Big Blue Kickoff Live 10/27 | Giants vs Eagles Review

John Schmeelk and Paul Dottino review the Giants game against the Philadelphia Eagles, discuss the key plays in the game, and take calls from fans.

0:00 - Eagles review

27:30 - Calls

37:10 - More on the Eagles game

44:10 - Cam Skattebo

50:00 - Giants defensive line

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a Big Blue kickoff line.

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because you're.

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On Giants dot Com.

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Speaker 2 (00:18):
One tuck down. We were Old Tamper.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Part of the Giants podcast network.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Let's go on, craz Dogs has a hot Hello everybody,
it's Monday. It's not a happy Monday. Welcome the Big
Blue Kickoff Line, presented by Cadillact, the official luxury vehicle
of the Giants. I am John Schmelke, joined us always
by Paul Datino. As we go over the giants thirty
eight to twenty defeat at the hands of the Philadelphia
Eagles in Philadelphia, right here in the Giants Podcast Studio

(00:46):
presented by hackensackobordinan health keep getting better, Paul Datino heray, John,
rough trip, Yeah, which has been a sadly a consistent
rough trip since twenty thirteen. Last time the Giants won
infil Pladelphia, the Giants failed to sweep the Eagles for
the first time since two thousand and seven. And look,
I think this is the first time I walked out

(01:07):
of a game and we could talk about the ways
this game could have been closer. If a couple of
calls or a couple of players go the Giants way
in the first half of this game, that's fine. But
when you're almost doubled up in terms of yardage game
to the game and you give up two hundred and seventy.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Six was it rushing yards? I believe were two and
seventy four two seventy six rushing yards. Yeah, two to
seventy six on thirty three carries.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
For eight point four yards per carry. There's really not
much else to say. That is to me, Paul, what
this was. The Eagles put on their big boy pants.
They ran out two or three tight ends or an
extra offensive lineman and two tight ends. They played big
boy football and the Giants could not stop them.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Bully ball, which was clearly on Philadelphia's mind for the
past two weeks after the Giants whacked them at Live Stadium.
They were determined, they were angry. We talked about this
on the WFAN radio pregame show, how they were going
to defend their nest and push the Giants fifty feet
to the ground and their doom. And that's exactly what

(02:10):
the Eagles did. This was a payback game mentally and
emotionally and physically for Philadelphia, and they got their payback.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
And I said this to Mark Melewsis on our Saturday show,
referring back to the game two weeks ago or at
that point it was Tay, it was ten days ago,
right right, And the point that I made it was
the first time I had seen the Giants play the
Eagles in a game, and the Giants were undoubtedly the
better team in the trenches on both sides of the ball,
offensive and defensive lines. We have not been on to

(02:41):
say that about a Giants an Eagles game probably since
two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, that type
of range of time, it was the opposite. The script
got absolutely flipped over the weekend yesterday, where the Giants
pass rush had their moments, but the Eagles defensive line
was certainly more dominant in the run. They were better

(03:01):
rushing the passer as well. And the offensive line for
the Eagles, you know, they ran the ball eight point
four yards per carry. The Giants offen the land was okay,
they weren't bad, but the Eagles offensive line was dominant,
and that to me, ultimately we can talk about some
of the other stuff. Was the difference in this game.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Very simply put, the Giants taught them a lesson in
football one oh one two weeks ago, and Philly returned
the favor. John. It's really very simple. I mean, and
you know that a quality team when they get you
on the back end of a rematch situation in their
home turf, were on their home turf, chances are the

(03:45):
line or the scale is going to lean in their
direction because there is a lot more motivation for them.
I'm not going to say that the Giants were not motivated. Absolutely,
they wanted to sweep. They came out strong. After the
Barkley touch down, they answered with a touchdown. Philly gets
another score, Giants come back, and even after camp Scataboo

(04:06):
dislocates his ankle, the Giants still get a field goal
to make it fourteen to ten yep. But then then
the one drive. Okay, the one drive, and this has
been a problem with the Giants for most of the
past decade. Late in the first half, they tend to
give up points. John, That's just something the Giants do.

(04:27):
And the Eagles go on a touchdown drive and the
latter stages of that second quarter, and now it's like,
uh oh, he's starting to do something.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
El's got the ball with two minutes and forty six
seconds to go in the half.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
They did not even have a third down on that drive.
They did not.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
They marched the ball down the field.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
I'll give you the place.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Barkley for ten, Barkley for six, Barkley for five, Damonte
Smith for eleven, Damonte Smith for twelve, Hurts for three,
and then a touchdown the guy for six.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Right now, at that point, I'm thinking, all right, this
afternoon is looking like trouble. You felt like the game
could get out of hand. I started to get that
bad feeling in my stomach. I think everyone did. But
it wasn't until I told you this on the postgame
NFA and last night. It wasn't until the Giants open
the third quarter and start with a sack and a

(05:23):
three and out and give the ball up and then
Philly scores again. They bridged halftime with a touchdown, a
field goal, and two touchdowns. They scored on four consecutive possessions.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Well, ball, Look it's worse than that. I mean, this
Giants defense has to play better. And look I understand
they were missing guys in the secondary in this game,
and no one that could cover DeVante Smith. Even when
Cordell thought was on him, he couldn't covered Devonte Smith either.
No one could cover DeVante Smith. And you expect that
going into a game when you're missing Javon Holland and
you're missing Paul's and Adebo even with aj Brin now,

(06:01):
I could understand that given the personnel issues. But again,
the Eagles played double tight ends or even two tight ends,
and an extra offensive lineman, Fred Johnson was their extra
offensive lineman in their jumble packages. The Giants went into
their base defense where they had their three defensive linemen
on the field. It was Nacho if Roy, Robertson Harris,
and Dexter Lawrence and DJ Davison was in that mix too.

(06:24):
They had their two inside linebackers and their two edge players.
They were playing five ban fronts against those big Eagle
offensive sets, and you look back with those plays, Paul,
a lot of the stuff was to the perimeter where
we talked about in the pregame show yesterday as well,
where the edge players either did not get out there
and set the edge and everyone had times in that

(06:45):
game where they were responsible for that, and the defensive
backs didn't do a great job getting off blocks and
tackling on the edge either. The linebackers didn't do a
great job getting outside. The bottom line is that the
Giants players were getting blocked and the Eagles were the
more physical team. They were moving the Giants off the
line of scrimmage too, and the Giants players just could
not get to their spots because the Eagles were getting

(07:08):
to the second level and blocking them. That Saquon Barkley
long run at the start of the game, he was
barely touched. It was barely touched.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
H how about on his touchdown catch where he wasn't
defended at all. I looked at that player around five times.
I still don't know what happened. I don't know who
blew the coverage.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
Was Musaw not supposed to block if it's okaa kay,
I don't see how he can get over there in time. No,
there's no way a safety gets over there in time.
Someone they did that was a man demand play and.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
It looks like the Giants had ten men on the
field because there's nobody there.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
And it doesn't even looking at a pre snap being
the non coaches that we are. I had no way
to know who's responsibility the zero chance. I just didn't know.
So that was a mister Simon, and again they just Paul,
if you go back to the last game now, and
I'm gonna give some stats that Giant fans probably aren't
gonna life, but this is what happened, and it is

(08:00):
what it is. Going back to that game against the
Denver Broncos where the Broncos in that game had five
straight scores to end that game, right, the Eagles today
had one punt or yesterday had one punt in eight drives.

(08:23):
So the last thirteen drives for the New York Giants
there has been one punt. There has been eleven scores.
That's a problem. And the other one was in miss
field goal. So you're you can't give up eleven scores
in your last thirteen drives. I don't care who's hurt.

(08:47):
I don't care who's not on the field. And by
the way, eight of those are touchdowns. Not to take
that back, none of those were touchdowns. That's a problem.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
No one's going to dispute that, especially the players in
the locker room who I talked to after the game, Bobbiokaake, Dexter, Lawrence.
They face the music. They know it's got to be better.
They know they were getting beat by one on one blocks.
Guys weren't shedding, Guys were not filling holes, Guys were
not following the assignments that they had to follow. It's

(09:22):
it's inexplicable how porous this defense has become despite the
couple of injuries that they had. I agree with you,
that is not an excuse.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
And by the way, I did not count. I'm not
counting the run out the clock drive by the Eagles
end of the game. I threw that out. I'm not counting.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
No, you can't count.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
You can't count that one. So it's just it has
to be better. And look, when you get gash like
this that the blame goes everywhere.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Oh it does.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
Everyone takes a hit on this one, folks.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
I think it was either Dexter or Bobby said to
flat out all three levels, line linebackers, secondary, all three levels.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Hey look at and Brian Dable and Shane and Wou'd
say two and that you know, the coach had to
put the players in better spots and situations as well.
You know, it's based on Whenever it's this lopsided, everyone
takes a hit in some way.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Nobody escapes. Nobody escapes John correct And you know, I
think the one thing about this that troubles me a
little bit more than other aspects of this is that
I see some players out there who I know have
more talent and ability than they have shown in some

(10:33):
of these quarters of football that we've seen. I mean,
I'll give you a great example. We watched Tyler Nuban
last year be virtually an All NFL rookie at say safety.
He did not make the All NFL Rookie team, but
I think he should have been. If they name a
second team and they don't they name All NFL Rookie
team and they don't name a second team, I think

(10:54):
he would have been second team All NFL Rookie. He
was that good. He was that good this season. I'm
sorry to say he either misreads assignments, he takes bad angles,
is a step too slow to get to where he's
supposed to be, missus tackles too, and yeah, I'm incredibly disappointed.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
I'm not gonna kill him on the long Saquon run.
You're one on one in the open field with Saquon Barkley.
Not many people are going to make that play. I
can't kill him on that. I don't like the fact
you let him get to the sideline though, well that
guy to force him back inside.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
That was the problem for me, is that he was
caught inside too much and by the time he reacted
to get outside it was too late.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
No, I agree with that, And and we know at
Minnesota what kind of player he was and the kind
of coverage skills and ball skills that he had. He's
been with the Giants, and even last year when he
was a good player, he wasn't getting interceptions, he wasn't
ballhawking the ball, which is what he was known for.

(11:57):
He was a legend at Minnesota with the golf at
getting his hands on the football. For some reason, we
didn't see that last year, but we saw everything else.
And I don't want to pick on Tyler Nuban. The
only reason I'm bringing him up is because this is
a guy, one of the examples who I thought really

(12:17):
really had a chance to accelerate his game and go
up to the next level, and instead it seems to
have gone backwards. And again, folks, I want to make
sure you understand this. I'm not picking on him. I'm
just using him as an example because I think he
set a high standard for himself, and I think based

(12:38):
on what you just said a few moments ago, you
were great. Yeah, he said a.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
High, very high hopes for him this year. Absolutely, and
the production's not matching the man's talent. And I think
we're feeling we're starting to feel the absence of Mike
and McFadden the last couple of weeks.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
I think so too.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
Where Mussau at a couple of mistackles in this game
on that first long Saquandron. I'm not a coach, but
Tiki yesterday he thought that was Musaw that should have
gotten outside and filled that hole and forced Saquon back
in before you got to the second level where where
Tyler Nubman was waiting for him. You know, Dexter Laurence
still isn't making as many impact plays in these games

(13:14):
as we've seen him make in years past, and it's
it's just not consistent up and down both all three
levels of the defense. So it has to get better
for the offense. Another chapter in what's a becoming a
very long book in that Giants fans can't have nice things.
Cam Scataboo tries to catch a ball over the middle

(13:36):
that's a little high. Zach baughd is all over him,
plays good defense, jumps, kind of lands on the back
of his legs a little bit, and he dislocates his ankle.
Had surgery yesterday. We have not gotten any prognosis exactly
what the surgery was for any of that.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
I think it's.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Safe to say the chances we see him again this
year are probably pretty slim. And Paul he as important
as Jackson Artists, is the future of this franchise. In
my opinion, Scataboo, I could argue it was actually maybe
a little bit more important to the offense this year
in terms of the personality and the character they've taken
on in terms of a power running team. Remember and

(14:17):
the Giants two wins with Jackson Darth. They ran the
ball forty times in those two games, so I think
once was thirty nine, the other one was forty. Not
a coincidence, No, it is not a coincidence. And his
ability to lean into that power running scheme that I
think this offensive line is best at. You know, the
duo get behind those blockers, let him push forward and
gain those He always falls forward. He makes guys mess,

(14:37):
he can catch the football, and he just brings an
energy as well on the intangible side. It's a bad loss.
And look, I love Tyrone Tracy. You guys know how
highly I thought of him coming into this year, and
I think he's gonna do fine. I think he's gonna
do a nice job. But he's a different type of
running back than Cam Scataboo too, so I think you're
gonna have to adjust how you're running the ball a

(14:57):
little bit to use him to the greatest attempt. You
want to use him and get the most out of him.
So just a rough, rough, rough injury, and the Giants
are now gonna have to replace their second big time
playmaker on offense after losing the league neighbors earlier in
the year, John, some of.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
The guys yesterday in the locker room were asked, how
resilient can you be? I mean, is there a time
when you run out of it?

Speaker 3 (15:23):
I mean you have to be.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
You have to because we're not machines, we're not robots.
Every one of us is a human being. And you
bleed and this team is bleeding right now. They're taking
a bunch of hits and it's unrealistic to expect that
they can just continue as much as they said it.
And I told you this on the post game yesterday too,

(15:46):
Guys all said, next man up, you got to play.
Injuries are part of the game. Those are the stock
answers that they're programmed to say because they're pro football players.
That's what the coaches and the players will always say.
But they're also human being and to take these gut
punches as they've taken them is going to sap some

(16:08):
of the life out of you. It just has to.
And I'm not making excuses for anybody, folks, but it's reality.
These were two very very important players to the dynamic
and the welfare emotionally, mentally, physically, game plan wise to
this team.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
I agree a couple of other things on the offense before
we get to your calls, and we'll get to as
many of them as we can today. Jackson Dark Paul
I thought again he made some of those quote unquote
loose plays that Brian David talks about, got out of
the pack pocket and made that with that throt of
one the Robinson rolling to his left, getting his hips flipped,
and they'll making that throw great throw. Did not get
a lot of help in the first half. Deo Johnson

(16:49):
dropped that wheel were out now in fairness, even if
he catches that reblanket shit might blow him up to
the point where he can't hold on to it anyway,
But he should have made the initial catch. He did not.
I gave him a drop it do It has to
be a drop one hundred percent. And then Darius Layton
couldn't come up with what was a tough one hand
to catch down the right sideline. Now people will complain
about that, Oh, get two hands on the ball. I agree, well,

(17:12):
the reason was even able to try the one hand
to catch because he was pushing off Quinny and Mitchell
in the face with this soft hand, a penalty that
was not called, by the way, which should have been,
to be quite honest with you, which was made up
for the fact how in the second half they tried
to find Darius Layn deep down the right sideline. When
you watch it from the side, you understand why they
threw the flag because the two guys hit and then

(17:34):
all of a sudden, Slayton kind of explodes off of
Williams two yards while the ball's in the air, so
it looks like a push off. But when you see
the TV copy replay, you see it's just kind of
a lot of hand fighting. Mitchell's grabbing him too. Maybe
you could throw two flags on that and offset him
if you want, but I don't think a flag should
necessarily be thrown there. But the other thing with dark

(17:55):
Paul cannot hold the football this long? Do you know
what is that time to throw us? In that game?

Speaker 2 (18:02):
I would not time I did not time it.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
No, I'll take a guess, three point three, three point
six four, even more.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
I ransom numbers. I did charge, by the way, first
of all, on the first Slaton play, the fifty to
fifty ball, I did not give him a dream.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
No, I don't think that's a drop.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
I agree with you on the offensive pass interference call.
What I was watching it live, believe it or not.
I did see the tug of the jersey. Yeah, and
that's what bothered me more than anything else.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
Great.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
I'm like, how in the world did he get away
with that? When the whole stadium saw it? And as
far as dart, I charged him with two of the giants.
Five sacks.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
I think it might be be be being generous there,
to be honest with Perhaps it might have been more
than that.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
But I gave him. I charged him with two.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
All five of his sacks happened with more than three
seconds on the drop ass. That's a long time for
offensive lineman to have the block.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
I understand that.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
A couple other notes I thought interesting. I did break
down Dart a little bit in terms of his passes, Paul.
He only attempted eight passes holding the ball for fewer
than two and a half seconds. He only threw eleven
passes holding the ball fewer than three seconds. On those plays,
he was eight of eleven for seventy three yards. Pretty
efficient right on passes where he held the ball or

(19:20):
plays part of me where he held the ball for
more than three seconds. Six of thirteen one hundred and
twenty yards twenty yards of reception, five sacks. Yeah, so
that's the good and the bad of the Jackson Dart
roaming in the pocket, making extra time bouncing around holding

(19:43):
the ball waiting for something to develop. You get those
chunk plays again. Six completions one hundred and twenty yards terrific,
But five sacks. So there's your good and your bad
right there. And I think at times, Paul, you saw
when that first look wasn't there. His eyes came down
on a few plays and he was kind of looking
and his Tiki was talking to Tiki about it yesterday.
His kind of feet don't get settled. He kind of

(20:05):
bounces around a little bit back there. So those are
some of the things I picked up. One other note,
I'm breaking down some of the passing stuff he did
not come. Dart did not complete one pass when under
pressure in the game zero five with five sacks, and
the Eagles blitzed only twice. He only brought five players
or more twice in this game after doing it more

(20:28):
than forty percent of the time in the game two
weeks ago. So that was a big time adjustment from
Vic Fangio.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Well, there's no doubt that the Eagles went to school
on that tape, no question. And again that's what happens
when you get embarrassed.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
By division wide well, and that's that's why I said
on the pregame, Paul, the most interesting thing to me
about this game was how Dart would do playing the
same corner in the same team for the second time,
for the first time in his career. Yeah, I mean,
there's there's no way Philly was gonna take that line down. Yeah,
there's no way.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Now, I think the one the one item that that
I kind of I kind of wanted to mention here, John, And.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
By the World War against Manda Man, he was two
of six for fifteen yards and four sacks. I see,
i'd make this chart too small. Sometimes I did have
the Ajomo.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Sack on a five man front. That was one five
man front that they ran on one of the sacks.
And let's see, Davis, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta
make this a little bit bigger. I can't read this side.
It looks like a snock report.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
John, You got the percentage thing up there right now?

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Where is it? Where is it here?

Speaker 4 (21:40):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Fifty size?

Speaker 3 (21:42):
That's why.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Oh that's why myself on my eyes. Okay, So what
do I have here? I got I got a five
man front for Davis's sack, and I charged Dard for
that one. I think that's the one that we're talking
about here. Let me see anyway, well, before we before
we go there, here's what I wanted to say. Yeah,
when I really meant this. No, No, it was Davis.

(22:04):
That's an old one. Here we go. Bonn was a
four man front. Carter was a four man front. Jomo
was a five man front. Hunt was a five man front.
Davis was a five man front. So they had three
five man fronts on the on the five sacks that
they got. Okay, the other two were four man fronts.
But here's the thing, as far as I'm concerned, the

(22:29):
one big problem with the game flow as it began
to get out of hand, and this is why that
late second quarter touchdown was so important, John, is that
we've talked about the Giants don't just want balance, they
really want to be able to lean on their run. Well,
once they get down by two scores going at the halftime,

(22:53):
now all of a sudden they got out of that balance.
They're out of that. Yeah, the game fo Yeah, but
it's not just one score, Gihann, it's two.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
It was the first time all year that Jackson Dart
played from behind for the majority of that game.

Speaker 5 (23:07):
Correct, And the game flow is very very important to
how the Giants are going to scheme it offensively, to
the play calls that they're going to throw in there.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
And because Jackson Dart is still a young rookie, still developing,
and they're trying to tailor stuff that's gonna work for him.
You're putting so many limitations on the kinds of things
that you want to do that game flow can really
send your train off the tracks, and I think it's
easy to forget that. No, I'm with you. Look, I

(23:41):
just went through all the sacks really quickly, Paul, I
have Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
Two of them were five man.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Rushes and the other the other three were four That's
what I had on that. Uh, let me go back.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
The last one was a five man rush and the
second was a five man rush. The other three were
four man rushes.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
So it's it doesn't I don't think it. The ball
was up again, but it was just a deal where
a Joemo, Wait minute, Jomo. No, I want to make
sure we got this right. I don't want to be
giving people wrong wrong stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
I have it in terms of order of the game.
I don't have it in terms of oh okay, in
terms of who got the sack. So the first one
on the bond play where he got him on the scramble, right,
that was a four man rush. The second one I'm
trying to see who got this year. That was with
three forty seven they go in the second quarter. That
was the Cooper Dejen blitz. Then he steps up in
the pocket and the ninety sacks and that was a
five man rush. Right, that's that's Davis. That was the

(24:31):
Davis sack. That was five man. The third sack of
the game, as I bring it up here, that was
a four man rush. It was double stunts. Dart holds it,
holding it, still holding it, still holding it. And then
eventually ninety eight gets that Cardiff side right, Yep, that's
Carter's that's a four man rush, yep.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
And then the fourth one, it is a they fake
a blitz, they pull back. It's a four man right, No, no,
but it's a five man front. It is a five
man that's what I'm talking, Okay, but it is only
the four man rushed though, Yes, and then fifty eight
and then number fifty comes in, uh and fifty comes
and gets them off.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Correct. The reason I talk about the fronts for pre
snap is because the pre snap read effects sure what
they're gonna do with their blocking absolutely, So when I
when I count fronts, I'm not talking about necessarily how
many guys wind up rushing. I'm counting how many guys
he sees on the pre snap read.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
Got it.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
There were three of those five pre snap read.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
That is correct.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
That is correct, I got I'm to say, Page, Look,
I did this at a quarter after two in the morning. Folks.
Don't worry about it now, you're one hundred percent of right.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
There there were three to five man frush fronts, three
four man rushes to five man rush. Yes, that's what
the that's what the five sacks were. And again a
lot of it was holding the ball and not getting out.
The Dins offensive line was not as good as it
has been the last few weeks, but I didn't think
it was a.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Disaster by any means. That's that they were fine. They
were okay. I would like to have seen them run
block batter I mean, I just been purely in terms
of pass protection, considering what they were up against behind
having a throw against a tough Eagles front as they
as they were stunting and doing what they were doing. Yeah,
I agree, it wasn't horrible pass protection, but the run

(26:10):
blocking was just not very good.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
I agree, And it was probably Andrew Thomas's worst game
since he came back to He gave him a couple
pressures off his side of that game.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
You know, I actually charged him with one on the
when he did not sustain his block. He was at
left tackle on that one sack. He didn't sustain his block,
And when Dart had to step up into the pocket,
I forget who the player was. He left Thomas because
Thomas didn't sustain it, and all he had to do
was take three steps down the line of scrimmage and

(26:38):
Dart was sacked.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah, and Thomas led another pressure which four start to
step up and get sacked. So again, Andrew's been awesome
and he'd have a bad game. But I thought this
was the worst game he's had since he's come which
says a lot yees because he's really good, correct, all right, guys?
Two one nine three nine four five one three two
a one nine three nine four five one three guys.

(26:59):
Mike shch Johnson podcast on giants dot Com, Giants app
podcast platforms. You have the audio only rapid reaction from
yesterday Madalin Burk and the Moni tumor did that one?
Go check that out. It's on the podcast if you
just subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. By the way,
for Apple podcasts, please leave that five star positive if
you ask, we would really appreciate it. All right, let's
go to the phones here once more two on one

(27:21):
nine three nine five one three and lead things off
with Kevin in Philadelphia.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Kevin, what's up, hey, guys?

Speaker 4 (27:28):
As always, you do a great objective type job in
terms of reviewing what's taken place and where these deficiencies lie.
I really am been trying to sort through and this
has gone on not just yesterday's game. Where you draw
the line between plus the defensive coordinators role in terms

(27:55):
of culpability versus the players from an execution standpoint, I
just give you an example, and you alluded to this
Vic Fangio defensive coordinator. He obviously made some wholesale adjustments
between the first time we played and the game yesterday,

(28:17):
significant adjustments that had a direct impact on Dart's performance
and the overall ability of the offense. I think to
gain tempo, rhythm, et cetera. I look at the other
side and I asked myself, well, if Shane Bowen is
preparing for Philadelphia the second time around, you would be

(28:40):
really wondering why again, we wouldn't be in a more
prepared state to deal with the Philadelphia running attack. I mean,
AJ Brown was out of the lineup, et cetera. And
yet you know, as you quoted the statistics two hundred
and seventy, I mean just abysmal. And it's a combination

(29:01):
of you know, not setting edge, not being in the
right place. But it's also just slip shot tackling, et cetera.
Now that kind of thing, I say, slip shot tackling
is non execution. You don't blame Shane Bowen for that
kind of thing. But trying to figure out, quite frankly,
well how do you make this better? Because all you

(29:22):
end up doing at the end of these games with
the players themselves is hearing a lot of philosophizing and
you know, the classic well we got to get better
and this and that, the obvious type things I'd like,
I'd like sort of your thoughts on that and offline.
But then the second and final thing is I sort

(29:44):
of looked at some of these insidious plays that occur
where and I'm not to pick on THEO Johnson or
get back to the slate and drops and stuff like that,
but I kind of compare what happened to the Theo
Johnson play down on the sideline and the pitotle nature
of losing the ball at that point versus the play

(30:07):
that was made by I want to say it was
Johan Dotson on Philadelphia against Corey Black for a touchdown
down in the end zone where the guy maintains, you know, somehow,
some way he ends up catching the ball, and I think,
you know, you get three four big plays like that
where it goes favorably for the opposition and our players

(30:31):
just don't seem to be able to make the catch
in that time and it can actually be, you know,
a major turning point in games. So anyway, I'll let
it go with that, and I.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Thank you appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
Look the way I think about sports in the game,
and you can just goes across sports. I talk about
the Knicks the same way I do here, and I
talk about the Yankees the same way I talk about them.
I'm always going to look more at the players than
I am the coaches. The players, the ones on the field,
they're the ones that are competing. I'm always gonna look
there first. And when you talk about not making tackles.

(31:06):
That's not a coaching thing. That's a player execution thing.
Guys getting blocked on the second level. I'm gonna be honest, Kevin.
I'm gonna be a little humble here. I'm not enough
of an expert on like defensive schematics to know whether
or not someone's lined up in exactly the right place
based on offensive formation. I don't know that, Paul. I

(31:27):
don't know if you want to comment on that either.
I don't feel like I know enough to be honest
to make those sorts of determinations. And do you want
to say I'm copying out, That's fine you can, but
I don't like trying to make assertions about something that
I don't see and I don't know, and I'm just
throwing something at the wall. But I'll just say, Kevin,
what I said at the top here, and Paul, I'm

(31:48):
sure you'll agree. When you have something, especially the run
defense that was as bad as it was this past week,
that's never just a player thing. It's never just a
coach thing. It's a not everybody thing. That's what that is.
So I think you have to take it on a
play by play basis. They give an overarching thing. While
this game was more players, this game was more coaching.

(32:10):
I think it depends on the play and it depends
what you're looking at. Like if a guy gets blocked,
is it the player's fall for getting blocked? Is it
because they're not set up right free snap so the
angles aren't there, so they get blocked. It's good questions.
I don't have the answer to it, but feel free
if you want to go out there and blame whoever
you want after this type of game on defense. I
totally understand why you.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Would do that. All right, So you asked a two
part question, I'll answer one of the other one first.
In terms of making plays above the ex's and the o's,
as Dan Reeves taught me many many years ago, I
have been saying now for a number of years, the
Giants don't make enough of those plays.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
And that's why losing the league Nihbors was so tough,
because he was like the one guy that did those things.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
And you know you mentioned Johnson before saying if he
caught the ball, he might have gotten rocked. Well, if
you're going to make a play above the xces and
you catch that ball and you hold.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
It, I agree it agree.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
If you are going to be Darius Slayton on that
one handed attempt, it's a tough, tough catch. It's a
fifty to fifty ball. Defensive back has his hand in there.
If you make that catch, it's a play above the
x's and the o's. It's a spectacular grab. If you
want to be an upper level player, you have to
make that play. John, I agree. The Giants don't make

(33:25):
enough of those plays. I've been saying this for years.
They don't make enough of those. They make a bunch
of routine plays, but when it comes time to get
the top shelf plays above the exes and the o's,
the Giants don't have enough of guys who do that,
even semi consistently. That's been a problem here for a

(33:48):
long time. So let me make that very clear with you.
I understand exactly what you saw, and I will also
throw in the catch that dots and made. You might
have you might have had a little laundry on that
which didn't show up on the field. I still believe
that they could have been an offensive passage. Oh no way,

(34:08):
That's how I felt. But that's not relevant.

Speaker 3 (34:11):
I'm not buying that one.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
That's not. Well, that's not relevant because that's iffy, right,
that's iffy. The point is, despite whatever anybody might think
about the contact, he made the.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Catch, and Corey Black, who's got an inch on Dotson,
can't let him jump over him from behind to make
that catch. Now he's an undrafted rookie, it's his first
action of it. If I'm not gonna I'm not killing
Corey Black. No, he's in a very tough spot.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Very tough spot, especially since you just got back here
after they got it from the Jets. All right, So
that's the one question. The other item, Remember what we
said before about Philadelphia looking for the payback. Any good
team that is involved in a rematch scenario after they
get embarrassed in the first game, you can bet you

(34:53):
they are gonna uncover every single crumb of evidence as
they turn over every stone on their entire property trying
to figure out how did they embarrass us? And we're
going to come back and get them when they're in
our house. That happens in sports all the time. So
the extra motivation factor, the extra we're gonna dig one

(35:16):
hundred and seventy five percent to find every little thing
that the Giants did to us. Gives them perhaps a
little bit more of a uh wherewithal to find different
things to change up things than the Giants, who had
such a great game and ran all over Philadelphia. They're

(35:37):
more apt to keep more things the same because it worked, Bengal. Correct.
That's the way sports works, That's the way coaching one
oh one works. You don't make wholesale changes when you
kick the other teams, but you don't do it well.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
Yeah, no, one hundred percent. And I think you did.
See and I broke it down with with the Eagles too,
Jay when hurts against Manda man defense in this game
Paul nine of ten, one hundred and twenty six yards
and four touchdowns. That has to do a personnel though,
That to me is not a sham Bowen issue. That's
a we're just run out of guys in the secondary issue,
which they did. There's no question as part of it

(36:13):
they ran out of gay. And let's also show some
respect to Vic Fangio. Yeah, he, by the way, has
a great reputation. He is one of the upper echelon
defensive coordinators of the last twenty years. So let's let's
also give him some respect. Not only did they have
the organization's extra motivation to change things. But they also

(36:34):
had a guy who is ranked very high.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
In this league for being one of those fellows who
can do it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
No, absolutely right. I'm going to go to line too,
Johnny Mac. Let's go to Eli beause he's on the
way in Southeast Asia. I want to make sure he's
not paying too much on the phone calls here, Eli?

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Where are you at?

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Buddy?

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Wow?

Speaker 6 (36:51):
Right now? I'm in Thailand.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Holy that smokes? Are you? Are you in bank alcol
Are you like by the beaches? Eli? Where are you
outside of the Sorry?

Speaker 3 (37:00):
Nice? What do you got for us today?

Speaker 4 (37:01):
Man?

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Thanks for calling in. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (37:04):
I've been listening for at least ten years, but daily,
but this was the first time I ever called. I
just wanted to say something first about the Denver game.
Just one short thing and the last the drive that
are through the interception like wrong when it started, I
don't understand. Just just a play that came up right,

(37:26):
like live when it was doing.

Speaker 8 (37:28):
Just have you.

Speaker 7 (37:30):
Play action roll out.

Speaker 6 (37:32):
You have a running quarterback, he doesn't have to throw
the ball. He could get sacked. He would get a
first down if not a touchdown. In the game, specifically
about that game, like live when it happened. It just
drove me crazy.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
I got to you, what's your what's your comment on
this week's game?

Speaker 6 (37:49):
Okay, so it's regarding the Sush push.

Speaker 7 (37:53):
It's I think it's a little funny, but it's it
makes me feel like the NFL. Well, I know it's
probably not true, but they're asking the referees not.

Speaker 6 (38:03):
To call things for not specifically for the Eagles, but
to make that play look bad.

Speaker 7 (38:07):
That way in the off season they could get rid
of it.

Speaker 6 (38:10):
I know that is funny, but like you know, the guards.

Speaker 7 (38:13):
Junking early, the you know, the display this week. Maybe
it's it's probably not true, but it makes that's.

Speaker 6 (38:20):
What it makes me feel like like they want to
get rid of it, so let's make it look as
bad as possible.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
Last thing, yea, yeah, go ahead, finish finish up.

Speaker 7 (38:28):
Yeah, just one last week. I just wanted to say
my frustration right now with the Giants is I'm really
really scared that they're going to for some reason.

Speaker 6 (38:39):
Blow things up.

Speaker 7 (38:42):
He liked the head coach the GM Maybe they're.

Speaker 6 (38:48):
Not the best, they're competent. We didn't have that for
a while.

Speaker 7 (38:52):
And they're building some You can see that something is
getting built even O.

Speaker 6 (38:55):
We won twenty games this decade, maybe.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Right, Thank you, Eli, and I would like him.

Speaker 6 (39:02):
To keep so, thank you.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Very much for the time and anyway, thanks a lot
for being such a loyal listener. By the way, we've
cided all the way out there in Southeast Asia.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
That's awesome. I don't think we've had a tailand Call yet.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
We've had Korea, We've had Japan, yeah, I think we
had a Philippines once too.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
We've had Australia. Yeah. I don't think we've had a
Thailand though. So Nope, it's good.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
You said listen it for ten years.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
That's awesome, very cool.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
Was it like one o'clock in the isn't that like
a twelve hour time difference? Johnny Mack, look that up.
See what the time difference is between here and Bangkok.
It's gonna be like ten or twelve or like something
like that.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
We forgot to ask him too, how does he watch
the games? I guess Sunday ticket, international version, I guess.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (39:40):
There are other ways to watch it. There are let's
just leave it at that. But look, look it's funny.
We talked about some of the other calls and non calls,
and the one we didn't talk about, and that's my fault,
was the egregious one. And we've had a debate back
and forth on the show for the better part of
a year and a half now about the tush push,
and my arugument was always the Eagles are better at

(40:01):
it than everyone else. I don't want to punish the
Eagles for being better at something than everyone else in
the National Football League. Your point was always about the
health and safety, and I was like, I'm not sure
I've seen enough injuries to buy that one.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Well, I think we've found.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
A way to meet in the middle here a little bit, Paul,
because I think what we've seen this year, and I
think this week was a good example of that. This
play has become too difficult to officiate, whether it's calling
false starts. And you did see the right guard of
the Eagles kind of rock a little bit before that
Jay one hurts push push, and then we've seen consistently

(40:39):
they let that play play out so the Eagles can
get a second surge, sometimes a third surge to get
the yards that they need to convert a first down, which,
by the way, if that's how you want to call
the play, fine, But if that's how you're gonna let
them do it, you can't call forward progress. Jay one
hurts is literally still so moving forward with the football,

(41:03):
reaching it out and Keevon Thibodau makes a great play,
rips it away. You cannot call forward progress, which makes
the play non reviewable correct, and you take a takeaway
from the Giants. Now does that change the result of
this game? Eagles ran for two hundred and seventy four yards.
Probably not. Does it make it a lot more competitive?

(41:24):
And then who knows what's gonna happen. Sure you guys,
you know me. I hate talking about the officials. I
think it's one of the most boring baanal just like
fans complaining things. I can't take it.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
I hate it.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
I hate it. But man, I was watching the game
with Tik yesterday. There's very few times I get mad
and emotional watching a game. I definitely patted my fist
on the table in that one and was like, you cannot,
under any circumstances with the way that play is officiated,
make that call that way.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
I'm not gonna get on my soapbox here, because I've
been doing it for three years and I think I've
had enough of doing it. Simply put, this one was
obvious where the ball was in perfect view for everybody
to see. You.

Speaker 3 (42:15):
I saw it live on TV.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
I didn't have to see a replay, correct, I saw
it live. There are many times during the touch push
where you can't even see the ball.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
And that's the other problem with officiating it. How do
you spot the damn thing?

Speaker 2 (42:27):
Bingo? And to me, you're basically telling the officials are
many of these toush push plays you have to guess
at the spot.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
Now, I don't think that was the case on this play,
not on this one, but not on this one. You
might be getting to the point here where the play
if it's impossible to be officiated properly, then how can
you allow it? Then you can't have it in the
game correct.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
Because basically, as a league, you're putting the officials in
an impossible situation that's correct, and you're making it so
so so, so so sad, sketchy for them to try
to do their job where they have to rely on
almost guessing, and quite frankly, John, the other part of
this particular one, which is showing right now on our

(43:10):
screen here in the room in the studio. The other
thing that really really got my blood boiling on this
one is that the whistle comes well after, well after
the stated forward progress had stopped. And we're supposed to
as players and coaches, tell everybody everything's live to the whistle.

(43:33):
So how is it that the whistle doesn't come until
after the balls already out of Hurtz's hands, and then
they say, oh, forward progress was stopped before the fubble.
I don't have somebody's got it because you know what
that math two plus two does not equal four. It
just does not equate.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
I get it, I get it. You don't have to
convince me on that one. Let's go to Travis and
Vermont and then we'll go to Ralph after that, Travis,
what's going on then?

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Right?

Speaker 9 (44:03):
First time caller? Uh, you guys actually just hid all
the points I want to discuss with the touch push
and I didn't understand how the officiating was done. Uh,
because if you watch the live TV, both Kevin Burkhart
and Tom Brady I mentioned that you're only allowed to
extend the ball if you're trying to break the plane
of the end zone. I understand how he was allowed

(44:25):
to do that. And like Paulie said, the wistle come
fifteen seconds after the forward progress.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
Well, well we'll travis to two things. It wasn't that
long after about fifteen you are allowed to reach the
ball out, but the ball is still live when you're
reaching the point. That's what he's referring to, because at
the goal line it's dead as soon as you watch it.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
Yes, yes, go ahead, Yeah.

Speaker 9 (44:52):
I mean, I just I don't understand it. It doesn't
make any sense. And I'd also like to mention a
got that we'll play it. It does look like Zach
Bond did a hit tackle which was fanned last year,
and I'm curious to wonder why there was no going
on that either.

Speaker 3 (45:08):
Well, because he's jumping to the fleck the pass and
he's in mid air and then he lands on him.
It's not like he's chasing him from behind, then grabs
him and jumps on him and lands on his legs.
There's also remember there's the three parts of the hip
drop tackle. One is the turn. There's no turn there either.
So while it looks like one, I'm not sure by
the technical definition, it is one. We'll have the wait

(45:31):
to see if Bond gets fine for that during the week.
But I'm not surprised that wasn't called by because frankly,
it wasn't even a tackle, right, it was an incleplee pass,
so right.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Iuderstand your point. You thought it looked similar me too.
I think that's very fair for you to say.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
I'm with John, though I don't technically believe that it
met all of the qualifications. The shame of it is
penalty or fine, it doesn't matter. Unfortunately, Skattabho got badly
injured on the play, and so with the flag, really
it made you feel that much better.

Speaker 8 (46:04):
Honestly.

Speaker 9 (46:04):
Necessarily, it's just with how back and forth officiating has
been the last few years, I figured they would try
to actually be consistent with some of their calls, and
it just doesn't seem.

Speaker 8 (46:17):
Like they have.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Then I can only say this, my friend, I thank
you for the call. I've never been on the field
with a striped shirt, you know, and actually officiated a
game at any level. I've never done it. I know
it's a very difficult thing to do, and that's why
I try not to Like John says not to get

(46:37):
on the officials. I try my best not to, but
where I tend to be a little more vocal and
I do break out my soapbox, as John will tell you,
I'm not afraid to do. I get more into the
philosophical issues with some of the penalties and how the
parameters are that they're called, and why are it plays

(46:58):
like the tush push eminated. I get more into that
argument than physically taking an official to task over what
he did or did not see on the field of battle, which,
by the way, I don't mind saying in this game today, John,
with these guys moving at the speed they're moving, with
the size that they've got and the strength that they've got,

(47:22):
it's risky business to be an official, it really is.
And I and I don't in any way want to
disrespect what they're trying to do. I just think that
sometimes the rule book does not make their jobs as
clean as it could be.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
Again, guys moving really fast, and again a cursor research
here online because I have not watched the game yet
this year, or someone's been flagged for hip dop tackle,
how many hip drop tackle.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Penalty you think have been called in the n this season? Yeah,
I have not. I don't.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
I haven't seen one yet.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
There might have been one. They've been two yeah, last
year one. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
So it's a play that I think the NFL all
but admitted this when they made it illegal. They basically said,
we're gonna legislate this more via fine after the fact
than we are on the field during the game. It's
just a hard thing to call in full speed to
see what's the hip drop and what's not.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
You know, I will say this, over the years, we've
talked a lot about how they've protected the quarterbacks right,
and we've talked a lot about how there have been
blocks in the back or shots to the knee, blindside hits, targeting.
All those kinds of things have always come under scrutiny

(48:43):
under the scope of player safety. Right Is that fair
to say? M okay? So my only take was that
if player safety is paramount, then you want to make
sure that unilaterally you go through all the different rules
that you can of the book and see if you
can clean up as many of those as possible to

(49:04):
be consistent with players safety being the priority with the rule.
So the hip drop tackle to me, meets that criteria.
I have no problem with them taking that play out,
whether or not they wanted to do it with the
flag or whether or not they wanted to do it
with a fine, That made perfect sense to me because

(49:25):
that tackle is absolutely dangerous. We say the evidence, okay,
in terms of what happened with Bonne again, I don't
think it met the criteria. Do I understand that it
looks similar? I do, But you know, for you to
bring that one up right now, I'm not gonna bellyate

(49:46):
over Bonn's play. Let's go to Ralph in Florida. He's
on next down, Big Blue kick off five.

Speaker 8 (49:50):
Hi, Ralph, Hey, guys, long time. Non'll talk to two things.
I mean, I was gonna talk about one, but really
this is the big one with Dexter Lawrence. Everybody's saying
that Dexter Lawrence ain't showing up. Guys. He's staying with
one hand. I don't care what nobody says. His left
elbow is not healthy. You cannot, you can't. You don't
see the push. You don't see it. You just don't.

(50:12):
He's not strong enough. He can't do it. One on
when he sat down on the bench, when he came
out that game, you literally seen him leaning on his
right side like that left elbow is killing him and
he's trying to gut it out. And I commend him
for that, like I do. I expect Dexon Laws to
be a better play, of course, but if he's handicapped,
he's handicapped. That left arm is definitely not healthy. You

(50:36):
can tell.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
Ralph, Ralph.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
He's not making excuses, the coach is not making excuses.
But when he got injured, when the left elbow was
was dislocated last year, I remember talking to a medical person,
a sports orthopedist, not within the organization, I want to
make this very clear, not within the organization, and he

(50:59):
said to me it could take him at least a
year before he's himself again. He may he may be
able to get back out there in nine months, but
it's going to take him at least a year to
get that elbow fully back to one hundred percent. So
to your comment, I understand there might be some validity

(51:20):
to it. I'm not calling you crazy, but I also
want to echo that no one in this building, including Dexter,
has used that as an excuse.

Speaker 8 (51:28):
Oh of course, and he won't because he's because he's
a warrior. But and then the second thing is as
far as like what they're officiating yet, I hate blaming
officials for games yet, but in certain spots they do
change the outlook of the game, Like they're fumble that
changes the outlet, that takes a score off of Philly.
We get the ball back, We just going to touchdown.
We had a little momentum going to offense. Then the

(51:49):
second penalty that I think nobody's talking about was huge
was on Tracy's run that he ran for like eight
yards and they called the illegal block on Londelle Robinson
in the back when the guys when he was falling
down on his own and he still made him tackle
Like that turned the whole play around the next place.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
RALPHO was also a play layer in the game where
Jackson Dart. Everyone pretty much thought he fumbled the ball
and they called it an incomplete passers.

Speaker 8 (52:14):
Yeah, that's another John, bring that up. I'm glad you
brought that up. But did you see the player launch
himself and hit Jackson don in the helmet, helmet and helmet.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
Ralph to be frank with you, Yeah, to be frank
with you, Ralph, I don't want to go there and
catalog every questionable call because both teams were victimized. In
my opinion, both teams were victimized by a number of
let's just say, doubtful situations involving penalty flags either cold

(52:45):
or not cold. I think both teams were victimized in
my humble opinion watching it from the box, uh, even
watching the film. But having said that, okay, having said that,
the Philadelphia Eagles did beat the Giants yesterday today on
the field with their players, So please, I don't. I

(53:05):
don't want to go through the item wized list of
doubtful or questionable penalties. That's just not worth it.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
No, I agree. I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Hi Wilson, You're up next, buddy. Oh geez, we really
got to do this. Wilson. I'm telling you now, be nice,
so you're gonna be gone in ten seconds.

Speaker 10 (53:24):
Well, bully, listen with all due respect, you know I
love you. Right if you want to just hear what
you want to hear, why do you have a show?

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Just stop stop, Wilson, wasn't just wi Wilson.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Well, guys, I don't want you guys to argue Wilson.
Just make your point about the game. Okay, we don't
need to go back and forth. Just make your point
about the game.

Speaker 10 (53:47):
I just want to say more important things in life.
You know, hopefully this kid is good. It was horrendous
what happened to him. It was horrendous, and I wish
him the best. I haven't called in a while, so
I know you. You said something that that. You know
you have something going on before.

Speaker 11 (54:05):
I hope everything's okay with you.

Speaker 9 (54:07):
You know, I stuff, But I love you.

Speaker 10 (54:09):
You know everything. It's in good fun of course, we
know that.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Don't worry about it, man, Okay, all.

Speaker 10 (54:14):
Right, all right, so Janny, listen, I don't want to
talk about the wreck anymore because every everything is there
for people to see.

Speaker 6 (54:22):
It is what it is.

Speaker 10 (54:23):
All I'm gonna say is this man, it's like a
black cloud on top of this team. They have killed
my fandom, and a lot of fans feel the same way.
Maybe it's nobody's faul, Johnny. Maybe I'm not going to
blame anybody anymore, because it's pointless, I think, Johnny, first
of all, for people to say that you can't get
rid of somebody because the rookie quarterback likes them, it's

(54:46):
actually almost insulting. I mean, this kid is going to
be a good quarterback, no matter who who coaches them.
But but I think it's it's just kind Johny to me,
and I talk to a lot of people. Everybody needs
a fresh start, man, including the Heck, you look at
him on the podium. He looks like he's done, he
looks like he's defeated.

Speaker 6 (55:05):
He I feel bad for the guy.

Speaker 10 (55:06):
Actually, sometimes, Jenny, like you told you told me a
long time ago, Daniel seven and one looks at one
of the best quarterbacks in the NFL, and you said,
you know what, sometimes people need a fresh start. I
think all of us, all of us need a fresh start.
I don't know what's gonna happen. I mean, mister Marra
has a lot more important things to worry about that
what crazy Wilson from Rospberry things. But Jenny, when I

(55:30):
watch the game and I don't care whether the wind
or lose, I don't get upset when they gave up
at a second and thirty one, the guy runs for
a first down and I don't. It doesn't bother me anymore,
I think, Jenny, I don't come in on it. I
don't want you guys to come and this is for
all Giants fans that are listening right now. We just
need a fresh start man. We can't go to do anymore.

(55:51):
And I'm gonna leave it at that, Johnny. But again,
hopefully this kid has a speed of recovery. And I'm
glad that you're doing good, Paully, and don't get upset,
paul I love you, but you know I mean if
you don't let me say what I say, Pully. You
know I never I never crossed the mind. I never say,
you know, the crazy stuff like you know, say bay

(56:11):
words and nothing like that. I keep it real with
you because we having a conversation, Poulia. Sometimes you don't
like what I say, but if I mean it is
what I feel what I see on the TV.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Polly, I don't mind Wilson when you offer your opinions.
I only ask two things that that you don't go
like Haywire off the rails when you get emotional about it.
And then the second thing I ask you is that
you base it all on fact. Those are the only
things I ask you for. That's all I ask you for,
and sometimes you don't do that.

Speaker 10 (56:45):
Okay, Well I got said, Paulie. I'm sorry if I
do know everything isn't good fun.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
We'll talk to you again next time. It's okay, all right,
but we're good today.

Speaker 10 (56:54):
This is my my, my think, my what I think,
only what I think. I don't want you to come.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Now, Thank you very much, be well, good stuff then no, look,
we'll say that what you said today is absolutely fair.
If that's your opinion, team has not won a lot
of games in the last three years.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
I get it. I get it, I get it.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
I get where you're coming from. I understand your opinion.
All right, let's wrap things up. Who's our final call
the show here, Johnny Mack.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
We got Rich in Florida. Rich, what's going on?

Speaker 11 (57:20):
Hey, great job guys, you and Godfather And you know,
I echo Wilson's frustration. I go back probably far than
he does in nineteen sixty one. So you guys did
a group excellent, excellent, honest analysis. I couldn't agree with
Paul more than ever. You know, we have our conference call,
actually had our reunion this weekend here, but not players

(57:44):
not playing above the ex's and o's. I scream at
the TV for ten years saying the same darn things.
They just don't do it now. I think in a
positive sense, I think we have at least three people
they can do that right now. Unfortunately two of them
are injured Scatibo, Jackson, Dard and Neighbors. But you remember
in the old days, when the defense had a three

(58:05):
point lead and that the other team had a three
minutes ago, somebody was making a play.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Why do you think called banks and stomach turns right now.

Speaker 11 (58:14):
And it comes down to personnel, though, Paul, Yeah, this
personnel decisions. Let's let's be honest.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Well, I mean, look, Rich, I'll give you a two
fold dancer here. Number one, it does have to come
with the roster. You have to put together a more
talented roster than the Giants have had in recent years.
We happen to believe from being here every day that
this was a more talented roster, and that I think

(58:41):
it's fair to say it is not performed up to
its lofty standards or up to its expectations. I think
it's fair to say it's been an underachieving roster to
this point, I.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
Would say, specifically on the defensive side of it.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Yes, absolutely, I totally agree with that. Then, okay, so
the second part to to what you're talking about the
responsibility of making those plays has to come within the
player himself. Absolutely, he's got to say, you know what,
that's my ball and I'm getting it and nobody else is,
or I'm making that tackle, I'm bringing you down, or

(59:16):
this guy's not tackling me. Yes, and Scott and Scataboo
is one of those guys who does that.

Speaker 11 (59:22):
Exactly exactly, and so you know, so the answer is
you we need more of those guys. It's pretty simple.
And that's not analytics. That's a lot of that comes
from the heart.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 11 (59:34):
So we need more, We need more scatibus. I pray
that he is okay. That's you know, I had two
nurses who with me and a doctor and my conference call.
That is a very serious injury because they have to
reattach the ligaments apparently, And so pray that he gets
a okay because we need that kid. Jackson Dark the
best thing that's come out of this season. We got
a quarterback and it's he plays above the exes and

(59:56):
o's and neighbors will be back, but we need more
of them, especially like John said, I totally agree on defense.
So we're never giving up. Just like he's Jackson. Never
give him up. But the fans are just the old
guys like me. You're just frustrated to the ins degree.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
And look, Rich, you should be. I appreciate the call,
and then.

Speaker 11 (01:00:17):
All right, keep up the good work, guys.

Speaker 8 (01:00:19):
Love you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Thanks Rich.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
Hope you had a good reunion this week, and hope
you had a good time the time you weren't watching
that game for three hours yesterday at least.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Oh no, I understand.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Let me just say this about Dark, And I kind
of made this. I actually used a Paul Datino food
metaphor on the post.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
You really yes.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
As I'm going through it, I'm like, oh man, I
sound just like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Can I get a right sweet for that? Please?

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
And I tried to stop up so the way I
talked about Dark because we had a couple of calls
ate in the late in the post game show about
him yesterday. He's so good at these loose plays and
scrambling and running. But you cannot make that the basis
of how you succeed a quarterback in the NFL. That's

(01:01:03):
the whip cream, that's the topping. Pick your topping. You
want EMM just want some sprinkles that you want some
chocolate sauce, whatever you're thinking about, that's the stuff you
put on the ice cream. All right, very good, John,
But what makes Patrick Mahomes great is what he does
when he doesn't have to use those things. His ability

(01:01:24):
to quickly see things, always, get the ball on the
right spot, see the defense, get the ball out quick
those be super accurate with the ball. And look, Darth
does some of those things. Well, he's very accurate in
my opinion, but in terms of seeing it, keeping his
eyes up, getting through all his progressions, getting the ball
out on time and quickly, that's what great quarterbacks do.

(01:01:50):
And look, we've seen quarterbacks succeed for short periods of
time not doing those things. How did Josh Allen survive
his first two years in the pros by doing this
sort of stuff?

Speaker 8 (01:02:00):
Ha?

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
Did Lamar Jackson survive his first couple of years in
the pros before he learned how to play quarterback the
real way by doing this sort of stuff? And that's
what we talk around draft time, Paul about it's tough
now to draft a pure pocket passer because it takes
a while for a pure pocket passer to become a
good NFL quarterback. To play quarterback in the NFL, and

(01:02:20):
the mental part of it is so much harder than
what you're being asked to do in college. Look how
long it took for Sam Donald to develop. Look how
long it took for Baker Mayfield to develop. Look how
long it took for Gino Smith to develop. Throw Daniel
Jones into that pot right now, go down the list.
The Rams pay the Lions to take Jared Goff. They

(01:02:48):
paid them to take Jared Goff in that Stafford trade.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Okay, so it worked out for both teams, though, I
think both teams are doing just fine totally.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
I'm sure the line is like one of those picks back,
but yeah absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
I mean I'm sure the Rams.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
Are like one of those picksback, but yes, absolutely. But
what the point I'm making is that the stuff that
Dart's not good at yet and that he needs to
improve at if he wants to be your quarterback for
a long time. Ninety eight percent of rookie quarterbacks aren't
good at that stuff either, right, That's the stuff that
not everyone's Joe Burrow, all right, Not everyone is c. J.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Stroud in his first year, right now, that's regrets.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Now, that is backslid. Another reason. Who didn't think CJ.
Stroud was a next great quarterback after his rookie year.
Everyone did. And that's including the playoffs. What nineteen games
worth of football from him. So that's why when Away says, oh,
we know we have our quarterback. Guys, it's been six games.
Let's relax. Teams haven't adjusted to him yet. Okay, let's

(01:03:50):
see how this goes. There are critical things that you
have to be good at as a quarterback in the
National FOOTBA League that he still needs to get better at.
But his natural instincts, his natural playmaking ability, his athleticism,
his attitude, his intangibles, his work ethic, his personality. All

(01:04:15):
those things check boxes that are important to have long
term success and even high level success in the National
Football League. But the puzzles not completely yet. Their piece
is still missing that have to be put together. The
ice cream still has to be churned all right. Now,
has he is the milk, he's got the cream, he's
got a free but he hasn't put.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
It all together yet.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
And we don't know what that ice cream flavor is
going to be either. Once it all gets put together.
Is he gonna look more like everyone makes the Josh
Allen comparison, and it's because Dable. With Allen, it's more
Mahomesish to me than allan Ish. The way he moves
in the pocket, that little touch pass the field, Johnson,
that little lobby you're telling me you didn't have a
little like mahomes flash back with that. Now I'm telling
you he's nowhere near the player Patrick Maholmes and talking

(01:05:00):
about stylisticly understood, he's more stylistically like a Mahomes than
he is now. But like I said, we don't know
what this finished product is going to be. Like Paul,
maybe he's gonna be a Jordan Love type of quarterback
where it's a lot of big plays, but maybe it's
a little lone even in between. And we're not what's
last Sam So Jackson Dart checked the ball down to
an open player. He doesn't check the ball down.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
He prefers not to do it. All Patrick Malmes does
is check the ball down. That's only does is checked
the ball. Actually, some people are criticizing him for doing
it correct.

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
So that's what I'm saying. No two players are exactly
the same. Maybe we know some of the exciting and fun,
playmaking stuff that Dark can do. We know some of
the tools out of there for Dark that are all
really intriguing, and he has every piece that you want
for him to become a good quarterback down the road,
but we don't know. You know what you do on

(01:05:51):
a first and ten on a drop back, and you
can clean a four yard pass that can sometimes be
super important for a quarterback, and we haven't seen i
think that play to play consistency in terms of that
yet with Dark. So I'm very excited to see that
come together throughout the year, see that come together over
the next couple of years. It might not even be
there next year, folks. This stuff takes time for quarterbacks
in the National Football League, So I'm curious to see

(01:06:13):
how he develops. You love the tools, you love the
flashes that he's shown, the playmaking ability. But he has
all the toppings ready. They're ready to go. The ice
cream just hasn't been made yet.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
And the idea is that as much experience as he
gets this year, however many games, hopefully he'll play all
the way through to the rest of the season, and
he's healthy enough to do so. The idea is that
each one of these games, adds some more sprinkles to
the top of that ice cream. That's what this is about.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
I mean, yeah, I would say, if you want to
use the analogy, I would say, every time he plays
a game, the mixture of the cream, the sugar and
the milk, it gets a little colder and the ingredients
are slowly turning into ice cream. Right now, he's still
in He's not even a milkshake status yet. It's not
even like soft carval icestream yet. We're looking at it still.

(01:07:04):
The ingredients are all separate, but he certainly has gathered
all the topics.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Those he has an abundance.

Speaker 3 (01:07:09):
Yeah, well he stills to make the ice cream.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
I know we're Chad long, but Dan Salomon has been
on the Brian Dable presser. Oh yeah, that just started
like what five minutes ago. Actually, it started about fifteen
twenty minutes ago. I believe they're over now already, he said. Quote.
All went well with cam Scattaboo surgery. According to the
quote here from coach Brian Dable, he's recovering. Obviously he'll

(01:07:33):
be missed on the road to recovery. Da Will also
related his story to the media that he had been
chatting with Scataboo even got a text from Scat at
four eight this morning and his response was, quote, that's Scat.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
Well, in fairness, after you have a surgery like that,
it's probably pretty tough to sleep. I would imagine, Yeah,
I don't sleep anyway, so I can definitely understand that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
So those are just a couple of quick words. Since
we did go a little long, and I actually thought
you did that on purpose because you wanted to get
some of the information from Coach.

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
I did not. I just want to give my food analogy.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
Well I'm glad you did, because she made me happy.

Speaker 3 (01:08:13):
It wasn't Italian food, though.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
It's all right.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
You like ice cream, sure, and I like sprinkles. We
don't have an ice official ice cream at the Giants,
do we. I didn't get any trouble for for listening. No,
we don't believe we did. No, we didn't think.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
I'm okay. Anybody out there, if you'd like to be
the official ice cream to the Giants please by all means,
Big Blue Kickoff Live could always use another sponsor and
we'll be back tomorrow. Is Lance and somebody.

Speaker 3 (01:08:38):
I don't have to look that up. Lances on with
Somebody tomorrow. Okay, they'll take your calls here on Big
Blue Kickoff Live. Well, another full hour calls, the Flans
advertise to take them.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Oh my, let's see how long is open?

Speaker 4 (01:08:50):
Is?

Speaker 3 (01:08:50):
Tomorrowefully goes less than forty?

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
Oh oh, Lance?

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
You know I love you so thanks for being with us.
It's all brought to you by Catallac, the official luxury
vehicle the giants of the hack at Sack Pretty Help
Podcast Udio keep getting better. I am jon Cho. He
has pulled to Tino. We'll see tomorrow twelve thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
Everybody,