QQ&A Ep6 Intersections

Today, we delve into the intricate layers of identity and how they intertwine to shape our experiences. From race and ethnicity to gender and faith, join us as we explore the nuanced intersections that define who we are

 

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Episode Transcript

Unknown (00:01):
Welcome to episode six of qqa. Disclaimer. This project was produced by ethnic Rainbow Alliance with support from foundation north. The series includes conversations with guests sharing their lived experience, and the listeners are advised to take care. Welcome to episode six of our

(00:23):
series. In this conversation, wedelve into the intricate layers of identity and how they intertwine to shape our experiences, from race and ethnicity to gender and faith. Join us as we explore the nuanced intersections that define who we are.
Welcome to episode six of Q, Qand A. We are talking to Augustina. Please introduce yourself

(00:50):
a Kia ora, everyone. It's veryhappy to be here. My name is Augustina marianachi, and I'm a 33 year old translator and interpreter from Argentina. How many intersections do you have and cultural identities that you identify with? Oh, well, I think I've been discovering those identities throughout the years.

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I guess it happens to everyone.But I identify as Latin American, and more specifically, as South American, because Argentina is at the very, very south of Latin America, and it's quite far away from Mexico, and, you know, other parts that people, you know, associate with Latin America. And I'm
Argentinian specifically. Andwithin Argentina, I'm not from Buenos Aires, which is the biggest city. So I'm from Cordova, and that, like the the relationship or the you know, I identify as someone from Cordova rather than someone from Argentina, more with Cordova than with the rest of the

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country, if that makes sense, Iam also a feminist woman. I'm queer, and I think it's also very important to point out that even though I am South American, I'm of Italian descent, so I'm quite white, so that affects the way that I'm perceived. And that makes that really complicates my identity. Well, it makes it more

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complex here in Aotearoa, atleast. And I'm also an academic and translator, interpreter practitioner, and I'm a bilingual and I'm a migrant, so I identify as all of those things, which I think make up who I am. Tell us how you navigate those intersections. And, yeah, on a daily what does

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that look like sometimes foryou? Um, yeah, I think I've already hinted at it a little bit. So because of because my English is very good, and people don't immediately realize based on my color that I'm not or like the way I present that I'm not white or Pakeha. I think I get a lot of privilege just by virtue

(03:13):
of looking this way and beingbilingual, but because I work with the migrant community in general as a translator and an interpreter. I know that that's not the case for the majority of my peers, so I'm always very aware of that. I, in fact, really, I often really struggle to identify as a person of color

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or occupy those spaces, becauseI feel like, you know, I'm making it up, and then I have conversations with other friends and here in Aotearoa, and they're like, well, but you know, you're Argentinian, it's not the same to be South American, come from that context, than it is to, you
know, have grown up here, or,like, come from, you know, be European, or have grown up in that experience. So it's all. It's all really complex. And I think that often the question, the way I navigate intersectionality, is by asking myself, if I'm not occupying that space, then who will be

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occupying that space? Is theresomeone better than me, better qualified or better positioned to do anything, or to be there representing any community or any or speaking about any kaupapa, and if there is, I'm more than happy to make space for them, or, you know, always try and bring people, bring
people in to work for me, tojoin whatever I'm pushing It, you know, join the fight against whatever it is that fighting at the time. So I think it has to do with paying attention to others and being able to like, you know, being aware of who you are and how you come across, and all the biases that we have and

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we have to be like. Constantlychecking, how do you think this affects your perception in the rainbow community in arts at all? Um, good question. I think that the fact that I am, you know, when I when I think about my queer experience, and this might not be answering the question that you've just asked,

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but when I think about my queerexperience, I often want I've always found myself so comfortable with it. I kind of came to the realization that I was queer really late in life, after being a part of the queer community for ages like you know, I was part of the my friends, my secondary school

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friends, were the gay guys, youknow, back back in school, and I identified as straight. So kind of, when I realized I was queer, it was very easy. I was already there. I was already a part of the queer community, so there was no issues like coming out or I didn't have to, like, nobody was really that surprised when I

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was like, Oh yeah, I have agirlfriend now. So except for my mum, my mum was very surprised. Thank you so much. Augustina, thank you so much.
My next conversation is withTommy love. Would you please introduce yourself? Kia ora, everyone.
My name is Tommy love. Pronouns,hehim. I am a Wellington native, born to Ethiopian Sudanese, enculturated folks, and I'm really excited to be talking today on intersectionality and queerness here in Aotearoa with Michelle. So thank you. Thank you so much, Tommy. How many intersections Do you have? And

(06:59):
how would you describe yourcultural identity sitting in Aotearoa, I would probably start with being African. I think African is the thing that comes first for me. So I would say that havasha Next, because I am havasha. Like, I'm like, I'm from Tigray. So that probably comes second. I think my

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queerness probably followingthat. And then, I guess, like, my New Zealand identity, considering the fact that I have been, like, enculturated here, and I think that's been a discourse of its own, as far as, like, Where do I belong? Who do I belong to, and what kind of elements of Aotearoa and its

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culture in particularWellington, because I think Wellington is a very unique kind of culture in comparison to, like, other places. So like, how those things have influenced me. So I would say African, because I am. I'm from the continent. And then mahavisha sagrai identity, following them,

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Aquinas, and then New Zealand.Like identity, tell us about how you overcome and navigate the intersections and what that looks like day to day. That's a great question, though, I think the most important thing to disclose is that for most of my like life, I have had to rely on like research. I've had to rely

(08:36):
on history and kind of like myacademic background to be my guide for the most part. I think because when we think of being African here in Aotearoa, there's a lot of misconceptions about that identity. It would just assume World Vision ads and a whole bunch of things that aren't necessarily accurate to

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the consonant, nor the context.So I think for me, I've had to rely on research so that I wouldn't confine to like, you know, like what kind of conversations are going on in regards to that, and that's done me so much good, first as a haber show, first from being from Tigray, and then following

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that, as a black person in theWest, I've understood that in order to really survive and thrive, you really do need to do your research. And for me, like folks such as you know, Ella Fitzgerald and in particular, James Baldwin, have played significant roles as represent, as representations for me, as to

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the person that I'd like to be.But not only that, who I feel when I say that I'm black and I'm proud, you know what I'm saying, and in a way that like I. It doesn't, doesn't necessarily seem to like resonate, I think, with a lot of black folk, sometimes, because they have to conform a lot like,

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you know what I'm saying, sayingI'm black and I'm proud, you know, like, and having to rely on some of my African friends, or African diasporic friends, to kind of show me their representation of what blackness looks like to them. It was the first time that I had ever heard I'm black and I'm proud, and it
was at a birthday party of myfriends, Zoe, who's of African American descent. And just hearing that, I was so baffled, because there's so much colorism, I think, like when we think of you know what I'm saying? Like, just saying I'm black and I'm proud, like, oh, shuts like, yeah, that sounds

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sick. And then for me,navigating my queer experience, especially coming from a siloed community, has been nothing short of, like, just straight hardship. Because in many ways, like when you're like, when you when you when you've been in a group and you've like, understood what it means to have

(11:09):
that infrastructure socially,and then no longer having it, you have to navigate the world a bit differently. And I think not only my book, but also my journey the last five years has a testament to my wairua, but also, like my conviction for life. And, you know, just being like, yeah, like, I will

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survive. But not only that, Iwill thrive in peace. What are the opportunities that intersections present for you? I think, like when I do interface with like other queer or like like queer minority folk here in Wellington in particular, there is most certainly like those privileges in the sense that

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there are people who you canresonate with just by like Coming from a community or not, and I think that has been like a really important part for me. And as in regards to my journey, I've had to rely on a lot of outside resources to to feel like I'm a part of something. And so I think Wellington

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overall does a good job. And inregards to those intersections, I've had to go through certain experiences that were unpleasant. But you know, you want some you lose some, and the most important thing that you don't lose is yourself. So I would say, yeah, like, I mean, there are many resources here in

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Wellington, there are, like, Ithink Wellington is like, one of the most queer cities in the world, or queer safe, and I think it's been the reason why I've been here. So, yeah, you're not wrong. And I think like, making friends, building your own community support. I think Wellington has as a as a

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community for forward kind ofvibe. So it's not really hard to, like, outsource friends or community people that are willing to support you. That's beautiful. That brings us to the end of, got anything you'd like to add on the intersections that you might to make a statement to declare intersections and

(13:24):
decision intersections are to becelebrated, valued and encouraged when people are required to conform any elements to their being, their existence, I feel like it's always done at their expense, you know, to fit in, to be a part of a group. And I think that's a black, diasporic thing, where you feel

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like you need to conform, justso that you're not lonely. So I feel like, in saying that, I would encourage people to, you know, stand in that kind of conviction to to to be themselves, despite their heritage or not, because, at the end of the day, like I said, you don't want to lose yourself. So

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I think in Aotearoa, we need todo a lot more work and a lot more research for one another, so that people can feel supported like you know, you have friends. They come from different places in the world. Learn how to say hello in their language. Like, you know what I'm saying. Like, learn to like,
make an effort. Or at least,this is what I believe. So this is just a New Zealand thing. I think a lot of people are just like so cruisy, and sometimes that's at the detriment of understanding one another. So I would say, Listen, comprehend, yeah. You very much, Tommy, that is a beautiful, beautiful

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sharing that you gave us for.Thank you wonderful. Thank you.
My next conversation is withshakala Ulysses,
shaquila Ulysses, please ensure.Yourself.
Tina Kato, Kato. Ako shikala,Wales. Ko, Takita, mi Te Waka. Ko, kahurana kita, manga, kung ATI, poro megati, Salamu, okuhapu, kongaticato. I cured everyone. My name is shakala. I'm born and raised in the beautiful Hawke's Bay here on the East Coast. I'm a proud Maori Samoan Takata pui, and I'm

(15:34):
so excited to be here and havethis korero with me today. Kia, ora, Kia. Ora, Kia. Ora, thank you for your introduction and happy heart. How many intersections you have and how many cultural identities do they manifest as? So I've got many different intersections, I think, firstly, being Maori and

(15:57):
Samoan and navigating thatbicultural world, being part of the rainbow community and having a faith upbringing is another intersection, and also being a person who has mental health challenges, but also an academic in some respects. So, yeah, I've got lots of different intersections. So how do you

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navigate your intersections? Howwould you best describe how you navigate your intersections? It's a really interesting question in terms of how I navigate my intersections, and I think it depends on the context. When I go into different spaces, or any space I like to bring my whole self, and I do that

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through usually, firstly, whenI'm speaking, introducing myself through my pepeha, giving him Mahi, and if it permits, and if I feel like it's okay, then I will share about being part of the rainbow community or being takatapoi. I don't always so context plays a big part, and also kaupapa, I'm really

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intentional. When I go intospaces, I usually have a fair idea of who's going to be there and also why I'm there, and depending on the kaupapa and how, the more I align with the kaupapa at hand, the more I share about the different intersections that I belong to. And if I feel like it's a
kaupapa that I don't align with,but I'm there to learn more of, then I won't share as much. And what opportunities do the intersections present for you? What opportunities do my intersections present? That's really good question. I think they present opportunities. I think my intersections present

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different opportunities, but Ithink I take those opportunities when I when I feel like I'm ready. I think especially when it comes to my ethnicity, if I'm at a kaupapa, for example, that is a rainbow kaupapa, if I feel like it's appropriate to stand in my mana as Takata pui, then I will lean and share that

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perspective. But if I feel likeit's not going to be appreciated, then then I won't. But just having being at those intersections, I feel like the greatest opportunities that we're presented with is choice. I always have a choice on how much I share, on who I share it with, and also which perspective

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I choose to see things with, andit helps me be more empathetic towards others. I have a great opportunity to align and to also learn more about those who I may not. I feel like I may not have anything in common at first, but after having korero and conversation, when I know that we meet at certain

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intersections, or we align oncertain kaupapa, then there's that opportunity for us to connect. And to me, that's really important, and that's something I really value, and it's also something I seek after I look for when talking to other people. I don't always like to talk to people who are like me.

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I like talking to differentpeople, especially people who challenge my soccardo or my thoughts on things, and that's always something that I see as an opportunity to learn and to grow. Yeah. Why do you think the concept intersectionality and identity has become so prominent in our community

(20:08):
as a key
two reasons. I think the firstreason is because I really think people, especially those who have the power to make decisions. I really think sometimes they try to see how many boxes they can tick, and they do it in the name of intersectionality. And it's almost as if, if you can stand

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as in a at the intersection ofas many different paths, then you know, whatever they're supporting, whatever you're doing, is ticking all of those boxes, and that can be seen as a positive and a negative thing.
Which leads to my second reason,I think

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the word intersectionality, it'sbecome a buzzword, and to me, it kind of dilutes our individual experiences. As you know, it further marginalizes us, because it's almost like, oh, we'll just, we'll put rainbow and disabled together, and we'll support something that ticks both when you know both our

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communities have our own mana.We have our own strengths. We have our we want things to happen for us in different ways. And I think when we use the word intersectionality, and also like diversity and inclusion their Crux words, they lose their value because they use so many times. And so I think that word

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has been weaponized, but I alsothink it's become really subjective, and it's almost lost, you know, as essence of its meaning, of when the word first came about, just about race. And so, yeah, I think that's what's happened to the word recently. Thank you. Thank you so much, Jax. That kind of

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wraps us up, unless there'sanything you want to add to this episode around identity and intersectionality. Otherwise,
I would just say thank you verymuch, Jax for taking part.
My next conversation is withSam. Patel, Sam, please introduce yourself.
Kia orao. I'm Sam, and Iidentify as queer. I'm somebody who really enjoys talking. We've just been talking, which has been nice. I've been in New Zealand now in Aotearoa for 16 years, and I've got two children, and I'm a solo mom of choice. Yeah. So thank you for your introduction. How many

(22:54):
intersections Do you have, andhow does that culturally identify, and what does that look like as an identity? I think it depends on where I'm at, what I'm doing. So I have lots of identities, as we all do, whether it's racialised identity, gender identity, sexual identity, class, accent,

(23:19):
age,
you know, the color of my skinbeing brown,
and even my accent. I thinkthese all contribute to to my identity. I think what I tried to do is think about how, because they can all be quite invisible at times, how do I, I guess consider that depends on who I'm with and what parts I can allow to show and what parts I can't that makes sense. Yeah,

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that makes sense. How does yourintersexuality help you navigate community and society? I think it helps me to see people. I think it helps me to connect with people. I think it helps me to also explore the world with a bit more openness. I'm grateful for my intersectionality and various identities. I think it

(24:18):
prevents me, not always I haveto check myself. That prevents me from seeing groups as monoliths. You know, I think it encourages me to be curious about people, and I think ultimately it allows me to to have a broader way of thinking compared to I think if I didn't have all of these identities.

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What opportunities do you thinkyour intersections present or give you? It's interesting. I haven't thought about it in that way before, which is telling in itself. I think thinking gives me opportunity to to empower. Others. Think it gives me opportunity to bridge between groups. I think gives me ability

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to extend myself in a way thatcan enhance other people's identity. And I think as I'm getting older, I think it gives me opportunity to share that with the younger ones. We were talking before about panel I did a while ago around being South Asian queer, and how so many younger ones came up to me later

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and said, Oh, wow, it was sogood to hear that it's not just me who has issues with family. It's not just me who feels they're navigating two worlds. It's not just me who has to self police in so many different ways in so many different settings. It's not just me who questions how I approximate to whiteness.

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It's not just me who ischallenging my the myth of meritocracy. You know, I think that's how I can use my intersectionality as a way to create opportunities for others as well.
Have you got anything else toadd to this?
Yeah, I think, I think one ofthe key parts for me in terms of navigating my intersectionality has been self policing it. You know, which part of my identity. Do I want to show today? Which part do I feel well enough to show? Do I feel safe enough to show? And I think what I'm realizing as I'm getting older

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is the emotional and cognitivelabor of that is exhausting at times. And so I think that providing permission to self, of not having to disclose everything all the time, is something that is important for intersectionality. And I think I love I can't remember her name, Dr Pragya Agarwal. Think her

(26:57):
name is her book sway. She talksabout the intersectionality and visibility model, which is basically, the more in sexual identities you have, the more you don't fit to a prototype of each one, so you just become invisible. And I think that's something that I really want to support others in, realizing

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that that's why it can be verylonely to have different identities, and that's why often people do approximate to whiteness, because actually there is some comfort in that. You know, there is some security in that. And so I think one thing I'd say to folks around intersectionality is, you know,

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the power and privilege thatgoes with it, you know, is something for us to check, you know. And I guess when I think about privilege, it's not just something that's a resource. Of course, it is, you know, I've had the privilege of education, but I think it's about recognizing how there's a
hierarchy, actually, as well. Some with my identity because I have an English accent. If people are listening to this and don't see me, they might think I'm white because my name is Sam. My surname is Patel. So a lot of people on the phone will think I'm white and make comments about that, or like,

(28:17):
somewhat, I've even had someonesay, Oh, so you married an Indian man, you know? And I was like, Well, I prayed an Indian woman. Indian woman. Now I'm divorced, but you know, in our story. But the point is, is that, you know, navigating intersectionality is actually something that takes purposeful
effort if you want to stay well.Thank you so much, Sam for taking part in this episode. Thank you, Sam. Thank you. My next conversation is with Domi. Thank you for taking part in qqa. Would you like to introduce yourself? Kia ora, I'm Domi. I live here in oti, poti Dunedin, and I am 32 years old. We'll be

(28:57):
talking a bit about somethingthat I haven't really thought about myself in like, a very specific way, but I'm really happy to be talking with you today. So how do you identify and what challenges do you find in those identifications cool, so I guess I'll start with I'm half Korean and half kiwi. I'm,

(29:24):
I guess pansexual would be thebest term. So I don't really see gender in a person. I have a partner that I've been with for eight years, and, you know, I'm, I'm a bit of an introvert. So I'm not like the kind of person that goes out and like parties and interacts with people. I have a tight knit group of
friends that I care aboutdearly, and yeah, I'm just trying to think about some of the I try to try to see the positive and things. So I don't like think about the things that I struggle with, but I do see it. You know, from almost an outside lens with, you know, social media, pop culture,

(30:06):
things like that as well. Yeah.Do you feel represented within your intersections, within the community? Well, I think
being visible,
having real conversations
and not being afraid to share.You know what you're dealing with. This is the great thing about working in a community radio station is yet to hear all these stories, and it's the people that are coming in and just making sure that people are safe when they're talking, including myself, without their

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opinions valued and their livedexperiences valued, and being able to share that with a wider audience. Because with social media and searching things online, you do get into those bubbles where the people you talk to reinforce exactly your own thinking. And it's kind of you need to be loud. You need to
talk about your experiences forthose people to hear it. Hopefully. So if we were to talk to the 15 year old Dom, yes, what would what would your advice be? Hmm, I'd say, really get to know yourself, and don't be afraid of what you find. So it's even now, you know, from 15 to now, I'm still discovering

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who I am. It's not a, oh yeah,I've discovered it. I'm good to go. I'm this person for the rest of my life. So, you know, talk to people. Find out other people's experiences. Do they relate to you? Do they not relate to you? And you just be open minded. Find out what's out. Who different people that

(32:01):
out there find out theirexperiences? I think that's the thing that I didn't do when I was young, just because I was like, dealing day to day, just with the the, you know, life, and just take time to, you know, look at yourself, look at other people, and discover yourself. And if you had one hope for

(32:22):
taking part in this podcast forthe wider community and their intersections. What would it be? Um, pretty much exactly what I said before discovering what you don't know you you have a depending on where you are, location wise or the friends that you have, you won't get the full scope of people's lives and
what they have to deal with on aday to day basis. So I'm actually excited to listen to this entire podcast, just to discover, you know, different people's stories and what they've had to deal with, and, you know, the the kind of environment that they live in and how they deal with it, and,

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you know, and also the joy thatthey get out of it as well. So not just the struggle, everyday, struggle, struggle, struggle, but also why what they've discovered has made them feel like a more whole human from your personal lived experience, how do you think your pansexuality or LGBTQ T rainbow

(33:18):
connection is reflected or
embedded in the community? Yeah,this
is a really interesting one,because my dad was adopted when he was very little. So I'm, even though I'm Korean by blood, I'm very disconnected from that culture, even though I have a bit of, I mean, I'm interested in it, and I want to find more. I just haven't been in a place in my life where I've had the

(33:40):
opportunity, or the kind ofdrive to fully explore it. So I'd love to actually visit there one day, see if I have any connection to the land and see how it feels. But yeah, I've only connected with the Korean culture by people that I know, and also, you know, pop culture K, pop, K, dramas, things like

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that. And that's kind of, yeah,it's a very surface level, because you don't get to the kind of nuances of the Korean culture and and how you know LGBT people live in Korea as well. I'm interested in finding that out. Thank you, Tommy.
Thank you for listening toEpisode Six

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for information, check our bioor visit our website, ethnic Rainbow alliance.org.nz, you