Patriots Playbook 10/18: Buffalo Bills Preview and NFL Week 7 Predictions

John Rooke recaps the loss to the Raiders, previews the Buffalo Bills, NFL Week 7 predictions and more. Guests today are Evan Lazar from Patriots.com, Vic Carucci from SiriusXM, Karen Guregian from MassLive Sports and Russell Baxter from ProFootballGuru.com.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
This is Patriots Playbook, the legend. Anybody else playing pork today.
Today's word of the day is porked.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
You know, you know me, John, I'm a big RPO guy.
You know, I love RPOs. I think they're sexy, all right,
I love RPOs.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
You know, you were playing football in the backyard and
somebody recovers the loose ball, and everybody says dog pilot Johnny, Okay, well,
guess what we're dog pilot on the Patriots.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Maybe they get a five game winning street coming, and
maybe we're gonna look back and say, wow, they're fixed
and four and they're right back in there.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
And hey, maybe pigs will fly too.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Now here's your host of Patriots Playbook, John Rook All.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Feeling a little bit porked today. I think poor marine
big pork, he cracked a tooth.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, hey, he came in yesterday and still did the
show and everything, and all of us are like, what
are you doing, Like go to the dentist, dude, Like
I know you fought, you know in wars and stuff.
So I guess like a tooth is a tooth.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
But that's painful, Yeah, that's painful. So we're happy to
have faith run the show today high faith, So at
any rate, so be nice to Faith when you call
in on the show today before or else, Yes, because
that's that's right. We have to take care of Faith.
She's getting the job done today. Stepping in into the
breach for the Marine, Welcome into the playbook. We got

(01:24):
Buffalo game week Here will be joined shortly by Vic Carucci,
longtime Buffalo Bills observer NFL reporter, currently does things for
a couple of different and at these, one of which
would be WGRZ and Buffalo. But Vic's been a friend
of the show for twenty two years that we've done it.
He's been, you know, with us, i think, in some

(01:45):
form of fashion every season, talking about either NFL in
general or talking specifically about the Bills, because that's been
his team of note. Karen Grigian, who covers the Patriots,
she's been a friend of the show for a number
of years, is well currently with mass Live. Karen will
join us and so will Russell Baxter to go through
week seven around the NFL. But you know, as as
it now stands, Evan with this team at one in

(02:08):
five after what we saw this past week, I'm not
sure anything really moved the needle did it this past weekend.
I'm the one thing that I let me let me
begin by saying, the one overwhelming recollection memory what if
that I have from Sunday in Vegas was DeVante Parker's

(02:34):
drop ball. Yeah. I mean, because as bad as it's been,
he catches that pass, the Patriots probably kick a field
goal to win the game. Well yeah, okay, maybe, but
they're in position to do that as bad as it's been.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, I think that. You know, it's funny because I
remember in Week one against the Eagles, Paul, Mike and
Fred and I are sitting in the press box watching
the game, you know, in real time live, and they
got the ball back when Jabriel Peppers forced that fumble
on Jalen Hurts, and it was like they forced it

(03:10):
at I think, like the plus forty or plus forty five,
like they were in like, you know, on the eagle
side of the field, like the turnover was on the
eagle side of the field, and all of them said
they're gonna win this game. And I'm like saying this
to toot my own horn. I just I've seen this
team lose and so many spots where I felt like

(03:31):
they were going to pull it out, you know, the
thought of the game in Week one last year. And
you know games against like Cincinnati, right you know where
they're right on the doorstep and they're they're literally at
like the ten yard line against the Bengals to score
the game winning touchdown and Ormandra Stevenson fumbles the ball
on a handoff. You know, things like that and this team,

(03:54):
And I thought Bill O'Brien put it perfectly. There's like
six or seven plays he said, that decide to most
football games. Like we're not talking about the games like
Dallas and New Orleans where you get blown out. We're
talking about games like Vegas. There's six or seven plays
in a game that usually decide those games. And right
now the Patriots are not making the winning plays late

(04:17):
in those games.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
And if they had done it, you know, Miami is
another example where they're driving with the football and who
was it? Kasiki flips it to Cole Strange on fourth
down and he stopped like an inch short of the
first down marker and on fourth down, excuse me and
the first down marker. And that Eagles game, that Dolphins game,

(04:40):
this game in Vegas, you know, with the ball and
a two minutes to go and a chance to take
the lead. These were games that they used to win,
and they don't win them anymore. And until they start
winning some of these closer games when they do have
a chance to win the ball game, then they're not
going in anyway.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
So what I have to ask then, I guess as
a follow up to that would be have you been
able to decipher? And you and I we've gone back
and forth about this, and you know, fans have their own,
you know, ideas about the root cause of all this
stuff is the fact that they're not able to overcome
the things that they used to do. To whom do
we attribute this sudden you know, pension for coming up short?

(05:23):
Is it max faults? Max fault alone is a combination
of several things. Is it really the offensive line? Because Frankly,
I mean on the play where he got sacked for
the safety, I mean, he had not one but two
guys whiffed. And I just don't understand how that's even
professional caliber football being played When you know you're in
an obvious situation and your quarterback is going to be
in the end zone and you still whiff on the

(05:45):
play because Max Crosby ate him for lunch.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, I think that, you know, it's all the above.
I think Bill O'Brien made a good point again, saying
that because of the two penalties at the beginning of
that drive, they got a holding call, they get first down,
they gained six yards on a little checkdown to Remandre.
Then they get a holding call in the very next play,
and then they get a delay a game right away

(06:08):
after that.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
And these are things that are are this is just
fundamental football. But the problems that have been happening with
this team weekend and week out since the start of
this year and this team last year, well yeah, well
when this team was successful, they didn't make these plays.
Is this the players or is this on the coaches
for not coaching it or being I don't know, disciplined enough.

Speaker 2 (06:31):
I think it's both. I and you know, Brian's point
was is that because they get these two penalties, and
he also pointed to the opening drive of the game
where they started out with two penalties too. There's no
rhythm to the offense, right, like you're just you're knocking
yourself backwards first of all, like you're moving backwards, but
you're also just losing you know, that drive starting rhythm

(06:52):
of like okay, you know, first drive against New Orleans
they have an eight yard run right first and ten
eight yard run second and two, and they go incomplete, incomplete,
three and out and there's just no they're not getting
into the flow of the game. And I think for
a lot, you know, you can blame the players for
the execution or the lack thereof, and they're a lack

(07:12):
of attention to detail. I also put some of the
penalties and and you know, especially the procedural stuff like
a delay a game, you have to put some of
that on the coaching. But I think the biggest thing
is is that as players, you know, you need you
need to feel good about yourself, like you need to
get into a rhythm. You need to have some success
early on in these games. Mac Jones needs to complete

(07:35):
some passes. Ramondre Stevenson needs to get into a flow
of the game of carrying the football and having positive
yards and things like that. And because they're starting these
games so poorly, they're eight are running up hill the
entire game, but be they're just they're disjointed, like there's
just no continuity there's no rhythm, there's no h you know,

(07:56):
sort of like they're not getting into it. They're not
sweating into the game, right, Like it's in that old cliche.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
And who should we be pointing the finger at?

Speaker 2 (08:04):
I think that on in my opinion, when it comes
to the start of the game, that's what that's the
coaches in my opinion, because that that's your you've been
waiting all week.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
For that game. You're gonna follow, right, You're you're scripting
some things out and yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Like you know you're talking. Most people talk about the
opening spript script being uh, some teams do it differently, right,
Like some teams it's shorter, sometimes it's longer. But let's
just call it ten plays just to be safe, right,
So your first ten plays of the game are usually
plays that you are in the install for the game
plan that you've been practicing all week, that you've been
telling the players all week long. First and ten at

(08:46):
the twenty five when we get the football to start
the game, this is the play we are running and
you and so the fact that they they you know,
basically predetermine these things and they still aren't executing it
tells me that something about the coaching and the details.
You know, it's really the details. And I know that.

(09:06):
You know, people get myself included, get caught up and
they don't have the talent to go out there and
you know, hit the bombs or hit the sixty yard
play or hit the you know, explosive and that thing
is like that. But when it comes to like getting
into the game and getting a rhythm and scoring early
and not getting into these ten nothing thirteen to three

(09:27):
holes like those types of things, I think, are you
need to start the game better.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
All right, So to that end, then I'll share with
you again because you know this has been one of
my hugest hugest is that a word, hugest pet peeves
for several years. Yes, Okay, here we go.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
I know exactly what you're gonna.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Say, and you know which one it is. Yeah, And
it has to do with before we ever kick the
game off. Yeah, the coin flip. Yeah, and the Patriots
win the flip and they always, always and forever until
add nauseum infinity defer. Yeah. Now I understand the whole

(10:05):
You don't need to explain it to me. I get
the whole idea of the double score listen, when the
Patriots had Tom Brady at quarterback and they had dynamic receivers,
running backs, you know, an offensive line that could block. Okay, yeah,
I get it. The double score idea is a great
idea because Tom could manage and massage the clock as
well as any quarterback has ever done that in the
history of the game. But two things here. I know

(10:26):
the Patriots are poor on offense right now, I know this,
So why does it make sense then to start the
game on offense rather than on defense? Because on defense,
in theory, you're playing to your strength because you feel
like you have more confidence in your defensive side than
you do on your offensive side. But my point here
is number one. This is like the guy who throws

(10:47):
a ninety eight mile an hour fastball early in a
baseball game, right, he kills people to the first what
two three innings, right, yeah, throwing ninety eight, throwing solid gas,
maybe even touching one hundred every now and then by
the start of the worth thinning, guys start catching up,
and then before long those foul balls become you know,
line drive base hits, and then before too long he'll
leave one over the middle of the plate and Boof gone, Yeah,

(11:10):
how can he avoid that? Well, how do most pictures
avoid that? They throw something called a change up or
a curve or a slider or something that the better
is not expecting. And that's my point. Don't the Patriots
have to figure out a way to throw something at
the opposition that they are not expecting.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, it's a good point. And at this point, I think,
you know, O'Brien was actually asked about it on Tuesday,
and you know, in reality, I truly think and he
didn't completely put it off on Belichick, but like, it's
probably more the the head coaches call. I was gonna
say Bill's call, but that's confusing. It's probably more the

(11:54):
head coaches call about you know what you're really doing
in that spot. I at this point, they have to
try to do something differently to start the game better,
right like they haven't. They've started games poorly all year.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
And that's that's the whole. That's the whole.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Look, I agree with you.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Finally, I'm well, thank you, You're welcome, But because I
feel like I've been right on along, but nobody pays
any attention.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
I've been, so you know, I know you explain the
double score thing, but it actually for Belichick, and Michael
Lombardi wrote it. I think he wrote it. I don't know.
You can just google it and you'll figure you'll find
it about the middle eight, right, So it's the last
four minutes of the second half, first half, in the
first four minutes of the second half, yes, And the

(12:36):
middle eight theory or the middle eight principle, whatever you
want to call it, is that not only are you
setting up the double score at the beginning of the
you know, the end in the beginning of the half,
you're also basically keeping the other team's offense off the
field for like thirty minutes of real time. Yeah, and

(12:56):
that can throw off the rhythm. So when you're especially
you know, Belichick, I think really came up with this
theory like years ago, maybe even in Cleveland. But I think,
you know, a lot of the reason why is like
when you're facing a great quarterback like Peyton Manning, and
if you can get Peyton Manning to sit there for

(13:16):
an hour and get out of his rhythm and throw
them off his game and all that kind of stuff,
you know you're gonna that's gonna benefit your football team.
But I'm with you, that Look, they got to try
everything differently, like they're one in five. So like continuing
to just do the same thing is the definition of insanity.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yes, thank you? Then that's that's my point. Is that
what we're embarking upon now is sheer insanity? Yeah, because
you keep doing the same thing expecting a different result
and it doesn't happen. And and to this particular instance, Look,
the Patriots struggle. They can't perform from behind. Yeah, but
that's all they've ever been this year. Maybe with the lead,

(13:59):
maybe somehow things can turn out differently or force them
to play differently, or force the opposition to play differently. Now,
I granted, grant you it'll be hard for the team
to take the opening kickoff and moving seventy five dow
yards down the field score touchdown. That I understand that part.
But you can't you don't have a shot at it
unless you have the ball.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, I mean they're just getting down way too quickly
in these games, like it's every week, it's every week,
and like you know, let's let's just take for a second,
let's take the Dallas and New Orleans game that of it,
because those two games, they were not competitive, right, right,
they got blown the f out. They were not competitive.
But if you just look at the three or four games,

(14:38):
you know that they were competitive. In the Jets game,
they had a leady I think they were winning ten
to nothing at one point in the Jets game. But
the Eagles game, the Dolphins game, and now this game
last week in Vegas, they were down double digits by
like this midway through the second quarter. I think it
was like, you know, in some of those games, it
was like to start the game, like, you know, you're

(14:58):
down to the Eagles, is it like eighteen to three
or whatever. This score was absolutely immediately like in the
first quarter. And you just, regardless of if you're a
good comeback team, bad comeback team, good offense, bad offense,
that's not a way to live in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Your mind set, Your mindset changes, Your play calling probably
changes because you've got to do something, you know, to
stem the tide. So you're thinking probably more possession type
of offense simply because you want to keep the ball
out of the other guy's hands because they got already
a big lead on you. It changes the face of
the game if you're playing from a lead. And again, yeah,
they have a lead in the Jets game, and that's

(15:34):
the one game that they won. And I'm they didn't
win the game because they played from the lead rather
than the loss or from behind. I will grant you that.
But it just changes the face. It changes the attitude,
it changes the tempo, It changes how the other guys
look at you. It changes a lot of different things.
And the keyword here is change. You got to throw
them something they're not expecting. I would love for them

(15:56):
to come out Okay, this is crazy, but I'd love
for them to come out the Malik and run our
pos and let him just take off with the ball,
you know, or let or let Hey. You know what
they did on the touchdown play this last week. You
know they let Ezekiel Elli go from the wildcat. Yeah,
I'm fine with that. I'm okay with that. Give give
them something that they won't expect. Now, you can't make

(16:17):
a steady diet of it. I'm not not saying to
do that. But if you get the other team thinking
they can't react, and right now, teams are teeing off
on this woeful Patriot offensive line, yeah, and they're blowing
by guys, and you're getting your quarterback to capitate it.
And I've heard several people say this, and it's an
accurate term. And I think you started it. Mac is broke. Yeah,

(16:39):
he's broken, and it's nobody's fault, but this coaching staff
and this organization's fault. They broke Mac. Mac didn't break Mac.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that, and I
I think Mac is broken and at the point where
good job faith with the emails. Yes, I'm at the
point now where I the best way to put it like,
I don't know if you can put Humpty Dumpty back
together again.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
I guess like, and that's that's actually.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
At way because you've done this to him now two
years in a row, I know. So I don't know
if you can. If sorry for him, yeah I do.
I don't know if he's salvageable at this point. And
I don't mean that as like a knock on him
or disrespect towards him, but I I think that in general,
with this offense, they they have to find some success

(17:31):
early in these games, because you know, we were talking
to some of the players last week, and some of
those guys they were saying they have like you know,
Wednesday's a big early down day.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Right.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
In practice, they pads are on, they run a lot
of first and second down offense, run game like, that's
that's what Wednesdays are all about. They have calls on
the call sheet. Bill O'Brien has calls in the in
the game plan that they don't even get to because
they're down so quickly in these games that he has

(18:05):
to completely abort mission. Right, Like, you know, they have
all these first down play calls on up their sleeve,
but when it's thirteen to three, ten minutes into the game,
they there's no reason, right Like, they don't. They don't,
they can't call it correct, So they have to figure
out a way to start the game better when it
comes to throwing things that are different at the team.

(18:26):
I think, you know that was I I blame like
the phrasing of the way that Bill said last week,
we got to start all over. I think a lot
of people took that as they're going to completely throw
out what they're doing and you're going to see a
totally different offense, like in terms of scheme, right.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Like, they don't they can't do that, they don't do that,
they won't do.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
That, right, so, but what he really meant was, we're
going to go back to the spring and go back
to day one of This is our base place, right,
these are our base runs, these are our base base
paths plays, and that's what we're gonna run because we
are maybe getting a little bit too caught up in
game plan and cowboys and Micah Parsons and this that

(19:11):
and the other thing where we just need to worry
about us right now before we can start worrying about
all that. So when I heard start all over, that's
that's the way I took it was, Okay, what are
Bill O'Brien's bass plays, what are his core concepts, And
that's what we're going to run. And that's what they
did against the Raiders. Was it completely all this, you know,

(19:32):
really successful?

Speaker 1 (19:33):
No?

Speaker 2 (19:33):
No, But in the second half they did have those
two touchdown drives and they found some things in the ground.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
The seventeen played drive by the way. I mean, I
was happy they would drive with the ball, but I'm like,
could somebody play with a little sense of urgency here?

Speaker 2 (19:45):
So it's a good question. They're like a good point
and he was asked about that too. So you're hitting
on all the things that.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
I pay attention. You pay attention. I pay attention. I
knew I know you did, all right, Okay.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, I too. Tuesday, you know, he was asked about that,
and I think that it was Mike Reese is the
one that asked the question, and he phrased it really
interestingly to me, was like, do you have to walk
before you can run? Meaning can you not even worry
about how long it's taking? But but just because you know,
you have to just string positive plays together. And I

(20:21):
think that goes back to your point about the double score,
Like there used to be a time when they could
go into the four minute offense and they could execute
it so well that Brady would like sit there and
he'd call a time out with like three seconds left
with the ball right in the middle of the field
for like a chip shot thirty yard field goal to
win the game, right like that. There used to be

(20:42):
a time and place for that. But this offense can't
do that. They can't like be like, oh, well, can't
do that. We gotta hurry up, guys, because then they'll
hurry up and then they'll make a mistake and then
they'll be over.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
That's that's now you hit the nail on the hit.
The problem is is that they want to play that way,
they don't know how or they are in care capable
of playing that way. And so I lay that at
the feet of two things. Number One, I laid that
obviously the foot of the athlete themselves, because well, you're
a professional, you should be able to do that. Number Two,
I lay that at the feet of the coaching stab
as well, because they're not coaching it. They're not teaching it,

(21:14):
and they're not selecting the players that have the aptitude
to perform it. Yeah. Yeah, it is a total systemic failure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
I think that in terms of like the personnel side
of it. Everybody knows. I've said it a million times
about how the talent and the neglect of the offense
and all this kind of stuff. I think that there's
one thing that really stands out to me though, Like
being around the guys, you know, as much as we're
allowed to and everything, I just I don't know how

(21:46):
many winners they really have in that locker room. Like
I don't know, and I hate to say it like
that because I don't want to be personal, but like
I don't know how many killers they really have.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Killers and winners I think are two different things. Yeah,
the winners, I think they have plenty of because they
have guys who have been team captains. That's you know,
part of their that's part of their recruiting process when
they got on the interview these guys, right, Yeah, they
want guys who've been leaders on their teams. Just sometimes
the level the football might not be what you would expect,
but that's what they want. Killers. Different story. Yeah, they

(22:15):
don't have enough guys that really like you know, they
like to gnaw the meat off the bone. Yeah, Okay,
I think they had one at least that I saw,
and I have two or three. But the one that
I saw from you know, you'll come up at least
a little bit and thought I had promise was Keyon White.
I thought he was one of those potential killers. I
think that Kyle Duggar has been a potential killer. Jabrill

(22:37):
Peppers went healthy, he's been a potential killer, and he's
the one that made the one hit that everybody's been
talking about because it's the only time we've seen the
Patriots smack down anybody on any other team this year
thus far. This last weekend, so there are, there are spots,
but there aren't enough of them.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, and none of them are on offense.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
No, Like you know, that's another good point.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
I go back to say, I think it was twenty
six team. I think it was twenty sixteen when the
Patriots played the Steelers and they had to go on
that game winning drive and it was just Braidy to Gronkowski,
Braidy to Gronkowski, Brady to gronkoust nobody could start and
nobody could stop it because Gronk was a killer. Like
Gronk was like, I'm you always mine. You can't cover me.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
No, I know you can't cover me, and yet we
have you know, Devon Parker on the other you know,
Devonte Parker on the other side, who's like, well, it
might have touched my fingertip. Yeah, dude, the ball hits
you in the hands, you dropped it, own it. And
when he didn't own it, I was done. Yeah, I'm
done with the guy. Done.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Yeah, I agree, And he just those those guys, And
I think this is a general like statement about the
entire team too. On offense. I don't know if those
guys necessarily have the confidence in themselves and in the
program and in the offense and then the.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Quarterback and who does that come back to?

Speaker 2 (23:56):
Hey, yeah, it comes back to the coaches, I think,
and you know all these like the confidence I think
is a big word. Like Gronkowski had the confidence that
nobody on the Steelers defense was going to cover him
on that drive and they march right down the field.
Does DeVante Parker have the same belief in his quarterback
and himself and the line and the whole operation?

Speaker 1 (24:18):
None of the above, right?

Speaker 2 (24:20):
And I think that that's when you start to see
the you know, the cracks, right, is that if you
know that type of play, the the Gronkowski's, the Edelman's,
like those guys of the world make that catch.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
Like I said, systemic failure, Yeah, at all levels, Yeah,
at all points, you know. And and it's unfortunate that
it manifested itself to even get to this point because
it has come like a blindside hit to you, to me,
to fans, to media, to everyone who's covered and watched
the New England Patriots play football this year. It has

(24:54):
been a blind side hit. So the question now stands,
you know, at one in five, what do you do
from this point in time? You have you know, a
division rival this week who could make mincemeat out of you,
although they have their own injury issues going into the
game this Sunday, which would probably level the playing field somewhat.
We'll talk to Vic Crucy from Buffalo and just a

(25:17):
little bit on that one. But you gotta kind of
wonder what the next step would be, because it's a
little early to start talking about tanking for the draft.
And I've never believed in that theory anyway. If you're
a professional, you play ball and that's it and you
don't worry about it, and the chips fall where they may.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
You know, Yeah, I think that that's a good point
because we get this a lot, and I understand and
you know, fans, certain fans have given up on the
season for certain fans want a tank for the draft pick.
You know, certain fans are all right. You know, we
talk about this stuff on a on an almost daily basis.
I write about it, and people will respond to my

(25:55):
tweets about the team like why why you even do it?
Like regardless it might be my job and stuff like that.
You know, who even cares? Like this is ridiculous?

Speaker 3 (26:02):
Right?

Speaker 2 (26:03):
The bottom line is is that nobody whether they can
do it or not is a totally different conversation. But
nobody in the locker room is giving up on the
season at one in five. Nobody is. So Our job
and my job, I feel like, is to try to
tell you guys, like what I think that they might
be doing, to try to turn this thing around, because
that's what they're doing. Like they're not no One then out.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
No, they're trying. Yeah, they're trying. They don't have the
personnel to do it, but they're trying.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, And I think the main thing that you got
to do, if you're the Patriots offense especially is try
to master what I was just talking about, your base offense,
Like start at square one, start at A, and then
we can worry about you know BCD.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Right, Yeah, that's all we gotta do. Awesome. I appreciate
you anytime, as always, Evan Lazarre, Patriots dot Com. The
aforementioned Vic Caruci now joining us here inside the playbook.
Vic of course, has covered the Buffalo Bills for you
know how many years, Vic? How many what do you remember?
We in now?

Speaker 3 (27:02):
Wow? Well, I guess it started in eighty nineteen eighty two,
off and on, but it hasn't been constant since then,
So since my return to Buffalo, I guess was twenty fourteen.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Right, Okay, because yeah, because I remember for a long
time you covered the NFL for the Sporting News and
other places, and we should mention that, Yeah, you do
a lot of things for WGRZ Television in Buffalo, and
you also started a column for a site known as
the thirty third Team. You want to tell us a
little bit about that one.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah, it's you know, it's really cool. It stems from,
of course, building a lot of league wide relationships at
NFL dot Com serious XMNFL Radio, on which I've regularly
appeared since twenty four right since the channel came aboard
and Mike Cannenbaum founded this, the former NFL executive Jets

(27:54):
and Dolphins, along with Joe Banner, for whom I worked
when I worked for the Brown for a while and
ran all their internal stuff media wise, and they approached
me and said, you know, now that you're kind of
stepping away from the day to day with the Buffalo News,
would you be interested in, you know, gabbling and writing
for this. And it really has been a blast working

(28:17):
with I mean, the roster loaded with with Hall of
Fame gms and coaches.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
I've noticed from.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Players right, it's really a stellar lineup and it's really
fun to For me, every conversation with one of those
people is always like a masterclass in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah, I've noticed. So I'll give it a little plug
here in case anybody is unaware of it. Just you
can find it at the thirty third team dot com. Correct, yep, okay.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
No paywall. Just go in there. You know they're they're
really building up the site and it's great. And that's
the other nice thing is from what I've been told
by those who run it, that it's gaining a lot
of eyeballs and people are coming to it and recognize
So I look one, what is the most competitive world

(29:06):
in media NFL coverage and layer today?

Speaker 1 (29:12):
That's very true. Well, it caught my eyeball, so I
wanted to make sure I got that out as well,
because I said, hey, this is cool. I'm going to
read this stuff. Especially well it's not under a paywall.
I'm gonna go, I'm gonna get gonna get after it
a little bit. Paywalls are try to charge your subscription. Well, yeah,
and you know what I you know, listen, Uh, the
way things have gone with media these days, charging a

(29:32):
subscription doesn't surprise me, because everybody deserves to be paid,
you know.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, that's that's the way of it. And you're right,
I mean I you and I both have been around
this long enough to know what the original concept of
And I think you know, I know we're getting.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Off to that's all right, no worries. We like to
digress here.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
Okay, well I'm digressing. But you know, early on it
was I understood the basic thought of they got a finance,
we've got to put it out there, let people see
it and consume it. Yeah, but the but the drawa
and and some still do of course, but for the
most part, Uh, if you don't have you know, it's
either it's the advertising or subscriptions. And and I guess

(30:13):
you know, if you're following that Netflix formula or the
for the you know, New York Times or whatever you
want to call it. Uh, you know, Amazon, you're you're
you are. You've got to get people to pay pay
for your product, or else your product doesn't have a worth, right.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yes, precisely, people want things for free, vic And it's
kind of like, well, then really, what's it worth if
you're getting in for free, right if it's it's only
going to be worth something if you willing to pay
a little something for it.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yep. Yeah, So anyway, it's fun and thanks for bringing
that up. And yeah, it's just it's it's you know,
doing the you know, the TV stuff, the serious stuff,
and then having the chance to chat with you, uh
once or twice a year when the bills play the past.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Well, it's it's it's always good to talk to you.
You gosh, we've been doing this for for so long.
I just you know, want you know, it's it's always
that you and and believe it or not, you and
and Armando Solgero have been the two guys that have
been steadies for this program for the twenty two years
that we've been doing this show here on Patriots dot Com.
And so yeah, well, well you know, both of you
guys are at the top of my list. I would

(31:15):
I will tell you that not only in terms of
your talent and your ability, so I'll blow a little
smoke up your score on this one. But but but
just because you know not only the NFL, but you
know the division we're we're you know, this is and
that's what I love most about, you know, covering the
Patriots is the rivalries in the AFC East or have been,
even when the Patriots were kicking everybody's butt. I'm like, yeah,

(31:38):
but you know, listen, don't sleep on those Bills, don't
sleep on those Jets. And you know, because anything can happen.
And you know the fact that the Patriots. Yeah, go ahead, and.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Netsy, I was gonna say to your point, to your point,
regardless of who's got the you know, who's the top
dog or who's got the upper hand. Yeah, the rivalries,
uh by, they don't have a singular definition. No, for
Bills fans. You know, for the longest time, as you know,
it was Bill's Dolphins and it was all about you know,

(32:10):
back and and you and caused by what dolphin dominance
a long time until the Bills you know, turned the
table and gotten their Super Bowl years and all that
and then the prolonged uh Tom Brady Patriot ownership of
the Bills, and that entire division was a thing too,
but it built the rivalry was defined by let's find

(32:31):
a new way to hate that guy that team and
hate their fans and you know, and yes, and our
business is love and hate generates the interest.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yes, that's right. There's no middle ground. You either got
to love somebody or you gotta hate their guts. That's right.
So how do the Bills then, let's let's jump from
you know, the historical perspective here, how do the Bills
then continue their recent run of dominance UH in the
AFC East UH in light of what we've seen from

(33:03):
Miami this year, because frankly, Miami is the fastest football
team I have seen, maybe ever staggering.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because in the context of
the Bills, you almost look at that Bills win against
miamis and as dominant as that was, really as one sided,
even though Miami got a few touchdowns, there nothing in
comparison to what they normally do. And then and they
were coming off of seventy point that seventy bigger and

(33:34):
Denver ye, but Buffalo getting forty eight against them? Is that?
And the question you find yourself wondering, and as we
you and I stand here today looking at the Bills,
looking at the entire division, was that an outlier? You know?
Was that a real did that thing really happen? Well,
it really did. I witnessed it. I thought they found
the right antidote to what tou tongue of Iloa and

(33:57):
that speedy that track teamy as around them and that
was pressure him. That was good, you know, good coverage
combinations causes for hesitation. And again even when I mean
he never quite got to a consistent form of comfort,
which and by the time he was the Bills that
already you know, piled up enough points and were in control.

(34:21):
Can that happen again with a roster now that has
been since that game really beaten up on the defensive
side at Milano was such a vital cog. It probably
gone for the season. Uh De Kwon Jones, who has
been a quiet and steady interior performer, probably gone for
the season. With their injuries that they suffered in London

(34:44):
against Jacksonville and then of course Tredavious White at corner out,
you're taking some some real big marquee defensive names out
of that grouping, especially Milano and White, and you're and
you're left with a team that's pressed to find its
way with its depth. They're they're holding up. I mean,

(35:05):
I will say that has not been any of the
problem they've had in their last two games, where they've
been one and one and nearly oh at two. In
light of that game Sunday night against the Giants, which
they were primed to lose, they had done just about
everything they could to put themselves in the position to lose.
Just that the Giants are awful, and at least offensively awful,

(35:27):
and couldn't find any answers a Giant defense pretty darn solid.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah it was. I have to admit, Vic, I have
to admit I fell asleep in the third quarter.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
And you missed the best, you missed the most.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Oh I won't. I wont up in time at the
end to see the Bills hold on and win the game.
But I'm kind of like, oh damn, I missed their
two touchdowns? What the hell it was?

Speaker 3 (35:48):
It was a snowsfest in many ways. I mean, okay,
but that all aside, I'm not sure the Bills offense
is definitely cause for concern for them. Starts uh, They
Josh Allen and by extension, Ken Dorsey, the offensive coordinator,
struggling to find answers against the Blitz. The Jaguars game

(36:11):
was pretty revealing in that regard. They were really troubled
by the Bills offense, was by the various pressure packages
and looks, even simulated blitzes that threw them off. Giants
with with Don Wink Martindale did the same darn thing.
And of course they've got you can't just have good coaches,
but they're better be talent behind it, which I know

(36:33):
people following the pass know these days you've got to
have the horses beyond beyond the brains, behind the brain
or in front of them.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
And right in terms of the Giants, you know, there's
a lot of talent on that defense and Deep put
it to good use. Allen was, you know, was frustrated
in many ways. I also think that he is uh
somewhere caught in this vacuum of run or don't run.
You know, it's been preached to him to be cautious about,

(37:06):
you know, being reckless with his body. That's been Sean
McDermott and Brandon being the GM They've been pounded a
home since throughout the off season, and I think what
they have now is a guy who isn't sure what
he should be doing when it comes to his legs,
because they are a valuable part of his game. Now
he's dealing with a spring shoulder. Let's let's bring that

(37:26):
up right up front. Yep, uh limited his or shoulder injury.
I don't know exact to the extent of what it is,
but but it's considered. It's been downplayed by him. UH
downplay and he and he and uh uh. Sean McDermott
called him day to day today. He was limited in practice,
so that's at least noteworthy if he's if it's if

(37:47):
it's nothing. According to Josh, it was something enough for
the Bills to limit what he did in practice, uh,
or whatever that's worth. I think he starts, he plays.
I don't. I'm not casting any doubt on his availability
uh on Dave Foxborough. But beyond that, you know they
are right now when they're clicking, when they've clicked their

(38:08):
best in the stretch of three games they won before
they played Jacksonville, they were a balanced offense, and by balance,
not just the running game coming for as it did
in the second half against Giants and open things up.
But it's Josh completing passes to like nine different receivers,
letting the game come to him, not forcing the ball

(38:30):
like he was doing in that jet opener that helped
lead to three picks.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Right, which is what I think Patriots fans probably have
to have the most worry over. Is because Josh Allen
still knows how to go out and spread the ball around.
And the Patriots, you know, have enough issues guarding one guy,
much less seven, eight or nine guys. Vic Carucchi again
joining us here, why Vic you mentioned? And both teams
have injury problems. We know this, and Buffalo's maybe a

(38:55):
little bit more prevalent, only because of Buffalo's standing thus far.
You know within you know, the AFC in with the
AFC East, But why does the defense still seem to
be able to sort of limit the other team's offense
even though they're suffering these these injuries. Is this the
depth better than you originally thought? Is is the coaching
staff adjusting? What are you thinking along those lines?

Speaker 3 (39:17):
I think it's not one answer, John. I'll say this
coaching definitely has helped a great deal. And it's Sean
McDermott who's now wearing the additional hat of defensive coordinator.
He took that on in the off season. They nudged
Leslie Fraser aside Leslie is is you know and you

(39:37):
know that wasn't a choice by him to take a
year off that. You know, Sean took control. He wants
to push all the buttons on defense. It's it's his background.
He did that in Philly, He's he did that with Carolina.
That's what got him a head coaching job. And now
he's doing his thing and doing it well, really putting
these guys in good place. I'll start there depth. Yes, obviously,

(40:01):
you're right if you get people hurt and others step up.
And when I say step up, are they stepping up
as all pros?

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (40:09):
You know?

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Solid. I'm not sure that a star has emerged or
stars have emerged, but I think guys who are holding
their own. But I quickly add to that, the two
teams now Jacksonville h even though there was a lot
of hype about Trevor Lawrence in that offense and Doug
Peterson's team entering the season, you know they weren't playing

(40:30):
that way leading up to that game against Buffalo, and
and then even through the course of that game there
were issues that they were having. And again Buffalo's defense
didn't really fall apart despite those early injuries, especially to
Milano and Jones in the front and the defensive front,

(40:51):
and then the Giants they were facing Tyrod Taylor, a journeyman,
you know, guy backup guy who's who stepped in making
his first start as a Giant. Daniel Jones was hurt,
was you know, had had the injury of the neck injury,
so and and it's a limited offense, uh that the
Giants hadn't yet they were you know, they were in

(41:11):
the game and mean they shot, had they not screwed
their game up so much? And I think before you
fell asleep you saw they did at the goal line
and the horrible management. Now, you know, part of me is,
you know, yeah, that's that's what you're going to get
when you don't have your starter in there and it's
tire right there. But a part of it also is
just that's on the coach too, That's on Brian David.

(41:33):
You know, you got to figure that stuff out there
there there had Mike Kafka, the coordinator, they had. They
were all falling apart at that point. And honestly, because
I think they went into that game expecting probably to
be a founding outside, I don't think they were, you know,
ever feeling comfortable that they could take control and they

(41:55):
had an opportunity right.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
There that they sure absolutely all right, Vic, So you know,
I don't know if you're aware of this or not,
but I haven't seen I didn't see the spread when
I got up this morning, but I heard yesterday on
local radio here that the Patriots haven't been as big
a home dog and I think it was nine nine
and a half somewhere of that, Yeah, like that, but

(42:17):
the Patriots have not been a home dog like this
since the nineties.

Speaker 6 (42:22):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Wow, this is their biggest I guess, the biggest underdog
they've been at Gillette Stadium in the stadium's history. And
the stadium is twenty three years old this year. So
I'm just kind of curious to what you think about
that in a historical perspective, all those years that the
Patriots were inflicting pain, and now the Bills can actually
go after their fifth straight win in this series, overrun

(42:44):
New England here and continue to keep the Patriots winless
at home this Sunday.

Speaker 7 (42:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:49):
Well, A couple of things come to mind on that is,
you know, I know, I don't remember what the stat was,
but something else was a nineteen ninety five not since
ninety five thing and it was a negative for the Pats.
So I know now we're getting to that, and that's
the sad reality when when teams fall into this this
losing mode, uh and the other thing that for me

(43:11):
that's odd. It's not it's not from a Bills perspective,
but just someone who covered covered the league as a
whole for more than a decade, well more than than
and I still do. But I mean in my time
specifically of traveling around and writing when I was with
NFL dot Com, Uh, the Pats felt like a regular
beat to me. I mean I was always there and
and you know, and it was and I always, by

(43:33):
the way, enjoyed the the presence of it. Wasn't any
sort of rooting interest because I try to keep that
as including what I do now. It's the worst thing
to get too emotionally attached to anything, uh good or bad.
But but the the good part for me was how
it felt there like you knew you were in an

(43:54):
elite excellent uh you know, level of a level of excellence,
and and it felt that way throughout seeing it. Seeing
the opposite of that now is a hard thing to digest.
I'm still and I know your you go through that
and with your show and your callers and everybody else
or whoever is discuss interacting, uh, because I listened to

(44:16):
the previous conversation that you had with the writer from
from Patriots dot Com. It's the same, that same sense
of what are we dealing with here? Because these are
topics that hadn't been broke before. And I still hold
the hold Bill Belichick's coaching to the highest regard. But
you can't ignore when things you know are bad and

(44:37):
why are they bad? And you and that's what happens.
What are they? What are the reasons people when things
are going well? Uh yeah, people want to what are
they doing? Well, let's list the things, but the list
of what's going wrong or why it's wrong is a
much longer one.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
It's overwhelming, right, it's overwhelmed.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
It's overwhelming. So as I look at it, the line
or or whatever you want to it is probably the
Vegas guys probably got it right. But I thought they
had it right with fifteen or so of that giant game,
and we saw how that turned out. So at the
end of the day, the spread really doesn't mean anything
except for how the money is moving on the game.

(45:15):
We know that. I think it's more to me about
the matchup, and I've looked at I've watched the all
twenty two of you know, of the Patriots, and I
just see so many holes, so many flaws, so many
areas that if the Bills are playing most of their game,
not even being fantastic, but just being not self destructing

(45:40):
like they when they've lost. That's the common denominator when
they've lost this season, those two games, Jets, Jaggs, they
found a way to look they did it to themselves
more than I think the opponent, So they if they're
approaching this game is something other than that, then I
don't see them having a problem controlling this one throughout

(46:00):
and having a you know, pretty comfortable victory.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Yeah. I think it's going to take self inflicted wounds,
you know, for Buffalo to probably lose this, as you suggested,
the two losses that we've that we've seen so far.
I mean, I was stunned really by the Jacksonville one
until I realized, okay, number one, Jacksonville had been there
for a week in London, so they obviously had a
built in advantage I think right there, which I'm sure
didn't make anybody in Buffalo terribly happy. And number two,

(46:25):
I thought the Giants came out and played really chippy
to started the game this last week. It's almost like,
you know, hey, we're going to slap these guys up
side of the head and see what we can catch
their attention. And I think it worked until the second half.

Speaker 3 (46:37):
Right John, No doubt, I was. I was. It was
one of the points. I'm not just saying this because
you said that. I mean, I'm not reacting because of that,
but it is. It was something I because we were
talking in the presspects like there's no rivalry here. Okay,
Brian dave Ball, Yeah he coached at Buffalo, but that's
not why these guys are having these these right up

(47:00):
from the opening kickoff, all this extracurricular stuff. Or Josh
Allen foolishly jamming his shoulder into the end zone that
was just so idiotic. I couldn't understand what he was thinking.
There a shoulder that is now bugging him, but that
happened when he hit the field hard. But my point
is Brian, in some ways, let's give him credit and

(47:22):
the coach, because I think he told these guys look again,
we're going to be competitive in this game. We're going
to do we got to pull out all the stuff here,
irritate them, get in their face, sure, talk, push, whatever
it takes. I don't like that and put You know,
we don't want that in sports. You know, you want
to say that you want it clean and pure and whatever,
but guess what, it's football and nasty. And if you

(47:46):
add a little level of nastiness for the sake of
throwing another team offense game and it works, Yeah, I'm
sure Brian in some ways felt Okay, we did, we
did the right thing, and we almost won.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
I think patrons and would hope that their team might
still have some of that left in him for this
Sunday if if it gets down to that. Vic, thank
you so much for taking the time this afternoon. You
gave us a big portion of your day and really
appreciate the the insight that you always bring, especially from
the Buffalo perspective. And I'll make sure that the clam
chatter is warm for you when you get here.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
Always a pleasure chat, all right.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Thank you so much. Vic Carucci, who you can find
him at Vic Carucci C A R U C C
I is how you spelled his last name. Find him
there on X In fact, you can read his columns
and I don't believe it's behind a payhall at all.
At w g r Z dot com, which is Channel
two in Buffalo, but that's where he does a lot
of his work as well. And then of course we

(48:41):
mentioned the new website that he's a part of, which
is really cool. Thirty third the thirty third Team t
h E three three R D T E A M
the thirty third Team dot com pretty cool because they're
getting a bunch of really good writers from around the
NFL to offer their thoughts, and I think it seems
to be a really nice compilation of experience in the
NFL that you don't have to, at least right now,

(49:03):
find behind a paywall. Karen gar Reagan of mass Live
and also Russell Baxter will join us here shortly. In
the meantime, phones are open eight five five, PATS five hundred,
web radio at Patriots dot com, on email at JR Broadcaster.
That's the Twitter handle or the X post or whatever
the hell they call it. I can't every week I

(49:26):
talk about this and I realized I probably sound like
I'm eighty five in this regard. But I truly don't
know what Elon Musk wants us to call it anymore.
What do we call it? So X my ex address here,
you go something like that, maybe I don't know. At
JR Broadcaster or you can post on my Facebook page.
All right, Sean, and Vancouver has been kind enough to
hang on for a long long time. Hey Sean, you're

(49:47):
in the playbook.

Speaker 8 (49:49):
Hey John, how's it going good? I was in Vegas
on Sunday.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
Was even though it was a loss.

Speaker 8 (49:54):
And I didn't really anticipate much more, I had a
great time. I saw thylaw On on Saturday.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
And how was that? That was good?

Speaker 5 (50:04):
Right?

Speaker 3 (50:04):
That was amazing?

Speaker 7 (50:05):
He was so good he was.

Speaker 8 (50:06):
He was like there for three hours, you know, just
signing anything anybody would give to him.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Yeah. Like he he's very engaging. He is very engaging,
and you know the best part about it is is
that I think he appreciates what he once had and
now that he's you know, still superstar level because he's
an NFL Hall of Famer, he's actually trying to give
back a little bit and promote the sport and everything.
I think that's very cool, and you know, I would

(50:31):
tend to say that, you know, with age comes wisdom.
Uh and and I think in his case, uh, it's
that tenfold. Yeah.

Speaker 8 (50:38):
And earlier that morning, I wished Jules a good shobist.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
So that was nice, nice, nice, well done.

Speaker 5 (50:46):
No, it was, it was.

Speaker 8 (50:47):
It was fun and you know, it was not like
the crazy Raiders fans you'd expect from back in Oakland.

Speaker 7 (50:53):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (50:53):
Everyone was really friendly and fun. And uh, yeah, I
really I'll go again for sure.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
Good well and hopefully you'll get a little bit better
result overall. Although I got to tell you I still
thought it. Yeah, I mean I still oh, it may
be and I would imagine it probably will, because I
don't think they're getting back there this year, that's for sure.
But no, no, you know, in your dreams maybe, But
I would say, look, yeah, I know, and I think

(51:23):
and and really, I'll be honest with you, Sean. That's
that's the disappointing part about all this, because not so
much that we said all the Patriots are going to be,
you know, a contender. I think, you know, on the
plus side, we all hope that the Patriots would be
good enough to get back into the postseason. My prediction was.
I thought that actually win a game if they got
into the postseason. But they're not even going to sniff that.
And for the reasons that we've stated over the last

(51:44):
few weeks and we will probably continue to state over
the course of the next few weeks, this this roster
has a ton of rebuilding that it still needs to
go through, and some of that may start within the
coaching st as well. And look, I'm not going to
sit here and tell you that Bill Belichick should be

(52:05):
fired and replaced. We've talked about it. We talked about what,
you know, should happen, what could happen, what might happen.
But if if you're really gonna pin me down to it,
I would say, no, I don't think it's going to happen.
I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, because I
think Bill realizes that this is going south and has
gone south on him in a hurry, and so, knowing

(52:25):
that the competitor that he is and has been and
undoubtedly will continue to be until the day he leaves
planet Earth, I think he wants a chance to get
this thing back on the right track before he departs Foxborough.
And so I think he knows that he's going to
require some help now, whether that means he's willing to
give up you know, his general manager duties or look

(52:47):
for you know, player personnel stuff or whatever. I mean.
Our local media here, Sean, just so you know, they're
all saying, you know, there's no way Bill would take
a lesser role. That you know, it's kind of like
it's my way or the highway. And maybe that's the case,
but I would tell you that nothing ventured, nothing gained.
You have to ask the question. And I think mister Kraft,
being the smart businessman that he has been for a

(53:10):
number of years, when you buy a team for one
hundred and seventy million and you turn it into a
seven billion with a B dollar enterprise over the thirty
years that you've owned the team, then you obviously have
some sort of acumen for turning things around and building.
And I think he still is capable of doing that here.
And I think, you know, if a push comes to shove,
these guys can have a meeting of the minds and

(53:32):
decide what is the best way for us to step
forward here, And the best way to step forward here
is to make this in all hands on deck everybody's available,
Let's go out and do the best job we can
to turn this around so that way we all feel
better about ourselves before we sail off into the sunset.
And I think that's the natural reaction that should be
coming from him. It's just going to take a hell

(53:54):
of a lot longer than we thought that. The analogy
that I will use here is if we went to
the the top of the let's say, the top of
the Prew Center in downtown Boston, all right, and we
threw a right pumpkin over the edge of the top
of the Prew Center, right, okay, and you know it's
going to smash into a million pieces right down at
the bottom and hopefully not hurt somebody along the way. Yeah,

(54:17):
it's it's it's just taking Uh, it's taken this franchise
since Tom Brady left. It's taking this franchise the better
part of three four years for the pumpkin to reach
the street. Yeah, you understand the analogy. It's taken us.
It taken us longer to realize that, hey, this team
hasn't bottomed out yet. And guess what we're there now,

(54:38):
say hello to the bottom.

Speaker 8 (54:41):
Well, yeah, speaking of bottom, like I could see this team.
Let's say they finish at five and twelve, right and
it's late January.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
I think you're being generous at five right now, to
be honest with you.

Speaker 8 (54:52):
Well maybe, but if it's five or three, it doesn't matter.
But the thing is, I could see Robert Kraft not
wanting to actually fire Bill Pelichick and your scenario think, hey,
look we need to do something in person, nap. You
can't have these decisions to continue.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
We're going to bring in a GM.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Probably the ninety eight percent.

Speaker 8 (55:11):
Belicheck was so well, you know, I can't really deal
with that.

Speaker 7 (55:14):
That's not happening.

Speaker 8 (55:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, right, so that that's probably what's
going to happen. But you know, when you're you're talking
to Evan earlier about a quick start, you know, getting
the ball, it doesn't it doesn't work if they don't score.
So they have to do something different. If they want
to take that approach, you've got to do something like
this is what I could see, Like first down, the
first play of the game. Okay, you have Malie Cunningham

(55:38):
wide right, and you have Pop Douglas running a crosser,
and you have a Thorton going deep. They throw backwards
pass to Maleak if he's open to run and.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
It's intercepted by Chaine Jones and run back for a touchdown.

Speaker 8 (55:53):
Well channeler Jones is in jail, so that's.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Yeah, that's also true. How about that story. Huh oh
my god, talk about a guy that's had the wheels
come flying off. I feel badly hit.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
The head too much.

Speaker 6 (56:03):
Yeah, really hurt.

Speaker 8 (56:06):
Something like some type of mental illness they start with,
which it is possible. I don't know if he's been
diagnosed with it, but he might have some kind of
dementia disorder O reason like fivefoler or something like that.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
Yeah, I'm just guessing.

Speaker 8 (56:20):
Sad it's said, it is said, and Vig Coocher is
pointing out, you know that the twenty two So this
team is not good. That's why you've seen all these
holes and and not not much cauld change.

Speaker 7 (56:31):
You just have to restart.

Speaker 8 (56:32):
So my prediction for the game, I'm going to go
with Bill's twenty seven Patriots ten.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
I think that's probably pretty accurate. Sean, thank you for
the phone call. I was as disgusted with any single
play that I've seen this entire season. On the safety
of Mac Jones at the end of that game to
seal it for the Raiders because Mike is sicky and
oh good lord low at the at the right right

(57:01):
tackle and right they got they were whipped. And my
grandfather used to tell me this one, you got whipped
so like a rented mule. They were both whipped like
rented mules on the right side, and Crosby was almost unimpeded,
and it was just so embarrassingly bad. I don't have
any other explanation for it, but it was not professional

(57:22):
caliber football, and and that's that's why I'm kind of like, wow,
that's just like that would be like if if I
had I had to block Max Crosby. You know, I'm
gonna have my big red cape out there, just like
the you know, the the Matador with the but with
the bulls, and I'm gonna just wave it and say,
olay go, because that's basically what happened. Todd and gardnern

(57:47):
North Carolina. Oh in Garner, North Carolina. Okay, that's cool. Hey, Todd,
how's it going.

Speaker 5 (57:53):
Well? I haven't called you in a while.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Does I tell you something, Well, it tells me that
you don't have much to say, have a lot to say.

Speaker 5 (58:00):
I just been not using that kind of language with
a guy that I could consider a virtual friend.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
Drawn up with you.

Speaker 5 (58:07):
You're thatrop landing spot that the Patriots are totally lost on.
Yeh okay, Bill's go by, mister kraft S. Even on
on Weei they've got the little article they're discussing it.
They don't think Robert got the attention, the detail that
he used to be able to cover this team too.
So I think we just need to let the seniors

(58:28):
get in space because he said they couldn't be on
the planet. Otherwise they're going to be involved and take
a flight, because I think that this team just needs
an absolutely total rebuild. It's been instead of a year
too late, it's been about three years or a year early,
it's been three years too late. And we're not doing
what's best for the team. We haven't been doing it

(58:48):
since Brady left. And that's where we're at. And yeah,
the pumpkin was falling, but you don't you realize it
was bouncing off the walls. It's been in sideways. It
was a horror show, and it's been and Brady's gone.
There's always been one or two plays that you're looking at, going,
dear lord, what happened there? Like I said last year
in rab Pound, it was the you know, the end

(59:10):
of the game.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
I'm actually thankful, Todd. I'm actually thankful that we finally
uppear to have hit rock bottom because it's taken us
a while to get there, and and and now you
can actually start thinking about building back to the top.
But you can't really build to the top until you
hit bottom. And that's what the last three years really
have been. You're you're just sort of trying to maintain
and hold on to and grab on to any little

(59:32):
sliver of respectability that you once had when you were
dominating the NFL for twenty years, when you clearly know
that you don't have it any longer. But now the
pumpkin smash, so you gotta go.

Speaker 5 (59:45):
You just stated the problem. They kept going on, They
kept trying to do this stuff. They never cleaned house,
they never got it reset, and even right now it's
not reset.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
That's correct, that's right.

Speaker 5 (59:56):
I would love to see Jonathan Kraft come up and say,
we got to feel the bandage off of this. We
got to do it now, we gotta let the team know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Let the players know.

Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
We gotta find out if we've got anything here.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
Agreed, Just say, you know, Bill, goodbye.

Speaker 5 (01:00:12):
We're gonna put Mail or O'Brien. I prefer ol Brian
because he's offensive as interim the head coach. Let's reset this,
let's see what Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
I just I understand your thought process Todd here, and
I think it makes sense in practical terms. But I
just don't see the Crafts doing that to Bill. I
just don't. I don't see it. I know the relationship, well, okay, maybe,
but maybe there maybe this is their way of thinking,
you know, Bill for six super Bowl trophies. I don't know.
They're gonna give him a chance, and they're gonna give

(01:00:42):
him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to
trying to correct things. Now they may have parameters.

Speaker 7 (01:00:48):
Sixteen.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Again, I'm you're making You're making plenty of sense, Todd.
But I'm just telling you the reality of it is
is that they don't look at it like that. That
the man has built up enough chits in the bank
to where he really can't do anything wrong even when
everything has gone wrong. So he's gonna get a chance.
He will get a chance to fix this, even with parameters.

(01:01:14):
It's up to Bill to take the parameters and accept them.

Speaker 5 (01:01:18):
Say that again, don't you think that the crafts have
enough enough cache enough.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
Yes, yes they do, they do, but they're not. But
I'm gonna tell you they're not gonna use it. They won't,
they won't use it. I'll be I'll be, I'll be
in the front of the line with my surprise, you know,
mask on and all that kind of stuff. Hey, surprise
if they let him go before this season is over.
In fact, I'll be surprised they let him go at all.
I think they're gonna give him every opportunity, you know,

(01:01:46):
to throw a change up and invite some help in
because they know he doesn't want to go out like
this in New England. Could he go and get another
job somewhere else. I think that's the only way, the
only way that this up, you know, non amicably or
not in a non retirement sense, where if he goes
to say the Chargers or you know some or the

(01:02:09):
Cowboys I've heard that room or out there or anything else,
you know, and if he has a chance to control
personnel as well as coach anywhere he goes, then then
I could see them agreeing to part ways at the
end of the year. Short of that, short of having
that opportunity to go because Bill said he wants to
coach for a three or four years. He'd like to
coach age seventy five and and so if that's the case,

(01:02:32):
then if it's going to be in New England, Bill,
we got to do something to fix this problem. And
we're going to bring in somebody from the outside to
help you do it. And if he doesn't like that,
then I could see everything unfolding. But they're going to
give him every opportunity to take that ball and run
with it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:46):
But the longer he's here, the harder it is going
to be the transition away from him, because the more
it's gone, they can cut his family.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
I know, well that's fair, Okay, Now now you're you're
talking about something completely different. They again, one of those
conditions for him sticking around may very will be we
got we gotta change it up here. And it's fair
to point fingers at guys like, you know, Troy Brown,
for all that we love him and all that he's done,
you know, for this franchise over the years. Uh, the

(01:03:16):
wide receiving corp is still a complete mess. We're seeing
guys that are not disciplined on the roots. We're seeing
a lot of things. So he'd be one. You'd have
to look at. Adrian Clem. You know, he just came in.
But my god, is the offensive line and absolute disaster.
That's another one that you'd have to look at. Yeah,
his own sons, Yeah, Bill O'Brien. He deserves a lot
of criticism because we all thought he would be the

(01:03:37):
panacea to curring mac Jones's ailment, and it's gotten worse.
Although I would tell you that what is indirectly led
to that has been the poor performance of the offensive line.
That's that's.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
Yeah, year, that's obvious.

Speaker 5 (01:03:52):
You watch him in the pocket. He's scared, man.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
I know, I know, I know, I know, but you
know I'm gonna let you go with that.

Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
Scared too. Let's just do something.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
We got to do something. We're in agreement, Todd. It's
good to hear from you. We always have to be
ready to do something. All right, You want to hit
his You got Russell's open there. Faith stand by Russell.
Faith is learning the routine. You got it. We'll find out.

Speaker 8 (01:04:24):
Stop from drinking.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
It's time to go around the NFL with football guru
Russell Baxters.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Now, what.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Name is Flounder on Patriots playbook? How about that Faith's
maiden voyage in the playbook today? And she's she's got
all the buttons punched? Hello, Russell, I.

Speaker 6 (01:04:45):
Don't know what you're so nervous about. I mean I
had total faith in her, right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Right, perfect name, right, perfect name. She's doing a bang
up joke about rock and roll on the show. Well,
we get talk about anything you want, Rose, look is Frankly,
I'm not sure football is working, so you know, right,
I don't know if it's rock and roll.

Speaker 6 (01:05:06):
What are the Smashing Pumpkins considered.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
Rock? I don't know how much of a roll, but
I would say rock? Sure?

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
Why not?

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
Yeah, absolutely heard that.

Speaker 6 (01:05:16):
I heard that Pumpkins analogy, and I wore you were
out of your gold.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
But stop me something.

Speaker 6 (01:05:26):
Want to find a drum roll?

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
But yeah, yeah, she's on the phone with somebody else
right now, so I guess you know people are giving
her congratulations everything. We're doing such a good job today. Yeah,
I know, right, So, I you know I got to start,
uh at least with with the Patriots here only because
we just got off the line with our good friend
Vic Carucci and uh, you know, and getting his take

(01:05:51):
on what he's seen, and obviously he is underscored really
kind of what we've all feared about in New England
when he looks at the old twenty two and he
looks at the film, he looks at all this stuff,
and he's one of those you know, all twenty two
geeks that you know, a lot of us like to
pretend we are, but really I only know two or
three people that are like. But he's, you know, he's like, man,
I've never seen it like this in New England. And
I'm kind of paraphrasing, there's a lot of holes. And

(01:06:14):
so when you're at one in five and you've got
a lot of football still to play, and you have
a lot of walking wounded, which the Patriots have, some
walking some not, and you're staring at Buffalo and Miami
back to back here and a shot you know, at
one in seven potentially going into this, how do you
get i mean, how do you take that next step forward?

Speaker 6 (01:06:37):
Well, it's rough to watch, and as long as you
and I have been doing this together, it's uncharted territory. Yeah,
and you really have to go back to some I mean, listen,
the Patriots has some competitive teams. Obviously, they were a
super Bowl team with Bill Poli Sells Pete Carroll had

(01:06:58):
him in the playoffs at least two times, ninety seven
to ninety eight. So this is we're going back a
while in terms of this team, and they're just you
think about the fact that this team is averaging twelve points.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
A game, which is crazy. That's, by the way, that's
not dead last in the league. That's next to least.

Speaker 6 (01:07:22):
I mean the Giants. The Giants has scored one less
point than the Patriots. And by the way, I will
remind people that the Giants have scored one more point
than the Dolphins did in Week three, and the Patriots
has scored two more.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
Points than the game. Yeah, I know right.

Speaker 6 (01:07:41):
I'll tell you a number that really jumped out, and
we'll get the Buffalo in the second. As far as
how that series has slipped, this is a team that's
always been very opportunistic. Last year it turned you know,
a lot of turnovers into or i should say take
away in the scores, little shaky you know, special teams,

(01:08:03):
and yet they had their own problems and special teams
as well. But we're six games into the season. The
New England Patriots are dead last in the league. Is
three takeaways.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
I mean, you know, that's that's you know, you can't
beat anybody when you're not taking the ball away. You
have to have you got to have the difference that
I've seen, the main difference that I've seen between this
Patriots defense and even the one last year. And I
think this Patriots defense is probably more talented overall than
the one that they played last year. But last year's
team took the ball away and it made them more competitive. Yeah,

(01:08:40):
they had.

Speaker 6 (01:08:41):
Thirty takeaways last year in seventeen games, they have three.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
Yeah, and six That should say a lot right there.

Speaker 6 (01:08:48):
We saw the Jets or four turnovers against Philadelphia on
Sunday alone. Yep, yeah, so and so and listen, you
could almost make them. In fact, you would make the
case that Matt Judon is not only your best defensive player,
he might be the best player on the roster. And
not having this huge Yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:09:10):
Mean, you can certainly make a case for the two
best players, you know, being gone from the defense with
Bill Judon and Christian Gonzales without.

Speaker 6 (01:09:18):
A doubt, yes, yeah, and Gonzales obviously in his rookie year.
But it's made a solid impact in just such a
short time. But this is when you're a team that
relies on defense like they do, and you don't have
those kind of players around, there's nothing really to flow
back on. And I'm not trying to be mister doom

(01:09:39):
and gloom and stuff like that, but if they're gonna,
if they're gonna pull this off the next couple of weeks,
and listen, you know, the Bills as disappointing as New
England is, the Bills are perplexing, okay, because they still have,
you know, kind of the issue with turnovers. Their defenses.

(01:10:01):
They gave up correctly if for one, they gave up
like four hundred and seventy four yards yeah to the
Jaguars in London.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Yeah, yeah, they did, they did.

Speaker 6 (01:10:09):
They almost put that John. They didn't score a point
until the fourth quarter against the Giants on Sunday night.
So which version of Buffalo shows up this week?

Speaker 3 (01:10:21):
Now?

Speaker 6 (01:10:21):
I know, you know, you know, it's actually an amazing set.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:10:26):
Bill Belichick from two thousand to twenty nineteen went thirty
five and five against the Bills since twenty twenty, including
the playoffs, He's one and six.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
That's yeah, right, that's.

Speaker 6 (01:10:41):
And the Bills have had few problems scoring points, with
the exception of that bad weather game in Buffalo, which
was you know, the wind and all that a couple
of years ago. But I mean it's been Listen, they've
kind of taken the mantle for him. But then again,
if you look, it's a Bills and their own inability

(01:11:02):
to hang on to the football, and they're great to
taken it away, but they're still sloppy. And it's more
than just Josh Allen, right, but for lack of a
better word, Jound there's almost like the Devil may care
attitude when the Bills play, and they can put a
lot of points on the board, and then they can
also kind of, you know, do their best to give
it a give away a game. And you know, I'm

(01:11:26):
not one who complains much about officiating because I've just
accepted the fact that it's not very good around the
league and it hasn't been for a number of years,
and you know, until we get full time officials, I
think that's just how it's going to be.

Speaker 1 (01:11:38):
Yeah, And I would tell you as far as that
part is concerned. Look, I think replay has really done
a lot to add to that problem because they're under
the pressure to get it right and so they hesitate.
And frankly, I think all of us as football connoisseurs
are okay with human error, but when we really try
to micro manage it and we're looking at it to

(01:11:59):
the nth degree, and oh, I think there's a blade
of grass there that the way, you know, that's ridiculous.
We just need to learn to move on. And I
think you know, the NFL has been its own worst enemy.
Where that where the poor officiating concern?

Speaker 6 (01:12:10):
Yeah, I agree, And and the point I was going
to bring you is the Darren Waller play at the
end of the game last Sunday night. That hard to
believe there's no call there, Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm
not saying that Giants would have punched it in after that,
and believing the Giants Giants offense is five touchdowns in
six games, and four of them came in one game.

(01:12:33):
So even if they would have had another opportunity, and
I'm not saying they would have gotten the ball in,
but you know, the Bills, the Bills are a team
to me that are like playing with fire.

Speaker 3 (01:12:47):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:12:47):
They they did a number one the Dolphins and then
followed it up by laying out let's see what would
be I'm trying to think of an English breakfast eggs
and beans, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
It's bangers and match. I can't that too, but but yeah,
it's the traditional uh you know English breakfast, right, yeah,
except except don't don't don't try the blood pulling. It's nasty.

Speaker 6 (01:13:16):
The bills have just been Listen, anything can happen in
this league. We saw trust me recent line. I have
a piece coming that later. The offenses took last week off. Yeah,
I'm around the league, John. You know there were thirty
teams that played last week. Do you have any idea
how I may even scored thirty points?

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
None?

Speaker 9 (01:13:36):
Two?

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Okay, it was close?

Speaker 6 (01:13:39):
Two?

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:13:41):
Only three of the thirty are you for this? Only
three of the thirty teams scored more than two offensive sections.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
See now that's that's to me, that that's crazy, that
that's nuts. And so you know, as offensive minded as
the game has really become over the last you know,
decade plus, here, yeah, we're still seeing a perfect example
of how cyclical the sport really is. And I begin
to understand a little bit more to get I think,
to the larger point here, especially where the Patriots are concerned,

(01:14:09):
begin to understand why Bill thinks. Bill Belichick thinks the
way he does. You know that we're gonna build up
defense because defense is where it's gonna be. This is
where we're gonna win football games. And I had this
argument with Evan Lazarre, you know, to start the show today,
and he grudgingly started to give in to me a
little bit, because the Patriots always defer, and they start
the game with their defense on the field. But the
problem is is their defense can't get off the field,

(01:14:31):
and the team invariably gives up a six seven, eight
minute drive to start the game and they dig themselves
a hole from which they can never climb out of.

Speaker 6 (01:14:39):
Well, they deferred themselves to the tune of thirty nine
to six.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
In the first quarter of this year.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
Thirty nine to six three in the first half. Wait
say the first half score again?

Speaker 3 (01:14:52):
What was it?

Speaker 6 (01:14:53):
Ninety eight to thirty three?

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Okay, all right, So anybody who says the Patriots should
defer early has their head up their keyster because that's
that's ridiculous, and you keep expecting it to do better.
If that's not an example of insanity, I don't know
what else would be. That's football insanity right there. That's
a perfect example of it. And the numbers bear it out.

Speaker 6 (01:15:19):
I mean, their offensives generated eight touchdowns in six games.
I don't look at total touchdowns.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
I look at the offensive I happen to have heard
a promo on the Patriots the flagship radio station this week,
and of course there's you know, our good friend Bob
Soci who calls the games of the radio in the background,
given the call, that call is from last year, why
because there haven't been that many touchdown calls this year?

(01:15:46):
How crazy is that?

Speaker 6 (01:15:47):
Eighth offensive touchdowns? And to make matters worse? Okay, for
a team last year that relied on the return game
and then when I say returns, that interception, fumble returns,
special teams, all that stuff. I mean, keep in mind
that last year as I scroll through my little notes here.

Speaker 1 (01:16:10):
Yeah, that I love when you scroll the.

Speaker 6 (01:16:14):
Patriots often last year scored thirty one touchdown offensive They
had eight returns for touchdowns eight returns eight returns including
five interception returns for touchdowns. Okay, they have three takeaways
and they have zippo zip return touchdowns this year.

Speaker 1 (01:16:36):
Okay, so that's the difference between eight and nine a
year ago, and God only knows what this year right.

Speaker 6 (01:16:44):
Right, Well, if they are relying on a certain style
and unfortunately they have a guy who creates chaos in
the backfield ye backs, strips, et cetera, et cetera, and
they don't want him right now, that's making the task
obviously the bat in the charterer. So, like I said,

(01:17:07):
it's going to be an interesting stretch for him in
the next couple of weeks with Buffalo and Miami. They've
already know in Miami one.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
So yeah, yeah, we shall see.

Speaker 6 (01:17:18):
Like I said, this is uncharted territory for for quite
a while.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
No kaid to go back to nineteen ninety two.

Speaker 6 (01:17:25):
I mean we're probably talking Lady'd like the Bloodstoe era.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
Yeah, well pre bread So era. As far as I'm concerned,
we're talking I think maybe even the uh oh god,
we're talking Rod Rushed era and coaching Well, yes.

Speaker 6 (01:17:41):
Right, and I always and I almost think about now
that I'm going to go even further back to like
nineteen eighty one, when they won like only two games
and then wind up taking Tenants.

Speaker 3 (01:17:58):
In the first pick.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
Yeah, yeah, right draft.

Speaker 3 (01:18:00):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Why I point that out my former college classmate, by the.

Speaker 6 (01:18:05):
Way, Oh really, well, you know what I what I
remember most about that year is the Baltimore Colts also
finished two and fourteen. And correct me if I'm wrong.
They began the season by beating the Patriots. They then
turned around and lost fourteen straight games and then ended

(01:18:29):
the season by beating the Patriots. So but I mean,
obviously we're going way way back with this team, which
I ought to tell you how you know, you know
what this franchise accomplished over a twenty year period, No question,
there are there is a fan base out there and

(01:18:50):
followers of the team who don't know the Patriots other
than being a winning franchise.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
Yeah, in the last three years. Yeah, there's absolutely an
entire you know, there's a couple of generations with the
fans that don't know anything.

Speaker 3 (01:19:04):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
I've heard people, you know, call this show and call
Patriots unfieldered here and respond you know, to mail bag
stuff here on the website and everything else, you know
here in their twenties and they don't know anything other
than Patriots and super Bowl championships, so they're not even
sure how to react. And you know, unfortunately that's what
these Patriots were when I first started covering the NFL.
They were sad sacks. And you know, it took you know,

(01:19:29):
you know, mister crafts purchase and and one, you know,
Bill Parcells to kind of be you know, change that
thought process around. And then we all know what the
history has been in the twenty two, twenty three, twenty
four years now since you know, Bill Belichick arrived. It's
it's certainly been different. And you just got to remember
what it took to get you to where you were dominant.

(01:19:49):
And you've got to make sure that you're willing to
accept that, because I've thought for a long time there
was not a willingness to accept that you were lousy.
And you've got to accept that we're lousy and we
need help and we need different people to chime in
here because Bill's way or the highway just isn't working.
So another conversation for the day. Let me hit on

(01:20:10):
a couple of other games here really quickly, a couple
of games that I'm looking forward to to kind of
watching and seeing just to find out if they're for
real or not. I'll lead off with what is going
to be tomorrow night, Jaguars playing at the Saints. I'm
really intrigued by the Jags and if their quarterback is healthy,
I you know, I think Jacksonville could be a real
sleeper for the rest of the year. And then the

(01:20:30):
other one I think that could be damn exciting is
Detroit playing at Baltimore. And if there is a team
that you know, New England fans should root for, it
has to be Detroit for the rest of the year
because if they win their six and one and they
haven't been six and one in the Super Bowl era.
I know you knew that.

Speaker 6 (01:20:53):
Listen if you want.

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
And listen.

Speaker 6 (01:20:57):
They got, you know, not off Kansas City, and a
lot of people focused on the aspect of no Chris
Jones and no Travis Kelsey. But if you watch that
game and you watch the physical nature of the Lions,
and then of course next week at home they kind
of squandered the lead and lost to Seattle and overtime,
Well they haven't long since, and you know, next to

(01:21:18):
Kingston Sydney, they're the second hottest team in the league,
and they're much different than they were to start last
year when their defense was an absolute sieve. They are
they can run the ball and listen. Defensively, they were
bad for a couple of years. But guess who's leading
the league in run defense right now?

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
Run defense.

Speaker 6 (01:21:43):
Yeah, and this is something tom Jackson and I always
used to look at. Now I find this interesting. And
this is by two yards, okay, So you know, take
it for what it's worth. Tommy and I would talk
about the fact that teams that were ranked the ten
right both offensively and defensively in terms of total yard

(01:22:07):
In other words, Tillillyard's game in total yards were Okay,
there are only four teams that can claim that in
the league right now. There's a Go forty nine Ers,
the Philadelphia Eagles, the Kansas City Chiefs and gold the

(01:22:27):
Detroit Line.

Speaker 5 (01:22:28):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
Wow, okay worked for me.

Speaker 6 (01:22:34):
So this is not this is not fluky. This is
a team that finished eight and two a year ago
after a one in six start. So eight and two
and five and one that has thirteen.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
And thirteen and three pretty good.

Speaker 6 (01:22:50):
And quite and quite a run. And so I mean
they went into Kansas City and he defending Super Bowl
champions and went into Tampa and beat the first place team. Okay,
so this ought to be. Now here's the over under
this week when it comes to the Lions and the Ravens.
How many times will the network show Justin Tucker's field

(01:23:15):
goal from a couple of years ago, which set the
NFL record in Detroit, the one that bounced off the
uh not the crossbar but.

Speaker 3 (01:23:22):
The the other bar.

Speaker 6 (01:23:24):
Yeah, yeah, went through and the Lions lost the heartbreak. Yeah,
the under on that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
Kick game show two or three at least, right, let's
say we'll say two and a half.

Speaker 3 (01:23:35):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:23:36):
Okay, Yeah, I like that. A couple of great games
coming up, and then, of course I think we'd be
remiss if we didn't mention the fact on Sunday night,
the Dolphins are playing at the Eagles, you know, and
you know Miami. You know, we've already know that. You know,
it's one of the quickest teams that we've seen, fastest
teams we've seen out there. The Eagles have you know,
proved mortal and they're the cause for celebration, I think

(01:23:57):
from the remaining members of the seventy two Dolphin celebrating
because they finally got beat But hey, this could be
a huge bounce back opportunity for Philly on Sunday Night.

Speaker 6 (01:24:08):
If you like wide receivers, Sunday Night is the place
to be in terms of the talent. Tyree Killed and
Jalen Waddle, Devonte Smith and AJ Brown.

Speaker 3 (01:24:20):
Right yeah, Tyree Kill and AJ.

Speaker 6 (01:24:22):
Brown are one to two in the league right now
in some self receiving guards.

Speaker 1 (01:24:26):
Yeah, you like receivers or you're not used to seeing
good receivers, especially if you're a Patriots fan. You want
to watch Sunday Night's game.

Speaker 6 (01:24:33):
Yeah, and I got something coming out on this later,
which I's always interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
Okay, but oops, Yeah, what happened?

Speaker 3 (01:24:47):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
I think when you were trying to hit that one button,
it hung up on the other one. Okay, yeah, yeah,
try it. Faith gets a pass because Faith is taking
over from marine to so kind of you know, hey,
it is what it is this time. It wasn't Russell's
phone that broke up normally that's kind of the situation there. Yeah,

(01:25:10):
see if you can get him back on, you know,
and we'll we'll at least finish up our chit chat
here and then Karen Griegan from Mass Live. She's going
to join us here momentarily. I think part of the
problem on that one is because the line that you
were using faith, I'm not sure that's an open line.
So we only have a few open lines here, so
that's why, you know, sometimes it happens like that. So

(01:25:31):
we'll you know, we'll get that done. In the meantime.
Let me remind you Patriots fans, if you want to
see Toyota's best offers, including those not seen on TV,
go to buy a Toyota dot Com is Toyota's official
website for deals from the official vehicle of the New
England Patriots, Toyota. Let's go places, all right, That one
was on faith. She's okay, she's got you back, I

(01:25:52):
think now.

Speaker 6 (01:25:53):
I told her, I told her I had faith in her.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
Yeah, well, of course naturally, right, random, Okay.

Speaker 6 (01:26:00):
The Dolphins played, uh, the Patriots in Week two, and
the Patriots quarterback was.

Speaker 1 (01:26:08):
Back in week two.

Speaker 6 (01:26:10):
Yeah, Patriots quarterback with Mac Shoon.

Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
Oh yeah, okay, right, okay, yeah, So.

Speaker 6 (01:26:16):
Last week they played the Panthers, spot at them fourteen
and then beat them by twenty one.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:26:23):
Panther's quarterback was Bryce.

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
Young, Ryce young. Yeah. Right.

Speaker 6 (01:26:27):
This week, the Eagles quarterback is jal So, a team
that has a former University of Alabama quarterback already in Tua. Yeah,
we'll be facing its third.

Speaker 1 (01:26:42):
Former Alabama quarterback.

Speaker 6 (01:26:44):
Yeah, in seven guineas.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
Yeah, that's that means that means that, you know, roll tide.
I guess right, roll tide.

Speaker 6 (01:26:53):
Apparently apparently the Patriots don't have Georgia on their minds.
They have Alabama.

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):
Have Alabama? Yeah, home Alabama? Right, Okay, all right, Russell,
I thank you as always for the time and for
the catch up and the ability to you know, make
some sense with some numbers that you know. Uh, it
may not make me feel better, but it leads me
makes me feel like I'm not going crazy here because
things obviously have stirred in a little bit of a

(01:27:18):
different direction, and hey, we just have to kind of
let this thing play out and see how it goes.
I would suggest to you that I'd be surprised if
we saw anything definitive happen with this New England team
before the end of the year. What is your thought
on that on that concern, especially if things continue to
go south.

Speaker 6 (01:27:37):
Because the better organizations do not make knee jerk reaction
and all around league. You know, you have certain fame
bases and certain people who covered Limbin, and they're so
anxious when things go bad for a couple of years
to want to pull the plugg Yeah, and that's what
happens with New England.

Speaker 3 (01:27:58):
Yeah, okay, you go back to Pittsburgh.

Speaker 6 (01:28:01):
You know Bill Cower was losing AFC title games year
after year and losing him at home. They got to
the super Bowl against the Cowboys finally in the awe,
and then he went to a little drought, but they
stuck with him and eventually he rewarded them with a
super Bowl title. Okay, okay, I heard what you said.

(01:28:24):
I mean, I know Todd is you know, Todd is
ready to hire Bill Belichick to do whatever you want
them to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but you have to
give him the chance. You can't take twenty years of
equity and nine super Bowl appearances and then just jump ship.

(01:28:45):
Yeah because of maybe three bad years and foe.

Speaker 3 (01:28:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:50):
No matter, how, no matter how much you know your
your your customers are clamoring for a change.

Speaker 6 (01:28:56):
Well, you know, I don't see the customers calling play.
I don't see the customers catching passes, which I wish
Devonte Porker would have done last year. Right, Okay, I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
I'm glad you saw that too, because he doesn't think
he doesn't think it was catchable.

Speaker 6 (01:29:14):
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 8 (01:29:15):
I know, I know.

Speaker 6 (01:29:16):
I'm not going to say I could have called it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:18):
I mean, but in the hands where Spoty get hit, right,
I don't.

Speaker 6 (01:29:22):
I think that was one of the things that was
so deflating about last week's loss. That Mac Jones threw
a perfect pat literally perfect past.

Speaker 1 (01:29:32):
One of the best throwers he's had all year. Yes,
correct field.

Speaker 6 (01:29:35):
Goal range, and then one play later he gets.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
Backed for safety and it's all over.

Speaker 6 (01:29:39):
Yeah, we talked about uh exaxt swing. I mean, that's,
lack of a better word, almost like the five point swing,
no question, you know, because let's say he gets down
there and okay, maybe they missed a field goal, but
at least they're in position.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
Yeah, fraud correct and yet and.

Speaker 6 (01:29:56):
Then you turn around and then Crosby winds up sacking that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Yeah, I'm being crossby. Okay, now you're showing your age.

Speaker 7 (01:30:08):
Got hurt.

Speaker 1 (01:30:08):
I got hit Oh yeah, more than one. Oh, we're
full of them today. I love it. But thanks, buddy.
Good to talk to you. As always, I'll check in
with you very very soon.

Speaker 6 (01:30:21):
All right, let's believe thet.

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
Hopefully hopefully Russell Baxter at Backs football Guru on X
is where you'll find him there, all right. Karen Krigian
from Mass Lives coming up in the meantime, Eldred, you're
in Charlotte today? Is Eldred still there? Eldred may not
be there?

Speaker 3 (01:30:43):
All right?

Speaker 1 (01:30:43):
I'm gonna put Eldred on hold just the event that
he is unloading his truck. Patty and Patty, Patty, what's happening?

Speaker 3 (01:30:57):
Not too much?

Speaker 4 (01:30:58):
Driving a class?

Speaker 1 (01:30:59):
Okay?

Speaker 6 (01:31:00):
Kay?

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
Well of course you driving to class? Are you teaching
or taking?

Speaker 7 (01:31:06):
Oh no, I'm I'm I'm a student. Wow?

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
And what do you take?

Speaker 9 (01:31:10):
What are you?

Speaker 3 (01:31:11):
What?

Speaker 1 (01:31:11):
Are you a student of.

Speaker 4 (01:31:14):
HCAC and Refrigeration?

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
Okay, Well that's good to know because when you get
into that and you start doing that, people don't want
to know that you know what the hell you're doing.

Speaker 4 (01:31:24):
Right, I'm looking to get my license so so I
can do it legit.

Speaker 1 (01:31:29):
Good for you, Good for you. Go get them study hard, yes, sir,
I always do.

Speaker 5 (01:31:36):
So.

Speaker 6 (01:31:37):
I had a question.

Speaker 4 (01:31:37):
I wanted to post to you, John. I posed this
to Catch twenty two last week and been busy the
last couple of days of work.

Speaker 6 (01:31:45):
I was hoping to pose it to.

Speaker 4 (01:31:46):
See you guys do and hopefully I'll get a chance to.
But just for poops and giggles, Let's say the Patriots
who end up with a top five six this year,
in your opinion, do you think they should take a quarter.

Speaker 1 (01:32:04):
Yob all right, your phone call has broken up. I
think I understood most of that, Patty, and you know, frankly,
I think would be a good idea to ask this
person that very very question. Karen Krigan from Mass Live
joining us here in the playbook. Karen, I think that

(01:32:24):
question was let's say the Paperots get that top five pick,
should they be thinking quarterback up high? Are there just
too many holes that this team needs to fill for,
you know, quarterback to really even be a thought. I
would tell you that I would lean other than quarterback,
but that's just me because I don't think they're going
to get the two guys that really might benefit them
the most. That would be having one of the top

(01:32:45):
couple of picks and being able to get either Caleb Williams,
who I'm not sure is all of that. I've seen
him play in Drake May from North Carolina. What do
you think?

Speaker 9 (01:32:55):
Yeah, well, I think if they're not in the one
or two holes, god, they could sure use a left tackle.
They could sure use a receiver.

Speaker 3 (01:33:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:33:06):
And there's a couple of good ones in the draft
coming out.

Speaker 1 (01:33:09):
Yep, I've heard already. My boy mel Kiper has already
said there are like six or seven guys in like
the top, you know, fifty or sixty players maybe the
first couple of rounds in terms of tackles that'll be available,
that are high caliber guys. And I'm like, Okay, sign
mem for any one of them, Sign mam for two
of them.

Speaker 5 (01:33:28):
Yeah, I'm I'm with you.

Speaker 9 (01:33:30):
But they're like a day laid a dollar short. They
should have done that this past draft. Instead, they drafted
every guard known to man.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
Yep, they certainly did all right, So before we jump
way ahead on that, because clearly there's a lot of
football still to be played. Even though I know that,
you know, it seems like all the questions that I've
taken have all been about, wait, what do you think
we got to do about the draft? I'm like, guys,
it's freaking October, you know. I mean, I realized that
we haven't been in this position for thirty years. But
at the same time, you know, it's a long, long season,

(01:34:02):
you know, based on your conversations with these guys, you know,
and in listening to the coach, and the players are
getting the same thing, you know, week after week after week.
Are they Is it even possible that you might see
them turn around and give us I don't want to
say false hope, but maybe provide a little momentum to

(01:34:23):
to somewhere. I mean, because it seems like I know
most people I talk to. In fact, I talked to
a couple of friends today, Karen who said, you know,
I don't even know why they want to win another
game this year, because you know, even if they win
another game, but it's only going to postpone the inevitable.
And I'm like, I just don't know that that's the
attitude that anybody who plays professional sports really entertains. I mean,
unless you've been in a locker room and you've been

(01:34:43):
in a huddle and you've gotten you know, hit over
the head with somebody else's you know, forearm, I'm not
sure that anybody else other than people on the outside
think that way.

Speaker 9 (01:34:54):
Yeah. I don't think that's the attitude now for sure.
But you know, you got Buffalo and Miami back to back,
so you could conceivably be one in seven at the
midway point. And then you know, I think human nature

(01:35:15):
kind of takes its course and while they you know,
the players will say all the right things, some of them,
you know, who were in the final years of their deals.
You know, you might these guys might start thinking individually
as opposed to collectively as a team. By that, I mean,
you know, do I want to get hurt and hurt

(01:35:38):
my chances to get a big contract? You know, so
that these are like external factors that I think come
into play, John, Do I think it's right now? No,
But if the losing continues, those type of things I
think will enter the picture.

Speaker 1 (01:35:56):
Do you see any scenario where mister Kraft would have
to make a decision on Bill Belichick as the head
coach of this team before the end of the year.

Speaker 9 (01:36:08):
Wow, I've always I've always said no on that. I
think I don't think he would do anything in the
middle of the season, no matter how bad they are.
But you know, if if Bob is thinking about mister
Kraft is thinking about waiting to the end. I mean

(01:36:29):
there's decisions that have to be made. The trade deadline
is coming up, yp and you have to really start
thinking about the future. And if Bill Belichick is here
still coaching, he's the guy who's thinking about the future.

Speaker 1 (01:36:46):
Ye.

Speaker 9 (01:36:48):
If mister Kraft is deciding and knows already that he's
going to be moving on, I don't know.

Speaker 8 (01:36:55):
Maybe you you do make some moves if you could.

Speaker 1 (01:37:00):
Do you think the Patriots could make a move right
now before the trading diedline that would actually help this
team long term? Would they unload a contract? Would they
what would they do if they if they should make one?
Have you given that any thought yet?

Speaker 9 (01:37:14):
Well? I just think whoever is going to be making
such decisions has to decide, you know, do you part
with several of these players who are going to get
you something back? You know, do you want assets or
do you want to hold on and these players try
to resign them for Bill or whoever is taking over

(01:37:36):
next year.

Speaker 1 (01:37:37):
Yeah, yeah, So fundamental decisions need to be made. And
we're not even sure fundamentally speaking of anybody who's making
these decisions will be around at the end of this year,
and so that's why it's it's kind of like we're
sort of we're we're what are we doing? We're marking time,
We're we're treading water, We're how many of their adages

(01:37:58):
can I throw out there?

Speaker 9 (01:37:59):
That's not a good not a good place to be
for them right now. No, because ostensibly they're not gonna
get to the playoffs, And it's like, so do you
let it play out and then hope you get a
good draft pick. Do you try and win it all cost?
It's just as I said, it's just not a good

(01:38:22):
place for them to be in. And also especially if
a coaching change or more is in play.

Speaker 1 (01:38:31):
So let me ask you this, then, what would be
an ideal scenario short of winning every game that's left
on your schedule, which is not going to happen, But
what would be an ideal scenario for this team over
the last Well, let's see, they've got five or six,
so they've got twelve more weeks to go.

Speaker 9 (01:38:47):
Well, John, again, it depends on what your outlook is.
If your outlook is blowing it up and starting anew
with a new coach and a new regime, you might
think of one. I think that getting the first or
second pick would be the optimal.

Speaker 5 (01:39:06):
Thing to do.

Speaker 6 (01:39:07):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (01:39:08):
If you're thinking that you're gonna stay with Bill and
and maybe have a new new GM uh in the house,
you know, you also have to start thinking who do
you want to keep, you know, to turn this thing
around going forward, or to help turn this around forward,

(01:39:29):
you know, going forward?

Speaker 3 (01:39:30):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:39:31):
So not easy, John, No, it's not I know that.
On masslive dot com this week you had a piece
about Dante Scarnecia, who I actually had a nice visit
with a couple of nights ago at a charitable function
in downtown Providence for Providence Rotary and uh the literacy

(01:39:52):
funds that they have there and uh uh and you know,
Dante just and we just were making small talk. You know,
nobody really wants to talk shop when you're trying to,
you know, enjoy an evening out. But he, invariably he
handles it so well. And so I said, so, Dante,
how much money will it take for you come back
and serve as a consultant for about, oh, I don't know,
a month, just a month. And he looked at me

(01:40:14):
like I had three heads you know, and I know
you you talked to him this week, so maybe you
can give us the you know, what your impressions were
from him on how things have transpired and whether or
not the problems that the Patriots have could be considered
a quick fix.

Speaker 9 (01:40:31):
Well, I actually didn't talk to him, per se. I
talked to David Andrews and about him, about him, and
you know what made him so such a worthy entrance
into the Patriots Hall thing. So you know, I'm not sure, geez,

(01:40:55):
I'm not even sure what he would say at this point,
but I think he would kind of I think what
David said kind of would echo what he would say.
And it's like, you just have to keep pushing forward.
You just have to take it one day at a time,
one game at a time, and put your best foot
forward and you can't quit. Quitting is not not part

(01:41:19):
of the solution. So, you know, I think he would
do his best to at least get his guys, if
it was the offensive line, you know, into a more
functional U outfit.

Speaker 1 (01:41:35):
You know, in talking with him, I'm sure that you know,
you you some of the answers that he's giving, We're
gonna be somewhat predictable because nobody's gonna get thrown under
the bus here. How much blame, if there's blame to
be assigned here, how much blame should be also pointed
at the fingers of some of these positional coaches like
you know, Adrian Cleming the offensive line, Troy Bowner ride receiver.

(01:41:58):
The problem areas that the team is continued to have.
Should there be or does that still lie at the
top of the heap with Bill Belichick?

Speaker 9 (01:42:07):
Yeah, I it's well I also think you know, Robert
Kraft has to think about that, sure, because it's unless
he's dictating to Bill. You know, you have to change
the coaches here, here, here, and here, yep. And Bill's
obviously not going to want.

Speaker 5 (01:42:27):
To do that.

Speaker 1 (01:42:28):
So Bill's gonna want his people absolutely. So what what
what should be the in your thoughts here on the
team going into the Buffalo game for this you know, Sunday,
I mean, quite frankly, it should be a mismatch. I
know that the Patriots are probably the biggest dog they've
been at home in maybe thirty years, uh, you know,

(01:42:49):
going into this game, and yet they've got their own issues.
They're banged up on defense, opportunity continually presents itself, I
think for New England. But Patriots can't seem to get
out of their own way for the mistakes that the making.
I don't even know if this is even should even
be part of the discussion, because what we've seen thus
far doesn't look to be possible. But you know, dare

(01:43:09):
I say if they play a mistake free game, is
a game like this winnable?

Speaker 5 (01:43:22):
It is?

Speaker 9 (01:43:22):
But I think Buffalo would have to be a co conspirator.

Speaker 1 (01:43:26):
Okay, I that I happen to agree with you one
hundred percent. I mentioned that to uh, to our friend
Vic Caruci a little while ago. You know, the only
way Buffalo keeps this a game, and potentially, you know,
fumbles His way is just like that by shooting themselves
on the foot and fumbling it away or throwing picks
or something happens to Josh Allen and and and you
know that may be the maybe the case.

Speaker 5 (01:43:48):
But I will.

Speaker 9 (01:43:50):
Interject here though, I think I think since the Bills
basically trounced the Dolphins a few weeks back, I think
they've they've got a little full of themselves, and you know,
have tried to coast through games and then pick it
up when they had to. You know, if they have that,

(01:44:10):
they still have that kind of attitude that again I
don't I don't know Vic said this to you, but
it's just me watching them from afar. Sure, but if
they if they think they're you know, they can turn
it on when they want. Yeah, you know, maybe that
gives the patios some hope.

Speaker 1 (01:44:29):
Maybe I'm not Yeah, I know right, I'm not chuckling
at you. I'm chuckling with you on that one you
brought up, and I brought up Dante, uh, And I
know that you talked to David largely. I'm sure because uh,
Dante is going to be inducted into the Patriots Hall
of Fame this weekend, and we still don't know whether
or not that he's even going to be outdoors or
not because of the forecast of rain right now on Saturday,

(01:44:52):
but Dante will still be a part of that along
with Mike Vrabel this weekend. That's the ceremony and everything
will be taking place. So I I you know, Dante
Scornekia has meant a lot of things to a lot
of people around here, and I know everybody seemed to
think that he would have you know, a quick fixed
answer for you know, I guess what ails up front
or whatever? Why do you think? And maybe you can

(01:45:14):
help us out with some of the impressions that you
got from David here. But why do you think Dante
was such an effective coach to the point where he's
considered a vital member and a vital cog in the
Patriots organization for decades, not just years, but decades. Why
is that? Do you think?

Speaker 9 (01:45:31):
Well, first and foremost, he was a terristic teacher. He
was very detail oriented. He was a stickler for the
fundamentals and for the technique that he believed in, and
he taught them and you know, you know, you put

(01:45:52):
him into practice and players would see, hey, yeah, he's right.
I you know, I'm I'm two seventy five and I
can take on this three hundred twenty five found guy
and have success. So, you know, he was very you know,
he was a disciplinarian. He was strict, he was tough,
but the players respected him because of him. He's had

(01:46:15):
success teaching lineman his way. And you know, whether it
was making a wrestler Stephen Neil into a very good
offensive guard or Trent Brown having a pro Bowl All
Pro caliber season in twenty eighteen, a year I thought

(01:46:39):
he was legitimately the best left tackle in the game.
When you do things like that, you know, that kind
of cement you your reputation. And even David Andrews was
an undrafted player and he's one of the game's better centers.
So and it comes from, again, all of the fundamentals

(01:47:04):
and techniques and drilling and working hard that you know,
the tone that Scarnaki has set for them when he
was the coach.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
You mentioned his ability to be a teacher, and I
really believe that's what Bill Belichick has surrounded himself for
a number of years with his guys who could teach.
And yet this team is one of the most undisciplined
teams we've seen in decades. Why has that happened?

Speaker 9 (01:47:29):
Yeah, you know, I don't know. It's stunning to me
just how far they've fallen in that respect. Because Patriots
teams the reputation they don't beat themselves, but of late,
that's all they do, beat themselves. And it's again, it's

(01:47:52):
what they are is unrecognizable to people who have watched
them over the years. And yes, Tom Brady was a
big part of that, but still in the big games,
in the close games against the better opponents, they weren't
making the mistakes.

Speaker 1 (01:48:09):
The other kings were right and the shoe is now
on the other foot.

Speaker 9 (01:48:15):
It certainly is big time.

Speaker 1 (01:48:17):
Hey, Karen, thanks for a little time today. It's always appreciated.

Speaker 9 (01:48:20):
Good to talk to you, all right, John, take care.

Speaker 1 (01:48:23):
You got it. Karen Griggin at k Grigin g U
R E G I A n on X if you
want to follow along now of course with masslive dot com,
longtime writer for the Patriots, covering from the Boston Herald
as well, but mass live is where she gets it
done now hey. Bridgestone is the official tire of the
New England Patriots, proud to partner with Sullivan Tire, New

(01:48:43):
England's headquarters for quality. Bridge Stone Tires. VI is a
sullivantire dot com to find a location near you, Our
friend Howard and Connecticut checks in on email. He says
to say this has been a disappointing season to date.
Is the understatement of understatements. Yes, I am disappointed in
the team, especially and their lack of ability to compete.
I thought with Bill O'Brien joining the staff, things would

(01:49:04):
only get better. Boy, was I wrong. I think the
first thing they need to do is stop the hemorrhaging
on the offensive line. If they can do that, I
believe they can feel a more competitive offense. Let's start
there and work up from the Grand canyon they have
dug themselves. The problem with that one, Howard is, is
they're just not going to be able to do that
this year. They still haven't played a single down of
football with the offensive line they thought they would have

(01:49:26):
to start the season with because of injury. He says,
I too, don't want Parker on this team anymore. It
was a perfect pass by Mac and he simply dropped it.
It happens own it. Strive to get better catch it
the next time Mac throws to you. I go into
every game thinking they can win the game, regardless of
how improbable the experts say that is. So this week

(01:49:47):
Pats win twenty to nineteen. The will build off the
scoring last week and get to the twenty point plateau
to win the game. It would be a first a
second because they did that Week one against Philly. Right,
wishful thinking, But That's why I'm a fan, so is
Eldred in North Carolina. Hey, Eldred, you get the final
word today. What's up, buddy?

Speaker 7 (01:50:08):
Hey, how you doing, mister Legend?

Speaker 1 (01:50:09):
All right, it's all good. Where are you at today?

Speaker 7 (01:50:13):
I'm at the shop trying to get my truck fixed.
Oh oh, bracket broke.

Speaker 1 (01:50:18):
Oh and yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:50:20):
So I'm riding down the highway and like, I ain't.

Speaker 3 (01:50:22):
Got no break.

Speaker 1 (01:50:23):
Oh yeah, get out of the way. Oh my god,
holess lucky, what do you do?

Speaker 5 (01:50:33):
What do you do?

Speaker 1 (01:50:34):
What do you do when that happens?

Speaker 3 (01:50:37):
Right, buddy?

Speaker 1 (01:50:43):
Yeah, right, Oh my god. So you basically just have
to kind of slow down and run it off the road,
don't you. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:50:49):
Lucky for me, I was throwing down and it was
running to a red light. On three guests on the you,
I had to go to York and dude, it just
stopped at the red light. So I had to push
my brakes back. I put my brakes back out. Oh,
let the pressure build up a little bit more. Yeah,
then limp over to the eighty five ram, didn't get
outside and broke to the airlines a little bit, got

(01:51:10):
it running and.

Speaker 3 (01:51:11):
Dropped it off.

Speaker 7 (01:51:12):
Then to me go straight to the shop. I said,
you ain't got to tell me that by one.

Speaker 1 (01:51:15):
Yeah that either right. Oh my lord, that is amazing,
That is absolutely well. I'm glad you're safe. I'm glad
everybody else in your ways safe too.

Speaker 7 (01:51:27):
By the way, yeah me too. Can you imagine running
down the highway about fifty miles an hour with fifty
five pounds the concrete on you?

Speaker 1 (01:51:35):
No, man, oh no, no, good lord, think about the momentum?
Oh my god, no kidding. Right, oh yeah, gravity would
be your worst enemy on that one. Yes, all right, buddy,
So what are your thoughts.

Speaker 7 (01:51:49):
You made the football?

Speaker 1 (01:51:50):
Yeah, my thoughts.

Speaker 7 (01:51:52):
Uh, I'm right. Well, I've been saying for fifteen years,
but you can't get rid of the GM unless you
go as the coach too.

Speaker 1 (01:51:58):
Well, and I would say that's I'd say that's I'd
say that's to be determined. I've changed my a little
bit of my way of thinking on this one. I
think Bill, and again I'm speaking for him, and I
know I probably shouldn't, but I think because he's such
a competitor, and I really believe that he would like
to leave this team at least in decent shape for

(01:52:21):
the next era. And he knows that right now he
were to leave, that would not be the case that
we're going to be cleaning up his mess, I think
that he would consider at least some kind of a
co relationship in terms of building the roster if he
has left to do nothing but coach and see if
he can't turn it around before he decides to call

(01:52:41):
it quits.

Speaker 7 (01:52:43):
Well, mister legends, I'm with Powell okay too much doing
it his way, But just a seventy sixty something years
or how long he's been coached. I know he's seventy
one yep or whatever. Yep, and he thinks is coaching,
not the players, yep. But like I told y'all while back,
and y'all laughed at me, then you can be the
greatest coach in the world, had the greatest playbook for whatever.

(01:53:06):
But if you ain't got the players of that after
dog run that just a coach told the clip for it.

Speaker 1 (01:53:10):
Yeah, And you know what, and I would, first of all,
I would never laugh at you. Second of all, I
understand no, never, I never laugh at you. I respect
your opinion of mentally and the fact that you agree
with Paul. Okay, Hey, that's fine, I can I can
live with that. I just I just think that you know,
because of the relationship that that Bill has had with
mister Kraft over the years. I really believe that they

(01:53:30):
can talk almost as friends. I don't know that this
is necessarily a boss employee relationship. And because they both
bought it, that both bought into this thing, I think
there could be a sense of reasoning that he would
consider here in order to Hey, let's get let's leave
here on a good foot, because frankly, I think you know,
you know, you should, you know, have the opportunity to

(01:53:53):
break Don Shula's record here, let's turn this around. But
I got to do it this way. Bill, are you
in or you know, are you out? And to me,
the only way that he says no to mister Kraft
is if he has another opportunity with another team where
he can run the entire ship. If he does that,
then more power to him. Go off and take it

(01:54:13):
right off into the sunset. And you know, they completely
flip the page here.

Speaker 7 (01:54:18):
Okay, I can see that. But I can't see that
because if he goes somewhere else, I know, this trap
ruck of winning games and super Bowls, then were anybody
gonna be looking at. But the other part you gotta
look at you had number twelve and we had to
disagree with with this two a while back. But I'm
telling you, every time a good quarterback of Hall of

(01:54:40):
Fame quarterback, he's a team. I said that before too.
I don't care if the Hall of Fame coaches there.
It takes five to ten years to rebuild to get
back into flying Cowboys, Steelers, Dolphins forty nine US. When
Wash left, it took Moochi and Young four years. They

(01:55:00):
had the same King two win the Super Bowl. I
keep throwing that up. Everybody said, no, we got the
greatest coach to ball. Okay, you see what the last
four years is Ot Brady.

Speaker 1 (01:55:09):
Well, that's true, And like.

Speaker 7 (01:55:11):
I said before, it's the talent level. I get mad
at Bill because the players are there that you need.
Everybody get saying, well, we never had a chance, wholl Craft,
they're right there. He gonna get Joe blow from from
your Yukon university and think he played the NFL and
play you know, and the other guy that that you

(01:55:33):
really interviewed and brought to it and you wouldn't seen
on Pro day. You just look at him at like
a whiff and then they come back and whoop our
butt every time I lay did a couple of weeks ago,
and I'm like, he was right there. But you should
the strange, you know, picking for Pittsburgh, Watson for Green Bay.
You know you had a bunch of but that just
this year draft. I'm going back to last year. You

(01:55:55):
could have linebacker, you got a walker outside there. You
can have a bunch of guys, but you did you
went get this, did that, and Harry was the biggest drop,
like I said before, biggest bus thing. You know, when
you needed a wide receiver, you had all the rest
of aj Brown, you had dk mcff the one I wanted,
you know, and they come back and then he got

(01:56:16):
butt no matter what we play, you know, but his
his way of thinking. It's not just coaching. And I
agree with you. Peaul Brown needed to leave the suckerdred coach.

Speaker 3 (01:56:29):
You need to go and clem.

Speaker 7 (01:56:32):
I have to give him least another year if that
line still looked the same way because.

Speaker 3 (01:56:36):
He didn't hair the mess.

Speaker 1 (01:56:38):
You know, he didn't get some of his.

Speaker 7 (01:56:39):
Guys and O'Brien, I give him a pass because you
know what he needed. Bill probably wouldn't have didn't go
that way.

Speaker 3 (01:56:47):
He went defense.

Speaker 7 (01:56:49):
The best draft for pick he got so far is
guns dollars and he got hurt, you know, white okay,
but he's not producing like we like, we hope he would,
you know, Ju done gone and everything just falling apart.
This team got be rebuilt all over again, including Mac
Jones replace him. Yep, he broke it because I'm like Evans,

(01:57:10):
I did they watch the game that's the back going
YouTube rewinds, look at everything? Yeah, he's awful. Guy's wide
open and he just scared. And I looked at that
replay the other night with Philadelphia and the Jets, and
I remember how they quarterback used to look when they
played us, all skame whatever. But that game, he's smiling,

(01:57:33):
he's laughing, Wilson smile, He laughing, and he's driving right
down the field.

Speaker 3 (01:57:38):
But I know he got weapons.

Speaker 1 (01:57:40):
He has some weapons, and he's finally learned. And I
would tell you that I think, you know, maybe before
he got broken, that Mac was also capable of that
if he had weapons around him. So the reason that
Mac is broken is not because he forgot how to
play quarterback. It's because he's been abused, you know, by
the opposing teams. Because he's got nobody blocking and nobody catching.

Speaker 7 (01:58:02):
Yeah, I understand that. Understand that part too. I fought
Field and everybody else for that too, but also fought
Matt Jones. You know, go somewhere down the line, you
gotta take that little little powdy boy outfit panties off
and put the big man draws and play ball.

Speaker 1 (01:58:18):
I agree. I agree with that. Sometimes, yeah, you have to. Yeah,
sometimes you do have to suck it up. But Eldred
I would tell you in this case, I don't put
any blame on Mac. I just don't. And the reason
that I don't is because he's fighting. He's swinging with
a short stick. He's swinging with a short stick. He
can't reach the fastball, so to speak, because he's got
a short stick. So I mean, give give him a

(01:58:40):
regulation bat, give him a mallet, give him something, but
he doesn't have it.

Speaker 7 (01:58:44):
Give him give hammer, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:58:46):
Give him a hammer. He doesn't have it. He's got nothing.

Speaker 7 (01:58:51):
Yeah. But but a couple of those, couple of those games,
like I said, he could have stepped up when you know,
made a couple of plays.

Speaker 3 (01:58:57):
He panted.

Speaker 7 (01:58:58):
If you look at me, even in the game.

Speaker 1 (01:59:01):
Hey, he had a perfect pass. He threw a perfect
pass this last Sunday to Devonte Parker and he dropped it.
And if Parker catches that ball, they got a chance
to win that game.

Speaker 7 (01:59:12):
They get a chance to win the game. I understand
that too. My question is this, mister legend. I've been
asking this for ten years, even when Brady played.

Speaker 3 (01:59:18):
All right, okay, fifteen years, all.

Speaker 7 (01:59:20):
Right, why would you so deep to the slowest guy
on the third field and you got two speeches right there.
They can they can get in four to two, four
to three speed at least try it with them at
least one.

Speaker 3 (01:59:33):
Yeah, you know, but you go with the slowest guy
and he was opening.

Speaker 7 (01:59:37):
Right the ball even hand. I just turned the TV
after that. I'm like, damn, we lost hit him in
the hand. It wasn't no finger tip. Hey, he should
have caught that.

Speaker 3 (01:59:47):
And if you'd have kept.

Speaker 7 (01:59:47):
Running hed I ran them all way to the gold line.

Speaker 1 (01:59:50):
Yep.

Speaker 7 (01:59:50):
But like I said, you know, I can't understand why
he would Bill if the GM will give him in
juju three years attention and my over there make you
like crap.

Speaker 2 (02:00:02):
Now, well that's that left and right.

Speaker 1 (02:00:04):
That's that's so I know, And that's something that he
obviously is gonna have to He's gonna have to learn
to live with and try to adjust from Eldred. We're
out of time, my friend, Yes, but you have a
good one. Thanks buddy for the phone call. You'd be
safe out there in that truck now.

Speaker 3 (02:00:20):
Yes, sir, all right?

Speaker 1 (02:00:22):
Good our friend Eldred, North Carolina with busted truck get
out of his dog, gone way right. Brought to you,
of course, today by the Massachusetts Office of Travel and Tourism.
Great memories are made of Massachusetts, no matter how you
choose to make them, indoors or outdoors, scenic views, city vibes,
solo or family style, whatever moves you, whatever the season,
plan your perfect Massachusetts getaway at visit dash ma dot com.

(02:00:47):
Thanks to Vic Carucci from Buffalo, Karen Griggian mass Live,
Russell Baxter, the Pro Football Gur Room himself, Evan Lazar
Patriots dot Com for joining us. Uh, thank you, Faith
wait to hang in there. Thank you. We throw a
lot of different things at her, but she handled the
curveball pretty well today. That's good. Let's hope Marine gets
his tool fixed. Oh my god, poor guy got two

(02:01:09):
little ones to take care of at home and everything
on top of that, right, Uh, he can handle it.
He's tough. Thanks everybody, appreciate you. Same patch time, same
patch channel next week, two pm Eastern time, right here
on Patriots dot com Radio. Next Wednesday, well, recap buff
we'll look ahead to Miami, if you can call it that,
see it. Thank you for downloading this podcast.

Speaker 2 (02:01:34):
Subscribe on Apple, Google Play, and everywhere else you listen.

Speaker 1 (02:01:37):
Like the show, please rate and review us. Listener comments
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