Big Blue Kickoff Live 10/20 | Giants vs Broncos Preview

John Schmeelk and Paul Dottino review the Giants vs Broncos game, talk about the Giants special teams unit, and take calls from fans.

0:00 - Giants vs Broncos preview

17:40 - Calls

24:20 - More on Broncos

34:00 - Special teams

40:00 - More calls

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a Big Blue Kickoff line.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't do it
because you're.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
On giants dot com.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Do you know what I saw?

Speaker 2 (00:12):
New York Giant.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Track and the Giants Mobile seventeen.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
One tuck down.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
We all, we're all tampering.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Part of the Giants podcast network.

Speaker 4 (00:24):
Let's go on with the bunch of crazy dogs. Hi, everybody,
welcome to the Big Blue Kickoff live on this Monday.
It's all brought to you by Cadillac, the official luxury
vehicle of the Giants. We are in the Hackensack Marine
Hell Podcast studio, Keep getting Better. I am John Schmelck.
He is Pauled the Tino. Just a heads up, and
I guess if you're listening to this you already know.
But we are having issues with the site and the app.

(00:48):
But we are streaming live on YouTube right now, so
if you want to tune into the show, make sure
you go check that out. I'll try to get him
to put links up to the YouTube feed up on
both the app and the website. We'll see if that
gets up there. We're working on right now. So I
want to share a little text exchange I had with
Paul Latino in the wee hours of last night. I
don't think Paul had taken off from Denver yet, and
I was in the middle of my post game show.

(01:10):
You guys might have noticed last week. I was not
on Big Blue Kick Off Live at all. I had
a little bit of a procedure last week. Everything is good,
prognosis is awesome. I'm a good shape, I'm fine, I'm here,
We're all good. I worked from home. I did the
show yesterday. So I texted Paul, what was it around
nine thirty last night, or maybe a little earlier than
at nine o'clock.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
The times are all a blur.

Speaker 4 (01:27):
Something like that, and I say, hey, Paul, I called
my doctor and I asked if they could schedule another
surgery for me today instead of having to talk about
this game. And I actually got Paula Tina the laugh
after that Giants kit. So I thought that was I did.
I thought that was a minor miracle. It was, but
that's kind of what felt. That felt like watching that

(01:48):
game yesterday in the fourth quarters, as bad as you
can possibly get, second straight game with the Giants take
a lead with under a minute to go this year,
and to see that game fly away and turn into
a loss because of and look, we can talk about
a million individual plays in this game. Paul and I

(02:10):
just wrote cover three and I com I don't want
to make even more depressed. I compared this loss to
the Knicks game one loss in the Eastern Conference Finals
to the Pacers, oh Man, where you can go back
and look at at least a half dozen plays, and
if just one of those plays would have won a
different way, the comeback would not have been possible, or at

(02:30):
least you.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Didn't bring up Reggie Miller, Thank goodness for that.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
VA callers on the post game last night with Tiki
and I comparing it to the Matt Dodge game, comparing
it to the playoff game against the forty nine ers,
comparing it to the ninety seven playoff game against the Vikings.
Those are the three games that we got comparisons on
and games.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Are different though that's a different level, correct as a
regular season game, and.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
Even the Matt Dodge game was for the division, so
not as important as that game either, just in terms
of how the game was lost, not necessarily the importance
of the individual game. And we'll get into the details,
and guys, we could talk about a million different plays
here and really dive into it. We talked we could

(03:19):
talk for an hour about this game and not take
one call today. That's how many things happened in this game.
I got three pages worth of notes. But we want
to make sure you get to your call. So I'm
gonna be a little broad off the top here and
then we are gonna let you guys kind of get
in and talk about what you want to talk about.
Oh wow, oh boy. Former NFL running back Doug Martin,
the Musclempster, right, that was his nickname. H Yeah, passes

(03:41):
away at the age of thirty six. That not the
put to his family. That stinks anyway, It's horrible. So
you look at this game, Paul, and I'll just broadly
start out with this. The Giants lost this game in
all three. We talk about complimentary football on the show

(04:02):
and you win games, Well, this was uncomplimentary football. This
was the opposite of that. And you had a defense
give up thirty three points in a quarter. Only one
other time in NFL history as a team given up
more than thirty three points at a quarter. Two other
times they've given up exactly thirty three points at a quarter,
and the only reason the team gave up thirty four

(04:23):
points is because an on side kick at the end
of the game was a turn for a touchdown. So
that's like a fake thirty four points. Yes, so you
have that. You have what is the simplest play for
a special teams unit.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
An extra point.

Speaker 4 (04:39):
You missed two of them. You have an offense who
I go back to the Super Bowl with the Falcons
against the Patriots. If the Falcons would have just kneeled
the ball out on non consecutive plays, they would have
won the game. If the Giants would have just kneeled
the ball on sixth straight their last six offensive plays
instead of throwing interception, they would have probably won the game.

(05:02):
The Falcons, the Falcons, the Broncos would have had to
recover an onside kick if they wanted to win that
ball game. But instead you throw an interception, you give
them a short field, and then that changes the entire
tenor of the basketball throwing time management stuff. If you
want throwing two point conversion decisions, if you want wherever

(05:25):
you want to point here, guys, and you want to
blame somebody, We're gonna let you do it, because no
one escapes unscathed. No, when you have this type of
historic collapse at the end of a game. So I'm
going to open up the phones. I'm going to give
you a chance to talk about it. We will dig

(05:45):
into a lot of other stuff as we go here, Paul.
But I thought, broadly speaking, that's where I wanted to
start here, because I really do think it's unfair to
point at one play, one person, or one thing when
you have a collapse of this caliber in a fourth
quarter of a game where you led by eighteen points

(06:06):
with five minutes to play.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Oh, there's no doubt, John. You see, we always point
to the most obvious play at the end of the
game and say, well, that made the difference. So I
applaud your decision to go broad broad scope here.

Speaker 4 (06:22):
And we will talk about that play too. Don't worry, you.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Know, there are so many things would could a all
that stuff, right. But the one thing I will say
about this, and I'm only going to give this to
you folks, not that it is a silver lining. It's
not a silver line. Yeah, I don't think they want
to hear silver lining. It's it's not a silver lining.

(06:46):
But I will say one thing about this this game
that it did show me something that we did not
know before, and that is we saw Jackson Durrett come
back from a serious adversity and his interception terrible throw,

(07:07):
ill advised in every way, bad throw.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
And he said so after the game, and he took it,
stood up and took.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
It, stood up and took it. Knows that that was
a key momentum point in the game, a folk crumb,
if you would, for the final push for the Broncos.
Came back from that and did the necessary things he
had to do to orchestrate a drive that would put
them ahead in the final minute. Now, I will point

(07:34):
out he did this complete one pass on that try understood, understood.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
That was a really nice throw on a fourth and nineteen.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
It was Phil Sims to Bobby Johnson all over again.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
Now, it's funny when I went back and looked at it, Paul,
if they don't get the roughing the passer penalty on
that play, I think they call Robinson short on replay review.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
I didn't think so. I thought it was I thought
he was there.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
I think he's short of the forty anyway. Either way,
it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Having said that, you know everybody is also subjected to
the circumstances surrounding their situation, and in that drive, Dart
did what he had to do.

Speaker 4 (08:08):
Now, he also had two passes that could have easily
been at their septis.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
There was one that the two fanga and the other
said safeties to get into each other. Yes, that's true. Again,
I'm not disputing that correct right. But the kids, Moxie,
we had not seen him in that situation before, and
he did what he had to do given the circumstances
to get them in Paul.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
The offense scored thirty points against what we called the
best defense in football before the game.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
And I want to add one other item on that drive,
the pass interference call. How many times have we seen
an underthrown long ball a fifty to fifty if you would,
where we talk about this a lot where the defensive back,
because he's trailing the receiver, has a better shot to

(08:57):
get the underthrown ball, they collide and it winds.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
Up being a pass interference call. Or for that matter,
with the Giants, they never get that call. Bo Collins
did a good job of a catall he did.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
It was a great job. Bo Collins. I applaud him
immensely because I know why the Broncos were ticked off.
But on that particular play it will get called defensive
pass interference eight out of ten times. Well, if the
receiver makes an effort to show that he was contact.

Speaker 4 (09:32):
I didn't think it was egregious contact. But again the
guy did not his guy. He eventually got his head
turned around the corner, but it was not It was
not early enough.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
It was not.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
And you're right, Paul, you are going to get a
pat defensive passing afference.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
That's a veteran move by Bo Collins.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
Well yeah, I mean you got to attack the football.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
So I just want to throw it out out there,
the drive and the and the move by Collins, which
which resulted in something that a crafty veteran would do,
and then of course Start reaches in to get the
go ahead score. Or again, it's not a silver lining, folks.
I'm not painting it as that, no, but it was
a situation where I'm really glad to see Dark effectively

(10:11):
get them downfield and Collins effectively draw a veterans penalty.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yeah, Dark, that was good. Dark continues to give you
reasons to be hopeful for the future. He does correct. Agreed.
Now let's let let's focus in on that on that
last series. Now, again, I have notes on all five
of the of the Broncos scores in that final quarter,
because there were mess ups and mistakes and and and
botched plays on a lot of them, and we could

(10:38):
talk about a lot of those plays, but let's just
focus in on that one for now. Paul Drew Phillips had,
after I thought a very good first half, had a
very rough second half.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Of the skin.

Speaker 4 (10:49):
Keevon Thibodau I thought had a very rough fourth quarter
in this game. M h played to Bonix runs particularly poorly.
Got called for an off side on a third and five,
and so I think the edge players in general did not.
Burns had a couple of plays, but the other guys.
De Mucagi had a play where he got caught inside
on a run. Caught her some pursuit on some plays

(11:11):
is not what you want to say. But like on
that final play. The one thing I'll fight back on
here is that Giant fans are like, oh, boone played
that prevent defense again, No we didn't, No, he did not.
That is not prevent defense. Now, if you want to argue,
you should rush four instead of three.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
There, that's different.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
Fine, we can have that argument. I will also tell
you the Broncos use seven men to protect on that play,
so I'm not sure that one added rusher would have
made much of a difference. And it's not like Nicks
held the ball for eight seconds back there, No, he
held it a little bit. It was about three a
little over three seconds on average time to throw, I
think three and a half. But they max protected, they
had two chippers. I'm not sure if it's going to

(11:49):
make the difference. Why is Dex Lawrence not in the game.
I don't know the answer to that. Why is aut
duquadon in the game? He looked gast on the last possession.
In fairness, I don't have the answer to that question.
Want to call on yell about that. I'm not gonna
tell you why. I'm sure the coaches have a good reason.
I don't know what it is, so I can't give
you an answer there. But that was not prevent defense.
In the secondary. You're playing man to man defense, and guys,

(12:12):
I went through this with Tiki Barber last night and
we went we talked about it again this morning. It's
man to man defense. With two safeties in the middle
of the field. The Giants have seven guys in coverage,
eight if you count Bobby Okarak. He was kind of
waiting for the running back to come out off the chip.
The Broncos send three players, three players into a route.

(12:33):
If you can't cover three receivers with seven guys, that
ain't a coaching problem. That's a player problem. And I
don't know why, but Drew Phillips is casually jogging next
to Marvin Mims running down the scene when he is
man to man responsibilities and just doesn't close the distance

(12:57):
on the play. I don't have a reason why Tyler
Neuban's in the robber position on that play. He's watching
Sutton coming across the field on a little poster in
cut whatever you want to call it. I guess he
could have been there too, But that is man to
man defense with two robber safeties. That is not prevent defense.

(13:18):
And for some reason they did not execute the coverage
and play that the way they should have. It didn't
look like Mimso was expecting the ball. Frankly, he ran
a little bit of a lazy route too. Yeah, and
the ball just got there. Give Nick's credit. He made
a nice throw, but that was not prevent defense, and
you have to cover better than that in that situation.

(13:40):
You just have to. I don't know what else to
say about the player.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
And then the Courtland Sutton throw that made it an
easy field goal.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
Without that look, could Banks have played a little bit
better covered shore? That was a really nice throw and catch,
Biden Nick. It was a great throw at a great
catch and bow. Nick said after the game they just
drew that play up the day before, had not even
thrown it or to run it and practice. That's true.
I didn't see that.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yes, they saw they saw a look that they were
hoping to get in that spot. Apparently the play was
stolen from two other last second UH situations on tape
with other teams. They had seen it and they said,
if we get in this situation, let's see about pulling

(14:23):
this in. By the way, that was also not prevent defense.
That was man to man with a single high safety
paks was there, correct, He just didn't make it again,
didn't finish it again, which is didn't finish it I know.
So anyway, they get out there.

Speaker 4 (14:36):
And Nick says to uh, Courtland Sutton, let's use that play,
and so they they get the look that they thought
they were gonna get.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
And I don't know what they were specifically looking for.
What was the key that they were looking for? They
get it?

Speaker 4 (14:53):
Well, it was man to man defense, right, I guess
that's it. Yeah, because they send runner, they send something
in motion to try and and and and that gives
you the coverage they.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Wanted to get him away from the outside boundary too.

Speaker 4 (15:02):
And Banks follows. Once you see Banks following from the field,
you know what's man, you know. And so he runs
the route obviously runs it well. Nicks makes a perfect throw,
Sutton makes a nice catch even though Banks is in
the vicinity. And and how about this, he gets out
of bounds.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah he wasn't. I mean he was close.

Speaker 4 (15:23):
No, he didn't. They spiked it.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
They ran up in the spike. Sorry, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
No, it's okay.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
You're right.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
But they had time is they had eighteen seconds on
the play, yes, and they spiked seconds. That's correct, correct, correct.
Paul didn't get a.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Lot of sleep, folks, Oh I didn't get a lot
of believe me. It was did not sleep on the plane.
There's no way I was sleeping on that plane.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
Did you watch a movie?

Speaker 2 (15:44):
To Seth Meyer's credit, one of the SNL alums, he
did a one hour stand up.

Speaker 4 (15:51):
Oh you watch a little seth Meyer's stand up?

Speaker 5 (15:52):
Huh?

Speaker 2 (15:53):
And I saw that on the plane coming back and
it was the only thing that prevented me from jumping
out the window. It was it was well done. Seth
Myers did a really good job. It was a dad's
one hour stand up. Okay, good, all family stuff, dad stuff.

Speaker 6 (16:07):
It was.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
It was good. I didn't laugh, but he prevented me
from crying.

Speaker 4 (16:11):
Okay, Well that's a win.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
It's a win. That's a win. Yes, yes, so anyway,
so yes, so in reference to that play, I mean,
and that's that's the like Courtland Sutton's telling the Denver
media after the game. Oh, we never even ran not
playing practice. We never even throw it. We never we
never ran it.

Speaker 4 (16:27):
And they pull it out here and it works, and
again it just takes away from other things of the
game you talked about. Dart. They score thirty points against
the Broncos defense. That was really good. The tight ends
were terrific in this game. The offensive line played out
of this world. They were great. I didn't re look
at the at the pressure numbers this morning, but as
of last night, I believe between Thomas and illumin Or

(16:50):
they allowed just one pressure in this game, which is
just against that pass rush is really really impressive. Like
I said, there, there there's a million things you can
talk about here, folks, there really is. But let's open
up the phones two one one nine three nine four
five one three two one nine three nine four five
one three don't forg guy, guys, go check out the

(17:10):
Johnson podcast. You can find in the Giants app Giants
dot com Slash podcast. Also on the Giants YouTube channel.
We do great interviews with Giants players, Giants coaches, analysts
around the NFL. The interview with Brian Hoyer last week,
which is a lot on Jackson Dart actually, so if
you guys want to have and watch it, you can
still go back and watch it. You still get something
out of that. The last ten minutes of some matchup
stuff against the Broncos, you can skip that, But the

(17:31):
first fifteen minutes or so was all about Dart and
his development. So I think it's worth it for you
if you want to go check that out. All right,
let us go to the phones at two on one
nine three nine four five one three. Let's lead us
off with Rich and Florida. Rich, what's going on?

Speaker 6 (17:44):
Man?

Speaker 4 (17:44):
How are you?

Speaker 3 (17:45):
Hi?

Speaker 7 (17:46):
John and Godfather and uh poly Dotts. I'm sure. I'm
really glad you didn't jump out of the plane because
we need you for entertainment, to go one v one
with guys like Charlie and Wilson so we can and
you to be entertained by you guys with the mental
band extra.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
I'm glad you find us entertaining.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
That's important, that's part of the component of what it
is that we do. But there is nothing enjoyable about
going at it with Charlie and with Wilson when they
just want to be flying off a cliff.

Speaker 4 (18:18):
I'm just gonna and by the way, they are't gonna
be the only to looking to fly off the cliff today.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
No, I'm sure, I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
And by the way, and understandably so oh yeah, I understand,
Charlie Wilson, give us a break. Okay, let the other
people vent today today. Why did you call us like
in five weeks? Okay, how about Wednesday, Madeline and Sean
On how about you?

Speaker 2 (18:37):
You got there, Charlie Wilson, You really love us, do it?
Do that? Rich?

Speaker 4 (18:42):
Rich? Go ahead? I'm sorry, Rich, go ahead, very.

Speaker 7 (18:45):
Little, very briefly. On the game, John and Paully, your
analysis on the last drive by Denver is completely.

Speaker 4 (18:54):
Correct.

Speaker 7 (18:54):
If I just got through watching a little bit of
Believe with Papa and Carl and exactly right there and
man and man the two robbers. The problem is, I
haven't looked at the dape yet, like Drew Phillips just
jogging along, and that's how they got that all the.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
Men, Rich, I think Drew Phillips, by the way, real quick,
right right, real fast. I think Drew Phillips and Frankly
a lot of the other members of that defense. And
this is not an excuse, it's just a fact. When
I rewatch it this morning, it confirmed and and Tiki
thought this last night too, that defense looked absolutely gassing
that thing exactly. They had nothing left.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
I had that conversation with Howard Cross right after the
game on the MSGRY post game. They had many oxygen
tanks on the bench, yep, okay, And what the players
were told is that anytime you feel like you're huffing
and puffing and you need to go get some go
take a few breaths. It'll give you a little bit

(19:50):
of a re energized feeling, and you should be able
to get through. But here's what I had been told
last week by someone who had coached out in Denver
for several years. They said to me, here's what you
have to watch for. If during the course of the game,
you don't monitor yourself like that and you don't take

(20:11):
those oxygen shots to keep yourself going, you will wind
up reaching a point of no return.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
It's cumulative, Yes, I gotcha. Interesting, Yes, you.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Will reach a point of no return to where now
you can't get it back. There's no second win, John,
that's it. You're gone. You've lost it, got it, and
and you will definitely feel it in the fourth quarter.
And I saw some of that, and again, non excuse,
it's you're still gonna play correct.

Speaker 7 (20:39):
Two quick things, guys. The thing, you know, I go
back to sixty one. So all those other heartbreaking losses
that you discuss, I've been through every one of those,
and the thing is so frustrating. You know, we have
our conference call three eyes all over the world. One
guy was on actually in a cruise ship, my friend
and four monitors yesterday so, and we're doing.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Play by play, he feed himself to the shark.

Speaker 7 (21:00):
Yeah, he's in a Viking cruse ship. Anyway, when we
were up what eighteen or nineteen points, she said, can
we hold this lead? Because we've been through so many
of these heartbreaks and that's what's so frustrating.

Speaker 5 (21:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (21:15):
The reason, real reason I called is does anybody know?
Number one? Did the league have the surgery? And b
was the surgery successful?

Speaker 4 (21:25):
Base I ever appreciate the call. The Giants have not
announced that yet as far as I know, but I
believe there were reports last week that the answer to
both those questions were yes.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
I think i'd heard anything official.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
I think Schefter had it, but I have not heard
anything of the kill.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, you know, I will tell you this rich interesting
thing about you know, leads getting away, and you can
apply this to any team that has lost the lead
in the fourth quarter or late in the stretch. I
I do college basketball games as part of my repertoire,

(22:01):
and what you see a lot of times, and it
even happens in the NBA. John's more of an NBA officionado.
You see teams what they say is take the air
out of the ball. Follow me on this one, John,
And when teams do that too early perhaps, and again
it's all a judgment call. It's very subjective. But in retrospect,

(22:26):
many times a team that was on the losing side
looks back and regrets the timing of when they took
the air out of the ball, and they'll say to themselves, Ah,
you know what, so much would have changed had we
waited a little bit longer. But in the moment, there

(22:48):
is that impetus to take the air out of the ball.
And it happens in football as well as in basketball,
although I think in college hoops it's even more prevalent.
To be frank with you, and I think that's what
your friend was talking about. Giants are up, you know,
by double digits and the fourth quarter, and he's worried

(23:08):
about Okay, at what point, you know, do they maybe
start taking the air out of the ball. And then
that's usually the danger zone if you do it too early,
where the other team might you know, scap up that
momentum and now all of a sudden you can't get
it back now.

Speaker 4 (23:25):
Again, I am not reporting this, I am not confirming it.
I'm simply reading Adam Schefter's report off of ESPN. This
was an October fourth, and I'll just read the report again.
I'm not confirming it. I'm just giving you the information
that Adam Schefter reported Neighbors is expected to undergo surgery
this week for a torn acl and a torn meniscus,
while also allowing a partially torn labor m in turf
toe to heal per purses, per sources, Doctor's wade whether

(23:48):
Neighbors would also need surgery on his labor but ultimately
decided against it. That's what Adam Schefter had in October
fourth of this year. So that's what you got on that.
And you know, usually these surgeries are all successful. They
have the best doctors over at HSS and they do
a great job on this stuff. So I would not
I would not be concerned as to whether or not
it was successful. I'm sure that it was.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
All right.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
Let's go to uh, Lucas in New Jersey. He's up next, Lucas.
What's up?

Speaker 3 (24:11):
Hey, what's up?

Speaker 6 (24:12):
Good?

Speaker 5 (24:13):
Thanks to take my call again, just to put my
put my thoughts in. I thought Wandale was like right
at the cost, It was like it was so hard
to really know if he was I couldn't really tell.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
It was close. It was very close.

Speaker 5 (24:28):
It was so close it could have been like a
half a football shot.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
I don't know, you know what, it would have been great.
Paul would have loved to see the virtual measurement in
such a important They did one of those earlier.

Speaker 5 (24:47):
It was so good they could tell like off sides
and stuff through their camera systems.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
So I don't know.

Speaker 5 (24:52):
Anyway, I did want to say that that dive by
Dart at the goal line was sensational, right right effort
was like just.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Y yes, And by the way I was on the
goal line, it was clear right from the get go.
How did it look on television on the replay?

Speaker 4 (25:11):
Was very clear that he's.

Speaker 5 (25:11):
Clear, I believe from his reaction. I go on the
players reaction, Yeah, oh he knew, and the players they
always know.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
But the judge comes running.

Speaker 6 (25:19):
In and.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
I don't know why. At Dave's came came off the bench,
he was like, oh, look at that. You gotta look
at that.

Speaker 4 (25:27):
Honestly, in retrospect, you wish he didn't get it and
they would have ended up playing waste.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
I know, would I know, I know, I know, unbelievable.

Speaker 5 (25:36):
What else you got lucas, we had fewer dumb penalties,
and it felt like the vibe of the game when
there was a penalty was on the other team. That
was really refreshing.

Speaker 4 (25:45):
Loocause you're right, But I will add this. You cannot
have three delay of game penalties, two on third downs
which turned to third and twelves into third and seventeens.
You also cannot have been off sides on a third
and five inside the red zone, which gives the other
team a first down. So and you can't have the
Drew Phillips pass in the fearence on the fourth and
three slant that set up another Broncos score. So yes,

(26:07):
the big pass in the fearence. Penalties helped the Giants
in this game, But those were some critical penalties that
the Giants did commit that did not help their cause.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Remember these were two of the foremost penalized teams in
the league in terms of drawing flags. Remember that, so
you had to know there was going to be a
bunch of them up both teams.

Speaker 5 (26:27):
So my question is you know we gave up the
big lead. Is the question isn't about how we can
finish better. It's basically you know, why are we not finishing?
Is it? From what you know? I'm a layman, so
from what I saw once we had the really big lead,
It's not like we were playing prevent defense or whatever,
but like we just seemed to kind of play different.

(26:48):
And I know you have to, right, but like putting
the kicker back in there after the point after I
know I'm getting a little bit all over the place,
but like, what do you think we can do to
finish better? And you know, do we have a kicking issue?
Should the punter ticket? Do we need to find someone else?
And I guess I'll take it off there.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
Thank you, Lucas. Look you have young waykup on the
practice squad. That's an option. Gano's windows opening up? Is
it this week? Ball is correct, so you can see
if he's ready to go with that groin injury. So
that's what you got to look at it. Kicker. Look,
I'm not making these decisions, but you've had three missed
extra points.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
In two games.

Speaker 4 (27:20):
And by the way, it's hard to run him back
out there again.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
Another player who stood up and took it.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
He did, And look, Jude was stood up and he
absolutely took it, no question.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
He said, for those of you who may not have
heard it, he said, I'm a pro. I gotta make
the kick no matter what happens. It's my job to
make it, and I need to do it. And he
just missed them.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
And I know Dabele did say the operation on the
first one wasn't great. I looked at it. The ball
did get down in time for him to kick the ball. Yeah,
And Jude made that point.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (27:47):
And by the way, I don't really think that the
defense played that much different, to be honest with you,
when I when I rewatched the tape this morning, I
didn't think so. Look, they allowed some big plays. So look,
you had the a deep pass to Courtland Sutton for
sixteen yards, which is really nice throw. You had a
long run for thirty two yards by by JK. Dobbins

(28:07):
on that first Bronco scoring drive. Abdul Carter got caught
inside a little bit on that pitch play. You had
just the kind of freaky deflection on the touchdown play,
which was just a bad luck deal. Jihan's got one
of those themselves too. Yes, all's fair, yes, right, yes.
Then on the next drive, Look, it wasn't like that
was a drive that was full of big plays. That

(28:28):
was a kind of kind of slow drive that took
five minutes to go seventy four yards, where the Broncos
didn't get a ton of chunk plays on that drive
to give them sixteen points. You had a twenty one
yard Bonnick scramble on that drive. But other than that,
I don't think you know another play that went for
more than ten yards. So that was kind of just

(28:50):
a slow, methodical drive.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
One that made it twenty six to sixteen. Yes, didn't
they got the twelve yard or on the second and
ten from the nineteen.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
Second nineteen Uh, yes, that was a screen pass. You're
out this, Yes, you'll do a twenty run by next
and then you're right. The next play or two plays later,
was the screenplay to Baty, where again I think maybe
a little bit of undisciplined there on the Nick scramble.
De mckagee got caught inside a little bit on that
play on the screen A couple giant pass rushers got

(29:23):
caught up field that allowed that play. But again in
that situation, Paul, you're up eighteen points, yep, and you
make a team use five minutes of clock to score
a touchdown. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but
that's what you want to do. You want to make
the team use time to score a touchdown there. The
problem is that the next play next series.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Oh, you throw the throw it down.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
And if you just punting the if you just take
the sack there or run the ball on third down, yes,
the Broncos are getting the ball back with about four
minutes and forty seconds to go, Well, it would be
having to go the length of the field. It would
be less because if you take if you run the
play on third one, I'm assuming the Broncos are calling
timeout because I'm assuming you use their third time out there.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Okay, so you use it there, So you punt the ball,
give a ten seconds.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
Fine, forty five okay, whatever it is. Yeah, you got
to go the length of the field in four to
thirty five with no timeouts down two scores. The chance
of you winning the game there is nil on board
with It's very small chance of you winning that game.
And that's why that pick was so brutal. And then,
by the way, after the pick, you allow them to

(30:29):
score in three plays, you get him into a third
and five. Then Thibodeau commits that off side penalty and
that gives him a first down on that truck. Then
the next time down you have the Then you start
allowing the chunk plays right. Then you have the MIMS
play for the next Broncos drive. You have the MIMS
play for thirty one again beats Drew Phillips down the
right sideline. He kind of throws behind them a little bit,

(30:50):
he comes back and gets the ball. Then you have
the little ingram out route where again Drew Phillips decide
to try to play two a touch and not push
the guy bounds. Well, you got twenty yards on that play,
got twenty yards which should have been like an eight
yard game something like that. And then I don't know
what Kevon Thibodeau's doing on that zone read option play

(31:10):
where he has Bonix dead to right and Nick keeps
the ball and runs twenty one yards for the touchdown.
It wasn't the five minute scoring drive that was the problem.
It wasn't even the short quick drive after that. Up
twenty six twenty three, you let the Broncos go sixty
eight yards in fifty one seconds. Sixty eight yards and

(31:30):
fifty one seconds on six plays for a touchdown. That
was the backbreaker.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Well, the third and eleven to Mims.

Speaker 4 (31:39):
That was the deep pass down the right side for
thirty one yards.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, of those plays, even the Ingram and the Knicks
plays that capped the drive, don't kill me as much
as the third time.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
And Paul, I'll even go back to the longer drive.
You had them in a first and twenty, a first
and twenty up twenty six to eight after a holding
penalty by Garrett Bull. Yeah, it's first in twenty on
denverse thirty nine yard line, all right, and you allow
them to get eighty yards. Then you're in a third
and twelve, and then the fourth and three you commit

(32:10):
the defensive pass interference penalty. Yes, Then on the next
drive you have him on the third and five and
Keevan Tabudau commits the off sides penalty, and then to
your point, they have him in the third and eleven,
you allow him to convert. There so so many opportunities
to the defense to get off the field and make
a play, which is and a lot of those mistakes
we're talking about, Paul, guys were in a position to
make a play. They just did not execute and make

(32:33):
the plays when they had to get off the field.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, it was a complete breakdown. And I again I
don't I said this to you on the fan post game.
I don't want to use that as an excuse at all.
But they weren't sharp. They look like they look.

Speaker 4 (32:49):
Like they know they were not playing the way they
did know for that game. No, to me, the plays
did not look different, the execution of the place different physically,
That's what it looked like to me watching the take, it.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Looked like it was more physical stuff than mental stuff.
At that point. I completely agree, which is why I
tend to give credence to them being gassed. But you
got to play four corners.

Speaker 4 (33:10):
You have to finish it again and again you make
one play there and again I will say that's going
off sides on a third and five.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Well that, yes, I agree with that.

Speaker 4 (33:20):
That's meantal now.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Also, I forget which player it was. Was it not
Show or was it Dexter? After the game said you
know what, even if guys were, you gotta have replacements,
Guys you can rotate in who are going to be
capable of them doing the job. You can't use the
excuse that some guys are gassed, well, then get them
out of there, put somebody else in there and make

(33:43):
sure they're not gassed them that they can they can
make the play.

Speaker 4 (33:46):
All right, Let's go to Andrew in North Carolina. He's
up next, Andrew. What's happening?

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Man?

Speaker 3 (33:51):
Hey, how are you guys doing? You guys always do great?

Speaker 4 (33:54):
Thank you?

Speaker 3 (33:56):
Please tell me I'm dreaming of nightmare with this kidney situation?
Can we That's the first and foremost thing. What happened
with the kicker? This is beyond ridiculous. I don't I've
never seen a coaching Reginian handle us not having a

(34:18):
kicker missing extra points. This feels like insanity. Guys, what
happened there? Again?

Speaker 4 (34:28):
Mcatomney did not get the job done on two extra points.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
He said he thought he hit the second one well,
and he thought he had made it and then looked
up and said, oh, I see it was wide right.
He's like, I hit it good. The giants what was good?

Speaker 4 (34:42):
The Giants decided they preferred him over young Waiku. That's
who they elevated mcatomney instead, and he did not get
the job done.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
By the way, they had two weeks of competitions and
Mcatomney won both weeks and they decided to put him
on the fifty three.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Correct, So this was not a split second decision. They
let both of these guys, you know, kick and kick
and kick and kick and knack at Tommy one. I
mean see, they they vetted this out.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
I don't think I have an issue with that. I believe,
I arge you guys mentioned it earlier this season. It's
the fact that we once again trusted Graham Deno to
start this season. I don't know if you put that
on the gym and a coach or as a collective,
but we decided to go through this same thing again
with Graham Denot and he can't play. So now we're

(35:33):
look up for kickers and they just don't get the
job done, and it costed us another game. Of My
second concern with the game, I believe it was fourth quarter,
three minutes left. We get two straight hard run plays
on the Jackson interception. Job. Actually, why are we throwing

(35:55):
the football? I believe they had one time out. Why
are not running the ball and kicking it deep into
their territory so that they have to go the length
of the field down in eleven with no timeouts, and
if you do want to call a pass play, why

(36:16):
not take it back to my team in football days,
call him a quarterback rollout and if it's not there,
keep the clock ticking with a sack. I don't I
don't think Jackson should have had responsibility to process and
go through a drop back pass play. There was no
need to. I don't even think there was a needed
to get a first down. Just show the clock, make
a usion another time out, and make them go the

(36:39):
length of the field down eleven with three minutes left
to play. And my final thing was I just wanted
to know you guys' thoughts and of future. I know
the coaches don't matter. You can't get too much into that.
But John Merrick said he's tired of saying teams going
up and down the field. This Cowboys debacle and this

(37:01):
yesterday it was gastrous. The only thing Sagan Dave ball
right now and Shane maybe is not having the change
systems for Jackson dark. Other than that, I don't. I mean,
we bought Sa Kwan, we got Indiana Jones and Indieapolis
h we we we looked like a joke and this

(37:24):
regime is hanging on to Jackson dark. Right, now, this
is all we got. The jack Kicks aren't hitting. Jude
Phillips was great sometimes, you know, when La Neighbors was
a no brainer, even though I heard a lot of
people say they had him over Marvin Harrison. So I
don't really give him a lot of credit for that one.

Speaker 4 (37:44):
But all right, Andrew appreciate the call. Man. Look, look,
dud dude, I get it.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
We just talked about that one series you refer to
a little while ago. The clock is your best friend
in that situation, and I don't think what's the best
way to say this. I don't think you're wrong to
question there about trying to just all right, run punt

(38:15):
put them in worse field position, John and I mentioned
so maybe you take another ten seconds off, but you're
also tilting the field, which is a very very big
deal because you'd like to believe that if you tilt
the field, it will cost them quite a bit of seconds,
if not a minute or two to even get back
to where you just gave the ball up on the interception.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
So that to me is yeah, that's when I started
to get.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Really really sick to my stomach.

Speaker 4 (38:44):
To be honest, Yeah, I get where you're coming from.
Tiki felt very strongly about that in the postgame last
night too. That was his kind of big thing. Let's
go to scott New Jerseys up next, Scotty Doo. What's up?

Speaker 8 (38:56):
But afternoon, guys, how you doing?

Speaker 4 (38:58):
We're great? What's going on?

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Man?

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Okay?

Speaker 8 (39:00):
So this loss, yes, they feels worse than the San
Francisco loss in the playoffs to Sorel Loans and Jeff Garcia.
I mean this is that's totally a blown game, and
that goes on the coaching. The two points I want
to make. First of all, I want to touch back
to the first half of the game. They just stack
phone nicks on second down. They're facing a third and long.
They have two timeouts in their pockets. They're facing a

(39:23):
third and fourteen. I believe I don't think they're going
to put the ball in the edther way they played
in the first half. Why are we not burning a
time out there? You know they're gonna probably run the ball.
We take our last time out. Maybe a bad punch,
fat snap, maybe a Gould retermed. Maybe we get into
them some kind of range where we can try to
do something for the end of the first half. That
was frustrating. Number one. Number two, we're gonna figure back

(39:44):
off the last call.

Speaker 3 (39:45):
Or this call.

Speaker 8 (39:46):
Okay, they may get a tend point game with five
thirteen left. Okay, run the ball twice third down. We
decided to throw the ball. Why in God's earth are
we throwing the ball.

Speaker 6 (39:56):
In third down?

Speaker 8 (39:57):
We're gonna make we gotta make them burn their third
time out. Okay, we punch the ball, hilt the field
like you said, Paul, hilt the field back in off favor.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Okay.

Speaker 8 (40:06):
Now they have to really score before the two point
these two minutes timeout because they have no timeouts left, okay, none.
So if they score before that, they get the time
two minute one and then the clockets it off favor.
So even if they we go three and out again,
they're going to get the ball with minimal times left
to do anything.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
No and caaul it. Honestly, I'm not even sure if
depending on how quickly they score there, they might just
try an onside kick. They might try to kick it
off in that spot.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Very possible that.

Speaker 8 (40:36):
That was my second point, Johns. They scored, if it
took them to like two minutes, they have to go
on side kick correct, the odds are in off favorite.
To recover that and end the game, you have to
play situational football. This is another blown lows on coaching.
I'm sorry to coaching now.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
By the way, I will just say, I think their
decision at the end of the first half is situational
football the way you're talking about it too, right, even
if you looked at the Giants drive before were they
punted it away from Dent to Denver. When they punted
it away with one to eleven to go in the
first half, they really weren't trying to score on that drive.
So I think they were happy because of the thirteen

(41:11):
to nothing lead, and you don't want to again make
a big mistake at the end of the half to
turn it over and give the Broncos an easy chance
to score. So I almost wish they would have taken
that stance as you got into the latter part of
the game. You know what I mean.

Speaker 8 (41:25):
I understand I'm just saying, but I mean, you have
a very good return and very shorthanded return it back
there on, no chefsky, you know, make them punch the ball.

Speaker 6 (41:32):
That fair.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
I got you.

Speaker 4 (41:33):
That's fair, I got you.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
It's not a bad point. I don't think it's nearly
as debatable though as some of the other things that
we've brought up.

Speaker 8 (41:39):
Yeah, well, I said I with the third down play,
I think table's got to say that sack and no circumstances,
do you throw this football? Okay, we have to make
them burn their last time out.

Speaker 4 (41:50):
Well, yeah, I think you say to them, you only
throw this if it's like a guaranteed catch, like because
you don't want the cloth to get stopped and you
cannot under any circumstance on the ball over.

Speaker 7 (42:01):
And they did.

Speaker 8 (42:02):
They did the same thing again on the next possession.
On those third down in eight, they tried a deep
shot down the middle to Robinson, what are.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
We that's different?

Speaker 4 (42:10):
Well, at that point, the clock's not your friend, because
even if you run it there, the Broncos are still
getting the ball back with over two minutes to play, right,
So at that point a little different I understand on
that one, a lot more trying to go for the
first down given the fact that Broncos scored so quickly
after the turnover. I'll give you the exact time left
on the clock on that on that third down on

(42:31):
the third eight on the overthrow to Robinson. There were
still two fifty six to play there, so the Broncos
are getting the ball back probably before the two minute warning,
and they all have a chance with the two minute
warning to drive the ball. I don't know what you're
looking at. Sixty five yards in just over two minutes,
only down three. I don't mind going for the first

(42:51):
down there and trying to get the kill shot. I
don't mind.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
By the way, Lutz hit a sixty three yarder in
pract remember.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
You're in you're in the altitude of Denver. He could
he probably could have made one from sixty five or
sixty six.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
So yeah, I'm with John on that one.

Speaker 8 (43:05):
That's a little different job making a higher percentage pass play.
I didn't I didn't like the call of the wall.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
He was, Oh, you know what, they'll remember, that's not
necessarily the only option on the play. That's the pass
that Dark decided to throw. There were other guys running
shorter routes on that play and Robinson was open. He
was And that's the other thing about Dark end of
this game too. He missed about three deep shots where
he could have high him. I gotta be honest. One
the Robinson the one the high and then the one
that he underthrew the bowl Collins that could have been picked,

(43:32):
which then under through that too. No, I mean the
one in the middle of the field with the two
Staeties ran into each other. Yes, yeah, I was also
under throw. It was those four that were underthrown.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Then the one to Hiat it was right in front
of me and a half separation on the guy, right,
That's exactly what you want Hi to do.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
Thanks to the call he missed him. Yeah, absolutely, I
mean yeah, he overthrew those two and then he under
threw the other two.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Again, I'm not gonna take away some of the promise, yes,
of what Dart did do and did show us, But
there were still rookie moments, you know, there were and some.

Speaker 4 (44:07):
Passes that were not exactly where they needed debate, No,
and some short ones in the first half of that
game where you could tell I thought he played a
little sped up early in this game. He was a
little concerned about the Broncos pass rush, and he missed
a couple of the short throws and I get it.
Thirty sacks, right, I got it.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
And by the way, they were coming after him hard.
They were not taking it easy. I think they had
a poster of Jackson Dart on their post office wall.
I mean they were really foaming at the mouth to
get after him, and I thought, considering those circumstances, you know,
Dart kind of weathered the storm pretty darn well. I
mean he got a lead, yeah, pretty bigly.

Speaker 4 (44:43):
I look the bottom line here. They scored over thirty
points against one of the best defenses in the league,
So I know that. I mean, you can't. I can
pick apart a bunch of individual plays where I thought
Darkerd than things that were better. But when you walk
away and you score thirty points against the Broncos defense,
I can't. How am I supposed to be critical walk
away from that game?

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Right?

Speaker 4 (45:01):
Can't. Let's go to Corey and Arizona. He's up next.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
Hey Corey, Hey, how are you guys doing?

Speaker 4 (45:06):
We're good man, what do you got.

Speaker 5 (45:09):
Uh?

Speaker 9 (45:10):
I just wanted to say, we need to extend Wander
Robinson before the trade deadline, because if we don't, it'll
be a lot more expensive by the end of the season.
I think it's pretty funny how they had zero problem
handing their little Golden trialist, Aarius Slayton the number two
receiver job and the contract essention, but won't extend Wandale.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
I mean Corey, And in fairness, wandel has been in
and out and hasn't exactly been nearly as consistent as
Slayton was in his time here. He's also had some Yeah,
and he's also a slot only guy too.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Well. Yeah, And by the way, I don't I don't
want to be I don't want to be defensive with you.
But how do any of us know if they've even
had a conversation with him?

Speaker 4 (45:55):
Yeah, I don't know the answer to that. And Corey,
by the way, I don't you talk about how he's
gonna be much more expensive. I'm not sure that he's
ever going to be a big money wide receiver re
signing type of deal. I'm just not remember. And and
by the way, you know he did have like a
warn Yeah, I mean, and he also had as in

(46:18):
the league. I mean, I don't think he's shown that.
I mean, he maybe he'll be that this year. He
hasn't shown that so far in his career. And I
love one that he's a good player. I hope he's
here a long time. But it's just if usual that
the production.

Speaker 9 (46:30):
With the revolving door of quarterbacks, and the only receiver
in the NSC spot receiver in the NFC that more
last year was Jacksons Jacob.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
In terms of well, I mean, if you want to talk,
we can talk about receiving yards too, in terms of
what that looks like instead of receptions. But I remember
did of this game. He also dropped the ball in
a two point conversion. You're the goal line, and he's
very fortunate that the ball that went right off his
hands bounced to THEO Johnson for a forty one yard touchdown.
Otherwise that's a critical job at the end of this
game that hit him right in the hands.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
I mean, look, if you want to tell me that
a player is going to get elite money at his position,
last year he averaged less than ten yards to catch.
And that's not to belittle him in any way. I
mean it was well under but it was yes, and
that's and.

Speaker 4 (47:15):
Again both of us loved one. Now he's a good player.
We hope he's here for a long time. By the way,
great teammate. Correct, Well, you're not getting elite money unless
your production is elite now, and it's not now. If
you want to make the You know, remember he is
a pregent after the year, so you'd rather make decisions
on these guys sooner rather than later. I get where
you're coming from that, but I wouldn't worry about them like,
oh man, now they gotta fay him twenty million dollars

(47:36):
a year. I don't think that's what we're gonna end
up seeing there. To be honest with you, I could
be wrong, but who knows.

Speaker 5 (47:42):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 9 (47:43):
I don't think he's getting elite receiver money, but I
do think he is one of the best slot receivers
of the league.

Speaker 4 (47:48):
Now, he's a good player. You got anything else to us, Corey?

Speaker 9 (47:53):
Yes, if we can get Jalen Mordles for a couple
twos of three and a five, what is one reason
we shouldn't pull the figure.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
On that deal?

Speaker 4 (48:01):
Well, I appreciate the call, Corey. We can't talk about
guys that are on their contract with other teams. I
can just say Jay and Waddle is a really good player.
He already got his contract extension, So I'm not sure
why the Dolphins would want to do that, To be
honest with you.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Their coach has already said that Waddle is not on
the trade.

Speaker 4 (48:20):
Ploine and I since you already paid him and the
team that's getting him does not have to pay the
signing bonus. To me, that's remember when they traded for
Brian Burns, they had to pay him afterwards. That's why
that only cost it two. Right, If you're trading for
a player that's already been paid and he's in a
contract for three more years, that price is going to
be higher.

Speaker 9 (48:40):
Now.

Speaker 4 (48:40):
I know you mentioned two two's and maybe a couple
of mid round pick. Sure you're sitting here two and five.
You want to trade draft picks and assets for players.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
I asked the question last week, John, if the Giants
were going to make a move for a receiver, wouldn't
it be more prudent to wait for this game to
be played out and out what your record is then?

Speaker 4 (49:01):
Because three and four is a lot different than we
cannot talk about the Giants acquiring a player from another team.
They're on their contract another player. I'm a team in play.
The Giants can literally get fined for tampering, So I'm
not going to talk about that. I can't, but I
think you have to always look at the other team,
what their goals are, what the player's contract situation is,

(49:24):
what you have to pay them, and then figure out
what the cost would be. And I think that's how
I will kind of look at it. Yeah, I mean, look,
I appreciate your creativity of trying to address a need
for the team. I understand somebody wanting to discuss that,
but there are so many factors involved in making a

(49:45):
pairing work. I just think that, you know, with that
loss yesterday, if I were a GM of Team X,
I would be less.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Inclined to make a move of that nature.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
Two one nine, three nine four five one three excuse
and we sort of late, Johnny, Max, We'll go to
around thirty five today. All right, let's go to letting
Columbia Maryland. Then what's going on? Man?

Speaker 6 (50:06):
Oh wow, I tell you that was a bad one.
Let another day after a loss. And I think that's
what bothers me more than anything. I just you know,
the last two years, at this time we were two
and six. We could be two and six next Sunday.

Speaker 4 (50:25):
And by the way, asking to sweep the Eagles with
the second game in Philly is a And look, I
don't think Philly was that impressive as Minnesota. Yesterday but
big picture, sweeping the Eagles with the second game in
Philly in three week span. It's a tough ask.

Speaker 6 (50:38):
Yeah, there you go, And then what that means. You know,
I didn't want to give the game to the Eagles.

Speaker 4 (50:44):
No, I don't want to do that either.

Speaker 6 (50:45):
Your description there is correct, and I guess what I
want to say about that is, we're two and six again.
I don't care about the competition, what teams are better
than others. Two we're likely going to be two and
six again.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
And by the way, I will say this about the competition.
You know, we always joke and this is Lance's big thing,
and he is largely correct about it. Don't Tom I
said that that. You know, you look at the schedule
in the spring, and you know the teams don't matter
as much as what the teams look like when the
Giants play them. And I think now that we look
at it, look, the Cowboys are fine, but they can't

(51:28):
stop anyone. The Commanders have struggled this year. You played
the Chiefs well before they were playing their best football.
You play the Chargers without Joe Alt and Rashawn Slater,
which certainly hampered their ability to play. And no Khalil Mack.
By the way, on defense, you end up playing the
Eagles without Jalen Carter and without Quinne and Mitchell, and

(51:49):
then you end up and I'm missing one team. So
a lot of the opponents we thought were gonna be
super duper tough, you ended up not getting those teams
necessarily a full strength to well.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
And the team that we were all hoping they play
early in New Orleans wound up be them being a
charity case.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
Correct, exactly right.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
So you know the whole WNL thing before the year
is just foolishness. Len you know what I will say,
and let me let me, let me make this one
quick point.

Speaker 4 (52:19):
You have plenty of time. No where, you have plenty
of time.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
We have always been asked many, many many times on
this program, John and I get it all the time,
no matter where we go, oh you know how many wins,
what record?

Speaker 4 (52:33):
How would you feel of this?

Speaker 2 (52:34):
And everybody throws these hypotheticals at us, right, we get
a thousand hypotheticals all the time, And what we always
say is you have to let it play out because
not every win is the same, not every loss is
the same. You yourself lend you feel differently this morning
than when they lost to Washington opening day.

Speaker 4 (52:54):
Right, it's not the same. They are different, and that's
stuff does matter. And I don't know what the giant
record is going to be at the end of the year.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
Neither do you, John Noy, and neither do we know
how they're going to get there. But all that stuff matters.
Just a great opportunity to just bring that up, because yeah, yeah,
people just love to look at the one loss record
and think that it's a black and white number and
that's the be all end all. Well it is as
far as the NFL giving you a ticket into the playoffs,

(53:27):
but it's not a be all end all when you're
an organization, try to figure out where you're going, Tyler.

Speaker 6 (53:32):
Go ahead, Yeah, yeah, I was going to say to
add to what you're saying, Paul, and I get this
is that you know, last January, when when we found
out that, you know, the coaches were coming back, the
general manager was coming back, mister Parris was asked, what
do you you know? What do you what do you think?
What do you need to see? And he said, I
just need to feel better about the team, you know.

(53:54):
But yesterday was that opportunity for him to feel better
about the team.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
Well in this stakes, but to do what's thinks about it,
because you're right, the record looks the same. But I
actually do feel better about the team at this point
this year than I have over the last two seasons.
Now does that matter because there's record still is what
it is. No, But I think you do actually feel
better about the component parts on the roster.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
You do think it's a better roster, do you not?

Speaker 6 (54:20):
I think it's a better roster?

Speaker 5 (54:21):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (54:22):
And do you not think that some of.

Speaker 6 (54:23):
The it's not you know, it's not showing itself. I
mean we're seeing no absolutely, I mean we can't win,
you know, come on, growth is two in a row.
I mean, you know you got to you gotta win
too in a row. That's one start to me feeling
really better about this team. But let me talk about

(54:45):
yesterday A couple of things.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
Real.

Speaker 6 (54:47):
I suspect the facility tomorrow is going to be loaded
with kickers. I mean, if Kup wasn't ready to kick
this week, if he lost out to Mac you know,
during the week in the in the tryout, I suspect
they're not looking at Coop as the replacement. I think
we're gonna I think there's going to be a lot
of visitors tomorrow. Secondly, maybe that passed to Mims. That

(55:10):
passed the mems there on the next of the last
play never should have gotten there. I mean it just
it never should have reached them. It looked like they
were looking for somebody else to make a play. They
were each saying to themselves, somebody else is gonna make
a play. No one wanted. I got the feeling nobody

(55:32):
wanted to make that play.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
Well, and that is that is man to man. It
is Drew Phillips man. It is his responsibility to make
that play.

Speaker 6 (55:39):
Yeah, when you got five guys, say, is that what
the other four are thinking?

Speaker 5 (55:44):
John?

Speaker 6 (55:45):
Are the other four sitting they center? Drew's going to
make that quis.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
Well, no, no, no, no, I can tell you Bo
Braid is your deep safety. He's making sure no one
gets behind you and makes a big play over the top.
And Tyler Newman sitting in that Robbert position and he's
got his eyes on the Broncos number one wide receiver
Corlanson who's being covered by Deonta Banks making an incut
and he's getting underneath that route. So that's what the
other two guys on that side of the field are doing.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
There's really no one else in position to help Phillips
out there is what he's driving.

Speaker 4 (56:12):
I mean, new Ben could have been, but I understand
him watching sun another responsibility.

Speaker 6 (56:18):
Correct, they were gassed, and I understand everything you're saying.
Quite five seconds quick shout out to River Hill High
School right here in Howard County of Maryland. Bou Brady
uh boo braid excuse me, a graduate of that high school.
I saw him playing high school. Good for him. I'm
glad he's in the pros. The you know again, it's

(56:42):
it's it's this, it's this opportunity. You know, I was
not the original back in January. I was the original
negative thinker. I'm the guy who said was the first
one to say on this show, we're a you're away
of being a year away. He did say that, and
I still think, I still think that's where we are.
But just it was a really big, big, big opportunity

(57:04):
for growth for this team that is this organization. Yesterday,
I disagree that was that was a terrible loss. Hey
there's another game next week.

Speaker 4 (57:15):
Let's get them Giant let's beat the Giant. Thank you,
thank you for calling in. You're right. They had a
chance to be the good team in their building on
the road and then they had every opportunity to do
it and they failed.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
And I think when we talked on the post game
last night, John, I think that that, to me is
what the locker room felt. They were really, really in pain.

Speaker 4 (57:36):
And I talked with today. I was on a melousas
on Saturday morning on the fan and I said, Moose,
I'm gonna pump the brakes. I'm not going to talk
about the standings. I'm not going to talk about the
Eagles record and the Giants record. I'm gonna give it
a week and I'm going to see where we are
before i start talking about that stuff. And you know what,
the Eagles looked like they were in danger against the

(57:58):
Vikings in the early window. The Commander's lost to Dallas.
You could have been going into Philly next week with
the same record as the Commanders at three and four, right,
and only a half game behind Dallas at three three
and one and two games behind Philly. And if you
win that game in Philly, you can start having a

(58:20):
not pining the sky, but a real legitimate conversation about
the division.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
The baseball analogy would be, you could have put yourself
in the on deck circle.

Speaker 4 (58:29):
Yeah, you could have. Would you would have been at
the plate. You wouldn't have been, you know, ready to go,
and you know, controlling your own destiny and all that stuff.
But you could have started to have the conversation. Yeah,
and now I agree. Now you're three games back of
first You're you know, a game back of Washington, You're
game and a half back of Dallas, and you're one

(58:49):
and two in the division. The tie breakers don't look great.
You're in Philly next week now and doesn't look quite
as good given where they could have been after that
game against the Broncos. All Right, I find call. The
show is Tyree in Texas. Tyree, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (59:05):
Hey man?

Speaker 10 (59:05):
How's this going?

Speaker 6 (59:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (59:06):
We're good man. What do you got?

Speaker 5 (59:08):
So?

Speaker 3 (59:08):
I just I just had a Well.

Speaker 10 (59:09):
First, I want to say that I do believe that
we are a lot better than we were obviously you know.

Speaker 6 (59:15):
Previous years.

Speaker 4 (59:16):
Yeah, I agree, this loss.

Speaker 10 (59:18):
Did it hurt, but it did show. I think it's
to show a lot of our fan base that, you know,
we do have a great opportunity in the future, but
I did want to get y'all's take on. You know,
it was third and four, they had what one time
out left? Why do we not run the ball there?
Make them burn the time out? Obviously they got to
kick an on side kick. That's you know, practically impossible

(59:40):
to catch it. Now take it that. You know, you
got to let everyone know before it happens, So you know, like,
what what do y'all think about? You know that what
happened there?

Speaker 4 (59:49):
Tyrie appreciate the call. We've gone a few calls about that,
and Tiki Barber talked about a ton on the post
game show last night, and we we get where you're
coming from on that. We understand and you don't want on.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Peyton has been known to dare other coaches in terms
of his on side kick selections. As we remember when
he was with the Saints. I was almost thinking he
might even try it on that first touch after we
got that first touchdown to make it a two score game.

Speaker 4 (01:00:18):
You think that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
I thought he might try it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
I think with three timeouts, you're not there yet.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
Again, I think he made the right call, obviously, but
I bet you he contemplated.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
It and by the way, oh that guy, and I
will say this again. Brian Dabele could have had that
conversation with Jackson Dart before the play, like, Jackson, look,
I believe in you are my guy and my kaf
Gato and Shay Tierney. Remember you have a timeout after
the previous play, so you can have a small conversation
during that time out on the sideline before the play.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Good.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
Brian Dabele could have very much said to Jackson Dark Look, Jackson,
we're gonna You've made plays for us all game. You've
been very promising the first three starts of your career
without saying this, but you know what I mean. We're
gonna give you a chance here to win this game
and seal it away.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
But but but understand.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
You cannot give the ball away on this like, under
no circumstances. If this is a contested catch, if some
guy's grabbing your leg as you're throwing it, whatever, can
you put this ball in any sort of danger? And
that conversation might have happened now. Tiki made the argument
last night he's a rookie, you can't put him in

(01:01:39):
that situation. I get that argument, too, But at some point,
and Jackson Dart again took the heat for his decision
after the game. M you cannot make that play even
if it's an incomplete pass. Is that ideal? No, you
leave the Broncos with a timeout, but you're still punting
the ball away and you're making them go to the
length of the field instead of giving it to them

(01:02:00):
in your own territory. So I don't know what that
conversation was like, I don't know what was said, but no,
that would have surprised me if that conversation happened before
that third downplay. No, that would not surprise me if
that conversation happened.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
Game flow is so important, and there was a chance
for the Giants to control the narrative and the game flow,
and instead they wound up giving it away. I will
say this, Tom Green, the legendary after U basketball coach
here in New Jersey, friend of mine and John knows
them well, always says the best thing about freshmen is

(01:02:40):
that they're going to be sophomores. And the truth is, yes,
rookies will be rookies.

Speaker 4 (01:02:48):
Yeah, And when you're depending on a lot of younger
players with the Giants are especially at positions that handle
the football and awful lot. I think that's what that's
what you get sometimes. And even with that play though,
they still had every opportunity to win this game, and
they they did then just did get to your point,
Jackson came back to a big defensive pass interference penalty,
made a big plan of fourth and nineteen, and they

(01:03:10):
had a chance to win the game anyway, and they
once again just failed to make the plays necessary to
close this one out. All right, everybody, that's all we
got here for Big Blue Kickoff Live. Just a reminder,
it's finally is the last week you hear me reading this, folks.
We just snill remind everybody this week the Giants Foundation
five K race is here. It's coming your way this Sunday,

(01:03:31):
October twenty sixth nine am Metlive Stadium Net. Proceeds will
benefit the Giants Foundation. All participants will receive a commemoraive
T shirt After the race, stay for a festival. Giants
legends will be there. Tiki Barber is one of them.
I think Caius is going to be there too, if
I'm not mistaken and alive DJ Register now with Giants
dot Com Slash five k The Giants Foundation is a
five to one C three nonprofit corporation. Guys, the reason

(01:03:53):
this is cool is neither the Jets or the Giants
are home next week, which is why they're able to
do this. You literally run I think the finish lines
in the stadium right, If I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
I don't know, because every time they do it, we're
away and I can't put that's the.

Speaker 4 (01:04:06):
Same video of prior races, and I see people running
across the finish line in the stadium. So I think
you get to like run like up the ramp and
that's kind of like that is a cool lap of
the race, and you get to kind of run into
the stadium. I think that's how it works. I could
be wrong, Johnny Mack. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong
about that. I think something. I think it's I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
I could be wrong about that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
But it's cool. You get to be around the stadium,
you get to be here. It's a good get a
T shirt, you get to hang out Giants, legends, all
that stuff. It's a lot of fun. So go again.
Giants dot com slash five k to sign up for
Paul's Aatino. I am John Schmelk. Thanks for being with
us on Big Blue Kickoff Live. You might think I
know who's on the show tomorrow. I don't, so tune
in tomorrow and find out from the Hacket Sackbrity Health

(01:04:45):
podcast studio. Keep Getting Better. That's Big Blue Kickoff Live,
presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle the Giants will
see tomorrow at twelve thirty. Everybody