August 13, 2024 • 64 mins
In this episode of Understanding the Science of You, Graham speaks with Jessica Ruby Hernandez for a conversation spanning two interview sessions. Ruby, a therapist, resilience coach, and yoga instructor, shares her deep connection with nature, a bond that has been essential to her well-being throughout her life.
Ruby also discusses her unique ability to communicate with animals, a skill she developed at a young age. As an only child who moved frequently, Ruby often found herself being "the new kid," but she embraced her individuality, staying true to herself despite the challenges.
Throughout her childhood, she found many different outlets for self expression including reading, spending time in nature, connecting with animals, dancing, playing sports, and participating in band.
Jessica Ruby Hernandez is a therapist, resilience coach, and yoga instructor. Her background is in clinical psychology, nutrition, yoga and meditation, and life coaching, believing all of those modalities are interrelated, and all fundamental for guiding a person back to their sense of wholeness and wellbeing.
Learn more about Ruby's September sailing retreat by visiting her website.
Chapters:
- 00:00 Introduction
- 06:05 Ruby's story
- 11:19 How Ruby came to know her unique self
- 13:11 Ruby's connection to animals
- 16:06 Communicating with animals
- 25:25 Sharing with other kids 00:27:19 Being comfortable in her own skin
- 31:12 Being in the band
- 36:17 Fears growing up
- 43:41 Start of 2nd Interview
- 46:04 Finding a sense of belonging
- 1:00:04 Yoga and sailing retreat in Croatia
ABOUT THE PODCAST Welcome to Understanding the Science of You, a podcast founded by Graham Skidmore and EnGen. It's purpose is to help you discover untapped aspects of yourself and alternative paths to personal freedom and empowerment outside of conventional systems.
We want listeners to accept responsibility for creating change in the areas they desire. Creating change is done through personal contribution, not creating controversy.
We hope listeners will be inspired to create change within their lives after listening to our podcast because they will feel:
... Someone is fighting for them ... Cared for ... Heard ... Understood ... Hopeful ... Valued ... Appreciated ... Loved by the Universe
By living an authentic and healthy life of joy, kindness and compassion to demonstrate what's possible, our listeners will provide inspiration for others to challenge their limiting beliefs to start the movement.
To learn more about the podcast, visit scienceofyoupodcast.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
All right, welcome listeners to another edition of Understanding the Science
of You podcast, where we are focused on having real and genuine,
authentic conversations to help you break out of the molds that are holding
you back and build bridges to your most productive selves.
And today's podcast is a little different. I'm incorporating a little bit of
science in myself and understanding it here today.
(00:20):
So for those of you that are watching this on video, you'll notice that I'm
wearing a sports jacket and button down, and like Kenzie, I'm going to also wear slacks.
You know, which would have been my traditional, what do you want to call it,
business attire, right, in my prior life.
And I found myself last week being my new self in old places.
(00:42):
And it was a very, very interesting feeling and that type of connectivity and
just, you know, I guess the information that my body, you know,
was telling me about what felt right, what felt comfortable,
what was fun, what wasn't fun, right?
And it was very different. And so I I thought, you know what, today's guest, Ruby,
is one of the few people that actually only knows me since I've taken on a,
(01:06):
I'll just call it, I don't know, a flip chapter, my own journey,
a more spiritual self, whatever the right term is, and not the business grant.
And so I thought it'd be very interesting to see how I found my old business
attire, somebody who knows me in my spiritual attire.
(01:27):
And trying to see how that went, how that affected me in the conversation.
And can I still kind of get my woo on just the same way?
Or is it kind of, you know, does it alter my mindset a little bit and taking
me back to the old ways, right?
So I'm kind of, so now I'm bringing this time, I'm bringing my old self to my new places.
And so, you know, and so I'm curious to, to see how that goes.
One of the things that makes today very exciting for me and Ruby joining us
(01:50):
is Ruby was the very first person that I ever experienced.
I don't know what he would call my psychic gifts with. And so,
you know, she provided a very safe space to, to live or to learn and explore these things, right?
Like when you're a kid playing sports, right? Like I was, I'd go to,
(02:10):
you know, basketball practice.
This is before everybody hit the real sport. For those of you who don't know,
I'm a short guy. So that's why, you know, basketball, you know,
became no bueno after junior high.
But before that, it was a thing, right? And, you know, so you'd go out and you'd
play with your friends and, right? And you, and you knew how to work on your
athleticism, right? Right.
Well, if you've got spiritual gifts or psychism or other things like that,
right, they don't really have those same kind of things where you just go to
(02:31):
your neighborhood and your friends and you go hang out in the backyard and figure
out how to work on these things together.
Right. And so, you know, I learned that aspect, sort of learned that aspect of myself with Ruby.
And so I started to write down a few of the ways that we kind of practice our
different skills together.
One was just like channeling information for guidance and problem solving,
(02:52):
channeling entities like relatives. The very first time I ever did anything,
I was channeling a relative for you and being able to experience those emotions
as well and visualizing that.
That was quite the experience for me as well. And then remote viewing.
We've done that and then the historical.
And you taught me at that time to speak up because I said plushed animals when I really saw a unicorn.
(03:15):
And then in conversation later, you were like, yeah, I had a unicorn.
I'm like, I saw that, but I don't want to say anything.
Thing and so that taught me to recognize hey sometimes stuff
isn't going to make sense when you're seeing it's not meant for me right and so
that way that was a really cool thing also helping to be
able to channel the higher selves and and to get the
feedback that we're not necessarily hearing medical intuition being all you
(03:35):
know our personal favorite is the animal intuition being able to understand
and connect with the animal energies and and that's in the communicating between
consciousnesses and and both expanding consciousnesses right and and and all of everything
I just talked about is helping you expand your consciousness and understanding
that and being comfortable with that.
And then all the different claribilities, right? I mean, I thought I started
making this list. I was like, wow, we were, you know, just for just messing
(03:57):
around and we really covered a whole lot of different stuff and we're able to
do a lot of really cool different things.
And while a lot of that stuff isn't necessarily like, Oh my gosh,
this is how it translates into, um,
practical day-to-day living while they're, I can definitely go down that path
for today's conversation though.
The thing that was like the most cool for me about all of that was like,
when we talk about understanding the science of you, I was like,
(04:18):
holy cow, there's this entire magical mystery word out there that like really exists.
I didn't even know, I wasn't even aware of it, let alone did I realize that
the ability to kind of tap it and understand,
because the way that I understood things based on sci-fi movies or pop culture,
or even my own belief system, I never considered myself as having any type of,
you know, different sensitivities to energies and things like that.
(04:42):
And so anyway, so now being able to have both of my selves together here,
I don't know, it's quite interesting. So Ruby, hey, thank you so much for always
providing that safe space.
And so I know that was like a way long intro, but I was really appreciate you
coming on because, you know, look, you've been very open and vulnerable with
(05:03):
me in a lot of ways, which I truly appreciate.
And I think that you and your stories and what you've learned and what you're
still learning about, there's a lot that listeners will have to take from that, right?
Because I think it's also important for people to understand that,
look, it's not about having everything figured out.
A lot of times it's also about, you know what I mean? Like, hey,
(05:24):
you got some stuff figured out, but a lot of life is figuring out new stuff
and continuing to figure out new stuff, right? Right.
And so I think like for, for me and us and how this kind of like those different,
you know, abilities or understandings, that's just about understanding the science
of you and being excited about how much more there is to always know and how
much more there is to explore.
And so I, so I want to just thank you in advance for allowing listeners to explore
(05:46):
a little bit through you today.
So I'm going to now pause because I've talked way more than I want to and say,
Hey, you know, talk a little bit about yourself and kind of where you grew up and,
And, you know, just to kind of help to shape the little bit of identity so that
people can understand how you were started and what those kind of what was normal
to kind of where you gravitated towards so they can understand that contrast
(06:09):
in your, you know, just stepping into self.
Yeah, that's a big question. Hey, hey, everybody. Thank you for having me, Graham.
And, you know, first thing I want to say, it is so cliche, but when you you
were talking about, you know, we don't have to have it all figured out.
I can tell you, I have felt the more that I've learned and figured out the more
I realized I don't know and don't have figured out.
(06:31):
And I think that's the way it's supposed to be. So if anybody's feeling like,
oh, my God, I don't have it all figured out.
You're par for the course. It's you're doing good.
Oh my gosh okay where my beginnings
my origin story I would say some of
the most impactful things on my childhood was divorce of my parents and moving
(06:54):
around a lot and that that happened for a variety of reasons large variety of
reasons but I moved every one to two years up until high school.
I got to spend high school at the same place.
And that really, that and being an only child, I was on my own a lot to figure
(07:16):
things out because, well, nobody likes the new kid, right? Until they warm up to you.
So I was always the new kid. And.
Didn't always have friends to play with. When I did make friends, it was awesome.
But over and over again, I was the new kid.
And that's, that really solidified this concept that life is full of uncertainty.
(07:46):
And having to be with uncertainty as a part of life,
not necessarily fitting in for some
people as a part of life it helped me make peace
with that being the new kids like I there's only
so much I can do here especially if
I know I'm not going to be here long so it kind of just made me instead of really
(08:10):
try I guess some people might have really tried to fit in I found that exhausting
I'm an introvert I'm a highly sensitive person then I instead just chose to embrace who I am.
And I'm weird and different.
And not everybody's going to like me. Now, does it still hurt my feelings when people don't like me?
(08:34):
Yeah, yeah, it still does. But I know it's just the way that it is.
You know, we're not for everybody, body nobody not everybody's
going to resonate with with who I am and yeah
I learned to be okay with it am I answering your question I'm I'm well
yeah I mean look this is your life and how you've led it so kind of like anything
(08:55):
that you whatever you say is the is an actual is an answer so no stress don't
worry about it the but I do what one thing I do want to I do want to kind of
expand a little bit though so with moving around did you have anything that
you were able to anchor into to with community,
such as like some people would have like a church or a religion or a philosophy
or something like that, that maybe they grew up in that was a consistent when they moved.
(09:20):
Did you have anything like that, that you were kind of taught or brought into,
or were you literally always a kite in the wind, so to speak?
I felt like a kite in the wind. And I would say maybe the only anchor was my grandparents' house.
That was the same until they both died in their 90s. So they were around a long time.
(09:42):
That was the only anchor. And I didn't always live near their house.
So kite in the wind with an anchor of grandparents.
And the beautiful thing of the grandparents is that they would always tell me,
this is your home no matter what. but you are always welcome here. You are so loved.
And that was my saving grace in a lot of ways.
(10:03):
And so, like you said, so like you were talking about, having a lot of memories,
you know, as a kid, like it's hard to figure out why we chose different paths or whatever.
So I'm going to focus on that. But how did you kind of understand maybe the
way that you, yourself to be maybe different than others, right?
Maybe the way that you either experienced the world, the interest
(10:23):
that you had that kind of led you down the
path of taking on a more introspective
approach of of choosing to be with nature to find some of your happy places
versus trying to figure out how to fit in everywhere you want how did you get
to that place yeah i think it was just kind of the forced solitude whether that
(10:45):
was you know being an only child don't have any siblings to to play with,
the parents busy, not having made friends yet because I'm a new person.
And kids, kids are really mean to new people. They don't really take to other kids quickly.
I guess it depends on the age, the younger ages maybe.
So it was, well, okay, how am I going to entertain myself?
(11:09):
I liked reading and I liked music. So I was very often with my nose in a book
in a totally different world, listening to my Walkman.
And, and then, yeah, nature is quiet, peaceful, you hear animals,
you connect with animals, you, you know, the animals are curious,
(11:31):
some of them, the rest ignore you, right?
So there's, I guess I felt like I had enough for we're connecting with the animals.
And so that, that intrigued me. And that drew me outdoors.
I really, really, really wanted to have an imaginary friend,
but I just kept forgetting about them. I just I didn't understand.
(11:54):
Yeah, I didn't understand how my friends had, you know, imaginary friends.
I was just like, I, I like after five minutes, I forget, I'm supposed to have
an imaginary friend with me.
So that didn't work out. But yeah, playing, I love, you know, I grew up camping a lot.
So I loved exploring, climbing rocks, climbing trees.
(12:17):
It just, it was a world I could escape into that didn't have mean people in it.
And so how do you, do you happen to remember? Cause that's like,
how did, did you, do you happen to remember any moments when you felt a connectivity
with nature or animals, right?
Something, you know, and it could have been like you said, an animal coming
(12:38):
up to you, right? And you just kind of be like, whoa.
And like, wow, you're like, wow, that felt awesome.
I mean probably the first memory is
like getting a squirrel to eat out of my hand as a as like
a six-year-old is the coolest thing ever that is
pretty cool so how did so so do you so how did that so how
(12:58):
does that happen as a six-year-old like yeah it was like honestly I'm
sure I was not the first person to offer that squirrel food
they were they were in the know that this place was
you know potentially full of humans bearing food
so I can't take full credit for that but
it was a really cool experience of I
think my uncle saying hey take this cracker and offer it to the squirrel and
(13:23):
I was like really they'll eat out of my hand and he did you know that's probably
I mean isn't that everybody's first experience with animals A squirrel in a park.
I know I've never once in my, I can honestly tell you my, up until even now,
I still never thought about walking in the park and feeding a squirrel. Oh my gosh. Okay.
(13:46):
I don't mean, as you know, I spend my, you know, my morning time doing that at my yard.
Right. But you know, you know, that's our own little space together.
That's the, you know, that's, that's a, and yeah, I had to, I,
I, yeah, that, that, that eating out of the hand opens up a whole,
yeah, a whole new can of worms. So did you continue to, yeah.
And did you continue to do that? Or like, how did, how does that evolve?
(14:07):
Because that's a pretty, I mean, that's a pretty meaningful engagement as a
young child to have with a, with a non-pet, right?
And to have that type of connectivity. And like you said, that imagination, like, is that possible?
That just totally made what's possible to your, to your, to your little brain, like, whoa.
So then what? Where does, where does, where does that new confidence go from there?
(14:30):
Well, I also always had usually a cat, sometimes a dog.
And then my grandmother, the one I mentioned earlier, she always put food and
water out for the wild animals.
So I had this model of, you know, caring for animals.
I always had pets near me and I noticed like the pets, I learned how,
(14:52):
you know, I learned cat language, you know, I learned how to communicate with the cat.
I noticed that when I was sick or didn't feel good, they would get really snuggly with me.
And so I noticed more how they were attuning to me. And so I started attuning
to them more, if that makes sense.
So let's talk about that. Yes. Yeah, here we go.
(15:14):
So we talk about, because I think this is one of those examples,
right, where people are like, I don't know, like I don't talk to cats or I don't
talk to animals. Well, you might be surprised what you pick up on, right?
But you just didn't recognize that you were picking up on it.
So how do you know that you are, like this, you know, how do you know that you're
communicating with them versus just being, let's say, random stuff?
(15:35):
Random coincidences. I mean, can we always say with certainty that we are?
I don't know. But it felt like it was it felt real to me.
It feels real to me to this day when I do it.
And I just learned to maybe trust what was coming in, like I'd hear thoughts
(15:56):
or, you know, have suddenly like, oh, they need X, Y, Z right now.
So just kind of learned to lean into my intuition. I'm like,
okay, what is this critter that doesn't speak English?
Was it trying to communicate to me?
So I think that, Tasha, like it's, which is one, why else would these thoughts pop up?
(16:19):
Right so at some point you can right like why would
so i think that the same way that it's easy to shrug things off
and say yeah it's just random okay well if it's just
random why did this thought pop up it was never there before
right where did that come from right right so i think logic you know should
be applied equally the other way too right which is why is something i've never
(16:40):
thought of never you know now popping it and which then leads to the other thing
which i would think is important to talk about which is for you when you talk about it feels real.
It's really important.
I think everybody would agree with it. The more that everybody learned how to
develop their own kind of lie detector, right, the better things would be.
(17:01):
So, you know, I always want to share how everybody feels real or how they feel
danger, whatever it is, right?
So how do things, how do they feel, you know, real to you?
Yeah, I'm trying to, you know, I knew this question was coming,
so I'm trying to think in my mind.
What does it feel like it doesn't feel
forced and it no
(17:23):
for me I guess you could call it the claircognizance is it's just a knowing
it's just like I just know this is true just know this is true and then I'll
you know you test it out in some cases with claircognizance you can find out like, yes, this is true.
No, it's not. Right. So you can test it.
(17:45):
What else? I don't know. By the way, you and I could definitely do a segment
on just learning from animals.
I want to jump in and share with you one of the other things that I think is
really important. And this is where I think that people misunderstand.
If they either don't recognize the connectivity that you talk about,
or they're trying to gain the connectivity in a way that is,
(18:07):
how do I say, based on my experience, not the way that it really works.
Right so for example amongst humans if we were to talk to each other me we may have a desire to say,
oh let me test let me see can i ask ruby to come into this room right you know
and look but right and but like look you're talking to an animal why does that
what what is in it for that animal to come into the room right right like that's
(18:30):
what people like like animals are their own you know,
sentient beings of consciousness that are you know that are going out in their
own merry way wait, they're not here to amuse humans. They're not here as play toys, right?
And so I think, so expecting to be able to engage in a control,
using it to control, right, is definitely not going, you're right.
So if somebody's trying to go from that perspective, they're not going to see
(18:54):
the gifts and see the connect, right?
But if somebody is on to understand, well, what are the things that we kind of all have in common?
Well, I think generally speaking, everybody can understand compassionate kindness,
hunger, safety, fear, love.
Right. And, and then to the other part, and ideally what you,
(19:14):
what you can, what you can get lucky and you can find mutual curiosity,
which is the cat or the other animal is willing to kind of learn about you as
you are willing to learn about that.
Not, and they have personalities just like humans do. Right.
Like I got, you know, I have to have any given morning at 11 squirrels in my
bed and, you know, that, that we're hanging out with and, you know, all the 11,
(19:34):
five or six will come up to the back door and, you know, and come and get food,
but only three or four of those will actually be comfortable once I open up
the door and stay there and let me drop food. And that kind of recloses it. Right.
And even a couple. Yeah. And then there's, you know, one or two, they get really crazy.
That are the really, you know, eccentric ones who now start,
you know, who will randomly take food out of my, out of my hand without me noticing.
(19:58):
And now, well, you know, occasionally they climb on my screen door to let me
know that they're hungry, you know, kind of like their first knock on the door,
kind of going back to where you got had to be careful about feeding things and
so all right so i i learned through that to be very you know some but i learned
about better boundaries about you know.
Because and and i also was impressed by just like how animals like pets will
(20:21):
bite you but they recognize a gentleness to their bite or their touch that you
know that's like impressive,
you know i had the same interaction with the squirrel i you know micah caught
me off guard and she nipped me but you know she recognized it wasn't and i was
very impressed by you know,
no no not like recognizing it was my finger and not a nut and continuing to
bite through i was appreciative of the no blood draw right.
(20:46):
So anyways that's why i started laughing about that story when you were talking
about that because i was like you know i wasn't trying to you know i was just
trying to set it down but you know she's the crazy one so anyway it's it's she
is she's the one who always wants to push the boundaries and you know and all
that kind of stuff right so i think it's that's so to your point My thing has been like,
look, I think part of how to get that feedback.
(21:08):
Reference, it's looking at their behavior, right? Like I can,
when I open up the door, there are certain squirrels that will look up to me
and also come into the door like, oh, it's food time. Right.
And then you, and you like feel this little warmth in the heart,
right? You're like, oh, that felt nice.
I don't, right. Like I don't need to. And frankly, I don't care if that's the,
if that's the squirrel sensation or my sensation.
What I do know is that, is that they seem to be happy. They're coming forward.
(21:31):
I, you know, I got a little heart flutter. That makes me feel good. That's all I need.
I don't need to prove it to anybody else. right i
guess that's a great way to start my day yes it
is so you know that so like right
so thinking about right like is there anything else that you would kind of share with
people to help them better understand somebody you know their pets or you know
you know animal language based on or if they want to let me ask how about if
(21:55):
somebody wanted to try to figure it out for themselves right like hey how what
would be what would you give anybody that many advice of how to begin trying it out?
I mean, it starts with just observing the animal and noticing what do they do
and when and what they seem to want when they're giving you that cue.
(22:20):
So animals don't speak with words, obviously.
They speak with movements and behaviors. So especially a pet,
observe them, observe what they're doing.
And see if you can start to get some context clues and yeah i will say.
(22:41):
No that doesn't need to be said okay that's all
right no but so it's funny i know that you i know that you are thinking that
maybe some of these things aren't that fun to talk about or but i want to i
want to i want to but i want to give you i'm going to flip this the coin and
so i want to i'm going to go back i want to go all of those kids on the little
kids on the playground and i'm I'm going to say, hey, kids, you got a choice.
(23:03):
I'm going to give you this rubber ball. You can either throw it in that hoop
or you can throw it at each other, whatever amuses you.
Or you can come over here and you can watch and interact and engage with animals and actually hear them.
I'm going to bet you that there's going to be a lot more kids that are going
to be like, I want to learn how to hear what my bunny's saying.
(23:25):
Then running over and trying to figure out how they can have a better relationship
with their bunny than they are getting excited about hitting another kid,
you know, with the dad ball.
Yeah. So, you know, you know, so anyway, so I just, that's a,
that's a pretty cool thing that I think a lot of kids would have been jealous of if they know.
Let me ask, well, let me take that back to your point. Kids can be cruel and not believe.
(23:49):
So did you, did you keep that to yourself or were you open about,
about that aspect of yourself?
I probably just kept it to myself.
Not out of, I don't think out of fear of anything, but just,
this is just, doesn't everybody do this, you know?
This is just me and my connection with animals.
(24:11):
I do want to say you asked about, you know, something, what would I tell people who want to try this out?
And then you brought in the kid analogy.
And the first thing I thought of, the biggest thing for kids to learn is like, don't impose your will.
If it doesn't want to be picked up, don't pick it up, right?
Right. And I think that still goes no matter what age you are,
(24:32):
is it's not about imposing your will, you know, because there's there's things like animal training.
Right. Let's take dog dog training. You train your dog to do things.
Dogs are very treat motivated. So it's it's doable. Right.
You can train cats harder, but it is imposing your will on the animal.
(24:53):
And that's something that I have not been a fan on. I understand the value of dog training.
I do appreciate trained dogs. They're very well behaved.
And in my connection with animals, it's not about imposing my will.
So if they want to be left alone, I leave them alone.
And, you know, my curiosity doesn't trump their free will, you know, if that makes sense.
(25:17):
Not only does it make sense, I think that it probably is a rule that applies
to dealing with people. For sure.
I mean, I don't think anybody should go around trying to impose their free will on anybody else. Yeah.
It doesn't turn out well, usually. No. And I sure as shit don't think that strangers
should go around picking up people either.
(25:40):
Definitely not. Right. You know, I mean, it's really funny when you start to
ask, like, you know, you put yourself in the, anyway, yeah, I agree with you so much.
I think there's, look, I think that not imposing will, demonstrating respect,
operating out of curiosity and compassion of learning, you're not about,
(26:01):
like you said, not about making it what you want and figuring out about the end of the thing.
And that's a hard thing to do, quite frankly.
I don't care how old you are. to be able to, you know, to be able to just sit
and watch and observe, right?
And to be able to then go, okay, now how do I establish boundaries?
And that, I guess, you know, that's that. I mean, so how does that,
(26:24):
how did that kind of translate then over into your, the rest of your dealings
and how you experience kind of the world and people,
because your kind of default setting is already, is different, right?
And so you're having to make adjustments to kind of go into to a traditional setting?
Like me, right? Let me be clear.
(26:44):
How did you figure out how to,
How to be comfortable in your skin, getting out of the, getting away from nature
and, you know, going to high school, junior high, high school,
all those things where you just end up being around people.
How did you figure out how to maintain that balance? But also,
how did it make you more wise? That's probably the.
(27:05):
Because there was a lot of wisdom in this.
Honestly, I'm not trying to sound arrogant at all. I excelled in school.
Somehow it worked for me it was really
hard being indoors really hard
being indoors I did not enjoy that so like
(27:26):
PE was always my favorite and any opportunity I had
to play a sport instead of being indoors I
took that so school itself
wasn't as hard as the social aspect and
okay here's something you asked like what
what was an anchor I forgot about this in middle school
(27:46):
in high school I was in band and so I had music and
it was the most incredible thing it
especially in high school it became like family we
were a band family so we were the band nerds and you know okay this was my place
in high school society I'm a band nerd and I'm fine with that because I get
(28:06):
to play music and And I remember being in awe in band class of like,
here's a hundred of us teenagers,
some probably,
I don't know, let's just say different social groups.
And we're all coming together and creating something bigger than ourselves together.
And it's just absolutely beautiful.
(28:27):
So music, there's music again, helping me cope. So if school didn't,
if I didn't have music and sports in school, then it would have been a problem.
But I had a problem, you know, being around that many people all the time, all day.
(28:49):
I would go home and just like zonk out for hours. I slept.
I slept probably more than most people.
So if I wasn't if I wasn't in school if I wasn't playing sports if I wasn't
in playing music I was sleeping,
to recover from it from it all and have to do it again the next day and then
(29:12):
on the weekends I was sleeping.
By the way, shout out to the band kids, because I'll admit, back in high school,
right, I was like, I was not a band kid. You know, I was, I was more, I was a sports guy.
And because this is back, I had my mask, right? I was fitting in.
I thought I was doing what I was supposed to do.
I thought I was doing, you know, I was doing what Rod taught me.
(29:33):
Rod's the adult who I boarded me here on Earth.
He's taught me, right? Like, you know, masculine, you go, you go play sports, right?
Like, you know, that was that, you know, like the, you know,
kind of persona, right, that I knew to grow up in, right?
So it was, so I was like, you know, so I would go with people.
I didn't make fun of the band, but right. Like in my head, I'm a fan.
(29:54):
Right. Then about what my shadow is, when I went to, when I,
once I got into my career, I was like, all the cool people that I enjoy talking
with were all the band people, all the ones that have, all the ones that have
like good personalities,
great stories, enjoyable, that they're comfortable in their spirit.
Like, I'm like, anyway, like they were all the band kids. I didn't get anyway.
(30:15):
Anyway, and so that's why I got us just, you know, anyway, those are the,
in my opinion, you know, whether at least in the data science world and getting
to know, that's where that's where me, that's where I found the cool kids ended up.
I mean, me too. Yeah. The band was where it was at. It was the cool people.
And in my opinion, and it's like, we, we were the ones comfortable with it within our skin.
(30:37):
We weren't trying to be somebody we weren't. we just love music and it made
us feel whole would be my assumption based on how I felt,
and it it was it was a built-in community it's funny you said you bring up such an important,
shaping or molding moments that happens and you know as we grow up which is.
(31:04):
That it's interesting. I didn't even, I didn't literally just hit me as you
were talking about this, right?
Like I'm, I would say I, I spent my time trying to be cool, right.
Trying to fit in, trying to be popular, trying to be what I thought I was supposed to be. Right.
You know, like those types of things. Right.
And, you know, late and again, and now my throughout my, that's called my high school experience.
(31:25):
Yeah. That, that served me, that, that served me better than, you know,
some of the it's called the band kids or other people
that maybe weren't involved in athletics or or or
other things and then when
i got into the then when i got out of high school and where there was no longer
a you know where you're not you were you no longer are forced to be around people
(31:45):
you actually have a choice of who you are around and they have a choice to be
around you as well right you recognize like the outside world operates very
very differently and you know one of the
things that like, just like kind of for me, it would be like, like, I don't miss,
I don't miss not going to college because of having a diploma on the wall.
But to that point, what I did miss throughout my career though,
(32:06):
was the learning of how to, how to, how to understand people,
how to work in groups, the social aspects, right.
And, and how to be comfortable in your own skin versus trying to fit in.
And so I can't tell you how many times in my career,
I wish that I would have had the strong sense of self that i saw in people that
(32:28):
did the outlier stuff like band or otherwise and how much that really benefited them later on in life.
Because of that kind of grounding, self-confidence, right? Whatever, right?
Like you said, just figuring themselves out in a different way.
And quite frankly, what you want to call it, how that just sets you up better
(32:51):
for life than fitting in.
So I guess I don't have to say it, right? Or trying to fit in or wear that mask
or being not authentic because you're worried about what other people will say
or think or do, right? I miss that on so much fun.
Worried about that i'm sorry you missed out on that well i didn't i didn't think
(33:12):
that i missed out on until you just said something then you just made me realize
that i missed out on it you know i was doing all right well i again i'm being
honest about what you brought up and you know and,
right and understanding the science of you right and it just and it's funny
how we have one set of memories based on our things and sometimes we romanticize
our memories right to make ourselves feel good versus how they sometimes really
(33:32):
were and i'm being honest right i'm thinking myself Hey,
I would have been, you know, I, you know, I probably would have been better served.
You know what I mean? Dipping into that individuality better about myself.
So, and because of that, right, I can't do anything about what I did in the past.
So all that I can do now is say, Hey, band kids, anybody that,
you know, Hey, I can do now is give a shout out and props and explaining how anybody,
(33:56):
anybody who you're going to be better served in life, you know, is,
is, is, is give, is get, at least give a, give a pep top put
your kids in band to anybody who's just not even his band right so it's just
anybody who's doing something that is that gets treated as the fridge or that
doesn't get treated as the coolest thing to do or be a part of right because
(34:17):
that's going to change place to place you're a demo all that stuff's going to
be different right but it's anybody who's got the courage to just be themselves,
when the world is beating on you for not fitting in or when everyone's awkward
and gawky and trying to figure that out right and so let's let's use that right
now i'm on that same vein and say what what advice would you give your younger
self knowing what you know now experiencing, right?
(34:38):
Like I just kind of gave my, my self some, you know, younger self some advice.
What would you kind of do based on how you've seen the world be based on,
and think about too, like when you were a kid or growing up,
you had these fears, right.
Of, of what the world would be like, or if you weren't this way,
you would be excited, right. All the different truths that you told yourself.
And then you found out some of those fears were true.
(34:59):
And then you found out some of those fears were not true.
Are you referring to specific fears that I'm not remembering?
I'm just speaking to everybody.
I'm playing the odds that everybody had something that they were fearful of.
Yeah, okay. So there was, because people were mean and I was usually the new
kid and I was a shy introvert, I held myself back from participating in a few things.
(35:26):
All I can say maybe because I'm afraid kids would be mean to me or something.
I don't know. I don't know exactly. Exactly.
Really, you know, part of me was interested in trying other sports than the ones I played.
And I held myself back. So there were ways where I held myself back out of fear, and I wish I hadn't.
And so I would say, you know, especially, you know, looking back now as an adult,
(35:50):
whether you're instantly really great at the thing or not, it doesn't matter.
Just try it. I mean, when you're a kid, none of it matters. It's all just about
having fun and experimenting.
So I would tell my younger self, let yourself have more life experiences and
stop being a spectator as much as you are.
And I wasn't a complete spectator. I want to qualify that. I did a lot of activities that I enjoyed.
(36:17):
But there were ways where I realized that I was just being a spectator and not
letting myself try it out.
And that bit me in the butt later.
Yeah so how do you yeah so how would you tell your tell yourself and listeners now,
how to try to find that balance between knowing your happy place and challenging
(36:39):
you and your car like being in nature and being around things and then challenging
yourself though to still.
For still new things, right? And to still find out if there's other things that
also interest you, right? And to keep that going.
You know, it's been something that I've continued to this day of what am I really
wanting to do that I'm not letting myself have, that I'm not letting myself
(37:00):
do and giving myself permission,
you know, it's like, okay, well, you want to learn how to play a new musical
instrument, just take a couple lessons.
You don't have to commit for life. Just take a couple lessons.
See if you like it, if you want to follow through.
I can say one musical instrument I tried, I didn't like as much as I thought
(37:24):
I would. And so I feel okay dropping it.
Others, I'm very happy. I gave myself permission to pick them up as an adult.
So, yeah, just giving yourself permission, asking yourself, being in that inquiry
of what have I been yearning for that I'm not letting myself have?
(37:46):
And what's one way I can take a step towards that?
Not to overwhelm myself, but to just stop denying myself. Like,
what's the point of that?
Why am I denying myself? I'm the adult now of my life. I can choose what I want
to include and what I don't want to include.
(38:06):
So really getting in there and asking myself, what are all these shoulds about? What's the origin?
Is that really true?
And what do I really want to experience still?
How's that? I think that's great. That's a good segue into it.
How did that curious mind, and translate itself over into your career?
(38:35):
Or did it translate itself into your career choice or what you chose to do?
Probably. I have very eclectic interests.
I have a lot of curiosities and interests and love learning.
So that curiosity has led me to exploring different avenues in my career.
(39:00):
For instance, I knew that I wanted to help people, but on a holistic level.
So I knew that I would would want to study not just the mind,
but also the physical body and also the spirit, right?
And learn how to support people on all three levels, because we're not just a talking head.
(39:22):
We're not just our bodies. We're not just spirit.
So that, yeah, I think that has, that curiosity has led to me having a very
wide breadth in my career, if that makes sense.
Yeah and so where did you and so now
i want to use this because you know it seems like a good segue to
(39:43):
kind of talk about not since you just talked about right like maintain the
curious mind the having the fun the learning the exploring the eclectic interests
how those how those things served you in your in your professional role i think
it helps you know just like you were mentioning before it helps to stay curious
about my clients and not i mean on on one level as a
(40:07):
psychotherapist, I should not have an agenda. That is not my place to have an agenda.
So specifically, it's helped me to not have an agenda when I'm not supposed
to have one. But it definitely...
Helps me to be curious about, okay, what's who is this person in front of me?
What is it about them or their life that has them doing these self sabotaging
(40:30):
things, for instance, or not being able to get past a certain emotion?
How you know what tool out of my tool belt would serve them best?
I don't have a cookie cutter approach to clients. I like how could Could we? We're all different.
Some people do. That works for them. I don't.
(40:50):
I think, yeah, I think those are the two main ways.
Internal commercial breaks here on the podcast. But in this case,
we're making one because it's not that long ago I did the intro and I said,
hey, I'm putting the old me in the new places.
And through the conversation with Ruby, I can tell you that the old me and the
new places wasn't so good. And so there was there was there's not a need to
(41:13):
subject you guys to that to that learning experience that I went through.
So we're adjusting the interview, you know, to remove my unproductive learning
here and trying to literally just kind of creating a better segue.
Way and instead of trying to you know wear the same clothes and make it look
the same and put together this this concept of flawlessness that's just frankly
(41:36):
unrealistic to live up to because
life is messy especially if you're doing any sort of
personal work or trying to achieve
goals and stuff is messy and i'll i'll
share the story that i i hear music a bunch of
times because it really stuck out to me i don't know any of her
music but billy eilish i hope i said her name right it was
on the netflix thing and she and they were interviewing her about stuff and
(41:58):
and she just talked about i think it was something like it was
either something like 50 or 300 or something very some very
large number of samples that were used to actually create what was played on
the radio and i thought to myself wow so you're telling me that in order to
talk about setting an unrealistic expectation and the amount of work that actually
goes into creating quote-unquote a flawless few-minute song.
(42:21):
And if people think that that's reality...
I mean, talk about, you know, you drive yourself crazy trying to achieve that.
So I, so I can't contribute to that is the more, is the, is the,
this is where I'm getting to with that.
So I'm not going to try to pretend and do anything else because stuff's messy.
We're living and learning and that's what it's all about here.
So thankfully Ruby came back, we're wearing different clothes and you know,
(42:41):
those must have been serious and it is what it is.
And we're, you know, and we're in a better place having kind of just put a little
bow here on our last interview.
And so, and so I think what's a great kind of question to take us from how we
started to where we did some of the great conversation we got to was how to
walk us through how you kind of came from,
(43:02):
you know, how you kind of came into you.
Right. I think as you know, and you being where you felt your,
you know, your, where you felt your sense of belonging or your comfort zone.
Walk you through. Wow. I'll give you, I'll give you the short version. Yeah.
Yeah. So, you know, As I mentioned, I moved a lot and was the new kid a lot.
(43:24):
So there was a lot of solitude in my life and parents working.
And luckily, I lived in a climate where it was pleasant to be outdoors a lot.
And I didn't feel so much belonging with the other people, with other humans,
with other kids my age because they haven't accepted me yet into their circles.
(43:50):
As a new kid so I really
I don't know if it was so much of a realization or
a decision like well I belong to myself and I belong to nature because that's
my happy place and you know I I watched my fair share of television as a as
a child but I really really found myself just much more in awe
(44:16):
and delight and whimsy and imagination when I was outdoors.
And so I spent as much time outdoors as I could and really felt that kinship
with Mother Nature, with the animals.
So that really became, I guess you could say, my anchor.
(44:36):
My anchor throughout it all was having my connection to nature.
And so if you had to guess, ballpark, how old were you, do you think,
when you kind of came to this realization about yourself or at least found yourself,
you know, kind of gravitating more towards nature versus the playground?
Always.
(44:57):
It's interesting because I do have lots of memories of anytime we drove by a
playground, I would be like, stop the car. I want to go play.
And I would go around and be like, will you play with me? Will you play with
me? Will you play with me?
And sometimes I get takers and sometimes you don't.
And I wasn't avoiding humans altogether,
(45:18):
but just found myself a lot
of times feeling left out it was it was a sense of feeling left
out it's like well i'll go play by myself then i'll
go play with the rocks i'll go i you know as adventurous i
like to climb rocks and climb trees and you know
ride my bike across streams and stuff yeah did
(45:39):
i i forgot the question no no no you answered the question which was just kind
of how you kind of came to that place i would just was you know like every time
i talk to anybody and they give me their perspective about things it also allows
me or it gives me something many times it causes me to pause and
reflect and see some of my childhood right through a different set
of lenses and so as you're talking i'm you know i
(46:02):
you know it's very interesting because i if somebody were to ask me i never
would have thought i would be like oh yeah i was always playing with people
and had tons of friends and all these other things but it was like well there
that was the case at certain parts of my of my of my youth and there was the
case when it was let's say during school hours.
But then after school was different and when
it was non-sports let me take that back when it was sports related it was
(46:25):
one thing but if it was non-sports related then it was then then there was then
there wasn't so much that same that i wasn't being invited in i guess right
and i know and so it's funny yourself and somebody else had you know i'd said
some things that maybe i said wow think about it i guess maybe i did have a
little more solitary channel than what i realized yeah.
Anyway and except for you you know early
(46:47):
on in your life found your way in nature late in my life kind of found my i
guess that's where i found my way you know to there and so what i would ask
you is when you kind of think about a sense of belonging or a kinship or where
it just feels more comfortable right and maybe that's maybe that's what the
answer is but do you i do do you
have, you know, any sort of way that you would kind of say,
(47:12):
at least maybe, you know, knowing it now, I mean, I've not known it then,
but how you recognize that you just felt different in like the different environments
and how one just kind of felt more comfortable than another?
Or is it literally like one of those, I just feel it, but I don't know how to explain it?
Yeah, yeah. I definitely could identify body senses. You know,
(47:34):
anytime I was in nature, it was that like tingly butterflies in the stomach,
that awe of like, oh, look at this place.
Look at the moss. Look at, you know, look at the tree bark. Look at the animals over there.
It was just this like, I can't wait to explore and, you know,
commune here or just lay on a rock, you know.
(47:56):
Know, with, with people, you know, depending on the people, it,
it was harder to feel that kinship.
And, you know, a lot of times kids are mean.
And so it's just like, oh, oh, being around that energy just feels like,
oh, I don't, I don't like that. And,
Would rather just go where it feels good. And it always felt good outdoors and nature.
(48:21):
Well, I think you just helped. Well, psychotherapist, is that correct? Mm-hmm.
Okay. So, well, thank you, psychotherapist friend Ruby.
You just helped me understand why I got drawn to sports at such a young age,
even though I was not necessarily, even though I don't prefer to be an aggressive person.
(48:42):
And you're right. That was how I found my sense of belonging, right?
Both, you know, Rod, the adult that I was responsible for incarnating,
you know, me as a consciousness here.
Definitely the way to gain acceptance from him, right, was through performance,
achievement, things like that.
He was your traditional, you know, what do you call it?
(49:05):
Traditional masculinity, right? He wanted me to go out in the woods and go carry
the canoe over our heads and bring all of our stuff in packs,
that kind of stuff. That was totally not me. He did not.
Well, good. Yeah, he definitely was not. He was definitely looking at me going,
(49:26):
where the heck did you come from?
Right. And then as well, right, this place of belonging was that I was happened
to be very, you know, very athletic.
Or have a lot of athleticism as a youth and probably was more athletic than others younger in life.
And so, you know, people wanted to win. And so therefore the belonging came,
(49:47):
you know, by wanting me on the team because they wanted to win.
So I found myself really then anchoring into that, identifying that, what do you call it?
Some value, right? In being, trying to provide and do.
And so, you know, that, that, you know, me wasn't what was
being accepted but what i could had to offer was good so
(50:09):
anyway so now i understand how i got into sports anyway so there
you go so thanks for that thanks for that free session helping the
youth right there my pleasure
my pleasure and i i want to i want to speak to the
dad part i have to give my dad credit my dad is very
outdoorsy and i probably got
my love of nature from him and you know from him taking me
(50:31):
camping and and just being outdoors
a lot and introducing me to nature so
that and that came from him yeah that's
so fascinating because and as you said ago why didn't i
get that and i and i i think i mean so i don't know so at least in in my scenario
like the way that i interact and the reason why i very much learn nature and
(50:56):
animals are such a a place of learning for me is because I'm looking at them
as a place of cooperation.
I'm understanding that they have much to teach me, much to learn from them, right?
As they represent the creator's wisdom, frankly, right?
I mean, it's this beautiful attribution model that we exist in.
And everything has its function and its purpose and its beauty.
(51:19):
And just watching the enjoyment of watching all of these things just be themselves.
And there's just a joy in that authenticity that they represent, right?
But the way that I was introduced into nature, though, was more of me man, me king of woods.
(51:40):
Let me come and hunt and kill things.
Whoa, ooga booga, right? I know I'm kind of probably being an ass in the way
that I'm describing that masculine, you know, at that.
That's a different type of outdoorsman. Yeah, that definitely was the outdoorsy guy my dad is.
So we got two different outdoorsmen, but very, very, very different ways of being outdoors.
(52:03):
Yeah, mine were definitely, yeah. So it was not, I did not find enjoyment, right?
It was not serene for me. It was, it was, it was anything was kind of more,
more traumatic because I didn't understand this need and desire of this approach
of trying to control everything.
Right. And this, and this, a dominance and that just that persona. Right.
And so anyway, before I go down too much of my, you know, unpacking,
(52:23):
you know, my childhood here on the podcast, we're going to, we're going to just
hit reverse and bring this back to you here.
Right. And so, and so, all right. So all of your life, you found that.
And so like, what were some ways that, so like you're for me.
When I have decisions to make, right? Like I'll find myself just going to nature
and just my mind wanders and somehow answers find their way in.
(52:46):
So how did you, so how was it that you were able to, how did you leverage your
relationships with nature to kind of balance, you know, all of our overall life, right?
Like we all have our, we all have our places where we'd like to go to,
let's say we're feeling stressed or looking for answers.
And so how did nature like play a factor for you like that? or how else maybe would,
(53:08):
were you able to, you know, to leverage it to improve the quality of your life?
Well, I was definitely outdoors if I wasn't in school.
If it was daytime and I wasn't in school, I was outdoors.
You know, I come from the generation, probably the last generation,
I think that parents would say, don't come home until dark.
(53:32):
So that, you know, getting as much outdoor time as
possible it was such a bummer when you
get old enough where you don't get recess anymore like recess was
my saving grace during grade school they shouldn't
have taken that away I think they you know just like we need the
arts we need music we need creativity we need outdoor time throughout our school
day so having that and and then the sports they played I guess like I was on
(53:59):
the swim team so we had an outdoor natatorium for part of the year they had
a cover over it during the winter,
but I got to be outdoors every day of school, swimming and water.
Water to me is very cleansing, very healing, very grounding.
And so I'd be swimming laps and processing thoughts or meditating.
(54:25):
It gets meditative when you're doing it for a while.
So I think that served me very
well if i didn't have that in school or
some sort of creative outlet it wouldn't
have gone as well as it did probably yeah i
would have definitely benefited from having that outlet i was pretty much toast
(54:46):
after about fifth sixth grade my ability to to coexist in that much without
because i didn't understand my wiring i had no idea how much you know how sensitive
i was all all of the energies and everything around me.
And it was just so overload constantly where I, I essentially slept my way through high school.
(55:07):
So. Oh yeah. I slept a lot too.
There's a lot of sleeping going on. Yeah. What was I going to say also?
Yeah. So before high school, it was dance.
So having, having a creative outlet, having physical movement for my body,
I know not everybody's into sports. So I don't know if that's like a one-size-fits-all,
(55:32):
but for me, it worked so well.
To move the energy physically through dance, through sports,
and then creativity, it just made all the difference in the world.
Oh, I agree. I mean, there's, I know it's, it's, it's, it's so,
(55:52):
it's so funny how so many things like that I, that I, I find to be really calming, peaceful,
uh, actually in second nature to me or inherent to me when I allow myself to
just be such as, then I wouldn't have done like as a kid, right?
Like such as dance or just movement and understanding and appreciating the need
and the value for that, as well as also understanding the need for sleep, right?
(56:15):
When you're wired to be more sensitive to read things right like you gotta you
gotta take care of your batteries.
Absolutely and i was not afraid to like
defend my sleep i i still get teased
to this day for how much i slept you know
as a kid that i'm like hey i
i needed that sleep to be
(56:38):
able to function with humans and i
was not willing to compromise that that was my line is like
i will not compromise my sleep yeah i
i took a nap earlier today yeah i'm a i'm a
big fan if the body's grooved
but the body wants to sleep and needs rest you know and thank you
again ruby for coming sharing your
(56:59):
story the first go around coming back again to share more
of it and in doing so it also i was reminded that i think you have an event
or something as well coming up so if yeah if please share that yes i do thank
you i am leading a yoga and sailing retreat in croatia.
(57:21):
Croatia is just across the adriatic sea from
the eastern coast of italy for those of you who may not
know and that is september 7 to
14 of this year and i still
have room on my boat we're going we're going to be sailing
a different sailing to a different island each day for a week seven
days seven nights exploring what each island
(57:43):
has to offer so many fun
you know exploring sea caves snorkeling paddle boarding biking in national parks
there's the monasteries a castle there's you know wineries there's good local
cuisine it'll be a fun adventure so if you're into a fun adventure i invite
you to join me we'll have the link at the bottom for you.
(58:05):
I'm so jealous. Well, come on. There's room on my boat. Tom.
Well, this gets back to the people and the nature thing. This is where,
like, this is what you just described is, like, is one of my bucket list items
that just happens to be me and a captain.
Being a captain? Maybe another, maybe just, or maybe just me, a captain, and a crew.
(58:27):
Because, you know, I'm a very experiential learner.
And I, you know, I just, I learn my own way. And I just find that I,
and I'm, and I tend to be very comfortable than doing that in isolation or solitary versus groups.
So anyway, so I'm very, I will admit that I think that is like,
I think it's, it sounds like such an amazing time, such an awesome and amazing experience.
(58:49):
And I think that's so fantastic that you are putting that together for people.
So if I get past, you know, who knows, maybe when I'm, you know,
more comfortable, but anyway, I'll have to talk to you offline,
maybe about, maybe you can help me to figure out how to do that because yeah.
Yet yeah i've been getting coffee i've been feeling drawn to back to the water
to our to some of our earlier conversation
as well here in as part of this next chapter in my life and so.
(59:12):
Yeah anyway so i by the way well i guess my last thing did you
ever see captain ron the movie captain ron with cuttings kurt
russell i don't think so i don't know
anyway for anybody who is listening that does know
captain ron okay similar to this family movies
except for as run like the caribbean sea you know
crazy captain and stuff in the family but you
(59:34):
can just live it on a boat right it's you know it's it's it's it just i
just always enjoy that in in that sense of
freedom that it's you know again wanting to wanting to
experience it right is it a it's like you know i
know it's not it's not all fun and games and i know that
there's some romanticizing of it but it's one of those things where it's like you want
to be able to experience it though right instead of just i don't want to take
(59:54):
a movie you know word for it right or somebody else's so anyway it'll definitely
be an adventure so all right well thank you everybody for for for tuning in
here this week and until next time have yourselves a great week.
All right, welcome listeners to another edition of Understanding the Science
of You podcast, where we are focused on having real and genuine,
authentic conversations to help you break out of the molds that are holding
you back and build bridges to your most productive selves.
And today's podcast is a little different. I'm incorporating a little bit of
science in myself and understanding it here today.
(00:20):
So for those of you that are watching this on video, you'll notice that I'm
wearing a sports jacket and button down, and like Kenzie, I'm going to also wear slacks.
You know, which would have been my traditional, what do you want to call it,
business attire, right, in my prior life.
And I found myself last week being my new self in old places.
(00:42):
And it was a very, very interesting feeling and that type of connectivity and
just, you know, I guess the information that my body, you know,
was telling me about what felt right, what felt comfortable,
what was fun, what wasn't fun, right?
And it was very different. And so I I thought, you know what, today's guest, Ruby,
is one of the few people that actually only knows me since I've taken on a,
(01:06):
I'll just call it, I don't know, a flip chapter, my own journey,
a more spiritual self, whatever the right term is, and not the business grant.
And so I thought it'd be very interesting to see how I found my old business
attire, somebody who knows me in my spiritual attire.
(01:27):
And trying to see how that went, how that affected me in the conversation.
And can I still kind of get my woo on just the same way?
Or is it kind of, you know, does it alter my mindset a little bit and taking
me back to the old ways, right?
So I'm kind of, so now I'm bringing this time, I'm bringing my old self to my new places.
And so, you know, and so I'm curious to, to see how that goes.
One of the things that makes today very exciting for me and Ruby joining us
(01:50):
is Ruby was the very first person that I ever experienced.
I don't know what he would call my psychic gifts with. And so,
you know, she provided a very safe space to, to live or to learn and explore these things, right?
Like when you're a kid playing sports, right? Like I was, I'd go to,
(02:10):
you know, basketball practice.
This is before everybody hit the real sport. For those of you who don't know,
I'm a short guy. So that's why, you know, basketball, you know,
became no bueno after junior high.
But before that, it was a thing, right? And, you know, so you'd go out and you'd
play with your friends and, right? And you, and you knew how to work on your
athleticism, right? Right.
Well, if you've got spiritual gifts or psychism or other things like that,
right, they don't really have those same kind of things where you just go to
(02:31):
your neighborhood and your friends and you go hang out in the backyard and figure
out how to work on these things together.
Right. And so, you know, I learned that aspect, sort of learned that aspect of myself with Ruby.
And so I started to write down a few of the ways that we kind of practice our
different skills together.
One was just like channeling information for guidance and problem solving,
(02:52):
channeling entities like relatives. The very first time I ever did anything,
I was channeling a relative for you and being able to experience those emotions
as well and visualizing that.
That was quite the experience for me as well. And then remote viewing.
We've done that and then the historical.
And you taught me at that time to speak up because I said plushed animals when I really saw a unicorn.
(03:15):
And then in conversation later, you were like, yeah, I had a unicorn.
I'm like, I saw that, but I don't want to say anything.
Thing and so that taught me to recognize hey sometimes stuff
isn't going to make sense when you're seeing it's not meant for me right and so
that way that was a really cool thing also helping to be
able to channel the higher selves and and to get the
feedback that we're not necessarily hearing medical intuition being all you
(03:35):
know our personal favorite is the animal intuition being able to understand
and connect with the animal energies and and that's in the communicating between
consciousnesses and and both expanding consciousnesses right and and and all of everything
I just talked about is helping you expand your consciousness and understanding
that and being comfortable with that.
And then all the different claribilities, right? I mean, I thought I started
making this list. I was like, wow, we were, you know, just for just messing
(03:57):
around and we really covered a whole lot of different stuff and we're able to
do a lot of really cool different things.
And while a lot of that stuff isn't necessarily like, Oh my gosh,
this is how it translates into, um,
practical day-to-day living while they're, I can definitely go down that path
for today's conversation though.
The thing that was like the most cool for me about all of that was like,
when we talk about understanding the science of you, I was like,
(04:18):
holy cow, there's this entire magical mystery word out there that like really exists.
I didn't even know, I wasn't even aware of it, let alone did I realize that
the ability to kind of tap it and understand,
because the way that I understood things based on sci-fi movies or pop culture,
or even my own belief system, I never considered myself as having any type of,
you know, different sensitivities to energies and things like that.
(04:42):
And so anyway, so now being able to have both of my selves together here,
I don't know, it's quite interesting. So Ruby, hey, thank you so much for always
providing that safe space.
And so I know that was like a way long intro, but I was really appreciate you
coming on because, you know, look, you've been very open and vulnerable with
(05:03):
me in a lot of ways, which I truly appreciate.
And I think that you and your stories and what you've learned and what you're
still learning about, there's a lot that listeners will have to take from that, right?
Because I think it's also important for people to understand that,
look, it's not about having everything figured out.
A lot of times it's also about, you know what I mean? Like, hey,
(05:24):
you got some stuff figured out, but a lot of life is figuring out new stuff
and continuing to figure out new stuff, right? Right.
And so I think like for, for me and us and how this kind of like those different,
you know, abilities or understandings, that's just about understanding the science
of you and being excited about how much more there is to always know and how
much more there is to explore.
And so I, so I want to just thank you in advance for allowing listeners to explore
(05:46):
a little bit through you today.
So I'm going to now pause because I've talked way more than I want to and say,
Hey, you know, talk a little bit about yourself and kind of where you grew up and,
And, you know, just to kind of help to shape the little bit of identity so that
people can understand how you were started and what those kind of what was normal
to kind of where you gravitated towards so they can understand that contrast
(06:09):
in your, you know, just stepping into self.
Yeah, that's a big question. Hey, hey, everybody. Thank you for having me, Graham.
And, you know, first thing I want to say, it is so cliche, but when you you
were talking about, you know, we don't have to have it all figured out.
I can tell you, I have felt the more that I've learned and figured out the more
I realized I don't know and don't have figured out.
(06:31):
And I think that's the way it's supposed to be. So if anybody's feeling like,
oh, my God, I don't have it all figured out.
You're par for the course. It's you're doing good.
Oh my gosh okay where my beginnings
my origin story I would say some of
the most impactful things on my childhood was divorce of my parents and moving
(06:54):
around a lot and that that happened for a variety of reasons large variety of
reasons but I moved every one to two years up until high school.
I got to spend high school at the same place.
And that really, that and being an only child, I was on my own a lot to figure
(07:16):
things out because, well, nobody likes the new kid, right? Until they warm up to you.
So I was always the new kid. And.
Didn't always have friends to play with. When I did make friends, it was awesome.
But over and over again, I was the new kid.
And that's, that really solidified this concept that life is full of uncertainty.
(07:46):
And having to be with uncertainty as a part of life,
not necessarily fitting in for some
people as a part of life it helped me make peace
with that being the new kids like I there's only
so much I can do here especially if
I know I'm not going to be here long so it kind of just made me instead of really
(08:10):
try I guess some people might have really tried to fit in I found that exhausting
I'm an introvert I'm a highly sensitive person then I instead just chose to embrace who I am.
And I'm weird and different.
And not everybody's going to like me. Now, does it still hurt my feelings when people don't like me?
(08:34):
Yeah, yeah, it still does. But I know it's just the way that it is.
You know, we're not for everybody, body nobody not everybody's
going to resonate with with who I am and yeah
I learned to be okay with it am I answering your question I'm I'm well
yeah I mean look this is your life and how you've led it so kind of like anything
(08:55):
that you whatever you say is the is an actual is an answer so no stress don't
worry about it the but I do what one thing I do want to I do want to kind of
expand a little bit though so with moving around did you have anything that
you were able to anchor into to with community,
such as like some people would have like a church or a religion or a philosophy
or something like that, that maybe they grew up in that was a consistent when they moved.
(09:20):
Did you have anything like that, that you were kind of taught or brought into,
or were you literally always a kite in the wind, so to speak?
I felt like a kite in the wind. And I would say maybe the only anchor was my grandparents' house.
That was the same until they both died in their 90s. So they were around a long time.
(09:42):
That was the only anchor. And I didn't always live near their house.
So kite in the wind with an anchor of grandparents.
And the beautiful thing of the grandparents is that they would always tell me,
this is your home no matter what. but you are always welcome here. You are so loved.
And that was my saving grace in a lot of ways.
(10:03):
And so, like you said, so like you were talking about, having a lot of memories,
you know, as a kid, like it's hard to figure out why we chose different paths or whatever.
So I'm going to focus on that. But how did you kind of understand maybe the
way that you, yourself to be maybe different than others, right?
Maybe the way that you either experienced the world, the interest
(10:23):
that you had that kind of led you down the
path of taking on a more introspective
approach of of choosing to be with nature to find some of your happy places
versus trying to figure out how to fit in everywhere you want how did you get
to that place yeah i think it was just kind of the forced solitude whether that
(10:45):
was you know being an only child don't have any siblings to to play with,
the parents busy, not having made friends yet because I'm a new person.
And kids, kids are really mean to new people. They don't really take to other kids quickly.
I guess it depends on the age, the younger ages maybe.
So it was, well, okay, how am I going to entertain myself?
(11:09):
I liked reading and I liked music. So I was very often with my nose in a book
in a totally different world, listening to my Walkman.
And, and then, yeah, nature is quiet, peaceful, you hear animals,
you connect with animals, you, you know, the animals are curious,
(11:31):
some of them, the rest ignore you, right?
So there's, I guess I felt like I had enough for we're connecting with the animals.
And so that, that intrigued me. And that drew me outdoors.
I really, really, really wanted to have an imaginary friend,
but I just kept forgetting about them. I just I didn't understand.
(11:54):
Yeah, I didn't understand how my friends had, you know, imaginary friends.
I was just like, I, I like after five minutes, I forget, I'm supposed to have
an imaginary friend with me.
So that didn't work out. But yeah, playing, I love, you know, I grew up camping a lot.
So I loved exploring, climbing rocks, climbing trees.
(12:17):
It just, it was a world I could escape into that didn't have mean people in it.
And so how do you, do you happen to remember? Cause that's like,
how did, did you, do you happen to remember any moments when you felt a connectivity
with nature or animals, right?
Something, you know, and it could have been like you said, an animal coming
(12:38):
up to you, right? And you just kind of be like, whoa.
And like, wow, you're like, wow, that felt awesome.
I mean probably the first memory is
like getting a squirrel to eat out of my hand as a as like
a six-year-old is the coolest thing ever that is
pretty cool so how did so so do you so how did that so how
(12:58):
does that happen as a six-year-old like yeah it was like honestly I'm
sure I was not the first person to offer that squirrel food
they were they were in the know that this place was
you know potentially full of humans bearing food
so I can't take full credit for that but
it was a really cool experience of I
think my uncle saying hey take this cracker and offer it to the squirrel and
(13:23):
I was like really they'll eat out of my hand and he did you know that's probably
I mean isn't that everybody's first experience with animals A squirrel in a park.
I know I've never once in my, I can honestly tell you my, up until even now,
I still never thought about walking in the park and feeding a squirrel. Oh my gosh. Okay.
(13:46):
I don't mean, as you know, I spend my, you know, my morning time doing that at my yard.
Right. But you know, you know, that's our own little space together.
That's the, you know, that's, that's a, and yeah, I had to, I,
I, yeah, that, that, that eating out of the hand opens up a whole,
yeah, a whole new can of worms. So did you continue to, yeah.
And did you continue to do that? Or like, how did, how does that evolve?
(14:07):
Because that's a pretty, I mean, that's a pretty meaningful engagement as a
young child to have with a, with a non-pet, right?
And to have that type of connectivity. And like you said, that imagination, like, is that possible?
That just totally made what's possible to your, to your, to your little brain, like, whoa.
So then what? Where does, where does, where does that new confidence go from there?
(14:30):
Well, I also always had usually a cat, sometimes a dog.
And then my grandmother, the one I mentioned earlier, she always put food and
water out for the wild animals.
So I had this model of, you know, caring for animals.
I always had pets near me and I noticed like the pets, I learned how,
(14:52):
you know, I learned cat language, you know, I learned how to communicate with the cat.
I noticed that when I was sick or didn't feel good, they would get really snuggly with me.
And so I noticed more how they were attuning to me. And so I started attuning
to them more, if that makes sense.
So let's talk about that. Yes. Yeah, here we go.
(15:14):
So we talk about, because I think this is one of those examples,
right, where people are like, I don't know, like I don't talk to cats or I don't
talk to animals. Well, you might be surprised what you pick up on, right?
But you just didn't recognize that you were picking up on it.
So how do you know that you are, like this, you know, how do you know that you're
communicating with them versus just being, let's say, random stuff?
(15:35):
Random coincidences. I mean, can we always say with certainty that we are?
I don't know. But it felt like it was it felt real to me.
It feels real to me to this day when I do it.
And I just learned to maybe trust what was coming in, like I'd hear thoughts
(15:56):
or, you know, have suddenly like, oh, they need X, Y, Z right now.
So just kind of learned to lean into my intuition. I'm like,
okay, what is this critter that doesn't speak English?
Was it trying to communicate to me?
So I think that, Tasha, like it's, which is one, why else would these thoughts pop up?
(16:19):
Right so at some point you can right like why would
so i think that the same way that it's easy to shrug things off
and say yeah it's just random okay well if it's just
random why did this thought pop up it was never there before
right where did that come from right right so i think logic you know should
be applied equally the other way too right which is why is something i've never
(16:40):
thought of never you know now popping it and which then leads to the other thing
which i would think is important to talk about which is for you when you talk about it feels real.
It's really important.
I think everybody would agree with it. The more that everybody learned how to
develop their own kind of lie detector, right, the better things would be.
(17:01):
So, you know, I always want to share how everybody feels real or how they feel
danger, whatever it is, right?
So how do things, how do they feel, you know, real to you?
Yeah, I'm trying to, you know, I knew this question was coming,
so I'm trying to think in my mind.
What does it feel like it doesn't feel
forced and it no
(17:23):
for me I guess you could call it the claircognizance is it's just a knowing
it's just like I just know this is true just know this is true and then I'll
you know you test it out in some cases with claircognizance you can find out like, yes, this is true.
No, it's not. Right. So you can test it.
(17:45):
What else? I don't know. By the way, you and I could definitely do a segment
on just learning from animals.
I want to jump in and share with you one of the other things that I think is
really important. And this is where I think that people misunderstand.
If they either don't recognize the connectivity that you talk about,
or they're trying to gain the connectivity in a way that is,
(18:07):
how do I say, based on my experience, not the way that it really works.
Right so for example amongst humans if we were to talk to each other me we may have a desire to say,
oh let me test let me see can i ask ruby to come into this room right you know
and look but right and but like look you're talking to an animal why does that
what what is in it for that animal to come into the room right right like that's
(18:30):
what people like like animals are their own you know,
sentient beings of consciousness that are you know that are going out in their
own merry way wait, they're not here to amuse humans. They're not here as play toys, right?
And so I think, so expecting to be able to engage in a control,
using it to control, right, is definitely not going, you're right.
So if somebody's trying to go from that perspective, they're not going to see
(18:54):
the gifts and see the connect, right?
But if somebody is on to understand, well, what are the things that we kind of all have in common?
Well, I think generally speaking, everybody can understand compassionate kindness,
hunger, safety, fear, love.
Right. And, and then to the other part, and ideally what you,
(19:14):
what you can, what you can get lucky and you can find mutual curiosity,
which is the cat or the other animal is willing to kind of learn about you as
you are willing to learn about that.
Not, and they have personalities just like humans do. Right.
Like I got, you know, I have to have any given morning at 11 squirrels in my
bed and, you know, that, that we're hanging out with and, you know, all the 11,
(19:34):
five or six will come up to the back door and, you know, and come and get food,
but only three or four of those will actually be comfortable once I open up
the door and stay there and let me drop food. And that kind of recloses it. Right.
And even a couple. Yeah. And then there's, you know, one or two, they get really crazy.
That are the really, you know, eccentric ones who now start,
you know, who will randomly take food out of my, out of my hand without me noticing.
(19:58):
And now, well, you know, occasionally they climb on my screen door to let me
know that they're hungry, you know, kind of like their first knock on the door,
kind of going back to where you got had to be careful about feeding things and
so all right so i i learned through that to be very you know some but i learned
about better boundaries about you know.
Because and and i also was impressed by just like how animals like pets will
(20:21):
bite you but they recognize a gentleness to their bite or their touch that you
know that's like impressive,
you know i had the same interaction with the squirrel i you know micah caught
me off guard and she nipped me but you know she recognized it wasn't and i was
very impressed by you know,
no no not like recognizing it was my finger and not a nut and continuing to
bite through i was appreciative of the no blood draw right.
(20:46):
So anyways that's why i started laughing about that story when you were talking
about that because i was like you know i wasn't trying to you know i was just
trying to set it down but you know she's the crazy one so anyway it's it's she
is she's the one who always wants to push the boundaries and you know and all
that kind of stuff right so i think it's that's so to your point My thing has been like,
look, I think part of how to get that feedback.
(21:08):
Reference, it's looking at their behavior, right? Like I can,
when I open up the door, there are certain squirrels that will look up to me
and also come into the door like, oh, it's food time. Right.
And then you, and you like feel this little warmth in the heart,
right? You're like, oh, that felt nice.
I don't, right. Like I don't need to. And frankly, I don't care if that's the,
if that's the squirrel sensation or my sensation.
What I do know is that, is that they seem to be happy. They're coming forward.
(21:31):
I, you know, I got a little heart flutter. That makes me feel good. That's all I need.
I don't need to prove it to anybody else. right i
guess that's a great way to start my day yes it
is so you know that so like right
so thinking about right like is there anything else that you would kind of share with
people to help them better understand somebody you know their pets or you know
you know animal language based on or if they want to let me ask how about if
(21:55):
somebody wanted to try to figure it out for themselves right like hey how what
would be what would you give anybody that many advice of how to begin trying it out?
I mean, it starts with just observing the animal and noticing what do they do
and when and what they seem to want when they're giving you that cue.
(22:20):
So animals don't speak with words, obviously.
They speak with movements and behaviors. So especially a pet,
observe them, observe what they're doing.
And see if you can start to get some context clues and yeah i will say.
(22:41):
No that doesn't need to be said okay that's all
right no but so it's funny i know that you i know that you are thinking that
maybe some of these things aren't that fun to talk about or but i want to i
want to i want to but i want to give you i'm going to flip this the coin and
so i want to i'm going to go back i want to go all of those kids on the little
kids on the playground and i'm I'm going to say, hey, kids, you got a choice.
(23:03):
I'm going to give you this rubber ball. You can either throw it in that hoop
or you can throw it at each other, whatever amuses you.
Or you can come over here and you can watch and interact and engage with animals and actually hear them.
I'm going to bet you that there's going to be a lot more kids that are going
to be like, I want to learn how to hear what my bunny's saying.
(23:25):
Then running over and trying to figure out how they can have a better relationship
with their bunny than they are getting excited about hitting another kid,
you know, with the dad ball.
Yeah. So, you know, you know, so anyway, so I just, that's a,
that's a pretty cool thing that I think a lot of kids would have been jealous of if they know.
Let me ask, well, let me take that back to your point. Kids can be cruel and not believe.
(23:49):
So did you, did you keep that to yourself or were you open about,
about that aspect of yourself?
I probably just kept it to myself.
Not out of, I don't think out of fear of anything, but just,
this is just, doesn't everybody do this, you know?
This is just me and my connection with animals.
(24:11):
I do want to say you asked about, you know, something, what would I tell people who want to try this out?
And then you brought in the kid analogy.
And the first thing I thought of, the biggest thing for kids to learn is like, don't impose your will.
If it doesn't want to be picked up, don't pick it up, right?
Right. And I think that still goes no matter what age you are,
(24:32):
is it's not about imposing your will, you know, because there's there's things like animal training.
Right. Let's take dog dog training. You train your dog to do things.
Dogs are very treat motivated. So it's it's doable. Right.
You can train cats harder, but it is imposing your will on the animal.
(24:53):
And that's something that I have not been a fan on. I understand the value of dog training.
I do appreciate trained dogs. They're very well behaved.
And in my connection with animals, it's not about imposing my will.
So if they want to be left alone, I leave them alone.
And, you know, my curiosity doesn't trump their free will, you know, if that makes sense.
(25:17):
Not only does it make sense, I think that it probably is a rule that applies
to dealing with people. For sure.
I mean, I don't think anybody should go around trying to impose their free will on anybody else. Yeah.
It doesn't turn out well, usually. No. And I sure as shit don't think that strangers
should go around picking up people either.
(25:40):
Definitely not. Right. You know, I mean, it's really funny when you start to
ask, like, you know, you put yourself in the, anyway, yeah, I agree with you so much.
I think there's, look, I think that not imposing will, demonstrating respect,
operating out of curiosity and compassion of learning, you're not about,
(26:01):
like you said, not about making it what you want and figuring out about the end of the thing.
And that's a hard thing to do, quite frankly.
I don't care how old you are. to be able to, you know, to be able to just sit
and watch and observe, right?
And to be able to then go, okay, now how do I establish boundaries?
And that, I guess, you know, that's that. I mean, so how does that,
(26:24):
how did that kind of translate then over into your, the rest of your dealings
and how you experience kind of the world and people,
because your kind of default setting is already, is different, right?
And so you're having to make adjustments to kind of go into to a traditional setting?
Like me, right? Let me be clear.
(26:44):
How did you figure out how to,
How to be comfortable in your skin, getting out of the, getting away from nature
and, you know, going to high school, junior high, high school,
all those things where you just end up being around people.
How did you figure out how to maintain that balance? But also,
how did it make you more wise? That's probably the.
(27:05):
Because there was a lot of wisdom in this.
Honestly, I'm not trying to sound arrogant at all. I excelled in school.
Somehow it worked for me it was really
hard being indoors really hard
being indoors I did not enjoy that so like
(27:26):
PE was always my favorite and any opportunity I had
to play a sport instead of being indoors I
took that so school itself
wasn't as hard as the social aspect and
okay here's something you asked like what
what was an anchor I forgot about this in middle school
(27:46):
in high school I was in band and so I had music and
it was the most incredible thing it
especially in high school it became like family we
were a band family so we were the band nerds and you know okay this was my place
in high school society I'm a band nerd and I'm fine with that because I get
(28:06):
to play music and And I remember being in awe in band class of like,
here's a hundred of us teenagers,
some probably,
I don't know, let's just say different social groups.
And we're all coming together and creating something bigger than ourselves together.
And it's just absolutely beautiful.
(28:27):
So music, there's music again, helping me cope. So if school didn't,
if I didn't have music and sports in school, then it would have been a problem.
But I had a problem, you know, being around that many people all the time, all day.
(28:49):
I would go home and just like zonk out for hours. I slept.
I slept probably more than most people.
So if I wasn't if I wasn't in school if I wasn't playing sports if I wasn't
in playing music I was sleeping,
to recover from it from it all and have to do it again the next day and then
(29:12):
on the weekends I was sleeping.
By the way, shout out to the band kids, because I'll admit, back in high school,
right, I was like, I was not a band kid. You know, I was, I was more, I was a sports guy.
And because this is back, I had my mask, right? I was fitting in.
I thought I was doing what I was supposed to do.
I thought I was doing, you know, I was doing what Rod taught me.
(29:33):
Rod's the adult who I boarded me here on Earth.
He's taught me, right? Like, you know, masculine, you go, you go play sports, right?
Like, you know, that was that, you know, like the, you know,
kind of persona, right, that I knew to grow up in, right?
So it was, so I was like, you know, so I would go with people.
I didn't make fun of the band, but right. Like in my head, I'm a fan.
(29:54):
Right. Then about what my shadow is, when I went to, when I,
once I got into my career, I was like, all the cool people that I enjoy talking
with were all the band people, all the ones that have, all the ones that have
like good personalities,
great stories, enjoyable, that they're comfortable in their spirit.
Like, I'm like, anyway, like they were all the band kids. I didn't get anyway.
(30:15):
Anyway, and so that's why I got us just, you know, anyway, those are the,
in my opinion, you know, whether at least in the data science world and getting
to know, that's where that's where me, that's where I found the cool kids ended up.
I mean, me too. Yeah. The band was where it was at. It was the cool people.
And in my opinion, and it's like, we, we were the ones comfortable with it within our skin.
(30:37):
We weren't trying to be somebody we weren't. we just love music and it made
us feel whole would be my assumption based on how I felt,
and it it was it was a built-in community it's funny you said you bring up such an important,
shaping or molding moments that happens and you know as we grow up which is.
(31:04):
That it's interesting. I didn't even, I didn't literally just hit me as you
were talking about this, right?
Like I'm, I would say I, I spent my time trying to be cool, right.
Trying to fit in, trying to be popular, trying to be what I thought I was supposed to be. Right.
You know, like those types of things. Right.
And, you know, late and again, and now my throughout my, that's called my high school experience.
(31:25):
Yeah. That, that served me, that, that served me better than, you know,
some of the it's called the band kids or other people
that maybe weren't involved in athletics or or or
other things and then when
i got into the then when i got out of high school and where there was no longer
a you know where you're not you were you no longer are forced to be around people
(31:45):
you actually have a choice of who you are around and they have a choice to be
around you as well right you recognize like the outside world operates very
very differently and you know one of the
things that like, just like kind of for me, it would be like, like, I don't miss,
I don't miss not going to college because of having a diploma on the wall.
But to that point, what I did miss throughout my career though,
(32:06):
was the learning of how to, how to, how to understand people,
how to work in groups, the social aspects, right.
And, and how to be comfortable in your own skin versus trying to fit in.
And so I can't tell you how many times in my career,
I wish that I would have had the strong sense of self that i saw in people that
(32:28):
did the outlier stuff like band or otherwise and how much that really benefited them later on in life.
Because of that kind of grounding, self-confidence, right? Whatever, right?
Like you said, just figuring themselves out in a different way.
And quite frankly, what you want to call it, how that just sets you up better
(32:51):
for life than fitting in.
So I guess I don't have to say it, right? Or trying to fit in or wear that mask
or being not authentic because you're worried about what other people will say
or think or do, right? I miss that on so much fun.
Worried about that i'm sorry you missed out on that well i didn't i didn't think
(33:12):
that i missed out on until you just said something then you just made me realize
that i missed out on it you know i was doing all right well i again i'm being
honest about what you brought up and you know and,
right and understanding the science of you right and it just and it's funny
how we have one set of memories based on our things and sometimes we romanticize
our memories right to make ourselves feel good versus how they sometimes really
(33:32):
were and i'm being honest right i'm thinking myself Hey,
I would have been, you know, I, you know, I probably would have been better served.
You know what I mean? Dipping into that individuality better about myself.
So, and because of that, right, I can't do anything about what I did in the past.
So all that I can do now is say, Hey, band kids, anybody that,
you know, Hey, I can do now is give a shout out and props and explaining how anybody,
(33:56):
anybody who you're going to be better served in life, you know, is,
is, is, is give, is get, at least give a, give a pep top put
your kids in band to anybody who's just not even his band right so it's just
anybody who's doing something that is that gets treated as the fridge or that
doesn't get treated as the coolest thing to do or be a part of right because
(34:17):
that's going to change place to place you're a demo all that stuff's going to
be different right but it's anybody who's got the courage to just be themselves,
when the world is beating on you for not fitting in or when everyone's awkward
and gawky and trying to figure that out right and so let's let's use that right
now i'm on that same vein and say what what advice would you give your younger
self knowing what you know now experiencing, right?
(34:38):
Like I just kind of gave my, my self some, you know, younger self some advice.
What would you kind of do based on how you've seen the world be based on,
and think about too, like when you were a kid or growing up,
you had these fears, right.
Of, of what the world would be like, or if you weren't this way,
you would be excited, right. All the different truths that you told yourself.
And then you found out some of those fears were true.
(34:59):
And then you found out some of those fears were not true.
Are you referring to specific fears that I'm not remembering?
I'm just speaking to everybody.
I'm playing the odds that everybody had something that they were fearful of.
Yeah, okay. So there was, because people were mean and I was usually the new
kid and I was a shy introvert, I held myself back from participating in a few things.
(35:26):
All I can say maybe because I'm afraid kids would be mean to me or something.
I don't know. I don't know exactly. Exactly.
Really, you know, part of me was interested in trying other sports than the ones I played.
And I held myself back. So there were ways where I held myself back out of fear, and I wish I hadn't.
And so I would say, you know, especially, you know, looking back now as an adult,
(35:50):
whether you're instantly really great at the thing or not, it doesn't matter.
Just try it. I mean, when you're a kid, none of it matters. It's all just about
having fun and experimenting.
So I would tell my younger self, let yourself have more life experiences and
stop being a spectator as much as you are.
And I wasn't a complete spectator. I want to qualify that. I did a lot of activities that I enjoyed.
(36:17):
But there were ways where I realized that I was just being a spectator and not
letting myself try it out.
And that bit me in the butt later.
Yeah so how do you yeah so how would you tell your tell yourself and listeners now,
how to try to find that balance between knowing your happy place and challenging
(36:39):
you and your car like being in nature and being around things and then challenging
yourself though to still.
For still new things, right? And to still find out if there's other things that
also interest you, right? And to keep that going.
You know, it's been something that I've continued to this day of what am I really
wanting to do that I'm not letting myself have, that I'm not letting myself
(37:00):
do and giving myself permission,
you know, it's like, okay, well, you want to learn how to play a new musical
instrument, just take a couple lessons.
You don't have to commit for life. Just take a couple lessons.
See if you like it, if you want to follow through.
I can say one musical instrument I tried, I didn't like as much as I thought
(37:24):
I would. And so I feel okay dropping it.
Others, I'm very happy. I gave myself permission to pick them up as an adult.
So, yeah, just giving yourself permission, asking yourself, being in that inquiry
of what have I been yearning for that I'm not letting myself have?
(37:46):
And what's one way I can take a step towards that?
Not to overwhelm myself, but to just stop denying myself. Like,
what's the point of that?
Why am I denying myself? I'm the adult now of my life. I can choose what I want
to include and what I don't want to include.
(38:06):
So really getting in there and asking myself, what are all these shoulds about? What's the origin?
Is that really true?
And what do I really want to experience still?
How's that? I think that's great. That's a good segue into it.
How did that curious mind, and translate itself over into your career?
(38:35):
Or did it translate itself into your career choice or what you chose to do?
Probably. I have very eclectic interests.
I have a lot of curiosities and interests and love learning.
So that curiosity has led me to exploring different avenues in my career.
(39:00):
For instance, I knew that I wanted to help people, but on a holistic level.
So I knew that I would would want to study not just the mind,
but also the physical body and also the spirit, right?
And learn how to support people on all three levels, because we're not just a talking head.
(39:22):
We're not just our bodies. We're not just spirit.
So that, yeah, I think that has, that curiosity has led to me having a very
wide breadth in my career, if that makes sense.
Yeah and so where did you and so now
i want to use this because you know it seems like a good segue to
(39:43):
kind of talk about not since you just talked about right like maintain the
curious mind the having the fun the learning the exploring the eclectic interests
how those how those things served you in your in your professional role i think
it helps you know just like you were mentioning before it helps to stay curious
about my clients and not i mean on on one level as a
(40:07):
psychotherapist, I should not have an agenda. That is not my place to have an agenda.
So specifically, it's helped me to not have an agenda when I'm not supposed
to have one. But it definitely...
Helps me to be curious about, okay, what's who is this person in front of me?
What is it about them or their life that has them doing these self sabotaging
(40:30):
things, for instance, or not being able to get past a certain emotion?
How you know what tool out of my tool belt would serve them best?
I don't have a cookie cutter approach to clients. I like how could Could we? We're all different.
Some people do. That works for them. I don't.
(40:50):
I think, yeah, I think those are the two main ways.
Internal commercial breaks here on the podcast. But in this case,
we're making one because it's not that long ago I did the intro and I said,
hey, I'm putting the old me in the new places.
And through the conversation with Ruby, I can tell you that the old me and the
new places wasn't so good. And so there was there was there's not a need to
(41:13):
subject you guys to that to that learning experience that I went through.
So we're adjusting the interview, you know, to remove my unproductive learning
here and trying to literally just kind of creating a better segue.
Way and instead of trying to you know wear the same clothes and make it look
the same and put together this this concept of flawlessness that's just frankly
(41:36):
unrealistic to live up to because
life is messy especially if you're doing any sort of
personal work or trying to achieve
goals and stuff is messy and i'll i'll
share the story that i i hear music a bunch of
times because it really stuck out to me i don't know any of her
music but billy eilish i hope i said her name right it was
on the netflix thing and she and they were interviewing her about stuff and
(41:58):
and she just talked about i think it was something like it was
either something like 50 or 300 or something very some very
large number of samples that were used to actually create what was played on
the radio and i thought to myself wow so you're telling me that in order to
talk about setting an unrealistic expectation and the amount of work that actually
goes into creating quote-unquote a flawless few-minute song.
(42:21):
And if people think that that's reality...
I mean, talk about, you know, you drive yourself crazy trying to achieve that.
So I, so I can't contribute to that is the more, is the, is the,
this is where I'm getting to with that.
So I'm not going to try to pretend and do anything else because stuff's messy.
We're living and learning and that's what it's all about here.
So thankfully Ruby came back, we're wearing different clothes and you know,
(42:41):
those must have been serious and it is what it is.
And we're, you know, and we're in a better place having kind of just put a little
bow here on our last interview.
And so, and so I think what's a great kind of question to take us from how we
started to where we did some of the great conversation we got to was how to
walk us through how you kind of came from,
(43:02):
you know, how you kind of came into you.
Right. I think as you know, and you being where you felt your,
you know, your, where you felt your sense of belonging or your comfort zone.
Walk you through. Wow. I'll give you, I'll give you the short version. Yeah.
Yeah. So, you know, As I mentioned, I moved a lot and was the new kid a lot.
(43:24):
So there was a lot of solitude in my life and parents working.
And luckily, I lived in a climate where it was pleasant to be outdoors a lot.
And I didn't feel so much belonging with the other people, with other humans,
with other kids my age because they haven't accepted me yet into their circles.
(43:50):
As a new kid so I really
I don't know if it was so much of a realization or
a decision like well I belong to myself and I belong to nature because that's
my happy place and you know I I watched my fair share of television as a as
a child but I really really found myself just much more in awe
(44:16):
and delight and whimsy and imagination when I was outdoors.
And so I spent as much time outdoors as I could and really felt that kinship
with Mother Nature, with the animals.
So that really became, I guess you could say, my anchor.
(44:36):
My anchor throughout it all was having my connection to nature.
And so if you had to guess, ballpark, how old were you, do you think,
when you kind of came to this realization about yourself or at least found yourself,
you know, kind of gravitating more towards nature versus the playground?
Always.
(44:57):
It's interesting because I do have lots of memories of anytime we drove by a
playground, I would be like, stop the car. I want to go play.
And I would go around and be like, will you play with me? Will you play with
me? Will you play with me?
And sometimes I get takers and sometimes you don't.
And I wasn't avoiding humans altogether,
(45:18):
but just found myself a lot
of times feeling left out it was it was a sense of feeling left
out it's like well i'll go play by myself then i'll
go play with the rocks i'll go i you know as adventurous i
like to climb rocks and climb trees and you know
ride my bike across streams and stuff yeah did
(45:39):
i i forgot the question no no no you answered the question which was just kind
of how you kind of came to that place i would just was you know like every time
i talk to anybody and they give me their perspective about things it also allows
me or it gives me something many times it causes me to pause and
reflect and see some of my childhood right through a different set
of lenses and so as you're talking i'm you know i
(46:02):
you know it's very interesting because i if somebody were to ask me i never
would have thought i would be like oh yeah i was always playing with people
and had tons of friends and all these other things but it was like well there
that was the case at certain parts of my of my of my youth and there was the
case when it was let's say during school hours.
But then after school was different and when
it was non-sports let me take that back when it was sports related it was
(46:25):
one thing but if it was non-sports related then it was then then there was then
there wasn't so much that same that i wasn't being invited in i guess right
and i know and so it's funny yourself and somebody else had you know i'd said
some things that maybe i said wow think about it i guess maybe i did have a
little more solitary channel than what i realized yeah.
Anyway and except for you you know early
(46:47):
on in your life found your way in nature late in my life kind of found my i
guess that's where i found my way you know to there and so what i would ask
you is when you kind of think about a sense of belonging or a kinship or where
it just feels more comfortable right and maybe that's maybe that's what the
answer is but do you i do do you
have, you know, any sort of way that you would kind of say,
(47:12):
at least maybe, you know, knowing it now, I mean, I've not known it then,
but how you recognize that you just felt different in like the different environments
and how one just kind of felt more comfortable than another?
Or is it literally like one of those, I just feel it, but I don't know how to explain it?
Yeah, yeah. I definitely could identify body senses. You know,
(47:34):
anytime I was in nature, it was that like tingly butterflies in the stomach,
that awe of like, oh, look at this place.
Look at the moss. Look at, you know, look at the tree bark. Look at the animals over there.
It was just this like, I can't wait to explore and, you know,
commune here or just lay on a rock, you know.
(47:56):
Know, with, with people, you know, depending on the people, it,
it was harder to feel that kinship.
And, you know, a lot of times kids are mean.
And so it's just like, oh, oh, being around that energy just feels like,
oh, I don't, I don't like that. And,
Would rather just go where it feels good. And it always felt good outdoors and nature.
(48:21):
Well, I think you just helped. Well, psychotherapist, is that correct? Mm-hmm.
Okay. So, well, thank you, psychotherapist friend Ruby.
You just helped me understand why I got drawn to sports at such a young age,
even though I was not necessarily, even though I don't prefer to be an aggressive person.
(48:42):
And you're right. That was how I found my sense of belonging, right?
Both, you know, Rod, the adult that I was responsible for incarnating,
you know, me as a consciousness here.
Definitely the way to gain acceptance from him, right, was through performance,
achievement, things like that.
He was your traditional, you know, what do you call it?
(49:05):
Traditional masculinity, right? He wanted me to go out in the woods and go carry
the canoe over our heads and bring all of our stuff in packs,
that kind of stuff. That was totally not me. He did not.
Well, good. Yeah, he definitely was not. He was definitely looking at me going,
(49:26):
where the heck did you come from?
Right. And then as well, right, this place of belonging was that I was happened
to be very, you know, very athletic.
Or have a lot of athleticism as a youth and probably was more athletic than others younger in life.
And so, you know, people wanted to win. And so therefore the belonging came,
(49:47):
you know, by wanting me on the team because they wanted to win.
So I found myself really then anchoring into that, identifying that, what do you call it?
Some value, right? In being, trying to provide and do.
And so, you know, that, that, you know, me wasn't what was
being accepted but what i could had to offer was good so
(50:09):
anyway so now i understand how i got into sports anyway so there
you go so thanks for that thanks for that free session helping the
youth right there my pleasure
my pleasure and i i want to i want to speak to the
dad part i have to give my dad credit my dad is very
outdoorsy and i probably got
my love of nature from him and you know from him taking me
(50:31):
camping and and just being outdoors
a lot and introducing me to nature so
that and that came from him yeah that's
so fascinating because and as you said ago why didn't i
get that and i and i i think i mean so i don't know so at least in in my scenario
like the way that i interact and the reason why i very much learn nature and
(50:56):
animals are such a a place of learning for me is because I'm looking at them
as a place of cooperation.
I'm understanding that they have much to teach me, much to learn from them, right?
As they represent the creator's wisdom, frankly, right?
I mean, it's this beautiful attribution model that we exist in.
And everything has its function and its purpose and its beauty.
(51:19):
And just watching the enjoyment of watching all of these things just be themselves.
And there's just a joy in that authenticity that they represent, right?
But the way that I was introduced into nature, though, was more of me man, me king of woods.
(51:40):
Let me come and hunt and kill things.
Whoa, ooga booga, right? I know I'm kind of probably being an ass in the way
that I'm describing that masculine, you know, at that.
That's a different type of outdoorsman. Yeah, that definitely was the outdoorsy guy my dad is.
So we got two different outdoorsmen, but very, very, very different ways of being outdoors.
(52:03):
Yeah, mine were definitely, yeah. So it was not, I did not find enjoyment, right?
It was not serene for me. It was, it was, it was anything was kind of more,
more traumatic because I didn't understand this need and desire of this approach
of trying to control everything.
Right. And this, and this, a dominance and that just that persona. Right.
And so anyway, before I go down too much of my, you know, unpacking,
(52:23):
you know, my childhood here on the podcast, we're going to, we're going to just
hit reverse and bring this back to you here.
Right. And so, and so, all right. So all of your life, you found that.
And so like, what were some ways that, so like you're for me.
When I have decisions to make, right? Like I'll find myself just going to nature
and just my mind wanders and somehow answers find their way in.
(52:46):
So how did you, so how was it that you were able to, how did you leverage your
relationships with nature to kind of balance, you know, all of our overall life, right?
Like we all have our, we all have our places where we'd like to go to,
let's say we're feeling stressed or looking for answers.
And so how did nature like play a factor for you like that? or how else maybe would,
(53:08):
were you able to, you know, to leverage it to improve the quality of your life?
Well, I was definitely outdoors if I wasn't in school.
If it was daytime and I wasn't in school, I was outdoors.
You know, I come from the generation, probably the last generation,
I think that parents would say, don't come home until dark.
(53:32):
So that, you know, getting as much outdoor time as
possible it was such a bummer when you
get old enough where you don't get recess anymore like recess was
my saving grace during grade school they shouldn't
have taken that away I think they you know just like we need the
arts we need music we need creativity we need outdoor time throughout our school
day so having that and and then the sports they played I guess like I was on
(53:59):
the swim team so we had an outdoor natatorium for part of the year they had
a cover over it during the winter,
but I got to be outdoors every day of school, swimming and water.
Water to me is very cleansing, very healing, very grounding.
And so I'd be swimming laps and processing thoughts or meditating.
(54:25):
It gets meditative when you're doing it for a while.
So I think that served me very
well if i didn't have that in school or
some sort of creative outlet it wouldn't
have gone as well as it did probably yeah i
would have definitely benefited from having that outlet i was pretty much toast
(54:46):
after about fifth sixth grade my ability to to coexist in that much without
because i didn't understand my wiring i had no idea how much you know how sensitive
i was all all of the energies and everything around me.
And it was just so overload constantly where I, I essentially slept my way through high school.
(55:07):
So. Oh yeah. I slept a lot too.
There's a lot of sleeping going on. Yeah. What was I going to say also?
Yeah. So before high school, it was dance.
So having, having a creative outlet, having physical movement for my body,
I know not everybody's into sports. So I don't know if that's like a one-size-fits-all,
(55:32):
but for me, it worked so well.
To move the energy physically through dance, through sports,
and then creativity, it just made all the difference in the world.
Oh, I agree. I mean, there's, I know it's, it's, it's, it's so,
(55:52):
it's so funny how so many things like that I, that I, I find to be really calming, peaceful,
uh, actually in second nature to me or inherent to me when I allow myself to
just be such as, then I wouldn't have done like as a kid, right?
Like such as dance or just movement and understanding and appreciating the need
and the value for that, as well as also understanding the need for sleep, right?
(56:15):
When you're wired to be more sensitive to read things right like you gotta you
gotta take care of your batteries.
Absolutely and i was not afraid to like
defend my sleep i i still get teased
to this day for how much i slept you know
as a kid that i'm like hey i
i needed that sleep to be
(56:38):
able to function with humans and i
was not willing to compromise that that was my line is like
i will not compromise my sleep yeah i
i took a nap earlier today yeah i'm a i'm a
big fan if the body's grooved
but the body wants to sleep and needs rest you know and thank you
again ruby for coming sharing your
(56:59):
story the first go around coming back again to share more
of it and in doing so it also i was reminded that i think you have an event
or something as well coming up so if yeah if please share that yes i do thank
you i am leading a yoga and sailing retreat in croatia.
(57:21):
Croatia is just across the adriatic sea from
the eastern coast of italy for those of you who may not
know and that is september 7 to
14 of this year and i still
have room on my boat we're going we're going to be sailing
a different sailing to a different island each day for a week seven
days seven nights exploring what each island
(57:43):
has to offer so many fun
you know exploring sea caves snorkeling paddle boarding biking in national parks
there's the monasteries a castle there's you know wineries there's good local
cuisine it'll be a fun adventure so if you're into a fun adventure i invite
you to join me we'll have the link at the bottom for you.
(58:05):
I'm so jealous. Well, come on. There's room on my boat. Tom.
Well, this gets back to the people and the nature thing. This is where,
like, this is what you just described is, like, is one of my bucket list items
that just happens to be me and a captain.
Being a captain? Maybe another, maybe just, or maybe just me, a captain, and a crew.
(58:27):
Because, you know, I'm a very experiential learner.
And I, you know, I just, I learn my own way. And I just find that I,
and I'm, and I tend to be very comfortable than doing that in isolation or solitary versus groups.
So anyway, so I'm very, I will admit that I think that is like,
I think it's, it sounds like such an amazing time, such an awesome and amazing experience.
(58:49):
And I think that's so fantastic that you are putting that together for people.
So if I get past, you know, who knows, maybe when I'm, you know,
more comfortable, but anyway, I'll have to talk to you offline,
maybe about, maybe you can help me to figure out how to do that because yeah.
Yet yeah i've been getting coffee i've been feeling drawn to back to the water
to our to some of our earlier conversation
as well here in as part of this next chapter in my life and so.
(59:12):
Yeah anyway so i by the way well i guess my last thing did you
ever see captain ron the movie captain ron with cuttings kurt
russell i don't think so i don't know
anyway for anybody who is listening that does know
captain ron okay similar to this family movies
except for as run like the caribbean sea you know
crazy captain and stuff in the family but you
(59:34):
can just live it on a boat right it's you know it's it's it's it just i
just always enjoy that in in that sense of
freedom that it's you know again wanting to wanting to
experience it right is it a it's like you know i
know it's not it's not all fun and games and i know that
there's some romanticizing of it but it's one of those things where it's like you want
to be able to experience it though right instead of just i don't want to take
(59:54):
a movie you know word for it right or somebody else's so anyway it'll definitely
be an adventure so all right well thank you everybody for for for tuning in
here this week and until next time have yourselves a great week.
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