The Witch Movie Project Ep 2 - 'Suspiria' (1977) vs. 'Suspiria' (2018) - The Witch Movie Project

Episode Transcript
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(00:19):
I'm still not used to that spooky violinand that witch laughing and all that.
Courtney, we're back though.
The Witch Movie Project, Episode 2.
Yep.
Awesome.
Are you excited for this one?
Oh yeah.
These were new moviesto me, so I am thrilled.
And I was pumped to tossyou these two movies.

(00:41):
I can't wait to get into it, but beforewe do, we got to talk about the big
event October 26th presented by NovelDaybreak by Crescent Communities.
The Witch Movie Project.
Live podcast taping and movie screening.
That's what we're building to, Courtney.
Are you ready for that?
Yeah, you can vote foryour favorite movie.

(01:01):
So we're reviewing two different movies.
Um, this week they happen tobe the same movie, sort of.
But not quite.
And you get to shoot us yourfavorite, so you can vote every time.
That's right.
So hit us up at ride the wave mediaacross the board on social media at

(01:21):
prism dash healing or prism underscorehealing depending on the social platform.
Your own.
Yep.
Just find me.
Find me Courtney Pearl, wherever I'm at.
Yeah, they don't have underscores,they don't have hats, whatever it is.
But, I am super, super excited,so let's just get into it.
Let's go to this episode.
let's get to these two movies, Courtney.

(01:43):
Now,
Yeah.
where do you
start on these, these movies?
Other than, you know, I've got thered on, you've got the green going.
We
Got green light.
I love it.
Like, we got the colors on deck.
We're talking about Suspiria.
1977

(02:05):
Talk about horror movies.
This is
Now this these two right here.
Where do we start?
Because first of all the 1977movie by Dario Argento was
a
masterpiece.
First of all, I will say, but it was very,

(02:27):
it
was violent.
So people did not really take to it.
It even sent Dario
It sent
him on a deep, dark path,almost to lead to suicide.
Like that's how bad this movie
took a toll on, the people around him.
It's what were your initialthoughts on the first Suspiria?

(02:49):
Well, I do remember at one
point, and this was later in the movie
when I was watching, we werelike, you know, probably closer to
the end, but my dadwalked in and he walked
through the
living room while we're watching.
And I said to him,
dad, Were all the movies
from the 70s just like super weird?
and he just goes,

(03:09):
yeah,
and then he just walked out of the room.
I was like, I am all caught upin this whole like otherworldly,
uh, you know, kind of trippy,
colorful,
Alice in Wonderland sort of vibe, right?

(03:31):
Yes, so that color schemeis on, it's on purpose.
Now, Dario Argento actually filmedSuspiria to look like an acid trip.
That's why you see the wavy stuff.
He uses a uh, some uh, Technicolor, amodded technicolor, basically, that for

(03:52):
your, uh, for your, your, your people outthere who know all that technical terms
um,
Basically, it made it look Distorted.
It made things off.
hmm.
Mm hmm
that paired with
a
Grammy Award performance from the Goblins.
That's the soundtrackto this entire thing.
A band called the Goblins.

(04:13):
Now that's, it's got this eerie, ethereal,whatever kind of sound you want to say.
But it's unsettling.
There's
whispers in there thatare, there's all this
weird stuff going on.
They
actually filmed that score for thismovie before the movie was filmed.
So
they had the score for the movie.
And what they did, what Dario did,what the people on the set did,

(04:36):
they would blast that goblins scorewhile people were acting and stuff.
So it was unsettling at all times.
What'd you think about that music,
yeah.
I kept asking Matt,
uh, my husband, cause he's a percussionistand he knows instruments a little bit.
I was like, what is that sound?
Is it like a didgeridoo orlike, what is this wah wah sound

(04:59):
and these African drumming?
I mean, it's just all kind of
yeah, it's unsettling
because you don't know what it is.
It's almost like, it's not music,but it's, it's, um, yeah, uh, the,
I looked up the Greek instrument,um, a bouzouki, bouzouki, bouzouki?
I'm not sure how you say
it, but

(05:20):
that was in the, you know, some ofthe weird sounds that you're hearing.
It's like a kind of obscure.
You don't hear it very often.
Instrument.
Now That's great knowledge right there.
Now that's so you're saying that'swhat the goblins were playing there.
They were
Yeah.
the bazooka.
Greek instrument.
They
may have, did they invent that themselves?
Cause I don't,
I, I,
I,

(05:41):
Yeah.
I, you would think, I'venever heard it before.
It really is that unsettling.
Like, it's really, it's almostlike when people play the saw
and they
have that wah sound to itand it's like just, yeah,
Or
the theremin, you know the theremin,the thing that you do with your hands.
Have you ever seen one of those?
Very weird
thunder sounds anddistorted kind of, um, yeah.

(06:06):
that in right now.
We'll weave some of that in underneath.
let's get to the beginning ofthe movie though, because we'll
start with the 1977 version.
Yeah.
Susie
Banyon.
that's your lead characterhere, Susie Banyon.
played by JessicaHarper, I believe, right?

(06:28):
So, uh, She
makes a cameo in the newer one.
does, She does.
I love that cameo also.
And it's very, It'sit's, it's a great one to
to, to
to catch.
We'll get to that one.
But Susie arrives in Germany.
is stormy.
So the the atmosphere,the mood's already set.
It's like, okay, this is, thisis, this is not going good.

(06:49):
She gets in the taxi cab.
as
she gets to the academy though,
She's,
it's it's alreadysomething weird going on.
'cause a girl comes running out.
That's Pat.
we find out later, It's Pat.
So,
already
from the, from the get, it's, andthis is less than 10 minutes in,
we're already kind of Looking around,we're thinking, Oh, what's going on?

(07:14):
Then the murder,
Yeah.
And there's like
some foreshadowing.
They kind of stay.
Um, I noticed they like todo this a lot in the movie.
They stop on a frame and showsomething or even come back to
it and show it several times.
It was kind of a, you know, anera type thing, 1970s movies.
It's like.

(07:35):
It makes you question, like, why are welooking at this window several times?
Like, why are we looking at this thingthat seemingly has nothing to do with
anything and was kind of foreshadowingwhat was going to happen to Pat?
now
that, what's your, what's your describingthere, that's, that's called giallo.
There's a, this is a genre of moviecalled giallo, style, it's Italian.

(07:58):
I believe Dario Argento was one ofthe main ones for it, Mario Bava,
uh, Lucio Fulci, they all do this.
Now, during the seventies.
giallo style, which giallo is Italianfor yellow, that's what it means.
So yellow is, yeah, so it was,that was a pulp novel series from

(08:20):
Giallo Mondadori in the 1920s.
And that's what all these
quick
shots in these real close, yousee the eyeballs and you see all
these crazy shots That's what it
is.
And it was used to kind of distort andit was to add to the murder mystery.

(08:40):
They
also included elements ofthis in all slasher, thriller,
psychological horror movies.
Which, this falls intoall those categories.
But they
made this.
popular
The 2018 film
has some of this in there.
It has the some of the giallo Styletreatment, is the shots, the closeups,

(09:01):
the, you know, the the, the quick shots.
But then there's also thesein this 1977 and both films.
There's also these long drawn out shots.
that are Unsettling in their ownbecause you're like I'm used to these
choppy chop chop chops And then allof a sudden why am I on this one
shot down the hallway for 30 seconds?

(09:23):
The
or this like little detail for an extralong amount of time and we weren't
sure if that was like
just because of the, the era thatit was filmed or if it was a style.
We kept joking about it becausewe're like, oh, we're going
to look at this for a while.
You know, one thing for 20minutes now or something like
that
yeah,
We were having fun whilewe were watching it.

(09:44):
Now,
let's
talk about the murder scene.
Right from the beginning.
That's, this is when, this is when, uh,Pat and her friend, they, get brutally,
brutally murdered.
And I do mean brutal.
That was done on purpose to disturb.
And it did.
Back in the 70s, when this thing wasreleased in 77, that was the most

(10:06):
disturbing murder scene, and to thisday, maybe one of the most disturbing
murder scenes in a movie ever.
Yeah,
He,
it was
pretty shocking even forlike the time period.
I'm like, Oh, I don't knowolder movies very well, but.
Wondering how far they weregoing to take it, how far
they were going to

(10:26):
you know, show blood and bodies andcutting throats and all the things.
But I did take note that inthe bathroom before she's
murdered, she's in the bathroom.
The artwork on the wallis Sky and Water by M.
C.
Escher.
Which is a, it's likea, uh, optical illusion.

(10:47):
It
looks like fish
coming, uh, you know, a bunch offish and then they turn into geese.
So it's like flight and water.
It's a famous, um, piece ofart, but it's supposed to be
kind of an optical illusion.
And there was a lot of likeart deco style, 1920s style,
um, in this movie particularly.

(11:07):
So
sucks you in.
It really sucks
not, yeah.
the,
kind of
the nothing is quite what youthink it's going to be vibe is
what that's
telling me.
I don't know if that was on purpose,but I think everything's on purpose.
So
was.
it definitely is on purpose.
And and then also you can actually seeDario himself in the mirror reflection

(11:29):
as the hands that is, that is, thatis killing the, the victim here.
That's on purpose too.
He mentioned later on.
Is it really?
Well, maybe.
I think it was.
I think it was because
it was almost like he put hissignature in an iconic scene
and he knew what he was doing.
I don't think he did anything by accident.

(11:49):
So I fully believe that.
We get to
Susie's first day at the academy.
It's
It's already weird.
Like it's, it's, she meets MadameBlanc and she meets Miss Tanner
and there's just strange stuff.
and, then

(12:10):
what,
Somebody fainted during the rehearsal?
Erie, you can
Yeah, a lot of things are happeningto Susie, like she's getting nauseous
and she's kind of feeling warped.
She's walking down halls and itlike almost funhouse kind of vibes.
Like she's, um, you know, notwalking straight and kind of

(12:31):
bumping into walls and doesn't feel
well.
Yeah.
I wrote down, um,
because
it was at the beginning and it wasthe ballerina school or dance school.
I wrote down, um, black swan vibes,
Yes.
like.
You know, the movieNatalie Portman, it's like
kind of trippy or like things are odd andyou can't quite put your finger on why.

(12:55):
And it has something to dowith the art of dance, right?
Yes.
Yes.
No, that's a very good, that'sa good take right there.
And I did get Black Swan vibes.
That's a great movie.
too.
I mean, that's Oscarwinner there, I believe.
So, we're only 30 minutes
deep into the movie though, and
it's,
It's a, wei it's, it's a weirdwatch up until this point.

(13:17):
It's a weird watch andyou're trying to get your,
Honestly, as a, as
a viewer, as a viewer, you'retrying to get your footing.
Like, you're trying to find out
what,
what the fuck am I looking at?
Like, honestly, like, that's what it is.
And, and
then,
it really takes you like your Susiecoming from a regular average world.
She
comes from the airport.
She's in a taxi cab,

(13:38):
But like,
when she gets to the dance studio,everything's bright colors.
Um, like that art deco.
But it almost feels likeeverything's also a stage.
Did you get that too?
Like, it was on purpose madeto look like it was a set.
Like, it wasn't real stairs.
Wasn't real buildings.
It was just almost felt like itwas, um, Even Pat, when she sees

(14:02):
Pat running through the woods,
it's like a strobe light.
That was really cool.
I liked that effect
that they did.
that's in
both movies, I believe, right?
That kind of, uh, that glow, thatalmost, uh, I call it the, it was
a, uh, the Donnie Darko, when hehad the thing coming out, it's the
Donnie Darko Globe, but it was, uh,

(14:23):
Oh,
more of a psychedelic versionof the Donnie Darko, uh,
theme of whatever came outof his chest, you know?
So, so, so Susie
moves into Olga's apartment.
And
then, this is when a, this is whenweird stuff starts happening too.
She's counting the steps.

(14:44):
she's
figuring out, wait a minute,that doesn't go there.
That doesn't, you know, something's weirdgoing on, but we still don't know what.
Yeah.
Well, um, there was something that
happened
before she goes,
Oh,
I'm trying to remember what it was.

(15:06):
Um, Oh, the, the conversation betweenthe dancers when she's borrowing shoes
and there was this little conversation.
So when I found out laterthat this was written.
Um, about a boarding school.
Like the original, the storythat it was taken from was a
boarding school with young girls.
And, um, later when I found thatout, I was like, Oh, now I get why

(15:29):
the script was written that way.
Because there was this moment wherethese, um, dancers were teasing each
other and she's like, Oh, your nameis S like a snake, you're Susie and
you're Sarah, and you're like a snake.
And then the girls arehissing at each other.
And it's Really weird.
Like, we're all

(15:50):
kind of watching this, like, what?
This is weird.
And Susie's watchingit, like, this is weird.
And, and it turns out that that wassupposed to be like little girls.
Like, that's why it seems so juvenile.
It was little girls talking instead oflike grown women, you know, the dancers.
But I thought it was really importantbecause I was like, there's already
this weird vibe going on whereyou're like, why are grown women

(16:13):
talking to each other this way?
No.
but you're definitelyon to something there.
because it's absolutely true.
Salvatore, Argento, that's Dario's father.
He's the one that axed down and said,nope, you cannot use young girls
because it was written for young girls.
So they had a cast hire.

(16:34):
They couldn't, do this with young girls.
because of how violent.
it was.
Could you imagine this movie?
Probably.
I know.
like, 12 year old girls inthere instead of dancing.
Like, that'd have been,
Oh my God.
Like, they'd have had toput these guys in jail.
Salvatore and, and um, Dariowould have had to go in jail.
The Argento family, you got Salvatore,you got Dario, you got Mike Argento

(16:55):
out in Toluca Lake doing his thing.
That's, that's a plug for my, for abuddy of mine I used to work with.
His last name was Argento.
Is Argento.
He's still around.
Now, back
to, back to this though.
They
did have to cast older, butDario did not rewrite the script.

(17:15):
So that's why the dialogue is
childish.
It even goes a little bit furtherbecause if you, if you really pay
attention, the doorknobs on allthe doors, they're, they're at a
height that they have to reach up.
So it's almost, it gives these girls thischildlike features when they're of age.
So it's this it's a weird.

(17:37):
It's a weird line that they, they kind ofwalked there, uh, but yeah, Yeah, that's,
that's a great, great, great, great find.
Look at you, Courtney.
Look at you find it.
Well, I did
think the conversation was already odd.
And so later I was like, Oh, when youthink about it as little girls saying

(17:57):
this to each other, that makes sense.
But grown women
being like,
you're a snake.
Your name starts with S.
I'm like, okay.
Um, I guess
that's mean.
weird, but all right.
So what's next?
You got, uh, oh, oh my god.
Now, now you got the, you gota disgusting scene in here too.

(18:19):
The maggots falling from the ceiling.
Like, that's,
that's enough right there tosend me running from the theater.
That's enough right there.
yeah.
I think this, this, this was disgusting.
This was, this was, you know, notsomething that you want to see.
Yeah, and it was honestly, it waspeople, it was, uh, some of the

(18:39):
cast, um, the crew sprinkling ricedown on, onto the girls, uh, acting.
But still, it just
it makes your
they do close up shots and when youfind the food in the attic that's gone
bad and it's just covered in maggots.
It's a really, you know, graphicscene like it's, um, it may not be
blood and gore yet, but it was likeenough to make me cringe and like,

(19:05):
have to check myself to make sureI didn't have bugs crawling on me.
oh,
yeah.
Now, now, now let's talk about
the
men that we see.
Now you have You have Daniel.
We haven't even talked aboutthese, these, these characters yet.
You got Daniel, Daniel.

(19:26):
Mm hmm.
He's the
what, the, blind piano player?
Yep.
Um, and then you have, what'sthe other guy's name there?
The, the, the butler
guy, I guess.
Uh,
Yeah.
he was, honestly, I know he, wasa local person that Dario found

(19:47):
and
loved him.
So he put him in a movie.
And so that was, that was theother, the other guy that was, uh.
Yeah.
The, I guess a butler?
I don't know what he was, but.
Yeah.
He's kind of got Igor going on likethe, the kind of, I don't know, um,
assistant who's just a little creepyand a little bit, you know, not,

(20:12):
not very talkative
No, not at all.
of,
I don't think he says, Idon't think he says anything.
So, but, but, uh, but Daniel though.
yeah.
Yeah.
He has his German shepherd, which Ilaughed and I wrote down in my notes.
I'm like, so this is in Germany.
We have to have a German shepherd.
And that caused me to look up what isthe most common dog breed in Germany.

(20:34):
And it's actually Chihuahua.
So little fun fact for you about Germany.
I
love that.
Now we
need, yeah, so, so,
in
Germany, huh?
Yeah, not German shepherds, but Ithought, isn't that a little cliche?
Like we have this, uh, youknow, this guy has a, uh, seeing
eye dog, but it's a German

(20:55):
Shepherd.
It, it becomes important though.
It's all right.
yeah, he's walking this dog, uh,uh, this is after he gets cast
out of the dance studio now.
Let's go to that part.
Uh, because they cast him, oractually, yeah, what did he, he
gets mad and then he, and he leaves.

(21:16):
I don't know.
How did this even go down?
Because I don't even rememberthis because of what happens
next.
Yeah.
Well, was there somethingbetween, I think I
missed it.
I think I must've like stepped outof the room or something for a second
because, uh, Matt, my husband waswatching it with me and he said the dog
did something to the boy, the littleboy and that's, they got mad at him

(21:37):
and they kicked him out or something.
See, I
don't
to watch it a third time to find out.
right?
Now I can't remember whathappened right there either, but
when he's walking his dog
at
night, it's
just, you know, something'sabout to happen.
Yeah.
And they keep doing that closeupof the building, like those shots

(22:00):
that feel like what's going on.
They are showing these, these buildingsaround him and the statues in the
buildings, like for a long time.
Like,
not quick shots, but like, long
shots.
You're just waiting.
You're waiting and theanticipation is growing and
It's,

(22:21):
you know where he is?
He's in Konigsplatz, which is in Germany.
Now, that is a historical placebecause that's where Hitler
and the
Nazis
Ah, okay.
Hitler had some of his most hate.
Most, most, most.
hate, hated
words coming out of his mouth.

(22:42):
Most hatred
is
in that very spot.
So sure, there's there's some
uh, there's
some there's some undertones here fromfor, for uh, from Dario and whatever
about fascism and all that, but this
Yeah,
it's real subtle though,not like the, the newer

(23:02):
2018
one, which really directly includedhistorical things like the Holocaust and
the Berlin Wall and the war and thingsgoing like, they brought it right into
the movie, very like, in your face,but I think it was like a subtle nod.
It wasn't like a main part of themovie, but they, you know, They
must have like, we want to put thatin and have that be recognizable.

(23:26):
Right.
oh absolutely and it waslike, that's It's menacing.
And at that time it was evenmore fresh in people's minds.
So when you saw that, like, youknew you're like, Oh, that's, yeah.
that's some, some, evil some, some,evil shit went on right there.
You know, some
Yeah.
words

(23:46):
spewed full of hate came from there,you know, like it was not A And yeah,
Daniel meets his demise right here.
He's, he's done.
He gets,
gets
done in.
Yeah.
Really, really nice
and graphic too.
They don't show the body,but when they show the dog
eating, it's pretty, I'm like,

(24:08):
like your imagination fill in theblanks, you know, what's going on there.
You're
like,
just brutal, brutal.
Once again.
And,
good thing they didn't have achihuahua because they needed the
German shepherd for the scene.
right?
could you imagine a koala
Eating Daniel instead.
That'd have been, that'd have been.
it'd have been a long
scene.
It'd have been a longer scene.
That'd have been yeah.

(24:29):
So,
we're
starting to, uh, uh, at thestudio, at the dance studio.
We're, Susie,
Sarah, they're starting toinvestigate all the secrets.
They're starting to figure out stuff.
Okay.
Sarah.
Sarah meets her demise.
Like, it's,
there's a lot, there's a high,you know, there's a high body
count for a a movie here.

(24:49):
Uh.
Not sure how many, but there'squite a few that, that drop.
on
Yeah, I mean, definitely
would be noticeable when you're thinkingabout like, okay, Pat runs from this
dance studio, she's dead, and they'repretty open about it, they're like,
yep, Pat died, the authorities areinvolved, super sad, and then they're

(25:10):
like, oh, and that guy, the blind guy,you know, uh, the piano player, he died.
Super sad.
Like, they know what's goingon, so they're telling that.
And like, you would think if youwere one of the students, a new
student, you'd be like, uh, that'skind of a lot of people died.
Right?
Like,
it's a
pretty good sign that, um,

(25:31):
yeah,
we, we should probablysteer clear of this place.
that
Sum things up.
It could happen to me.
Like, that's, That would be my thought.
It's like, hey, uh, yeah, why arepeople disappearing around here?
Yeah.
And the, uh, Sarah's death was veryinteresting because they said that

(25:51):
that was the one, um, in, in thefacts about the movie that she was
actually hurt doing that scene.
They only did it in one take,but I don't think anyone realized
how hard it would be on her.
Or how much it would hurt to, uh,jump into a room full of wires.
yeah,
right?
Sounds like a great idea to me, but no.

(26:13):
Yeah, they took the barb out ofit, so it wasn't barbed wire.
She still got poked though.
She
was still getting
poked by something.
So yeah, that's a,that's a, that's a great
take away from that because she wentthrough the pain for our pleasure.
You know, like that's what it was.
Our favorite part of that scene,uh, was the, um, picking the lock.

(26:36):
Oh
Um,
She's
waiting in the room, and she's trapped,and she doesn't know what to do,
and she's she sees the window, she'sgonna climb, like, up some boxes.
But this whole scene takes a while.
Like, she's in this room, and itkeeps cutting to the the lock, and
it's just one of those locks thatall you'd have to do is push it up.
And the person picking the lock is, haslike a knife and is trying to pick the

(27:00):
lock and it's just like, oh, not quite.
Oh, oh, oops.
I, oh, not quite.
Oh, and I wrote down what Matt said.
He's like, uh, this limpdick trying to pick the lock
here.
That's, that's exactly,
that's the descriptionyou can have right there.
That's absolutely it.
So,

(27:21):
Like, it needs
to build suspense.
And so whoever it is, theyjust aren't good at it.
They're just not quite getting that quite.
So
after this, after, after Sarah is chasingand killed, then, then this is when,
this is when it all comes to light.
This is when we find out

(27:41):
they're
witches, basically.
like these, And we're not talking aboutyour friendly neighborhood witches here.
We're talking about the, thedark, the evil, whatever, uh,
what would you call types of
witches?
What are these?
Well, they're what folklore would want,would have you believe witches are, which
is, they are, um, needing these humansacrifices to power their themselves.

(28:08):
You know, they, uh, the dance studiois basically, or the dance school is
kind of a front for them to be able toperform these rituals and to have human
sacrifices or human, girls to powertheir youth and their rejuvenation and
their, you know, it's the old folklorethat witches eat children, basically.

(28:30):
Okay.
So that, so is thatwhat it really is then?
Is that what this is a, uh,an interpretation of that?
Because here's the thing too,I know that we haven't really
gotten into the three mothers yet
of
what the witches really are.
So you know, should we do that?
Should we get into the three witches now?

(28:52):
Yeah.
And that would be like, maybe my only,
uh,
well, I do like to poke fun, but it wouldbe my only criticism of this movie in the
1977 version is that I don't think they gofar enough in explaining that or to give
that folklore, um, it's due diligence,um, because you kind of miss it.

(29:13):
Like you kind of gloss over it.
And then, you know, Um, he does have thisbe one of the trilogy so that the three
mothers are represented in the movies.
But, um, but even when she goes to talkto the psychiatrist, um, uh, which we'll
talk about maybe in a minute, but I,you know, he kind of tries to relate

(29:34):
to her, the story, or where MadameMarquis or the, uh, the, uh, Who is
Mother Suspirium, where she maybe comesfrom and the Tale of the Three Witches.
And I feel like it wasjust kind of glossed over.
It wasn't really madeto be at the forefront.
And I feel like if you were justwatching this movie one time

(29:56):
through, you would kind of miss it.
Like, you wouldn't really see it as well.
But this was based on, um,the story, uh, an essay.
From Thomas
De Quincey in the 18th century calledthe Three Sorrows, which were, um,
each one, the three mothers have their

(30:17):
name.
Right?
I had this pulled up.
Three Mothers, Powerful Witches, MaterTenenbarum, the Mother of Darkness,
Mater Lacrimarium, the Mother of Tears,and Mother Susperium, Mother of Sighs.
So this is supposed to be Marcos,or Helena Marcos is this, is

(30:39):
um,
Leader of the witchesand this dance Academy.
It's a, you know,
she's
leading this coven and she'ssupposed to be the mother of size.
Now, is this So you're sayingthis is not, like, based on
some
thousand year old

(31:01):
Ancient prophecies, ancient.
Yes, because there's, there's3 mothers and 3 goddesses.
In a lot of folklore mythology thatdoes date back to ancient Egypt, you
know, Greek mythology, things like that.
Um.
The mother is, uh, the three goddessesare usually the maiden, the mother and

(31:22):
the crone or someone somewhat separate,uh, representing those three parts
of a woman's life or the goddess, um,different goddesses that represent.
The Maiden, the Mother, and the Crone.
So you see that Three Motherstheme come up a lot in fairytale
folklore and mythology.

(31:43):
Gotcha.
So so this is, so it's kind ofgot some roots in something,
but it's not taken directly from
ancient
folklore or anything like
Yeah, it's fairly recent.
yeah,
so
so, we
mentioned it.
There's a trilogy of these.
So the other two mothers arementioned in the other two movies.

(32:03):
They're not on our list.
So we won't go too far into those unlessyou, unless you've got a couple facts
that you want to rip off about those.
You got anything for those?
Um, that's pretty much the gist ofit, as it was taken from that, and um,
Inspired this movie.
Um, and a true story about, uh, was itthe, one of the co writers of the script?

(32:29):
She makes a little cameoappearance in the movie as well.
She had a grandmother thatwent to a boarding school.
It's a Daria Nicola Nicolotti.
Might be something wrong.
Yeah, she had a grandmother that went to aboarding school and apparently there were.
Um, which is practicingblack magic at this boarding

(32:49):
school and it was discovered.
Now, I really question that.
I really question, like,what does that mean?
Because if you look back that farand someone's accused of, quote,
unquote, black magic, and that they'reperforming in a school, you're just
like, well, what, were they just kindof, like, doing, reading tarot cards?
In the basement or like,what does that mean?

(33:10):
Exactly.
What is the black magic thatthey discovered they were doing?
But anyway that inspired the story ofyou know, this movie of making a dance
School and it turns out that it's runby witches and they need these young
women to power and fuel their power

(33:33):
At
this point in the movie, uh, thisis when I get to the, to, to uh, Dr.
Mandel and Professor Milius.
And
that's when you get thebackground on Helena Marcos.
Yeah.
She's the founder of
the Academy, so.
and we haven't seen her at all
Exactly.
So we find out, the info on her,we find out that this place is a

(33:56):
coven and it's got a dark historyand a connection to witchcraft.
Like I said, not your,not your friendly witches.
These are the vengeful.
They're out, they're out to get you.
And this is
when she also overhears.
or do you want to skip over thewe're not going to skip over the,
the, the therapist part, cause

(34:17):
Well, the one thing I wrote in mynotes from that scene is, um, Dr.
Patient Confidentiality.
Is that a thing?
He's
kind of telling her everything.
He's like, Oh, well, actually,Sarah was a patient of mine.
And let me tell you all of these delusions
she had about witches and startsjust telling her everything.

(34:39):
And I'm like, we don't knowSarah's dead at this point.
So, uh, I guess it's justlike, it moves the story along.
You kind of need it,I guess, but I'm like,
this is
a, probably a pretty big no no,like therapists shouldn't be
telling people what you say in your
sessions.
I thought the same thing.
Can't do that.
Like, Maybe
it's a different, different place.

(35:00):
Maybe in, uh, in, in
Germany they didn't haveto worry about that.
I don't know.
Maybe you can just
Maybe.
anybody.
Imagine.
Could imagine going down the street.
Hey,
I heard you got hemorrhoids lastweek, you know, I couldn't imagine.
Oh my goodness.
this is important to the story.
We need to know.

(35:21):
That.
Okay.
So now, I think we're at the, uh,where she finds the hidden passages.
She hears their plan.
hmm.
She knows now they're witches.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it, we're coming to the climax,like, she's, she confronts Helena Marcos.
She, she confronts her and,who, who is the head witch.

(35:45):
Mm hmm.
How does that go?
How does that go for her?
Yeah.
Well, makeup is pretty good, I think.
I mean, I had to write that down, like,for this time period, and, you know,
without kind of the more modern advancesand the movie making that we've had.
Um, She's, she's pretty, uh,she looks pretty ancient.

(36:07):
Big
Pretty old looking there.
Uh, and I don't know where, doyou think they were using Sarah's
body for the ritual that shehad been chosen to be the one?
I think, I think, I think so.
It's not specifically stated, butI believe, that would be my guess.
It would be my guess it wasSarah's body for the ritual itself.

(36:30):
Uh,
and
then, this thing, all within like 10minutes, like this whole thing just.
It collapses, literally.
Yeah, they decide,
she can overhear them sayingthe American girl is next.
She's got to go.
yeah,
And then she kind of backsup into this extra room.
She sees Sarah's dead body.
She's like, oh, crap.

(36:51):
There's my friend.
And then she's kind of thrust intothis secret hidden room where Helena,
uh, Marcos is, um, and the, like,the raspy breathing voice that
they had heard early in the movie.
Which we forgot to say, the backlighting,that scene where they're all sleeping
in the ballroom because of the maggots,and, um, we did hear that raspy voice.

(37:15):
Now, why is she in that scene?
I'm still not sure, because sheobviously has her own hidden bedroom.
Down in some secret area.
And when they're all sleeping in theballroom and they've got these sheets up
and there's this eerie red backlighting.
For some reason, Helena Marcos goesand sleeps with these girls in the

(37:37):
ballroom, but you never see her.
So you,
you hear Sarah kind ofsaying like, that's her.
She's the head of the school.
And I think something is,
you know,
you hear that snoring that she'sdoing and something's off about it.
And.
Uh, I'm like, why is she there?
I'm not really sure, but

(37:58):
maybe she's Scoping out.
Maybe she was looking at her.
may be.
I think she
was probably because if you thinkabout it That was when they're
all in the same place together.
it's her ignorance, chance,
and her sleep so
It's creepy
like that.
That's a So
where were we?
Where were we though?

(38:18):
Because oh, you know what Iwant to touch on is is Jessica
Harper herself playing Susie
Mm hmm.
speaking
English.
Now we had an English dub of theentire movie, but all those actors and
actresses, they didn't speak English.
There was multiple languagesinvolved on the set.

(38:39):
A lot of times when they'd had thedialogue between themselves, Jessica
Harper didn't speak German, So itwas, she was just getting talked to.
They would, They would use theirfeet to tap and give the cues of,
alright, it's your turn to talk.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
so on the set, uh,
that since they did know that itwas gonna be dubbed, they didn't

(39:02):
care about the audio around them.
So it, there would be hammering going on.
So it'd be people talkingoff screen all the time.
So you're acting, you're
acting scenes.
A lot of those scenes had no audio thatwas used that was not dubbed later.
That's, to me,
that's
a, if you watch that movie, you know that.

(39:22):
And you watch theinteractions between actors.
it's
incredible that they figuredout, uh, the language barrier.
because I don't knowhow you've been doing.
And that
takes a really skilled actor to beable to respond appropriately because,
um, I have a little experience inacting and I know a lot of the training

(39:42):
that you do is like active listening.
Um, sometimes we would have our director,um, we had our lines memorized, but
they would have us switch parts inrehearsal so that we had to practice
Not just reciting our lines or ourpart, but being active listening to what

(40:02):
the other character is saying to you.
So if she can't even understand Whatthey're saying, or they're just having
to kind of give her a cue, like,okay, now talk, she's got to somehow
act like she totally understood whatthis other person said to her and
respond and react appropriately.
That's, that's tough.

(40:23):
That's that's to me,
this was, that's an Oscar awardwinning performance there then, right?
Like that should be.
Could be, could be.
we're going to talk about what I thinkwould be Oscar award performance in the
next movie, but let's finish this offfirst because now we're at the climax.
we
have A battle.

(40:45):
She stabs Hello.
Marcos
Catches on fire.
Yeah.
Susie
one of those
like, wrap it up tight and tidy,
Yeah
for a second, how in the world isshe going to get out of there alive?
And how is she going to kind of maybedefeat these witches, like, ahead of it?

(41:07):
But it all happens,like, in one fail swoop.
She kills the HUD witch, and itsends the entire dance studio aflame.
Like, all the other witchescan't live without her.
So.
in about that time frame thatwe talked about that was it.
It's literally.
Boom, the climax, the witches die, burnsup, Susie walks out, the film's over.

(41:30):
You see susie walking
away and the the danceacademy's burned up.
If you went to the bathroomduring that time, you would be
like, wait, what just happened?
What were your final thoughts onthis first movie without seeing
the second one?
I almost said part two.
It's not part two.
It's not a remake.
We'll get to that.

(41:51):
But what were your final thoughts ofwhat you saw here in Suspiria in 1977?
Hmm.
My thoughts always go backto the perception of witches.
And like, obviously a lot of folkloreand a lot of, um, descriptions of
witches over the last, you know,Few centuries have been negative

(42:11):
because it's really about like, well,they're in league with the devil.
They are satanic, they are Dabblingin powers that come from evil places.
They do harm They eat babies all ofthese kinds of things that came from
like, you know, the campaign to you know,Deflect people from witches, but, um,

(42:36):
but I go back to, like, when you hearcertain folklore about, for example,
Baba Yaga that comes from Scandinavianfolklore, uh, she has a lot of folklore
about her that's kind of dark and creepyand eerie, almost Hansel and Gretel,
uh, eats the children kind of vibes.
But
then there's stories about her whereshe's the fairy godmother in the story.

(42:57):
She's the one that helps out theheroine in the story of Vasilisa.
Um, she still lives.
She flies through the nighton her inner cauldron.
She lives in a house inthe woods on chicken legs.
And she has a fence madeof skeletons and bones.
She's still got that going on.
But in the story, she'sthe one that helps.

(43:19):
And, um, and I have to go back tothat and remind people that, yeah,
there was a lot of propaganda againstwitchcraft and against witches.
Um, but I asked myself in this movie,in the 1977 version, I asked myself,
What was the purpose of the killing?
Like, what was, what was the motive here?
Was it just to make a good story?

(43:40):
Was it just to make us go,and have a good horror film?
Or, you know, was there, like,something else, another level to
it that we just haven't exploredor this movie didn't touch on yet?
And that's why I really lovedgoing to the 2018 version.
And being able to see that thereis a lot more going on here.

(44:02):
Like, there are such other layers, it'snot just what we see on the surface.
Right?
I think you hit it all right there.
And I think, uh, Dario Argentoputting this film together.
Dario is the Italian Alfred Hitchcock.
Way more blood and guts.
Like, that's, that's what he is.
Not as
subtle.

(44:23):
there's definitely
Intention in the story and whathe was laying out, and there's
definitely intention in the designof the movie that he put together.
Because those quick scenes andthose shots and the way that
it made you feel unsettled.
The goblin soundtrack everythingwas so plotted out That

(44:43):
did give you an experience.
That's a that movie is anexperience when you watch it.
You can tell there'ssomething special going on.
Even though you don't know whatthe fuck you're looking at.
Like you're watching it, you'relike, what am I watching?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like it feels special.
Let's get
The lighting, the green and redlighting that's unnatural, like,

(45:05):
Obviously she's not sitting therein her bedroom in red light.
That wouldn't be a natural light tobe in, but the movie was like, no,
you're in a different world here.
We're going to make it reallyfeel like a different world.
So there's going
to
be green light and there's going to bered light and it's brazen and bright.

(45:27):
2018 remake.
I've
my gosh.
So
already messed up and called it a remake.
It's not a remake.
I just messed up right now.
Yeah.
We were discussing this beforewe hit record that the director,
Dario said, um, when they said,Hey, they're remaking your movie.
He was like, no, no, no.
That movie was made exactly theway it should have been made.

(45:50):
I'm paraphrasing.
This isn't a direct quote, but hewas like, Hey, I made it exactly the
way this movie needed to be made.
If they make it exactlythe same way, it's a copy.
And if they don't make it the exactsame way, it's a completely new movie.
So he would not even call it a remake.
Reimagined.

(46:15):
Guadagnino, Guadagnino, I, I I hope I,I don't know if I'm getting that right.
My tongue doesn't work that way sometimes.
But Luca he's the director of the
2018 version, and he evensaid this is not a remake.
This, this was actually,this project itself was even
in development before this.
And.

(46:36):
Scrapped basically, or put tothe side before it got picked up.
And he calls this thing basicallya uh, uh, uh, his interpretation.
A reinterpretation.
A re-imagining.
Yeah.
And it is.
It is,
but it's also.
A remake!
It's the same movie!
It's the same characternames, the same basic plots.

(47:00):
It's just not a shot for shot or script.
It's not the same script, but Ithink they did a very good job
having the same feeling and that'sVibes while also updating it.

(47:22):
you, you're
absolutely right.
And there's a lot of workthat went into this movie.
Like, Dakota Johnson herself.
I'm a, I'm a
huge Dakota Johnson fan.
You know what?
There's two people in thismovie that I am, like,
huge fans
of.
We'll watch any three, Three, actually.
We'll get to those.
but.
yeah.
But right out the gate,Pat, played by Chloe.

(47:44):
Grace, right?
Yep.
From Dark Shadows, from Carrie.
I love her.
She's amazing.
Dakota Johnson put in years of learningdance for this role, and it shows.
I'll go ahead and tell you my other two.
Mia Goff.
I love Mia Goff.
I watch anything she's in.
She plays Sarah in this.

(48:05):
And then you got Tilda Swinton.
Oh my god.
We could talk about her all day.
We'll get to Tilda because
Tilda played three roles in this movie.
And I didn't know that untilafter I'd finished watching it.
I was like, something is Oh, yeah.
I kept suspecting somethingthroughout the movie, yeah.

(48:26):
we'll
talk about that a littlemore, but this movie,
I
mean, right off the beginning,
It's
almost like you said, it's not shot scenefor scene, but there's the same vibe.
You go, Susie Bennion, Arriving in Berlin.
She's,
is it raining?
It's raining too, right?

(48:47):
Yep.
Raining.
Uh, she gets to the academy.
like it's, it's, it's, it'sthe same type of stuff.
It's got the same feel.
Same vibe.
Same
Yeah.
And I think they use the mirrors too.
I wrote down mirrors becausewhen she gets into the dance
academy, there's a big mirror.
Um, like everywhere you go,there's mirrors that it shows you.

(49:11):
the reflection of her in, almostlike in, uh, uh, the secret window.
If you remember, you know, theywould go into the mirror and show
the reflection of the main character.
And that was kind of foreshadowing as tolike, you're not really in the real world.
Cause we're watching allof this from the mirror.
So it gives you that vibe of likegoing into a different world.

(49:34):
We're Alice in the looking glass,some of the inspirations for this
movie, uh, the original movie.
Um, Yeah, like you're ina different world here.
This isn't just regular life.
Nah,
that's like, uh, and it, we see this,the mirrors come into play later too,
quite a few times, like, with, yeah, uh,

(49:55):
whew,
that's disturbing.
This is disturbing if you
ask me, as the original.
Like, it's, it's got itsown scenes that you're like
Yeah,
that's sticking with me fora while, like you, you, you
Uh
that,
Yeah.
I mean, you update it with technologyand movie making magic that they
have been able to, you know, createover the years the gap of difference.

(50:21):
I mean, in some of the 1977 scenes,you're like, oh, they probably cut a pig.
Like you can kind of tell,whatever, you know, but you're
imagining it and it's gruesome.
Nonetheless, um,
That's a great point because, uh, theblood in the 1977 is bright, bright red.
It's, it's,
you're
It's orange.

(50:42):
It's not a blood color, sothat's a very good point
out.
It's interesting.
Go
ahead, I didn't meanto interrupt you there.
Finish that point up.
Well,
just that, you know, then whenwe see some of the scenes, like
the very first, um, uh, is Olga.
Um, when Olga, I, doesn'tquite die, but what happens

(51:07):
to her is, in the mirror scene
Yeah.
like, I, I, I'll be honest.
I had to shut my eyes for most of it.
I kept trying to watch it and I waslike, Oh my gosh, I cannot watch this.
It was too real.
It's, it, that was a, thatseems That seems crazy.
Uh, that's when

(51:30):
Dakota
Johnson, Susie is dancing too.
So it's,
yes.
transfer
of energy transfer of
Yes.
And that's
when you kind of get aforeshadowing because
it's not really the, the danceinstructors or, um, You know, they're,
they talk about, uh, Marcos energy.

(51:53):
They're like, she has an energy.
Cause when she walks in the room,all the dancers are like, Oh, like,
Ooh, what, what do you want me to do?
Like, I just want to impress you.
I'm, you know, and she has this energy.
Um, and she's, she's very nurturing andsweet, but also like tough and very stern.
It's kind of, yeah, it's, it's.

(52:14):
Oh, it's a whole thing.
But it's not them that seemto be doing this to Olga.
When Suzy starts her dance, she's doingthis amazing, like, movement dance.
And as she's moving, it's causingOlga in a different part of the
school to go through this horrificthing that she's going through.

(52:37):
But it's Susie that seemsto be causing it, right?
Yeah, but you don't,
and we see more of this later.
Um, so
Susie
even says, I think, is thisthe time that she passes out?
And she even says that doesn'tnormally happen or something.
She's, she, you can tell there's somethingdifferent going on with Susie herself
because her energy, something's drained.
She's thinking, she even says it, likeI said, this doesn't normally happen.

(53:01):
There's something along those lines andshe can tell herself that it's, it's
weird.
There's, there's something different here.
Yes.
Yeah.
Oh, that whole scene.
Well, I wanted to make a notetoo, before that scene, um, the,

(53:21):
you hear the, well, first of all,I'm like, wait, wait, go back.
Hold
on.
There's, there's a lot of really coolconversations going on throughout
the movie between the witches, um,The opening scene is Pat, but she's
talking to the therapist, the analyst,
um, the psychoanalyst,

(53:43):
And they are very upfront about itbeing witches right from the very
beginning.
Where that is the hidden thingyou find out in the original.
You don't know what's going on.
You just know something is.
And so the reveal is thisdance school is run by witches.
But in this one, I noticed,I'm like right out the gate,

(54:05):
Pat is like, they're witches.
Yeah,
And she just says it.
And you know, she's upfront about it.
And you know, they're witches.
Cause you see this scene where thewitches are all talking around the table.
They have a vote.
They're talking.
And.
They're discussing, like, Sarah and someof the students and they're saying like,

(54:28):
Oh, Sarah, she really loves it here.
She really wants to belong here.
We really feel like she belongs here.
And I think there's like a themethere about belonging, about coming
to the school and feeling like youare welcomed here and embraced here.
So it's a little bit different feeling.

(54:48):
it's almost
cultish.
It's almost a cultish type feel.
It's,
Yeah.
Kind of going back to midsummer lastweek's episode we did, which was
like, This gives the main characterthe sense of like, I finally
made it to the place I belong.
Yeah, yeah.
This, this, the 2018 movie,Suspiria, is definitely,

(55:13):
multi
layered.
It's got way more layersthan the 1977 version.
And that, this is one ofthem that's really coming.
this is one that's really seen right here.
And,
let's
get, let's get to the, to the, toright after Olga's contortion scene.
Because, like you said, she's not deadbecause we find out later that this

(55:37):
they need her.
gruesome
display of witchcraft with some,bone cracking, like, it never ended.
Like, you said, youhad to close your eyes.
And then,
we
went from that to, I believe, thatwas part of Susie's first dance.

(55:57):
That was her first dancefor the studio, right?
Yeah, she, she claimed she can,she can dance the lead to the
Volk.
Yeah.
Volk.
I love
that.
vol.
And,
And then we get to the vol performance,which is the last performance of vol.
We,
I love dance so much.

(56:17):
I always wished that I could havebeen a dancer, but I never, I never
did.
You still can.
It's not too late.
It's not too late.
I dance in my own special way.
It's just not very good looking, but okay.
Are we at the Dr.
Dr.
Kliper Kliper Because
yeah, let's talk about him.

(56:38):
I was immediately like,something's not quite right.
He's, um, maybe he's played by ayounger man, maybe, because I just
thought, there's just something like,I, you could kind of just tell that
he was wearing makeup to be older.
Yep.
But
I also second guessedthat all the whole time.

(56:58):
I'm like, well, maybe not.
Maybe this is just an older gentlemanplaying this role or whatever.
Yeah, I know.
I am
thrilled to be both right and wrong about
that.
So
they, so, so Dr.

(57:19):
Dr.
Klemperer
is played by Lutz.
Eber.
Dorf, That's the name.
When the movie released, theybuilt this whole story about
this guy named Lutz Ebersdorf.
To the point to where they even said,they were ever going to say that he had

(57:39):
passed away before the film came out.
Oh!
when Tilda Swinton said,
Ah, that's kind of too far.
Let's just tell them it's me.
I couldn't believe it either,that Tilda Swinton is Dr.
Klemper.
Luca, director, Luca
put
Tilda in the because

(58:01):
it.
The makeup,
the actors on
the set didn't even know.
The only people who reallyknew were the main actors.
Dakota and, you know, it was the mainactors who knew what was going on.

(58:21):
And to me that is anincredible thing to pull off.
The last name Eberdorf is,
Here's the meaning for it.
Eber, Eber
Eberdorf.
means
boar or swine.
And dwarf means town.
So you've got Swinetown

(58:42):
Swinton.
Got it.
It's Tilda's last name.
that
the only character We'll get to thatother character that Tilda plays.
This really is an Oscar performance.
Like, how do you do this?
But,
I know.
And how did the makeup teamnot win an Oscar for this?
right.
How did they not get nominated for, youknow, costume, makeup, um, special effects

(59:08):
category?
I mean,
it's, it's
incredible that Tilda pulled this off.
Tilda can pull off anything.
I love Tilda movies.
Everything is being off the watch.
Yeah.
But in getting to his story, I likethat they did this whole backstory
of him, um, having been, you know,what happened to him during the
Holocaust and his wife went missingand, um, um, And they, they brought a

(59:33):
lot more into that, into this movie.
The, the radio was on a lot talkingabout the war and the wall and Berlin
and, um, you know, the political kindof upheaval that was going on at that
time,
was a DAF passenger, theflights, the hostage situation.
that's been Weaved in and out.
Like I said, this thing is multi-layered,Like, it's got A lot of layers, a lot

(59:57):
of different storytelling going on.
And
I, I
think I interrupted what you weresaying there, so don't let me do that.
don't remember what Iwas saying, but I, I,
I was, yeah, just saying that,uh, I, I wrote that from the
beginning that you kind of see thatas Pat was a political activist.

(01:00:20):
She was involved in all of that.
So you, you got all ofthat into it as well.
And then you get all the doctors, Dr.
Kemper's, um, backstory,which has a purpose as well.
You know, you get to the end, you find outwhy that was all important, but, uh, yeah.
So I liked that aspect of it too.

(01:00:41):
That was all
in there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We we hadn't even talkedabout how they, how, um,
this
movie's broke down in by acts too.
It's like act one, act two, act three.
And on top of that, there's differentcolors, variations with those graphics.
Subtitles themselveshave different colors.

(01:01:02):
It's like blue and red todistinguish between the
different languages being spoken.
There's a lot of different stuff goingon, but it was broken down into a,
Different way than the 1977 version.
But I did, I did like the axe.
Um,
it's, it's like a bookon, on, on film, you know?
it's, it's different.

(01:01:23):
yeah, or a play, kind of like thataspect again of, um, the original, kind
of almost behaving like a play, likeeverything was set, everything looked
like a set, it didn't look like theywere trying to make it real, and, yeah.
So it's kind of bringingthat aspect into it as well.

(01:01:44):
Like it's a play.
You're just watching a play.
You're watching somethingthat's happening in real time.
Let me ask you about
that, about the set designs and anything.
Did you notice, because like inMidsommar and Wicker Man, we saw symbols.
We saw pagan stuff.
We saw little signs to things.
Did you, did you catch any ofthat in either of these movies?
I didn't even ask
Not as much as, and Iwas really looking too.

(01:02:05):
I was like, I wonder if I'mgoing to see anything that stands
out to me as like a connection.
Um, obviously in the original, therewas like the evil eye and the triangle.
You could see certain things thatwere definitely connected to, um, you
know, What we consider witchcraft.
Um, in the end scene, when all of thoseorb crystals are rolling across the floor,

(01:02:25):
I noticed that and I was like, well, Idon't know anybody who's practicing energy
work or, or witchcraft that doesn't havesome crystal orbs in their workspaces.
But, um, yeah, I noticed more aboutlittle, um, Subtle nods, like there's
the blue iris that you turn to get tothe secret passages in the original,

(01:02:50):
and then in the newer film theycan They, um, reference one of the
ballrooms is called the iris ballroom.
Ah, nice.
See,
I didn't catch that.
Look at you, I didn't catch that.
I love that.
yeah.
the secret passage thingthough, that's when, now,
that's
where we are pretty much in the movie.
This is when Sarah gets curious.

(01:03:13):
Played by Mia Goff.
I love Mia Goff.
Mm-Hmm.
She's
investigating the, well,she's, she thinks, she knows,
did I jump over anything?
Because this is the point whenthe movie, when she's looking
around for Patricia, really.
I think she's still there,and she starts counting.

(01:03:33):
This is the same, this is the samething that happened in the 1977 version.
Where they're counting the steps, saying,wait a minute, there's a secret hallway.
Mia Goff, Sarah does the same thinghere, and you see her counting the steps,
and then she starts counting them down.
This is a long anticipation
of
just uneasiness when she's walkingthrough these places and she,

(01:04:00):
she finds what she's looking forand I don't think she wanted to.
Yeah.
And, and it's interesting that she'sthe one that goes to the therapist,
Yeah.
uh,
to, to say, something's not right.
I don't know what I should do.
And he is talking to her whenin the original, it's kind of
Sarah she's looking for, and it'sSusie that asks the therapist.

(01:04:24):
So you kind of get a switch roles.
and how they're all participating.
Yeah.
All at the same time, you got,you got the, uh, the coven.
They're out there preparing.
They're, they're trying to get ready.
What is it?
Basically to transfer
Helena Marcos soul, I guess.

(01:04:44):
if It was a soul into Susie.
Like, that's what's gonna
happen really, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I, I was confused aboutcharacters because Marcos is
what they were calling Helena,
um,
the younger
Yeah.
dance, you know, the head of the dancethat everyone was so infatuated with.

(01:05:05):
Um, but the older Marcos is theone you don't see until the end.
And it's like, there's two different,you know, and they're all voting
on who is going to be the leader.
So they vote on the older mother.
Do they call her Mother Marcos?
I think that's what they call
her.
and Helena Marcos.
Is that the same person?
No, I don't know.

(01:05:26):
Yeah.
They're different people.
Cause there's a portrait in there when,when the scene you're talking about,
when Sarah comes in and she's overhearingconversations in the other room and
she takes an artifact off the shelf.
And, uh, there's a portraitthere of Helena Marcos, the
young And the older mother, Marcos.
You're right.
And it's got the hair on

(01:05:47):
it and whatever that is.
Like, it's,
Yeah, so they kind of take thecharacter that was just one character
and they split it into two people.
Interesting.
I didn't, I don't think I picked up on
that.
Like, that's an
Yeah, because I was getting confused.
I'm like, wait, theykeep calling her Marcos.
Is she Helena Marcos or is it?

(01:06:08):
So then who's the mother?
Like it was confusing becauseI was still stuck on what
was going on in the original.
Now,
this is only about halfwaythrough this movie.
now.
I
know.
This movie, it's quite a bit
longer than the first one.
So 2018 version.
But it never really lacks

(01:06:30):
to me.
Never really.
No.
Slow down moment.
You know what I mean?
Like it's not like.
it,
It moves and there's just alot of moving pieces going on.
What's going on with the girls?
What's going on with, um, the relationshipbetween Susie and Helena Marcos?
There's kind of this mentorship,taking her under her wing.

(01:06:54):
Um, she's obviously like spending somespecial attention and time with her
on helping her learn the Volk dance.
And also we find out preparing herfor the ritual of giving up her body
to Mother Marcos, who's going to Yes.
she
is, she

(01:07:15):
accelerates very
fast.
at some of these dances
like you, you got the,
the jump
remember the jump she's
doing and it's, she,
She's getting the energyfrom the other girls
You, you, it's
because they're collapsing
and they're having seizures and they'relike stuff that's going on with them.
Yeah.
so this is all part of the

(01:07:38):
witch's plans i'm guessinglike this is part of
what they
want to do They're they're they they knowthey know that she's the one and they're
trying to get her as strong as possibleFor the ritual did I take that right?
Is that what's happening here?
From a, from a witch's standpoint.
Well, like I'm, like I said, a lotof it is like, um, it's, I mean,

(01:08:02):
it's meant to be a fairy tale.
It's meant to be fiction,but it's taking from what.
Most of us who do practice energy work orwitchcraft or anything you want to call
it, even religious fervor, but like whatwe experience with that energy, they keep
talking about that to me is very real.

(01:08:24):
And I don't think there's anyone onthe planet who cannot sense and feel
energy in some sense, in some way.
I mean, you know, when you walkinto a room, when the energy
is high or the vibe is high.
I mean, uh, we talked about it withthe Fresh King Benjamin and the,
you know, when you get on stage andyou're a comedian, you can sense the
energy of the audience and you knowwhat you're getting back from them.

(01:08:44):
And, you know, that exchange of energy isnot a, make believe or fictional thing.
So being able to take it into a fictionalmovie, in a sense, and to be like,
okay, so what would that look likeor be like if we had this coven of
witches who then could kind of harnessthe power of these young dancers?

(01:09:07):
This is maybe what it would look like.
I mean,
definitely this is what it would
look like if you asked
me, but I'm not, you know, Ihaven't been into these covens
before, so I'm
not too familiar.
Well, honestly, and I, Iwrote down too, what the Dr.
Kemper says is that, uh,
Oh,
he says something about loveand manipulation share houses.

(01:09:31):
I wrote that down becausethat's a good quote.
Helena Marcos that says, when she takesSusie aside and they're practicing
the jumps and stuff, and she sayspoems, prayers, spells, and even the
dance, they're all the same, right?
So they're gonna do this ritualwith dance, but it's going to be no

(01:09:55):
different than someone who writesout a poem, or writes out a spell, or
puts their intention into the dance.
emotional energy into something.
I think that's brilliant.
I mean, I, I think people who doany kind of art anywhere, any form
can understand what that's like.
You're putting your emotionalexperience into a projection that's

(01:10:19):
going to go out into the world.
I love
that.
That's, that's, that's incredible.
And then that takes us right here tothe dance itself, the vault dance.
Well,
they, well, they lured Dr.
Klemper to the, to the academy.
Like, they get him in there.

(01:10:40):
Uh, he's gets, he witnesses someof the, the, the evil going on.
He's already, I mean, he already knows.
He already suspects because he's talked toSusie and Sarah at this point, I believe.
Correct?
Yeah.
Yeah, he's been talking to Sarah.
I think he was worried about herbecause he took the odd object
that she stole, took it, and

(01:11:05):
yeah, she takes it and, uh,he takes it and he's like, I
just want you to be careful.
I want you to, you know,be careful about this.
And he was investigating Pat.
With her, like Pat was his client.
So he's like, yeah, something's up.
Like the girls disappeared.
Um, kind of like my wife, you know, goingback to his personal story, he's invested.

(01:11:30):
He's emotionally invested.
He's like, this woman's gone missing.
And now Sarah, he goes to seethe dance and Sarah's not there.
She's not in the.
So he's got to think something's up.
And you, you
see the dancers alsosaying, Where's Sarah?
Where's Sarah?
Well, Sarah was out in the not sogood place finding Patricia and that

(01:11:51):
other thing without arms and oh my
I know.
I don't, I, who do you think that was?
I don't know.
Maybe that was Olga,
right?
Oh,
Olga in.
And she was all distortedand I couldn't quite tell.
I was like, yeah, obviouslythere's some people in here.
Um, and Olga comes back at the end too.

(01:12:11):
So Olga, Pat and Sarahplay a part in the final
ritual.
Yeah.
And before that though, we get to seethe, this is why we've got the red on.
We get to see the, the extravagant
costumes,
the dance of Valk.
Uh, I don't know if thisis, is this a real dance?
Was this something

(01:12:31):
that's
don't know.
I, I would love to find out.
I should have researched thatbecause I just love that.
That dance was incredible.
I mean, I was mesmerized.
If anybody out
there knows if that'sreal, hit us, let us know.
We, want, I want to know,I want to reenact it.
I want to get a reenacting of, uh,
of uh, the Valk.
The

(01:12:52):
dance, evolved.
And here's the thing too, with
all the technology, with all thisstuff out there in the filmmaking
process, there was very little CGI used.
in this scene.
This, dance was done by the dancers.
Dakota Johnson learned this.
It was, it was, uh, you know, aproduction in itself within the movie.

(01:13:15):
I loved it.
I thought it was beautiful.
Amazing.
So from what I can tell from Google,it was created just for the movie,
Okay, we're gonna
redo it anyway.
We're gonna
but was, it was powerful.
It was definitely like thatcontemporary style of dancing
with the breathing and the

(01:13:35):
Yeah, and
woof me chills.
It
was long.
It was, It was, I loved it.
It's long.
It's a long
Dance
scene.
Um
Yeah,
it definitely is a, uh, dance.
As you're talking about it inrehearsals too, you can tell that it
was a dance created to be a story.
To have its own, like, act.
Like, there's the big, you know, thebeginning of the dance and she's talking

(01:13:57):
about leading it up to the end of thedance when they're jumping and all that.
Yeah.
And this is, in, in vogue now,this is the dance of death, so
you got
Susie, ba, this is Susiebasically performing, you know,
a
ritualistic dance and then itculminates in this big, bloody, chaotic

(01:14:20):
craziness.
It's almost like you, you'rewatching this scene and you think,
after it's all over, where you'relike, how did I get from that to that?
You know what I mean?
Without, because.
It's, it's, it's,
it's insane.
Um, what'd you think about that?
So, you're talkingabout building up to the
end?

(01:14:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
You just, you think about it in, in, in
just that piece from the, thestart of the dance to the very end.
Oh yeah.
It's like how did you go from thisthing to, to this like it was.
bizarre to me.
It's bizarre to me.
If you think about how you got from pointA to point B, all the stuff in between.
Well, I can tell you, all that thread.

(01:15:03):
is definitely Susie.
Like,
from
the very beginning of the movie, and asyou follow her story through this, this
is something, this is the part where itreally differs from, um, the original.
Because the original, you'reexperiencing it as a Normy
a normal,
a muggle, if you will.

(01:15:24):
Um, you know, we're the muggleSusie, and we are going into a
dance studio, and something's weird.
And obviously, I mean, through the wholemovie, she's, she's experiencing the
same confusion and revulsion and, um, andshock as we, the audience are feeling it.
But in the 2018 version.

(01:15:45):
We're experiencing it as a threadthrough Susie, but it's not the same.
It's like, what's up with Susie?
Yeah.
Right?
No, you're
you
know, you
find out at the end, therewas something the whole time.
And I knew there would be someother big reveal because we already
revealed that they're witches.
That already got revealed early.

(01:16:06):
So there's gotta be something else.
So tell us, Right there in thefinal, this is where the final,
the final act, like Susie doesreveal her true nature, right here.
Yeah.
What is she?
She ends up beingactually Mother Suspirium
Susie,
Mother Marcos has been calling herselfMother Suspirium this whole time.

(01:16:30):
So everyone voted for her, believingshe was, she was the mother, the mother,
but
she wasn't.
That's
the mother.
Not the mama.
Remember that?
The dinosaur?
Not the mama.
not the mama.
Yeah, she was not, which, I mean,that's exactly why we were taken
through this movie in a different way.

(01:16:51):
Um, Susie was experiencing somethingelse and it shows those flashbacks and
those dream sequences where Susie'slike, always wanted to go to Berlin,
always wanted to be a part of this dancetroupe, this specific dance company.
It was something she had known from themoment she was born that she needed to go.

(01:17:13):
She had this drive to do because shewasn't in a ritual that made her mother
Suspirium.
It was, she was reincarnated or reborn asmother Suspirium and her Amish Mennonite
mother was dying on her deathbed and said,I gave birth to the sin, to a mark of

(01:17:36):
sin on this world or something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's, We didn't even touch that
scene.
And
that's very powerful right there.
So it's almost, that's a foreshadowthen, right there, where she's
letting you know that, Hey,there's something a little bit off.
And
what
about the, what about, uh,Helena Marcos right there?
making an appearance, theold shriveled up version.

(01:17:59):
Oh,
That's Tilda!
yes.
That was, I mean, it's likethey went out of their way.
With costume, makeup, CGI, tomake her the most grotesque
creature I think I've maybeever seen in a movie, ever.

(01:18:21):
Like, limbs out of parts of her body?
Tumors?
Like, you can just, uh, ugh.
Oof.
pretty.
It's not pretty at all.
And,
thankfully,
Susie does her in.
Right here.
Like,
she, She gets right at her.

(01:18:43):
And
that's the
big reveal.
The twist, as you call it.
Was that She
is Mother
Suspirium.
Kills Helena Marcos, whichis Tilda Swinton right here.
And then, it's not over.
It's not
over.
You got the
aftermath, the epilogue,

(01:19:04):
uh, You also have theappearance of Jessica Harper
Yes.
from our, from
From the original,
who was
Yosef Klemper's Wife.
Ank.
Ank, I believe is the name.

(01:19:24):
yeah,
What an incrediblecameo right here, right?
Right.
Yeah, that was
amazing.
And the fact that he gets luredthere for this ritual, he's
naked and sobbing on the floor.
He's gonna be sacrificed.
I'm sure that's whythey brought him there.
He was probably going to be another, youknow, human sacrifice for this ritual.

(01:19:45):
But he survives!
yeah,
Because she gets in there and she'slike, Ya dead, ya dead, ya dead.
The most bloody, gory scene wherethis creature of death arrives
and just starts Bam, bam, bam.
Anyone who voted for Marcos, uh, MotherMarcos in the original vote, what you

(01:20:07):
saw earlier in the movie, They get
exploded.
Yeah.
Deleted.
Just straight, boom, gone.
And Susie
erases Dr.
Klemperer's memories of the events too.
And that's basically it.
The film ends, You got Susie.
Revealing, uh, or Susie talking to Dr.

(01:20:27):
Klemperer about the
about what, his wife.
Yeah.
Tells, tells him the story of her death,um, so that he can have some peace, I
guess, about, you know, she wasn't alone.
She was surrounded by other women.
She survived, I think, 20 days intowhen, you know, after they were arrested.
And, um, anyway, just kind ofthis really emotional scene that

(01:20:49):
was actually really emotional.
Yeah.
Uh, you know, Oscar worthy,she's telling her like, I am
here to let you know.
She,
she,
you know, this is how she died.
This is what happened to her, so thatyou cannot worry about it anymore.
You don't have to think about it anymore.
And that's
almost a

(01:21:11):
nice ending.
I don't know
what to say.
It's, right?
I don't know, I mean, this, atthis point you're like, so, okay.
Um, I assume, or at least a lot of peopleon Reddit that I could see, assume that
she's now gonna take over the dance.
And she's going to be in charge andshe's going to take over the coven
and, and she's in charge now andshe's wiped out everybody who was not.

(01:21:34):
On board.
Yeah, basically.
it's,
yeah.
And so it's like this question of like,so is she a good witch or a bad witch?
Or like, you know, she, uh, theyoung Helena Marcos, it was clear
there was conflict because she didn'tlike the way things were run and

(01:21:58):
she didn't like this sacrifice part.
She didn't like thatsomeone had to give up.
She's like, we've alwaysbeen at odds about this.
Um.
And they had kind ofcontention about that.
So I, I wonder if the actual motherSuspirium, if she's going to run this
dance studio a different way, or she'sgoing to be the one who is maternal

(01:22:21):
and, um, protects these girls and makesit a safe haven for them instead of
doing it like the, the old lady did.
now
there's, there's a after credits scene.
Did you see that?
I don't know.
Did I?
Because in the after
credits scene it's Suzy, Dakota Johnson.

(01:22:42):
And she raises her arm
in a subtle gesture and it justmakes, it leaves the viewers
kind of feeling uneasy again.
I don't know if you
Oh, yeah.
It just adds
a new layer of interpretationthat you can take from it.
But I think it goes to yourpoint here, it leaves it open.

(01:23:02):
It's like,
But I like that.
I don't mind, I don't, like whenthe movies tell you right out.
Yeah, it's kind of like midsummer,you're not actually sure what's
gonna happen at the end of it.
Like, now what?
Same exact theme and concept
right here because you don't, exactly,you don't know if she belongs.

(01:23:24):
It's that same sense of belonging.
You don't know if she belongswith the witches just like, uh,
in Midsommar she belonged withthe May, the May Queen, you know?
Like, It's, it's, it's Yeah, that'sa, that's a great thing to, to kind
of pick out of that and another layer.
That's
just another layer thatthey added to this movie.

(01:23:45):
else we got to hit on this?
What's your final thoughtson 2018's The Spirit?
Oh,
yeah, I, okay, I keep going back tothe theme that we talked about a little
bit in last week's episode, Midsommar.
It does kind of have that samevibe of like, here was Susie.

(01:24:09):
Um, um, I guess grew up in a very, like,very religious, um, Mennonite, Amish, I
wasn't really sure which, but, uh, house,
um,
upbringing.
And
She
comes to this dance studio withthis same feeling of like belonging.
So even as we, the audience are unsettledby these events happening and we feel like

(01:24:35):
Oh, that's uncomfortable, orlike, why is that going on?
Um, there's a scene where she goes, uh,she sneaks into a room she's not supposed
to be in, and she happens to catch thewitches, like, have the, the police
Oh, yeah.
are like, bewitched, and, um, in atrance, and they're just like, poking
fun at them, and laughing at them,and, um, That would probably disturb

(01:24:57):
people, typically, but Susie justlaughs about it, and she's like, yeah.
So there's this sense that she isnot uncomfortable with all of this.
She is actually whereshe's always meant to be.
And you get that, that sametheme of belonging in Midsommar.
Where it's like, yeah, we're alla little uncomfortable with this

(01:25:21):
cult, this, uh, witchy evilnessgoing on, but the main character?
This is her, this is her jam.
She's like, I'm home!
That's a great, I love that because it's
like, yeah, yeah.
Um,
the,
the main characters are, are, they'relike, oh yeah, I'm good with this.

(01:25:44):
kind of.
I gotta, I gotta, I forgot, wedidn't mention, I gotta point out.
that We talked about theGoblins soundtrack in 1977.
Hey, 2018 had Tom York from Radioheaddo his first score for a movie.
And it was, it was noless Uneasy, unsettling.

(01:26:04):
We keep using that word, thosewords, but it was no less.
It was very haunting.
It added to it.
It was another depth to the movie.
I think I love Radiohead.
I love Tom Yorke.
I love what he
I knew you would love that.
I knew that would be a pointyou'd have to, to bring up, cause
yeah.
Let me tell you, side story.

(01:26:24):
I saw Radiohead.
I missed Radiohead in 2002.
We
bought the tickets so far in advancethat we forgot when the concert was.
Me and a friend of mine.
We woke up, we thought itwas this day, and guess what?
It was last night.
So,
Ugh.
he
gets his mom's credit card, and he buys usfront row tickets, second row tickets to

(01:26:48):
see Radiohead and Madison Square Garden.
So that's where I ended up seeing themand it ended up working out better.
So I got to see that tour.
Incredible.
It was incredible.
Yeah, Tom York with the score.
Like, it just, that, alongwith the visuals, both movies.
yeah,

(01:27:09):
movies compare
even though they're nota, it's not a remake.
whatever.
I
but I think, I think, you know, I wasset up to kind of think it might not be.
Um, good or something when, when I heardwhat the director had said about, you
know, it not being remake and I waslike, okay, well then I guess we'll just
see what, what happens when I watch it.
Like what, what is it going to be?

(01:27:30):
But I truly believe that it is.
The best kind of remake,if it was a remake.
It's like, we did not try tomess with what it was originally.
We just tried to make itits kind of, um, new thing.
Come to the table withsomething new, right?
mean they added an hour.

(01:27:51):
They added
an hour of extra content, is what I think.
Oh yeah, for sure.
I went to bed late that night
Yeah, right.
with visions of blood and gore in my mindas I rested my head on my little pillow.
that's the best way to
go.
That's how I go every night.
So.
Well, next week we havemuch tamer witch movies.

(01:28:12):
We've been doing some horror,some really like out there.
Um, but, uh, the next two on the list aremy picks and I'm a little bit more of the
family friendly or subtle witch movies.
Um, great movies nonetheless, though.
I'm really excited to talk about
I can't wait to do that.
Wow, that is going to be two movies thatare going to be really tough to pick.

(01:28:37):
The old, original Suspiria,and the newer, made one.
You know what, that was, like Isaid, that was one of my first times,
kind of, well, one of my first timesseeing the older 1977 Suspiria,
because it's so hard to find.
I feel like when Amazon put out the,the newer one, That they tried to erase
that old one because all the, the freestreaming services out there, you'd,

(01:29:00):
it would say, yeah, they have it.
And you look, it's not there.
So.
Yeah, it definitely deserves its due.
I mean,
Amazon, don't bury that movie.
Don't bury it.
Come on, Amazon.
It deserves its own place for sure.
But remember you can vote for which oneyou liked and send those to our socials.
But, uh, All that leading up tothe event on October 26th at Novel.

(01:29:26):
Novel Daybreak by Crescent Communitiesis sponsoring The Witch Movie Project
live podcast taping and movie screening.
If you want tickets to that thing,look around on our social media.
You can find out howto get tickets to that.
You don't want to miss it.
It's going to
be amazing and you can dress up.
Come on, ladies, put on yourwitches and come on out to this.

(01:29:50):
If you don't dress up, I might notlet them in if people don't dress up.
That's a good idea.
Yeah.
Good old
fashioned frat party.
. I wonder what I'm gonna wear.
What kind of costumecould I, can I pull up?
Hmm.
I have to, we'll have to
work on that.
Yeah, I need to, I gotta get, I'llhave to get it together quick though.
'cause this is coming up October26th, once again at Novel

(01:30:12):
Daybreak by Crescent Communities.
Love all the people over there.
Got Max.
Randy, you got Esther?
Uh, Frito.
I got his name right.
I think.
Please tell me.
I love that.
I love all the people over there.
Amazing.
We can't wait to getover there and do that.
And also, we can't forgetone of our sponsors.

(01:30:33):
It's Pure Sweat and FloatStudio at South Jordan.
Go to pure sweat studios.com or followthem on social media at Pure Sweat South
Jordan, what else we got this week?
Is that it?
That and Lift Cake Parties ishelping us plan this event.
So let's not forget to mention them.
Lift cake parties.
I love Carla and all she doesthis thing's gonna be incredible.

(01:30:56):
It's going, it's gonna, it's gonnaget, it's gonna get big over there.
It's gonna be crazy.
We're gonna be
turning people away at the door.
I
hope so.
We'll see you guys.

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The Witch Movie Project Ep 2 - 'Suspiria' (1977) vs. 'Suspiria' (2018)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Witch Movie Project Ep 2 - 'Suspiria' (1977) vs. 'Suspiria' (2018)