Big Blue Kickoff Live 10/28 | Week 8 Takeaways

Lance Medow and Matt Citak give their takeaways from the Giants vs Eagles game, talk about the 49ers defense, and take calls from fans.

0:00 - Eagles takeaways

27:00 - Cam Skattebo

32:15 - Calls

45:00 - Dexter Lawrence

53:00 - More calls

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Episode Transcript

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(00:45):
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Emmy do Ow. Today's episode as always presented by Cadillac,
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we are broadcasting for the Giants Podcast Studio. It is
presented by Hacketsack Meridan Health Keep getting better, So we'll
give you some takeaways from Sunday's loss in Philadelphia's The
Giants of the Eagles split their season series with Philly

(01:06):
taking that thirty eight to twenty. As well as going
over some news and notes, at least that came out
of Brian Dables press conference. He did briefly speak with
the media, nothing necessarily stunning coming from that, but he
did reflect on camp Scattaboo's injury, which obviously is one
of the biggest pieces of news as he is now
going to be out for the season after undergoing surgery
on his dislocated ankle. But Matt, I want to start

(01:29):
with the game in terms of what transpired, and I
think if there is one number of all that jumps
off the page for not very good reason. And this
has been a bit of an achilles heel for the Giants.
Defense has been the inability to stop the run. And
you look at what Philadelphia put up two hundred and
seventy six rushing yards that a pair of one hundred
yard rushers, I mean Tank Bigsby came in for Saquon

(01:51):
Barkley and did not miss a beat. And I would
say if you want to pinpoint one play in particular,
that spells out where the issues are and a lot
of people would say the Barkley first run right out
of the gates for the touchdown, that's great, and then
the twenty eight yard run that he had before he
looked to maybe pull a hamstring or have a groin injury.
But to me, it was the second and thirty one

(02:13):
when Bigsby comes in. They had sacked Hurts, he lost
twenty one yards on the previous play, and then all
of a sudden, the blink of an eye, they get
out of that and the rest is history. A few
plays later, Dallas Goddard reaches the end zone, and the
way that I looked at it is, you know, a
lot of people are talking about Dexter Lawrence and how
his maybe numbers are not necessarily coming to the forefront

(02:37):
as they were in previous seasons, at least from a
sack perspective. But what I think Philadelphia did a really
good job is they weren't running a lot up the gut.
They were running to the edges on the outside, and
that to me is the most problematic area right now
in the Giants run defense. And we talk about this
not just with respect to the Giants, but under the
label of all other really good pass rushers. You've got

(02:59):
to be able to say the edge as a great
pass rusher and stopping the run as much as you
are in pursuing the quarterback. And that, to me is
the biggest area that the Giants have to shore up
here moving forward. Because you can say all you want
about the Niners, and they have their fair share of
issues with injuries, but they still have Christian McCaffrey front
and center, who's more than crafty in terms of setting

(03:19):
the stage in the tone on the ground.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
I actually spoke about this on Friday Show because going
into Sunday's game, the Giants had allowed a success rate
two opponents running to the outside. I believe it was
something like fifty six percent. Not surprised here that I
don't remember if that's the exact number, but it was
a very high number, so high that it was the
highest success rate of any team in at least the

(03:43):
last decade. And that was before the Eagles did what
they just did. Now, Saquon's are on technically was not
outside the tackles. There was a massive gaping hole that
he ran through that I think you or I could
have honestly gotten through it.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
I don't know they would have taken it.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
To the house.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
But but on run, you're exactly right on runs to
the outside.

Speaker 4 (04:03):
I looked this up.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
Both Saquon and Tank Bigsby average something like over eight
or nine yards per carry on runs to the outside. Now,
the run defense just could not stop anyone. I mean,
even taking out Saquon's massive run, he still averaged something
like seven yards of carry on. The other carries you mentioned,
Tink Bigsby nine carries one hundred and four yards. I

(04:25):
mean that second and thirty one play. I mean, I
think you nailed it. I mean I saw the stat
I believe it was yesterday that said the Giants have
gotten opponents to a either first or second down and
eleven or more yards thirty five times. So that's either
a you know, a penalty on first down or some

(04:46):
sort of negative play on first down thirty five times.
The opponent has gotten a first down on twenty five
of them. Still, you know, you always talk about how
negative plays typically leads to drive stalling for offenses. That's
not really been case for They've overcome teams playing the
Giants because they just simply they cannot stop the run.
Right now, and this was after a two week period

(05:07):
where it looked like the run defense was starting to
you know, pick up the slack. The first four weeks
of the season it was not good. Then you have
the Saints and the first Eagles game, where they did
a pretty good job limiting both of those teams. I mean,
Saquan still averaged you know, over five yards of carry,
but he only got twelve carries. There was no other
running back that really made a difference in that game.

(05:28):
But then the last two weeks, the Broncos had one
hundred and forty two yards on the ground. Now, a
good chunk of that was Boneckt, but but.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
Still that counts though count for Look, teams have to
account for Jackson darn I didn't mean to interrupt you,
but I'll throw that in to me. It's not worth separating.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, no, for sure, but my point was just being JK.
Dobbin still enjoyed plenty of success in that game as well.
He averaged crazy high yards per carry in that game.
And then obviously this pass Sunday, Saquon taking Bigsby. I mean,
I guess you could say that they didn't let Jalen
Hurts run all over, but that's just because Hurts did
not have to, because Saquan was getting it done, even

(06:04):
taking Busy was getting it done, and Jalen Hurts was
doing basically whatever he wanted in the air. I mean,
he had This is probably the best two game stretch
of Jalen Hurts's NFL career. You know, seventy five percent
completion percentage, four touchdowns. He only threw for one hundred
seventy nine yards, but again, when you run for two
hundred and seventy six you don't really need to throw
the ball that much.

Speaker 4 (06:23):
And even when he threw the ball, in terms of
the efficiency, his guys made plays for him. Devonte Smith
had six catches on nine targets, and then the John
Dotson catch and he only had two targets. I mean,
that was just a great jump ball opportunity where the
quarterback is putting it up there and he's expecting his
guy to make a play, and that's exactly what Dotson did.

(06:44):
He was matched up against an inexperienced cornerback, of course,
and Corey Black and he out jumped him, Randy Moss him,
if you want to put it, and the rest obviously
ended up in the end zone in terms of him
finishing the play and then Dallas Goddard, who is not
the new kid on the block. I mean, we know
what can do. But the difference between if you want
to just look at it from a passing perspective, Matt,

(07:06):
take the running game out of it. What we just analyze.
If you want to hold up what the Giants did
through the air versus the Eagles, Philadelphia playmakers delivered came through.
I hate to use the line, but above the x's
and those types of plays, the Giants had some opportunities.
And I'm not saying that if these plays would have
been made it's going to change the trajectory or the

(07:26):
outcome of this game. That's going down a hypothetical road
which there's no proof. But you had an opportunity with
THEO Johnson down the field, Okay, left sideline, ball bounces
off his chest, Darius Slayton had a chance to make
a play. And we could pinpoint all of these opportunities
right in a variety of other games. The difference between
winning and losing football games because there's such a fine line.

(07:48):
I mean, look at the NFL standings. I'm not trying
to get off topic here, but if you look at
just the playoff race, there's not a lot of teams
that you're mathematically eliminating at this stage because so many
any teams are bunched together. And forget what's going on
in the AFC and the NFC between a five and
three record and a three and five record. Given the

(08:11):
Commanders set back, you're talking about that spot seven through
thirteen right now. So all it takes is a win
or a loss within a span of a week and
that final playoff spot completely flips upside down. The point
is all of these little things, you know, whether you
make a catch on third down, whether to your point,

(08:32):
you put a team in a second to twenty one
and you don't allow them to get over the hump.
You know, these are the things that the Giants are
not executing well in and that's why a lot of
these close games are not going their way, or they're
building leads and they're not able to maintain that. I
think it's explainable, especially when you look at what some

(08:52):
of these other teams who are ahead of them in
the standings are able to do here and there, even
if it may be through flashes.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, and frankly, it's not gonna get any easier this
weekend with the matchup against the forty nine Ers. Now
I know they have their own I don't want to
call it controversy. Quarterback situation, will put it Brock Party.
Maybe he's back, maybe he's not, Maybe it's mac Jones again,
we don't know yet. Brock Party is certainly better than
mac Jones. I don't think it's like such a significant

(09:21):
the way they've been playing this year, A not one
hundred percent Brock Party versus mac Jones. I don't know
if it's a significant difference, to be quite honest, but
the forty nine ers playmakers are among the best in
the NFL.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
I mean Christian McCaffrey.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
We just talked about the success that Saquana Tank Bigsby had.
Now McCaffrey has not been that efficient on the ground
this year, but he heads into Week nine as let
me pull it up here, he ranks eighth in the
NFL and receiving yards. Receiving yards alone as a running back,
he is second in yards from scrimmage, behind only Jonathan Taylor,

(09:56):
who's quite frankly in the MVP discussion right now with
the how Jonathan Taylors were playing. He's only seven yards
behind JT though, So McCaffrey is probably the most difficult
running back in overall to defend against because of how
much of a threat he is in the passing game
in addition to his rushing ability. I mean, he was

(10:16):
held in check this past week. The week before though,
he had his best game of the season on the ground.
I think he rushed for like one hundred and twenty
five yards.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
So this is going to be an incredibly tough matchup.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
You have George Kittle, who's back healthy now from the
injury that cost him the first you know, six weeks
of the season, five six weeks looking like normal George Kittle,
and he also has helped spring Christian McCaffrey. I mean
that performance I talked about two weeks ago great on
the ground, that was because George Kittle was back and
his run blocking is just invaluable to that forty nine

(10:48):
Ers team.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
The wide receivers. You know, I don't know if Ricky
Pearsall is going to be back yet.

Speaker 4 (10:52):
He's a lot of these guys are banked up.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Yeah, They've had their fair share of injuries as well.
The forty nine ers so tvd on Ricky Pearsall, but
Juwan Jennings looked like he's kind of back healthy. They
have Kendrick Bourne who's kind of stepped up in the
absence of Pierce All and Jennings.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
You know, they have playmakers, and I.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Know the Giant secondary, we don't know yet if anyone's
gonna return that missed last week. You know, by the
time that game ended last week, the Giants were down
not only Paul send A, Deebo and Javon Holland who
began the game obviously ruled out, but they lost Cordell
f Lott to a concussion.

Speaker 4 (11:26):
And that was friendly fire from Bobby o'carake.

Speaker 3 (11:28):
Yes, and as we know, the concussion protocol is not
a linear you know road. You know, it's maybe flat
is cleared, maybe he's not. We don't know yet. You know,
they lost our Green who well he hasn't been a
player on defense really one of the key special teams guys,
and just depth in that secondary. So we don't know
yet if any of those guys are gonna go back,

(11:50):
because at least for a debo in Holland, they did
not get on the practice field at all last week.
It's you know, if they had gotten a limited session
in Friday, that would give me some optimism into this
week that you know, maybe they'll be back. We'll see
with the injury report tomorrow, maybe they can get back
on the field. But it's going to be very, very
tough going against this talented forty nine ers team, especially

(12:11):
if the Giants don't get any of those guys in
the secondary back well.

Speaker 4 (12:14):
And also if you want to improve the run defense,
it also starts with the guys on the back end
who have to step up and slow down a tank
Bigsby because if they get in prime position to make
a tackle, that's the difference mat between maybe limiting it
to an eight or a nine yard run as opposed
to a twenty yard run. Because if you look at

(12:35):
the Bigsby run, and I know I'm emphasizing on one,
but first of all, he had great blocking on the sides.
He had I think Darius Cooper and Dallas Goddard sealed
it off, but Darius Muisou was in a position to
make a tackle, had him wrapped up, he sheds the tackle,
and then once you get past the second level, now
you're expecting somebody from the secondary to come in and

(12:56):
clean it up. So those secondary players, the experienced ones,
are critical in trying to do some damage control in
terms of the run defensive struggles. And the Niners, who,
as you pointed out, are dealing with injuries in their
passing game, they don't know necessarily who they're gonna turn
to a quarterback. They would love to rely on McCaffrey.
They'd love to have a run heavy game plan against

(13:16):
the Giants this week. And I'm sure Kyle Shanahan company
are saying, Hey, we'll test the waters. We'll see whether
or not the Giants have cleaned up their issues. If not,
we're gonna give McCaffrey. They have Brian Robinson Junior, who
they quiet from Washington before the season. It's not as
if they don't have the personnel to do that. And
until the Giants prove that they can slow that down,
you're not giving a team a reason to say we're

(13:38):
not going to run the football. And you pointed out
McAffrey as a receiver. You throw them the ball in
the flat and he gets five or six yards. That's
an extension of the run game. There's really there's no
difference from that standpoint. So that's gonna be the Niners
game plan unless the Giants can take those options away.
They're not gonna want if Perty comes back, they're not
gonna want him to throw thirty five to forty times. No,

(14:00):
and Bac Jones correct because he's also taken his fare
share of hits. So they're going into a game where
the weakness of the opponent plays right into their hands.
And now the cards are on the Giant side to
see whether or not, you know, they could punch back,
and that has been problematic. I want to flip the
script because here's the other thing to monitor from the

(14:21):
Giants offensive perspective. Matt I thought the Eagles did a
really nice job and probably the most effective job thus far,
in taking away or limiting Jackson Dart as a runner,
meaning saying we're not going to allow Dart to run
wild on us and get eight ten yard runs to
move the chains. Now, Dart still did a nice job
extending plays. I'm not saying that he was a statue

(14:42):
and that they kept him in the pocket, but what
they basically told Dart is you're gonna have to move
east to west. You're not moving north to south. That's
what Philadelphia was very effective in doing. And part of
that is, Okay, this is the first team that saw
him twice and right, when you get a good look
at a guy in person, it changes your perspective compared

(15:02):
to you're looking at him on film. Remember, Denver did
a lot of talking, Oh he's a young quarterback, don't worry,
and then you see the guy up close to personal,
it changes things. So I think that was part of
the reason. The other part was they only happened to
have Jalen Carter back on the field, which also tends
to help. But teams are going to get i think,
a better feel for dart strength and his athleticism, and

(15:25):
if they limit him as a runner. If you look
at the run numbers now, also game flow impacted this
of course, right the Giants are playing from behind. When
you're playing from behind, you don't have the luxury to
run the ball. But in fairness, twenty one runs for
sixty eight yards. Okay, they averaged three point two yards
per Carrie in this last game. It's not gonna cut it.

(15:46):
The last few games they didn't run the ball effectively
against Denver, and Denver also has a good run defense.
So now Skataboo's out of the equation, and even when
you had Skataboo, you weren't running the ball effectively. If
Dart doesn't get those game changing runs now, it falls
more on the shoulders of him as a conventional passer,

(16:07):
and I just I wonder whether or not that sustainable.
If his threat as a runner is no longer something
that you can rely on. That's another area, and the
boring answer is, oh, well, all of this revolves around
the trenches. Yes, of course, I mean that's football one
oh one. But I think we could peel back the
layers a little bit more. Where the athleticism of the

(16:29):
quarterback has meant so much of this Giant's offense. If
he can't tap into that consistently, I just don't know
how powerful this run game on an island can be,
is my point.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
I think that's probably the biggest thing to watch on
offense this weekend, because it's been five starts of Jackson
Dart's career now, the first three he had over fifty
yards rushing in all of them.

Speaker 4 (16:54):
Only the third.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
Quarterback in the last I think maybe ever or the
last twenty five years with like I think Deshaun Watson
and Jalen Hurts were the only other two that had
fifty rushing yards in each of their first three games.
But in the last two games he's carried the ball
eleven times for twenty eight yards. So clearly teams, you know, watched.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
The film for those first three weeks and made.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
Some adjustments and some strategies in order to take away
that aspect of his game. Now, the first one of
those two rough rushing games for Jackson Dart was against
the Broncos.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
And it was flying two mile high, playing in.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
Denver against that elite defense. That one kind of chalk
up to just, you know, a great defense playing well
and taking out an aspect of the opposing teams one
of their strainths. The second game was this past Sunday
against the Eagles, and then as you mentioned, the second
time the Eagles faced them, and again fifty eight yards
in a touchdown in the first game against the Eagles

(17:49):
on the ground. Clearly they went into this game with
an emphasis of not allowing him to keep them on
the ground. This Sunday, I want to see how Jackson
Dart does against his forty nine ers defense, because this
is a talented defense. Robert Sala has this unit playing
as if he never left San Francisco. You know, this
is like, maybe not quite to the level of the
elite San fran defenses we saw years ago, but let's

(18:11):
keep in mind they lost Bosa and Fred Warner to
season ending injuries, and he still has the unit playing
pretty well.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
But this will be a very good test for Jackson
because it'll.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Be his first time playing them, so not you know,
second time performance like this past Sunday against the Eagles.
It's a good team and especially as you mentioned, obviously
there's no Scataboo now. And while Scattaboo hasn't had you know,
the most efficient rushing numbers, there's obviously no argument against
the fact that he just provided the run game with

(18:39):
such a big boost. I would say the whole team
with such a big boost with both his play and
just his personality and his fiery energy. So the Giants
are gonna need Jackson Dart to step up even more
than he has this first month of his you know,
starting in the NFL. And that's saying something because Jackson's
played pretty well. It's not like he's been playing poorly.

(19:01):
He's played pretty well, the team has not been losing
because of his play, which you can look at some
other rookie quarterbacks this year, previous years, where was that
guy kind of was shouldering the load of why this
team was struggling. Jackson's not the reason. But now, after
losing Scataboy, after losing Molak Neighbors, I know it's kind
of an afterthought now, but Giants are still out their

(19:22):
top wide receiver as well. They're gonna need Jackson to
step up even more so, and it's not gonna be
easy against this forty nine ers defense.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
Yeah. Well, and that's why I think you're gonna continue
to learn a lot about your young quarterback as the
offense evolves more towards him as a thrower, as a passer,
because if you're limited in terms of what you could
do on the ground, and let's face it, Matt, I
think even if you had a heart art conversation with
Brian Dable, they're not gonna tell Jackson we don't want

(19:51):
you to run. But he's taken his fair share of
hits two when he has decided to take off and run.
And if you're saying, well, you're down all of this weapon,
so just try to create something consistently. It's once again
not sustainable and also dangerous to the well being in
health of your quarterback. So he's gonna have to also
learn that you've got to have some built in self

(20:13):
discipline because if you continue to absorb hit after hit,
it may not be one game, but over the course
of a season, there's gonna be a lot of wear
and tear. I don't think anybody on the team or
the coaching staff wants to see him go through that,
because you've got to think about longevity and these hits accumulative.
I mean, once again not to get off topic, but
Andrew Luck, who had right a very promising outlook, he

(20:36):
ultimately decided to retire because of the immense amount of
sacks that he took. And Andrew Luck was a runner and
was a really good athlete, by the way, and I'm
not trying to say that there's parallels between the two,
but the point is there's historical examples of quarterbacks that
have taken so much of the burden on their own shoulders,
thinking that they're going to put on the cape. And
while you commend the quarterback for doing that, you got

(20:59):
to protect them from themselves, so I think him is
a more pocket passer. Surveying the field, trying to take
what the defense gives him is going to be an
important element for him to adopt and to monitor here
moving forward for the Giants. One other thing that I
want to get to Matt before we open up to
YouTube comments as well as the phone lines. A lot

(21:19):
has been made of the Giants Eagles game from an
officiating standpoint, and I have a big picture perspective for
those that have been watching the show. I have said
this time and time again, and I'll continue to say it.
I think questionable borderline officiating. Good teams overcome that no
matter how you want to spin it. And I don't
buy any of the conspiracy theories that refs have it

(21:41):
in for specific teams or go out of their way
to screw things up. Was it a premature whistle on
the tush push. Absolutely, it was definitely a premature whistle
because Jalen Hurts was still fighting for position. However, Okay,
and this is not me playing Devil's advocate, Matt, but
this is where you know, I try to take the
hardcore fandom perspective out of the way. Okay, if you

(22:03):
go back to and I don't know if you remember this.
In the twenty eleven Super Bowl Run Giants played the
San Francisco forty nine Ers in the NFC Championship Game,
A mod Bradshaw had to play okay late in the
fourth quarter where he's fighting for positioning, okay, and he
fumbles the ball and there was a clear Niners recovery.
I went back and I watched the video the other day,

(22:25):
and I thought it was a premature whistle. The Niners
thought it was a premature whistle, and the Giants got
away with one, and they benefited from that. So you
could go through history of Giants Eagles, and I could
throw in the thirty other teams and you're gonna find
plenty of premature whistles. There was still enough time in

(22:45):
the game to overcome that. There was also a whistle
on the Jake Elliot missfield go. I don't know if
that came from the officials on the broadcast. I don't
know if you picked up on that, Okay. I don't
know whether somebody in the stands blew a whistle and
had it with them or it came from the officials.
But Sirianni was worked up over that. The point is,
you and I could sit here till we're blue in
the face. We could both analyze every NFL game and

(23:07):
I will find borderline calls every quarter, every second, holding misses,
and it's not going to change the outcome. I understand
fans are gonna be frustrated. You have every right to
be frustrated. But the point is you're going down a
hypothetical road where you're assuming, well, if the fumble counted
and the Giants get the ball back, I don't know
how the ensuing drive plays out, Matt, do you know?

(23:29):
I mean, in your crystal ball, we have no clue
how all of these things play out. And to me,
it's just it's wasteful energy over things that are more
the Kulda would have should have gained. And that's just
my perspective and how I see it.

Speaker 3 (23:42):
So I agree with you in the first thing you said,
isn't that good teams find a way to overcome bad calls.
The Giants did not lose this game because of the officiating.
That's just it's just not true. Now, it certainly did
not help all of the missed calls, And you brought
up the tushbush play. My issue with that is it's

(24:05):
not that it was in early whistle. If you, I'm
sure you've seen the replay, you can hear the whistle
and it is well after Kevon Tibbada already has the
ball in his hands and then they blow the whistle.
That is what I think everyone has the biggest issue about.
Jalen Hurts is still pushing and moving forward. If he
hadn't fumbled, they would have let the play keep going
until Jalen Hurts stopped moving forward. He was literally still

(24:26):
moving forward, reaching the ball out and he got it
ripped out of his hands and then the whistle came.
I think that is what everyone's biggest issue is. The
Only thing else I'm going to say about that play
is the one good thing about it is that play.
Should one signify the death of the tushbush that play
I think he's going to cause. I mean, it's I mean,

(24:48):
it's been the biggest topic of conversation for the nearly
forty eight hours now. People are still talking about it,
not just in Giants World, all over the country now
that people are still talking about that play and how
the refs just don't seem to be able to properly
officiate the toushbush, whether it's all of the false starts
that we've seen in the slow motion replays, this all

(25:09):
throughout the season to that, but that play on Sunday,
I think is going to be the you know, the
poster child or the lead evidence in supporting the banning
of the touchhbush after the season, and it was already
kind of closed last year. I think that is going
to be now the death of the touchbush. Thank God.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
I mean, well, I wouldn't jump to the conclude I
understand it's certain.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
I feel pretty confident that the death of the touchbush
because of that play. And it's just because again and
I'm not blaming the Eagles, it's not like they did
anything wrong on it, obviously, but the refs just don't
seem to be able to properly officiate the play. And
if there's a play that the refs cannot officiate, then
that play needs to be banned because it's just not
fair for either team if the refs are not going

(25:55):
to call it properly and consistently week in and week out.
The other calls, you know, some of the other questionable calls.
The Darius Slayton interference certainly questionable.

Speaker 4 (26:06):
I think it's fair to say it was hand fighting,
and was hand fighting.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
Both ways exactly.

Speaker 3 (26:11):
Yeah, the Corey Black defensive pass interference kind of a
little bit questionable as well. It could have easily been
called offensive pass interference. But nonetheless, the Giants didn't lose
the game because of those plays. It didn't help, and
as we know, momentum swings very quickly in games.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
So the Eagle scored on.

Speaker 3 (26:31):
The very next play after the Botch push push fumble
that was Saequon's touchdown catch.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Could things have been different? Certainly. As you said, we
don't have a crystal ball. We don't know.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Good football teams are able to overcome mistakes made by officials.
The Giants were not able to do that this past Sunday.
I think, you know, we kind of have glossed over
it a little bit. But the loss of Camp Scataboo
just you could see it on the face of basically
every single player as they were panning the video the
camera to all the players reacting to the injury, It's

(27:04):
like someone just took the air completely.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Out of the tires.

Speaker 4 (27:08):
They just it was deflated. After that, well, in the moment,
I think they were deflated. I don't know, though, Matt
by the time he got to the third of the
fourth quarter. I think athletes are mentally stronger than that
that they think about.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
I would normally agree with you ninety nine point nine
percent of the time, but this z point one percent.
It also happened to be the guy who is now
basically served honestly as like the hard and soul of
this team the last six weeks, like the fiery spark,
you know, the energizer Bunny. I mean, if this had
been anyone else on the on the Giants roster, Cam

(27:42):
Skatabu would have been the guy firing the rest of
the team up, being like, let's go win this for
you know, player X, Like, let's go do it for him.
And I feel like he probably would have gotten the
whole locker room like kind of rejuvenated. The fact that
it was him, of all the players, the guy that
has I mean him and Jackson had become like the
face of the you know, the future of the Giants.

(28:04):
The fact that it was him, I think was just
such a devastating blow, both on the field and.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Off the field to this team.

Speaker 4 (28:12):
Well overcome down now in the moment. I mean your
point is well taken in terms of the facial expressions.
I just once again, I don't know if there's a
correlation in terms of them struggling in the second half,
meaning the defenders not being able to start the run
had you know, saying, oh Man camp scatter the head.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
On the run defense, but losing that fiery spark plug
it certainly did not help the situation and the comeback.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
Efforts without a doubt. But you know, listen, Tyrone Tracy
had a lot of experience last season, and now he's
going to get an opportunity. We'll see whether or not
Turbo gets called up because you know, here's another lost
running back. So it's not as if they don't have
personnel on the practice squad. But you know, Scataboo's cut
from a different cloth. I think we've seen that, whether
it be on or off the field, his toughness and

(29:00):
this has become, you know, a season full of adversity.
But the NFL does not feel sorry for you. The
NFL does not give you additional cap space, the NFL
doesn't give you an additional draft pick. You've got to
make do this is why we talk at nausea and
about depth charts and evaluating the back end of the roster,
because sooner rather than later, even when you lease suspect,
you're gonna have to turn to guys that may have

(29:20):
only shown some flashes in the preseason, and the Giants
have been tested in this area in a lot of categories,
but you're not gonna get a savior off the street
at this point in the season. This is why you've
got to build that chemistry and you have to build
the strength of your roster sometimes in areas that once
again you weren't necessarily anticipating you were going to turn

(29:41):
to let's open, Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
Look on it. It's next man up. And we said
the same thing when Malik went down. You're one hundred
percent right, there's at this point there's no excuses. Kem's
Cattaby will be missed. But it's on to week nine
and now it's next man up. And to be one
hundred percent honest, having a guy who come off a
twelve hundred yard from twelve hundred total yards from scrimmage

(30:05):
rookie season as a fifth round pick in Tyrone Tracy
not the worst guy to have as your next man up.
I mean, he was the starter until he got injured
himself in Week three and that paved the way for
Skataboo to take over. And then obviously we saw him
run over multiple guys every week, and then you know,
he wasn't given the backfield back to Tyrone, but Tyrone,
he's no slouch like he is. If you're gonna have

(30:28):
the next man up in a backup running back, he's
got to be among you.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Know, if we're gonna call scatt as the.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
Starting running back, among the better running backs, backup running
backs in the NFL. He's coming off a very strong
rookie season. Everyone was so high on him. After the season,
he got a little overshadowed by Skataboo and just Skataboo's popularity.
But he's a good, a very good football player himself.
He's no slouch. I don't know if he's not gonna

(30:55):
run guys over obviously like camp Scattaboo does, but he
is a lot more elusive and he could force mistackles
by you know, jukes, just making guys miss as opposed
to running them over like we saw have seen Cam
do over the last month.

Speaker 4 (31:07):
So it's a different style.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
It's a different style.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
I don't know if the run game itself, I mean,
hopefully it doesn't take much of a step back With
Tyrone in, It's gonna look different, for sure, but he's
a very capable football player that you know the backfield
is still in good hands with him at Motor Well.

Speaker 4 (31:24):
You look at the Giants when they had some of
their wide receivers go down, they made the tweak to
go heavier with tight ends. So I don't think they're
going to revamp the running game. It's just going to
be more of a switch to a different type of runner,
but a runner that is familiar with members of the
offensive line and has been the focal point. So you hope,
like a little Jordan Humphrey took advantage of his opportunity

(31:45):
in the first Philly game that Tyrone Tracy now is
amped up to be getting his starting job back and
will run through it. But they're going to need that
running game to manufacture something so that it could balance
out what is going to have to be a little
bit more of a convey in passing game with Jackson Dart.
Let's head to the phone lines as we open things
up and move forward here on Tuesday's edition of bbk L.

(32:08):
It's presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle of the
New York Giants. We got Scott in New Mexico with us. Scott,
welcome aboard. What do you got for us?

Speaker 3 (32:17):
Hi?

Speaker 5 (32:17):
Guys?

Speaker 6 (32:17):
How are you doing today? You're right about good, Matt.
I'm going to disagree with you a little bit, and
I think in a way it's sort of a myopic
way of looking at that play to Tush push before
I get to my main comments. And the reason I
say that is, while that call is egregious and I

(32:39):
agree with you there, you're looking at it from the
football perspective. The NFL, in my opinion, looks at it
as an entertainment perspective. Every single game that Philadelphia plays,
everybody wants to see that play. Whether people are moving

(32:59):
before this or anything like that, they want to see
that play. And the NFL is all about entertainment, not
necessarily all about football. And so from my point of view,
I'm not sure they'll ever get rid of that play.
Then they make some adjustments, but I just don't see
that happening.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
I mean, they were just a few owner votes short
this pass offseason from it being man, I think it
was like three votes short. And now all the controversy
around the false starts that are called this fumble, right,
I think it certainly has momentum to be pushed out
the door.

Speaker 6 (33:32):
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you, but I just don't
see it. And maybe I'm on maybe they will get
rid of it, but I just think it's more an
entertainment perspective than anything else. But my main points that
I wanted to talk about was really the Giant sort
of rushing defense. Right now, they rank thirtieth, which is
they're giving up a little less than one hundred and

(33:53):
forty nine yards a game. It would surprise you to
learn who's thirty first in the league off either of
you know, but it's Buffalo and they're giving up one
hundred and sixty yards per game. But the interesting systistic
I wanted to go over with you guys was this
at home, the Giants are giving up one hundred and

(34:14):
ten yards. On the road, they're giving up one hundred
and seventy two yards, which is a really huge discrepancy.
And last year I think they gave up about one
hundred and thirty six yards, so there's a vast difference
a lot of the same personnel. So I'm asking, basically,

(34:34):
what do you attribute it to, because if they're only
giving up one hundred and ten yards with the same
personnel at home, why the discrepancy on the road with
such a big difference. It's almost what sixty yards different
on the road, And I don't understands the same personnel. Yes,
their injuries, but it seems to me a very big discrepancy.

(34:55):
I was wondering what you might attribute it to.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
Well, I haven't noticed that this parody. I I think
you got to take it the consideration. Number one's got
the opponents that you play, and I'm not saying that
they played teams that have struggled. Your home opponents have
been the Chiefs, the Chargers, and the Eagles, and we
just saw Philadelphia what they did, so they haven't drastically
changed their personnel. I thought Murray and Hampton had a
nice few runs for the Chargers in that game before

(35:20):
he got hurt the following week, and Kansas City has
been a great rushing team, so maybe some mix in
terms of who they've gone up against. Game flow two,
I think is another element that has contributed to the disparity.
All of those games, for the most part, either the
Giants were playing from ahead or they were in the mix,

(35:41):
so you didn't necessarily have to shift gears in terms
of what you were going to do heading in the
game and all of a sudden do a complete one eighty.
You look at the Saints game, for example, with the turnovers,
they had to start playing from behind, and now New
Orleans can run the football. So those are elements that
perhaps explain some of the disparities. But no, they haven't

(36:04):
taken one guy in particular out of the lineup. I
mean Matt and I were talking about there's been injuries
to the secondary linebacking corps. For the most part, they
have had at least a few pieces that they could
turn to, and we know the rotation up front. So
I look at it where you know, if you were
to tell me at a turning point to the season,
they lost Dexter Lawrence like they did last season, or

(36:26):
they lost Bobby Okarake, I think it's a little bit
more understandable the fact that there isn't that one player
to point to. Yeah, it makes it a little bit
of a head scratcher, but I think game flow and
who you played is probably the biggest reason. And as
far as your point about the Buffalo Bills and the
Cincinnati Bengals are thirty two for the audience to understand,
and the Bengals defense has been a mess the last

(36:47):
few seasons. Buffalo has been hammered by injuries on the
defensive side of the ball. I mean, unlike the Giants,
they have lost a lot of personnel. So while Buffalo,
I guess it's surprising just based on name, which is
I think what you were alluding to, if you then
look at who's been off the field for them, it's
not that shocking that the Bills have strugled immensely to

(37:09):
stop the run.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Yeah, I mean in terms of just those three home opponents,
I mean that the you know, you said that the
Giants have been better at home. Kansas City just does
not really run the football. Patrick Mahomes, I believe is
like still their leading rusher, which you don't want.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
Eight weeks into the season.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
The Eagles, you know, while they did finish with not
that many rushing yards, Seguon Barkley was averaging over five
yards per carry in that game. They just got down big.
Jalen Hurts attempted the second most passes of the season
in that game. The Chargers had over one hundred and
fifty yards on the ground against the Giants in that game,
So I don't really attribute it to, you know, a
home away split. In terms of the run defense, I think,

(37:48):
as Lance mentioned, some of it has just been gamescript
playing from behind or playing from you know, with the lead,
and then it's just honestly, I feel like when you're
playing in front of your home crowd, it's a little
easier to play I guess, discipline football. While we've seen
the defense, especially on the run, the run defense not
look so disciplined in some of these away games where

(38:10):
the opponents are just completely gashing them on the ground.
You know, the homefield advantage, obviously, it's a real thing
and it helps your defense certainly.

Speaker 6 (38:19):
Well, let me end it this way, and you know,
let's take your answers off the phone. Knowing what you
just said and knowing personnel that the Giants have on
the field, is can shame bowing, excuse me, Shane Bowing
remedy this so that they are rushing your rs, so
they become equid distant, whether it's you know, at home

(38:42):
or away. And are they going to change some kind
of defensive schemes that are going to prevent this amount
of yordage being gobbled up? And I know, Lance, you've
always been a proponent of if you can't stop the run,
you can't win. So what can they do? What do

(39:02):
you see from the personnel that are on the field
now they can sort of not necessarily eliminate the amount
of yours, but certainly get that yardage down considerably.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
It's a fair question, Scott. Yeah, and I appreciate the
phone call you got it, thanks for giving us a ring.
I mean the big picture perspective that Scott mentioned, Yes,
I'm a big proponent of that. And the biggest reason
is it's not so much during the flow of the game.
It's the fact that if you can't stop the run,
teams are going to be able to execute in the
red zone, which is no surprise. Philly was three for
three in the red zone. And you can tell me

(39:34):
all you want, well Hurts through to Goddard. Yeah, but
when you're bringing in the opposition thinking you're going to
run the football, now, all of a sudden it's going
to free up open space where it's tight to begin
with inside the twenty. So all of these little things
add up, and that's why you have to be able
to slow down the run game earlier before you even
get into the red zone for that very reason. As

(39:55):
far as can you change things, absolutely, I mean that's
what coaches are paid for to make tweaks to move
personnel around. I think it starts, Matt, and I'll go
back with the point I brought up earlier in the
show in case some of our viewers are just tuning in.
I think the discipline of the edge rushers is where
it starts, and not to me, is not Shane Bowen

(40:15):
shifting personnel. The Brian Burns is of the world. The
Kevon thibadau'z are the world. The Abdul catters who have
been moved around, I mean those guys, they have to
be able to set the edge in route to getting
after the quarterback and slowing down those outside runs. You
could put new secondary players in, you could put a

(40:36):
new linebacker in, but if those guys don't hustle towards
the line, and I'm talking about the sideline to help
out the edge players, it's not really gonna make much
of a difference. It starts, to me with the guys
up front. That's where the improvement of execution is gonna
have to come from. And it's not going to be
Shane Bowen taking somebody off the bench because your best

(40:57):
players are already on the field in that department.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, it starts with the starter stepping up. And they
would be the first ones to tell you that. I mean,
they say it, they set it in the locker room
after the game, like it. They all as a defense
need to step up. As you just said, No one
that's currently on the bench or serving in a reserve
role has a good argument for playing above the guy
ahead of them on the depth.

Speaker 4 (41:19):
Chart, especially in terms of the pass rushers.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Yeah, it's especially upfront, Yes, I mean even at all
three levels at this point. I mean, obviously injuries have
hurt the guys in the back end, but the best
players are out there for you know, playing the most snaps. Next,
Lawrence led defense the defensive line in snaps this past week.
The edge rushers, the big three guys are playing the
most snaps among the edge rushers. Like, it starts with

(41:43):
those guys, just simply stepping up. Now, are there tweaks
that you know, Shane Bowen and the whole defensive coaching
staff can make in order to you know, aid in
especially those outside runs. Yeah, you know, you could drop
a safety down into the box, put him at you know,
outside of your edge rusher is just another body out
there to try to limit those outside runs.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
There are little things you can do.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
You can't do that every play, though, Like it's gonna
start with your best players playing their best football. And
we've seen it in i would say, in flashes at
times this season. We have not seen that on a
consistent week to week basis from the defensive side of
the ball. And this is with you know, Brian Burns
NFL leading ten sacks. He'd be the first to tell

(42:27):
you his game has his season has not been perfect, obviously,
Dexter Lawrence, we know that we all want to see
more from him than you know, the half sack he
has through eight games. You know, those guys are gonna
lead any defensive you know, transformation we see in the
second half of the season. It's gonna be those guys

(42:48):
really kicking their game up to another level.

Speaker 4 (42:50):
You bring up an intrans point about bringing his safety down.
I think though, from Bowen's perspective, with Javon Holland down
now and a couple of other hurt, how creative can
he get knowing that also he needs to protect his
protect his corners, so it does limit him. Getting back
to Scott's question, I don't know how much tweaking could

(43:13):
be done in the secondary because if you're Boeing, if
you move now a safety down, and cord Dell Flott
if he can't play now, you're down your nickel and everything.
It's like how many games of musical chairs are you playing?

Speaker 7 (43:23):
Here?

Speaker 4 (43:24):
You still need guys on the back end to protect
deep passes. So I don't know. Under normal circumstance, Matt,
I'm with you, if he's got a fully healthy alignment
and allotment of safeties, maybe he can toy with bringing
a guy further down in the box. I just don't
think he has the luxury to do that totally.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
I was talking more just like the rest the season, no, no,
without a doubt on Sunday, and.

Speaker 4 (43:43):
I wasn't picking to pieces you suggest. I just you
got me thinking about that, and I'm saying to myself,
I just don't know if he can even entertain that in.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
His head right because of what he's feeling there is.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
Yeah, it's just it's a wild ride. While we're on
the topic, one other thing that I wanted to touch on.
We'll get back to your phone calls here in a second.
There's been a lot of talk, Matt about Dexter Lawrence's
production or the lack thereof, and the one thing that
I wanted to bring up, and I remember even talking
about this when Dexter had his breakout season. Dex was
never a sack guy. And the problem is, I think

(44:17):
in the wake of his seven and a half sack
campaign in twenty twenty two, when he made the Pro Bowl,
it flipped a switch in the fans perspective that, oh,
now Dexter Lawrence is an eight to ten sack guy
a season. And I would disagree with that sentiment. Dex
is a really good defensive tackle who stops the run,

(44:41):
who collapses the pocket. But remember that season didn't come
until his fourth year in the league. Okay, he was
in the league nineteen twenty twenty one, then twenty twenty three,
he played all sixteen games. He only had four and
a half sacks. So I would say his numbers Matt
went back down to where they were in the first
few years of his career. Okay, he went back up

(45:01):
to nine in twenty twenty four before he got hurt,
and then now we're eight games in and he just
has half a sack. The point is, Dexter Lawrence is
not TJ. Watt. Dexter Lawrence is not Brian Burns. He's
not these guys that year in and year out, you know,
you could pencil them in between eight to ten sacks

(45:22):
or even higher. And I think that one year where
his numbers jumped through the ceiling, it got people thinking
that he's that type of player. And I just I
never looked at Dex' is you pen him in for
the eight to ten sacked territory? And I think that's
thrown off the expectations of Dexter Lawrence. And I'm not

(45:47):
saying that you shouldn't hold him to a higher standard,
but I think they're a little bit unfair because even
to this day, he's not a big sack guy. Just
because he had one or two years that may have
jumped off.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
The page, they're kind of disagree with you because you know,
the first three seasons of his career, he did only have,
you know, a handful of sacks each year. But that
twenty twenty two campaign is where we saw him become
the Dexter Lawrence that we now know and love like.
He is now one of the most dominant defensive tackles
in the NFL based on the twenty twenty two, twenty
twenty three, and twenty twenty four campaigns where we saw

(46:21):
his sack numbers increase. I mean the lowest he had
was four and a half sacks in that twenty twenty three.

Speaker 4 (46:26):
But he had four in twenty twenty, Matt is my point.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
So yeah, that was before he took his game to
another level. Sure, he's now become established himself as one
of the premier players at his position. You expect the
numbers to increase with that, and they have for the
most prior to you know, not counting this season. The
last three seasons, every year he had more than that
four sacks. Of course one of the years. I mean,
they fluctuate, but by the point, it's not even it's

(46:49):
not purely the sack numbers. You look at his pressure numbers. Sure,
the pressure numbers are down significantly as well. He's in
the last couple of years, especially last year where he
had the nine sacks in twelve games, he had an
insane number of pressures as well, and that was with
facing a league leading rate of double teams. Now he
is once again leading the league in double team rate,

(47:11):
but the pressures just aren't there, and the sacks aren't there.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
The production, you know. Again, He's had.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
Plays where he's shown flashes of that old Dexter, but
on a consistent week to week basis, he has not
looked like the same absolutely dominant player as the last
three seasons. Now he has somewhat opened things up for
the guys on the edge, as we fully expected going
into the year, we said Dexter Lawrence probably still gonna

(47:38):
get double teamed a lot, and that's gonna leave Brian
Burns cave on Abdul Carter in those one on one
situations that they need to take advantage of, which they've
done I would say, like a solid rate, not maybe
quite as much as we were expecting or hoping that
they would.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
So I'm not saying that, you know, Dexter's having.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
A bad year. I just I think because of how
he's played the last three years. You're right, expectations have
risen for him, as they should because he's been three
time Pro Bowl, two time second All Pro second team.
Everyone expects him to play at that sort of level now,
and quite frankly, halfway through the season, we just haven't
really seen it yet. And maybe it's because he's still

(48:17):
coming back from last year's injury. You know, I'm not
gonna try to dive into potential reasons as to why
he hasn't looked like himself, but I do think that
him not playing to that same all Pro level that
we've seen the last three years that I think has
played a factor in the defensive struggles, especially against the run.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
Yeah, well, because that's to me his mo. It always starts,
regardless of his pressures and his sacks going up. As
you noted, I've always looked at him as the ability
to stop the run starts and really ends with decks,
because if they can get past that first level, you're
in a problematic area. And I guess I was looking
at it more from with the sack numbers going up,

(49:00):
there is this expectation that he's consistently gonna get there.
There are other numbers that are not the sexy numbers
that are down and I'm not saying that he's playing
at the same level, but it's the sack numbers that
is the easiest category for people to look up, and
those to me are unfair expectations because once again they
fluctuated even with him elevating his play. Overall, it's the

(49:23):
quarterback pressures, collapsing the pocket, and stopping the run. Those
are the three facets that I always evaluate Dexter Lawrence on.
I don't evaluate Dexter Lawrence on his sack numbers because
even when his play was recognized nationally, they still went
up and down. So that's I guess that's the lens
that I'm looking at decks compared to just the sacks

(49:43):
on an island at that point.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
And I'm not even saying that like we should expect,
you know, double digit sacks from Dexter Lawrence on a
yearly basis. Last year he had nine I believe it
was nine in the first nine games of the season.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
He was just off.

Speaker 3 (49:55):
It was a ridiculous, right, a ridiculous rate that we
knew was not sustainable, and it didn't hetail off at
the end before a season ending injury. But I think
it's fair to say that, you know, six to eight
sacks a year is like the area in which Dexter
Lawrence should and could, you know, get on a yearly basis.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
I don't think that's like the way he's played the
last three years.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
I don't think that's such an unreasoned No, it's not
a huge stretch.

Speaker 4 (50:19):
But I mean even that, I would say is still
Perhaps the eight is more on the high side to me,
based on his trend in his track record. But again
it's my point.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
In the first three years, his high was four sacks,
and that was again before he really elevated his game
to a whole other level. So if it was at
four and his game is now being raised to an
all pro level, obviously expect somewhat.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Of an increase from the four. I don't think. But
I mean five, eight is like that.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
I mean, listen, I think it's that crazy. I mean,
you and I just look at it differently, and that's fine.
I mean eight to me for a defensive tackle in
this league, eight is pretty damn it.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Press had seven sacks as a U freshman at Clemson.

Speaker 4 (51:01):
Well, but I mean the college game and no of
course talent.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
That was the next two years, those numbers did drop.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
And did you also look at the guy who's around
him at Clemson? Look at the guys around I'm not
saying he's playing with Joe Schmoe, but that at Clemson
on the collegiate level is a lot different in terms
of also the caliber the offensive lineman that you're playing
here in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
But the guy that he's been compared to these last
couple of years the most is Chris Jones.

Speaker 4 (51:25):
Well, I was gonna throw out Jeff Simmons too. You
look at Jones's numbers.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
I mean, yeah, he had last year.

Speaker 4 (51:31):
I mean last year he had a side numbers, but
you know, but prior to twenty three, fifteen point five
nine seven. But that Texas not a not territory match, No,
not yet.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
Chris Jones has obviously been doing this for a decade now.
Dexter Lawrence has had three really good years.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
And that's part of might get to this season.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
He needs to do it for longer to truly be
on the Chris Jones level. But going into the season,
that's where the expectations were. People were saying, who's the
best defensive tackle in the league. Is it Dexter Lawrence
or is it Chris Jones? That was the argument that
people were having.

Speaker 4 (52:01):
Well, I mean, I personally wasn't having that for the
very reason I would not put Dex in the Chris
Jones category because I don't think Dex has gone into
the sack consistent production that Chris Jones has. Also, Chris
moves inside and outside too in terms of how the
Chiefs aligned him, and that to me is huge context.
Dex and Jeffrey Simmons, I think are fairer comparisons the

(52:22):
Tennessee defensive tackle because I bring up his numbers the
last three seasons, including the current one five and a
half sacks, you know, and he had the pinnacle of
eight and a half in twenty twenty one, but eight
and a half, seven and a half. His numbers have
gone down actually, you know, because you get that one
great season that everybody thinks, oh, this is the expectation,

(52:43):
and I think that's a little bit thrown off.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
Well, Jeffrey Simmons has also just lost all the talent
around him, where now opposing offenses can just focus absolutely
early on him and kind of forget about anyone else and.

Speaker 4 (52:53):
That's fair too. Let's head back to the lines. Marcus
is in California with us here on BBA. What's happened
to Marcus?

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Hey, you guys doing Marcus just a lot.

Speaker 8 (53:06):
You guys are my only football friends, so you guys
get to hear all my rants and stuff this year,
and I just needed someone to try to is what
I told, uh the guy.

Speaker 9 (53:17):
But hey, Matt, did you go to Vanderbilt? I called
last week and then when I write when I got off,
he said something about Vandy.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
Yes, I did go to Vanderbilt.

Speaker 7 (53:26):
Dude.

Speaker 8 (53:26):
I worked at Vanderbilt Medical Center all during COVID uh
at the hospital there in the middle of the.

Speaker 5 (53:35):
Campus.

Speaker 8 (53:35):
So it's good to see Vandy doing good this year.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Man, go doors anchor down.

Speaker 7 (53:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (53:43):
Yeah, So I know last week, like, man, it is
it is bad. It's probably the last five quarters of
officiating has been the worst. Can't always blame the rest,
but I mean two of those last Denver touchdowns there
was a block in the back and they did have
you know, flat and the choke.

Speaker 10 (54:01):
Hold right on the one yard line.

Speaker 8 (54:03):
So it's been bad. But you do got to rise up,
like you said above the rest, like yeah, you have to.

Speaker 4 (54:12):
I mean, you can't waste energy doing that. Listen the
Broncos run happy about the pass interference call that set
up the Giants late touchdown, right, I mean, look at
what Sean Payton did, so you know they're singing the
same tune that you are as a Giants fan on
the reverse side. And then what did they do? They
drove the field and set up a game winning field goal.
So I mean, you and I we could all sit here, Matt,

(54:33):
everybody till we're blue in the face, and we could
come up with this should have been called on this
play and teams find waste overcome it.

Speaker 8 (54:42):
Yeah, and I actually think that we did in the
Denverer game. Until we did it. I mean, I think
we don't have anybody, but Jackson Dart makes the nobody's
that we have. And I'm not calling them nobody's, but
we know, compared to the Justin Jefferson's Jamar chases and
you know, just the even most team number twos, like
he's making them better. So I do see that in

(55:04):
Jackson Dart. Last week, I was like, we shouldn't trade
for a wide receiver because you know, we should just
roll with what we have. But now that cams out,
I do feel like Dart needs help. We don't have
a third round pick, so I don't know. I'm not
in favor of firing anybody. I never have been. I

(55:26):
think Davile's a great coach, but I don't know that
if the season keeps exploding the way it feels like
it is, I don't see how we don't do anything
but blow the whole thing up with like maybe eleven
player key players and start over. But then there's no coach,
like anybody that calls and says fire all these people.

(55:48):
There's no coach out there that has a pedigree that's
going to come in and change our franchise. Like there
isn't one, because if there was, they wouldn't be available.
So I don't know what. Like, I just really don't
even know at this point, I'm baffled and almost speechless.

Speaker 11 (56:07):
All right, Marcus, I hope we get there's a beat
up forty nine ers team that we can beat, like
we should beat be able to beat people like.

Speaker 8 (56:19):
It's we all get they all get paid millions of dollars,
Like just go do it, man, Go beat up on
a beat up forty nine ers team. That's coming to us, like,
let's do it. Let's goats in dark three and oo
at home, Let's do it all right.

Speaker 4 (56:33):
Marcus, appreciate the phone call. It's an unpredictable league. Look
at what the Jets did to the Cincinnati Bengals this
past weekend, and we could give you one hundred other examples.
Every time you think you know how the script is
going to play out in the NFL and it's thirty two,
teams have completely other plans. And the Niners, is Matt
and I talked about, have had their fair share of issues.
They had a rough game against Houston. They don't even

(56:55):
know right now who's going to be the quarterback. They've
been banged up, they've lost personnel, but Kyle Shannon company
actually are the poster child of finding ways with your
personnel to overcome that. The best example I could come
up with, if you remember a few years back, the
Niners came in to MetLife Stadium. They had played the
Jets the previous week. They lost everybody. Bosa got heard,

(57:16):
Jimmy Garoppolo got hurt, and they're on their third string
quarterback and they wound up putting up a very impressive
offensive performance. So Shanahan actually has been in this department
where he's had a rotating group of quarterbacks. A lot
of running backs go down offensive linemen and they find
a way. And that's the nature of the Beast when
it comes to the NFL. As far as the caller

(57:36):
entertaining the idea of making a trade, remember, if you're
going to make a trade, and I've said this multiple times, Matt,
it doesn't make sense to do that for a rental
for half a season. If you're going to bring in
any personnel, specifically though a wide receiver, it's got to
make sense for you beyond this year. You're not just
going to bring in a guy who you think may

(57:58):
provide a spark. So I think that's note. And then
as far as what happens after this season, and we'll
have plenty of time to analyze that, they are investing
in a lot of youth and draft picks. So when
you have guys on rookie contracts, there's only so much
turnover that you're gonna be able to adopt because you're
then going to have to remove those rookie contracts and

(58:20):
bring in veteran players are gonna cost more so that
also is not necessarily an efficient way of building a roster.
Keep that in mind.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Yeah, I mean a lot of different topics.

Speaker 4 (58:30):
There a lot to die jest.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
I've been, you know, steady with the whole trading assets
situation for weeks now and saying that the only way
it would make sense is if it's for someone that's
here beyond the season. A rental doesn't make any sense.
And it still holds true now, even more so now
that the Giants are two and six. The only thing
I'm gonna touch on that Marcus brought up is talking

(58:53):
about this weekend and you know, just go out there
and win with Jackson. Even with all of the injuries
the Giants have had, especially on offense Maleik and Camp Scataboo,
this team has not lost faith in itself and it
is because of Jackson Dark. Were you on yesterday's media
sessions the Zooms Greg Van rode and said this? He
basically asked, like, does this year feel any different? You're

(59:16):
two and six? You guys have been here before. Why
is this year any different than previous years? And he
said it is because of Jackson Dark. We know we
go into every single week. I'm paraphrasing here, but he said,
we go into every single week knowing that we have
a chance to win because we.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Have that guy at quarterback. So that I agree with him.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
I feel there's not any opponent now on the MAINI schedule,
or I'm going in being like, the Giants have no
chance of winning this game because when you have the quarterback,
when you have that figured out, everything else will fall
into place.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
So I'm not saying they're gonna win every game.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
They're obviously not gonna win every I mean, I hope
they win out, but I don't expect that to happen.
But Jackson keeps them competitive and just about every game,
and they think that they have a chance to win
every single game.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
And it starts with that rookie quarterback.

Speaker 4 (01:00:06):
Let's head back to the phone line Squeeze one morning,
Big Ed is in Maryland with us here on BBKL.
What's that Biby Gate?

Speaker 7 (01:00:13):
Hey guys, what's happening, how your guys doing?

Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
What's on your mind?

Speaker 12 (01:00:18):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (01:00:18):
Man?

Speaker 7 (01:00:19):
Quite everything. Listen, man, there is a defense to that
touch push. I played defensive line when we had to
play goal line defense, and let me tell you something.
You have to get right there on the line, but
you cannot cross that line, and you have to stay
in front of them, keep the offense in front of
you so that when they come across that line, you

(01:00:43):
can defend anything that goes too low or too high,
and then you can penetrate that particular middle winning normally
doing the closest pushing at it because the offense being
offside from tops. If you've seen it, and I'm sure
y'all seen that.

Speaker 4 (01:00:57):
Right, sure, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:01:01):
Yeah, So yeah, there's defense to that. Tesch fush, don't
don't got nobody tell you different.

Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
No, the Vikings, I mean, Brian Flores laid a guy
down on the ground to try to see whether or
not he could stop the low penetration from the Eagles
offensive line. So it's challenged everybody, But I'm with you.
If there's a will, there's a way. And I would
disagree with Matt from what he said earlier. I think
it's close and there's gonna be more of a conversation,
but I would be still surprised if they completely got

(01:01:30):
rid of it.

Speaker 7 (01:01:31):
Nah, don't get rid of it. It's part of football,
that's what it's all about.

Speaker 4 (01:01:35):
You can't run away from it. You got to embrace
the challenge. Is it football?

Speaker 7 (01:01:40):
Yes?

Speaker 12 (01:01:40):
It is?

Speaker 4 (01:01:41):
What else you got for us football?

Speaker 12 (01:01:43):
You got to get down with the knuckles man, You
got to get underneath them. You that's the difference with it, because,
mind you, years ago the touchbuss was used a lot,
but it was just certain teams that used it because
they knew they could do it it wouldn't be an issue,
while other ones they really just say, you know, they

(01:02:03):
get away from it. But that's old school football for real,
you know, because it's always been about it's mainly been
about being at that one yard line trying to go
over the goal line. That's where it merely that's where
I've seen it be the most.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
Look, I don't you didn't have to go into a
whole you know, another conversation about the touschwish. I just
don't see how you can keep a play that the
officials who are supposed to obviously maintain the you know,
the make sure no one has competitive advantage throughout the game.
If those people that are responsible for keeping the game
fair are just simply unable to officiate that specific play,
I don't see how you can keep it right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
That's my argument.

Speaker 5 (01:02:43):
Yeah, okay, I'm gonna make that big being and he
okay with me, Matt as well as I'm sir. Now
back to this Jackson dark thing. Now, listen, he's our QB. Okay,
it's a rookie year. He's gonna go through the ups
and downs right now.

Speaker 10 (01:02:58):
That's fine. The key to us is we just got
to keep fighting. We can beat everybody, and I mean
everybody on the rest of their schedule we got. We
can beat every last one of them, but we can
only beat them one game at a time. So it's
just like just got to practice well every single week.
We've got to practice well, and then when the bye

(01:03:20):
week comes, we can really sit down and like really
get a hammer out how we can finish out the
season strong because we're not so far out of it,
but we can't keep losing them on games.

Speaker 8 (01:03:34):
And I think that's what we're just now.

Speaker 10 (01:03:36):
So just practice up well this week. Everybody, get ready
because November of football is almost here. This is your
big ad, my big ad.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
Everyone's big d R yep sounds good man.

Speaker 4 (01:03:51):
Appreciate the phone call and listen. I get the point
about reevaluating things during the bye week. The problem is
you got five games before you get to the bye week.
So by the time you get to the bye week,
if you don't clean up, especially the run defense, it
may not be much of a conversation. And oh, by the.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Way, those five games.

Speaker 4 (01:04:10):
Well, look at the teams. I mean, before we wrap
up here, we talked about McCaffrey Chicago. DeAndre Swift has
been running the football I think a lot better than
he was the previous season. And we know the Bears
offense is different. Josh Jacobs is one of the most
efficient runners in football. We know what the Lions offer
in terms of their two headed monster and Gibbson Montgomery
and New England. I don't wouldn't say they have a
powerful run game, but that offense also has looked a

(01:04:32):
lot different with Josh McDaniel's returning as the OC and
Drake may having a very strong campaign, which is not
a surprise because McDaniels has a great track record. So yeah,
I get the point, and it goes back to this
league is unpredictable. Could the Giants be competitive? Can they
win these games? Of course they can. I mean, we
can make an argument for every single one of these weeks.
But this is no picnic leading into the bye, especially

(01:04:55):
when it comes to the caliber of the run games,
which is once again big theme of the conversation Mat
and I were having that if you don't put a
stop to that, really doesn't matter what else you feel
good about, because that is the biggest area that has
come back to bite them.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
I mean, those five games before the bye are against
five teams that are all above five hundred. The Bears
are the worst of the group at four and three,
sitting half a game out of the last wildcard spot.
All other four currently in in the playoffs. You know,
Green Bay is leading the division, leading the conference. The
Patriots are second in the AFC. I mean, this is
gonna be the whole schedule. It was tough, we spoke

(01:05:33):
about it before the season, but this is gonna be
a very very difficult stretch of games where we're gonna
find out how much fight this Giants team really has.
I mean, they're so depleted right now on both sides
of the ball due to injuries. Time to see what,
you know what Jackson and the rest of this team
is made of. Like, let's see them. Not saying you
have to go five and zero again, that would be fantastic,

(01:05:54):
but win a couple of these games, show some fight,
go into the bye wee feeling good about the direction
of the team, both this season and for the future,
and I think that will leave at least most Giants
fans somewhat happy.

Speaker 4 (01:06:07):
By the way, another reminder, speaking of conversations, when the
schedule came out, everybody looked at Oh, New England's a
winnable game in week thirteen. Yeah, this is why you
don't look at records from a year ago, or the
Bears and how they have changed their outlook. It's important
to wait and see how these teams align themselves during
the course of the current campaign. All right, that is

(01:06:27):
going to wrap things up for us here on Tuesday's
edition at BBKL. It is brought to you by Cadillact,
the official luxury vehicle the New York Giants. We are
in the Giants Podcast Studio, presented by Hackett Zach Murdy
in health, keep getting better. Appreciate everybody tuning in for
Matt Sidetech. I'm Lance Meadow. Stay locked to Giants dot
Com from the latest and we'll speak to you on
Wednesday right here on BBKL. Have a good one,