Big Blue Kickoff Live 10/29 | Bouncing Back Against the 49ers - Big Blue Kickoff Live | New York Giants

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a Big Blue Kickoff line.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Do it because you're on Giants dot com.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Do you know what I saw? Do?

Speaker 1 (00:12):
York Giant Crack and the Giants Mobile.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
At seventeen the Final Tuck Down a.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network. Let's go on Crag.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello everybody, Happy Wednesday. Welcome the Big Blue Kickoff Live
presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle the Giants. We're
in the Hackensack the Hell Podcast Studio. Keep getting better.
I am John Schmelk.

Speaker 4 (00:37):
You look different.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Top of the Morning to you.

Speaker 4 (00:40):
Hi, Johnny? How are we doing?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Shawnee? What's up? Buddy? Time?

Speaker 5 (00:43):
Top of the afternoon? What do we I mean? Nooner
for you?

Speaker 2 (00:46):
It's always for you, It's always Top of the Morning, Sean,
You're right, I don't want to have that discussion with you.

Speaker 5 (00:52):
Always Top of the morning.

Speaker 4 (00:53):
Good to see you, man, Yes, get to see too bad.
Yeah you have less hair than Madeline. Yes, I'm trying
to get us to that right now is the cover?

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, I'm sorry you have much you know you have
something something much less attractive today.

Speaker 4 (01:05):
Good to see you and yeah, happy Halloween week. Yes,
it's it's no longer a day. It is now a week.
When you have kids, it is a week now.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Clara has already had three Halloween events.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
So she has two costumes this year because we were
afraid of she just had the one. It would get
ruined by the time we got that Halloween. So she
went with and we will get the football here, folks.
This wasn't planned. She did Hermione Granger from Harry Potter
for the first three events, and now starting moving forward,
there's I think two more events maybe something. Are you
aware of the Descendants?

Speaker 4 (01:37):
Oh my goodness, am I aware?

Speaker 5 (01:39):
I know the whole playlist. My daughters are all in.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
I took them to their Descendants at the Prudential Center,
the saying every word.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
The Descendant Zombies, Yes, zombie. Clara went to the one
in MSG in the guard goodness.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
So it's that Ink and K pop.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
K Pop Demon Hunters. I banned her from watching K
Pop Demon Hunters because I watched the first first, like
five minutes of it, and I thought it was inappropriate.
And then another parent convinced me to watch the whole
thing without her, just to change my mind.

Speaker 5 (02:06):
Yeah, are you are you? Are you changed?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
I think I haven't told her yet, Clara. I hopefully
you're not watching. I think we're gonna once Halloween's over.
I think we are going to give her permission to
watch it.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
Okay, Yeah. My daughters love the songs, so it's like
when we get in the car, they're like, Danny, can
we play DJ? And they played over and over. My
my son just looks at me as like again, like
this song again. How are your daughters then ten and six?

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Oh? Okay, yeah, Clara's eight, so they're all right.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
Yeah, rights, but I feel you. On the costumes, here's
my question, so Cli.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
So Clara's Rise of Red will be the second one.
So she is the red wig, the red costume. I
think that's the sentence four. If I'm not mistaken, I
could be wrong.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
I don't ask me to label them. I can tell
you what rocky it is one through five, but not
so my question do you John is do you go
with the costume with her? Like? Do you kind of
assimilate your costume with her?

Speaker 2 (02:56):
I don't do costumes.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
You don't do costumes.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
I don't do costumes. Okay, the wife wants me to
do a costume, you.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
Slam that door shut real quick and you put your
foot down.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
And I have so far resisted. I don't know that's
how permanent that's going to be. Okay, but I've survived
the first eight years of my daughter's life. The problem
is that one of these days, my wife's gonna come
with an idea for the whole family. Yes, and and
she she knows this, like if she comes up with
the right theme.

Speaker 4 (03:22):
Like Despicable Me, like if everybody does a.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Character, so like if I get to dress up likey
Darth Vader or Boba Fet, guess what, I'm probably gonna
be okay with that.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
I'm with you.

Speaker 5 (03:32):
And if you're outside and it's cold, you could be Chewy,
you know, in.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Your warm I would absolutely be Like if I could
be Chewy, like my two kids can be e Wox
or something like that, Like I would absolutely.

Speaker 5 (03:42):
Do Chewie would be awesome.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
Mandalorian Like that goes right into that that's a badass autphab.
I'd good with that, Like the fact that you've been
able to dodge it like the younger years, like I
think you're good because as they get older, they don't
want to be associated with mom and my.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Son's only three, so we still have him in the mix.

Speaker 4 (03:59):
So yeah, so you still well, you still got a
couple of years where the pressure is going to be high.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
He is cookie Monster this year.

Speaker 4 (04:04):
You know what's what's tough is I jumped on that
costume situation early because I'm like, you know what, I
want to be the fun dad and I want you know,
I got into it. I love my kids get dressed
up and I love being a part of it. But
then now the expectation is, well, what are you gonna
be this year? And now it's now it's like all right,
if you take a year off, then you feel like
a real dead beat because now you're like, all right,
am I tapping out? But it does get tough with

(04:27):
multiple kids and trying to kind of constant, you know,
coordinate all of the costumes and make them all work together.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
And underrated aspect of palting is keeping parenting is keeping
the expectations low.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
The less that they think you could get, yeah, that's
the less you can mess up.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
That is the one problem. I'm sure you know the
show Bluey correct.

Speaker 5 (04:49):
Oh yeah, it's a great shot Blue and Bingo.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Blue's an awesome show, but they do raise the expectations
for parenting in Blue. They are very involved at all
times because at some point you're like, kid, you got
to go play in your own Like I can't be
involved in your games at all times. I have like
housework to do. I have to do taxes.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
One hundred percent. Blue is on on every weekend.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Saturday, is right, and I love Louie. It's a great show.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
It's it's definitely now. They don't even want to watch
it on like the regular TV. They want to go
to the app so they can just binge watch and
it's like episode after episode after.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
And they want to pick the episode, right.

Speaker 4 (05:24):
Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (05:25):
So yeah, we're good times. We're in we're in the
same boat.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
No, we are.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
We're in the same But it's like I can I
watch film while we're watching Blue.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
See, Sean, you can't have these conversations with Madeline, can you.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
No. No, it's a little different, different vibe. She's she's
probably working on her costume for different parties. She's be
adult party.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
We're the kid party, yeah, because we're all that have trojaned.
We don't have adult fund anymore.

Speaker 4 (05:47):
The last thing about the whole kids and Halloween stuff
is every year, it's like the candy situation is out
of control, and we end up with more candy at
our house after Halloween from the stuff that we didn't
pass out, So you have a whole tin of it,
and then you're going on getting more candy. And then
my wife two days after Halloween, she's like, get it
out of here, and so it's like mass exodus.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
She doesn't if it's in the house, she's gonna eat it.

Speaker 5 (06:11):
She will eat it too.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, well that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (06:13):
Yeah, and so you try to limit it. But she
showed me an article one time. She was like, you know,
there's a parenting hack where you let you don't restrict
the kids for like thirty six hours. They can eat
as much can as they get and they get sick
of it. And it's like if they just binge e
and binge, and then they're like I'm done it, Like
I don't, I don't want it. We have never tried
that because I think my wife's worried that they're just

(06:34):
gonna keep going and keep down like children.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, it's the problem.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
I don't think they will ever tap out of the
twigs and the Milky Ways and the Snickers.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
What's your favorite Halloween candy?

Speaker 5 (06:48):
I'm a Milky Way.

Speaker 4 (06:49):
Is my favorite Milky Way? Okay, yeah, I like too.
But I'm a big peanut butter chocolate, so I love
the Reese's peanut butter cups. I'm a big caramel guy,
so I like Milki. I like Twigs.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
I'm a big caramel and chocolate guy, so I'm Twigs.

Speaker 4 (07:03):
I do the chocolate. One hundred grand, Yeah, hundred grand
is very underrated.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Extremely underrated candy.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
But like my kids like I don't want that, I
want that. I'm like, I will take one hundred grand
all day long.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
The candy or the dollar amount one of the other.

Speaker 4 (07:16):
Sign me up. Excellent milk dud, good whoppers, I love it.
My wife hates whoppers, like the balls, I love them.
I love all that stuff, so chocolate stuff. I'm all
for it, with the gummies and this all that other stuff.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
And like I'm not a Skindles guy either. Yeah I
can't get like.

Speaker 4 (07:33):
Them, but I can go without them. I don't need them.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
And I don't like peanut butter, so that actually, so
that's so you're shrinking, So that limits my window, Like
caramel and nougat. I'm good, but once you get into
the peanut butter area, I'm not so much.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
So three Musketeers, that's good, you're good. Snickers, you're good.
KitKat Love crunch bars, Yeah, love a nice crunch bar.
Where are you on the butterfinger? Because that one I
feel like is it's not really it's like peanut butter,
but it's like it sticks in your teeth kind of
like weird kind.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Of yeah, but butterfinger, I'm I'm not into. Okay, all right,
baby Ruth, no good.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
So one other hack that my wife found was.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
Also a dark chocolate gather that the milk chocolate gay
by the way, dark chocolate.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
Okay, I'm a fan of that, the special dark.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
I love this.

Speaker 5 (08:12):
So you take all the.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
Chocolate candy bars or little minis from the Halloween left
hoars and you take like cookie dough, playing cookie dough,
and you put the canny bars they're called Halloween like
monster cookies and taking chocolate out instead of throwing it
out or getting rid of or just eating it by itself,
you put you put them in the cookies.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
You chop them up when you put them in hole.

Speaker 4 (08:32):
No, you you could well, you could chop them up
if you want, but you just put them in the
little bite sized ones, the Mani ones. You put them
in in the cookies, and then you've got like Halloween
monster cookies with the leftover Halloween can kind of a
surprise in the middle.

Speaker 5 (08:42):
Yeah that's pretty good.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Now, and you don't know which mini ones in the middle,
so you kind of get the extra surprises they could be.
Now if I would now, if I bit into it, it
was like the Mister good bar, I'd be pretty annoyed.
I'm not in mister Goode. You don't like the nuts, No,
I don't like the nuts. Now chocolate. The almonds will do, though,
like likeonds in it.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
Yeah, I'm okay with that, but not the mound.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Mounds are okay, okay, but coconuts all right, I'm.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
Just you like the nuts. I peanut and eminem's I
will take all day long over regular.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
See, I'm not a peanut. I'm a guy. I don't
like peanuts, gotcha.

Speaker 5 (09:12):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (09:12):
So there you have parameters.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Pretzel lemonems. Have you had a prets lemonem?

Speaker 6 (09:16):
I have?

Speaker 2 (09:17):
They're very good. I like the press ms. Those are good.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
I like this I'm getting now now, don't get hungry now,
I kind of want some candy.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
All right, giants coming off what are we talking about again,
candy out of all giants coming off the lost of
the Eagle, Sean, we don't need to rehash what happened
there unless you want to kind of give your two
cents real quick, especially on the defense, which really struggled.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
Yeah. Well, I mean, since we're talking about candy, this
is like eating a warhead right now, like like the
pucker power after losing the birds right now, it's like
you know, the lemon, the lemon drops like you know this, Yeah,
you know, after we beat the Eagles a couple of
weeks ago and Thursday they football, it felt like, all right,
we know this is going to be a different game,
and playing down there obviously adds a little different element.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
The Giants were better in the trenches than the Eagles
on both sides on the Thursday Night game two weeks ago.
When is the last time we could say.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
That we dominated that game, Like it wasn't just you know,
the Thursday Night game wasn't a fluke. It wasn't hey
we won on a you know, a last second drive
or a field goal, a bunch of takeaways was I mean,
we clabbered them and I don't know the last time
that we physically dominated that game. And then this game
felt totally different. Now, granted Jalen Carter didn't play that

(10:26):
Thursday night game. He did play in this game this
past Sunday, but you know, it just it felt like
it felt like early on our defense struggled right out
of the gate. I mean the first drive again, Saquon
Barkley got hot quick, and that just never we never
seemed to be able to slow that train down. And
when the Eagles, when they're running the ball, well, everything

(10:49):
else just layers off of it and it just seems
like it's a really it's a boulder that's really hard
to stop if once they get that going.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
And it was big boy football showing it was twelve personnel,
it was extra how many times in fred to go
out there was the extra offensive lineman.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
Yeah, they came into it with a plan, and you
know what, you can say, maybe they deviated little bit
because A. J. Brown was out and it was like, hey,
you know what, let's get back to the base. But
to be honest with you, when I was just breaking
down the Eagles before the Giants even played him, and
everybody was saying, what's wrong with the offense, Well, they
got away from what they were doing last year. Last
year Sakwan had two thousand yards rushing. They were a
run first offense and then they banged you up with

(11:24):
the explosive play action and the deep shots down the field.
So I don't know why, but it took them until
this point the season to kind of get back to that.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
They tried to run, they just haven't run successful in
ye three yards to carry.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
And they had They've had a lot of turnover in
the offensive line position as well. They've had a lot
of injuries Dickerson. Landon Dickerson, I don't think he didn't
play against us in the Thursday night game, and then
you know when you I think it's toth Or. He
ended up moving over to center. He played guard when
we played him on Thursday night, and then he moved
to center in this game.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Actually did a pretty good job b center for them
in that game.

Speaker 5 (11:58):
He did.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
Yeah, I mean he held up again Dexter, which is
not easy to do.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Which is part of the problem about it.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
But I think I think Lane Johnson, Lane Johnson and
Jordan Mailatta. I mean, look, they're they're two of the
best tackles on the league right now, and I thought
they played like it against the Giants on Sunday.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
What's wrong? And now I'll get into the to the
defense here. And I did a deep dive heard, I
looked at a bunch of different numbers. I'm gonna give
you a few just to kind of give me a
basis of it, and then we'll kind of dive into
the run defense first the night some stuff on the
pass defense to want to hit on before we get
to your calls here. Okay, so basic stats, yards allowed
per play. I like that better than the yards per
game because it gives you an idea of, you know,

(12:33):
how much the defense is on the field and stuff
like that. So yards per play Giants are twenty sixth overall.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
For the whole season.

Speaker 5 (12:38):
This is through through week.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
It's by mid season. I think it a good time
to kind of do like a little self scat there, right,
So twenty six then yards allowed per play twenty ninth,
and yards allowed per game past yards allowed per play eleventh,
actually not bad, pass yards allowed per game twenty fourth,
rush yards allowed per play last in the league. Wow
per game third to Lee. Now, so more advancedats, I'll

(13:01):
give them to you. These are overall efficiency type of
numbers all right. Overall DVOA is twenty sixth EPA per
play is twenty eighth. Success rate is twenty third, so
that's all in the mid twenties. That's overall against the
pass DVOA eighteenth EPA nineteenth, success rate fifteenth, so that's
kind of close to the middle of the league. Rush

(13:21):
DVOA last EPA last success rate twenty fourth.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
Right, when you say rush, that's run.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
Rush, yes, yes, run defense. That is correct. And then
if you want to look at big plays, we've allowed
the second most plays of twenty more yards this year.
I'm twenty fifth on the ground. No, this is overall
overall twenty fifth in the league. And overall big plays allowed.
In terms of rush plays of twenty plus yards, we've
allowed ten already, which is last in the league. Rush

(13:51):
yards of ten yards or more we've allowed thirty seven,
which is also last in the league. Pass plays where
fifteen yards or more twenty six, twenty yards or more fourteenth,
which is right in the middle of the league. So
it kind of gets you to the point that, all right,
the issue here is the run defense. We play with
a lot. It's funny. I looked at this too. We
play with a lot of light boxes, Sean, we don't

(14:12):
like putting extra guys in the bas Here's the funny part.
Our advanced numbers like EPA allowed per rush and success
rate allowed per rush is better with light boxes than
it is with heavy boxes. So I don't know if
we're having issues when teams go to twelve personnel or
bigger than that light the Eagles did last week, or

(14:33):
and our extra defensive linemen we're putting on the field
isn't doing a good job. But we've actually been better
with our nickel defense on the field than we have
been with our base defenses. I thought it was interesting.

Speaker 4 (14:43):
Yeah, so i'd be in order to make sure we're
comparing apples apples, Yes, like I would look at what
are the amount of reps that we're in that nickel
package defense compared to that base more.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
We're definitely in nickel more than we are in base gotcha.

Speaker 4 (14:56):
Okay, So yeah, listen, I think the number one thing
every if as a coordinator starts out saying, look, the
number one thing we have to do is stop the run.
That's always paramount that as mission number one. When the
Giants hired Shane Bowen from Tennessee, one of his strengths
was stopping the run. I think he was fifteenth or
better his couple his couple of years when he was
the Titans defensive.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Court top five twice if I'm not mistake.

Speaker 4 (15:17):
Yeah, they were phenomenal at stopping the run. So it's
a little bit surprising to see that. You know, when
you look back at this Eagles game, Saquon Barkley averaged
ten point seven yards of carry.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
And overall is a team, they're eight point five.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
And then their backup running back was eleven yards per carry.
So when you kind of look at those, obviously the
game got away at the end a little bit, but
those are things that I feel like have reared their
ugly head all year. Like we've been giving up big
runs to everybody. I feel like this whole season that
has kind of been our kryptonite, and those big runs
are what inflate those numbers.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
So well, yeah, I mean I've listened it right, They're
last in the league and rushers allowed over ten yards
and over twenty yards. By the way, this was the
same problem last year, same problem last year.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
They go hand in hand. So that that to me
is surprising, especially when you look at the front for
the Giants, like that is the strength that front defensive line,
which with Burns, you know, with Thibodeau. And so I
look at the run game as where are a lot
of those big runs coming from. And as I've kind
of looked at a lot of those runs, look the
first four or five yards that is, I put that

(16:18):
on the D line.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
I agree with that.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
Okay, forty run after four or five yards over that.
Now we're talking about second level defenders and safety inserts,
and I think that is where the Giants have really struggled.
They There have been times where the gap integrity two
guys in one gap, some guy's not filling the safety
is not coming down fast enough. So you could come
you could have that backside ce gap as a safety.

(16:40):
But if you're slow and rotating and coming down and
diagnosing it's a run, now you've got four yards in
between you and the back. That happened to Tyler Nuban
on that big run against Saquay.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
People are killing Nuban on that play. But to me,
once once you get in that position in the open
field one on with Saquon, you're done. He can't make
that tackle. But the problem is that he cannot put
himself in that situation.

Speaker 4 (17:00):
Point is he didn't recognize the run until and he
didn't react to it. So you see run, you got
to come up, and you got to you you run
up because now that shrinks his running lane. If you
sit back and wait one hundred percent, now you get
one on one with.

Speaker 5 (17:13):
With four yards.

Speaker 4 (17:13):
But Seguon Barkley, he's got the whole list of tricks
that he can do. He can spin, he can jump over, backwards,
do whatever. Those are things that you've got to get
better at. I also think Michah McFadden, like we have
not recovered really from that loss com He was phenomenal
when he was at will. He is great at his

(17:34):
attack angles, and I think when you talk about big runs,
the angles are such a big part of it. If
you take a bad angle, you're cooked. So I think
Michael McFadden the value that he brought to this defense nobody.
It's one of those things you don't appreciate it until
it's gone. And him not being out there has definitely
been a factor in it. I will also say this,

(17:54):
Bobby Ocaak, there has been times where I don't know
what he's looking at, and I don't know why he's
so late to die. I know something. He has been
a tackling machine for his first two years, and this
year it just it seems like he's he's like one
step behind a lot of the runs. And I don't
know if it's he's trying to do too much, or
he's thinking too much, or he's just not seeing it.

Speaker 5 (18:15):
You know.

Speaker 4 (18:16):
Give credit to the offense. They're doing a good job
with kind of hiding some of the things they're doing
and disguising some of the things with different Instead of
pulling a guard, they're pulling a tight end. Maybe you
don't see that.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Polling a center sometimes do even by the way.

Speaker 4 (18:27):
Yeah, so I think that's you know, when you kind
of add all those things up together, you get that
hot mess that you just shared with us.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Correct. All right, So let me just dig into this
a little bit more, because I agree with everything you said,
by the way, and I feel like a lot of
those big run Shawn's are coming on the perimeter. It's
a lot of stuff that's not running up the middle
of stuff that's going off tackle. It's pitch plays outside,
it's pin poles that are going outside, things of that nature.
So one talk about better of his light boxes. J
Phillips is actually really getting the wrong game. And I

(18:54):
think maybe not having him on the field hurt you
when he's off the field when you're not a nickel personnel.
So that's one thing I'll throw out there that I
think maybe he's better at beating the other teams slot
receiver than our extra defensive lineman is better at beating
the offensive lineman that he's lined up against.

Speaker 5 (19:09):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, So I just throw that out there. But what
do you think this issue has been on perimeter runs?
And I guess the second part of that then you're
talking about inserting reading, you know, identifying where you got
to go Quicker. This doesn't sound like listening to you
that you see this as a fundamental scheme issue.

Speaker 4 (19:26):
I think I don't think it's a fundamental scheme issue.
I think it's execution more than scheme. And you know, listen,
all it takes on defense is one guy to be
out of position, and now you've got a big run,
and that can be you know, look when perimeter runs
is not just hey, the defensive end. It could be Look,
you have the defensive end slanting inside and you've got
summoning firing outside. The free safety has a force defend

(19:49):
or you know what, you're bringing a corner blitz. He's
the force defender and now they get outside of that.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
What do you mean by force defender for fans that
don't know the term.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
So on defense, every defense has a force defender, which
is they're responsible to set the edge. And sometimes it
can be a defensive end. And if he is the
outside guy, it's his job. Then never let anything outside
of him. He's the force defender. He's going to force
everything inside. So you are the one that sets the
edge and nothing to get outside of it. Well, if
you're on a stunt, if you bring the defensive end in,

(20:17):
you have to have somebody else replace him as the
force defender. Now it can be if you stunt that
defensive end, it could be the linebacker that is stacked
behind him. Now he's the force defender scraping over the top. Well,
if he gets blocked, if the defensive end slants in
and the tight end goes up and blocks him.

Speaker 5 (20:31):
You lost your force defender. So now you're to the perimeter.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
And that's what happened on the play with Mussoo. He
got blocked and sucked in.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
So now he's got to come up and attack the
outside shoulder of that blocker, and he's the force defender.
It can sometimes be a safety, so sometimes you can
bring the strong safety down if it's to the tight
end side. Now the defensive ends slanting inside. Strong safety
is coming up off the edge. He's the force defender
if he gets if he gets his nose inside and boom,
they bounce it. Now you're to the house. You're up

(20:59):
to the silence. So that as an offensive player, we
always want to try to pin that force defender in
or you kick him out and now you double team
and wall that the other guys in and you kick
that force finder out and now you created a big seam.
So that's another way to kind of attack that. It
could be a corner if you're bringing a corner blitz
or a nickel a nickel blitz if you've got twins right,
if you've got a slot receiver to the right and

(21:20):
bring you're blitzing that nickel defender. Now he's the force
defender on the outside and a lot of times the
number one blitz for a long time on third down
in sub defenses, tackle here and here, nickel blitzer out here.
You bring the tackle straight up the field, the defensive
end loops underneath, and the nickel defender comes outside, so

(21:41):
that outside defenders forcing every the inside and you've got
the defensive end looping up, coming right down the barrel
of the quarterback. That's a staple blitz in sub defense,
which is a nickel defense. Those are things that now
you can get out of whack because guys that maybe
are are the force defender are not used to being
that force defender. So it comes down to execution. But

(22:02):
you know, I don't look at this like it's not
something that's correctable.

Speaker 7 (22:05):
You know.

Speaker 4 (22:05):
Look, the one thing I will say is usually when
you see all these stats and you see a lot
of the big runs, you see a lot of miss tackles.
The giants, they're not really missing tackles, Like if you
look at them, you know, I think PFF has a
grade on all this stuff. They're they're not missing a
lot of tackles right now, It's I think they're top
five in the league right now. As far as least

(22:26):
amount of mistackles, that's something that is kind of peculiar
because usually that goes hand in hand. Hey, look, if
you're leading the league in mistackles, you're gonna have a
lot of big runs. So it's it's really just guys
not executing their position. Now, we've seen Tay Banks multiple
times now. He's supposed to be on a run, a
run breaks out and gets an open field. He's supposed

(22:49):
to protect outside in as a as a corner, and
there's been times where he's kind of gotten inside and
allowed the runner to go outside of them, up the
sideline and giving up what should have been a time
in your game now is a twenty or thirty yard game.
So those are things that I see creeping up.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
But twelven guys who just get blocked like in that
Egle game too many time shown like I stopped the
all twenty two in the middle of it off there
is a hat on a hat everywhere. Yeah, everywhere. No
one's getting off their blocks.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
I think you know the Eagles, Look, they've been one
of the best run blocking offenses for a long time now,
Like they They're phenomenal. Their their guards and their tackles
stick on blocks. They do a really good job getting
movement whenever they're double teaming. But those are you know,
the perimeter runs. You know a lot of times it's

(23:36):
can you can you defeat a tight end block as well.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Giants have tenth fewest miss tackles in the league this year.

Speaker 4 (23:41):
So I mean that kind of goes against what we're
seeing statistically. So they're not it's not poor tackling. I
think it's just out of position. And you know, I
think it's because not everybody is locked in on who
has the C gap, who has the B gap? And
you know, look, I think whenever it comes to defending

(24:03):
the run, you know there's there's some pride that goes
with that, and you know, every every good defense prides
themselves on you're not you're not gonna be able to
run the ball on us.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, absolutely, I'm with you. Now, I did break down
some of the past stuff, which that's always interesting in
terms of coverage breakdown. I give this to you just
want to get your reaction. Giants are second in the
league in terms of the frequency in which they play
cover one about thirty three percent. Only the Browns play more,
which Jim Swartz the way he plays.

Speaker 4 (24:32):
There, which cover one is man coverage with a single
high statement.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Correct, and you can also add sometimes zero.

Speaker 4 (24:37):
I think the Giants lead the league in man coverage
as well, which would.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Second to the Browns. The Browns are first.

Speaker 4 (24:41):
That also goes hand in hand with the big runs.
Explain why so, Now if you're playing man defense all right, now,
all of a sudden, those defenders, when that receiver takes
off right, he's trying to make it look like it's
a pass. Now, as a man defender, your back is
to the ball, so you're if that guy. You know,
if you have two receivers outside and you're man coverage
and they both run outside releasing routes, those defenders have

(25:03):
their back to the ball. So now they can't help
and run support because they don't know it's a run.
They think it's a pass. They're running with the receiver.
So if you're in zone, if you're playing cover two,
those corners are looking at the receiver. They're looking into
the backfield and they're seeing the receiver with their eyes
in the backfield on the quarterbacks, and they see run
a lot quicker, and you know you're playing Cover two
or zone. All of those defenders had their eyes in

(25:25):
the backfield. They're going to react to the run a
lot quicker than they would in man.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Interesting, okay, so that's another factor there. So the Giants
they're they're on they're on twelve or thirteenth in miss tackles,
but again not bad.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
Okay, So you have the man coverage on there. They were,
they were leading the league in man coverage as if
I think two weeks.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
I believe they are second to the Browns. Second, I
believe they are second because they played Cover one thirty
three percent and Cover zero three and a half percent,
So that gives you around thirty seven percent man coverage, right.

Speaker 4 (25:52):
And cover zero Just so you know, cover zero means
no deep safety, no safety. So you're playing man coverage
and most safeties are up at the line within five
yards of the ball.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, by land cover one, you can also have a
robber safety in the middle of the field to you
can have two safetyes.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
See on the snaps, somebody is rotating flying back on
Cover one to pretty deep guy exactly Cover zero. Everybody's
at the line, and you know that means you're bringing
the house.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
So they've really reduced their Cover three rate this year.
Third fewest snaps with Cover three in the league, just
twenty three percent, twenty fifth in Cover two at nine percent,
Tenth most quarters defense it's sixteen percent, which often times
can convert in demand demand the way those matchups kind
of take place. And then Cover six they are at
about four percent. So I looked at like success rate

(26:34):
and EPA and stuff like that, man ver zone sean,
it's kind of the same. EPA in man defense is twelfth,
Zone is thirteenth. Success rate zone is eleventh. Man is
twenty fifth, which is surprised. Usually success rate a man
is better. Here's the one that got me, and I'm
curious to get your take on it. In zone defense,
and again the Giants play a lot of man, so
these numbers will be skewed just based on the percentage

(26:55):
of time you use these coverages. But in terms of
pass plays a lot of both over fifteen yards and
over two twenty yards. The Giants have allowed more big
pass plays in man than any other team in the
National Football League. Now, again, some of that is the
fact that you're playing it more so that's part of it,
but still something that jumped out to me looking at it.
And in zone coverage, they've allowed the fifth fewest plays

(27:18):
of fifteen yards in more and I can't read my
chicken scratch here. I think that is the I might
be the fewest passes of twenty yards or more against zones.
So they've given up far fewer big plays in zone coveragers,
by the way, makes sense the way it's structured, and
they've given up a lot more in man. And that
goes back to their blitz rates. I did their blitz
stuff too. Blitz and non blitz EPA success rate is

(27:40):
almost identical. It doesn't change, so they got a blitz more.
It's not like they've been super successful in blitz and
super successful in coverage. Those numbers are almost identical. And
by the way, their's sack rates versus blitz and non
blitz is also nearly identical, which I thought was interesting.
So I don't see a big thing there. But that
was the one thing that jumped out that me in
terms of the man in zone coverage, a lot more
big plays allowed in man coverage. Once again makes sense

(28:00):
based on how the defenses work.

Speaker 4 (28:02):
Yeah, it does make sense, and I think every quarterback
when they see man coverage, they're taking the deep shot.
So that's kind of like, all right, when you get
those opportunities, you're not going to take the five yard
hitch on a man coverage like you're signaling to go route.
You're trying to take a deep shot and make a
big play. I think the thing that's interesting is once
you get past week four of the season, you're kind

(28:24):
of looking at your own tendencies. You're not waiting for
the bye week to do the self scout. I mean,
you're kind of looking at all, right, where we struggling.
And if you're looking at those numbers and you're saying,
all right, look, we're much better in zone defense and
not giving other big play, let's do that more. Like
you would think that that would be vulcan logic, right, like,
that's let's get away from the man.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
But here's the thing. What if you're in zone defense
more and you have two safeties deep more than that's
certainly your run defense.

Speaker 4 (28:45):
That goes hand in hand. So you're saying, look, we're
trying not to run cover three or Cover two because
we want seven or eight guys in the box. We
don't want the light box because we're trying to stop
the run. So now we are kind of in more
of a man situation because we're trying to load the
box to stop the run. The interesting thing with a
lot of that, too, is I feel like the Giants

(29:05):
this year. I don't have any statusists on this, but
we have been awful at second and third in law, like.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Second and seth long specifically.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
It's like it's a given. It's like it's a given
you can go to the bank on second and fifteen,
Like their giants are giving up a first down.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
How many second and twenties had they given up even
twelve or thirteen yards? Set up a third and media.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
And it's mind bog on third and twelve that a
simple run play all of a sudden, You know, a
guy gets fourteen yards on a run play. When a
team runs the ball on third and twelve, they're conceding
that possession. They're basically saying, we're gonna run the ball,
we don't want anything dumb to happen, and we're fine punting,
and then they get a first down.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
How about the second and twenty sixth last week and
Tank Bigsby runs for twenty.

Speaker 4 (29:44):
Eight Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. It's like that
was a draw. I think, Yeah, it's like second and
twenty six run a draw. Let's get four or five yards,
Maybe we get a penalty, maybe we maybe they gift
us something and he rumbles for twenty eight yards. So
those are the things that really they they are head scratchers.
I have no idea why that's happening, but it seems
like it's happening weekend and week out.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, the Giants on I can give you this number.
I don't have an average yards on second down, but
I can give you second down conversion rate. Giants are
twenty sixth in the league. They've allowed teams to convert
first downs on thirty percent of their second down place.

Speaker 4 (30:23):
That's not good. And third and long, which is what.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Third and long, they've actually been pretty good in third
and third and No, they're the third and long seven plus.
They are seventh and third and ten plus, they're ninth
in third down. Oh, sorry, I'm looking at offense, Sean
they're yes, correct, I got their defense.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
Sorry, right, we got a lot of math here, numbers.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Here we go. So on defense, I can look this
up very quickly. Third and long on defense seven more yards.
They're ninth third and ten plus they are also ninth
second down conversion. Oh it's even worse. They're next to last.
Thirty nine percent conversion rate allowed on second down this
year for the Giants. So odd.

Speaker 4 (31:01):
So I mean, here, you've got a great pass where
USh first down, you get a sack, You've got them
right where you want them second and sixteen, and then
you let them off the hook like that. That that
is deflating. And you know, look how many times have
you seen it? Like all right, hey, second in sixteen
and all of a sudden, you know, now the defense
back out there, and you know, all of a sudden
they get another fresh set of downs, so you're you're
not playing with a fresh defense, and then you give

(31:22):
up a big run. So those all go hand in
hand there. It's kind of mind boggling when you think
about that second and long like why is that happening?
I think if I was doing a self scout, I
would go look at all those seconds along and say,
what what were we in?

Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yeah? I think at the good point where we.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
In zone on that where we in man, you know,
do we need to bring more pressure? The one thing
that the Giants I feel like have not had to
do is you know, you look around the league and
teams that are struggling to get to the quarterback now
all of a sudden they get blitz happy because that's
the only way they can get pressure on a quarterback.
The Giants have been getting pressure with their front four,
and they've been manufacturing pressure with the defensive line. They

(31:58):
have not had to blitz a lot to get pressure
on the quarterback. So you would think that they would
be better in those categories when you were comparing the
blitz versus non blitz thing.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, that obviously thought i'd see more of a difference
in the blitzer's non blitz. I didn't. Here's an interesting one. So,
despite the fact the Giants are next to last in
second down conversion rate again it's the thirty nine percent,
the Giants are ninth best in the league at average
yards to go on second down, an average of eight
yards to go on second down for the Giants, which
is again the ninth best in the National Football League.

(32:33):
So you're right, it's second and longs that they're allowing
a lot of these conversions on. So I think that
I think that is a good self scout, go see
what you're in on those second longs and see what
the problem is.

Speaker 4 (32:40):
Yeah, yeah, let's change it. I mean, whatever we're doing,
do the opposite like something else. That's no brainer right there.
But like the Eagles game, I think the Eagles were
like two for eleven on third down.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
And there were one for nine two weeks before that.
By the way.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
Yeah, so I mean third down you're looking at statistically,
you look at that and it's like, all right, something's
not adding up. We're doing great on third But the
reason why they're so good on third down is because
they're they're awful on second down, and so they're getting
they're giving up a lot of first downs on second down,
which is maybe minimizing some of the third down reps.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Yeah, all right, a lot of a lot of math, well,
a lot of man but a lot of numbers though,
But I thought, I look at the numbers. I want
to get your breakdown from an next as an O standpoint,
I think I think we hit on a couple of
things there that are good.

Speaker 4 (33:21):
What's going on with the I mean, are people are
people frustrated with the defense? What has been the vie
the last couple of days.

Speaker 5 (33:28):
Yes, Are they are? Are they yes?

Speaker 4 (33:31):
Pinning it on a certain player or players or well,
the fans always wanted to go after the coach, right,
that's low hanging fruit.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yes, because they feel like if if you can just
change that one guy, right, it's going to fix everything,
which was rarely, if ever, the case.

Speaker 4 (33:46):
It doesn't really happen that way. It's just they just
want I just want flesh, like I just I just
want I want a head to roll.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
And again that's not to say that there's not plenty
of blame to go around here. You know, you want
to make the argument that the the number of talented
players on this team, you haven't seen the elevation you're
looking for. I get that. I understand that.

Speaker 4 (34:05):
It's the same coach that was coaching the Giants when
they slob or knocked the Eagles on Thursday n Football, Right,
And so it's like that that week, it was like, man,
the defense looks great, a great job, great job by everybody.
Everybody's you know, patting each other on the back. And
then the next week, you know, get him out of.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
And again you look at the pressure, You look at
the pressure and sack rates. They're twenty second in sacks
per past the tenth, which you think this group should
be better than that given the talent. Right. They're twenty
first in pressure rate, which again it's a number you
think they should be better at given the talent on
this team. One number that I like to see go
up a little bit. They're thirtieth in the league in
stunt rate in the percent of the time you use

(34:41):
twist and stunts, right, only in eighteen and a half percent.
I feel like they do use a lot of twist
and stunts when they get leads, right and on third
and long. Maybe you try to mix that in a
little bit more on earlier downs and so things like that.

Speaker 4 (34:52):
Let me just throw that stat right there, the stunt rate,
the fact that it's so high.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Also it's low, it's learned lowest.

Speaker 4 (34:59):
Okay, yes, yeah, but so they're not they don't need
the stunts to create pressure.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
In theory, yes, gotcha?

Speaker 4 (35:04):
Okay. Yeah. I feel like whenever you get a team
that stunts a lot, and you can kind of catch
them in some runs because now all of a sudden,
they've got a guy that you know, you're running a
twist and you pin them inside. Now you can end
up giving up ay.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
And maybe that's why they don't want to stunt a
lot is there, afraid that could add to their issues.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
They don't want to open up. They don't want to
open up any seams. So, as an offensive lineman, anytime,
like all right, we go to the next week, Hey,
we're coming on Wednesday, we start looking at all right,
who are we playing? You're scouting? You know, usually I
would start taking a peek at them on Tuesday, just
kind of looking at on a macro level, like what
what kind of defense are we facing? Is it a
three four? Is it a four to three? Is it

(35:42):
a hybrid? You know, start looking at some of their
first and second down defenses, and then as the week
progresses you get into the third down blitz package all that.
But when you're scouting the Giants and you're looking as
you're in the offensive line meeting room right now the
forty nine ers and you're looking on film with these guys,
you're like, holy s hi t, Like these dudes are studs,

(36:04):
Like we we better bring our lunch bucket. So I
feel like, because the Giants have some guys that are there,
they're a real menace to society like Dexter Lawrence is
a problem. You have to you have to account for him,
and you have to look if he's in there on
third down, like we got to have four hands on him.
We got you could. We're not going to hold up
if we throw the ball forty five times. We're not
going to hold up one on one asking our center

(36:26):
or our guard to be one on one with Dexter Lawrence.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Though he is not one as consistently versus single teams
this year as we have seen in years.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
Well, I think the Dexter's production is was way down,
and I know Carl Carl went to task on Dexter.
I didn't see the whole thing. I'm not sure what
the premise was with all that. But when I turned
on so when I turned on the Eagles film, I
went through and I watched every one of Dexter Lawrence's
pass reps. And he has the center on roller skates
like he is driving him back into the lap of

(36:54):
the quarterback and something. And a lot of times I
say half of his reps, it's a center and a
guard that are on Dexter Lawrence and everybody else is
one on one's that's ideal, that's what you want. So
that's how you get the fact that Brian Burns, cave
On Thibodeaux or Abdull Carter they can get one on
one with the tackle. It's because of Dexter Lawrence. If
you didn't have Dexter, now you would be sliding to Burn.

(37:14):
So you would be sliding to Abdul or cave On.
So those guys, their production is a byproduct of what
Dexter's doing. So you can look at Dexter Lawrence to
be like, man, he's having a down here. Don't have
many sacks? No, you know why because the other guys
are getting all the sacks.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah, I will say that's the one that's kind.

Speaker 4 (37:29):
Of carrying the brunt of all that. And a lot
of times he will beat a guy if he is
one on one, but the other guys are getting there
before he can get there. So he's on his way
to get a sack, and those guys are beating him
to it. So I look at Dexter Lawrence and look,
there's not an offensive lineman in the league right now
that wants to be one on one with him. Maybe
Quentin Nelson would be fine with being on an Island
one on one with Dexter Lawrence. But I see him knocking,

(37:51):
you know. I mean, there was a couple of times
he took Toth the center for the Eagles, and I
mean he just walked them straight back, straight back into
the lap the quarterback one on one. And then other
times when he's doubled, you know, I mean he's just
kind of hogging up the middle a little bit, and
that's kind of what he's asked to do in the scheme.
But everybody else is on one on one protections and
usually when that happens, they're getting pressure.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
I will say this, I don't think last year, the
last two years really there was always I don't know,
four to six plays a game where you just see
Decks do something that's like unbelievable, like he wins quick
throws that out of the way, is in the backfield
like that. I agree, he is still getting what I
will consider slow wins right where he's slowly marching the

(38:35):
guy back to the quarterback. I feel like there were
fewer quick, explosive wins right at the snap where he's
running free at the quarterback than we've seen over the
last couple of years. In pass or situations. So while
the pressures are still there, I don't Again, this is anecdotal.
I have not tracked this. You're not getting quite as
many as the really off the bat quick, you know, right, swim,

(38:59):
push him at whatever, Yeah, straight.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
Weak and have it correct. Yeah, you're not seeing as
much of that. And you know what I would be
curious to see is Dexter playing more snaps and nose
guard versus three technique than he did last year or
the year before that. Two years ago is when he
I think he had double digit sacks. He led the
team in sacks.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
I looked last week. It's about the same as it
was last year.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
Is any of that changed.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
From two years two years ago? On their wink and
again it's a more of an odd man front system.
He was a noseguard, a little bit more on their
wink underwink, But the last two years he has been
that He's still had knows enough, mind you, it's just
a little bit less. He's out three technique, a little
bit more on their bowing or offset from the center
than he was under weight.

Speaker 4 (39:44):
So I mean, I can I can tell just by
watching film what other offenses think of Dexter by how
they're handling it in the protection and they're purposely not
letting their guys be one on one with them. So
when you look at that, it's like, Okay, that's respect
right there, that they're doubling him. And I know as
an office alignement like that, those are always the guys
when you're going up against the defense, who are who

(40:05):
are the guys that we've got to account for? Like
who are we going to attack, all right? And who
we have to account for? And I think Dexter is
one of those guys. You got to account for Burns
one hundred percent. You have to account for You got
to find it. You got to get a chip, you
gotta find a way to slow him down.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Yeah, Burns has gotten chipped a lot this year. Yeah,
a lot this year with tight ends. All Right, we
got a bunch of people on the line. Sorry it
took me so long here, guys, that was a good conversation.
I wanted to get to all of that. I want
to get Shawn's take on it. As we now turn
the page of the forty nine Ers games two, one, nine, three,
I'm gonna try to get to as many calls as
I can. You have folks, I'm a fastest. Do I apologize,
don't only get in as many guys as I can.
Let's go to Jason and new Haven. He'll lead us

(40:40):
off to the Hey, Jason, Hey.

Speaker 7 (40:42):
How you guys doing.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
We're good?

Speaker 7 (40:43):
So Jason, thanks taking my call. Shawn and John, just
real quick, I'll make two quick points and I'll take
it off the here. I know you guys going on
the show yesterday, but there was a talk and you know,
if you were just allowing me real quick I know,
talking about it, probably you guys don't want to hear,
but allow me real quickly about you know, Lance had

(41:04):
Lance and Matt talked about, you know, the officiating. And
while I agree officiating is going to be officiating, human
errors part of sports, here's what I'll say. I never
liked it that idea that officiating doesn't impact the game,
because in my opinion, it did. Now I'm not saying

(41:24):
we would have won the game, but it did. It
did affect.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
But the thing about officiating, it's out of your control.

Speaker 7 (41:33):
I understand that, John, but just just let me finish right.
The push to play the herald, the herald the pitch
push play where he did bumble the ball, you know, ye,
who knows if they get that ball. It's I think
the game was either the tide or we were down
three at that point with no argument, right, so who

(41:56):
knows what happened if they get the ball back? Right?
The bogus offensive PI on slay, which was just such
a bogus call. They both were hand fighting at words
that should have been you know whatever, let them play.
My lot of fall starts. So I'll leave it at that.
I never got into.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
But Jason, Jason hold On. There was also the hold
on the Kobe Dean on the scatterby touchdown catch that
wasn't called when he got tackled from behind by a
Job's offensive line. And then you had the Dart fumble
on the play in the pocket that was turned the
new and could be pass right.

Speaker 7 (42:26):
Then you had the bogus I mean, we go back
and forth. We had the flight, you know, we had
the Wandlle pushing the quote unquote pushing the bad. We
go back and forth. But I'll go on to my
next point, the defense. It's been bad just overall, right,
And I'll take it off here with this as we
I'll say, I'm not going to talk about coaching. Who's
you know, who should heads should roll on this program

(42:49):
because it's not going to go I'll leave that those
kind of conversations with my friends and text messages. But
here's what I'll say. I remember last year because at
the end of the day, you can't fire all eleven
players are you can't cut all eleven players. So here's
what I'll say. I remember John Mayra after last year
stating he didn't like he was going up and down
the field on us. And while the season isn't over right,

(43:12):
he staated that he wanted to feel better going in,
you know, going into this year. He wanted to feel
better about what was going on. We have Dart, we
have Scatterable. You know, that was a rough injury. Hopefully
he heals up and comes back a hundred percent, as
well as neighbors and whoever else is hurt. But while
you can't necessarily always blame the coaches or the players,

(43:34):
everybody takes faull in this and that includes the coaches.
So at the end of the day, I would like
to see how Mara would answer that now the season
is over, I get a fellas. I would like to
see how he would feel now at the end of
the year about our defense, and I'll take it off
the air fellas.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Thank you, thank you, Jason. Well, the first thing before
I give it to shown here there are to your point,
there's nine games to go here, so there's a lot
more to figure out as we go along here.

Speaker 4 (43:56):
Yeah, just to address his first point with the officials, Look,
this is I feel like every year there there's always
like a couple of games that just kind of brings
everything to the service and everybody gets hot and they
get heated. You know. The one thing I will say
is the one thing I always ask for is just
be consistent. And that's the one thing that I think

(44:17):
every player asks for. Be consistent with how you call
things and how you how you call penalties, how you
see different things. There are times where watching a replay
in slow motion and we're like, I don't know, is
it a catch? Is it not a ca it a touchdown?
Is it first?

Speaker 6 (44:35):
Now?

Speaker 4 (44:35):
I don't know. You can have a conversation while you're
watching the slow motion. The referees are doing this in
live speed, so they're the human error and the human
element to this. It's always going to be there and
I think it's it's a part of what makes sports real.
You know, you never like it when the calls go
against you, but you know, I think a tough thing
for an officiating crew is they're they're a team. They're

(44:58):
like an offensive line. So you've got how many official
eight officials on the field. If seven of the officials
are looking at the play and they're like, oh, it's
still going, but one official sees it as it is
stopped and he blows his whistle, they're all on the hook.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
For that's a good point.

Speaker 4 (45:13):
And it could be the guy on the sideline that
he thought the progress had stopped and you know, I
thought the play was over, and so he blows his whistle,
and the guy that's over here is saying, man, he's
still going and the ball was out, Like, I'm not
blowing the whistle because it looks like he's still fighting
for yards. They have different perspective, different angles. They're looking
at it from different angles and different viewpoints. So those

(45:34):
are the things I look at. It's like, okay, if
one official bowls a whistle because he thinks the play
is dead and he's trying to stop somebody from piling
on or getting hurt, you know, I know that's always
a big thing that is at their forefront is blow
the whistle, get the play dead so nobody gets hurt.
Then they all kind of have to fall on that sword.
And then you know, like that's that's part of the
thing that happens during the game, is one official see

(45:57):
something and they have to stick together. They kind of
have to stand the other guy's mistake. The other thing
I will say is every official after every game, they
get graded. So don't think that they're like, oh, yeah,
you know what, I had had a couple of bad calls, Okay,
get them next week. Don't know, they're held accountable. They
are graded on calls that they made erroneous calls. They're
also graded on if they missed calls. So if there's

(46:18):
a penalty on a play that happened that they did
not throw a flag for, they get docked for that
as well. So the officials are aware of this, and
the best officials, the ones that have the best grades
throughout the season, they're the ones that get asked to
officiate the playoffs and then the ultimate goal for these
officials is to get the Super Bowls. That means you're
the best crew throughout the whole season.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
So I don't referee defender they are, they're motivated.

Speaker 4 (46:42):
I mean, look, I'm not I don't feel I'm not
trying to defend them. I'm just saying, you.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Weren't stripes the horizontal I think they aren't vertical stripes. Sorry.

Speaker 4 (46:51):
I think it's a tough job, and I think it's
you know, it's one of it's kind of like being
like a long snapper, right, Like nobody ever talks about
you until you mess up. And that's kind of one
of the one thing, the one thing I will say
about since we're kind of making a joke about the referee,
I have been lobbying for years now to change the
uniforms on the officials.

Speaker 5 (47:12):
Stop with heard this.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
Why the black and white is no longer there is?
They make their uniforms gray because everything is gray every call.
Now in the NFL, it's not black and white. Everything
is great. You know what color the officials were in
the NBA.

Speaker 5 (47:25):
They were gray. All right, it's neutral, all right, you're not.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
You want a metaphorical color for the The black and
white officiating is gone.

Speaker 5 (47:37):
It's with the dinosaurs. It's extinct.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
Everything is gray. Now, so give them gray uniforms.

Speaker 5 (47:42):
Stop with the.

Speaker 4 (47:43):
Black and white. It's it's not accurate.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
And in the other part of Jason's final question, how
you think, mister in terms of and even look talk
in general about this thing, you know, get better and
take it a step.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
I think when you look at the defense as a whole,
you know, look, there there have been some games where
they've been stifling and they have taken over the game.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
That's what's frustrating about this. Like the Charger game, they
were great.

Speaker 5 (48:05):
They're inconsistent.

Speaker 4 (48:05):
That's what's Yeah, you know it's it's like, okay, Chargers game,
they came to life the Thursday night game against the
Old Man they I mean they stuffed them.

Speaker 5 (48:12):
That was the defending Super Bowl champions.

Speaker 4 (48:14):
Saquon Barkley ripped off thirty one yards in the first
two carries of the night, and then they clammed them down.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
They were they were even okay against the Chiefs in
that game. That's what Homes didn't get.

Speaker 4 (48:23):
Well even Week one against Washington. I mean, you know
that that game could have won that game. Look, the
Dallas game fell apart at the end, same thing with
Denver at the end. But going into that Denver fourth quarter.
They hadn't given up a touchdown in five quarters. So
you know, it's very they're they're hell or high water.
You know, it's like outhouse or penthouse with them, right,
And I think that's what's frustrating, and that's what's kind

(48:45):
of tough. But you know, look the offense. Look for
the last couple of years, I mean the previous two seasons,
how many times did we hold the team other team
to fifteen points and still lose? You know, I still
think about the Buffalo game. We go with the Buffalo,
I mean, the defense shut him down, like, and we
still find a way loose. So you know, you kind
of take it all in and kind of look at

(49:05):
it like are we trending in the right direction? Are
we consistent? And if we aren't, why why is that?
Is it player execution or is it the message is
not being delivered and being received in the way that
it should be. Those are all things that you address
at the end of the year. I don't anticipate anything
happening during the season because I do think there's enough

(49:27):
good football. Like if you were going to present evidence
on either side, there is enough evidence for both you know,
conversations and for both accusations.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
We did get some injury news from Tatino that I
miss while we were having our in depth conversation and Salmon.
So these Fann players will not practice today, Jermaine a
luminor Jalen Hyatt, which I believe that I so want
put dentist in parentheses there. It'll be Jalen Hyatt tooth apparently.
Ty Daniel Bellinger, remember he left that game with an injury.

(49:58):
Chauncey Golsten wh missed the game, Quartal flat is in
concussion protocol and our green left to give with the hamstring.
Brian dable On, Javon Holland and Paulson Adebo. They'll be
at practice. We'll see how much they do. So that
can be limited, that can mean on the side with
the trainers, that could mean full. So I have to
wait for the report this st after in the season.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
Yeah, but that goes hand in hand with what we're
just talking about. And you can never use injuries as
an excuse because every team has them. But the Giants
have been hitting hard at corner. I mean, you know
the Black they just signed him, you know, right before
the game, activated him and he ended up playing so
a debo being out there. He's your best man corner.
You're playing a ton of man defense as well and Flat.

(50:35):
You know, they both have been banged up, you know,
Javon Holland not being out there now that changes things.
You've got, you know, different safeties in there. Dame Belton
was thrust into action against Denver, So you know, whenever
you're you're rotating guys like that defensively in the back
end of it, you know, there's a ripple effect there.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Yeah, I'm with you. All right, Let's go to coach
Kevin and Arizona. He wants to talk about cam Scataboo. Coach,
what's going on?

Speaker 6 (50:59):
Yeah, I was just uh, I thought it was ironic. Oh,
by the way, good to see you John and Sean.
I just thought it was really eerie. I just wanted
to share stuff. I just have a quick comment and
then I have two quick questions at the end. I
was one of the one of the broadcasters on the
pregame show had mentioned that he had compared Kim Skataboo

(51:20):
to kind of like a Rocky Bler. I don't know,
I don't forgot which one it was, and mentioned that
but and I thought that was really interesting because you
know the history of Rocky Blyer or he got the
injury and the right ankle blown off with a can
grenade and all this stuff, and how he babbled back
and got back and became a great player. And I
was just I thought it was so ironic that the

(51:43):
day that they mentioned that later on in the game,
the same right ankle happens to Kim scattaboo when they're
making that comparison. And I don't know who made the comment.
I wish I could remember, but I just thought that
was so ironic. The good news is that I take
from it is.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
I would guess been really quick. I would guess that
was Terry Bradshaw because he was he played for the Steelers,
So I'm guessing that that was probably Terry Bradshaw.

Speaker 6 (52:07):
Okay, Okay, I know I heard it before the game.
I just thought, wow, man, is so eerie that that
right ankle again and was shattered. Uh you know, it
wasn't a hand grenade, obviously, but it was the same result,
the compound fracture. But the good news is, and I'm
kind of looking forward to this instance of modern day technology. Uh,
you know, Rocky came back and became a great player

(52:29):
and All Pro Bowl player, and I hope the same
for Cam scatguin. I know all of us steel that way,
because in my heart sank when I saw that. Now,
my two quick questions are are this I noticed after
the game on the presser with the quarterback, dark look
really shaken up. I never seen him like this. Usually

(52:49):
he's very confident and very calm, but he looked rattled.
He was unstable back and forwards and just kind of mumbling,
and he looked really out of it. Now, my question
is do you think the loss of his good friend
is going to mess up the energy or do you
think his he's changed at all? You guys are in
the clubhouse, you know, you see these players. Do you

(53:11):
think what do you think is going to happen with
Dart's attitude, his play without his right hand man? And
then the second question I have is, do you guys
feel do you guys feel that the defense has given
up on the coach? On the defensive coach? Do you

(53:33):
feel based on the comments and the interviews, that he's
lost the defensive players appreciate? Oh and that's my two questions.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Thank you, I would say no to the last one.

Speaker 4 (53:44):
Yeah, I'm not. I don't know where. I'm not sure
where that's coming from. But I haven't heard anything about that. No,
I don't. I don't think that the players are questioning
Shane Bowen. I don't think there's a mutiny. I think
they're upset that they lost, and it sucks they lose
to the Birds. To it, it feels like even even
worse of a lot.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
And I think that was part of the dark post
game presser thing too. Sean, when's the last time you're
thinking Jackson Dort's life He walked out of a football
game having been dominated the way the Eagles dominated the Giants,
given how good Ole Miss.

Speaker 4 (54:13):
Was, I mean more times this year than he's used to.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
But at least all the losses this year have been
close once like this was. Look, the Eagles took it
to the Giants on Sunday, they did, you know, the
Sink game was close that he played in, so it
was just a general overdeal. The Denver game was close,
and then they won the other two.

Speaker 4 (54:30):
So yeah, I feel like Dart his you know, I
think it was a number of things, you know, I
think it was a combination of it. But I think
at first and foremost, it's the fact that they got clover,
like you're saying, it's the fact that we lost a
divisional game on the road and it wasn't competitive like
they had hoped. I think you add to that a

(54:54):
scataboo injury. From a player's standpoint, what you're losing in
the player, the energy, the fire that he brought, the
identity that he brought, the ery, the the positive attitude
that he brought to the offense. All of those things
are a big part of it. And of course, yeah,
when it is one of your good buddies, like it's,
it hurts and it hurts to see him, and it
was a it was a horrific injury, like Jackson Dart's

(55:17):
reaction immediately on the field. I mean he turned around
like you know, I wasn't sure if he was going
to dry heave or not. Like it was grotesque it was,
and all the players immediately signal over for that.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
So I mean, should I saw a live on the
fast motion thing and I was watching with Tik I
go Tiki is his ankle sideways, and it looked the
way they should. I didn't even look at the first
replay they showed because I saw alive and I did
not want to see what it looked like in slow motion.
And obviously the players have a much better view of
it on the field than we do at home.

Speaker 4 (55:41):
It was horrific, you know, like Malie Napors when he
went down, you know, nobody it was okay, it was
a knee injury. He's down like that was a very
somber moment, and everybody, you know, you looked at it
and like, all right, it looks like a knee. It
doesn't look good, but you know, pictures worth a thousand words.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
It reminded me of the Dak Prescott injury that he
suffered against the Giants.

Speaker 5 (55:58):
Yeah, that four years ago.

Speaker 4 (56:00):
Alex Smith, you know, with his leg injury. You know,
you look at something like that. Rich Seubert actually went
through something similar as well, back in two thousand and one.
I think it was. He was playing left guard and
it was actually against the Eagles, and it was right
here at Giant Stadium. He suffered a compound fracture of
his left ankle card off. I mean, the bone was

(56:21):
sticking out of the sock like it was grotesque, and
it was hard, and the hardest thing to do is
to see your brother over there and to see how
bad the injury is, and you don't know what to do,
like you don't want like you you want to be
there for him of support him, but you also like
you've got to keep playing. So you go over there
and you tell him like, hey man, you're gonna be okay,

(56:42):
but you don't really know if he is, like because
it's that horrific and it's that grotesque. So that stuff.
You know, you were bringing up the grenade situation when
you're in war and when you're.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
In I feel if you just use the expression the
grenade situation, the actual story.

Speaker 5 (57:01):
Well, I mean, I think we think we get it.

Speaker 4 (57:03):
But what I'm saying from a reference is when you're look,
when you're serving in the military and you're at war,
like these things happen and it's like, yeah, it's life
for death football you're not you're not kind of thinking
along those terms. So when something like that happens, it
kind of puts a whole another spin on it. And
so I think that that is very tough. And then
it's hard. All right, he goes off and everybody all right, hey,

(57:24):
game on, here we go. Now you got to go
and play. What I did think was interesting was on
the very next play, you know what Jacksonville did. He
went deep that next that very next play, he throws
the bomb to Slayton and to me, you know what,
I was like, good for him, Like he was like,
you know what, I'm gonna go win this game. F that, Like,
my buddy just got carried on a stretcher. I'm going

(57:46):
for the juggler. Like it wasn't like, hey, let's just
run up. He's a conservative play and let's take me gentle.
He was like, no, I'm going for it. And I
love that about him and about the play call. So
I don't know what the play call was in the huddle,
but he took a shot in the very next play
and his thought was we're going after these guys and
I'm going to try to score a touchdown. And it
was a great ball and Slayton should have caught it.
And you know what, he got caught trying to one

(58:06):
hand it because he was fielding off, shielding off the defender.
But if Slaton catches that ball right there, I mean
that was to me, that's what you want from your quarterback.
That's the kind of assassin that you want at that position.
That all right, that sucks. I gotta put that on
mine and I got to go. I'm in full attack
mode right now. And I know they were trying to
win that game regardless, But when your guy goes down

(58:27):
like that, look, it definitely it stings. But I think
it also it makes you value the fact that, look,
you never know when this game is going to be
taken from you to play every single play like it's
your last.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
So Rocky Blier, Vietnam, August twentieth, I'm looking for it.

Speaker 4 (58:43):
Well, he was in the NFL and then he went
and served like good question was he playing, and then
enlisted and then.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
After his rookie year he got drafted into the army
in nineteen sixty eight. So in nineteen sixty nine he
got assigned. He went out there. He was wounded in
the left thigh by an enemy rifle bullet when his
platoon was ambushed in a rice patty. While he was down,
an enemy grenade landed nearby. After bouncing off a fellow soldier,
he tried to leap over it and it exploded, sending

(59:12):
shrapnel into his lower leg. His rifle was severely damaged
in the blast. He was later awarded the Bronze Star
in Purple Heart Wow, and eventually went back played in the
National Football League and had significant HI He had a
thousand yard a year in nineteen seventy six, so it
took him a while. He wasn't right. He didn't actually
rush for any yards. He rushed for seventeen yards in
seventy two, and then he finally started playing again seriously

(59:33):
in seventy three and seventy four. So yeah, I had not. Honestly,
I was not that familiar with that story media.

Speaker 4 (59:39):
I should have been going on to rush for a
thousand yards.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Yeah, rushed for one thousand yards in nineteen seventy six.

Speaker 4 (59:43):
Yeah, wow with the Pittsburgh that's impressive.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
I mean, four time Super Bowl champion.

Speaker 4 (59:47):
Take one in the thigh. And then you also get
a grenade like talk about a bad day.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Yeah, yeah, that is that. That is not what you're
looking for, but.

Speaker 5 (59:54):
Just what a different world like.

Speaker 4 (59:55):
So imagine you play your rookie year in the NFL
and then as you're getting ready for all right, hey
year two, my second, you're in the NFL. Like, now,
next thing, you know you're carrying an M sixteen overseas
and you're fighting for our country.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Which why, by the way, even if you know you're
a pacifist or whatever, you should whenever you meet a
professional soldier here, you should thank them for what they
do because because of our professional military, we don't have
to have the draft right now, and that's thank goodness.

Speaker 4 (01:00:22):
It is very very and we're days away from our
Salute to Service initiative here in the NFL, which I
think is one of the best things that we do
during the season is honor our military.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Absolutely right, all right, we got two more calls I
hour one thirty, but I want to make sure we
get you guys in a real quick Scataboo did have
a surgery, according to reports. I know, Ian Rapaport said
off season program and like in the spring, I don't
know anything. No one has told me anything. I've just
seen injuries like that before. I think, put the target
on training camp and maybe hope he can get on
the field by then. And then the question is, even
when he's healthy, when does the explosive US come back.

(01:00:55):
When does that sort of strength come back to the
leg which will allow him to look like his old self.
Quarantin to reports do the League Neighbors later this week
is going to have surgery on a torn ACL as well,
So I'm sure the Giants will announce that when it
happens again. Ian Rapaport reported that earlier in the week.
So sometimes people do prehab on these serious leg injuries, folks,
to strengthen and stretch it out before they hit the

(01:01:16):
actual operation. And that's apparently again at Quarantine Rappaport's report.
What's going on with me?

Speaker 4 (01:01:21):
Yeah, Cam was I mean Cam was emergency surgery and
he had it down to Philly and it was like look,
and that was because I think that there was it
was some sort of a compound issue. So once it
breaks the skin and then they have to do that
just because you don't want back here to get in there.
For League Neighbors, the ACL injury, one of the reasons
why you put it off is because when you have
the ACL surgery, your leg muscles atrophy so badly because

(01:01:45):
you can't flex them and you can't fire them while
that ligament is healing and kind of grafting into your knee.
So what a lot of guys they found what helps
the recovery process is put you push the surgery back
a few weeks and you train your VMO and your
quad muscles and you really work them and you strengthen
them and get build them up knowing that they're going

(01:02:06):
to atrophy, and that helps with the recovery on the
back end of the surgery.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
All right, I promise I'll get to you, guys. We'll
get to you. Let's go to John and Jacksonville. He's
on next. He's a no offensive line question for Sean John.
What's going on?

Speaker 7 (01:02:17):
Hey, how were you guys?

Speaker 8 (01:02:18):
Great show, by the way, great insight. I really enjoy
it is one of my best shows so far in
this two months. So I have a question on the
first question is offensive line free agency? Which guys that
would you consider bringing him back as a free agents

(01:02:38):
and which guys would you let go?

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Well, there's only two guys that are for agent Sean right,
it's a it's a Luminar and it's Van Roten Right.

Speaker 4 (01:02:46):
What's ms.

Speaker 8 (01:02:47):
Well, there's one more, they're a couple of I think
there are two more the backup center.

Speaker 7 (01:02:51):
I believe.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Yeah, yeah, I just meant the starters and Evan Neil
will be another guy that's a free agent after the year. Look,
I know they like Marcus. I'm not letting Jermaine Iluminor
walk out of this building if I'm making decisions right.
He's been so good at right tackle, Sean. I don't
see how with all the issues his team has had
issues with in terms of finding good offensive lineman, you
have one now, he's a good dude. Keep him in

(01:03:14):
the building. And then Greg man Row and I don't
know how much longer he wants to play. He's on the
wrong side of thirty. That's kind of a Greg Van
Roten deal. If he wants to come back on a
chief contract, I'd be happy.

Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
To bring him back to Yeah, listen, I'm with you.
I don't think we're in the business right now as
the Giants of letting good offens alignment walk out the door.
I think ILLUMINOI has been very steady. There are some
things that I think he can definitely improve on, but
when you look at what he's done since he's been
here with the Giants, he's been very consistent. I do
like Marcus bow I think that they like him as well.

(01:03:44):
What is that?

Speaker 5 (01:03:45):
How does that factor into things?

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
Has to play guard before do you move.

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
Illumin or to guard and you put in bo or
do you put bo in a guard? I think those
are things that they will definitely start to address when
the offseason does arise. But to your point, I think
gdo our GVR was on his couch, you know, last
year before training camp and when they called him and said, hey,
do you want to come back and be our six man?

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
And he's sure?

Speaker 4 (01:04:06):
And then I ended up starting to play in every
single snap last year.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
And I don't think he signed until June this year,
if I'm not mistaken, I think he was a late sun.

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):
Yeah, so look, running's not going nowhere. JMS got another
year on it, so you know, look, I think you
bring back as many guys as you can. Obviously, the
market kind of dictates some of that too, so you know, look,
of course Illumino is a free agent. He's going to
play the year out and then let's see what's out there.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
And Sean, Look, we saw the contract Dan Moore got
last year. We saw the contract that the backup tackle
in San Francisco got, who had never been a starter
over he got like eighteen million dollars. So it might
not be cheap because I can pay for good tackles.

Speaker 4 (01:04:41):
I think the decision well ultimately could end up wrestling
on Jamaine ilumin Or, Like, it's what are your other options?
Like if you if you were going to get a
big contract from another team. I don't know if the
Giants are going to be able to compete with that,
and I don't know if they are going to want to
compete with that, especially if they have Marcus Bow who
would give them a much cheaper option.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
And by the way, if you Jimine Luminor, he's never
gone a big payday before. No, so I think he
can get it. He has to get it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:05):
Yeah, he's got to see what the market's like. And
you know what, if he gets a good offer, you know,
it could be one of those things where he gives
the Giants a chance to match and then they have
to make a decision. But you know, I think the
Giants are gonna they're in that mode right now. We
got to keep drafting young guys. We gotta, we gotta,
we gotta grow guys from within and bring in good
talent to create more competition at all the positions and

(01:05:25):
make us better, not just the starting five, but we
need we need ten solid guys that we can count.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
What's your second question, John.

Speaker 8 (01:05:33):
Well, Well, well, I was part part two or this question,
is you consider taking a higher draft choice.

Speaker 9 (01:05:40):
As an offensive lineman because there's a good offensive lineman
coming out in the first round, and I was considering saying, well,
their first round, they should take an offensive lineman because
they're so good.

Speaker 4 (01:05:52):
Yeah, thank you, John, I hear you on all that.
It's a little premature for me to start looking at
all that stuff. We don't even know where we're picking
in the first run yet. But I think you look
at what's coming out, what what does the draft have
a lot of Who are the best players and where
is the depth? Because you know, every draft is different.
You can get a guy in the second round who

(01:06:15):
really would be a first round or anywhere else, but
because there's so many good players at his position, he
fell of second round.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
So they might be a better guard draft than a
tackle draft.

Speaker 4 (01:06:21):
Yeah. I mean, look, I'm all for drafting offense lineman,
but I think when you look at this offense, like
we need offensive production. Like so if you have a
first round pick and you're going to use it an
offensive player, if I'm if I'm Brian Dable. If I'm
Joe Shane and if I'm Jackson Dart, give me somebody
to throw the ball to give me somebody explosive that
I can put next to neighbors. And now we're now

(01:06:42):
we you know, we're playing with fire.

Speaker 2 (01:06:44):
Hey, look, I'll say this and again we got to
see where they're picking the Shawn's point. They put a
lot of resources into the defense the last few years, Sean,
Now it's time to make things as easy on Dart
as you can. If that means an offensive lineman, great.
If that means a wide receiver, great points. Or how
about ball I'm out one of the first round, one
of the second round. I'm good with that too.

Speaker 4 (01:07:04):
Yeah, they did a good job this year.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
So yeah, I am never going to say not to
draft an offensive lineman. Yeah, I'm always in favor of doing.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
I mean, we used the third overall pick on Carter.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Yes, to your point, mine the fridge money with a
deebo and holland all that stuff. So then the trade
and the resign of Burns. Thibodau is a first round
pick a lot of resources. The Banks first round pick
a lot of resources into the defense. So I think
I think this will again, who knows what players will
be available, but to me, this is going to be
make things better for your second year quarterback type of

(01:07:34):
draft in twenty twenty six. Right, final call, Hi, Charlie,
how are you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
John? Sean? Hey, I just want to say quickly, the
Illumino is not very good run blocking. His PFF grade
is horrible in the forties usually, But that's not why
I called. Look, you went through some stats, John, and
I'm gonna go through them real quick. Thirtieth and total
yards allowed the defense. I'm talking about twenty ninth yards

(01:08:05):
allowed per game, twenty seventh and points allowed per game
twenty fourth and passing yards allowed per game, Charlie, the
rusting yard per game. And you know this is we
got five first round picks, we got two second round
picks and four three round picks and our eleven starters.
It is pathetic. It is pathetic that this deep and

(01:08:27):
I heard all from along we're gonna be a top
ten defense, where we might even be a top five.
Honest to god, this is the most pathetic. We always
people in this building in your building overvalue this roster
all the time. Sean, and you're one of them, You
overvalue this roster. They're not that good, they're bad.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Well, Charlie, Look, Charlie, when we talk about it, we
thought you'd get jumps in their second year from guys
like Phillips and guys like Nuban. I don't think we've
seen the jumps from those two guys we thought we
might say, And I don't think we've gotten necessarily the
level of impact that we thought we might get from
the Deebo Holland addition. So far, they've been solid, but
we haven't gotten you know, takeaways and kind of big
plays in those guys in the secondary. So I think

(01:09:10):
when you look at it, that's that's probably why, right Sean,
when you think about it that way.

Speaker 4 (01:09:15):
There's been a lot of turnover, a lot of turnover
in the secondary. So, you know, I'm not sure what
you're saying when you say we overvalue the roster. There
are a lot of good players on this defense and
we were come there.

Speaker 3 (01:09:27):
How come on those stats I just gave you, we're totally.

Speaker 4 (01:09:30):
Awful because it's there's eleven guys out there. So like
I said before and early in the show, you could
have ten guys doing a great job and one guy
messing up and it messes the whole thing up. So
that that's why it's called the team, and it's this
is not fantasy football, this is this is real football, right,
So there are good players on that defense. There There

(01:09:50):
are players on the Giants defense right now that I
guarantee you the forty nine ers right now when they're
watching film together and they're saying, dude, this guy's a beast,
all right, we got we got to account for him.
Kyle Shanahan right now is drawn up plays to try
to block Brian Burns. He's drawn up plays to try
to protect his quarterback from Dexter Lawrence, and.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
And is not the same guy he was. He's hurt,
but God says, you see him, he's hurt.

Speaker 4 (01:10:14):
He's got four hands on him almost every play.

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
I know that.

Speaker 4 (01:10:18):
So you can't you can't. You can't say that about
him without.

Speaker 3 (01:10:21):
Leaning towards his right side. He was hurt, he was
in pain. Why are they still playing him? Give him
a break, Charlie.

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
He hasn't even hasn't even been limited in practice in
the in in in the regular season. I know everyone
just assumes that he's hurt. He never had surgery on it.
He he's I don't know what to tell you. I mean,
if you want to think that he's hurt, that's fine.
I have not seen any evidence that he is well.

Speaker 3 (01:10:48):
I've put it this way. I never liked the nose
tackle position because those players never have a long career
because they're getting beat up by two guys, big offensive
linemans like you, Sean every freaking week. You can't keep
doing that, and especially when I think, I.

Speaker 4 (01:11:03):
Think Vince Wilfer would argue with that, So with Chris Jenkins,
so would Ted Washington, so with Sean Rodgers.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
I think the.

Speaker 4 (01:11:14):
Listen, you're a title to your opinion, you, Charlie. Not
all opinions smell good career either.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Thank you, Charlie. Appreciate the call, all right. I mean,
I don't know where you want to play Dex and
you're not going to play him over the interior offensive client,
I mean'd what are you going to put an edge
at three hundred and fifty five pounds.

Speaker 4 (01:11:34):
I've seen defensive players lay on the ground thinking and
I thought they were dead, and then two plays later,
on third and to nine, they're getting a sack.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
And I know and I know that's the thing going
on in the end today that Dexter has got to
be hurt. Why are you playing them guys? He's not
limited in practice during the week like he's I see
him in the locker room after practice. There's no like
ice bag on the elbow.

Speaker 4 (01:11:52):
Like all.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
All I can tell you is what I see.

Speaker 4 (01:11:54):
I don't understand that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
That's what I'm seeing.

Speaker 4 (01:11:57):
Well, I don't understand the heat that Dexah Lawrence is
get right now. You know, and listen, if you're going
in the defensive line meeting room right now and you
ask Brian Burns, why are you having such a good year,
He pointed Dexter Lawrence, And I'm hat a good year
because that guy, that guy is doing all the work.
I'm getting one on ones. I've got tackles on an
island because they're trying to block that guy. Same thing

(01:12:20):
with Abdul Carter and Keveon Thibodeau. You turn around the
tape on third down and you look at how many
times our defensive ends are one on one with the tackles.
Why is that happening? That's because Dexter Lawrence is commanding
respect inside. He's got two guys all right, he's got
four hands on him on third and seven, trying to
just keep him from pushing that pocket back so our
quarterback has room to step up. So I don't know

(01:12:42):
what to tell you, Charlie. I mean, you're watching a
different game than I am. Buddy, Sean, this was fun, buddy,
Thanks pal, this was awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
Enjoyr Halloween. Don't don't steal too much of your kids candy.
Now do you actually just overtly steal it or do
you wait for them to go to sleep and then
you take it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:54):
I'm not a huge candy guy, but I will. I
will dabble.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
Do you steal it in front of them and just
like mock them for and steal it or do you
just wait till they go to sleep and then you
I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:13:02):
I don't steal. I don't. I don't steal. The only
thing I'll steal in life is kisses. But I don't
steal candy. I will say, what do you want to
give daddy? So you export I want you to make
the decision.

Speaker 5 (01:13:20):
You what are you willing to give up?

Speaker 4 (01:13:21):
What are you willing to part with? And then you
find out what they don't like, because if they're like, here,
you could take these. I don't want these. Then you
know you don't like that candy you're not, But then
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
To give you.

Speaker 4 (01:13:33):
I could beat it, but if they give it to
me out of the kindness of their heart, I will
accept it, even though I don't like the candy. But
I want to I want to see I want my child.
I want to see them. Are they willing to give
up the candy that I know that they like that
shows how much they love me? Or they the thought
of another person That tells me what kind of core
values they have. Are you willing to part with some

(01:13:54):
of your favorite candy to give it to someone you
care about because you want to see them happy, or
are you in it for yourself? So it's not just candy.
You know when they say trick or treat, sometimes it
is a.

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
Trick that is some harring thing. Wow, we got that,
we got default stuff that is very good. All right,
that's all the top we have for Big Book Kickoff
Live the Official Cadillactic Party by a Cadalet official luxury vehicle.
The Giants were in the hacket Sack Marine Hell podcast
You keep getting better. Check out Johnson the podcast. This week,
folks will have Pop his perspective, Giants Hangout, and Draft

(01:14:26):
Season all up on that. Over the next couple of days, Tony,
Pauline and I on Draft Season we go through the
top performing rookies so far in the twenty twenty five season.
We talk a little bit about Jackson Darn that episode,
so make sure you go check that out and Cam
Scatable for that matter, for showing no. I'm John Schmelck.
We will see you tomorrow. It's Madeline and Cassius on
a special Thursday edition, a Big Blue Kickoff live at
twelve thirty. We'll talk to you then

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