October 1, 2024 • 51 mins
In the latest episode of Understanding the Science of You, Graham Skidmore and Jodi Branton discuss important themes of cultural identity, personal growth, and connection. Jodi shares her journey from a small town in Michigan to her career at the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian. She highlights her return to her Native roots after living away for many years, emphasizing the significance of cultural knowledge and community engagement.
Jodi reflects on the challenges of representing her culture while addressing the broader issues that Native communities face. The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding shared histories and experiences, noting that many people seek to reconnect with their roots.
Graham and Jodi also discuss the need for empathy and the ability to see perspectives outside of one’s own. They address the concept of “my people,” exploring how personal identity can connect with larger communities. Their conversation encourages listeners to appreciate the complexities of cultural identities and recognize the shared human experience.
The episode invites listeners to consider how personal stories shape collective narratives and emphasizes the ongoing journey of learning and healing within communities.
About Jodi Branton (Biimskanodin- "Little Whirlwind")Jodi Branton (Biimskanodin- "Little Whirlwind") is an artist and cultural education specialist from Port Huron, Michigan. Her home nation is Aamjiwnaang First Nation in Sarnia, Ontario, Canada. Growing up she spent a lot of time with her Grandmother and found her passion for their Ojibwe culture at a young age. This has led to a lifelong passion to share that knowledge with others and honor the history through preservation. She earned her B.A. in American Culture and History from the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor as well as her Masters of Education from the University of Nevada-Las Vegas. She has presented at numerous conferences, educated visitors while working at the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian and continues to embrace her turtle clan responsibilities of teaching and healing through her business Awishinaabe Consulting, LLC.
ABOUT THE PODCAST Welcome to Understanding the Science of You, a podcast founded by Graham Skidmore and EnGen. It's purpose is to help you discover untapped aspects of yourself and alternative paths to personal freedom and empowerment outside of conventional systems.
We want listeners to accept responsibility for creating change in the areas they desire. Creating change is done through personal contribution, not creating controversy.
We hope listeners will be inspired to create change within their lives after listening to our podcast because they will feel:
... Someone is fighting for them ... Cared for ... Heard ... Understood ... Hopeful ... Valued ... Appreciated ... Loved by the Universe
By living an authentic and healthy life of joy, kindness and compassion to demonstrate what's possible, our listeners will provide inspiration for others to challenge their limiting beliefs to start the movement.
To learn more about the podcast, visit scienceofyoupodcast.com.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to another episode ofUnderstanding the Science of You
(00:03):
with Graham Skidmore and I amjoined by Jodi Branton. Thank
you for joining us today, Jodi.Hi, thanks for having me. Yeah,
so just to give you guys alittle background on how Jodi
and I crossed paths. So ifanybody's if you've been
listening up to this point intime, then you know my, one of
my first guests, Sunshine, is amutual friend of ours, and so we
(00:27):
were introduced at her house.But you know, definitely, you
know, felt very comfortable witheach other. And you know, as I,
as I got to know Jodi, Irealized that she was a treasure
trove of information on a lot oftopics. I don't mean like that
friend of yours who has anopinion about everything, right?
I mean, that's not, that's notsuper helpful. We all have those
(00:47):
people, right? I'm talkingabout, and I'm not talking about
somebody who's necessarily, youknow, book read, right? While
that's extremely impressive, I'mtalking about somebody who's
actually walked in the footstepsof that experiential learning in
many, many different aspects oflife, and can then speak from,
(01:08):
from a personal perspective, asyou know, of learning, as well
as learning from books on somany topics. And it's always
fascinated me, you know, justthe depth of her knowledge. And
as we just, we just talkingright, just, we just run a
campfire at Sunshine's onFriday, on Saturday, and we
(01:29):
started talking about somethingrandomly, and then you just also
then rattled off like two orthree things that were totally
synergies with something I needto work out in your knowledge
and just again, was anotherexample of your, of your vast
experience and knowledge. Sothat's me kind of just painting
a very broad brush. So why don'tyou, since I've already set this
(01:51):
up, and you have to kind of tootyour own horn now a little bit,
right, based on the way that Ithat I've laid this, laid this
out, so please tell, yeah, soplease toot your horn a little
bit. Tell, tell the listenerssome of the great things you've
accomplished academically, someof the different jobs that
you've had, shoes you've had achance to walk in, you know, to
kind of to better put some meaton the bone to my comments.
(02:17):
Yeah, I guess I started, youknow, I grew up in a little
town, Port Huron, Michigan,right across my reservation,
which is Aamjiwnaang FirstNation. And I grew up in the
same house, same friends, allthe way up until I got married
at 18 years old. So I had avery, I don't know, very
(02:40):
non-adventurous, I would say,childhood. For us, it was, you
know, powwows, church things,and you know what to me, it
wasn't, it didn't seemadventurous to me. And then I,
you know, I got, got marriedyoung, moved down to Savannah,
Georgia, and had our daughter.And I just kind of I enjoyed it.
(03:08):
It was nice being someplaceelse, learning a new culture and
not but I didn't see my cultureanywhere there. And I started to
kind of move away from it alittle bit. And then we moved up
to New York. We had twin boys,and that's when my grandmother
passed away. And this was in1999 when she passed away, and
(03:31):
they were born in 2000 and Ijust had this draw to come back
to my culture, to fulfill Idon't know these, these little
adventures that I'd had in mymind when I was younger of what
I wanted to be, or who I thoughtI was. And it wasn't a mom and a
(03:54):
stay at home mom and a wife. Itwas, you know, to go out and to
have knowledge, to share thatknowledge. I had gotten away
from my culture, basically, forabout eight or nine years. Moved
back to Michigan and decided tojust completely change my life
(04:16):
and go to college. And I went toUniversity of Michigan, studied
American Culture with the intentof maybe going to law school,
being a lobbyist for Nativerights. You know, all these
different ideas that I had ofwhat I wanted to do. And in
studying American Culture, Irealized that it wasn't just my
(04:36):
history that was inaccurate. Itwas so many other histories, you
know, in Japanese Americanhistory, African American
history, and I was like, How canI ... how can I fix this? You
know, studying how America cameto be, what Americans are, our
(04:57):
culture as as America, reallymade me think so much more about
my ancestors, what they wouldhave lived through just for me
to be here and to not have thatconnection to my culture was
just something missing from mylife. And I joined the student
(05:20):
organization there. It's calledNASA, which is Native American
Student Association, which Istill volunteer and help at the
powwow that they have every yearin Ann Arbor. And it just kind
of rekindled that, that fire.And from there, I went ahead and
got accepted into a teachingprogram, which took me out to
(05:43):
Compton, California, and then toLas Vegas, where I did my
master's in education. I wantedto change the curriculum from
from the inside, I guess, andonce I did get my degree in
curriculum and development, Ijust realized that this is such
a bigger issue than that. Thecurriculum gets changed every 10
(06:08):
years. It's very hard to getthings added, you know,
corrected, those sort of things.So I was like, Okay, there's --
I felt very defeated. I reallydidn't enjoy teaching in the
classroom setting as much as Ithought I would. And moved back
home to Michigan, reconnectingagain with those roots. I
(06:32):
started teaching at the localcommunity college. Was really
involved with the diversity andinclusion group there. Brought a
powwow to the community collegeand Native American Day, those
sort of things, that I thoughtwould be helping in a way, and I
(06:53):
found that it was more just likea one and done type thing. There
wasn't a continual. I didn'tthink there was an audience for
a continual learning. And as Igrew in my career and traveled,
I realized that there was. Therewas a lot of people out there
(07:14):
that are wanting this culturalknowledge and also wanting to
return to maybe their owncultural traditions or
knowledge, and not knowing howto do that. So just by chance,
my my ex husband ended upgetting a job in Washington, DC,
(07:34):
and I went to go visit. And Iwent to the American Indian
Museum, the Smithsonian AmericanIndian Museum. And it just felt
-- I was drawn there for somereason, like this was supposed
to be the next step in myjourney. I don't know why. I'd
never been there before,anything like that. I just
really felt that. And I appliedfor a job, and I wasn't
(07:58):
initially selected through thevetting process, I guess, that
the computer does. And when Igot the email saying that I
wasn't selected, I emailed themback, and I was like, What do
you mean I wasn't selected? Didyou look at my resume? Did you
look at my history and myexperience? And I got an email
back from the museum, and theybrought me in for an interview,
(08:22):
and ended up getting theposition there in the education
department of being a culturalinterpreter. So what --
I'm sorry, where again was yougot employed? I just want to
make sure that it's crystalclear.
At the Smithsonian NationalMuseum of the American Indian in
Washington, DC. And I did, yeah,I did have those moments of
(08:44):
like, how did this this thislittle Indian girl from this
little small town end up here? Iwould just kick back and put my
feet up on my desk, and rightoutside the window was the
National Air and Space Museum,and further down the Washington
Monument, and I was just like,Okay, if, if I can do this, and,
(09:05):
you know, anybody can do this.I'm really no different than
anyone else, and how do I reallyinstill that in not only my
people, but anyone that Iencounter? Like that, they can
really do whatever they settheir mind to. My time there
(09:27):
wasn't as long as maybe I -- Idon't know, it just didn't feel
like I was meant to be therevery long, you know, I felt that
way throughout my lifein manyplaces, I meant to kind of go
(09:47):
in, get what I need, share whatI need, and then move on to the
next step. And that does kind oftie in with my Ojibwe name,
which was given to me by mygrandmother. I was about four
years old in a naming ceremony.And that is bimskenoten, which
means little whirlwind. So I, Ifeel like I truly embody it in
(10:13):
so many ways, like I lived in,you know, 12 different cities
just kind of picking up andmoving and, yeah, I never stayed
any place too long. And then Idecided it was a time to come
back home again. And mygrandfather was sick at this
time, and now he had passedaway. So both of my true
(10:40):
connection to my culture that Ididn't appreciate as much as I
should have were now gone.Unfortunately, my mother was
born in 1950. That wasn't a timethat it was cool to be native.
So she never had regalia. Shedidn't dance in powwows. The
(11:01):
traditions and culture weren'tpassed down to her. It was
almost this whole generationthat didn't receive this
knowledge. And in actuality, itwasn't even legal to have Native
American religious ceremonies orpowwows or that into until the
late 1970s I think it was 1978and then the early 80s when laws
(11:28):
started to change. It was kindof, I guess, cool to be native
and cool to be Indian. And mygrandmother was very much
involved in that movement ofbringing back the culture to
everybody. And was, you know,she founded one of the groups in
(11:53):
the blue water area, and broughtthe education, Indian education
program there. And we were allall together growing up, you
know, learning Anishinaabeculture, which is this area,
Anishinaabe means first peoples,and the Anishinaabe people are
(12:13):
from the Great Lakes region. Sothat includes the Ojibwa, which
is the same as Chippewa, Ottawa,which is Odawa and then
Potawatomi. So the three ofthose tribes are considered the
three fires of Michigan.
(12:39):
So here's the question that Iguess I'm trying to figure out,
is, you mentioned all thedifferent names as, like, being
similar, but then different. Socan you just expand on that so I
help to better understand, like,are they always at all one big
tribe, or is it all bunch ofseparate ones that kind of share
some common bonds? Or, like,what does that mean?
Yeah, I mean, definitely thecommon bonds, and that is the
(13:00):
Great Lakes area. But there wereresponsibilities. You know, we
responsible for the trade,responsible for the land,
responsible for water, thosesort of things. And keepers of
the fire, which anyone who hasbeen down to, maybe Firekeepers
Casino down towards BattleCreek, it they Potawatomi are
(13:21):
the Firekeepers, and that'stheir area, is on the west side
of Michigan now. When I saidOjibwa, which is the same as
Chippewa, there's manydifferent, I guess, legends or
stories of how that came about,but the one that I was always
taught is that when we firststarted interacting with the
(13:43):
French, they could not sayOjibwa, and they said Chipwa.
And it's stuck. So even today,you still have tribes that will
go by Chippewa, and a lot ofthem have a lot more interaction
in more French roots. SaultSaint Marie is a good a good
(14:03):
example of that. You know,there's a lot of Ojibwe. I say
Ojibwe, a lot of Chippewa ofthere. And there are many
different tribes. In the UnitedStates, there's over 550
different tribes that arefederally recognized. In
Michigan, there's 14. And out ofthose 14, they all are Ojibwe,
(14:25):
Potawatomi, or Odawa Ottawa. Itreally is just a matter of also
with the the Canadian and theAmerican side, which my
reservation was established in1827, pushed right across into
Great Britain, Britishterritory. And that also has a
(14:49):
lot of influence in how we'rereferred in paperwork. Wome
treaties in the US will sayChippewa and write it out that
way. In Canada, more Ojibwe. Sothat's where I think, for me, I
just always identified asIndian. And that was the weird
(15:10):
thing, like I didn't, I didn'tunderstand the differences
between all my friends that werein the Indian Education program.
Some were Pima from thesouthwest, some were Oneida from
Canada. And, you know, some wereeven Navajo from out west too,
(15:30):
and we didn't really understandthose differences. At that time,
the culture was so lost thatthere was almost this pan Indian
identity where all natives kindof identified themselves with
headdresses, teepees ,and thatsort of thing when that isn't
(15:51):
the case.
How would you highlight some ofthose differences in ways that I
that, I guess, allows you tohonor the differences, but then
also kind of touch base on whatkeeps what also makes everything
the same, because, and then I'llget into my next question after
that.
Yeah, well, I mean, theoverarching idea of a creator,
(16:13):
you know, as opposed to, youknow, maybe a god or the triad
or the Trinity, whatever it isin religious aspects of that.
But I think that it was justthis commonality of wanting to
(16:33):
gather together, to want tolearn, maybe what our ancestors
had lost. It was -- they werefinding documents. They were
finding information. People wereafraid to talk and to really
share their culture until itbecame essentially legal.
(16:56):
Wait a second you're telling methat this is -- so when was up
until when you tell me it wasillegal to be whether you
identified as First Nation,Indigenous, Native American, it
was illegal to share yourculture until what time?
Well, it was legal to practicethe culture. yep, into the 19 I
(17:17):
think it was 1978 and that's thefreedom of religion. 1978 Yeah
So, I mean, literally, I was, Iwas born in 76. It is, it is so
mind boggling from to me to sayout loud -- in my lifetime
Yeah. Native American,Indigenous, First Nation, could
(17:44):
not practice, we're not allowedto be themselves. That's always
my one. They were not allowed tobe themselves. Yeah? That is so
twisted on so many levels. I'msorry. You know, I get, I get
worked up, and it makes mereally sad, not to mention
there's so much wisdom. Yeah, Imean 1978 I mean, I was born in
(18:05):
1977 so it's actually in in mylifetime, too. And what it
actually says is the AmericanIndian Religious Freedom Act of
1978 protects the rights ofNative Americans to exercise
their traditional religions byensuring access to sites, use,
possession of sacred objects,and the freedom to worship
through ceremonial andtraditional rights. So that's
(18:28):
what was essentially given backto us. Some tribes had Legalized
oppression, unfargen believable.Yeah, I mean, because it was, I
mean, they did have gatheringsof powwows, that sort of thing,
I mean, but it was, I mean, youhave to think their idea of
natives was the Wild West, theBuffalo Bill Show. That sort of
(18:51):
thing. And natives as beingsavage and wild. The 60s came
along and then there was thiskind of movement for natives,
the American Indian Movement,you know, they took over
Alcatraz in the late 1960s andthey were there for years. A lot
(19:12):
of movie stars started to jumpon that and even Marlon Brando
with, you know, having, SasheenLittlefeather accept his Oscar
for him and say that, you know,he didn't want that because of
the way that natives wereportrayed in in the Hollywood
film industry and that sort ofthing. So there's been small
(19:36):
little pieces of things thatpeople have kind of known, but
it's been this pan, like I said,Pan-Indian identity, whereas
nobody had access to their exactinformation from their tribe. It
wasn't okay to pass thatinformation down. Elders were
(19:59):
quiet. As a result, a lot oftimes of residential schools,
which is a whole other topicthat went from the 1800s all the
way up until the 1980s when thelast one was closed in the US,
and that's when native childrenwere taken and put into these
schools to teach them skills tocivilize them. A lot of things
(20:22):
happened, a lot of trauma, a lotof loss of culture happened in
these schools.
So you have to think you'retrying to rebuild something that
truly was just taken, and someplaces were never able to get
that back, because they're sofar removed from their ancestral
land that they're not able togrow the same kind of medicines
(20:48):
their ancestors grew. They'renot able to, you know, practice
the same ceremonies becausethey're no longer in their
sacred sites anymore, and someof those have been destroyed,
some of them have been givenback. You know, a lot of people
look at Mount Rushmore as a bigUS symbol, but it actually
destroyed some of the sacredmountains for some of the the
(21:10):
Sioux, the Sioux people. Sothere's a lot of things that you
just can't go back on, and wehad to move forward in a way
that would be able to be readyfor the next generations.
Ancestors always said to lookahead seven generations to
ensure that the land that youwalk on, the air that you
(21:31):
breathe, the water that youdrink, is going to be
sustainable for sevengenerations. And it almost
didn't happen. That's odd thatyou know that 1980s type era
really is the coming of thatseventh generation. And you
know, I have always felt that alot of people I've encountered,
(21:54):
a lot of native people Iencountered my age, have always
felt that, that push and thatdrive to bring this to
everybody. So it is, it was aprophecy, you know, that seventh
generation after, aftercolonization in that, and that's
(22:15):
who they looked for to make surethat we would be prepared.
So before I and, you know, Icould go down, we could do so
many episodes, the wisdom lostand injustices and beauty in the
beauty that's been lost overtime. But so let's, I want to
(22:35):
kind of bring it back to you usethe term, you know, 'my people'
and so this is, that's a termthat I'm trying to figure out
how to use for myself. So I'lldiscuss, I'll be very
transparent with the nature ofmy question, and it obviously
ties into the to our topic. Buttoo, when you say, 'my people,'
who do you consider my peoplebe, the first part. And then the
second part is, do those peoplehave to consider you their
(22:58):
people for you to call them 'mypeople?' Like, how does that all
work for you? And being a partof one tribe? Yeah. I mean, I
consider it, you know, myancestors, my lineage, my
history. Those are my people.And just like with anybody
else, you know, you do, you kindof create your own people, in a
(23:21):
way, too, like people that youknow are going to understand
certain things, are going to notjudge you, look at you for for
really who you are, and just,you know, want to share and be
part of that. So I think, youknow, you can apply my people to
whoever you'd like. Yourancestors, the people around
(23:44):
you, but like for me, inparticular, it is my ancestors,
and it's also all Native people,because there is this getting
back to that differences andsimilarities. There is that
underlying connectiveness to theCreator, into wanting to, you
(24:06):
know, save Mother Earth and toensure that she's here for the
seventh generation from us, andthat's where a lot of, you know,
there is a lot of waterprotection. This last weekend,
there was a big event up inMackinac, St. Ignace area, and
just to bring awareness to theprotecting of the water. And I
(24:31):
think a lot of people arestarting to step up and realize,
like, we get one Earth. We getone chance. We're destroying it.
And that's something that isn'tjust for Native people, that's
for everybody. That's foreverybody to come together and
to to save this planet that welive on, and that's why I also
(24:54):
think it's so important for meto share my culture and to share
my teachings, you know, thoseteachings that I've talked about
before, with the the love,respect, wisdom, truth, honesty,
humility and bravery. You embodythose things, and we can all
come together. Imagine if, ifpeople followed that, what an
(25:16):
amazing world it would be. It'snot, I mean, it's not easy, but
they are very simple things, andthat's why It's hard, hard to
disagree with. Yeah, and it forme, that's why I've always been
kind of steadfast in what I doand what I say in that, because
I have that behind me, and Iknow if I'm not living in my
truth, then there's going to beconsequences. I'm not going to
(25:40):
be aligned. There's going to besome kind of chaos in my life
that's, that's not aligning. AndI have to, you know, work and
figure out these things of ofwhere I'm misstepping. So it is,
it is a constant thing. It'snot, you know, some people
believe in the 10 Commandmentsin the Bible and to follow that,
(26:02):
but think of how many, how manypeople go astray from that? Or
they interpret it in their ownway? There is no other way to
interpret these seven teachings,besides exactly what they say.
They are, verbs, action words,for a reason, and it's just a
(26:23):
way to live, and it's helped mereally make important decisions
in my life, to know that I'mmeant to do certain things, and
to have that belief in myself.And again, like everybody, I'm
human, and I waver and havedoubts. And then I meet people
(26:45):
like you or like Sunshine, orother people that are like, Yes,
I get this. I understand this. Iunderstand you. And it's okay to
have these little blips alongthe path. It's perfectly fine,
because at the end of the day,you know, you have that, that
(27:05):
energy and that essence aboutyou. I mean that's where you can
create your people, I guess,when it comes down to it, is
that energy and that vibe andeverything you just get from
people. And I think thatconnectedness of nativeness as
well. Native people can spoteach other, and we get that
(27:26):
little vibe from each other.
But when you say and one, andyou talked about, like, your
vibe, right, and one of thethings that, early on, I really,
really appreciated was thenaturalness in which you focus
on representing like the greatergood of all of the tribes, not
just your tribe, not justyourself as an individual.
(27:48):
Right? You would, whenappropriate, you would
distinguish and give credit tothe teachings or the beliefs or
whatever, right, if, if a tribewasn't yours and things like
that, right? But you also, butyou were really more focused on,
hey, look, let's talk about whatmakes us the same, and focus on
on those aspects, right andinside of that we can then
(28:10):
provides a safe space for whatmakes us unique in our different
individualities. And I was andwhen you and I hadn't thought
about it until one of ourconversations and I went, that's
one of the things that's missingin the world, right? There's not
enough people that are kind ofthat are focused on, like you
(28:30):
said, whether it be, here's thethe Creator story that keeps us
together, right? We may havedifferent opinions on some of
that journey, but at the end ofthe day, the essence of why
we're here and where we'resupposed to go, and how we're
meant to be caretakers andstewards, right, is, the same
and so you'll speak to that. Andso that's, I guess, that's what
(28:52):
I'm trying to highlight, is oneof the things that has always
impressed me about you, and thenyou do it so naturally that I
wish there was more of and howdid you get to, how did you get
to that spot? As opposed tofocusing strictly on your tribe,
which, by the way, I'm notsaying there's anything wrong
with that. All things areneeded, right? I mean, that's to
reclaim, you know, there needsto be people who reclaim their
(29:14):
individual selves, people thatreclaim it at the tribal level,
and then people that reclaim itat the collective level, right?
So I want to be clear that, youknow, I just everybody. I want
to see everybody reclaim it. Butanyway, how did you yourself
decide that that's the spotwhere you feel comfortable is
kind of representing thecollective?
I mean, I think because it's,it's who I am. I'm not just
(29:36):
Ojibwe, you know, I have otherparts of me. I am a true product
of assimilation. I had to becomfortable and love all parts
of me, colonized and colonizer.I think more people need to be
real and honest about themselvesand their truth of where they
(29:58):
come from, who they are and it'sokay to be more than one thing.
It's okay to to be this mixtureof things. Some people might
latch on to one part and justrun with it. I've always looked
at all the different facets andtried to find the commonalities
(30:23):
among by myself, my ownbackground. I guess it just
didn't, I don't know, it didn'tbother me to not be, you know,
full blooded native on thenative side. You know, they
looked at me as, you know, thecousin from the US. But on the
(30:46):
US side, I was, you know, theIndian kid in class. I was
little Indian girl whose parentsor grandparents came and taught
about the culture. They wouldcome into different schools and
set up the table and educatepeople. And everyone always knew
that. You know, I was Indiangirl. Even now, I still have
people I went to high schoolwith on Facebook that will
(31:08):
message me, Oh, I saw this thingand it made me think of you.
Remember when your grandmothercame into my classroom when we
were in second grade? So I meanit, it stuck with a lot of
people, and it made me thinklike, if people are still
connecting that that long ago,this is something I need to do,
(31:28):
and this is something that I cando, that my grandparents
started, you know, 40 years ago,more than 40 ago, but with my
education and that 40 years ago,so that really gave me the
encouragement and to know thatthere is this need for people to
(31:49):
want to learn about not only myculture, but different cultures.
And I don't ever think that mineis better than anybody else's.
For this area, yes, we're justmore knowledgeable, because this
for us was Turtle Island, and mygrandparents said, my grandma
always said, you know, we'vebeen here for over 12,000 years.
(32:10):
This is where our people arefrom. And I never thought that
DNA could prove that sort ofthing, but my DNA did. It traced
my mom's Haplogroup, which isthe native side to Sault Saint
Marie, 12,500 years ago. And soI don't have to ever feel like I
(32:32):
need to. I don't like provemyself to anybody. I guess I
don't feel that because I havethat ancestry. I have, you know,
one of my great grandfathersthat was a treaty signer. I may
(32:52):
be more fortunate than somepeople that are fair skinned
natives, whereas I've alwaysknown my history, I know that
I'm Native. I don't have toprove that, you know, and I feel
like that happens with so manypeople that maybe don't, don't
look like their race, or halfmixed, whatever, have always
(33:13):
felt the need to prove andespecially in native country,
because people think that. Imean, everybody claims that they
have some kind of native. Idon't want to cause controversy
by saying that, but I have heardthat for most people, and for
some people, it's totallyplausible. If you if your
(33:33):
ancestors came here, you know,150, 200 years ago. Definitely.
Even prior to that. I mean,there's, I think that a lot of
people have that, and if theytruly embody that and want to
claim that, then seek it out.You know, do some kind of
(33:55):
research and but if you don'tfeel the need to have to prove
that, then just live it, anddon't, don't allow other people
to question your identity.There's nobody else that should
be questioning your identity.
So speaking of questioning youridentity, that's another
(34:16):
important thing, especially likein the spiritual community,
it's, it's really easy forpeople to be asked, either asked
or it happens on, you know, as abyproduct or something where,
where a cause or a belief or aphilosophy becomes an
individual's identity, right?And then, you know, and they
(34:38):
change as a result of what theybelieve in, right? And you,
you've always, this is who I am.This is what I stand for.
However, as part of where Istay, part of what I stand for
is this collective. So how is itthat you found a way to maintain
those boundaries of not losingyourself while yet being fully
(34:58):
passionate about what yourepresent for both when you're
representing your tribe and inthe collective of what you
believe in?
Yeah. I mean, I think mychildren probably disagree,
because when I get intosomething, I just go in, like,
I'm hard at it for two or threemonths, and I'm like, Ah, okay,
I'm good with that. So I do thatquite a bit, but if I truly want
(35:23):
to know something and I want toshare it with other people, then
I need to understand it fully,and the best way to do that is
to get many different opinionsand many different sources. And
you know, why wouldn't I, I lookto somebody who, you know might
(35:44):
be from a different culture, buthas that same kind of tie, that
same kind of connection andfeeling of wanting to educate
other people about it. You know,I've met with a lot of African
American scholars, a lot ofAsian American scholars, a lot
of different ethnicities, andthat's what they've always said,
(36:06):
is they really want to teachtheir culture from their
perspective, but also connect itwith, you know, so It's
relatable to other people, sopeople can understand it and
identify with it. And I think alot of times that's how you you
(36:28):
get allies, or you get people towant to sit there and to hear
what you have to say, is byconnecting it to them in some
way. And we do all have theseinterconnections, despite our
backgrounds, despite where wecome from. And before I get into
the how I, you know, setboundaries and that sort of
thing, I wanted to touch backon, you know, how all these
(36:54):
tribes were very different, butyet we had those similarities,
and a lot of it is just based onwhere we were. You know, we we
had different foods that we atebecause of where we live. We had
different animals to eat becauseof what was in the area,
different plants, differentfoods, all of those things were
(37:14):
based on our environment. Andthat's why we had to be so in
tune and in touch with ourenvironment is because it
allowed us to survive.Everything around us mattered in
our survival. So, you know,Navajo people needed different
(37:34):
survival methods than us up herein the North, you know, I mean,
they weren't worried about, youknow, foraging and saving for
the winter months, when therewas no sun, or, you know, there
was snow on the ground and youcouldn't have things grow. So
just very, very different waysof life. But at the end of the
(37:59):
day, believing in the creatorand our environment to give us
life into sustained life. And Ithink that's where that
connectiveness of this, of this,I always say people expect us
to, like, pull our hair togetherin a ponytail, like they do an
Avatar, and connect it to theground. Like, here we are, we're
(38:20):
plugging into the earth becausewe're native. But I think it
comes back to that justrespective understanding.
Everything that we need tosurvive is provided to us. All
of these other things. It's justextra created things that we
really, truly don't need tosurvive.
(38:44):
And so how are, I mean, again,there's so much information
right there that I've got topull myself back a step. How are
and so, how is your more globalperspective, I guess, received
amongst those that are maybemore focused on their individual
tribes or otherwise, right? Doyou feel like, is there
(39:05):
conflict? Or they're like, Hey,don't you say like you speak for
us. Or is it, is it more likebecause of what you say, you're
like, hey, you know nobody,nobody ever what I speak for is
the under is the glue that bindsall of us together. And so
therefore there is reallyanything to disagree with or,
and how does that work?
(39:26):
Yeah, well, first and foremost,I speak for myself.
Okay, yes. Thank you forclarifying that.
Even when I do because and we'reall unique, nobody should ever
speak for anybody else. I mean,I can speak about my
experiences, my family ancestry,my life, all of those things.
(39:46):
And other people may have somekind of shared experience or
similarity, you know, similarexperiences but we're not - none
of us have had the exact samepath. So that's why I approach
it in a more open with moreopenness, because none of us
have had the same path, and inorder to make those connections,
(40:08):
we have to be open to almost anykind of connection. It could be
something as simple as, youknow, cooking over an open fire
and the way that you set thelogs, a certain way to make sure
that the heat goes up and, youknow, it's concentrated in one
area, is the same way that maybesome Irish people remember their
(40:32):
grandparents cooking over thefire. You know, there's so many
come common, commonalities amongdifferent cultures and people
that I think if we got, if wefocus more on that, that's
what's going to get us ahead,and that's what's going to move
us forward as a people, as asociety, instead of constantly
(40:54):
concentrating on thesedifferences. We all need Earth
to survive. We all need water todrink. We all need these things.
(41:20):
The other point, so that youtouch on it's also really more
important. I don't know if it'sfrom a political aspect or a
come together, but when it comesto creating change is just
needed, which is, if every thechallenge with every was when
everyone's trying to have avoice, is that everyone's trying
to have voice, and no one'scoming together, right? So that
(41:41):
inherently, that splinteringmakes it challenging, then to
for the collective to createtraction and move that mutual
agenda forward, right? Because,in many cases, right, each group
is just trying to get in manyit's trying to get acknowledged,
heard, action, you know, fortheir respective communities and
things, right? And you know andlike, and in survival instincts,
(42:02):
right, you're always taking careof your community before
yourself. But generallyspeaking, I think right, it's,
it's more of an instinct to takecare of your immediate community
versus, you know, overalleverybody, right? And so until
the individual needs are met,the collective needs, it's
harder to get met. And so that'sone of the things though, that,
(42:22):
and this is why, I guess, it'sso important, is because that
ability to find what brings ustogether is what also enables
the collective to say, hey, waita second here, more of us are
marginalized that are not. Sohow is it that the system is not
is working against us whenthere's more of us that if we
all actually, like got togetherand voted and did separate, we
(42:43):
could actually --
The system wants you to believethat this person is more
marginalized than you have been,and that these people are more
marginalized, and it's stillpitting us against each other.
And there's not enough cardsthat everybody could lay out to
talk about things, about, youknow, what has happened to all
different kinds of people.
(43:03):
That's why this is, yeah, sothat's exactly why this is such
an important topic is because inorder for what, really where I
want to, you know, becausebefore I do want to spend a few
minutes on this topic, is that,then, that topic of that healing
and coming together, right? Wetalk about how, right, the
system benefits when they'resplintered and hostility towards
(43:26):
each other, and nothing thengets changed, right? Because
everyone's not looking at the... everyone's distracted. And I
wondered, how do we then get tothe place where I can feel
comfortable, and this is some ofthis is my own hangups that I'm
saying, right, so I'm puttingmyself out here as well in this
(43:46):
podcast, is saying, I've alwaysfelt more comfortable around
when you would talk about yourteachings, your you know, your
beliefs, or your you know, aswell as the few times that you
know, I've had the pleasure ofattending a powwow. Even though
(44:08):
I blame no clue at all what wasgoing on, I felt much more
connected, much more at home,much more welcomed, without
anybody even saying anything tome, than I do if I were to walk
on to a traditional like, thatif I was to walk into, I don't
(44:32):
know, what would people thinkthat my traditional people would
be, like, I don't know. Wherethere is just a bunch of white
people, I don't know. Like, Idon't feel like that. Like, I
don't like, you put me into acollege, you put me into a
traditional businessenvironment, yeah, just because
I learned how to get by in thoseenvironments, so to speak,
right, doesn't mean that thoseare I was comfortable, and
that's where I mean, you knowwhat I mean, felt myself. And
(44:53):
so where I struggle with, andthis is where I want to, is that
like I would have said, like Iwhen I say, Who are my people,
when I think about, who are mypeople that better represent,
like you said, my shared beliefsand things like that, right,
it's more, it's more of theNative Americans and first,
First Nation and Indigenoustribes, not just here, but but
(45:14):
throughout, right, Eastern andWestern cultures, right? There's
so much, there's so manysimilarities like you don't, in
their, in their in theirconnectivity to Earth and things
like that. But yet I feel like,Oh, my God. I would never say,
say my people referring to inthe same way that you referred
to your people, right, in termsof, you know, those communities.
I'm like, Yeah, that's a phrase,the fastest way for me to never
get invited back or to not makeany new friends, right? And so
(45:38):
how do we get to that spot,though, where, like, we all are
like, yeah, when it comes towhat is my people, my people is
human. My people are the peoplethat that believe that being in
humans means being in harmonywith each other. It doesn't
mean. It means being operatingfrom knowing that we'll what we
care for will be provided forus. We don't have to live in
scarcity and fear and then, andthen war and these, in these
(46:02):
other ways, right? We could, wewere meant to live in harmony
with our surroundings and that.And yes, that doesn't mean and
then, but living in harmony withsurroundings includes knowing
how to for that stuff andspirituality, I'll live with the
advancements in technology too.That's not one or the other,
it's both, right? They all needto operate and move and when
they don't operate in harmony,that's when we run into issues.
(46:24):
So how do we start right? Like Iwould, let's just start with me.
Right? It's just you and metalking like you said, we can't
speak for anybody else but ourown selves, our experiences and
so how do I, how do I get to aspot where I feel comfortable
and where it's safe for me to torefer to like, when you to say,
yeah, that that's my those aremy people too.
(46:46):
Yeah, well, to appreciate it andto not appropriate. To know like
for me, like I can, I canappreciate rap music. I love Dr.
Dre I love Snoop Dogg, yeah, butI'm not going to be saying
certain words when I'm singingthe songs, because, you know,
that's, it's not that that's notfor me to say. And it's almost
(47:09):
that, that same kind of thing.It's just have that respect and
that appreciation and you willbe brought into it. There will
be a day when it will be, youknow, acceptable for you to say,
you know, these, these kind ofare my people. I don't know if
that's a big fault forindigenous people or a great
(47:30):
quality for them, because lookwhat did happen, you know, by
sharing the land, by sharing theknowledge, by sharing, you know,
how to survive in on this land,and that's, I think, trauma that
needs to that has been passeddown through DNA, but it also
needs to be addressed and, youknow, worked through and then
(47:57):
healing. And that comes throughthat bridge, that connection to
people. And I've always feltlike for some reason, because I
am both sides, that I am kind ofthat bridge for a lot of things,
because I can see it from bothsides. And because I embody
both, you know, my Indigenousand my non native side, the the
(48:18):
white side, the French, Englishsides of me, you know.
And the American side and theCanadian side, which I think is
really important. I think beingable to understand things from a
totally different country andcultural perspectives, in
addition to, in addition to,like I said, like 10, like four
separate cultures, and so, whichis, I mean, that's to me, I
(48:39):
think that's so amazing andfascinating to be able to have
firsthand experience. We think,well, what would this work? Or
would that work, right? And, andrecognizing, you know, having
all of this wealth of knowledgeto pull from, I don't know.
But that's embodying that, thoseteachings being that, that
honesty and that truth ofknowing, of knowing, you can go
(49:00):
to this powwow, you canappreciate it. You can feel the
heartbeat of Mother Earth, andyou can be moved by it, and you
can feel sadness for what youknow what has happened to Native
people, but understanding thatyou know in this lifetime or in
this current whatever, thatthat's not that's not you. That
(49:22):
that's not your that's not yourtrauma, essentially, to heal
from. It's maybe trauma thatyour ancestors maybe helped, my
ancestors helped inflict. And sowe all are a part of that
healing I feel, and I think, youknow, so many times I've heard
(49:48):
because I've wanted to partnerup with different different
groups, different minorities,and there was this one group I
wanted to partner up with inDetroit, and I remember them
saying flat out to me, yourpeople got reparations, and our
people never did. And I'm like,what -- Wait? What do you mean?
(50:08):
How did we get reparations?Like, how did my ancestors get
that? By residential schoolwhere they were abused, beaten,
couldn't speak their language.Like, where are you getting this
from? And they're like, Well,you got land, and you have
casinos and you get freecollege, you get all these
things. And I'm like, well, insome cases, that's true for some
(50:28):
tribes, yeah. But not for everytribe. And I really had to look
at from that, that differentperspective, of like, wow,
that's why they're looking atthe differences between us
instead of the similarities. Andthis is a group that isn't
ready. They're they're nothealed from, they're not wanting
(50:51):
to work on the trauma. They'restuck there, and it's not a
group that I can work with. Andthat's where I think for myself,
of of setting those boundariesand always being true to myself,
like I'm not going to forcepeople to heal from trauma, to
come together until they'reready. All I can do is share the
knowledge and hope that they,you know, can can take what they
(51:17):
need out of it to move forwardand and to heal whatever they
got going on, so that they cansee these similarities better.
And I think Native people havealways been accepting and
innovative when it comes tothings, and we realize we can
never go back. This land cannever go back to the way it was
(51:39):
before colonization.
Welcome to another episode ofUnderstanding the Science of You
(00:03):
with Graham Skidmore and I amjoined by Jodi Branton. Thank
you for joining us today, Jodi.Hi, thanks for having me. Yeah,
so just to give you guys alittle background on how Jodi
and I crossed paths. So ifanybody's if you've been
listening up to this point intime, then you know my, one of
my first guests, Sunshine, is amutual friend of ours, and so we
(00:27):
were introduced at her house.But you know, definitely, you
know, felt very comfortable witheach other. And you know, as I,
as I got to know Jodi, Irealized that she was a treasure
trove of information on a lot oftopics. I don't mean like that
friend of yours who has anopinion about everything, right?
I mean, that's not, that's notsuper helpful. We all have those
(00:47):
people, right? I'm talkingabout, and I'm not talking about
somebody who's necessarily, youknow, book read, right? While
that's extremely impressive, I'mtalking about somebody who's
actually walked in the footstepsof that experiential learning in
many, many different aspects oflife, and can then speak from,
(01:08):
from a personal perspective, asyou know, of learning, as well
as learning from books on somany topics. And it's always
fascinated me, you know, justthe depth of her knowledge. And
as we just, we just talkingright, just, we just run a
campfire at Sunshine's onFriday, on Saturday, and we
(01:29):
started talking about somethingrandomly, and then you just also
then rattled off like two orthree things that were totally
synergies with something I needto work out in your knowledge
and just again, was anotherexample of your, of your vast
experience and knowledge. Sothat's me kind of just painting
a very broad brush. So why don'tyou, since I've already set this
(01:51):
up, and you have to kind of tootyour own horn now a little bit,
right, based on the way that Ithat I've laid this, laid this
out, so please tell, yeah, soplease toot your horn a little
bit. Tell, tell the listenerssome of the great things you've
accomplished academically, someof the different jobs that
you've had, shoes you've had achance to walk in, you know, to
kind of to better put some meaton the bone to my comments.
(02:17):
Yeah, I guess I started, youknow, I grew up in a little
town, Port Huron, Michigan,right across my reservation,
which is Aamjiwnaang FirstNation. And I grew up in the
same house, same friends, allthe way up until I got married
at 18 years old. So I had avery, I don't know, very
(02:40):
non-adventurous, I would say,childhood. For us, it was, you
know, powwows, church things,and you know what to me, it
wasn't, it didn't seemadventurous to me. And then I,
you know, I got, got marriedyoung, moved down to Savannah,
Georgia, and had our daughter.And I just kind of I enjoyed it.
(03:08):
It was nice being someplaceelse, learning a new culture and
not but I didn't see my cultureanywhere there. And I started to
kind of move away from it alittle bit. And then we moved up
to New York. We had twin boys,and that's when my grandmother
passed away. And this was in1999 when she passed away, and
(03:31):
they were born in 2000 and Ijust had this draw to come back
to my culture, to fulfill Idon't know these, these little
adventures that I'd had in mymind when I was younger of what
I wanted to be, or who I thoughtI was. And it wasn't a mom and a
(03:54):
stay at home mom and a wife. Itwas, you know, to go out and to
have knowledge, to share thatknowledge. I had gotten away
from my culture, basically, forabout eight or nine years. Moved
back to Michigan and decided tojust completely change my life
(04:16):
and go to college. And I went toUniversity of Michigan, studied
American Culture with the intentof maybe going to law school,
being a lobbyist for Nativerights. You know, all these
different ideas that I had ofwhat I wanted to do. And in
studying American Culture, Irealized that it wasn't just my
(04:36):
history that was inaccurate. Itwas so many other histories, you
know, in Japanese Americanhistory, African American
history, and I was like, How canI ... how can I fix this? You
know, studying how America cameto be, what Americans are, our
(04:57):
culture as as America, reallymade me think so much more about
my ancestors, what they wouldhave lived through just for me
to be here and to not have thatconnection to my culture was
just something missing from mylife. And I joined the student
(05:20):
organization there. It's calledNASA, which is Native American
Student Association, which Istill volunteer and help at the
powwow that they have every yearin Ann Arbor. And it just kind
of rekindled that, that fire.And from there, I went ahead and
got accepted into a teachingprogram, which took me out to
(05:43):
Compton, California, and then toLas Vegas, where I did my
master's in education. I wantedto change the curriculum from
from the inside, I guess, andonce I did get my degree in
curriculum and development, Ijust realized that this is such
a bigger issue than that. Thecurriculum gets changed every 10
(06:08):
years. It's very hard to getthings added, you know,
corrected, those sort of things.So I was like, Okay, there's --
I felt very defeated. I reallydidn't enjoy teaching in the
classroom setting as much as Ithought I would. And moved back
home to Michigan, reconnectingagain with those roots. I
(06:32):
started teaching at the localcommunity college. Was really
involved with the diversity andinclusion group there. Brought a
powwow to the community collegeand Native American Day, those
sort of things, that I thoughtwould be helping in a way, and I
(06:53):
found that it was more just likea one and done type thing. There
wasn't a continual. I didn'tthink there was an audience for
a continual learning. And as Igrew in my career and traveled,
I realized that there was. Therewas a lot of people out there
(07:14):
that are wanting this culturalknowledge and also wanting to
return to maybe their owncultural traditions or
knowledge, and not knowing howto do that. So just by chance,
my my ex husband ended upgetting a job in Washington, DC,
(07:34):
and I went to go visit. And Iwent to the American Indian
Museum, the Smithsonian AmericanIndian Museum. And it just felt
-- I was drawn there for somereason, like this was supposed
to be the next step in myjourney. I don't know why. I'd
never been there before,anything like that. I just
really felt that. And I appliedfor a job, and I wasn't
(07:58):
initially selected through thevetting process, I guess, that
the computer does. And when Igot the email saying that I
wasn't selected, I emailed themback, and I was like, What do
you mean I wasn't selected? Didyou look at my resume? Did you
look at my history and myexperience? And I got an email
back from the museum, and theybrought me in for an interview,
(08:22):
and ended up getting theposition there in the education
department of being a culturalinterpreter. So what --
I'm sorry, where again was yougot employed? I just want to
make sure that it's crystalclear.
At the Smithsonian NationalMuseum of the American Indian in
Washington, DC. And I did, yeah,I did have those moments of
(08:44):
like, how did this this thislittle Indian girl from this
little small town end up here? Iwould just kick back and put my
feet up on my desk, and rightoutside the window was the
National Air and Space Museum,and further down the Washington
Monument, and I was just like,Okay, if, if I can do this, and,
(09:05):
you know, anybody can do this.I'm really no different than
anyone else, and how do I reallyinstill that in not only my
people, but anyone that Iencounter? Like that, they can
really do whatever they settheir mind to. My time there
(09:27):
wasn't as long as maybe I -- Idon't know, it just didn't feel
like I was meant to be therevery long, you know, I felt that
way throughout my lifein manyplaces, I meant to kind of go
(09:47):
in, get what I need, share whatI need, and then move on to the
next step. And that does kind oftie in with my Ojibwe name,
which was given to me by mygrandmother. I was about four
years old in a naming ceremony.And that is bimskenoten, which
means little whirlwind. So I, Ifeel like I truly embody it in
(10:13):
so many ways, like I lived in,you know, 12 different cities
just kind of picking up andmoving and, yeah, I never stayed
any place too long. And then Idecided it was a time to come
back home again. And mygrandfather was sick at this
time, and now he had passedaway. So both of my true
(10:40):
connection to my culture that Ididn't appreciate as much as I
should have were now gone.Unfortunately, my mother was
born in 1950. That wasn't a timethat it was cool to be native.
So she never had regalia. Shedidn't dance in powwows. The
(11:01):
traditions and culture weren'tpassed down to her. It was
almost this whole generationthat didn't receive this
knowledge. And in actuality, itwasn't even legal to have Native
American religious ceremonies orpowwows or that into until the
late 1970s I think it was 1978and then the early 80s when laws
(11:28):
started to change. It was kindof, I guess, cool to be native
and cool to be Indian. And mygrandmother was very much
involved in that movement ofbringing back the culture to
everybody. And was, you know,she founded one of the groups in
(11:53):
the blue water area, and broughtthe education, Indian education
program there. And we were allall together growing up, you
know, learning Anishinaabeculture, which is this area,
Anishinaabe means first peoples,and the Anishinaabe people are
(12:13):
from the Great Lakes region. Sothat includes the Ojibwa, which
is the same as Chippewa, Ottawa,which is Odawa and then
Potawatomi. So the three ofthose tribes are considered the
three fires of Michigan.
(12:39):
So here's the question that Iguess I'm trying to figure out,
is, you mentioned all thedifferent names as, like, being
similar, but then different. Socan you just expand on that so I
help to better understand, like,are they always at all one big
tribe, or is it all bunch ofseparate ones that kind of share
some common bonds? Or, like,what does that mean?
Yeah, I mean, definitely thecommon bonds, and that is the
(13:00):
Great Lakes area. But there wereresponsibilities. You know, we
responsible for the trade,responsible for the land,
responsible for water, thosesort of things. And keepers of
the fire, which anyone who hasbeen down to, maybe Firekeepers
Casino down towards BattleCreek, it they Potawatomi are
(13:21):
the Firekeepers, and that'stheir area, is on the west side
of Michigan now. When I saidOjibwa, which is the same as
Chippewa, there's manydifferent, I guess, legends or
stories of how that came about,but the one that I was always
taught is that when we firststarted interacting with the
(13:43):
French, they could not sayOjibwa, and they said Chipwa.
And it's stuck. So even today,you still have tribes that will
go by Chippewa, and a lot ofthem have a lot more interaction
in more French roots. SaultSaint Marie is a good a good
(14:03):
example of that. You know,there's a lot of Ojibwe. I say
Ojibwe, a lot of Chippewa ofthere. And there are many
different tribes. In the UnitedStates, there's over 550
different tribes that arefederally recognized. In
Michigan, there's 14. And out ofthose 14, they all are Ojibwe,
(14:25):
Potawatomi, or Odawa Ottawa. Itreally is just a matter of also
with the the Canadian and theAmerican side, which my
reservation was established in1827, pushed right across into
Great Britain, Britishterritory. And that also has a
(14:49):
lot of influence in how we'rereferred in paperwork. Wome
treaties in the US will sayChippewa and write it out that
way. In Canada, more Ojibwe. Sothat's where I think, for me, I
just always identified asIndian. And that was the weird
(15:10):
thing, like I didn't, I didn'tunderstand the differences
between all my friends that werein the Indian Education program.
Some were Pima from thesouthwest, some were Oneida from
Canada. And, you know, some wereeven Navajo from out west too,
(15:30):
and we didn't really understandthose differences. At that time,
the culture was so lost thatthere was almost this pan Indian
identity where all natives kindof identified themselves with
headdresses, teepees ,and thatsort of thing when that isn't
(15:51):
the case.
How would you highlight some ofthose differences in ways that I
that, I guess, allows you tohonor the differences, but then
also kind of touch base on whatkeeps what also makes everything
the same, because, and then I'llget into my next question after
that.
Yeah, well, I mean, theoverarching idea of a creator,
(16:13):
you know, as opposed to, youknow, maybe a god or the triad
or the Trinity, whatever it isin religious aspects of that.
But I think that it was justthis commonality of wanting to
(16:33):
gather together, to want tolearn, maybe what our ancestors
had lost. It was -- they werefinding documents. They were
finding information. People wereafraid to talk and to really
share their culture until itbecame essentially legal.
(16:56):
Wait a second you're telling methat this is -- so when was up
until when you tell me it wasillegal to be whether you
identified as First Nation,Indigenous, Native American, it
was illegal to share yourculture until what time?
Well, it was legal to practicethe culture. yep, into the 19 I
(17:17):
think it was 1978 and that's thefreedom of religion. 1978 Yeah
So, I mean, literally, I was, Iwas born in 76. It is, it is so
mind boggling from to me to sayout loud -- in my lifetime
Yeah. Native American,Indigenous, First Nation, could
(17:44):
not practice, we're not allowedto be themselves. That's always
my one. They were not allowed tobe themselves. Yeah? That is so
twisted on so many levels. I'msorry. You know, I get, I get
worked up, and it makes mereally sad, not to mention
there's so much wisdom. Yeah, Imean 1978 I mean, I was born in
(18:05):
1977 so it's actually in in mylifetime, too. And what it
actually says is the AmericanIndian Religious Freedom Act of
1978 protects the rights ofNative Americans to exercise
their traditional religions byensuring access to sites, use,
possession of sacred objects,and the freedom to worship
through ceremonial andtraditional rights. So that's
(18:28):
what was essentially given backto us. Some tribes had Legalized
oppression, unfargen believable.Yeah, I mean, because it was, I
mean, they did have gatheringsof powwows, that sort of thing,
I mean, but it was, I mean, youhave to think their idea of
natives was the Wild West, theBuffalo Bill Show. That sort of
(18:51):
thing. And natives as beingsavage and wild. The 60s came
along and then there was thiskind of movement for natives,
the American Indian Movement,you know, they took over
Alcatraz in the late 1960s andthey were there for years. A lot
(19:12):
of movie stars started to jumpon that and even Marlon Brando
with, you know, having, SasheenLittlefeather accept his Oscar
for him and say that, you know,he didn't want that because of
the way that natives wereportrayed in in the Hollywood
film industry and that sort ofthing. So there's been small
(19:36):
little pieces of things thatpeople have kind of known, but
it's been this pan, like I said,Pan-Indian identity, whereas
nobody had access to their exactinformation from their tribe. It
wasn't okay to pass thatinformation down. Elders were
(19:59):
quiet. As a result, a lot oftimes of residential schools,
which is a whole other topicthat went from the 1800s all the
way up until the 1980s when thelast one was closed in the US,
and that's when native childrenwere taken and put into these
schools to teach them skills tocivilize them. A lot of things
(20:22):
happened, a lot of trauma, a lotof loss of culture happened in
these schools.
So you have to think you'retrying to rebuild something that
truly was just taken, and someplaces were never able to get
that back, because they're sofar removed from their ancestral
land that they're not able togrow the same kind of medicines
(20:48):
their ancestors grew. They'renot able to, you know, practice
the same ceremonies becausethey're no longer in their
sacred sites anymore, and someof those have been destroyed,
some of them have been givenback. You know, a lot of people
look at Mount Rushmore as a bigUS symbol, but it actually
destroyed some of the sacredmountains for some of the the
(21:10):
Sioux, the Sioux people. Sothere's a lot of things that you
just can't go back on, and wehad to move forward in a way
that would be able to be readyfor the next generations.
Ancestors always said to lookahead seven generations to
ensure that the land that youwalk on, the air that you
(21:31):
breathe, the water that youdrink, is going to be
sustainable for sevengenerations. And it almost
didn't happen. That's odd thatyou know that 1980s type era
really is the coming of thatseventh generation. And you
know, I have always felt that alot of people I've encountered,
(21:54):
a lot of native people Iencountered my age, have always
felt that, that push and thatdrive to bring this to
everybody. So it is, it was aprophecy, you know, that seventh
generation after, aftercolonization in that, and that's
(22:15):
who they looked for to make surethat we would be prepared.
So before I and, you know, Icould go down, we could do so
many episodes, the wisdom lostand injustices and beauty in the
beauty that's been lost overtime. But so let's, I want to
(22:35):
kind of bring it back to you usethe term, you know, 'my people'
and so this is, that's a termthat I'm trying to figure out
how to use for myself. So I'lldiscuss, I'll be very
transparent with the nature ofmy question, and it obviously
ties into the to our topic. Buttoo, when you say, 'my people,'
who do you consider my peoplebe, the first part. And then the
second part is, do those peoplehave to consider you their
(22:58):
people for you to call them 'mypeople?' Like, how does that all
work for you? And being a partof one tribe? Yeah. I mean, I
consider it, you know, myancestors, my lineage, my
history. Those are my people.And just like with anybody
else, you know, you do, you kindof create your own people, in a
(23:21):
way, too, like people that youknow are going to understand
certain things, are going to notjudge you, look at you for for
really who you are, and just,you know, want to share and be
part of that. So I think, youknow, you can apply my people to
whoever you'd like. Yourancestors, the people around
(23:44):
you, but like for me, inparticular, it is my ancestors,
and it's also all Native people,because there is this getting
back to that differences andsimilarities. There is that
underlying connectiveness to theCreator, into wanting to, you
(24:06):
know, save Mother Earth and toensure that she's here for the
seventh generation from us, andthat's where a lot of, you know,
there is a lot of waterprotection. This last weekend,
there was a big event up inMackinac, St. Ignace area, and
just to bring awareness to theprotecting of the water. And I
(24:31):
think a lot of people arestarting to step up and realize,
like, we get one Earth. We getone chance. We're destroying it.
And that's something that isn'tjust for Native people, that's
for everybody. That's foreverybody to come together and
to to save this planet that welive on, and that's why I also
(24:54):
think it's so important for meto share my culture and to share
my teachings, you know, thoseteachings that I've talked about
before, with the the love,respect, wisdom, truth, honesty,
humility and bravery. You embodythose things, and we can all
come together. Imagine if, ifpeople followed that, what an
(25:16):
amazing world it would be. It'snot, I mean, it's not easy, but
they are very simple things, andthat's why It's hard, hard to
disagree with. Yeah, and it forme, that's why I've always been
kind of steadfast in what I doand what I say in that, because
I have that behind me, and Iknow if I'm not living in my
truth, then there's going to beconsequences. I'm not going to
(25:40):
be aligned. There's going to besome kind of chaos in my life
that's, that's not aligning. AndI have to, you know, work and
figure out these things of ofwhere I'm misstepping. So it is,
it is a constant thing. It'snot, you know, some people
believe in the 10 Commandmentsin the Bible and to follow that,
(26:02):
but think of how many, how manypeople go astray from that? Or
they interpret it in their ownway? There is no other way to
interpret these seven teachings,besides exactly what they say.
They are, verbs, action words,for a reason, and it's just a
(26:23):
way to live, and it's helped mereally make important decisions
in my life, to know that I'mmeant to do certain things, and
to have that belief in myself.And again, like everybody, I'm
human, and I waver and havedoubts. And then I meet people
(26:45):
like you or like Sunshine, orother people that are like, Yes,
I get this. I understand this. Iunderstand you. And it's okay to
have these little blips alongthe path. It's perfectly fine,
because at the end of the day,you know, you have that, that
(27:05):
energy and that essence aboutyou. I mean that's where you can
create your people, I guess,when it comes down to it, is
that energy and that vibe andeverything you just get from
people. And I think thatconnectedness of nativeness as
well. Native people can spoteach other, and we get that
(27:26):
little vibe from each other.
But when you say and one, andyou talked about, like, your
vibe, right, and one of thethings that, early on, I really,
really appreciated was thenaturalness in which you focus
on representing like the greatergood of all of the tribes, not
just your tribe, not justyourself as an individual.
(27:48):
Right? You would, whenappropriate, you would
distinguish and give credit tothe teachings or the beliefs or
whatever, right, if, if a tribewasn't yours and things like
that, right? But you also, butyou were really more focused on,
hey, look, let's talk about whatmakes us the same, and focus on
on those aspects, right andinside of that we can then
(28:10):
provides a safe space for whatmakes us unique in our different
individualities. And I was andwhen you and I hadn't thought
about it until one of ourconversations and I went, that's
one of the things that's missingin the world, right? There's not
enough people that are kind ofthat are focused on, like you
(28:30):
said, whether it be, here's thethe Creator story that keeps us
together, right? We may havedifferent opinions on some of
that journey, but at the end ofthe day, the essence of why
we're here and where we'resupposed to go, and how we're
meant to be caretakers andstewards, right, is, the same
and so you'll speak to that. Andso that's, I guess, that's what
(28:52):
I'm trying to highlight, is oneof the things that has always
impressed me about you, and thenyou do it so naturally that I
wish there was more of and howdid you get to, how did you get
to that spot? As opposed tofocusing strictly on your tribe,
which, by the way, I'm notsaying there's anything wrong
with that. All things areneeded, right? I mean, that's to
reclaim, you know, there needsto be people who reclaim their
(29:14):
individual selves, people thatreclaim it at the tribal level,
and then people that reclaim itat the collective level, right?
So I want to be clear that, youknow, I just everybody. I want
to see everybody reclaim it. Butanyway, how did you yourself
decide that that's the spotwhere you feel comfortable is
kind of representing thecollective?
I mean, I think because it's,it's who I am. I'm not just
(29:36):
Ojibwe, you know, I have otherparts of me. I am a true product
of assimilation. I had to becomfortable and love all parts
of me, colonized and colonizer.I think more people need to be
real and honest about themselvesand their truth of where they
(29:58):
come from, who they are and it'sokay to be more than one thing.
It's okay to to be this mixtureof things. Some people might
latch on to one part and justrun with it. I've always looked
at all the different facets andtried to find the commonalities
(30:23):
among by myself, my ownbackground. I guess it just
didn't, I don't know, it didn'tbother me to not be, you know,
full blooded native on thenative side. You know, they
looked at me as, you know, thecousin from the US. But on the
(30:46):
US side, I was, you know, theIndian kid in class. I was
little Indian girl whose parentsor grandparents came and taught
about the culture. They wouldcome into different schools and
set up the table and educatepeople. And everyone always knew
that. You know, I was Indiangirl. Even now, I still have
people I went to high schoolwith on Facebook that will
(31:08):
message me, Oh, I saw this thingand it made me think of you.
Remember when your grandmothercame into my classroom when we
were in second grade? So I meanit, it stuck with a lot of
people, and it made me thinklike, if people are still
connecting that that long ago,this is something I need to do,
(31:28):
and this is something that I cando, that my grandparents
started, you know, 40 years ago,more than 40 ago, but with my
education and that 40 years ago,so that really gave me the
encouragement and to know thatthere is this need for people to
(31:49):
want to learn about not only myculture, but different cultures.
And I don't ever think that mineis better than anybody else's.
For this area, yes, we're justmore knowledgeable, because this
for us was Turtle Island, and mygrandparents said, my grandma
always said, you know, we'vebeen here for over 12,000 years.
(32:10):
This is where our people arefrom. And I never thought that
DNA could prove that sort ofthing, but my DNA did. It traced
my mom's Haplogroup, which isthe native side to Sault Saint
Marie, 12,500 years ago. And soI don't have to ever feel like I
(32:32):
need to. I don't like provemyself to anybody. I guess I
don't feel that because I havethat ancestry. I have, you know,
one of my great grandfathersthat was a treaty signer. I may
(32:52):
be more fortunate than somepeople that are fair skinned
natives, whereas I've alwaysknown my history, I know that
I'm Native. I don't have toprove that, you know, and I feel
like that happens with so manypeople that maybe don't, don't
look like their race, or halfmixed, whatever, have always
(33:13):
felt the need to prove andespecially in native country,
because people think that. Imean, everybody claims that they
have some kind of native. Idon't want to cause controversy
by saying that, but I have heardthat for most people, and for
some people, it's totallyplausible. If you if your
(33:33):
ancestors came here, you know,150, 200 years ago. Definitely.
Even prior to that. I mean,there's, I think that a lot of
people have that, and if theytruly embody that and want to
claim that, then seek it out.You know, do some kind of
(33:55):
research and but if you don'tfeel the need to have to prove
that, then just live it, anddon't, don't allow other people
to question your identity.There's nobody else that should
be questioning your identity.
So speaking of questioning youridentity, that's another
(34:16):
important thing, especially likein the spiritual community,
it's, it's really easy forpeople to be asked, either asked
or it happens on, you know, as abyproduct or something where,
where a cause or a belief or aphilosophy becomes an
individual's identity, right?And then, you know, and they
(34:38):
change as a result of what theybelieve in, right? And you,
you've always, this is who I am.This is what I stand for.
However, as part of where Istay, part of what I stand for
is this collective. So how is itthat you found a way to maintain
those boundaries of not losingyourself while yet being fully
(34:58):
passionate about what yourepresent for both when you're
representing your tribe and inthe collective of what you
believe in?
Yeah. I mean, I think mychildren probably disagree,
because when I get intosomething, I just go in, like,
I'm hard at it for two or threemonths, and I'm like, Ah, okay,
I'm good with that. So I do thatquite a bit, but if I truly want
(35:23):
to know something and I want toshare it with other people, then
I need to understand it fully,and the best way to do that is
to get many different opinionsand many different sources. And
you know, why wouldn't I, I lookto somebody who, you know might
(35:44):
be from a different culture, buthas that same kind of tie, that
same kind of connection andfeeling of wanting to educate
other people about it. You know,I've met with a lot of African
American scholars, a lot ofAsian American scholars, a lot
of different ethnicities, andthat's what they've always said,
(36:06):
is they really want to teachtheir culture from their
perspective, but also connect itwith, you know, so It's
relatable to other people, sopeople can understand it and
identify with it. And I think alot of times that's how you you
(36:28):
get allies, or you get people towant to sit there and to hear
what you have to say, is byconnecting it to them in some
way. And we do all have theseinterconnections, despite our
backgrounds, despite where wecome from. And before I get into
the how I, you know, setboundaries and that sort of
thing, I wanted to touch backon, you know, how all these
(36:54):
tribes were very different, butyet we had those similarities,
and a lot of it is just based onwhere we were. You know, we we
had different foods that we atebecause of where we live. We had
different animals to eat becauseof what was in the area,
different plants, differentfoods, all of those things were
(37:14):
based on our environment. Andthat's why we had to be so in
tune and in touch with ourenvironment is because it
allowed us to survive.Everything around us mattered in
our survival. So, you know,Navajo people needed different
(37:34):
survival methods than us up herein the North, you know, I mean,
they weren't worried about, youknow, foraging and saving for
the winter months, when therewas no sun, or, you know, there
was snow on the ground and youcouldn't have things grow. So
just very, very different waysof life. But at the end of the
(37:59):
day, believing in the creatorand our environment to give us
life into sustained life. And Ithink that's where that
connectiveness of this, of this,I always say people expect us
to, like, pull our hair togetherin a ponytail, like they do an
Avatar, and connect it to theground. Like, here we are, we're
(38:20):
plugging into the earth becausewe're native. But I think it
comes back to that justrespective understanding.
Everything that we need tosurvive is provided to us. All
of these other things. It's justextra created things that we
really, truly don't need tosurvive.
(38:44):
And so how are, I mean, again,there's so much information
right there that I've got topull myself back a step. How are
and so, how is your more globalperspective, I guess, received
amongst those that are maybemore focused on their individual
tribes or otherwise, right? Doyou feel like, is there
(39:05):
conflict? Or they're like, Hey,don't you say like you speak for
us. Or is it, is it more likebecause of what you say, you're
like, hey, you know nobody,nobody ever what I speak for is
the under is the glue that bindsall of us together. And so
therefore there is reallyanything to disagree with or,
and how does that work?
(39:26):
Yeah, well, first and foremost,I speak for myself.
Okay, yes. Thank you forclarifying that.
Even when I do because and we'reall unique, nobody should ever
speak for anybody else. I mean,I can speak about my
experiences, my family ancestry,my life, all of those things.
(39:46):
And other people may have somekind of shared experience or
similarity, you know, similarexperiences but we're not - none
of us have had the exact samepath. So that's why I approach
it in a more open with moreopenness, because none of us
have had the same path, and inorder to make those connections,
(40:08):
we have to be open to almost anykind of connection. It could be
something as simple as, youknow, cooking over an open fire
and the way that you set thelogs, a certain way to make sure
that the heat goes up and, youknow, it's concentrated in one
area, is the same way that maybesome Irish people remember their
(40:32):
grandparents cooking over thefire. You know, there's so many
come common, commonalities amongdifferent cultures and people
that I think if we got, if wefocus more on that, that's
what's going to get us ahead,and that's what's going to move
us forward as a people, as asociety, instead of constantly
(40:54):
concentrating on thesedifferences. We all need Earth
to survive. We all need water todrink. We all need these things.
(41:20):
The other point, so that youtouch on it's also really more
important. I don't know if it'sfrom a political aspect or a
come together, but when it comesto creating change is just
needed, which is, if every thechallenge with every was when
everyone's trying to have avoice, is that everyone's trying
to have voice, and no one'scoming together, right? So that
(41:41):
inherently, that splinteringmakes it challenging, then to
for the collective to createtraction and move that mutual
agenda forward, right? Because,in many cases, right, each group
is just trying to get in manyit's trying to get acknowledged,
heard, action, you know, fortheir respective communities and
things, right? And you know andlike, and in survival instincts,
(42:02):
right, you're always taking careof your community before
yourself. But generallyspeaking, I think right, it's,
it's more of an instinct to takecare of your immediate community
versus, you know, overalleverybody, right? And so until
the individual needs are met,the collective needs, it's
harder to get met. And so that'sone of the things though, that,
(42:22):
and this is why, I guess, it'sso important, is because that
ability to find what brings ustogether is what also enables
the collective to say, hey, waita second here, more of us are
marginalized that are not. Sohow is it that the system is not
is working against us whenthere's more of us that if we
all actually, like got togetherand voted and did separate, we
(42:43):
could actually --
The system wants you to believethat this person is more
marginalized than you have been,and that these people are more
marginalized, and it's stillpitting us against each other.
And there's not enough cardsthat everybody could lay out to
talk about things, about, youknow, what has happened to all
different kinds of people.
(43:03):
That's why this is, yeah, sothat's exactly why this is such
an important topic is because inorder for what, really where I
want to, you know, becausebefore I do want to spend a few
minutes on this topic, is that,then, that topic of that healing
and coming together, right? Wetalk about how, right, the
system benefits when they'resplintered and hostility towards
(43:26):
each other, and nothing thengets changed, right? Because
everyone's not looking at the... everyone's distracted. And I
wondered, how do we then get tothe place where I can feel
comfortable, and this is some ofthis is my own hangups that I'm
saying, right, so I'm puttingmyself out here as well in this
(43:46):
podcast, is saying, I've alwaysfelt more comfortable around
when you would talk about yourteachings, your you know, your
beliefs, or your you know, aswell as the few times that you
know, I've had the pleasure ofattending a powwow. Even though
(44:08):
I blame no clue at all what wasgoing on, I felt much more
connected, much more at home,much more welcomed, without
anybody even saying anything tome, than I do if I were to walk
on to a traditional like, thatif I was to walk into, I don't
(44:32):
know, what would people thinkthat my traditional people would
be, like, I don't know. Wherethere is just a bunch of white
people, I don't know. Like, Idon't feel like that. Like, I
don't like, you put me into acollege, you put me into a
traditional businessenvironment, yeah, just because
I learned how to get by in thoseenvironments, so to speak,
right, doesn't mean that thoseare I was comfortable, and
that's where I mean, you knowwhat I mean, felt myself. And
(44:53):
so where I struggle with, andthis is where I want to, is that
like I would have said, like Iwhen I say, Who are my people,
when I think about, who are mypeople that better represent,
like you said, my shared beliefsand things like that, right,
it's more, it's more of theNative Americans and first,
First Nation and Indigenoustribes, not just here, but but
(45:14):
throughout, right, Eastern andWestern cultures, right? There's
so much, there's so manysimilarities like you don't, in
their, in their in theirconnectivity to Earth and things
like that. But yet I feel like,Oh, my God. I would never say,
say my people referring to inthe same way that you referred
to your people, right, in termsof, you know, those communities.
I'm like, Yeah, that's a phrase,the fastest way for me to never
get invited back or to not makeany new friends, right? And so
(45:38):
how do we get to that spot,though, where, like, we all are
like, yeah, when it comes towhat is my people, my people is
human. My people are the peoplethat that believe that being in
humans means being in harmonywith each other. It doesn't
mean. It means being operatingfrom knowing that we'll what we
care for will be provided forus. We don't have to live in
scarcity and fear and then, andthen war and these, in these
(46:02):
other ways, right? We could, wewere meant to live in harmony
with our surroundings and that.And yes, that doesn't mean and
then, but living in harmony withsurroundings includes knowing
how to for that stuff andspirituality, I'll live with the
advancements in technology too.That's not one or the other,
it's both, right? They all needto operate and move and when
they don't operate in harmony,that's when we run into issues.
(46:24):
So how do we start right? Like Iwould, let's just start with me.
Right? It's just you and metalking like you said, we can't
speak for anybody else but ourown selves, our experiences and
so how do I, how do I get to aspot where I feel comfortable
and where it's safe for me to torefer to like, when you to say,
yeah, that that's my those aremy people too.
(46:46):
Yeah, well, to appreciate it andto not appropriate. To know like
for me, like I can, I canappreciate rap music. I love Dr.
Dre I love Snoop Dogg, yeah, butI'm not going to be saying
certain words when I'm singingthe songs, because, you know,
that's, it's not that that's notfor me to say. And it's almost
(47:09):
that, that same kind of thing.It's just have that respect and
that appreciation and you willbe brought into it. There will
be a day when it will be, youknow, acceptable for you to say,
you know, these, these kind ofare my people. I don't know if
that's a big fault forindigenous people or a great
(47:30):
quality for them, because lookwhat did happen, you know, by
sharing the land, by sharing theknowledge, by sharing, you know,
how to survive in on this land,and that's, I think, trauma that
needs to that has been passeddown through DNA, but it also
needs to be addressed and, youknow, worked through and then
(47:57):
healing. And that comes throughthat bridge, that connection to
people. And I've always feltlike for some reason, because I
am both sides, that I am kind ofthat bridge for a lot of things,
because I can see it from bothsides. And because I embody
both, you know, my Indigenousand my non native side, the the
(48:18):
white side, the French, Englishsides of me, you know.
And the American side and theCanadian side, which I think is
really important. I think beingable to understand things from a
totally different country andcultural perspectives, in
addition to, in addition to,like I said, like 10, like four
separate cultures, and so, whichis, I mean, that's to me, I
(48:39):
think that's so amazing andfascinating to be able to have
firsthand experience. We think,well, what would this work? Or
would that work, right? And, andrecognizing, you know, having
all of this wealth of knowledgeto pull from, I don't know.
But that's embodying that, thoseteachings being that, that
honesty and that truth ofknowing, of knowing, you can go
(49:00):
to this powwow, you canappreciate it. You can feel the
heartbeat of Mother Earth, andyou can be moved by it, and you
can feel sadness for what youknow what has happened to Native
people, but understanding thatyou know in this lifetime or in
this current whatever, thatthat's not that's not you. That
(49:22):
that's not your that's not yourtrauma, essentially, to heal
from. It's maybe trauma thatyour ancestors maybe helped, my
ancestors helped inflict. And sowe all are a part of that
healing I feel, and I think, youknow, so many times I've heard
(49:48):
because I've wanted to partnerup with different different
groups, different minorities,and there was this one group I
wanted to partner up with inDetroit, and I remember them
saying flat out to me, yourpeople got reparations, and our
people never did. And I'm like,what -- Wait? What do you mean?
(50:08):
How did we get reparations?Like, how did my ancestors get
that? By residential schoolwhere they were abused, beaten,
couldn't speak their language.Like, where are you getting this
from? And they're like, Well,you got land, and you have
casinos and you get freecollege, you get all these
things. And I'm like, well, insome cases, that's true for some
(50:28):
tribes, yeah. But not for everytribe. And I really had to look
at from that, that differentperspective, of like, wow,
that's why they're looking atthe differences between us
instead of the similarities. Andthis is a group that isn't
ready. They're they're nothealed from, they're not wanting
(50:51):
to work on the trauma. They'restuck there, and it's not a
group that I can work with. Andthat's where I think for myself,
of of setting those boundariesand always being true to myself,
like I'm not going to forcepeople to heal from trauma, to
come together until they'reready. All I can do is share the
knowledge and hope that they,you know, can can take what they
(51:17):
need out of it to move forwardand and to heal whatever they
got going on, so that they cansee these similarities better.
And I think Native people havealways been accepting and
innovative when it comes tothings, and we realize we can
never go back. This land cannever go back to the way it was
(51:39):
before colonization.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.