March 11, 2025 âą 42 mins
The Puzzle Factory - Episode 7
đ Guest: Paul Sievers â Devonport Electrical
Episode Summary:
Ever been burned by a âguaranteed leadsâ digital marketing promise? Or wondered why NZâs electrical apprenticeship system feels a bit⊠outdated? This week, Paul Sievers from Devonport Electrical joins Alex to expose the biggest traps tradies fall into, why apprenticeships need an overhaul, and a sneaky hazard lurking under the bed.
Yep, weâre going there. From overpriced Google Ads to dodgy apprenticeships and phones that could (literally) shock you, this episode is packed with real talk, expert insights, and a few solid laughs.
Whatâs Inside?
đč The truth about digital marketing for tradiesâwhat works & whatâs a scam
đč NZâs electrical apprenticeship system: where it fails & how to fix it
đč Why your phone might be more dangerous than the wiring youâre working on
đč The fine line between tech convenience and liability in a clientâs home
đč Practical tips to protect your business, your tools, and your sanity
About Paul:Paul Sievers is the kind of sparky whoâs seen it allâgood jobs, bad jobs, and enough marketing horror stories to write a book. With years in the trade, heâs got sharp insights into business growth, training the next generation, and keeping yourself out of trouble on the job.
https://devonportelectrical.co.nz/
đ© Got feedback or want to be on the show? Email us at podcast@nztradegroup.co.nz
â Like what you hear? Subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hi, I'm Paul Stevens, real enthusiast of this book that
we've got here and I'm locked away here at NZ Trade Group
headquarters. I'm from Dimple Electrical and I
can thoroughly recommend this book.
Hey mate, welcome to the puzzle Hatred.
(00:25):
Thanks. Very much thanks bro.
What do? You have to welcome.
Thanks, Ben. I've been here a few.
Yeah, can we not? I'm enjoying it.
What's? The other thing that you say?
Oh well. Starting to get some traction on
that thing now. To episode 7.
Hey, we're starting to know whatwe're doing again.
(00:46):
Like man, it's episode 7. It's episode 7.
The viewers may notice that we're actually in a a different
room. Yeah, it's making all the
difference. We're clearly getting better at
this. No fucking viewers.
So no fucking clue. So.
It's another black room. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, I think this one's got a lotof.
Character. It still looks like the fucking.
(01:07):
Thing about this room is you canhear people going in the toilet.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it wasn't me, by the way.
That was Austin Ozzy. Yeah, OK.
But yeah, that still looks like a hostage video, depending on
which angle you're looking at. But hey, I'm happy. 100% So yes,
as we were saying episode 7, we have moved studios.
We were going to save this for season 2, but we all got Santosh
(01:30):
excited massively yesterday so Ilike it.
Oh, me, too. And I, and I think it's our own
little personal space. Yeah.
We've got master of ceremonies in the corner over there.
Haley, DJ Hales. DJ Hales on the decks.
Yeah. And so, yeah, big job yesterday
getting everything in here. But this will be home for for a
(01:52):
while now I hope. Yeah, totally man, it's a lot
better. So today we've got a OG member
on Paul Severs Water Rooster. Awesome.
Mirror of Davenport, definitely been around for ages already
been referenced a couple of times on a couple of episodes
already. Yeah, yeah, only because he's
he's been such an influencer, very passionate about our
(02:12):
industry, very passionate about standards.
Yeah. And yeah, loves what he does.
Yeah, well, he's taught a lot ofpeople a lot of things, you
know, so he's a, he's a cracker.Like, he's a real funny guy, but
he's super smart, super knowledgeable.
Yeah, created. Dean's a trade group, didn't he?
Yeah, another one. Another one it.
Was stolen from him stolen. Yeah, him and Haitian should
start, start, sign a precision. Well, you know, they're Matt.
(02:35):
Hey. What creating trade group?
No, they were just about to havea scrap over a builder.
Oh, perfect. And they got put together and
like sorted out and then they came out.
They were really good mates. Oh good.
Well, I hope he talks a little bit about that.
So anyway, yeah, pleasure to have him into the building.
We haven't seen him in a while and I'm pretty sure he would
have had some pretty decent yarns, right?
(02:56):
Yeah, it's a goodie. So let's go.
Let's get him on. Awesome.
Cheers Paul Savers. Good day mate, how are you?
Good. Welcome to the Puzzle Factory.
Yeah, it's pretty good. I like being in the new studio.
Yeah, well, yeah. Craig didn't get the new studio
there, did he? Well, we've got a bit of a
hierarchy, you know, Number one doesn't mean everything.
(03:21):
I'll get a phone call about this.
Yeah. Hey, bro.
Yeah. So we had a pretty manic day
yesterday because we managed to sort of negotiate a new room in
our offices. Yeah, that's awesome.
So we'll, I will start building it yesterday.
So sort of put up the panel and we got the curtains up and then
we got too excited and fucking dragged everything in there.
(03:42):
Yeah. And got set up.
So. Yeah.
First one in the new studio, mate.
Cool. Yeah.
All right. So you know, we've known each
other a while now, mate, and you've sort of been dealing with
the trade group for a long time now.
Yeah. So get what's the back story,
mate? Tell us who you are, what you
do, all that jazz. Yeah, Paul from Dimpool
(04:02):
Electrical, we mainly operate onthe North Shore, but mainly in
Dimport, in the electrician for a long time now.
Shit or not. Well, I'm glad you said that,
but yeah, no, that started out and wanted to get into the trade
because I lost my father to electrical incident and wanted
(04:26):
to know more. So I did the natural thing and
went all the way and figured outwhat happened and, and and did
it like that. So that's what kind of got me
into it. And then been trying to enjoy it
for for a number of years. You have your ups and you have
your. Downs It's not all.
Bad, mate. It's a good, it's a good trade
to give it to, yeah. No, it is.
It is. And I think it out of all the
(04:47):
trades, it opens up a lot of doors for you.
It does if you want to go that way, you know.
Yeah, yeah. So, so now it's been good.
And then we didn't did my inspectors exams and stuff about
five years ago. So yeah, electrical inspector
now, which is a little. Buttoned up my because yeah,
coming back to what you were saying, you know anybody
(05:09):
watching this who knows you theyknow if they driving to fucking
Devon Paul they're getting a phone call.
Mike, who the fuck are? You and.
What are you doing in my? Area.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly that it's it's quite hard to get in
to the air because it's, you know, the the traffic is
horrible. So I was living there and I was
(05:31):
like, why? Why am I travelling all over
Auckland? It's going to take me 40 minutes
to get in and out of my own own area.
So I just settled and just went stuff it.
I'll I'll start up down here. Yeah.
And totally honestly, going backto that and carving out your
area, obviously we had Seb on the other day.
(05:53):
There's a few others who've really taken that from you.
Copied copied my. Yeah, they basically ripped you
off. Yeah, it's fine.
I don't. I don't mind.
It's a good. It's a good business strategy,
saves on a lot of travel time and downtime, and you can often
get way more jobs in a day if you're not got you guys sitting
(06:14):
in a van on the on the motorway or the limo in the car park, you
know? So, yeah, that's good.
It's worked really well. Yeah, man, because you're quite
the household name in Devonport.I like we we kind of refer to
you as the mayor of Devonport a lot of the time.
Yeah, being called that, but that I don't know if that's
something I'm proud of, but yeah, it's definitely, it's
(06:38):
definitely a cool place. I grew up there.
I love it. And and to work in the area that
you that you love is is was awesome.
Yeah. It makes it a bit high going to
the supermarket sometimes but you run into people and you're
like business name. You don't know whether it's your
kids, mates, friend or yeah or if it's a client or anything.
Small town syndrome. I don't shop at the local
(06:59):
supermarket. Go go to take a Pono.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice.
Now the because my partner's family are all kind of in the
Devonport area and that so obviously went for dinner last
night and I was telling them youwere on.
Sweet. And father in law's going.
He's not the mayor of Devonport.I am.
Shout out to Greg. Yeah, crack up.
(07:23):
So what's been happening, mate? What's what's been going on in
the industry? What's been going on in business
for you recently? I think it's the same as as
everyone else. It's been a bit bit quiet out
there, Few factors with that. But I, I think everyone's in the
same boat and we've been quite lucky because we've been going
(07:43):
for a number of years that we can just sort of, we've got lots
of repeat customers and stuff like that and we've.
Brand itself? Kind of, yeah.
We've been quite good with yeah,with that kind of thing, so it's
not been too bad. I can always tell it's quiet
because we see about 20 more trucks coming into Devonport
(08:04):
than we what we normally would because most times people can't
be bothered going there. So yeah, they'll turn the job
down, but at the moment we're seeing a lot of a lot more
competition. Yeah.
I mean, Devonport is great once you're there, yeah.
Once you're there, it's great. If I was ever working in Devil
back in the day, I, I, I wouldn't go without an
apprentice and then on the way home I'd go buy a six pack.
(08:26):
And try and. Drink it while you sat on Lake
Rd. Yeah, it's yeah, the only way to
do it. Yeah, no, that is actually the
only way to do it. Yeah, yeah.
So we're having a a bit of a yarn just before we sort of
pressed go on the on the recording you had some stuff to
say about apprentices, I believeapprentices training.
(08:51):
Yes, it's kind of funny. I think that we're one of the
only businesses or, or trades and still in existence that that
pay to train our own guys. And it's, it's quite hard
because you, you're often training the guy that's going to
be your next competition. So finish your trade.
(09:13):
I'm going to go out of my own pay.
I like what my boss did Dimpol. It's called 2 point O down the
road. And hey, he's going to do it for
Tim Bucks cheaper now and you know, do it.
But it's also quite interesting.Like I've come across things in
the past with like the role of that being the boss and in
(09:37):
charge of someone's apprenticeship.
And I think some stuff needs to change, like for example, if you
know you've had an employment dispute with you apprentice, are
you his boss? Are you his trainer?
Are you his? Yeah, what's your?
Actual role, so you've got like 3 different hats that you're
wearing and I think that's the situation where the lines can
(09:59):
become a bit blurred. So for example, if the guy is
failing on his on his tick or he's not showing up to tick,
tell him off. You might have a personal
grievance on your hands. So I think it'll be good if at
some point there was sort of that sort of a bit more
legislation around what that role kind of looks like.
(10:20):
Because I can see it's, I mean, it's, it's happened to me that
thing like, oh, if you, I've hademployment lawyers rang me and
going, hey, can you, if you signhim off to the first year, he's
happy to leave you, you know, like, like that kind of thing.
And, and using that as a bit of a battering tool, which I, I
didn't think was good. And it shouldn't, it shouldn't
(10:42):
happen. So I didn't do it, But I, I
wound up with a, with a, you know, another court case.
Well, we know you neither lost one.
Court coach your hobby mate, we know.
That so it's I won't settle you.Should've been a bloody lawyer
mate. No, I I think if, if something's
wrong, it's it's and it's inherently wrong, you should
(11:05):
fight for it. On principle.
On principle, yeah. Yeah, which brings me to the the
other one in regards to someone using our name recently.
Just just before we get to that,just going back to The
Apprentice thing, yeah. And the apprenticeship scheme
and how the training works, that's also something that I
(11:28):
feel quite strongly about. I've been a supervisor for a
bunch of apprentices. I only finished my
apprenticeship in New Zealand. I did most of it in the UK.
And the biggest problem I say isthere's no clear road map.
No. In the apprenticeships game it's
almost like you've got to interpret it and get the right
amount of credits and there should be a clear road map.
(11:51):
Yeah, I think the, I mean even recently, like the, the, the,
the apprenticeship thing's been in, in freefall for the last two
to three years, pretty much since COVID and someone tried to
go in and, and change it and they've changed it for the
worse. And then we've had skills,
(12:13):
skills sold and, and God knows who owns it now.
And like my guy, my, I've got 1 apprentice at the moment, Monty,
who's very good, but he, he started getting charged.
He's supposed to be on, he's straight out of school and he
got charged for like, I don't know, almost six, six months
(12:34):
coming out of his, out of his wages.
And I don't think he's got the money back yet, you know, And
then on Friday, last Friday, I got an e-mail saying are you
we've overcharged your GST or something?
Or some other members might havegot the same e-mail.
And then they were like, oh, wait, sorry, we sent that by
mistake. And it's just so Mickey Mouse.
Yeah, so am I getting. I was so confused by the end of
(12:56):
it and. Am I getting money or do I owe
you money? Well, whose money?
Whose gets the money if there ismoney like so, yeah, No, I
don't. I don't know what to do.
I think the the need to have apprentices is there.
I think there needs to be some sort of some clearer guidelines
(13:16):
and. Needs a redesign.
Redesign, Yeah, to bring it back.
I mean, it's a 1950s system and we're still trying to use it,
you know? And, and, and as, as we sort of
said, you know, in the last fiveyears, every six months, it
seems like there's been a bit ofa different organization running
the training, which means that you're dealing with somebody
new. So normally the organization
(13:38):
changes, and then about six months later, the person who's
looking after your apprentices gets in touch.
And then by the time you actually want to go back to him
for something, they've gone. Yeah.
And then you've got to try and track down who else.
And then they send you a bell and you're like, what the fuck
is that for? And then you just go fuck it.
Yeah, we argued. We got like a when when it was
(13:59):
all changing over, we got a, a pretty big bill to say, hey,
you've got to pay for this. And we're like, what?
What have you done? We haven't seen anyone for a
year. We haven't got.
Do you want to go to court, motherfucker?
But no they. Or frame me for murder.
But now they, yeah, so it is, itis a bit unfair and it's a it's
(14:23):
not good for the employer, it's not good for The Apprentice and
it's kind of turned into a bit of a, a guess of money making
thing. Yeah, I think it's definitely.
Revenue dollars, yeah. Revenue driven, I yeah, Anyway,
I rudely badged my way in. There we were.
We were sort of moving on to something else you've been
through this year. Yeah.
(14:43):
The other thing was we had obviously times we ended last
year, yeah, last year really funend of the year.
But we had another company who has actually worked for me for a
brief time and started up importelectrical 2.0 and with things
getting a bit quieter he decidedto basically got some bad advice
(15:09):
and thought, hey, I can use Devenport Electrical in my brand
name because hey, Devenport's anarea.
So this is like a search term onhis Google Google.
Yeah, all that. Keywords.
Essentially keywords, Yeah. Yeah.
So anyway, we wrote him a nice letter explaining that we
weren't very happy about it, andhe came back with a chat.
(15:32):
GDP response didn't seek legal advice and and we basically said
take it down because it's there's different sets of rules,
right? There's Google's terms of of
trade, which is like you can, you can use those place names,
but the actual over ruling law is New Zealand law, law of the
(15:57):
land, right? You can.
Google says you can basically dowhat you want, but there is
still those advertising laws andstandards still exists.
I, I, I just think that's very interesting because when I was
in business, Google, SEO, socialmedia wasn't something we drove
(16:17):
for leads, probably just becausewe were more contract than
service based kind of thing. But I get a lot of people
calling me up now going how do Idrive business through Google,
you know, should I be playing, paying for digital marketing?
What keyword should I use? Is it area specific?
All these things. So it's just very interesting
(16:39):
because you going through that was the first time I'd heard of
it. Yeah.
So it's quite an important message to people out there to
maybe just check out the lore ofthe land before you start
hanging your keywords in. Yeah.
The other thing is as well as I think these like I know my
phone's been ringing pretty hot with people digital marketers
(17:00):
ringing at the moment going oh, you could spend this so you
could. So what they do is they ring
you, cold call you whatever signup to our our really good
marketing plan and but. It but it'll take at least six
months before you get any leads.Six months before you get any
leads and and hey, look, you're competed as spinning this, so
(17:20):
you kind of you kind of want to get them off the phone.
So you're like, yeah, cool, signme out whatever.
And what they do, they're like, we're just going to design this
just for you. It's just for your business and
we're going to work really closely with you.
And what they do is when they ring the next Sparky down the
road and sell them the same story.
Yeah. So if the spins going up,
they're making more money because that you've got now
(17:42):
you've got 2 businesses competing against each other.
So the the AdWords go up. I think the last time I looked
at Google Adwords, I don't know what Auckland electrician was
going but it's something stupid like $45.00 A.
Click Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's like you got to
you got to do a lot of jobs to get to get those.
Yeah, but you can just do Googleads yourself.
(18:03):
Yeah, like you can just downloadthe app and and away you.
Go away. Just to clarify with the digital
marketing thing, they're not allbad.
We're not saying that. I did a bit of research.
On this. No, no, no, I, I actually did a
bit of research on this. So we had a digital marketing
company who was ringing all the members of trade groups and
(18:26):
we've done a deal, we've done a partnership.
So everyone's ringing me going, is this legit?
Like have you done a deal with them?
A couple of them had signed up and I'm like, never heard of
them before. So I ended up getting this
lady's number and I Ranga and I'm like, right now what?
What's going on here, then? Yeah, I've not said that.
I've. I've never said that.
(18:48):
I was like, come on. Yeah, I've.
Anyway, she slept up and sent a text and I got hold of it.
So I rang her back. God bless her, right?
She was absolutely trying it on.But anyway, I go.
You need to stop or else I'm going to give you a cease and
desist. Yeah.
Anyway, she goes, well, you've not started this relationship
(19:10):
off very well, have you? Should we meet up for lunch and
see if we can work together? And I was like, no, thanks, but
good on you. Good try.
Yeah, yeah. So my my advice with digital
marketing is it's a big hot thing at the minute.
Do your research because there'ssome great outfits out there and
probably maybe you get a referral from somebody who's
(19:30):
used them. I.
Think so, yeah. I think that's the way to go
with that one. I Yeah, yeah.
For me, I think there is a need for that as well, but also just
to protect your own brand by having something there so that
you are still up at the top. If someone searches your name,
it still pops up. Because at very least your
online presence is portfolio, people can say that you're
(19:54):
legit. They can say you know past
projects that you've done, what kind of work you do, and you
know as soon as you put a quote in for a job.
As soon as you put in even a tender for a commercial job,
they're still going to go and look at it.
So if you've at least got some testimonials and a bit of
portfolio on that exactly, you know, and you can take that as
(20:15):
far as you want. You can be all the way up to
where your websites, the, you know, the main driving force in
your business. That's where all your incoming
leads are coming from. And it's, you know, the way you
run. Exactly.
Yeah, it's definitely needed these days, but I think a lot of
people out there are still sort of learning what it's all about.
I think if you don't, it's kind of one of those things that I
(20:35):
mean, we do, we have so many hats being a business owner.
Yeah. It's like one of those things
you're like, great, I can outsource it.
How much money do you want? Cool.
Yeah. See you later.
See you later. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, I think I think, yeah, you're right.
Do your research and and figure it.
Out same with anything to some extent, but I think that is a
particularly tricky 1, you know,because yeah, they they love
(20:56):
playing that game. Oh, you won't see any leads for
the first five years, but keep, you know, just pairs, 100 grand
and then you might get a call. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
So obviously we've, we have spoken about this a bit on the
podcast recently, but it's pretty poignant at the minute.
How's the last year or so been with the market sort of being
(21:17):
dodgy and all the rest of it? How, what, what are you, what's
your, you know, tips for survival and stuff like that in
the hard times? I've noticed.
I mean, we just take everything.Even so, just don't turn any job
down. We just.
Haven't turned anything down. OK, Yep, we can do that.
Yep, Yep, Yep. It's been hard for the staff
(21:41):
because they're used to doing a certain quality or certain type
of job. And it's also been like, I've
noticed that the, the customers want stuff right now that
they'll ring and they're like, well, I had a phone call this
morning and it's like, can you wire my spa?
Yeah. And I was like, we can do it
Monday. Yeah, OK, cool.
(22:02):
And then cause I've got Takapunaelectrical, different phone
number. She rings that she's like,
answer that phone. She's like, can you do the spa?
I was like, I can do it Monday. So you can both go in, are you?
Yeah, so. Dimport and tech for an
electrical guy in there. Oh, you can have.
A little spa party mate, a bit of a pina colada in there.
Get your boxes on. Yeah.
So I, I think we managed to to squeeze it in at the end of the
(22:24):
day, but it was, it was, it is like that.
And that will just ring the nextguy on the list and the next guy
down the list will do the job. Yeah, because he doesn't have
any work or doesn't have much work.
So it's that. Rapid, good service.
Good service quick, you know, get in there, get the job done.
Yeah, I've, I've noticed with usin terms of like our smaller
(22:48):
jobs getting the the payment time is getting longer and
longer, but I and I just think that they no one's got any
money, right. So it's, it's, yeah, it wasn't
best year for us last year and had a big legal bill at the end
of it, at the end of it as well.So the lawyers had a good year
(23:10):
last year. But that yeah, it was, I think
that's what it I think. I think it's more about that
there's just not the money out there anymore to do those little
jobs. It's going to be interesting
when we come back out of this because I've seen a lot of guys
going to Australia, for example.Yeah, I had two of my guys go to
(23:34):
Australia. They're having a great time.
Then we just found a design floor with the new studio.
That was sadly. Just hear everyone going to the
shit to the next. Door.
Hey Tate, we can hear you. We've built the studio in the
shits of a. We could put some put some more
soundproofing on there. Yeah, we might have to, might
(23:56):
have to do a bit of a decoupling, get some, get some
noise line in there. Sorry about.
It gets some egg crates. And stick it on the wall.
Yeah. Bucket L, Yeah.
It's going to be funny when we come back.
I think there's going to be a lot less of us.
We got a really ageing population of electricians too,
(24:17):
I think. Yeah.
Like I think what was it, the board stopped putting that out,
but I think it was 65% of electricians were over the age
of 60. No way.
Yeah, so it was in AI. Don't know what the latest one
is, but really interesting reading.
Yeah, they had like a little graph.
(24:38):
I've posted it online a couple of times trying to go to the
guys. Hey, look at this week.
We, yeah, we got a got a good deal coming up in a few.
Years, Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going to clear out a bit of
a bit of market. Yeah, it's kind of clear out a
bit of the market, but yeah, it's, I don't know the exact
thing, but it was quite high like the the age group.
And I don't know if that's sort of coming like the new training
(25:02):
that all happened during the theboomer, whether that's come
through yet or not, but I, I don't.
Think so I think I mean morally I'm not sure but it you know if
all your competition starts dying, it's got to be great for
best that's that start selling coffins on the side I.
Think, I think that I think thatthat if I've talked to a few
(25:26):
older guys that work around my area and when that new rig
change finally comes in, I thinkthat that's when they'll be
saying OK, you know, I'm to hangup the.
Can't have a driving license anymore.
See you later. Yeah.
Yeah. Because it's it.
It's a funny old thing. Yeah.
(25:46):
Because you go through these tough times.
And I think the one good thing is, and I think we're all guilty
of it, sometimes when times are good, you can get a bit slack on
how you run your business because you're going to make
money anyway. And these times tend to sharpen
everyone up and make you a better operator, which is good
(26:06):
for the industry in a long run as long as we can escape this
race to the bottom shit that's going on.
Yeah, yeah, this seems to be thenot be I had same guy doing beat
beat his quotes by 15%. So we're not might attend in
Bunnings here, mate, You know what I mean.
Like or it's happened before as well.
(26:31):
Go around and do a quote and then go around and actually see
the job, do a quote, proper quote, send it off and then you
chase them up and say, oh, what happened?
You know, if we got the job or haven't heard from you.
Yeah, another guy came in. And did it 5 bucks cheaper.
Did it 10 bucks cheaper or something?
You know, Did he come out the site?
No. Yeah.
(26:54):
You know, so there was a bit of that going on a little while.
Ago. So it's the old buy, buy high,
sell low method of business. You won't make any money, but
you'll never be out of work. Yeah.
Exactly. So, yeah, I'm hoping that, you
know, if that got trained with with the apprentices coming
(27:16):
through as well, like they learna bit of business in there and
like, you know, this is how muchyou you know, your boss might
charge you out at this, but thisis what you is a really good
calculator online like like what's what's your number or
whatever. Yeah, and it that sounded a bit
weird. Yeah, better.
(27:37):
Yeah, no, we'll turn the lights off after.
This a good idea. Seeking It 50.
Got more than my number my. 50 Shades.
Yeah, 50 Shades of gay. But no, it shows like what?
It's like a calculator that works out, you know?
Yeah, put in the hourly rate of you guys and then it tells you.
The efficiency. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(27:59):
And how much it actually costs. Superior Hour.
Because this, this is not accurate at all.
But I used to tell all my staff that we basically earn a dollar
for us or for the business every$5 because it feels like you
just get taxed every single stepof the way.
Like it's, it's extortion, it's the biggest racket out.
Like it's wild. Yeah, I was saying to my guys,
(28:21):
one of my guys is probably goingto go out on his own and I was
saying it's like a pokey machinepumping, pumping money and
pulling the dial, seeing what comes out.
I want a jetpot. You might do you know, like that
they'll. Break his laptop.
So it's, it's definitely, sometimes it does feel like
that. And, and if you can limit your,
(28:43):
your losses. I mean, the other thing I said
to them was a good one is like client's got ATV and they want
to hang their TV. How much would you charge for
it? Like, oh, get a PowerPoint.
I get this, I get that. And I was like, OK, cool, what's
that 300? I would be like, what's your
insurance excess if you drop that TV?
Yeah, that's my bottom line. That's your minimum.
(29:05):
Charge minimum charge. It's a smart way to think about.
Yeah. So it's things like that that I
guess you pick up on after making those mistakes.
Yeah, I did that for 250 bucks and then I dropped the TV or one
of the guys scratched it and it,you know.
I think you have a very practical way of looking at
things, which raises like, you do things a bit differently in
(29:28):
some areas, which is quite interesting to hear for me
because I'm like, what the fuck is he on about?
And then you explain it. I'm like, that makes a lot of
sense. Yeah, I think just like
limiting, yeah, yeah, yeah. Risk, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Well, it's going to be interesting to see what happens
because, you know, last year, around this time last year, we
(29:50):
saw quite a few businesses, justa couple of them maybe got worse
liquidation. A lot of them, especially older
guys, are just going, I'm not doing this again.
You know, it's not been great. We did it in 2009.
I am not doing it again. And they just wound it up.
A lot of guys got out of the industry, you know.
So I was talking to a mortgage broker yesterday.
(30:11):
Her husband's a builder. He's packed it in and gone and
bought a CrossFit gym. Yeah.
You know, they're just like hating it.
It's tight. It is, and I think like a lot of
a lot of it as well, is that we are sort of giving people free
credit. You know, you sort of go, Oh
yeah, why your house? Here's the thing, not
(30:34):
necessarily get a deposit if it's with a builder or whatever.
And and that cash flow can kill you.
You know, if you've, if you've, if you've got 20 grand on a job
sitting there and then it just, they don't pay you on time or
whatever, it can cost a little. Money.
I'm just recording a podcast. I'll call you back.
Bye. It's all good.
(30:56):
Was that Sid from Blackout? No, he drew back at.
Will that was mailed the missus.Can't see it, but he's got a
blackout shirt. There's a blackout blackout
bottle over there. It's like you're going to put
that on the table just. To wind them up like, you know,
Garth on Wayne's World where he's just full reckon Reebok
need a need a blackout headband.I need to drop some drop some
(31:21):
Denpool electrical merch. Yeah, hook me up some merch,
right, I'll. I'll wreck that all day.
Devon bought electrical undies. Yeah.
But yeah, now it's, it's not alldoom and gloom.
We'll we'll get it. We'll get out of Yeah, yeah.
But I don't think it's going to be quick, but I think when we do
get out of it, it will be. It's going to be these guys.
(31:45):
We're probably going to, yeah. Yeah, with fruitful, quite
fruitful times. A bit more demand, a bit more
demand. And, and I also think I got to
be carefully about generally speaking, anybody who does tell
you like, no, it's going to turnaround at this point or they
know, tend to distrust that because I have spoken to some
(32:06):
like industry experts on the economy and stuff like that.
And they're like, you can't tellyou don't know, you know what I
mean? Anyway, just want to switch
things up a little bit. So there's a few characters in
Devonport I. Characters just.
Just in general living in Devonport.
(32:29):
Oh, definitely. So what I'm getting at is, you
know, any funny yarns? Any funnier?
From like just working in people's houses and shit.
If I can, if I can tell it or ifyou might need to put the fun,
the funniest, the funniest storythat I've got is one time I get
(32:52):
this was a few years ago. I think Blake was even working,
working with me about that time and a Rasmussen.
Rasmussen. Yeah.
And anyway, I get this phone call from this lady, which is
really rude and she was like, I need to my Internet's like
running really slow and I there's a problem with my wiring
and you know, you have to come around straight away.
(33:13):
And this is back in the day withdial up and limits.
So go around there where? It'd take you half an hour to
load up a picture of a nipple, yeah?
Pretty much. And I go, I went around there
and I was tracing all the old copper lines out and I was like,
it goes under the bed there somewhere.
So I pull the beard back, kneel down, go to open up the thing.
I'm like, what the What's that on my leg?
(33:39):
Gross. And I looked down and there's a
flesh light lying there with a, with a, with a bunch of tissues
and things around. I was like gross.
So I like washed my leg off withwhatever was on there and then I
took a bunch of photos and sent it to all my mates and, and I
(34:02):
left and, and I went home. I charged the lady two hours or
something, 2 1/2 hours. And she and she rings me up.
She just gets the bill and she'sreally angry and she's like,
what's you haven't fixed my problem.
It's it's you know what's going on?
And I was like, do you really want to know?
And she's like, yeah, do you really want to know?
So I was like, you go upstairs in the second bedroom and you
(34:25):
pull back the bed, you'll find asexual device.
Device. And I came into contact, went
home, had a shower, and I charged you for that.
And your internet's not working because I think your son or the
gentleman in the in the middle room is using up your, your
amount of data that you've got on your on your plane.
(34:47):
Watching a lot of adult content.Yeah, in 4K.
Yeah, so that was a funny one. And then another one was I said
to AI, said to a client one time, just joking.
He was like, and like, we can come around, you know, you don't
don't need to be there or whatever.
He's like, you're not gonna go through all my drawers, are you?
And I go. We do that on every job.
Due diligence, yeah. And.
(35:07):
I said. I said no, I'm not gonna go
through all your drawers. Just tell me where your wife's
Sunday drawers. So just go through them.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and anyway, I just obviously joking and went around
to do the job and and sure enough as mum's following me
around the whole job. Again, sure, we know.
We know about you. Yeah, on Doc Sniffer.
(35:29):
Yeah, it's really funny things. On the sexual devices side of
things, wasn't me, it was my ownbusiness partner.
I just get this video call of him.
You know, he's like in somebody's bedroom.
Anyway, he's moved the bed out of the way to get to the
PowerPoint next to the bed, you know, an array of wobbly
weapons, etcetera, which is pretty standard, right?
(35:53):
But then he goes because he's silent, and he goes and lifts
the phone up over his shoulders and there's a husband and a wife
at separate desk working behind him.
And he's like, they know they'rethere.
Like they know they're there. Why didn't they move them?
How can they be sat in the same room?
I was like swingers brother. Yeah, they they're they're into
(36:15):
it. Swingers, yeah, it's super into
it. So yeah, we come across a fair
whack of that. Yeah, yeah, now there's some
pretty. There's a lot of deviants out
there's. Definitely a lot of deviants out
there. And they're not all sparkies
either. Nicer.
Than the plumbers, yeah. Plumbers.
The plumbers. Pike go downhill.
Qualified, right? Have you got anything else for
(36:39):
us, mate? I don't know.
Anything impressing? No, not.
Really the thing the, the, the, probably the final thing would
be that I think there's a lot ofchanges happening with BWRB and
licensing and, and stuff like that.
And I think that we all need to start like reading, like when
(37:04):
they say, hey, we want some feedback.
We actually probably do need to give get involved some feedback
because there's been a few odd decisions recently.
They've made them on their own. Oh, yeah, yeah, I, I, yeah.
I, I mean, even, even there was a guy out there, won't name his
(37:24):
name, but he was, he was off outdoing his own wiring and saying,
hey, I'm not going to charge, I'm free or whatever like that.
And a number of us made a complaint to the board about it.
Yeah. Took like a two years for them
to finally get back. And they came back and they
said, oh, yeah, well, here's thefinding.
(37:45):
And I'd read it and I was like, you didn't even show up to
court. They didn't even, they didn't
even send a lawyer to representatives, No
representatives. I don't know quite what
happened. They wouldn't give me a straight
answer. But yeah, there's a lot of lot
of stuff going on that really isworth the time to look at
because it does really impact the industry, the industry.
(38:07):
So if people did want to get involved and they want to look
at what's going on, what like, where do you find it?
They do it in the It'll be in the Gazi notice.
It'll be on their website if it's working, yeah.
If it's, if it's. Just did my refresher and tried
to log in and do the sorry it's the portals doesn't work at the
moment and it looks like it's still not working but.
(38:27):
You'd probably used all your bandwidth mate.
I mean, I've definitely used allmy bandwidth.
Bit bit of bottlenecking. But yeah, I guess just keep an
eye out for that stuff. And I think I talked to Tate
again about it. And I think maybe we start
looking at it as a group and getsome, get some, get some, just
(38:48):
make a more visible way of getting out there.
Because a lot of the time we're we're all so busy and it's hard
enough just running the businessand picking up the kids and
doing this and that and managingstaff or yeah, but you've got to
realise. The importance of it.
Right. Yeah, it is pretty important to
keep on top of that stuff. Cool.
All right, mate. Well, I think we've done done a
(39:10):
fair whack there. We'll wind it up and maybe we'll
catch up in 6 to 12 months and. That'll be good.
Get the update on this year's court cases.
Yeah, I think you know if I findany, any more stuff and are
those awesome? Yeah, you let me know, but
thanks for going on, mate. Pleasure.
No. Worries, man.
(39:30):
Thank you. All right, Cheers.
Cheers. All right, Paul Sievers, great
episode. Yeah.
How do you feel about that one? Good laugh.
Yeah. Good, good mix of some serious
stuff, Yeah. And pulled a few stories out of
him at the end there so. Yeah, he's a bit of an
entrepreneur. I think he's, whenever I have
yarns with him, it just sort of seems like he's never quite
(39:50):
finished. Yeah, you know, he's got plenty
to plenty to think about. Scheming.
Scheming. Yeah.
Yeah. But he sees ideas.
He's a big picture man. Yeah.
And yeah. Sounded like he.
He's still got, you know, lots happening.
Yeah, well, look, it cracks me off as well, like pleasure
having him on. But yeah, he talk talks about
some pretty resonant issues, youknow what I mean?
So, yeah, I think his, his he's got high standards and there's
(40:13):
nothing wrong with that. And I think of our industry
followed that mantra would be ina better place.
Yeah, I think one thing that drives him to tears almost as
just seeing, you know, some of these roughies that go out there
and cut corners. Well, it's personal for him,
isn't it? You know.
Massively personal for him, but that's why he's an inspector,
That's why he's trying to, you know, raise the bar, which is
kind of what we're about, but and that's why he fits in with
(40:33):
us so well. Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, we sort of touchedon some of the AWRB stuff, the
new licensing categories that are going to come out and stuff,
which he's hot on. And as he rightly said, get
involved with that, go to the WRB website, give them some
feedback, all that stuff becausesounds like a bit of a drag, but
we're all in this industry, so. Yeah, they've got some pretty
(40:54):
cool resources and, and The thing is the training standards,
that whole industry's been weirdfor a while.
And even with apprenticeship schemes and stuff like we
investigated that over the last couple of years, it's it's kind
of like the dark arts, you know?And so we're lucky that, you
know, Russell Keys, who's the who's the chairman of EWIB is,
is, is also an electrical business owner.
(41:17):
So he kind of knows how it rollsout there.
So I think like minded people like that are starting to come
out of the woodwork to sort of make sure we're making positive
change in the industry. The good thing from a trade
group perspective, obviously where we are is that working
alongside those industry bodies hopefully will provide solid,
you know, best practice and we can reinforce and help Paul on
(41:37):
his mission. Totally.
We, we've scooped up a lot of feedback ourselves which we can
pass on, you know, which is pretty hopefully invaluable to
him, you know? Yeah, so well done.
I think there was a there was a pillar.
Yeah, bloody good. We'll do it again with them.
But yeah, I think other than that, stay safe out there, keep
puzzling, and we'll see you nextweek for another go.
(41:57):
You next time. Cheers.
Hi, I'm Paul Stevens, real enthusiast of this book that
we've got here and I'm locked away here at NZ Trade Group
headquarters. I'm from Dimple Electrical and I
can thoroughly recommend this book.
Hey mate, welcome to the puzzle Hatred.
(00:25):
Thanks. Very much thanks bro.
What do? You have to welcome.
Thanks, Ben. I've been here a few.
Yeah, can we not? I'm enjoying it.
What's? The other thing that you say?
Oh well. Starting to get some traction on
that thing now. To episode 7.
Hey, we're starting to know whatwe're doing again.
(00:46):
Like man, it's episode 7. It's episode 7.
The viewers may notice that we're actually in a a different
room. Yeah, it's making all the
difference. We're clearly getting better at
this. No fucking viewers.
So no fucking clue. So.
It's another black room. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, I think this one's got a lotof.
Character. It still looks like the fucking.
(01:07):
Thing about this room is you canhear people going in the toilet.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it wasn't me, by the way.
That was Austin Ozzy. Yeah, OK.
But yeah, that still looks like a hostage video, depending on
which angle you're looking at. But hey, I'm happy. 100% So yes,
as we were saying episode 7, we have moved studios.
We were going to save this for season 2, but we all got Santosh
(01:30):
excited massively yesterday so Ilike it.
Oh, me, too. And I, and I think it's our own
little personal space. Yeah.
We've got master of ceremonies in the corner over there.
Haley, DJ Hales. DJ Hales on the decks.
Yeah. And so, yeah, big job yesterday
getting everything in here. But this will be home for for a
(01:52):
while now I hope. Yeah, totally man, it's a lot
better. So today we've got a OG member
on Paul Severs Water Rooster. Awesome.
Mirror of Davenport, definitely been around for ages already
been referenced a couple of times on a couple of episodes
already. Yeah, yeah, only because he's
he's been such an influencer, very passionate about our
(02:12):
industry, very passionate about standards.
Yeah. And yeah, loves what he does.
Yeah, well, he's taught a lot ofpeople a lot of things, you
know, so he's a, he's a cracker.Like, he's a real funny guy, but
he's super smart, super knowledgeable.
Yeah, created. Dean's a trade group, didn't he?
Yeah, another one. Another one it.
Was stolen from him stolen. Yeah, him and Haitian should
start, start, sign a precision. Well, you know, they're Matt.
(02:35):
Hey. What creating trade group?
No, they were just about to havea scrap over a builder.
Oh, perfect. And they got put together and
like sorted out and then they came out.
They were really good mates. Oh good.
Well, I hope he talks a little bit about that.
So anyway, yeah, pleasure to have him into the building.
We haven't seen him in a while and I'm pretty sure he would
have had some pretty decent yarns, right?
(02:56):
Yeah, it's a goodie. So let's go.
Let's get him on. Awesome.
Cheers Paul Savers. Good day mate, how are you?
Good. Welcome to the Puzzle Factory.
Yeah, it's pretty good. I like being in the new studio.
Yeah, well, yeah. Craig didn't get the new studio
there, did he? Well, we've got a bit of a
hierarchy, you know, Number one doesn't mean everything.
(03:21):
I'll get a phone call about this.
Yeah. Hey, bro.
Yeah. So we had a pretty manic day
yesterday because we managed to sort of negotiate a new room in
our offices. Yeah, that's awesome.
So we'll, I will start building it yesterday.
So sort of put up the panel and we got the curtains up and then
we got too excited and fucking dragged everything in there.
(03:42):
Yeah. And got set up.
So. Yeah.
First one in the new studio, mate.
Cool. Yeah.
All right. So you know, we've known each
other a while now, mate, and you've sort of been dealing with
the trade group for a long time now.
Yeah. So get what's the back story,
mate? Tell us who you are, what you
do, all that jazz. Yeah, Paul from Dimpool
(04:02):
Electrical, we mainly operate onthe North Shore, but mainly in
Dimport, in the electrician for a long time now.
Shit or not. Well, I'm glad you said that,
but yeah, no, that started out and wanted to get into the trade
because I lost my father to electrical incident and wanted
(04:26):
to know more. So I did the natural thing and
went all the way and figured outwhat happened and, and and did
it like that. So that's what kind of got me
into it. And then been trying to enjoy it
for for a number of years. You have your ups and you have
your. Downs It's not all.
Bad, mate. It's a good, it's a good trade
to give it to, yeah. No, it is.
It is. And I think it out of all the
(04:47):
trades, it opens up a lot of doors for you.
It does if you want to go that way, you know.
Yeah, yeah. So, so now it's been good.
And then we didn't did my inspectors exams and stuff about
five years ago. So yeah, electrical inspector
now, which is a little. Buttoned up my because yeah,
coming back to what you were saying, you know anybody
(05:09):
watching this who knows you theyknow if they driving to fucking
Devon Paul they're getting a phone call.
Mike, who the fuck are? You and.
What are you doing in my? Area.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly that it's it's quite hard to get in
to the air because it's, you know, the the traffic is
horrible. So I was living there and I was
(05:31):
like, why? Why am I travelling all over
Auckland? It's going to take me 40 minutes
to get in and out of my own own area.
So I just settled and just went stuff it.
I'll I'll start up down here. Yeah.
And totally honestly, going backto that and carving out your
area, obviously we had Seb on the other day.
(05:53):
There's a few others who've really taken that from you.
Copied copied my. Yeah, they basically ripped you
off. Yeah, it's fine.
I don't. I don't mind.
It's a good. It's a good business strategy,
saves on a lot of travel time and downtime, and you can often
get way more jobs in a day if you're not got you guys sitting
(06:14):
in a van on the on the motorway or the limo in the car park, you
know? So, yeah, that's good.
It's worked really well. Yeah, man, because you're quite
the household name in Devonport.I like we we kind of refer to
you as the mayor of Devonport a lot of the time.
Yeah, being called that, but that I don't know if that's
something I'm proud of, but yeah, it's definitely, it's
(06:38):
definitely a cool place. I grew up there.
I love it. And and to work in the area that
you that you love is is was awesome.
Yeah. It makes it a bit high going to
the supermarket sometimes but you run into people and you're
like business name. You don't know whether it's your
kids, mates, friend or yeah or if it's a client or anything.
Small town syndrome. I don't shop at the local
(06:59):
supermarket. Go go to take a Pono.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice.
Now the because my partner's family are all kind of in the
Devonport area and that so obviously went for dinner last
night and I was telling them youwere on.
Sweet. And father in law's going.
He's not the mayor of Devonport.I am.
Shout out to Greg. Yeah, crack up.
(07:23):
So what's been happening, mate? What's what's been going on in
the industry? What's been going on in business
for you recently? I think it's the same as as
everyone else. It's been a bit bit quiet out
there, Few factors with that. But I, I think everyone's in the
same boat and we've been quite lucky because we've been going
(07:43):
for a number of years that we can just sort of, we've got lots
of repeat customers and stuff like that and we've.
Brand itself? Kind of, yeah.
We've been quite good with yeah,with that kind of thing, so it's
not been too bad. I can always tell it's quiet
because we see about 20 more trucks coming into Devonport
(08:04):
than we what we normally would because most times people can't
be bothered going there. So yeah, they'll turn the job
down, but at the moment we're seeing a lot of a lot more
competition. Yeah.
I mean, Devonport is great once you're there, yeah.
Once you're there, it's great. If I was ever working in Devil
back in the day, I, I, I wouldn't go without an
apprentice and then on the way home I'd go buy a six pack.
(08:26):
And try and. Drink it while you sat on Lake
Rd. Yeah, it's yeah, the only way to
do it. Yeah, no, that is actually the
only way to do it. Yeah, yeah.
So we're having a a bit of a yarn just before we sort of
pressed go on the on the recording you had some stuff to
say about apprentices, I believeapprentices training.
(08:51):
Yes, it's kind of funny. I think that we're one of the
only businesses or, or trades and still in existence that that
pay to train our own guys. And it's, it's quite hard
because you, you're often training the guy that's going to
be your next competition. So finish your trade.
(09:13):
I'm going to go out of my own pay.
I like what my boss did Dimpol. It's called 2 point O down the
road. And hey, he's going to do it for
Tim Bucks cheaper now and you know, do it.
But it's also quite interesting.Like I've come across things in
the past with like the role of that being the boss and in
(09:37):
charge of someone's apprenticeship.
And I think some stuff needs to change, like for example, if you
know you've had an employment dispute with you apprentice, are
you his boss? Are you his trainer?
Are you his? Yeah, what's your?
Actual role, so you've got like 3 different hats that you're
wearing and I think that's the situation where the lines can
(09:59):
become a bit blurred. So for example, if the guy is
failing on his on his tick or he's not showing up to tick,
tell him off. You might have a personal
grievance on your hands. So I think it'll be good if at
some point there was sort of that sort of a bit more
legislation around what that role kind of looks like.
(10:20):
Because I can see it's, I mean, it's, it's happened to me that
thing like, oh, if you, I've hademployment lawyers rang me and
going, hey, can you, if you signhim off to the first year, he's
happy to leave you, you know, like, like that kind of thing.
And, and using that as a bit of a battering tool, which I, I
didn't think was good. And it shouldn't, it shouldn't
(10:42):
happen. So I didn't do it, But I, I
wound up with a, with a, you know, another court case.
Well, we know you neither lost one.
Court coach your hobby mate, we know.
That so it's I won't settle you.Should've been a bloody lawyer
mate. No, I I think if, if something's
wrong, it's it's and it's inherently wrong, you should
(11:05):
fight for it. On principle.
On principle, yeah. Yeah, which brings me to the the
other one in regards to someone using our name recently.
Just just before we get to that,just going back to The
Apprentice thing, yeah. And the apprenticeship scheme
and how the training works, that's also something that I
(11:28):
feel quite strongly about. I've been a supervisor for a
bunch of apprentices. I only finished my
apprenticeship in New Zealand. I did most of it in the UK.
And the biggest problem I say isthere's no clear road map.
No. In the apprenticeships game it's
almost like you've got to interpret it and get the right
amount of credits and there should be a clear road map.
(11:51):
Yeah, I think the, I mean even recently, like the, the, the,
the apprenticeship thing's been in, in freefall for the last two
to three years, pretty much since COVID and someone tried to
go in and, and change it and they've changed it for the
worse. And then we've had skills,
(12:13):
skills sold and, and God knows who owns it now.
And like my guy, my, I've got 1 apprentice at the moment, Monty,
who's very good, but he, he started getting charged.
He's supposed to be on, he's straight out of school and he
got charged for like, I don't know, almost six, six months
(12:34):
coming out of his, out of his wages.
And I don't think he's got the money back yet, you know, And
then on Friday, last Friday, I got an e-mail saying are you
we've overcharged your GST or something?
Or some other members might havegot the same e-mail.
And then they were like, oh, wait, sorry, we sent that by
mistake. And it's just so Mickey Mouse.
Yeah, so am I getting. I was so confused by the end of
(12:56):
it and. Am I getting money or do I owe
you money? Well, whose money?
Whose gets the money if there ismoney like so, yeah, No, I
don't. I don't know what to do.
I think the the need to have apprentices is there.
I think there needs to be some sort of some clearer guidelines
(13:16):
and. Needs a redesign.
Redesign, Yeah, to bring it back.
I mean, it's a 1950s system and we're still trying to use it,
you know? And, and, and as, as we sort of
said, you know, in the last fiveyears, every six months, it
seems like there's been a bit ofa different organization running
the training, which means that you're dealing with somebody
new. So normally the organization
(13:38):
changes, and then about six months later, the person who's
looking after your apprentices gets in touch.
And then by the time you actually want to go back to him
for something, they've gone. Yeah.
And then you've got to try and track down who else.
And then they send you a bell and you're like, what the fuck
is that for? And then you just go fuck it.
Yeah, we argued. We got like a when when it was
(13:59):
all changing over, we got a, a pretty big bill to say, hey,
you've got to pay for this. And we're like, what?
What have you done? We haven't seen anyone for a
year. We haven't got.
Do you want to go to court, motherfucker?
But no they. Or frame me for murder.
But now they, yeah, so it is, itis a bit unfair and it's a it's
(14:23):
not good for the employer, it's not good for The Apprentice and
it's kind of turned into a bit of a, a guess of money making
thing. Yeah, I think it's definitely.
Revenue dollars, yeah. Revenue driven, I yeah, Anyway,
I rudely badged my way in. There we were.
We were sort of moving on to something else you've been
through this year. Yeah.
(14:43):
The other thing was we had obviously times we ended last
year, yeah, last year really funend of the year.
But we had another company who has actually worked for me for a
brief time and started up importelectrical 2.0 and with things
getting a bit quieter he decidedto basically got some bad advice
(15:09):
and thought, hey, I can use Devenport Electrical in my brand
name because hey, Devenport's anarea.
So this is like a search term onhis Google Google.
Yeah, all that. Keywords.
Essentially keywords, Yeah. Yeah.
So anyway, we wrote him a nice letter explaining that we
weren't very happy about it, andhe came back with a chat.
(15:32):
GDP response didn't seek legal advice and and we basically said
take it down because it's there's different sets of rules,
right? There's Google's terms of of
trade, which is like you can, you can use those place names,
but the actual over ruling law is New Zealand law, law of the
(15:57):
land, right? You can.
Google says you can basically dowhat you want, but there is
still those advertising laws andstandards still exists.
I, I, I just think that's very interesting because when I was
in business, Google, SEO, socialmedia wasn't something we drove
(16:17):
for leads, probably just becausewe were more contract than
service based kind of thing. But I get a lot of people
calling me up now going how do Idrive business through Google,
you know, should I be playing, paying for digital marketing?
What keyword should I use? Is it area specific?
All these things. So it's just very interesting
(16:39):
because you going through that was the first time I'd heard of
it. Yeah.
So it's quite an important message to people out there to
maybe just check out the lore ofthe land before you start
hanging your keywords in. Yeah.
The other thing is as well as I think these like I know my
phone's been ringing pretty hot with people digital marketers
(17:00):
ringing at the moment going oh, you could spend this so you
could. So what they do is they ring
you, cold call you whatever signup to our our really good
marketing plan and but. It but it'll take at least six
months before you get any leads.Six months before you get any
leads and and hey, look, you're competed as spinning this, so
(17:20):
you kind of you kind of want to get them off the phone.
So you're like, yeah, cool, signme out whatever.
And what they do, they're like, we're just going to design this
just for you. It's just for your business and
we're going to work really closely with you.
And what they do is when they ring the next Sparky down the
road and sell them the same story.
Yeah. So if the spins going up,
they're making more money because that you've got now
(17:42):
you've got 2 businesses competing against each other.
So the the AdWords go up. I think the last time I looked
at Google Adwords, I don't know what Auckland electrician was
going but it's something stupid like $45.00 A.
Click Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's like you got to
you got to do a lot of jobs to get to get those.
Yeah, but you can just do Googleads yourself.
(18:03):
Yeah, like you can just downloadthe app and and away you.
Go away. Just to clarify with the digital
marketing thing, they're not allbad.
We're not saying that. I did a bit of research.
On this. No, no, no, I, I actually did a
bit of research on this. So we had a digital marketing
company who was ringing all the members of trade groups and
(18:26):
we've done a deal, we've done a partnership.
So everyone's ringing me going, is this legit?
Like have you done a deal with them?
A couple of them had signed up and I'm like, never heard of
them before. So I ended up getting this
lady's number and I Ranga and I'm like, right now what?
What's going on here, then? Yeah, I've not said that.
I've. I've never said that.
(18:48):
I was like, come on. Yeah, I've.
Anyway, she slept up and sent a text and I got hold of it.
So I rang her back. God bless her, right?
She was absolutely trying it on.But anyway, I go.
You need to stop or else I'm going to give you a cease and
desist. Yeah.
Anyway, she goes, well, you've not started this relationship
(19:10):
off very well, have you? Should we meet up for lunch and
see if we can work together? And I was like, no, thanks, but
good on you. Good try.
Yeah, yeah. So my my advice with digital
marketing is it's a big hot thing at the minute.
Do your research because there'ssome great outfits out there and
probably maybe you get a referral from somebody who's
(19:30):
used them. I.
Think so, yeah. I think that's the way to go
with that one. I Yeah, yeah.
For me, I think there is a need for that as well, but also just
to protect your own brand by having something there so that
you are still up at the top. If someone searches your name,
it still pops up. Because at very least your
online presence is portfolio, people can say that you're
(19:54):
legit. They can say you know past
projects that you've done, what kind of work you do, and you
know as soon as you put a quote in for a job.
As soon as you put in even a tender for a commercial job,
they're still going to go and look at it.
So if you've at least got some testimonials and a bit of
portfolio on that exactly, you know, and you can take that as
(20:15):
far as you want. You can be all the way up to
where your websites, the, you know, the main driving force in
your business. That's where all your incoming
leads are coming from. And it's, you know, the way you
run. Exactly.
Yeah, it's definitely needed these days, but I think a lot of
people out there are still sort of learning what it's all about.
I think if you don't, it's kind of one of those things that I
(20:35):
mean, we do, we have so many hats being a business owner.
Yeah. It's like one of those things
you're like, great, I can outsource it.
How much money do you want? Cool.
Yeah. See you later.
See you later. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, I think I think, yeah, you're right.
Do your research and and figure it.
Out same with anything to some extent, but I think that is a
particularly tricky 1, you know,because yeah, they they love
(20:56):
playing that game. Oh, you won't see any leads for
the first five years, but keep, you know, just pairs, 100 grand
and then you might get a call. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
So obviously we've, we have spoken about this a bit on the
podcast recently, but it's pretty poignant at the minute.
How's the last year or so been with the market sort of being
(21:17):
dodgy and all the rest of it? How, what, what are you, what's
your, you know, tips for survival and stuff like that in
the hard times? I've noticed.
I mean, we just take everything.Even so, just don't turn any job
down. We just.
Haven't turned anything down. OK, Yep, we can do that.
Yep, Yep, Yep. It's been hard for the staff
(21:41):
because they're used to doing a certain quality or certain type
of job. And it's also been like, I've
noticed that the, the customers want stuff right now that
they'll ring and they're like, well, I had a phone call this
morning and it's like, can you wire my spa?
Yeah. And I was like, we can do it
Monday. Yeah, OK, cool.
(22:02):
And then cause I've got Takapunaelectrical, different phone
number. She rings that she's like,
answer that phone. She's like, can you do the spa?
I was like, I can do it Monday. So you can both go in, are you?
Yeah, so. Dimport and tech for an
electrical guy in there. Oh, you can have.
A little spa party mate, a bit of a pina colada in there.
Get your boxes on. Yeah.
So I, I think we managed to to squeeze it in at the end of the
(22:24):
day, but it was, it was, it is like that.
And that will just ring the nextguy on the list and the next guy
down the list will do the job. Yeah, because he doesn't have
any work or doesn't have much work.
So it's that. Rapid, good service.
Good service quick, you know, get in there, get the job done.
Yeah, I've, I've noticed with usin terms of like our smaller
(22:48):
jobs getting the the payment time is getting longer and
longer, but I and I just think that they no one's got any
money, right. So it's, it's, yeah, it wasn't
best year for us last year and had a big legal bill at the end
of it, at the end of it as well.So the lawyers had a good year
(23:10):
last year. But that yeah, it was, I think
that's what it I think. I think it's more about that
there's just not the money out there anymore to do those little
jobs. It's going to be interesting
when we come back out of this because I've seen a lot of guys
going to Australia, for example.Yeah, I had two of my guys go to
(23:34):
Australia. They're having a great time.
Then we just found a design floor with the new studio.
That was sadly. Just hear everyone going to the
shit to the next. Door.
Hey Tate, we can hear you. We've built the studio in the
shits of a. We could put some put some more
soundproofing on there. Yeah, we might have to, might
(23:56):
have to do a bit of a decoupling, get some, get some
noise line in there. Sorry about.
It gets some egg crates. And stick it on the wall.
Yeah. Bucket L, Yeah.
It's going to be funny when we come back.
I think there's going to be a lot less of us.
We got a really ageing population of electricians too,
(24:17):
I think. Yeah.
Like I think what was it, the board stopped putting that out,
but I think it was 65% of electricians were over the age
of 60. No way.
Yeah, so it was in AI. Don't know what the latest one
is, but really interesting reading.
Yeah, they had like a little graph.
(24:38):
I've posted it online a couple of times trying to go to the
guys. Hey, look at this week.
We, yeah, we got a got a good deal coming up in a few.
Years, Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going to clear out a bit of
a bit of market. Yeah, it's kind of clear out a
bit of the market, but yeah, it's, I don't know the exact
thing, but it was quite high like the the age group.
And I don't know if that's sort of coming like the new training
(25:02):
that all happened during the theboomer, whether that's come
through yet or not, but I, I don't.
Think so I think I mean morally I'm not sure but it you know if
all your competition starts dying, it's got to be great for
best that's that start selling coffins on the side I.
Think, I think that I think thatthat if I've talked to a few
(25:26):
older guys that work around my area and when that new rig
change finally comes in, I thinkthat that's when they'll be
saying OK, you know, I'm to hangup the.
Can't have a driving license anymore.
See you later. Yeah.
Yeah. Because it's it.
It's a funny old thing. Yeah.
(25:46):
Because you go through these tough times.
And I think the one good thing is, and I think we're all guilty
of it, sometimes when times are good, you can get a bit slack on
how you run your business because you're going to make
money anyway. And these times tend to sharpen
everyone up and make you a better operator, which is good
(26:06):
for the industry in a long run as long as we can escape this
race to the bottom shit that's going on.
Yeah, yeah, this seems to be thenot be I had same guy doing beat
beat his quotes by 15%. So we're not might attend in
Bunnings here, mate, You know what I mean.
Like or it's happened before as well.
(26:31):
Go around and do a quote and then go around and actually see
the job, do a quote, proper quote, send it off and then you
chase them up and say, oh, what happened?
You know, if we got the job or haven't heard from you.
Yeah, another guy came in. And did it 5 bucks cheaper.
Did it 10 bucks cheaper or something?
You know, Did he come out the site?
No. Yeah.
(26:54):
You know, so there was a bit of that going on a little while.
Ago. So it's the old buy, buy high,
sell low method of business. You won't make any money, but
you'll never be out of work. Yeah.
Exactly. So, yeah, I'm hoping that, you
know, if that got trained with with the apprentices coming
(27:16):
through as well, like they learna bit of business in there and
like, you know, this is how muchyou you know, your boss might
charge you out at this, but thisis what you is a really good
calculator online like like what's what's your number or
whatever. Yeah, and it that sounded a bit
weird. Yeah, better.
(27:37):
Yeah, no, we'll turn the lights off after.
This a good idea. Seeking It 50.
Got more than my number my. 50 Shades.
Yeah, 50 Shades of gay. But no, it shows like what?
It's like a calculator that works out, you know?
Yeah, put in the hourly rate of you guys and then it tells you.
The efficiency. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(27:59):
And how much it actually costs. Superior Hour.
Because this, this is not accurate at all.
But I used to tell all my staff that we basically earn a dollar
for us or for the business every$5 because it feels like you
just get taxed every single stepof the way.
Like it's, it's extortion, it's the biggest racket out.
Like it's wild. Yeah, I was saying to my guys,
(28:21):
one of my guys is probably goingto go out on his own and I was
saying it's like a pokey machinepumping, pumping money and
pulling the dial, seeing what comes out.
I want a jetpot. You might do you know, like that
they'll. Break his laptop.
So it's, it's definitely, sometimes it does feel like
that. And, and if you can limit your,
(28:43):
your losses. I mean, the other thing I said
to them was a good one is like client's got ATV and they want
to hang their TV. How much would you charge for
it? Like, oh, get a PowerPoint.
I get this, I get that. And I was like, OK, cool, what's
that 300? I would be like, what's your
insurance excess if you drop that TV?
Yeah, that's my bottom line. That's your minimum.
(29:05):
Charge minimum charge. It's a smart way to think about.
Yeah. So it's things like that that I
guess you pick up on after making those mistakes.
Yeah, I did that for 250 bucks and then I dropped the TV or one
of the guys scratched it and it,you know.
I think you have a very practical way of looking at
things, which raises like, you do things a bit differently in
(29:28):
some areas, which is quite interesting to hear for me
because I'm like, what the fuck is he on about?
And then you explain it. I'm like, that makes a lot of
sense. Yeah, I think just like
limiting, yeah, yeah, yeah. Risk, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Well, it's going to be interesting to see what happens
because, you know, last year, around this time last year, we
(29:50):
saw quite a few businesses, justa couple of them maybe got worse
liquidation. A lot of them, especially older
guys, are just going, I'm not doing this again.
You know, it's not been great. We did it in 2009.
I am not doing it again. And they just wound it up.
A lot of guys got out of the industry, you know.
So I was talking to a mortgage broker yesterday.
(30:11):
Her husband's a builder. He's packed it in and gone and
bought a CrossFit gym. Yeah.
You know, they're just like hating it.
It's tight. It is, and I think like a lot of
a lot of it as well, is that we are sort of giving people free
credit. You know, you sort of go, Oh
yeah, why your house? Here's the thing, not
(30:34):
necessarily get a deposit if it's with a builder or whatever.
And and that cash flow can kill you.
You know, if you've, if you've, if you've got 20 grand on a job
sitting there and then it just, they don't pay you on time or
whatever, it can cost a little. Money.
I'm just recording a podcast. I'll call you back.
Bye. It's all good.
(30:56):
Was that Sid from Blackout? No, he drew back at.
Will that was mailed the missus.Can't see it, but he's got a
blackout shirt. There's a blackout blackout
bottle over there. It's like you're going to put
that on the table just. To wind them up like, you know,
Garth on Wayne's World where he's just full reckon Reebok
need a need a blackout headband.I need to drop some drop some
(31:21):
Denpool electrical merch. Yeah, hook me up some merch,
right, I'll. I'll wreck that all day.
Devon bought electrical undies. Yeah.
But yeah, now it's, it's not alldoom and gloom.
We'll we'll get it. We'll get out of Yeah, yeah.
But I don't think it's going to be quick, but I think when we do
get out of it, it will be. It's going to be these guys.
(31:45):
We're probably going to, yeah. Yeah, with fruitful, quite
fruitful times. A bit more demand, a bit more
demand. And, and I also think I got to
be carefully about generally speaking, anybody who does tell
you like, no, it's going to turnaround at this point or they
know, tend to distrust that because I have spoken to some
(32:06):
like industry experts on the economy and stuff like that.
And they're like, you can't tellyou don't know, you know what I
mean? Anyway, just want to switch
things up a little bit. So there's a few characters in
Devonport I. Characters just.
Just in general living in Devonport.
(32:29):
Oh, definitely. So what I'm getting at is, you
know, any funny yarns? Any funnier?
From like just working in people's houses and shit.
If I can, if I can tell it or ifyou might need to put the fun,
the funniest, the funniest storythat I've got is one time I get
(32:52):
this was a few years ago. I think Blake was even working,
working with me about that time and a Rasmussen.
Rasmussen. Yeah.
And anyway, I get this phone call from this lady, which is
really rude and she was like, I need to my Internet's like
running really slow and I there's a problem with my wiring
and you know, you have to come around straight away.
(33:13):
And this is back in the day withdial up and limits.
So go around there where? It'd take you half an hour to
load up a picture of a nipple, yeah?
Pretty much. And I go, I went around there
and I was tracing all the old copper lines out and I was like,
it goes under the bed there somewhere.
So I pull the beard back, kneel down, go to open up the thing.
I'm like, what the What's that on my leg?
(33:39):
Gross. And I looked down and there's a
flesh light lying there with a, with a, with a bunch of tissues
and things around. I was like gross.
So I like washed my leg off withwhatever was on there and then I
took a bunch of photos and sent it to all my mates and, and I
(34:02):
left and, and I went home. I charged the lady two hours or
something, 2 1/2 hours. And she and she rings me up.
She just gets the bill and she'sreally angry and she's like,
what's you haven't fixed my problem.
It's it's you know what's going on?
And I was like, do you really want to know?
And she's like, yeah, do you really want to know?
So I was like, you go upstairs in the second bedroom and you
(34:25):
pull back the bed, you'll find asexual device.
Device. And I came into contact, went
home, had a shower, and I charged you for that.
And your internet's not working because I think your son or the
gentleman in the in the middle room is using up your, your
amount of data that you've got on your on your plane.
(34:47):
Watching a lot of adult content.Yeah, in 4K.
Yeah, so that was a funny one. And then another one was I said
to AI, said to a client one time, just joking.
He was like, and like, we can come around, you know, you don't
don't need to be there or whatever.
He's like, you're not gonna go through all my drawers, are you?
And I go. We do that on every job.
Due diligence, yeah. And.
(35:07):
I said. I said no, I'm not gonna go
through all your drawers. Just tell me where your wife's
Sunday drawers. So just go through them.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and anyway, I just obviously joking and went around
to do the job and and sure enough as mum's following me
around the whole job. Again, sure, we know.
We know about you. Yeah, on Doc Sniffer.
(35:29):
Yeah, it's really funny things. On the sexual devices side of
things, wasn't me, it was my ownbusiness partner.
I just get this video call of him.
You know, he's like in somebody's bedroom.
Anyway, he's moved the bed out of the way to get to the
PowerPoint next to the bed, you know, an array of wobbly
weapons, etcetera, which is pretty standard, right?
(35:53):
But then he goes because he's silent, and he goes and lifts
the phone up over his shoulders and there's a husband and a wife
at separate desk working behind him.
And he's like, they know they'rethere.
Like they know they're there. Why didn't they move them?
How can they be sat in the same room?
I was like swingers brother. Yeah, they they're they're into
(36:15):
it. Swingers, yeah, it's super into
it. So yeah, we come across a fair
whack of that. Yeah, yeah, now there's some
pretty. There's a lot of deviants out
there's. Definitely a lot of deviants out
there. And they're not all sparkies
either. Nicer.
Than the plumbers, yeah. Plumbers.
The plumbers. Pike go downhill.
Qualified, right? Have you got anything else for
(36:39):
us, mate? I don't know.
Anything impressing? No, not.
Really the thing the, the, the, probably the final thing would
be that I think there's a lot ofchanges happening with BWRB and
licensing and, and stuff like that.
And I think that we all need to start like reading, like when
(37:04):
they say, hey, we want some feedback.
We actually probably do need to give get involved some feedback
because there's been a few odd decisions recently.
They've made them on their own. Oh, yeah, yeah, I, I, yeah.
I, I mean, even, even there was a guy out there, won't name his
(37:24):
name, but he was, he was off outdoing his own wiring and saying,
hey, I'm not going to charge, I'm free or whatever like that.
And a number of us made a complaint to the board about it.
Yeah. Took like a two years for them
to finally get back. And they came back and they
said, oh, yeah, well, here's thefinding.
(37:45):
And I'd read it and I was like, you didn't even show up to
court. They didn't even, they didn't
even send a lawyer to representatives, No
representatives. I don't know quite what
happened. They wouldn't give me a straight
answer. But yeah, there's a lot of lot
of stuff going on that really isworth the time to look at
because it does really impact the industry, the industry.
(38:07):
So if people did want to get involved and they want to look
at what's going on, what like, where do you find it?
They do it in the It'll be in the Gazi notice.
It'll be on their website if it's working, yeah.
If it's, if it's. Just did my refresher and tried
to log in and do the sorry it's the portals doesn't work at the
moment and it looks like it's still not working but.
(38:27):
You'd probably used all your bandwidth mate.
I mean, I've definitely used allmy bandwidth.
Bit bit of bottlenecking. But yeah, I guess just keep an
eye out for that stuff. And I think I talked to Tate
again about it. And I think maybe we start
looking at it as a group and getsome, get some, get some, just
(38:48):
make a more visible way of getting out there.
Because a lot of the time we're we're all so busy and it's hard
enough just running the businessand picking up the kids and
doing this and that and managingstaff or yeah, but you've got to
realise. The importance of it.
Right. Yeah, it is pretty important to
keep on top of that stuff. Cool.
All right, mate. Well, I think we've done done a
(39:10):
fair whack there. We'll wind it up and maybe we'll
catch up in 6 to 12 months and. That'll be good.
Get the update on this year's court cases.
Yeah, I think you know if I findany, any more stuff and are
those awesome? Yeah, you let me know, but
thanks for going on, mate. Pleasure.
No. Worries, man.
(39:30):
Thank you. All right, Cheers.
Cheers. All right, Paul Sievers, great
episode. Yeah.
How do you feel about that one? Good laugh.
Yeah. Good, good mix of some serious
stuff, Yeah. And pulled a few stories out of
him at the end there so. Yeah, he's a bit of an
entrepreneur. I think he's, whenever I have
yarns with him, it just sort of seems like he's never quite
(39:50):
finished. Yeah, you know, he's got plenty
to plenty to think about. Scheming.
Scheming. Yeah.
Yeah. But he sees ideas.
He's a big picture man. Yeah.
And yeah. Sounded like he.
He's still got, you know, lots happening.
Yeah, well, look, it cracks me off as well, like pleasure
having him on. But yeah, he talk talks about
some pretty resonant issues, youknow what I mean?
So, yeah, I think his, his he's got high standards and there's
(40:13):
nothing wrong with that. And I think of our industry
followed that mantra would be ina better place.
Yeah, I think one thing that drives him to tears almost as
just seeing, you know, some of these roughies that go out there
and cut corners. Well, it's personal for him,
isn't it? You know.
Massively personal for him, but that's why he's an inspector,
That's why he's trying to, you know, raise the bar, which is
kind of what we're about, but and that's why he fits in with
(40:33):
us so well. Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, we sort of touchedon some of the AWRB stuff, the
new licensing categories that are going to come out and stuff,
which he's hot on. And as he rightly said, get
involved with that, go to the WRB website, give them some
feedback, all that stuff becausesounds like a bit of a drag, but
we're all in this industry, so. Yeah, they've got some pretty
(40:54):
cool resources and, and The thing is the training standards,
that whole industry's been weirdfor a while.
And even with apprenticeship schemes and stuff like we
investigated that over the last couple of years, it's it's kind
of like the dark arts, you know?And so we're lucky that, you
know, Russell Keys, who's the who's the chairman of EWIB is,
is, is also an electrical business owner.
(41:17):
So he kind of knows how it rollsout there.
So I think like minded people like that are starting to come
out of the woodwork to sort of make sure we're making positive
change in the industry. The good thing from a trade
group perspective, obviously where we are is that working
alongside those industry bodies hopefully will provide solid,
you know, best practice and we can reinforce and help Paul on
(41:37):
his mission. Totally.
We, we've scooped up a lot of feedback ourselves which we can
pass on, you know, which is pretty hopefully invaluable to
him, you know? Yeah, so well done.
I think there was a there was a pillar.
Yeah, bloody good. We'll do it again with them.
But yeah, I think other than that, stay safe out there, keep
puzzling, and we'll see you nextweek for another go.
(41:57):
You next time. Cheers.
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