Patriots Playbook 11/29: Chargers Preview and NFL Week 13 Predictions

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
This is Patriots playbook legend. We really don't get much
of a chance just to shoot the bleep. Do it
furiates the hell out of me, asked Miss Robins. She'll
tell you I'm the one that's going god blee blo
blah blah blah blah, you know, letting it fly. And
she's like the neighbors will hear I walk in the door.
He could not get out of here fast enough. He
didn't look at me. Now here's your host of Patriots playbook,

(00:33):
John Rook. I forgot what context that was in.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
I heard about this, John, I heard about you did
not I did. I got upstairs and I'm gonna throw
him right under the bus. Our our webmaster, Chris Ferrara,
came up to me and he said, John's John Rook
is he's got a bone to pick with you.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
That was the cut.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Now I remember he's not happy, and I just want
to say that I sincerely apologized, and and I.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Oh, yes you do, okay, my god, yes you do.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
You need policy conferences to go to. So I jet
it out of here. But everybody was telling me about
how how you.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Brook was upset, Yeah, because you walked out on him.
And we walked out on that turn. You turn right around.
He walked out the door. You need even acknowledge my presence.
He's like, I gotta get out of here. But if
a rook says, oh, please please, can you give me fifteen.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Minutes, oh, I always have fifteen minutes for you.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
You know that you better have thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
I have I have an hour now, I gotta now,
I gotta make up for last week, so I'll just do.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Oh, it's all good, It's all good, you know me.
I like to have fund your expense and everybody else's
expense too, for that matter, including my own, by the way,
including my own, because I came into the day thinking
if I have to deal with Mac versus Bailey again
this week, I just don't know, you have the breath left?

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Well, I don't know if you don't have to deal
with it, because it's still a little bit ambiguous, but
you know, you're just talking about it on PU. I
was out of practice and it was the Bailey zapp Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
And Cunningham's out there to getting reps right.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yep, And I think that it's we're at the point
at this point, and we have famously argued on this
show about Mac Jones versus Bailey Zappy one of one
of our all time great radio moments. Yes, it was
Bailey Zappi versus Mac Jones last year. I am I

(02:31):
had you would appreciate this out of all people because
you know how hard against Bailey Zappy I was.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
You were you totally yeah, almost like he was playing
for the Jets or something.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
I am at the point now where I'm camp Bailey
Zappy and I just want to make it one hundred
percent clear. One hundred percent clear, And it's based off
of two specific things. One I will admit that I
would like to see I would like to see what

(03:03):
it looks like for Zappi when he is the starter
for the whole week, Like, what's it like if you
give him practice reps Wednesday through Friday. It's his game plan,
it's his play sheet, it's a plan catered around Bailey
Zappi and he's not coming into the middle of a
football game like he has all season long. What does
it look like? And when I say that, I have

(03:25):
no inclinations whatsoever that he's going to look like a
franchise quarterback. Nobody is saying that, but for the Patriots.
I do wonder if he can prove in the next
six weeks of the season that he is a capable
NFL backup quarterback and that way there next year in
the draft, you're not looking for two quarterbacks, You're really
just looking for one, right, And I think that that's

(03:47):
the biggest thing that you have to take away from this.
It's it has to happen with the way Mac Jones
is played. He has to be back.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
We know Mac is shot, he's broken, and we've talked
about this now for several weeks this year. We think
he's been broken pretty much since before mid season, and
we can lie fault wherever you want a lie fault.
It's clearly Mac has to own some of it because
it's still his performance. But at the same time, there
are multiple factors involved here, and I don't know if

(04:16):
we'll even get to another of those factors today, but
we all know there are multiple factors involved here. And
in my particular viewpoint, we've always on this show tried
to take a little bit more of a longer term view,
so I can appreciate at least your immediate one hundred
and eighty degree turn from this time of a year
ago when you were literally lambasting me for thinking about

(04:40):
And of course I only did that only because you
have a great blue vein right down the middle of
your forehead and I just wanted to see it pop.
So but that part of it, you know, Besides that,
I just when you compare the two based on what
we knew at the time to their level of talent,
there was nothing to compare too. He was fresh out

(05:01):
of college and Mac had had a good rookie year.
He had a crappy last year. We know that, you know,
and he obviously was what he was at Alabama to
be a first round draft pick. So when you look
at them, you know, based on their their height, their weight,
their trade, their athleticism and everything. I mean, Mac had
it all over and for anybody to even consider Bailey's
appy being in the same category was ridiculous. And told

(05:24):
me that, honestly, you don't know what you're looking at
when you're watching a football game. You don't know. Now,
there are many different factors that swing into this equation. Now,
as we all know, Mac is beaten and broken. He
reminds me, I think the best analogy that I can
come up with is Mac reminds me of Ken Norton

(05:45):
as a heavyweight boxer. He's just beat all the hell yeah, okay,
and he had nothing left in the tank at the
end of his tenure, you know, at the end of
his career. And Jimini Christmas, this is the third year
of his professional career. And I don't see anything in
this guy. And I honestly believe and this is what
I was prepared to say today, and so I'll go

(06:05):
ahead and follow it up. But I honestly believe he
benefits himself personally by sitting out. I don't think this
is an issue that you can work through. You want
to get him to a sports psychologist, you want to
get him to a quarterback guru, you want to sit
him down with TB twelve himself, whatever. But he needs

(06:26):
time to sort of absorb what he's gone through and
recover from what he's gone through, not just physically but
especially mentally. Yeah, and we have to understand that you're
right where Bailey's Abbey is concerned. This is a stopgap measure.
Let's see what the Patriots have in him and can
he do it with a complete full week of practice

(06:48):
and the backing of the offense such as it is,
because honestly, this last Sunday against the Giants, I have
not felt this way about a New England Patriots team
in thirty three season, since nineteen ninety you know, when
you knew they had no hope and no prayer of
moving the ball in much less winning a football game.

(07:11):
So this is unprecedented territory for many of us in
this audience today, in your lifetime, just about because the
last I mean, we've never gone through this with Bill Belichick,
even in his first year when they were five and eleven,
we didn't go through this kind of nader. We didn't
go through this. Nobody's gone through this. So we're in
uncharted waters here, so nobody knows how to act or

(07:33):
even react. We react blah blah blah, he sucks, he
blows whatever. That's just cannon fodder. That's just bloviating. If
you're really gonna look at this from a big picture
point of view, the fact of the matter is is right,
it's getting worse. We may not yet have hit bottom
on this team. Bottom on this team I think right
now would be two and fifteen. Then you can pretty

(07:53):
much say, okay, if you got the number one draft
pick year of the bottom. But at the same time,
I just saw Poul today where I think ESPN stats
and info released at the Patriots right now have a
twenty six percent chance of either the first or the
second pick in the draft in April, which is pretty
good odds one and four chance and getting one of
those top two picks. And I know we're looking way

(08:14):
ahead of it, but I'm thinking big picture, and so
in terms of big picture and trying to stay big picture.
In terms of big picture, yeah, you do need to
see what you have. He does need to operate with
whatever your full deck is because you kind of know
what you have with Mac. And I think I'd even
just remove Mac from the equation for a while. Is
Bailey Zappi worth keeping? Is Bailey Zappy good enough to

(08:36):
where we could go out and maybe pick up a
free agent veteran in the offseason if we don't get
the drafted quarterback that we really identify as the guy
that can be the next guy. And hey, remember they
thought they had him with Mac Jones three years ago
and it turned it out not having him. So are
we gonna go through this drill in another three years?
Don't know, so we can only operate in the here

(08:56):
and now. And the here and now is all right,
Bailey's up. Now one more thing I'm gonna add to that. Yeah,
And I'm hearing on local radio round here today talk
every talk show just about touching on the fact that,
you know, Bill's going to take us through this garbage
every week, not tell us who the starter is. Rex
Ryan going off that, you know, Rex is just butt
heart because Bill whipped his butt, you know, ten times

(09:19):
a Sunday every week when he was a coach. So
I take nothing that Rex Ryan says. I don't credit
any of it. I take it all with the green
of salt. The issue here is overall the Patriots and
Bill Belichick are going to do exactly as they've always said,
and they should. It's not playing games releasing the starter

(09:43):
because we're trying to play some slighter hand of the
opponent or whatever. That's not what it is. But if
you're going to stay true to what you've always said,
and I believe Bill does that, Okay, if he does
nothing else, he stays true to what his beliefs are correct.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Most of the time, most of the time.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
Okay, then it's a week to week process, and the
guy who performs better in practice is gonna get the start,
and it's gonna happen every stinking week for the rest
of this year. However, Mac maybe removed from the process.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, I think that that's I guess. The only part
that I would push back on a little bit is
just because I think that it would be pretty hard.
I'm ventured to guess that Mac Jones probably outperforms Bailey
Zappy in practice every single week. It has nothing to

(10:33):
do with the fact that I, you know, the whole
thing that we would argue about last year about Matt
being better and all this. I just think that that's
probably what happens. It probably is because in practice, you're
wearing a red non contact jersey. Nobody can touch you.
There's no thread of the pass rush hitting you, there's
no threat. It's not a live game setting. A lot

(10:54):
of these reps. We also have to remember in practice
is against the scout team defense. So you're going up
against a lot of practice squad guys and guys at
the bottom of the roster that are on the scout team.
We're not talking about him going up against josh Uja
and Christian barmore and you know, the starting defense, so
he probably it probably looks okay at times in practice.

(11:17):
And I think that that's the problem that they've run into,
is that Wednesday through Friday, Mac gets the majority of
the reps. Mac looks okay in practice, and then they
get to the game on Sunday, and when it's live,
that's when it unravels for Mac. What I look at
with Bailey Zappian with Mac at this point is that
mac Jones had a lot of really bad habits that

(11:40):
seeped in into his game last year. Footwork, you know,
throwing off his back foot, antsy in the pocket, all
this kind of stuff. And then this year the results
didn't come and the confidence went out the door. So
now you have a guy that has no confidence, that

(12:00):
has already regressed mechanically, and then that snowballs on you
to being what he is now, which is just a
totally broken quarterback. I think we're at the point now
with mac Jones where he doesn't start another game as
a New England Patriot. I think that he's done here, and.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
I think I think he could be. But again, I
will reiterate that I believe that truly, Bill will take
this week to week. I think he'll sit him down
for a while. I don't know how long a while is,
maybe the wireless six weeks, I don't know. Yeah, but
I do think that Mac will have an opportunity in
practice to get another shot. I think that he'll get
another shot. They might determine that, you know what. I

(12:39):
think we're good. We know now. But I still would
be surprised if he doesn't get another shot somewhere.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
I would say the only way to me that he
starts another game for the Patriots is due to injury
to Zappi. Okay, maybe other than that, I don't think
it happens unless Zappi goes out there on Sunday and
is just god awful. And I just can't imagine that
it could be much worse. And I think my point
about Mac and the sort of development of his broken

(13:06):
status here is that when I watched Bailey Zappi play,
there are clear cut limitations to his game. But he's
not mentally somebody that looks broken. He's not panicked, he's
not sped up. He's not making horrible decisions with the football,
you know, throwing lob passes to linebackers over the middle

(13:28):
of the field because he sees a blitz coming right.
You know, he's not making those god awful types of
decisions for the most part. I know he threw a
bad interception against the Colts, but that was put into
a situation that not a lot of guys are gonna
succeed in. Like, here's a game winning drive to go
win the game. You've been sitting on the bench all
day long, Go win us the football game. Like that

(13:49):
doesn't really happen anytime anywhere, right, That was a really
weird circumstance. Other than that, like the interception he threw
on Sunday against the Giants, wasn't a Jones level interception
like we've seen Mac throw the last couple of weeks.
It was a really good play by Xavier McKinney. It
was a really good safety and he stared it down

(14:10):
a little bit and he probably telegraphed it a little bit.
But at the end of the day, McKinney comes out
of center field and you know, jumps a crossing route
and makes a play on the may It wasn't like
Mac Jones's interception on a very similar concept where he's
throwing into a team meeting for the there's three Giants
and one Patriot in the area. This was a different

(14:32):
type of throw.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
How many times are they throwing to double and triple
teams last week? Yeah, the crap. It seemed like every
pass was at least doubled, if not tripled.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Well, I think that that obviously, that speaks to the
talented receiver and the.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Well, I'm just I'm just gonna say the other you know.
And and Bill O'Brien I think, you know, fell on
the sword a little bit this week talking to the media. Yeah,
and I and I think it was it was Yeah,
I think it was appropriate. I think he definitely should
because a lot of it, you know, starts with him.
But I think, you know, and I know that this
is probably gonna come as a little bit of a

(15:05):
surprise to a lot of people because of the nature
of his belovedness around here. But Troy Brown's got to answer
for this too.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, I mean I've been I've been on Troy Brown
for two years. Yeah, I think at some point, to
start with Bill O'Brien, the person that I'm the most
disappointed and disappointed dad in is O'Brien because with Mac,
I already knew that it was probably a fifty to
fifty proposition whether or not Mac Jones was gonna recover
from last year and go on to be what we

(15:35):
thought he might be his rookie season. With Bill O'Brien,
I really thought that there would be a professional level
of performance that he would bring to the table. And
to this point, it still blows my mind that statistically
they are a worse offense this year than they were
last year.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
It's hard. Number one, it's hard for me to fathom
that number two somewhere map Tricia's smiling.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Sure, I still stick to my guns on the fact
that the design of the offense last year was incredibly flawed.
I have to trust my gut on that, and I
also have to trust what the players were telling us,
you know, throughout the season that they didn't have answers
to things they were getting game planned by other defenses,

(16:22):
and there was no left hand right, there was no
plan B. They were watered down offensively, like everything was simplified,
and you know, borderline like high school college level in
terms of Vanilla nonis on offense Bill O'Brien's installation. And
I know this for a fact, because I've seen some

(16:44):
of it on both coaches. Bill O'Brien's installation this year
compared to Matt Patricia's installation last year. You know, I
say installation, I mean the playbook that they installed in
the off season was night and Day talking about you know,
like Julian Edelman used to say, we're talking about calculus

(17:05):
and like basic arithmetic, right like that, That's what we're
talking about in terms of difference. But the level of
schematic advances that they've made this year clearly has not
translated to anything better offensively, and that, to me, I
think is where the biggest like how the heck did

(17:25):
we get here a thing comes down to.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
I think everybody wants to know that, I really do.
I want to know how we got here? How did
we get here? How did this go so far south
so fast? And the only reasonable explanation I can come
up with it's just been an unbelievable confluence of several
disasters happening almost simultaneously.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, I think what I've come back to because I,
again I have to trust that Bill O'Brien is a
better offensive coach than Matt Patricia. You're talking about one guy.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
That reason you could make that assessionment.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, the one guy that's been doing it for thirty years,
that's had success in the league, that's had success in college.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
As opposed to a guy who was just forced to do.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
It right, I have to believe that. So that tells
you that the issues offensively are personnel driven, their player driven.
And I think Mac Jones' regression hit hard last year
and has hit even harder this year. Ultimately, Jacoby myers
In out Juju Smith schuster In turned out to be

(18:31):
a massive downgrade. And I think when you look at
Jacoby's year last year, if he was in a functional
NFL offense, he's probably a thousand yard receiver.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
Why was Juju such a massive downgrade because of his
damaged goods?

Speaker 2 (18:45):
I yes, I think he was damaged goods, and I
think that his skill set is different enough from Jacoby's.
Jacoby is a great route runner. Jacoby is a great separator,
He's a great route runner, He's got great hands, those
types of things that I think Jacoby does really well,
whereas Juju is more of that like catch and run,

(19:06):
sturdy frame, bigger frame, slot receiver. And I think that
that difference didn't translate well into this offense. You know
that there Jacoby was the tech, the technician, and that's
what this offense calls for, whereas Juju is more of
a guy that just wants to catch and run the
ball in space, and they don't get him into space

(19:28):
and they don't get those opportunities. It's it's weird because
the couple of times it's it's not all that dissimilar
to Johnny Smith, like a couple of times that we've
seen Juju not have to juke guys out but just
catch the ball on like a crossing route and be
able to just run up the field. He's done okay
on a lot of those carries, like he's gained yards

(19:49):
on a lot, but there's so few and far between.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
He doesn't get over and he has hard time getting
open because of his injury.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Right, he doesn't get open on his own. He doesn't
he he can't run er out, break down, make a cut,
get open on his own. Jacobe could do that, and
I think that that was probably the biggest thing. So
it's got to be personnel driven. That's the way that
I feel about it. But in general, Bill O'Brien, I
think we look at him as well. And on top
of the fact that they could have a new head

(20:18):
coach here next year, which could be an offensive guy
to begin with, I really am starting to think that
maybe Bill O'Brien might be one and done in New England.
Because that's the biggest reason is if you hire a
Ben Johnson or somebody like, he's going to come in
and run his own offense, so he doesn't need Bill
O'Brien here. But even if you don't, I just wonder
if maybe they go in a completely different direction offensively

(20:42):
with the next hire.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
All Right. That leads me to my next question, because
I was thinking, well, we may not have time for
this today because we do want to spend some time
on the immediacy of everything that's happening. But you know,
one of the things that I kind of thought about
in general terms was so much out there and not
only in the local media here but now spreading into
the national media as too. You know, while would the
Patriots really consider firing Bill Pelichick? And so I really

(21:05):
have a simple threefold question, and I want anybody and
everybody who's listening to this right now to offer your
opinion one way or the other. You can pick up
the phone eight five five Pats five hundred, web radio
at Patriots dot com on email, or hit me up
on x dot com. Matt, he's laughing because I always
say Twitter. It's still Twitter at JR Broadcaster. Okay, three things?

(21:30):
Three things? Which one do you pick? Where Bill Belichick
is concerned? Okay, keep him, let him go, trade him.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
So I'm gonna I'm gonna cross sports. That's okay with you. Fine,
I know some programs done.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
Whatever analogy you want to use is fine by me.
This is the playbook, so you know, it'll open it
up wide.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
If he cares at all, which I tend to think
he doesn't care, but if he does care at all
about how he leaves the Patriots and how he leaves
the organization. At the end here, when the Celtics traded
Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett to the Brooklyn Nets, they

(22:15):
knew that their window was shut. They weren't going to
win a title, another title. They knew that, and their
parting gift to the Celtics because the Celtics needed their
permission to trade them. I think KG in particular might
have had a no trade clause. Their parting gifts to
the Celtics was you can trade us to Brooklyn and

(22:38):
get a haul of draft picks for us, and those
draft picks turn into Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown. So
I he jokes about it, but Paul Pierce always jokes
about how you're welcome Boston. Right, not only did ide me,
not only did I win you a title, but then
I gave you a decade of relevant basketball because I

(22:59):
gave you Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
So, if I'm Bill Belichick and I'm thinking about this,
I think that there's my preference would be to trade
him because if you can get a real asset in
exchange for Bill Belichick, if you can get if big if,
but if you can get a real asset in exchange
for Bill Belichick, this team needs rebuilding assets. Like that's

(23:27):
what they need. If you're talking even if you're talking
about a Day two draft pick, it's it's a little
parting gift.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
See. I think that that is the least likely of
the three scenarios to occur, much as I think in
theory we'd all like to see that. The number one
reason that that's the least likely scenario to occur is
because everybody knows you're trying to get rid of him.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, the part of the compensation is going to be
an issue.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
You gotta you gotta one for the Broncos or who
the Saints got a one for Sean Payton? Yeah, okay,
are you gonna get a one for Bill Belichi?

Speaker 2 (24:00):
No, No, because he's ten years older, exactly the point.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
And Bill's gonna say, I'm not even worth a one. No, No,
I'm not going for that. Don't know, don't trade me,
fire me.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
I This is where I said that if he cares,
because what I meant that to say, you know by
that is that he wants In my mind, he would
want to get fired regardless.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yes, because he can be a free agent, right, pick
and choose his.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Spot, and the Crafts have to pay him. Yes, right,
so he's.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yes, so he's gonna beg him. You know, Hey, if
I'm not your coach, fire me, right.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
So it doesn't behoove Bill Belichick whatsoever to be traded. Yeah,
it really doesn't.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Know, it doesn't benefit him at all. But if you're
looking at it from an organizational point of view, yeah,
you're gonna try to get to ascent from him, But
if you're not gonna get but uh, I mean, good lord.
I think even Bruce arians got a one, didn't.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
He he might have? This is where I think that
And we can't.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Get a one for the maybe the greatest coach of
all time. And you can't get a one? Are you
freaking serious?

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Not at his Really? I think there's a chance that
if it's a team like the Chargers, a team like
the Cowboys, a team like the Commanders, maybe close to
winning more so that aren't picking in the top ten.
Like let's say it's it's the twenty fifth pick in
the draft, and say you're not getting for example, you're

(25:21):
not getting you know, well, Carolina doesn't have their first
round picks. I guess it's a bad example. But you're
not getting a top ten pick for Carolina.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
That's words of a dumpter dumpster fire than this is.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
You're not getting a top ten pick for Bill Belichick.
Could you get the fifteenth pick in the draft from
the Chargers for Bill Belichick?

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Maybe? Maybe? Maybe? Maybe? I think maybe, no, maybe, But
if you could get that, then I think it probably
is to your benefit to do that. Ye right, yeah, absolutely,
because then you've got your own pick plus the fifteenth.
Now you got two of the top fifteen picks.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Right, drafted quarterback and a receiver.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Yeah, and you're ready to roll, right, and the new
era has begun all over again, right, just like it
did three years ago.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Totally. I just when I look at this situation, I
think the one thing that I keep on trying to
wrap my head around is like, how do they keep Bill?

Speaker 3 (26:12):
Not?

Speaker 2 (26:13):
We all know all the reasons why they shouldn't keep Bill,
and we're all I'm all in the camp of get
rid of Bill, Like, trust me, but how are there
any arguments for keeping him? And what in what are they?

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Number one? Twenty three years of history right?

Speaker 2 (26:31):
See? That to me is like.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
You ten Super Bowl appearances.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
You can't rest on the laurels.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
No, you can't, you can't. I don't disagree with you,
but but he but he also brought you six trophies
and and and I just to me, I don't. I
don't think that's calculable. I mean it changed the whole
face and demeanor of the franchise to point now where
people all over the country are taking potshots of the
Patriots because they suck so bad. Right now, Yeah, Okay,

(26:55):
but if you didn't win before and kick the crap
out of people along the way, you wouldn't have this scenario.
People just roll around and say it's the Patriots that
blow already anyway, but now people are vehement about it.
Why would Rex Ryan come out and say what he
did this week? Bill? You know, Bill dulls your damn
quarterback because they both stink to high Heaven or whatever
it was. He's on pairabrasing, right, Okay, why would Rex

(27:18):
even feel the need to do that? Because Rex has
been waiting his whole life to beat the Patriots, that's something,
and he can't and he hasn't and he never will.
So all I'm saying is it's everybody's time to jump
in now and beat up on New England. And it
wouldn't have this scenario if there wasn't winning done beforehand,

(27:39):
if there wasn't being up on the totem pole beforehand.
So that's I mean to me, that's just like, you know,
it's like putting the cart before the horse. It doesn't belong.
The horse has got to go first. Bill Belichick is
the horse, and so to me, I don't think just
letting him go is an option. I think that's last.
If I had choose amongst the three of what's likely

(28:02):
to happen, I say he's fired.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah, I think that he that will be. And this
is the one thing that you know, I try not
to get too much into, as we call them Paul's shows,
and and you know, all the sports radio stuff, but
in reality that you have to see it for what
it is, of course, and that is that there is
going to be a little bit of a power struggle

(28:26):
here now between Robert Craft and Bill Belichi.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
There absolutely will be, and and and it might have
already started. Oh I listen, why do you think mister
Craft hasn't said anything. Yeah, because he's just he's biting
his time to the end of the year. Then they're
gonna have that sit down and I'm like, all right, Bill,
what do you want to do? And he's gonna be like, well,
what do you mean what I want to do? I'm
gonna coach football. He's like, well, it's pretty clear that
you know the direction we're heading is not the direction
we need to hit, right. And then that's where the

(28:50):
gnashing of the teeth and the boxing.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Because start Bill's gonna I agree with the Felgers of
the world. On this Bill's gonna say, fire me. Craft
is gonna say, why would I like? Would I let
you go? You're an asset, right, And it's in a way,
you know.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
And now we're gonna have to negotiate. So it'll be
a cluster bleep is what it will be. And and
they're gonna work out some kind of an arrangement potentially
where they'll trade him to a team that he would
want to go to. Yeah, which could be the Chargers,
which could be this week's opponent. You might be looking
at Bill Belichick on the other sideline this time next year.
If that happens. It's possible.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
It's possible. I said, I don't like it for the
Chargers like I love it now.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
No, No, I actually I do like it for the Chargers,
And I'm gonna tell you why. Because it gives them
identity and they don't have it even in their own
stadium or their own city. They are the Rams stepchild.
That's fair, redheaded stepchild in Los Angeles. Those are the Chargers.
They're not the Los Angeles Chargers. They never will be
the Los Angeles Chargers. They will always be San Diego.
You know, and that's just the way it is. And

(29:52):
so for them to have an identity, they need somebody
that will focus attention on them, on the lightning bolts,
on the baby blue in the gold. Bill Belichick can
do that for that franchise.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
That's a great point, and I think in a lot
of ways, that's why the Robert Kraft hired Bill Parcells
back in the day. Yes, to give the Patriots.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yes, now you're cooking on the analogy.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
But at the same time, I look at it from
the Chargers perspective and from a football perspective, because that's
what I do. And Justin Herbert is your asset, right,
He's your prize. He's a franchise quarterback.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Why wouldn't Bill want to go coach Justin Herbert?

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Why wouldn't Bill want to go coach jutgeson Herbert? Is
one hundred percent true? Why would if you're Justin Herbert
and you're the Chargers, I would seriously be reluctant, not
just because of what just happened to Mac Jones under
Bill Belichick's watch, but also because of Bill's age at
seventy two, of what are you really hoping for out

(30:53):
of that marriage? Because if I'm the Chargers, I'm thinking,
who is the the Kyle Shanahan that we can pluck
that can be with Justin Herbert for the next decade,
not for the next two years, right, And so I
think that that's the problem for the would that.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
Would be a little bit of a fly in the ointment. Yeah,
I agree with that one. Sure.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
Plus, you know, is he gonna bring Josh McDaniels with
him to run the offense? Is he gonna be Bill
O'Brien with it?

Speaker 1 (31:21):
I seem to think a guy named Josh McDaniels who's available, right.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
But those guys again, it's it's all it's all temporary.
I feel like with the Bill's next stop.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
But again, when the Patriots were building with Bill Parcells,
I don't think there was any ten or fifteen year
plan ahead. It was like, we need to get relevant,
and we need to get relevant now. And that's the
same situation the Charges are in in LA.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, I agree. I think that the other team, because
of the same situation is Washington. I think they have
a new owner that has deep pockets, that's trying to
make make your splash and make it, you know, knowing
that we're here to spend and we're here to build
something in Washington, and I think it's the same sort
of thing. Sure, it's the parcels topology there as well.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
I think that's a believable scenario as well. All right,
so I'm interested in what you guys think. Eight five
to five, PATS five hundred web Radio at Patriots dot com,
at JR Broadcaster on X THANKSEV. Always appreciate the comments.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
All right, So I stayed this time just for the record, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
He did, he did. It's very true. I can't bit
you out a blue streak anymore. So that's that's good.
And maybe next week we'll actually get to talk some football.
You know, who knows, right, But we'll take our chances
on that one. A lot of it depends on the
team that occupies the stadium on Sundays here. So that
conversation is actually kind of kind of lead in a
little bit to the next person we're dealing with, because

(32:44):
the Chris Mason, who covers the Patriots from Masslive dot
com is going to join us here momentarily, Fernando Ramirez,
who covers the La Chargers for Sporting Tribune. The Sporting Tribune,
he's going to join us later in the show, as
will Russ Baxter on Week thirteen around the NFL, So
we got a lot to get to. I wasn't sure

(33:04):
that the tone and the tenor of this conversation they
was going to go this direction. But Chris, I'm really
happy that you're with us today for a couple of reasons,
because I know you just wrote about this a messlive
dot com about what should happen next between Bill Belichick
and also Robert Craft and the Craft family. And I've
always been in the opinion, and I don't know what
they've told you. Maybe they've told you something differently, but

(33:26):
they told me several years ago before this was ever
even a conversation, that you know, Bill can do what
Bill wants because Bill has a lifetime worth of goodwill
built up with six Super Bowl championships in New England.
Jonathan Craft once told me he will never fire Bill Belichick.
And that is a quote. Okay, now that was years ago,

(33:49):
but he did say that, and he didn't say that
just to me, he said it to you know, an
open public floor. So I'm kind of curious to know
what your beliefs are and where you think this relationship
goes from this point forward when it's very clear it
can't stay the same.

Speaker 4 (34:09):
Well, if Jonathan's the one, if Robert is the one
who technically fires Bill, like, then his words are still okay.
But no, I think you're gonna quote unquote mutual parting
of ways.

Speaker 5 (34:24):
Like.

Speaker 4 (34:24):
I think that's the next step for this, and I
think everyone around here knows it's not working.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
Bill clearly still wants to keep coaching, So I think
that he's going to have He's gonna have to find
somewhere due Well.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
It certainly stands the reason that that's going to be
the case. The question that I'm asking everybody today is
there are three real scenarios here that could happen. The
dominoes can fall any one of these three tracks, and
which one do you favor? A You keep Bill, B,
you let Bill go, see you trade Bill? Which one happens?

Speaker 4 (34:59):
I I think THEE is the most likely. I think
people like the idea of Steve, but I think that
gets really complicated, and there's a reason it doesn't happen often.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
And plus see.

Speaker 4 (35:08):
Bill's going somewhere else right and agrees that he's going
to the Chargers or he's going wherever, Why is he
going to want to give up a draft pick coming up,
you know, a high draft pick in exchange for himself, Like,
I don't think he wants that, and I think he
can make things really difficult doing that.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Yeah, I mean, that make a whole lot of sense
to me. Either'd be quite honest with you. I'm just
kind of like, yeah, yeah, and what I mean, you
can't get a one for me? Are you kidding? I mean,
and why would I give up a one? And I'm
just like, oh, yeah, right, I can see that being
just like a lawsuit city, just like when Bill came
here from the Jets. You know, literally, that's exactly what
I feel like we're getting ready to go through all

(35:45):
over again, except on the other shoes on the other foot.

Speaker 4 (35:50):
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. Like I heard the
tail end of what you and v were talking about,
the different location. Yeah, one that makes a ton of
sense to me is like fall a certain way is Dallas,
where if they go one and done or like torpedo
out of the playoffs. I think Jerry's going to look
to move on from Mike McCarthy, and then I think

(36:10):
Bill can, like, really, I think he's gonna want to
go somewhere where he can win now. You know, I
don't think he's going to want to be a part
of a rebuild, and some of the rebuilding teams, I
don't know why they would want, but.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Would he Chris? But Chris, would he go somewhere where
he won't make the call on buying the groceries.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
So that's the thing that's essentially the conflation that he'd
have to I think he'd have to make if he
wants to go to a win now seat, is that
he has to take a step back from personnel just coach.
And I wonder if that's something that he's ready for
at this point where we've heard him more this year
than any other year before, and like some of that's
the record, of course, but just talk about how you
know it, No, no one person can do all personnel

(36:49):
and all coaching, like you need a.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Lot of other people involved.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
And he's like kind of distanced himself from the personnel
stuff in a way that he has never really before.
You know, it's always been you know, it's Bill's shows.
It all runs through him, and at a certain level
it does. But he's talked about it more plainly this
year than.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
He ever had before.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, And I could see him saying, well, maybe I
could coach another three or four years, even if I,
you know, had less job stress. And I think giving
up the decision making process would probably lend itself to that.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
No, Yeah, I would agree. And he he always raves
about Dallas's roster, like anytime this game, earlier this year.
He speaks so highly of you know, the Pro bowlers
on there and everything. He has a good relationship with
Stephen Jones, So I think that he'd probably be happy
to like splide in somewhere and just coach.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Ah such issues that we have to deal with. We
can't talk about x's and o's and football and you know,
receivers getting open deep. Oh, we could talk about that
because the Patriots don't have any. So I think that's
you know, pretty clear to see. And I'm not you know,
you know, playing straight man to my own joker here
at the same time. I mean, it's a it's a
legitimate problem. I just I mentioned to Evan a little

(38:01):
bit earlier. Again, Chris Mason from Maasslive dot com joining us.
I mentioned it earlier. I said, you know, this is
the first time really since nineteen ninety that I can
recall going into a Patriots football game knowing full well
that they had zero shot. Zero shot. Now I gave

(38:21):
him a shot against the Giants because the Giants are
almost as pathetic as they are on offense, and clearly
I think the Patriots do have at least something left
on defense because they're without their two best athletes and
they're still holding people down. They limited the Giants to
two hundred and twenty yards last week and ten points.
The problem is largely, almost entirely on the offensive side

(38:42):
of the ball, and it's an absolute nadir of ineptitude.
It's just it's you can't go beyond bottom where this
team has gone, and so where do you start building
back up? And you know, Bill O'Brien said this week
to you guys, to all the reporters, he said, you know,
it starts with me. I'm just as much of fault
as anybody else here. And I'm para phrasing what he said,

(39:05):
but I'm like, well, thank god, somebody's standing up. You know.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
Yeah, there's there's definitely plenty of blame to go around,
and what you're saying about it going into games expecting
losses is still kind of taking some getting used to
this year, where there have been a couple of times where,
like after he got skunked by Dallas, I remember being like,
all right, but there's no way that, like Derek Carr
comes into Foxborough and beats Noll Belichick and like puts
a nail in that coffin, right, Like, that's not gonna happen.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
And then they get.

Speaker 4 (39:31):
Blown out in that game. They don't just lose, they
get blown out. And there's a little more of the
same thing this week, right where it's like, well, there's
no way that Belichick's gonna lose to Tommy DeVito, right,
Like that just can't happen, and then it does.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
So you know, just that reality now.

Speaker 4 (39:46):
Is just happening.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
His name rolling off the tongue just doesn't compute Bill
Belichick and Tommy DeVito. What what really goodness? I just
that one blew me away. I said, you're and I thought,
just like everybody else says, there's no way Bill can
lose to Tommy DeVito. Yeah, just not damned if they
didn't figure why to way to do it, and and
and the other thing that really bothered me I think

(40:08):
from something that just hurt me in my soul as
a as a as a football fan, right, not so
much as a Patriots you know, you know, talk show
host or a Patriots employee or whatever, but as a fan,
it hurt my soul because here's a two and eight
football team playing for a freaking tie. What are we doing?

Speaker 4 (40:30):
That last drive was crazy? Bill's Bill's explanation for it too,
where he's like, well, we weren't doing that because like,
well we we threw on second down, it didn't end
around on third. It's like what, Yeah, Like you're watching
the entire tempo of that drive, the entire pacing is like,
you're clearly playing for a field goal. You can take
a shot at the end zone.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, I mean if you were going to play, Yeah,
if you wanted to go for the win, you're going
to take a shot at the end zone. The problem
is this offense can't take a shot at the end zone.
There's not enough time for quarterback to find a guy.
There's not enough time for the receivers to get open
if they even run the right roots. There's just there's
nothing there. And so that's why they're forced to do
jet sweeps and into rounds and bubble screens and oh

(41:12):
my lord, I mean you know, how many passes did
they have actually that traveled longer than ten yards on
Sunday It had to be single digits completed.

Speaker 4 (41:22):
It was very, very few, I can tell you that.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
I mean, that's just it's not I mean, I mean, hell,
let's go back, let's run the wishbone, because at least
it would surprise the crap out of people. You know,
that's I mean, I'm just like, wow, this is it
almost doesn't compute. And so while Bill O'Brien has rightfully
taken some of his share of the blame, and to
me he's been one of the greater disappointments of the year.

(41:47):
If mac Jones is disappointment, won, bill O'Brien is one
A as far as I'm concerned. And then you probably
put Troy Brown on the receiving core. There is one B,
if not higher, you can make a case for all
of them. And then one C would happen to be
the overall performance of the offensive line, which by the way,
has been at least steady, if unspectacular over the last

(42:07):
several weeks, you know, because they've finally gotten guys healthy,
even though it's still not the complete offensive line they
thought they would have, but at least we have seen
a little bit of an upward tick here. So I'm
just like, well, one problem, we got to another. We
got to another, we got to another, and it's like,
you know, this is where you think Jenga and you
pull out the center block and everything falls down and

(42:29):
you start over.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
Yeah, I agree, and like the offensive line has stabilized
a bit. And that was after they moved to Mike
on Winder out to tackle, which is one of those
things it's like why did this take so long and
why have you been so like averse to doing it?
Where the second that happened, it was like, you know,
they're not a perfect offensive line, but they looked a
heck of a lot better than they did when they
were rotating other.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Guys at right tack.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
I don't know why that was such a complicated move
for them, but yeah, to the Jena point, it's like
this entire offense has been like, well, is it the
chicken or the egg? Is the offensive line or is
the wide receivers not getting opened? Or is it Mac
Jones not playing well? It's all of them, like we
have enough evidence that like nothing on this offense has
worked and nothing is nothing's gone well.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Well.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
One of the things Chris, that I liked about, you know,
the piece that you wrote a mass Live, was that
you know you quoted Uh, let me see if I
can find it here. Okay. Uh, mister Kraft says, okay,
Because without a good coach and a good quarterback, no
matter how good the other players are, I don't think
you can win consistently. Hopefully, I believe we have both
an outstanding coach and a good young prospect. Is he delusional?

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (43:37):
That hasn't aged well, has it?

Speaker 3 (43:38):
No?

Speaker 4 (43:40):
And that's that's why I mean, he has to know though,
and I think that's why you're gonna see you and.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
We should mention. We should mention. Put in context. He
said this, what a year two gear two years ago?
A year ago, that was the quote that you used
in the story.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
It was after it was after Max rookie year.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Okay, two years ago. Yeah, so two years ago he
said that. And now things have changed, and I wonder
if he still believes the same way he does, And
if he doesn't, that's why I offer up the three scenarios,
but clearly something has to happen.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
Yeah, and I think scenario two there the mutual party
of ways where they go their separate ways. But I
think that's where you're going to see this offseason, which
seems crazy, but you know, things have gotten that bad.
And that's just the reality that the Patriots are looking
at right now.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Right, We're all gonna stare at the opposing sideline this
Sunday in Foxborough and wonder if the hoodie is going
to be wearing a baby blue and gold.

Speaker 4 (44:33):
What a look that would be?

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Huh right? Right?

Speaker 4 (44:36):
You are you allowed to cut the sleeves off the
baby blue hoodies?

Speaker 1 (44:39):
I don't. That's a great question. I mean, I remember
the first I'm old enough to remember when I saw
Vince Lombardi coach the Washington then Redskins. Okay, when he
left Green Bay, and I'm thinking, that doesn't work, And
you know what, it didn't. It didn't. It didn't last
very long.

Speaker 4 (44:58):
And so you know Montana, Yes, Montana, and the chief
uniform right where the only time this has actually.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Worked is Brady right, right, that's exactly right. Montana wearing
a chiefs uniform is like man, that's just not right.
There's something that just you know, we we've angered the
football gods with that move, and you know, and the
move that generally, you know, don't appease the football gods
usually don't work out, and with the one exception being
Tom Brady, which kind of adds to the mystique and

(45:24):
you know, the whole you know Tom Brady thing. And look,
I'm not one to get into the you know, which
one is better Brady or Belichick argument. I think you
can make arguments on both sides of it here. I
think it is kind of underscores the fact how unique
a talent Tom really was and how no one really
appreciated what kind of a talent he really was until
it was too late to do anything about it, and

(45:45):
then he was already gone. And I think that's also
part of the blame that you know, coach Belichick has
to share, and also the crafts have to share in
the whole TV twelve, you know, exiting Stage South for
Tampa when that happened a few years ago.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
Yes, and that was just on a two year, fifty
million dollars deal. You know, he just wanted twenty five
million dollars a deal per year and you know, I
don't think that could have aged any worse for the Patriots.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Right, No, So that's why you know, we we kind
of bring it back full circle here and you know,
and where do you go from here? And you know,
I think we take it on a week to week basis,
and I wouldn't be at all surprised uh to see uh,
you know, coach Belichick uh continue to operate like this
every week where just like Rex Ryan you know, railed
about him this week and you know, playing you know,

(46:30):
uh foot seat Pardon me, I had to say that, uh,
you know, with with the Patriots quarterbacks, uh, you know,
every week. And I think that's going to continue for
the rest of the year. I think if he's true
to his word, and we've known Bill to largely be
true to his word, uh, you know, and to stay
pretty consistent, if not, you know, agonizingly consistent, uh, that
each week will be a competition. And why shouldn't it be,

(46:51):
Because if you're a football team that's two and nine,
as this team is now, you've got to figure out
what's capable and what you need to move on from.
And there's no better way to do that than to
consider these last six weeks of the regular season to
consider them extended preseason for next year, a jump on
summer of twenty twenty four. That's what they should be doing,

(47:14):
and everybody should be fighting for a job every week.
What do you think?

Speaker 4 (47:18):
I agree, And I think you're gonna see more of
that too, or even last week you saw way more
Taekwon Thornton kaishon booty than you have where you know,
I think the young guys are going to get out there.
Based on what we saw at practice today in the
brief media window, it looked like Bailey's out jumps Mac
on the depth chart here where Mac didn't throw any passes,
Bailey was throwing almost the whole time. Yep, So you know,
maybe he gets a look.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
And at this point, I.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
Feel like those two quarterbacks are kind of competing for
a backup job next year, where like I don't think
he is going to be the starter at the time
next year, but no, do I think one of them
sticks around as a backup.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, yeah, nor do I think Mac will be either.
So that's you know, that's just me.

Speaker 4 (47:53):
I think you're just going to see open tryouts now
down the line, like they need to know who's a keeper,
who's not?

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah, it has to be that way. That's the only
logical move that really bears going forward here. And whether
or not Bill adheres to that or whether or not
the Crafts believe in that. I mean, I think, you know,
the next six weeks should probably tell a lot. So,
I mean, final one for you here, Chris, and thanks
for the time today. Is the game on Sunday winnable
for the New England Patriots?

Speaker 4 (48:21):
Ultimately? I think, see this is like what we were
talking about earlier, right where you suck yourself.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
Into every week, like, yeah, is Bill really going to.

Speaker 4 (48:27):
Lose to this Chargers defense? It's been so bad?

Speaker 3 (48:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (48:30):
And you do that and you think, like, you know,
you think like it's five years ago and it's not
so Hipothetically, is it winnable?

Speaker 5 (48:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (48:37):
Will they win it?

Speaker 3 (48:38):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah. That's kind of my same feeling because I thought
that they would beat the Giants too. You know, I
would have I mean, if had I been a gambling man,
I think I would have, you know, put a large
sum on the Patriots last week, just based on the
way things were, that someone was gonna get ped and
and just t off they're not.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
Capable coming off a buy no less.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Yeah, just they're not cable. And Bill has had a
good track record through his years coming off of buye
until the last couple of years. Last couple of years,
he's been miserable coming off the buye, which is why
you probably should pay attention to these things, because there's
something about these trends here, right. But I'm just I'm
kind of with you on this. I mean, I think
it will take a bolt part in the pun, It'll
take a bolt of lightning to change things. And maybe

(49:22):
that's what these guys are waiting for. They're not taking
matters into their own hands. They're waiting for something to happen,
and it ain't happening. So if we get to the
end of the season, then it'll happen in that you know, postseason, Okay,
what do we do from here? Meeting? And that's when
the contention undoubtedly will rise and we'll all talk about
it and no pining about it and won't have a

(49:42):
single factor in it at all, because that's just you know,
it's between you know, it's between the muckety MUCKs here. Chris,
thank you for the time today, greatly appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
You got it.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Thanks, you got it. Chris Mason. He is at Chris
Mason underscore. I have to look at his Twitter. I
hadn't found it. X. Find it. You want to find it, Matt,
He's got it right here. I want to be sure
to get it right in case you're not following him.
You gotta be able to follow the guy properly, right, Okay,

(50:11):
at by christ may I know it was something a
little different in there. Okay, So at by Chris Mason
on X and that's where you can find him. Fernanda
Ramirez will join us on the Chargers coming up at
the top of the hour. Russell Baxter at the bottom
of the next hour on Week thirteen around the NFL,
we'll get his thoughts on coaching history and how it

(50:31):
normally for the greatest that I've ever coached this game
of the NFL, how their careers have just about all
crashed and burned at the end, maybe with one exception.
We'll talk about that exception coming up with Russell Baxter
the bottom of the hour. In I meantime, our good buddy, Eldred.
I hope you're safe in North Carolina. Eldred, how you

(50:57):
doing it, mister legend. Yeah, baby, it's all good. Get
out of your freaking way, all right.

Speaker 5 (51:01):
Oh yeah, they need to but right now from the
goal because I'm off okay early, if it didn't get off.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
Of nice nice Okay. I like that, that works, that works, yes, sir, Yes, sir,
all right, what do you so? So? So what do
you what are you thinking about? I know because you've
been on hold, so you heard most of this conversation here.
I'm just kind of curious to what you think your
thoughts are.

Speaker 5 (51:21):
Uh. I would try to trade him, but but like
but like y'all said, he probably don't want to do that.
And part of the way is probably the best way. But
if it has to fire, h yeah, because this can't
is it?

Speaker 3 (51:38):
In it?

Speaker 5 (51:38):
Rand? His course?

Speaker 6 (51:39):
Here?

Speaker 5 (51:40):
You know, I can see if he, you know, has
the talent here there or did some things a little different,
you know, and that you know, but where you handled
the last I ain't gonna say the years with the
last couple years with Brady, but I'm talking about after Brady.
You know, it's just a trocan anybody else y'all we've

(52:00):
been laughing out and I didn't ruin the quarter back
or but.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
They what they normally do.

Speaker 5 (52:05):
That's that I understand he won six six Super Bowls,
kid super Bowl appearance, won six, but we should have
had eight six those two kas of giants. I can't
live that down with the family because they keep giving
the about that.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
You know, but.

Speaker 5 (52:21):
I think it's it's time to let go and Troy
Brown let his butt go to set him away, get
to get another wide receiver coche see.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
And I had to ask that question at the topic.
It's quite frankly, Uh, it's it's just it's almost heresy
to to speak of of not only Bill Belichip with
Troy Brown in that regard, don't you think I mean?
Because Brown was it was a great player here. He
was one of those guys that always did more with less.
He was an undervalue, undersized guy when he first came
to New England. Of course, I think we know the story,

(52:53):
and he was an overachiever of to the nth degree.
And now you know, in coaching, it just hasn't translated
as well to the point now where you know, he
actually might be a pretty good coach. But the guys
that he has, you know, in the receiver's room right now,
for whatever reason, are just fundamentally flawed in some form
or fashion, and Troy isn't making him any better.

Speaker 5 (53:16):
I don't buy that. I don't buy if, sir, if
you're a good coach, if you're a good coach, especially
with wide receiver and stuff, you know, I'm going wide receiver,
I'm going defense, I'm going offense.

Speaker 4 (53:30):
So that's what I.

Speaker 5 (53:31):
Like anyway, is the way you get somebody. You can
tell from from day one what that guy got, what
he doesn't have, and you can work on the shortcomings.
But it being working with him and it ain't showing
week to week, day to day, week to week. Then
you cut that guy or you or you fign another one.
You know, you can't keep getting wide receivers. I mean

(53:52):
all the all the draft for the last four or
five years. I admit Harry was a big butt. You know,
Mitchell wasn't outline for everybody else to Cane h Douglas.
He's delivered the outrharming. You just need some little fundamentals. Okay, Toroy,
you played that position edeman what you called welker. They

(54:14):
played the position too, So if you play that position,
you all know the ends and out. But you're not
helping them. They ain't getting no separation, they ain't got
no spacing. And I know I'm mostly it's in place
play calling to but you still got a space when
you draw places, you got a space. Somebody running seven, eight,
by running ten, somebody running twelve, and it's the way

(54:34):
you run of fifteen. Sure, it's the way you run,
you know. But like I said, it's on him, it's
on him. Taekwon Thort. I admit, Troy, he wasn't a
speed guy. But you can't tell me. You can't show
him how to get off a jam.

Speaker 6 (54:52):
You had to.

Speaker 5 (54:53):
You did all your life in an affair. You had to,
you know, But you can't get him off of jam.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
You can't.

Speaker 5 (55:00):
So say, okay, we need a motion this guy because
he's like a little scream bean or whatever you want
to call it. He can't really get all pressed good,
you know, And then get him out in the office
and tell him run. Put that four tooth speed to you.
Don't be local like you're looking for a loaf of bread. Run,
you know. And if you don't sit.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Him, man, you need to you you need to mark
that because that was a very good eldrudism right there,
because we love you. We love you and we you know,
and and there are others that love you too, and
so we looked like that. So I had to I
had to give the Marina a little instruction here, and

(55:39):
he saluted me.

Speaker 6 (55:40):
Passion passionate about the team.

Speaker 5 (55:42):
I know you are and and and just losing things.
You know. It's just like I said before, everybody's off me.
Yet I'm gonna see it again. You could be the
greatest coach of all time, have the greatest schemes, the
greatest plays, the greatest whatever, but if you ain't got
the players to execute that, I'm just a coach holding the.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
You know, dude, you're one hundred percent right right and
and that's and that and that's That's the thing that
pains I think the most is that you have this
guy who clearly and Bill Belichick, who clearly has coached
circles around people over the years. Uh. And then over
the last few years, yes, very much so. And over
the last few years, personnel has slipped. I think attention

(56:24):
to detail has slipped. I think that discipline has slipped.
And I think this is a natural, yes, And I
think this is a natural byproduct of the aging process
and the stress in the business of pro football. And
I think as we all get older, we all slip.
And I've always told myself, and you can tell me

(56:44):
this too, older, because I consider you a friend, all right,
But when I slips, it's time for me to go. Okay,
I want to get out before I slip and fall
and break something. That's my issue. And I think and
and I think Bill has slipped, and I wonder if
when he falls, if something isn't going to break off.

(57:06):
And I think that's kind of where we are, if
we're going to use that analogy here. And so you know,
do we collect what we can get for him, or
do we just kind of pat him on the back
and send him off into the rocking chair? Or do
we let him continue the course because his job is
unfinished and because we owe it to him because he's
won six trophies here in Foxborough?

Speaker 3 (57:27):
No way in hell, excuse me.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Okay, no way, tell me exactly how you feel.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
Right.

Speaker 5 (57:36):
I gave a question to the PEU group. They say,
mister Kraff, They decide to go ahead, keep sayings as
are he come back nixt year? Okay? We got the
top two to the sixth sick.

Speaker 3 (57:51):
Did you trust be with that pick?

Speaker 5 (57:53):
And I show hell, don't.

Speaker 6 (57:55):
So that he'll come down.

Speaker 5 (57:58):
Yeah, I mean trade, don't try to get just that debt.
So you missed out on the quarterback, you miss out
on Marvin Harrison. But here there's a bunch of good
wire received in this group, especially the two guys in Texas.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
And well, I'm a pig. You know that I'm a
particular fan of Xavier Worthy. But I would tell you
this about Worthy. Worthy has issues holding under the ball
on occasion. I don't think his his uh, his ball
safety is is very good. I think he's I think
he's you know, like you described, sometimes he carries it
like a loaf of bread. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (58:31):
So, but I forgot who they played, but I saw
that too.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
Yeah, but there there, there is. There is no doubt
in my mind watch the Big Twelve Championship game this week.
There's no doubt in my mind that he probably is
the fastest guy with a football in his hands in
the country in college football. And I would love to
see Xavier Worthy in Texas match up in the playoff
against Georgia, in particular because I think Texas is the
one team that matches up with Georgia based on what

(58:58):
I've seen of these two teams this year, and why
can't we get a talent like that, because I think
he would be available likely in the second round.

Speaker 5 (59:06):
And the sucking duck it and third our theme from
the pre raft because I'm working on my board a
little bit. But I also like Johnny Wilson out of.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
Out of my out of my college.

Speaker 5 (59:14):
I like Florida State. I hate called Jordan's Jordan's Travis
got hurt because he was he was gonna go into
futum rising up and they undefeated. I don't know how
how it's gonna look out, you know, work out the
rest of the season if he's down, But I'm hoping
that we we be fighting for the championship against Georgia
or whoever.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
I gotta tell you, I don't. I don't like your
chances after Jordan went down. I just don't like the
chances overall.

Speaker 5 (59:38):
I don't either after Jordan or down, I don't either.
I don't easther, but.

Speaker 6 (59:42):
But the others.

Speaker 5 (59:43):
But Johnny Wilson six Steven outside got a little speed
catch and like I said, he's going in the top top,
sucking round, sucking, sucking round, my third sucker and then uh,
next time I got my little board or whatever, and
I'm gonna I'm gonna text it. Okay, maybe about a
couple of days.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
I'm still looking okay, whatever, all right, I'll look. Yeah,
I look forward to seeing that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
I like.

Speaker 5 (01:00:06):
I like Pennis. I like Penn out of Washington because
he's accurate. If I keep saying, I don't think he
got his loan ball.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
No, I like the fact that he's a lefty. Yeah,
I like I like yeah exactly. I gotta tell you.
The guy that's impressed me the most overall this year.
The guy that's impressed me the most, and I didn't
think he had it in him, but maybe it's because
he has the supporting talent is bo Nicks.

Speaker 5 (01:00:28):
Oh Nicks.

Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
No, I'm not impressed.

Speaker 5 (01:00:30):
Why why I'm not impressed.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Well, just just because of the offense that they run
at Oregon O.

Speaker 5 (01:00:37):
It and Jeff, I don't know, It's like somebody and
he just a couple of couple of good teams and
it just didn't look right, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
But there's a guy that you could pick up, you know,
in in the in you know, after the first round.
I think although he might be working himself, he might
be working himself into that equation before all of a sudden,
especially if Oregon, you know, ends up winning the title.

Speaker 5 (01:00:58):
Yeah, yeah, because he working his way up, because right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Yeah, correct, all right, another conversation for another day. Well
we'll worry about that another day, right, all right, all right, brother, yeah, yeah,
love you, buddy. Eldrid in North Carolina driving that truck,
get the hell out of his way. Fernando Ramirez covers
the Los Angeles Chargers for uh The Sporting Tribune, and
he's kind enough to join us from the left coast

(01:01:22):
here inside of Patriot's Playbook. Hey Fernando, John Rook here
in Foxborough. Thanks for the time today, brother, Hey John,
thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:01:29):
So much for having me in. And uh hey it's
it's it's around twelve o'clock. We're barely getting up over here.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Oh stop it, I know, right, Son's just come up
this morning. Han't have my coffee yet, I know, believe me,
I get it. So I'm kind of curious because it
seems to me that more than than one or two
people are probably gonna think as they watched this game
unfold on Sunday here and on the East Coast that, Wow,

(01:01:59):
wouldn't it be weird if Bill Belichick is standing on
that sideline next year. Has that thought crossed anybody's mind
at all from a Charger perspective over the course of
the last I don't know, two to four weeks.

Speaker 6 (01:02:13):
I think it's a crossed their minds ever since two
thousand and one when they started winning championships over there.
But I mean when it comes to the media aspect
of it, the team and everything, no, I mean, everybody's
just focused on finishing the season and seeing how everything
kind of lays out. But when you look on Twitter
and social media, yeah, fans are throwing out his name,

(01:02:35):
they're throwing out Jim Harbaugh, They're throwing out Dan Quinn
names like that. But yeah, I mean the fans are.

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
Talking about it.

Speaker 6 (01:02:42):
But when it comes to everybody else, everybody's just focused.
The Chargers are obviously focused on trying to run the
table and squeeze into the playoffs like they did kind
of at the end of last season.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Yeah. Well, I was just going to ask you that
because after losing this past week, they're what four and
seven now, correct? Yes, So this team is four and seven.
Then how realistic is it considered what they have left
on the schedule for them to work themselves back into
a position they were in a year ago.

Speaker 6 (01:03:07):
To be completely honest, I just don't see it. You
don't have Mike Williams, you don't have Corey Linsley, Josh Palmer,
you don't know what's going on with him. The offensive
line is the mess. The running game can't get going.
The defense, yeah, they played well against the Ravens, but
they just have not been good at all this season.
And that's kind of Brandon Stealley's mo He's a defensive

(01:03:29):
mine and it just hasn't gotten going this year. So
it's not the same team as it was last year.
I think last year they they were fair. They had
a favorable end to the schedule. I mean, they played
Nick Boles, they faced Ryan beat Up, kind of Ryan Tannehill,
the Dolphins that just come back from being thrashed by
the forty nine ers, So they had some favorable stuff

(01:03:50):
all their way. I just don't think it's gonna happen.
I honestly said, I've been saying this lately. I don't
know if they win another game this year. Just that's
how tough this is this h stretch of the season.
It's you play Denver twice, you go to the Raiders,
it's just you play the Bills. So it's just a
tough ending to this schedule. So it's gonna be very

(01:04:11):
difficult to find a win or two and much less six.
Like that's just it's gonna be very tough.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Well, then it sounds to me like we might have
a we might have a stare down of the ok
Corral known as Jillette Stadium this Sunday with two teams
that really shouldn't win another game for the rest of
the year.

Speaker 6 (01:04:27):
To be quite honest with you, I mean, yeah, you're
you're completely right. And the thing is is that the
Chargers have struggled this year and and I mean lately
on offense, it's been the Keenan Allen and Justin Herbert show.
Other than that, no other offensive guy has kind of
stepped up to h to help out the offense. I mean,
there's been little contribution here there, but it hasn't been consistent.

(01:04:50):
That's the one thing. Justin and Keenan have been consistent,
but there's no other weapon on there. So I totally
I fully expect Bill Belichie to try and take a
way Keenan Allen on Sunday and let everybody else beat him.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Yeah. Well, that certainly has been the uh you know,
the descriptive form and that Bill has been known for.
But unfortunately, of late, it just seems like Bill can't
get out of his own way based on what the
offense has done, you know. And I would tell you
that defensively, whether you know, the Patriots are missing arguably
their two best athletes in Judon in Gonzales, you know

(01:05:25):
that they've been respectable, they haven't really been burnt. I
think they they tend to play really soft in the
defensive backfield, and I think we saw that this last
week because Tommy devitover the Giants actually you know, through
for you know, damn near two hundred yards on him,
and I'm just like wow, it was so justin Herbert
could have a field day if the Patriots defense is

(01:05:45):
playing you know, soft zone coverage, and I almost think
that they do that just so they don't get beat
over the top. But it's it's maddening to get yourself
in position where you can make a stop and get
off the field and to allow these this kind of
thing to happen. What do you think, like is the
best thing right now that the Chargers do for themselves
on the field over sixty minutes Keenan Allen.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
And Justin Herbert.

Speaker 6 (01:06:08):
To be honest, I mean that probably Keenan Allen's on
pace right now to have his best season as a
bro at thirty one years old. I mean he's at
eleven hundred, at seventy nine yards, he has seven touchdowns
and and in the last three games he's had one
seventy five, one sixteen and one oh fix. So he

(01:06:28):
really is playing at a at a high level. That
has to be the most part. That's probably the one
positive thing that you kind of take away from this season.
And obviously on the defensive side of the football, Khalil Max,
he's on pace also to have a career you're yes,
thirteen facts, he's two away from tying his career high
and three away from u surpassing that, and then he's

(01:06:49):
three and a half backs away from one hundred in
his career.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
So you might get that this weekend. You think so
he might. He might, and I'm not and I'm really
not trying to be funny I'm really not. I you know,
I really think, you know, because Mac is a guy
that I've always liked. I thought, I think his talent
is off the charts. But I'm just like, wow. I mean,
if I'm the Chargers and I really want to win
a game and i want to stop the naysayers, I'm

(01:07:14):
just like, you know, hey, we're four and seven, we
got to make something happen here, let's go, and I'm
turning them loose.

Speaker 6 (01:07:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:07:20):
No.

Speaker 6 (01:07:21):
Well, and the thing is too, is that.

Speaker 5 (01:07:24):
Mac.

Speaker 6 (01:07:24):
I mean, from an outsider looking in, it's like that
that first year with Josh McDaniels, everything was set up
correctly for him. McDaniels leaves and it's like everything else
has kind of been up and down with him. So
I think that kind of hurt him. But but yeah,
I'm sure the Charger will try and throw to the
kitchen sink, at at him and fresh him to try
and cost turnovers. But the Chargers corners have had a

(01:07:48):
rough go of it. I mean, we saw last week
that Brandon Staley benched Michael Davis in favor of Dean
Leonard and and Jozier Taylor their slow corner. Also, uh
saw any play it was it was other guys that
came up and played, and he said, we're gonna try
and be We're gonna have competition in here. We're not
just gonna let guys go out there and play if

(01:08:10):
they're hurting us and Michael Davis against the against the
Packers had two plays where he just missed, he whiffed
on tackles and another one was miscommunication with him and
Kenneth Murray. So so it just is the little things
are with's beating this team. I mean, realistically they could
be nine and two or or ten and one, write

(01:08:31):
something around there, but they just have not been able
to close out late games, which has really hurt them.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
And it sounds a lot like what's happened in New England,
except you just got, you know, a different quarterback and
a little more offense again. Fernando Ramirez, who covers the
Chargers for the Sporting Tribune, joining us here in the playbook.
So I'm wondering how you feel coach Daley has done
with what he has had to work with this year.
Has he lived up to it as he coached down
to it as he underperformed? What has he done with

(01:08:59):
the available talent?

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
If I can be.

Speaker 6 (01:09:02):
Completely honest, he's kind of followed the script of head
coaching tenyers under Thoms general manager Tom Celesto, Mike McCoy,
Anthony Lynn. Two good seasons to start off their career.
In the third one it starts going downhill. That's kind
of been the thing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
Year.

Speaker 6 (01:09:18):
I mean, first year they're nine and eight, they missed
the playoffs by uh by a miss tackle by a
mistackle that led to a field goal from the Raiders,
and then uh and then last year that everybody knows
about the what happened in Jacksonville, so they but they
made the playoffs and that just kind of been the

(01:09:38):
mo of of head coaches are under Tom Telesco, Mike McCoy,
the same thing, two good years. Uh, it went downhill
after the third and during the third one Anthony Lynn's
same thing. So the thing I'm proud Brandon Staley is
is that his defense is steadily declined in the in
the three years that he's been here, and it's kind

(01:09:59):
of like, well, that's where you spent all your money.
You went out, you got j C. Jackson, you went out,
you got Sebastian Joseph Day, you went out, you traded
for Khalil Mack. The one move that looks like it
was completely so the smartest move was trading for Khalil Mack.
I mean, the guy still has a lot left in
the tank. And I mean at thirteen sacks right now,
I mean, you've got to be really impressed at his age,

(01:10:20):
him still playing like that. But it's going to be
interesting to see what happens moving forward. But just the
defense has not played up to it. The offense is
banged up, and I know they came the next man
up mentality, but the next man up hasn't really helped
this team move along. And I know there's frustration because

(01:10:41):
I mean the struggles of Quintin Johnson, but then Dave
Flowers comes in here and he scored two touchdowns against you,
so obviously you're kind of like, well, where did they
go wrong with this? So it's just it's kind of
been interesting to see the way his thirty year is
kind of developed, but steadily the defense has declined.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
In my opinion, Well, I can see a lot of similarities,
a lot of parallels between what the Charges are going
through right now and what the Patriots are also right
now going through. And it looks like there's going to
be some sort of a meeting of the minds maybe
on both sides front offices. You know, once you know this,
you know, competitive season has has ended and then the
offseason competition begins. How are they stacked up in terms

(01:11:20):
of the salary cap and being able to go out
and attack free agency? And do you think they even
want to do that?

Speaker 6 (01:11:28):
I mean, to be completely honest, it's just going to
depend on who IF's running it right still here or yeah,
who's running it? But right now they're strapped for it
because they decided to restrore like push back Khalil Mack,
Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, and Joey Bosa's contract, and it

(01:11:48):
just feels like they're forty two million over the cap
next year. So it feels like two or maybe even
three of those guys will not be here next year,
right And as of right now, I mean, if I'm
the Chargers, I'm pushing to try and keep Palio McK
and keep Keenan Allen because those two guys have just
been monumental for their season. And I mean, without those

(01:12:08):
two guys this year, this this team is probably only
one one or two games just that. That's that's how
important those guys have been. But free agency, I I
just don't know how they're gonna attack it. I mean
they need help everywhere, they need tight end help. That's
why uh, Georgia's brought Bowers looked like a good uh.
He would be a solid addition for this team. It's

(01:12:32):
funny because you like when Justin was in his rookie year,
he really went to Hunter Henry on third down. Hunter
Henry and Keenan Allen were his third third down security blanket,
and you could tell he misses having a Hunter Henry
kind of follow a player, So go get him a
tight end.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
I was just gonna say. I was just gonna say,
we'll trade your Mike Gasicki for a fat burger.

Speaker 6 (01:12:57):
Hey, I know you guys. I thought you were say
in and out.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
I know you that in and out too. I love it.
But me when I'm in l A, I like fat
burgers myself. So that's that's just that's just me.

Speaker 6 (01:13:08):
You guys wouldn't miss the gritty. I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
You haven't had a chance to see the gritty. What
the hell is that I haven't even seen it? Holy smokes.
This this hasn't been a gritty kind of year. I
gotta tell you, you know, wow, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:13:26):
Yeah, And when when team when bad teams score touchdowns
and you see them dancing, you're kind of like, I
don't know, I don't know if you want to be
dancing out there just because it hasn't been that kind
of year.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Yeah, please don't dance.

Speaker 6 (01:13:38):
Yeah, this team assholes. They have a lot of holes
that they're gonna need to uh big before or going
into next season. I mean, and they're kind of shopped
for cash, so uh, they're going to have to have
a brilliant draft, which they really haven't had in a
long time.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
Yeah sounds like that, that sounds like it's me. Well, hey, Fernando,
I really appreciate the time today. This gives a little
bit of insight. It does. Look, hey, I got another
trade for you. How about Mac Jones for Justin Herbert.

Speaker 6 (01:14:11):
I don't think anybody over here would make that. No
fan base loves loves Justin Herbert. But I saw that
Bill Butchick had some really nice things to say about
about Justin Herbert, and you could.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
Tell that's because he's gonna coach him next year.

Speaker 6 (01:14:30):
So you think this weekend's an audition. It might be
might be I hey, you know what's here's a fun fact.
He's only two years younger than than owner Dean Stanos.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
Wow, yeah that's true. They are in there. Yeah, okay,
well then maybe you know, hey, maybe they decided to
hook up, like uh, you know Robert Crafton Bill Belichick did.
Who knows. I'm just saying, you do need a culture changer.

Speaker 6 (01:14:53):
I mean, they haven't had it since Martin Sean. When
Martin Schottenheimer came in here, he changed everything. I heard
one quick story. I heard her that one day they
came out sluggish out of the locker room. They weren't
practicing well. An hour into practice, Marty says, you know what,
everybody goes back into the locker room, get out of
your gear, get back into your street flows, and then
we're gonna jump back into our gear and we're gonna

(01:15:14):
come back out of here and we're restarting practice. And
that everybody's like, are you serious? And he and he
started cussing up a storm and everybody ran. Everybody ran
in change and then changed back and came out and
had a great practice. So so yeah, so you you
need somebody like that to kind of change what's going on.
And who knows, maybe maybe he is, but as.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
Right now, I mean, I gotta tease their guy, I
gotta tell you I and sure I understand that, and
it wouldn't surprise me if it stayed that way. But
then again, nothing would surprised me in the NFL these days.
But I said this early on our show today that
I am of the opinion that the Charters organization, based
on what little we know being here on the East Coast,
Trackers organization, looks like somebody that could use an attitude change,

(01:15:57):
an attitude adjustment, a bump up in stock, because not
only you know, are you talking about the entire NFL
or you know, you know, talking about you know, the uh,
the the league, but you're talking about in the city
of Los Angeles against the Rams too. I mean, you
gotta you fight for you know, uh, newspaper time, airtime
of the TV, airtime of the radio. Uh you know,

(01:16:18):
uh airtime. You know everywhere you fight for time. I'm
sure inside the stadium.

Speaker 6 (01:16:23):
Yeah no, and right now you're getting it for negative reasons.
Anybody starting off with the Chargers, right, But it's that trash.
It's to trash the owner, trash the general manager, trash
the coach, and even people have been trashing the quarterback.
And it's like, really like this, this kid's sounded. But
like you said, attitude adjustment. Yeah so, but but maybe
a Massachusetts guy like John Tena could come in here.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
And give this attitude.

Speaker 6 (01:16:46):
How do you like that one? I'm a WWE.

Speaker 3 (01:16:48):
Guy, as you can tell.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
Yes, I noticed they're on your on your ex feed. Yeah, absolutely,
one hundred percent. I see uh oh yeah see, I
see triple A right there already. So we're we're all set.
I like it. John Cena would be a good addition.
It would be a total go to this.

Speaker 6 (01:17:00):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Yeah, Hey, Fernando really appreciate the chat man, Thanks for
the stories, Thanks for the insight.

Speaker 6 (01:17:05):
Appreciate it of course, Thank you so much, and happy
holidays to everybody. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:17:10):
Same to you, Same to you, Fernando Ramirez. You can
follow him at real f Ramirez r E A L
F R A M I R E Z on X.
That's where you find him. Rights for the Sporting Tribune.
He covers the Los Angeles Chargers. I haven't slipped once today.
And called them the San Diego Chargers. Not once. That's good.

(01:17:31):
I'm proud of myself better than Bill. Yeah right, did
he do that today? Holy crap? See man, yikes. Huh
eight five five pats five hundred. Russell Baxter joined us
in just a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:17:46):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
Jake is calling us from the land down under, Australia. Hey, Jake,
how are you? You're in the playbook?

Speaker 6 (01:17:53):
Hey god?

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
You going gooday? Gooday?

Speaker 3 (01:17:55):
Mate?

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
How are you?

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (01:17:57):
No, too bad?

Speaker 3 (01:17:58):
Just getting ready for what?

Speaker 6 (01:18:00):
Shoot off for the day?

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
Okay, shoot out? What's the temperature down there?

Speaker 6 (01:18:03):
That's the summertime, right, It's meant to be some But
where I am now, we've had nothing but running for
the last two days.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
Oh that sucks. Sorry, that's not some fun.

Speaker 3 (01:18:13):
But that's what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
Yeah, of course, of course, So tell me get yeah,
give me your perspective. Tell me what you do with Bill?
I mean all of the above. What are you thinking here?

Speaker 6 (01:18:25):
Bill?

Speaker 7 (01:18:26):
I think his time is done, depending on whether he
gets stacked or tried it. Whichever way, I feel like, Yeah,
we need it not fresh all the way through.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
Yeah, and I think that's probably the overwhelming sentiment. But
I think we also have to realize reality, and the
reality is that the Crafts own this team. The Crafts
are going to be forever indebted to Bill Belichick for
you know, basically turning their one hundred and seventy million
dollar investment into something that's worth currently seven billion dollars

(01:18:59):
in dollars of course, but hey, no matter what dollar
it is, that's a heck of a lot of chump change.
And so you know, and and when you have you know,
the trophies, and you know, you have the cachet, and
you have you know, people taking potshots at you because
you know, now you stink. I mean, that just tells
me that you've been somewhere and you like where you've been,
and you're indebted to the guy who brought that to you,

(01:19:21):
and that's Bill Belichick. And that's why this is not
an easy decision.

Speaker 7 (01:19:26):
That all of that is very true. But at the
end of the day, where is the business thought of
it coming for them? And to that, I say, right,
we haven't won for the last five years.

Speaker 3 (01:19:37):
Now, yeah we want to go forward?

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
Yeah, no, I listen, I'm with you on that one.
And I think a lot of people, no matter where
you are on this planet and if you follow the
Patriots at all, a lot of these people are realizing,
you know, love Bill, very happy for Bil, God blessed Bill,
but it's time we got to move on. Because all
good things do come to an end. I mean, it's
just that way throughout history. So I mean the Roman

(01:19:59):
Empire did less for other either. So you know, the
Patriot Empires has fallen after twenty years and that's just
how it works nowadays. So it shouldn't be well, how
do we keep the empires? Like, how do we re
establish it? How do we you know, build it back
up from the ashes that it has gone through over
the last couple of years, And is build the guy
that can be the architect to bring us back to

(01:20:21):
where we were? And I would argue now that I
think in a lot of ways the best way is
to come in with a fresh new attitude and thought
process in terms of building, because look, this is all
recycled stuff. Nobody's nobody's a freaking genius anymore. Okay, everybody

(01:20:42):
you know borrows and steals and does this and does
that from other people that they've worked with and worked for.
Bill did that through all of his coaching influence over
the years, a lot of his you know, success, he
knows he owes to build parcels, for that matter. So
it's that way all throughout coaching. This is very much
a sport where everybody bastardizes everybody else. And I mean
that in a positive sense. But every once in a

(01:21:03):
while you get a genius. Every once while, you get
a trendsetter. Every once in a while you get a
mouse Davis who creates the run and shoot offense, and
you know, or you go five wide and you learn
how to make it work in the NFL, because for years,
the National Football League was nothing but three yards and
a cloud of dust, and you know, and let's just
grind it out and let's beat people, you know, twenty
one to seventeen. And that's the way it works. And then,

(01:21:24):
of course the game has changed over the last thirty
years or so with more offense, and all of a sudden,
people are getting smart and they're saying, well, if we
do this, why can't we do this? You know, if
we can do this, then why don't we put this
guy out? And why don't we go get guys that
run four twos and YadA YadA, And it evolves and
I think lately, Jake, we've seen the game begin to

(01:21:44):
evolve back toward more of a defensive standpoint. We're seeing
more and more supercharged offenses really find that they have difficulty,
especially if they don't have the right trigger, you know,
a signal caller, try to find that fine line. Yes.

(01:22:08):
And so unless you got somebody who can throw those darts, uh,
you're going to struggle with some of this offense. And
I think the Patriots are in this transformation right now.
Mac is not the guy that they need to run it.
It's unfortunate we've seen that, but I think this year
has pretty much told us a lot about that.

Speaker 5 (01:22:25):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
And the question now is build a guy to run it?
And and I listen, I know why a lot of
people feel like you do. I really do. I understand.
I just don't know if that is the best way
to go about it here. And I guess maybe we'll
know a little bit more in about six weeks.

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
I'd say, well, very bad.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
Yeah, I mean, that's all we can really do, right.
Who's worth keeping? Who's worth keeping? Who are your favorite players?
Who do you feel like this team can help build on.

Speaker 7 (01:23:00):
That's a tough one.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
I mean do you. Yeah, yeah, run yeah, Diamond doesn't right, Yeah,
I would agree with that. No, I think Remandre is
worth keeping. I'll be honest with you. I think Ezekiel
ellioto'ld be worth keeping, you know, because he's good as
a change of pace guy, and you know, and he
can still show he's got a little life left in
his legs. I don't think they'll resign him, but I

(01:23:23):
think if they did, I wouldn't have an issue with it.
I certainly wouldn't have an issue if they Yeah, I
wouldn't have an issue if they resigned Hunter Henry. I
wouldn't have an issue with that at all, because I
think he's got some talent. I think Mike Gaziki can
pound sand. I think that there are some other there
are some other guys in that offensive line that can
pound sand. I think when you is probably a guy
that if they keep him out of tackle, there's a

(01:23:44):
guy that you know could be there, uh for you.
I'm not sure Trent Brown is, But then again, if
you don't, well, I think you got to keep him.
I know you got him under contract. I think for
one more year. I don't have the contracts of the
stats in front of him here, but I think you
got to keep him.

Speaker 3 (01:24:01):
But yeah, if he didn't come.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
Back, yeah, yeah, No, I don't know, nobody's gonna lose
any sleep. But I think you need to have at
least somebody's got to experience playing the position and maybe
draft to tackle. And I think then you you know,
we're kind of three person rotation or whatever. Uh you know,
I think the guards will be okay. I think we
all like the you know, the center, So I mean,
I think the line is really one player away from
solidifying itself. Somewhat you could use, you know, another tied end.

(01:24:29):
And obviously as far as the wide receiving Corps is concerned, Look,
I don't really care if I see any of those
guys back. I really don't. If they go, I wish
them well. But it didn't work here. And I don't
know if that's more because they don't have the talent
or because the offensive scheme just is not fitting what
they do. It might be both, might be a little both,

(01:24:54):
So it kind of adds to the frustration. I wrote
a column earlier this week about you know, how you know,
and I sort of said it halfway tongue in cheek
and halfway in jest that I really didn't think this
Patriot team was that far away, and people are like
looking at me and rolling their eyes, and I'm like, well, wait, wait, wait,
hold on, hear me out, hear me out. They're really
not that far away, because when you consider what this
team has done defensively, and again, I know they're not playing,

(01:25:16):
you know, championship contenders every week, but when you consider
what they've done defensively without arguably they're too bad. Maybe
even inarguably they're two best players on the defensive side
of the ball. They've held people down, they've held teams down.
The defensive line is solid, the linebacking corps is improved,
because the last couple of years they couldn't guard me
coming out of the backfield. The defensive backfield is where

(01:25:41):
they have the issues right now, largely because Christian Gonzales
I think kind of raises everybody's game. I think he
makes everybody better. But they play way too soft and
they're playing a lot, way too much zone and that's
how teams are beating them. And I can't believe that
the Patriots don't realize that because they continue to play
soft zone coverage and it just stinks to high heaven.

Speaker 7 (01:26:00):
So they didn't have any Liquordia replacement. And now we're
trying to try a bit and places everywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's right, but they really don't they We're
talking about a few tweaks and a few key ads here,
and you have to hope that in free agency. And
I expect the Patriots to be active in free agency.
They should be because they've got enough cap room to
play with. Then I you know, wow, I expect them

(01:26:27):
to be active. They just have to make the right
choices because when they, you know, went into free agency
a couple of years ago, other than Matt Judon, right,
you know, they're just.

Speaker 7 (01:26:41):
Coming back to find brand names and not off show yeah,
off market players.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
Yeah yeah, yeah, and and and and Honestly, I'm okay
with the philosophy of trying to find underpriced, undervalued free agents,
guys that play with a chip on the shoulder, because
that's really how we all know if you follow this
team at all, you know, that's how the quote unquote
Patriot Way was built on the backs of those guys,
you know, the undersize the Teddy Bruskis of the world,

(01:27:07):
is what I'm thinking. Of right, and and and they
came in and they and turned out spectacularly. And I
think you need to if you're if Bill's gonna be here,
that's the way you gotta go. If Bill's not gonna
be here, then I think the Crafts have to realize,
you know what, we're gonna have to open up the
pocketbook and we're gonna hit to go out and get
some of these high priced guys, and we're gonna have
to see if we can, you know, coach them up

(01:27:27):
the way that they want to be coached, which means
then you got to go find the right coach for
the right mentality for today's player. And I don't even
know if Bill's that guy either, because this is a
different player today than it was twenty years ago when
he first started coaching here.

Speaker 7 (01:27:41):
And then that's where it comes into. Twenty years ago
and when we had the bonancy starting, people wanted to
come and play for us. Yes, yeah, it's still still here.
People are gonna want to come and play for Bill,
knowing that the last Bulls past seasons stick they even
have been.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
Yeah, I don't ca right, I don't know. And that's
a great question. You ask a very good question. And
the answer to that is, I don't think so, because
they're like, ay, all right, first of all, the Patriots,
you know, stink on ice number one and number two.
How much longer is Bill going to be here? So
why wouldn't New England be considered a destination point right now?
They're not? And I think that's got to be And

(01:28:20):
I'm glad you brought that up, Jake, because that's got
to be a major consideration for the crafts when they
decide if Bill is still our guy, Because if you
can't attract you know, as my grandmother used to say,
if you can't attract flies with honey, all you got
left is vinegar, and you're not going to attract flies.

Speaker 3 (01:28:40):
That's a thing.

Speaker 1 (01:28:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's true. But it's true. If you've got
nothing to offer guys, why do they want to come
with you when you know they might be able to get,
you know, maybe a little less money somewhere else, but
they got a chance to win. See. That's that's my
whole thing. And so that's why I was pointing out
this week. I said, you know what, Okay, it's a
legitimate argument, but on the defensive side of the ball,

(01:29:03):
I don't think the Patriots really all that far away.
You put a healthy Matt jude On and a healthy
Christian Gonzales back into the fold, and if you can
keep things relatively healthy where you've got him right now,
you're competitive. You have a top ten defense in the NFL.
You have a top ten defense, maybe arguably top five
or six. I think they're eighth in rush defense right

(01:29:26):
now without those two guys. So I mean, you're you're
still got an opportunity here to be competitive, and I
think you know, the major issues all lie on the
other side of the ball and whether or not Bill
is the guy that can fix those problems. What else
you got, Jacob?

Speaker 7 (01:29:44):
What else? The race signing of Will Green?

Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
Yeah? Okay, well, you know, if you're gonna resign him, great,
let's see what he's got, give him a shot, because
that's what that's what the next six weeks have to be. Yeah,
that's what the next six weeks have to be. The
next six weeks have to be an extended UH summer
training camp. That's what it has to be. It has
to be run with that kind of a mindset.

Speaker 7 (01:30:09):
Going to be out means to Dinesota State.

Speaker 1 (01:30:11):
Yeah, that's exactly right, training him.

Speaker 7 (01:30:14):
In the way of the Patriots to keep him here
and everyone else.

Speaker 1 (01:30:19):
All yeah, that's one hundred percent right, And I would
be surprised if if Ma's not a part of it.
Then even though he's under contract, I think he should
be kept around at least as a backup or a
stop gap. But you know, is one of these two guys,
you know, whether it's Bailey or Cunningham or even Will Grew,
one of these guys you know, potential to stick around
as a potential backup. Uh, You're not looking at a

(01:30:41):
long term starter here. That's that may be more than
just a year down the line, depending on where you
draft and who you draft.

Speaker 7 (01:30:49):
So many easterant questions which way we can go and conco.

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
And uh, yes, sir, you are correct. Hey, I appreciate
you taking the time. Whereabouts in Australia you call him from,
I mean.

Speaker 7 (01:31:01):
Bendy Go, which is about and a half away from Melbourne.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
Oh okay, excellent, excellent, The Olympics are coming to Melbourne
and not too far distant future. Yeah yeah, that one
failed to get to your outpost.

Speaker 3 (01:31:18):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (01:31:21):
I appreciate you, Jake, Thanks for being a fan.

Speaker 7 (01:31:24):
Thanks thanks for taking the coach John.

Speaker 1 (01:31:26):
Absolutely one, don't be a stranger. Jake's in Australia. Hey,
Patriots fans. If you want to see Toyota's best offers,
including those not seen on TV, go to buy at
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(01:31:49):
headquarters for quality Bridgestone tires. Visit Sullivantire dot com to
find a location near you.

Speaker 3 (01:31:56):
Real woman, good stock you from drinking yas.

Speaker 2 (01:32:01):
It's time to go around the NFL with football guru
Russell Baxter.

Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
Now the name is Flounder on Patriots playbook. How are
we doing today, Flounder?

Speaker 3 (01:32:15):
Well, I feel a lot in my soul.

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
Okay, you're you know what one thing I always love
about you, Russell when we talk is You've always got
an answer. You are never never at a loss for words,
which is remarkable. Good on you, brother.

Speaker 3 (01:32:34):
It's so funny you said that because one of my
favorite things that my mother ever said to me, was
I took her out the lunch just a long obviously
a long time ago. She went back to heaven and
nineteen ninety eight. And so we're at the lunch one day.
If I don't even remember what it was of what

(01:32:57):
I said to something she said, she just paused and
looked at me and said, you're just compelled to make
a comment, aren't you. Well course, but there's there's a
message behind the madness, because it is to elicit a smile,
it is to make someone laugh, and it's never to

(01:33:22):
be insulting. It is never at anyone's expense. It's a
play on words. I have a lot of George Carlin
in me, playing with words and stuff. I thought he
was an absolute genius.

Speaker 1 (01:33:35):
He was, by the way I get, you know, God
rest his soul. I could listen to George carl and
do all of his routines over again, almost daily because
he did.

Speaker 3 (01:33:46):
He did a spiel on airport terminology, which I know
you could. And the highlight of the entire thing is
when he said, and I gotta I gotta bleep myself.
You know how they tell you to get on the plane,
Get on the plane. Get on the plane. F you,

(01:34:08):
I'm getting in the plane. Then he said, and he said,
let Evil Knievel.

Speaker 1 (01:34:15):
Get on the plane. Yeah that's true. Yeah, that's very true.

Speaker 3 (01:34:20):
But it was I mean, it was jumbo shrimp and
all all the different things he came out with. And then,
you know, he turned around and did some other acting
later his career. He did some stuff with I think
Thomas the Train. I think he was he played like
mister conductor for them or something like that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:39):
He did, he did, and and you know that because
you have a daughter who probably watched it on television, right,
and I have two boys who watched it on television.

Speaker 3 (01:34:48):
Yeah, but I got to watch it. I got to
watch it too.

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
Yeah, well, of course we did.

Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:34:52):
Hey, you know, you know I consider you know us.
You know, we lived through the you know, the days
and the wars of watching Barney for God's sake, right know?
Marine you doing that right now? Are your kids into Barney?
Are you kidding?

Speaker 3 (01:35:04):
No? No, no, never, not really.

Speaker 1 (01:35:07):
It's bluey now.

Speaker 3 (01:35:10):
Like Alena Gomez lived with us. So yeah, right, you
know a lot of the Disney Channels stuff. But Carlin
he did a funny movie, car Wash, which was actually,
I think based on the song and then some people
remember this. He had a semi traumatic role in the
Prince of Tides with Nick Nolteen and Barber Strisan.

Speaker 1 (01:35:30):
Yeah you know what I had forgotten that, You're right? Yeah, absolutely, yeah,
absolute comedic genius.

Speaker 3 (01:35:37):
Yes, all based on wordplay.

Speaker 1 (01:35:39):
Yeah, all on wordplay.

Speaker 3 (01:35:41):
And I wonder if he, if he knows now, God
rest his soul. As you said that a couple of
the seven words you can't stay on TV. I think
the list is reduced now.

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
Yeah, it's probably down to about five now, right, just
because of the you know, just because of the standards
of change. And I don't know if we've progressed or regress.
I can't yet decide. I think we've probably done a
little of each right.

Speaker 3 (01:36:04):
Well, at least we're not grunting, you know, yeah that
although we were not far off sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
The one of the few times that I remember laughing
until I cried was his whole play on I can't
really say this delicately, so I probably shouldn't go there,
but it was his play his play on, uh going
to the bathroom? H Do you remember that one?

Speaker 3 (01:36:36):
No? I don't, And now I have to go dig
it out.

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
Yeah you're gonna Yeah, you're gonna have to go google that. Yeah,
go YouTube that one. Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:36:43):
My house when I was we you know, were selling
the HBO specials. When I was on the we had
we had class Plant the album that we played, and
we had a couple of Cheek and Shong albums that
we played. He's not here.

Speaker 1 (01:37:00):
Those guys, those guys are Those guys are in high
heaven now literally and figuratively right now because they're all
out there selling CBD gummies right.

Speaker 3 (01:37:07):
Oh my god, I mean talk about the Reaper. I
mean it's like, I mean, they're like, they're like the
Benny Jerry's cannabis.

Speaker 1 (01:37:18):
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly. Hey, how was Thanksgiving? I hope
it was good for you and your family.

Speaker 4 (01:37:25):
No, it was good.

Speaker 3 (01:37:26):
It was it was relaxing, it was, you know, much
better than it was for for me. Then it was
like the Lions and that and the Commanders.

Speaker 1 (01:37:34):
I was a little surprised by that, to be honest
with you, because they normally, they normally alter competitive on
their day and yet man, the Lions and the Packers
game stunned me.

Speaker 3 (01:37:46):
They've been playing with fire on defense and then when
you turn around and you know, people look at the
stat line a lot of times the quarterbacks, Oh I
mean Jerry Goff getting throw an interception. Yeah, but he
fumbled three times and he lost all three and one
of them turned into a touchdown. And as you well know,
the Lions defense has been playing with fire. They survived
the Chargers forty one thirty eight, They needed seventeen late

(01:38:09):
points to get past the Bears thirty one twenty six,
and now they give up twenty nine points. Albeit one
of them was a defensive touchdown. But that's a lot
of points to give up. And it was funny and
it you know, people like to talk about schedules and
who's this and who's that too. Then combine what happened
on Monday night in Minnesota and the Bears and the Packers.

(01:38:35):
Now the Bears are further back. Green Bay is now
on the heels of the Minnesota Vikings. Yeah so, but
you know, Detroit hasn't wrapped up anything yet. You know,
they have another game with Chicago. I think they have
a game with Dallas. They have two week Minnesota in
the final three weeks. So in the NFC, is this

(01:38:59):
will this will really surprise you, John, I think it will.
The NFC as a conference has five teams with winning records.

Speaker 1 (01:39:12):
Wait a second, five teams, just five, five.

Speaker 3 (01:39:15):
Teams of winning records, and unless Seattle does something dramatic
on Thursday night at Dallas, it's going to be four.
They're gonna be six and six if they lose. Wow,
you know, and listen, A lot of that is obviously
in their conference this year, with the AFC playing a
big hand in those losing record win non winning. Every

(01:39:39):
once in a while we see a team win the
division for the losing records. The NFC South is on
course to do it a second straight year.

Speaker 1 (01:39:47):
Hmm yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:39:53):
I mean this is the worst. I can't do it.
I was going to do like the Civil War thing,
the worst performance by the South. Okay, I can understand, Yeah, maybe, okay,
I can. I can say. Maybe the legal asks the
NFC South to succeed.

Speaker 1 (01:40:10):
Yeah, maybe, maybe maybe they should. Yeah, I know, right,
Oh goodness, all right, so let's let's uh, let's at
least we'll come back and hit the Patriots and Chargers
a little bit. But I know that in terms of
you know, teams trying to separate themselves from you know,
pretending to contending here over the last six weeks of

(01:40:32):
the regular season. This is a real grind for a
lot of the teams that consider themselves contenders, uh, because
they're all trying to work through, you know, the bumps,
the bruises, the aches, the pains, the attrition, next man up,
all that kind of stuff. And so this is where
they really do separate themselves. Right about this time of year,

(01:40:52):
everybody's by their bye week, you know, everybody's playing just
about every week, so I mean, and and you've got
a lot of divisional matchups that are soon to come
as well. And and so this, you know, this is
the teams that are equipped are usually the ones that
are ready to roll. And you've got geez, I think
the Thursday game this week, got Seattle playing at Dallas.
You know, the Cowboys are that, you know, the one

(01:41:14):
team that always seems to have the talent, youet, always
seems to manage to underachieve at the right moment. A
couple of games that I'm looking at right off the top.
On Sunday, you know, the Lions have to go out
on the road and prove themselves at the Saints. What
else am I looking at the Steelers just you know,
you know, had their come up into a little bit.
They've got to try to go back home and defend.
The Dolphins may or may not have the cakewalk everybody

(01:41:36):
thinks they have. Well, they have to go play at
Washington this week. How good are the improved Denver Broncos
and how really good are the Houston Texas? Both teams
are six and five. They got to face off against
each other. There's some intrigue this week that I think
we should know a little bit more about teams that
are true contenders, don't you think?

Speaker 3 (01:41:53):
Yeah, we gots In the case of Denver and Houston.
You have two teams to finish in last place last year.

Speaker 1 (01:41:59):
Right and and it didn't take them long to turn
it around and be six and five. And that's that's why.
That's another thing that I haven't had a chance to
mention today, Russell. But you know, Patriots fans, you know
the Patriots, believe it or not, I known things stink
on ice right now, that's my phrase. I love that one.
But at the same time, they may not be that
far away from turning it around. And all you have
to do is look at Denver and Houston.

Speaker 3 (01:42:20):
Well, and look at the league last year.

Speaker 1 (01:42:22):
Denver Houston also have quarterbacks too.

Speaker 3 (01:42:24):
Remember there were four teams last year that finished last
in twenty twenty one, and four of them of the
eight made the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:42:33):
Okay. Baltimore, I mean, you're not used to Baltimore finishing last,
but they did. The Giants finished last, came back down,
only made the playoffs, that won a playoff game. Jacksonville
was dead last for a couple of years, started four
and eight, and then won the division with a nine
and eight record. Yep, okay. So we see this now.

(01:42:58):
I don't want to say on a rateler basis okay,
but it's it's not all that unusual. And you know,
you look at the last place teams from a year ago, okay,
and how they're doing now. The Jets, you know, the

(01:43:19):
Aaron Rodgers thing is coustum dearly. Cleveland is seven and four, okay,
Houston is six and five, Denver is now six and five,
Washington is in three fall. As far as I'm concerned,
Chicago's improved its record. Atlanta was dead last. They are
technically in first place right now. Arizona, that's you know,

(01:43:40):
we knew that was going to be a disaster with
Kyler Murray being hurt and missing the beginning of the year,
and even with him back, they beat Atlanta. But they
you know, last week they got wowed by by the Rams.

Speaker 1 (01:43:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:43:52):
Yeah, more than your fair share of teams bouncing back
after last place finishes. And oh and by the way,
the team I left down are the Seahawks. The Seahawks
were last place in twenty twenty one John Davidy team's
division to not make the playoffs, and then last year

(01:44:13):
they came back and were a wild card. So you know,
things things can happen. In fact, go back to Jacksonville
for a second. So they went from last place to
four and eight to nine and eight to down twenty
seven to nothing in the playoff game and then winning
the playoff game.

Speaker 1 (01:44:29):
That's that's nuts. That didn't even sound like that's that's realistic.

Speaker 2 (01:44:33):
Does it?

Speaker 3 (01:44:33):
No? But that's I mean the year before, three last
place teams did it. And again, I know I say
this every show. That's why the consistency of the Patriots
for twenty years and the consistency of the Chiefs right
now is something that it to be admired, and you
may have to start throwing Philadelphia in there.

Speaker 1 (01:44:51):
Well you might, yeah, you might.

Speaker 3 (01:44:54):
There first time in almost ten years, twenty thirteen and
four team that they won these ten games back to
back years. Here's the real kicker. If the Eagles hold
on and win the NFC East, it's been almost like
twenty years since any team in that division was repeated.

Speaker 1 (01:45:14):
Wow, yeah, I think, yeah, I think I saw that
in a graphic somewhere where you led the team to four.

Speaker 3 (01:45:21):
Straight division titles from two thousand and one to two
thousand and four. Okay, no team in the NFC East
has won back to back.

Speaker 1 (01:45:28):
Titles since that since then, which is remarkable. Yes, that
is remarkable. And of course the Eagles got a big
test this we might be an NFC Championship preview. The
Niners go to Philly, right, yes they do.

Speaker 3 (01:45:39):
And we saw what happened last year and you know,
brought pretty to hurt. You know, the Niners seem like
they were kind of controlling the tempo of the game.
It didn't go their way. That wound up being a
very very lopsided score. And you know, Philly is Philly's
not blowing in anybody's doors off. Okay at all? Okay,

(01:46:05):
but they're winning the games they have to win. Last
week it was another classic case of resiliency. So you know,
having the route to the Buffalo, Buffalo scores in overtime,
they come down the field and win it. Here, this is,
to me is remarkable. The Dallas Cowboys have the biggest

(01:46:26):
point differential league this season fall so far there are
plus one sixty two.

Speaker 1 (01:46:33):
That's that's nuts. And they've lost three games.

Speaker 3 (01:46:37):
And they lost three games. Philly's point differential is plus
sixty four.

Speaker 1 (01:46:44):
Yep. Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:46:45):
The Niners point differential is plus one, but they're eight
and three. The Cowboys are aging three and Philly it's
kind of kind of one. Yeah, so not if they're
doing it a different way than they did a year ago.

Speaker 1 (01:47:01):
What does history, Russell? What does history say about teams
like that that actually have the larger margin of victory
as opposed to teams that tend to win closer games.
I mean, which side of the fence does history really
stand on? Which which type of team do you think
is being more successful in the long haul?

Speaker 3 (01:47:20):
Well, I think I don't know. If it's just listen,
the Giants, the twenty eleven Giants. Don't.

Speaker 7 (01:47:26):
Don't you mind doing this?

Speaker 3 (01:47:27):
They have a negative food differential for the regular season,
they finished nine and seven, and they win the Super Bowl. Okay,
more times than not, we have seen high scoring teams
get to the super Bowl and not win or not
even get to the super Bowl. So you see these
enormous point differentials, and you.

Speaker 6 (01:47:46):
Know you don't.

Speaker 3 (01:47:47):
You don't have to mind the Buffalo Bills. It's twenty nineteen. Okay.
All you have to do is c loose by one
and it can change things dramatically. I mean, remember the
Denver Here's actually probably a better example. The Denver Bronk
goes in twenty thirteen, members set a single season records

(01:48:08):
for points scored Caton Manning from fifty five touchdown passes
five four and seventy seven yards. Those still NFL record,
and all they did was lose the Super Bowl by
thirty five points. Right now, two years later, Peyton Manning
doesn't even play the whole season. Their defense is off

(01:48:30):
the charts. It's a totally different team. They struggle to
square points. Peyton came back, I think he with his
last breath in that Super Bowl, which he was relatively
ineffective in the second half, and they beat the highest
scoring team in the league that year, Carolina by two touchdowns.

Speaker 1 (01:48:49):
Wow, yeah, crazy, Yeah, it is crazy. Do you want Hey,
here's something else crazy. The Jets cleared Aaron Rodgers to
return to practice today.

Speaker 3 (01:49:01):
Well, I'll be curious. I guess they want to see
what he has and what he's gonna do, and they
I'll be curious to see if they actually wind up
activating him. They have now scored thirteen points or less
than five games in a row. In fact, you know,
but this is my I'll keeping an eye on the

(01:49:23):
Dolphins the next six weeks. Obviously, by the way, they
haven't won the division in two thousand and eight, right,
And every time you turn around, I mean, you know,
the other three teams in the division are doing their
damnest not to win any games, you know, Miami, Miami,
I'm sorry, Buffalo heartbreaker, Okay, after they had demolished the Jets,

(01:49:47):
New England's lost four in a row. The Jets have
lost four in a row. This is Miami's time to shine.
I know they've got some tricky ones down the stretch.
They got the rematch with Buffalo, they have Dallas to
play yet I think they've I think they have Baltimore
to play. M ya, I'm almost probabitive to play Baltimore.
I remember that game last year in Baltimore forty two

(01:50:10):
thirty eight, Uh, with Tua and Lamar Jackson then all
those receivers and stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:50:15):
So yeah, but it's it's.

Speaker 3 (01:50:20):
If Philly he feels like the best team.

Speaker 6 (01:50:24):
I think Dallas and.

Speaker 3 (01:50:25):
San Francisco at times are overpowering. But I also remember
the Niners lost three games in a row, and you know,
and and it's funny because you think about what Kyle
Shanahan has done after a slow start in San Francisco.
They've now gotten to the NFC title games three times

(01:50:45):
in four years. But they've gotten to one super Bowl
and blew a league.

Speaker 1 (01:50:51):
Yep, So what does that really mean?

Speaker 3 (01:50:54):
What does that really mean? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, listen to
people on occasion and stuff about overachieving, underachieving, overachieving and
so on. The Houston Oilers with Jerry Glanville and later
Jack Pardie, I know you'll remember them, late eighties, early nineties.

Speaker 1 (01:51:14):
I covered them.

Speaker 3 (01:51:15):
Yeah, yeah, seven years in a row they went to
the playoffs, and seven years in a row they didn't
even reach the AFC.

Speaker 1 (01:51:22):
Title game, right exactly. They were always they would always
fall short.

Speaker 3 (01:51:27):
Yeah, they blew the lead of all leads in Buffalo Buffalo. Yeah,
they finally got Kansas City and their own building and
we're up ten to nothing, and Joe Montana and Marcus
Allen pulled that game out. For all the builds of
the nineties, there's late seven oilers or late eighties early
nineties oilers where they were very right right and couldn't
get it and just couldn't get.

Speaker 1 (01:51:47):
It done right. Russell. The question that I really want
to ask you today has to do with, you know,
historical figures in the NFL, you know, having rather inglorious ends.
You know where I'm kind of going on with this.
We've seen coaches throughout history in the NFL who were
considered the greatest, who have ever coached this great game

(01:52:07):
that we all enjoy, that we all love, They've ended
their careers poorly. With one real exception. If you just
look at the numbers by itself, I come up with, well,
I guess if you're considering you know, Bill Belichick in
this group, if you're considering Tom Lander in this group,
you're considing Don Shul in this group, considering maybe Vince

(01:52:29):
Lombardi in this group, maybe George hallis in this group.
We're looking at, you know, this group of you know,
I would say a half a dozen or so coaches
of all time, right, and the one that seems to
have fared the most or the best, I guess out
of all this in terms of wins and losses probably
would be Shula, even though it wasn't really I mean
a smooth right off into the sunset for him. How

(01:52:50):
do you view that? And is is Shula really the
best of the bunch when it comes to considering how
things end? Or is this just an inevitability in the NFL? Well,
when it comes to the end of a coaching circle.

Speaker 3 (01:53:02):
Well, you know, Shula had competitive teams at least and
and I wrote a piece on this earlier this year.
This is almost unfathotable to think that the Miami Dolphins
last Super Bowl title came fifty years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:53:22):
Yeah, that's nuts, right, seventy two?

Speaker 3 (01:53:25):
Yeah, yeah, right, So Don Shula, Listen, he had competitive teams.
He made some AFC championship games, won some division titles.
Dan Marino had a big hand of that, and so on.

Speaker 1 (01:53:34):
But he didn't win a super Bowl.

Speaker 3 (01:53:36):
But he didn't. They got to the super Bowl in
eighty two, lost to Washington, got Super Bowl in eighty
four with a you know, one of the great years
of NY quarterback Marino, and got blown out thirty eight
to sixteen in Palo Alton. So it just shows you
got to have the complete picture. I mean, Shule is

(01:53:57):
probably a good example of that. You know, you think
about well, Vincent Barti, Vincel Bardi never had a losing season.
He went out on a mind note. He didn't have
you know, he won his the last two titles with
the Packers, then went to Washington eventually and.

Speaker 1 (01:54:14):
Didn't his didn't his health knock him out of the
of the the job in Washington initially, I believe so.

Speaker 3 (01:54:20):
And he wasn't with it with us much longer.

Speaker 1 (01:54:22):
After that, right, right, I know he died from canceror Chuck.

Speaker 3 (01:54:25):
Noll had some competitive team, Yeah, Chuck Noll I always
talked about. In fact a year the Steelers were way
for this. They lost their first two games ninety two
to ten. Wow. In nineteen eighty nine.

Speaker 1 (01:54:41):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:54:42):
And they bounced back and made the playoffs and went
to Houston and beat the Oilers in overtime in a
playoff game. Might have been the best coaching job if
you think about it. But he was gone after a
couple of years, so you know, it's hard to you know,
you didn't bring up this guy because he's now up
on the list and so on. But things looked rough

(01:55:04):
for him for a couple of years, and he has
been the greatst Andy Reid. Yeah, you know, last years
in Philadelphia weren't so great and they eventually got rid
of him. And now he's from Kansas City. He's made
it the playoffs every year but one. He's not had
a losing season, so he might be the super exception

(01:55:25):
to the rule. And so on. Chuck Knots, you know,
I'm throwing some other names out there, and so on.
You know, Chuck had success in his three stops, and
so on, Marty Schottenheimer. I'm thinking the guys who have
won like two hundred games and so on. So I mean,
Dan Reeves, you know, the funny thing is she just

(01:55:46):
don't see these long ten years anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:55:48):
No, you don't know, And I'm wondering, let's be.

Speaker 3 (01:55:51):
Honest, some Landry, the team became old and slow and
you know they you know, three and thirteen his last year,
remember he had he still holds the record as far
as consecutive winning seasons for twenty years in a row,
from sixty six to eighty five. But then again the

(01:56:13):
wheels that I think his last three years in the
league he didn't make the playoffs. So it is hard
because it's probably even harder to sustain success so when
it finally ends. But listen, I understand frustration and so on,
because you don't see too many twenty year runs and

(01:56:34):
had this many Super Bow Bowl appearances in this many
champions I mean for all of the Cowboys sixty six
to eighty five. Okay, twenty straight, you know, twenty straight
winning seasons. John, he only won two super Bowls over
that stretch.

Speaker 1 (01:56:50):
I know, doesn't sound like enough. Doesn't sound like enough
winning to me.

Speaker 3 (01:56:54):
They made their parents, mean the Patriots going to run
here where they've been to the super Bowl? You know
nine times? You want to stick so well, right, think
there's a big contract. I mean, there's being spoiled and
then there's being spoiled.

Speaker 1 (01:57:07):
Ye true, very true. All right, my brother, thank you
for thank you for the time today. I'm glad you
had a good holiday, and uh, you know what, We're
just gonna We're gonna take the rest of football with
open arms and try to enjoy it while we can
and and look forward to the future, because that's about
all you can really do right now in patriot Land.

Speaker 3 (01:57:25):
That's right. But I will say this, open arms mean mistackle.

Speaker 1 (01:57:31):
Yes it does.

Speaker 4 (01:57:32):
It is.

Speaker 1 (01:57:32):
And we know a little bit about that around here too.
Thank you, Russell. All right, talk to you soon. Talk
to you next week. Russell Baxter at Backs Football Guru
on X. Okay, I'm going to end the show today
with some emails they got sent in from a little
earlier about our question concerning Bill Belichick off the top
of the show, and it has to do with you know,

(01:57:54):
I asked, you know, do you keep him, do you
trade him? Or do you let him go? Really, you know,
pretty basic stuff, and i'd want to at least share,
you know, some of the issues.

Speaker 3 (01:58:05):
All of it.

Speaker 1 (01:58:05):
I'm gonna lead off here though, with this one from
Marvin in Kernersville, North Carolina, who says John George Carlin
was a true genius. His greatest comment, in my opinion,
was we will find a way to solve homelessness in
this country when somebody figures out how to get rich
doing it. That's one hundred percent right. By the way,
I can't tell you how many times I've used that quote.

(01:58:25):
It is just so true. ESPN is reporting Aaron Rodgers
is clear to start practicing again. There it goes our
third win of the season. In week eighteen, he said,
thanks for.

Speaker 3 (01:58:33):
All you do.

Speaker 1 (01:58:34):
Still wish you were three days a week like the
old days. Ah well, I appreciate that, Marvin, thank you,
But I had to get a real job. I don't
know else to say, you know, gotta get a real job,
you know sometimes that we have to do that. What
else do I have here?

Speaker 3 (01:58:51):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:58:51):
Okay, So this one comes from Keith, who says, I say,
keep Bill, but remove him as GM and let him coach.
Only just my opinion, you know, And I think I
think that would almost be unanimous as an answer, right,
if Bill would agree just to stay and coach and
not be the GM. Why wouldn't you want, you know,

(01:59:12):
arguably the greatest coach of all time still coaching your team,
even if he's a little bit you know, behind the times.
I don't know my issue with that particular thought process
is he won't accept that. I don't think he does.
I just he's not gonna give up GM. Why would he?
Why would he? He doesn't need any I mean, you know,

(01:59:33):
I think in theory, oh okay, Bi'll be coach. Ain't
gonna happen. He's gonna keep his job the way it is.
You know, he doesn't have to prove anything. It's nothing
to prove, zero to prove. I mean, if you could
get him to do it, and he'd agree to do it,
that's a win win, It's a win win. I just
I don't I don't think that happens. Patrick in Ottawa says, John,
trade him and if that doesn't work, let him go.

(01:59:56):
We need new blood and a new vision in the building.

Speaker 6 (02:00:00):
You know.

Speaker 1 (02:00:00):
And I actually, you know think that that is probably
more prevalent from most people than you really think. Antonio
Tony from Canada. Isn't it funny how things can change quickly?
Only a few years ago we were discussing whether it
was Bill or Brady that was most responsible for the
Patriots dynasty, and now we're talking about whether Bill will

(02:00:20):
be fired. My question is this, if the writing is
on the wall regarding Bill's exit, then, would it not
be in the team's own best interest to let Bill
go as soon as possible as we give our team
the opportunity to hire an interroom coach such as girod
Mail or Bill O'Brien assists whether we want to hire
a head coach within or outside of the organization. It
would also give the fans a cent that the Crafts
are taking control of the situation, rather than letting the

(02:00:43):
situation only get worse as we continue to lose each week. Lastly,
it would give Belichick a chance to step away from
the game and either take some time to assess the
future and either retire or get back into the NFL
with another team. What say you let Bill go and
change course now, or can continue to watch this ship sink? Well,

(02:01:03):
if it were up to me, Tony that I'm gonna,
you know, I'm gonna end with that one, because I
think that was the one that we really kind of
began the show with, and I think it's the it's
the ultimate you know, it's the eight ball question. It
really is, and I'm not sure that there's an inventative
answer for it. I think that we'll continue to get
closer to that answer over the course of the last
six weeks of the regular season here. But I don't

(02:01:25):
know that we can answer it. It were up to
me right now at this moment, if I determined that
Bill is not interested in doing anything but the way
that he has done things over the previous twenty two
years here, then I'd say you got to let him go.
I see the Crafts point of view. He's a marketable commodity.
I just don't know what you're gonna get, and I'm

(02:01:45):
not willing to take pennies on the dollar for the
greatest coach of all time. I'm not anything short of
a first round draft pick. No, I'm just not. And
I don't think the Patriots can get that for him.
I'll go on the record and say that right now.
I don't think they get it for him, because I
think most people understand all the Patriots are looking probably
to move on from him anyway, and I think that's

(02:02:05):
almost an insult. I really do.

Speaker 3 (02:02:08):
So.

Speaker 1 (02:02:08):
I think the best way to go for Bill and
for the Patriots is to cut bait and move on.
If you decide you're not going to keep him, okay,
I think you cut bait. I just don't see I
think in a perfect world, Yeah, I'd love to get
a one for him, wouldn't you, Like you know, Evan
said earlier. If you get like say, you know, the
Chargers pick the fifteenth pick of the first round, and
then you take the number three pick overall in the

(02:02:28):
fifteen and get yourself a quarterback and a wide receiver. Man,
you're in business again, right in theory. In theory, I
just I don't see that scenario unfolding, but I hope
I'm wrong. Okay, Thanksgiving is coming gone. With the winter
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(02:02:53):
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the official furniture store of the New England Patriots. All right,
I guess that will wrap it up for the day.
I appreciate your attention to the details. Thank you to
Fernando Ramirez from the West Coast to talk about the

(02:03:13):
Los Angeles Chargers Chris Mason from Mass Live, of course,
uh Russell Baxter, and Evan Lazarre for joining us in
the program. Marine. Thank you, Sir Urah for everything that
you do for us here on the show. Same Pat's time,
Same Pat's channel. Next Wednesday, as we step forward. You
know they got the Steelers on this schedule. It's a

(02:03:33):
Thursday night game. In theory, we'll be doing a show
on Wednesday. You haven't been told otherwise, we are, right, okay,
all right. I just wanted to make sure that we're
doing it the day before the game, so okay, all right, good.
So we will be back next Wednesday to talk about
the Thursday night game and another step forward or another
step closer to the inevitable, which will it be? Talk

(02:03:56):
to you next week.

Speaker 7 (02:04:00):
Thank you for downloading this podcast, Subscribe on Apple, google Play,
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