Dicko & The Kit Man

Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Welcome to the latest episode of the upfront and unfiltered
podcast i'm your host dean turton and this week i am joined by fc island man's
director of football operations lee dixon and the man who folds the kits for
them craig cowan lee craig how are you boys great thanks dean good with you
good nice to hear from you and thank you for taking the time out to come and join me tonight lads,

(00:27):
i'll start this like i do with everyone i've got two guests on for the first
time so dicko we'll start with you how does manx football how do you get into football,
i was i was really late into football um i didn't start playing football until
i was about nine which at the time that was that was late your time and i fell
out of it by accident i will never forget one of my one of my best friends dean

(00:49):
adams was going to gyms training it was was gyms had just started,
I think it was an under-12s team,
and him and a few of the other lads who I hung around with were going,
and I had an interest, and then I asked, could I go?
I had no interest in football, really, but I went along on a Friday night to
the old Balochamine gym.
I had one of the little sports halls we had training in, and we were training

(01:10):
with a load of under-14s lads as well.
I think I was nine, and I can remember a few of the lads who were in that.
I think there was people like Gary...
Just that thing, let me just say, Atty Halsell, Atty Halsell was one of them.
There was Gary Yates was one.
I think Atty Halsell had a brother as well. I remember being,
I must remember being very young with a load of lads who had hairy legs and

(01:31):
thinking this, I don't think this is going to be for me.
And I went along to it and I started and we had games the following week.
We had friendly games against, it might have been Union Mills under 12s and I was only nine.
And I remember scoring two or three goals in it and going away thinking I'm okay at this.
I can actually do it I think most of the time I
was running around in fear of being tackled because the lads were

(01:53):
so much bigger than us and it just went from there that I think I played maybe
two or three games for gyms under 12s at that point and then my uncle is Moe
Powsland and they just started that summer they started Pull Those Wanderers
up they just started it with a load of lads with basic plain t-shirts started from scratch.
I was down around Pull Those that's where I grew up and I was brought up around

(02:15):
and I went to Pull Those Wanderers and I never ever went back to gyms and the
rest was history in terms of kids football.
I spent the whole of my youth football and then right up to 16 years old playing
for Polaroids Wanderers that then turned into being Polaroids United because
they adopted them sort of thing. Yeah. And it all became one club.
And I went through, saw my kids football.
I went on trials when I was 12 to Leeds United who'd just won the championship, the first division.

(02:39):
Yeah, the old first division. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the old first division.
I went there on trial and they asked me to sign straight after I come back off trial.
And then from there, I went to various clubs on trials. I went to Stockport County.
I went to Carlisle United, various clubs ringing to offer me to go.
And to be quite honest with you, at the time, there was a fella called Michael
Knight, and everyone might remember, who was tried by Manchester United and

(03:01):
went on the pitch juggling the ball in 1986.
He'd bought Carlisle at the time, and he was a right character.
I went over there and he said at the time, anyone in the Borders,
if the kids come here, we'll make sure they get to play in our first team.
If they're good enough, that's what we're going to build the club on.
And I signed that. I loved it. It was just, it was insane club.
I was staying in a hostel with 15 lads.

(03:22):
Some of them were first team players and everyone went out together at nights
to go temping, bowling or for food or swimming up the local health spa,
which we had a sponsorship thing with.
And I just loved everything about the club. And I never, ever went back to Leeds.
And I got offered a contract off all three clubs
and I chose Carlisle I went there and it was
amazing really they had a whole micro community feel like

(03:44):
the Isle of Man did is that what is that what sort of
swung it for you a little bit yeah Leeds obviously a massive
city big town big club Leeds grew in number really when you
went there a lot of talented kids and I never ever felt
out of place there at all but Carlisle was different the people
there just made you feel welcome they'd feel like you were wanted there
and I went there and it was like it was just a great environment to

(04:04):
be in and Michael Knight was true to his word because the youth
set up at Carlisle was probably at that time as good as any in the
country in terms of the turnover of players I think we ended up we had five
out of the youth teams I played in I think we had five or six international
players come out of that I think there was about five or six played in the Premier
League so it was a phenomenal achievement really for such a small club and one
that's disconnected from the rest of the country really in terms of the location,

(04:27):
and it's brilliant I just had a great time there and it got me like the coaching
side of it and everything I got into when I was there because of the management
team we had I had my manager, Mick Wadsworth, went on to be Bobby Robson's assistant
for six years at Newcastle.
Mervyn Day, the old West Ham goalkeeper, he ended up being Alan Kirbishley's
assistant at Charlton. So we clearly had very good people in that environment.
And I got a massive interest in coaching, even at 17, 18, 19.

(04:51):
I'd already started doing my badges and stuff. And then I returned to the Alleman. I think I was 20.
I have to travel around a little bit to some clubs.
Come back here when I was about 20, played for St.
Mary's in a fantastic team brilliant amazing team we won the Grand Slam that
year I think it was the we were the next ones after Jim's to do it Sam Kenny was the manager and.

(05:12):
Just a great group of lads. And I love being back in that environment.
And it was playing for the Isle of Man in the festival.
So the old steam packet festival against the pro teams, which I loved having that challenge again.
And then obviously from there on in on my career, just I went back to Polly
for a bit and then back to St.
Mary's all the time. Sort of being involved in running the Centre of Excellence
on the Isle of Man and helping young kids go away.

(05:34):
So we had, I think we had 13 or 14. We counted up and we got away on apprenticeships,
which is phenomenal really, again, from the Isle of Man.
But it was nice it was nice from my perspective to be able to give something
back to the Isle of Man like I'd had from people who put their time into me
and I had a massive thing about coaching me I loved it it was,
become a massive part of my life and throughout that process I was going backwards

(05:56):
and forwards to Manchester City and doing stuff over there with them and we
were bringing their youth teams to the Isle of Man we were talking about this
week me and Craig we used to bring the youth teams to the Isle of Man people
like Ada Manua was in the under 12s at the time so they were visiting and then And then from there,
it just progressed on. I obviously stopped playing.
Played for the Alleman until I was 30.

(06:16):
And then I retired really early, Dean. Really early, really.
I mean, I could have gone on for a lot longer, but I just lost my love for what
I was doing in terms of playing.
And I had such an interest in coaching. Like, I had something to just jump straight
into. And I jumped into it.
What I'll do is I'll stop you there just for a second before we move on to the coaching side of it.
Because there's a great question that ties in with all this.

(06:37):
And it comes from Dave Matheson from D&D. Big FC Isle of Man fan, you know, Dave.
And he said, he said, you played in the Steerpacker Festival against likes like
Watford, Stoke, Rotherham, Blackpool, Wrexham and Oldham in the 90s and early noughties.
Like, what are your favourite memories of that festival? And who were the toughest
players you played against in them?

(06:59):
Yeah, it was a great question. Great memories from it, because obviously you
were back, I was back from my perspective, competing against professional players
that you wanted to challenge yourself against. Kingston.
There was a lot of good players come over. We actually played against Roberto
Martinez come over for Wigan and I marked him down at Ramsey. He was phenomenal.
They had three Spanish fans playing and they were unbelievable.

(07:19):
They were so far ahead of everything that was at the tournament. It was frightening.
But Stoke had some really good players playing for them, to be fair,
as well. Lads that went on and played in the Premier League.
Obviously, the fondest memory has to be beating Burnley 1-0 on the bowl.
That's what he says. That's obviously going to go down as a historical thing
that that would probably never be surpassed in terms of football on the All-American,
like a team of players beating a championship team.

(07:41):
Because at the time, I think they were about fifth or sixth in the championship.
He said, like Dave adds that on his thing, he said they finished seventh that season. That season.
So yeah, they weren't just a run-of-the-mill championship team. They were a good one.
And Stan Turnham was their manager and we beat them on the All-American one.
Neil, Kevin Garvey scored.
Kevin, I think it was second in. Kevin, I'm going to say Garvey,
but it isn't Garvey. I'm getting it mixed up just because obviously we've now

(08:03):
got Teenan and that, but it was...
But Kevin, anyway, he was only 17, 18 and he'd just come on the pitch and the first thing he did,
he broke the offside trap and went through the middle one-on-one with the keeper
and he actually drew the keeper out of the edge of his box and he actually done
a step over and put the keeper on his backside and walked round him into the
empty goal. It was unbelievable.
I'll never, ever forget thinking, how's he just done that with that amount of pressure?

(08:25):
And we just hung on. We hung on to the end, but to beat a team like that and
then literally, I think it was a month into the season,
Stan Turner got the sack and he actually wrote in his autobiography,
because I've read it, he wrote in his autobiography that he got the
sack because he got beat by the Alleman and he says a poxy little
island full of alcoholics got me the sack he actually said it
it was obviously funny funny to read
that at the time yeah it is and ultimately that is what it sort of culminated

(08:48):
in so yeah it was brilliant memories just competing against them pros again
it was brilliant you know what I mean they had a guy called I think it was Kevin
Blake who played for Burnley up front on another year they'd come over and he
went on he played in the Premier League he was a Premier League player
they had a couple of Norwegians that come over and Icelandics for Stoke.
You always see it would be loaded with them kind of players, Stoke.

(09:09):
And so, yeah, just brilliant memories. But one of my things was,
obviously, when I come back to play, I'd played in the youth team at Carlisle
and we played against lads like Steven Gerrard and Carragher and Owen and that.
So coming up against lads we were, weirdly at that time, the lads we had played
against, me and Paul Jones in the old league, Lancashire League we played in, in the youth cup.
Them lads were going on and getting into the Premier League and becoming big

(09:32):
news at the time when we were back playing in the festival.
Festival so that surpassed what we were playing against on the Isle of Man with
no disrespect in these plays in terms of what they went on and achieved it was
sensational that's natural isn't it you know you're coming up against lads that have,
battled against and this is again nothing against people on the Isle of Man
on the Isle of Man you're probably playing against 60-70 people to be in that
best team on the Isle of Man they're playing against 3-4 thousand people to

(09:55):
be in that squad aren't they and they're getting
bored for millions at the time I think that Blake was signed for about 1.7 million
which was a fortune at the time,
But yeah, there was a lot of good players coming, like old pros that come over,
like Steve McMahon, who was the manager of Blackpillar when he came in that.
So there was a lot of big names that come in and around the festival over the years.
And it was just a great experience. And it's sad that obviously it's not here anymore, really.

(10:18):
It'd be something great if we could get it back at some point.
It'd be really, really hard to try and get it back going again to that level.
But I do believe that we could potentially get one of the, like a non-league format going again.
Yeah. Maybe, because I don't think getting to pros now is so much harder with
HR departments and insurance issues. Yeah, and travel.
Yeah, I believe we can get something similar that will replicate it in terms

(10:40):
of the amount of people we can bring to the island to watch it.
And put money into the economy. But in terms of the quality of getting up to
that level again, I think it would be really hard to get it going.
But even then, you talk National League there, that sort of level coming in,
I've been fortunate enough this season to go and watch a couple of National League games.
I've been to Dorkin a couple of times because I've been in London and I've watched

(11:02):
them play Ebbs Fleet and who was the other one they played?
Oldham, it was. And I watched them play both of them and they're at that level.
And I think I watch FC Isle of Man most weeks when they're at home.
Do you know what this could challenge them a little bit but it might do them
well and you know people on the Isle of Man we've all got contacts haven't we
everyone knows someone like I know Altrincham for example Lawrence Looney is

(11:24):
there big D&D fellow wasn't he back in the day you know,
it's part of the Isle of Man latest obviously pre-season they come in and it's
definitely the prospect of bringing lads maybe in from that level I think we
can attract people from that level but I think once you get into the football
league the scene changes a little bit in terms of requirements from their part
what they need and it'll just get more and more difficult,

(11:45):
I think, as the years go on to get that going again in terms of,
like I said, the finances as well, isn't it? You know what?
Listen, to me, it's about bringing the fans in as well. It's not just about
bringing big teams in that don't travel with any numbers.
If we can bring in lines from maybe in and around our spaces and we get in.
If they can bring five, six, 700 fans like Bury do in the season when they travel,

(12:05):
that's a win for the Alleman, I think. It's massive.
But you think if you're bringing three or four teams over with 500 fans each,
that's 2,000 people in it. Whether you put money in, it's a fortune.
You could easily fill the bowl at one. So before we get onto your coaching side
of that, Dicko, Craig, what about you? How do you get into football?
Just as a kid growing up in Pulley.

(12:26):
Playing in the street or up on the field, behind where I'm playing,
which is now just a big field, to pull his pitch.
Yeah. Just played on there, and had the likes of Mo Panslund, Graham Moore.
Freddie Yellen, they sort of tutored us as kids, so it would be like myself,
Darren Dooley, Anthony Moore, James Moore, Danny Roberts, Liam Doyle,

(12:46):
a little bit younger than me, but he was always in and around Pauly as well,
because I can stab to him a little bit now and again,
and he had just played as a kid around Pauly, and the likes of Graham and then
what? Like, give us something to know that.
Yeah, and then obviously signed for Pauley, played for Pauley as a kid and got through that.
Yeah, and Will's played for Geordie's I think it was on the 15s but it was only

(13:07):
a B team to be fair because they had the father who played for the United of
Ireland Harrison Paul Ware and,
he had to do this and then when senior football started I played for some areas
but tried to but my football abilities are like the arrogance of Ronaldo and the,
inability of a a fucking wooden spear so well you've said it Craig I don't need

(13:28):
to say any more do I mate that being said though I,
Dean Ray the Samaritan told me when he ran away towards the start of this season
to do a show against Braddon and I was like alright okay I'm done happy as hell
came on after 15 minutes played the rest of the game and I'm up for player of the season mate,
what can I say I've only had three players all season so I pulled a couple of

(13:49):
games off yeah is that what it is or are they just trying to put you up for
next season and a few community tickets from FC Isle of Man as they get you in that way, yeah. No.
So, right, that, Craig, that's it. He actually called Craig the wand.
The wand. And his left foot's not bad as well.
One of them, is it? But, yeah, no, that's fair enough. So, Dick, I'll go back to you.

(14:11):
You've left playing early 30s. You've started coaching. What happens there?
So I went in, I went down to, I actually went down to St. John's for two years.
Yeah. I went down, they asked me to go.
I had a remit, what they wanted. They had a group of under-16s that I'd worked
with, with the Centre of Excellence for two or three years.
And they were really, really keen on trying to keep them all together,

(14:33):
the under-16s, as they come up into senior football.
So the remit was, when I went there, was to try and sort of like build them
into senior football, get promoted to the first division and try and see how
far they could get as a group of players.
And so I went down there Sam Kenny come with me who was my best friend and he
come down as like assistant manager but we were like joint managers,

(14:54):
and I was still doing a bit of playing Sam was still doing a bit of playing
as well he was phenomenal to be honest with you didn't age just didn't seem to catch up with Sam
and we went down there and to be honest with you it probably started too well
looking back we got promoted in the first season we got out of the league with
a load of kids playing for us the group that he wanted us to do it with,
Nick Nick and Brian and them who'd asked us to use.

(15:18):
And we went up too quick. We arrived in the first division. That summer we lost
four or five of our best players.
Well, Anthony Moore went off to America. He was unbelievable.
Anthony at the time was becoming one of the best players on the Alleman in his
own right. And he's only 17.
Mikey Pearson, Wolfie, Mark Wolfenden, who'd scored between them,
I think, 70 or 80 goals the season before, both stopped playing.

(15:39):
Mikey went off travelling the world.
Wolfie had issues with his back, so he stopped. stopped and then two
or three others went fell by the wayside because they found alcohol
women and all that at the weekend and we went into
the next season and to be honest we probably weren't as strong the following year
as what we had been the year before in the second division and we really struggled
it was a struggle playing with kids at that point then I started realizing that

(16:01):
we got promoted too quick we'd have been better off having a consolidation year
with them yeah then getting promoted and then being in a better spot so anyway
it all it ended down there and they sort of got where they said,
listen, we want to go our own way, which was absolutely fine.
I come out of it with about four weeks to go of the second season.
And then I bumped into Bassie up at the grandstand behind, it was on senior race day.

(16:23):
I bumped into him. I was with Frank Harrison and a few others.
And I bumped into Bassie and he said, listen, what's the chances you come down
and work with me at Geordie's? Like, I want to get you in.
The lads are going on about, you know, you'd be the next, the best thing to
bring in to add to what we already had.
I'm really keen to come down. And I was really clear. I said,
I'll come to a training session, But if they don't want what I want and what
I demand of them, then I won't be there because it won't work.

(16:46):
And I'd done one training session
down on Nobles Park and Chris got all running, did all what we had to do.
I put a football session on and he just said, what do you think?
And I asked a few of the senior players who I'd heard were leaving,
were they staying or going?
And they said, if you come, I'll stay. And if you're not, I'm off.
So I went there and the rest is sort of pretty much history, really.

(17:06):
It was like, got with Chris and over time we blended together together our ideas
about what I thought was right and what he thought was right.
We probably both learned quite a bit off each other.
And we sort of become quite formidable, I think, in Manx football.
They sort of were formidable anyway, Geordie.
So they were winning two and three trophies a year. And then we got together
and we were winning three and four.
We were either winning a Grand Slam or we were getting a treble every year.

(17:27):
I don't think we ever got, in the nine or ten years I was there,
I don't think we won anything for less than three trophies in a season,
which was, it was brilliant.
It was a great environment to be in. Everyone thought alike.
We all had the same mentality. Everyone just wanted to win. And we did whatever we had to to win.
We didn't just talk about winning. The lads trained two, three nights a week.
We trained in the winters when it was snowing and no one else trained and we

(17:48):
were the most committed bunch everyone talks about the players we had we were
the best trainers we were the fittest we were the most disciplined we were the
best organised we were right across the board and obviously.
From there then it led on into we won a lot on the Allman which is fine and
you know people all say we should have with the players but when Malcolm Blackburn
managed to pull off setting the Mifu up at Ellen Van and it was just unbelievable

(18:10):
the opportunities that he provided us with was like I still we still talk about
it now and pinch ourselves.
We can't actually believe what he managed to do and what he provided for the lads.
We went to that first tournament in Sweden. It was just like,
it was surreal. You had to pinch yourself.
We flew out there on a jet and there was only us on it. It was a massive big jet that flew to Sweden.
And then what happened in that tournament was I think the first sign of what

(18:34):
potential on the Alleman was.
Going throughout the tournament, every team we played was better than us.
Full of professionals from all over Europe. Not playing at the very top end of the game.
There was a couple in the media that played in
Dutch first division and that but they were all professionals from different
leagues and we went right across the board played all these
teams better than us but we were fit we were more organised and

(18:55):
we were more committed than them and we went through the tournament ultimately
we never got beat once in the tournament because we lost obviously on
penalties but that there I think was the first like
signs that the Isle of Man could have something in terms of the
scenes that come back to us from Jack's fans in there singing
people's names having it up on an actual screen it
was like it was a Sunday morning that as well wasn't it it wasn't even like

(19:17):
late on it it was the afternoon and like we were over there like we couldn't
believe it was mad we were over there but we wanted to be over here he was seeing
it going oh my god it would be amazing to be part of that and obviously then
off the back of that Paul has then got this idea about let's set up FCR Le Mans.
And there was Paul Steve Burns and myself initially and then it grew into being
a core group of about eight or nine people pushing to create that club and going

(19:40):
through that process and making it happen and to be honest with you the knock
on now with FC is I think the culmination of what Malcolm managed to start to
do to show there's a different way and open people's minds up to it.
Yeah, and here we are now, and we've got into FC Allemagne. Me and Chris,
again, moved on to FC Allemagne together and had a relatively successful start to the club.

(20:00):
Oh, I percent. And great memories, most of all. Looking back over all of it,
we've had great times, great memories together, and different kinds of teams
with different players who played for us over the years.
Do you know what? It's like bumping into people now from any of them teams,
and that is great to talk about it because they're like like-minded people they
were at the time. We were all pushing for the same thing.
You had one set goal. that everyone in that squad that you developed had it.

(20:24):
And I think it's fair to say that you and Chris are both quite passionate people
when it comes to football as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I wouldn't even say, it's not, it might be perceived
as anger sometimes. It's not, it's passion.
Yeah, we're aggressive. We're aggressive in what we're trying to do.
And anyone in our changing rooms knew what we were like. We've all seen the video.
We've all seen our video. The amazing thing about, I think me and Chris is,

(20:48):
we never fell out of any players ever, ever, ever.
So we were always, you would have it in the changing room or at halftime or
whatever. And the minute it was done, it was done.
And you moved on to the next week and the next week. And like me and Chris speak
all the time and people say, what were your best results or what were your best achievements?
Some of our best results we had were our losses. Yeah. Because that was always
the thing that spurred us on for another two or three years.

(21:08):
We'd lose a cup final. I remember old boys beating us in a quarterfinal down
here in my first year at the club.
And that ultimately spurred us on probably the first two Grand Slams because...
We kept going back to that all the time with the players. Are we going to let this happen again?
Yeah. When they were flagging and if people started winning,
training and all that, that was the thing that used to like be the sting in
the tail to get them back again.
And yeah, and so throughout that, the losses were majorly important to us.

(21:31):
Had we not have got them, I don't know whether we would have been able to carry
on as long as we did, but it only took us to lose one cup in the season and
then we were ready to go again the next year and try to go at it again.
And I think that's what carried us through when we went to Sweden and Hungary
and places like that to these tournaments with Alan Vannon.
And I think the experience we'd built from the players of failing at times and
treating it like it was the end of the world, I think it made us mentally stronger

(21:54):
and a better group together when we were up against it.
When we were coming under the cosh against teams that were far superior, we were.
I think that was our driving factor, really, that used to push us on through.
And we used to speak to the foreign teams and then be saying, like, yous are mad.
Like, why do yous come and try and get the ball off us in our own area?
Like, that's not how we play. But that's what we had to do.

(22:14):
We had to do something that they never done so if they drop
four back to get the ball on the edge of the area we used to mark four and make
them kick it long knowing that they wouldn't beat us in the air because they don't head
of the ball so they'd have like little technical players who were
trying to win headers against Sean Quay or against Seamus Sharkey or against
Liam Doyle or Alex Harrison they're not going to do that because they don't
want to head the ball so we were trying to get them into a mindset of playing

(22:36):
how we wanted them to play and stuff so all their memories and challenges that
we had together are unbelievable and they last our lifetimes like we talk about
it But now the players say to me,
now they get like hairs on the back of the neck when you think back to that week in Sweden.
The first week we went away and the experience that we were lucky enough to have.
And that's come from, you know, early, probably the late 80s,
well, late 80s, early 90s.

(22:59):
People from the Alleman tried it when clubs went and played in the FA Vars,
didn't they? I remember watching all those, you know, I was sat in my clubhouse
now, I remember sitting down there and watching the great team.
I've just showed Craig on one of them photos when they played St.
Dominic's and they had all them replays game day after day. Yeah, yeah.
Unbelievable and that sort of that was the first real
insight in Manx football to getting off the island and playing wasn't it
yeah yeah they set the pressure they're really old boys you've gone on what Malcolm done

(23:22):
there and that was just you know no
one believed Malcolm could do it let's be honest everyone tried to block it and
he wouldn't take no for an answer and he was the most stubborn man
in the world and you know what I've got nothing but respect for him for that what he'd
done because he could have easily have took no as an answer and walked away
but he fought and fought and fought to give us them
experiences and every single player will be
thankful forever ever to Malcolm for what he did it was it

(23:45):
was unbelievable and Manx football should be as well because without that
it's it's it's Manx football as a whole that's grown from it yeah
yeah completely and and that's it so you've obviously
talked about that you've gone into your coaching so we'll
go on to FC Alameda now and how you both got into that Craig I'll start with
you how does coming right how does like getting involved with FC Alameda come
about for you so I was must have been just before COVID as with some areas Al

(24:10):
Harrison involved me onto the committee so So I was helping there and like doing
my training and playing with him short.
And then I just had enough basically after the season. It was a long season.
Like Josh Evans did unbelievable work as well behind the scenes and it just fucking was draining.
So I said like, that's me. Like you can go on without me. Like the club was
here before me. It'll definitely be here after me.

(24:31):
So I did that. Went to the end of season two and then Frank was talking to me
about FC. And I was like, yeah, I'll come support it and watch it and whatnot.
Because I became good friends with like Frank and Jack and Al.
How went Skrill, Val, so I always know him.
I remember I was in the cafe one morning with me, now ex-missus and little one,
having breakfast and Jones is ringing me. I think, what the fuck does he want?

(24:53):
Friday morning. Friday morning, half nine. What's Frank Jones ringing me for?
What are you saying, boy? Give him that one.
And he just asked would I be interested in helping out in some capacity?
And I was like, yeah, of course. No problem. Like it'd be a good venture to go on.
So he got me in touch with Jonesy. Tried to meet Jonesy for a few weeks and
for one reason or another we couldn't meet because we were both busy.
So I booked myself on to go to the first away game.

(25:15):
So I just said to Jones you look like we'll both be on the boat we'll chat then,
went on he said this is what I'd like you to do and I said yeah no problem do that,
and then from that conversation like can I just About 500 kits later Yeah it's
honestly it's it's crazy like from that first conversation like to where we're at now,
obviously there's a amount of arguments Do you think you can rewind creating

(25:37):
that and say no I'm not interested.
Some days you feel like that yeah But other days other
days like you know you lift that trophy when you get promoted and that I know
you've not played but without you they wouldn't have played sort of thing yeah
I don't want to sound like an arsehole but I do feel like I've played my part
behind the scenes you don't sound like an arsehole saying that Craig you're 100% like,

(26:00):
people in Manx football don't understand what goes on behind the scenes half
the time and that's a lot of negligence and some of the stuff you do mate like
they won't see I'm fortunate enough I get to see some of the stuff you do and
you know what I mean they don't and it is a big part that you've played.
Going back to that thing there about Craig being the
kit man and one of the main Joneses spoke about it and then Cosby come out of

(26:22):
the professional game and the kit man in every club is always the centre hub
of the club who ties everyone together and he's funny and he's the ear everyone
goes to if they've got problems and all that and we said it's vitally important that we get it right.
It's got to be someone who's going to be in the changing room environment that'll
fit in with everyone and he rang me Jones and he said, Frank Jones has said

(26:43):
about maybe speaking to Craig Cowan.
And I said, oh, we'd be perfect. If Craig's the perfect kind of character,
he can be that man we were talking about and, you know, that will gel with everyone
and get on with everyone and take the piss out of himself, take the piss out
of others, and it'll be work.
And to be honest with you, I'll say this from the point of view of Craig not
having to blow his own trumpet.
Craig is exactly that person. Craig's the man in the club that everyone knows,

(27:06):
everyone goes to, take the piss out of him, he takes the piss back.
He's ultra efficient. he's always trying to do stuff he's always on top of stuff
he doesn't mess about he doesn't sit on stuff and Craig is as important person
in our club as anybody bar no one and that's,
absolutely true including the manager including the chair lady including anyone
on the committee the board Craig does as much if not more and is as important

(27:29):
in our club as anyone in the club yeah and that's what I'm saying like behind
the scenes a lot of people in Mancadou don't realise what goes on and people like Craig,
are needed to keep clubs going because if you don't have them people,
your club can fall apart very quickly. Yeah, yeah. And we've seen it at a lot
of clubs in men's football.
Like, I'm not, I don't mean that in a derogatory way or a horrible way,

(27:50):
but that's what happens.
So, I'll come back to you, Dicko. You, obviously, things happen.
An FCL man wants to change direction. Yeah. Chris Basco's, you're part of Chris's
coaching staff. Yeah. You know, you're part of the backroom staff.
What goes, what conversations have you had with you to stay there and stay behind the scenes?

(28:11):
Jeans get that stick out right i'll
tell you as much truth as i can yeah without turning
into being dragging them all ground and all all right i'm not
trying i just want to know if it was there there
was a scenario whereby from the minute chris got the job and me and paul first
ever met him yeah because i i believed and i said it to paul at the time the

(28:34):
only man who should get offered for the job initially was Chris Basson because
something the FA never did is they never had the bottle to give him the job
because he was too confrontational and he didn't think he'd be able to handle him and all this.
And I get why they would think that, but trust me, Chris is not that man, and I knew that.
And I was of the opinion that Chris definitely should be the manager to do something they'd never done.

(28:54):
And actually, if you give it to him and it didn't work, there's no way could
you come under any criticism because on paper, everything made sense.
No one could technically argue.
And Paul said, yeah, I agree with you. and that's what we'll do and said to
me will you work with him and I said no problem that'll be okay we had a few
issues of interest at the time which we resolved.
I said I'll go and speak to him we'll sort out what our differences are

(29:17):
and we'll be good to go so that's what happened so Chris
got put in charge the very first time we met
Chris I made it very clear to him that me and him were working together
if he ever went it didn't necessarily mean like
when we did at Geordie's and Chris decided to walk away I'd
always said to him from the outset when he asked me what will you do if
I ever walk away I said I'll walk with you yeah I promised him that
and I was good to me word the day we were away in London at

(29:40):
the MIFA tournament there was chaos going on and he
said to me in the bedroom I think I've had enough mate I think I've had enough of
MIFA I think I've had enough with George it's time for me to
walk away I'm getting older and spend time with Karen and
I said not a problem and he said what are you going to do and I said I'll walk
I'll do what I promised you 10 years ago I'll walk
so I walked anyway way and we got out of it so i
made it very clear chris at the time that i was i may

(30:03):
not walk the next time because i've been a founder member and there
was a bigger picture for me and i had obviously a lot of years to go i
felt in football so he always knew there was a very good
chance that i would stay on yeah if he lost his job so obviously they decided
to part company with chris and it was on the proviso they they presumed i would
just stay in position and paul was going to come in and me and paul would work

(30:24):
together which had been discussed well before we approached coach Chris,
that somewhere down the line,
me and Paul would probably end up working together with him as manager, me as coach.
And that's how it would pan out over the course of maybe two or three or four
years of Chris doing it. It would lead to that change.
And because of various things where technically I thought it handled poorly
and, you know, it's open for debate. Everyone will have their story to tell on their side.

(30:46):
I just felt like it had been handled wrong.
I thought it could have been done differently. I didn't think the button needed
to be pressed when it did.
I didn't think it would have made any difference in terms of our league status
come the end of the season.
And they could have waited for Chris. Chris had already made a decision he was
going to walk away by the end of
the season because it was affecting his health, the stress and all that.
Which it was mine as well, by the way. as young as a lot I'm

(31:09):
obviously a lot younger than Chris I was struggling really struggling after
the travel and the stresses of early morning so I
was I felt burnt out myself Do you remember we went to Bursco
I was unbelievable He was thrown up on the sideline at half time
I was actually just nerves and stress it was just
pure stress that day we went to Bursco and people
don't realise this sort of stuff we ended up getting three lads from college

(31:30):
that we'd never even met before into a taxi to
get them to the airport to come and play for us because we didn't have enough players Mad innit
I'd spoke to Wigan in that day and I'd spoken to Wigan
and whose other team might be Rochdale two people
I know and they were going to loan us players they were actually going to loan
us youth team players to play that night just to get the game done and we got
over there and literally what had happened we were getting hammered at half

(31:51):
time it was a 4-1 or 3-0 or something 2 or 3-0 we were getting hammered at half
time and we come out after half time and we scored three goals in about 8 minutes
or something to get back at drawing.
And then we went ahead and I'll never forget Greece just I literally the moment
we got ahead head there was like a release of energy and i actually started
throwing up on the side of the bitch because the amount of stress i've had all

(32:11):
day i've been on the phone all day running around trying to get players speak
to managers from other clubs to say to demand if we took their players
it was just trying and then trying to get them registered and do all that stuff it was absolute
pandemonium so anyway i've i've got to that point for me it could have been
done at the end of the year and then there would have been a natural turnover
and paul would have come in and i would have stayed on anyway so that sort of

(32:33):
forced my hand i thought you know what i need to take a step back out the way.
I wasn't happy. You know, like I said, listen, it might have been the way I
was feeling. I played a little part in it, but there was things I was very unhappy about.
And my thing was I was going to step back, not a step away from the club,
but I was taking a step back from the football.
And then, because Paul moved in, there was things needing done in the club.

(32:53):
And then people who'd been involved in setting the club up with us said,
you know, why don't you come on the board and we can't lose you.
We want you in the club, you're an important part of the club.
And I made the conscious decision then that I was going to go into the club
and some of the things that I thought weren't getting done correctly I would
have a chip at them and try and sort of maybe make them better or fix them as
I thought it might not have been run by the way,

(33:15):
it's just my opinion I went in there with full of I always do, with full of energy.
Probably upset a few people to try and get the best the club could be
and I've been here and I've probably been ever since probably still
upset with people now but I went in there and done what I thought was
right and I tried to really make the fans and the
people from the community this the real focal point
like we'd always spoke about now that's not said in

(33:37):
a way to slag anyone off Dean but the fact of it was we
spent that long setting the club up and there was that much energy went into
it yeah I've then gone in and burnt all my energy off of being involved
in the football side and I thought that every one
of us had lost our lost our direction a little
bit and that was fatigue you know I can I could go
through and I won't name them but there's probably seven or eight people ended up
leaving in the club in the year i went on the board there

(33:59):
were seven or eight people left now some of them might have been because of
me which i accept and that's fine it is what it is but some of
them left because i think they were just mentally and physically exhausted it
took that much out of people and i think i don't think
if everyone was being honest anyone was doing the jobs to
the best of their abilities and so we've ended
up now we've almost got a completely new board with a different energy

(34:20):
with the different ideas and there was a lot we
had to stabilize the club because we nearly they lost the club in the February
and March I think we were done we thought we were done and it was a real fight
just to keep a hold of the club last season we've managed to get through that
and ultimately we are where we are now I think we're on a really good sort of
keel at the minute where we are the club's quite stable yeah a lot of good stuff

(34:40):
happening behind the scenes I think.
Hopefully I think it's getting seen by the fans I think it's getting seen by
sponsors the community we're starting to get a lot of traction and ultimately
we're getting traction is what our vision always was the initial group that
started that was the vision that we'd end up being that in the community.
I think through all the chaos and the turmoil in the first season of promotion
and then the second season of disappointment.

(35:01):
Yeah. I just think that like the management of that, no one had ever planned
for it. No one had ever been through it.
No one knew what was going to
happen. It rose sort of too quickly in a way for the plans of the floor.
Maybe we were a bit too successful too quickly and you'd never want to change that.
No. The experiences and, you know, you talk about the community there and building
a community around the club. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And...

(35:24):
I think if you don't have that first season where you do get promoted,
you get, you know, people on Facebook selling tickets for 50 quid to a cup final
and stuff like that, you know, it was.
But if you don't get that, the club aren't where they are today.
No, no, for good and bad. Yeah, yeah. Good and bad, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. But I think that key element of community is massive for FC Alleman.

(35:46):
And I can see how it's grown because, like, I'll be honest with you lads and
I've been honest with everyone.
I was an ace here at the start of FC Alleman. man yeah and that's
just coming from the local game with a very local
hat on yeah but i've been fortunate enough
to see how fcr man have grown yeah and i've i've
been able to step away from local football and look at local football and how

(36:07):
fcr man's bringing it on and it is the turnaround what what has happened from
the beginning when you're robbing all our players the leagues are going to be
shit it's going to be crap there's going to be no one playing to a competitive
league for the last two years where no one's really,
ran away with it as such.
You know, clubs yo-yoing, you know, players that I didn't even know existed

(36:31):
turning up in like the first Premier League division now because they've been
noticed in the second division a little bit and got a chance to shine. Yeah.
You know, that's what FC Isle of Man have done. Yeah. And it's massive.
And it was hard to convince people at the start. We always believed that that's
what would happen when we spoke about it, when we sat around the table.
That's what we believed would happen trying to convince people that

(36:52):
that was good for men's football is a whole different thing you stood in
front of them and you try to sell the club to them on the basis think about
your young players think about youth selves we're providing something that's
going to be for them not for now let's not put ourselves at the forefoot let's
put tomorrow's group of kids and next year's and 10 years and 20 years and think
about when you're 60 and 70 sat in your living room and your grandchild's playing

(37:13):
for FCL and it might be a slightly higher one than where we are now or your
grandchild might get picked up playing for FC Altman and go on and play in a
better level of football or turn into a professional.
But whatever that is, we knew it was all there, but trying to convince people
was hard. And then even when it started.
The naysayers were still, it was all negative. Yeah. And it's true,
we're nearly at the end of the third year of actually playing.

(37:34):
The club's obviously been going longer, but it's true to the end of the third
year. We're ultimately still in our infancy.
Yeah. The journey hopefully will be a long one. Yeah.
And it won't always involve me and Craig, I'm certain of that,
but you can always look back and we've been part of that journey.
Now, all I think we can do is try to help navigate the ship through the early
years the best we can, Dean.
And there'll be things we'll look back on, I'm sure, that we'll say we did wrong,

(37:57):
but things were done well and since I went on the board and the board sort of
very much changed it doesn't take away anything from what anyone did in setting
that club up the lads who I was involved doing it with.
Through the amount of commitment they give and the way it drained them all and
took away from them I understand why some of them stepped away completely because
I felt like it but then I've got something in me that like football and that

(38:19):
I've just like always put it out the forefront of everything and it's terrible
because football it's tough and she'll tell you she's like a widow at times,
but I've managed to stay in there and hang in there and recover from that fatigue
stay involved in the club and I would like to think that I've decided maybe
making mistakes I think I've done some good stuff and I think I offer,
some good stuff to FCL9 in terms of being connected with

(38:40):
the fans and then being having people like Craig around me is great I love just
having that relationship you have with individuals in the club and groups and
like some days you want to kill each other it's a fact you do it's like any
job you don't want to see each other for weeks but when you get together rather
than you make strides forward and we stabilize the finances and we.
And you start looking and go, well, this year we might finish a bit higher than

(39:02):
we did last year, and that's a step forward.
You start weighing it all up, and you think, you know what? You're glad you're in it. Yeah.
Craig, you've been in a position where you've been stood back from a lot of
that, and you've seen the turmoil go on from a different angle, didn't you?
Yeah. And from your perspective, what's that been like for you from when you watched it?
Because it was obviously hard for you, because you were with a manager,
and then you were with another, and you were stuck right in the middle of it,

(39:24):
really, weren't you, at times? Yeah, absolutely.
Like, an ideal situation for me would have been, well, not ideal,
But like Chris got sacked, like you can't change that.
But I would have liked you to stay on with Jonesy.
Cause I think, and a lot of the players spoke to me about it and we had conversations
like that's sort of what they wanted. That didn't happen.
Might happen, might never happen.
Who knows? But it was tricky because I sort of felt like, what is it?

(39:48):
It's the word allegiances to Chris as well, because I got started that with
him as well. And that first season like was fucking unbelievable.
Yeah. Like for you, you call them X football, but like.
Like the memories you get from that like the videos on youtube like
some days i've got half an hour to kill i'll just pop it on because
like i get a bit of a buzz from it oh because it's understandable as
well like i don't go there to like like there's not many you don't see many

(40:10):
pictures of me on gary's no well you know for a fact craig when i sent you when
i sent you a message i was like craig have you got any pictures in your f7 land
stuff you're like no so obviously me being me i've i found someone i was like
there you go craig i found one of you yeah can i find I'm on a dickhole.
Yeah, from about three years ago when he's pointing and shouting and something,
that'll do, that'll work. He's got his FCL mask on.

(40:31):
I must have upset people if there's not many bitches at me. Yeah.
No, that was it. It's tricky, but like, I get on well with Jonesy as well. Like.
Back to Dicko's question, yeah, it was strange, really. Like,
I don't think anyone sort of knew what to do at that time.
But I think the good thing was we were playing away on the Saturday then, in the Cup.
So that was a bit of a free hit for Jose. We got beat 2-1.

(40:53):
But you got away as well. You got away from the fire of the home fans as well
in that sort of situation, which probably is a good thing at that time because
everything that happened, you know, Chris come out, he'd done his interview.
Chris done that interview with Energy, didn't he? And things like that.
But it gave Jonesy that good time.

(41:13):
I know it was only within a week, but he's off the island. He's not got the
pressure of two, 300 people, 500 people even down the bowl on his back.
I found it hard, Dean. I found it really hard and I struggled.
My missus would tell you, I really, really struggled with it for months afterwards
because everywhere you went, everyone wanted to know what happened,
what the insight was, what really went on.

(41:34):
You were constantly getting asked off people and it was obviously raw because
I knew how much Chris Chris was struggling with it after everything he'd done.
He was really struggling emotionally with the whole thing.
And it was horrible. And people would look and go, it's only football,
what are you bothered about?
But the point of it is, it wasn't, and it never had been for us.
It was always more than that.
Go back to that thing I said about the level of commitment and what we did and

(41:55):
how we drove the players.
It was more than that. Even when it was just Manx football and we were just
winning Grand Slams, it was always more than that.
And so when it happened to Chris, it was a position he never thought he'd probably
ever going to be in. And it was really, really hard to deal with the emotions
I was going through because of that allegiance with Chris.
I wanted to stay involved in the club to make the club better.
Probably technically to make sure that we don't ever make the mistakes again.

(42:18):
And I'm not, listen, I'm not saying that if we'd gotten to the end of the season
and decided to get rid of Chris, I'm not saying that was a mistake.
It was obviously certain things that I felt how stuff was done.
But like, I stayed involved because I want to make sure that we don't ever.
You've learned from their mistakes. I think we owe it to the fans.
I think we owe it to sponsors to make sure that we add a level of stability to the club.

(42:39):
And that might be, that might be there where we're not judging them all the
time on how high of a league we finished because, as me and Chris know,
and the lads around the club, that second season was horrific with the amount of injuries in place.
I think we played most of that season with like nine of the team that finished
the playoff final without them. We played all season without them.
We had a lot of young lads come in, which has been great because some of them

(43:01):
are still involved now and we got a chance to develop, but it wasn't ideal in
what me and Chris wanted because we were driven by success.
We wanted to win. And ideally, we'd have had that same group of players and
had a fight and wanted to go in and try and get promoted again in our heads
and it went completely wrong.
And I think that shouldn't be, and I think it could have been linked that differently
in terms of the group of players we work with.
I think looking back now, I think the group of people who were making their

(43:24):
decisions at the time will now look at it differently.
And I think I would like to think I play a part in that, making sure that they
look at things from every angle when we're weighing up decisions and looking
at results, why the results are not going well and it might be unavailability,
injuries. There's so many factors.
Travelling, the fatigue that we go through from travelling Handling is absolutely horrendous.

(43:44):
Only when you live it do you start to get a full handle. And Craig will tell
you, he doesn't actually play, but he's involved in everything else.
It literally, there's days you wake up and you feel like it's hard to get your
head off the pillow at that time.
And that's it. I'm going to be fortunate enough because I'm going away with
the club twice in the next couple of weeks.
Travelling with the squad and doing all that to cover their games for the club.

(44:05):
And I get to see how that is and see how it is for you.
And I'm going to, what I've said, I've said, I've spoke to people at the club
and I've said, I'm going to make like a little video blog of it.
So people can actually go out and see it and see what it is.
And I think that for me will give people more, even more of an insight into
it because yes, there's, we've, FC Alleman have got a fantastic fan base that

(44:28):
follow them all around. Yeah.
But they go on their own travel. They don't have to do the regime.
The players have to do, and the club and the staff have to follow because they
don't understand how time-constricted it is.
They have to be there at a certain time. They have to do certain things.
They've got media duties they have to do. It's not just FCL.
I'm making them do that. It's league rules as well and things like that.

(44:50):
There's a lot more boxes to tick behind the scenes that they have to do. It's scaring me.
You know what? The blog that you're going to do, which will be for one away trip.
Spending a week in the life of a player in a normal week early
in the season when you're training tuesday thursdays at
half six in the morning yeah and the times they have to
get up and then they're going into work and then you've got a midweek game on
a wednesday and then you play saturday wednesday saturday wednesday for nine

(45:13):
weeks and you factor all that in with going to airports and then like being
maybe delayed when you're in an airport coming home in the morning they've got
issues to deal with at work it's it what an eye-opener would be if you could But actually,
if you could produce one in a standing week at the start of the season and show
people what they do, people would have their minds blown by it.
I genuinely think next season, pre-season, I'll get in touch.

(45:34):
Well, I won't even need to get in touch with you.
You know, I already help out with the club and I help out with it.
And I genuinely think if I can get something out like that, it would,
like, as you say, the insight people will get.
It's crazy. It's just mad. We talk about all the concrete, don't we?
The fatigue you carry with you. It's fucking relentless.
I do the itinerary. sort of that good we've got we use a an app

(45:54):
called sport easy so all the information yeah and then you
guarantee like last night charlie higgins all right sheriff what time we meet
tomorrow you little dickhead just fucking read the thing you do this every week
yeah just fuck and then we had it we're going away the other week got to like
we had to be at the airport for 10 past 6 got to like 20 to 7 flight leaving
at 10 past kyle watson on the phone uh didn't.

(46:18):
Kyle like i'm through having a cup of tea here like yeah what what am i meant
to do mate it's dickle deal with that please mate i like my head one of the
women that worked behind the desk there,
i was when i went out and she would travel to man united for years
we dealt with this lady all the time and she was amazing yeah it's actually
tears nana and i said just ask for this lady and then he put her on the phone
and she went lay all sort of for you and he let him through but it was like

(46:40):
we were sat there it's like looking after kids yeah it was like that time of
the morning and one of your players i think he was starting that day what he
yeah he can't even get through and And then I'm looking at Paul Jones sat there and I'm thinking,
his whole plans go out the window if Kyle doesn't come through because he's
now going to be picking a player who now thinks he's not playing.
And the whole dynamic changed and you were playing now, straight away.
It's mad. It was unbelievable, wasn't it? Yeah, I remember nine of us had to

(47:02):
stay over because there's a few issues with the flights being booked.
Tiening lost his ID to a trans-alem on the flight. We had it with Frank,
one in Liverpool airport, there's Shubsworth giving a big one.
He's like, no, you're not going anywhere, booking your flight.
It's mad, isn't it? It's mad. It's mad. and like people honestly people
will never ever see that unless they're part of it do you know what I mean it's
funny it's hard when you look back now isn't it your last start but do you know

(47:24):
when you're in the moment and you're tired when you arrive at the airport and
you've maybe rushed from work to get there or you've got up at five o'clock
and Craig's running around getting kits and picking lamps up and then you get
to the airport and that happens it's not funny at the time it makes you get angry
it's all you just shared a room with Charlie Higgins.
He's shadowboxing at three o'clock in the morning you've got to be up at half

(47:45):
five to be in the airport for six and just think,
Craig's been in DC and he's got Charlie's medication yeah he comes down gives
him a bag of Skittles keeps him awake all night doesn't go to work the next
day it's crazy there's stuff every day isn't there like if you don't get a question in like,
On a day you think something's going wrong here, like Friday night.
It's too good. It's too good of a day if you've not had something.

(48:05):
If you get five hours without anything happening, you're happy, aren't you? You think.
No one's, but then you start panicking. The longer it then goes on, you do panic, don't you?
You start thinking, have we missed something? Or is my phone not working?
Because it's normally, most days it's just nonstop, isn't it? Yeah.
There's always some dickhead sending voice notes in, isn't there, singing Elvis Presley?
Craig's renowned for, he thinks he's a bit of a singer, Craig.

(48:26):
And like, it could be half 10, 11 o'clock at night, and he'll put on a full
Elvis of him singing in his bedroom and it goes on there and then they're like,
oh my God, here we go again and it goes on for an hour until past midnight,
put a voice note in, anyone got any requests on the moment scene?
Oh, I know. Pain in the ass. Well, you have got the end of season,
do you come up for SC Alamai?
Is there a karaoke machine there, Dicko? You haven't been at one of them yet, have you?

(48:48):
No, but I'm coming this year, I've accepted my thing, so we'll,
you'll get a little insight.
Whether the karaoke Steve Whitley will sing something. I'm going to get you up, Craig,
mate no problem Craig can sing anything badly so what the
odds then on this podcast I'll buy you a little Elvis outfit to wear
yeah no problem mate there you go right

(49:09):
everyone's heard it it's on there so we've
all got witnesses you can video it and you can get it out there yeah yeah we'll
get it out there I'm caught in a trap now aren't I yeah but no that's good so
right we'll move on lad so that's a great insight for your footballing days
okay mine's obviously far superior than yeah one more one more with Dicko you
know played at that dead-high professional level,

(49:30):
contacts all over the UK, professional clubs. He's won all these things.
Bet he's never won a Raffles at Mary's for a haircut off Tracy, has he?
I think I did once, didn't I? Won you? Fucking walk on water,
you. I think I did more once. Won the Golden Goal off Dobbin.
Sold him 10 tickets, that's what it was. I think I did.

(49:52):
Right, so we'll move on. A couple of questions here.
We'll talk about St Mary's. So, Franny Dooley. character what a character makes
up 50% of me yeah yeah we've got.
One for you, Dicko. I think you've really answered it because he said,
would you ever be interested in being the top manager, like the manager of FC Alleman one day?

(50:14):
Maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, yeah. If you asked me now today,
Si, I would say I think one day I will be.
Yeah. At some point, whether that's in two years, five years,
ten years, I would say, yeah, that could change.
Like, I do like what I'm doing now. Yeah, my instinct is always to want to work
with players and be around that environment.
In a book what i'm doing now and like

(50:34):
the sense of achievement we get from doing what we do i
enjoy i do enjoy it so like yes i
think i will do but over the years i could wane and i might go away
from that and i might decide you know what i've done my bit and it's not for me
that side of it anymore and you enjoy sort of being upstairs on the backside
yeah on the back in the background doing what i do now and that and you know
that's how it might pan out but today saturday now i'd say yeah yeah as long

(50:56):
as craig will be my assistant yeah no problem we've got a bagman in there as
well that's why he's asked he's peppering you we won't do team talks we'll just let him,
Franny's after Craig's job I think that's what it is he likes he likes to give
the lads a rub and I don't mean that we all know what's in Franny's medical
bag don't we it's not a magic sponge,
I remember as a kid used to like you'd go down to where I was watching and like

(51:18):
you'd be fucking rubbing Paddy Horn in that 20 minutes what is he doing like.
You get concerned about but it comes the second
one's for you Craig from Franny and he basically says where's my
birthday card he didn't say that no
he said there what what continues to drive
your passion and dedication for fcl man on a weekly basis

(51:38):
and i think that's quite intelligent for franny yeah yeah do you know what it
is like the we do a lot with like the children that probably doesn't get noticed
too much like on like go and visit them and stuff it's like well documented
but first season we won um sports ambassadors of the year for the island and it's like Like,
I've got three kids, two boys and a little girl.

(52:00):
The lads are fully mad. And the amount of kids that are down there,
you just think, like, what we're doing now is building for them, isn't it, really?
And to know that we're going to be part of something that is hopefully still
there in, like, 15 years' time.
When the likes of, like, Lee, someone like Regan and George and all the other
little lads, Louis Bass, when they're coming through, you hope it's still up
for them. And you can look back and think, do you know what?

(52:20):
Like, if they're in League 2 or whatever, do you know what? Even if they're
only, if it's 10 years away, and they're two or three leagues higher,
but they've had progressive seasons where everything's got better.
That's a success to me for FC Alleman. It's not...
You don't have to rock up the leagues to be fantastic.
It might only be where we are now, but if one of them kids, and there'll be

(52:41):
hundreds of others out there, if one of them kids comes into FC Alleman and
starts playing well, and like a Dean Pennington scenario,
a club comes in who are bigger and better than us, and they take them on and
they go through the leagues with them, or they end up playing in the football
league because a league club comes in.
If that happens, that's a success.
I think it's just about giving opportunities. It doesn't have to be that we get promoted.

(53:01):
As long as the club's running correctly and we're playing our part within the
community like we always want to, doing the things Craig's on about to sort
of bring community together and give opportunities to all different facets of things like, you know,
people working in the sports science bit or physioing or massaging or in the
media bit or whatever that is.
We're giving all them opportunities out and we're bringing kids into play who

(53:22):
then can kick on and do better.
That is success, I think. That's massive. It's massive. I think as well,
like yourself, you just love footy, don't you?
Yeah. Like, I'm not obviously, in Paul Jones' opinion, good enough to play.
Dicko and Bas used to try and get me down again, first season.
I think, like, you're doing something you enjoy, and you're getting the chance
to travel away, and, like, you're making new friends.

(53:43):
I've normally sort of, like, since I was a child, and obviously we've become
really, really good friends over the last couple of years through the football
club, and you meet all, like, different sort of lads. Like, from when, like...
Going back to St Mary's, when you're there, like, you go and play these teams
twice a season, you think, like, Corinthians are just all ball bags, aren't they?
No, it's just maybe, like, you think, like, Doyle is a great,

(54:04):
like, because they're good, like, they're beating us, you think,
like, the Wankers, but when you come together as one, like, you're a little
bit standoffish with everyone, but then, like,
everyone's just got that one thing in common of, like, they just love football,
don't they? And, like, they're just normal lads, like the rest of us.
But there's a thing you thought was wrong with them lads, aren't there?
Yeah, no, definitely not.
It's a preconception often. You used to come against lads from,

(54:25):
say, Peel or from Russian or from Castletown or whatever and you'd think,
oh, I'm not really like him because of whatever.
And then you'd come together and go, he's nothing like I thought he was. No. Nothing like it.
He's on the same team then, aren't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had Myers on the
other week and Johnny Myers and he said the exact same thing.
He said, it's, you know, I used to think he was a knob I thought he was a dickhead

(54:47):
I think at home with him now he has a laugh with them he gets on with them and it's great.
They still think he's a knobber he's been five so many
times I remember talking about the goal against
Max up at Geordie's I was playing I
stood and watched the goal from Max's head thinking Max what
are you doing you little dwarf I remember saying to Max a few years ago you broke

(55:07):
my heart so many times you go up there it gets half
time nil nil you go one nil up and the next thing bang bang bang
you fuck five on down have yeah miles have scored again
and that's it and how he does it every week like what he's
doing now i've got the utmost admiration from player managing basically trying
to run a club as well we are in the scenes it's mental yeah it's
crazy he's using his experience so i'll just move on

(55:28):
again dickle this is more in your capacity as
a director of football and it comes from steve fox used
to play for union mills used to manage union mills and he
basically says how do you get about
looking at players for the FC Alleman squad like do you
have recommendations or just general knowledge of like players
in the league there should be two parts to this so when me and Chris were
managers yeah we used to actively go around and everyone in the Alleman couldn't

(55:53):
say this when we went out and watched a game every Saturday without fail when
we were at home yeah on the Alleman and we used to make ourselves visible so
the people seeing us and we we were out looking at players we weren't just going
there to tick a box we were there watching players,
built around what we wanted it might not be what someone else wanted that they
might believe that him and him are really good and you should be watching them.

(56:13):
But me and Chris have very specific things we wanted. And I'm going to use an
example here with Jamie Cole from Ramsey.
So we went down to watch it. We had Sean Quay coming back from injury.
He'd been out for about five or six weeks with a back problem.
So we went down to see how Sean was, because obviously we were getting to the
point of the season where we were hopefully going to turn and go on the run
in, pick up. So we needed to know if he was fit to bring in the squad.

(56:35):
So we went down to watch Sean and Kieran McNulty, who we'd wanted in the squad
from the outset, because the personal situation wasn't in it.
He had an unbelievable game that day.
He was like running all over the pitch, running behind, stretching the team,
scored a couple of goals.
Probably man of the match.
If you'd have said that day or whose man the match I'd have said Peke.
But the irony was the person marking Peke was Jamie Corlett.

(56:58):
And Jamie Corlett was never more than about two foot away from Peke the whole game.
Now that in itself is some achievement because people don't get to do that with Peke.
No. Just running with him into corner flags and chasing him and tackling him.
And Jamie would be tackling him and go out for a corner. Now he went away going Peke was brilliant.
But me and Chris said that lad who marked him is some athlete to do that.

(57:18):
He might have a chance because he had the athletic capability.
Yeah. and we thought he might have a chance he's not bad in so we approached
the Ramsey manager I spoke to the manager because I used to deal with that side
for Chris and I spoke to him and he said to me do you know what he said that
has actually made my day because I've been going on about people in our club
for years about James' potential
and none of them will have it none of them think he's any of that and I feel

(57:41):
like I'm swimming into the tide a bit at times and I'm trying to convince Blaise that he's up to it.
And he said that backs up everything I believe that I see in him so he felt
great about that and he was really proud that we took one of their players and
we brought Jamie in and Jamie played on the cup what led up to winning the cup
and like probably by the sound of it no one in Ramsey thought Jamie would have
been in it and yet probably two months after we went and watched him off the back of watching.

(58:06):
Pecker and we seen this kid that we thought had the attributes we wanted and
he's on the ball playing in front of three and a half thousand people winning
the cup and all his mates was doing down there thinking wow
that's how you can't get picked up and that was important to me and Chris because
it wasn't I told my ingest here, we genuinely seen something in the lads.
But I think that was a message to other people out there that listen,

(58:26):
if you're performing and you've got what Lee and Chris think is right,
you can get into that squad.
And we did it with a lot of lads. We used to go and watch rushing quite a lot.
Yeah. We'd go to Peel. We would get around and watch every single team.
We even went to second division games to watch players and we were asked and we were visible now.
That was when we were in charge. As a director of football, I still go and I

(58:46):
can watch games and I will, if I see players, I'll speak all about it.
Paul it's it's really important though paul has his
way of doing stuff now paul had a some kind
of scouting set up network set up in and
around people like you've now put on the team like gaz lloyd
and ben qualter and they had some kind of thing they were trying to pick up it's
paul's system and paul a bit how he wants and he runs it like

(59:07):
that now i don't try to impose on him how he should run
a scouting system because ultimately he's got to live and die by his
decisions and his ideas so paul does that off
his own back and i sort of continue to go out every saturday
and I'll travel around teams and people will see me at games and
I go all over the island watching games because I like
doing that that's something I've always been interested in I like going and
seeing players and thinking how would he fit into our system if I was the manager

(59:31):
or me and Chris so that's how we used to do it and Paul does it I think he's
doing it a different way now I don't know whether they're out on a Saturday
but they have a different kind of network to try and bring players in and then Paul is some at.
Invited what they thought was about 50 to 60 players.
Yeah, the development squad they had. Yeah, and then over the course of pre-season,

(59:52):
they wangled that down and then they added what they had left into what they
already had to make the new squad.
And so I think that'll probably, something similar might happen again this summer.
But it's always open for the kid popping up or a player popping up that maybe
gets back and then you watch them and all of a sudden they might get called
into a squad that you don't have enough players. Like that day against Bershko. go.

(01:00:14):
Luckily for us, the three lads we brought with us, although we hadn't actually
had them train with us and never physically met them face to face,
me and Chris had been up to, three of them all come from Duggee Royals that particular day.
We'd been out and watched them and we'd sort of earmarked them and said,
these are three to watch, so we went to them three and we put them with us and
two of them scored didn't we?
Two of them actually come off the bench and scored it. When you see that, you go, do you know what?

(01:00:37):
Them Saturdays when you go sometimes and it's raining at night,
you think, what are we doing here? We've got a game tonight and we're going
to be out all day at football.
It's nights like that that you go, what we're doing is right,
like we got it right because with these three kids that we know a little bit
about from watching them, what we've ever met them, but we're able to bring
them and have an idea how they would fit into our team and then they went on
and scored the goals and Tom Crear, when he'd come on, we'd be watching,

(01:00:58):
we actually watched Tom, we watched Tom here against the old boys and we went
and watched him against Union Mills in a game, so we had a little insight into
these players because we were out every Saturday and we'd sort of watch them
for ourselves and we used to get the game and I'll go back to that,
I said at the start, people would be like he's good and he's good they'd come
up and tell you but like very rarely would the players that me and Chris would
leave go and they'll fit in with us Paul will have his own ideas about what

(01:01:22):
he's looking for in players and you know they go about it and use the young
lads that they've brought in like Harley Jackson I was just going to say like Paul's got,
is it once a month I think I'm right in saying correct me if I'm wrong he brings
in a group of young lads once a month doesn't he yeah.
To say use it come in once a month for training Harley was into that Ethan Hawley I think to know,

(01:01:43):
they're two shining lights really because Ethan come with us and
scored didn't he he got a winning goal which was unbelievable to get that goal
was absolutely amazing and then Hawley come on against Kendal and to be honest
for about five or six minutes he was unbelievable just the way he applied himself
like on a really bad day for the club a really bad day everywhere apart from
him was a shining light why was that a bad day what was the score 6-1,

(01:02:06):
or something, both. Like, for him to come on, though, it puts you a bit of a,
you're going, you know what?
Like, when you come away, Jonesy probably thought he'd had a horrific day,
but thought, do you know what?
Harley's one for the future. And the fact we've had him come in and train justifies
that part of what he's trying to do. Yeah.
Fair play to Harley as well. Like, 17-year-old lad, he trains maybe a handful
of times, then come in, you think you've been there from day dot.

(01:02:29):
Like, you got stuck in, you got involved.
Didn't look at a place at all. No. And that's what you want.
I think that's a testament,
then, to how Paul's scouting network and how he's going about picking players
is working because you know without the way he's doing it would he have ever
been picked up maybe maybe not you'll never know you know what you'll always
have no matter how you do it if you went out to every training session,

(01:02:51):
like or to training sessions every night of the week with
clubs for the whole season and you went to Saturdays and went to
watch every club on the Allman you would pick your squad and
you'd still be criticised and that's fine because it
comes back to part of the territory of the job like you know like Stephen Fox
you said that so Stephen Fox you could say to him tomorrow well you're the manager
you pick your squad and it might be completely different than Paul Jones and

(01:03:13):
ultimately the proof of the pun is in the eating he'll go and be a manager and
he'll either do well or not and his plays he picks will do well or not and it's ever evolving
Paul's picked the squad at the start of the season that he thinks is absolutely correct it's
going to do the best it can and over the season he's probably changed his mind
on some plays there's probably plays he's brought in and he didn't think we're
going to be up to it and now he does and there's probably plays he thought were

(01:03:34):
going to be up to it that he's now questioning because he's seen him in the
environment with the commitment levels and so that's ever evolving he'll never
ever have a scenario where everyone agrees with his squad and that's it and that's it and.
It's one of them things, isn't it? You're never going to please anyone,
everyone. You can't ever please everyone.
You shouldn't be. He's going out. He's got a straightforward plan of how he

(01:03:55):
wants to play football, a system, and he knows what players he wants that will fit into that.
And that's it. And any manager that ever does the job should have the running of that.
Because the minute you start to take it into them, unfortunately, it can go wayward.
And then if it goes wrong, they'll say, well, it didn't go wrong because for
me it went wrong because I was getting things imposed on me. But I don't believe it.
Yeah, and I was told this and I was told that. and that's how

(01:04:16):
it is but the next one then it's again from
Steve Fox I think it ties in quite nicely has
it ever been talked about it's possible to put an FC Allemagne
team in the Manx leagues like have a squad
of say 30 that can play for both which would keep the
players together and playing every week to build the
chemistry it will never happen no in our

(01:04:37):
constitution we will never ever have a team playing when
we went forward to the clubs to vote us in on one to allow the club to start
and exist and we always there was about five or six things that we absolutely
guaranteed would never happen we promised we'd never interfere with facilities
people's training facilities which hence we train in the mornings when no one
else does because we're not interfering with facilities.

(01:04:58):
We always said we wouldn't have an academy until we were absolutely guaranteed
that we could by the FA if that ever happens and if they say no forever it'll
be no we said we would never kick off at three o'clock
when other man's football's on so we don't take people out of football we said
we'd never never have a team in the local league, you know, and again, we said we never would.
Maybe we can, over the years, we'll always approach people about these things.

(01:05:21):
Water because it might be that we ask can we put an under-18s team
in it they might say no and it's a no and that's fine and we'll walk
away and that's okay but then things might get tested but
the reality of it is as it's written now then things won't happen
because we have to be good go our way because when we met these clubs and we're
trying to sell FC Allemand to them and Paul was doing various presentations
and I did a few and we always guaranteed them of these things it was important

(01:05:44):
to be accepted that we wouldn't make a mess of that because us having another
squad in the Manx League and winning the league again is no no good.
No. That would be a major, major problem. That kills Manx football.
Yeah, and so that is why for me, it will just never happen I don't think.
No. And that's fair enough.
So before I go on to the next sort of topic, Craig, we'll finish on a question from...

(01:06:04):
And he basically wants to know what your normal match day routine is.
So for home games, we down the ball about three, half three if some areas are playing.
Once they're done, we'll go in, get set up, get a few meds.
But during the day, just chill out. like mess about
with the kids whatever in the morning or go to town or go whitley's or frank's
whatever take the kids out for a bit and then go three o'clock it's just get

(01:06:28):
set up for the day really and what about if you're going away like how does
that differ if you're traveling just yes because i do the itinerary like you
have to like let the lads know like well in advance,
for what they're doing so like i said today you should be in a way tonight so
i would have had to work till 12 o'clock,
Went home, got my bag ready, like I would have had the kit ready last night

(01:06:49):
and the medical bag and stuff to travel.
Had all that like well ready. So yeah, just in case I get to the airport, really.
Make sure everyone's there and checked in and we're out in Manchester on time.
Hopefully get the bags, go and get some food.
Count the heads as they're coming on the coach. Make sure everyone's there.
Yeah, just make sure everyone's there, yeah.
Not like Kyle Watson or Charlie Higgins behind anywhere, no.

(01:07:11):
It wouldn't always be a bad thing.
Yeah no the match stays they're fairly straightforward they're pretty boring
as well at the same time just usually like first one there and last one out,
but like i choose to do it don't i so i'm not at the end
of the day craig as you've said before you enjoy it yeah it's not
like i know you say it sounds a bit

(01:07:32):
boring but the things you do when you're doing them
you're loving it it just to the outside might seem
a bit boring yeah i get that that yeah and that's
i get that as well it's good i enjoy it like i said
if i didn't enjoy it i wouldn't do it but like i get both sides like
in the dressing room if the lad's having a bit of crack like we can put a
ball around the dressing room or something and if someone throws a pair

(01:07:53):
of socks and they land the floor just put them back straight at them or then
you like go upstairs and a bit more of a professional head on talk with the
sponsors and stuff like that and it's good no it's good and that's that's what
you enjoy mate and you're doing a fantastic job at it as well like everyone's
great for the kids as well like because my kids have been to quite a few away
games and they're at most home games like everyone's great with them like the

(01:08:13):
players always got time for them and stuff and kids are
cheeky now and they get straightened out that's what you want isn't it get them
put in their place you don't want to get them too big for the boots too early,
so we'll move on and I'll put this to both of you I ask all my guests the same
question at the moment what's the best thing about men's football.
It's a difficult one. I thought about this. I think like it's good to see,

(01:08:35):
like I feel that there's a lot of managers that are quite young.
It's good to see that they took an interest in that side of things.
For whatever reason, they're not playing when it's up to them.
But I do think it's good to see like a lot of young lads in there and a lot
of people who probably wouldn't have seen it like a few years ago,
the likes of Dean Ray and Pat McGinn and the young lad, Brad,
I don't know his name. Is it Liam?

(01:08:55):
Yeah, yeah. I feel like there's a lot of young people doing it, which is good.
Obviously, we've got an issue with referees at the minute and stuff,
haven't they? That's one of them. That was onto that. What about you,
Dick? What do you think is good about Manx football?
I think since FC Alleman started, I think you alluded to it at the start,
Dean, I think there's been a lot more level playing field.
I think you've had probably now four or five teams that go into the season and

(01:09:18):
think they've got a chance of winning the Cup.
And I don't think before FC Alleman that's been the case for a long, long period of time.
And maybe throughout the course of history of Manx football.
Maybe the odd random team would pop up and win the Cup now and again but it
was never a regular thing you always have teams that dominated,
and so now I just think like yeah you've still got A
United have done very well but A United weren't doing well

(01:09:39):
before FC Alleman come along and then they are and then obviously Corinthians
lost a lot of players but they've been managed to sort of rejuvenate the squad
they brought a lot of young lads in now there's a lot of inconsistency there
at the minute but then they could have a new group of young lads who Ben's bringing
through I watched a couple of them on Saturday against Samaria who's fantastic 16,
17 years old brilliant they're managing and rejuvenate their squad,

(01:10:01):
you've got Peel, they've had a resurgence because they've gone,
we could win the league now.
Yeah. That like Corinthians aren't around and Jordies aren't dominating anymore.
So they've had a resurgence and they've got some brilliant young lads coming
through and Danny Bell and Mark Kelly are doing a great job down there.
And again, go back to that, like Craig's saying there, the fact that them two
edge players, it was so good at Peel and such icons to stay on at Peel and be

(01:10:22):
doing such a great job down there is absolutely brilliant.
So they've got a chance. And so I just think like And Ramsey,
I think Ramsey have always been doing okay, haven't they? Yeah,
yeah, in the last couple of years.
So I just think across the board, there's a chance there for other teams to win the league.
Like Laxey, the brilliant one, Johnny Palmer.
I played with Johnny when I was only 15 years old at Bull Rose.

(01:10:43):
And he was unbelievable, like so good. And to see him still in men's football
now, doing what he does down at Laxey, such a brilliant community club.
They have so many young local lads playing.
And to see them doing well, it's like brilliant. Do you know what I mean?
And again, they've got that opportunity now to keep competing and they're going
to have a chance of winning cups and stuff.
So for me, it's the thing we spoke about that we thought would happen with men's

(01:11:06):
football in terms of at level on the playing field and I think it has and I think it's not.
No team's absolutely dominating. Clearly, yeah, they're slightly better than
the others but they're certainly not on a level where they're just going to
go into every season knowing they're going to win the league and knowing they're
going to win every trophy because that's not what's happened.
But again, with Ayr, it comes back to.
Look who's managing them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nick Hurt, you know,

(01:11:27):
experience from the match. Nick's been successful everywhere.
Yeah. Ever since Nick's done, he's been successful.
He took over when I left St. John's. Their remit was slightly different.
They brought a lot of players in, good players, and they had a great group.
Yeah, yeah. And again, Malcolm Blackburn in the background of St.
John's when he then got involved off the back of me being down there,
they then start setting that tournament up when they brought them international teams over.

(01:11:47):
Yeah. Which was the start of it for Malcolm getting Mifah going in Alabama.
So, like, they were such a, he was successful there. Nick and
then everywhere he's done winning the gold medal at the Ireland Games
he's been really good at what he's done and true that he
knows what it takes to actually win tournaments and win trophies and
he's carrying it on down there now and it's brilliant to see
because for me I look at Nick and I think why couldn't he

(01:12:08):
be a future manager of the FC Allman because he's a serial winner
on his CV he is a serial winner now when you
look at it there's not many outside of say Chris Bass
who can look and go well this is what's on my CV as a
manager there's not many out there he can do it I'm
looking and I think well Nick could be the Nick Herc could be a future FC Alleman
manager he knows how to put teams together and do you know what he's a footballing

(01:12:31):
man as well 100% and that he's got I know it sounds weird and like you've got
it Jones you've got it you've all had it because you've been at that level where
you've you've gone out of the Alleman and challenged yourself that footballing brain has developed.
Whereas you can have a footballing brain on the Alleman that is local yours
is wider scheme and you've got that that bigger passion and desire to go on

(01:12:53):
Yeah, and I think that's the difference in that bracket.
Like I said, it's like the last time when we had, when we had the,
we went for the manager's job there, we advertised for a half expected next CV.
I'm going to be honest with you. And if you looked at it on paper,
I don't think there'd be many CVs better than, you know, he is successful.
Yeah. I'm actually winning stuff and it won it repeatedly in different situations.

(01:13:15):
I think CV-wise, his might have been the best because I don't think anyone out
there, I haven't, I've got it as a coach and, you know, Chris would say,
well, I was like a manager with him. You know, we weren't together.
Everything we did was like me, him and Paul O'Brien in that scenario.
But Nick has actually been the manager. I know he's had a brilliant help in
Rick Holden when he's had Rick to bounce off.
Yeah. But Rick's not there at the minute and he's still winning.

(01:13:37):
Yeah. So, yeah, no, it's brilliant.
That's fair enough. So, it's a question, I know it's a tough question for you
guys being involved with FC Alleman but I've got to ask it because I ask everyone,
what's not so great about Mains football at the moment?
I don't I haven't like sadly I haven't watched enough or like I've listened
to the other Mains footy podcast.

(01:13:58):
I don't really have an answer what I would say Mains would be is the fact that
Kevin Maitland's retiring like I'm gutted that he's he's doing that yeah yeah
yeah he's like so so big for football and Mets as well but Kevin retiring could
make they could all go peak top I think,
yeah listen I think in football I think you always

(01:14:19):
lose good people and I think if you look down years over the
FA if I go back to say Tony Mappam the amount
of good people Tony's seen move on and come to the end and finish like when
Anne Garrick did it and Tony Jones did it and all these people it's sad and
it's hard to see a future beyond them sometimes because they're so good and
so efficient but things do move on and new people come in and things might get

(01:14:40):
done slightly differently in a different way than what they did but they can
end up being just as good or just as successful,
and Kev will be a massive host in the FA I know that about and football in general I would.
I would love to, or hope that we might even be able to get him involved in FCL, man, in the future.
So he's down there every week as well. Yeah, listen, Alex plays, he's down watching us.
He loves it. And it's great to see him down there. He's a fan,

(01:15:01):
you know, but hopefully, I don't think Kevin's the kind of man who'll just disappear
out of football. I don't think that.
But Manx football is going to lose him in terms of the FA. So that's obviously
bad, but I've got, I'll be a bit controversial here and I'm going to say something.
Not like you, Lee. People when I speak to them, because, and I've been saying
it for years, a long, long, long time before FC Alleman come about how long,

(01:15:22):
and people use that as a convenient excuse now.
Football in the Alleman has been going down the pan for 15 years,
and there's so many factors, and I think it's society that drives most of them.
I don't think it's anything that the FA have particularly done wrong.
I would say that the issues go back to kids and computers and not being outside

(01:15:43):
enough, not being in the... Fully agree.
Being able to go and sit in pubs and watch any game of football you want on
a Saturday no matter who you support you can watch them live how easy it is
to go away and watch your teams play,
kids grow up playing football managing FIFA thinking they've won the World Cup
they get a sense of achievement from that and believe that that somehow connects back to football.
I've seen all these things right back when I was at the

(01:16:05):
centre of excellence and I've seen a massive turn in their
attitudes and their mentalities when you work with them like it's like
I don't have to be here if it's raining tonight I don't have
to be here if it's raining on a Saturday and the pitch is muddy why would I
want to go play an all-boys pitch when I can go down Jets and watch Liverpool
play or Man United or Everton or Arsenal I don't need to do that this week and

(01:16:25):
that unfortunately whether people like it or not that is a major,
major issue and when you go back to it.
10, 12, 15 years ago, those teams not being able to put combis out.
Yeah. You know, and this was happening on a regular basis. It might be happening
to the smaller clubs, but you had bigger clubs saying, oh, that's a disgrace.
That shouldn't be happening. And then three or four years later,
then bigger clubs had the problem. Yeah. They didn't have the players and their clubs falling apart.

(01:16:47):
So it's been going on and I think it's society driven. I think it's just a sign
of everyone can have a lot more, a lot easier now.
Yeah. And you don't have to, when I grew up in football and,
you know, the older lot out there who maybe come before me, the football club
was at the centre of your life,
your week revolved around going training with your club, maybe once or twice
a week, and then on a Saturday you played, at the minute the game finished,

(01:17:09):
you went out with your mates, you just went into the clubhouse, you drank,
you carried on that night, had a drink, and that was your social life.
Now, isn't, and obviously, social factors have a massive part to play on that.
Drink driving now, which not being funny, years ago people would get in their
cars and drive after drinking.
20, 30 years ago, that can't happen anymore, and it doesn't happen,

(01:17:30):
or it certainly doesn't happen very much but.
Lads going in now were like I'll go in and have a quick can
of coke but then they dash off and so you don't get any social interaction with
other clubs and that has a massive effect on football I
think and so I just think now local football clubs
are not always at the centre of people's like social lives you'll get it in
the likes of maybe Russian you might get it in the likes of the appeals because

(01:17:53):
they're a lot more community driven it's then one sort of town one town yeah
yeah like Ramsey maybe a little bit but even Ramsey they've got four or five teams up north,
Ramsey I think Ramsey Ramsey and Ayr have their own sort of socials but then
you've got Ry Cobb in there as well of course you have and then you might have Kirk Michael,
they're all up that end of the island and you come into Douglas there's that

(01:18:13):
many clubs in Douglas now.
There's just something, there's a disconnect there. And we started getting it.
We started seeing it at Geordie's. No one would ever come back into your clubhouse.
The odd people might, like, you'd get like Rick Holton come in and have a drink
with you afterwards, old school. Come and sit and have a drink with you.
And it was good. And we'd be trying to say, well, lads, everyone go in and have
a drink after the game. You know, we'd be trying to drive that.
We do when we go away with FC Alleman now.

(01:18:35):
We're trying to get it back. But unfortunately, society and the way kids are
brought up now is so different.
And the amount of options they have is so different.
Yeah. We just have to accept. we are not the center of their lives anymore and
it's a struggle for me to accept because I've always been football mad and it's
always like the big thing in my life these kids that's not them anymore so when
you're trying to have a go at them about why aren't you training at all boys

(01:18:58):
or why are you not training with D&D or why are you training with Russian or Peel,
unfortunately a lot of these kids are like I don't have to because I'm not that
bothered you know you'll get kids who are but that weans as they get older get 16, 17, 18,
there's a massive test point there to stay in or not and a
lot stay in you've got lads who like with Washington Harbour I look

(01:19:18):
at the likes of Tim and Garvey like what a shining example of a kid he is a
lovely lad isn't he who loves his football and wants to just carry on you know
you'll get them but they used to be used to have 10 of them in every club do
you now I think they're like they come through and you get like one every now
and again and I personally think and it's my personal opinion.
Safeguarding's got a massive part to play in that where they upped it when you

(01:19:40):
couldn't, because you used to be able to play senior football at 14.
I played at 14, that's when I played there.
And integrate yourself with that senior set-up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I get Safeguarding, I get why it's there, and I go on about it quite a lot on
these podcasts, but it's not something you, you know, you won't ever change it again going forward.
No, no, no, we used to be there. I think it's that part that's sort of killed that kid's coming up.

(01:20:02):
Because if you're 14 and someone thought, you're playing for our combi on Saturday
you're not going home to play FIFA on Friday night you're going home getting
your head down getting your socks out first thing Saturday morning,
I've never been a computer kid so computing never bothered me
I just wanted to be outside playing football running around getting a
bit of history that's just what we did and I'm sure Craig was exactly the same
but like now I still think and I've spoken to loads of people in the game over

(01:20:27):
the years on the hour man that like there's still a case for me that have 14
year olds being able to play in senior football but but it might have to be
monitored differently.
So I think you could have a board of people that make a decision looking at
the key factors about size and things like that.
And I think you could have a sensible system in place there.
I'm not saying every kid when they get to 14 should be chucked in their hand on football.

(01:20:49):
You'll have kids that don't want him and they'll say, I don't want him.
And that's fine. But the ones that say, yeah, I want him.
I think there's factors you can look at that. And you go, yeah,
do you know what? That's okay. And you monitor it. And it is monitored.
I still think it should be happening because I think it would be a massive help
towards people not being out of field teams. because you'd have an injection
every year with maybe two or three hundred kids coming into local football.
And that's a massive amount of people.

(01:21:09):
And that's it. And but, then you'll come back to it.
You'll get them, the people that, the powers that be in England say,
no, it can't happen because of this and this and this. And you'll get all them things put on the way.
Well, if that's the case, and that's fine, don't then complain about participation
in football because you're putting the barriers in place. Don't put the barriers
and the problems in place.
Don't then say, well, why haven't we got people playing football?

(01:21:30):
Because that's one of the reasons.
100%. I've got, My eldest, like Connor, he's 40.
I think the thought of him going to play in men's football, that would scare
me a bit, to be fair. Yeah.
Imagine Paddy Horne still playing, and he fucking, no, make Paddy Horne next
thing. You're on the floor.
Paddy's done a Paddy. Yeah. Conor's an A.

(01:21:51):
Yeah. And you know what? When I started playing at 14, I was a little tiny.
I didn't have any weight on me. I was nippy, and I was skillful and all that.
But I was tiny, and I remember coming up against lads like Peter Tracy, who played at Old Boys.
They were the best rugby team in the island and I remember coming
up to him down on the far touch line and the ball come into
me and I controlled it and I seen him coming in to get me and I

(01:22:13):
just out of pure fear I popped the ball through his legs and jumped and he
slid underneath me and I ran us down the line and crossed it and we scored and
it was only about a minute into the game and my dad was stood behind me saying
oh well done son that's glass clapping and as I'm running back to the halfway
line he actually come up and grabbed me by the shirt and said if you ever do
that to me again I'll break your fucking legs son in a Scottish strong Scottish
accent and I spent the rest of the game trying not to get at the ball.

(01:22:35):
I was like, lads come and watch me and I'm thinking, I don't want the ball,
don't give it to me. But that's an education.
I spent the whole game running away from Peter and I was that scared of him.
I probably went past him three or four times in the game out of fear.
Just because I thought I'm going to take him out, I thought,
I just don't want him to hurt me.
But, and he was running around trying to hurt me. I got marked by Peter Roberts
for St Mary's, he called me. It's probably one of the worst football plays you've ever seen.

(01:22:56):
Right? But, he's running around after me, I could hear him breathing everywhere
the ball went and I could come and hear him. I could hear him breathing behind
me and all I kept thinking was, he's going to kill me.
You know, but that was like part of my education. But when I went away on trials
to England, because I was playing men's football and the lads I was trialing
with or training with at these professional clubs weren't playing men's football.
It gave me a massive advantage. Yeah. You know, I went out there and I thought,

(01:23:18):
well, I'm used to playing men, so this isn't going to scare me.
Yeah. You know, and then like, I was at Paul Rose at the time and Sam Kenny
was the manager and they were probably, them and Jordies were the best two teams
on the island at that given time.
And the players like you, Johnny Palmers and Brian Gartlands and John Gartlands
and Nicky Gerrard, Nicky Smith, Sam Kenny, they had a phenomenal group of players.
But I was training with them all the time.

(01:23:38):
And when I went to trial at Carlisle and Leeds and Stockport,
I was like, well, I'm only playing against young lads here now. again.
So I felt like I was going to step down a little bit and it massively helped
me. Now, we could help the best players on the island by trying to integrate
them into senior football in some capacity.
Yes, they need protected. I get that. But in terms of mental toughness,
it helps on a level you can't even explain what it can do for you.

(01:24:02):
And it is one of them. And I think that's a great point to sort of end the talking on.
We'll go on to the best part of all. And I know you've come into this,
you've walked into the clubhouse before and you said I'm going to grill you on this bit first
before I think it's a select seven so it's you're
both going to do it right it's your ultimate seven
aside Manx football and team right it's got

(01:24:23):
to have a goalkeeper so he can
be currently playing or he can be retired yeah you're allowed
three current players that are still playing every weekend or midweek if they're
ex-Isle of Man players and you've got to have three retired players that don't
play football anymore right okay and then a manager as well right I asked you
some questions let me get my because this will fucking take a lifetime.

(01:24:48):
I did mine today in about 30 seconds so I've done mine based on a good night
out after it so I'd have Max Thomas and Nets my free retired plays a beat a night out of a week.
Depends where you are through the list so I'd have
Max and Nets I'd have Mark Priest and old Peter Langridge then a lad who people
may or may not remember he sadly passed away a few years ago Danny Skillicorn

(01:25:10):
played a point unbelievable what I thought and then my three current I'd have
Frank Jones Jack McVay and Steve Whitley what a little kiss ass who manages it Sal Kenny,
just to keep us balanced during the game and then after it we're on
the pint he wouldn't be on the wing do you know what do you know what Craig
he can go home after the carnage this is the ninth episode of this podcast and

(01:25:31):
that's the quickest seven aside team I've ever seen you know he's clearly been
sat at work all day hasn't he just writing that he's gone I've took him out
I've deleted him I've put him in he's been texting Frank and Whitley going how much yeah how much,
I'd have to stay in there because I think he's just,
unbelievable two of them people in there cook his teeth from at times invite
him up for tea at the house so there's definitely definitely a load of going

(01:25:53):
on here what about jack mcveigh he doesn't cook for you he won't cook for anyone no michelle does it.
And there's your three blackjack would just be good crack after
one that would frankly do all the running but i i put
myself on the bench and then if they got a bit tired because they're similar
sizes i'm sure jack will
love that right did go on before i picked

(01:26:14):
this I've got a question to ask I'll be picking it right what size
is the pitch going to be is it going to be a full pitch because I used when
I first started playing football in the Allman you could play seven a
side down St John's seven a side in St John's in that great
pulley team or is it going to be playing like across the pitch
at the NFC in the business league style or is it going to be on a pitch like
St John's AstroTurf because it's going to massively affect what I do and then

(01:26:37):
the next question I need to know is is it about winning or just pure talented
players or is it about trying to win a tournament or are we just going to to
go for picking the most talented players you've played with in that time.
So, tell Dean, just full pitch seven. No, no, no. First one.
I need to know what we've achieved. First one, Deacon. I'll answer it.
I'll answer it quite simple.
Right, first one, full pitch seven aside at St. John's. Right, okay.

(01:27:00):
Back in the day. Change things massively then, go on. Okay. Yeah.
And the team is down to you.
You've said throughout this podcast, you and Bassey had a winning mentality
and you wanted to go out and win with talented players.
Right okay so you can choose the seven
most talented players that you
think would fit into that team right okay three of

(01:27:23):
them obviously have to be retired can't play for you anymore i might trip myself
up here so i'm going to say this is controversial right because i would have
two keepers for me you can only have one difficult yeah and i'm going to have
to pick one and i'm going to pick colin mcmullan just because i played with
colin john ward was absolutely there with with Maka in there.
Everyone says you can't separate them.
I'm going to go with Colt McMullen because he played in the Gretzland team when we won it in 98.

(01:27:47):
Yeah. So I'll go with Colt McMullen as a retired player and goalkeeper.
Okay. I'm going to go for someone at the back. I bet you no one's ever mentioned
Donny and he is the best defender I ever played with.
He would perform in the Alleman and he was sensational and he would perform
in the festival playing against pros.
He was one of the only players I ever seen that could physically live with the

(01:28:09):
pros in every department.
Not the best passer of the ball and the most talented but got by just by giving
it to other players when he got it is Ati Holzer he was unbelievable,
like he was unplayable at times and I seen him on pros good pros and they get
nothing out of him because he was so quick one of the quickest players I've
ever seen over the ground so I'm going to go for Ati Holzer right.

(01:28:31):
And I am going to go for Sam Kenney. Says itself, really. Sam was unbelievable.
Sam could do everything. Yeah. You know, he was feisty. He was an unbelievable football brain.
He was fit as a fiddle. He could literally do bits and everything.
So I'm going to put Sam Kenney in my team. So they would be the three that I
would put in there from retired people.

(01:28:52):
Your keeper can be anything, so you still need free outs. Oh,
I'm sorry. I can have one more. One more retired outfield player.
Yeah. and let me go through a few of the others first.
So I'm going to have Kieran McNutley in my team. Again, I could have Peter Langridge
and I could have Callum Moussey, but I just think on a full pitch,
Kieran McNutley will offer me more because Peckham was super fit, super talented.

(01:29:13):
He could play in midfield. He could come back and play as a defender if he needed to.
He literally could do anything. And in seven-a-side, I think,
on a full pitch, it's about fitness as well as talent. So I'm going to chuck him into the mix.
I'm going to put in, to the three here, I'm going to put in Nick Hurt as my
last well is he retiring I think well he comes on and plays doesn't he yeah,

(01:29:35):
you'd have to you'd have to include because he played for the Comby the other
week and I think he's going around Florida and he played in the cup final he
played in the I want to put Chris Bass in there junior yeah definitely putting
Chris Bass junior in there okay 100% I am.
So he goes in there how many have you up to now so you've got you've got Don
at his holes Alzo, Sam Kenny, Maka in goal.

(01:29:58):
Yes. And then you've done Pekka and Bassey Jr.
So you've got one retired player and one current player left. One retired player.
I'm going to say this right. Rick Alden and Rob Winkshaw, I'm not going to include
in this because they come out of pro football and they are by far the best players
I ever played with on the Alleman.
Yeah. They were so far ahead, it was embarrassing when they first came in.

(01:30:21):
But that's understandable. So I'm not going to put them in the Manx players.
Yep. Not because they're not good enough, because I just don't,
I always say this to everyone, they were different than everybody else.
So I'll leave them out. So I've got one more retired player to pick.
I'm going to pick Chris Higgins.
Fair enough. I'm going to put Higgy in there because he was unbelievable.
Like I seen him win Cubs Fathers for us on Mudbath, on the Mudbath pitch on

(01:30:43):
the ball where he went around about seven old boys players in the area,
put John Wood on his backside and walked around him and scored in the last minute of the game.
He was that good on his day. He's a phenomenal talent. So
I'm going to put Chris in as my last retired player and I'm going
to put Hurtie in as a still player right what have
I got left now that's it that's my team that's your team so my team would be
Ati Holzo well Macaroon Macaroon goals Ati Holzo yep Pekka Chris Bass Sam Kenny

(01:31:09):
yep Nick Hurt yep and it was who's your retired player trying to fucking think now.
Have you just said that? Yeah, you had Macker in there. I had Macker in there.
I had Sam Kenny and Atty Halsell. We'd probably play at the back.
Yeah. Even though Sam could play anywhere.
We'd play at the back. I had Nicker. Chris Higgins.
Chris Higgins. Yeah, Chris Higgins

(01:31:29):
and Pekka up front. So that would be Nicker and Bassey in midfield.
I'd have Sam Kenny and Atty Halsell at the back. Yeah.
Macker in goals. I'd probably put, you'd have Chris Higgins and Pekka.
Chris Higgins. And by the way, I've left out hundreds of people that I could have put in.
Johnny Myers in his pump. Yeah. When he was just come back to the All-Ireland,
I would most definitely have been in that team when he first came back to it

(01:31:51):
because he was unbelievable when he first returned.
So who manages it? So who manages it? And this is where I'm stuck between a
rock and a hard place. It's going to make it dead easy for me because I've tuned a bit of a couch.
Because Sam Kenny's playing in it, I'm not going to have him as manager.
But it was going to be between Bassey and Sam Kenny. And Bas is going to be
the manager because ultimately, CV-wise, Chris has got a slightly better CV,

(01:32:14):
but Sam did have a lot more clubs. Sam was successful at four or five different teams.
Chris was successful with Jordies and Neathman. But I was sat between a rock
and a hard place with the two of them.
Because I put Sam in my team, it gets me out of that one. So I can have Chris as manager.
And rightly so, by the way, because I don't think anyone can ever argue that
he's the most successful manager in the history of men's football ever.

(01:32:37):
Not just in the local football, but what he managed to achieve outside of it
with Alan Vannum. Yeah, and I forgot about Higgy.
It's mad. You see, that's what I mean. It's mad. That's what you get for being
too quick. Your message used to say, you're too fast. You're taking time a bit.
Higgy fucking, he'd drop the shoulder, he'd fucking turn inside out.
Do you know what? I do this, right? I do this, and I guarantee it.

(01:32:59):
I get every week after I do this with someone, right? They message me two days
later and they go, how the fuck have I missed him out?
How have I missed him out? And it's great because it gets you thinking about it again.
Listen, I just know that team of players are all super fit.
Every one of them is fit as a fit. they've all got pace they've all got skill
they all understand the game every single one of them play

(01:33:20):
so I think I would have a bit of everything involved in that team and I've missed
out hundreds I could have put in the likes of you Johnny Barners he
was sensational as like the season I was almost with him and what he'd done
was like unbelievable you know so there's players they're everywhere but that
particular team I've just picked I think we just shaded I've left out Calamarsi
and Lange like unbelievable players but again I'm saying on a full pitch I'm

(01:33:43):
like where the amount of running to do in the St.
John's Sevens I'm thinking probably the pair of them would turn up after a night
out and be flagging a little bit I was going to say Morrissey would be going
off after 10 minutes for a play wouldn't he yeah so yeah there's players everywhere
left out but I think that would be a decent team up there yeah no
right lads well that's the end of it it's been a fucking great chat it's been
a good catch up as you say good luck to FC Allemagne for the rest of the season

(01:34:05):
everything yous are doing as a club for the players and amongst football for
the community is fantastic,
keep up the good work and good luck, as I say.
Cheers, lads. All right? Yeah, cheers. Thanks, mate.
Music.

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