February 10, 2025 • 22 mins
How do LGBTIQ+ people navigate the UK asylum system and its hostile environment?
Join Sophie, Cassie, Ahed, XO and Tulsi to explore the impact of years-long waits, horrible housing and painful restrictions on access to work, education, training and – most importantly – community.
Co-produced by Ahed, Aiden, Casey, Charlie, Mazen, Sophrane, Tulsi, Violet, Wura, Xolisani and Zarith. Facilitation and Podcast Design Support: Siobhán McGuirk and Liv Wynter. Host: Anne Onwusiri. Production and Editing: Sam Whelan-Curtin. Podcast Artwork/Illustrations: BOE (@boestudio.s)
For more information on the JOIN Project and our Toolkit, as well as on the Friends of the Joiners Arms Campaign, please visit www.friendsjoinerarms.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Content warning (00:00):
In this episode, we will discuss experiences
of homophobic and transphobic violence,forced migration, stigma,
discrimination, isolation and suicide.
Welcome to the JOIN podcastfrom Friends of the Joiners Ams.
My name is Anne Onwusiri,a member of the campaign,
(00:21):
and we're here to share the voicesand insights of members
of our LGBTIQ+ communitywho are too often sidelined
as we discuss building queer spacesthat are accessible and affirming for all.
We are here to focus on the experiencesof trans and queer people
who are homeless, and those who have movedto the UK from elsewhere.
People who have experienced Britain'shostile state policies and environments
(00:45):
first hand, and who know what it takesto end exclusion.
In the UK and all over the world,
borders have been used to policeand exclude queer people for centuries.
This has included migration bans on peopleperceived by the authorities
as deviants, criminalsor threats to the public good.
As we are reminded by the riots of 2024
(01:06):
and politiciansdemonizing words, racism and xenophobia
remain very British problemsencountered by many people who come here.
LGBTIQ+ people migrate to the UKfor many different reasons:
to escape homophobicor transphobic persecution,
to seek asylum or as a refugee, to study
or work, to join family or a partner.
(01:29):
It is important to remember thatunder international and UK law, people
arriving in the UK have a legal rightto submit an asylum claim
and for it to be fairlyconsidered by the government.
The Human Rights Act 1998also states that no one shall be subjected
to torture, or to inhumanor degrading treatment or punishment.
Everyone has the right to libertyand security of person,
(01:51):
and everyone has the right to respectfor their private
and family life, home and correspondence.
In this episode,we focus on queer migration,
hearing from our JOIN collaboratorsabout the realities of seeking
asylum in the UK and how they impactqueer migrants in particular.
We'll hear the voicesof those who have experienced firsthand
(02:12):
the impacts of our government's effortsto create a hostile environment for people
who have migrated to the UK,as they talk to us about the long waits,
horrible housing, work restrictionsand restricted access
to education, trainingand most importantly, community.
They also speak on what alternativeswe can work towards,
fighting stigma and the opportunitiesthat queer spaces can provide to people,
(02:36):
no matter how or why they came to the UKfor freedom and exploration.
We're joined by Sophie (she/her),Casey (she/her), Ahed (she/her)
a trans woman from the Middle Eastseeking asylum in the UK,
Kholisani who also goes by XO (he/him)an advocate for LGBTQI+
(02:57):
community housing from Southern Africa,and Tulsi (he/him)
a transgayman, Indian Odissiclassical dancer and makeup artist
based in London, to share their importantand unique perspectives.
Sophie thinking about moving to the UKand the community that you're in -
did you have any preconceptionsof what you felt your time here
might be like moving to the UK?
(03:19):
I was hoping that I would be free
because back in Cameroon I was very.
I've been caught redhanded,but I swear on my life
it wasn't what it was,so I denied it with all my strength.
But to move into the UK.
You see, when I arrive,I kind of stay in the same community.
(03:44):
I was living here but couldn't make myselfwholly really free.
And Casey and Ahed,what were your experiences?
To be honest with you, the reasonwhy most queer people actually seek asylum
because majority of them actually facestigma and prosecution in their country,
so that the reason whythey've run here to seek shelter.
(04:07):
But the fact being herethinking that you're in a Home office
accommodation,the fact is that you have been actually,
being homophobic,who is in the hotel this time.
They cannot keep your informationconfidential and private
because they elaborateand they tell everybody about it.
And that is where everybody looks downupon you as a queer person in the hotel.
(04:31):
Most of the peoplewho you would ask them, like,
why do you thinkthe immigrants are coming here?
They would be saying for a better chance,
for a better lifeor a work opportunities or whatever,
that the thought that they haveor the assumption that they have on us.
But the actual truth is,when I come to here, I didn't come
because I want a better job,I want better life, or I want anything.
(04:54):
I was actually coming herebecause I was forced to come here.
My safety was in danger.
My country wasn't able to help me.
I did try the police station.
I did try... to everything.
I did try every solution.
And the only solution that left for meis to leave my country
and come to another culture,another place, to fly
(05:15):
a 13 hours flight just like to come hereto save my own life.
Being trans inmy country is very difficult.
Being an LGBT,there is no place, no place in my country.
LGBT is a crime in my country.
I personally experiencea lot of abuse with my relatives, my uncle
(05:36):
and my friends.
So there are some of mafiasand gangsters are still attacking
the LGBT people in my country,
and some of them got killed.
So now I'm one year, six months, I'm safe.
UK helped me so much, LGBT
community, so I feel like I be myself.
(05:58):
I'm happy.
You know,I do my nail polish, like I do my makeup.
I walk on the streets and nobody cares.
In my countrythey spit, they abuse, they beat.
You know, like so manythings is happening in my country.
Whereas in the UKnow I feel very safe and free.
Thank you Tulsi.
We’ve spoken on the experience coming hereand the challenges.
(06:19):
Let's talk more on the reality of theso-called safe spaces that are available.
Ahed, what are your thoughts?
Day after day and month after month,you will realize that the safety
that you are seekinghere is needing more work
- from your sideand from the other people’s side too.
Because there is not suchas a perfect country.
(06:40):
Every country has their own weaknessesand their own strength.
And UK have of course have a lot of,
laws and a lot of spacesand a lot of places
where you can express yourselfand it's like better than our hometown.
I can admit that it's much, much betterwhen you can actually
(07:01):
go out in the daytime wearing whateveryou want, expressing your sexuality,
and be with your partner and holdinghands, kissing each other.
No one would say anything.
But when you are in the Home Officeaccommodation,
because in the Home Office accommodationthere is a lot of people around the world
different background, different religion,different beliefs, different everything.
(07:24):
So in those places you will not feel happyto express yourself there
because you will still be under the traumaof those people.
For the queer asylum seeker, they aredifferent from other asylum seeker
because they are more exposedto all kinds of abuse,
just by this system, by the peoplewho were supposed to be there
(07:45):
to protect them,to make them feel comfortable, and also
by other people like other homophobic
other asylum seeker, like by everyone.
To have to go and claim asylum they'relike, okay, what proof you are gay?
What proof you are lesbian. Like come on.
How do I have to prove that?
(08:06):
So I was like there was so many barriers.
Like they were like, oh,it's a country of freedom and all that.
But you still fight for your freedom.
You still have to fight harder.
And we say, especially when you are comingfrom somewhere that was so hostile.
Moving here is not easy.
(08:28):
Before people were coming here, say,oh I'm seeking freedom and seeking...
For some reasonthis society has become quite hostile.
So what then?
Not just the society,but the asylum system.
People are being kept in hotels,
that we say from outside ‘Oh,it's a hotel.
(08:48):
They are living a luxury life.’
But which is not is not that differentfrom detention center?
That's one part.
You have the long waiting.
You cannot work. You can't do anything.
The only time...
most of the timesyou are there to feel sorry and depressed,
which makes it more hostile.
Like you felt like where do I belong?
(09:09):
Makes you question yourself likewas this the right move.
Should I change my sexuality?
Should I change who I am to feel accepted?
It sounds like such a oppressiveenvironment to be in, and having to face
these thoughts of compromising yourselfto fit in is just awful.
XO, tell us what your experience of theasylum system has been like.
(09:32):
Okay.
For me, the asylum system just it'sso stressful.
It's mentally breaking me slowlybut surely.
I think it's mentally breaking me because,
I've been here for like 15 months now andthey haven’t called me for an interview.
They haven't done anything,and then they expect me to continue
(09:53):
staying in the Home Officeaccommodation, with no work.
You are limited on what you'resupposed to do when you go to college.
Mostlythey will say they want you to do English
and Maths,and then you don't want to do those things
because you already have them from
back home and then they wantyou to do them again this side.
Because the course that I want to do,I have to go to uni.
(10:15):
I cannot go to uniwithout having the money to pay for that,
and I cannot get the money like the loans
from the government or anything,because my status is not secured yet.
and it's making me...
like my life is still hanging,doesn't have balance
now I don't know what to think.
I don't know what to say.
I would like to touch on the subjectthat XO has just mentioned.
(10:41):
To be honest with you, being in the hotel,
we have been there for many, many months.
It can literallytake you into a depression,
not forgetting the length of times
that they will take for you to get,
a call to go in for an interview.
(11:03):
Likewise, he said, I haven't got any callsyet, and I have been there for actually
13 months.
Prior to that,if you do ask for a working permit,
it takes months,I should say weeks plus months
before they could
actually get you a reply backso that you could get an opportunity
(11:23):
to go to do some sort of workbecause of the end of the day,
we’ve been in the asylum seekers
at Home Office accommodation...
We have needs.
We cannot just be in the hotelbecause 8 pounds that they are giving us
cannot do anything towards us.
We need to get out and work.
And why is it that they taking so long,when they could actually try to see
(11:44):
how soon as possiblethey could give us a reply back,
so at least we could go out and workif they don't want to give us work
as when we come into the country.
So my point is takingis that way they can at least
see how best it could work on getting fastreply back
so that at least
if possible, we could go out and workwhere we could get money,
rather than being in a hoteland being depressed
(12:05):
because what we want to do,we want to get out there and be ourself.
Casey and XO, can you tell us
more about the situation in the hotelsor home office accommodation?
When I enter the hotel,I literally let them know of...
actually, they knew about my sexuality.
I'm a trans womanand I let them know that I would like
(12:25):
to the pronouns or be calledShe and that's it.
Nothing else more.
Being there,I encounter a lot of difficulties.
Number one, the workers literally who
who actually talk to the security guard
about everything, about my information,literally give them all about my sexuality
(12:49):
and everything about meand the asylum seekers
who was in the hotelas well, about my sexuality.
They had making fun out of me,literally fun out of me.
I felt embarrassed many, many, many times.
It makes me uncomfortable.
There are points where I don't even wantto come downstairs and to mingle
(13:12):
with anybody, because they were literallymaking fun out of me.
And, most of the time I'm just in my room.
I feel very depressed.
I feel as if you know that I'm not worthy.
They don't considerthe feelings of other people.
Because for one
(13:32):
I think I've been moved five times alreadysince I came here.
In 15 months. Yes.
Imagine sharing a space with,
straight guys and everything.
And in the room, a big, big room.
It's just divided by curtains and boards,and then you have to sleep in that place.
You are gay.
(13:53):
You're sleeping with people who are...
And most of them, they walk around naked.
When you starethey start fighting with you.
I would like to touch on that - whileI was staying at my hotel, as well as what
XO is saying, as a transgender woman,I was actually forced
to share the room with a male,a heterosexual man.
(14:16):
And I declined from staying with him.
Sharing that room,I had to call migrant help.
I had to speak to my, my safeguardingoffice on umpteen occasions
before they could actually get me a roomto be by myself.
But so be the case that they had forced mewhere I was actually staying,
actually over one monthwith a male person.
(14:39):
Touching on that as well, like,
what is it this question like,
if the Home Office can have separate
hotels for ladies and guys,
why can't they have also separatehotels for us queer people?
Why can’t they do thatif they can get the hotels for the ladies
to have their own spaceand the men to have their own space?
(15:00):
Why can’t they do that for us so thatwe can also be safe in our own space?
Because right now, at the moment,every night at the hotel
that I'm staying at,I wouldn't say I'm safe.
Especially after London Pride.
A lot of people saw me with the shortsand everything that I was wearing
and they started giving me eyesand some of them
when I get into the elevator,you will see them walking out.
(15:25):
They don’t want to sit with me.
I have to sit alone.
Or with people that understand who I am,
who understand me.
And then they claim that we are here,
they are giving us the hotelsas a safe space.
It’s not safe.
It's not safe at all.
That is so horrible to be challengedby not feeling safe every day.
(15:47):
Ahed,can you tell us about your experience?
I was one of the peoplewho are very positive
about asylum and about all of that.
And I was like always the friend that toldtheir friend that you need to be strong.
It's not that hard. It's not that...
But unfortunately it is that hard.
(16:08):
Unfortunately, you need to fight.
Unfortunately we’re still here...
even like if you are Britishand you are trans or like British
and you are from the LGBT community,they are still fighting here
in their own country.
So how about us?
The peoplewho are coming from another country,
another culture,who are coming here and seeking asylum.
(16:28):
We need to fightas much as they fight too,
and we need to collaboratewith each other too,
because we have the same like aimand we have the same goal, which is like
a better place where everyone can feelsafe to be what they are.
If you just like acceptwhat they do to us...
Like there is another trans woman,
she will come again after usand she will seek asylum
(16:51):
and she will find the system as it isand she will find the same problem.
So we need always to give feedback.
We need always like to report them andwe need always to call the police on them.
We need always like to do all the stuffso they can change.
So when another people like uscoming from another places,
they will not find the system as it isand they will find it more improved.
(17:12):
So this is like the impactsof not having a safe space
that you will be lacking self confidence.
You will lack the self...
of expressing yourselfand without a safe space, the LGBTQ+
asylum seeker may struggleto express their identities freely,
leading to a loss of self-worthand identity.
(17:35):
And overall, the absence of a safe spacecan eventually affects
their well-being and abilityto build their lives in a new country.
Because when you come here,
you just don't have a family,you don't have a work,
you don't have a school,you don't have anything.
You start from the zero pointand you would love to find a safe space
when you can just like forget all the pastand starts to live in the present
(18:00):
and build and build it togetherso you can have a better future.
What alternativeswould you like the Home Office to offer?
And not just the Home Officebut society in general.
There are systemic and societal issuesthat are contributing to you all
having a really stressful time as peopleseeking asylum and as an LGBTIQ+ person.
(18:20):
In an ideal world, what alternatives wouldyou like to see for people coming here.
When these people are put into place
to take care of asylum seekers/ queer people,
they literally should be trained
and have some sort of confidentialityand privacy,
(18:43):
which they should keep to themselvesrather than go about telling other people.
I would like them to elaboratemore and establish more, educate more
about
queer people, literally,when it comes to nightclubs,
when it comes to schooling,when it comes to everywhere,
they must learn to actually enlightenpeople, educate them that you know
(19:05):
something we are actually peoplejust like heterosexual people,
and we should be treated with loveand respect.
When we go out, nobody should look at usin a disgusting manner.
We should be treated with a with a smile.
We should be treated with an open armslike right - if we go to the supermarket,
if we go to a club, wherever we go,if they could actually create
(19:27):
a better space where we all can feelcomfortable, safe and secure, being there.
This is very important.
Home Office need to have LGBT
people in the workplace, they mustthey must have one.
Either way, I'm telling this in futurethe people that claim asylum,
they ran away from the countryand are being LGBT.
(19:50):
One of the LGBT people are officersand they know in
and out, know what to tell, what to do.
What is the real story about.
Because when I claimedthere was a woman and man, they handle it,
they handle it,they handle it very properly, very nicely.
The thing is,the people don't know what is LGBT about.
(20:11):
So they need to gofor proper courses to do all this.
We are just...
I think they should just welcome us warmly
and not be discriminative.
We are gay. We are here.
We are not going anywhere,so they just have to accept it
and treat us with respect the same waythey treating other people.
Coming to the migrant part, I think
(20:34):
if the society was more welcomingbecause I think
I'm not sure about the number,more than 10 million people in the UK,
they are not born hereso most of those people, they tend to be
the ones who have got something bad to sayabout migrants at the end of the day.
But they were also in our shoes.
(20:57):
And then they go around saying bad stuffand everything.
I think they should just be morewelcoming.
They need to be educated more
in such situations because they don't knowwhat tomorrow holds for them.
They might need to migratesomewhere else as well
and they’ll need to be treatedwith respect and love at the same time.
(21:17):
Thank you XO.
And thank you
to everyone for sharing your storiesand insights here and helping to envision
and shape a better future for peoplegoing through this shocking system.
In the next episode we will hearabout the experience of homelessness
and housing insecurity,and why that has an outsized impact
on LGBTIQ+ people,as we begin to look at the role
(21:37):
of inclusive queer spacesin addressing these issues.
Join us on this journey,learn from these stories
and long live queer spaces.
Thank you to the City Bridge Trust,
the funding arm of the City of LondonCorporation’s charity Bridge House Estates
for making this podcast possible,
(21:58):
and thanks to Siobhan McGuirkand Liv Wynter for helping us design
the series, to Sam Whelan-Curtinfor production
and to the Outside Project for providingus the space to come together.
In this episode, we will discuss experiences
of homophobic and transphobic violence,forced migration, stigma,
discrimination, isolation and suicide.
Welcome to the JOIN podcastfrom Friends of the Joiners Ams.
My name is Anne Onwusiri,a member of the campaign,
(00:21):
and we're here to share the voicesand insights of members
of our LGBTIQ+ communitywho are too often sidelined
as we discuss building queer spacesthat are accessible and affirming for all.
We are here to focus on the experiencesof trans and queer people
who are homeless, and those who have movedto the UK from elsewhere.
People who have experienced Britain'shostile state policies and environments
(00:45):
first hand, and who know what it takesto end exclusion.
In the UK and all over the world,
borders have been used to policeand exclude queer people for centuries.
This has included migration bans on peopleperceived by the authorities
as deviants, criminalsor threats to the public good.
As we are reminded by the riots of 2024
(01:06):
and politiciansdemonizing words, racism and xenophobia
remain very British problemsencountered by many people who come here.
LGBTIQ+ people migrate to the UKfor many different reasons:
to escape homophobicor transphobic persecution,
to seek asylum or as a refugee, to study
or work, to join family or a partner.
(01:29):
It is important to remember thatunder international and UK law, people
arriving in the UK have a legal rightto submit an asylum claim
and for it to be fairlyconsidered by the government.
The Human Rights Act 1998also states that no one shall be subjected
to torture, or to inhumanor degrading treatment or punishment.
Everyone has the right to libertyand security of person,
(01:51):
and everyone has the right to respectfor their private
and family life, home and correspondence.
In this episode,we focus on queer migration,
hearing from our JOIN collaboratorsabout the realities of seeking
asylum in the UK and how they impactqueer migrants in particular.
We'll hear the voicesof those who have experienced firsthand
(02:12):
the impacts of our government's effortsto create a hostile environment for people
who have migrated to the UK,as they talk to us about the long waits,
horrible housing, work restrictionsand restricted access
to education, trainingand most importantly, community.
They also speak on what alternativeswe can work towards,
fighting stigma and the opportunitiesthat queer spaces can provide to people,
(02:36):
no matter how or why they came to the UKfor freedom and exploration.
We're joined by Sophie (she/her),Casey (she/her), Ahed (she/her)
a trans woman from the Middle Eastseeking asylum in the UK,
Kholisani who also goes by XO (he/him)an advocate for LGBTQI+
(02:57):
community housing from Southern Africa,and Tulsi (he/him)
a transgayman, Indian Odissiclassical dancer and makeup artist
based in London, to share their importantand unique perspectives.
Sophie thinking about moving to the UKand the community that you're in -
did you have any preconceptionsof what you felt your time here
might be like moving to the UK?
(03:19):
I was hoping that I would be free
because back in Cameroon I was very.
I've been caught redhanded,but I swear on my life
it wasn't what it was,so I denied it with all my strength.
But to move into the UK.
You see, when I arrive,I kind of stay in the same community.
(03:44):
I was living here but couldn't make myselfwholly really free.
And Casey and Ahed,what were your experiences?
To be honest with you, the reasonwhy most queer people actually seek asylum
because majority of them actually facestigma and prosecution in their country,
so that the reason whythey've run here to seek shelter.
(04:07):
But the fact being herethinking that you're in a Home office
accommodation,the fact is that you have been actually,
being homophobic,who is in the hotel this time.
They cannot keep your informationconfidential and private
because they elaborateand they tell everybody about it.
And that is where everybody looks downupon you as a queer person in the hotel.
(04:31):
Most of the peoplewho you would ask them, like,
why do you thinkthe immigrants are coming here?
They would be saying for a better chance,
for a better lifeor a work opportunities or whatever,
that the thought that they haveor the assumption that they have on us.
But the actual truth is,when I come to here, I didn't come
because I want a better job,I want better life, or I want anything.
(04:54):
I was actually coming herebecause I was forced to come here.
My safety was in danger.
My country wasn't able to help me.
I did try the police station.
I did try... to everything.
I did try every solution.
And the only solution that left for meis to leave my country
and come to another culture,another place, to fly
(05:15):
a 13 hours flight just like to come hereto save my own life.
Being trans inmy country is very difficult.
Being an LGBT,there is no place, no place in my country.
LGBT is a crime in my country.
I personally experiencea lot of abuse with my relatives, my uncle
(05:36):
and my friends.
So there are some of mafiasand gangsters are still attacking
the LGBT people in my country,
and some of them got killed.
So now I'm one year, six months, I'm safe.
UK helped me so much, LGBT
community, so I feel like I be myself.
(05:58):
I'm happy.
You know,I do my nail polish, like I do my makeup.
I walk on the streets and nobody cares.
In my countrythey spit, they abuse, they beat.
You know, like so manythings is happening in my country.
Whereas in the UKnow I feel very safe and free.
Thank you Tulsi.
We’ve spoken on the experience coming hereand the challenges.
(06:19):
Let's talk more on the reality of theso-called safe spaces that are available.
Ahed, what are your thoughts?
Day after day and month after month,you will realize that the safety
that you are seekinghere is needing more work
- from your sideand from the other people’s side too.
Because there is not suchas a perfect country.
(06:40):
Every country has their own weaknessesand their own strength.
And UK have of course have a lot of,
laws and a lot of spacesand a lot of places
where you can express yourselfand it's like better than our hometown.
I can admit that it's much, much betterwhen you can actually
(07:01):
go out in the daytime wearing whateveryou want, expressing your sexuality,
and be with your partner and holdinghands, kissing each other.
No one would say anything.
But when you are in the Home Officeaccommodation,
because in the Home Office accommodationthere is a lot of people around the world
different background, different religion,different beliefs, different everything.
(07:24):
So in those places you will not feel happyto express yourself there
because you will still be under the traumaof those people.
For the queer asylum seeker, they aredifferent from other asylum seeker
because they are more exposedto all kinds of abuse,
just by this system, by the peoplewho were supposed to be there
(07:45):
to protect them,to make them feel comfortable, and also
by other people like other homophobic
other asylum seeker, like by everyone.
To have to go and claim asylum they'relike, okay, what proof you are gay?
What proof you are lesbian. Like come on.
How do I have to prove that?
(08:06):
So I was like there was so many barriers.
Like they were like, oh,it's a country of freedom and all that.
But you still fight for your freedom.
You still have to fight harder.
And we say, especially when you are comingfrom somewhere that was so hostile.
Moving here is not easy.
(08:28):
Before people were coming here, say,oh I'm seeking freedom and seeking...
For some reasonthis society has become quite hostile.
So what then?
Not just the society,but the asylum system.
People are being kept in hotels,
that we say from outside ‘Oh,it's a hotel.
(08:48):
They are living a luxury life.’
But which is not is not that differentfrom detention center?
That's one part.
You have the long waiting.
You cannot work. You can't do anything.
The only time...
most of the timesyou are there to feel sorry and depressed,
which makes it more hostile.
Like you felt like where do I belong?
(09:09):
Makes you question yourself likewas this the right move.
Should I change my sexuality?
Should I change who I am to feel accepted?
It sounds like such a oppressiveenvironment to be in, and having to face
these thoughts of compromising yourselfto fit in is just awful.
XO, tell us what your experience of theasylum system has been like.
(09:32):
Okay.
For me, the asylum system just it'sso stressful.
It's mentally breaking me slowlybut surely.
I think it's mentally breaking me because,
I've been here for like 15 months now andthey haven’t called me for an interview.
They haven't done anything,and then they expect me to continue
(09:53):
staying in the Home Officeaccommodation, with no work.
You are limited on what you'resupposed to do when you go to college.
Mostlythey will say they want you to do English
and Maths,and then you don't want to do those things
because you already have them from
back home and then they wantyou to do them again this side.
Because the course that I want to do,I have to go to uni.
(10:15):
I cannot go to uniwithout having the money to pay for that,
and I cannot get the money like the loans
from the government or anything,because my status is not secured yet.
and it's making me...
like my life is still hanging,doesn't have balance
now I don't know what to think.
I don't know what to say.
I would like to touch on the subjectthat XO has just mentioned.
(10:41):
To be honest with you, being in the hotel,
we have been there for many, many months.
It can literallytake you into a depression,
not forgetting the length of times
that they will take for you to get,
a call to go in for an interview.
(11:03):
Likewise, he said, I haven't got any callsyet, and I have been there for actually
13 months.
Prior to that,if you do ask for a working permit,
it takes months,I should say weeks plus months
before they could
actually get you a reply backso that you could get an opportunity
(11:23):
to go to do some sort of workbecause of the end of the day,
we’ve been in the asylum seekers
at Home Office accommodation...
We have needs.
We cannot just be in the hotelbecause 8 pounds that they are giving us
cannot do anything towards us.
We need to get out and work.
And why is it that they taking so long,when they could actually try to see
(11:44):
how soon as possiblethey could give us a reply back,
so at least we could go out and workif they don't want to give us work
as when we come into the country.
So my point is takingis that way they can at least
see how best it could work on getting fastreply back
so that at least
if possible, we could go out and workwhere we could get money,
rather than being in a hoteland being depressed
(12:05):
because what we want to do,we want to get out there and be ourself.
Casey and XO, can you tell us
more about the situation in the hotelsor home office accommodation?
When I enter the hotel,I literally let them know of...
actually, they knew about my sexuality.
I'm a trans womanand I let them know that I would like
(12:25):
to the pronouns or be calledShe and that's it.
Nothing else more.
Being there,I encounter a lot of difficulties.
Number one, the workers literally who
who actually talk to the security guard
about everything, about my information,literally give them all about my sexuality
(12:49):
and everything about meand the asylum seekers
who was in the hotelas well, about my sexuality.
They had making fun out of me,literally fun out of me.
I felt embarrassed many, many, many times.
It makes me uncomfortable.
There are points where I don't even wantto come downstairs and to mingle
(13:12):
with anybody, because they were literallymaking fun out of me.
And, most of the time I'm just in my room.
I feel very depressed.
I feel as if you know that I'm not worthy.
They don't considerthe feelings of other people.
Because for one
(13:32):
I think I've been moved five times alreadysince I came here.
In 15 months. Yes.
Imagine sharing a space with,
straight guys and everything.
And in the room, a big, big room.
It's just divided by curtains and boards,and then you have to sleep in that place.
You are gay.
(13:53):
You're sleeping with people who are...
And most of them, they walk around naked.
When you starethey start fighting with you.
I would like to touch on that - whileI was staying at my hotel, as well as what
XO is saying, as a transgender woman,I was actually forced
to share the room with a male,a heterosexual man.
(14:16):
And I declined from staying with him.
Sharing that room,I had to call migrant help.
I had to speak to my, my safeguardingoffice on umpteen occasions
before they could actually get me a roomto be by myself.
But so be the case that they had forced mewhere I was actually staying,
actually over one monthwith a male person.
(14:39):
Touching on that as well, like,
what is it this question like,
if the Home Office can have separate
hotels for ladies and guys,
why can't they have also separatehotels for us queer people?
Why can’t they do thatif they can get the hotels for the ladies
to have their own spaceand the men to have their own space?
(15:00):
Why can’t they do that for us so thatwe can also be safe in our own space?
Because right now, at the moment,every night at the hotel
that I'm staying at,I wouldn't say I'm safe.
Especially after London Pride.
A lot of people saw me with the shortsand everything that I was wearing
and they started giving me eyesand some of them
when I get into the elevator,you will see them walking out.
(15:25):
They don’t want to sit with me.
I have to sit alone.
Or with people that understand who I am,
who understand me.
And then they claim that we are here,
they are giving us the hotelsas a safe space.
It’s not safe.
It's not safe at all.
That is so horrible to be challengedby not feeling safe every day.
(15:47):
Ahed,can you tell us about your experience?
I was one of the peoplewho are very positive
about asylum and about all of that.
And I was like always the friend that toldtheir friend that you need to be strong.
It's not that hard. It's not that...
But unfortunately it is that hard.
(16:08):
Unfortunately, you need to fight.
Unfortunately we’re still here...
even like if you are Britishand you are trans or like British
and you are from the LGBT community,they are still fighting here
in their own country.
So how about us?
The peoplewho are coming from another country,
another culture,who are coming here and seeking asylum.
(16:28):
We need to fightas much as they fight too,
and we need to collaboratewith each other too,
because we have the same like aimand we have the same goal, which is like
a better place where everyone can feelsafe to be what they are.
If you just like acceptwhat they do to us...
Like there is another trans woman,
she will come again after usand she will seek asylum
(16:51):
and she will find the system as it isand she will find the same problem.
So we need always to give feedback.
We need always like to report them andwe need always to call the police on them.
We need always like to do all the stuffso they can change.
So when another people like uscoming from another places,
they will not find the system as it isand they will find it more improved.
(17:12):
So this is like the impactsof not having a safe space
that you will be lacking self confidence.
You will lack the self...
of expressing yourselfand without a safe space, the LGBTQ+
asylum seeker may struggleto express their identities freely,
leading to a loss of self-worthand identity.
(17:35):
And overall, the absence of a safe spacecan eventually affects
their well-being and abilityto build their lives in a new country.
Because when you come here,
you just don't have a family,you don't have a work,
you don't have a school,you don't have anything.
You start from the zero pointand you would love to find a safe space
when you can just like forget all the pastand starts to live in the present
(18:00):
and build and build it togetherso you can have a better future.
What alternativeswould you like the Home Office to offer?
And not just the Home Officebut society in general.
There are systemic and societal issuesthat are contributing to you all
having a really stressful time as peopleseeking asylum and as an LGBTIQ+ person.
(18:20):
In an ideal world, what alternatives wouldyou like to see for people coming here.
When these people are put into place
to take care of asylum seekers/ queer people,
they literally should be trained
and have some sort of confidentialityand privacy,
(18:43):
which they should keep to themselvesrather than go about telling other people.
I would like them to elaboratemore and establish more, educate more
about
queer people, literally,when it comes to nightclubs,
when it comes to schooling,when it comes to everywhere,
they must learn to actually enlightenpeople, educate them that you know
(19:05):
something we are actually peoplejust like heterosexual people,
and we should be treated with loveand respect.
When we go out, nobody should look at usin a disgusting manner.
We should be treated with a with a smile.
We should be treated with an open armslike right - if we go to the supermarket,
if we go to a club, wherever we go,if they could actually create
(19:27):
a better space where we all can feelcomfortable, safe and secure, being there.
This is very important.
Home Office need to have LGBT
people in the workplace, they mustthey must have one.
Either way, I'm telling this in futurethe people that claim asylum,
they ran away from the countryand are being LGBT.
(19:50):
One of the LGBT people are officersand they know in
and out, know what to tell, what to do.
What is the real story about.
Because when I claimedthere was a woman and man, they handle it,
they handle it,they handle it very properly, very nicely.
The thing is,the people don't know what is LGBT about.
(20:11):
So they need to gofor proper courses to do all this.
We are just...
I think they should just welcome us warmly
and not be discriminative.
We are gay. We are here.
We are not going anywhere,so they just have to accept it
and treat us with respect the same waythey treating other people.
Coming to the migrant part, I think
(20:34):
if the society was more welcomingbecause I think
I'm not sure about the number,more than 10 million people in the UK,
they are not born hereso most of those people, they tend to be
the ones who have got something bad to sayabout migrants at the end of the day.
But they were also in our shoes.
(20:57):
And then they go around saying bad stuffand everything.
I think they should just be morewelcoming.
They need to be educated more
in such situations because they don't knowwhat tomorrow holds for them.
They might need to migratesomewhere else as well
and they’ll need to be treatedwith respect and love at the same time.
(21:17):
Thank you XO.
And thank you
to everyone for sharing your storiesand insights here and helping to envision
and shape a better future for peoplegoing through this shocking system.
In the next episode we will hearabout the experience of homelessness
and housing insecurity,and why that has an outsized impact
on LGBTIQ+ people,as we begin to look at the role
(21:37):
of inclusive queer spacesin addressing these issues.
Join us on this journey,learn from these stories
and long live queer spaces.
Thank you to the City Bridge Trust,
the funding arm of the City of LondonCorporation’s charity Bridge House Estates
for making this podcast possible,
(21:58):
and thanks to Siobhan McGuirkand Liv Wynter for helping us design
the series, to Sam Whelan-Curtinfor production
and to the Outside Project for providingus the space to come together.
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