Big Blue Kickoff Live 11/4 | Week 9 Takeaways - Big Blue Kickoff Live | New York Giants

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's time for a big Blue kickoff line.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Nobody can ever tell you that you couldn't.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Do it because you're on Giants dot com.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Do you know what I saw you York Giant Track and.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
The Giants Mobile at.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Seventeen the Finals One time down.

Speaker 4 (00:19):
We all were tafick.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Part of the Giants podcast network.

Speaker 4 (00:23):
Let's go on. Hello everybody, Welcome to Tuesday's Big Blue
Kickoff Line, presented by Cadillac, the official luxury vehicle the
Giants Schmelk Metal with you. My bad for starting late today.
That's on me, a little scheduling disagreement. But I'm here now,
so we're rocking and rolling, uh talking Giants football. If
you will get you on the lines as quickly as
we can at two A one nine, three nine four

(00:44):
five one three Lance, I gave my spiel on the
game yesterday. They don't want to hear from me again,
So give me your thumbnail on the game, what you
thought of it, and just kind of what your being
takeaway was.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Well, I think the thumbnail John revolves around the run defense. Unfortunately,
that's been the big theme over the last few weeks,
and the numbers are not getting any better. To me,
the best way to sum up the rush defensive performance
was first drive of the fourth quarter. Niners go on
a nine play seventy three seventy six yard drive and
eight of those plays were runs, So I mean the

(01:17):
Giants knew what was coming, the majority of them with McCaffrey,
and they got sixty three yards out of those eight
plays on the ground, and of course it finished with
a Brian Robinson Junior touchdown. And it was interesting because
Brian Tables asked a question during yesterday's media session John,
and the question was, why is the big names on
the defensive front? Why is the production based on the

(01:42):
name and the notoriety of those names not transferring over
to the field. And you know, he gave his overall synopsis,
but the reason why is because even with the shortcomings
of the group up front, the secondary and the linebacking corps,
to me is where the problem air is for the
Giants run defense. And that was on full display for

(02:03):
all the wrong reasons against the Niners because Brian Robinson
Junior had that big run for a touchdown and he
bumped right into Deontae Banks and you see secondary players
in linebackers being in position to wrap up guys, John,
or at least in the initial point of contact, and
they're just not bringing them down. So what should be
let's say a five or a six yard run is

(02:24):
instead turning into a ten or eleven yard run. And
that's why you're seeing a lot of these explosive runs
over the course of a contest, whether it's Philadelphia or
of course San Francisco. And until they put a stop
to that, it's gonna be very hard for anything else
to improve. Because there's a reason why mac Jones completed
his first fourteen passes of the game right.

Speaker 4 (02:44):
And none ideal.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
None of them were twenty plus yards down the field.
He wasn't going for the home run, John, he was not.
He was going for the base hit. He was going
for the double. And that was a sound game plan
for the Niners. Why press the envelope if you don't
have to, So until the wh I had stopped the run,
quarterbacks are to get more and more comfortable because they're
going to say, well, if I'm facing third and four

(03:06):
and third and five, I don't need to try to
go deep down the field. I could just take the
intermediate routes. And that's exactly what the Niners were subscribing
to all throughout the game. So, once again going back
to the main thumbnail, before we even delve into some
of the offensive takeaways, it starts and ends with the
inability to stop the run.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
Yeah, and look, I were on Cover three yesterday. My
theme was the Giants better get their guys back than
the secondary. And you know, you look at the amount
of pressure and sacks the Giants put on mac Jones.
Yet on Sunday it was infinitestimal. It was just small.
But my theory, or at least my argument that I
made on Cover three is that wasn't the fault of

(03:47):
the defensive front because Matt Jones had an average time
to throw up two point four eight seconds. Do you
know how hard it is to get home on a
quarterback and under two and a half seconds, it's almost impossible.
You have to have a offensive lineman fall down a
no hit or quick win take your pick right. It's
just very hard to do. And the reason mac Jones

(04:08):
was able to get the ball out so quickly is
guys were open right away. It was back foot hits.
Ball comes out a couple times mac Jones did hold it.
That's when they actually got their sacks, so he was
able to get the ball out very quickly, which did
not allow the defensive front time to actually get home

(04:30):
and get their sacks right and throw. On top of that,
mac Jones only had to throw twenty four passes. He
dropped back twenty seven times in the game. Sure because
they ran the ball so well, and the Niners played
with the lead and they can control the temple at
the game the point I made and then you can
hit to the Giants offense. After this, everyone knew what
the forty Niners were gonna do game plan. While I say,

(04:52):
into this game it was out of Kyle Chanahan's one
on one playbook. We're gonna play Kyle, you stick a lot.
We're gonna play either a full tight end or two
tight ends. We're gonna go big personnel, and the Giants
war in their base defense for a lot of this game.
We're gonna run the ball. We're gonna play action. We're
gonna get the ball off fast because the Niners offensive
line is not great going against a great Giants pass

(05:14):
rush with a very talented pass rush, and then when
they do drop back to pass, the boss will come
out fast and it's gonna be a bunch of crossing routes.
I mean, this is what Kyle Shanhan does every single week.
This is nothing new, this is what he does. And
the Giants defense was not able to take away any
one of those things in that list of things they
were trying to do. And that's how you get to

(05:34):
the point where the Niners scored thirty four points.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, they did not disrupt the flow, but it also
relates to what I was talking about earlier, John that
down in distance on second and third down. The reason
why mac Jones didn't have to hold the football is
because if he only has to throw a pass for
five or six yards, you don't need time for the
other routes to develop down the field. So it worked
in unison from that standpoint. And the one time they

(05:58):
did get to him was when I think they were
trying to maybe create something late in the first half,
and that led to obviously the hit by Brian Burns.
Abdua Carter recovers the ball, and that brings me to
the segue to the offense. I'm not saying that a
game is made or broken on one possession, but the
biggest missed opportunity for the offense was when you get

(06:20):
the ball off of the loan takeaway in the game.
It was a relatively clean game, and you can't even
put three points on the board because Gono wound up
missing on the field goal. It just was a huge
missed opportunity. Now, I'm not one to subscribe to momentum.
Momentum to me is a hypothetical, imaginative term that doesn't

(06:40):
decide football games. But I think just from a pure
confidence standpoint, hey, we're going into the locker room, we
at least have something tangible to walk away with that
would have been beneficial. Also, you had an extremely short
field where you weren't putting the pressure on your offense
to have to go seventy to eighty yards, and that

(07:02):
not happening and not coming to fruition to me, disrupted
at least the flow of the offense. On top of
then you're now asking the defense to bail you out
and that's not gonna happen. When, by the way, the
latest numbers, the Giants are dead last in yardage per
Carrie on the season, right five and a half yards,
and they're giving up one hundred and fifty yards per

(07:23):
game on the ground and that is the second worst
mark in the NFL. So if that doesn't sum things up,
I don't know what.

Speaker 4 (07:30):
Yeah, last thing I'll say, and I said this yesterday
for the folks that weren't listening, I'll just repeat myself.
The Giants scored on their first drive, a ten play
sixty four yard drive for a touchdown. Their next five possessions,
they gained a total of thirty nine yards on too
quick math eighteen plays, a three play drive, a five
play drive, a three play drive, a three play drive,

(07:51):
a four play drive. They gained one first down on
those five drives. And yes, the stat's gonna look okay
because you have those two touchdown drives then the game,
but you're down three scores in the fourth quarter.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
At the philosophy changes for the Niners.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
Everything changes, correct, So yes, does that make you feel
good about Jackson Dart how he played? Look good mate,
some nice rows? Yeah? Absolutely, But in terms of how
the offense played in the game, I can't take that
that too seriously.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
I'm with you.

Speaker 4 (08:14):
Those five drives to close out the first half, that's
where this game was lost to me. If you would
have told me before the game, I said this to
Paul yesterday, Lance, if you'd have told me, and I
thought this was going to be a shootout type of game,
because you know, Kyle Shanahan's an offensive genius, and you know,
the Niners defense was a mess and the Giants secondary
was a mess on defense. So I thought the Niners
were going to score in this game. I thought the

(08:35):
Giants offense would be capable of keeping pace with them
because of all the injuries on the Niners defense too.
And if you would have told me before the game
that the Giants would have seven points at halftime, I
would have told you there's a ninety percent chance to
losing the game. And that's what we were looking at.
And no surprise, the Giants ended up losing the game.

Speaker 2 (08:53):
Well, I want to just peel back your numbers. I
even tweeted this out during the game. So the Giants
opening touchdown drive, they had four first downs. Okay, let's
put the yardage to side.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
I got five here on the play by play, just
for the record.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Okay, when I was counting the play by play, you know,
because I always wonder whether or not that initial one
sometimes is counted if you go play by play, And
I went.

Speaker 4 (09:14):
Through this multiple times. You had zero on these other ones.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
All right, well my math has four. Then on the
next five possessions after that drive they had won and
that was three three and outs, and then the misfield
goes set up by a takeaway. So I mean that
clearly shows you it went complete one eighty. And I
also wonder maybe.

Speaker 4 (09:33):
They count scoring a touchdown as getting a first down.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
That's what I wanted clarification. I wasn't able to get that.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Maybe maybe, because you're right, they gained in the field
of play four four correct, Maybe scoring the touchdown counts
as a first down because it's a first and goal,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (09:50):
Well, no, you know, yeah, it's it's first intended to fifteen.
So if you score a touchdown there, you're gaining the
ten yards for the first down, so that theoretically would
be first down number five. Okay, anyway, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
I mean I guess I was looking at him more
in the middle of the field or in the flow
of the offense. But the bottom line is the numbers
still how true five versus whatnot?

Speaker 4 (10:09):
That's fine.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
I mean, we could talk about technicalities till we're blue
in the face, but the point is the yardage that
you showcase, the first down disparity that I showcase showed
that there was a huge difference in terms of how
they opened up the game versus what they've done after.
And John, you and I have had a lot of
conversations over the years about this. And here you have
a rookie quarterback and most offenses, okay, are scripted the

(10:34):
opening drive, They lay it out, they work on it
in practice, and they work on it a lot correct
and you want to do that even more with a
young quarterback. You want it to be comfortable. What I'm
getting at is and this has been a trend for
multiple games to get start okay talking about this and
got the point is is that they look great coming
out of the gates because I think they go through
it during the week. Dark knows who he wants to

(10:55):
go to. The defenses are still getting a feel for him,
especially unlike the Eagles teams that are being dart right
for the first time in person. And then after that
it's a completely different story. And after that, your players
are not scripted anymore. Okay, So we are seeing a change,
and I think a lot of that has to do
with their good when they're planning what they want to do,

(11:16):
and everything is gone through during the course of the week.

Speaker 4 (11:19):
And they've placed massifically designed for the opponent that you're
getting to all that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
And then after that, now all of a sudden, the
defense is making adjustments. They get a little bit more
comfortable in terms of who Dart is in person, and
the Giants are not showing that same level of being
able to adjust on the fly. And that, to me
is the biggest problematic theme on the offensive side of
the ball versus the run defense on the defensive see
and I.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
Think inebody to run the ball in this game was
stark compared to what they were doing with Skataboo. They
were in a lot of third and lungs. I went
through this a Paul yesterday. After that first drive where
they converted only one third down, by the way, that
drive only one third down, it was a third and
five after that, the Giants on their drives and they
didn't cover any of these start downs by the way,
they had a third and nine, They had a third

(12:08):
and thirteen, they had a third and twelve, and they
had a third and seven. That is not going to
get the job done. So just stuff to talk about.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Well, speaking of the run game, here's the other thing.
And his numbers look much better than they did against Philadelphia.
But I just think the way teams are starting to
approach Dart, they're having a better feel of saying we're
not gonna let him run wild. Now you look at
the numbers. It started with Denver. It started with Denver
eight for fifty six and a touchdown. Seven yards per run.

(12:40):
Once again, you'll take that extremely respectable. But if you
just look at the flow of the game, I think
teams are just having a better feel where they're saying,
we're not gonna let Dark damage the game on the ground.
And I've talked about this for weeks, John, I've said,
if they're going to make an adjustment from that standpoint,
what do the Giants offensively hang their hat on, meaning

(13:02):
what is the identity to maybe throw a curveball to
change the flow of the game. And I think we
have yet to see that.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
Well, I think it was skataboo, right, but now he's
not there. The equation correct exactly right, two one nine
nine four five one three. All right, let's go to
Brandon New Jersey. He will lead us off today, Brandon,
what's going on?

Speaker 3 (13:20):
What's going on?

Speaker 5 (13:21):
Fellas Lanson Jones?

Speaker 4 (13:23):
Hello, we're good.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
What's happening?

Speaker 4 (13:25):
What's talking about?

Speaker 5 (13:26):
I tuned in from my daily dose on noon o'clock. Yeah,
my neon o'clock shot of just bad news and y'all
pulling every bad stat possible. Y'all gotta beat me up
every day. Well, how bad the giants? Tell me every
stat possible? Tell me why did Giants look like they
did on Sunday?

Speaker 6 (13:45):
I saw it.

Speaker 5 (13:45):
We don't need to keep reliving it. But so we're
at that point of the year, it's not even December,
and so I want you guys to remember we can
have fun. We don't have to everything does that. We
don't have to match from this show what the team
actually looks like. So I have one fun thing for
you guys today, because you're gonna have all the diatribes
of how everybody thinks they're going to fix the team, right,

(14:06):
You're gonna deal with that the rest of the year.
This is my diatribe on how I think we should
fix the team.

Speaker 7 (14:11):
Sure, what do you go?

Speaker 5 (14:13):
I think number one, we go ahead and open up
a new position. It's called the coordinator of coordination. There's
a lot of discordination going on on the team, and
the very first person I'd like to hire for this
new position is LT. Team around on the stadium. He
seemed to not be doing much hanging out. We don't
know until we ask him. All I want him to

(14:34):
do just sit in the meetings, sit around. You know,
some people may have to sign a few waivers and
then after that, you know, have LT sit in the meetings,
give his constructive LT criticism. A few waivers may need
to be signed. So and how little straightening, Just a
little bit of straightening. I don't think anybody has held
Mary to save their job by calling.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
LT yet, Well, Brandon, I think. I think if they're
willing to have these team meetings on the ninth Green
in Florida somewhere, I think maybe he'd be okay doing it.
But if it's not on a golf course, not cherrell
T would be willing to do something like that. To
be totally honest with you, yeah, not sure.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
How much of the winter.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
Okay? My answer question to you guys though so so fun,
A little fun if you could for real high rate
coordinator of coordination. Does somebody honorable mention John Gruden. If
I if I could for real make this position, and
mister Gruden wants to coach, and you know a lot
more about coaching than I would, I'm gonna say this
whole coaching step. I'm gonna just say. And I think

(15:38):
if you have him to come sit in fly on
the wall, you don't got to change everything. Everybody does this.
This is the problem.

Speaker 8 (15:44):
John.

Speaker 5 (15:44):
We had a conversation about first time GM first time
head coaches, right long time ago. We had this conversation.
And every time there's gonna be problems, there's gonna be
hicke ups. It's gonna be the first time you learn
in this, first time you did this, first time, you
did that first time, and you got it. There's always
growing pain and all that ever happens is by the
time somebody learned something, they get fired and then the
next person's brand new and they're gonna get fired. And instead,

(16:08):
how about we just get somebody would experience that. Seeing
a few of these ships, think somebody that and they.

Speaker 4 (16:13):
You know what you mean, like Pat hold On Brendan,
You mean like someone like Pat Shermer and Dave Gettlman. No,
but they had they had plenty of experience when they
hired them.

Speaker 5 (16:25):
Well, I mean somebody that was that. My point was
John Bruden. Have John Gruden come in because there seems
to be some disconnect between whether it's the messaging the
coaching is I feel see an experience the other first,
that's the first time for Shane Boone. Uh. It feels
very it feels very immature, not like childish, but like

(16:49):
just we're not very far along in the journey. One
of the things Daniel Jones I listened to that Daniel
Jones said was that when it was like he almost
graduated when he went over mccon was about his preparations,
about what they were looking for about It wasn't just
you know, better coaching. It was like a better and
instead of always blowing up everything. It seems to me

(17:10):
that there's no like, let's just try to fix us
here and for me seriously, coordinator coordination, Yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (17:16):
Mean, appreciate the phone call, Appreciate him.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
I mean you're preaching to the choir. That's the problem
for the National Football League. There is no patience. We
talk about it every year. It's the game of let's
just change for the sake of change. Nobody wants to
stick with an individual and try to play things out.
But in fairness, you know this group he was talking about,
it seems kind of new. They're four years in John,

(17:41):
these staff members, right, and so I don't buy the
fact that there's not enough seasoning on staff.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
And by the way, point, you know, I know he
brought up to Daniel Jones quote about Kevin O'Connell on
the meetings and the vikings. You know we saw that too.
But Brian Dable came from a coach. He was in
meetings with Nick Saban Belichick, Bill Belichick, and then he
had Josh Allen in a room. He was in a
room with Tom Brady. I think he understands the details

(18:09):
of getting ready for a game. And by the way
he has been with Andy Reid, Mike Kafka, you took
the words right himself, like, no, you're fined, You're right,
because I think that's an even bigger point. Who's a
better coach preparing an offense to be ready for a
game than Andy frickin Reid. And that's where Mike Kafka
came from. Now, if you're asking for me, like he
calls a coordinator coordination. My idea is he kind of

(18:31):
wants an idea guy. Is that who he's thinking about,
A guy that brings them like unique ideas? Is that
what he's thinking or like a connector I don't I
don't really understand the job because if you can go
from LT to John Gruden, I don't put those guys
in the same box necessarily, So I'm not sure exactly
what he's looking for.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Well, and also not to take anything away from LT Okay,
he's got a Hall of Fame career, one of the greatest,
but never coached to my knowledge, so you're now expecting
that that's going to translate and he's going to be
able to express that in a way that helped the
current players elevate their game. And there's not necessarily always
a connect, at least from that standpoint. But you see
a lot of individuals on staff John, even if you

(19:08):
peruse NFL rosters, they have consultants who are not truly
a coordinator or a position coach, but some of them
have previous head coaching experience and so forth. So you have,
for example, Mike McCoy who now was the new Tennessee
Titans coach. He was a consultant on staff and he
was promoted. He wasn't a positional coach, he wasn't a coordinator.

(19:28):
So that's a common practice. If Brian Dable said he
wanted somebody to come in and looked from the big
picture perspective, right, give me your take on how practices
are run or what's going on in position meetings. Nothing
is stopping Brian from doing that. Tomorrow, I'll give you
a name.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
How about Antonio Pierce. He was a head coach for
the Raiders experience here and knows the building. I know
he's been going around this offseason, the visiting teams and
stuff like that. You know, he's really good with the players.
He's not afraid to tell players they don't want to
hear some if they don't want to hear, and Lord knows,
he's one of the toughest guys I've ever known in
my life. So there's an idea guy that I would

(20:03):
throw in as someone that can you know, But again,
I don't think that's the problem here. I don't think
that's necessary. He asked me the questions on answering it,
but I don't think that would really do anything. To
be quite honest, with you.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
I don't know how much heavy lifting it's going to do.
Nick Sabin is another guy who he could call in.
I understanding to have a great NFL track record, but
he's still an extremely knowledgeable coach and he was a
great defensive coordinator with Belichick and Cleveland. So there's nothing
wrong with that.

Speaker 4 (20:25):
No Urban Meyer on your list.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
No, I wouldn't necessarily recommend. Urban also doesn't have enough
of a sample size of the NFL to justify that.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
I would have think so, John.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
I don't want to get off topic here, but a
related note where I think sometimes it could just help
the coach. It may not help the team, but it
just gives the coach a fresh taste. Now I call
Columbia football, and you know they're going through their fair
share of ups and downs. Columbia's head coach brought in
the former Wake Forest head coach, who he's very friendly with,
to come in and sit in every single meeting, film session,

(20:55):
see how practice.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
If things can be done differently, just to get it.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
I mean, I got confident in his staff, but he
just sometimes you can't break through the wall, and it
helps to have another voice. So I don't think it's
gonna move mountains to your point. But I understand the
view of maybe just okay, tweak the time you run
the meeting, or you know, give the players off this
time of the day. I don't know, you know, yeah,
I got you little, just give a little nuance to

(21:20):
what's on the table.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
So we have had a couple of trays at the
trade deadline.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
By the way, yet in case the audience didn't catch up. Yes,
I didn't want to interrupt the topic at hand.

Speaker 4 (21:28):
And neither to die, but I figured I'll bring it
up before we get to the next call. Here sure
a name that we had not heard mentioned at all
in trade discussions, because didn't they just pay him to
they did? Ye, Sauce Gardner on his way to the
Indianapolis Colts for two first round picks. I think it's
fair to say the Colts are going for it, just

(21:50):
to Tad. And by the way, that Colts pick is
probably gonna be in the twenties. I don't know where
in the twenties he remember. The Colts have a tough
schedule the rest of the way. I don't know how
many games are gonna winn to lose the rest of
this year, but they don't have to pay sauce Gardener's
signing bonus, which the Jets already paid last year, So
that makes the contract a little bit more palatable. But
Jet's get two first round picks back for sauce Gardner.

(22:10):
If they're doing that, and you know, Aaron Glenn trading
a really good cornerback, I'm sure that's something that is
near and dear to his heart being, considering where he played,
I do wonder. I mean, if if you're can do that,
why wouldn't you trade Breeze Hall? You know what I mean?
If you're training away your players Bristols are fraging after
the year, maybe they're gonna resign them. I don't know,
but that would be the other logical guy that I

(22:30):
would think they might try to move.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Well, you know what happens when you bring in a
new GM and a new head coach, John all bets
are off and anybody who was selected from the previous regime,
and sometimes we've even experienced that here with the Giants.
You never know, nobody should be guaranteed regardless of signing
a contract. So sauce Gardner obviously now goes to a
defense that is loving what the offense is putting up,

(22:53):
and they have a legitimate path to win the AFC South.
So it's a different ballgame for Indy to where they
were in previous years. And when you have a chance
to do some damage because you're not guaranteed to duplicate
that success. I understand why a team like them is saying, hey,
you know, we'll give up two first round picks. I
don't think Sauce has been producing the same way that

(23:15):
we've seen in previous years this season, but sometimes you move,
you change your uniform. Just like Logan Wilson going to
the Cowboys, who had not gotten as much playing time
with since he this year, it could very well flip
the switch in a player it's not notheard of.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
And then Mitchell also going back to the Jets apparently,
and that another players wide receiver. And then because he
had been an active a couple games this year, Mitchell, ye,
they're very deep and wide receiver of the Colts, So
I get it. But another piece heading back to the
Jets and then other trade. I've not seen compensation yet
for this lance. I'm not sure if you have. But
Rashid Shaheed and this is the receiver that was more

(23:51):
likely to get traded from the Saints based on what
I had heard heading to the Seattle Seahawks. For I
have not seen the pick comat.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
I've not seen any pick compensation.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
Imagine reporting it'll be much much, you know, maybe a
fourth round pick, fifth round pick, something like that. I
would think fifth rounder.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Maybe surprised a little bit.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
Now, Cooper cub did get hurt last week, but Tory
Horton has looked very good at the time he has
played this year. But he's a speed guy. He gives
a takes the top off, takes the top off the defense.
So I get it. And look, the Seahawks another team, right,
It's funny the surprise team in the AFC, and I
guess what I would consider the surprise team in the
NFC trying to make two moves to try to sustain
their run here a little bit.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, well, because once again, I just don't think you
could take for granted that this is going to repeat itself.
I mean, that's just a function of the NFL. And
Donald has looked good despite the fact that now he
changed teams and it's a new offensive coordinator, but he
seems to be very comfortable within this scheme with Klink Kubiak,
and then you take it to consideration. The fact that

(24:49):
shied I would argue, gives them maybe another dimension. They
do have Jackson Smith and Jig, but you mentioned Horden,
but he can never have enough. You don't know who's
gonna go down at any given time, and Donald thrived
with the deep ball this season. There was another wide
receiver on the move, Jacoby Meyers went to the Jaguars
earlier today from the Raiders and Jacksonville also a team
that is still very much in the hunt, and they

(25:11):
just put Travis Hunter on injured reserve, so he's gonna
miss at least the next three games. And Brian Thomas
Junior got banged up in their game on Sunday. So
I think the theme is teams that are finding themselves
in the mix if they feel they can acquire a player.
And Myers is on an expiring contract. Logan Wilson has
two years left on his deal sauce we know was

(25:31):
just locked up. I don't know what Rashid Shaheed's contract is.
I thought he recently st.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
Very reasonable three years left minimum this year twenty five,
next year twenty five. The following year twenty and twenty
twenty eight three very reasonable numbers for top corner well.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
But also, John, if I'm giving up two first round picks,
I'm not borrowing the guy for a season. I want
to make sure that I have him under contract, regardless
of what the money is. So all of these trades,
I think they're logical in terms of need, and I
think from a financial perspective they even make more sense
for these teams considering the Colts know that once again,

(26:06):
if their offense could stay afloat, it's not going to
put an immense amount of pressure on their defense until
they get to the playoffs, where obviously the caliber of
the opponent is going to change to the opposite end
of the spec And.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
Just from the Giants' perspective, at two and seven here, folks,
I don't think you're gonna be looking to add anybody.
I don't think that's what you're looking at here. I
could be wrong, and maybe i'll be proven wrong by
by Joe Shane, but i'd be I can't imagine you'd
be trading future picks when you're two and seven for
a player to help you.

Speaker 9 (26:32):
Now.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
I don't think that makes a ton of sense unless
it's a guy, to your point that's signed long term
and it can help you long term. But that would
surprise me.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah, I'm completely with you. We've talked about this in
previous shows. I have said that if you're going to
add a wide receiver, the wide receiver should not be
a rental for a year. He should be somebody that
makes sense moving forward with Molik, Neighbors and Company and
anybody else that you bring on. Based on the math
that you just laid out out, where the giants are,

(27:01):
the struggles they're having on defense, I find it hard
to believe that a one player is going to put
on the cape and make this defense go in the
opposite direction. And I would say the same thing with
respect to a wide receiver. But of course the caveat
is if the wide receiver has a few years left
on his contract, that he's still young. Okay, I'm willing
to listen. Anything outside of that does not make any sense.

Speaker 4 (27:20):
And unfortunately, the price on a guy like that is
going to be very very high.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah, and you got to weigh that as well.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
You get to pick a top forty pick, top forty five, pick,
whatever it might be. Next year based on what the
Giants record is. That's something you got to figure out.
All right, let's go to Marcus in California. Marcus, thanks
for being patient. What's up man?

Speaker 9 (27:36):
Hey, Hi guys doing We're good?

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Do it on, Marcus, what's all your mind?

Speaker 9 (27:39):
Good?

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Uh?

Speaker 9 (27:40):
Now? At first, I just wanted to wish jan Mara
to get well soon. I felt like the drug for
not saying it last week when I called it, I
wish well soon. Thank you. You know, midway of the season,
you know here we are?

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Uh?

Speaker 9 (27:54):
For me, I told myself at the beginning of the
season that if we split the division and win a
couple games outside of that, I felt like we got better.
And that was before the draft and everything. And we
do see it one and a half games outside of
second place, and for me, second place in the division,
I'm okay with it. It means we win some more
games and we split the division. I'm okay with it.

(28:16):
I think the frustration when it comes to like trading
at today at the deadline is that every year we're
here and it's like, well, we should can't trade because
we're two and seven or we're not you know what
I mean? And it gets frustrating year after year when
you see things like you know, like I don't want
Sauce Gardner, I don't want to trade a first round

(28:38):
pick for anything, But we never do things to put
a better product down the field, no matter who's.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
Here, well Marcus, I will say this though, generally, looking
around the league, these trade deadline deals generally do not
have a high workout percentage for the teams making these trades.
Like you look the last year Mike Williams got traded
the trade deadline, of more Cooper got traded a trade deadline,
and a lot of times there's a reason these teams
are willing to move these players because they almost left

(29:05):
in the tank. So I get your frustration, but I
don't think the reason that the reason the Giants are
where they are is not because they're not making trade
deadline moves. Is the point I'm making.

Speaker 9 (29:14):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, I'm and I'm not mad because
I emotionally go back and forth between wanting to and
not to. And I think when I called last week,
I said I was okay, not doing it. It just
I just don't want us to like hurt Dan or
hurt Jackson Dart like we did Eli at the end
of his career and Daniel Jones through his career and
just not like help him like it to me right now,

(29:38):
it seems like more than helping him than any record
or anything. And it does have to be a long
term person. It can't just be like, you know, someone
who's a rental and I agree, and if we don't,
we don't. And then I hope we take a left
tackle or not to like a tackle or a wide
receiver in the draft and just build from there, you know,
because Jackson Dart's going to be our star as long

(30:00):
as he stays helpful. Well, you think we should help him.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
Well, when you say you should help him, what exactly
what position do you feel the Giants should acquire to
help him? Because you were laying out the offensive line,
and I can tell you right now no team is
parting ways with a top left tackle or right tackle
because once they get them, they're going to lock them up.
So that's just not feasible to acquire at the deadline.

Speaker 9 (30:22):
With all offensive line this year, I've said it too.
Are I have zero complaints. They are playing better than
they have in the last ten years, I believe, and
halts off to them, and you know, I know a
lot of that was Cam Scatibo, but they're still playing great.
Not happy with the sack though, but I'll never blame
Andrew Thomas for anything.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
I mean, oh, that was not Andrew Thomas' thinking, Like you.

Speaker 9 (30:45):
Know what, man, it wasn't hurt the trades, like we're
we're here at the drop rate again. You know, that
is the thing that is hurting our offense the most,
is just the drop rate, and it just it's killing us,
and it's it always does, and it's the people dropping
the ball. And I think if we maybe swap one
of them instead of you know, going all in and

(31:07):
saying this person is gonna fix our offense, it would
just be nice to swap some of these people out
and be like, you know, you just got to catch
the ball, like you're there, the ball's there. You just
gotta catching man, And and we win some more of
these games.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
Thank you, man.

Speaker 9 (31:21):
The defense needs to play better, but have a good day.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 9 (31:25):
Hey.

Speaker 4 (31:25):
Look, we said in the offseason last I forget what
show was, but we did the if you could add
one player in one position to the team, where would
you add them? And I think I have had wide
receiver on that show. They don't. They didn't really have
a true number two. And then once Neighbors goes out,
you don't, but you number one. So I thought they
could always use another playmaker. And it became even more
obvious once Slat went out. You know, Neighbors heard of

(31:47):
his knee. Then Slain went out to the Hampshire on
top of that, and I think you can use some
help with that position on the offensive line. It's funny
he says, you got to bring in an offensive tackle.
And here's I think will be an interesting conversation we're
going to have now when we get to the offseason. Lance,
He's right. I think a really underrated reason that Jackson
Dard has had a successful start to his NFL career

(32:08):
is the offensive line has actually protected him pretty well.
And he's had time, he's held the ball a bunch,
but he's gotten protection. If he was trying to play
the way he's playing now behind the Giants offensive line
two years ago, he'd be dead. He'd be like five
feet under the turf and met Life Stadium. He would
be murdered. But he's gotten protection. And you're looking at

(32:31):
this offensive line now. Andrew Thomas has signed long term.
John Runnyan is signed beyond this year. I think only
one year. I think he's on a three year deal
if I remember right. John Michael Schmidz is setting into
the final year of his rookie contract. Greg Van Ruins
a free agent, and a Luminor is a free agent.
So you're going into a period of the next two

(32:53):
years where you're not sure you finally found an offense
of mine that's playing well. But all of a sudden,
these guys are free agents, so you gonta to figure
out if you have to pay them or not. Right, So,
and I've said this before, I'm a big fan of
the guy. I'm a big fan of the player. The

(33:14):
Giants had been dying to find the good right tackle
for a long time. Lance Jermaine Iluminor is a good
right tackle. He needs to be here. He just needs
to be here, and I think you got to bring
him back. I know it'll depend on the price and cost.
I understand all that, and that obviously is the driving
force behind this type of thing, but I would be

(33:35):
hard pressed. As much as I like Marcus Bowen, I
think he has a lot of talent and a lot
of potential to let a guy that you know is
a really good starting right tackle out the building because
you felt Jermaina Lumore not not being there last week.
You felt him not being out there. Ye, Greg Van
Rowden Helmerchol doesn't want to play. He's well over thirty,
He's come back on one year deals. Does he still
want to continue to play? I don't know the answer

(33:56):
to that. And then you got to figure out schmids
and then run you in the the years after that.
But now it gets difficult. So honestly, if I'm in
the draft, you already have Marcus Ball, you have resign
A Luminoia of Andrew Thomas. I'm focused on the interior
offensive line myself. I'm looking at guards and centers given
what you're looking at in terms of just based on

(34:17):
not even quiet of the players, just who's on their
contract and who's not over the next couple of years.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
And I think you get accomplished that through the draft.
I don't necessarily think you got to tap into free
agency money.

Speaker 4 (34:26):
Oh no, No, I'm talking to the draft absolutely for sure.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
So I mean as far as the offensive line, I
think we pretty much explained where they're at wide receiver.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
It was a three year deal, so running is one.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Left signed that in twenty twenty four was when he
signed the extension which I just looked up, or the
Fraser contract.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
What's that extension?

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Yeah, the free agent contract in terms of the bringing
him on from Green Bay. But as far as the
wide receiver is concerned, you know, to the callers last point,
you'll get the two guys that were traded today, and
now I know Rashid Shaheed. It was a fourth and
a sixth round pick. That's the compensation.

Speaker 4 (34:59):
Wh that's good compensation for him.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Jacoby Myers was also a fourth in a sixth, but
Myers is on an expiring contract. That would have not
made sense for the Giants. Wouldn't have made any sense
to give up two picks for a guy that you're
gonna rent for the second half of the season, who
I also don't think is a game changing wide out
that is going to change the trajectory of your offense. Shaheed,
would he have brought something different to the Giants. Yeah,
a guy that could take the top off the ball.

(35:23):
The Giants who have some speedsters. The execution hasn't necessarily
been there, so you could have weighed that. But then again,
you are giving up a fourth in a six for
a player that based on the targets he's gonna get,
you need the routes to develop. He's not an intermediate guy.

Speaker 4 (35:39):
He's very similar to Slayton, correct.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
I mean, I think actually Slayton may offer you a
little bit more, just in terms of the route running.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
I agree with that.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
So, and I hate calling guys a one trick pony.
I think that's disrespectful. I'm just gonna use it with
the way Shaheed is utilized in the Saints offense, he
does come across as a one trick pony. And by
the way, he is also a free Well there, you
got more of a reason than I wouldn't do that deal.
So when callers present, okay, I wish the Giants would
go after wide receiver, I'm gonna counter based on who

(36:11):
was shipped out of town thus far. John, I'm gonna
live in more of a realistic world. It's a hypothetically,
it's a premium position. Teams aren't gonna trade good players
for those positions unless they're getting premium value back. Like
Jay Giant fans have called up about and again we're
not representing these players. This is not a deal where
we're talking about players on other teams. But people have
speculated Crossolava or Jalen Wattle. Those are the guys that

(36:31):
are twenty five years old or twenty six years old.
And I think Wattle's case that our first round picks
and our potential, you know, either high end number twos
or low end number ones. You're not getting that f
like a three like like that's not what that that
that's not what's happening here. So and those teams have
to be blown away in order to move those types
of players. And plus, Watto's under a very respectable deal.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
Much like the saw scud on a contract. He already
got paid a signing bone, all right, So.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Why would the Dolphins give them away for nothing? If anything,
you hold on to him, you see, maybe if his
value could go up and you trade him in a
year or two. Doesn't make any sense from at least
Miami's perspective.

Speaker 4 (37:05):
Go to line three coach Kevin and is Arizona coach Kevin?
What's going on?

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Hey, how you guys doing.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
We're good?

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Hey, I just as a former coach, By the way,
you know, we never want to criticize another coach, and
I try would never want.

Speaker 4 (37:21):
To do that.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
But I got to share some thoughts just breaking down film.
And I know you guys are good at the analytics,
so but Shane Bowen to me, looks confused, and especially
in this game. Now we all know the Shanahan offense,
it doesn't change. He's a master at what he does.
Yet Bowen kept changing the defensive coverages. I kept looking

(37:43):
at different coverages during the game, but the offense never changed.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
I mean, you want to mix up your coverages, Kevin,
you don't want to show you Yeah, but you don't
want to show Kyle Shanahan the same coverage every play.
Then he's going to kill you.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
No, no, no. What I'm saying is but yeah, but
he didn't. He didn't even run the ipe coverage against
that offense. Against that offense, which is a short passing game,
what two and a half seconds to get rid of
the ball. You've got to tighten up your corners. You can't.
You can't just let him throw the ball in two
seconds and whip it out to some guy and there's
nobody near him.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
Now you are aware, Kevin, of who is bridge.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
Now, you can change the back end, you can change
the safeties and all that, but you can't allow free
a free passing lane. You're not going to get You're
not going to get pressure on the quarterback. Okay, So
you've got to find a way to put pressure on
the receivers early and often to jam it up he's
getting rid of the ball.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
I understand what you're saying, Kevin, And by the way,
I don't disagree with you. And if you were rolling
paulse in a debo and Cooto flat out, there is
your top two outside corners. Absolutely. I think they're worried
about putting their two corners that were out there in
the press coverage when the guys can get behind them,
and then it turns into an eighty r touchdown catch,
especially if Corey Black that.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
But then you've got new guys out there that I
think they know that haven't been starters and and and
I think in one way you can actually confuse them
by by keeping the changing things. And I just don't
I don't see any continuity there with the new guys
coming in. I think you still have to play aggressive.
And this has always been the complaint I've seen I'm
seeing with Bowen, he's just not aggressive. I mean, look

(39:16):
at the player interviews and I listen carefully to these
players that are interviewed by your staff are the people
that with your with your network, And I can see
it in the player's faces. I've been there on the
line for eighteen years. I know what it looks like.
They're down. Man, I don't think I think personally, I
think Bowen has lost the defensive room, all of them.
I just listened to listen carefully, listen to listen to

(39:40):
your former All Pro guide that's on banks. Listen to
what he's saying. These guys are dejected. They don't believe
in the coaching.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
Now, Kevin, now, Kevin, no question. Now, you say they
wanted to be more aggressive. Right, can you explain what
you mean by that, because the last thing you want
to do is blitz of Kyle Shanahan offense. That is
a bad blitz.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
No, no, no, you can't blitz him. He'll kill you
with the blitz.

Speaker 4 (40:03):
Right.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
I'm saying aggressive. I'm saying you get up on the
face in the first five yards and you hit those
receivers and let's say you go to a cover two
man on the outside hit him. You got to slow
it down. You've got to get these guys off balance.
You just can't let them have free run to make
a quick out and in and and and then just
stand there in two seconds and with the ball to

(40:24):
these open spaces, you got to be a lot more
physical on the outside. Yes, I understand, you know it's
a give and take, but against the Shanahan offense. He
hasn't changed his offense in years. It is a lot
of mish mash and scrubs and all this quick stuff.
You gotta be up there and you just got to
be more physical. And I think Shane just got out

(40:45):
coached terribly in this game. And you didn't adjust at all,
no physicality whatsoever. Left the flats wide open, left the
crossers over the middle, the crisscross which had been in
his offense for forever wide open. I mean, you just
can't and you're not going to get a rush, You're
not going to be able to blitz this guy. You
have to be physical with those receivers. And that's all

(41:06):
I have to say. And I think Shane just got
out coach.

Speaker 4 (41:08):
Thank you, Ken, Kevin, appreciate it call and look, I
don't disagree with your concept. I'm always in favor of
pressing up at the line of scrimmage and being physical
receivers and overall this year. Could I understand that criticism, Yes,
and I wouldn't necessarily fight back on it either. But
when you're rolling out the corners the Giants were rolling
out this week, Lance, I get why you're gonna play

(41:28):
a little bit softer there.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
Well, and that's why what my response to Kevin would be,
and I understand where he's coming from. I just think,
unless you speak to Bowen and the position coaches, what
do they think of Corey Black pressing at the line
of scrimmage? I mean, that would be my question to them.
And if they say that's not his strength, we don't
like to put him in a position, then that could
explain why they're not implementing what Kevin is recommending or

(41:51):
some of these other corners, because you're down to options
three and four, and you know he mentioned you're not
seeing continuity. Of course, you're not seeing continuity. These guys
have barely been on the field with one another, so
I don't think that's a surprising development, and I would
agree that is the root of the problem in terms
of not being able to stop the run because the
weakness is the middle and the back end of your defense.

(42:14):
You know, you're asking them to play different coverages in
terms of the receivers, but they also need to still
focus on being in position to help stop the run.
I mean, there was one play and I listened to
the press conferences just like Kevin was. But I also
go back and I listened to the opposing team because
I always learned something to play that McCaffrey was wide
open John in the flat member mac Jones dumped it
off to him and then he ran up the right sideline.

(42:35):
McCaffrey even said that wasn't even designed to go to him.
That was mac Jones just determining on the floor dump
it off to him. Yeah, McCaffrey said. They asked him
about that play. He goes, yeah, I wasn't even designed
to run that route or him being the first look.
He said, Mac. I turned around and by the time
I turned around, the ball was coming to me because

(42:56):
mac Jones noticed. They left me all alive as Corey side.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
For some reason, Corey I was playing forward the seam
and he didn't play the outside so it's been I
think that's difficult. Not Corey blacks fault. It's his first
start as a young guy. That stuff's gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
So I go back to unless I know what Shane
Bowen is thinking and the position coaches, that could be
at least the rationale. And I'm not saying you need
to accept it, but that could be why they're not
saying we're going to bring these guys up and press
the wide receivers because we don't feel that's their strength.
And if you bring a guy up too close John
you try to press him, then you could really be

(43:33):
torched if you're caught out a position. Case in point.
And once again, I'm not trying to get off topic. Now,
a lot of people are making dron Bland out to
be the poster child of criticism. Last night, he was
lined up with Marvin Harrison Junior and he did a
maneuver and crossed them over like a point guard does,
playing the threats, making you try to work on the perimeter,
and he was floored and Marvin Harris Junior walked into

(43:56):
the end zone. So that could happen if you put
a guy in a position where he's not comfortable to
do that.

Speaker 4 (44:01):
All right, let's go back to the phone. Say what's
up to John in New Jersey? John, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (44:06):
Hey, what's up? Guys?

Speaker 7 (44:08):
Thanks for taking the call, love you show thank you.
UH need a therapy session though this has been rough.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
I get it, I get it.

Speaker 7 (44:15):
Another terrible season, three years in a row, two and seven,
we're done by Halloween again. It's uh, you know, but
people try and point that everyone's always trying to figure
out is a chain is Bowen?

Speaker 9 (44:27):
Is it?

Speaker 7 (44:28):
The head coach is the day? It's all the above.
We're on our fourth head coach since the Super Bowl,
and we have a head coach who hasn't shown me
we had the one like, okay, we had a decent
year his first year, we got to the playoffs. But
outside of that, he hasn't shown the ability to squeeze
every ounce out of these players that he has to

(44:49):
come away with winning football, to win a game where
you're not supposed to win. And you know, now we
go down a starter. You know, we've done a couple
of starters that saying offensive a defense, we would go
down with a Debo and Hollins since they're out all
of a sudden, the whole defense falls apart. People have
been running up and down the field since and and

(45:10):
then then therefore blamed that. And then you have to
bring in Joe Shane. Where's our death? You know, that's
what happens when you whiff on first round picks we have.
You know, Deontay Banks is the first round pick that
he's basically you know, it seems like I don't call
a guy useless, so he's trying. But if you're backfilling
with these players who who aren't competent, the whole season's gone.

(45:32):
They can't be like that. We've had four years now
of this and we let uh. I don't have to
bring the whole but you let him Saquon and McKinney walk.
And then you're throwing money at Darius slat who's dropping
balls on the Jackson darks, playing his heart out. Well,
half the team is like, we're not sure if they're trying.
We don't know if it's he's thrown. He's throwing darks now,

(45:52):
you know, down the field, hitting guys in the back, shoulder,
dropping it. I mean, Darius Slayton, come on, he've blew
the game in a in the against the Saints. He
dropped two balls, fumbled in other These guys are supposed
to be helping this rookie out me with the rookiees
carrying them. It's just it's frustrating, it really is. And
and even the kicker. How many times is the kicker

(46:13):
going to cost this a game? Between being hurt sometimes
it's not as fault ry. He gets hurt before the game.
Now he comes in the game, he misses, of all things,
he misses it after a turnover. I mean, he can't
make it up. So to me, honestly, I know you
guys can I want to Nobody wants to come on here.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
Someone's you're fine, you.

Speaker 7 (46:33):
Know, because nobody wants to wish that.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
I want to come on here.

Speaker 7 (46:37):
I want to be looking forward to the game someday.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
But you can't go on this.

Speaker 7 (46:40):
For four years now. So I think we need an
organizational change, And hopefully the organization has an answer, because
we've on our fourth coach now since the Super Bowl,
and you know, luckily, overall body of work we've I've
seen four super Bowls, so overall you can't complain too much.
But this last like ten out of twelve years, has
just been off, you know, and uh, now you know

(47:03):
not to keep going, but then you got the whole
you know, you're embarrassed on Hard Knocks. The Left.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
That's coming out again.

Speaker 7 (47:11):
I mean, we're gonna have to live through this again.
That's coming out. They're doing the NFC East for the
second half of the season. We're gonna be talking about
the same stuff.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
Well, something tells me if if you've looked at appreciate
this episodes, I don't know how much the Giants are
going to be showcased on Hard Knocks.

Speaker 4 (47:25):
And by the way, and I'll keep that in mind.
And also these in season Hard Knocks it's very much
on the field focus. You're not gonna get half as
much behind the scenes stuff as usually getting these episodes.
So yeah, just something to keep in mind.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Well, and the reason why I say it's not necessarily
evenly distributed throughout the division. And I love Hard Knocks.
I've watched it religiously. Last season they did the AFC
North and there was a point where Cleveland you wouldn't
even know they were in the ANFC North. Okay, they
decided we're not going to showcase the Browns.

Speaker 4 (47:54):
They've the league picked. Then Look, you don't want to
know this, but the league picked the wrong year.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Do the NFC East, because it's a down year, are
gonna have.

Speaker 4 (48:00):
Three teams that are going to be out of the
playoff mix in a matter of two three weeks.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
And Philadelphia could very well be running away with things.
I think one of the two probably is still be
in the wild card right because remember, not anybody's running away.
That seventh seed is always within striking.

Speaker 4 (48:15):
In order to bring out the you have to bring
out the cackler and the abvoctates to figure out a
way to put him into the put him in the
in the hunt section on the old Info graphics though.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
That's what happens when they expand the playoffs.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
Daniels, they might might be out for the year. He's
not gonna be there now. Though. You can always film
Jerry Jones doing crazy stuff the LEI love that, so
you can always put the Cowboys on people to watch it.
But the Giants, obviously, the record is what it is.
The Eagles are good for some drama sometimes maybe a
J B locker room issues or something or whatever.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Yeah, and they made a number of trades, so you'll
see how the new guys are meshed in and so forth.
But listen, I understand where the last caller is coming from.
Just a few things real quickly. I don't think the
Canoa misfield goal, though I said earlier in the show
it was a missed opportunity, I'm not disputing that, but
looking back at how the game played out, I don't
think the missfield goal came back to bite the Giants
and that's why they lost to the Niners. That's number one.

(49:03):
I don't want to rehash John the whole Barkley McKinney thing,
which is what the cal of reference, but let's at
least be honest in our assessment. They weren't necessarily winning
with those two guys in the fold, and I'm not
saying that they wouldn't have helped, But to just say
you bring those two back and all of a sudden
everything's great, it's not so simplistic at least to have
that narrow lens.

Speaker 7 (49:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
Look, McKinney's been great since he left. But just just
just in terms of Saquon Ive said this on the
show earlier this year, Look what he's doing with Eagles
this year. That's the type of situation he's been with
with the Giants.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Yeah, where you're not scratching the pinnacle of what he
could do.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
You don't have three yards before contact before contact on
every run where he's getting a head starred. He's not
getting touched in the backfield. So you know, running back success,
as I always say, this is very much determined about
what's going on around them, who the quarterback is, who
the wide receivers are, most importantly, what the offensive line
is doing. So that's very much gonna dictate how running
back place.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
And I mean to go d off John, but I
don't remember. There's a trade off. And we talk about
this all the time. So if you bring back Barkley
and McKinney, if you want to go down this hypothetical road,
which it tends to be the conversation, then some of
the guys that the Giants have brought in are not here.

Speaker 4 (50:09):
Now you might be mine. You might not have camp
Scatabo either, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Correct, because of the draft positioning that you got as
a result of the compensatory picks at all. So you see,
it's a give and take. Maybe a Debo's not here,
maybe Holland's not here. Maybe some of the offensive linemen
run in who they signed. You can't just say we
keep Barkley and McKinney and then we bring in everybody.
It doesn't work like that, you know, just like you
can't give a team back points earlier in a game

(50:34):
and say, oh, well that changes the decision making or
the decision making is going to be the same. There's
a domino effect. There's going to be eighteen other things
that change as a result of the thing that you
changed earlier in the show. All right, this is like
a Marvel movie. But go ahead.

Speaker 4 (50:47):
Yeah, I mean it depends which like dimension. You're right correct,
where you change the path on the line. We need
Owen Wilson here to explain it to everybody with these
averaging passes.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
He'll be a guest host next.

Speaker 4 (50:59):
Yes, correct, All right, let's go to all We'll close
with our friend Johnny Max. So let's go to Levon
in Atlanta. He'll be up next on Big Kickoff Live Levon.
What's up?

Speaker 8 (51:09):
Hey, guys, I'm a longtime listener. I used to call
in sporadically in the past, but usually I'm working in
the afternoons when you guys are on, so I catch
the replay.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
So there's a big experience for you taking live now.

Speaker 8 (51:24):
Oh so I consume a lot of giant content, whether
it be different podcasts, you guys, all the other different shows.
And I just wanted to say that we're bother to
me more than the team struggling. And I'm a fan
of the Giants, my whole life, only football team I
cheer for. It's just the overall temperature of the fan base,

(51:44):
the toxicity of it, of the complaining and the calling
for people's jobs, and I mean, I just I just
think it's not productive. And I know you guys sit there,
you do a oneerful job listening to week after week,
day after day of criticism and fight this person and
this person's not performing well. And you guys never asked

(52:08):
these people harder questions like well, what would you do,
not in retrospect, not after the fact, but tomorrow against Chicago?
What defense should we play? Who should we roll out
there instead of Deontay Banks? When should we blitz? And
I mean, it's not an easy job with the coaches
and what the GM has to do when people want
to want to criticize the moves Joe Shane makes. I mean,

(52:29):
how many teams hit on all seven six of that
draft pick. You don't do that, you know.

Speaker 7 (52:33):
Sometimes you just hit on one.

Speaker 8 (52:34):
Sometimes you hit on a guy and you sign them
to a multi year deal and you turn around and
you trade them during the season. So a guard that
just got dealt from the Jets. So as one Giants fan,
I just want to say I have a positive outlook.
I look forward to every game when we play. I
have realistic expectations. I've looked for improvements in the young players.

(52:56):
I pray for no injuries, and I will always think
that way. I just hope that there's more fans out
there like me, And yeah, if you want to, you
just want, you know, you go up with foot Buffalo
or somebody else. But we'll be good again.

Speaker 7 (53:10):
Thanks guys, thank you.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
Hey, look, Levon, this is what happens when a team
has a sustained period of a lack of success. I
unfortunately am an expert on this topic, given I'm a
Knicks fan, and the two thousand and three to twenty
eighteen Knicks were just probably a little bit more dysfunctional,
but the level of success was similar to what we
see from the Giants over the last you know, ten
or twelve seasons. And look when a fan base gets

(53:36):
just trampled, and you know, it's just disappointing year after
disappointing year. This is what you get. And I know
ownership here gets that. They understand that they're disappointed. Ownerships
devastated by this too. They hate this. They don't want
to lose. They react and watch every game like the
fans do, right, they do, so I get it until

(53:59):
things look, the ultimate vitamin is vitamin W right. Winning.
That's the only thing that fixes any of this is
by winning. And by the way, thanks have started winning,
fans still lose their minds about stuff. They want to
fire Tom Tiba after getting team to Eastern Conference finals.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
So it's that's just how that worked out.

Speaker 4 (54:15):
That's just the way fan bases are, right, That's just
the way fan bases are in all of sports. It
is what it is, fans. I've ever right to be
accept happy to talk to you guys and call do
your complaints. We'll listen to everything you guys have to say.
But I mean, it is what it is. I mean,
that's just kind of where we are right now.

Speaker 9 (54:31):
Right.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Yeah, you just you can't in sports just automatically turn
to making constant changes because that's not going to solve
the riddle either. And I think that's where the last
caller was coming from. And I commend Levn. I mean
that was real strong rational thought and sanity, which you
don't necessarily hear where you take the emotion right And
I get it. Fans are emotional, and they rightfully are
because they're invested. I get that. But that last caller

(54:53):
was a bit refreshing because I think he was taking
a step back from the emotion and saying, Okay, well,
you know, you can't necessarily call all for this changing
and that changing, because that's not necessarily going to do anything.
It goes back to when we were talking to another
call earlier, Kevin, who was saying, you know Shane Bowen
and the changes, Well, you could confuse personnel and then
you're back to square one too. So you're always walking

(55:14):
that fine line where you want to fix things, but
there's no necessarily quick fix by just pushing random buttons too.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
Yeah, no, you're you're one hundred percent right.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
Now.

Speaker 4 (55:26):
On the opposite of the spectrum would be Palence have
to show Wilson to Roxbury, Hi, Wilson, what a segue.

Speaker 6 (55:32):
He listen live on, tell me when you know the
Easter bunnies coming to dinner, and I'll go eat with you.
I mean that was a rough phone call, man, I mean, Johnny, listen,
I don't you know what I said that because people
talk about me when other people that call say I'm crazy.

Speaker 10 (55:48):
So I just had to know.

Speaker 4 (55:49):
Well, said all, we're all having fought. It's all good.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
He didn't mention your name at all. You know, he
didn't bring you up. One hold on, Levon, didn't mention
your name at all. You must be, you know, listening
to other things in your match.

Speaker 6 (56:00):
Well, he kind of, he kind of, he kind of.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
Well maybe, okay, maybe I just took a little farm.

Speaker 4 (56:05):
I think you did.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
I think somebody is a little sensitive this afternoon.

Speaker 6 (56:09):
Okay, Johnny, you know I love you, but but.

Speaker 10 (56:16):
I don't want to tell you I told you so.

Speaker 6 (56:19):
But I have to tell you.

Speaker 10 (56:20):
I told you so last year. I told you, Johnny,
you cannot bring a head coach and a general manager
back that have won six games and three games just
for this, for the sake of continuity, you said, Wilson.

Speaker 9 (56:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 10 (56:37):
I don't know what they're gonna do, but I can't
keep changing over and over. I said, Okay, Jenny, that's fine,
we're back again two and seven. You know how hard
is to win, to go through seven three years in
the row.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
I don't think if you try to do what you
can do it?

Speaker 4 (56:54):
Oh, no, you can.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Have you seen the Cleveland Browns? Have you seen the
New York Jets? Do you want me to name other
organizations over the course of recent and past history.

Speaker 4 (57:04):
Or go differently the Washington Wizards if you please not?

Speaker 6 (57:08):
Last night, could land Land you say you you you
were saying, well, the injuries and the players play.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Every coach could say, well, hey, I sent the play.
The players don't don't execute. Every coach could.

Speaker 10 (57:21):
Say that it's over. I just want to ask you something, though,
I just want to ask something, Okay, in the sight
that if they if they lose against forget about lose,
and I know they're gonna lose against Chicago, but if
they lose and they don't, if they show the lack
or whatever, because they were playing against backups with San

(57:42):
Francisco and there was half the stadium was San Francisco finds.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
I don't know what.

Speaker 10 (57:50):
I don't know what we're gonna do. I mean, I'm
trying to be rational, but I can't. I can't take
a more weeks of this gene.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
I can't, Man, Wilson, Here's here's the bottom mind, Wilson,
it was at all I'm saying we Wasson wasn't all.
I'm saying, even if, even if they do make some
type of change, and I'm not advocating that, I have
no idea what they're doing. I have no idea.

Speaker 6 (58:08):
I don't want you to know.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
No, no, no, no, no no.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
Just let me for advice, entence. Even if they do
make some type of change, I don't think what you're
seeing for the last eight weeks is going to change.
You know. It's not like you're gonna bring a whole
new scheme in here. You're gonna change everything you're doing.
It's November.

Speaker 10 (58:28):
I'm not saying that. I'm not saying I'm just saying that, Jenny, listen,
I'm gonna say something. This is my personal opinion.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
I think you should make a.

Speaker 10 (58:36):
Call to to to next Saving and just to come
in and oversee what's going on and give his opinion.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
Who stays, who goes?

Speaker 10 (58:46):
Jenny, this cannot go on anymore, Jenny. I mean, I
love the giants for forty five years. Man, they have
destroyed me.

Speaker 6 (58:53):
And maybe it's nobody.

Speaker 10 (58:54):
I don't know who's following. I don't want to put
any more blame on it because I'm beyond that. But
but we I mean, if we have to go a
more weeks for this, I just you know, O kid inside,
I don't have any answer.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
That's three for those counting at home that he said,
all kidding aside, but please go ahead.

Speaker 7 (59:11):
Yes, No, I just don't have any answers.

Speaker 4 (59:14):
Lance, Wilson.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
You took the words right out of but Lance right here.
I mean what I say is exactly how I would
summarize most of your phone calls.

Speaker 4 (59:24):
No, but look, I don't think at this point anyone
has any answers. I don't think right now there aren't
any easy answers. I think is the point. I think, Wilson,
I appreciate the call, thank you very much. I don't
you don't have the answers. I don't have the answers.
Lance doesn't have the answers. And if they had the
answers here, it'd be fixed by now. Right There is
no easy Oh just go flip that light switch over there,

(59:44):
and now we're good rock and roll. Let's let's let's
let's all got to do is change one thing and
we're good. Like It's not that easy.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Well, every time Wilson calls up, and I'm not advocating
for or against anybody losing their job, but when you
you call up and Wilson, you keep looking at the
previous history. The Giants have also gone through circumstances where
they didn't give the same leeway to a head coach
like a Pat Shermer, who I thought actually did a

(01:00:12):
nice job with Daniel Jones Florid Joels, correct, and then
you brought in Joe Judge and you went six and ten.
So I'm bringing that up just as an example of
if you look at it from the opposite perspective, you
can make change. And that's fine. You could give a
fresh perspective what you're calling for. But to assume that
two and seven gets thrown out of the window because

(01:00:34):
you're bringing in a new coach in a new GM,
there is no guarantee in the National Football League that
that's going to happen. And that's what I'm trying to
impart in terms of this conversation Wilson's called up previously
and I've said the same thing. I'll continue to say it.
I'm not anti change, but this idea that you change
and that it's going to be easy to flip the switch,
I completely disagree with that sentiment.

Speaker 4 (01:00:55):
The Giants over span from two thousand and let's look
at it, two thousand and seventeen to two thousand and
twenty one, had four different head coaches if you include
Steve Spagnolo as the interim. In those years, they won
three games, five games, four games, six games, and four games.

(01:01:16):
That's what they did.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Yeah, a lot of change, a lot of new stuff,
results all very similar. And you've now been through multiple
quarterbacks two and again that doesn't mean that changes.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
And sometimes the right move sometimes it is, absolutely and
we'll see what Giants ownership decides to do after the year.
But again, it's not gonna be a flip of a
switch type of deal here.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
And the other thing that I just wanted to respond
to Wilson was bringing up the whole thing about any
coach can turn to injuries is being an excuse. John
and I are not sitting here and justifying, you know,
when we were talking about the flaws against the Niners.
We're just explaining to you. The reality is when Shane
Bowen's working with the third and the fourth corner, those
are just the cop conversations that go on you have
the game on the staff.

Speaker 4 (01:02:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
I mean, nobody's saying that Shane Bowen and Brian Dable
are excited and happy that they're working with personnel on
the back end, or that they're running to the podium
and justifying and saying that that's a legitimate excuse. But
the reality is the Giants are where they are right
now because they've lost a lot of person out by
the way, that's what it is.

Speaker 4 (01:02:21):
There's no one more injured than the forty nine ers. Correct,
No one has more injuries than the forty nine ers.
They've lost two Hall of famers off their defense. They
don't have their starting quarterback, they don't have their number
one wide receiver, they don't have their number two wide receiver.
They were missing their number one tight end, another potential
future Hall of Famer and George Kettle for five.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Weeks, Fred Warner.

Speaker 4 (01:02:44):
They're still six and three, you know it. Yeah, by
the way, also missing their second best pass rusher in
Bryce off missing their third best pass rusher and you're
tur Grosmotos. So no, it's not an excuse those to
the forty nine ers. Do you have the game plan
around it? Does they make it much harder to game
play in your defense? Absolutely? Absolutely, which is again what

(01:03:07):
we said before. The Giants offense at the carry, they're
a little little bit this week and they didn't do
good enough. But no, the Niners are just as short
as the Giants were, if not more. So it's not
an excuse this week. No one's making. No one's using that.
And then by the way, the coaches haven't used as
an excuse. No one has. It's just kind of where
you're at. Guys. I know you're looking for answers. I
don't have one for you. Well, see what ends up happening,

(01:03:30):
and the eight games left. You hope Jackson Dork keeps
playing better. You hope you protect him, you hope he
stays healthy. Can't have another loss here, and you try
to just play as go to football as you can,
win as many games as you can, as much as
that old noise fans as they try to find draft
position of the year, that's what they're gonna try to do,
and we'll see where we're at when you get to

(01:03:51):
the final game of the season against the Cowboys anything else.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Like, No, it's just you know, it's not gonna get
any easier. This week with the Chicago Bears, who had
a tremendous win against the Bengals. I still don't understand
how they won that football game, but neither do the Bengals. Exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:04:06):
Bengals in a two straight games like that against the
Jets at the Bears.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Goodness, boy, Sometimes football is a real head scratching scoring
and I think that perfectly laid it out.

Speaker 4 (01:04:14):
But again, you're gonna have to score against the Bears.
Now you've got the same deal. Bears can score points.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
It's a very different team than a year ago. So
this is not the Chicago Bears of old. This is
a team that looks a lot more respectable, and it's
a defense that Listen, gave up a lot of yards
and points of the Bengals, but they've been opportunistic prior
to that, so you know, they're a bit of a
doctor Jekyl mister Hyde meaning yeah, you feel the Giants
should be able to move the football, But the question is,

(01:04:40):
and it's still always going to fall back on this
every week. Can the Giants contain the Bears offense the
run game to put pressure on Caleb Williams to have
to maybe make decisions that are a little bit out
of Carrick.

Speaker 4 (01:04:51):
Whether that's DeAndre Stiff or Kyle Munning guy, either of
multiple back guys.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
And also Caleb can run by the way too, Let's
not forget. And you got a big run late in
that good tight ends.

Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
They have two good wide receivers, three good wide receivers
if he counts the kish's actually a pretty good number three.
So you gonna have to score some points. And look,
Ben Johnson's not Kyle Shanahan yet, but he's a damn
good offensive coach. So we'll see what the Giants secondary
looks like. In terms of health, you think maybe Jamon
Holland could be back this week because he was limited

(01:05:20):
last week of practice. You hope Quardo flot concussion protocol
usually lasts only a week. Sure, hope you get him back.
We'll see about pause to the debo. It'll give you
a better shot, but you're gooda have to score some
points because the Bears offense is pretty good. That's all.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
I'm saying, well, it's follows a fun time absolutely, always
an adventure, never a dull moment. By the way, your
Bulls look pretty darn good this year.

Speaker 9 (01:05:42):
They do. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
Absolutely, he's playing the second game against Josh.

Speaker 4 (01:05:45):
But Josh kid is playing some good basketball, hitting his
threes really impressive.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
Well, this is what happens when you take a complimentary
player from OKAC and you give him a more prominent role. Well,
and you actually able to show his true colors.

Speaker 4 (01:05:57):
Are patient with a young player and let him develop
a little bit and not assume him at age eighteen
when he gets drafted, he's going to be great right away. No,
they maybe it's gonna take at least twenty three or
twenty four.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Anyway, Well, I think the patient approach is paying off
because the Bulls are a young team and now they're
reaping the rewards. It's early, it's looked good and hopefully
it will continue.

Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
Here that no shooter hasn't even played yet. Yeah right, white, they'll.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
Be white played yet. And also Zach Collins has been hurt,
one of their big men. Yeah, he's been sideline too.
They're gonna get both of them back. Yeah, so maybe
we'll get a little.

Speaker 4 (01:06:24):
Having a nice little start.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
We knows, maybe we'll get another Bulls next rivalry renewed.

Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
Always always always looking forward to that, Sir Lance Metal,
I'm John Shmulk. That's you being with us on Big
Blue Kick Off, a live presented by Cadillac, the official
luxury vehicle the Giants from the Hackensack Murdy Hell Podcast
that you'll keep getting better tomorrow. I actually know who's
on tomorrow. It's O'Hara and Madelin.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
I don't know why you always played that game with yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:06:43):
I know he's cracked out. I always a fox it. Yeah,
all right, we'll see Tomar twelve thirty, Big Book Kick Off,
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