February 10, 2025 • 21 mins
The JOIN Project team share their hopes and dreams for LGBTIQ+ people and queer spaces that welcome, celebrate and support everyone – bringing the margins to the centre of our communities.
Co-produced by Ahed, Aiden, Casey, Charlie, Mazen, Sophrane, Tulsi, Violet, Wura, Xolisani and Zarith. Facilitation and Podcast Design Support: Siobhán McGuirk and Liv Wynter. Host: Anne Onwusiri. Production and Editing: Sam Whelan-Curtin. Podcast Artwork/Illustrations: BOE (@boestudio.s)
For more information on the JOIN Project and our Toolkit, as well as on the Friends of the Joiners Arms Campaign, please visit www.friendsjoinerarms.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to the JOINpodcast from Friends of the Joiners Arms.
My name is Anne Onwusiri,a member of the campaign,
and we're here to share the voicesand insights of members
of our LGBTIQ+ communitywho are too often sidelined
as we discuss building queer spacesthat are accessible and affirming for all.
We are here to focus on the experiencesof LGBTIQ+ people
(00:26):
who are homeless and those who have movedto the UK from elsewhere.
People who have experiencedBritain's hostile state policies
and environments firsthand.
And who know what it takes to endexclusion.
Throughout the course of this series.
We have heard about the experiencesof queer migration and asylum,
queer homelessness,the importance of health and community,
(00:46):
the barriers and needs for educationand employment, and more.
Now, as we wrap up this series,we want to hear from everyone we've spoken
to about their dreams for queer people,queer spaces, and what they can be.
We'll be hearing from Sophie (she/ her), Wura (they / them), Casey (she
/ her), XO (he / him), Violet (she
(01:07):
/ her), Ahed (she / her), Mazin(he / him), Tulsi (he /
him), Zarith (he / him), Aiden(he / him) and Charlie (he / him).
Sophie, can you kick us off?
Well my future...
my vision for the future for us the LGBTQ
(01:28):
is to be fully part of the community.
We don't want to be outcastsor being outsiders.
I want the future to be inclusive.
Looking at us for our potentialinstead of what we look like.
If they can't have male toilets,
female toilets, this that,why not having us being a part of...
(01:51):
recognize us like people.
This is what we are.
We've done this in the past.
All the fight we have been having.
We want that to be a reality
in the future, not just a wish or a dream.
We want that to take form,to be like, to be the sky.
The sky should be our limit.
(02:12):
Not to be limited in jobs,not to be limited in community.
We want to be part.
We want to be seen, heard
everything.
We want to be accepted.
So basically we are looking
for something differentfrom what we have been having so far.
It won't be just a venue
(02:34):
for the queer peopleto go there having a good time.
It should be a place where you leave therewith a solution about,
you know, a place of education, a place of
whereyou can project yourself in the future.
You know, when I'm going to this venue,I'm leaving there with
a plan for my future,a plan for a solution
(02:57):
to a problem that have been madeby the actual situation and policies.
I want the place to be very educative,
to have all the options,
because it's very sad to say,but when you see a queer person,
they always look at uslike very limited job opportunity.
(03:17):
At least there we can...
we can have a vision.
We can expand our horizon.
Like not all queer people are
sex workers, or working in the nightlife.
We can have like a future.
Like we can dream of something.
That's what I want. This
(03:37):
venue to be like,a place of people to have hope,
to have vision about not to be limited
by the actual
visionpeople have for us or the actual plan.
Yeah.
And Wura, tell us about your visionfor a dream queer space.
So I love queer spaces that do not treat
(03:59):
people like, oh, you bad, you good.
You know that treat people with nuance.
I love queer spaces that take timeto understand different situations
that are complex, especially when it hasto do with, like victimhood and like,
abuse, because it's such a commonalitywithin queer spaces like,
(04:20):
even though it's like, I don't know, it'snot really spoken about.
It's so, so, so common,
especially because of hierarchyand because of all of these things. So,
I think it looks really
sunny and warm,
and I think that it's accessible
and it has wheelchair accessible floors.
(04:41):
And I think the the toilets are whiteand they're clean.
And I think that there's, earplugs
at the door for sensory overstimulation.
And I think that there is,
a lot of like
different people and different abilities,
(05:03):
like different disabilitiesand different abilities.
Lots of black folks,
lots of people of color.
There's some
just knowledgeable people in the room and
yeah, different people just coexistingand being chill and lovely and normal.
(05:24):
Peoplewho don't speak like fluent English, like,
how are they able of like...
capable of being in a lot of queer spaceswhich are predominantly like, you know,
like English speaking,but I guess, like, I'm thinking about,
like, different types of queer spaces.
Like,I would love to see a Latin queer space
(05:44):
that prioritizes, like, I guessSpanish speaking folks and like,
they could go to those spacesand feel like, okay, like, yeah,
beingheard and like, I don't have to, like,
feel like I'm less intelligentor anything like that
because I don't speak English toogood. But,
yeah, I think in terms of, like,like a general venue,
(06:06):
venues don't venues also like could havedifferent groups of people in them.
So like I was just thinking like, yeah,there could be just like different,
different types of eventsand things like that in the venue,
which is something I just remembered.
But yeah, likeeven in in terms of a physical space,
a quiet space is always important.
(06:27):
And like, I think in terms of
also just decompressing from there
being multiple people in the space,
lighting is always so importantbecause like,
like overhead direct lightingcan make people feel really overwhelmed.
I think
just in terms of a
physical aspect, I really like
(06:50):
just calming things and like,
yeah, the world is stressful enough.
Cassie, what about you?
What does this space look like for you?
For my dream spaces,I would like myself as well as my queer
people,to have a space where we could feel...
we all can feel comfortable.
We all can walk on the road,
(07:11):
we all can feel respectwhenever we go out.
We all should have a placethat we must be glad to go there,
rather than being in a hotelwhere you feel
if you go out and you're coming back,you don't want to go there.
That you must feel happythat I'm going back to this safe space,
because this is whatI have been provided with,
(07:33):
whichmust have love, affection, everything.
Not only for myself, for my queer family.
My question was oncewhen I reached here in the
Gatwick Airport,when the immigration officer asked me,
why do I choose to come to the UK?
My response was very simpleand that is what I'm going to say now.
I am looking for a safe place,
(07:57):
not a place to enjoy...
not so where I can drink and enjoy.
It's a place where I can be safe.
When it comes to educational,when it comes to doctor,
when it comes to employment,all these things.
I will not go about elaborate on it.
Yes, but my safe place is a placewhere I can feel safe,
secure and happy.
(08:17):
XO, tell us what would be importantfor the space to have?
What are the ideal resources?
Sexual health clinic
inside the space, a small...
have someone whose going to be ableto talk to people
if they're dealing with other issues.
Someone who's more,
(08:38):
someone who's more knowledge about dealing
with different situationsthat some people deal with.
I think we should be having projects like
educational projects
in the space,
but my main issueis having the sexual health and the...
it's much easier for someone who's queer
(08:58):
to go and get services from someoneor somewhere where they feel safe.
And I think the space should be also free.
If Joiners
should be free for everyone,I think it would be best.
Violet, what are the importantconsiderations for you
for a queer space?
(09:20):
With location,I think it would be somewhere
with multiple modesof transport to get to it
and in
like an accessible area that doesn't
feel unsafe.
With activities.
Personally, for me,I like things that are more exciting,
(09:42):
so I would want like music
and partying and stuff from it,but also other people
would prefer quiet spaces
and sober spaces and different things.
So I think ideally it would have
multiple spaces
(10:04):
for what different people would enjoy
so then everyone feels safeand included there.
And as we've learned across the project,
our LGBTIQ+ communities are very diverse.
What's the best way to bring thatdiversity together do you think?
Honestly, I think just offering
something for everyone so that
(10:26):
everyone has a reason to want to be,that everyone will feel safe there.
Like if people are like drinking,they can drink.
If people are against drinking,there would be sober areas and
everything is just suited, like there'ssomething suited to each person's needs.
Like if someone just likes to be quietand play board games, but
they want to do it with their communitythere should be an area like that
(10:52):
or something to do with sports
for more sporty people who enjoy that
and just keep something for everyone,
then yeah, then everyone will be together.
Ahed, for youthinking about your ideal queer space,
particularly for those goingthrough a hard time navigating the system.
What does the dream space
(11:12):
look like in terms of providing supportand creating that feeling of safety?
So we did talk about how sometimeswe isolate ourselves, and we attend to sex
and drugs and the nightlifejust like to escape our life.
And sometimes it's not the ideal thing.
So I want,
like the good LGBTQ spaceor like safe space
(11:35):
to be a place whereI can actually escape my problem, but
not with wrong items or notwith the wrong stuff.
So I just go there to have a placeand I can,
do the stuffthat I can express myself through it.
Because sometimeswe need to express the voice inside us.
But like, we cannot say it like in termof words or like in terms of writing.
(11:59):
So we need somethinglike music, dance, fashion,
theater, drama,
poetry.
Because some people attemptto express themselves through art
more than actually talking about it.
When you draw somethingor like you sending something or you do
music or theater, you don't say your story
(12:22):
openly, you just say
it like under cover or under like a mask.
So you'll feel less judgingand more freely to express yourself.
So I just want this safe spaceto be more safely
than the actual placesthat we go to, to be accessible
for all the people with different bodyshape, different...
(12:47):
all differences to be honest.
And Mazin,what would you like to reflect on in terms
of this dream queer space?
For queer spaces, okay, first of all,
being queer doesn't necessarily mean
that all queers have the same needs,you know?
Yeah, we are queer. We share that.
We have that in common.
(13:07):
But as an asylum seeker who is queer,
it's my needs are different from someone
who's a citizen of the UK.
So for me, I need
legal help with my case
because that's like you're waiting forthat to start your life.
So you need to prioritize that.
(13:29):
You need peopleto explain the system to you
because it's a new country,new culture, new customs, new everything.
You need that to be explained to you.
You need to know what is a local council.
You know, all of that.
You need to know at least the basics,and then
you need help in terms of guidance,
(13:51):
not necessarily financial help,just guidance.
Tell me what I should do.
I should do thatin order for me to settle in the future.
Because some placesdo recognize these needs.
But it's mainly likegathering, socializing and all of that.
It's good.
It's important, butyou need to set people up for the future.
(14:14):
You know, you need to tell them, you know,
if you if, for example,if you want to get a job
or something in the future,if you did that is going to help you like,
I think the
main problem for someone who'smigrating in general is to settle.
That's the first step.
And then you need a social networkaround you.
(14:36):
You need to find people and all of that.
I think for someone who's alreadya citizen,
their status is already secured.
So it's not in the same boat with
someone who'swho has an insecure immigration status.
So I think the main problem
is to recognizethe different needs for queer people,
(15:00):
whether they're trans gays, lesbians,whatever.
Just recognize it's different.
Tulsi, what is important for youin thinking about this space?
My ideal queer space like,
they need to be very friendlyand they need more facilities
like those who really need studies.
(15:24):
I know the government must help for them
and then give them, like,whatever they need.
Yeah, they can,you know that we can prolong our
LGBTQ space, can be prolong.
Yeah.
So whatever it is,it can be like like a chain.
Like a chainwe go through together, grow together.
(15:46):
Zerith, what dreams do
you have for the space?
I would love a place where,you know, like, the drag
queens are all over and,you know, manning the spaces and,
you know, andand there's so many fun things you can do.
And, you know, I think being with the LGBTpeople, you know, you're always,
you know, laughing about one thingor the other
(16:07):
because we all are very creativeand we all very,
you know,
we've gone through so many thingsto, to overcome, to accept ourselves and,
you know, and, I like a space that they,you know, encourage
not only just LGBT people, but the allies
because we have more allies than wewe actually know.
So I imagine those kind of placesthey could, you know, embrace us.
(16:30):
You know, all of our, our,
our glitters and and shortcomings and,
and you know, and spacethat is is free for all basically.
Aiden andCharlie tell us what is important for you.
Like what the space can offer.
Well, I'm,
(16:50):
I very much would like to see some more,like, trans inclusive
events.
Just. Yeah.
We've proposed, like, having nights
that are like exclusive for peoplewho have a trans identity just because it
definitely, it's not tryingto, like, block out everybody else.
It's more like having a momentto find people
(17:11):
alike and kind of, like,make a community within a community.
Sometimes it's just needed
when you have people around youwho are like, oh, we get it.
Don't worry.
You know, I think that would benice to have, not all the time.
But just like as, like a little eventfrom time to time would be cool.
And I think it would definitely solvesome problems.
Like IDs.
(17:32):
Because that's definitely an issuefor trans people when it comes to walking
into events, you know,having like your birth name on it or like,
like IDs,not being like, up to date and stuff
because you're going throughlike a name change process, you know.
So I think that would definitely helpwith that issue.
I mean, yeah,because I've, I've been turned away before
(17:53):
because I don't look like,the photo on my passport.
Thank God.
Yeah.
I would say like trans aside,just in general,
not to be too vague,just one that isn't boring.
I would say the one thing I can't stand,especially in this community,
is how patronizing it could be.
(18:15):
It's telling you you need help.
It's telling you that you need thisand we're going to give it to you.
You didn't ask for it,but this isn't what this is.
And I think that's what I loveso much about this project and about
this whole communitythat we created within this project.
It's here for you,
it's new, and it's what you want.
(18:38):
So yeah, definitely like
trans stuff.
Gay stuff.
I mean, I think they're workingreally hard as well on accessibility.
That's a huge pointthat they're really driving.
And I just love that.
That's really goodbecause it's so, so much of my...
because I've got so many peoplelike friends
who are like neurodiverse and stufflike that and missed out on so much
(19:00):
just because people aren'twilling to do the bare minimum.
And that's that's the shame then.
And it could be accessibility with likephysical needs or, mental health.
Yeah. Neurodivergence. Like it's
we've...
the points have come up so muchabout accessibility for these things,
which is really good to hear.
So definitely going to have thingsimplemented in the future for anybody
(19:24):
so that everybody feelswelcome to this kind of space.
So that's going to be really niceto say for sure.
Those are beautiful dreams.
Thank you to everyone who has sharedthese visions of the future
and who are already working togetherto make these things happen.
The Friends of the Joiners Armscampaign is working to open its own queer
utopia, where we try to bring inas many of these ideas, insights
(19:47):
and possibilitiesas we can to offer a space
that provides everyone in our community,no matter their life experience,
with a sense of safety, joy,and opportunity.
A place where people are invitedin to dance at parties,
have sober nights, performin cabarets, meet for coffee
play board games, come togetherand plan new futures for our community.
(20:10):
A place that is as accessibleas possible, a place for all.
And we
believe that other queer spaces, venuesand organizations can follow our lead
and be more welcoming and accessible.
Throughout this series,you have heard the voices
of the participantsin the JOIN research project.
They've also createda free, interactive toolkit
(20:31):
on how queer spaces can do better withand for all members of our community,
particularlyfor those who face the greatest barriers.
Learn more about the projectand download the toolkit
at www.friendsjoinersarms.com.
Thank you for joining us on this journey.
Learning from these stories.
(20:52):
And as always, long live queer spaces.
Thank you to the City Bridge Trust,the funding arm of the City of London
Corporation’s charity Bridge House Estatesfor making this podcast possible.
And thanks to Siobhan McGuirkand Liv Wynter for helping us design
the series, to Sam Whelan-Curtinfor production and to the Outside Project
(21:13):
for providing uswith space to come together.
Welcome to the JOINpodcast from Friends of the Joiners Arms.
My name is Anne Onwusiri,a member of the campaign,
and we're here to share the voicesand insights of members
of our LGBTIQ+ communitywho are too often sidelined
as we discuss building queer spacesthat are accessible and affirming for all.
We are here to focus on the experiencesof LGBTIQ+ people
(00:26):
who are homeless and those who have movedto the UK from elsewhere.
People who have experiencedBritain's hostile state policies
and environments firsthand.
And who know what it takes to endexclusion.
Throughout the course of this series.
We have heard about the experiencesof queer migration and asylum,
queer homelessness,the importance of health and community,
(00:46):
the barriers and needs for educationand employment, and more.
Now, as we wrap up this series,we want to hear from everyone we've spoken
to about their dreams for queer people,queer spaces, and what they can be.
We'll be hearing from Sophie (she/ her), Wura (they / them), Casey (she
/ her), XO (he / him), Violet (she
(01:07):
/ her), Ahed (she / her), Mazin(he / him), Tulsi (he /
him), Zarith (he / him), Aiden(he / him) and Charlie (he / him).
Sophie, can you kick us off?
Well my future...
my vision for the future for us the LGBTQ
(01:28):
is to be fully part of the community.
We don't want to be outcastsor being outsiders.
I want the future to be inclusive.
Looking at us for our potentialinstead of what we look like.
If they can't have male toilets,
female toilets, this that,why not having us being a part of...
(01:51):
recognize us like people.
This is what we are.
We've done this in the past.
All the fight we have been having.
We want that to be a reality
in the future, not just a wish or a dream.
We want that to take form,to be like, to be the sky.
The sky should be our limit.
(02:12):
Not to be limited in jobs,not to be limited in community.
We want to be part.
We want to be seen, heard
everything.
We want to be accepted.
So basically we are looking
for something differentfrom what we have been having so far.
It won't be just a venue
(02:34):
for the queer peopleto go there having a good time.
It should be a place where you leave therewith a solution about,
you know, a place of education, a place of
whereyou can project yourself in the future.
You know, when I'm going to this venue,I'm leaving there with
a plan for my future,a plan for a solution
(02:57):
to a problem that have been madeby the actual situation and policies.
I want the place to be very educative,
to have all the options,
because it's very sad to say,but when you see a queer person,
they always look at uslike very limited job opportunity.
(03:17):
At least there we can...
we can have a vision.
We can expand our horizon.
Like not all queer people are
sex workers, or working in the nightlife.
We can have like a future.
Like we can dream of something.
That's what I want. This
(03:37):
venue to be like,a place of people to have hope,
to have vision about not to be limited
by the actual
visionpeople have for us or the actual plan.
Yeah.
And Wura, tell us about your visionfor a dream queer space.
So I love queer spaces that do not treat
(03:59):
people like, oh, you bad, you good.
You know that treat people with nuance.
I love queer spaces that take timeto understand different situations
that are complex, especially when it hasto do with, like victimhood and like,
abuse, because it's such a commonalitywithin queer spaces like,
(04:20):
even though it's like, I don't know, it'snot really spoken about.
It's so, so, so common,
especially because of hierarchyand because of all of these things. So,
I think it looks really
sunny and warm,
and I think that it's accessible
and it has wheelchair accessible floors.
(04:41):
And I think the the toilets are whiteand they're clean.
And I think that there's, earplugs
at the door for sensory overstimulation.
And I think that there is,
a lot of like
different people and different abilities,
(05:03):
like different disabilitiesand different abilities.
Lots of black folks,
lots of people of color.
There's some
just knowledgeable people in the room and
yeah, different people just coexistingand being chill and lovely and normal.
(05:24):
Peoplewho don't speak like fluent English, like,
how are they able of like...
capable of being in a lot of queer spaceswhich are predominantly like, you know,
like English speaking,but I guess, like, I'm thinking about,
like, different types of queer spaces.
Like,I would love to see a Latin queer space
(05:44):
that prioritizes, like, I guessSpanish speaking folks and like,
they could go to those spacesand feel like, okay, like, yeah,
beingheard and like, I don't have to, like,
feel like I'm less intelligentor anything like that
because I don't speak English toogood. But,
yeah, I think in terms of, like,like a general venue,
(06:06):
venues don't venues also like could havedifferent groups of people in them.
So like I was just thinking like, yeah,there could be just like different,
different types of eventsand things like that in the venue,
which is something I just remembered.
But yeah, likeeven in in terms of a physical space,
a quiet space is always important.
(06:27):
And like, I think in terms of
also just decompressing from there
being multiple people in the space,
lighting is always so importantbecause like,
like overhead direct lightingcan make people feel really overwhelmed.
I think
just in terms of a
physical aspect, I really like
(06:50):
just calming things and like,
yeah, the world is stressful enough.
Cassie, what about you?
What does this space look like for you?
For my dream spaces,I would like myself as well as my queer
people,to have a space where we could feel...
we all can feel comfortable.
We all can walk on the road,
(07:11):
we all can feel respectwhenever we go out.
We all should have a placethat we must be glad to go there,
rather than being in a hotelwhere you feel
if you go out and you're coming back,you don't want to go there.
That you must feel happythat I'm going back to this safe space,
because this is whatI have been provided with,
(07:33):
whichmust have love, affection, everything.
Not only for myself, for my queer family.
My question was oncewhen I reached here in the
Gatwick Airport,when the immigration officer asked me,
why do I choose to come to the UK?
My response was very simpleand that is what I'm going to say now.
I am looking for a safe place,
(07:57):
not a place to enjoy...
not so where I can drink and enjoy.
It's a place where I can be safe.
When it comes to educational,when it comes to doctor,
when it comes to employment,all these things.
I will not go about elaborate on it.
Yes, but my safe place is a placewhere I can feel safe,
secure and happy.
(08:17):
XO, tell us what would be importantfor the space to have?
What are the ideal resources?
Sexual health clinic
inside the space, a small...
have someone whose going to be ableto talk to people
if they're dealing with other issues.
Someone who's more,
(08:38):
someone who's more knowledge about dealing
with different situationsthat some people deal with.
I think we should be having projects like
educational projects
in the space,
but my main issueis having the sexual health and the...
it's much easier for someone who's queer
(08:58):
to go and get services from someoneor somewhere where they feel safe.
And I think the space should be also free.
If Joiners
should be free for everyone,I think it would be best.
Violet, what are the importantconsiderations for you
for a queer space?
(09:20):
With location,I think it would be somewhere
with multiple modesof transport to get to it
and in
like an accessible area that doesn't
feel unsafe.
With activities.
Personally, for me,I like things that are more exciting,
(09:42):
so I would want like music
and partying and stuff from it,but also other people
would prefer quiet spaces
and sober spaces and different things.
So I think ideally it would have
multiple spaces
(10:04):
for what different people would enjoy
so then everyone feels safeand included there.
And as we've learned across the project,
our LGBTIQ+ communities are very diverse.
What's the best way to bring thatdiversity together do you think?
Honestly, I think just offering
something for everyone so that
(10:26):
everyone has a reason to want to be,that everyone will feel safe there.
Like if people are like drinking,they can drink.
If people are against drinking,there would be sober areas and
everything is just suited, like there'ssomething suited to each person's needs.
Like if someone just likes to be quietand play board games, but
they want to do it with their communitythere should be an area like that
(10:52):
or something to do with sports
for more sporty people who enjoy that
and just keep something for everyone,
then yeah, then everyone will be together.
Ahed, for youthinking about your ideal queer space,
particularly for those goingthrough a hard time navigating the system.
What does the dream space
(11:12):
look like in terms of providing supportand creating that feeling of safety?
So we did talk about how sometimeswe isolate ourselves, and we attend to sex
and drugs and the nightlifejust like to escape our life.
And sometimes it's not the ideal thing.
So I want,
like the good LGBTQ spaceor like safe space
(11:35):
to be a place whereI can actually escape my problem, but
not with wrong items or notwith the wrong stuff.
So I just go there to have a placeand I can,
do the stuffthat I can express myself through it.
Because sometimeswe need to express the voice inside us.
But like, we cannot say it like in termof words or like in terms of writing.
(11:59):
So we need somethinglike music, dance, fashion,
theater, drama,
poetry.
Because some people attemptto express themselves through art
more than actually talking about it.
When you draw somethingor like you sending something or you do
music or theater, you don't say your story
(12:22):
openly, you just say
it like under cover or under like a mask.
So you'll feel less judgingand more freely to express yourself.
So I just want this safe spaceto be more safely
than the actual placesthat we go to, to be accessible
for all the people with different bodyshape, different...
(12:47):
all differences to be honest.
And Mazin,what would you like to reflect on in terms
of this dream queer space?
For queer spaces, okay, first of all,
being queer doesn't necessarily mean
that all queers have the same needs,you know?
Yeah, we are queer. We share that.
We have that in common.
(13:07):
But as an asylum seeker who is queer,
it's my needs are different from someone
who's a citizen of the UK.
So for me, I need
legal help with my case
because that's like you're waiting forthat to start your life.
So you need to prioritize that.
(13:29):
You need peopleto explain the system to you
because it's a new country,new culture, new customs, new everything.
You need that to be explained to you.
You need to know what is a local council.
You know, all of that.
You need to know at least the basics,and then
you need help in terms of guidance,
(13:51):
not necessarily financial help,just guidance.
Tell me what I should do.
I should do thatin order for me to settle in the future.
Because some placesdo recognize these needs.
But it's mainly likegathering, socializing and all of that.
It's good.
It's important, butyou need to set people up for the future.
(14:14):
You know, you need to tell them, you know,
if you if, for example,if you want to get a job
or something in the future,if you did that is going to help you like,
I think the
main problem for someone who'smigrating in general is to settle.
That's the first step.
And then you need a social networkaround you.
(14:36):
You need to find people and all of that.
I think for someone who's alreadya citizen,
their status is already secured.
So it's not in the same boat with
someone who'swho has an insecure immigration status.
So I think the main problem
is to recognizethe different needs for queer people,
(15:00):
whether they're trans gays, lesbians,whatever.
Just recognize it's different.
Tulsi, what is important for youin thinking about this space?
My ideal queer space like,
they need to be very friendlyand they need more facilities
like those who really need studies.
(15:24):
I know the government must help for them
and then give them, like,whatever they need.
Yeah, they can,you know that we can prolong our
LGBTQ space, can be prolong.
Yeah.
So whatever it is,it can be like like a chain.
Like a chainwe go through together, grow together.
(15:46):
Zerith, what dreams do
you have for the space?
I would love a place where,you know, like, the drag
queens are all over and,you know, manning the spaces and,
you know, andand there's so many fun things you can do.
And, you know, I think being with the LGBTpeople, you know, you're always,
you know, laughing about one thingor the other
(16:07):
because we all are very creativeand we all very,
you know,
we've gone through so many thingsto, to overcome, to accept ourselves and,
you know, and, I like a space that they,you know, encourage
not only just LGBT people, but the allies
because we have more allies than wewe actually know.
So I imagine those kind of placesthey could, you know, embrace us.
(16:30):
You know, all of our, our,
our glitters and and shortcomings and,
and you know, and spacethat is is free for all basically.
Aiden andCharlie tell us what is important for you.
Like what the space can offer.
Well, I'm,
(16:50):
I very much would like to see some more,like, trans inclusive
events.
Just. Yeah.
We've proposed, like, having nights
that are like exclusive for peoplewho have a trans identity just because it
definitely, it's not tryingto, like, block out everybody else.
It's more like having a momentto find people
(17:11):
alike and kind of, like,make a community within a community.
Sometimes it's just needed
when you have people around youwho are like, oh, we get it.
Don't worry.
You know, I think that would benice to have, not all the time.
But just like as, like a little eventfrom time to time would be cool.
And I think it would definitely solvesome problems.
Like IDs.
(17:32):
Because that's definitely an issuefor trans people when it comes to walking
into events, you know,having like your birth name on it or like,
like IDs,not being like, up to date and stuff
because you're going throughlike a name change process, you know.
So I think that would definitely helpwith that issue.
I mean, yeah,because I've, I've been turned away before
(17:53):
because I don't look like,the photo on my passport.
Thank God.
Yeah.
I would say like trans aside,just in general,
not to be too vague,just one that isn't boring.
I would say the one thing I can't stand,especially in this community,
is how patronizing it could be.
(18:15):
It's telling you you need help.
It's telling you that you need thisand we're going to give it to you.
You didn't ask for it,but this isn't what this is.
And I think that's what I loveso much about this project and about
this whole communitythat we created within this project.
It's here for you,
it's new, and it's what you want.
(18:38):
So yeah, definitely like
trans stuff.
Gay stuff.
I mean, I think they're workingreally hard as well on accessibility.
That's a huge pointthat they're really driving.
And I just love that.
That's really goodbecause it's so, so much of my...
because I've got so many peoplelike friends
who are like neurodiverse and stufflike that and missed out on so much
(19:00):
just because people aren'twilling to do the bare minimum.
And that's that's the shame then.
And it could be accessibility with likephysical needs or, mental health.
Yeah. Neurodivergence. Like it's
we've...
the points have come up so muchabout accessibility for these things,
which is really good to hear.
So definitely going to have thingsimplemented in the future for anybody
(19:24):
so that everybody feelswelcome to this kind of space.
So that's going to be really niceto say for sure.
Those are beautiful dreams.
Thank you to everyone who has sharedthese visions of the future
and who are already working togetherto make these things happen.
The Friends of the Joiners Armscampaign is working to open its own queer
utopia, where we try to bring inas many of these ideas, insights
(19:47):
and possibilitiesas we can to offer a space
that provides everyone in our community,no matter their life experience,
with a sense of safety, joy,and opportunity.
A place where people are invitedin to dance at parties,
have sober nights, performin cabarets, meet for coffee
play board games, come togetherand plan new futures for our community.
(20:10):
A place that is as accessibleas possible, a place for all.
And we
believe that other queer spaces, venuesand organizations can follow our lead
and be more welcoming and accessible.
Throughout this series,you have heard the voices
of the participantsin the JOIN research project.
They've also createda free, interactive toolkit
(20:31):
on how queer spaces can do better withand for all members of our community,
particularlyfor those who face the greatest barriers.
Learn more about the projectand download the toolkit
at www.friendsjoinersarms.com.
Thank you for joining us on this journey.
Learning from these stories.
(20:52):
And as always, long live queer spaces.
Thank you to the City Bridge Trust,the funding arm of the City of London
Corporation’s charity Bridge House Estatesfor making this podcast possible.
And thanks to Siobhan McGuirkand Liv Wynter for helping us design
the series, to Sam Whelan-Curtinfor production and to the Outside Project
(21:13):
for providing uswith space to come together.
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