She is also quoted as saying,
“The worst of the matter is not thatso much has been written about this case,
but that in spite of it all,
no one believes in the devil.”
(51:23):
Doctor M Kemal Irmak,
who wrote a paper called “Schizophreniaor Possession?”,
puts forth the idea that maybe
it's not that all cases of demonicpossession are psychosis in disguise.
Maybe all cases of
psychosis are demonic possession
(51:44):
in disguise.
There are lots of goodieswaiting for you in the description today,
including an English transcriptof at least part of the exorcism sessions,
and a link to our Amazon storewhere you can go buy the book
I used as the main sourcefor this episode.
This one is pretty crazy,
(52:07):
and there are many more layers of detailto dive into.
If you want to know more about howthis whole unbelievable affair went down,
no matter whatside of the fence you're on,
it's tragic all the way around.
I'm sure many of you have guessed by nowthat this is the real life
inspiration for the movie “TheExorcism of Emily Rose”,
(52:30):
which I have seen, I enjoyed immensely,
and yes, it scared the crap out of me.
And for those of youwho are thinking, “Wow, Peter,
this is like the ultimate
in loyal boyfriends, how do I get in touchwith that guy?” I hate to tell you,
he did eventually get marriedand have six children.
(52:53):
For those of youwho want to stay in this intersection
of the religiously paranormal, click righthere.
Please, could you watch some more?
Be careful out there,
and I will see youhere again on the in between.
In 1952, a German couple
welcomed their beautiful baby girlinto the world,
dreaming of the wonderful lifethat lay ahead of her.
Twenty-four years later,that same girl would be dead,
her body ravaged by demons,
her soul offered up to save others.
Welcome to The InBetween.
I'm Carol Ann, and todaywe're diving into one of the most well
(00:24):
documented cases of demonic possessionin modern history.
The haunting story of Anneliese Michel.
Most parents on the face of the earthhave the same dream.
That their kids will grow upto be happy and healthy,
and go onto live a better life than they did.
(00:46):
That's why some parents worked themselvesto death
trying to make the children'slives a little bit better.
Anna and Josef Michel were no different.
Germany in the 1950swas almost half Catholic,
including the families of Anna and Josef.
Anna and Josef both came from devoutfamilies,
including Josef'sthree aunts who were nuns.
(01:10):
His mom wanted him to become a priest,but his Latin was atrocious.
Kind of a problem for a priest at the timewhen masses were spoken in Latin.
So she eventually settled for him,getting married
and taking over his new wife's familysawmill business
in Klingenberg, a small villagejust a few miles southeast of Frankfurt.
(01:32):
Life starts hard for Annawhen she has a little fling
with an employee at the sawmilland gets pregnant out of wedlock
with herfirst daughter, Martha, born in 1948.
That relationship doesn't work out,but another man, Josef, loves her
and marries her in 1950,despite the stigma Anna carries with her,
(01:55):
symbolized for all to see by being madeto wear a black veil on her wedding day.
But life goes on.
Must be a pretty good one.
They welcome their first daughtertogether, Anneliese, on September 21st,
1952, and after her comes three more girls
Gertraude Maria, Barbara and Roswitha.
(02:17):
Not everything is a bed of roses.
Anna’s first daughter, Martha,dies of kidney failure at age eight.
The youngest three girls are all great,but Anneliese has a harder time.
By the time she's five, she's already gone
through mumps, measles and scarlet fever.
All the sick time meant thatshe had to be held back a year in school.
(02:39):
But by the time her first communionrolls around, usually around age 7 or 8,
she's a little frail looking,but catching up to friends nicely.
Anneliese turns out to be a great student
who loves music and decidesshe wants to become a teacher.
The Michel family thrives togetheras they attend mass at least once,
(03:02):
if not twice a week, and oftenpray the Rosary together.
They even honored the 13th dayof every month
in remembrance of Our Lady of Fatima.
If you're curious about Our Lady of Fatimaand the third Secret,
there is a link in the descriptionto our episode specifically
about that event,including the Miracle of the Sun.
(03:26):
But anyway, you get the idea.
A very devout family.
But everyone seems to be doing well.
That is until right around Anneliese's16th birthday.
She's hanging out with her friendMarieluise
when she suddenly loses consciousness.
Now, whether that really meansshe just fainted or not,
(03:47):
I don't know, but either way,she blinks out for a second.
She recovers right away.
So after a nervous laugh from both girls,they forget about it.
Anneliesejust thinks I just need some Schleip.
But later that nightshe wakes up and can't move.
It feels like some outside force ispushing her down, pressing on her stomach.
(04:11):
Now, whether from the pressure
or the lack of muscle controlor just plain fear, I don't know.
But she feels herself wet the bed.
She has a hard time breathingand she can't move her tongue.
She can't even make any noise
to wake up her sisterwho's Schleiping right next to her.
In the morning,she's way too tired to go to school
(04:34):
and she tells her mom what happened,but they just think she needs to relax.
And that seems to be just the ticketuntil almost a year later
on August 24th, 1969,when the same thing happens.
She blacks out during the day and thenwakes up unable to move during the night.
(04:55):
This time, her mom takes her to the doctorthe same day.
Now this is the startof a pretty hefty timeline, but
I will do my best to move through quickly,but coherently.
the go see the family doctor, Doctor Vogt,who immediately
sends them to the neurologist DoctorLuthy in nearby Aschaffenburg.
(05:15):
Doctor Luthy runs a bunch of testsbut doesn't find anything wrong,
either neurologically or psychologically.
But to be sure, he schedules Anneliesefor an electroencephalogram or EEG,
three days later.
An EEG is just a test to check outthe electrical activity in your brain,
(05:36):
make sure that all the wavesare waving the way that they should.
The EEG comes back normal, but Doctor
Luthy sayshis opinion is that she's epileptic.
But because the seizuresshe's having are far apart,
he doesn't prescribe any drugs.
He just sends her home.
After that,Anneliese is plagued by a sore throat
(05:58):
long enoughthat she has her tonsils removed.
And then she gets pleurisy,which is inflammation
of the membrane that separates your lungsfrom your rib cage.
And she gets pneumonia.
By this time,it's like the following February.
She's been stuck in bed, not goingto school, but not getting any better.
(06:19):
So. Anneliese's parentssend her to a hospital in Aschaffenburg,
that by the end of February,sends her to another hospital
in Mittelburgthat specializes in lung issues.
When she gets there,she gets the news that she also has
heart and circulatory problems.
Nice.
(06:40):
While she's there, she stays devoutand tries to stay positive.
But that's not easy.
She still wants to become a teacher,which is hard
when you're stuck in the hospital.
But she also has kind of an epiphany.
She decides that whatever is going onwith her is God's will,
and that if that prevents herfrom becoming a teacher,
(07:00):
then she will instead become a catechist,someone who teaches the principles
of Christianityor in her case, Catholicism.
But she's still going to do her bestto become a teacher.
On June 3rd, while Annelieseis still in hospital in Mittelburg,
she has another episode - same stiff
(07:21):
limbs, can't breathe, wets the bed.
So two weeks later, June 16th,she goes to Kempten
to see another neurologist, Doctor Haller.
Another EEG, same result.
Normal.
But Doctor Haller gives her a prescriptionfor an anticonvulsant.
Six weeks later,another EEG that again comes out normal.
(07:45):
And on August 29th, 1970,she finally gets to go home.
That is six months that she's been awayfrom home in a hospital.
Everybody.
Everybody's happyshe's finally back at home.
But, Anneliese's little sister, Roswitha,
can tell something's not right.
What Anneliese hasn't told anyone yet,is that while she was in the hospital,
(08:10):
she started to see faces.
She can never quite describe these facesexcept to call them
Fratzen, Germanfor hideous or grotesque faces.
And she starts to smell thesetotally repulsive
odors, like burning feces.
But apparently she'sthe only one who can smell them.
(08:31):
But she has to keep moving forward, right?
She has to start school again.
With all of her illnesses,she's lost two years of school
when she goes back to beginthe 11th grade.
So naturally, she's pretty shy and quiet
and seemingly only interested in religion.
Her feelings of isolationand still not being 100%
(08:54):
well start reflecting in her grades.
Per Mittleburg hospital instructions,
Anna takes Annelieseto a lung specialist, Doctor Reichelt.
Doctor Reichelt says your lungs are fine,
but you still have a circulation problem.
I'm sending you to Doctor Packhauser.
and her mother are like, no more doctors.
(09:18):
So DoctorPackhauser writes to Doctor Vogt,
remember the family doctor, and says,I think she needs a neurologist.
Doctor Vogt says nah, and instead
he also prescribes an anticonvulsant.
However, there's no real evidencethat she took those drugs for long,
as she was still suffering from timeswhen she would just
(09:40):
kind of check outand your body would get stiff.
But she struggles on with her lifefor another year, until June of 1972,
when she has anotherone of the larger attacks.
The following Septemberis another normal EEG, but her neurologist
put Anneliese on Zentropil or Dilantin,which is another anticonvulsant.
(10:05):
But by October,the instances of mental checkouts
and body stiffnessactually start to increase.
Anneliese has checkups on January 18th,March 27th
and June 4th and June 6th to monitorfor side effects.
EEG is again normal,with no more large seizure like episodes,
(10:27):
except she still sees those
demonic faces, the Fratzen, smellsthe horrible smells, and now hears voices
telling her she's damned to hell.
On top of all of that, Anneliese
starts hearingknocking noises in her room at night.
Her parents think she's imagining it,but this time
(10:49):
her sisters can hear it too.
Another trip to Doctor Vogt confirmsthat Anneliese's ears are fine.
Her dad,Josef, just tells the family to calm down.
This is all a part of the epilepsy.
He thinks this is totally a medical issue,
and I think Anna believed that too.
(11:11):
Except she couldn'tget a particular memory out of her head.
The memory of seeing Anneliesestanding in front of the family
statue of the Blessed VirginMary with a mask of hate
and contempt on her face and eyes
that are totally jet black.
Oh, and she comes downwith the German measles.
(11:34):
So that means a trip to the new familydoctor, Doctor Kehler.
Amazingly enough, between doctor visits,the measles, the missed school,
she still manages to pass all of her testsat the end of the year and graduates.
What nobody knows is that this point,which she hasn't told anyone,
is that the Fratzen faces,the smells, the voices,
(11:57):
the knocking, it'sall taking its toll on her.
She feels like she's trapped in a holewith no way out.
She doesn't care about anything.
Feels disconnected from everything.
She knows thatshe should be feeling something.
But she feels nothing.
Sadly, things only get worse from here.
(12:19):
One of Anneliese'sfavorite places is a pilgrimage site
called San Damiano,which is this little shrine
in northern Italy,not too far from the Shroud of Turin,
Check out our Shroud of Turin videolink in the description.
where the Blessed VirginMary is said to have appeared to a woman
named Rosa Quattrini,affectionately known as Mama Rosa.
(12:42):
Mama Rosa is very ill with peritonitis,
which is when one of your organsis leaking into the rest of your body.
The doctors can't doanything else for her,
so she is sent home to dieunder the care of her aunt Adele.
One afternoon,a stranger in a sky blue scarf
comes to the door to ask for 500 lirato buy three candles for the church
(13:07):
of Santa Maria del Grazi in San
Giovanni Rotondo, where Padre Pio is.
Padre Pio is a Franciscan friar
and priestwho bears the mark of the stigmata,
wounds in his hands and his feetlike the ones of Jesus Christ.
So you can imagine he has lots of visitors
(13:27):
and pilgrims stopping by to see him.
And this guy must be likethe talk of Italy.
I mean, here's Rosain this little town of San Damiano.
And PadrePio is almost 400 miles to the south.
Yet Rosa knows all about himand is praying to him for help.
Aunt Adele tells the stranger,we don't have the money.
(13:50):
We only have like a thousand lirato our name, and we had to borrow that.
And I'm just heretaking care of my niece, Rosa.
The stranger asks to see Rosa and entersthe house.
She asks Rosa,do you have faith in Padre Pio?
Rosa says, yes, I do.
I've been praying to him for his help,but I'm not healed yet.
(14:14):
The stranger says, if you have faithin Padre Pio, he will heal you.
Now get up.
She takes Rosa by the hands.
Rosa feels a jolt of energy, stands up
and can feel she is healed.
The stranger leavesand Aunt Adele goes back
inside to find Rosa doing the dishes.
(14:36):
on October 16th, 1964,
she is visited by the Virgin Mary herself.
In fact, she's visited a number of times
and is given instructions to dig a well.
The well is dug, the water flowsand it is said that many people have
either been healed or have been convertedby either drinking the water
(14:58):
or just being at the little gardenthat surrounds the well.
now Now that was a very stripped downversion of that story.
But if you want more information,
there is a link in the descriptionto a website that talks all about it.
So San Damianois this great place of healing.
And Anneliese's father, Josef,had been there before with their neighbor,
(15:20):
Thea Hein, who seems to organizethese trips for people pretty regularly.
So Josef says, I think we need to go.
So they get on a busand they head to Italy.
Once they get there Anneliesecan't bring herself to go into the shrine.
She goes around the back,but she can't get past the garden.
(15:42):
She says the ground feels like fireunder her feet.
She can't even look at anything remotelyholy.
Thea sees Anneliese is having issuesand brings
the holy water to her, but Anneliesecan't bring herself to drink it.
She says it smells bad.
Her dad buysa necklace with a metal on it.
(16:02):
She puts it on,
but then takes it right back off again,saying that it makes her feel like
she can't breathe.
She sees that Thea has a metalon, too, hanging under her dress.
Anneliese grabs the front of Thea's dressand pulls to get it off.
When they all get on the busto go back home, she pushes Thea,
knocking her down and breaking her rosary.
(16:25):
The whole 300 mile plus trip
home, Anneliese is mocking Thea,swearing at her in this deep,
guttural voice and emitting a stenchthat everyone on the bus can smell.
And amazingly enough, after thattrip, Anneliese and Thea become friends.
(16:48):
Wow. Thea prays for Anneliese,and Anneliese
says she can always feelwhen Thea is praying for her.
life moves on and Anneliesegets ready to go to college.
She goes to see Doctor Luthy,the neurologist again.
On September 3rd, 1973, she tells DoctorLuthy about seeing the faces.
(17:08):
Anneliese’s mom, Anna, would later
say that Doctor Luthy suggeststhey find a priest.
Of course, doctor Luthy says,I never said that, but whatever.
The truth is,they never went back to see Doctor Luthy.
And here is when the Michels startlooking for spiritual help,
(17:29):
because obviouslythe medical help isn't working.
They go to see Father Habiger, who's
associate priest,Father Roth sits in on the meeting
where the Michels tell them,we think our daughter might be possessed.
Father Habiger sees nothingbut a perfectly normal
young woman in front of him.
(17:50):
So he says, take her to a doctor.
Meanwhile, Thea decides to cut right
to the chase and contacts one Father
Rodewyk, who seems to be the area experton demonic possession.
With several books on the topicunder his belt, Father Rodewyk says, well,
yeah, she might be possessed,but I am way too old for this.
(18:14):
I suggest you go see Father Hermann.
Father Hermann would meet with Annelieseabout ten times
between the fall of 1973and the summer of 1975.
He also finds her to be a nice young lady,
and he, too, says, go see a doctor.
Her parents tell Father Hermanabout her aversion
(18:35):
to holy objects and the frequent trances.
But Father Herman prays the rosarywith Anneliese, and she never freaked out.
Now, remember the first two priests thatthey saw, Father Habiger and Father Roth.
Well, FatherRoth has a friend named Father Ernst Alt.
Father Alt is a pretty interesting dude,
(18:57):
since not only is he a priest,but he's also kind of a medium.
Father Roth tells Father Alt aboutAnneliese and Father Alt agrees to help.
He and Anneliesehave a very lovely meeting where Father
Alt finds her charming, intelligent,and emotionally mature.
Then the irises of her eyes go black.
(19:20):
Not the whole thing,but no color whatsoever.
Anneliese tells Father Altsomething is attacking me right now.
He gives her a blessingand everything goes back to normal.
Anneliese then heads offto college in Wurzburg, not too far away.
She's pretty homesick,but she knows a few people there
(19:42):
and Father Alt manages to visit herevery couple of weeks.
She tells him she's taking her medication,
but she still sees the Fratzen demonfaces.
In November, Anneliese meets Peter.
Love at first sight.
And even her friends sayshe was acting like a smitten kitten.
(20:03):
But after just two weeks,she tells Peter, I can't see you anymore.
You are biting off waymore than you can chew here.
You have no idea what my life is like.
Peter, God bless this man,
says, you're going to have todo better than that to get rid of me.
But there's gotta be a doctorwho can help.
(20:24):
So Anneliese goes to see Doctor Lenner.
Doctor Lenner thinks she has epilepsy,
frosted in a thick, neurotic resentmenttoward her strict parents.
So he refers her to Doctor Schleip,
the academic director of the universityneurological clinic.
Doctor Schleip gives her another EEG,which shows
(20:47):
some irregular brainwave patternsin the left temporal area of her brain.
Since the Dilantin she's been takingdoesn't
seem to really be doing the job,he switches her to Tegretol.
And life continues.
Peter stands by her side to all of her
unpredictable mood swingsand bouts of depression.
(21:09):
By the spring of 1974,Anneliese is getting headaches,
maybe from the Tegretol.
So she goes back to DoctorLenner and Doctor Schleip.
Her EEG looks better,but they keep her on the Tegretol.
FatherAlt becomes Anneliese's spiritual director
and she visits him anytimethings get too much for her to bear.
(21:32):
And he still doesn't know what to think.
He's working hard to try to come upwith a natural explanation, but can't.
By the fall of 1974, things are gettingprogressively worse for Anneliese.
She feels likeGod has totally abandoned her.
So Father Alt reaches out to Bishop Stangl
(21:53):
for permission to perform an exorcism.
A priest can't just have at itand do their own exorcism.
They have to have permissionfrom a bishop.
The bishop says,nope, just keep doing what you're doing.
At school, Anneliese divesharder into her religion and befriends
a group of people who, like her,do not appreciate the modernization
(22:16):
that the Catholic Church is going throughas a result of Vatican II.
They pray the Rosaryevery night, have holy pictures
on their walls,and a holy water font at the door.
January of 1975 is another appointmentwith Doctor Schleip and another EEG.
Nothing has changedso keep taking the Tegretol.
(22:37):
Spring of 1975,on the suggestion of Father Alt,
Anneliese goes for a checkupwith the family doctor, Doctor Kehler.
Everything looks great,but he sends her back to Doctor Schleip.
In June,another EEG that looks a little better,
but he says, keep taking the Tegretol,
(22:58):
but we should be ableto have you off of it in about six months.
Great.
But things at college are going downhillpretty fast.
Her friends say that Anneliese, duringa normal conversation, would tell them
to stop praying - it's hurting herwhen no one was praying out loud.
Not only is she not eating well,but she took the pictures
(23:20):
of Jesus off the walland she stopped going to mass.
Her friend Anna Lippert recalls an episodewhen she, Anneliese, and Peter
are just hanging outwhen mid-sentence Anneliese's face
contorts into her own Fratzen faceand her whole body goes
stiff, takes like a half an hourbefore she relaxes.
(23:42):
Peter just tells Anna,nothing to worry about.
She's just possessed.
To which Anna pretty much says,I can see that.
At the end of June,she goes to visit Father
Alt with Peter and her sister, Roswitha.
And she tells him, I'mgetting totally out of control.
(24:03):
She says she wants Peterand her sisters around,
but then would just startthrowing things at them.
But she's still taking her meds.
They meet againthe following week, with Anna
having tears streaming down her face.
They start to pray the rosary together,but Anneliese can't even finish.
(24:23):
Father Alt starts to recitesome sort of exorcism prayer in his head,
and Anneliese loses her
mind and rips the rosary to pieces.
Peter comes to pick her up,and she tells him in a deep, guttural
tone, to leave.
Now Father Alt knows she is possessed.
(24:44):
He calls her parents and suggestsit's time
for them to come and take her home.
Anna and Josef take Annelieseto see Doctor Schleip again,
but other than I think she's got epilepsy,there's not much help.
Back at home, things are better and worse.
She's starting to eat a little more,but now her legs are completely stiff.
(25:08):
She has to kind of drag herselfaround using tables and chairs to lean on.
She can't sleep. She can't pray.
And now that she's back homein Klingenberg, Father Alt is a lot
further awayand not able to see her as often.
Thea Hein suggeststhey get Father Roth to pay visit.
FatherRoth talks to Josef and gets it all set up
(25:30):
without eitherone of them talking to Anneliese.
But she then tells her dad, Roth that dog.
He is also going to come.
How did she know that?
So Father Roth comes overand is immediately hit
with the awfulburning poo smell in the living room.
Josef tells him, yup,Anneliese was just in here.
(25:52):
As Father Roth is in the kitchen,Anneliese comes running up at him
like she's going to attack him,
and stops about three feet away,standing there, just stiff.
And then she does it again, but this timestarts screaming at him to get out.
She tears up a rosaryand throws the pieces on the floor.
(26:13):
Anna and Josef both tell FatherRoth about her crazy,
out of control behavior,and ask him to bless her.
As Father Roth takes a crucifixout of his pocket, Anneliese goes nuts
and tries to throw a five literbottle of San Damiano water at him.
(26:33):
Thankfully,it only fell on the floor next to her.
So now Anneliese is stuck at homebecause her board legs
don't workand she's having trouble speaking.
Anna talks to Peter and says,can you take her for a drive or something?
Just get her out of the house for a while.
So he takes her out for a driveand they stop for a walk.
(26:55):
It's slow going, but Peter is patient.
Anneliese suddenly drops to her knees
in a trancelike state for like ten minutes.
When she gets back up, she can walk again.
They drive back to her house full of joy
and excitement to tell her parents.
They ask her what happened,
(27:17):
and Anneliese tells themshe had a visit from Mother Mary.
Two months later,she has another visit from Mary,
but this time Mary has a messageand a question for her.
“It is a great suffering for my heartthat so many souls are lost.
It is necessary to do penance for priests,
(27:38):
for the youth and for your country.
Would you like to do penancefor these souls so that not
so many are lost?” She tells Anneliese
that she has three days to decide.
Anneliese tells her parents,who are like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Let's slow this roll.
We have no idea what that means.
Maybe this isn't a good idea.
(28:01):
To which, after three daysof standing and kneeling in front
of a crucifix, Anneliese responds,I can, Mom.
If I don't, souls may be lost.
Everything is good for a couple of weeks,but Anneliese tells Peter
things are about to get rough.
Peter takes her back to college,in Wurzburg to start her fall semester.
(28:24):
But as soon as they get thereand get to her room,
Anneliese stands in front of the crucifixon the wall, goes into a trance, goes
completely stiff, gets a distorted frozen
look on her face and startsgrowling at the crucifix.
Peter says, okay,maybe this isn't a good idea,
(28:45):
turns them both aroundand takes her right back home.
Meanwhile, FatherRoth and Father Alt get together to chat,
and Father Roth tells Father Altwhat happened when he went to visit.
They both agree she has to be possessed.
Now, in the Catholic Church,there are certain criteria
(29:06):
that have to be met in order to considerthe idea that someone is possessed.
Things like knowing thingsthey shouldn't know, aversion
to sacred objectsand speaking in unknown languages.
Both priests agree. Yup.
We’re there.
Bishop Stangl says, okay,you have my permission
to start with these small exorcismprayers.
(29:30):
Small exorcisms or minor exorcisms
are not meant to confrontthe suspected demon,
but to spiritually fortifyor protect the person possessed.
So they did that.
Not a whole lot happenedother than Anneliese's
whimpering,saying that she feels like she's burning,
and her trying to knock the prayerbook out of father's hand.
(29:52):
However, there is a whole lothappening at Anneliese's house.
She is on a 22 hour a day rant.
She runs screaming through the house.
She falls to herknees, gets up and falls again.
So many times that she gets sores on
(30:12):
her knees and damagesthe ligaments around her knees.
Sometimesher whole body go stiff for days.
Sometimes it's just her neckthat goes stiff and she can't eat.
On those occasions,she would drop to the floor
and eat spiders and flies.
She urinates on the kitchen floor.
(30:33):
She tries to kick, punch or bite everyone.
She tearsHoly pictures off the walls, destroys
rosaries, destroys crucifixes.
Peter's shirts are all torn with missingsleeves from her attacks.
Her teeth are chipped from biting holesin the walls.
(30:54):
At one point,
she's under the kitchen table, barkinglike a dog, refusing to come out.
No one can get her to move.
Josef has a light bulb moment and callsThea Heins.
Thea comes over and tells her three timesin the name of the Blessed
Trinity, come out and sit down, which
after the third time she does.
(31:16):
It's around the same timethat Anna notices
the open wounds on her daughter'shands and feet.
Anneliese is markedwith the stigmata wounds of Christ.
Peter, Josef, Anna, and
Roswitha now have to take two hour shiftsaround the clock
(31:36):
to guard Anneliese from hurting herselfor anyone else.
They try to get ahold of Father Alt,but he's on vacation.
So instead they go straight to FatherRodewyk, the exorcism expert.
He says, all right, I think it's time
that I take a look atwhat is going on here myself.
(31:57):
When he gets there,Anneliese is in one of her trances
and he asks her, what is your name?
To which she replies in a gruff,deep tone, Judas.
And as he's leaving, she slaps him.
His diagnosis? Yup.
She's possessed.
It is decided that Father Altand another priest named Father
(32:18):
Renz would be the ones to performthe actual rite of exorcism.
They send a letter to Bishop Stangl again,
and this time they includewith their letter Father Rodewyk’s
formal opinionthat this is indeed a case of possession.
The bishop finally says fine, go for it.
(32:40):
The first session of what would becomea series of 67
sessionsbegan in her very own home at 4 p.m.
on September 24th, 1975,
three daysafter Anneliese's 23rd birthday.
And that is important to note.
Anneliese is a fully grown womanat this point, legally able
(33:02):
to make her own decisions,and she'd already made everyone around her
swearthat they would not call any more doctors.
She was done with doctors, nothing thatthey had done so far had helped,
and if they were called,it was very likely
they would commit her to a psych wardwhere she would have no one around her
(33:22):
to help herfend off the spiritual attacks.
Throughout the course of these67 sessions,
it is revealed that Anneliese is possessedby at least six demons.
At least that's how many actuallyfessed up to being there.
Those six demons are Lucifer,Judas, Hitler,
(33:43):
Cain, and Nero, a
notorious persecutor of Christiansin the first century
and a guy by the name of Fleischmann.
Don't be surprised that you have no ideawho Fleischmann is.
Neither did anybody else,except Father Alt.
Turns out that the parish he serves overin Ettleben, just on the other side
(34:06):
of Wurzburg from Klingenberg,needed some repairs when he got there.
While going through the church recordsto figure out who he needed to talk to
to get this stuff done,he goes down a rabbit hole in the church
archives that go all the wayback to the church's founding in 1288.
(34:26):
Fascinated by all of thishistory of his church,
he started reading about some of the priorpriests who had served there.
As he's gliding through records,
his eye catches onthis priest named Valentine Fleischmann,
who served the Ettlebenparish from 1572 to 1575.
(34:48):
This guy is a total piece of work.
He is a total womanizing drunk
who had children out of wedlock(a daughter named
Martha) is rumored to have killed somebodyin the church rectory,
as well as beating a womanto within an inch of her life.
(35:08):
In 1575, he is defrockedand excommunicated from the church.
Of course, Father Alt never told anybodyin Anneliese's circle about any of this.
Why would he?
This was just an interesting afternoonat the archives.
One thing had nothing to dowith the other.
So the addition of Pastor Fleischmann
in the Gang of Six is very interesting.
(35:32):
Probably more of a message to FatherAlt than anything else.
After the sessions started, Thea
Hein had the brilliant idea of taperecording the sessions.
FatherRenz thinks this is an awesome idea.
They already missed the firstfew sessions, but this will be way better
(35:53):
than him trying to rememberwhat happened to take notes later.
There are now at least 40 session tapesand listening to these things
will make these strongest backbonesstart to wilt.
So I'm going to play just a little bitof one of these sessions.
They're in German,but the subtitles will be on the screen.
(36:15):
And just to let you know,from the transcripts of these sessions
that I read, a lot of thesesessions are long and rambling
and don'treally make a whole lot of sense,
but I just want to play a snippet or two,
so you can hear the voice of the demons.
(37:49):
Does that not make your hair stand on end?
And then there'sthis one of just her screaming,
hearing this for the first timeliterally gave me
chills.
Society.
(38:14):
But this,
I'm. Guys.
That is terrifying.
I don't know why you would,but if you would like to hear more,
there are videos out therethat are about an hour and a half
long for your listening pleasure.
Father Renz usually read from his prayerbook in Latin,
(38:36):
but we already knowthat Anneliese was a whiz at Latin.
However, he would also pose questionsto her in Dutch and Chinese,
which she would answercorrectly in German.
So this is how life goes on
in the Michel household from Septemberto the following spring of 1976,
(38:58):
with Anneliese's conditiongetting worse as time ticks by
and the demon's refusing to leave.
At one point, they saythey're going to leave in October.
Of course, October comes and goeswith no relief.
Apparently, demons lie.
Although
after a while, when commanded to leave,
(39:20):
they start saying they can't, thatGod won't let them.
Anneliese eatswhen the demons will let her.
But those days are fewerand farther between as time goes on.
One interesting note is that Lucifermay have actually given us a clue
as to why this is happeningto Anneliese in the first place.
(39:42):
Lucifer says, says the other one of that,the village
where the curse tookplace, was an envious woman.
That woman from your mother's village.
Hearing that,Anna thinks she knows what happened.
We know that Anna had a child, Martha,out of wedlock in 1948.
(40:03):
Martha's father was a guy who workedat Anna's father's sawmill.
When Anna and Martha'sfather parted ways, Anna married
Josef, and Martha'sfather married another woman.
The speculation is that the other womanwas envious of Anna
and Josef, who were doing quitewell for themselves financially,
(40:25):
when she and her husbandwere really struggling.
And she cursed Anneliesebefore she was even born.
Peter says Anna and Joseftried to track down the woman
after the fact, but no luck.
Now Anneliese is going back and forthbetween home and college,
trying to finish up her triplemajor of music, education and theology
(40:50):
By the time the school year is over,she is so weak, and suffering
so many attacks, that she has to dictateher senior thesis paper
to Peter and her sisters to get it done.
But amazingly enough, she gets it done.
By now,Anna has layered Anneliese's bedroom floor
with as many pillows and quilts.
(41:12):
And she can get.
Some invisible forceseems to throw Anneliese to the ground
over and over again, everyday,
bruising her head and her face.
And sometimes
when trying to move Anneliese, who'sgetting thinner and thinner by the day,
she feels like she weighs 1,000 pounds
(41:33):
and it takes several men to lift her.
In April, Anneliese tells Father Alt
that May and June are going to be bad,
but July will bring a resolution.
So all eyes are on July.
If they can just make it to July,this will all be over.
(41:54):
And it better be.
Her bodyjust can't take much more of this.
Her hands and feet are sometimestied to keep her from hurting herself.
Father Alt also has a friend, DoctorRichard Roth, who's
a medical doctorthat he's been talking to about the case.
He played some of the tapes for DoctorRoth, which
(42:16):
apparently moved DoctorRoth to start praying again.
Sometime that spring, Father Alt invited
Doctor Roth to come and witnessone of the exorcism sessions.
With Anneliese’scondition deteriorating, Father Alt
was glad to have a doctor in the house,just in case.
(42:36):
On this particular day,Anneliese is super agitated and Father
Alt suggests to Doctor Roth thatmaybe he could give her something
to calm her down, at which point DoctorRoth put some ampoules of something
and a few syringes in his pocketbefore entering the house.
When they get in the house, DoctorRoth sees the stigmata wounds on
(43:00):
Anneliese'shands and feet and says, My God,
she has the stigmata and pretty much tells
everyone there's nothingany doctor can do for her.
There is no injection against the devil.
And despite the fact that
her knees are still broken and battered,
(43:21):
she is still falling to her kneesapproximately
600 times a day.
However, in the midst of all of thischaos,
during the timesAnneliese was lucid and free,
she never wavered in her faithor her decision to suffer
for the souls of others.
(43:44):
On June 27th, Anneliese is running a fever
of about 104, and FatherAlt says, call a doctor.
But Anneliese says no.
She doesn't eat or drink anythingthe next day, despite falling to her knees
and standing up and falling to her kneesagain countless times throughout the day.
(44:04):
Her last exorcism session is on June
30th, 1976 with her mom and dad,
Peter,Roswitha and Barbara there with her.
And again, she has a temp of 104.
She asks Father Renz for absolution,which he immediately gives to her.
After FatherRenz and Peter leave that evening,
(44:27):
and Anneliese is in bedat just past midnight,
she asks her mother to stay withher, saying, “Mama, please stay with me.
I'm afraid.” Josef checks on his daughterat 7 a.m.
before he leaves for work,and it looks like she's sleeping
peacefully for the first time in forever.
(44:47):
But by 8 a.m., Anna calls him at workto tell them that Anneliese has died.
When Anneliese kept telling everyonethat on July 1st she would be free,
this was not the outcomeanyone had imagined, including Anneliese.
She and Peter were talkingabout getting married in the fall.
(45:10):
Anna calls Father Alt, who calls Doctor
Roth and says, please go over to the houseand make sure
that she's not just in a deep tranceor something.
FatherRoth goes over to the house and confirms
that Anneliese is indeed dead.
Unfortunately,he didn't bring any of the necessary
(45:31):
paperworkfor a death certificate with him.
If he had, he would have issueda death certificate right then and there,
and no one would have ever knownabout this case.
But he didn't.
So they had to call the familydoctor, Doctor Kehler, to come over.
He takes one look at Anneliese.
(45:52):
Is bruised and battered body and says,there is no way
I am attesting to this being deathby natural causes.
She needs an autopsy.
The autopsy finds that Anneliesehas died of starvation and dehydration,
and that if medical interventionshad been allowed
(46:13):
as late as just one week before her death,she might not have died.
When word gets out that she's diedand that she weighs
only 68 pounds, there is an uproar.
Father's Alt and Renz,as well as Josef and Anna,
are brought up on chargesof negligent homicide.
(46:35):
few months later, word gets to the familythat a Carmelite nun
says she's received messagesabout Anneliese
and that the family should have herexhumed to see if her body is corrupted.
If it's not,she would most likely be on the way
to beatification, which is likethe first step toward sainthood.
(46:57):
The body is exhumedand taken to a mortuary to be opened.
The police say, nope, she looks just likea body would after being dead this long.
Funny though,after being told they would be allowed
to see their daughter,Anna and Josef as well as Father
Renz are all denied accessto see Anneliese's body.
(47:20):
interesting.
Their trial starts at the end of March1977, with the question
being...Could Anneliese have been savedif she had gotten medical attention?
The defense's argument is, of course,
you can't inject against the devil.
And the fact that Anneliesehad a constitutional right to practice
(47:43):
her religion the way she saw fitand not seek medical attention.
And that the diagnosis of Anneliese having
epilepsy at all is highly sketchy,
considering only two out of seven
EEGs showed any abnormality,
with the other twobeing only small anomalies.
(48:04):
And the prosecution's theoryis that the epilepsy medicine
stopped the seizures,so her brain found another outlet
and caused this psychosis, which was thenexaggerated by the exorcism sessions.
The defense's own psychiatric experts,who examined both
the fathers, said that they “heldprimitive religious views
(48:28):
and leaned toward magical,mystical ideas.”
The trial is over by the end of April,
and all four defendants are found guiltyand sentenced to six months in jail
and three yearsprobation, with the jail time suspended.
So is this a case of “Thedevil made her do it”?
(48:50):
Or was Anneliese’s own brain the culprit?
Obviously, a lot of her symptomscould be attributed to epilepsy.
The Fratzen faces and the terrible smellscould easily be motor function seizures.
And from what I can tell,neither of the two meds
that she tookwould control those types of seizures.
(49:11):
But what about whateveryone else was smelling?
They weren't all havingmotor function seizures.
And she sawa total of eight different doctors.
So it's not like they weren'ttrying to find a medical solution.
In fact, in the beginningand most of the way through,
everyone around herbelieved this was a medical issue.
(49:34):
They went down the tradition medical path
until there was nowhere left to go.
On the other hand,Anneliese's demons seem to conveniently
reflect the same thingsshe was worried about, namely
modernization of the church after Vatican,two reforms in the early 60s.
And oddly,sometimes even give instructions
(49:58):
on what the faithfulshould do to get to heaven.
It seems like kind ofunlikely conversation for a demon
who's supposed to want your soul,not try to save it.
But on the other hand, again,
the thought here isthat the epilepsy was the root
of the problem, slatheredover in a mighty heaping of psychosis,
(50:21):
that was only reinforcedby the exorcism sessions.
However,some of her doctors had their own ideas
of what was going on in Anneliese's head,but no one sent her to a psychiatrist
for a full psychiatric examination.
So her having a psychotic breakdownis only a guess,
(50:41):
not anyone's professional opinion.
Anneliese’smother, Anna, was interviewed in 2005,
where she made it clearthat she still believed
they did the right thing, stating,
“I know that we did the right thingbecause I saw the sign of Christ
(51:01):
in her hands.
She died to save lost souls,to atone for their sins.”
She is also quoted as saying,
“The worst of the matter is not thatso much has been written about this case,
but that in spite of it all,
no one believes in the devil.”
(51:23):
Doctor M Kemal Irmak,
who wrote a paper called “Schizophreniaor Possession?”,
puts forth the idea that maybe
it's not that all cases of demonicpossession are psychosis in disguise.
Maybe all cases of
psychosis are demonic possession
(51:44):
in disguise.
There are lots of goodieswaiting for you in the description today,
including an English transcriptof at least part of the exorcism sessions,
and a link to our Amazon storewhere you can go buy the book
I used as the main sourcefor this episode.
This one is pretty crazy,
(52:07):
and there are many more layers of detailto dive into.
If you want to know more about howthis whole unbelievable affair went down,
no matter whatside of the fence you're on,
it's tragic all the way around.
I'm sure many of you have guessed by nowthat this is the real life
inspiration for the movie “TheExorcism of Emily Rose”,
(52:30):
which I have seen, I enjoyed immensely,
and yes, it scared the crap out of me.
And for those of youwho are thinking, “Wow, Peter,
this is like the ultimate
in loyal boyfriends, how do I get in touchwith that guy?” I hate to tell you,
he did eventually get marriedand have six children.
(52:53):
For those of youwho want to stay in this intersection
of the religiously paranormal, click righthere.
Please, could you watch some more?
Be careful out there,
and I will see youhere again on the in between.
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