March 6, 2025 • 45 mins
Dan Hoard discusses a crucial offseason for the Bengals with draft guru Dane Brugler and NFL analyst Pete Prisco. Plus, a “Fun Facts” flashback with Sam Hubbard who announced his retirement this week.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, get everybody on Dan Hord and thanks for downloading
the Bengals Booth Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
The rest is still unwritten.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
On addition, as we discuss a crucial off season for
the Bengals with draft guru Dane Brugler from The Athletic
and NFL analyst Pete Prisco from CBS Sports. The Bengals
Booth Podcast is brought to you by pay Corps, Proud
to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber,
(00:31):
future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business
and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health,
the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is
the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's a
quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of
this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer
by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest
(00:55):
thing since. Sam Hubbard, the Bengals defensive end, announced his
retirement on Wednesday after a great seven year run with
his hometown team. The Bengals struck gold when they drafted
him in the third round in twenty eighteen. Sam was
a productive and durable player, a universally respected team leader
(01:16):
and a tremendous ambassador for the franchise, twice, being nominated
for the Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award
for his charitable efforts in the community. Sam is also
responsible for two of the most important plays in franchise history. First,
a red zone sack of Patrick Mahomes in the final
(01:37):
minute of regulation in the AFC Championship game that forced
Kansas City to settle for an overtime forcing field goal.
The Bengals then won the game in ot to advance
to the Super Bowl, and one year later, what I
would consider to be the most iconic play in Bengals history,
the fumble in the Jungle. Here's how those plays sounded
(01:59):
on the race, plus a memorable moment that happened ten
days before Christmas last year.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
On third and goal from.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
The nile, Mahomes catches the shotgun snap, retreats back to
the eighteen. Looking around in the end zone, nobody opened,
yet no pressure at all. Now Here comes the rush
Mahomes way back at.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
The twenty times they lose it at all.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
The Chiefs fall on it at the twenty six, and
this makes it a much more difficult field goal try.
It will be a forty four yarder with all sorts
of pressure on Harrison.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
Butker, I'll tell you what. They rushed three and dropped eight.
They blanketed everybody. Sam Hubbard forced the funnel.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Jane Tooney recovered it. Huber loss of seventeen.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
How about back to back snaps by Sam Hubbard. I
mean he makes the play on second down, makes the
play on third down. About the Moller High School house,
state product, local kid in just making huge.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Plays third down and goal. The line hand sticks the
ball out. The Bengals have the ball. They are running
it back, Sam Hubbard.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
We had blockers behind him, Hubbard of the Ravens forty,
the thirty, the twenty, the ten, the Bob touchdown Bengals
who Tyler Hunley tried to extend the ball over the
goal line.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
It got poked away.
Speaker 6 (03:25):
Sam Hubbard scooped it up and ran the length of
the field for a go ahead Bengals touchdown.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
He tried to pull at Trevor Lawrence and the Bengals
said no.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
They slapped it.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
Out of there.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Logan Wilson punched the ball out of the hands of
Tyler Huntley.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
And right into the hands of Sam Hubbard and boy
Logan Wilson others.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Everybody was swarming it at at.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
That football and Sam Hubbard says, I'll take it to
the house. And boy who threw the block for Sam
Hubbard down the football field his escorts service. Final block
was necessary and it was made for him.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Burrow fakes a handoff, throws a pass Sam.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
Hubbard fake with the catch, Saton touchdown Bengals.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Sam Hubbard raising.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
The football over his head and spiking at Gronk style
after the first catch of his NFL career.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Sam Hubbard started his career at Mowler High School.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
Is a tight end, Sam Hubbard is an athlete, Sam Hubbard.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
That's a great fingertip catch.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Sam actually suffered a season ending knee injury on that play,
so on the final snap of his NFL career, he
caught a touchdown pass from an old college buddy who
became one of his closest friends, Joe Burrow. It's kind
of like Ted Williams hitting a home run in his
final at bat. Coming up later on the podcast of
fun Facts Flashback, as Sam discusses the thrill of playing
(04:55):
for his hometown team. Now, let's get to my first guest.
If ESPN's mel Kiper was the first person to become
famous for being an NFL draft expert, the best guy
doing it now, in my opinion, is Dane Brugler from
The Athletic. His annual draft guide, The Beast, annually contains
more than four hundred in depth player profiles. I caught
(05:19):
up with Dane at the NFL Scouting Combine dayan. The
Bengals need to address their defensive line. I keep hearing
from various draft gurus, and I have you at the
top of the list that it's a good defensive line draft.
Speaker 7 (05:35):
Is that the case, There's no doubt, and I think
it's true in the first round, it's true once you
get to Day two and then even into Day three,
both on the edge and on the interior. So and
there's different styles, different types, different sizes. Like I think
there is a little bit of everything depending on what
you really want. If you're looking for more of the
proven production, you know, there's that guy in this draft.
Speaker 8 (05:58):
If you want someone.
Speaker 7 (05:59):
That's got all the time cools, that's in this draft
as well. So I think it depends on It'll be interesting.
Every team's going to stack their boards a little bit
differently with this defensive line class, where some teams are
gonna look at the promise of a Michel Williams from
Georgia and say they they don't make them like that
very often, and so let's get that, let's coach him up,
(06:19):
and we've got something where other teams might look at
it and say.
Speaker 8 (06:23):
You know, like that, we like him.
Speaker 7 (06:24):
That's a little rich for us because he's a little
bit of a project. He's a little bit more of
an idea than a polished player at this point. So
I think teams are going to be all over the
map with how they stack these the defensive linemen this year.
And part of it is because of what I just said.
There's so many of them, there's so many different types.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Glad you mentioned Williams because on your first mock draft
you had Cincinnati selecting him number seventeen overall, so obviously
would be a good match. They need somebody to rush
the quarterback other than Trey Hendrickson, and clearly you think
there's a chance he'll be there at seventeen.
Speaker 8 (06:56):
Yeah, I mean, he could go top ten.
Speaker 7 (06:58):
I wouldn't be surprised, because again, he's just a freaky,
freaky dude. But if he did fall a little bit
into the mid first, I think that that would make sense.
And I don't want to make it sound like he's
a true project that he's not going to see the
field right away, because I think obviously Bengals fans they
want some help right away. They don't want someone to
have to sit. And you know, they've seen that from
(07:18):
a few other draft picks recently, where you know, they
want someone that's going to be able to come in
and impact the team, and I think Became Williams could
do that.
Speaker 8 (07:24):
He just he was hurt. He was banged up this year.
Speaker 7 (07:26):
You know, he the ankle injury played him throughout the
entire year. But I would say, just watch the Texas tape.
Watch what he does against a pretty good offensive line,
and you see the talent and it's not just I'm bigger,
longer than you.
Speaker 8 (07:40):
I'm just it's not just quicker than you.
Speaker 7 (07:42):
He showed a better understanding this year of you know,
using the length of his advantage. So he's leveraging the
point of attack, plays very well against the run, different
euro steps and the ways that he can win the corner.
So he's you know there's progression there. It's not just
a ball of clay that you're trying to mold into something.
(08:03):
So I think with Michel Williams, it's a little bit
of both, where you have a guy who's gonna come
in and help out right away as a part of
that rotation, but also someone that you'll love the upside
and say, yeah, he's good now, but he has a
chance to be truly a difference maker down the road.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
We're talking draft with Dame Bugler from the Athletic let's
focus in on the defensive tackles a little bit. I
assume Mason Graham will be long gone by the time
the Bengals select, even if they had thoughts of trading up.
But let's talk about some of the other guys that
could be there. Walter Nolan from Ole miss Tyleek Williams
from Ohio State, Kenneth Grant from Michigan, Derek Harmon from
(08:43):
Oregon who stands out in that group from guys that
you think would have a chance to be there at seventeen.
Speaker 7 (08:50):
I really like Derek Harmon, you know, Michigan State transfer
went to Oregon. He's he's really disruptive. I mean you
think about interior pressure. Nobody pressured created more pressure from
the interior of the defensive line this year in college
football than Derek Harmon, and that translates last year, the
(09:11):
guy that did that the most was Byron Murphy and
he was the first defensive tackle drafted last year. I think,
what's sixteen overall by the Seahawks. So Harmon is kind
of in that, in that mold where he can disrupt
what the offense wants to do, and he does it
with power. He can win with his quickness through the gaps.
You know, there's there's a lot to like there with Harmon,
(09:32):
and especially as a guy that's still figuring things out,
another guy that you know, he's not a finished product
by any means, but he's still able to be productive
with what he knows right now. So I really like
Derek Carmon in that mix. I'm a big Tyley Williams
fan too, especially against a run. He's one of the
best run defending defensive tackles in his class, and he
doesn't necessarily look like it, you know, like he doesn't
look like a hulking nose tackle, but he's so good
(09:54):
with the stack shed I'm not going to lose the runner,
which he's so good with his eye.
Speaker 8 (10:01):
And you know there's a lot of those guys in
this drive.
Speaker 7 (10:03):
And Alfred Collins from Texas I would throw in that
mix as well. He's gigantic and he's six five over
six five thirty five inch arms and he's another one
that controls the point of attack and he's going to
good luck running at him because he is going to
clog things up, just like you know, Tallier Williams does
the same thing. TALLI Williams a little bit smaller, has
better range. Walter Nolan, he's your one gap penetrator, classic,
(10:27):
gonna win with quickness. Some stuff that he's you know,
they need to figure out with him, just making sure
they get the best version of him. It's, you know,
the nicest way to say it, but you know, he's
there's a lot to like about him because again he
can create that interior disruption and it's it's harder to
find those guys.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Let's move to edge guys that could be there.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Mike Green from Marshall, Shamar Stewart from Texas A and
m James Pierce from Tennessee. The Boston College Kid as
a root as a. I don't know how much print
out you can tell me, but in any case, how
about that group and and how you feel about them?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (11:02):
As a rock who is Yeah, he's he's a lot
of fun to watch. He's he's longer, like he doesn't
look very big, but he's really long, and he uses
that well. He's a two way go guy where he
can win with speed, but he can also, uh you know,
win with counters inside.
Speaker 8 (11:17):
He can go right at you and and go speed
to power.
Speaker 7 (11:21):
As a rock who can win in different ways, and
I think that's you know, the the production really stands out.
So you know, teams draft trades over production, but when
you have both, it's like, okay, that's even better. And
that's the same thing with Mike Green. Mike Green leadon
FBS and sacks this year. I think the biggest knock
on him will be he did it against Sunbelt competition,
(11:41):
you know, playing up Marshall and playing that schedule.
Speaker 8 (11:43):
But you throw onto Ohio State tape and you see
him win.
Speaker 7 (11:46):
So his game is built all on violence and play speed.
I just NonStop and versus the run and versus pass.
So Mike Green is a fun player. Yeah, with James Pierce.
He's he's still very much learning. I think he is
a guy that the talent is tremendous, but you need
(12:06):
to figure out, Okay, what makes him tick? How long
does it take before we get him to a point
where you know, we trust him setting an edge, you know,
being a true three down player. But the talent is
so exceptional that he still is very much and it
has a chance to go top twenty. So he's gonna
be one of the teams really spend a lot of
(12:28):
time with to figure him out.
Speaker 8 (12:31):
What was the fourth one?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You said, Stewart from Texas, I am.
Speaker 8 (12:34):
That's just wait till he works out today.
Speaker 7 (12:37):
He's the freakiest of the freaks, two six and eighty
pounds and I mean maybe runs in the four fives.
Speaker 8 (12:45):
It's gonna be crazy.
Speaker 7 (12:46):
I think his ten yards split, like his burst is
so great, the ten yard split could be in the
one fives. And to put that in the context, Von
Miller is a one five to nine ten yards split,
so wouldn't be shocked at all. I mentioned trades over
product Schmar Stewart, I want to have sacks this year.
Speaker 8 (13:02):
But when you watch.
Speaker 7 (13:03):
His film, you're like, Okay, he's getting home like he's
he's winning.
Speaker 8 (13:08):
He actually led Texas a and.
Speaker 7 (13:09):
Him and pressures, so even though he was farther down
the list on sacks, he led the team in pressure.
So he is getting there. He just needs to be
a better finisher. And ideally, yes, you want him to
get the sacks. But if I'm making the quarterback move
his feet, I'm doing my job. You know, I'm creating
that disruption. And so Schmart Stewart, I think I think
he was number eight on my top one hundred. Like
I'm already I'm already factoring in the fact that he's
(13:31):
a freak athlete, and I think I'll show it here
at the combine. And you know, the lack of reduction
isn't ideal, but I'm not as much worried about it
as other people are.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Dan Brugler is our guest. His draft guide, the beast
that you can get if you are a subscriber to
The Athletic is unlike anything else for people that are
interested in the draft. It is really must reading if
you were interested in the players that the Bengals are
going to be looking at in the draft this year.
The Bengals are in the market for a guard. I'd
be surprised if they took one in the first round.
(14:02):
It's not out of the question. They've done it once
before with Kevin Zeitler, but that's the only time in
franchise history they've taken a guard in round one. Can
you give me a Day two and a Day three
guard or a couple of them that you like?
Speaker 7 (14:17):
Yeah, I think on Day two Tate Ratlie from from
Georgia's he fits the bill. He's ready to go strong
at the point of attack, he can win with torque.
Speaker 8 (14:27):
And I really Miles Fraser from LSU. Both these guys
are right guards.
Speaker 7 (14:32):
Fraser he's maybe the nastiest lineman in this draft. You
can make that argument where the competitive toughness is off
the charts. Maybe not the best athlete of the group,
but he's not deficient in that area and he wins with.
Speaker 8 (14:46):
Just the physicality, the competitiveness.
Speaker 7 (14:49):
And so Miles Fraser, he had a good week at
the Senior Bowl kind of helped himself as well. He's
gonna be right there in that Day two mix as well.
It's a good, pretty good guard group. A couple will
go in the first round. Tyler Booker and I think.
Speaker 8 (15:03):
Kelvin Banks from Texas is a guard.
Speaker 7 (15:05):
And then on day two it's there's gonna be more
than a handful of names that I think will be
in play for the Bengals.
Speaker 8 (15:11):
And on day three Anthony Belton from Enci State.
Speaker 7 (15:15):
He's a college left tackle who I think is going
to be better moved inside. Gigantic guy, mammoth guy, and
getting him away from having to play on an island,
I think will help him and just help him with
his timing, with a setup, the ability to use his hands.
But I think Anthey Belton for you know, fourth fifth round,
he would make.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Some soundse Have you studied Luke Candra from the University
of Cincinnati as Cincinnati kid as a possible third a
third day guard prospect, Yeah.
Speaker 7 (15:43):
No doubt, And I think he should do pretty well
for himself here. Like I, not the best athlete, but
a good athlete. And you know, seeing his background by
Louisville and then going to Cincinnati, you know he's he's
played a lot of football. You know, he's a experienced guy,
and you know, I was impressed with him this year.
Speaker 8 (16:02):
I think he's he's a guy that technically is a.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
Further along than some of these other players and might
give you a little bit of versatility on the interior.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Let's talk tight ends.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
It sounds like people are enthused about this group. The
Bengals have Mike Kasicki as a free agent, not sure
if he'll be back. Unfortunately, Eric All, who is so
impressive before he got hurt last year, is likely to
miss the entire season. What about this tight end group
and some of the guys you like is loaded?
Speaker 7 (16:30):
Absolutely, And if you want to go that direction in
the first round, you know, to Tyler Warren or Colson Lovelin,
are they still available for you in the first Possibly,
But it's not like it's you know, you're worried if
they're not. Because on Day two, Mason Taylor from LSU,
Elijah Royo from Miami, I'm a big fan of Gunner
(16:50):
Helm from Texas. I think that, you know, that'd be
a nice fit on day two in the second round
for the Bengals. He can be kind of that mismatched
weapon where yeah he'll block a little bit, but his
ability to win down the field at the catch point.
He's a good athlete. He stands out and and then
even in the Day three there's name. So I think
this is a tight end class that it's it's good
(17:12):
in the first round with those top two guys, but
then it stretches.
Speaker 8 (17:15):
Day two, day three.
Speaker 7 (17:17):
Plenty of guys that you see can or can come
in and compete for jobs and try to make something.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
A year ago, at this time, I was asking you
about offensive tackles. The Bengals obviously took one an a
Marius Mims.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I believe your quote.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
At the time was looks like he was built in
a lab to play right tackle.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
What'd you think of his play as a rookie.
Speaker 7 (17:36):
Yeah, you know, and maybe even a little bit better
than I expected, because he was, you know, he had
missed so much time with the injury.
Speaker 8 (17:45):
You know, he was so good the year before.
Speaker 7 (17:47):
Against Ohio State in that playoff game, and it was
just like, oh wow, this guy is for real. And
then he missed time the next year because of the
ankle injury, and so you just weren't sure, like you
knew the size, strength, the ability, but just mindset wise,
where was he going to be?
Speaker 8 (18:03):
Technique wise? Where would he be?
Speaker 7 (18:05):
And I thought he was even a little bit He's
still raw in areas, still green in areas but I
thought he was further along than what most people expected,
and he held his own for a good chunk of
when he was out there, which was awesome to see,
especially you know, in the AFC North. So I think
if you're a Bengals fan, you have to be encouraged
by the what you saw in year one and then
(18:26):
what's to come in year two.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
On the flip side, there were concerns character wise with
Jermaine Burton.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
The Bengals rolled the.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Dice in the third round, at least so far, it
hasn't worked out when that happens.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Do you think that a team is really.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Reluctant to take any risks in the near future.
Speaker 7 (18:46):
Well, the Bengals haven't been scared off of those guys,
So I don't you know, you have to have a
process when you're talking about you know, because all these
guys aren't choir boys, you know, and that doesn't mean
you don't draft them.
Speaker 9 (19:00):
You know.
Speaker 7 (19:01):
There have been plenty of guys with issues that have
turned out to be really solid pros and haven't been
issues behind the scenes, and so you just have to
understand what makes him tick, you know, how big is
this an issue that's gonna come with them, or is
this something where we give him structure, we give him
the support that he needs. All of a sudden, you know,
(19:22):
we have a what's a locker room, like we have
the veteran locker room that's gonna be able to take
him under their wing.
Speaker 8 (19:28):
So every case is different.
Speaker 7 (19:29):
You know, I don't want to paint a broad brush
because every case is so unique, and it no different
than last year with Burton. You know, there the character
was definitely a question mark and a lot of teams.
He was off the board for a lot of teams
and Bengals rolled the dice and.
Speaker 8 (19:46):
You know it didn't work out.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
But you know, you don't you know, you're not throwing
dirt on the on the coffin just yet.
Speaker 8 (19:51):
You know, we'll see.
Speaker 7 (19:54):
They have made it known exactly where they stand with
them and what they need to see from him if
you want to stay on the roster. And so hopefully
this is kind of the wake up call and say,
all right, we'll be better this year.
Speaker 8 (20:06):
We'll show improvement.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Your description of the process was perfect for what the
Bengals were thinking of with Jermaine Burton.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
A group of hard working, talented players like Jamar Chase
and t Higgins.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
They thought that the group and the coach would elevate
him and unfortunately, at least there's a rookie, it didn't
pan out.
Speaker 7 (20:25):
Yeah, and that's why the draft is always going to
be more of an earth than a science. You know,
you can't you can like the fact that he had
he struggled is not a huge surprise because of the
warning signs and the red flags. But at the same time,
you know, Devandre Sweat was had all these types of
issues and the Titans shocked a lot of people and
(20:46):
they drafted him top forty. Still, you know that some
teams took him off the board. Some team said, well,
maybe if he's there in the third or the fourth,
Titan said, you know, no, we're going to take a
chance here. And Sweat was awesome as a rookie, and
at least at this point, nothing's popped up, you know,
as being an issue for him. So you know, there's
examples on both sides of guys that had some red
(21:06):
flags character wise who were able to mature and work out.
And I mean your point is I think dead on.
When you drop the player like that, you feel like,
all right, we're bringing him to a wide receiver room
that has some proven guys that you know are prime
examples of Hey, if I have the talent, if I
work and I do what's needed of me was asked
(21:26):
to me, and I listened to the coaching, maybe I could.
Speaker 8 (21:28):
Be on their level someday.
Speaker 7 (21:30):
And so I think you understand the reasoning, but you
also understand maybe why it hasn't worked out yet.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Visiting with Dame Brugler from the Athletic I mentioned defensive tackles,
defensive ends, guards, and tight ends.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Let's talk running back.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Chase Brown is emerging as perfect fit for the Bengals offense,
but we don't know about the future of Zach Moss.
I suspect they're probably going to add to that group
at some point. What do you think about guys after
round one? And they wouldn't take one that early, but
day two, Day three, at running.
Speaker 8 (22:04):
Back, it's a loaded position this year.
Speaker 7 (22:06):
I mean, you you feel really good about who's gonna
be available round two, round three, round four. I think
I gave draft well grades to thirty two running backs.
I mean, there's just a lot of them, and they're
gonna go. They're all probably gonna go later than they should,
you know, just because there's only so many teams that
are gonna consider a running back in a second round
or the third round, and so it just pushes everybody
back a little bit. But you know, it depends what
(22:27):
type of runner they want. They want, you know, someone
that can come in and be a more of a
three down guy, or not three but like a third
down type of back. Then you're looking at like a
LeQuinn Allen out of Syracuse, who is a really good
pass catcher, He blocks well, he can play on special teams.
Speaker 8 (22:43):
If you want someone that's.
Speaker 7 (22:44):
More of an early down guy, like a Damien Martinez
from Miami who is gonna run with power and violence
and try to run over you, that would fit. So
there's just there's so many running backs in his class
that I think would fit my One of my favorites
probably around three for the Bengals, Jordan James from Oregon,
who is.
Speaker 8 (23:03):
Not a home run hitter, but he's going to lead
the league of doubles.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
You know.
Speaker 7 (23:07):
He's that type of guy where thirty five point six
percent of his carries last year resulted in a first
down or a touchdown, so he might not rip off
a sixty yarder, but he's going to get six consistently,
and so I think Jordan James, he's going to be
a steal at wherever the third round, fourth round Rover
ends up going.
Speaker 8 (23:28):
He's one of my favorite backs this year.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
There's another since he Cincinnati kid at the combine, Corey Kiner.
He started his college career at LSU, wound up back
home in Cincinnati, Cincinnati high school kid. Is he one
of your running backs with a draftable great?
Speaker 7 (23:41):
Yeah, Roger Bacon, right, Yeah, Yeah, he's he's honestly, he's
right on the cusp. He's like, I could see why
he would go in the sixth, seventh round, or I
could see why he'd be a PFA.
Speaker 8 (23:52):
He's one of the borderline guys. But you know he's here.
Speaker 7 (23:55):
You know he's he was at the Shrine Bowl too,
got you to see him there. He'll be here at
the combine a chance to you know, is he gonna
be a.
Speaker 8 (24:02):
Four to four guy, four or five guy in the
four yeard dash.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
You'll have a chance to kind of make his statement
why he should be drafted. And it's tough class because
it's so loaded, so many names, so anything you do
to stand out.
Speaker 8 (24:13):
That'll be key for these guys.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
We've got a couple more minutes with Dame Brugler. The
Bengals only have six picks. I think they would love
to trade down at some point to get more.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
What would be a good time to do.
Speaker 7 (24:25):
That, Yeah, and I think it's you have to see
ow the first what sixteen picks play out in the
first round.
Speaker 8 (24:31):
If they would do that, entertain that in the first round.
Speaker 7 (24:34):
This is also a draft where I'm just I'm not
confident how many teams are gonna want to trade up,
you know, like you have to have a dance partner
in order to get those extra picks, and in this class,
I'm just not sold that. You know, we see trades
every year, so it's not like we're not going to
have any trades. Of course we will, but I'm not
sure that the phone will be ringing maybe as much
as in past years.
Speaker 8 (24:55):
And it's interesting.
Speaker 7 (24:56):
Because there's I think players thirteen team to forty five
in this draft. Like there's for one team, a player
might be fifteen. That same player might be fifty for
a different team. I think the grades are very similar
in that range, which means the boards are going to
look wildly different, and so I don't know that we'll
have teams maybe clamoring the hey, we got to go
(25:16):
up and get this guy.
Speaker 8 (25:17):
We have a trade up.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
They might be feel fine saying and we probably like
more than other people, will stay put and be able
to get our guys. So ideally, yeah, I think that
makes sense. You trade back, you get an extra third
round pick, fourth round pick. You know, those are so
valuable in terms of filling out your roster and adding depth.
I just think it might be a little bit tougher
to do that this year.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Final question, Really appreciate your time. We assume the Bengals
are going to have one of the top offenses in
the NFL. As long as you've got a healthy Joe Burrow,
Jamar Chase, et cetera, you should be able to score points.
They didn't make the playoffs because their defense wasn't good enough.
Between the draft and what they might be able to
do in free agency, can they improve the defense enough
(25:58):
in one year to be back in the is a
Super Bowl contender?
Speaker 8 (26:02):
There's no doubt because the offense is that good.
Speaker 7 (26:04):
I mean, you don't have to be tremendous on defense
for this team to make the playoffs, you have to
be passable, you have to be average, and I think
they can get there. It's just, yeah, you have to
make a few key decisions, and it's getting better on
the defensive line. It's getting better on the back end
(26:24):
and being more consistent the linebacker level.
Speaker 8 (26:27):
And I'm not.
Speaker 7 (26:28):
Saying it's easy to do that, but I think it's
definitely possible that they can get there this offseason through
the draft, making some key moves in free agency, as
long as you have borrow quarterback and the offense that
they have, because it's not like they went five and
twelve this year.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
They were right there knocking on the door of the playoffs.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
So you make a few key adjustments on defense and
get close to average, I think they'll be right back
in the mix and have a chance to knock down
that door.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I enjoy coming to the Combine every year, and one
of the biggest reasons is the opportunity to pick your brain.
Thank you so much for the time. And I can't
wait for the beast.
Speaker 8 (27:06):
Any Tom can't wait.
Speaker 7 (27:07):
I look forward to it too. It's like, Okay, I know,
I gotta talk to Dan. That's part of my process
of coming to the combine every year.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
By the way, since our conversation, Dane has come out
with a new mock draft. Michel Williams, the edge rusher
he had going to the Bengals in his first mock
was gone this time around, going to San Francisco at
number eleven Overall. Dane now has Cincinnati selecting Michigan cornerback
Will Johnson with a seventeenth pick. Johnson is generally considered
(27:37):
to be one of the top two cornerbacks in this draft,
along with Heisman Trophy winner Travis Hunter, the cornerback slash
wide receiver. The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you
by pay Corps, proud to be the Bengals official HR
software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed
to elevate your home, business, and community to a new level,
(27:59):
and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans.
Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals.
Up next, a national NFL reporter who is never shy
about expressing his opinions. Great to catch up at the
combine with Pete Prisco from CBS Sports. Duke Tobin spoke
(28:20):
to the media on Tuesday, he referred to the Bengals
as quote a championship caliber team. They missed the playoffs
the last couple of years. Do you agree with Duke?
Are the Bengals a championship caliber team or close to it?
Speaker 9 (28:32):
Well, they can be a championship caliber offense. I wouldn't
call their defense a championship caliber defense.
Speaker 10 (28:36):
So they have work to.
Speaker 11 (28:37):
Do on that side of the ball.
Speaker 9 (28:38):
But obviously, when Joe Burrow's playing like he's playing, they're
going to stay in a lot of games and win
a lot of games.
Speaker 10 (28:44):
But they have to fix that defense.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Is it fixable in one off season between the draft
and whatever room they have left over in free agency
after they try to extend t Higgins, Jamar Chase, and
Trey Hendrickson, If they can do.
Speaker 9 (28:56):
It well, I think that's the biggest challenge first, and look,
I would do everything I could to try and keep all.
Speaker 11 (29:00):
Three of those players.
Speaker 9 (29:01):
I think if you take Higgins out of the lineup,
it changes the dynamic of the offense. If you take
Hendris out of the lineup, it changes the defense in
a big way. So that's number one priority for me.
And then because you can only there's only so many
stars that you could have, and if you have those guys,
you have stars.
Speaker 10 (29:16):
So I would say, get those.
Speaker 9 (29:18):
Guys signed, then use the draft to fix the try
and fix the defense, and whatever money you have left over,
depending on how you structure the contracts, maybe aut.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
A guy in free agency, Pete.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
I think a year ago, a lot of people, myself included, said,
all right, T Higgins will be a Bengal for one
more year in the franchise tag. It's tough to pay
two receivers that kind of money. They'll move on after that. Then,
with about five weeks to go in the season, Joe
Burrow very publicly said, we need to do it. I
think we can do it, and it changed to a
lot of people's opinion, including my own. Did Joe Burrow's
(29:49):
talk of the importance of keeping both change your opinion
on the subject at all?
Speaker 10 (29:54):
You know what changed my opinion on it is the.
Speaker 9 (29:56):
Way they play together, and when one's not there, it's different.
It's Higgins adds a different dimension of the offense. You know,
when you have Chase and you don't have Higgins, it's
not the same offense.
Speaker 10 (30:05):
So I think that's what Joe Burrow.
Speaker 9 (30:07):
Came out and said it, and that's I kind of
changed my mind, and not based on what he said,
just on what I saw when they're on the field together.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Trey Hendrickson has led the NFL led the NFL in
sacks with seventeen and a half this year. He also
had seventeen and a half the year before. He's got
one year left on his deal. As you've already said,
you think the Bengals should try to extend him. Do
you view Trey as one of the best overall defensive
ends in the league or just an elite pass rusher.
Speaker 9 (30:34):
No, He's one of the best overall defensive ends in
the league, and for whatever reason, he doesn't get the
credit he deserves for being such a really good player
and he plays hard all the time. Yeah, I think
he's a great player. I think they have to do
everything they can to extend him, get that contract done,
make him the priority on defense.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
The Bengals have the seventeenth pick in the first round.
I think most people would consider defensive line to be
their biggest need. Keep hearing from Draft Guru's great year.
If you need a defensive lineman, is that your belief?
Speaker 10 (31:06):
I think it's a great.
Speaker 9 (31:07):
Year for interior defensive lineman, which they you know, they
could use a big body in there.
Speaker 10 (31:11):
And and yeah, you could.
Speaker 11 (31:12):
Get a guy like Grant from Michigan down there.
Speaker 9 (31:14):
I think he'd be a possibility, but they you know,
it's it's funny because how cyclical this league is. Everybody
watched the Eagles and they win the Super Bowl? And
how do they win the Super Bowl with the great
offensive line and the great defensive line and a defensive
line that can get after the quarterback and have a
dominant interior player like Carter and then build it around
him and then they're a great offensive line.
Speaker 11 (31:35):
So now what's everybody trying to do?
Speaker 9 (31:36):
Look for interior defensive linemen and great offensive lineman.
Speaker 11 (31:39):
So yeah, they can get a guy at that spot.
In this draft.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
They probably need a guard. They probably need a tight end.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Are those guys out there in this draft?
Speaker 9 (31:49):
The tight end class is actually pretty good. There are
some guards, but I think there are some guards in
free agency, veteran guys that might not cost a lot
of money that you can plug in and play for
a year or two. You know, Daniels from Pittsburgh, he's
coming off an injury, but a good player, relatively young.
You might be able to Will Fries from Indianapolis.
Speaker 11 (32:09):
You know, relatively young coming off an injury.
Speaker 9 (32:11):
Maybe you get those guys on a team friendly deal
and plug them in and play.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Pete Prisco is our guest.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Any thoughts on the hiring of l Golden, bringing him
back from Notre Dame, the former linebackers coach, to be
their defensive coordinator following Luanna Roumo.
Speaker 11 (32:26):
Yeah, I think it needed a fresh set of eyes
over there.
Speaker 9 (32:29):
It kind of got a little stale, I think, and
sometimes when it gets that way, players kind of tune
it out, and so you get a new guy in there.
He's been there, but you get a new guy calling
the defense, and I think that changes the outlook as
a unit.
Speaker 11 (32:42):
So yeah, I think that's a good move on their part.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
The Bengals were four and eight with five games to go,
ran the table, needed a little help on the final
Sunday to get into the playoffs, and didn't get it
when Denver beat Kansas City.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Were you of the belief that had they.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Snuck in, they were going to be a problem for
other teams in the AFA?
Speaker 9 (33:00):
I said for the last four weeks of the season,
nobody wants to see the Bengals in Everybody in the
AFC was rooting against the Bengals getting.
Speaker 11 (33:08):
Into the playoffs.
Speaker 9 (33:09):
They really were because Joe Burrow is Joe Burrow. He's
so dangerous, that offense is so dynamic. Nobody wanted to
see them in the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Here at the combine where everybody's evaluating prospects, and that
generally begins with quarterbacks. Has Joe kind of become the
benchmark in how you evaluate some of these prospects coming along.
Speaker 9 (33:28):
Well, it's interesting because he was such a late bloomer,
you know, and then exploded that last year and everybody said, well,
where'd he come from? Well, where he came from. He
should have been playing probably before that. That's where he
came from. Joe Burrow makes it look so easy, and
we always look for quarterbacks to make it look easy.
You know who else made it look easy? Jayden Daniels
makes it look easy.
Speaker 11 (33:49):
He should have been the number one pick last year.
Speaker 10 (33:51):
I thought he was the best quarterback in the draft
last year. So we got to look at these guys who.
Speaker 9 (33:54):
Makes it look easy And the answer to that is
neither one of them. At the top two and that's
always a concern to me. You know, there's a lot
to like about camp Mord. He can whip it around,
but doesn't make it look easy. Shador Sanders doesn't make
it look easy. So I always gauge my quarterback play
by who makes it look easy.
Speaker 10 (34:12):
Joe Burrow came out. He made it look easy. He
makes it look easy.
Speaker 9 (34:14):
Now it's almost like they're you know, like what Joe cool,
He's cool doing it.
Speaker 11 (34:18):
Jay Daniels is the same way.
Speaker 10 (34:20):
That's what I look for my quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
It's really interesting you would say that because I chatted
with Greg Cosell earlier today and he was talking about
the same thing, and he shared an anecdote that Kurt
Warner said, that is the best compliment a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Can receive because it's so hard.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
If somebody tells you you make it look easy, that
is the kindest thing you can say to a quarterback.
Speaker 10 (34:43):
And indeed it is.
Speaker 11 (34:44):
And Kurt Warner made it look easy at times.
Speaker 10 (34:45):
So he knows what that's like.
Speaker 9 (34:47):
But yeah, I think you know, Bengal fans and I
know there was a lot of concern about the defense
and everything, but you have that guy throwing the football around.
Speaker 11 (34:53):
If he's healthy, you're going to be in the division race.
Speaker 9 (34:56):
You're going to be considered a threat in the AMC
and with that, which is why I think it's important
to keep t Higgins. You are always going to be
in games because teams can't put you away.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
The Bengals had a long stretch of successful drafts that
really fueled that stretch of five straight years where they
made the playoffs under Marvin Lewis. In recent years, it's
been a little more hit and miss. I think last
year they actually did pretty well, but there were some
drafts before that that haven't been all that productive. Is
that just the nature of the draft or is there
anything about what Cincinnati has done in recent years that's
(35:30):
been a bit of a red flag for you?
Speaker 9 (35:31):
Well, I think one of the things that they've done
a little bit of is you chase your mistakes. Sometimes
in defensive line, they've kind of chased their mistakes.
Speaker 11 (35:38):
A little bit.
Speaker 9 (35:39):
When you chase your mistakes, you tend to overdraft the position.
Maybe in some of those scenarios, they've overdrafted some of
those guys.
Speaker 11 (35:45):
So where are they right now? They're still looking for
some of those guys.
Speaker 10 (35:48):
So I think that gets teams. That catches up with
you a little bit.
Speaker 9 (35:52):
If you make a mistake, you're apt to go back
and try and fill it, and then you overdraft the
guy maybe you know a rounder or you know fifteen
spots higher than he should go, and that comes back
and hurt you. So I think they've been guilty of
that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Last thing for Pete Prisco. We are a long way
from week one of the season. We got free agency
in the draft to look forward to. But what does
your gut tell you at this early stage about the
Bengals in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 9 (36:18):
They'll be back in the mix in the division. I
don't think there's any question about that. I think it's
a two team division. Look, the Steelers have major questions
at quarterback.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I think they have.
Speaker 10 (36:26):
Questions at other spots.
Speaker 11 (36:27):
They were kind of steel.
Speaker 9 (36:28):
Fans don't like hearing this, but they were kind of
a mirage less if you could look inside their numbers.
Speaker 11 (36:32):
They didn't run the ball very well, they didn't stop
the run very.
Speaker 9 (36:34):
Well, they didn't get after the quarterback very well, and
somehow they were there at the end.
Speaker 11 (36:37):
I don't have no idea. It's a tribute to Mike
Tomlin as a football.
Speaker 10 (36:41):
Coach because a quarterback play wasn't very good.
Speaker 9 (36:43):
So I think it's a two team division. I think
it'll be the Ravens and the Bengals in the division.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Always a treat to pick your brain. Really happy. I
ran India here in Indy. Thanks so much, Pete got it.
You got it.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
It's one of my favorites. You can follow him on
x at Prisco CBS. That's p Isco CBS. We end
this episode by turning the clock back to twenty eighteen
and a conversation I had with a twenty three year
old rookie out of Ohio State. Time for some fun
(37:15):
facts with defensive ends, Sam Hubbard from Ohio State by
way of Mohler High School. According to your bio, Sam
Buckeye's coach Urban Meyer, first notice you playing dodgeball in
gym class. True story or Urban myth.
Speaker 12 (37:31):
True story.
Speaker 13 (37:32):
So my high school football coach was our gym teacher
as well, and coach Meyern Kerry Combs came in one
day to visit him and you see the town at
Moller and I happened to be in the gym class
when he walked in the building and got introduced to
him after playing a game of dodgeball, and that's how
it all started.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Were you just like drilling kids on the opposite side
of the court.
Speaker 13 (37:53):
Yeah, I mean the last person you expect to walk
into your gym class is Urban Meyer, but once you
see him, you expect to go a little bit harder.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Sam, five years ago, you're sitting in class at Moeller
High School. Now you're playing for your hometown NFL team.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
How surreal is that.
Speaker 13 (38:10):
That first home game on that Thursday night was a
special moment, especially looking up into the stands and seeing
my family and friends in my jersey. All I wanted
to do was just make him proud, and that was
a special moment. And I'm gonna continue to represent and
do what i can to make the city proud.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
We're doing fun facts with Sam Hubbard. You're a great
athlete in high school. But what else were you interested
in as a kid.
Speaker 13 (38:34):
There's a lot of things, you know. I was always
interested in history. You know, my dad's a history buffs.
He knows everything Roman Empire, all that stuff. And eventually
I came out of college with a minor in history,
you know, taking EP classes in history in high school.
I was interested in sports obviously, and hanging out with
(38:55):
friends and having a good time.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
You also earned a finance degree in three and a
half years at Ohio State. How did you juggle football
in school?
Speaker 12 (39:04):
It was tough.
Speaker 13 (39:05):
I think I was raised very well by my mom
and dad, learning time management and you know, how to
be successful, working hard and doing all the right things
all the time. I think I had a great foundation
from them, and then I got to Moeller learned how
to do stuff right in the classroom and on the field,
and just enhance it once I got to Ohio State.
(39:25):
So I was very fortunate with the people around me
that showed me the right way to do things.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
We're doing fun facts with Sam Hubburn. We're going all
over the map. Tell me the story of getting Rudy
Johnson's autograph at a Cincinnati mall.
Speaker 13 (39:38):
Yeah, me and my friends. I can't even remember what
grade we're in, but it was around Halloween and we're
going to Halloween Express got dropped off by our parents
to get a costume and ran into Rudy Johnson. I
forget who who he was with, but we ran inside,
got a piece of paper, asked them to sign I
(40:00):
so got to hang in my room to this day.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Nice choice, Rudy, great player in his Bengals days. You
were a great lacrosse player at Moler. You almost went
to Notre Dame to play lacrosse before playing college football
at Ohio State.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Was it hard to give up lacrosse?
Speaker 12 (40:15):
It was hard.
Speaker 13 (40:15):
I think the hardest thing was not playing lacrosse my
senior year of high school. I didn't play so that
I could spend extra time in the weight room gaining
weight and getting ready to play college football. But you know,
I love the sport equally as much as I loved football,
and you know, it's a sacrifice I had to make.
But I really like where I'm at now and what
I'm doing, so I can't complain.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
There's footage of you playing lacrosse on YouTube. You're about
six inches taller than most of the other guys on
the field. Did you scare opponents in that sport?
Speaker 13 (40:45):
Yeah, one on YouTube's my freshman year. If you want
to see my real highlights, watch the junior ones on huddle.
Those are more fun. But yeah, I was bigger than
most of the guys I played against.
Speaker 12 (40:55):
There's just that's how lacrosse is.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
When you got to Ohio State, put on a lot
of muscle to go from being a safety to being
a defensive end. How much did you eat and what
did you eat?
Speaker 12 (41:07):
It was a process.
Speaker 13 (41:08):
I you know, first I was eating anything inside I could,
just to get the weight on me so I could
compete at the high level. And over the years, especially
now I've learned how to eat right, how to eat properly,
and really you know, gain the right kind of weight,
replace that whatever it was fat with muscle.
Speaker 12 (41:26):
Just try to lean out.
Speaker 13 (41:27):
But I till I felt sick every meal for six
months until I gained forty pounds and then ever since then,
just trying to maintain and stay stay in the weight
room extra.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
You never lost to Michigan in four years at Ohio State.
How obnoxious are you when you are around Michigan people?
Speaker 12 (41:47):
Pretty obnoxious?
Speaker 13 (41:48):
Rightfully, So we uh we don't have any love for
that stayed up north, but uh, you know, I can
I feel like I can say whatever I want because
they got no bragging rights.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
We're doing fun facts. That's Sam Hubbard.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
I mentioned your finance degree from Ohio State. You had
internships at Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan in New York.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
What'd you learn?
Speaker 12 (42:08):
I learned a lot.
Speaker 13 (42:08):
I learned how you know, how competitive the business world is.
It's just as competitive as a football field. You know,
there's a special type of you know, people that are successful.
You know, they're determined, they're driven, and they're experts in
their field. And if I want to be successful one
day when I'm done with football in the business world,
(42:29):
I got to take the same approach I took with football.
And that's really the biggest thing I took away from it.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
We're talking to Sam Hubbard after you got drafted your
family and friends about one hundred and sixty four customized
Hubbard number ninety four jerseys from the Bengals Pro Shop.
I know you love them to death, but was it
a little embarrassing?
Speaker 12 (42:47):
Oh no, not at all. That was awesome.
Speaker 13 (42:49):
I thank my aunt Emily and my sister Madison that
organized the whole thing, and everyone just wanted to be
involved and be supportive.
Speaker 12 (43:00):
I'm so thankful for it.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Sounds like the tailgates are pretty legendary in the Hubbard family.
Speaker 12 (43:04):
Yeah, well, no, I've never been to one.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Even postgame. Don't you get to go over there and
say hello? When you're done.
Speaker 13 (43:10):
Oh yeah, but the party usually is died down by then.
But now they they have my friends go. People that
have never been to a House State or Bengals game
go and they tell me that it's the best fun
they've had in the life. So shout out to my
parents for bringing their a game every week.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
What are you do when you have free time?
Speaker 12 (43:29):
A lot of things?
Speaker 7 (43:30):
You know.
Speaker 13 (43:30):
I like to watch movies. I'm gonna consider myself a
movie critic. I like to cook, go out to eat, relaxed, swim, fish,
play golf. I got a lot of hobbies, but pretty
much whatever I'm feeling.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Does the movie buff have an all time favorite?
Speaker 13 (43:47):
I got a couple of all time favorites. I don't
think I can pick one off the top of my
head right now. Maybe Good Fellas, Oh good choice?
Speaker 4 (43:53):
All right?
Speaker 12 (43:54):
Final thing?
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Great athlete, great student, but nobody's perfect. What do you
stink at basketball?
Speaker 12 (44:03):
Really can't shoot.
Speaker 13 (44:05):
All I can do is rebound and pass it off.
That's always been My uncle played basketball at Michigan. You know,
I've always wanted to be good at basketball, but just
wasn't my sport.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Can't be good at everything, right, Appreciate the time, best
of luck this year.
Speaker 12 (44:19):
Nope, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
That's Sam Hubbard.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Sam plans to continue his work in the community through
the Sam Hubbard Foundation and his annual Fowling tournament featuring
current and former Bengals, is coming up on May fifteenth.
Registration opens tomorrow, Friday, March seventh, at nine am. That's
going to do it for this episode of the Bengals
Booth Podcast, brought to you by pay Corp. Proud to
(44:44):
be the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber,
future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business
and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health
the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is
the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. If you haven't
done so already, please subscribe to this podcast and if
you have them in it, give it a rating or
(45:05):
share a comment that helps more Bengals fans find us.
I'm Dan Horde and thanks for listening to The Bengals
Booth Podcast.
Hi, get everybody on Dan Hord and thanks for downloading
the Bengals Booth Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
The rest is still unwritten.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
On addition, as we discuss a crucial off season for
the Bengals with draft guru Dane Brugler from The Athletic
and NFL analyst Pete Prisco from CBS Sports. The Bengals
Booth Podcast is brought to you by pay Corps, Proud
to be the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber,
(00:31):
future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business
and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health,
the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is
the official healthcare provider of the Bengals. Now here's a
quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of
this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer
by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts. It's the greatest
(00:55):
thing since. Sam Hubbard, the Bengals defensive end, announced his
retirement on Wednesday after a great seven year run with
his hometown team. The Bengals struck gold when they drafted
him in the third round in twenty eighteen. Sam was
a productive and durable player, a universally respected team leader
(01:16):
and a tremendous ambassador for the franchise, twice, being nominated
for the Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award
for his charitable efforts in the community. Sam is also
responsible for two of the most important plays in franchise history. First,
a red zone sack of Patrick Mahomes in the final
(01:37):
minute of regulation in the AFC Championship game that forced
Kansas City to settle for an overtime forcing field goal.
The Bengals then won the game in ot to advance
to the Super Bowl, and one year later, what I
would consider to be the most iconic play in Bengals history,
the fumble in the Jungle. Here's how those plays sounded
(01:59):
on the race, plus a memorable moment that happened ten
days before Christmas last year.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
On third and goal from.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
The nile, Mahomes catches the shotgun snap, retreats back to
the eighteen. Looking around in the end zone, nobody opened,
yet no pressure at all. Now Here comes the rush
Mahomes way back at.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
The twenty times they lose it at all.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
The Chiefs fall on it at the twenty six, and
this makes it a much more difficult field goal try.
It will be a forty four yarder with all sorts
of pressure on Harrison.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
Butker, I'll tell you what. They rushed three and dropped eight.
They blanketed everybody. Sam Hubbard forced the funnel.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Jane Tooney recovered it. Huber loss of seventeen.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
How about back to back snaps by Sam Hubbard. I
mean he makes the play on second down, makes the
play on third down. About the Moller High School house,
state product, local kid in just making huge.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Plays third down and goal. The line hand sticks the
ball out. The Bengals have the ball. They are running
it back, Sam Hubbard.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
We had blockers behind him, Hubbard of the Ravens forty,
the thirty, the twenty, the ten, the Bob touchdown Bengals
who Tyler Hunley tried to extend the ball over the
goal line.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
It got poked away.
Speaker 6 (03:25):
Sam Hubbard scooped it up and ran the length of
the field for a go ahead Bengals touchdown.
Speaker 5 (03:33):
He tried to pull at Trevor Lawrence and the Bengals
said no.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
They slapped it.
Speaker 6 (03:38):
Out of there.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Logan Wilson punched the ball out of the hands of
Tyler Huntley.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
And right into the hands of Sam Hubbard and boy
Logan Wilson others.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Everybody was swarming it at at.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
That football and Sam Hubbard says, I'll take it to
the house. And boy who threw the block for Sam
Hubbard down the football field his escorts service. Final block
was necessary and it was made for him.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Burrow fakes a handoff, throws a pass Sam.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
Hubbard fake with the catch, Saton touchdown Bengals.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Sam Hubbard raising.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
The football over his head and spiking at Gronk style
after the first catch of his NFL career.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
Sam Hubbard started his career at Mowler High School.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
Is a tight end, Sam Hubbard is an athlete, Sam Hubbard.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
That's a great fingertip catch.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Sam actually suffered a season ending knee injury on that play,
so on the final snap of his NFL career, he
caught a touchdown pass from an old college buddy who
became one of his closest friends, Joe Burrow. It's kind
of like Ted Williams hitting a home run in his
final at bat. Coming up later on the podcast of
fun Facts Flashback, as Sam discusses the thrill of playing
(04:55):
for his hometown team. Now, let's get to my first guest.
If ESPN's mel Kiper was the first person to become
famous for being an NFL draft expert, the best guy
doing it now, in my opinion, is Dane Brugler from
The Athletic. His annual draft guide, The Beast, annually contains
more than four hundred in depth player profiles. I caught
(05:19):
up with Dane at the NFL Scouting Combine dayan. The
Bengals need to address their defensive line. I keep hearing
from various draft gurus, and I have you at the
top of the list that it's a good defensive line draft.
Speaker 7 (05:35):
Is that the case, There's no doubt, and I think
it's true in the first round, it's true once you
get to Day two and then even into Day three,
both on the edge and on the interior. So and
there's different styles, different types, different sizes. Like I think
there is a little bit of everything depending on what
you really want. If you're looking for more of the
proven production, you know, there's that guy in this draft.
Speaker 8 (05:58):
If you want someone.
Speaker 7 (05:59):
That's got all the time cools, that's in this draft
as well. So I think it depends on It'll be interesting.
Every team's going to stack their boards a little bit
differently with this defensive line class, where some teams are
gonna look at the promise of a Michel Williams from
Georgia and say they they don't make them like that
very often, and so let's get that, let's coach him up,
(06:19):
and we've got something where other teams might look at
it and say.
Speaker 8 (06:23):
You know, like that, we like him.
Speaker 7 (06:24):
That's a little rich for us because he's a little
bit of a project. He's a little bit more of
an idea than a polished player at this point. So
I think teams are going to be all over the
map with how they stack these the defensive linemen this year.
And part of it is because of what I just said.
There's so many of them, there's so many different types.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Glad you mentioned Williams because on your first mock draft
you had Cincinnati selecting him number seventeen overall, so obviously
would be a good match. They need somebody to rush
the quarterback other than Trey Hendrickson, and clearly you think
there's a chance he'll be there at seventeen.
Speaker 8 (06:56):
Yeah, I mean, he could go top ten.
Speaker 7 (06:58):
I wouldn't be surprised, because again, he's just a freaky,
freaky dude. But if he did fall a little bit
into the mid first, I think that that would make sense.
And I don't want to make it sound like he's
a true project that he's not going to see the
field right away, because I think obviously Bengals fans they
want some help right away. They don't want someone to
have to sit. And you know, they've seen that from
(07:18):
a few other draft picks recently, where you know, they
want someone that's going to be able to come in
and impact the team, and I think Became Williams could
do that.
Speaker 8 (07:24):
He just he was hurt. He was banged up this year.
Speaker 7 (07:26):
You know, he the ankle injury played him throughout the
entire year. But I would say, just watch the Texas tape.
Watch what he does against a pretty good offensive line,
and you see the talent and it's not just I'm bigger,
longer than you.
Speaker 8 (07:40):
I'm just it's not just quicker than you.
Speaker 7 (07:42):
He showed a better understanding this year of you know,
using the length of his advantage. So he's leveraging the
point of attack, plays very well against the run, different
euro steps and the ways that he can win the corner.
So he's you know there's progression there. It's not just
a ball of clay that you're trying to mold into something.
(08:03):
So I think with Michel Williams, it's a little bit
of both, where you have a guy who's gonna come
in and help out right away as a part of
that rotation, but also someone that you'll love the upside
and say, yeah, he's good now, but he has a
chance to be truly a difference maker down the road.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
We're talking draft with Dame Bugler from the Athletic let's
focus in on the defensive tackles a little bit. I
assume Mason Graham will be long gone by the time
the Bengals select, even if they had thoughts of trading up.
But let's talk about some of the other guys that
could be there. Walter Nolan from Ole miss Tyleek Williams
from Ohio State, Kenneth Grant from Michigan, Derek Harmon from
(08:43):
Oregon who stands out in that group from guys that
you think would have a chance to be there at seventeen.
Speaker 7 (08:50):
I really like Derek Harmon, you know, Michigan State transfer
went to Oregon. He's he's really disruptive. I mean you
think about interior pressure. Nobody pressured created more pressure from
the interior of the defensive line this year in college
football than Derek Harmon, and that translates last year, the
(09:11):
guy that did that the most was Byron Murphy and
he was the first defensive tackle drafted last year. I think,
what's sixteen overall by the Seahawks. So Harmon is kind
of in that, in that mold where he can disrupt
what the offense wants to do, and he does it
with power. He can win with his quickness through the gaps.
You know, there's there's a lot to like there with Harmon,
(09:32):
and especially as a guy that's still figuring things out,
another guy that you know, he's not a finished product
by any means, but he's still able to be productive
with what he knows right now. So I really like
Derek Carmon in that mix. I'm a big Tyley Williams
fan too, especially against a run. He's one of the
best run defending defensive tackles in his class, and he
doesn't necessarily look like it, you know, like he doesn't
look like a hulking nose tackle, but he's so good
(09:54):
with the stack shed I'm not going to lose the runner,
which he's so good with his eye.
Speaker 8 (10:01):
And you know there's a lot of those guys in
this drive.
Speaker 7 (10:03):
And Alfred Collins from Texas I would throw in that
mix as well. He's gigantic and he's six five over
six five thirty five inch arms and he's another one
that controls the point of attack and he's going to
good luck running at him because he is going to
clog things up, just like you know, Tallier Williams does
the same thing. TALLI Williams a little bit smaller, has
better range. Walter Nolan, he's your one gap penetrator, classic,
(10:27):
gonna win with quickness. Some stuff that he's you know,
they need to figure out with him, just making sure
they get the best version of him. It's, you know,
the nicest way to say it, but you know, he's
there's a lot to like about him because again he
can create that interior disruption and it's it's harder to
find those guys.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Let's move to edge guys that could be there.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Mike Green from Marshall, Shamar Stewart from Texas A and
m James Pierce from Tennessee. The Boston College Kid as
a root as a. I don't know how much print
out you can tell me, but in any case, how
about that group and and how you feel about them?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (11:02):
As a rock who is Yeah, he's he's a lot
of fun to watch. He's he's longer, like he doesn't
look very big, but he's really long, and he uses
that well. He's a two way go guy where he
can win with speed, but he can also, uh you know,
win with counters inside.
Speaker 8 (11:17):
He can go right at you and and go speed
to power.
Speaker 7 (11:21):
As a rock who can win in different ways, and
I think that's you know, the the production really stands out.
So you know, teams draft trades over production, but when
you have both, it's like, okay, that's even better. And
that's the same thing with Mike Green. Mike Green leadon
FBS and sacks this year. I think the biggest knock
on him will be he did it against Sunbelt competition,
(11:41):
you know, playing up Marshall and playing that schedule.
Speaker 8 (11:43):
But you throw onto Ohio State tape and you see
him win.
Speaker 7 (11:46):
So his game is built all on violence and play speed.
I just NonStop and versus the run and versus pass.
So Mike Green is a fun player. Yeah, with James Pierce.
He's he's still very much learning. I think he is
a guy that the talent is tremendous, but you need
(12:06):
to figure out, Okay, what makes him tick? How long
does it take before we get him to a point
where you know, we trust him setting an edge, you know,
being a true three down player. But the talent is
so exceptional that he still is very much and it
has a chance to go top twenty. So he's gonna
be one of the teams really spend a lot of
(12:28):
time with to figure him out.
Speaker 8 (12:31):
What was the fourth one?
Speaker 2 (12:31):
You said, Stewart from Texas, I am.
Speaker 8 (12:34):
That's just wait till he works out today.
Speaker 7 (12:37):
He's the freakiest of the freaks, two six and eighty
pounds and I mean maybe runs in the four fives.
Speaker 8 (12:45):
It's gonna be crazy.
Speaker 7 (12:46):
I think his ten yards split, like his burst is
so great, the ten yard split could be in the
one fives. And to put that in the context, Von
Miller is a one five to nine ten yards split,
so wouldn't be shocked at all. I mentioned trades over
product Schmar Stewart, I want to have sacks this year.
Speaker 8 (13:02):
But when you watch.
Speaker 7 (13:03):
His film, you're like, Okay, he's getting home like he's
he's winning.
Speaker 8 (13:08):
He actually led Texas a and.
Speaker 7 (13:09):
Him and pressures, so even though he was farther down
the list on sacks, he led the team in pressure.
So he is getting there. He just needs to be
a better finisher. And ideally, yes, you want him to
get the sacks. But if I'm making the quarterback move
his feet, I'm doing my job. You know, I'm creating
that disruption. And so Schmart Stewart, I think I think
he was number eight on my top one hundred. Like
I'm already I'm already factoring in the fact that he's
(13:31):
a freak athlete, and I think I'll show it here
at the combine. And you know, the lack of reduction
isn't ideal, but I'm not as much worried about it
as other people are.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Dan Brugler is our guest. His draft guide, the beast
that you can get if you are a subscriber to
The Athletic is unlike anything else for people that are
interested in the draft. It is really must reading if
you were interested in the players that the Bengals are
going to be looking at in the draft this year.
The Bengals are in the market for a guard. I'd
be surprised if they took one in the first round.
(14:02):
It's not out of the question. They've done it once
before with Kevin Zeitler, but that's the only time in
franchise history they've taken a guard in round one. Can
you give me a Day two and a Day three
guard or a couple of them that you like?
Speaker 7 (14:17):
Yeah, I think on Day two Tate Ratlie from from
Georgia's he fits the bill. He's ready to go strong
at the point of attack, he can win with torque.
Speaker 8 (14:27):
And I really Miles Fraser from LSU. Both these guys
are right guards.
Speaker 7 (14:32):
Fraser he's maybe the nastiest lineman in this draft. You
can make that argument where the competitive toughness is off
the charts. Maybe not the best athlete of the group,
but he's not deficient in that area and he wins with.
Speaker 8 (14:46):
Just the physicality, the competitiveness.
Speaker 7 (14:49):
And so Miles Fraser, he had a good week at
the Senior Bowl kind of helped himself as well. He's
gonna be right there in that Day two mix as well.
It's a good, pretty good guard group. A couple will
go in the first round. Tyler Booker and I think.
Speaker 8 (15:03):
Kelvin Banks from Texas is a guard.
Speaker 7 (15:05):
And then on day two it's there's gonna be more
than a handful of names that I think will be
in play for the Bengals.
Speaker 8 (15:11):
And on day three Anthony Belton from Enci State.
Speaker 7 (15:15):
He's a college left tackle who I think is going
to be better moved inside. Gigantic guy, mammoth guy, and
getting him away from having to play on an island,
I think will help him and just help him with
his timing, with a setup, the ability to use his hands.
But I think Anthey Belton for you know, fourth fifth round,
he would make.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Some soundse Have you studied Luke Candra from the University
of Cincinnati as Cincinnati kid as a possible third a
third day guard prospect, Yeah.
Speaker 7 (15:43):
No doubt, And I think he should do pretty well
for himself here. Like I, not the best athlete, but
a good athlete. And you know, seeing his background by
Louisville and then going to Cincinnati, you know he's he's
played a lot of football. You know, he's a experienced guy,
and you know, I was impressed with him this year.
Speaker 8 (16:02):
I think he's he's a guy that technically is a.
Speaker 7 (16:06):
Further along than some of these other players and might
give you a little bit of versatility on the interior.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Let's talk tight ends.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
It sounds like people are enthused about this group. The
Bengals have Mike Kasicki as a free agent, not sure
if he'll be back. Unfortunately, Eric All, who is so
impressive before he got hurt last year, is likely to
miss the entire season. What about this tight end group
and some of the guys you like is loaded?
Speaker 7 (16:30):
Absolutely, And if you want to go that direction in
the first round, you know, to Tyler Warren or Colson Lovelin,
are they still available for you in the first Possibly,
But it's not like it's you know, you're worried if
they're not. Because on Day two, Mason Taylor from LSU,
Elijah Royo from Miami, I'm a big fan of Gunner
(16:50):
Helm from Texas. I think that, you know, that'd be
a nice fit on day two in the second round
for the Bengals. He can be kind of that mismatched
weapon where yeah he'll block a little bit, but his
ability to win down the field at the catch point.
He's a good athlete. He stands out and and then
even in the Day three there's name. So I think
this is a tight end class that it's it's good
(17:12):
in the first round with those top two guys, but
then it stretches.
Speaker 8 (17:15):
Day two, day three.
Speaker 7 (17:17):
Plenty of guys that you see can or can come
in and compete for jobs and try to make something.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
A year ago, at this time, I was asking you
about offensive tackles. The Bengals obviously took one an a
Marius Mims.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I believe your quote.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
At the time was looks like he was built in
a lab to play right tackle.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
What'd you think of his play as a rookie.
Speaker 7 (17:36):
Yeah, you know, and maybe even a little bit better
than I expected, because he was, you know, he had
missed so much time with the injury.
Speaker 8 (17:45):
You know, he was so good the year before.
Speaker 7 (17:47):
Against Ohio State in that playoff game, and it was
just like, oh wow, this guy is for real. And
then he missed time the next year because of the
ankle injury, and so you just weren't sure, like you
knew the size, strength, the ability, but just mindset wise,
where was he going to be?
Speaker 8 (18:03):
Technique wise? Where would he be?
Speaker 7 (18:05):
And I thought he was even a little bit He's
still raw in areas, still green in areas but I
thought he was further along than what most people expected,
and he held his own for a good chunk of
when he was out there, which was awesome to see,
especially you know, in the AFC North. So I think
if you're a Bengals fan, you have to be encouraged
by the what you saw in year one and then
(18:26):
what's to come in year two.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
On the flip side, there were concerns character wise with
Jermaine Burton.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
The Bengals rolled the.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Dice in the third round, at least so far, it
hasn't worked out when that happens.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Do you think that a team is really.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Reluctant to take any risks in the near future.
Speaker 7 (18:46):
Well, the Bengals haven't been scared off of those guys,
So I don't you know, you have to have a
process when you're talking about you know, because all these
guys aren't choir boys, you know, and that doesn't mean
you don't draft them.
Speaker 9 (19:00):
You know.
Speaker 7 (19:01):
There have been plenty of guys with issues that have
turned out to be really solid pros and haven't been
issues behind the scenes, and so you just have to
understand what makes him tick, you know, how big is
this an issue that's gonna come with them, or is
this something where we give him structure, we give him
the support that he needs. All of a sudden, you know,
(19:22):
we have a what's a locker room, like we have
the veteran locker room that's gonna be able to take
him under their wing.
Speaker 8 (19:28):
So every case is different.
Speaker 7 (19:29):
You know, I don't want to paint a broad brush
because every case is so unique, and it no different
than last year with Burton. You know, there the character
was definitely a question mark and a lot of teams.
He was off the board for a lot of teams
and Bengals rolled the dice and.
Speaker 8 (19:46):
You know it didn't work out.
Speaker 7 (19:47):
But you know, you don't you know, you're not throwing
dirt on the on the coffin just yet.
Speaker 8 (19:51):
You know, we'll see.
Speaker 7 (19:54):
They have made it known exactly where they stand with
them and what they need to see from him if
you want to stay on the roster. And so hopefully
this is kind of the wake up call and say,
all right, we'll be better this year.
Speaker 8 (20:06):
We'll show improvement.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Your description of the process was perfect for what the
Bengals were thinking of with Jermaine Burton.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
A group of hard working, talented players like Jamar Chase
and t Higgins.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
They thought that the group and the coach would elevate
him and unfortunately, at least there's a rookie, it didn't
pan out.
Speaker 7 (20:25):
Yeah, and that's why the draft is always going to
be more of an earth than a science. You know,
you can't you can like the fact that he had
he struggled is not a huge surprise because of the
warning signs and the red flags. But at the same time,
you know, Devandre Sweat was had all these types of
issues and the Titans shocked a lot of people and
(20:46):
they drafted him top forty. Still, you know that some
teams took him off the board. Some team said, well,
maybe if he's there in the third or the fourth,
Titan said, you know, no, we're going to take a
chance here. And Sweat was awesome as a rookie, and
at least at this point, nothing's popped up, you know,
as being an issue for him. So you know, there's
examples on both sides of guys that had some red
(21:06):
flags character wise who were able to mature and work out.
And I mean your point is I think dead on.
When you drop the player like that, you feel like,
all right, we're bringing him to a wide receiver room
that has some proven guys that you know are prime
examples of Hey, if I have the talent, if I
work and I do what's needed of me was asked
(21:26):
to me, and I listened to the coaching, maybe I could.
Speaker 8 (21:28):
Be on their level someday.
Speaker 7 (21:30):
And so I think you understand the reasoning, but you
also understand maybe why it hasn't worked out yet.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Visiting with Dame Brugler from the Athletic I mentioned defensive tackles,
defensive ends, guards, and tight ends.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Let's talk running back.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Chase Brown is emerging as perfect fit for the Bengals offense,
but we don't know about the future of Zach Moss.
I suspect they're probably going to add to that group
at some point. What do you think about guys after
round one? And they wouldn't take one that early, but
day two, Day three, at running.
Speaker 8 (22:04):
Back, it's a loaded position this year.
Speaker 7 (22:06):
I mean, you you feel really good about who's gonna
be available round two, round three, round four. I think
I gave draft well grades to thirty two running backs.
I mean, there's just a lot of them, and they're
gonna go. They're all probably gonna go later than they should,
you know, just because there's only so many teams that
are gonna consider a running back in a second round
or the third round, and so it just pushes everybody
back a little bit. But you know, it depends what
(22:27):
type of runner they want. They want, you know, someone
that can come in and be a more of a
three down guy, or not three but like a third
down type of back. Then you're looking at like a
LeQuinn Allen out of Syracuse, who is a really good
pass catcher, He blocks well, he can play on special teams.
Speaker 8 (22:43):
If you want someone that's.
Speaker 7 (22:44):
More of an early down guy, like a Damien Martinez
from Miami who is gonna run with power and violence
and try to run over you, that would fit. So
there's just there's so many running backs in his class
that I think would fit my One of my favorites
probably around three for the Bengals, Jordan James from Oregon,
who is.
Speaker 8 (23:03):
Not a home run hitter, but he's going to lead
the league of doubles.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
You know.
Speaker 7 (23:07):
He's that type of guy where thirty five point six
percent of his carries last year resulted in a first
down or a touchdown, so he might not rip off
a sixty yarder, but he's going to get six consistently,
and so I think Jordan James, he's going to be
a steal at wherever the third round, fourth round Rover
ends up going.
Speaker 8 (23:28):
He's one of my favorite backs this year.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
There's another since he Cincinnati kid at the combine, Corey Kiner.
He started his college career at LSU, wound up back
home in Cincinnati, Cincinnati high school kid. Is he one
of your running backs with a draftable great?
Speaker 7 (23:41):
Yeah, Roger Bacon, right, Yeah, Yeah, he's he's honestly, he's
right on the cusp. He's like, I could see why
he would go in the sixth, seventh round, or I
could see why he'd be a PFA.
Speaker 8 (23:52):
He's one of the borderline guys. But you know he's here.
Speaker 7 (23:55):
You know he's he was at the Shrine Bowl too,
got you to see him there. He'll be here at
the combine a chance to you know, is he gonna
be a.
Speaker 8 (24:02):
Four to four guy, four or five guy in the
four yeard dash.
Speaker 7 (24:05):
You'll have a chance to kind of make his statement
why he should be drafted. And it's tough class because
it's so loaded, so many names, so anything you do
to stand out.
Speaker 8 (24:13):
That'll be key for these guys.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
We've got a couple more minutes with Dame Brugler. The
Bengals only have six picks. I think they would love
to trade down at some point to get more.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
What would be a good time to do.
Speaker 7 (24:25):
That, Yeah, and I think it's you have to see
ow the first what sixteen picks play out in the
first round.
Speaker 8 (24:31):
If they would do that, entertain that in the first round.
Speaker 7 (24:34):
This is also a draft where I'm just I'm not
confident how many teams are gonna want to trade up,
you know, like you have to have a dance partner
in order to get those extra picks, and in this class,
I'm just not sold that. You know, we see trades
every year, so it's not like we're not going to
have any trades. Of course we will, but I'm not
sure that the phone will be ringing maybe as much
as in past years.
Speaker 8 (24:55):
And it's interesting.
Speaker 7 (24:56):
Because there's I think players thirteen team to forty five
in this draft. Like there's for one team, a player
might be fifteen. That same player might be fifty for
a different team. I think the grades are very similar
in that range, which means the boards are going to
look wildly different, and so I don't know that we'll
have teams maybe clamoring the hey, we got to go
(25:16):
up and get this guy.
Speaker 8 (25:17):
We have a trade up.
Speaker 7 (25:18):
They might be feel fine saying and we probably like
more than other people, will stay put and be able
to get our guys. So ideally, yeah, I think that
makes sense. You trade back, you get an extra third
round pick, fourth round pick. You know, those are so
valuable in terms of filling out your roster and adding depth.
I just think it might be a little bit tougher
to do that this year.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Final question, Really appreciate your time. We assume the Bengals
are going to have one of the top offenses in
the NFL. As long as you've got a healthy Joe Burrow,
Jamar Chase, et cetera, you should be able to score points.
They didn't make the playoffs because their defense wasn't good enough.
Between the draft and what they might be able to
do in free agency, can they improve the defense enough
(25:58):
in one year to be back in the is a
Super Bowl contender?
Speaker 8 (26:02):
There's no doubt because the offense is that good.
Speaker 7 (26:04):
I mean, you don't have to be tremendous on defense
for this team to make the playoffs, you have to
be passable, you have to be average, and I think
they can get there. It's just, yeah, you have to
make a few key decisions, and it's getting better on
the defensive line. It's getting better on the back end
(26:24):
and being more consistent the linebacker level.
Speaker 8 (26:27):
And I'm not.
Speaker 7 (26:28):
Saying it's easy to do that, but I think it's
definitely possible that they can get there this offseason through
the draft, making some key moves in free agency, as
long as you have borrow quarterback and the offense that
they have, because it's not like they went five and
twelve this year.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
They were right there knocking on the door of the playoffs.
Speaker 7 (26:49):
So you make a few key adjustments on defense and
get close to average, I think they'll be right back
in the mix and have a chance to knock down
that door.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I enjoy coming to the Combine every year, and one
of the biggest reasons is the opportunity to pick your brain.
Thank you so much for the time. And I can't
wait for the beast.
Speaker 8 (27:06):
Any Tom can't wait.
Speaker 7 (27:07):
I look forward to it too. It's like, Okay, I know,
I gotta talk to Dan. That's part of my process
of coming to the combine every year.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
By the way, since our conversation, Dane has come out
with a new mock draft. Michel Williams, the edge rusher
he had going to the Bengals in his first mock
was gone this time around, going to San Francisco at
number eleven Overall. Dane now has Cincinnati selecting Michigan cornerback
Will Johnson with a seventeenth pick. Johnson is generally considered
(27:37):
to be one of the top two cornerbacks in this draft,
along with Heisman Trophy winner Travis Hunter, the cornerback slash
wide receiver. The Bengals Booth Podcast is brought to you
by pay Corps, proud to be the Bengals official HR
software provider, by Alta Fiber future proof fiber Internet designed
to elevate your home, business, and community to a new level,
(27:59):
and by Kettering Health the best care for the best fans.
Kettering Health is the official healthcare provider of the Bengals.
Up next, a national NFL reporter who is never shy
about expressing his opinions. Great to catch up at the
combine with Pete Prisco from CBS Sports. Duke Tobin spoke
(28:20):
to the media on Tuesday, he referred to the Bengals
as quote a championship caliber team. They missed the playoffs
the last couple of years. Do you agree with Duke?
Are the Bengals a championship caliber team or close to it?
Speaker 9 (28:32):
Well, they can be a championship caliber offense. I wouldn't
call their defense a championship caliber defense.
Speaker 10 (28:36):
So they have work to.
Speaker 11 (28:37):
Do on that side of the ball.
Speaker 9 (28:38):
But obviously, when Joe Burrow's playing like he's playing, they're
going to stay in a lot of games and win
a lot of games.
Speaker 10 (28:44):
But they have to fix that defense.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Is it fixable in one off season between the draft
and whatever room they have left over in free agency
after they try to extend t Higgins, Jamar Chase, and
Trey Hendrickson, If they can do.
Speaker 9 (28:56):
It well, I think that's the biggest challenge first, and look,
I would do everything I could to try and keep all.
Speaker 11 (29:00):
Three of those players.
Speaker 9 (29:01):
I think if you take Higgins out of the lineup,
it changes the dynamic of the offense. If you take
Hendris out of the lineup, it changes the defense in
a big way. So that's number one priority for me.
And then because you can only there's only so many
stars that you could have, and if you have those guys,
you have stars.
Speaker 10 (29:16):
So I would say, get those.
Speaker 9 (29:18):
Guys signed, then use the draft to fix the try
and fix the defense, and whatever money you have left over,
depending on how you structure the contracts, maybe aut.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
A guy in free agency, Pete.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
I think a year ago, a lot of people, myself included, said,
all right, T Higgins will be a Bengal for one
more year in the franchise tag. It's tough to pay
two receivers that kind of money. They'll move on after that. Then,
with about five weeks to go in the season, Joe
Burrow very publicly said, we need to do it. I
think we can do it, and it changed to a
lot of people's opinion, including my own. Did Joe Burrow's
(29:49):
talk of the importance of keeping both change your opinion
on the subject at all?
Speaker 10 (29:54):
You know what changed my opinion on it is the.
Speaker 9 (29:56):
Way they play together, and when one's not there, it's different.
It's Higgins adds a different dimension of the offense. You know,
when you have Chase and you don't have Higgins, it's
not the same offense.
Speaker 10 (30:05):
So I think that's what Joe Burrow.
Speaker 9 (30:07):
Came out and said it, and that's I kind of
changed my mind, and not based on what he said,
just on what I saw when they're on the field together.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Trey Hendrickson has led the NFL led the NFL in
sacks with seventeen and a half this year. He also
had seventeen and a half the year before. He's got
one year left on his deal. As you've already said,
you think the Bengals should try to extend him. Do
you view Trey as one of the best overall defensive
ends in the league or just an elite pass rusher.
Speaker 9 (30:34):
No, He's one of the best overall defensive ends in
the league, and for whatever reason, he doesn't get the
credit he deserves for being such a really good player
and he plays hard all the time. Yeah, I think
he's a great player. I think they have to do
everything they can to extend him, get that contract done,
make him the priority on defense.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
The Bengals have the seventeenth pick in the first round.
I think most people would consider defensive line to be
their biggest need. Keep hearing from Draft Guru's great year.
If you need a defensive lineman, is that your belief?
Speaker 10 (31:06):
I think it's a great.
Speaker 9 (31:07):
Year for interior defensive lineman, which they you know, they
could use a big body in there.
Speaker 10 (31:11):
And and yeah, you could.
Speaker 11 (31:12):
Get a guy like Grant from Michigan down there.
Speaker 9 (31:14):
I think he'd be a possibility, but they you know,
it's it's funny because how cyclical this league is. Everybody
watched the Eagles and they win the Super Bowl? And
how do they win the Super Bowl with the great
offensive line and the great defensive line and a defensive
line that can get after the quarterback and have a
dominant interior player like Carter and then build it around
him and then they're a great offensive line.
Speaker 11 (31:35):
So now what's everybody trying to do?
Speaker 9 (31:36):
Look for interior defensive linemen and great offensive lineman.
Speaker 11 (31:39):
So yeah, they can get a guy at that spot.
In this draft.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
They probably need a guard. They probably need a tight end.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Are those guys out there in this draft?
Speaker 9 (31:49):
The tight end class is actually pretty good. There are
some guards, but I think there are some guards in
free agency, veteran guys that might not cost a lot
of money that you can plug in and play for
a year or two. You know, Daniels from Pittsburgh, he's
coming off an injury, but a good player, relatively young.
You might be able to Will Fries from Indianapolis.
Speaker 11 (32:09):
You know, relatively young coming off an injury.
Speaker 9 (32:11):
Maybe you get those guys on a team friendly deal
and plug them in and play.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Pete Prisco is our guest.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Any thoughts on the hiring of l Golden, bringing him
back from Notre Dame, the former linebackers coach, to be
their defensive coordinator following Luanna Roumo.
Speaker 11 (32:26):
Yeah, I think it needed a fresh set of eyes
over there.
Speaker 9 (32:29):
It kind of got a little stale, I think, and
sometimes when it gets that way, players kind of tune
it out, and so you get a new guy in there.
He's been there, but you get a new guy calling
the defense, and I think that changes the outlook as
a unit.
Speaker 11 (32:42):
So yeah, I think that's a good move on their part.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
The Bengals were four and eight with five games to go,
ran the table, needed a little help on the final
Sunday to get into the playoffs, and didn't get it
when Denver beat Kansas City.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Were you of the belief that had they.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Snuck in, they were going to be a problem for
other teams in the AFA?
Speaker 9 (33:00):
I said for the last four weeks of the season,
nobody wants to see the Bengals in Everybody in the
AFC was rooting against the Bengals getting.
Speaker 11 (33:08):
Into the playoffs.
Speaker 9 (33:09):
They really were because Joe Burrow is Joe Burrow. He's
so dangerous, that offense is so dynamic. Nobody wanted to
see them in the playoffs.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Here at the combine where everybody's evaluating prospects, and that
generally begins with quarterbacks. Has Joe kind of become the
benchmark in how you evaluate some of these prospects coming along.
Speaker 9 (33:28):
Well, it's interesting because he was such a late bloomer,
you know, and then exploded that last year and everybody said, well,
where'd he come from? Well, where he came from. He
should have been playing probably before that. That's where he
came from. Joe Burrow makes it look so easy, and
we always look for quarterbacks to make it look easy.
You know who else made it look easy? Jayden Daniels
makes it look easy.
Speaker 11 (33:49):
He should have been the number one pick last year.
Speaker 10 (33:51):
I thought he was the best quarterback in the draft
last year. So we got to look at these guys who.
Speaker 9 (33:54):
Makes it look easy And the answer to that is
neither one of them. At the top two and that's
always a concern to me. You know, there's a lot
to like about camp Mord. He can whip it around,
but doesn't make it look easy. Shador Sanders doesn't make
it look easy. So I always gauge my quarterback play
by who makes it look easy.
Speaker 10 (34:12):
Joe Burrow came out. He made it look easy. He
makes it look easy.
Speaker 9 (34:14):
Now it's almost like they're you know, like what Joe cool,
He's cool doing it.
Speaker 11 (34:18):
Jay Daniels is the same way.
Speaker 10 (34:20):
That's what I look for my quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
It's really interesting you would say that because I chatted
with Greg Cosell earlier today and he was talking about
the same thing, and he shared an anecdote that Kurt
Warner said, that is the best compliment a quarterback.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Can receive because it's so hard.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
If somebody tells you you make it look easy, that
is the kindest thing you can say to a quarterback.
Speaker 10 (34:43):
And indeed it is.
Speaker 11 (34:44):
And Kurt Warner made it look easy at times.
Speaker 10 (34:45):
So he knows what that's like.
Speaker 9 (34:47):
But yeah, I think you know, Bengal fans and I
know there was a lot of concern about the defense
and everything, but you have that guy throwing the football around.
Speaker 11 (34:53):
If he's healthy, you're going to be in the division race.
Speaker 9 (34:56):
You're going to be considered a threat in the AMC
and with that, which is why I think it's important
to keep t Higgins. You are always going to be
in games because teams can't put you away.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
The Bengals had a long stretch of successful drafts that
really fueled that stretch of five straight years where they
made the playoffs under Marvin Lewis. In recent years, it's
been a little more hit and miss. I think last
year they actually did pretty well, but there were some
drafts before that that haven't been all that productive. Is
that just the nature of the draft or is there
anything about what Cincinnati has done in recent years that's
(35:30):
been a bit of a red flag for you?
Speaker 9 (35:31):
Well, I think one of the things that they've done
a little bit of is you chase your mistakes. Sometimes
in defensive line, they've kind of chased their mistakes.
Speaker 11 (35:38):
A little bit.
Speaker 9 (35:39):
When you chase your mistakes, you tend to overdraft the position.
Maybe in some of those scenarios, they've overdrafted some of
those guys.
Speaker 11 (35:45):
So where are they right now? They're still looking for
some of those guys.
Speaker 10 (35:48):
So I think that gets teams. That catches up with
you a little bit.
Speaker 9 (35:52):
If you make a mistake, you're apt to go back
and try and fill it, and then you overdraft the
guy maybe you know a rounder or you know fifteen
spots higher than he should go, and that comes back
and hurt you. So I think they've been guilty of
that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Last thing for Pete Prisco. We are a long way
from week one of the season. We got free agency
in the draft to look forward to. But what does
your gut tell you at this early stage about the
Bengals in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 9 (36:18):
They'll be back in the mix in the division. I
don't think there's any question about that. I think it's
a two team division. Look, the Steelers have major questions
at quarterback.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I think they have.
Speaker 10 (36:26):
Questions at other spots.
Speaker 11 (36:27):
They were kind of steel.
Speaker 9 (36:28):
Fans don't like hearing this, but they were kind of
a mirage less if you could look inside their numbers.
Speaker 11 (36:32):
They didn't run the ball very well, they didn't stop
the run very.
Speaker 9 (36:34):
Well, they didn't get after the quarterback very well, and
somehow they were there at the end.
Speaker 11 (36:37):
I don't have no idea. It's a tribute to Mike
Tomlin as a football.
Speaker 10 (36:41):
Coach because a quarterback play wasn't very good.
Speaker 9 (36:43):
So I think it's a two team division. I think
it'll be the Ravens and the Bengals in the division.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Always a treat to pick your brain. Really happy. I
ran India here in Indy. Thanks so much, Pete got it.
You got it.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
It's one of my favorites. You can follow him on
x at Prisco CBS. That's p Isco CBS. We end
this episode by turning the clock back to twenty eighteen
and a conversation I had with a twenty three year
old rookie out of Ohio State. Time for some fun
(37:15):
facts with defensive ends, Sam Hubbard from Ohio State by
way of Mohler High School. According to your bio, Sam
Buckeye's coach Urban Meyer, first notice you playing dodgeball in
gym class. True story or Urban myth.
Speaker 12 (37:31):
True story.
Speaker 13 (37:32):
So my high school football coach was our gym teacher
as well, and coach Meyern Kerry Combs came in one
day to visit him and you see the town at
Moller and I happened to be in the gym class
when he walked in the building and got introduced to
him after playing a game of dodgeball, and that's how
it all started.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Were you just like drilling kids on the opposite side
of the court.
Speaker 13 (37:53):
Yeah, I mean the last person you expect to walk
into your gym class is Urban Meyer, but once you
see him, you expect to go a little bit harder.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Sam, five years ago, you're sitting in class at Moeller
High School. Now you're playing for your hometown NFL team.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
How surreal is that.
Speaker 13 (38:10):
That first home game on that Thursday night was a
special moment, especially looking up into the stands and seeing
my family and friends in my jersey. All I wanted
to do was just make him proud, and that was
a special moment. And I'm gonna continue to represent and
do what i can to make the city proud.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
We're doing fun facts with Sam Hubbard. You're a great
athlete in high school. But what else were you interested
in as a kid.
Speaker 13 (38:34):
There's a lot of things, you know. I was always
interested in history. You know, my dad's a history buffs.
He knows everything Roman Empire, all that stuff. And eventually
I came out of college with a minor in history,
you know, taking EP classes in history in high school.
I was interested in sports obviously, and hanging out with
(38:55):
friends and having a good time.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
You also earned a finance degree in three and a
half years at Ohio State. How did you juggle football
in school?
Speaker 12 (39:04):
It was tough.
Speaker 13 (39:05):
I think I was raised very well by my mom
and dad, learning time management and you know, how to
be successful, working hard and doing all the right things
all the time. I think I had a great foundation
from them, and then I got to Moeller learned how
to do stuff right in the classroom and on the field,
and just enhance it once I got to Ohio State.
(39:25):
So I was very fortunate with the people around me
that showed me the right way to do things.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
We're doing fun facts with Sam Hubburn. We're going all
over the map. Tell me the story of getting Rudy
Johnson's autograph at a Cincinnati mall.
Speaker 13 (39:38):
Yeah, me and my friends. I can't even remember what
grade we're in, but it was around Halloween and we're
going to Halloween Express got dropped off by our parents
to get a costume and ran into Rudy Johnson. I
forget who who he was with, but we ran inside,
got a piece of paper, asked them to sign I
(40:00):
so got to hang in my room to this day.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Nice choice, Rudy, great player in his Bengals days. You
were a great lacrosse player at Moler. You almost went
to Notre Dame to play lacrosse before playing college football
at Ohio State.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Was it hard to give up lacrosse?
Speaker 12 (40:15):
It was hard.
Speaker 13 (40:15):
I think the hardest thing was not playing lacrosse my
senior year of high school. I didn't play so that
I could spend extra time in the weight room gaining
weight and getting ready to play college football. But you know,
I love the sport equally as much as I loved football,
and you know, it's a sacrifice I had to make.
But I really like where I'm at now and what
I'm doing, so I can't complain.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
There's footage of you playing lacrosse on YouTube. You're about
six inches taller than most of the other guys on
the field. Did you scare opponents in that sport?
Speaker 13 (40:45):
Yeah, one on YouTube's my freshman year. If you want
to see my real highlights, watch the junior ones on huddle.
Those are more fun. But yeah, I was bigger than
most of the guys I played against.
Speaker 12 (40:55):
There's just that's how lacrosse is.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
When you got to Ohio State, put on a lot
of muscle to go from being a safety to being
a defensive end. How much did you eat and what
did you eat?
Speaker 12 (41:07):
It was a process.
Speaker 13 (41:08):
I you know, first I was eating anything inside I could,
just to get the weight on me so I could
compete at the high level. And over the years, especially
now I've learned how to eat right, how to eat properly,
and really you know, gain the right kind of weight,
replace that whatever it was fat with muscle.
Speaker 12 (41:26):
Just try to lean out.
Speaker 13 (41:27):
But I till I felt sick every meal for six
months until I gained forty pounds and then ever since then,
just trying to maintain and stay stay in the weight
room extra.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
You never lost to Michigan in four years at Ohio State.
How obnoxious are you when you are around Michigan people?
Speaker 12 (41:47):
Pretty obnoxious?
Speaker 13 (41:48):
Rightfully, So we uh we don't have any love for
that stayed up north, but uh, you know, I can
I feel like I can say whatever I want because
they got no bragging rights.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
We're doing fun facts. That's Sam Hubbard.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
I mentioned your finance degree from Ohio State. You had
internships at Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan in New York.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
What'd you learn?
Speaker 12 (42:08):
I learned a lot.
Speaker 13 (42:08):
I learned how you know, how competitive the business world is.
It's just as competitive as a football field. You know,
there's a special type of you know, people that are successful.
You know, they're determined, they're driven, and they're experts in
their field. And if I want to be successful one
day when I'm done with football in the business world,
(42:29):
I got to take the same approach I took with football.
And that's really the biggest thing I took away from it.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
We're talking to Sam Hubbard after you got drafted your
family and friends about one hundred and sixty four customized
Hubbard number ninety four jerseys from the Bengals Pro Shop.
I know you love them to death, but was it
a little embarrassing?
Speaker 12 (42:47):
Oh no, not at all. That was awesome.
Speaker 13 (42:49):
I thank my aunt Emily and my sister Madison that
organized the whole thing, and everyone just wanted to be
involved and be supportive.
Speaker 12 (43:00):
I'm so thankful for it.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Sounds like the tailgates are pretty legendary in the Hubbard family.
Speaker 12 (43:04):
Yeah, well, no, I've never been to one.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Even postgame. Don't you get to go over there and
say hello? When you're done.
Speaker 13 (43:10):
Oh yeah, but the party usually is died down by then.
But now they they have my friends go. People that
have never been to a House State or Bengals game
go and they tell me that it's the best fun
they've had in the life. So shout out to my
parents for bringing their a game every week.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
What are you do when you have free time?
Speaker 12 (43:29):
A lot of things?
Speaker 7 (43:30):
You know.
Speaker 13 (43:30):
I like to watch movies. I'm gonna consider myself a
movie critic. I like to cook, go out to eat, relaxed, swim, fish,
play golf. I got a lot of hobbies, but pretty
much whatever I'm feeling.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Does the movie buff have an all time favorite?
Speaker 13 (43:47):
I got a couple of all time favorites. I don't
think I can pick one off the top of my
head right now. Maybe Good Fellas, Oh good choice?
Speaker 4 (43:53):
All right?
Speaker 12 (43:54):
Final thing?
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Great athlete, great student, but nobody's perfect. What do you
stink at basketball?
Speaker 12 (44:03):
Really can't shoot.
Speaker 13 (44:05):
All I can do is rebound and pass it off.
That's always been My uncle played basketball at Michigan. You know,
I've always wanted to be good at basketball, but just
wasn't my sport.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Can't be good at everything, right, Appreciate the time, best
of luck this year.
Speaker 12 (44:19):
Nope, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
That's Sam Hubbard.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Sam plans to continue his work in the community through
the Sam Hubbard Foundation and his annual Fowling tournament featuring
current and former Bengals, is coming up on May fifteenth.
Registration opens tomorrow, Friday, March seventh, at nine am. That's
going to do it for this episode of the Bengals
Booth Podcast, brought to you by pay Corp. Proud to
(44:44):
be the Bengals official HR software provider, by Alta Fiber,
future proof fiber Internet designed to elevate your home, business
and community to a new level, and by Kettering Health
the best care for the best fans. Kettering Health is
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