March 15, 2024 • 28 mins
Join host Samantha on "Up to Speed," as she engages in a riveting conversation with award-winning insurance journalist, Amy O'Connor, on the current challenges and changes permeating the insurance market. Amy, with her 20+ years of industry experience, offers invaluable insights for insurance agents seeking clarity and direction in the volatile market.
In this episode, they delve into how to navigate the overwhelming flux of information, find credible sources, and harness technology to shape their place in the sector. Amid the current 'hard market' phase and its percolating frustrations, Amy emphasizes on validating news at the source and drawing inspiration from veteran agents who've weathered past tumultuous market phases.
The duo further discusses a range of resources available to agents, from associations and online platforms to toolkits like the Hard Market Toolkit by the Big I. In these tough times, Amy highlights the importance of maintaining consistency and deepening personal relations with clients as paramount to succeed.
Unexpectedly, insurance isn't just renewals and rate adjustments. This episode also ventures into lesser-discussed realms like the changing face of diversity, equity, and inclusion within the industry. From the sparse representation of women and people of color in leadership roles to the advent of new age industries like cannabis, this conversation explores how far the insurance landscape has advanced, and the journey ahead.
Get on board this insightful discussion, gain a fresh perspective, and garner some welcome encouragement for a bright future in the insurance industry.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, and thank you for joining us at Up to Speed. We have a great show today.
It's Samantha here, your host, and I am excited to bring to you a content producer,
a friend of mine who is a guru in the insurance industry.
She is an award-winning insurance journalist of over 20 years.
Amy O'Connor, how are you today, my girl?
(00:21):
I am good. This is fun. I've never really been on the other side,
and usually I'm the one interviewing you. you.
Indeed, that is how we met back at your insurance journal days.
You did a story on my work with Sparkle and just being an insurance professional.
So we have a long history, you and I together, and I'm excited to see you on the other side.
I want to jump in today and talk about, you know, there's a lot of different
(00:45):
publications and places where we can get information as insurance agents to
help, you know, if we're interested in a new product, service, market, et cetera.
So I wanted to first start off and, you know, have you kind of give us your
opinion on where do we go to get this information?
Because you hit Google and you find yourself in an abyss of a world that you
might not even have any direction to. So what are your insights here?
(01:06):
Well, it's so funny because I've been in journalism and a writer forever since high school.
And then you tell people, you're a journalist and they go, oh,
that's so cool. What do you write about? And then you say, insurance.
And they go, oh. And the conversation stops.
It's not really like a party topic as most people in the insurance would agree.
(01:26):
And it's not one of those things that, you know, most people are out there searching
for looking for the information.
But then, you know, once I got in the industry, and the reason that I still
cover it, write about it, is because it is way more interesting than people realize.
And there is such a void for insurance professionals and really like getting
(01:46):
down to what it is they want to know.
And, you know, once you're in this world, you kind of do You can look around
and you can see there is a lot of information out there, but how do you find what you need?
And how do agents get down to what's going to help them grow their business
and help their clients and do the day-to-day things that they need to do?
(02:07):
And I think there's a lot of publications, like obviously, shout out to Insurance
Journal, my former employer who I'm still working with and very much a huge cheerleader for.
They do a great job covering the agent channel. And that has been the focus
of the publication for actually they just had their 100 year anniversary last year. Wow.
Yeah, they started off just covering California and it's grown,
(02:30):
you know, obviously, since then it's a nationwide publication.
But there's lots of other ones. there's PC360, there's Independent Agent,
which is a publication of the big eye.
There's digital insurance, which is obviously more of a technical focus for the industry.
And that is a huge thing now too. Technology has completely changed how agents
(02:54):
are doing business. And that's.
There's a little bit of a pushback in some areas of that, but ultimately,
the industry is embracing technology a lot more than they used to.
And there's just so much out there. It's overwhelming.
Yeah. And when I was a reporter and editor, I used to get just pitches constantly
(03:16):
about technology products and vendors and portals and all these things.
And I'm like, how on earth, if you were an agent, would you even know where to start with this?
Like, so, you know, I think for agents, it's really a matter of like figuring
out what is important to you and finding out where you get that information.
And also, you know, the associations are great for that. The big I is great for that.
(03:40):
The triple I is great for that. Your state associations have so much information.
You know, the independent agent association is a huge, huge group.
We have the agents alliance down south, you know, and they're all over California too.
I think a lot of times it's, you know, when you you're a part of these groups
or you're, you know, members, these different associations,
(04:00):
a lot of times it's like you just you need to kind of take the time and understand
where you can go and get the data, because there is so many interesting topics
and things that, you know, you've spent years writing about. out.
But it's almost like, I know I'm guilty as charged.
If I have a topic that comes across my desk and I'm like, I don't know what
that means, I'll Google it.
And I mean, whoa, more times than not, I find myself very overwhelmed real quickly.
(04:25):
Yeah. Yeah. No, completely. And you know, another resource actually that I've
found more recently in the last couple of years that has been really good is LinkedIn.
Following agent groups, following professionals who focus on certain areas of coverage,
following publications and sort of getting their, you know, either their daily
(04:47):
headlines or their weekly top stories or their, you know, Insurance Journal
has a research and trends section that has a lot of information.
And another thing that has become really big too,
as I'm sure you know, because we're sort of doing it right now is webinars and
those conversations, listening to those conversations and getting that information
(05:07):
like in a much more interactive and interesting way than just reading it.
And, you know, the other thing that is funny in sort of what I've been doing is,
Insurance agents are not always great. And this is not, you know,
not meant to be a criticism,
but they aren't always great at sort of getting their own points across and
(05:29):
keeping information in or presenting information in a way that is clear.
So, you know, that's sort of what my job has been over the years and something
that, you know, has sort of kept me going is helping them do that,
helping them break things down,
because you need it to be clear and understandable if you want to engage with people.
(05:51):
And so that's sort of another thing that is good about a lot of the different
resources is that they try to present things in a way that is understandable.
Understandable well i also feel like a lot of these publications
there's a little bit more validity to the storyline because anybody
could put whatever they want online and as you know you
know when you google anything you know you're googling you have
(06:11):
a sore throat and the next thing you know you're dying according to someone
in georgia right who may be just a homeopathic practitioner you know so with
the same thing goes for insurance when you're googling you see a lot of different
lawyers and a lot of different people having their thoughts and feelings so
i feel feel when I'm looking for coverage or, you know, consult in these different areas,
I will tend to gear towards more of a, you know, existing or publication that
(06:35):
I know has been around for a while because I feel like the source is probably
going to be a little bit more legit.
Yeah. Well, and as a journalist or, you know, whatever I am at this point,
you know, one of my favorite sayings has always been like going straight to the horse's mouth.
Like you need to hear it from those people. Like, there's a lot of things that
get said in every medium in the world.
(06:57):
And if you didn't get it from the source, from the actual, you know, legitimate source.
Place, how do you know what you're hearing or reading is true?
And believe it or not, there's been a lot of instances in insurance where things
get put out there and so-and-so is going to stop writing this business or this
company is exiting this market or rates are going up, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
(07:21):
And it's like, okay, but it's irresponsible to put that information out there
unless you know that it's true. Yeah, for sure.
So one thing that you had mentioned when we were chatting was something that
you just worked on about the hard market. it.
I'd love to hear a little bit about that because that is such a topic on agents.
And I don't care where you are, what state you are. We are in it right now across
(07:41):
the board. Oh, especially in California.
Yeah. I mean, I keep seeing these, you know, no one cares about insurance until
they need it or they can't get it.
And suddenly everyone's like, I can't get my homeowner's insurance renewed.
I can't get my business insurance. Why did my rates go up 30 to 40 to 50%?
Like, you know, it's crazy.
And like you thankfully, or that you very kindly Strangely mentioned,
(08:03):
I've been covering the industry for almost 20 years, which, you know, whatever.
It is what it is. But when I started, I used to talk to agents all the time
and they would tell me about, you know, we're in a soft market cycle.
We're in a soft market cycle. The hard market's coming.
And I didn't really understand what that meant. I didn't really know what a hard market was.
(08:24):
And now this is the first so many agents.
This is the first time they have ever seen a hard market. They,
you know, things were good for a very, very, very long time.
And suddenly it changed and people can't, you know, they can't find carriers.
They can't help their clients. Their clients are mad.
(08:45):
Their clients are leaving them. Their clients are dropping coverages that they
probably shouldn't be dropping. shopping, the agents are frustrated,
the agents are, you know, concerned.
And so one of the things with one of the companies I've been working with are
trying, you know, we put together help put together for the big guy, a hard market toolkit.
And so one of the things we did with that is we actually went and talked to
(09:08):
real agents who've been in the business for, you know, 20 to 30 years,
this is not their first hard market, they've been through this before,
they've seen this before.
And And we asked them, what is your advice? How do you get through this?
And what would you tell young agents who haven't seen this before and are maybe
feeling frustrated and like, I'm over it. Everyone said insurance would be a great business.
(09:30):
Not working out for me. So they had some really awesome advice.
And so if you're an agent who is a big I member, you can go on the website and
you can download the Hard Market Toolkit.
We also did a survey with it that, you know, sort of asked their members,
like, you know, like those kinds of questions, like, what are you doing?
(09:51):
And what are you seeing? Like, are clients leaving? Are you having to market
new business more? Are you focusing on retention?
Like, and sort of getting a sense of what's happening?
I don't think the clients are leaving. I mean, the clients have no choice.
And so, I mean, every conversation, for the most part, is a challenging conversation.
I mean, rates are up or it's, you know, what was once available is no longer.
(10:13):
But I think across, it's not like it's just one area of the industry.
I mean, everybody's struggling.
All lines, all lines are up and especially property. It's brutal right now.
Property is, yeah, property.
But I am hearing that, you know, there is starting to be some signs of life
in like professional liability lines and like cyber actually is easing up a little bit,
(10:36):
which I'm sure you know that was getting really hard after so many ransomware
attacks and companies were kind of like,
whoa, maybe we were offering too high limits there.
Maybe we shouldn't have been providing ransomware coverage.
Maybe our million dollar limit for $1,200 wasn't the best idea, carrier A, B, and C.
But it is true.
(10:57):
Some of the markets are easing up a bit with different lines.
The wildfire you know the water you know these
these areas are still suffering but it's
interesting so when i started in the industry it was the hardest of
markets i mean there was like one carrier that
was writing apartment buildings and that was it and after 9-11 yeah that was
(11:17):
20 that was 2005 2004 through 4-3 2003 i mean it was that hard market from you
know from what i've heard is sort of started after 9-11 and then lasted through,
I guess, like the housing crisis.
Yeah. I mean, I think until 2008-9, it was pretty gnarly.
And then for years, it was like, I mean, you were seeing carriers writing- Free-for-all.
(11:40):
I mean, it was like, you're charging what?
And you knew it was going to bite them. And then it kind of did in a big way across the board.
And so it's great that there's some insight to help younger agents realize like,
hey, this is just a big wheel, right? It is a big wheel. It's churning.
And hopefully the cycle will end up in our favor.
(12:00):
And the other important part about that is one of the big points we took away
from the Hard Market Toolkit was like, now is your time to shine.
Now is your time to show your clients why you are there, why they need an agent.
Because, you know, calling up an 800 number.
When you're in a real situation like that, you're not going to get the same
(12:23):
kind of help that you need with the person you've been working for for the last
five years, who knows you, who knows your loss history, who knows the risk mitigation
and risk management tactics that you use,
who can go to bat for you and has those relationships with the carriers and
is willing to say, you know, like, I will vouch for this client.
Like, you know, what you quoted is too high and we can work on that.
(12:46):
Like, or tell us, tell me what to tell them, what they need to do so we can
get the premium at a better price.
Like, you know, that those kinds of things like and I agree.
And I think, too, it's a great time to really hone in on your craft and learn
and get better at the things that bring you joy that, you know,
you're good at and that you can connect with your markets as a producer. producer.
(13:09):
But it is, you know, it is, there are days where you're just like,
what have I, what am I doing?
What, why is everything so hard? The thing that I find interesting,
and I wonder if this was in your findings when you were interviewing,
was that the carriers are so difficult to work with.
I mean, it used to be that the underwriters were excited about writing business.
You know, you would send an email to the carrier or, you know,
(13:31):
an underwriter, and you'd hear back.
I mean, now it's two, three weeks, and I'm like, are you in Bora Bora Laura
under a rock, you know, or someone not watching your day. No,
I'm just, we're just slammed.
They're slammed. Yeah. That was one of the things we included in the toolkit was a timeline.
So it was like, you know, the 30 day window of, of starting the renewal process.
(13:52):
That's not happening right now. You have to go 90, even 120 days on some accounts,
like, which is crazy. Not even know.
Yeah. They may not even know what the rates are going to be at the carriers.
They may not even know if they're writing that, but you've got to start like
laying the foundation so that when that renewal comes up, either you know,
okay, we're not getting it with this carrier anymore,
(14:12):
or you're prepared to talk to your client and be like, look.
Things are shifting around, which is crazy though, because then the other thing
is you get it on somebody's desk 180 days before, and then it sits on there
and it's two weeks before renewal and you still don't have terms.
I mean, that's the story we hear all the time and it's hard.
And so I think I think a lot of it has to be, you know,
(14:33):
what is the expectation of the carriers to the agents and the agents need to
have the expectations of what the carriers need from us to be able to do their job.
And, you know, maybe it was a little too easy for everybody for a while.
Yeah. And ultimately, I'm sure you've heard this a million times,
insurance is a relationship business.
So even if, you know, you're not getting that call back right away,
(14:55):
or the people who used to talk to you you aren't answering the phone.
Like it's not going to be like this forever. That was one of the great quotes
is like this. It's not going to stay like this forever.
And you don't want to burn those bridges when it's like this.
And then when things change, you're like.
They don't want to work with you. So it's, it's important to sort of like,
(15:17):
you know, you got to ride the wave, like everything, right? In life.
It's like, well, in real life, everybody's going through it.
So it's not just you, it's not just, you know, your, you know,
area it's across the nation and even like internationally.
I mean, everybody's feeling it across, across the globe.
So we're all in the same boat and, you know, it's interesting because different
industries have their waves.
(15:38):
So real estate, you know, had their hits, It's bankings had their hits.
Medicines had it. And now it's our turn. So we just got to go through it.
Right. And at the end of the day, everyone needs insurance.
Everyone needs insurance. It's a stable industry. Yeah.
It's one of those things, like I said, when I started covering the industry,
it's like you suddenly look around and you're like, huh, I wonder how they got that insured.
(16:03):
Or I wonder what that policy is. is like, you know, that whole insurance nerd thing.
You're like, oh my God, that's... I am an, yeah, that's me. Hey. Well, I know you are.
Hey there. I don't look like it, but yeah, I definitely nerd out a lot with
insurance and a lot of my friends, as you, like we all can nerd out real quickly about insurance.
(16:23):
So something I find fascinating about you is that you've done so much reporting
on different, you know, facets of the industry.
So what's the most funkiest thing or like the craziest jaw-dropping thing that
you've ever reported on where you're just like, this is bananas?
I mean, there's been, it's honestly, it's probably, it's hard to say one.
There's been some like scandal things. Like I covered an attorney in Florida
(16:48):
who, I mean, if you're not familiar, most people are at this point,
but the litigation problem in Florida is so huge.
And I got a tip one time about this attorney who was going to get in trouble
for filing more than 10,000 lawsuits against property insurance companies.
And he ended up eventually getting disbarred. But, you know,
(17:09):
that was one of, like, Insurance Journal, we broke that story.
And it was just like, I had people, you know, it was, it was sad,
but I, in the end, I'm glad that I was able to cover it because I started getting
phone calls from, from people who were actually victims asking me,
like, you know, I found this story, this lawyer has,
you know, abandoned me, and my mom has had a tarp on her roof for,
(17:35):
two years and I can't get anyone to help me.
And they saw your story and you're like, oh, wow. Okay.
Like, you know, it, so that's kind of stuff that's been crazy.
And then, you know, other things like.
I covered like some Google stories, like when Google started doing some auto
insurance many years ago.
(17:56):
And another really fun one I
did one time was winery, like going to actually went to a winery in Napa.
And we saw, you know, all the way things work. We met with their broker, talked to them.
And that was just like a really cool sort of like how it all works together kind of thing.
And same actually did that with the Anaheim Ducks Stadium.
We talked to their risk risk manager and, you know, that kind of thing.
(18:21):
I mean, there's some other crazier things that probably are not safe for work.
So I feel like there's probably a little bit of those that could be an EPLI problem.
It is interesting, though, when you do unpeel the layers of different industries
and how the insurance, you know, what what applies to those industries?
What are the things that help make them tick? What are their exposures?
(18:44):
Because, you know, when you look at somebody like the Anaheim or the hockey
team, I mean, that's an impressive structure. And I could, I mean,
I wouldn't even know where to begin.
I mean, I could think about a few things. They have to work so closely with
their risk managers because otherwise they can't get coverage even if they're
self-insuring, you know, it's a huge undertaking.
(19:06):
Same with like cannabis. Like that's a big subject that I started covering when
I first started, you know, Writing about insurance, that has now become huge.
Yeah. And insurance is another huge portion of that.
Banks won't have... They can't get loans a lot of times because it's federally illegal.
They can't get what they need for properties like leasing and renting.
(19:31):
No one's going to rent to them if they don't have insurance.
We had some clients, right?
I mean, because we're San Francisco based. So we had some clients right when
it was coming out and it was cool in San Francisco, go and it wasn't cool everywhere else.
And no carrier would touch them, you know, with a 10 foot pole.
I mean, it was hard. I mean, you had to, you had to, you know,
if it wasn't asking the questions, but you knew you needed to disclose it.
(19:53):
So you were like, okay, is this medicinal? Is this recreational?
And now it's a whole industry that's been like fully fascinating.
Yeah. Yeah. And I covered the Southeast for six years and,
you know, being from California, it was so interesting
to me there was like no medical marijuana there
there was nobody it was illegal in so many states
(20:14):
still and that's really changed like it
is a huge industry like and then there's like you know the people working in
insurance who their clients are real business owners and they feel so passionate
about helping them and making sure they get the coverage they need and helping
carriers understand like these are the security measures they are taking this
(20:35):
This is how they store money.
Like this is how much cash they keep on hand.
So, you know, if they get robbed, it's like.
Not as big of a deal, I guess. I don't know. I would always say the best clients
were always like a little bit of the shade, the shadier businesses, right?
The, the bars, the gentlemen's clubs, the cannabis stores, they always pay cash and they always pay.
(20:59):
No, it was always, it was always funny when I was, you know,
and they know how to keep, take care of it. You know, like they're not messing around.
They don't want to lose their business. It's too profitable. And they're booming.
They're always doing well. Yeah, I know. It's crazy.
It is interesting. And it's definitely like, I think it's such a wild,
(21:20):
wild west, you know, with cannabis and even with a lot of tech and a lot of
different, I mean, you're going to see things, you know, ebb and flow as they
kind of come into the environment.
And so it's interesting to watch, I'm sure from your seat, because you get to
cover them and you get to interview and, you know, get to know these different individuals.
Something else that I love a lot about what you do is you work a lot and understand
(21:43):
a lot about women in the industry and that DEI component that we're always looking
for the diversity, the equity, and the inclusion. And it's a big word.
Sometimes I feel like it's almost like a little bit of a buzzword,
like a box a lot of these places are checking because they're supposed to.
Are they implementing it? I don't know. I was having a conversation with my
(22:04):
husband last night and he goes, you know, our office has always been predominantly
women at all levels because that's, you know, it just worked out that way.
Unfortunately, a lot of spaces aren't that way.
And I mean, as someone who's been in the industry for 20 years on your side
of things, do you think we're moving in a different direction?
(22:25):
It's definitely gotten better. And this is something I hear from a lot of women.
I cover the Women to Watch Awards for Business Insurance. And...
You know, this is something we've talked about too, is sort of the only woman in the room thing.
And, you know, you walk into an insurance conference and it's all, you know,
(22:45):
for lack of a better term, white male and pale or pale male and still no harm to our male listeners.
Okay. Absolutely not. Because you know what, I've met everybody on all sides of it But it is what it is.
And, you know, after the murder of George Floyd, I really sort of delved into
(23:08):
this topic because the industry is one of the whitest industries.
The insurance industry is.
It just it is what it is. Like, people might not like hearing that. They might not care.
But it is a fact. Like, you know, some of the statistics I saw are like,
you know, there's like 2% of African-American women in leadership positions
(23:30):
in insurance. Like, crazy.
Like, I can't, I have to walk away a lot of times when I look at the statistics
because I'm just, or they're not in high level roles.
You know, women, women of color, forget about it. I don't have them in front
of me, but it's like, yeah, like women in administration, like,
yes, the industry is actually like 49 to 51% women and men at this point.
(23:52):
About 50 of that is
women in administrative positions right the rest
are men in leadership positions and women in
very few board positions very few ceo positions
i mean it made international headlines in 2013
when inga beale became the first ceo of lloyd after 300 and something years
(24:13):
like that was international news like there's a reason for that like you know
and and like i did did a webinar on the diversity and insurance issue after,
you know, George Floyd and one of the panelists, Nina Boone, she's amazing.
She said, you know, she started a internship program at the company she was working for.
(24:35):
And she said the first day she walked in, all she could think was,
does anyone in this company have any daughters?
Because it was just a sea of young white men. And, you know,
her point was the issue is friends and family.
The industry has had this model of, you know, friends.
(24:57):
We recruit our friends. We hire our friends. We promote our friends.
Or we own a family business.
And it's been passed on through generations.
And the sons take over the business if that's the case.
And, you know, that's just how it's been. So it is changing.
I have been encouraged to see how it's changing.
(25:17):
And I think, you know, for everyone's criticisms of 2020 and the buzzword of
DEI and sort of the stuff that goes along with that,
there has been more of an effort, I think, towards promoting women, highlighting women.
However, there needs to still be more. And there are plenty,
(25:38):
plenty, plenty, plenty of companies that are either don't care or they're just
sort of saying it and they're not really doing it.
You know, like one of the other things I heard during that webinar is,
you know, they give people the training, they give women the training,
they give them the, you know, we'll go send you to this and we'll teach you about this.
But then when it actually comes down to promotion or new positions or anything
(26:00):
within the company, it doesn't happen. So it's like, it's not being backed up with action.
No, it's a tough topic. And I think it's a topic that, you know,
we are starting to have and we're having it louder.
I had spoken to somebody on a different matter and, you know,
it was interesting, her whole mindset across any industry, and it wasn't just
(26:22):
insurance, it was about, let's just level the playing field, right?
For all of us. and, you know, let's walk in and all be the same with the skill
level that we bring to the table.
Because, you know, wherever you're from or your gender, your race or whatever
it is, like we all bring such a great new light to, you know,
whatever environment that we're doing.
(26:42):
And those experiences, I think, really build a company and build a good brand.
And so, you know, going back to like when you're hiring in your agencies and
when you're, you know, looking at, you know, involving people in your work,
I mean, really, you know, Bring in the different things that are different than you.
Yeah, yeah, totally. And going back to 2020,
(27:05):
there was also sort of a shift from that demand to be in the office every day
and the unrealistic expectations that are being put on women who work.
And allowing more flexibility and allowing people to have a career and have
a family and understanding that, you know, things don't happen in a vacuum.
(27:29):
Like we have to be able to have both.
We have to be able- Well, people are only accepting it now.
I mean, the employee of today isn't the employee of five years ago.
I mean, going into the office every day, driving in the car every day.
I mean, you and I have talked about this. Using two hours of your life.
Come on. We're so much better doing what we're doing in different ways.
(27:51):
And so I think that reading up, you know, learning all these different things
and these different resources and the work that you're doing to bring them to
life for us to get our hands on is what it's all about.
Amy, I can't say thank you enough for joining us today. We hope that everybody
stays up to speed this week.
Hello, and thank you for joining us at Up to Speed. We have a great show today.
It's Samantha here, your host, and I am excited to bring to you a content producer,
a friend of mine who is a guru in the insurance industry.
She is an award-winning insurance journalist of over 20 years.
Amy O'Connor, how are you today, my girl?
(00:21):
I am good. This is fun. I've never really been on the other side,
and usually I'm the one interviewing you. you.
Indeed, that is how we met back at your insurance journal days.
You did a story on my work with Sparkle and just being an insurance professional.
So we have a long history, you and I together, and I'm excited to see you on the other side.
I want to jump in today and talk about, you know, there's a lot of different
(00:45):
publications and places where we can get information as insurance agents to
help, you know, if we're interested in a new product, service, market, et cetera.
So I wanted to first start off and, you know, have you kind of give us your
opinion on where do we go to get this information?
Because you hit Google and you find yourself in an abyss of a world that you
might not even have any direction to. So what are your insights here?
(01:06):
Well, it's so funny because I've been in journalism and a writer forever since high school.
And then you tell people, you're a journalist and they go, oh,
that's so cool. What do you write about? And then you say, insurance.
And they go, oh. And the conversation stops.
It's not really like a party topic as most people in the insurance would agree.
(01:26):
And it's not one of those things that, you know, most people are out there searching
for looking for the information.
But then, you know, once I got in the industry, and the reason that I still
cover it, write about it, is because it is way more interesting than people realize.
And there is such a void for insurance professionals and really like getting
(01:46):
down to what it is they want to know.
And, you know, once you're in this world, you kind of do You can look around
and you can see there is a lot of information out there, but how do you find what you need?
And how do agents get down to what's going to help them grow their business
and help their clients and do the day-to-day things that they need to do?
(02:07):
And I think there's a lot of publications, like obviously, shout out to Insurance
Journal, my former employer who I'm still working with and very much a huge cheerleader for.
They do a great job covering the agent channel. And that has been the focus
of the publication for actually they just had their 100 year anniversary last year. Wow.
Yeah, they started off just covering California and it's grown,
(02:30):
you know, obviously, since then it's a nationwide publication.
But there's lots of other ones. there's PC360, there's Independent Agent,
which is a publication of the big eye.
There's digital insurance, which is obviously more of a technical focus for the industry.
And that is a huge thing now too. Technology has completely changed how agents
(02:54):
are doing business. And that's.
There's a little bit of a pushback in some areas of that, but ultimately,
the industry is embracing technology a lot more than they used to.
And there's just so much out there. It's overwhelming.
Yeah. And when I was a reporter and editor, I used to get just pitches constantly
(03:16):
about technology products and vendors and portals and all these things.
And I'm like, how on earth, if you were an agent, would you even know where to start with this?
Like, so, you know, I think for agents, it's really a matter of like figuring
out what is important to you and finding out where you get that information.
And also, you know, the associations are great for that. The big I is great for that.
(03:40):
The triple I is great for that. Your state associations have so much information.
You know, the independent agent association is a huge, huge group.
We have the agents alliance down south, you know, and they're all over California too.
I think a lot of times it's, you know, when you you're a part of these groups
or you're, you know, members, these different associations,
(04:00):
a lot of times it's like you just you need to kind of take the time and understand
where you can go and get the data, because there is so many interesting topics
and things that, you know, you've spent years writing about. out.
But it's almost like, I know I'm guilty as charged.
If I have a topic that comes across my desk and I'm like, I don't know what
that means, I'll Google it.
And I mean, whoa, more times than not, I find myself very overwhelmed real quickly.
(04:25):
Yeah. Yeah. No, completely. And you know, another resource actually that I've
found more recently in the last couple of years that has been really good is LinkedIn.
Following agent groups, following professionals who focus on certain areas of coverage,
following publications and sort of getting their, you know, either their daily
(04:47):
headlines or their weekly top stories or their, you know, Insurance Journal
has a research and trends section that has a lot of information.
And another thing that has become really big too,
as I'm sure you know, because we're sort of doing it right now is webinars and
those conversations, listening to those conversations and getting that information
(05:07):
like in a much more interactive and interesting way than just reading it.
And, you know, the other thing that is funny in sort of what I've been doing is,
Insurance agents are not always great. And this is not, you know,
not meant to be a criticism,
but they aren't always great at sort of getting their own points across and
(05:29):
keeping information in or presenting information in a way that is clear.
So, you know, that's sort of what my job has been over the years and something
that, you know, has sort of kept me going is helping them do that,
helping them break things down,
because you need it to be clear and understandable if you want to engage with people.
(05:51):
And so that's sort of another thing that is good about a lot of the different
resources is that they try to present things in a way that is understandable.
Understandable well i also feel like a lot of these publications
there's a little bit more validity to the storyline because anybody
could put whatever they want online and as you know you
know when you google anything you know you're googling you have
(06:11):
a sore throat and the next thing you know you're dying according to someone
in georgia right who may be just a homeopathic practitioner you know so with
the same thing goes for insurance when you're googling you see a lot of different
lawyers and a lot of different people having their thoughts and feelings so
i feel feel when I'm looking for coverage or, you know, consult in these different areas,
I will tend to gear towards more of a, you know, existing or publication that
(06:35):
I know has been around for a while because I feel like the source is probably
going to be a little bit more legit.
Yeah. Well, and as a journalist or, you know, whatever I am at this point,
you know, one of my favorite sayings has always been like going straight to the horse's mouth.
Like you need to hear it from those people. Like, there's a lot of things that
get said in every medium in the world.
(06:57):
And if you didn't get it from the source, from the actual, you know, legitimate source.
Place, how do you know what you're hearing or reading is true?
And believe it or not, there's been a lot of instances in insurance where things
get put out there and so-and-so is going to stop writing this business or this
company is exiting this market or rates are going up, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
(07:21):
And it's like, okay, but it's irresponsible to put that information out there
unless you know that it's true. Yeah, for sure.
So one thing that you had mentioned when we were chatting was something that
you just worked on about the hard market. it.
I'd love to hear a little bit about that because that is such a topic on agents.
And I don't care where you are, what state you are. We are in it right now across
(07:41):
the board. Oh, especially in California.
Yeah. I mean, I keep seeing these, you know, no one cares about insurance until
they need it or they can't get it.
And suddenly everyone's like, I can't get my homeowner's insurance renewed.
I can't get my business insurance. Why did my rates go up 30 to 40 to 50%?
Like, you know, it's crazy.
And like you thankfully, or that you very kindly Strangely mentioned,
(08:03):
I've been covering the industry for almost 20 years, which, you know, whatever.
It is what it is. But when I started, I used to talk to agents all the time
and they would tell me about, you know, we're in a soft market cycle.
We're in a soft market cycle. The hard market's coming.
And I didn't really understand what that meant. I didn't really know what a hard market was.
(08:24):
And now this is the first so many agents.
This is the first time they have ever seen a hard market. They,
you know, things were good for a very, very, very long time.
And suddenly it changed and people can't, you know, they can't find carriers.
They can't help their clients. Their clients are mad.
(08:45):
Their clients are leaving them. Their clients are dropping coverages that they
probably shouldn't be dropping. shopping, the agents are frustrated,
the agents are, you know, concerned.
And so one of the things with one of the companies I've been working with are
trying, you know, we put together help put together for the big guy, a hard market toolkit.
And so one of the things we did with that is we actually went and talked to
(09:08):
real agents who've been in the business for, you know, 20 to 30 years,
this is not their first hard market, they've been through this before,
they've seen this before.
And And we asked them, what is your advice? How do you get through this?
And what would you tell young agents who haven't seen this before and are maybe
feeling frustrated and like, I'm over it. Everyone said insurance would be a great business.
(09:30):
Not working out for me. So they had some really awesome advice.
And so if you're an agent who is a big I member, you can go on the website and
you can download the Hard Market Toolkit.
We also did a survey with it that, you know, sort of asked their members,
like, you know, like those kinds of questions, like, what are you doing?
(09:51):
And what are you seeing? Like, are clients leaving? Are you having to market
new business more? Are you focusing on retention?
Like, and sort of getting a sense of what's happening?
I don't think the clients are leaving. I mean, the clients have no choice.
And so, I mean, every conversation, for the most part, is a challenging conversation.
I mean, rates are up or it's, you know, what was once available is no longer.
(10:13):
But I think across, it's not like it's just one area of the industry.
I mean, everybody's struggling.
All lines, all lines are up and especially property. It's brutal right now.
Property is, yeah, property.
But I am hearing that, you know, there is starting to be some signs of life
in like professional liability lines and like cyber actually is easing up a little bit,
(10:36):
which I'm sure you know that was getting really hard after so many ransomware
attacks and companies were kind of like,
whoa, maybe we were offering too high limits there.
Maybe we shouldn't have been providing ransomware coverage.
Maybe our million dollar limit for $1,200 wasn't the best idea, carrier A, B, and C.
But it is true.
(10:57):
Some of the markets are easing up a bit with different lines.
The wildfire you know the water you know these
these areas are still suffering but it's
interesting so when i started in the industry it was the hardest of
markets i mean there was like one carrier that
was writing apartment buildings and that was it and after 9-11 yeah that was
(11:17):
20 that was 2005 2004 through 4-3 2003 i mean it was that hard market from you
know from what i've heard is sort of started after 9-11 and then lasted through,
I guess, like the housing crisis.
Yeah. I mean, I think until 2008-9, it was pretty gnarly.
And then for years, it was like, I mean, you were seeing carriers writing- Free-for-all.
(11:40):
I mean, it was like, you're charging what?
And you knew it was going to bite them. And then it kind of did in a big way across the board.
And so it's great that there's some insight to help younger agents realize like,
hey, this is just a big wheel, right? It is a big wheel. It's churning.
And hopefully the cycle will end up in our favor.
(12:00):
And the other important part about that is one of the big points we took away
from the Hard Market Toolkit was like, now is your time to shine.
Now is your time to show your clients why you are there, why they need an agent.
Because, you know, calling up an 800 number.
When you're in a real situation like that, you're not going to get the same
(12:23):
kind of help that you need with the person you've been working for for the last
five years, who knows you, who knows your loss history, who knows the risk mitigation
and risk management tactics that you use,
who can go to bat for you and has those relationships with the carriers and
is willing to say, you know, like, I will vouch for this client.
Like, you know, what you quoted is too high and we can work on that.
(12:46):
Like, or tell us, tell me what to tell them, what they need to do so we can
get the premium at a better price.
Like, you know, that those kinds of things like and I agree.
And I think, too, it's a great time to really hone in on your craft and learn
and get better at the things that bring you joy that, you know,
you're good at and that you can connect with your markets as a producer. producer.
(13:09):
But it is, you know, it is, there are days where you're just like,
what have I, what am I doing?
What, why is everything so hard? The thing that I find interesting,
and I wonder if this was in your findings when you were interviewing,
was that the carriers are so difficult to work with.
I mean, it used to be that the underwriters were excited about writing business.
You know, you would send an email to the carrier or, you know,
(13:31):
an underwriter, and you'd hear back.
I mean, now it's two, three weeks, and I'm like, are you in Bora Bora Laura
under a rock, you know, or someone not watching your day. No,
I'm just, we're just slammed.
They're slammed. Yeah. That was one of the things we included in the toolkit was a timeline.
So it was like, you know, the 30 day window of, of starting the renewal process.
(13:52):
That's not happening right now. You have to go 90, even 120 days on some accounts,
like, which is crazy. Not even know.
Yeah. They may not even know what the rates are going to be at the carriers.
They may not even know if they're writing that, but you've got to start like
laying the foundation so that when that renewal comes up, either you know,
okay, we're not getting it with this carrier anymore,
(14:12):
or you're prepared to talk to your client and be like, look.
Things are shifting around, which is crazy though, because then the other thing
is you get it on somebody's desk 180 days before, and then it sits on there
and it's two weeks before renewal and you still don't have terms.
I mean, that's the story we hear all the time and it's hard.
And so I think I think a lot of it has to be, you know,
(14:33):
what is the expectation of the carriers to the agents and the agents need to
have the expectations of what the carriers need from us to be able to do their job.
And, you know, maybe it was a little too easy for everybody for a while.
Yeah. And ultimately, I'm sure you've heard this a million times,
insurance is a relationship business.
So even if, you know, you're not getting that call back right away,
(14:55):
or the people who used to talk to you you aren't answering the phone.
Like it's not going to be like this forever. That was one of the great quotes
is like this. It's not going to stay like this forever.
And you don't want to burn those bridges when it's like this.
And then when things change, you're like.
They don't want to work with you. So it's, it's important to sort of like,
(15:17):
you know, you got to ride the wave, like everything, right? In life.
It's like, well, in real life, everybody's going through it.
So it's not just you, it's not just, you know, your, you know,
area it's across the nation and even like internationally.
I mean, everybody's feeling it across, across the globe.
So we're all in the same boat and, you know, it's interesting because different
industries have their waves.
(15:38):
So real estate, you know, had their hits, It's bankings had their hits.
Medicines had it. And now it's our turn. So we just got to go through it.
Right. And at the end of the day, everyone needs insurance.
Everyone needs insurance. It's a stable industry. Yeah.
It's one of those things, like I said, when I started covering the industry,
it's like you suddenly look around and you're like, huh, I wonder how they got that insured.
(16:03):
Or I wonder what that policy is. is like, you know, that whole insurance nerd thing.
You're like, oh my God, that's... I am an, yeah, that's me. Hey. Well, I know you are.
Hey there. I don't look like it, but yeah, I definitely nerd out a lot with
insurance and a lot of my friends, as you, like we all can nerd out real quickly about insurance.
(16:23):
So something I find fascinating about you is that you've done so much reporting
on different, you know, facets of the industry.
So what's the most funkiest thing or like the craziest jaw-dropping thing that
you've ever reported on where you're just like, this is bananas?
I mean, there's been, it's honestly, it's probably, it's hard to say one.
There's been some like scandal things. Like I covered an attorney in Florida
(16:48):
who, I mean, if you're not familiar, most people are at this point,
but the litigation problem in Florida is so huge.
And I got a tip one time about this attorney who was going to get in trouble
for filing more than 10,000 lawsuits against property insurance companies.
And he ended up eventually getting disbarred. But, you know,
(17:09):
that was one of, like, Insurance Journal, we broke that story.
And it was just like, I had people, you know, it was, it was sad,
but I, in the end, I'm glad that I was able to cover it because I started getting
phone calls from, from people who were actually victims asking me,
like, you know, I found this story, this lawyer has,
you know, abandoned me, and my mom has had a tarp on her roof for,
(17:35):
two years and I can't get anyone to help me.
And they saw your story and you're like, oh, wow. Okay.
Like, you know, it, so that's kind of stuff that's been crazy.
And then, you know, other things like.
I covered like some Google stories, like when Google started doing some auto
insurance many years ago.
(17:56):
And another really fun one I
did one time was winery, like going to actually went to a winery in Napa.
And we saw, you know, all the way things work. We met with their broker, talked to them.
And that was just like a really cool sort of like how it all works together kind of thing.
And same actually did that with the Anaheim Ducks Stadium.
We talked to their risk risk manager and, you know, that kind of thing.
(18:21):
I mean, there's some other crazier things that probably are not safe for work.
So I feel like there's probably a little bit of those that could be an EPLI problem.
It is interesting, though, when you do unpeel the layers of different industries
and how the insurance, you know, what what applies to those industries?
What are the things that help make them tick? What are their exposures?
(18:44):
Because, you know, when you look at somebody like the Anaheim or the hockey
team, I mean, that's an impressive structure. And I could, I mean,
I wouldn't even know where to begin.
I mean, I could think about a few things. They have to work so closely with
their risk managers because otherwise they can't get coverage even if they're
self-insuring, you know, it's a huge undertaking.
(19:06):
Same with like cannabis. Like that's a big subject that I started covering when
I first started, you know, Writing about insurance, that has now become huge.
Yeah. And insurance is another huge portion of that.
Banks won't have... They can't get loans a lot of times because it's federally illegal.
They can't get what they need for properties like leasing and renting.
(19:31):
No one's going to rent to them if they don't have insurance.
We had some clients, right?
I mean, because we're San Francisco based. So we had some clients right when
it was coming out and it was cool in San Francisco, go and it wasn't cool everywhere else.
And no carrier would touch them, you know, with a 10 foot pole.
I mean, it was hard. I mean, you had to, you had to, you know,
if it wasn't asking the questions, but you knew you needed to disclose it.
(19:53):
So you were like, okay, is this medicinal? Is this recreational?
And now it's a whole industry that's been like fully fascinating.
Yeah. Yeah. And I covered the Southeast for six years and,
you know, being from California, it was so interesting
to me there was like no medical marijuana there
there was nobody it was illegal in so many states
(20:14):
still and that's really changed like it
is a huge industry like and then there's like you know the people working in
insurance who their clients are real business owners and they feel so passionate
about helping them and making sure they get the coverage they need and helping
carriers understand like these are the security measures they are taking this
(20:35):
This is how they store money.
Like this is how much cash they keep on hand.
So, you know, if they get robbed, it's like.
Not as big of a deal, I guess. I don't know. I would always say the best clients
were always like a little bit of the shade, the shadier businesses, right?
The, the bars, the gentlemen's clubs, the cannabis stores, they always pay cash and they always pay.
(20:59):
No, it was always, it was always funny when I was, you know,
and they know how to keep, take care of it. You know, like they're not messing around.
They don't want to lose their business. It's too profitable. And they're booming.
They're always doing well. Yeah, I know. It's crazy.
It is interesting. And it's definitely like, I think it's such a wild,
(21:20):
wild west, you know, with cannabis and even with a lot of tech and a lot of
different, I mean, you're going to see things, you know, ebb and flow as they
kind of come into the environment.
And so it's interesting to watch, I'm sure from your seat, because you get to
cover them and you get to interview and, you know, get to know these different individuals.
Something else that I love a lot about what you do is you work a lot and understand
(21:43):
a lot about women in the industry and that DEI component that we're always looking
for the diversity, the equity, and the inclusion. And it's a big word.
Sometimes I feel like it's almost like a little bit of a buzzword,
like a box a lot of these places are checking because they're supposed to.
Are they implementing it? I don't know. I was having a conversation with my
(22:04):
husband last night and he goes, you know, our office has always been predominantly
women at all levels because that's, you know, it just worked out that way.
Unfortunately, a lot of spaces aren't that way.
And I mean, as someone who's been in the industry for 20 years on your side
of things, do you think we're moving in a different direction?
(22:25):
It's definitely gotten better. And this is something I hear from a lot of women.
I cover the Women to Watch Awards for Business Insurance. And...
You know, this is something we've talked about too, is sort of the only woman in the room thing.
And, you know, you walk into an insurance conference and it's all, you know,
(22:45):
for lack of a better term, white male and pale or pale male and still no harm to our male listeners.
Okay. Absolutely not. Because you know what, I've met everybody on all sides of it But it is what it is.
And, you know, after the murder of George Floyd, I really sort of delved into
(23:08):
this topic because the industry is one of the whitest industries.
The insurance industry is.
It just it is what it is. Like, people might not like hearing that. They might not care.
But it is a fact. Like, you know, some of the statistics I saw are like,
you know, there's like 2% of African-American women in leadership positions
(23:30):
in insurance. Like, crazy.
Like, I can't, I have to walk away a lot of times when I look at the statistics
because I'm just, or they're not in high level roles.
You know, women, women of color, forget about it. I don't have them in front
of me, but it's like, yeah, like women in administration, like,
yes, the industry is actually like 49 to 51% women and men at this point.
(23:52):
About 50 of that is
women in administrative positions right the rest
are men in leadership positions and women in
very few board positions very few ceo positions
i mean it made international headlines in 2013
when inga beale became the first ceo of lloyd after 300 and something years
(24:13):
like that was international news like there's a reason for that like you know
and and like i did did a webinar on the diversity and insurance issue after,
you know, George Floyd and one of the panelists, Nina Boone, she's amazing.
She said, you know, she started a internship program at the company she was working for.
(24:35):
And she said the first day she walked in, all she could think was,
does anyone in this company have any daughters?
Because it was just a sea of young white men. And, you know,
her point was the issue is friends and family.
The industry has had this model of, you know, friends.
(24:57):
We recruit our friends. We hire our friends. We promote our friends.
Or we own a family business.
And it's been passed on through generations.
And the sons take over the business if that's the case.
And, you know, that's just how it's been. So it is changing.
I have been encouraged to see how it's changing.
(25:17):
And I think, you know, for everyone's criticisms of 2020 and the buzzword of
DEI and sort of the stuff that goes along with that,
there has been more of an effort, I think, towards promoting women, highlighting women.
However, there needs to still be more. And there are plenty,
(25:38):
plenty, plenty, plenty of companies that are either don't care or they're just
sort of saying it and they're not really doing it.
You know, like one of the other things I heard during that webinar is,
you know, they give people the training, they give women the training,
they give them the, you know, we'll go send you to this and we'll teach you about this.
But then when it actually comes down to promotion or new positions or anything
(26:00):
within the company, it doesn't happen. So it's like, it's not being backed up with action.
No, it's a tough topic. And I think it's a topic that, you know,
we are starting to have and we're having it louder.
I had spoken to somebody on a different matter and, you know,
it was interesting, her whole mindset across any industry, and it wasn't just
(26:22):
insurance, it was about, let's just level the playing field, right?
For all of us. and, you know, let's walk in and all be the same with the skill
level that we bring to the table.
Because, you know, wherever you're from or your gender, your race or whatever
it is, like we all bring such a great new light to, you know,
whatever environment that we're doing.
(26:42):
And those experiences, I think, really build a company and build a good brand.
And so, you know, going back to like when you're hiring in your agencies and
when you're, you know, looking at, you know, involving people in your work,
I mean, really, you know, Bring in the different things that are different than you.
Yeah, yeah, totally. And going back to 2020,
(27:05):
there was also sort of a shift from that demand to be in the office every day
and the unrealistic expectations that are being put on women who work.
And allowing more flexibility and allowing people to have a career and have
a family and understanding that, you know, things don't happen in a vacuum.
(27:29):
Like we have to be able to have both.
We have to be able- Well, people are only accepting it now.
I mean, the employee of today isn't the employee of five years ago.
I mean, going into the office every day, driving in the car every day.
I mean, you and I have talked about this. Using two hours of your life.
Come on. We're so much better doing what we're doing in different ways.
(27:51):
And so I think that reading up, you know, learning all these different things
and these different resources and the work that you're doing to bring them to
life for us to get our hands on is what it's all about.
Amy, I can't say thank you enough for joining us today. We hope that everybody
stays up to speed this week.
Popular Podcasts
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.