Big Blue Kickoff Live 11/11 | New Interim Head Coach

John Schmeelk and Howard Cross wrap up the game against the Chicago Bears, talk about the Giants coaching change, and take calls from fans.

0:00 - Coaching change

20:30 - Calls

30:00 - More on coaching change

38:10 - Jaxson Dart

47:15 - More calls

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
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Do it because you're on Giants dot com.

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Speaker 1 (00:14):
And the Giants mobile as.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Seventeen what tuck down?

Speaker 3 (00:19):
We all were out taffy.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Part of the Giants Podcast network.

Speaker 4 (00:25):
Dog.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hello everybody, and welcome the Big Blue Kickoff Live presented
by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle the Giants. I am
John Schmelk here with Howard Cross in the Hackensack Murty
Health podcast studio. Keep getting Better, Howard. We set the
schedule up all the way back in September, so I
wish I could say I time this on purpose to
have you on today. Uh, but if for for the
Giant fans that have been unconscious maybe for the past

(00:47):
twenty four hours or so. Business broke around twelve forty
yesterday while we were on the air. The Giants have
a new head coach and Mike caf Guys been named
their interim head coach to decide to part ways with
Brian Dable yesterday. Howard, Paul and I react to this
on the air yesterday. I've kind of had a chance
to gather my thoughts since then you want to hear
my thoughts start. Absolutely, Look, I just think this came

(01:08):
down to over the past three years, since the halfway mark,
even of twenty twenty two. But you can't even throw
that out if you want. Since the start of the
twenty twenty three season, there just haven't been enough wins.

Speaker 5 (01:21):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
They've lost a lot of football games. And I think
the way they lost a number of games this year,
specifically the Dallas game, the Denver game, and then this
game this past week against the Chicago Bears, that they
felt there was just too much losing and there needed
to be a major change in order to try.

Speaker 4 (01:40):
To shake out.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Cure whatever those ills were that kind of kept getting
in the way of the Giants finishing games. Tiki Barber
talks about this a lot when I did the postgame
show with him, and he says, this team has not
learned to win yet. They don't know how to win.
And Brian Day has been here for a while now. Again,
I think Brian Day was a coach, So I've said
that here he's not here. I'm still gonna say I

(02:03):
think Brian Day was a good coach, but they have
not since that twenty twenty two season. This group has
not figured out a way to win close games, close
out games, and consistently play overall good enough football to
sustain victories.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Well, I think that his first year kind of spoiled him.
I think that he got into a lot of one
score games and won, right yeah, And those games came
down to, you know, a bounce here, a bounced there,
a tip ball or whatever it was. It just did
the ball just bounced his way the first year. Then
the next year it was a bunch of one score
games and the ball just didn't bounce the same direction.
And that's kind of what started the downfall from that

(02:41):
moment on. And then you start trying to figure out,
but through the draft and free agents, who can who
can help us get better? Who can get us better?
Who can get us better? And some of the players
just haven't haven't panned out, and some of the you know,
some of the guys have been injured, and and I think,
you know, the injury buggers played the team the entire time.
If it's a ten year, it's four years, and he's

(03:02):
just dealing with it as it comes along. I mean,
if my leak was still healthy, if Scattaboo was still healthy,
maybe they would be able to win more games. But
then you could look at San Francisco and say, well,
their whole team's out right, so you can't you can't
go that route. So yeah, I mean, at some point
you got to make a decision. I was a little
shocked they made a decision in the middle of the year,

(03:23):
but at the same.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Time, only the fourth time in Giants history that's happened.
And I'm sure they didn't want to make the decision either.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
I think they wanted to win. I think I think
the surprising things that you kind of have hope with
the team. You know, you've got so many, so many
games the lead in the last few minutes of the
game and double digit leads, and you're like, this is
going to be the game. They can do it, and
it just never kind of pains out.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
And how That's why this is so frustrating, right because
the two seasons before this, there were a number of
games more than you'll want, that were just playing out
right non competitive. Are you gone to the game and
you're like, they have no chance and they didn't have
any chance to win. The game was over by halftime
and fans were leaving their seats at halftime. They weren't
coming back. We saw that a lot in twenty twenty

(04:07):
three and twenty twenty four. Now, some of that had
to do with the fact the starting quarterback gets start,
you're rolling back up quarterbacks out there, undrafted quarterbacks, whatever.
That's part of that. But this year that has not
been the case.

Speaker 4 (04:19):
Nop.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
They've only been I would say one game non competitive.
I'm not either that non competitive. I don't think they've
been non competitive any games. But the two games where
they were down by three scores in the second half
were San Francisco and Philadelphia. Yes, they were down three
scores in the fourth quarter broad those games. Those are convinced,
I'll call them convincing losses. Okay, every other game, and

(04:41):
I'll even include the Commander's game in Week one is
if the offensive line was playing like it was two
weeks later in Week one, I think they were going
to be in that Commander's games. The offensive line just
fell apart in that game. They were not ready to go.
Not again, you could blame it on the coaching if
you want, you can whatever, but they've been in all
these games the team is clearly better. You see some
of the guys unforcedate something are hurt now that you

(05:02):
think can be the cornerstone of this offense moving forward.
The neighbors in Scatterboom Dart. But they just again going
back to what Tiki said to me, they have not
figured out how to win football games.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
How to make that one play in the game that
that that closes it. And it's been so close every time,
and the young you look at this game. If Dart
gets out, gets out, gets the first down and then slides,
he doesn't get thinged up. You know, he's a great kid,
and he if he does, if he just slides right there,

(05:34):
no concussion.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
And in fact, Howard I would even say, if he
doesn't fumble the ball, no concussion is the reason he
gets a concussion. The ball pops up, he's kind of
reaching for it, and then he falls down and he
whacks his head. Listen, assuming that's the playout.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
That would be great to say, but the guy hitting
you on your elbow right there, coming from your mind side,
you probably go fumble it.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
No, no, no, no, no, one hundred percent correct. And then
by the way, Wander Robinson should have been blocking that guy.
For some reason, he ran a route on that play
instead of blocking on the run play. So maybe if
he's blocking that cornerback, that doesn't necessarily happen.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
It either way, get down as soon as you get
the first down yard and I know that he just
ran one end, ran along one end, so it was
kind of he had the juices flowing and he was
filling good. But you gotta get down to protect yourself
in some of those cases. And he's gonna learn that.
He's gonna look back at that and see, darn it.
I could have got down and save myself.

Speaker 6 (06:23):
Now.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
Unfortunately, it was a second and sex and he did
gain seven yards, so he was trying to get the
first down.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
Cross it.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, if he slides a little bit earlier, he might
be a little bit short. But on a second down
you live with that. And I think that's something six.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
And slide early. Now, look, you get third and one.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
You hope it doesn't come to this, But maybe this
is what he needs to say. All right, you know what,
maybe it's time for me to start sliding a little
bit more.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
Well, he'll, he'll, he'll, he'll figure it out. He did
slide a few times a game.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
He actually slid on his first run.

Speaker 4 (06:51):
That's right. He slid a few times again, Okay, but
so I think that's kind of that. Those are kind
of breaks that kind of you know, and then you
got to come in and you could tell it let
a little air out of the game when it happened,
and you gotta give Also, you gotta give Kill Williams
like his flowers man, the kids. That kid was playing
out of his out of his mind. Guys had him
dead to right.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
His sack avoidance was tremendous.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
They had him all they were wrapping him up and
he was just spinning and they were falling off of
him like you know, like you I don't.

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Know, I'm trying to tackle him high Howard. That drove
me nuts a little bit.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
I mean, all jokes aside, like where are you gonna
hit him?

Speaker 2 (07:26):
Not the shoulder pads.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
You're looking at him, you're trying to slide.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
And you might be trying to go for the ball to.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
It was everything.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Look, eventually, if you were to leave pass Russia, not
every time one of those guys, at some point I
asked to get him down.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
And the third that was amazing to me, Like I said,
but and then you know, and then the plays that
you do stop them, and they stopped him a few times.
There's that illegal contact down fill five yards first down
that seemed to be over and over again.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
The one on Banks I didn't love. I thought the
one on Phillips when he knocked over a dune day
that was the right call, I thought. But so I
thought the two on Banks, the one where he kind
of held the jersey on the pass of the apearance,
I understood that when I thought the the illegal contact
on Banks was was not necessarily the best. But anyway, Look,
that's how I feel about it too. Now Mike Kafka
takes over. I don't think we've had any official announcement

(08:16):
on this. I think people believe he's gonna call plays
as well as be the head coach. He's been the
play caller. I don't think you want to change that necessarily.
We'll see, you'll probably talk to the media. Johnson announced this,
But I assume he's going to have the normal head
coach press conference Wednesday eleven, twelve thirty like we've been doing. Yeah,
in which case we'll find this out. Uh, how do
you think he should handle that? Let me. Let me
start with that, should Mike Kafka still call the plays

(08:36):
even though he's taking on this huge responsibility as head
coach since he's been the guy that's been in Jackson
Dart's headset the whole year.

Speaker 4 (08:43):
Well, here's the thing I think that Kafka, you know,
was he was like candidate to be head coach of
a few teams.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
He's got multiple interviews.

Speaker 4 (08:50):
Yeah, so you know, it's not like he's hasn't been
preparing for this this whole this whole time and understanding
that what he was going to do he probably was
going to if he got it head coaching job unless
he found the ideal offensive coordinator. Uh, he's probably gonna
want them to run his offensive system anyway, right, So
he'd probably be calling the plays or thinking about calling
the plays the entire time. He probably looked at it

(09:13):
from from both standpoints. Can I call the plays and
get what I want in and can I quote unquote
just relinquish that that those those calls to someone and
stand back and try to coach the team. I think
he probably calls the place. I agree with you, and
I think he's going to call the place because that's
where he's like, he feels like he's probably got the
most advantage at this point.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
That's how we can help the team the moment, right.

Speaker 4 (09:33):
And he's like, and he's still going to work with
the defense and special teams and everything else. But I
think he calls the plays and stays and he stays
engaged with would uh would Dart the entire time.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Okay, I agree with you on that.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
That's speculation. That's me speculating and.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Both of us, like I said, that has not been
made official yet. I know there's been some rumblings online
of what's how that's gonna work, But that's just kind
of my thought on that too. I agree. I think
that is hard though. I think that's a big challenge
for him as someone that's taking on this huge responsibility
to also be the guy that's calling the plays. We
saw this happen with the Bears last year when Matt Eberfluss,
who's now the defensive winning for the Cowboy's got fired

(10:10):
from the Bears. They elevated Thomas Brown, who was their
offensive coordinator and play caller, and then he kind of
took over that and some of the offensives. Something that
was going well before he got elevated, fell apart a
little bit after he became head coach because it was
just a little bit too much on his plate to
have to do both things. So we'll see. Just because
it happened with one guy doesn't mean it's gonna happen

(10:30):
with another guy. So we'll see how it rolls out.

Speaker 4 (10:33):
And you look at you look at Dan Campbell, who
just took over to play calling, right, and he says,
and the way Dan explains it was when he took
over to play calling, it's a group effort. It's not
just him calling the plays. He's asking guys, what do
you think about this? What do you guys you think
about that? You know it's third and short? What are
what are some of our best options? He says. I'm
not just calling the plays, hecause I'm trying to trying

(10:54):
to call as many as possible, but at the same time,
I'm trying to put it get as much input from
from the group as we possible we can. So that's
going to be interesting to see if that's going to
be part of it as well.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
All right, now, let's look ahead a little bit here.
Howard Paul and I kind of talked about this a
little bit yesterday and we kind of talked through our
feelings on a little bit. There has to be a
coaching sturf after the year. Right, you can't just say,
Mike Kafick, we're going to keep him, he's our next
head coach because you have to comply with they'm money
ruling all that stuff. So there has to be a
search after the year when the giants prioritize the aspects

(11:26):
of the next head coach that are most important. What
are the things that strike you as the type of
characteristics or past experience or anything like that that you
think that giants should be focused on when they're considering
who their next head coach is.

Speaker 4 (11:39):
They're going to find someone if there's someone out there,
because you got to realize it, and I think fans
realize there's probably more than anybody else. If every year
there's six coaches that turnover or five coaches that turnover,
and it's been happening for the last almost ten years,
how it works, the pool gets really shallow. You start
looking at guys.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Right, yeah, all these like one their can coordinators, like
you like, there's not three or four new of those
guys ever year, and it's hard.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
It's starting to, like I said, the pools starting to
thin out. Some of the coaches are you know, are
have been long in the tooth and they're kind of
disappearing and and a lot of young guys have shown
up and you just got to figure it out from there.
But if I'm looking for a guy, I looking for
a guy that's that's top down, you know, detailed oriented.
Uh And it's not that that that they've all wasn't
but top down detailed oriented, not as not ass as

(12:28):
you would think, not all the way old school, but
a little more old school almost well almost BELICHICKI and
and and and Purcels kind of like, hey, we're going
to do this. It's it's not the friendliest, it's not
the most you know, appealing way to do it, but
it's you know, kind of going back to like almost hey,

(12:49):
this is how I want it done. Do your job
kind of conversation. Not so friendly, Coach Coughlin, like, you
know in the approach you're doing it. And I know
that that young guys don't like that, and I know
the young guys in this generation don't like that.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
But the the best football player, that's.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
Right, you have to be able to you know, to
distinguish this is my job. This guy understands how to
do my job. I'm listening and it's and you know,
you have to be able and be willing to understand
every detail of what's going on when you're doing something
that it can't be as a coach. It's hard to
be leaders of men when the men are making so

(13:27):
much money. But if they want to quote unquote win
as well as make money, then they have to listen.
And it's got to be something they understand from like
I said again top down, from the way you work out,
the way you train, the way you eat, the way
you the way you approach your practice, the way you
study what you're studying. How how detailed you are about
every part of it. I mean, that's that's what it's

(13:49):
got to be. It's got to be somebody who instills
that in them. And it's that's something like I said,
not a lot of guys are attracted to. But if
you want to win, that's how it works, Andy Reids World,
that's how they do it.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
A couple of direct questions before we get to the
calls here. How important is it to you that the
coach the Giants hire has prior not just prior head
coaching experience, but prior success as an NFL head coach.

Speaker 4 (14:14):
Uh, how are you going to get a coach that
has prior success? If he has prior success, he's probably
still going to be coaching for another team.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Well, there are some that aren't. They'm gonna give me
a couple of names.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
You give me a couple of names.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
And Bob pop Wall talked about on a serious show too.
So I'll throw one name at you. A guy that
has a lot of long term success as an NFL
head coach that is not coaching right now. Mike McCarthy.

Speaker 4 (14:36):
Mike McCarthy.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Interesting, that's one name.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
I know one name that fans have been a little
excited about is John Gruden.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
John Cruden. Interesting.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Okay, that's another one. Bill Belichick is another one. Obviously
you mentioned his name. I don't think that's going to happen,
but I'll throw the name out there. Now. These are
guys that are currently coordinators, but they I do have
passed coaching experience, maybe not success, but past coaching experience.
Ben's Joseph, the defensive coordinator for the Broncos, is a

(15:09):
guy all throughout there. Brian Flores is some of the
Giants interviewed in the last cycle. Though that whole lawsuit
thing is going on still, so I don't know if
that's a viable deal. Antonio Pierce, who is the head
coach for the Raiders and as a former a lot
of connections to the Giants. And Steve Spagnol who obviously
was the head coach for the Rams where he had
no success, but certainly it's had a lot of success

(15:29):
as a defensive coordinator, was an inter head coach here
and obviously a defensive coordinator on two different occasions. So
those are the former Those are all that you can
see my list. Those are the guys on my former
head coach list of guys that at least I've thought
about that maybe interesting people might be interested.

Speaker 4 (15:44):
I think that they all have some have a very
interesting thought about it. I think that some of them
had some success. Gruden and McCarthy definitely had some success.
And I think that you know, they're all we're all
waiting to see and you got to wonder, like are
they willing to come in and take on a job.
And I know mcarthury probably would take one right away. Gruden,

(16:07):
I'm not sure about I'm not sure Gruden. People say
he wants to get back into coaching, but there have
been vacancies out there. I don't hear him interviewing that much.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
And of course he had a big lawsuit thing with
the National Football League. You know, it's funny, I could
see him being a college coach.

Speaker 4 (16:22):
I don't think he likes kids that much.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
I think he would be impatient with the youngsters.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
I think that you always saw how he was with
his rookies and stuff. I don't think he has He
doesn't have a lot of patience for it. That's why
I'm surprised Belichick's you know, in college right now. The
other guys, I mean, you know, and again I'm not
picking anybody specifically. I'm just saying in general, like Spags
is great coach, but I think he's a great coordinator.
I don't know if he's a great head coach, and

(16:51):
he didn't prove that anywhere, you know. I know it's
the lawsuit with Flora. Is is going probably the best
guy for the job as Flora, But you how are
you going to get around that lawsuit.

Speaker 6 (17:05):
That?

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Like I said that that was one of the guys
that was in the discussion last time they had a
coaching search. But that's thought, that's the only reason why
I brought him up.

Speaker 4 (17:14):
Probably the best guy. But you can't I understand. Can
you work it out?

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Understand?

Speaker 4 (17:19):
Hey, let me talk to you for a second.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Like again and again. Some of these guys are also
on their contract with other teams, so obviously these conversations
can't take place well after the season, but the teams
at their coordinators can't block them from interviewing.

Speaker 4 (17:32):
Fans gonna be also about, you know, like are they
gonna be looking at college coaches, Like is there a
college coach out there that there would be be the guy?
And I'm like, I don't know, well do you.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
I wanted to give you the four names after college coaches.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
Oh lord, you got college coaches too.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
I have five columns for head coach college.

Speaker 4 (17:49):
Give me a college coach?

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Well, the one that guy that's being chased apparently by
two other SEC schools as well. Lank Kiffen, who was
the head coach before Jackson Dart It'll miss.

Speaker 4 (17:58):
Last year, never even thought about that, Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
And apparently l s U and Florida are also hot.

Speaker 4 (18:05):
And heavy, especially L's year.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
And it's funny, you know you think about it, but
then that gets expensive very quickly because those college programs.

Speaker 4 (18:13):
Will throw I mean, just have money.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Is It's like Brian kelly bio situation right now with
l s U, which is a little bit messy. So yeah,
and that was again just because of the Giants connections
to Notre Dame. I Brian Kelly's name on the list thought,
given he just fell that LSU, I'm not sure.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
That would be where I would not do Brian Kelly.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
I would not either. Again, I'm just available.

Speaker 4 (18:32):
No offensive coach Kelly.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
How about your man Marcus Freeman.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
Oh my man, Marcus Freeman, I know, I know interesting
take you know again? Can he you know, looking at
his record text takes every name to the National Championship
Game does does a great job, but it does in
the last couple of years, had that crazy lost one
to and I L I U N I U or

(18:58):
whatever it was, and then another one like there's two
two random games. You know, you can't judge them on
those games. You'll be judging on his resume overall. But
you know, great guy, good motivator. Got to wonder how plugged.
When I think of college coaches coming up to the
to the NFL, I always wonder who do they know
in the NFL, meaning coach wise, that can support them.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
That's good.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
That's all I ever think about. I don't think about
can he coaches like It's like Saving was in college
doing a great job, was in the NFL. You know,
he coached with Belichick. He left left Belichick, went to
l s U, wound up at Miami and then couldn't
I couldn't really get it together the other guy. Nick say,

(19:44):
if Nick Saban wanted to come here and coach the
coach you need me?

Speaker 2 (19:47):
What you need Howard.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
Support support him for that? Yeah? Nick? Nick would? Nick
Nick understands the program, and he has some contacts with
a lot of former former players that are that are
coaches and all around the league, so he would have
a plug in. He knows a lot of guys that
you know, he worked with when he was in Cleveland
and he was he still keeps close with a lot
of NFL guys. When he's talking about his guys coming

(20:13):
in and how they're doing.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
All right, Howard you ready to take some calls?

Speaker 4 (20:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Two one nine three nine four five one three two
on one nine three nine four five one three. Let's
go to Marcus in California. He will lead us off
to down Big Blue kickoff, Marcus. What's going on?

Speaker 5 (20:27):
Hey, guys, how you doing. I'm the best wrists to
John Marra again, Howard. Thank you for all the times
you've made me cheer over the years and all your
honest takes on the show.

Speaker 7 (20:38):
Man.

Speaker 5 (20:39):
I am really upset about Dave All getting fire, dude,
Like I I just can't. I'm heartbroken. Man, it sucks.
I think I have a toxic relationship with this team,
and I think I'm going to take the rest of
the year off actually and not even go to the
to the Vegas game. Now, but I didn't go to
the Denver game, John, That would have probably would have

(20:59):
dis associated and left everybody.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
You would have had a lot of fun for about
fifty minutes.

Speaker 8 (21:05):
Yeah, you know, you though it.

Speaker 5 (21:06):
It's like like sitting there last week with your team
up ten, up by ten with four minutes to go,
knowing you're going to lose the game. Like that's horrible.

Speaker 7 (21:14):
Man, that is so bad.

Speaker 5 (21:17):
I understand it, I really do, But I think you
got to get rid of everybody, man. I mean, I
don't know. Like at the end of the year, Like
at the end of the day, it falls on Brian
a Ball at the end of the day the losers,
and they're not losers, but the kids that are losing
the games. That's on Joe Sheene. Man. The Saquon thing

(21:37):
was horrible. The run defense got so bad after we
traded Leonard Williams, Like it's just all been bad. And
I don't know, man.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
I don't want to know.

Speaker 5 (21:49):
Seventy three year old coach coming in to Bill Belichick
things that sounds ridiculous. One that's going to be here
for a couple of years. But I mean, I when
it all came down to it, dude, I would like
us to kill for front offices from one of the
two teams, and they did with the assistant GM from
the Eagles. But like, go get Pilfer the forty nine

(22:12):
Ers front office, man, because it doesn't matter who is
on that team they're winning and or the Eagles. You
gotta do it. You got to go and get people
who know how to do this.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Well, look they have they have Marcus real quick and
then you can continue. They have Brandon Brown on staff.
He came alo from that fat And remember Adam Peters,
you said you take a guy out to the forty nine or staff, right,
becase they don't no matter what. Well, Adam Peters left
the forty nine ers went to the commanders. How does
the commander's season going so far this year?

Speaker 5 (22:38):
A lot of injuries, they lost Jay and Daniels Man.
They're old, and they're a lot of injuries.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
You can yah, but why But why are they old? Marcus?

Speaker 5 (22:47):
Oh, well, that's because of poor GM and the poor,
poor roster building.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
And then you got where I was going, Glad Marcus,
you get the show.

Speaker 4 (22:57):
I get that.

Speaker 5 (22:58):
But by guy said, man, I think that I don't
really want a coordinator to be like, oh, we're gonna
try this guy. I don't want like a seventy three
year old Belichick. And I'm absolutely one hundred percent against
Mike McCarthy. Dude, I'm done with Dallas cowboy retreads. And

(23:18):
McCarty's only resume is Aaron Rodgers, and that's it. Without
Aaron Rodgers, McCarthy probably would have been out of the
league a long time ago. That's my opinion. And I
just I hope things get better and I hope I'd
change my mind and actually go to the Vegas game,
but the way things are going right now, I really
don't think I'm going to gorug Is.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
The good news is that if the football doesn't go
well in Vegas, there's a lot of other things to entertain
you and maybe press you forget what happened at the
football game.

Speaker 5 (23:46):
My wife would get the Giants lost. My wife would
be like, we're leaving everything at the hotel and we're
driving home. He's we're not allowed to step but in
a casino or a bar, like my wife would put
her foot down so hard like you would hear it
in New York. But like I said, man, I love

(24:08):
my team. It just sucks so bad. It's it's just horrible, man.
And I think that you gotta fire everybody, dude, like
they even they even said in the last five years,
the Jets have won a half game more than us, dude,
And that is not okay from a Giant fans perspective.

Speaker 7 (24:26):
Being worse than the.

Speaker 5 (24:27):
Jets is not okay in any shape or form. And
if it all falls on Dable, it all falls on
Joe Shane too. And I've never wished for anybody to
get their job fired. And I am very upset that
they fired dab All due because, like Camp's Catibal called
him a texted him at four point thirty in the
morning after he broke his ankle and had surgery. If
these kids don't love Dable then then who does you know?

(24:49):
What I mean? And it's just my opinion. And like
I said, wish now mayor of the best with what
he's going on. Howard, Thank you again, John, thanks for
last maybe, but I think I've done further year.

Speaker 7 (25:01):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
I get it, man, I should read. This was part
of the statement the Giants released yesterday. It's the full
statements on giants dot com, but this is the part
I want to read. This from John Mara. We feel
like Joe's assemble a good young nucleus of talent and
we look forward to its development. Unfortunately, the results over
the past three years have not been what any of
us want. We would take four responsibility for those results
and look forward to the kind of success our fans expect.

(25:26):
These are difficult decisions. This is from mister Tish and
John and I do not take them lightly, but we
feel like this is the right thing to do. With
this time and it gives us the ability to move forward.
Where is it? I'm looking for the part that I
wanted to read that.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Was not it.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Where is it? I did not see that quoting here
that's interesting.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
Where is it?

Speaker 3 (25:47):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, that that Joe Shane will lead the coaching search
after the season. That was part of the statement that
that that did get released. So yes, so just keep
that in mind moving forward. In terms of the McCarthy's thing,
you said he wouldn't have a job in knighte Aaron Rodgers,
I will point out he did win forty nine games
over five seasons with Dallas Cowboys in the regular season.

Speaker 4 (26:10):
It's okay regularly.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
In order to bag the players, you have to be
in the regular season. He had three consecutive twelve win seasons.
When's the last time the Giants had a twelve wood season, right,
So it's funny the way I kind of look at this,
and I'm not again, I'm not advocating with.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
The Giants have won one more, one more playoff game
than the Coup.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
They won one with macarthy. So was one on one, yes, yeah,
dak one one with McCarthy. But I almost look at
this Howard as the situation that the Knicks were in
when they hired Tom Thibodauugh, they were an organization that
had a lot of losing seasons. They were constantly picking
in the top ten. They didn't have a great direction

(26:54):
at that point. They were just trying to really lift
the floor, right and just stop being bad. Really, I mean,
you just try to stop being bad. And Tom Thibodeau,
while maybe not the guy that's gonna lead you to
a championship. And I said this the time, and they
hired him. He's a guy that certainly knows how to

(27:14):
win a lot of games, okay, And he got brought in.
He won a lot of games. He brought him to
a certain point, and the eventually said, look, in order
to get it to the next level, we need to
move on from TIBs, bring in a new guy, and
then we're gonna try to win a championship, right, And
that's what I feel like. Part of this is just
bring in somebody, you know that's gonna build a stable

(27:37):
culture and foundation here that's gonna stop you from being bad. Okay,
all right, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (27:43):
Yeah, Okay, So I get it. I get the whole
coaching thing and got to change coaches, and the cry
from the fans and everything.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Again, I wasn't advocating for five days now that you're looking.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
No, but get I get the whole thing. But it's
gotta be everybody on board. It's like you're on a
sinking ship and everybody's jumping off and everybody's like, oh
my god, we can't make it. We gotta find we
got to find the next guy. So if you're looking
for the next guy, pick somebody that's not in the
same framework as all the guys you've been talking to before,

(28:14):
good hires, great guys, good coordinators, whatever. Pick somebody that's arnery, mean,
and it's going to you know, get guys. So like, okay,
we're going to change the culture. That's going to be
a change of culture. And that's hard to Like I
said again, that's hard to do with in this generation
of players, is to make them, you know, be something
or not. Like when we played back in the day.

(28:35):
And this is not me being unsportsmanlike, but when we
played back in the day, we wanted to knock you
down and knock you out of the game, and it
just that was part of the game. We weren't trying
to hurt you permanently, but we didn't want you to
come back in the game. We read the sky and report,
and you had a bad ankle. Somebody might twist your
foot when they tackled you. It was just part of
the game. Now, when guys hit other guys, they all

(28:57):
kneel and pray. It's just a different in games, so
it's kind of hard to get the same kind of
you know, effect and effort and mentality. And it's not
that they're not tough guys. It's not that they're not
great athletes. They're they're fast, they're big, they're strong, but
the process of playing has changed.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
It's vitamin W right.

Speaker 4 (29:18):
It's vitamin w W means winning.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
It makes, it solves everything. When you start winning some games,
everything seems to fall off. The place you need to
find again a lot of it. Then you know, I'm
always more of a it's a players responsibility than coaching
times of winning games, but you need the guys that
can help.

Speaker 4 (29:38):
It's the gym's and the Joe's. It's usually the gyms
and Joe's. My view of it is this, I think
if when Jackson gets back the last remaining games. I
think the Giants are going to pull off a few wins.
I think they've been close to the whole time. I
think the defense has been close to the whole time.
I think they're gonna pull off a few wins. And
as they pull these wins off, I don't want to

(30:00):
be like, oh, well, you know, they just got to
figure out a way how to close it out, and
they got to start thinking about it as a group
of Okay, we got to close this out and somebody's
got to make that play. So far, it's been you know,
and I can't believe it's got didn't have a sack
in the game. It's been Burns. Burns has been all
over the place. And how much better did they play
once they got got the safety back? They played They

(30:24):
played a lot better up until the last Demons the game.
They played a lot better. They looked a lot better.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Defense was very good in three quarters.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
Yeah, yeah, three and a half quarters. But that is
what it is.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Two one nine three nine four five one three two
a one nine three nine four five one three. Let's
go to Jason and New Avenees up next there.

Speaker 7 (30:42):
Jason, Hey, John Howard, are you guys doing what's very good,
good Man good. I'll make a few points, said the ear. Yeah,
it was. It was actually like you know, I was
rooting for Dable after that first year Coach of the Year.
It seems like a really I don't know him. Maybe
you know you guys run into him, of course more

(31:02):
when you know he was with the Giants, but he
just seemed like a good guy. So it just it
sucks on that part. You know, people losing jobs. You know,
I don't wish that on anybody, but like you guys
have stated, Howard you played in the league, John, you
covered it for years. Unfortunately, pro sports is, you know,
it's bottom line win a loss kind of enterprisement. Either

(31:25):
you win or you're losing. So the you know, unfortunately
the numbers and the win the loss record, you know,
it speaks for itself. I mean, I don't think anybody
can argue that. So of course I wish him the
best and you know, well, you know, I'll move on
to my next point.

Speaker 5 (31:41):
The Okay, so.

Speaker 7 (31:45):
Here's what I want to see with ask how do
I say it?

Speaker 4 (31:53):
So?

Speaker 7 (31:54):
The one issue I had, I don't think we were
buttoned up team this year. Over the last three years
under stable. Here's what I'll here's here's why I say
that after yesterday or after Sunday's game, right, we blew
Sunday was the fourth blown ten point lead we have
going into a fourth quarter.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Now, it was the fourth ten point lead blown. But
the other ten point lead was against the Saints in
the first quarter.

Speaker 7 (32:21):
Okay, all right, I got that wrong, But basically, yes,
that's stuff.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
You aren't the only one, honestly, Jason, I have a
lot of people say that this week that has not
been the case. They had four to ten point leads
that were blown, three in the fourth quarter, but the
one against the Saints was a ten point lead early
in that game. But go ahead, I'm sorry, Okay.

Speaker 5 (32:36):
No.

Speaker 7 (32:37):
We ranked we ranked third and total penalties committed twenty
ninth in the red zone conversion, we tie first in
delay of game penalties seventh and false start second and
DPI and ranked third and total penalty yardage. That to
me speaks to a team that's not buttoned up when

(33:00):
I see those numbers. Yes, of course players are a
part of that equation, but that, to me, that is
that is coaching, that's that's head coaching.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
And unfortunately, Jason, and before this year they actually were
usually pretty high on the penalty board rankings. But yeah,
this weekend this year, it has not been as good.
You're not wrong about that.

Speaker 4 (33:18):
And you have to also remember that every time a
player goes down that the guy comes in after him
changes the dynamics.

Speaker 8 (33:26):
Slightly, right, all right, No, I get that, I get.

Speaker 7 (33:29):
Like I said, I get that. I'm not I'm not.
I'm not excusing the players. The players definitely have something
to do with that. But my my thing with or
the head coach is right when I play, you know,
my thing is this the head coach? Yes, you have to.
I think a lot of people gave Dave Ball credit
and I do as well, with the which this this

(33:51):
rise of Dart and the way he's been playing dark.
I mean, Dave Ball gets a lot of credit. But
coaching at quarterback there's more to head coaching, which I'm
sure he knows that, but it didn't seem like this year.
It's more to it than just getting your rookie quarterback
up to speed. And those are the things that when
I look at coaches, coaches have three things I look for.

(34:15):
Are you building a culture a winning culture? Right? The
only way you could build a culture is by winning.
And as your team buttoned up, do they have identity?
Those are the three things I look for, and the
head coach personally, right, I think. I don't think it
will happen. Like you two gentlemen explained beautifully earlier, I'm
a big floor as guy. I liked him the first

(34:36):
go around before Dable got the job. I understand the
whole litigation thing. I won't even get into that because
I have no idea what's going on with that, so
I'm not even.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Going to get it. We aren't touching that either.

Speaker 7 (34:50):
I'm not even gonna touch it, so you guys won't either. Second,
I know he's on the oldest side, but man, maybe
if he was a few years younger, Belichick would be
at the top of my list. Right because we've seen
it now. I know people say, well, he had Brady,
He had Brady. Every great coach, super Bowl winning coach
had a good quarterback. You might have some one off,

(35:13):
but most great head coaches that one ship's had great quarterbacks.
So I'm not going to take that away from Belichick.
Those are the kind of guys I'm not saying to
have to be those two, those are the kind of
guys I'm looking for a third. I'll get off the
air of Shane. I know he's getting a lot of heat,

(35:34):
you know, the last few years, especially this year. But
here's what I'll say. I'm in agreement with Tomorrow and
keeping shame. Here's why I'll say this before this season.
I'm not saying you two said it, but I've heard
from you know, other people, friends, different podcasts and social
media that this is probably probably one of the better

(35:57):
Giants rosters we had in a few years. Definitely a
better roster now than when Shane took over in my opinion.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
Okay, so was.

Speaker 7 (36:08):
It Shane's issue when we were up nineteen or twenty
to six on Denver where people complaining about the roster,
Then when the offense was going up and down the
field in the first Dallas game, where people complaining about
the roster, Then when we were beating the Bears the
other day with people complaining about the roster. When you

(36:28):
draft a franchise quarterback as as a general manager, you're
gonna get a leash. Has he had some misses? Of course?
Neil Hyatt Okay, whatever, Neil was the top lineman that
year he came out, So I'm not going to kill
Shane for that. But he got you a franchise quarterback
and he got you a number one receiver. Dark Well,

(36:50):
we go down the lift splot. So I think we're
doing a good course. I think this job would be
highly coveted. I think a lot of head coaches are
going to be lining up to try to take an interview.
So I think you guys have taken a call and
I'll get off to here.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Thank you, Thank you. Jason. Look, I do agree with you,
by the way that I think this will be a
coveted job.

Speaker 4 (37:09):
Yeah, when you have a quarterback that's big, a quarterback,
a number one receiver, possibly a running back coming back
at full strength, a very decent defense, they just got
to figure out how to close. You got all the
parts there, You just got to figure out how to
get how to get the ws.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
And I think an ownership group that you know, wants
to be patient, right like Howard, they would like nothing
more than to have a head coach here for ten years.
They could find the right guy. That's what they want.

Speaker 4 (37:34):
Every team wants. Everybody wants their Mike Tomlin to be
be in an organization for twenty years if they can
get him in there. But just it's just hard to
This is very hard to get it done.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
Hundred. All right, let's go back to the phones and
say what's up to Scott New Mexico Online too, Scotty,
what's up my guys.

Speaker 9 (37:52):
As far as Brian Dabel, I want to go replaying
with you, which might be a little controversial. I know
his record was bad, and I was on with you
guys a couple of weeks ago in that, but she
did for a regime changed. Man, Howard, you sort of
agree with showing point some night. But I think one
of the reasons, other than the record that Brian Abo

(38:13):
had to go, we have something to do with Jackson
darting the way he was handling them in the game
that just transpired with I think it was about five
minutes left in the third quarter, and even though he
admits that Jackson didn't seem right, he left him in
the game to play a couple more snaps.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
No no, no, no, Scott, he didn't no no, no, no, Scott.
Time out. Let's let's let let's get the time frame
right here. It was after those two plays that he
realized Jackson wasn't right. It wasn't all Jackson's not right. Oh,
let's put it back out there. Then we'll get Ronnie
Bonds over two plays later. Okay, that's not how it
went down.

Speaker 4 (38:50):
And also you have to realize that the red Hats
are supposed to be watching from from you know, from
heaven to see when guys are hitting their head and
they're supposed to like come out and talk to him
and and pull him to the side.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
And the Giants self reported the injury.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
So the NFL, the NFL is watching the game. They
watch him go down jump, hit his head on the turf,
and they're like, I guess he's okay he got up,
you know, he didn't, and it took him a couple
of seconds.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
To get up, So I think that maybe they thought
he was frustrated over the fumble.

Speaker 4 (39:19):
Not so whichever way, whichever way they look at it,
they didn't really they didn't. They didn't Scott, they didn't
ring the bell to get him out. He goes of
our series happens and then he kind of gets in
the game and then the Giants are like, hey, could
you come here for a second, I mean, look at you.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yes, yeah, I apologize interrupting you. I just want to
make sure that they don't understands understand they didn't they did,
they weren't like Dart. You're not okay, Now go back
out there playing that. That's not how it happened.

Speaker 9 (39:47):
Okay, Well here's my other point. No, i't know who's
the coach of the Giants next year. I'd like to
see Mike couldn't be given a chance, but Jackson guard
right now. I think he's a second leading russaurant on
the team. I think hits three hundred and seventeen yards
something like that, and has the most rushing touchdowns for

(40:08):
seven But according to ESPN, has taken in an average
of thirteen hits per game. That to me is not
sustainable for a quarterback.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
How many hits does the quarterback normally take your game, Scot,
I'm sorry, how many games does your average? How many
hits does your average quarterback take per game?

Speaker 9 (40:28):
I would say it's five or six.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
I think that's definitely not true because you know how
many times they're sacked, which is probably around two or three.
You know how many times they're hit without getting sacked,
which is another two or three, and then you have
how many times they run the ball, so I guarantee
it's close to eight.

Speaker 4 (40:41):
Yeah, quarterback hits are known because they hit.

Speaker 9 (40:45):
These are quarterback hits. He's a guy. According to Espan,
these are plays where he's getting hit.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
No, no, not no, no. I understand, but the run
number doesn't mean anything to me unless it's in context
of what other quarterbacks on the round the league are
getting hit. You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (40:59):
Kill Lliams, guy got hit that many times in the game.
He didn't go down. Sometimes he was getting hit hit Scott.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
My only point, look, Dark takes way too many. He
does not slide. We talked about this a million times.
He needs to protect himself. We agree with you, but
I need to see that number of the cool number
of average hits per game compared to what the other
quarterbacks in the league are getting.

Speaker 9 (41:21):
Okay, so saying that John and I agree with you.
Winning his cures everything. But the real issue is I'd
like to see Jackson Dark's career last. Does it influence
the way Mike Coska is going to use a man
whoever is the coach if Mike Coska is not the
guy next year, and changing some of the stylistic points.

(41:42):
I guess Jackson Dart without impeding his ability to run
the football, because there's been quarterbacks, sure, but in doing that,
and I'm reminded of that quarterback and Washington and they
the Redskins nol On the Commanders, but he was really
a great quarterback and sustain some serious injuries from running
the football, which his name is case me talking about

(42:05):
that Robert the Griffins, Yes, exactly, and his career was shortened,
and I hate to see the same thing happened to
Jackson Dark because he has such great potential. So I'm
sort of, you know, looking to the future and saying,
how will the next coach whoever that should be be
able to sort of uh nick Jackson Dog more effective

(42:29):
without putting him at risk because he really isn't the
same size as Josh Allen, who he's compared to, and
Josh Allen is almost impervious sometimes to getting hit. But
I don't want I don't want to see Jackson Dark's
career shortened because of the way they manage him, and
I don't want to also harness him. Uh So is

(42:53):
there a way to to juxtapose those two points?

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Thank you got a great question.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
So they're they're basically when you talk about quarterbacks that
are running quarterbacks, there are two basic styles of running backs.
There's a Cam Newton, Josh Allen, kind of massive dude
that's running down the field.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
And is kind of strong too.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
So yeah, that guy. And then then there's the other guys.
There's the the McDaniel's there. The guy we just played
is one of those guys you know, kind of that
he can run their shifty Lamar Jackson. And these guys
are Murray Kyler, Murray guys that aren't taking hits. They're
they're flying around everybody. If you're not one of those

(43:32):
two guys, you're getting hit and you're gonna get hit
a lot. The difference is that it's the mentality you
take when you when you break the pocket. Are you
when you're looking like I'm looking at the yard mark
I'm looking at the yard marker. I get to the
yard marker. I got okay, I just passed the yard marker.
Am I still okay? Do I need to get down?
If it's second down and seven and I get six yards,

(43:54):
I can get down.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
That's okay.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
So that's that's gonna be. That's gonnything.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
But it's thing is, that's not a coaching thing.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
But that's about to say. The thing is is that
the player has to understand, right, Okay, if Dark's gonna
play in this form, in this fashion, Dark's going to
give me a bigger man He's gonna have to put.
It's going to have the Phil Simms effect. When Phil
was getting sacked a lot. He was coming here. He's
all thin, and Jackson's not that thin. But by the
time sims career ended, he was jacked. He was a

(44:25):
big dude, and he was in the gym. He was huge,
and he could take on some of that stuff. But
if you don't again, if you don't get your body
ready for it, I mean, and you gotta realize guys
are getting paid the NFL, and if you run a lot.
Daniel Jones will let you know. Daniel ran over a
guy one game, smoked him, got up in the his

(44:46):
you know, kind of came back. It's excited as Daniel
could be. Daniel's never really been like a big yell guy.
And then the next game, like he's running the same
kind of play and they was like, you're not going
down okay, and they lit him up and he was like, okay,
next game. He slid like, okay, sorry, my bad. You

(45:08):
do get paid to hit me. My bad. You'll figure
it out. But now this might be Jackson's wake up call,
which is kind of now.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
I will say this, I do think for the people
that were upset, I forget if it was at the
end of the Niner game or was the end of
the Eagles game where when the game was out of
reach at the end, when they're doing design runs for Dart,
like near the goal line when the game's out of reach,
that I could live without.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
I get it.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
I don't think you need to do that when the
game's over and you're not going to be competitive anymore.
But I think the question I would ask you hard
because I struggle with this honestly, because part of what
makes Dart a good player is his ability to run,
his athleticism. He had a two twenty yard runs in
that game, the twenty four yard touchdown run. So do
you want to take that part of it out, even
though it might mean he gets hit a couple more times?

(45:55):
How do you see that as a player.

Speaker 4 (45:56):
You're not gonna be able to take it out? And
the reason why you can't take it out because it's
part of your offense.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Like, uh, well, I mean, can you take it out
of your offense?

Speaker 4 (46:02):
If you take it out of your offense, then you
just leave him in the backfield and you leave everything
up to the running backs and the whiteouts what you're
short on right now.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
And that's kind of the point I'm making where if
I'm a coach and I'm trying to win games, which
my enable is trying to do what Mike Kafko is
going to do, you're asking them to willingly not do
something that's going to help your offense a lot because
you're afraid of an injury. I just don't think coaches
and players play afreie, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
And what you're also asking is like, Okay, play breaks
down and you're back to drop back to throw throw
the ball, and they're playing, man the man, are you
not going to run at the backs of the guys
that are that are running away?

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Fright? And that's the thing. I think there's gonna be
so many scrambles anyway. I'm not sure the design run
things is.

Speaker 4 (46:42):
Gonna make I think it's not. It's not really doable,
especially for a guys. This athletics. It's very really rarely
will you see a guy not take a chance to
get get extra yards winning cans.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
All right, we got to end the minutes earlier, so
I want to make sure I get through these calls quickly.
Let's go to Tony in Las Vegas. He's up next,
say Tony Vegas.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
All right, good, good, good, enjoy your program. And I
was a long time season ticket holder for forty years.
My first game was in what I think fisty nine
got four war coats and we.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Lost some game, the greatest game ever played.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
No, no, no, no, Anyway, I was going to call
a few weeks ago, but didn't. There was an announcer,
John Marrack was diagnos with can't sern. We won our
first game, so.

Speaker 8 (47:31):
I held off. Okay, and I think the problem that we.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Have firstally is that John Marry is making overall decisions
for the club. I think we need to bring in
a very strong general manager runs the football operation.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Tony Tony Joe Shane is making the decisions.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Well. And I questioned him because he came in and
he didn't renew the contract for Jones, up the option
and he had a great season and his last year
on his rookie contract. I number forty million the bucks
La two years we had in engineer here in Vegas
playing against the Raiders, and you need somebody to shop mine.

(48:18):
We gave up on Jones, we gave up on Bradley.
Got nothing for you, the one of them. And we're
not building up our offensive line to get time to
our running backs and to our quarterback to make a place.
We need a phone line, and we just bring in
a lot of people who don't affect the line give

(48:39):
us coverage that we need out there.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Well, you appreciate it, well totally.

Speaker 4 (48:44):
I will tell you this, as far as offensive line
goes in the last three years, not the kind of
issue it was. It's been dark. It's been been sad.
You know. I feel bad for the quarterback. I feel
bad for the running backs. Saquorn getting out of here
and Daniel getting out of here. They got out the
two good lines having success.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Yeah, they've been The offensive line since Andrew Thomas has
come back, has been very good.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
Now and now Andrew Thomas is out there, you know,
Illuminois out there playing really well. That they have they
have kind of you know, sparked the offensive line. They
can move the ball on the ground, they can move
the ball through the air. The quarterbacks aren't getting hit
every play, so that it's changed a lot. Guys are
able to you know, extra three seconds four seconds before

(49:25):
they have to scramble and get the things that that.
We've played some decent defenses too, So the offensive line
play has picked up tremendously from the last two to
three years.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
And yeah, I don't want to religate history, but I
mean I think.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
The offensive line coach is phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
Yeah, is very good. Is it possible that Joe Shane
has changed his mind that when he got here he
didn't think Daniel Jones was the answer. Then he saw
him playing twenty two and he changed his mind because
the team won a playoff game and got to the playoffs.
I think that's probably what happened. And to jettison your
quarterback after your team wins double digit games and wins
a playoff game, that's a very tough decision to make.

(49:59):
It's a hard decision to make.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
Well. I won't speak for for for for Shane or
day bling back. I don't think that they were in
love with Daniel because of what they saw him do
previous to them getting there.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Well, of course they were, yeah, I would would you
would either.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
They were like, I'm not sure this guy can play.
They didn't. They didn't look at it from the offensive
line standpoint. They were just looking at it from Daniel's standpoint.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
And I get that.

Speaker 4 (50:20):
So then he comes in. They come in and I
they squeak out. I said, the one, the one score wins.
They got by with some of them. The ball bounce
the right way, and all of a sudden, it's his contractor,
So you got what are you going to do? I
guess we'll give them a contract. So but they didn't
give him, and everybody talks about the amount of money.
They didn't give him a lot of money, even even

(50:40):
though it seemed like a lot of money the time.
They didn'tive him a lot of money compared to what guys.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
They were able to get out of it two years.

Speaker 4 (50:46):
Absolutely, they structured it. They structured it, They structured it
properly so that they, hey, if this works out, we
got our guy. If it doesn't work out, we get
out of it. We get to get away from this
in a couple of years.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
And that's what they did, right and again they were
just in a tough spot again, being and that having
that surprisingly really good year that first year, I think
made things more difficult than than helped in terms of
figure out how to move forward in the field.

Speaker 4 (51:08):
And again, and I and I tell people this all
the time, Daniel had had the benefit of having a
good line that year. The line was pretty decent. Even
though he was scrambling and all this stuff he had,
they were able to protect him and get him out
there and he looked he looked like he did his
first year.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
And by the way, they also got a third round COMPIC.

Speaker 5 (51:24):
Is.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
One of the reasons they got the third round COMPIC
is because Sikuon Barkley left the free agency, so he
did if they did in effect get something for him,
if they traded him in that season, they would not
have gotten that third round COMPIC because the McKinney contract
would have been canceled out yensive Sundick charts. So just
keep that in mind too. Let's go to Brian and Alabama.
He's up next day. Brian roll Top, Hey, how y'all
doing good?

Speaker 7 (51:46):
Good?

Speaker 6 (51:46):
Got a quick question for Howard. So, you know, I
watch all these games and uh, you know the defensive
meltdowns if you will, in the in the Three Games
of Note. But like you watch and see it like,
oh no, that's not good. And I'm an optimist. I'm

(52:07):
not one of these thats. Oh I knew we were
gonna lose this second. So my question is, you know,
is that like a cultural mindset that that coaching can change.

Speaker 5 (52:21):
Is it a player thing?

Speaker 6 (52:22):
It seems like some of these defensive players Banks Nubin,
Phillips have good first years and then you know, it
seems like they've taken steps back. So do you think
the cultural thing or a player thing? Do you think
the coach just something as easy as cop could get

(52:43):
in there? Can we start getting a winning finishing mindset?
Do we have the players to do that?

Speaker 4 (52:50):
I think we do have the players to do that.
I think that, like again, they have to be is
them making the place? Like if you get up and
you get a sack, you can't have a guy grabbing
in the back end of the secondary. You just can't.
You can't. You gotta you got to lock your guy down.
But desperation and timing the clock kind of runs in
your head. If you're one second, two second, three seconds,

(53:13):
you reach out to grab the guy. That can't be
your first instinct. You've got to like keep you know,
keep your eye on them and what we call locking
them down. But if you can get out there and
do that and they get the sack, you went. We've
won three or four more games. But almost every time
that we've got the sack, somebody's grabbed a jersey, somebody's
grabbed something, and it gets called and the officials have

(53:36):
been you know, I think fair for for the most part,
they make back calls for both teams. It's not just
our team, and you get to watch it and you're like,
I've seen calls from I'm like, man, we really held
that guy right there, and it's a touchdown.

Speaker 7 (53:50):
You know.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
It was a play in the Eaeles game where the
Nikobe Dean breaks through. You got literally tackled from behind.
I think that was the scatterble wheel route down the sidelines,
right and they didn't call hold on that.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
It goes both ways. But I think as far as
the end of the game goes, I think that it's
gonna be. I think that we have the players to
finish games, and I think they're close. I don't know
how they're gonna make that switch. Maybe the coach is
gonna have to, like, hey, keep sending pressure the guys
when it gets late in games and you're tired. You
got to stay within your within your lanes and understand

(54:21):
what you have to do. Even when you get tired.
You got to be even smarter and stronger and keep
going at it. But if you give up the outside
or you get frustrated, you're frustrated that you're not getting
the sacks, do you take the inside moves it out,
You give up all that room, and it's gonna happen.
The guy's gonna gonna break contain the quarter a couple

(54:41):
of ks before that, and you can't do it. You
gotta stay with your You gotta stay in your lane.
You be patient, stay in your lane. Be patient. You
can you can. You can be you know, fanatically going
crazy and be patient at the same time because you're
staying in your lane and doing your job.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
All right, Things up with David and North Carolina. David,
what's going on, gentlemen?

Speaker 8 (55:03):
I was gonna just listen to the show Off era.
I know we're trying to finish up here, but I'm
just about lost it with poor Scott in New Mexico.
I knew he's a regular and he's a caller. But listen,
it's no disrespect. But if you played football at any
at any level, and you sure can he do a

(55:24):
better job of getting down and sliding yet. But I'm
telling you right now, like this dream of having a
quarterback for ten or fifteen years, I mean it's like
putting a toy on the shelf and getting it graded
and telling a five year old he can't touch it,
Like it's not realistic.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Like that, You really like that analogy, David, That was
pretty good.

Speaker 8 (55:43):
Jackson dark is who he is because he plays that way.
People fellow teammates love Daniel Jones because he played that way.
And I know one hundred and ten percent gets used
too much and you know, like hey give it, give it,
your all, given it. But there is something that some
athletes are just naturally gifted and they can do everything well.

(56:04):
And then you get an athlete like a Jackson Dart
who's not not only a great athlete, but he just
is willing to go that extra mile on the football
field to have a disregard to his body. And is
it the most sane thing to do? No, probably not
but you cannot take that out of the player. And
I know Howard knows what I'm talking about, because he

(56:24):
won't be the same player. And so this take Jackson guard.
I hope he'saire for fifteen years, but if he's here
six years or eight years and he plays the way
he's playing, I'll take that too. You have to take
the good with the bad. And unfortunately it's a violence sport,
and you know, injuries happening, and I hope, I hope

(56:44):
he's fine, and hope he doesn't get any more concussions,
and I hope he's able to play the same way
with his hair on fire and be healthy. But that's
just football.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
If you want to listen to your coaching candidates, by
the way.

Speaker 8 (56:55):
You can, Yeah, and I'll eve met with this. I
would have liked to talk on the coach a little
bit more, but I think the Giants. I think the
Giants need someone with head coaching experience. This is a big,
big apple to bite into, no pun intended, and it's

(57:16):
not anybody can do it. And I think you need
to have been a head coach at least at the
collegiate level, preferably the professional level to take this job.
It's just too much, you know. I don't think people
realize until they get here what it all it enttains
and in tails and so that would be my advice
mister Meara and Shane is we need someone in here

(57:37):
that's been a head coach, preferble at the professional level.
You guys have a great Hey.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Appreciate the call me in, Howard be final thoughts here.

Speaker 4 (57:44):
I think that was a great analogy.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
That's a great analogy. I don't get these people that
they like come to like the Antiques Roadshow. They have
these toys like, yeah, this toy my whole life, it's
in condition.

Speaker 4 (57:53):
Yes, come on, I'm going to be thinking about that.
I'm gonna be using that over and over again for that.
That's a great line. I think, Hey, look the Giants.
The Giants are still in a positive way even though
they haven't won any games. I like Jackson Dart. I
think he's you know, I've grown to like him even more.
He's energetic. He's like you said, the guy said, plays

(58:15):
with his hair on fire, makes plays, willing to go
out there and get it la laser everything on the
line for his team and his teammates. And he believes
that they're close. So I'm happy for that. I like
I like the scatter Bill. He's crazy, he's wild. You know,
if he comes back, he comes back healthy, it's going
to be something to behold. I like, you know, Big
Thomas on the edge. You know, he doesn't say much,

(58:36):
very quiet guy out there, but he's he's the anchor
of that offensive line, and guys look up to him
and they know that he's he's out there and defenses
are afraid of him just about there because you see
guys trying to figure out a way to get past him.
And you know, and I do like Neighbors. I think
Neighbors is a good receiver. I think he's been, you know,
playing well. The tight ends for the most part of play,
played pretty well. They you know, Mumanoy has played great

(58:58):
on the offensive line. Defensively, You've got the makings of
a really good pass rush, of a dangerous pass rush,
and you got you got them. You got a linebacker
that slip this incredible Mikes plays all over the field.
You just got to keep building guys. I think the
cornerback situation has been pretty good for the most part.
And though we've got a couple of guys get hurt

(59:19):
here and there and pull it in and out. If
they can just stay healthy for the rest of the season,
everybody what absence of neighbors in scatterab If they can
stay healthy for the rest of the season, they're gonna
surprise some teams. These guys are in it. You can
tell they're in the fight the entire time.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
And don't be surprised. The Packers are not looking on
Monday night. You always get to bounce that first game
with the interim head coach. You to play better than
that first game. So who knows what's gonna.

Speaker 4 (59:43):
Happen on They don't know what that's what to expect,
so it's gonna be interesting, Katy.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Right, that's all the time you have for a big
book kickoff Live. Sorry to cut the last few calls short,
but good stuff. Uh T all party by Cadillite, the
official luxury vehicle the Giants were in the Hacken Sackmhill
podcast and you'll keep getting better. Thanks for being with everybody.
We'll see you next time.