Former Acting Prime Minister Livni in a Webinar: The Israel-Hamas War: Background & Implications

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
I was a Minister of Foreign Affairs
and Justice Minister during uh the
second war in Lebanon in 206 and
during two military operation in Gaza I
believe in solving the is Palestinian
conflict based on two states for two
peoples even though it looks uh quite

(00:23):
difficult to do it now I was the chief
negotiator for peace between Israel and
the Palestinians and in the last two
rounds the Palestinian didn't say yes
but as you suggested there they didn't
give an answer at
all on October 7th I was on my way from

(00:43):
Milano Italy to cop again to participate
in a forum that madlin
Albright um established it calls the
madlin excess or foreign ministers that
we used to meet but when I was in the
report early morning of October 7th I

(01:03):
start getting the information including
uh a text message about a friend of mine
that was killed while defending his
community and I turned back to
Israel as an Israeli I was a child in
Six Days War and a teenager in yum kipur
War I was a minister during the intifa

(01:24):
when buses exploded in Israel and
participated in funerals of children but
when I came back home to Israel on
October 7th nothing can compare to this
to
anything it's not the number of people
that were killed that also but not

(01:45):
only it's uh the
atrocities the
cruelty they tortured people before
killing them a gang R uh killing people
from zero
range uh to those I'm I'm stating this
because I know that there are some

(02:06):
Massacre deniers and they do not trust
what Israel is saying so maybe I should
quote what secretary blink share with
the Congress about the family that they
killed the the the they gouch the eye of
the the
father cut the breast of the mother of
and uh amputed the the the girl leg and

(02:32):
uh cut the the fingers of the boy and
then they kill the family and start
eating from the family's refrigerator so
this is just one
example and now we have the families and
the babies that and and the children and
the men and women that were

(02:53):
kidnapped without seeing Red
Cross are probably one of uh
the women that was abducted gave birth
this
week and so so everything these are
really it's not just another round of

(03:14):
violence these are crimes against
humanity and the frustration not only
mind of every Israel is that just a
month later what we see in the streets
is
anti-Semitism uh a kind of understanding
what Hamas did like we are those that
enterer Gaza raped killed tortured

(03:35):
Palestinians and I'm not asking the
world as you said uh uh eron to to to
close your heart and Minds to the
situation of the Palestinian Gaza not at
all you say that these life are equal
value that's true
but there is no equal judgment not

(03:55):
morally not legally for those that are
looking for children and civilians to
kill and for an army that is using and
expressing the right of his country to
defend itself trying to act only against
terrorists while they are hiding among

(04:16):
civilians and make this job very
difficult and therefore Israel asked the
Palestinians to leave the places where
they are when Hamas is hiding trying to
avoid you to minimize the Civic
casualties now what I want to say to to
those that are listening to us that it
looks like you need to choose between

(04:36):
Israel and the Palestinians but this is
not the right
division on one side there are those in
Israel uh on the Palestinian side in the
International Community supporting
peace end of conflict freedom for the
Palestinians security for Israel and on

(04:58):
the other side
there are those that represent a
religious ideology I disagree with you
say they ideology is religious
jihadist I'm sure that they if I
according to my understanding they don't
want to control Gaza at all they just

(05:20):
want to be theond militia their ultimate
goal is to destroy Israel and if as you
say their goal is to repres presentent
the national interest of the
Palestinians so we have a bigger problem
than I thought because if the national
movement of the idea of the national
movement of Palestinian is what I hear

(05:41):
in the streets Palestine will be free
between the uh uh River and the Sea and
the meaning is full elimination of
Israel and establishing a state on on on
the ruins of the state of Israel so we
do have a bigger problem than we thought
so I do believe that on the Palestinian

(06:03):
side there are those that represent this
religious ideology
Hamas and other jihadist groups and on
the other hand there are those that are
representing the national solvable
conflict between Israel and the
Palestinian and this is the legitimate
PA so Hamas is an obstacle for peace and

(06:24):
therefore Heron thinking about the way
to turn uh this uh
uh into
hope uh or to take this opportunity
there is no hope for peace with Hamas I
hope that we can find another way but
not with Hamas that is
clear and uh because Hamas is an

(06:44):
obstacle for peace and it's also a huge
problem for the Palestinians in Gaza who
who deserve to live better
life I want also to express that the war
now against Hamas is not not just out of
rage and
revenge but this we have a strateg

(07:06):
strategic goal uh the US Administration
understands it g State understand it as
well even though they have uh they can
have problems in expressing it
directly but I want to to to pass
quickly also uh the history and the

(07:27):
facts because when I listen to those
criticizing now Israel it is based on
false understanding of History Short
History so let's Pi a bit I'll do it
shortly because it's not for you eron
not for Fus not for Ellie but maybe for
some of our
listeners we yes we are speaking about
this tiny Place between Jordan River

(07:49):
Mediterranean Sea the conflict did not
uh uh started with the establishment of
the state of Israel but the
establishment of the state of Israel was
part of the solution Accord according to
the United Nation that wanted to end an
ongoing Conflict by establishing two
State Israel is a Jewish State and an
Arab State the Jewish leadership

(08:11):
accepted it the Arabs denied attacked
Israel and at the end of uh
1948 um War uh Gaza remained uh By An
Egyptian Military control and the West
Bank was the West Bank of Jordan
controlled by Jordan until 67 when

(08:31):
Israel were again was against again
under attack and we occupied uh these uh
two places Gaza ship and and the West
Bank in the peace treaty between Egypt
and Jordan Egypt decided to give up Gaza
to Israel and as was said before they
don't want to take Gaza again

(08:54):
unfortunately I must say and in the
peace treaty between Israel and Jordan
uh Jordan gave up uh the West Bank uh to
Israel and then the national Palestinian
movement uh is uh demanding asking uh uh
for the establishment of a Palestinian
state that never

(09:17):
existed and the negotiations are based
since Oslo since 1993 based on the idea
of two entities two states hopefully
living side by side in p in security
this nation and conflict is difficult
enough we have sensitive issues we have
the refugees we have Jerusalem we need

(09:38):
to define the
borders I negotiated twice or maybe even
since since I listen to Hillary Clinton
reminding that uh uh Clinton that the H
her husband offered in in in 2000
Palestinian state to be
established uh this is what we offered
in 208 this this is what we offered uh

(10:00):
during the Obama Administration in
2014 and abuan didn't give an answer he
didn't say yes he didn't say no but
disappeared I'm not in a blame game but
just trying to put everything on the
table because these are the facts but
the most important fact is that this is

(10:20):
not connected to what Hamas is doing
because Hamas does not represent any
legitimate legitimate Palestinian
interest Asal Lebanon does not represent
any legitimate Lebanese interest both of
them are representing a completely uh a
different

(10:41):
interest now the most important fact is
that since 2005 there is no Israeli
occupation of Gaza Strip I was a
minister at the
time we
evacuated thousands of settlers that
most of them were born in Gaza street
but we decided to demolish the

(11:04):
settlements to approve these people to
take out our forces and for 20 years
there is no one Israeli soldier no one
settlement in Gaza strep and then there
were elections on the Palestinian side I
tried to convince at the time uh the
American Administration to deny uh the

(11:26):
participation of Hamas during this
election because I said that there is no
democracy in the
world that terrorist organization that
does not accept the rules of democracy
rules of flow rule of flws uh uh the the
the fact that the Monopoly of the use of
forces by the government and not by our

(11:47):
militias for
example but I got two different answers
the one was that well they are not going
to win the elections well they won and
the second one was look at kisb in
lebano now they they have this political
arm and therefore they will be contained
and few months later they attacked

(12:08):
Israel and so on so I think that uh and
and the the part the elections were
supervised by ndy so so there was a
place to say that it's not possible but
the day after Hamas won the elections
the quet including the UN us

(12:30):
Russia uh and the EU I think that maybe
this was the last decision that the US
and Russia Russia agreed upon said that
any Palestinian government can be
legitimate if they will accept the right
of Israel to exist renounce violence and
terrorism and accept or abide to Oslo

(12:51):
agreement the peace treaty between
Israel and the Palestinians and for 20
years Hamas does not willing to renounce
by violence and terrorism and I know for
some they are saying okay one side
terrorist is the other Freedom Fighter
but this is not the situation because if
the Palestinian wants freedom in Gaza

(13:12):
and I
wish uh uh that they
have the only way to do so is by
renounce violence and
terrorism because we don't Israel
doesn't want to control Gaza what is
called The Siege is because
they are continuing Hamas to infiltrate
to to to bring more and more weapon so

(13:34):
when we are speaking about uh the
humanitarian needs of the Palestinians
well maybe they don't have well they
have but they still have all these
Rockets and the tunnels that they built
under uh underneath Gaza the entire Gaza
Street for their own purposes and when
somebody of the leaders was uh was

(13:57):
um was uh um interviewed he said the
ters are not for the citizens it's for
us of the Palestinians not us so this is
the problem of the Palestinians as
well
so we have no other alternative

(14:21):
frankly we uh left Gaza Street hope that
I mean we were speaking about green
houses and we got green flag of Hamas in
in
return they start attacking uh
Israelis so at first we acted against
Hamas but not in a robust manner as this

(14:44):
uh
War hope that we got
deterence but it didn't
all we had another round and we reach a
kind of understanding of ceasefire and
yes on on October 6 there was
ceasefire until they decided to Massacre
to slaughter to do this uh uh horrific

(15:09):
things uh and therefore uh there is no
other alternative and the goals of this
were of course is to bring the hostages
back
home and I truly hope that uh this will
be sooner uh than later and to eliminate
Hamas